ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Reed acknowledges split

Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:12 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

From NBC’s Andrea Mitchell
Fresh from a meeting at the Pentagon this morning, Armed Services Committee member and West Point graduate Sen. Jack Reed acknowledged that Ambassador (and Retired General) Eikenberry's warnings are in conflict with Gen. McChrstyal's recommendations. 

In other words, the President's handpicked top military man in the war zone is now being contradicted by the president's top diplomat in the country. The two men, in fact, have disagreed in the past when McChrystal reported to Eikenberry. Clearly, say most experts, this is not a sustainable situation.

In an interview at the Newseum at a conference hosted by Bloomberg News, Reed said the fact that two experienced military men reached different conclusions makes the President's job difficult, because if Afghanistan (Karzai) can’t provide local governance, then our additional troop deployments won’t be decisive.

Eikenberry was the personal choice of Richard Holbrooke, special representative for the region, and is highly valued at the State Department.  The military is reportedly very unhappy that he is contradicting their recommendations -- in cables that have now gone public.

Senior officials indicate that the ambassador's post-election warnings about Karzai's ability to deliver -- and clean up corruption -- are playing into the president's request for more fine-tuning on the options.

Reed indicated that redeploying resources outside of Karzai's control to provincial leaders (war lords) is as important as deciding on overall troop levels.

Partial transcript follows:
ANDREA: AMBASSADOR EIKENBERRY- KARL EIKENBERY - RETIRED GENERAL, COMMANDER OF THE FORCES THERE HAS WRITTEN THESE CABLES ADVISING THE PRESIDENT THAT THERE IS NO REAL PROSPECT THAT PRESIDENT KARZAI AND THE AFGHAN TROOPS CAN RISE TO THIS. THAT THE PRESIDENT OF AFGHANISTAN WOULD NOT ALLOW THE KIND OF TRAINING AND GRADUAL TAKEOVER THAT WE WOULD NEED TO ENSURE THIS ISNT JUST A BOTTOMLESS PIT

REED: KARL IS A VERY TALENTED AND EXPERIENCED PERSON. HE COMMANDED OUR FORCES THERE FOR SEVERAL YEARS, HE LED TRAINING THERE- HE IS SOMEONE THAT I HAVE KNOWN FOR YEARS AND I RESPECT IMMENSELY. I THINK HE IS POINTING OUT WHAT THE PRESIDENT ALREADY UNDERSTOOD THAT A LARGE PART OF THESE OPERATIONS IS LOCAL GOVERNANCE (07) AND IF WE SUPPLY MORE TROOPS AND THEY DONT SUPPLY LOCAL GOVERNANCE THEN OUR EFFORTS WONT BE DECISIVE. IT MIGHT BUY SOME MORE TIME

EVEN IF PRESIDENT KARZAI WAS ENTHUSIASTIC ETC, THE REALITY IS BEYOND KABUL THERE IS VERY LITTLE GOVERNMENT CAPACITY ANYWHERE.
AND AS WE PURSUE PARTICULARLY THIS COUNTER-INSURGENCY PROGRAM WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO AT LEAST FOR A PERIOD OF TIME SORT OF PUT TOGETHER A SURROGATE OPERATION IN TERMS OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ETC.

ANDREA: IF YOU ACCEPT GENERAL- AMBASSADOR EIKENBERRY'S JUDGMENTS ON THIS WHICH WOULD LEAN TOWARD THE LOW END OF DEPLOYMENTS- YOU ARE REJECTING GENERAL MCCHRYSTAL'S COUNTERINSURGENCY PLAN.

REED: WELL I THINK WHAT YOU ARE DOING FIRST OF ALL IS RECOGNIZING HERE ARE TWO EXPERIENCED MILITARY OFFICERS DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THE HISTORY AND RECENT EXPERIENCE OF AFGHANISTAN EACH REACHING BASED UPON THEIR ANALYSIS- NOT DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED-

MITCHELL: BUT VERY DIFFERENT CONCLUSIONS?

REED: AND THIS IS WHAT MAKES THE PRESIDENT'S JOB VERY DIFFICULT. BECAUSE HE IS THE ONLY ONE AND HIS ADVISORS THAT HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION NOT JUST MILITARY STRATEGY TECHNIQUES BUT THIS ISSUE OF WILL THEIR BE AN EFFECTIVE AFGHANI GOVERNMENT? ITS VERY CHALLENGING AND THATS WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS WEIGHING NOW AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THIS CAREFUL DELIBERATION IS CRITICAL.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

Obama continues to look for excuses to go back on his statement that Afghanistan is the war we must win, and the excuses are endless. Obama doesn't like the Afghan elections, he doesn't like Karzai, his advisors have differing opinions, we have enough troops there already, he has too many plans to choose from, he doesn't have enough plans to chose from, he's late for a meeting, he wrote the answer down but the dog ate it, his arm hurts from golfing, he has to campaign for Corzine, he got stuck in traffic, Michelle yelled at him about something, it's the weekend - and that's Party Time, there's a fund raiser he has to go to, he lost his keys, he has date, it's too hot in Afghanistan, his Magic 8-Ball is broke, Pelosi wants to talk to him about something or other, his tee time was moved up. On and on it goes for this excuse machine of a President.
Its very simple...Nixon inherited Vietnam from Johnson, and ultimately, withdrew.  Obama should cut to the chase, and just start withdrawing our troops, and surrounding Afghanistan with nukes...
We should send more troops, without a clear plan and torture the POWs, while I hide in a secure undisclosed location.
This is literally sausage making,...I don't see any outcome that is beneficial for American interests; personally!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I allowed to make a crack about the Bush Institute?  I guess given his history calling it a library was too much of a stretch?  Speaking of stretches:

More FAUX News “Fair and Balanced” or as we say in our house, mythical unicorns:

http://mediamatters.org/research/200911110019

^^^^^^^^^^^^
MSierra, SF (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:21 AM)

Thanks for running with the obvious “joke” of the day!  I’m a huge fan, even if I don’t tell you often enough!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Tammy Walters, Modeso CA (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:28 AM)

I bet Oprah can spell C-H-I-C-A-G-O.  Your post was the dumbest today, and that is SAYING something.  
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Deboorah Greenlawn, NY (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:34 AM)

Not true!  I heard she has a heck of a ‘reach’ around!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Chuck, Northwestern Pa (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:28 PM)

But are they her own?  Or something she picked up after a quick ‘field dressing’?  Just askin’.  PS.  President Obama will be interviewed by Major Garrett, keep up – will ya’?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/11/obama-to-give-interview-t_n_354457.html
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Obama just needs to do what Cheney did everytime a general disagreed with him...fire him and put in more of a team player...

I am stunned by the constant whining on fake news channel about the president dithering on a decision in Afghanistan when the situation there is the result of the gunslingers in the bushleague administration who mismanaged the war after rushing into it.

And if only more of you tough talking chickenhawks joined up to go fight then maybe the decision to deploy 40,000 troops wouldn't be so hard to make eh fellas?
Richard, Washington State (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:15 PM): “the national debt grew during the Clinton Administration.”

Excellent post.
Well, no one has reported on the exact reason why General McChrystal’s need so many more troops.

Evidently, neither does President Obama - my point is if the General had a reasonable and sustainable plan that would yield positive results, then my take is his recommendation would be followed.

But - if all he wants is more troops to saturate the territory then that would only caused more casualties with the same end result.

So - thank you again President Obama for taken the time to make sure people just don't ask for something they may not really have a need - to have.

Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
Wow! How about that? Obama hired a military guru, McChrystal, to implement Obama's very own war strategy and policy, and instead of listening to the expert he hired, Obama now starts listening to the Ambassador he appointed to Afghanistan. So, just who's running the show in Afghanistan anyway? Not Obama, he can't make a decision save his life. It's Obama's job to choose a direction, not sit and wait for someone to tell him what to do. He is the President, has anyone bothered to tell him that fact? McChrystal is not in charge, he gave his best information to the POTUS, and the POTUS rejected all of his proposals. Eikenberry isn't in charge, he's a johhny-come-lately into the debate. So, no one is in charge, which sounds exactly like what the Obama administration is becoming.
Looks like the terrorists win again. They thrive on their enemies indecision.
It's a comedy of errors with the Obama crew. No one is in charge. No one is responsible. No one has a clue.
My final word on Grizzly Grama (at least for today :0)
______________

Until you become Governor, STFU! Stop hatin' on the woman because she is successful and good-looking on top of that.


IntheMiddle, TX (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:20 PM)
_____________

Governor my ass!  She QUIT!

And the only thing she's SUCCESSFUL at is riling up the rednecks!

It is humorous to see you're still voting with your little head!
Going public is not what our President tolerates very well. I thought McChrystal would have learned that by now.  Generals are used to getting what they want. Taking orders seems to be a new experience for McChrystal. Other news outlets report that McChrystal is "fuming mad". When you give into your emotions, you give up your intellect.

On this day in 1999 Glass-Steagall was basicall repealed by a senate vote 0f 90-8.

One Republican Senator, Richard C. Shelby of Alabama, voted against the legislation. He was joined by seven Democrats: Barbara Boxer of California, Richard H. Bryan of Nevada, Russell D. Feingold of Wisconsin, Tom Harkin of Iowa, Barbara A. Mikulski of Maryland, Mr. Dorgan and Mr. Wellstone.

Remember every other democratic and republican senator who is still in the senate voted for the repeal.

Throw the bums out...especially Menendez and Lautenburg.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/05/business/congress-passes-wide-ranging-bill-easing-bank-laws.html
Time for a beer summit.
McChrystal was a horrible choice from the get go!! This man supported the use of torture; why Obama selected him I'll never understand!! I hope President Obama brings the troops home from this winless war in Afghanistan!! And soon!!
LT Harding, California (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:22 PM)

Tell us how you really feel, and don't hold back now!! SHEESH!! I disagree with the president waiting and waiting; however, stop insulting him with comments a toddler would make!!

GROW UP!!
We should send more troops, without a clear plan and torture the POWs, while I hide in a secure undisclosed location.
Dick C. (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:24 PM)

I think DICK should go himself!!
The liberals keep telling us how smart Obama is, that he has a brain. That may or may not be true, because apparently if Barack does have a brain, it's not connected to anything.
Perhaps, in this situation, civilian minds will prevail in a war that appears to be headed in the same direction as Viet Nam.  It is not about the the military stupid.

This is not a conflict where military victory is possible let alone probable. We need to cut our losses and let Karzi swing from his own rope.
The military is reportedly very unhappy that he is contradicting their recommendations -- in cables that have now gone public.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Lawyers and spin-doctors running the war.
Sounds like Nam.
Nashville,

"Based on the results of the past 8 years, our brave troops should be THRILLED about this new, deliberative approach."

During the primary season the one candidate that recieved more contributions  from military members than all the others was Ron Paul.  He just wanted to bring everyone home.  

So to answer your three simple questions...don't finance it stop doing it.  The anti-war senitment is dwindling even the activist group Code Pink has  endorsed whatever Obama's strategy will be funny when I was DC in july '08 at Ron Paul's Revolution March Code Pinkers were there cheering us on while we were condemning Bush).  This tells me that there wasn't an anti-war groundswell during the Bush admin it was just pissed off Democrats and liberals who wanted seomthing to complain about, and both wars were easy fodder.  

Well now Obama is in a pickle he can't just do what is right and end the illegal wars.  He would get destroyed in 2012 if he did (he would also become the best President we've had since Ike if he did).  He's concerned with, well I don't even know, it seems like he's concerned with his image as president more so than making the right (albeit unpopular) decision.  Of course there is no way for me to know that for certain.  Others would say he is having his strings pulled by the bilderberg group...what is true is that he's done little to nothing for this country except further divide it.

Also Richard from Washington your posts on the debt are spot on and you articulated them better than I ever could.  

You can't save money without actually making an effort at saving money...
Nashville_fan (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:32 PM)

I agree the war in Afghanistan should have been "finished" long ago.  You keep bringing up the point about paying for the wars.  Guess what?  We are in them.  We HAVE to pay for them.  The solution to stop paying for them?  Pull the troops out.  Stop all action.  Period.  The Afghan war was(is) a war of necessity(not my words, Obama's).  It devolved quickly after that into a drawn out affair that was unsustainable...yet we are still there.  Its a terrible situation we were put in after being attacked on our soil.  We responded...then overstepped.  I think most people realize this.  

We pay for wars just like we pay for other entitlements...by borrowing.  Like the stimulus.  We borrow against the future Americans.  It sucks.  Its not efficient and hurts in the long run.  The solution?  Figure that out and you'll have done something no one has EVER done before(paying for wars that is).  So you might wanna kneel on that soap box instead of yelling from it.  The point you fail to get is not how we pay for them.  Its what they cost us.  The losses we have suffered in the last 8 years on both sides is pretty bad.  Should we pull out and stop "paying" for these wars?  Maybe, but thats a decision our commander-in-chief signed up for.  So everyday he asks for more options and every day he isn't satisfied we keep "paying".  Facts may be facts but the ultimate fact is that we can't pay for them in dollars, euros, yen, and most of all lives.

I'm not preaching to anyone..merely stating my opinions and welcome others.  Thats what debate is about right?
It's time to bring the troops home, Afganistan needs to get it's house in order and U.S. troops can't do that for them. What will be different if we stay 5,10,15 years? Nothing, except we will have buried more dead kids and spent trillions we dont't have.
It's time to bring the troops home, Afganistan needs to get it's house in order and U.S. troops can't do that for them. What will be different if we stay 5,10,15 years? Nothing, except we will have buried more dead kids and spent trillions we dont't have.
We should send more troops, without a clear plan and torture the POWs, while I hide in a secure undisclosed location.
Dick C. (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:24 PM)

------------------------------------

Lifted right from LBJ's playbook on Nam.

Nothing personal but we don't need to send nobody we should be using weapons of destruction not nukes but close to it  now  and that terrain is tough tough to even get 40 thousand in unless we are goingto be their 3 years and Russia is going to help yet Bin ladin is not their i say Somalia he running those pirates and stocking up if he is really still alive
Nothing personal but we don't need to send nobody we should be using weapons of destruction not nukes but close to it  now  and that terrain is tough tough to even get 40 thousand in unless we are goingto be their 3 years and Russia is going to help yet Bin ladin is not their i say Somalia he running those pirates and stocking up if he is really still alive
Nothing personal but we don't need to send nobody we should be using weapons of destruction not nukes but close to it  now  and that terrain is tough tough to even get 40 thousand in unless we are goingto be their 3 years and Russia is going to help yet Bin ladin is not their i say Somalia he running those pirates and stocking up if he is really still alive
The fact that so many of you of the conservative bent are in such a sweat to label this Major as a terrorist so that you can somehow count coup shows how assinine some of you have become.The fact of the matter is that he is active duty military and this incident occured on a military base.There is no jurisdictional question here he will be tried by the military under the UCMJ. They will be empowered by the court to follow all avenues of investigation and if that leads to additional charges of terrorism or the fact that he kicked a cat on his way over he will be charged with that too and guess what all of this will be read in to a public record and he will be tried and sentenced and that sentance will be carried out and it will all be out there for God and everyone to see.It won't be hidden in Guantanamo and the evidence won't be thrown out of court for improper handling and when it is all done you can use the conclusions in anyway you see fit but the main thing is that justice will be done and and it will be done in the way that everyone can see and appreciate not in some secret location so everybody can speculate about it and cover it up if it is inconvienent or doesn't fit somebodies narrative.The fact that you guys are using a tragedy for political loss or gain should be beneath you but apparently isn't. The only part of this that should interest everyone of both sides is seeing justice upheld in the finest tradition that we have all come to respect no matter where that road leads.
Obie = ATNA
"Words, just words"
Last night Seymour Herst (sp) said that the counterinsurgency strategy is Patreaus's.  I gathered that Patreaus was intrumental in the move to put McChrystal in place; that Patreaus, Odierno and McChrystal are all West Point, Eikenberry is Wm & Mary which he feels is important because WP graduates tend to be all about winning wars at all costs--his view, I have no idea.  Herst said the news last night about Eikenberry along with Obama's decision to reject all four plans means Obama is letting the military know he wants better options and a way out.  I agree. The generals kept telling Johnson to send more troops and we'll win Vietnam, and that failed miserably.  The opportunity to win and provide some resemblance to peace for the Afghan people evaporated when Bush/Cheney abandoned it for Iraq; we had succeeded in driving out Al Qaeda and the Taliban but we didn't finish the job.  You cannot fight a counterinsurgency UNLESS you have a willing partner in the citizens of that country.  With Biden saying fewer troops, Matthew Hoh and now Eikenberry emphasizing this, it tells me Pres Obama is looking for an exit strategy with some troops to stabilize the cities and we will probably withdraw from the mountain village areas; he's giving Karzai an ultimatum, and we will begin leaving carefully.

As I've said before, Iraq was a more modern country, more educated, it had an infrastructure; Afghanistan is tribal, uneducated, little infrastructure and an incredibly harsh and mountainous country.  Despite all of that, they are fierce fighters who repeatedly fight back against strong militaries and they never give up that fight.  We cannot win in Afghanistan, we can only hope to improve it slightly with troops,  leave and work from outside to help them help themselves.  

Saw the end of an interview with a writer, Meeks?, who was present at the Veteran's Day ceremony in Arlington.  On no news channels did I see (not necessary) or hear any comments that President Obama unexpectedly walked to the Afghanistan/Iraq section of the cemetary and visited the graves and visitors at those graves.  Meeks spoke about how emotional it was for him to see the President doing that, and  that the President came over to him and when he shook his hand, the Pres was somber and it was apparent to Meeks that the Pres was weighing heavily the price of the wars before going to meet with his generals later that day.  He said it meant a lot to see President Obama take the time to visit the graves of those who have been fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Wish I would have caught the entire segment.  This is what Americans need to see and hear about President Obama and not criticism about whether his Ft Hood speech was good, bad or so so.

REG in AZ.  Excellent post.  Houston, Kim Davis, Dennis Columbus, and several others--great points made.  



Pat huntington ny, I agree, but while we are leaving perhaps we should drop pig oil (where I come from it is called lard) all over the mountains?  Or just let a large group of pigs loose on those mountains - bet that would flush the talaban and alqada right out in the open - then we could turn around and blow up the right people.
I often wondered if the bush administration and cheney believed in torture, why they never did things like that?  To us we all know it is harmless, but for them it is the kiss of death (spritually speaking), that should even the score a little bit, don't ya think?
In an interview at the Newseum at a conference hosted by Bloomberg News, Reed said the fact that two experienced military men reached different conclusions makes the President's job difficult, because if Afghanistan (Karzai) can’t provide local governance, then our additional troop deployments won’t be decisive.

=================

That is not true, nor is that goal. The leaked McChrstyal report says nothing about Afghanistans ability to govern itself as being a goal. McChrstyal goal, based on the POTUS policy, is to severly impact the Taliban's and al-Qaeda's ability to organize and function as world terrorists. At no time does McChrstyal discuss the Afghanistans ability to sustain that effort.

Eikenberry is just throwing up red herrings and causing trouble.
On and on it goes for this excuse machine of a President.
LT Harding, California (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:22 PM)

I guess now we know why you never made it beyond LT.
Or did you in fact EVER serve your country?
Obama continues to look for excuses to go back on his statement that Afghanistan is the war we must win, and the excuses are endless. Obama doesn't like the Afghan elections, he doesn't like Karzai, his advisors have differing opinions, we have enough troops there already, he has too many plans to choose from, he doesn't have enough plans to chose from, he's late for a meeting, he wrote the answer down but the dog ate it, his arm hurts from golfing, he has to campaign for Corzine, he got stuck in traffic, Michelle yelled at him about something, it's the weekend - and that's Party Time, there's a fund raiser he has to go to, he lost his keys, he has date, it's too hot in Afghanistan, his Magic 8-Ball is broke, Pelosi wants to talk to him about something or other, his tee time was moved up. On and on it goes for this excuse machine of a President.

LT Harding, California (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:22 PM)

I take it that's all the excuses you use to skip work. you nuts ever say anything that makes sense?
LT Harding of California...or wherever...

You should write romance novels, you have a wonderful imagination.
Its very simple...Nixon inherited Vietnam from Johnson, and ultimately, withdrew.  Obama should cut to the chase, and just start withdrawing our troops, and surrounding Afghanistan with nukes...
pat huntington ny (Sent Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:23 PM)

But Pat, this is the just war that must be fought. Obama wouldn't dare break a campign promise would he?

Listening strictly to the generals as bush did has us stuck standing still in Afghanistan for how many years now?  Maybe the heeding and accepting the advice of others is a better option - after all, the business of the generals is war - even if theres no point or no win.  
The headline made it sould like "the war is lost" surrender monkey Harry Reid and the Dumbocratic party on health care.


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=2125741

First Read e-mail alerts


Sign up for First Read alerts
The first place for key political news and analysis

Syndicate This Site

Add First Read to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google