ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



First Thoughts: The lights go out...

Posted: Monday, November 16, 2009 11:18 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

Due to technical difficulties (a.k.a. a Washington Bureau power outage... as you'll read below), we were delayed in getting First Read out this morning. Thanks to our readers for your patience. Everything's not quite up to speed here (as of 12:50 p.m. ET). But we'll be doing our best to keep you updated on all your political news.

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Ali Weinberg
*** The lights go out in China (and in D.C.!): In a test of how much freedom the Chinese actually have, President Obama held a town hall earlier today in Shanghai. And it’s quite possible that more Americans -- in the middle of the night -- saw the town hall than Chinese did in the middle of their day. The reason: State Chinese TV aired only edited clips of the president’s town hall. That, however, didn’t stop Obama from (subtly) denouncing censorship. “I have a lot of critics in the United States who can say all kinds of things about me,” he said at the town hall. “I actually think that makes our democracy stronger, and it makes me a better leader.” Yet just as one of us was reporting on TODAY about censorship in China, the lights went out in our Washington bureau, causing our morning First Read note to come out a little later than usual this morning. It’s just a coincidence our power went out at that very time, we think… Obama today already has traveled from Shanghai to Beijing, where President Hu greeted him. Later tonight (Eastern time), Obama and Hu hold a bilateral and make statements to the press.

*** The emerging framework on Afghanistan? Also during his town hall, Obama mentioned -- definitively -- that al Qaeda was no longer in Afghanistan, but instead is in Pakistan. In addition, he said the United States’ job in Afghanistan is to “stabilize” the country. When you combine that with Hillary Clinton’s statement on “Meet the Press” (“We're going to expect more from the Afghan government going forward, and we've got some very specific asks that we will be making"), you get an idea of the administration’s framework on Afghanistan. They want to have a trigger that enables them to pull out on the Afghan government, if it doesn’t meet certain conditions.

*** Gitmo politics: First came the conservative furor at the Obama administration’s decision late last week to try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and others in federal court in New York. Now comes their reaction to the news that some Gitmo detainees might be housed at the Thomson Correctional Facility in Illinois, which Gov. Pat Quinn (D) and Sen. Dick Durbin (D) are expected to announce at 2:00 pm ET. Per NBC’s Edgar Zuniga Jr., Illinois GOP Reps. Donald Manzullo, Mark Kirk, and Peter Roskam will hold a press conference at 11:30 am ET to oppose any such transfer (despite all the other murderers, rapists, and child molesters who already populate the state’s prisons...).  

*** Deadline Fatigue? Speaking of Gitmo, White House adviser David Axelrod suggested on CNN yesterday that the U.S. might not meet the deadline to close that prison facility. “We believe we are going to substantially meet the deadline. We may not hit it on the date, but we will close Guantanamo. And we are making good progress toward doing that.” Just think of the other deadlines that the Obama administration has now missed -- on health care and Afghanistan. Missing these deadlines, separately, is understandable. But they are accumulating, and that can lead to a trend.

*** Palin-tology: Even with the president in China, with the Gitmo news, with Afghanistan, with the state of the U.S. economy, and with one of the biggest legislative fights in memory (over health care), the story that's been mesmerizing the political world over the past few days is ... Sarah Palin. This is a testament to her political strength (the buzz and curiosity that surround her) and her political weakness (that she remains a deeply polarizing figure, even within her own party). Indeed, in last month's NBC/WSJ poll, 52% of Republicans had a positive opinion about Palin, compared with 28% of independents and 9% of Democrats who said that. As GOP political consultant Mike Murphy, who isn’t a Palin fan, told First Read: “She is polarizing within the GOP and totally unpopular outside the party. And that is not a recipe to get into the White House.” Palin’s interview with Oprah airs today. Her book officially hits the stores tomorrow. And she begins her book tour on Wednesday.

*** Like sands through an hourglass…: NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports that John McCain has specifically asked his former aides not to do interviews rebutting Palin's charges in her book -- to avoid escalating the feud between her and the campaign staff. Most are complying with his wishes, hoping it will die down. But in a conversation with Mitchell last night, one key player targeted by Palin in the book points to emails on Huffington Post that contradict Palin's version of several instances. The former McCain campaign aide, who asked not to be named, told Mitchell: "It is unrecognizable at every instance. There is not one truthful account as it relates to any conversation I ever had with her." Regarding the accusation that the campaign tried to hire a nutritionist to make her eat, two former aides said that the campaign was getting media calls and calls from higher-ups on the plane that Palin wasn't eating enough and had lost too much weight. There was concern about her health and stamina heading into the vice presidential debate.

*** The Young and The Restless: In addition, former McCain (and Bush White House aide) Nicolle Wallace tells Mitchell that the conversations Palin recounts in her book involving the Katie Couric interview, Palin's campaign wardrobe, or any of the other allegations involving Wallace never happened. "I never saw her take a note and she never contacted me for any fact-checking, nor did anyone on her behalf." Wallace says, "It's just fabricated." She adds that the same campaign staff whom Palin disparages in her book as idiots prepared Palin for a hugely successful convention speech and initial rollout, a good initial interview with Charlie Gibson, and a passable debate performance.

*** Taking on the Stupak Amendment: Turning to health care, the debate over abortion continues. At 10:15 am ET, the Center for Reproductive Rights will hold a press conference at the National Press Club to unveil a TV ad criticizing the anti-abortion Stupak amendment that was added to the House health-care bill.

*** Get out of my dreams … and into my car: Finally, Republicans are pouncing on this news today: While saying it’s making progress, GM reported losing $1.2 billion in the 3rd Q. “Today’s release of General Motors’ financial results is further proof that President Obama’s economic experiments are wrong for America,” RNC Chairman Michael Steele said in a statement. “Sadly, GM has not only failed to turn a profit since the president poured $50 billion of the taxpayers’ dollars into GM’s bankruptcy restructuring, but it has actually lost $1.2 billion.” That said, GM “will accelerate its repayment of bailout funds to the U.S. government, the automaker announced on Monday morning,” The Hill writes. “The company will pay back its outstanding $6.7 billion in debt to the government in quarterly installments, allowing it to finish repaying its loans four years earlier than had been required.” 
 
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Countdown to Election Day 2010: 351 days

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Comments

Palin's favor ability has moved little even as the president has slipped back to reality. And her behavior has continued to be completely removed from what Americans want and expect from presidential candidates.

She had better think about a long-term TV or book career, because she will never be president...

http://www.political-buzz.com/
Politicizing a Tragedy:

Major Hasan has yet to be tried by a military court, but there is no doubt that he is the shooter who killed US service men and women at Fort Hood.  Appropriately, the military will do an investigation to determine the motive behind Maj. Hasan’s actions.  Military police has access to computer emails, on-line activity, lphone call activity; and since the major is still alive, we will learn from him something about his motives.

Sure, he can lie and it is difficult to discern the motives of a single individual.  But when a group of people, like right-wing conservatives, continue to call Hasan a “terrorist”, I begin to wonder about their motives.  Why is it so important to conservatives that Hasan be a “terrorist:? Is it because he is a Muslim?  Is it because he engaged in a heinous act of mass murder?  Why?

It’s easier to discern the motives of a group of people with similar value.  Most conservatives hate it when reminded that 9/11 happened on Bush’s watch. People like Dick Cheney, Rush Limbaugh, etc. want our President to fail (they’ve said so) and are willing to see America take a hit. It is important for them to say there was a terrorist attack on Obama’s watch also. Yes, it is sick justification!!  It is shameful!

The only plausible explanation why conservatives are hell-bent in believing Hasan is a terrorist is to seek political gain.  They continue to politicize this tragedy.

Bowing to the Emperor:

Yes, I saw the bow.  It was a deep bow.  It was also protocol.  There are times when protocol and respect trumps arrogance and ignorance.  To say that an American President should bow to no one is arrogant and ignorant. To follow the customs of another country demonstrates wisdom and civility.

In my lifetime when the POTUS was on foreign soil, all Americans would stand behind our President.  As Republicans criticize President Obama for following protocol, this becomes another example of disrespect and contempt from the Party of “No”.

Jody: Your Hawks never quit.  They have heart to come back after being 14 points down. I’m impressed with their character.  You have every reason to be proud.

Pat: This morning there are a lot of sleep deprived, happy Hoosiers.  I imagine the Boston sports writers are giving Belichick a ration of free grief. We will meet again in January, but hopefully not on the frozen tundra of New England. The game exceeded the hype and my expectations.
The Wasilla Hillbilly officially ‘kicks’ off her ‘V’ tour!  Although I’m not sure if the ‘V’ stands for vendetta or victim!

Klondike Barbie (hiding behind her Facebook page as usual) is lashing out at the A/P for fact checking her so-called book! Dang! Those pesky little facts!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/16/palin-accuses-ap-of-doing_n_358832.html

Why is it always someone else’s fault with this twit?? What does she do other than lash out, blame & incite hate?

I told my husband over the weekend that if by some twist of fate this ignorant silly piece of white trash EVER manages to ‘sleep’ her way to the WH… I am SO out of here!

The party of pale male & stale find hers ‘hot’… I on the other hand find any woman who is SERIOUS about holding a national office in politics posing for a ‘cheesecake pin-up’ cover both disturbing and disgusting!  This trailer park ‘grama’ has set the woman’s movement back 50 years!!!

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2394382/the_sarah_palin_newsweek_cover.html

Yeah!  Like anyone with an IQ higher than a turnip will take this nitwit seriously!!!

Ps:  Ron/Pat…Heck of a game!  As da Bears didn’t ‘play’ (and I use that term loosely)
It was kinda nice to have my Sunday afternoon back!
From last week:

Lee, Earth: '...Levi is simply not a good person.  Palin is a good person, regardless of what you think of her politics...'

Palin is a ‘good’ person who abused her Gubernatorial power to try and get her ex-Brother-in-law fired from the Alaska State Police

Palin is a ‘good’ person who got the Tax Payers of Alaska to reimburse her for staying at her own home and eating her own food

Palin is a ‘good’ person who billed Alaska Tax Payers for travel expenses for her own children when they had no official duties and weren't entitled to freebies

Sarah is a ‘good’ person who demagouges 'Death Panels' even though she knows it's a false charge and a complete lie

Palin is a ‘good’ person who plays upon the fears and ignorance and hatreds of the ignorant 'low information' voters she's attempting to appeal to


In the words of Catbert, the evil HR Director: ‘Right and wrong depend on how many witnesses there are’


‘…when Palin was Mayor of her home town of Wasilla, AK in 2002, she was influental in the construction of the Wasilla Sports Complex and hockey arena. First of all, the $12mil+ project ended up in the hands of contractors who were friends of friends of Palin. Secondly, at around the same time the sports complex was being built, so was Palin’s new house. What’s interesting about that is the house is constructed from the exact same materials the sports complex was built with. The windows in both structures are the same, the wood is the same, pretty well everything.

When the house was being built, Palin, being Mayor at the time, influenced the bylaw requiring building permits in the town so that now there is no official list of the contractors who worked on her house….’

But Sarah Palin is a ‘Good’ person…..
The Bengals kicked Pittsburg all over the field.
Now the're 7-2.
New England sucks and so do the Bears.

And the lights all went out in Massechusettes .....

even the Bee Gees didn't get it right.

When Kennedy died the lights stayed on.

Only HIS light went out.
Hay REPUBLICANS WHAT ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF??????We have some of the toughest law breakers in the world.already in our prison system,have brought many terrorist to trial In NY already.So would you knee knocker types quit with all the fake concerns.See if you Republicans hadn;t invented a OIL war,so Dead eye and all of Bushs war monger buddys could't get rich on the backs of American soldiers.Never seen such a bunch of Sissys.Bohner,McCain,Steel,all afraid of there own shadow,but they sure have the press following them around like this is a real story.

Me: (Sent Friday, November 13, 2009 9:38 AM): "Just because people counter your arguments with facts that you cannot refute..."

Bill Fairfax, VA. "Hmmm, interesting concept.  Just which one of my arguments have YOU refuted with so-called facts?  Just askin'."
--------------------------------------------------

How about this one: You could use the same standards of “terrorism” you’re so eager to apply to the Fort Hood tragedy to the Christian terrorist attacks on a Unitarian Church last year and the killing of abortion providers. It’s a fact that there is no difference other than the particular brand of religious extremism. Since you can’t refute that fact, you just ignored it. Or you could reply with another obscenity like the one you wrote last Tuesday and hope it gets by the censors.
Ron, Indiana - to the victor go the spoils.  What a game,...!

and from all of the Palinpalooza crap:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/13/palins-book-goes-rogue-on_n_357682.html

Those pesky little facts.  Darn it all!  I wonder if A Million Little Pieces is MORE accurate than Going Rogue?

How sad that I find a drug addicts account more meaningful than the Wasilla wannabe?
Per NBC’s Edgar Zuniga Jr., Illinois GOP Reps. Donald Manzullo, Mark Kirk, and Peter Roskam will hold a press conference at 11:30 am ET to oppose any such transfer (despite all the other murderers, rapists, and child molesters who already populate the state’s prisons...).

what is it with republicans and their lack of courage? they didn't want to fight in the war on terror, they didn't want to be taxed to pay for the war on terror and now they don't want the big bad terrorists anywhere near them...such bravery...not
More stuff from last Friday on Bush ignoring terrorist attack warnings before 9/11:
-----------------
Keg, AL: "Please show your ignorance more by saying 9/11 could have been adverted had President Bush paid more attention to intelligence."


US airport security should have been put on high alert after the Bush administration was explicitly warned that a terrorist attack was “imminent” which was the exact wording used by the White House terrorism expert, Richard Clarke prior to the attacks. But Bush did nothing. Please show us your ignorance by denying this fact.


Keg blathers on: “That is exactly the same thing as saying President Clinton could
have stopped 9/11 since he had basically the same intelligence.”

I’ve heard a lot of stupid excuses from Bush apologists for his dereliction of duty, but that’s the stupidest one yet. Clinton had no authority to put the airports on high alert as he was NOT PRESIDENT AT the TIME.  The outgoing Clinton people did warn Bush that he should make terrorism his highest priority, but he didn’t. He was too busy vacationing.

Keg: “Intelligence is pretty much an synonym with speculation in the "intel world".  There is a ton of it and some turns out credible.“

The memo Bush got that was entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike Inside the US” was not speculation. It was one of many warnings he ignored in the months leading up to 9/11.

If President Obama had ignored a warning that there was an Army psychiatrist named Hasan who was a danger to his fellow soldiers at Fort Hood, you can bet the rightwingers would use it to pin the blame for the attack on Obama, and they would be right in doing so. Of course, they’re trying to blame him anyway, as someone who writes to this forum predicted they would right after the Fort Hood incident.

***************************************
From Jody, Iowa (Sent Friday, November 13, 2009 11:06 AM) "Bush may not have taken Clinton's warnings or the daily briefing as seriously as he should have but the method of hyjacking airplanes to fly into buildings on 9/11 seemed unrealistic to everyone. "
========================================
Actually that is not correct. It was considered a very real threat because a plot to fly an airliner into the Eiffel Tower was thwarted during the 1990s (thanks to the competent leadership of those Frenchies that the far-right loved to slime for not jumping into the Iraq quagmire with Bush. There was yet another thwarted plot to fly an airplane into a summit meeting in Italy a meeting that Bush was attending, ironically enough.
It’s true that the memo “Bin Laden Determined to Strike inside the US” assumed the attack would be in the form of a plane hijacking, but putting airport security on high alert for hijackings would obviously have had a good chance of catching the 9/11 terrorists who did, after all, hijack the planes before they crashed them into the World Trade Center.  So even if Bush didn’t know about these attempted airplane attacks personally, he SHOULD have known that there was a serious threat involving aircraft because that’s exactly what the August memo said.
One third of the "first thoughts" articles are about Sarah Palin, Why?

So, only "conservatives" are upset about KSM being tried in criminal court in Manhattan? That is news...

We await a decision on Afghanistan...and wait, and wait...
Drug makers hump prices after cutting deal with administration
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/business/16drugprices.html?ref=todayspaper

"By JONATHAN WEISMAN

SHANGHAI -- President Barack Obama arrived here late Sunday to press China on issues from climate change to economic restructuring, amid rising concerns that his first swing through Asia as president will yield more disappointment than progress on trade, human rights, national security and environmental concerns."

"On Sunday, leaders of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum dropped efforts to reach a binding international climate-change agreement in Copenhagen next month, settling instead for what they called a political framework for future negotiations."

"he U.S. and Russia now appear unlikely to complete a nuclear arms reduction accord by Dec. 5, when the current Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty expires. Mr. Obama met for closed-door consultations with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, but National Security Council Russia specialist Michael McFaul said major issues remain, and the two countries are working out a "bridging agreement" to extend previous arms-ratification rules."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125827619829149095.html?mod=article-outset-box  
When will the Obie administration start treating terrorists like terrorists and not Rolex thieves?

Obie said he's been to all 50 states now. Doesn't he have 7 more to go. Oh yes, he was referring to all 57 "Muslim" countries.

Can't wait for the December "Jobs Summit"!

I am sure it will put an end to the massive unemployment in this country just like the "Beer Summit" ended all racial tension and prejudice.

How about an H1N1 picnic in the spring? So far over 4,000 have died from influenza, by Spring it will be a nice even 10,000, making Baracks phony concern seem more important.
The president is Obama Hussein Obama and he's doing a pathetic job within the USA.

But you jerks still want to talk Bush.
Crawl back into your hole where Obie's cabinet hides at night.
Hi Ron & Feisty: It was a very entertaining game. Anyone who dare treads into my boss's office is getting an earful about Belichick. Even with his door closed, my oh my. He was just at my desk ranting and raving a few minutes ago. I always love listening to him. He gets beyond FURIOUS.

I didn't have the heart to tell him that I was a little upset as well as I was just been informed that my painter painted the wrong room in my house this morning. A room my son had just painted one week ago a beautiful green/blue that I absolutely loved. Now it's a creamy yellow. The stain on my new bathroom door is about 5 shades off from the rest of the woodwork in the area. lol.

Carpet is a week late as well. Ah the jobs of remodeling.

Good job by Peyton and Colts. I needn't have to tell you the reaction from the fans in the sports bar across the street from my house as they exited the bar. Slammed cars doors all the way down the street.


There is no difference between the tone of the contributors on the right or the left here. There is no deviation from the party line from either camp. There is little independent thought from those who ridicule their opposites... disagree with any administration policy and be labeled a right winger, support any part of the administration's agenda and be labeled a bleeding heart liberal.

Ahh, that explains the slow FR threads this morning--a Chinese power outage conspiracy.

Afghanistan, I'm not sure there is a solution.  I've said before that the cost plus where do we find another 40,000 troops must play a part in the decision.  Let's face it, no matter what President Obama does, there will be the critics yelling he's wrong.  My hope is that Pres Obama heads toward the exit.  One thing I know, with every page of "Ghost Wars", it becomes apparent that Pres Reagan and his CIA director in their zealousness to bring down the USSR, created a monster for which the US has paid and will continue to pay a high price.  Those decisions never considered the political shift of Islamic beliefs into radical ones and what the impact of empowering them with weapons and money would have on the future of the region.  

When I returned to Iowa in late 94, there was constant talk about the new Thompson Correction Facility and today, it still sits empty.  It is hypocritical to think that the USA cannot safely lock up terrorists along with the mass murderers.  What are we afraid of?  The US is already a target and putting them in prison will not make us more of one.  Terrorists are criminals and thugs, we need to stop giving them "glory" and elevating their status to the equivalent of a Nation at war with us.  They are not a Nation, they are extremists and criminals.  It's time we treat them as such.

Ron.  Your Colts came through for you!  Exciting game to watch because until the game was over, it was up for grabs.  The Hawkeyes gave Ohio State a run for their money with a 19-year old backup quarterback and various other backup players--that missed FG in the first half cost an outright win for the Hawks.  
There sure is a lot of anger here...
Ron Indiana (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 11:27 AM): “The only plausible explanation why conservatives are hell-bent in believing Hasan is a terrorist is to seek political gain.  They continue to politicize this tragedy.”

Not so fast my friend, that’s just left wing spin. Another plausible explanation is confronting the truth:

Fact: Nidal Hasan gave a pro-jihadist slide show presentation to his fellow physicians at Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

Fact: Hasan used business cards which displayed the abbreviation ‘SoA’ which stands for Soldier of Allah.

Fact: Hasan exchanged email communications with a known radical Islamic cleric with ties to al-Qaida.

Fact: Hasan shouted ‘Allahu Akbar’ before gunning down defenseless soldiers.

Today, the Washington Post has a story on an interview with Anwar al-Aulaqi who is the radical cleric Hasan communicated with. Here’s a couple of quotes:

“Explaining why he wrote on his Web site that Hasan was a ‘hero,’…Aulaqi said: ‘I blessed the act because it was against a military target. And the soldiers who were killed were not normal soldiers, but those who were trained and prepared to go to Afghanistan and Iraq.’

"Fighting against the US army is an Islamic duty today," Aulaqi allegedly wrote on his Web site after Hasan's ties to him were reported after the shootings. "The only way a Muslim could Islamically justify serving as a soldier in the US army is if his intention is to follow the footsteps of men like Nidal."

“Aulaqi said Hasan's alleged shooting spree was allowed under Islam because it was a form of jihad. There are some people in the United States who said this shooting has nothing to do with Islam, that it was not permissible under Islam," he said. "But I would say it is permissible…. America was the one who first brought the battle to Muslim countries."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/15/AR2009111503160.html?hpid=topnews

At the very least, there’s lots of dots here that can be reasonably connected to suggest that Hasan was a terrorist.  Therefore, it would be just as easy for me to say that those who deny the terrorist case are politically motivated because it would be politically damaging for the administration to acknowledge a terrorist act was committed on U.S. soil.

But we’re all big boys and girls with minds of our own, so who cares what you or I or anyone else thinks about this case.  Here’s a link to the statutory definition or terrorism.  Folks can take a look at that in the context of what we know about the case and decide for themselves.  

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/113B/2331
Say- isn't it abut time for some doofus to say "boy, look at how afraid the lefties are of Palin"?
Got news for you, doofus, wherever you are:
We are not afraid of HER.  We are afraid of the mindless people that follow her and hang on her every word.  Just like Glen Beck.  The guy's a completely harmless candy-a** himself.  It's the brain-dead people that think he's got a valid view on anything that scares us.
Should scare you, too.
I'll admit to not following the decision to try the 9/11 terrorists in federal court, so these questions may have already been answered.  But, here is what I would like to know:

1.  If there was some sort of technicality that resulted in throwing out large amounts of evidence, and thus allowing for a dismissal of the case, what would happen to the terrorists?

2.  If the lawyers for the terrorists request sensitive or confidential information that could be damaging to US security or troop security, what sort of safeguards will be in place to prevent this information from being leaked?

3.  What kind of security measures will be in place in New York during the trial?  It would seem to be a tempting target.

I think answering those questions would go a long way towards easing the concerns of most Americans.
Bowing to the Emperor:

Yes, I saw the bow.  It was a deep bow.  It was also protocol.  There are times when protocol and respect trumps arrogance and ignorance.  To say that an American President should bow to no one is arrogant and ignorant. To follow the customs of another country demonstrates wisdom and civility.

***********
That's a fine explanation, Ron; however, why don't we ever see them bow back?
Rick, NC: what is it with republicans and their lack of courage? they didn't want to fight in the war on terror, they didn't want to be taxed to pay for the war on terror and now they don't want the big bad terrorists anywhere near them...such bravery...not
---------------------------------------------

You noticed, too, huh? The "courageous" Republicans say we cannot put terrorists on trial in the United States for fear that their terrorist friends will get angry and attack us. One of the many things lacking in the Republican mindset is a sense of irony.
Stupak-Pitts.  Why should the Catholic Bishops be allowed so much clout in dictating legislation in a country that has a constitution separating church and state?  It shouldn't.  It was the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic fraternal organization, that succeeded in adding the words "under God" to the Pledge of Alligiance in 1954.  I don't object to the change to the Pledge because it is just words but I do object to the fact that religious groups increasingly step on the Constitution and on the rights of those who do not have the same beliefs.  If the United States is to continue being an all-encompassing country, religion must return to a personal level and stay out of politics.
Just like Glen Beck.  The guy's a completely harmless candy-a** himself.  It's the brain-dead people that think he's got a valid view on anything that scares us.
Should scare you, too.

Buzz (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 12:04 PM)
_____________

You betcha Buzz... how about this Quote from Oxy-addict Limpballs:

'but Limbaugh calls Going Rogue "one of the most substantive policy books I’ve read'

http://www.thedailybeast.com/video/item/rush-limbaugh-praises-sarah-palins-book

No DOUBT the drugster is USING again!!!

Like I was saying about IQ's < than turnips... lol lol
_____________

Pat,

Sorry to hear about your remodeling nightmare(s)My experience with home repairs is... it's ALWAYS something!  Good Luck & Hang in there... the finished product is always worth the aggrevation :0)
But we’re all big boys and girls with minds of our own, so who cares what you or I or anyone else thinks about this case.  Here’s a link to the statutory definition or terrorism.  Folks can take a look at that in the context of what we know about the case and decide for themselves.  

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/113B/2331

Bill, Fairfax, VA (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 12:00 PM)

Bill what's the difference wither he's called a terrorist or a criminal if he's given the death penalty? Other than it gives you neo-cons something to try and scare people about.
Clara Kansas City; Thanks for the shout out. Put on your snarky hat and give those wing-nuts some "free grief".

Bill: Thought I would hear from you today. We are not going to change each other's mind. But it is fun to prod you a bit.  

BTW, Those Ravens are now in the Colts sight. I'm told that Ravens are simply large Crows.  Be careful so you don't have to eat much...crow.
Jody from Iowa...I always like reading your posts. Today's post on the terrorist hit the nail on the head. Why should we be so afraid of detaining them in our prisons? And why should we elevate their status? You're right, they are just thugs and criminals.
Once again, petty politics returns, well it never really left but does go from reasonable to ignorant.  Bickering over a bow show ignorance.  So what if Pres Obama bows in Japan?  The Japanese bow to each other to show respect.  It has nothing to do with anything except that.  
Yes, I saw the bow.  It was a deep bow.  It was also protocol.  There are times when protocol and respect trumps arrogance and ignorance.  To say that an American President should bow to no one is arrogant and ignorant. To follow the customs of another country demonstrates wisdom and civility.

***********
That's a fine explanation, Ron; however, why don't we ever see them bow back?

here a bow, there a bow, everywhere a bow bow (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 12:12 PM)

I was watching when President Obama bowed, I said at the time this will drive the neo-con nuts crazy. They didn't disappoint.
Houston (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 11:43 AM)

Haha what an amazing world you must live in where every piece of intelligence is right and everyone has the ability to see into the future.  Do you know how many reports per week heads of the intelligence community get?  How many of those are passed to the President?  Its probably too many to count.  They do the best they can and make the best decisions they can.  You sit here on your high horse talking about how it was SOOOOO OBVIOUS that terrorist were going to attack and it wasn't impossible to think they could hijack 4 at the same time and cause unspeakable harm to us.

Seriously whatever world you live in where everything is black and white and everyone makes the right call every time must be a room with padded walls.  Its not possible.  The only person to blame ultimately were the people who carried out these horrible things.  Bringing politcs into a national tragedy and act of terrorism is something a sad sad person does.  You sir, are a sad person.

P.S. I've never said anything on the Ft. Hood tragedy and blaming President Obama.  Unlike you, I choose to leave acts of insanity and horrible tragedies as just that.
See if you Republicans hadn;t invented a OIL war,so Dead eye and all of Bushs war monger buddys could't get rich on the backs of American soldiers.
Havahank,Crybabyville,AZ (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 11:38
--------------------------------------------------

Better for Americans to die in Democrat-justified wars like Korea and Viet Nam where AMERICAN interests were at stake.

If we don’t stop Ho Chi Minh, all of Southeast Asia and the South Pacific may fall to Communism.
Americans Killed- Over 58,000
Americans Wounded- Over 305,000

Cheap patio furniture and textile items for sale, made in Viet Nam and sold at WalMart (where Hillary had a Board of Directors seat)- Priceless
Ah forget it he is not Palin and he is not going to quit so go ahead and whine all you want yet some of his oppositon should support him halfway for no -other Democratice President had this many American's not nobody else saying what ever about him is he that scary? If so why did thess other President who took us to war not scare you one bit.
Ah forget it he is not Palin and he is not going to quit so go ahead and whine all you want yet some of his oppositon should support him halfway for no -other Democratice President had this many American's not nobody else saying what ever about him is he that scary? If so why did thess other President who took us to war not scare you one bit.
I watched most of MTP yesterday, skipping the Guilliani fake rage.  Enjoyed it when Newt Gingrich took David Gregory to task during the education discussion when Gregory tried to drag the teachers' unions into the debate by flat out telling him that education is NOT a political issue.  Although I don't agree with Gingrich on many things, he was right and succeeded in killing Gregory's efforts to play the democrats vs teachers' unions as definining Arne Duncan's efforts as Sec of Education.  Savor the moment of DG's mouth drop of disappointment.
Headline: "Obama Connects Asian Trip to Economy"

I bet he does. Where do you think the money is coming from to pay for all of Obama's deficit spending?
Just like with "Global Warming", just like with Gitmo, just like with Afghanistan, just like with Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and just like with Health Care Reform, when the rubber hits the road for Obama, Obama backs off. They used to call George Bush I a "Wimp". Obama has George the First beat on the "Wimp" front hands down in that regard.
Busy week for the Obama administration. They have to figure out how to surrender in Afghanistan, move the terrorists from Gitmo to the their new targets, ehh, new prison in Illinois, back out of the now dead health care legislation, cover up the terrorist attack in Ft. Hood with endless Congressional hearings, and walk away from any and all "Climate change" legislation they promised. All that, and they have to hope Obama quits bowing to foreign dictators.
Missing these deadlines, separately, is understandable. But they are accumulating, and that can lead to a trend.

They can only "lead to a trend" if the Obama Administration fails in carrying them out!!

I am upset at several promises that seem to have been cast aside; however, I do believe that Gitmo will be closed, and sooner, rather than later!!

Afghanistan is a different issue; if, as Obama has admitted, Al-Qaeda is no longer in the country, but in Pakistan, as we have known for a LONG time now, then it's time to get the heck out!! Actually, it's long past time!! All we are doing is putting our troops in harms way; the original goal was to capture those responsible for 9/11, mainly, bin Laden, and Bush failed!! He is no longer there; we should no longer be there!!

HCR has been stalled for two reasons, the GOP, and, in my opinion, President Obama tossed the ball to Congress and walked away!! He should have been involved in this process, and why he walked away only he knows; however, it was a huge mistake that could cost him!! HCR was so important that he placed it above many other promises, policies, etc., which he campaigned on; if it was that important to him, he would have been more involved!! This has been a great disappointment to date!!
GoreBull Warming will help lower your heating bill this winter. Good news for the 27 million unemployed and underemployed who can't make ends meet.
When Obama bowed to the Emperor of Japan, did he also apologize for the US forcing Japan to bomb Pearl Harbor?
The Chinese should be familiar with Obama's "impressive' speeches. They produce the teleprompters Obama he uses to read his "impressive" speeches.
That's a fine explanation, Ron; however, why don't we ever see them bow back?
here a bow, there a bow, everywhere a bow bow (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 12:12 PM)

Were you as outraged when George W. Bush kissed the Saudi King??  Or when Dumsfeld kissed both cheeks of Sadaam Hussein??  

Anyone notice that after I said how I 'had more' on Sarah, and that she better not say anything about me or I'd 'tell all', all of a sudden she smiles nicely and says she'd like me over for thanksgiving dinner, and she wants me to be 'in the fold' still?
Hmmm....... suppose one thing is related to the other??
My 2 cents on the terrorist trial.  I'm torn.  I think they should go through some form of trial but I have to admit at the end of the day I would like these terrorists in particular to be treated like the 8 Nazis in WW2.  I think my main concern is that this will drawn out for months or years and by the end of it one of them could die of natural causes.  I don't know about you but I would be disgusted if one of the terrorists makes it to the end of his natural life.  I think the best thing would be a military court that could be wrapped up in a couple of months and then they could be executed immediately.

I can tell you the media circus surrounding this trial will not be appreciated by the relatives of the victims.
Ron, Indiana: Yes, I saw the bow.  It was a deep bow.  It was also protocol.  



No it's not. It is not "protocol", at least not in western culture. The leader of the free world bows to no one. Obama is the first US President to start this bowing nonsense. I ashamed of him for doing so.
Now if a Chinese or Japanese leader showed up in the United States, and had a town hall to lecture us on how we should behave whether it be for the Internet or Climate Change, I'd feel a tad bit insulted by that type of behavior. But not Obama. He takes his stupid and staged town hall meetings on the road with him. It is the height of arrogance from a very arrogant so called leader.

If the United States is to continue being an all-encompassing country, religion must return to a personal level and stay out of politics.
Jody, Iowa (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 12:14 PM)

I agree, Jody!! As a Catholic, the Vatican has infuriated me over the years!! Most recently, in 2004, when it distributed massive amounts of literature, which was passed out at Sunday masses across the country, TELLING us not to vote for Senator Kerry because he is pro-choice!!

What the Vatican does in single out Catholics in politics; if one is a Christian who is pro-choice, such as many other candidates, there isn't a peep from the Vatican!! And as much as I despise Rudy Giuliani, because he is pro-choice, the Vatican also attacked Giuliani in last year’s republican primary!!

The Vatican needs to stay the heck out of our politics period; however, I will say that most of my Catholic friends and family ignore their attempts at influencing votes; we vote who we believe to be the best candidate!!
GoreBull Warming will help lower your heating bill this winter. Good news for the 27 million unemployed and underemployed who can't make ends meet.
David “Amerigo Bonasera” Axelrod - White House Chief of Combovers (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 12:37 PM)

So, now the unemployment rate is "all Al Gore's fault"!! You people just never stop!!


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