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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



'Legislative coup' looms in Pakistan?

Posted: Monday, November 16, 2009 1:28 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

From NBC's Robert Windrem
Pakistan’s civilian and military leaders are tangling in a series of political confrontations that could lead to a constitutional crisis or worse after the New Year, officials in both Islamabad and Washington tell NBC News.

With the tenor and volume of debate rising over America’s commitment to Afghanistan, that struggle is complicating U.S. strategy to stabilize the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. It's not only that dozens are dying every week in suicide bombings or that there are concerns that the Pakistani military will not be able to hold the territory it has won in hard-fought battles in South Waziristan. The more profound issue, say Pakistani and U.S. officials, is the fate of President Asif Ali Zardari, who is engaged in a seemingly never-ending battles with the country’s powerful military and intelligence establishments.

In recent weeks, say officials, opponents of Zardari have begun raising the stakes, setting up what some are calling a “soft coup … a legislative coup” -- an attempt to force Zardari out. How does this all play out in terms of relations with the U.S.? Often, the Americans are caught in the middle.

NBC producer Amna Nawaz recently returned from Pakistan. You can watch and read some of her work from here trip here.

For more on this story, click here.

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Comments

firtread, why bother with these threads. u fail to update any of the others?
FR: With the tenor and volume of debate rising over America’s commitment to Afghanistan, that struggle is complicating U.S. strategy to stabilize the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.

----------------

See Obama? That's what happens when you dither with your decision on Afghanistan. That's what happens when instead of committing to "Fighting the war that must be fought', you start sending clear messages that you will cut and run. Obama is a lot of things, but one them is not a leader.
Maybe if Obama went to Pakistan and bowed to Zardari, or maybe somebody else? Would that help?
Just what we need
to say nothing of the Pakistani's

The leader if the Pakistani government used to be known as 'MR 10 percent' when he was the husband of the PM, Benizir Bhutto

I heard he's know as 'Mr 30 per cent' now ....


From Washington Monthly:

'* New York Gov. David Paterson (D) continues to look like a candidate seeking another term next year, but a new Siena poll shows him trailing state Attorney General Andrew Cuomo in a hypothetical primary match-up by a whopping 59 points, 75% to 16%...'

This may be real good news for NY Democrats

Pat, Huntington, how is Cuomo as an AG ??

It's too bad we need Pakistan to finance our debt. Else we could just cut them loose.
Joan, Ohio, "The leader of the free world bows to no one."
Perhaps georgie bowed to no one, but I'm hoping that President Obama does, and knows who to bow down to - the Lord, unfortunately, someone that georgie never met, but I'm still praying he will someday, he is gonna need a lot of forgiveness for what he has done to our nation.
Union Baby, Tennessee

---------------

Not even 10 months in, and for Obama, we're down to our last hope with him through prayer. Maybe Rev Wright can stop by the WH and throw a few more "GD Americas" at the oh so religious Barack.

And President Bush was a very religious man. He took a different tact then Obama in that he worshipped the Lord rather then listening to someone damning the country.
Lets just get it over with.It's time to take out Pakistan's nukes,before they fall into the wrong hands.This country has had every chance to get it's borders secured.They have also taken 5 BILLION from us,with only 5 million being accountable for.This means the government of Pakistan skimmed 4.5 billion for themselfs.Can't trust any of them,NONE
A good first step in thawing any cold relations that might have been built up over the last 8 years is, of course, a good thing. If we set the example of what a democratic/republic is supposed to be and always come across as positive they will want to be like us. If we bully they will despise us and want us out of their lives. Mr. President, you are doing a good job with your diplomacy. Thank You.
eagle1776

Thank you eagle, it is a pleasure working for you. You seem like a middle class type of person, and I just hope you won't be part of the newly unemployed when I raise taxes on you and everyone else in the country. I know many are suffering, but government is the answer to every problem, and it takes a lot of money to finance all those takeoves. Rest assure that if you do lose your job, there will be massive and expensive government programs that will pay for your food, shelter, and clothing. It will also pay for your health care, and even your cable tv so you can watch all my hundreds of speeches. In fact, those poor working stiffs will support you even though you don't have a job. And again, thank you for your support. And remember, vote for me!
FR: Illinois GOP Reps. Donald Manzullo, Mark Kirk, and Peter Roskam will hold a press conference at 11:30 am ET to oppose any such transfer (despite all the other murderers, rapists, and child molesters who already populate the state’s prisons...).

You just don't get it FR, do you? It's like trying to teach a pig to sing, you get frustrated, and you annoy the pig. Besides making the state and Chicago a target (Terrorists have this thing for tall buildings, or don't you remember?), putting the terrorists on a public trial will be a rating bonanaza, for recruiting more terrorists.  But liberals like the snarky FR writers won't get that message. That's all they care about is bringing America down a notch or two when the waterboarding information is brought out, and any mistakes the Bush adminstration (the real reason Obama wants public trials) come out. FR, Patriots, you are not.
This area is so dangerous.  I'm no expert but it  seems that our presence in the region fuels the Islamic radicals even more, and fuels the ever present unrest.  The entire region has been fighting among themselves for years.  Maybe the best solution is for the US to leave; surely we can be more effective from a distance and that way we don't appear as the occupier or the agressor.  Then the flip side of my mind remembers that Pakistan has nuclear weapons.  In many ways, the threat of militants with nuclear weapons is more frightening than the Cold War because neither the USSR or USA would have used the bombs whereas the terrorists  don't care if they destroy their country along with themselves--their extremism has no logic.  
I forget...which recent US president declared pakistan an ally in the war on terror and gave them tens of billions with no strings attached?

How did the bushleague pandering to the same people in pakistan who had coddled the taliban and alqueda work out for us anyway?

No osama been forgotten and the war on terror in pakistan looks more and more like a joke. Thanks for nothing bush and cheney.
Regarding Sarah Palin, since this blog seems to move along either quickly, or at a snail's pace, her troubles are of her own making!!

The best Sarah Palin can ever do is landing a gig on Fox as an "analyst," as their bar is in the gutter!! Hello, Ollie “the shredder” North!!  Yet she isn't even up to her own show, let alone national politics!! She makes a fool of herself every time she opens her mouth!! As a democrat, she truly is the gift that keeps giving!!

If she were to EVER run for anything again, the clips of her Couric interview, when she couldn't answer a question as easy as naming one newspaper or magazine she reads, will be the cornerstone of every ad by every opponent, to include republicans in any primary!!

It's obvious Mitt Romney is running; he has already began his campaign!! And just as he put out negative ad after negative ad during last year's primaries, he'll do the same with Sarah Palin!! Actually, last year's ads will pale in comparison to what he'll do to Sarah Palin!! Mitt stands no chance either; as I posted elsewhere, no one will vote for a man who looks like he belongs in The Wax Museum at Fisherman's Wharf!! The 2012 republican Primaries, if anything, will be entertaining for the democrats!!
I wonder if that little s*it Rahm Emanuel had anything to do with this!! He really needs to go!!  

Pam, San Pedro, California (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 1:33 PM)
__________________

I'll drink to that my friend!!! lol lol
___________________

Patriots, you are not.

Len Walker, NY NY (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 2:05 PM)
____________________

Listen Lenny... When you live in Chicago or IL for that matter you can have a seat at the table!  In the meantime do us all a big favor and STFU!
I know it isn't your fault but the combination  you'll are dealing with has my schedule all screwed up too. I do appreciate Mr Todd keeping us up to speed on the overseas trip despite the time difference. Kind of takes me back to this summer staying up late watching the games.This problem in Pakistan is really going to complicate the Afgan deal.It isn't going to do any good if we can stabilize Afganistan if there is an open border these jokers can slip back and forth over.Hate to keep bringing this up but ask any Vet what they thought about Laos and that little game we played for years. Thanks to all and I hope that everyone knows that there was no intent to offend by ommission, lack of clarity or misperception on my part simply an old guy that still struggles with a technology that has mostly outrun abilities that were developed in an earlier age. Several things were there that I hope to walk around and meditate on for a while and I surely appreciate the thoughts and consideration  
"How does this all play out in terms of relations with the U.S.? Often, the Americans are caught in the middle."

Well, AmeriCA, not Americans, is often caught in the middle because past governments have chosen to stick their noses in where they don't belong!! Hello, Ronald Reagan, George Herbert Walker Bush, George W. Bush!! Oh, can't forget Tricky Dick!!

It's all about oil; had American listened to Jimmy Carter decades ago, we wouldn't be in the position STILL find ourselves in!! But no, Carter was mocked!!

When Reagan hit the WH, we were really screwed!!


 
I don't presume to know why the briefing is delayed but it is possible there is additional information coming from the investigation to be evaluated before briefing the committees, and it is possible that McHugh and Casey had something critical take priority.
Jody, Iowa (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 1:56 PM)

I usually always agree with your posts, Jody, and enjoy them very much; however, even with new information, there should be no reason to not have briefings on this tragedy!!

The sooner we find out what Hasan's despicable motive was, the better off we will be!! The hate rhetoric I have read, to include this site, has been appalling!! Having lived in the Middle East, I can tell you that the MAJORITY of Arab Muslims denounce terrorism, murder in the name of Allah, and truly like Americans!!

Delaying briefings not only hurts this country, it hurts the millions of Muslims both here and around the world that have had to listen to, and read, the hat from the ignorant base of this country!!
They fixate on search and destroy missions (emphasis on destroy) that seek to diminish the credibility  of those who do not share their point of view. That approach is often amusing since it reveals the contortions they go through to parse a post so they can extract just the meaning they seek to further their misguided agenda.

Bill, Fairfax, VA (Sent Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:12 AM)
___________________

As for the obscenity remark you reference, are you referring to ‘asshole’ or ‘GFU’?  Both still apply.

Bill, Fairfax, VA (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 1:42 PM)
____________________

You’re a real piece of work there Bill!  

Tell me… was it difficult to learn to talk out of BOTH sides of your mouth? Or does it just come naturally?
How in the world is anything Obama did or didn't do have to do with Pakinstan's internal affairs?  That country has had military coups up the ying yang over the whether we had a republican or democrat in the white house.  Its an instable country, that is made more worisome because its a nuclear power.  That Obama is making an intelligent decision, as opposed to a knee jerk send in more troops in the tens of thousands decision, has nothing to do with the unrest in Pakistan.  Maybe, if Bush didn't drop the ball for 8 years with Afghanistan, then maybe Pakistan wouldn't be in the mess its currently in.
Delaying briefings not only hurts this country, it hurts the millions of Muslims both here and around the world that have had to listen to, and read, the hat from the ignorant base of this country!!
And President Bush was a very religious man. He took a different tact then Obama in that he worshipped the Lord rather then listening to someone damning the country.
Karen Graber, Madison WI (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 1:46 PM)

No kind way to say this, SHUT UP!! Bush didn't worship anyone but himself, the Saudi Royal Family and those that co-signed his entire BS!!

Religious people DO NOT lie to the country in order to get the revenge he wanted for years after his Daddy took a beating in his loss to Bill Clinton; true Christians DO NOT betray the men and women of the military and send them to their deaths for no reason other than revenge; true Christians DO NOT place their hand on a Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution, only to use it in lieu of toilet paper for eight years!! No, George W. Bush is NO Christian, and there is a special place in Hell awaiting George W. Bush for his atrocities!!
Selfish Children Think Like You.  What a pathetic, cheap shot.  I take the pledge of allegiance as seriously as you do.  You missed the entire point of my comment in your zest to accuse me of being unpatriotic.  Our Constitution stipulates the separation of Church and State, and one religious group dictating to the rest is wrong whether it is the Stupak amendment or adding words to the Pledge of Alligiance.  When we say the Pledge, we vow our alligiance to our country with or without the words "under God".  The author who wrote the Pledge did NOT include the words "under God"; those words were added later through the efforts of a Catholic fraternal group.  
Good, let Illinois have those terrorists, every last one of them. That garbage dump will the best place for the terrorists. I pity the people of that state, crppy government run completely by Democrats, crappy President that came from there. Illinois is certainly the ahole of the country.
Right there, you're wrong. The shouting of “Allahu Akbar” before he began shooting echo those of other jihadists. And email records confirm that he was in touch with a radical Muslim cleric.
Rather then the truth, you're basing your view point on hope.
CW - Missouri (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 2:28 PM)

Another member of the Ignorant Base of this country; you choose to believe what you want to believe; there has been NO formal report that he shouted these words!!

How about waiting until ALL the evidence is out there, a final report is released and shared with this country before you make your decision!!

After the Oklahoma City bombing, an Arab man landed in Italy, and was immediately flown back to the United States as a suspect!! The evidence?  None, he was an Arab!! Timothy McVeigh, a white American, was the monster who carried out that act of domestic terrorism!! I thought after that horrific incident, and the poor man's photo plastered on every news station, people would be more careful as to make assumptions!! Yes, Hasan is Arab and a Muslim; however, you, me and not one American knows why he did what he did!!

Let's wait for the final findings, please!!
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 2:28 PM)

I think it is a requirement for lifetime membership to the Republican Party.
what is taking the cbo such a long time to do a cost analysis? Get it together; we need healthcare now.
voter



The CBO can't get much done when they are  hysterically laughing.
Your parents must have both been retarded, and that's why you're so special.
Ed Garner, Iowa (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 2:28 PM)

How DARE you?? First off, there are millions of people around the world who suffer from mental retardation!! Do you really think this is funny?? How low can you get?? You are a disgraceful person and a sad excuse for a human being!!

To mock millions of people around the world, and their parents who have lovingly raised them, undoubtedly facing great challenges, is shameful!!

SHAME ON YOU!!
Tell me… was it difficult to learn to talk out of BOTH sides of your mouth? Or does it just come naturally?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

What are you whining about, you keep talking out of your butthole.
Houston (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 12:58 PM)

If nothing else, I can agree with you on the intelligence and decisions regarding Iraq.  Unfortunately one government official from Iraq won't outweigh our own (and more trusted..ok usually more trusted)intelligence.  Also unfortunate was that the intelligence about WMDs was inaccurate.  Not the first piece of intel to be and not the last.  The saddest part is many good men and women have been lost because of it.  We are all wrong, but at least I'm smart enough to understand the scope of my actions.  I don't want the President's job.  If I make a mistake, more than likely I only hurt myself.  If he(or eventually she) makes a mistake its American lives.  Wrestle your mind around that one and perhaps people on both sides can cut our Presidents some slack.  Then again, they signed up for it.  Vicious circle right?
How in the world is anything Obama did or didn't do have to do with Pakinstan's internal affairs?  That country has had military coups up the ying yang over the whether we had a republican or democrat in the white house.  Its an instable country, that is made more worisome because its a nuclear power.  That Obama is making an intelligent decision, as opposed to a knee jerk send in more troops in the tens of thousands decision, has nothing to do with the unrest in Pakistan.  Maybe, if Bush didn't drop the ball for 8 years with Afghanistan, then maybe Pakistan wouldn't be in the mess its currently in.
pat huntington ny (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 2:31 PM)

So Obama's dithering has no effect on Pakastan's internal affairs but Bush's bungling over 8 years does?

Please, please, please explain your logic.
That is just a sad comment from a sad person. Us real americans know Sarah has way higher morals than that.
proud republican (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 1:32 PM)

"Us real Americans?" Now just who might those people be?? Those like you, who not only co-signed Bush's BS; the treason he committed against this country, to include the military; used the Constitution in lieu of toilet paper; violated national laws and international treaties; killed for revenge; wiretapped and spied on our country's citizens; transported suspected "terrorists" to other countries, placed them in secret prisons and signed off on torturing them?  Yeah, you're a REAL American all right?? NOT!!

You're as cowardly and treasonous of an American as the man you defend, George W. Bush!!
Your parents must have both been retarded, and that's why you're so special.
Ed Garner, Iowa (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 2:28 PM)

How DARE you?? First off, there are millions of people around the world who suffer from mental retardation!! Do you really think this is funny?? How low can you get?? You are a disgraceful person and a sad excuse for a human being!!

To mock millions of people around the world, and their parents who have lovingly raised them, undoubtedly facing great challenges, is shameful!!

SHAME ON YOU!!

Pam, San Pedro, California


So when Obama did the same, you were okay with it?
Pam, San Pedro.  Yes it is important to have the briefings.  The military investigation continues but we do not know from this FR thread the reason for the delay or if that reason could be important to the briefing's accuracy and completeness.  Appreciate your thought about it.
Pakistan and that entire region can't be reasoned with, why should we continue to waste American lives and spend money trying to make all these radical religous factions get along, they are taught from birth to hate on another, it is their way of life, the culture of their society, WE WILL NEVER CHANGE THAT, nor is it our place to.
Attorney General Andrew Cuomo in a hypothetical primary match-up by a whopping 59 points, 75% to 16%...'
This may be real good news for NY Democrats
Pat, Huntington, how is Cuomo as an AG ??
MSierra, SF (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 1:39 PM)

I hope Andrew Cuomo runs and wins!!
No kind way to say this, SHUT UP!! Bush didn't worship anyone but himself, the Saudi Royal Family and those that co-signed his entire BS!!

Religious people DO NOT lie to the country in order to get the revenge he wanted for years after his Daddy took a beating in his loss to Bill Clinton; true Christians DO NOT betray the men and women of the military and send them to their deaths for no reason other than revenge; true Christians DO NOT place their hand on a Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution, only to use it in lieu of toilet paper for eight years!! No, George W. Bush is NO Christian, and there is a special place in Hell awaiting George W. Bush for his atrocities!!

Pam, San Pedro, California

What is it with liberals and then telling people they disagree with to "shut up"? I know they, the libs, aren't the brightest blubs around, but you'd think they'd be open to different opinions. I guess libs are only open-minded though until they disagree with you, then you get the "shut-up" message from them. I guess that's the response they can come up with.
 
To mock millions of people around the world, and their parents who have lovingly raised them, undoubtedly facing great challenges, is shameful!!

SHAME ON YOU!!

Pam, San Pedro, California



You've blasted Sarah Palin plenty.  Are you including her in your defense?
Jody, Iowa (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 2:35 PM)

Jody, he/she did NOT miss your point; they chose to attack you!! Anyone with a brain understood what you said; I agree with you 100%!!

These religious zealots jump at any chance to select portions of what people say, or write, in their bumbling quest to merge Church and State!! They are truly pathetic!!  For it is them, NOT us, that violate the Constitution of this country on a daily, if not hourly, basis!! You know, the one’s that call themselves real Americans” yet are as cowardly and treasonous as the man they have never stopped defending, George W. Bush!!
Honesty, please how do you think nuclear weapons are seized or how do they work? Do you think you just put a nuke in a barrel of a gun and fire it? lol.

Unless Pakistan is couped by some other radical, which i doubt even more as all islamic parties have usually won 5 percent most in pakistani elections, and lets not forget the nukes arent in the middle of a desert.

Pakistan has fixed infrastructure, roads, and military. I remember when gillani said "if trucks or cars filled with terrorists came, all we gotta do is blow them up."

These terrorists only reside in tribal areas because its easier and they can. Pakistan is almost like a confederacy when it comes to northern and tribal areas...but now their writ has been challened and tribal leaders themselves want to see writ.

ITS TIME FOR OBAMA TO MAKE A DECISION. HELP THE PAKISTANIS OUT AND DONT BE A CRYING WOLF. You are losing blaming others because you are losing the war today to stones pelting men. Lets not forget the roman empire too fell due to some barbarians who were deemd weak.
So when Obama did the same, you were okay with it?
Special Ed (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 2:55 PM)

No; I was NOT!! When he made the "Special Olympics" comment on Jay Leno's "Tonight Show," I was appalled, and said so!!

He apologized though; I'll await an apology to Feisty!!
That's all they care about is bringing America down a notch or two when the waterboarding information is brought out, and any mistakes the Bush adminstration (the real reason Obama wants public trials) come out. FR, Patriots, you are not.
Len Walker, NY NY (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 2:05 PM)

Seems to me you are TERRIFIED of the many illegal things that Bush did coming out?? I say, let it ALL come out; this country must NEVER forget the crimes against humanity Bush committed!! NEVER!!
Mo

It's time to get an education. That 6th grade schoolin' isn't gonna get it for ya, bro.
The author who wrote the Pledge did NOT include the words "under God"; those words were added later through the efforts of a Catholic fraternal group.  
Jody, Iowa (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 2:35 PM)

jody, you better go check your facts. The Knights of Columbus were only one of many that suggested changes to the pledge.
Feisty R, IL.  Yes, Tom Harkin makes me proud.  Now if Iowa could just find a replacement for Grassley whose remarks often make me cringe.
He apologized though; I'll await an apology to Feisty!!

Pam, San Pedro, California (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 3:04 PM)

oh, he apologized so that wiped it off the record.  Did that not make you think something about the character of the man that he would say something like that?  His arrogance is off the chart!  Having grown up with a "handicapped" child in the household, I take great exception to his statement and think it shows just how low class he really is.
Pam, San Pedro, California (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 2:33 PM)

Woooooooow. Perhaps you've heard of making mistakes?  Especially mistakes that are heavily influence by incorrect data other like-minded people who believe the same said data.  You act like G.W. took office and immediately and unilaterally sent our men and woman into war.  

I certainly hope you exercise a little humility in your talks with God.  A good Christian like yourself I'm sure have flipped through the Bible a few times.  Remember all those stories about forgiveness, love of family, and faith?  I don't think your in any kind of position to judge how strong or weak someone's faith is or to even call anyone, including the President, not a Christian.  Or to say someone is or isn't going to Hell.  Unless I am mistaken and you are the second coming.   I can sympathize with your anger, but I find your words extremely troubling.  Perhaps a step back and a few moments in quiet contemplation before lashing out next time?
You've blasted Sarah Palin plenty.  Are you including her in your defense?
sarah's okay (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 3:01 PM)

I have NEVER ONCE attacked Sarah Palin's son, who suffers from Down Syndrome!! I have called Sarah Palin out on her BS and her lies!!

I have NEVER ONCE attacked the manner in which she OR her husband has raised their child!!

Get real!!


See Obama? That's what happens when you dither with your decision on Afghanistan. That's what happens when instead of committing to "Fighting the war that must be fought', you start sending clear messages that you will cut and run. Obama is a lot of things, but one them is not a leader.
JT Earl, OK (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 1:36 PM)

JT...Please go to your nearest USMC recruiter and sign up!!!!  That said, If you are so committed to OUR country expeding more blood and treasure on Afganistan, let's pass a DRAFT law and start selling WAR BONDS and see who steps up to the plate.  No doubt I will get nothing but crickets from the likes of you faux patriots with your cross wrpped in a flag ideology.  What say you Republicans?????

I guess libs are only open-minded though until they disagree with you, then you get the "shut-up" message from them. I guess that's the response they can come up with.
Gary Johnston (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 3:00 PM)

Gary, is your temper tantrum over yet?? First off, when told I am NOT a "real American" - Hell yes, I will tell that person to SHUT UP!!

If you right-wingers would not question our patriotism, or imply we are stupid, "not the brightest bulbs in the room," perhaps it will stop!! And by implying we are stupid, it's quite hypocritical to chastise me for stating, "shut up"!! But I've come to expect nothing but hypocrisy from the likes of those like you!!

Do have a good day now!!
What are you whining about, you keep talking out of your butthole.
Anale S (Sent Monday, November 16, 2009 2:45 PM)

It's the only orifice they know how to speak out of!!


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