Obama camp calls for half votes

Democrats Unite! — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:24:58 GMT

ENOUGH people. If you are a Democrat, feel free to support whichever candidate you believe in during the primary season, but once a nominee is found, support that nominee! It doesn't matter whether I am an Obama supporter or Clinton supporter. I am, first, a Democratic Party supporter. If my person does not get nominated, I will vote for the other, even gladly. I do not want 4 more years of McSame. It would be devestating to this country. So to those, on both sides, that say their person or no-one, or their person or McCain, really think about what you are saying. What you are voting or not voting for, and the impact it will have for years on the country. When we remain in this war and more die, when our economy stays in the tank, when we have no energy policy towards climate change, when we have no tax cuts for those who need it, when the Supreme Court is packed with ultra-conservative activist judges, you will be to blame. Unite! Either candidate is far and away better than what McCain represents. I hope this is posted -- this is so important.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Dan, PA — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:27:14 GMT

Obama is vacuous. He is a neoliberal. He has no experience, and has spent his entire brief political career in personal aggrandizement. A major reason Obama has succeeded has been the adoption of the right wing war against the Clintons - either in the passive form (Clinton has too many enemies to win) or in an irrational attack on her as Rovian. In fact, Clinton and Obama are largely the same on policy. It just so happens that Clinton could execute the job of President, and Obama is likely to be a one term disaster - the challenges we face are too large, and his promises too large and too empty, to lead to anything else.

The American people voted an empty suit in 2000 and 2004 The Democrats want one for 2008. It's a shame - we could have had a President instead.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Bonnie, OH — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:27:16 GMT

Ickes got the smackdown from Wexler: "Clarify the concept of fair reflection??!" Priceless...Somebody get this clip up so I can watch it again.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Gail, TN — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:27:23 GMT

Good grief.

"Uncommitted - The Candidate." Sounds like a great title for the inevitable HBO movie!

Obama camp calls for half votes

jd — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:28:56 GMT

So it becomes a fight over who is committed to who and not a fight over what is right for those 2 states AND the rest of the country.

How are we supposed to believe in this process anymore?

This is going to the convention, if people don't see that now, they are living in a dream world. Clinton is going to go NUCLEAR and take it to the floor at the convention.

I don't see it any other way.

Obama camp calls for half votes

BJ, CA — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:29:27 GMT

Half of nothing is still nothing or

something for something is still nothing...

Moving the goal post is against the rules...

Obama and Clinton both know this....

No wonder my grandfather called them "dumbacraps"

Obama camp calls for half votes

BettiH. Indianapolis, IN — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:29:27 GMT

I agree with the Obama camp. It wasn't the voters fault, and the only reason why all this is in question now is because Clinton is losing. I think if the Clinton camp isn't happy with the allocation of giving Clinton 19 more, than don't count them at all, because obama's camp shouldn't penalized for following the rules.

Obama camp calls for half votes

the Truth is out there — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:30:20 GMT

Obama Yes
Clinton Maybe

This is who we should elect:
http://www.progressive.org/mag_reed0508

Obama camp calls for half votes

Leander, Albany NY — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:30:23 GMT

I think seating the the Michigan and Florida delegations is a hypocritical move any way you slice it.

From the DNC perspective what message does it send?

From Hillary Clinton's approach what does it say about her? If you can't win by the rules change them?

From Barack Obama's position possible alienation of key constituencies?

I think of all the positions to be in I'd rather be in Barack Obama's, he's got the flexibility in this situation. However he's also got the pressure. I personally don't think the PEOPLE of MI and FL should be neglected because of the actions of selfish, ambitious and arrogant party leaders in those states. Obama may do well to negotiate with respect to Florida's delegation (considering his name was on the ballot), but he should in no way concede anything less than a 50/50 split in Michigan.

The DNC should probably move to immediately fix their nominating process. I would suggest an alternating schedule of three or four successive "waves" of voting. Stage 1 - four to six states get their "influence" as the first primary/caucuses (however, they would go to the last two stages in successive cycles until it was again their turn). Stage 2 - a massive primary event akin to super tuesday where 40% or more of states hold their primaries / caucuses on the same day. Stage 3 (and or 4) the remaining states vote 6 weeks later. Over and done with, fair and revolving (almost like proportional allocation).

Senator Clinton however occupies the worst position in this conflict. She essentially turns herself into a hypocrite and puts her "say and do anything" approach to politics on very public (and I think humiliating if not self-deprecating) display. It really doesnt help her appeal in succeeding elections. I really think that we should take a step back and evaluate Senator Clinton's integrity in light of her about face on the DNC's action.

I agree with senator clinton that the delegates should be seated. But I think it's pretty clear that her only reasoning for it is because it helps her, not because the people of Michigan and Florida deserve representation. She wouldn't be singing this tune if the results favored Obama (I don't think Obama would be arguing it either). However, you cannot deny the argument that the results were skewed because of the ruling. Voters DID stay home, Obama and Edwards' names were NOT on the ballots in Michigan. She didn't really win, considering their wasn't a real contest (and her move to keep her name on the ballot in MI was an attempt to rig the outcome).

My opinion is that only way the FL and MI delegates should be seated is in such a way that it does not provide either candidate with an advantage. This should be especially true with regards to Michigan. Florida is a slightly different story but I think that the argument about people not voting still holds water. The only negotiating going on should be with regards to Florida. Michigan should be 50/50 hands down. Give the people representation, but the "superdelegates" in MI and FL (those who probably had more to do with causing this problem) ought to remain duly chastised.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Frank Westbrook, Provo Utah — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:31:06 GMT

Obama camp calls for this. Clinton camp wants that. What is this garbage? These two do not make the rules! If they don't like the outcome, take it to court!

What is really lost in all this is that no candidate should have a say in the outcome. Rules are rules. So, just follow the rules. Players in football or baseball games don't get to say what the rules are. Officials make and enforce the rules. Players (candidates) follow them.

What the Democrats have now is nothing short of anarchy with the inmates running the asylum.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Sunshine. Peoria IL — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:31:59 GMT

If Sen. Clinton wants to continue to make her case that she would be the best democratic nominee, then by all means let her do so. But let her and her surrogates do so using accurate and truthful means, without this kind of misleading hyperbole.

Talk about polls if you want to, but make sure to note that there as many polls showing Obama leading as Clinton. There are polls showing both get more than 270 electral votes (albeit in different ways). And general election polls five months out are pretty meaningless in anyway (just ask Bill Clinton circa 1992 when he was way down in the polls five months out).

Make your case than MI and FL should be seated. But stop blaming the Obama camp for it. Mention that your own advisor Harold Ickes was one of the people who voted to strip all the delegates. Mention that you agreed to it. Your own spokesman Terry MacAuliffe, as DNC chair, said the same thing. And for goodness sake, stop comparing an intraparty nominating contest to abolition, women's suffrage and election in Zimbabwe. Last I heard, no one was running around beating up teachers, clergy and jailing journalists. That's how they run elections in Zimbabwe.

Try to make you case for popular vote. But do mention that you knew (and said!) that delegates were what counted not to many months ago. Mention that while you count MI and FL, you also have to discount 4 caucus states to do. Mention that winning PR doesn't mean anything because they don't vote in the general election. And do mention that your opponent wasn't even on the ballot in one of those states and you won't give him any delegates (so who's blocking allowing MI now?).

My only request for Sen. Clinton (and I would ask the same of Sen. Obama) is the campaign truthfully. If anything, such obviously misleading, half-truthful and inconsistent arguments hurt her campaign. And people don't elect people they don't trust.

Obama camp calls for half votes

GOBAMA — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:32:38 GMT

We can all see where real statesmanship, and Presidential presence resides.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Hussein — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:35:19 GMT

So, everyone is operating on the assumption that all Americans have the right to vote in either state and national democratic party elections. Well, the democratic party is a private organization and only members are guaranteed a vote in its nominating contests. The rest of the American electorate has had the opportunity to help choose the democratic nominee, but it has never been a right. ALL (ELIGIBLE) AMERICANS HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE IN STATE AND NATIONAL ELECTIONS!!! VOTE FOR ELECTED OFFICE!!! This is why most states have restrictions limiting citizens to vote in either party, but not both.

Why would anyone be concerned about the popular vote, like that is a measure of the 'will of the people?' How can you even suggest that a contest that has only one parties candidates is the will of the people; disenfranchising everyone who chose to vote in the GOP primary process.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Jonsey Jones — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:35:38 GMT

This coming from a man (Obama) whose entire race endured the pain of being regarded as three-fifths of a person. Now Obama says voters in Flordia and Michigan should be regared as half a person. They obviously didn't teach History at Harvard.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Deborah Greenlawn, NY — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:35:54 GMT

Because potentially some party hack, ie. Ickes,
should not count more than a duly voted delegate.
The votes, remember??? Ick.

We know what they want-to be Queen. Not going to get THAT either. But they DID want to sign off to strip FL and MI, RIGHT? And they did. Take it or leave it.

As goes FL, As goes MI, so go the supers.

Obama camp calls for half votes

John McCauley — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:38:47 GMT

It seems that the DNC cannot follow theirown contradictory and illegal rules.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Annadda Human On Da Planet, A City — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:39:22 GMT

Well, it is just sort of Tough for Ms. Joiner and the Clinton Campaign, They are NOT going to get what they want NO MATTER HOW BIG OF A TANTRUM THEY THROW.

Watch this at YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG1LLTYkn4I

No Matter How Big of a Tantrum they Throw!!

Obama camp calls for half votes

Sheldon Yivrakes — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:40:37 GMT

While watching todays events unfold I was made aware for the first time that both Michigan and Florida lost their "super Delegates." I fail to understand this as these delegates are not in any way tied to the normal delgate vote. They are supposed to be "experts" in the political process that were created to "save" the Party's nominating process in case of the unforseen. I would argue if I was a Clinton supporter that that these delegates should be completely reinstated. The second issue that I believe shows Obama's short sightedness in that the fight to restrict these delegates, especially in Mich. where the Sate party has agreed to a plan which only gains Ms. Clinton 10 additional votes, hurts him with voters in two states where he appears to have serious problems. Yes, he would be giving up a number of delegates and he would have to make up, but still keeps him in a substancial lead. It may well be worth the trade off. He would be buying good will for the future and he may need every vote in the Presidential election.

Obama camp calls for half votes

The man is drunk-- we need sober people -Help him — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:41:44 GMT

Hey! Icckes is drunk! He is drunk! The man is slurring! He is drunk! He is drunk! Oh, my word. No none should listen to this drunk! Get him to AA!

Obama camp calls for half votes

voter — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:42:52 GMT

What exactly is this rule of fair reflection that Harold Ickes raised? And how does fair come into play when a group has clearly stated supporters for either candidate?

Obama camp calls for half votes

Virtus, Albany NY — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:43:04 GMT

I really hope this event turns out to be a unifying one for the Democratic Party. But with the rhetoric and obvious intentions of many on the panel (read Ickes, Joyner, Karmack, Flournoy and Huffman), to uphold the case of their candidate rather than appeal to logic I fear it won’t.

That said I feel compelled to interject some logic into the rhetoric. I'll admit to being an Obama supporter but what I'm about to say is more of a logical critique than a political attack. Were Obama to rely on arguments supported by fallacy as does the Clinton camp I would be calling him out on it too. I just want some common sense from my candidates.

I'm tired of the lack of critical thinking and analysis evinced in the latter part of this nominating process. We've heard that Senator Clinton is the stronger candidate because she won the "Big States." However, this ignores the fact that Democrats turned out in far greater numbers than Republicans AND fallaciously ASSUMES that Obama will not win those states in the general election.

There is a difference between two democrats running against each other and a Democrat running against John McCain. Does anyone here believe that if Obama is the Nominee that he will not win CA,WA,OR,NY,NJ or any other Democratic stronghold? I believe Obama puts more states in play than Clinton does. Clinton Vs. McCain = same old political map, Obama Vs. McCain = something new entirely.

The other point I'd like to make is that Senator Clinton is advocating "counting every vote." But every vote wasn't cast in these primary contests. People voted in the Republican primary to have an impact somewhere or stayed home. They deserve to be counted do they not?

Yet despite all this, the move to "count every vote" is being used to bolster a position that still puts Clinton in a delegate disadvantage, where she can attempt to claim a "popular vote" majority that discounts/ignores Caucus results and participation. This faulty position will be used to try convincing enough Superdelegates to get her the nomination in spite of the massive nationwide turnout for Obama. Also note Senator Clinton thinks Obama should not be awarded any delegates for Michigan, do you think she wouldn’t be lobbying those “uncommitted delegates” in the same way she plans to lobby “superdelegates?” How is that in anyway reflective of the purported concern of having a primary outcome representative of the American people? Easy. It's not.

I don't blame Senator Clinton for using fallacies to pursuade the argument in her favor. It's the simplest way to win an argument, if your opponent or audience is simple enough to fall for it.

We deserve better, but we won't get it until we start thinking critically ourselves. So rather than point the finger at Senator Clinton let’s start taking responsibility for our own complacency.

Obama camp calls for half votes

GDI in Michigan — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:44:29 GMT

Can someone please tell me what the difference is between not counting my vote and casting it for me in a 50-50 65-45 split?

Let’s face it there is no fair solution the best would be not to allow Florida and Michigan to be seated and deal with the consequences.

Should have thought of that earlier Mr. Dean
Maybe i should change to disgruntled in Michigan

Obama camp calls for half votes

New Independent — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:45:20 GMT

Eric, Salinas, CA ---> These plans seem fair and equitable so that each candidate gets a fair shake. <---

Said the wolf to the sheep. It's always an "equitable outcome" when the wolf gets to eat the sheep. At least to the wolf.

It's tragic watching these "Democratic leaders" lead this once great party right off a cliff.

Obama camp calls for half votes

GDI in Michigan — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:46:26 GMT

Obama camp calls for half votes

LP, Maryland — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:46:41 GMT

Can MSNBC "not" interrupt the proceedings with analysts comments - I think we have lot of time to do after the meetings.

CNN and other are showing the telecast - unless MSNBC wants us to switch to those channels- Thanks

Obama camp calls for half votes

Janelle, Clinton, Iowa — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:47:13 GMT

So the Florida delegation welcomes Obama's concession that their delegates and superdelegates each receive a half vote. It still gets them seated, serves as a punishment for breaking the stated rules, and the voters who did not show up know they only missed a half a vote.

Yet the Clinton campaign will not concede anything? After agreeing at the beginning that NO delegates for any candidate would count, and after taking absolutely NO stand against the ruling of the DNC before she was losing, Hillary is not willing to be fair at all?

As an Obama supporter, I have a couple of friends who are Clinton supporters all the way and we have had many spirited debates over both candidates. But even they are shaking their heads to wonder why Hillary believes that this blind ambition with no integrity for right or wrong is going to be ok with the American people.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Rexx Amillion, Texas — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:48:44 GMT

Democrats are know for turning funerals into campaign events. Looks like they are doing the same thing with these proceedings. Little do they know though, this is their party's funeral.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Joe Ruggiero, Southbury, CT — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:48:51 GMT

This is disgusting. What happened to playing by the rules? A compromise of any sort by Obama or the committee sends the wrong message to all Americans. Tell all of the Clinton supporters to suck it up and go home. They lost. Period.

Obama camp calls for half votes

BJ, CA — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:50:36 GMT

Stick by the the rules or die by the rules..

This is Change We Can Believe In?

Obama camp calls for half votes

Harry, Los Angeles — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:51:07 GMT

Why do HRC supporters request full votes for FL? She wants it all. She always has had just herself on her mind. Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.

Obama camp calls for half votes

MDB, Baltimore, MD — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:51:33 GMT

This is all incredibly ridiculous. You can not except the primaries as reliable data. The contests were flawed and votes were cast under false pretenses... VOTERS WERE TOLD THAT THE VOTES WOULD NOT COUNT. Because of this - those who did not vote are disenfranchised. Many who did vote did not take the contest seriously (or didn't have their candidates name as a choice). DATA IS INCONCLUSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!! AND CAN NOT BE COUNTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obama camp calls for half votes

Steve, California — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:51:57 GMT

As Communist troops were pouring into Korea crossing bridges on the Yalu River General Douglas MacArthur was told he could bomb only the Korean side of those bridges. MacArthur responded by asking, "How do you bomb half a bridge?" The same goes for votes. How do you count half a vote?

Obama camp calls for half votes

Renee, Athens, GA — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:52:50 GMT

Domenico,

Can you explain the comment about fair reflection? I have never heard of it. But I imagine if I haven't most voters haven't.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Holman Jeffries, Nashville, Tn — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:53:28 GMT

Richard, Chicago:

Why is Sen. Levin giving a history lesson?

____________

He's engaging in what is called the fine art of CYA. He's one of the Michigan leaders that led the voters of his state into this mess. If those voters can remember things for more then 2 seconds, they'll let Sen. Levin know what they think next time he's up for election.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Jeri McEwen — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:54:45 GMT

Why isn't it unfair for campaign staffers to maintain a seat on any of the party's committees? Seems like a stacked deck to me. Is there anyone on the Rules and Bylaws Committee that is a co-chair or high staffer for Obama? AND, who is the woman sitting to the left of Harold Ickes? She seemed to be almost hostile sometimes during her questions. Great coverage by the way! I'm fascinated by the process that is usually overlooked.

Obama camp calls for half votes

jd — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:58:59 GMT

Oh poor Hillary.

Despite saying that Florida voters don't count, despite believing herself to be the inevitable nominee, despite "saying" she will support the nominee... and on and on.

She is showing that she will come out on Tuesday (or Wednesday) and declare that she is going to take it to the convention. I hope she takes her political career with her into the toilet.

Obama camp calls for half votes

S. Ports Fann — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:02:01 GMT

This is too funny. It's like playing a Super Bowl, and after the end of the game, the players sit around arguing about how many points each teams touchdowns were worth.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Mighty Blogger, Seattle, Wash — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:03:26 GMT

Shouldn't all the members of "ANY" rules committee be independent?

It scares me that a system like this exists within the democratic party.

Would love to get a look inside the republican party at this depth.

Obama camp calls for half votes

roger, lake view new york — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:06:57 GMT

count every vote

Obama camp calls for half votes

Michiel W So. Beloit, IL — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:10:18 GMT

I know this will not make it to the comments, but I will try once again.
Yes, I guess rules are rules, just as long as they do not hurt Senator Obama's chances. Please tell me why someone who voluntarily removed their name from the ballot should be awarded any delegates? Uncommitted means "no choice", right? Yet Senator Obama's supporters call for him to be awarded HALF of the delegates? So very democratic! Let this whole thing go to the convention. By then, a few more of Senator Obama's "associates" will have appeared and the people will have a clearer picture of the character of the man. Whether or not you like it, a person is judged by the company they keep. Senator Obama keeps some very strange company.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Alice H, HI — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:12:13 GMT

Why are they conceding to this infraction of the rules. A decision was already made. Go away go away Hillary!

Obama camp calls for half votes

Dr B, Phoenix, AZ — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:13:15 GMT

Doesn't the fact that the Clinton supporters want everything they ask for proof that this isn't really about party unity for them, but only about possibly winning? Obama is conceding the number of delegates she netted in both OH and PA combined. Seems very fair but of course it's not good enough for Hillary. And she had the nerve all these months to blast Obama as not being willing to find a FL/MI resolution. Typical bull s*&%.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Yvonne, Charlotte, NC — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:13:43 GMT

When the states have agreed to the concession, Clinton supporters look downright stupid to continue to push. They should call it a day and go home with their pantsuits!

Obama camp calls for half votes

Zach D. Fort Lauderdale, FL — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:15:21 GMT

We need to resolve this so we can prepare for November. Clinton has lost the nominating contest and they need to accept that. I live in Florida and the only reason I and many other voters went to the polls that day was the property tax referendum. It was a hot topic with city and county employees, such as teachers, police officers and firefighters lobbying against the proposal. The articles were in the local news that the democratic primary vote would not count and the candidates would not campaign here. The absolute majority of voters in Florida were concerned about their property taxes. Ask us. The Obama camp has offered a generous concession. Now we will see who is really cares about democratic voters or their own self serving interests.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Roofin Reality, Houston, Tx. — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:18:33 GMT

Come on Ms. Joyner, everyone knows that you can't have full votes. Let's agree to what appears to be a compromise, at least on part of the Obama camp, and move on. McCain is sitting there continuing to grow while we argue over something that everyone has already agreed would happen. Including even the Florida delegation.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Walt, San Antonio, TX — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:21:57 GMT

Clinton people are in the same posture on Florida as they are on Michigan - no longer pushing for what the delegation wants - no longer "standing up for" Florida Democrats. It's clearer than ever that the Clinton position is simply standing up for Clinton.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Bee — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:24:32 GMT

Like i have said before the Clintons doesn't care about Florida but their selfish ambition

Obama camp calls for half votes

Dave, Charlotte, NC — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:25:50 GMT

So, what do I tell my young children. "it's OK to break the rules as long as you are a Democrat".

Obama camp calls for half votes

John McCauley — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:25:52 GMT

It's obvious the DNC is at fault and needs to win back Michigan.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Bonnie Rapp Concord California — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:26:48 GMT

It seams to me that the proper thing to do would be to to 1/2 and 1/2 on the deligates both States.
That's only fair to both Barack and Hillary .

Obama camp calls for half votes

DemocraticPartyLeadership=IncompetenceOnPublicDisplay — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:27:39 GMT

Arthenia Joyner is a flaming loud-mouthed idiot.

Seating her on this committee is proof-positive that competence and logic were clearly not prerequisites.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Obama Supporter — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:35:48 GMT

They have the votes on FL for the full seating, half vote for each.

Obama camp calls for half votes

tony, Minneapolis, MN — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:36:21 GMT

Stop yapping about what Clinton wants, and do the right thing.

If you don't punish them, next primary season will be a riot, everybody moving their primaries to the front.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Jerri Young, San Francisco, Ca — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:46:57 GMT

Wexler was impressive. Any talk of him for VP? I was curious after I watched him, looked him up--great credentials--but haven't heard him put forth for VP. Have I missed something?

Obama camp calls for half votes

TheNest — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:49:54 GMT

Clinton has painted the Democratic party with the poisonous brush of "disenfranchising" voters and will maintain this point if she if not the nominee. This will haunt Dems for years if not decades to come. I don't see how the party can stand by and allow this to happen. I really don't get it.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Beverly in Chicago — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:11:14 GMT

What good does it do get popular votes, lose the nomination, and go down in American history as the worst, polarizing, (i.e.Democratic Party) female, candidate in USA history; who set the female movement back to the Stone Age

Since there is no fair way to a flawed MI primary; it is fair for 64-64 split. Simply because HRC is not a fair nominee by saying uncommitted is a fair ZERO. Her campaign is not fair to honor a voluntary signed pledge, renege, excite your base; then turn around blame your opponent for playing fairly.
She can’t have it all.

Obama camp calls for half votes

Harold, London, UK — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:22:55 GMT

What on earth is wrong with you guys? Were you at the same meeting as I was watching live on C-Span?

The Obama campaign's arguments were weak and badly-argued; it was left to the impassioned Clinton campaign - plus timely interjections by the briliant Harold Ickes and Hartina Flournoy - to remind us that votes are sacred - both the the Democratic Party and to the country of the USA: those 600,000 voters who turned up across the state of Michigan, what are they - chopped liver? If readers only had your disgustingly partisan piece to read, they might think so ...

As for Donna Brazille ("uncommitted" superdelegate - please, don't make me laugh0, who disingenuously told delegates that her "momma said always obey the rules", tell that to the late Rosa Parks. Truly a shameful moment in this less-than-noble saga ...

Obama camp calls for half votes

crat3 — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:41:49 GMT

In America, the beacon light of democracy to the world, we should not cut and dice votes to suit the ruthless ambition of tyrant Obama, who wants to win at any cost with the ends justifying the means. Only the rigged election system of a third world banana republic would have no regard for the integrity of the vote and not count people's votes.

Obama resorted to deplorable tactics to disenfranchise FL and MI voters - he blocked a revote and did nothing to resolve the issue, resorting to running out the time, so he could easily swipe the nomination.

The DNC "rules" must be rescinded as void ab initio. DNC "rules" cannot trump democracy, which calls for all votes to be counted in full for MI and FL as cast for Sen. Clinton. Obama should lose his FL votes because he campaigned in FL with TV advertising in violation of the "rules" and did nothing to help a revote. Obama should get no votes from MI because he voluntarily took his name off the ballot and he blocked a revote.

Obama camp calls for half votes

jordy68 — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:45:55 GMT

The Obama campaign called for half votes from Florida according to the primary vote. That would net Clinton 19 pledged delegates, something congressman Robert Wexler called a “concession.”

When asked by top Clinton aide Harold Ickes, also a member of the rules committee, how that would be a “concession,” Wexler shot back, pointing out passionately that those are the same number of delegates Clinton netted out of Ohio and Pennsylvania.

***************************************************
How is this a concession.. God is Ickes brain dead? It is a concession because the rules committee said that Fla would have EVERY SINGLE DELEGATE AND SUPER DELEGATE NOT COUNT 100% because they moved up their primary date. Hillary was fine with this and you, Mr. Ickes helped make these rules. So to now for Obama camp to offer an o.k. from their camp to a 50% count is definitely a concession.
Now what I do not quite understand yet, is exactly how moving the primary date up was done soley by Repubs in Fla.
Are they saying that at any time, (depending on whichever party is currently filling those positions in Fla goverment) a party in that position can, at will, change the other party's primaries around to mess with them? There is definitely info missing here. How DID this even get on the bill if Dems had nothing at all to do with it?