Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Wanna Know — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:54:51 GMT

Has anyone answered the question of how Senator Obama can receive any delegates seeing he didn't get any votes?

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Lana, California — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:58:31 GMT

So, Clinton supporters don't want to seat any non-committed delegates ergo disenfranchising voters for Obama because it is based on exit polls.

Will these same Clinton supports then renounce and condemn Clinton's surrogates in her campaign when they cite exit poll data to try and prove that Clinton is more electable than Obama? By the way, does Camp Clinton know that Obama now polls 13% ahead of her in California, a state SHE won and says that he can't win in the GE but she could?

Kudos to Bob Wexler....keep kicking around Ickes like a soccer ball!

Women for Obama.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Roemary Watkins, Greendale WI — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:58:55 GMT

Well, well, well. Now we're just down to the committee making things up as they go along. Or, did they find some rule in that little book of theirs that lets them do this, kind of like with 'Abortion is in the Constitution'? Listen, just do what the Republicans do. Count the votes, declare a winner, and move on.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Bobbi, Eau Claire, WI — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:00:03 GMT

How dare clinton supporters demand every vote in Michigan! She was the only name on the ballot! What happened to her fake empassiioned please for democracy?

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Bobbi, Eau Claire, WI — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:00:13 GMT

How dare clinton supporters demand every vote in Michigan! She was the only name on the ballot! What happened to her fake empassiioned please for democracy?

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Mighty Blogger, Seattle, Wash — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:00:45 GMT

It really sounds like the Clinton supporters want to continue this until the Convention.

Good grief Charley Brown!

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Flabbergasted in the Heartland — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:02:03 GMT

Wow...Hillary has a winner in Mr Ickes, doesn't she? After googling "fair reflection", I now understand why he didn't answer Mr. Wexler's question. Because then the American public (that would be us the voters) would really understand the machinations of her campaign. A 49 year old, hard working white woman who wants to rescind her Hillary vote.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Pat - Seattle — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:03:02 GMT

So far it sounds like one candidate is willing to compromise and the other isn't. Does that sound familiar to anyone?

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

BJ, CA — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:03:42 GMT

Pipe dreams ...and unpresidented...
exit polls data
who, where, when???

Let the rules stand and end of this bleeding heart crap

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Jeri McEwen, Hummelstown PA — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:03:46 GMT

Originally Clinton said her name would be removed from Michigan's ballot but then later said she'd missed the deadline by one day to remove it. If I remember correctly, she, Obama, Edwards, Todd,and others all MUTUALLY agreed to withdrawal their names! It seems really unfair that her underhandedness could net her anything!

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Mark, Northern MI — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:04:02 GMT

I'm at rather a loss to understand, or continue my association with, a party that would in any way penalize a candidate for deferring to, and abiding by, the rules of the Rules and Bylaws committee of said party. I am dismayed, but not surprised, that Harold Ickes took that tack that Barack Obama should in some way be penalized for removing his name from the ballot, and for not participating in the delegate selection process. To insinuate that apportioning the uncommitted delegates to Obama in some way "disenfranchises" the "uncommitted" "candidate", is ludicrous and obviously contrived. To further state that the committee has no jurisdiction to do so is again monumentally idiotic. As partisan as he is behaving, I don't really see how there is a reasonable expectation that this TOP adviser to the Clinton campaign would not be in a place to affect the decision in a malevolent way.

And please, MSNBC, LET US HEAR THE TESTIMONY. We want to hear the testimony of the representatives and THEN your analysis. We would rather not hear your analysis INSTEAD of the testimony. Otherwise, great job as always!

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Steve, California — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:06:24 GMT

Michigan's votes for uncommitted should be counted and go to uncommitted delegates. They can be seated at the convention in Denver and cast their ballots for the candidate of their choice then and there.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

donna — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:07:04 GMT

Hillary's toadies on the RBC, have the temerity to pontificate that Michigan's rogue, and undemocratic polling results, should stand, if we are to be fair to Hillary the Cheater turned Stalker.

But for the delicate situation we are in, regarding our need to unify, (yesterday for heaven's sake), I would love to see somebody step up, and give these unreasonable shills a good smacking down.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

LP, Maryland — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:07:59 GMT

PLEASE DO NOT INTERRUPT THE PROCEEDINGS - THERE IS ALL TIME LATER TO LISTEN TO THE ANALYSTS
Switched to CNN- Thanks!

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Eric, Salinas, CA — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:08:19 GMT

I've noticed how Harold Ickes is in campaign mode and trying to get everything for his candidate while giving nothing to Obama. I don't care if the Michigan split in delegates is 69-59 or 73-55, either would work for me. As long as this committee can achieve a decision today with a fair compromise for each candidate then this will be a good day for our party and a great object lesson in democracy that we can show the whole country and world.

Let's hope we celebrate not only a good decision today by this committee but also a perfect launch of the space shuttle Discovery!

Go Discovery!
Go Obama 08/12!

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Deborah Greenlawn, NY — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:09:47 GMT

Pffft. If FL will take full delegates but half vote and at least Sen. Obama was on the ballot, pretty nervy that MI wants full and he wasn't even on the ballot??
Halfsies or 50/50 full.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

reinadelaz — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:10:05 GMT

How does one go about letting Rev. Sharpton know of one's desire to be part of his suit on behalf of Florida voters? I did not change my registration to Democrat because Hillary and the DNC said our votes would not be counted. Obama 08

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

jdb133 — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:13:05 GMT

how is it that all the biased individuals (for both sides) are allowed to participate? ITs absolutely absurd.

The real question that has not been asked, Why are you such cowards that you cannot stand by your decision to disavow the vote? IT is really the cowardice of the board that is at issue.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

WW, NJ — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:13:35 GMT

I hope the Hillary Supporters remember that there are 'Other' people who 'DO NOT' support their candidate.

The rabid support of some of you seems to discount the fact that the there are those who disagree with you.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Virtus, Albany NY — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:13:51 GMT

Since Ickes, Flournoy, Kamarck and Joyner seem to only care about what's good for Hillary Clinton, Lets hope the other 26 members of the committe can stop and realize that the State of MI itself is offering a compromise to seat its delegates.

It's funny how the Clinton camp has been going on and on about seating the MI and FL delegates but reject the plans of the People themselves. Wake up MI and FL this isn't about you! It's about Hillary Clinton, you're being manipulated and used. They won't be happy unless they get everything they want, and they'll keep throwing rocks at the beehive until they get their way.

Lets try logic for a change. But honestly from the responses of the Clinton 4 it really makes me wonder if this committee meeting is just a puppet show. Why bother with the fake presentation of cases and oral arguments if your minds are already made up? Make a decision and make it public and then live with the consequences.

This is a complex situation that obviously requires some kind of compromise, but the Clinton camp keeps acting as if it is a democratic principle with only one correct solution (convenient that it is the one that benefits her the most).

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Roofin Reality, Houston, Tx. — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:14:59 GMT

Tina and Elaine, way to fight for your candidate.
But in the end, let's be fair. After all, if you were on the other team, you'd be arguing that it's totally unfair (and some on this blog would say sexist. Cue Geraldine Ferraro).

But somewhere in between those two is the right answer and let's hope you folks get this figured out in the next couple of hours.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Walt, San Antonio TX — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:15:03 GMT

Great. A solution that makes Michigan happy and p**ses off Clinton folks, who come off looking greedy and unreasonable. No longer can they claim to be "standing up" for Michigan Democrats - their motives are now completely transparent.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

GardenParty, NC — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:16:14 GMT

I have one question for the Clinton supporters, and I'm sure that you have a valid answer. I really would appreciate your honest answers and feedback on this. Why didn't Senator Clinton raise this as an issue when it actually happened months ago? (Ok, three questions).....and what ABOUT caucus states? Why don't "every one" of those votes count? Please, any of you, PLEASE explain. I'm trying hard to understand. I'm serious. I really want to know your thoughts. Thanks

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Jeri McEwen — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:17:42 GMT

Hartina Flournoy just said that deciding the delegates, and not going strictly by the vote, was unfair. It was saying to a voter that someone else could decide how to count your vote. I wish the speaker would have told her that the voters were already told their votes didn't count! Let's use her argument to say none of the votes should count then, that's it, done!

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Terry, IN — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:18:11 GMT

Mark. Please comment on this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/m.s.-bellows/the-trap-clintons-briarpa_b_104198.html

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

julie larsen, zurich switzerland — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:19:02 GMT

why are we not able to watch the live coverage of the democratic committee meeting on florida and michigan?? it says all over the nbc website 'watch live coverage' and then the video says 'due to restrictions we are unable to provide this video'. is there a reason for this? will we not be able to watch now? i am living abroad so i can not watch it on normal tv.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Geoff in Brooklyn — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:19:09 GMT

It is worth noting that whether the committee adopts the Levin proposal or whether they seat in accordance with the primary (but with 50% power) makes very little difference. Hilary nets either 10 (Levin proposal) or 9 (seat all at 50%) delegates.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Rodney Thomas — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:19:33 GMT

The Democrats are so cavalier with their peoples votes. Just like they are with their tax money.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Dr B, Phoenix, AZ — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:21:04 GMT

The Hillary supporters who are trying to cite precedence re: uncommitted votes staying as uncommitteds need to cede the fact that (I'd wager) there was NO OTHER circumstance in which a full range of voting options was not reflected. If everyone is on the ballot, then, yes, uncommitteds can be apportioned according to the fair reflection concept. There is no way to do that when only Hillary is on the ballot. If you want to do some extrapolation of the fair reflection concept, you'd have to note that 40% of the voting populace went out of their way, when told their votes wouldn't count, to vote AGAINST Hillary and by that understanding are not likely to want her to gain everything from MI and Obama (or even Edwards and Obama) gains nothing. It's not realistic, it's not democratic and it's disingenuous to suggest that those 40% of voters really wanted to choose uncommitted as opposed to a non-Clinton name which did not appear.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Stacey — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:22:01 GMT

Why do all of the pundits continue to state that Senator Clinton won MI. I just read another AP article on MSN's website reiterating that point. Is the truth just too complicated to explain. No wonder Americans believe there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, that we would be treated as liberators, that Bush shares their values, that Republicans are stronger on issues of defense, that Clinton is the friend of working class Americans, that Obama is a muslim.
Is this what a free press looks like. If so I'm not sure its worth fighting for. Maybe they should hire some elitists aka wee-educated people who are capable and comfortable talking truthfully about nuanced issues rather than writing tabloid-like pieces.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Bonnie, Ut — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:22:12 GMT

I've enjoyed watching every one. The thing that disturbs me most is that the committee takes little responsibilty for this mess. Voters and candidates thought the rules were fixed, they proceeded on that asumption. Now the commitee is acting like...we didn't tell anyone to stay home...and we didn't tell anyone to not put their name on the ballot. They want to throw the blame back on the voters and candidates instead of assuming responsibility for what they did. I suspect they are going to give Clinton everything she wants.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

RENEA,PLYMOUTH,MI — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:22:43 GMT

I LIVE IN MICHIGAN.THERE IS NO FAIR WAY TO SEAT OUR DELEGATES EXCEPT TO SPLIT THEM 50/50.WHEN ALL THE CANDIDATES WERE NOT ON THE BALLOT AND ONLY 7% OF THE STATE DEMOCRATICS SHOWED UP TO VOTE HOW IN THE WORLD CAN ANYONE IN THERE RIGHT MIND CALL IT A LEGAL PRIMARY?

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Deborah Greenlawn, NY — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:23:03 GMT

Chuck's been watching and telling us about that large,
ticking bomb of supers in CALIFORNIA, right?
We all know how Nancy Pelosi (CA) feels about all of this.
Think it will detonate any time really soon?

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

L Brown — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:26:11 GMT

Hilary's people are smart but as usual unreasonable.
There was no allowed primary. Hillary agreed with the original. They are saying now it makes a different whether there were names on the ballot. It makes no difference. There is absolutly no way to change rules after the fact and makes absolutely no difference what the results were. The determination based on the outcome of the primary should make no differnce. There was no primary and I guess no legal primary if they agreed as they did that it would not count. I was wondering if there were written agreements signed by the canidates that it would not count. Nothing matters since ther was no primary. IT matters not how any voter voted. There was no primary agreed by all.
Mute points by the Clintons. And to go back and not regconize caucus's. Try in 2012 to change all this!!
Now if the DNC wants to now forgive and seat delegates, then I believe they can, But the rules and understandings of the original primary were clear to all and agreed by all.
THERE IS ONLY ONE FAIR WAY NOW AND THE MICHIGAN DELEGATION SHOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR EVEN BEING SEATED AFTER THEY IGNORED THE RULES. There could have been a legimate primary if Michigan had respected the DNC.
Seat 100% but only one fair way. 50%-50%

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Linda, AR — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:27:43 GMT

It is very seeze that the Clinton campiagn wont to sit Michigan delegates 73/52. The fair way to honor Mich. delegates is 50/50 because as Sen.Levin stated, "the process was flawed.

Can someone please explan to me why Harold Ickes gets to question the repesentatives that are representing each canidate?

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Waverlye , Clinton Maryland — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:28:30 GMT

It make sense to me that since Barrack Obama's name was not on the ballot and he follow the rules and Michigan knew that they would be punish for moving their primary, how can they now even suggest that all delegates should be seated with a split of 69/59 favoring Clinton. It should be an even split if any. If not, where is the punishment what president is this to be setting for future Primaries. Maybe every state can choose to move their primary whenever they like.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Bill Humphreys — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:28:57 GMT

A decision was made that if a "vote" were held prior to February 5th in either Michigan or Florida, the result of that voting "event" WOULD NOT COUNT in the determination of the Democratic nominee for President. That decision, and the resulting reality that neither the delegates from Michigan or Florida will be seated at the Democratic National Convention, (and however much the voters of either State may feel disenfranchised by the decision of the DNC) should stand COMPLETELY, with no attempt to undo or redo or reguess, or whatever you want to call the fiasco that is now unfolding in front of a national audience,be pursued IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

Agonizing over "how to make sure the voters of both states are recognized, honored and respected" is now a mute issue, and a misshapened attempt to "undo the past", an effort that will surely result in greater, not less, division in the Democratic Party. The decision has been made, one made in clear violation of the clear rules of the DNC, that neither "event" would count should a 'vote" be held prior to February 5. That decision should be final - simple.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Raphael, Lawrenceville, VA — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:29:44 GMT

Wow, the DNC makes up its rules, then decides not to apply them in order to set a precedent for future presidential elections. The DNC is like an irresponsible father that makes up rules but doesn't apply them. I don't think Florida or Michigan delegates should be seated when everyone knew the vote was bogus. Shame on the DNC for making up rules and changing them. That's like playing a game of Monopoly and then changing the rules in the middle of the game. You can't enfranchise voters who participated in primaries and who didn't follow the rules. I guess the DNC believes in democracy without rules. The only people who profit from this sideshow are the Clinton supporters.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

patrick,califorina — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:31:54 GMT

I think its a fair solution especially one that will allow us to move on to Democratic unity.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Mark, Seattle — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:32:43 GMT

Just watching the comments from the Clinton camp so far. And I'm wondering how Hillary Clinton is going to have a political career after this. Her surrogates have parsed so many excuses, technicalities, and emotional pleas that are clearly directed at her passionate base.

She's not going to get the nomination for President, and she's burning every bridge in the process. What little clout she had in the Senate will be gone after this. This leaves her two choices: 1) Labor quietly in the Senate for many years hoping to rebuild credibility--which doesn't sound like her style. Or 2) Leave the Senate and claim it was part of her plan all along.

Either way, her position as a major player in national politics is over after this.

If any Clinton supporters disagree, please feel free to generously use exclaimation points and ALL CAPS in your rebuttal.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Robin, Detroit, Mi — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:32:48 GMT

The hillary logic disenfranchises all of the dem voters in Michigan who did not support Hillary....Her supporters should be ashamed to be so brazen

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

JDB133 — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:37:30 GMT

Of additional note related to FL. Should all 14% of the Edwars Delegates vote Obama HRC's gain is 5 or 6 delegates out of FL after halving the total.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

40 years in the DemNPL — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:38:27 GMT

Exit polls have not been shown to be unreliable in the past. They are used world-wide to judge the fairness of elections. The people of the Ukraine protested a stolen election, based on exit poll information, until the government fell. The fact that the Bush-supporting computers in Ohio in 2004 and the cheating in Florida in 2000 led to results different from the exit polls doesn't mean the polls were flawed ... it is more likely that the election results were flawed. There is no survey question more easily answered accurately than, who did you just vote for for President? Karl Rove is a criminal genius ... when the exit polls showed Bush losing Florida while brother Jeb was delivering the state through cheating, Rove used it to beat the networks into submission and they have since hesitated to report exit polls that vary from the reported vote,setting the stage for their theft of the 2004 election. Brilliant.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

John S., Dansville, MI — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:40:19 GMT

These Clinton supporters are laughable human beings. As a MI resident who couldn't vote for my candidate (Edwards, at the time), how dare they suggest "all votes be counted".

What about MY vote, you selfish twits? All Clinton wants to count is the votes for her, which she agreed last fall would be discounted as part of the penalty.

What a horrible human being she is, and what a waste of space on this planet her so-called supporters are: Republicans in disguise.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Marty, Idaho — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:45:41 GMT

Changing the rules in the fourth quarter after the two minute warning is far from "fair" no matter how you slice it. And, despite the sunny disposition of some, unifying the democratic party is a dream at this point.

I only hope that you democrats follow the advice of the DNC and get it together as best you can and very soon. This endless and useless bickering has to stop because you are losing us independent voters that you tried so hard to win over.

By the way, I went through a 4-hour democratic caucus process to cast my vote in February...but apparently caucus state voters don't matter in this primary, only Florida and Michigan voters, so it's a mute point.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

CC, Seattle, WA. — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:46:07 GMT

Can someone tell me why MSNBC keeps saying that Clinton will be ahead in the popular vote after all this wraps up? Doesn't that mean we would be excluding or "disenfranchising" the Caucus states?

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Obama for President — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:47:48 GMT

Sounds like only 50% of the delegation will be seated in MI. Hope so!

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Stephanye Houston, Texas — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:52:04 GMT

Clinton supporters are again disillusioned by power. They have no regard for what is fair overall. Anything other than not seating any delegates from Michigan is right! The rules are the rules. Now, who cares what the DNC says. They are all bark and no bite.

I wouldn't be surprised if Clinton had agreed to take her name off the ballot initially then changed her mind, to be the only name on the ballot and get more votes. These people want to rule the country!!! Can people honestly say that people that would say ANYTHING or do ANYTHING should be in such a position?

I wouldn't give her anything! She is tenacious but so are roaches. I don't want to share anything with them either.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Beverly in Chicago — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:53:39 GMT

Since there is no fair way to a flawed MI primary; it is fair for 64-64 split. Simply because HRC is not a fair nominee by saying uncommitted is a fair ZERO. Her campaign is not fair to honor a voluntary signed pledge, renege, excite your base; then turn around and blame your opponent f or playing fairly.
She can’t have it all.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Chris Hastings, Seattle, WA — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:55:47 GMT

CAN HILLARY CREATE A NEW POLITICAL PARTY TO REPRESENT THE WOMEN AND WORKING CLASS IN THE GENERAL ELECTION? MILLIONS OF VOTERS HOPE SO.
The DNC has made it clear that they have a nominee that represents blacks and college kids and that they don't care about women and working class voters. Obama's supporters have made that abundantly clear in their comments to these blogs. What hasn't yet dawned on women and working folks is that the democratic party no longer represents their interests - which means a new political party has splintered off from the democrats - a working class and women party to be exact. Hillary Clinton represents that constituency. Since the democrats will not be able to convince these voters - the ones that Obama has blatantly and consistently insulted - to accept the lesser of 2 evils - McCain vs. Obama - they will either change parties or vote for the lesser of 2 evils - McCain. The DNC has forced a split in the party - by its reckless disregard for women and working class voters - thank God Hillary is there to represent them.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

BJ,CA — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:56:44 GMT

That kills the notion that anything but delegates matters..
Is any one else reading this too?

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Chiara — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:57:22 GMT

For goodness sake, can someone please explain to me how Clinton can be ahead in the popular vote if caucus states are not represented in that tally?

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Steve — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:58:26 GMT

If any one reads this that's not bias, here is an independents view:

Clinton and Obama made two different decisions with regard to Michigan.

Clinton said the right things to appease the DNC but kept her name on the ballot as a way to reach out to the PEOPLE of Michigan.

Obama chose to be a strict Democrat and appease the DNC.

Both were strategic decisions.

This hearing is breaking down to people or the DNC. Obama should have kept his name on the ballot.

So, which is more important? Obviously the DNC based on the hearing.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Byron Cooper, Detroit, Michigan — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:06:18 GMT

This is appalling. We live in Michigan. My wife voted early by absentee ballot and wrote in Obama. Then we were told that write-ins would not be counted. On election day, I did not vote because I did not want Clinton, the only choice on the ballot. I could have voted "uncommitted" but there was no indication of what the "uncommitted" delegates would do -- nothing? Or could they get behind Clinton or Obama or Edwards? But I thought it did not matter since nothing would count anyway, with the violation of nat'l party rules by the state party. Now this idiotic rules committee is rewriting the rules and trying to guess how my wife and I would have voted under a different set of rules. Is this fair? Is the Democratic party, by changing the rules in the middle of the game and by creating "superdelegates" trying to restore the "smoke filled room" approach to nominations?

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Dave H — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:12:55 GMT

That Hillary can say with a straight face that Michigan voters for Obama should be shut out is beyond belief. This was deliberate from the get go from the day she "forgot" to remove her name from the ballot.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Michelle, West Virginia — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:23:19 GMT

TO ALL MY SISTERS WHO ARE HILLARY SUPPORTERS:

I feel for you…you are getting the short end of the stick, but you can do something to stop this and destroy the Democratic Party for ever:

You can help this COUNTRY’S SHAME…for the past 40 years we have become a country of SIN.

Obama will be your nominee and he may be a great President…my daughter thinks so, but she is just a child of 23, so help us help this country.

Stay home in November or vote for John McCain a true American Hero.

John McCain will appoint 1, maybe 2 Supreme Court Justices who will help overturn the laws of this Nation, which have allowed us to be a Nation of Sin over-run by homosexuals.

We can overturn ROE v WADE and they away the rights of those who sin in the eyes of God.

We can reclaim this Country.

This is what the Clintons would want.

No more abortions…no more sin…no more the killing of the innocent…no more culture of homosexuals.

You are mothers and you know this is the true path for all.

We are now forever united…us who believe in the word of the Lord and have made it our mission to save innocent lives and you the champions of women’s rights in this country.

As a team we can not be defeated.

My Pastor said this day will come, never thought it would because of your help...THANK YOU...THANK YOU

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

Pat Schock, Ann Arbor, MI — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:27:21 GMT

I am a Michigan activist and Obama supporter.
Here is my view of the choice we saw in advance of the January primary.

1. Several candidates were active.

2. Obama and Edwards had withdrawn their names. We understood this was to cooperate with the signed agreement with the national Democratic party.

3. Clinton's name was left on the ballot.
The only reason I saw for this was that she believed she owned the Democratic Party. This is backed up by the support of Granholm, Stabenow and Levin for Clinton. Clearly, in previous years, we who now support Obama were distributed throughout the Michigan Party or alienated from it. Clinton loyalists have heavily controlled our local machinery.

4. In the days preceding the election, Obama workers could only organize around voting "Uncommitted."
MI law says that write-in candidates must agree in writing for their names to be on the ballot.
Our task in stimulating the Uncommitted vote for Obama then became: Explain: A vote for Obama must be a vote Uncommitted. But if you write his name in, your ballot will be thrown away. Some MI voters are new citizens and don't share our history of the primary-to-election process. Some voters gave up at this point.

5. Michigan likes mavericks. The open primary would have allowed independent and Republican voters to support Obama. By design or accident, Michigan's Democratic machinery put these supporters on a desert island. What picture of my party do I show if I ask a Republican to cross over and then tell them to vote "uncommitted" to choose my candidate?
Some fair-minded Republicans lose their willingness to consider an unfamiliar candidate at this point.

Michigan has many people at a high-school education level who struggle with survival issues. Voting for Obama took a lot of layers of focus and attention.
Many people were wondering how to vote for him. Rulings came down at the last minute. The media had little background. Clerks answered questions to the best of their ability. However, people in the electorate did not get the level of shared knowledge that they need to make informed decisions.

In summary, Clinton would have only thin evidence that Michigan voters support her as a unit.

Sincerely,

Pat Schock

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

nuanced — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:35:48 GMT

Exit polls are highly reliable except when there has been hanky panky in the vote count. Just look at the Ohio exit polls in 2004 and Florida exit polls in 2000.

Michigan's 69-59 proposal

hopefull, bluffton,indiana — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:47:57 GMT

I have watched the Michigan debate and the states solution of 69 59 is the deal because this is the state of Michigan s total. Nobody outside Michigan can decide this. It's over; deal done.