http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx The New York Times says the shooting tragedy -- and the way the guns used in it were purchased -- “has prompted calls from several Democrats and at least one leading presidential candidate, John Edwards, for measures to restrict gun sales, even as theyen-USCommunityServer 2.0 (Build: 60608.1)http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#155936Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:59:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:155936JIrby, Colorado SpringsAs a gun owner, [I have a Sig P228 that would look at home in the Smithsonian], I believe I would be willing to turn in my weapon and become a peacenik if the media would kindly refrain from running school shootings well past their expiration dates. As of this minute, we know everything about the shooting except A: Whether the shooter was a cat person or a dog person. B: Whether the shooter's belly button was an inny or an outie. C: If the shooter was a metrosexual. If the media will quickly answer those three remaining questions, we can all get back to wondering why the media refuses to keep us informed on important matters like whether this administration plans to let Halliburton walk off with that 2.8 billion they stole, which including interest, should now amount to about 5.6 billion. Also, I find it curious that since thirty-three dead is an average day in Iraq, and the only recognition the soldiers who have been killed ever get is a minute of silence while their photos are run, why the media does not give the 3300 dead in Iraq a hundred times the coverage of those killed in the school shooting. So far, that would amount to four hundred days of wall to wall coverage. This is just another way of saying that I've had enough of the media's experiment in mass murder as mass entertainment. What the media doesn't seem to understand is that all their attempts to appear concerned and compassionate end up looking smarmy and phony. Please get yesterday's entertainment section out of my face.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#155995Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:27:11 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:155995Flat-earther, GeorgiaAmen to that post. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156023Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:43:56 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156023Bob, OrlandoAmen JIrby!!!!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156126Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:14:45 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156126Dave, TnTemplate media question "Was he a gun enthusiast?" The answer should have been no he was a Liberal propaganda, blame America, I'm a victim, envy the rich, blame religion enthusiast" http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156166Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:37:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156166Nick, OhioIt is the media's job to keep the general public informed, to act as the public's link to information, to be our advocate in challenging the govt. The US (and, the world, for the most part) has become too violent. We don't react anymore to the horrors of mass murders as we've seen it on TV way too much over the years. We have violent video games, people over-reacting on blogs and all we have to show for it is the numbing feeling we have which doesn't necessarily bother us anymore. So, it's not necessarily the media's fault as they are reporting these extraordinary and horrific events, attempting to give us the information we need. As for the use of guns in this event, we continue to avoid the real issue of gun ownership and the reasons why people own guns. Collectors and sportspeople, even though I don't believe in owning a gun myself (it's only use, in my mind, is to kill), should probably have a right to own them (within common sense and reason). I have a problem allowing guns to the general public, withour severe checks, penalties and rules. Gun shows and the like are avoiding the laws in many states, as are private sales, if there are laws to avoid. Sure, we have the 2nd Amendment, but how can that be the most important amendment that (seemingly , to the NRA) trumps all the rest? Guns don't keep us safe, we have no need for a militia, we don't need guns to rise up against tyrrany. The most important Amendment to the Constitution is the 1st. Freedom of expression provides the ability to speak up against your corrupt or tyrranical govt. without retribution. However, it is the violence which guns represent that makes this issue so horrid in my eyes. I am saddened by the whole story almost to the point of saturation. However, being a parent of a college student and one almost on the way to college, I can certainly feel a sense of anguish and sympathize with the parents and families of all who were killed, even the perpetrator's parents. We need to be shocked and saddened by it all. We need to be aware. We need to attempt to do whatever it takes to not allow such a heinous situation to occur again (although, it probably will). May we someday all live in peace.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156262Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:29:12 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156262Jim, Santa CruzRight on JIrby - Unfortunately it's the same stupid American public that voted in el presidente that these media blitzes cater to and that advertisers pay for face time.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156281Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:36:23 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156281Sandy, ATL, GAUnder the federal assault-weapons ban enacted in 1994, magazines were limited to 10 rounds. But that ban was allowed to expire in 2004. Maybe we can work to get it re-enacted?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156311Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:49:52 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156311Mary, Eugene, ORI don't own a gun, probably never will but I have a son who does. He is very responsible and uses a gun safe. A total ban on guns in this country won't keep murders from happening with guns. If someone really wants one, he (or she) can get one. I do believe that there should be laws that make it harder to obtain one. Most states have those laws. Unfortunately, one cannot legislate behavior that might lead to tragedies such as this one.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156387Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:29:04 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156387Unkown Person Blytheville ArkI am sorry that it happen to a the student and the school staff in time not so good time my pray or with my famliy member and school staff i hope that soon the school will get some answer about http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156389Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:29:36 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156389Russell in MarylandYou are right Dave, that was not the right question. The media should have asked "do guns make angry rampages more lethal." http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156450Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:55:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156450ConnieDave; A better question would have been: Are you a Southern RedNeck??http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156509Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:39:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156509Al, KSAny other product, a car or baby crib or tainted spinach, that caused even a few deaths, would be recalled and regulated to the hilt. Guns kill 30,000 people in this country each year. Why can't we have this discussion to regulate at least those guns that have no other purpose except to kill people? Surely as a country, we can come to a consensis about reasonable gun control...reasonable ammunition and clip capacity? Reasonable and thorough background checks? Until we have the discussion, the killing will go on and on.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156513Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:41:14 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156513Stephen in NCRussell, right on. And the answer is, "Yes, they do." Also, the attitude in this country towards guns fosters the sense among many young people that it is an acceptable response to being wronged, to pick up a gun and shoot somebody.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156520Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:44:23 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156520Dorothy"There's no place that I'd rather be than right here, with my red neck, white socks and Blue Ribbon beer..."--Country song whose artist I forgothttp://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156563Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:07:01 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156563Robert Catalano, Salem, ORI used to be an advocate for strict control but have become the opposite with the loss of many of our freedoms over the past few years. However, I wonder how many this kid could have killed if he had to use a knife instead of a gun? Having said that, I think blaming the shooting on a gun is like blaming a bee for causing someone to die from anaphylactic shock. Sure, they are ralted but the right conditions had to be in order for the event to happen. Seems to me we should be looking at the conditions in which the shooting occurred rather than the shooting itself. There were quite a few red flags with the shooter which were either ignored and/or not acted upon. Maybe, herein lies the blame rather than on an inantimate object like a gun.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156611Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:29:49 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156611Dorothy"Red Neck Woman"--Gretchen Wilsonhttp://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156613Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:29:57 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156613Bob, OrlandoI have seen pictures of the media and cameras staking out the assailant's parents residence. Obviously we would be interested in their take on the tragedy but wouldn't you think that these people are devestated by what has occurred and are suffering in a way that would be almost impossible to imagine. The media needs to back off and give them some privacy. They will speak when and if they feel they should. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156629Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:43:28 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156629HoustonTragedies like the Virginia Tech massacre are the price society pays for the "right" of easy access to unlimited fire power, which seems to be the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment favored by the current administration and the voters who put them in power. Too many people buy the false dichotomy promoted by the likes of Patrick Buchanan that it's a choice between an absolute right to weapons of any sort or "they come to take your guns away." As technology improves and gun laws become ever more lax, even worse can be expected as a routine part of daily life in America.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156646Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:54:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156646Dave, TnConnie the answer to that question would depend on your answer to this one. Would being a Southern RedNeck be enough justification in your mind to take away my right to defend myself?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156652Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:59:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156652Lucas Sarkisian, Binghamton, New YorkWith all of the school shooting in the last 15 years or so that are not gang related, all the shooters were on prescription medication because some grade school teacher decided they were to figitty or disruptive, and the school administration made the parents go to a pill pushing Doctor or face having Child Protective Services remove the boy from the parents. The teacher got a drooling zombie in the place of a normal energetic boy. That some end up killing themselves years down the line wasn't their concern. But some decide not to go down alone, and gun free schools become free fire zones. Is Virginia Tech the latest killing ground where a boy drugged into a zombie became a psychopath when he grew up? AS for controling or banning certain catagories of firearms, in as much as soldiers deploying to Iraq and Afghanistan are having to go out to gun stores to buy guns and ammunition because of the continuing shortage of rifles and ammunition that has been evident since 2003 but has yet to be addressed by either President Bush or Congress. This is the gun problem that needs to be addressed, since WWII ammunition for the .50 caliber machine guns is not going to last forever. Start banning guns and criminals will simply start killing police men and women to get them.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156656Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:03:36 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156656Dave, TnJust heard a news blurb on the radio that NBC has received a manifesto from the shooter. Have Y'all done a head count lately to see if any of the regular left wing posters are messing? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156695Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:30:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156695JIrby, Colorado SpringsAl, Ks - Every year, 438,000 people die from the effects of tobacco. That is one death in five. Nothing else even comes close. The govt was in the amen corner when states sued the tobacco companies to recoup what they had spent on tobacco related illnesses and to pay for future health care issues that would be caused by smoking. Like the govt hasn't known for the past seventy years that cigs will kill you! Twenty percent of all deaths. But tobacco is still here. The tobacco lobbyists pay the government for the privilege of staying around. The govt required the tobac cos to run commercials that would be aimed at discouraging young people to begin smoking, because people start smoking when they are young and stupid and can't quit when they are older and smarter. I've personally seen maybe six of these commercials in the past eight years. The tobacco companies recently increased the nicotine, (the addictive agent), by 10 to 20 percent to protect themselves from newer methods that have come out to wean people off cigarettes. I don't hear anybody squealing about the tobacco companies. How come that is? Maybe you know, Dave, Tn. You seem to be the wise old bird on this blog. Why don't we hear anything about the tobacco companies, anti-gun folks? I'm listening. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156713Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:41:52 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156713JIrby, Colorado SpringsAbout 30000 deaths yearly are caused by guns. Fourteen times that are killed by smoking. Oh, and Dave, in answer to your question - "Would being a Southern RedNeck be enough justification in your mind to take away my right to defend myself?" Maybe, but I would much prefer that you were consigned to a reservation in Outer Mongolia, where you would be relieved of your ability to reproduce. And that would include Northern, Eastern and Western rednecks. I personally don't make a distinction.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156760Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:07:00 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156760mm, maSince all the criminals have a gun, its time that everyone starts owning one. And lets not forget to pack a gun alongwith the lunch bag while sending our children to schools.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#156912Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:35:07 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:156912Robert Catalano, Salem, ORWithout making a comment on gun control or lack of it, I wonder how many kids he would have killed if only a knife had been available?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#157189Thu, 19 Apr 2007 02:57:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:157189Jane, Southern MississippiDave, he was just crazy. Period.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#157194Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:01:07 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:157194Jane, Southern MississippiDorothy, it was the great Merle Haggard. I war born a a red-necked, coon-assed catcus jumper, and am proud of it.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#157326Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:34:20 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:157326JIrby, Colorado SpringsI really don't like repeating myself, but if guns had never been invented, humans would be slightly below chimps on the food chain. Try going after one with your bare hands and you will end up a human vegetable. Even the bow and arrow wouldn't close that gap much. A chimp is something like five times stronger than a human pound for pound. And you are not Jane Goodall. In the real world, Cheetah would be the hero and Tarzan his sidekick. Firearms allow humans to be compassionate about lower vertebrates, and give us the power to push for saving the grizzly, which is a hell of a lot more than the griz would do for us if the tables were turned. Without firearms, America would still belong to the Indians. We couldn't have taken them on their own turf without that technology. There's really no way of knowing how humans would have fared against the lower beasts without firearms, but having firearms affords us the luxury of contemplating it rather than being stuck living it. I am just assuming that the anti-gun people would feel okay about the bow and arrow, or am I assuming too much?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#157774Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:04:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:157774JIm, Santa CruzJIrby - sounds similar to the argument of why we needed the atom bomb.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#157951Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:58:40 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:157951Al, KSJirby-and your point is what? It's OK that 30,000 people die from guns because of tobacco? Sounds like "bait and switch" to me. But hey, I'm flexible. Let's just say that if you smoke, you can't have a gun...works for me.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#158074Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:24:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:158074JIrby, Colorado SpringsI don't know how you figure, JIm. You impress me as someone who arrived at your position without having read Marshall McLuhan, (The Medium is the Message). You don't get to where we are now by skipping over inventions that led us here. The invention of gunpowder ended the age of feudalism and ushered in modern warfare and the industrial age. You have to take the good with the bad. Any society who has put men on the Moon and robotics on Mars don't get there by skipping over firearms. You don't jump from the bow and arrow to space travel. You don't go directly from the agricultural age to the information age. And you don't take out my argument with a one-liner. If you wish to make an argument, then make one, but you have offered up the argument of why we needed the a-bomb. Tell me about that argument and who made it. I'm not familiar with it. Was it the Amish? It sounds like something from the mouth of a luddite. I would like to go back to the days before the a-bomb, but that puts you in the position of the Islamic states. You sure as heck don't get to the future by skipping over a-bombs. That's a situation where you can't get there from here. Any society who invents computers knows how to make firearms and probably a-bombs. And will do it-not skip over them for the sake of a lovely pastoral and peaceful co-existence with others. Natural selection is competition driven, and that guarantees against a society knowing how to make firearms but not making them.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#158115Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:31:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:158115DesmondI would like to see more discussion on the issue of mental health.People who are diagnosed with mental health problems often feel ashamed of their diagnoses as do their families.Some do not seek treatment becuase of this feeling of shame. Some do not seek help because they cannot afford it. I am in no way condoning what this man did but I find it troubling that reporters are calling him a mad man . I am afraid others will not seek the help they may need in fear of being labelled the same way.As for the gun control issue, we've had this discussion many times. It always ends up the same way. I don't see it changing this time either.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#158229Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:50:05 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:158229JIrby, Colorado SpringsAl,KS, i don't know where you dredged up your inane argument. You said that any product, blah,blah,blah, would be recalled and regulated to the hilt. I responded that the one product that causes far and away more deaths than any other has not been recalled and is not regulated to the hilt, in fact, is not regulated. As soon as better ways of breaking the nicotane habit were discovered, the tobacco companies increased nicotine levels that made these new ways obsolete. I'm not saying because of that it's okay for 30000 to die from firearms, although huge numbers of firearms deaths are gang and drug related, which deaths are okay by me. You have disfunctional members of society illiminating each other, like members of the Mafia killed each other off. Have at it. They have my permission. What I will say is that firearms are not going to be regulated, 30000 or no 30000. So give me some facts about how tobbaco is being recalled and regulated. It is not. Period. That's all I'm saying. You have no argument. Same goes for firearms. If they malfunction, they are recalled, but few malfunction. Oh, and by the way, about twelve years ago, Texas adopted the concealed carry permit. Since that time, only one man has used his concealed carry to kill someone. It was a traffic squabble. The one guy got out of his car and came over and swatted the guy in the face who was still in his car. The guy shot him and had his case dismissed in about two weeks. You are safer in your home and in your car because thieves and robbers don't know who has guns. The fact that you might have one offers a level of protection to you. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#160090Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:53:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:160090Hfinney Philadelphia PaOh my the Indians would still have rights in America if we hadn't run them off with guns. What a thought.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#160955Fri, 20 Apr 2007 06:39:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:160955JIrby, Hfinney - no, would own America. I notice you are able to read, so maybe you can grok that. Good if you're an Indian, bad if you're and Angelo. If you're mixed, who knows. If you're a Bush voting moron, it makes no difference.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/18/155765.aspx#161357Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:23:49 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:161357OliviaI'm with Desmond--there should be more discussion on mental health. The media's portrayal of the gunman as a "mad man" adds to the stigma experienced by those who are mentally ill.