http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx From Elizabeth Wilner, Mark Murray, Huma Zaidi, and Jennifer ColbyCongress remains out for another week while Bush engages in some high-stakes negotiations abroad, first at the NATO summit in Latvia and then in Jordan at his meeting with Iraqi Primeen-USCommunityServer 2.0 (Build: 60608.1)http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15800Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:49:41 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15800DJLClearly some Iraqis are fighting each other. It's not the US who's kidnapping, torturing, and killing people and dumping their bodies. Civil war or no, there is little the US can do about it if even the local police are implicated or stand idly by.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15803Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:57:12 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15803George, Denton, TxIt seems clear to me the Iraqis are fighting each other and its based on religious beliefs. Call it what you want, I believe this has been going on for centuries, but the US acted on Misinformation, Miscalculation, or misplaced belief that we would come out as heros uncorked this vast resivoir of hatered toward one another and it won't go away. Our presence there is not making it better and there seems to be no way out. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15811Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:47:46 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15811Desmond the administration wants to avoid calling what is happening in Iraq a cicil war, because, if it gets labelled as such, it means we lost. So, I do not see this administration doing anything other than "stay the course" for the duration of their term. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15822Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:43:19 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15822Olivia Elizabeth Burdon, Peoria, Ill.Whether he's denying that Iraq has fallen into a civil war or that New Orleans, the Mississippi Gulf Coast, and the rest of the storm zone need more than $110 billion to recover from Katrina, President Bush is clearly "Cleopatra, the Queen of Denial...."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15825Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:47:44 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15825Olivia's Better SideGood one Olivia Burdon...NOThttp://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15826Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:52:55 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15826Barbara, Dallas TXHow many weeks/days off do the members of Congress get? Is it my imagination? They always seem to be on some type of holiday. Why can't they work like the rest of us. Granted they need to check in with their constituants periodically, but they do not need so many days off. If the rest of us worker bees and grunts had the same number of days off, the economy would be worse than it already is. Don't "we" the employers of these people deserve representatives that actually represent us?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15828Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:56:56 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15828Mark Thieme, Daly City, CASix years of "executive" incompetence has begotten the present "executive" incontinence. The White House can call the current Iraqi cataclysm whatever new word they can coin, or they may simply redefine an old word. Whatever creative appellation they may invent, where I come from, the common term for the neurotic combination of nightmares and loss of control was "wetting the bed."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15830Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:18:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15830John Roche, Atlanta GAI hope you liberals now see that we are less safe because democrats are in power. Iraq was just fine a month ago. You people just empowered the Sunnis with your vote.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15833Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:39:15 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15833An American, El Paso TXCongressional perks are written by Congress. Go figure. I wish I could write and approve my benefits package at work. As for Iraq- as a moderate- I call it a civil war, when one group of Iraqis is killing another group of Iraqis. The Iraqis need to grab the belts and drive the forigien insurgnts from thier country, then rein in the gangs or militas. Otherwise, the Sadr milita will become like Hizbollah and rule w/o legal fiat in an unstable land. We Westerners have no place trying to dictate peace; we need to pull back to protect the innocents from the violence and lend a hand were asked.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15836Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:50:18 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15836An American, El Paso, TXWe are less safe if we allow the exttreme members of either party carte blanche, for these idealists do not deal in realities. The progressives, the moderates and the social conservatives need to bind together for fiscal control, an intelligent, workable domestic policy plan thsat benefits all Americans and not the select few favorites and to rein in a sadly misguided belief that the United States will club your country to oblivion if one disagrees with our global economic and security ideals and policies. moderation, not extremism can solve many issues. Put down the overblown political rhetoric and get to working for America!!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15837Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:51:13 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15837mike spalding ione wai think that you guys should pull the troops out away from the proublem and if needed they can go back in,but for right now just bring them home. let them fight with each other. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15840Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:25:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15840Tim, NY"I hope you liberals now see that we are less safe because democrats are in power. Iraq was just fine a month ago. You people just empowered the Sunnis with your vote." If you define "just fine" as the bloodiest month in 2 years then yeah, Iraq was just fine a monthe ago and its all the evil Democrats' fault that the Iraqis suddenly want to kill eachother!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15841Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:27:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15841Rick Lapin, Albuquerque, NMIf it walks like a duck ...http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15843Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:35:13 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15843Lee Steele"I hope you liberals now see that we are less safe because democrats are in power. Iraq was just fine a month ago. You people just empowered the Sunnis with your vote." So - if we just roll over and let Bush impose the police state in this country he and so many "loyal" Americans seem to crave, the war in Iraq would disolve into thin air? I sure hope you're being sarcastic, or at least not a product of the US educational system.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15851Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:22:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15851W.R. Stricklin, College Park, MarylandIf the USA government (i.e., the Bush administration) takes the position that a state of civil war exists in Iraq, then the USA government is stating that there are at least two sides at war with each other. Additionally, by officially recognizing a state of civil war exists, the USA Government must then decide which faction our government will officially support. Therefore, I would like for all the brilliant Americans who see so clearly that Bush MUST admit that a state of civil war exists to tell me which side the USA is obligated to support? And unless NBC has a clear and definitive answer for this question, NBC has a moral obligation to withdraw its attempt to manipulate USA foreign policy. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15853Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:34:05 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15853bobf John who do you hate more terrorists or liberals. What have liberals done to be blessed with all your hate. Terrorists win when we attack each other. WOW John, you are doing exactly what the terrorists want. Why do you hate your fellow americans so much. Did a liberal beat you when you were a kid. People like you John, who make up their own reality to fit their tiny lives scare me more than any terrorist. Why , because you are acting like a terrorist. What did liberals do to create this mess in Iraq.I think president Bush was the one that decided to go to war in Iraq. So quit trying to create staw men for your little argument of hate. Why don't you place the blame at the source: The Cowboy president and the do nothing congress. Remember John, it is better to be thought a fool then to write and remove any doubt.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15855Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:41:14 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15855Steve Turner Cedar Falls IowaIraq has 30 million people and a hundred of them are dying every day in the midst of the conflict. We have 300 million. If America was caught up in such violence and a thousand averge citizens were dying a day, some accidently killed by a foreign army who was tearing around, what would the other average citizens call it? I'd call it a Civil War with a bunch of Foreign Legionaires caught in the middle. Like the Vietnam War? Yes, like both of the Vietnam Wars. The one with the French Foreign Legion and the one with the American Foreign Legion, caught in the middle. You can call it what you want to call it. By the way, the total troops killed in the U.S. Civil War was 620,000. I hope nobody wants that as the standard.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15857Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:52:32 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15857Lee SteeleW.R. Stricklin, College Park, Maryland: don't you believe it. It's just like peek-a-boo: if you can't see it, it doesn't exist. The brilliant Bush administration has everything under control, and ALWAYS meets it's obligations, legal, moral and ethical. PPhhhhhtttt!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15860Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:04:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15860Desmond Brits day they're out of there by the end of next year. Guess they decided their mission is almost complete and it is time for them to leave. Bush will not call this a civil war because to do so would mean admitting defeat. Therefore, the argument is mute, because the President will not say those words, so we will stay there. NBC is relying on people familar with stragey and conflict, and since those people are American citizens, they do have a right to set foreign policy.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15861Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:20:49 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15861Owen Vander, Evansville, INI am no expert on war, civil wars or foreign policy, so I may be too simplistic in my opinions of the options we have in Iraq....one is to keep doing what we are doing, losing our brave men and women in a nasty war of attrition, a war we'll never 'win' as it is impossible to fight a whole population. Two : partition Iraq into the 3 main sects and then play policeman for years on end, or Three : Pull out and let the civil warring partys have at it, let them kill and massacre each other. When the 'fittest' emerge as the victor, sweep in and take advantage of their control and consolidation, turn them into our allies. All 3 of those options really are distasteful at best, and could have horrific results at worst. Does anyone out there see a better option than any I have considered? This is a very tough situation our fearless leader and his neo-con-poops have put us in, I hope someone much wiser than I can put forth better options.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15864Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:27:36 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15864An Ameircan, El Paso, TXWe should back neither side, for it is not our biz. just as we denied Brit and French intervention in our Civil War, although European desperation for cotton was tough on both sides. We need to back out, let the Iraqis fight it out, while giving aid in the area to keep others out of their fight and not letting it spill everywhere. We made the same mistake in SE Asia, for it too was a struggle for national soveriegnity that got blown up as Soviet conquest.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15866Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:31:57 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15866John Doe, The Peanut Gallery"I hope you liberals now see that we are less safe because democrats are in power. Iraq was just fine a month ago. You people just empowered the Sunnis with your vote." First of all, what Lee Steele and Tim from NY said. Second, chronology and causality are two very different things. I'd explain it to Mr. Roche but I don't think he cares. Enjoy the view from Bush Co. land while it lasts there pal...http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15894Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:34:39 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15894TEC HoustonWe can not support the Suni, since we dethroned their power party, the shia are aligned with the Iranians and we promised Turkey that the kurds would not have their own state. We are at the dance, but with no one to dance. I guess we could be fight all three groups and unify Iraq. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15904Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:16:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15904American Soldier, Ft Bliss TXIt is a tough nut to crack, was the by product of the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the discovery of oil. Sadly, there is no noe good solution, it wil have to come in bits and pieces. the West and the US will have to make concessions in order to gain ground. Our goal should be to stabilize regional security, provide security for those who request it and ensure the desire to have free trade protected. Power plays wil backfire, as the Islamic crowd hates the West w/ undying, enflamed passion! http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15948Tue, 28 Nov 2006 03:31:37 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15948Moderate GOPer, Copperas Cove, TXWhere do we, as a country, get off telling Iraq how to form a government; how to split the country into federal zones? Yes we invaded, crushed Saddaam and have stepped on our zipper since then. But Baker, Hamilton, Bush Corp, Biden, Gen Pace, Madeline Albright, Henry K, Bill n Hill- how do these folks "tell" the Iraqis what to do? If they want an Islamic theocracy- so be it. A Shiite cleric w/ dictatrorail powers- so be it. Kurdish led revolt in the north- so be it. We need to let them govern, w/ US giving aid and assistance in the region, to protect the weak, to protect free trade. Get our troops out of thew way, use only a rapid response to regional emergency. Americna politicans- get off your pompous throne- we dictate to NO sovereign country. how about North korea telling us how to handle our border security issues? Venezula telling us how to develop fodssil fuels? France giving us dioectives on education reform? Hah..so get out of Iraq, before it is tooooooooo late.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#15961Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:28:19 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:15961Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VAThere are no good options here. It is precisely the kind of mess real conservatives sought to avoid, with a cautious look-before-you-leap approach to foreign affairs. Unfortunately, we haven't had a conservative administration nor political party for some time. Today, I'm not sure most Republicans even know what the word means. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#16046Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:25:40 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16046Lee in CA"Where do we, as a country, get off telling Iraq how to form a government" an excellent question, especially when it's President "we're not going to be nation builders" doing the telling? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#16105Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:51:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16105Jane, Southern MississippiYou know, Bush and his buddies could probably safely say that Iraq is in a civil war now. They could blame the Democrats being elected as having started it. They could say that if people had only voted Republican that we would have still been winning in Iraq. If they tried real hard, they could probably say it was all Bill Clinton's falut. They could say it was the fault of the American people for electing Democrats to the House and Senate. They could say this, but does that make it so? I don't think so. Who believes them anymore? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#16182Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:57:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16182Jon Swift, USAI don't think there is anything civil about the Iraq war at all and i really think there should be a moratorium on using the oxymoron "civil war."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/27/15796.aspx#16382Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:31:12 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16382W.R. Stricklin, College Park, MarylandWhat - pray tell - is to be gained by naming the mess in Iraq a "civil war." The only purpose that I can see is to place blame on Bush and in no way do I see doing so as serving any constuctive purpose. Yes, by any definition Iraq is a mess - but nobody wants a rapid American departure. That is - no one other than those who wish to exploit the sitution for gain. And I see at least two groups who wish to gain. Those who seek possible political and financial gain in the USA (i.e., the die-hard Democrats and NBC by increasing viewership of their news broadcasts) and those in the Middle East who wish to drive the region back into the Dark Ages. We are in a mess. Constuctive criticism of Bush is absolutely valid, but I see nothing constructive in terms of USA interests in trying to force the Bush Administration to use the term "Civil War." The Democrats have gained control of both houses of congress. Let's see some action that supports the position taken by the UN and all of the responsible countries surrounding Iraq - and all of these groups say "no rapid pullout by the USA." And to my knowledge the issue of naming the mess in Iraq a "civil war" or otherwise has little or no importance outside those seeking political gain or seeking to market the 6 o'clock news in the USA.