http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx From Elizabeth Wilner, Mark Murray, Huma Zaidi, and Jennifer ColbyPresident Bush heads to Amman to meet with Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki as a leaked November 8 memo written by National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley has Hadley questioning whether Malikien-USCommunityServer 2.0 (Build: 60608.1)http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16155Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:23:50 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16155Desmond President Bush will be in office until Jan 20th 2009. He stated, once again, that he will not leave Iraq until the job is done and victory is acheived and that it was a tough job. Rather than admit that our invasion and subsequent occupancy there was not up to speed, he blames al Qeada for everything that has gone wrong. I see no reason to believe that he will accept any suggestions from any panel. If there is to be a change in course, it is up to people who voted for him to demand change. Anyone who did not vote for him or was against the war has no say. They were labelled "unpatriotic " a long time ago.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16160Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:50:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16160Steve Turner Cedar Falls IowaAn Independents' thoughts on the above. Dubya visits the new Presidential Green Zone (Jordan) to meet with Maliki. They have something in common. Neither thinks the other is up to the Job. Nancy Pelosi will replace Lincoln's Portrait with that of Foley's, while Democrats round up all the fast food coupons they've saved the last six years, in memory of Clinton. They'll be gifts for the exiting Republicans. And Mt. Pleasant, home of the Skunk River Knap-In, will host a bevy of media as Tom Vilsack, our outgoing Governor, beats Arnold Swartzeneggar and Jessie Ventura to the punch, in announcing he is running for President. Arnold is stuck being the Governator of California and Jesse is probably stuck at the Bunny Ranch in Nevada. (Six outgoing GOP Governors, meeting in Florida, may announce their plans to run for President.) Tom is hoping to join Eisenhauer as the only other President with a non-Anglo name (and yes, Irish counts as Anglo). Vilsack/Obama? We could do worse. Actually, we are doing worse.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16164Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:03:24 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16164Steve Turner Cedar Falls IowaThe Iraq Study Group gets its' own message. What with the strident language coming out of the White House, they may have to change their name to the Redundant Iraq Study Group. Unless of course, one of their options happens to be "Stay the Course". Oh well, (or should that be Orwell?), they've managed to grab the spotlight in their dotage, with the full Rock Star Treatment, complete with Annie Leibovitz photos, soon to be gracing the Rolling Stone, no doubt. The only way Dubya will change his mind is if GHWB can convince his wife to publicly spank the brat right on his Skull and Bones-tattooed buttock. I'm not counting on the Group for anything but boilerplate at this point. Look for them next on players cards in the Dubya Presidential Libary, next to the Texas Rangers section. The Rangers will look good next to them, as they will have batted .000!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16169Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:17:11 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16169Jeff Albrecht, San Antonio TXI have sent email and letter to GOP Party HQ, Texas Senators and Congresssman asnd to the White house, SecDef and SecState with scathing protests of our Iraq policies. Never heardback, but sent the substances to a group of like minded GOP freinds. Grass roots may never hold, but GOP will know OUR discontent. As for the rest of America- no traitors, just folks sick of the crap.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16171Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:18:50 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16171TEC Spring TxStay the course by any other words is still stay the course. No way Busch changes his actions, even if his message is changed. At this point, what will the study group recommend, that is not already obivious. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16199Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:03:35 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16199Mark Thieme, Daly City, CADemocrats are not "better people." No way. Perhaps they (Nancy, et al) are merely signaling that they value at least the impression of civility and respect for the classical democratic principal of honest, albeit vigorous, disagreement. That would be refreshing after the past six years. Refreshing indeed, assuming there was anything to it, but then what are the odds of that?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16211Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:44:46 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16211Desmond Jeff, am glad to hear that you do not consider the rest of Americans traitors. Unfortunately,it was a phrase used by many in the GOP during the past two elections, and indeed by the President when he was campaigning just last month. If there is discontent with people who voted for Bush and also for the war, then it is up to those people to speak out. This President does not change his mind, so the rest will always be called unpatriotic by him. There is nothing they can do to change that. It is up to members of his own political party to voice their discontent. He missed the message of this past mid-term election.And if you like the way he is handling things and you voted for him, then that is your choice. I just wish you would refrain from calling your fellow citizens who do not agree "unpatriotic."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16221Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:50:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16221Lee SteeleActually, in regard to Iraq, George Bush has committed "high crimes" as defined by Hamilton in the Federalist Papers. Congress is obligated to impeach. It's their duty. It's you duty to write your Representatives. "The most important position in a democracy is 'citizen'." - T. Jefferson.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16225Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:22:43 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16225Mike Hall, Seattle WAFederalist Papers were a series of articles written to newpapers in order to sway public opininon one way or another for/against the Constitution. therefore, they hold legal authority. Just as nothing bloggers put on here holds any legal sway, only opinion of citizens. Impeachment hearings will not occur. Article 2, section 4 states" removed from office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors". Just because the war in Iraq was not properly planned, poorly executed and did not work as thought- this is not a crime. Otherwise, LBJ would have been impeached over Vietnam. Presidents have to actually commit CRIMES, not blunder about w/ incorrect policies, to get tossed out of office. Can hold same candle to Congress, for Iraq blunders etc. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16232Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:58:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16232Do_doMSNBC.com is a little behind the ball on this one - the Bush Maliki meeting has already been postponed to tomorrow, Maliki has refused to have dinner with Bush (I assume because of the memo). When the puppet pisses on the puppetmaster, you know that things are really going wrong !!!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16236Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:23:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16236Desmond Mike Hall, then why were we trying to impeach Clinton? For having an affair? Was that a high crime? Did he kill anyone while he was doing it or giving away State secrets? Just want to know how that impeachment proceeding was justified. Don't worry, Bush is not going to be impeached. We will have him as President until January 20th, 2009.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16237Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:26:05 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16237Desmond Maybe al-Maliki got his dates wrong? No, guess it's not that. He was there talking to the King of Jordan all day. I've never seen a sitting U.S. President snubbed like that by another Democratically elected President. Especially one from a country we have troops in. See something new every day.That's life.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16239Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:28:17 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16239Desmond Mike, we do have something to say in the matter. It is called voting.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16240Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:28:41 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16240Alice in BlunderlandMaybe Maliki got wise to Bush's plans to serve packaged spinach salad with Grape Kool-Aid....http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16247Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:10:44 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16247Lee in CA"Presidents have to actually commit CRIMES, not blunder about w/ incorrect policies, to get tossed out of office." Incorrect. Blatant disregard of the country's welfare or the Constitution is not a crime, but is an impeachable offense, and President Puddin' Head has done that, in spades.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16251Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:34:02 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16251Mark Thieme, Daly City, CAGiving direct and indirect aid and comfort to the nation's enemies. Sending thousands of people to their deaths based on elaborate fabrication and intentionally presented misinformation. Outing secret agents working on behalf of the American government. Allowing the mastermind of an unprecedented attack on the American homeland to walk away and to remain free to plot the destruction of the American nation. If the shoe fits... http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16265Thu, 30 Nov 2006 00:00:03 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16265Prof Mueller, Illinois St U Law SchoolOnce again, you bloggers amaze me w/ so little knowledge on constitutional law. Offense must be a crime, such as attempting to obstruct an investigation, which is called obstruction of justice. Just becasue one is a PuddinHead is not an impeachable offense. Sending Americans to die in combat is not impeachable, by law standards. Otherwise, every President who sent Americans to combat would be impeachable. YES, Bush may be an incompetent, but then so is a good majority of the elected officals. (Ted K comes to mind...) But, incompetence is not a crime, otherwise Jesse Jackson would be in jail.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16266Thu, 30 Nov 2006 00:01:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16266Hank Peters, Libbyville, OHI am amzed at how many Oliver Stone wannabes are here in bloogerville. you guys amaze me, w/ fertile imagiantions of deep conspriracies committed by Bushities. Wow- if only they were that clever!!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16271Thu, 30 Nov 2006 00:50:51 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16271Barbara, Tullahoma, TNBush, who's brain can hold only one thought at a time, has already changed the subject on Iraq and his Presidency: He is planning his library.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16273Thu, 30 Nov 2006 01:22:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16273Mark Thieme, Daly City, CAProf Mueller, I may not be a Constitutional scholar but neither are you. One thing we can agree on, you are no professor and there is no such school as Illinois State University Law School. And sending Americans to die under false pretenses is impeachable... Fortunately for you, lying on a blog, impersonating a professor of law is not illegal, it is just sad. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16313Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:09:33 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16313Rick, South DakotaFor the last time. Clinton WAS NOT impeached for “getting his groove on”. He was impeached because while under oath he gave a false deposition which provided perjurious, false and misleading testimony to the grand jury regarding the Paula Jones case and his relationship with Monica Lewinsky and that he had obstructed justice through an effort to delay, impede, cover up and conceal the existence of evidence related to the Jones case. In other words he lied under oath in the Jones litigation and obstructing justice by urging Ms. Lewinsky to file an affidavit that the President knew would be false. These are all easy facts to find on the Web, educate yourself before you post and you won’t look foolish. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16316Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:49:26 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16316Rick, South DakotaWhat is it with the Dems and Bill Clinton? I spent twenty years in the US Military. I was a Senior Non Com. I never had the educational advantage of Bill Clinton, who has a law degree, even so I knew that if I ever used my position of authority to attempt to seduce or gain sexual favors from a subordinate my career was OVER. Paula Jones was in a subordinate position to then Arkansas governor Clinton; he attempted to use his position to gain sexual favors from her. He lied about it, and attempted to discredit her story and used the ‘Ragin Cajin” to attempt to discredit her character. When former Clinton adviser and confidant Dick Morris asked Clinton why he couldn’t just apologize to Jones (which was all she wanted), Clinton stated he couldn’t open that flood gate. Too many other women to apologize to? Who knows? The American people would scream for the head of an Military general or even a NCO who abused his position in such a manner. Why are Dems so willing to hold Bill Clinton to such a LOWER standard than that? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16320Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:08:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16320Alice in BlunderlandTo add to what Barbara said, he needs someplace for the coloring books and "My Little Pet Goat."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16328Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:56:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16328Ryan, MichiganMark - I am rather amused that there is not, at least from what I'm looking at, a Illinois State University Law School. I think that is hilarious that you called "Prof Mueller" out. Well done. However, I must disagree with you. Even if you make the assumption that Bush new exactly all the information we know now and still sent in the troops under false pretenses, which I think would be tough to prove, he still didn't committ a crime. Lying is not a crime, unless its done under oath (i.e. Clinton). Let me also say that I was very much against impeaching Clinton. I think that was a large mistake. I also appreciate Hank's post. Yes, Hank there are Oliver Stone's everywhere on the internet. That's part of what is so fun about reading blogs is all the nutjobs that come out of the woodwork and try to gain support for crazy theories that they came up with.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16369Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:45:10 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16369Steve Turner Cedar Falls IowaI, for one, am not an Oliver Stone-Wannabe. I prefer Dr. Seuss.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16371Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:54:37 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16371Lee in CAWhy is everyone who thinks Bush needs to be impeached a "nut job"? Why does Bill Clinton having sex drive you "non-nut jobs" absolutely not-insane, but Bush can transfer the US treasury to Halliburton while ensuring our eventual slavery to China all while having Americans murdered while murdering Iraqis DOES NOT SEEM TO BOTHER YOU? (BTW - I called out the "professor" too, but it didn't make it past the screeners.)http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16401Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:04:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16401Desmond Yes it was important that we impeached a man under otath for lying about an affair. His actions endangered our national ssecurity. Spouses who cheat on their partners are not in the habit of telling them they are cheating. HIs actions just proved he was human and did the man thing by lying . There was only one person that mattered there. His wife. She did not leave him. Went on to become a Senator. But you know them cheatin' hearts can do a lot of damage to the country and put our lives in peril.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16403Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:10:02 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16403Desmond Can't prove Bush lied to us about anything "cause he wasn't under oath. Well he took a pretty big oath when he was sworn in to protect and defend this country. He certainly was given alot of information about those weapons of mass destruction, both yes, they had 'em, and no they didn't. Guess he had a bad day and chose the wrong answer. Turned out to be false. No matter, we are fighting two ground wars in two countries now and if people are feeling more secure now than before, good for them. I don't think the Iraqis are nor the forgotten Afghans.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16406Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:11:52 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16406Ryan, MichiganLee - I'm not sure if you are addressing me in your post, but I was not saying that anyone who thinks Bush should be impeached is a "nutjob". I was merely commenting on Hank's post about the "Oliver Stone's" on here. I wasw just in agreeance with Hank that the internet is a breeding groud for "Oliver Stone's" because you don't have to fact check you can just go anywhere and post anything and somebody will inevitably agree with you and thus starts the "conspiracy theories". I wasn't talking about just the Bush impeachment but all the other made up information that is posted as fact all around the internet.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16435Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:53:32 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16435bobf Rick, what is your problem. Why are you living in the past. What year are we in. Quite bringing up the past and move into the 21st century. What is your fascination with Clinton. I know: you are jealous. You wish you could be Clinton or why would care so much about him. What did Clinton do to you. Grow up and move past the past. look at the present, but the present does not look to good for you, so you keep going back to Clinton. Is he your little fuzzy bear whenever their is a problem, just pull out my little Clinton bear and blame all the world's problems on him. My Gawd, wake up and smell the coffee. Clinton did not start the war with Iraq, he did not authorise secret survaillance on fellow americans. Clinton did not condone torture like Bush does. Clinton did not remove habeus Corpus, so the government can grab any american and detain them forever with no rights. Remember do not listen to what Bush says just look at the actions of the government. Bush says he condemns torture, but yet it happened on his watch, with the blessing from Rumsfeld. So keep blaming Clinton, as they say it is better to be thought a fool then to write and remove all doubt. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16481Thu, 30 Nov 2006 18:57:11 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16481Desmond Hey Ryan, maybe Bush got all his intel to use for going into Iraq from "WICKEDPEDIA."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#16494Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:26:17 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:16494Lee in CARyan - no, it sort of ran together with the next post.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/29/16153.aspx#28583Tue, 09 Jan 2007 00:10:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28583Arlene Wilson Waterloo, IowaThis is a TOTAL Joke because George W. Bush LIED to the U.S. People he's supposed to be protecting!!!! What a Joke Bush is!!!!!