First thoughts: Busy week on tap

jaycee, Ventura, CA — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:38:38 GMT

A shout out to our young people who stepped up and made it happen this year. My generation never could break free of the world that shaped us. The best we could manage was to give our kids a glimpse of a better world. You were the engine driving this campaign, and you helped us realize the dream of a country that truly lives up to the vision laid out in our Bill of Rights. I’m so very proud of you all.

Here in California, our joy is tempered somewhat by the passage of Prop. 8, which decrees that the state will no longer recognize same-sex marriages. Why would voters approve such a blatantly discriminatory action at the same time they were voting for Barack? Good question.

Of course, some people are just plain mean and small-minded. They make themselves feel better by making sure others occupy a lower rung on the social status ladder. Some are so desperate to belong that they are willing to cement their own relationship to a group by turning their fellow citizens into the Others. How very sad to see religious organizations which claim to follow the teachings of the all-time champion of tolerance leading the discriminatory charge.

I understand that in many belief systems and for Mormons in particular, the institution of marriage takes on a religious significance. That’s fine. But how can you think it proper to use the power of the state to make us all conform to your definition of the word? How can you think it’s OK to hurt people and make them feel like second-class citizens in defense of an abstraction? Do unto others, and love your neighbor as yourself. What is so difficult to understand? Or is it just too hard to put into practice?

The measure gathered enough support to pass, however, because far too many voters are just easily confused and distracted. Reformers in California around the turn of the last century had this peculiar notion about the benefits of direct democracy, and put in place an initiative process to allow voters a check on their legislators. More recently the process has become an instrument to govern from the ballot box. In principle it sounds like a good idea. The problem is that to work, direct democracy requires an educated and informed population of voters that we just don’t have.

In the last couple decades, political consultants in California have elevated the writing and naming of deceptive initiatives to an art form. Every election we have special interests masquerading as public interest with big money behind them. The Yes on 8 campaign made up a goofy story about how gay marriage would be taught in schools and sold this ridiculous piece of fiction to a gullible public with a massive media blitz. I knew we were in trouble when co-workers started asking my position on the initiative and then following up with: “But what about the children?” Sigh. The promoters were able to turn a campaign to discriminate into a save the children crusade!

The voters who gave this piece of crap the winning margin are not bad people. They are just not well informed and seem completely incapable of evaluating an argument. The opposition was also lulled to sleep by the early polling and a totally unwarranted faith in the ability of the voting public to see through these deceptive tactics. Discouraging as it is, we will get this one back in time. Let it serve as a reminder that we still have a long road to travel and our education system is in desperate need of improvement.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Chuck, NY — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:41:23 GMT

Sudden thoughts and second thoughts

If you could write Pres-elect Obama’s Inauguration Speech, what would be your theme?

If you could have a one-on-one conversation with Hillary, would you tell her to take the job of Secretary of State? Do you think Bill Richardson would be better?

After Pres-elect Obama’s 60 Minutes interview, do you feel he is going to be a centrist like we all thought?

How hard must it have been for the other world leaders not to engage Pres-elect Obama at the economic summit?

No that I expected anything drastic in the first year, but do you feel as I that the ‘Change’ Barack promised will be more subtle and nuanced for a while?

Why aren’t the best and brightest jumping out of the woodwork to join the Obama administration? Are you getting a little tired of all the Clinton re-treads joining his team?

Anyone care to predict the state of the Neo-Con media in a year? Is their era like the McCarthy Communism hysteria era, and they will slowly fade away? So long Rush? So long Sean? Fox Noise, etc.?

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

the Pajama Pundit — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:43:03 GMT

I would LOVE to be the proverbial fly-on-the-wall in the meeting between Obama and McCain.

The real question: Will Obama offer Senator McCain a position in his cabinet? My political-nerd-friends think I'm crazy -- but I think it's a possibility.

http://thepajamapundit.com/

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Obama Girl in Texas — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:44:44 GMT

It's going to be so much fun disappointing the Hillary fanatics one more time. Do they go for the bait everytime? Nice touch by Barack too, dumping Hillary from consideration because of her husbands under-table and under-handed dealings with the foreign governments. With any kind of luck, Bill and Hill will be up on tax fraud charges when all this ends.

Obama/Biden 2012

Yes We Can!!

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Michael Furlong, Long Island — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:45:54 GMT

I don't like that Bill Clinton, and I can't stand that Hillary. I don't want them as my Secretary of State! No way, no how, no Hillary!

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Suburban Mom paying attention, IL — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:46:10 GMT

the fate of Joe Lieberman as chairman of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee (which will be done by secret ballot;
------------------------------------------------------
Joe must go.

He must absolutely be stripped of the Homeland Security Committee chairmanship. Joe made his choice, and he must now live with it. He should be allowed to remian in the caucus if he so chooses; but the leadership roles must be awarded only to those individuals that work on behalf of the Democratic Party.

Joe Lieberman actively campaigned against Dems in down-ticket races, and his contributions to the ugly smear campaign against our President-Elect cannot be rewarded. Let him threaten to switch sides- his chances for a 2010 re-election in CT are getting slimmer every minute.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Ms Jenny — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:46:20 GMT

The Obamas were AWESOME in their first post-election interview last night on 60 Minutes! I'd forgotten what it feels like to have a President who I actually like and respect. Last night, he was both funny and down-to-earth. And his responses to questions about what comes next leaves me feeling very confident about the direction he will take our country.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

ALBERTO GONZALES — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:49:38 GMT

"GONZO-GATE" IT JUST WILL NOT GO AWAY. PARDON ME MR. PRESIDENT !

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Ron Indiana — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:49:42 GMT

The fact that the Obama transition team is vetting Bill Clinton tells me that Hillary would love to have Sec. of State. Think about it...The Clintons would never give finanacial informtion to the Obama transition team unless she was interested. It is up to the Obama team to determine how much baggage Bill in carrying. My guess, Hillary will be offered and she will accept.

Comments about Obama going to Georgia: MSNBC, don't be DUMB. Obama is busy putting together a cabinet, planning strategy for the economy, planning to get us out of a war. 101 other issues that need his attention, and you are wondering about him campaigning in Georgia? He is off the campaign trail.Period.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

HARRIETT MEIRES — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:51:30 GMT

PARDON ME MR. PRESIDENT ! "GONZO-GATE" JUST WILL NOT FADE AWAY.

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Unfit To Lead — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:52:36 GMT

Obama to McCain - "I can't handle it. Maybe you should have won the election. Besides, Biden's a whacko. I wish Palin was a Democrat."

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Tally Band — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:53:04 GMT

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CARL ROVE — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:54:44 GMT

HI GEORGIE, PLEASE PARDON ME TOO. BECAUSE "GONZO-GATE" WILL NEVER GO AWAY.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Mustang Sally — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:54:53 GMT

The auto industry is mismanaged and the unions are running the show. Let it crash and fall and maybe I can get that Mustang for 40% off sticker.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Mustang Sally — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:55:16 GMT

The auto industry is mismanaged and the unions are running the show. Let it crash and fall and maybe I can get that Mustang for 40% off sticker.

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THE REPUBLICAN PARTY — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:56:13 GMT

GOOD MORNING AMERICA ! PLEASE PARDON ME.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

JJ Riggs, Florida — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:57:40 GMT

So now McCain is now the "Good Guy"? The election must be over, because prior to the vote, McCain was portrayed by the media as the embodiment of the devil himself.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Eric, Salinas, CA — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:57:47 GMT

Wow that is so cool that Begich is gaining more votes over the convicted felon mentor of the Alaskan Valley Girl. Oops sorry about that Valley Girls, that's a low blow to compare you to Airhead Barbie. What a waste of $7 million for a book about a total nobody with nothing intelligent to say. Probably going to be lots of pictures so she can read it too.

Yep the repugnant ones don't want to help out blue collar middle class union labor as they want to let the auto industry die out. They want to cut down on the "Legacy" costs by screwing hundreds of thousands or millions of retirees of the auto industry by killing their medical aqnd retirement plans. The repugnant ones helped destroy the auto industry by protecting it from higher fuel efficiency standards the past 30 years.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Cara — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:58:41 GMT

To the original conservative Full Moon:

We need you back. You've won my heart and the blog is not the same without your humor and insightful sarcasms and observations.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Evil Doer — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:00:54 GMT

Obama to McCain - "I can't handle it. Maybe you should have won the election. Besides, Biden's a whacko. I wish Palin was a Democrat."

Unfit To Lead

Oh gosh, yes, what if Palin was a Democrat? You think the media would have treated her a little differently? You just know SNL would have had her getting the best of those 'Evil Republicans'. What a joke the media has become in this country.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Clara Kansas City, MO — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:01:09 GMT

I just spent a glorious weekend with my family and 95% politic free. It was invigorating. But now it's 'back to work'. So, On the Great Expectations - that is an understatement,...as titles go, everyone is just waiting and hoping (Dems for huge success and Repubs for huge failure!)
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On the Auto bailout, I am convinced that SOMETHING must be done; but leaving the current Ditch chauffers in place seems counter intuitive and counter productive. There is nothing worse than HORRIBLE management getting to keep their jobs. AIG has proven to me that Corporations simply DO NOT know how to act responsibly. These executives are an embarassment and I pity the millions of people who are reliant on their jobs under this joke of "leadership". Really, until government finds a way to make bailouts "performance based". We probably ought to just step aside and put the money into other social programs - some people/industries never learn. GM should have seen this coming a mile away and a decade ago. Talk about arrogance!
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McCain has a REAL opportunity here to leave a significant legacy. The way he ran his campaign (or let others run it) has erased most and any good will people like myself ever had about him. The only way to exit the Senate on an "up" note, is to basically get on board with Obama. Has anyone else thought about what it would mean if Obama forced Reid to give Lieberman's chairmanship to McCain? Can they even do that? Boy, that would put some serious egg on Deputy Dawg's mug.

Happy week, America - let's hope the market isn't too volatile.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Lacy, Minneapolis, MN — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:01:15 GMT

"What about the pressure to appoint a non-white male (like Tammy Duckworth, Jesse Jackson Jr., Jan Schakowsky, or Melissa Bean)?"

Do you mean non-white or non-male? I don't think Duckworth and others would like to be called non-white males;-)

Coleman is changing his tune again because Minnesotans responded negatively to conservatives (Coleman, Katherine Kersten of the Star-Trib, and all their little demons) calling the recount "corrupt" or "tainted." That doesn't mean they aren't thinking it or won't trot that line back out if Coleman loses.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Eric, Salinas, CA — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:01:48 GMT

It will be interesting to see if McCain will be amenable to working with Barack Obama or was that all campaign posturing with him saying he was a bipartisan Senator?

Coleman deserves to lose as he's shown his true colors, that of the extremist lunatic fringe. Go Franken! "Bland" Pawlenty has also shown himself to be part of that same lunatic fringe as he shames himself by repeating lies about some votes being driven around by an official that has been repudiated byt he repugnant one liar that started that nasty rumor.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Russian Louie — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:02:52 GMT

Chuck NY - If you could write Pres-elect Obama’s Inauguration Speech, what would be your theme?

Socialism - Why it's never worked before, and why it will work this time around.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Talli Ban — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:07:17 GMT

Until the union of ignorance between Republicans, wall street and the radical religious right is broken it doesn't make much sense to keep throwing money at wall street companies or tax exemptions for churches. They are simply not competitive with 21st century ideas and needs

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Mishka Mehrens Anaconda Mt — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:08:20 GMT

I don't dislike Hillary but I think Secretary of state gives her and Bill way to much power. I think he should give the job to Colin Powell or Hagel.I think there is too much at risk with the Clintons. Besides Hillary needs to do something with Health care.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

jawillie, Philadelphia, PA — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:11:11 GMT

>>>...and the fate of Joe Lieberman as chairman of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee (which will be done by secret ballot; is that good news for Lieberman since it isn't cool to be publicly pro-Lieberman, or is it bad news so his detractors can stay anonymous?).
==========
As I've said before, neither Obama nor the Democrats owe Leiberman anything and they should cut him loose. If that means they don't get their magical 60 seat majority, so be it. There are enough moderate Republicans left in the Senate to minimize the chances of a filibuster, and Joe the Traitor isn't likely to vote with the Dems anyway. They should kick his ass to the curb and take their chances.

64 Days Until Inauguration Day!
http://jawillie.blog.com

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

62 white female for Obama — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:14:13 GMT

On the other hand, let's not give McCain TOO much credit for making this meeting happen. His reputation has been greatly damaged during the campaign, and meeting w/the President-Elect can't do anything but help him ... and ... based on his behavior during the campaign, helping himself is his primary objective.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Nick in IL — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:16:11 GMT

How are Tammy Duckworth, Melissa Bean and Jan Schakowsky non-white males? They are more appropriately described as non-male whites. I just think its funny that 3 of the 4 "non-white males" you suggest for the US Senate seat from IL are actually white females. petty grammar stuff, I know, but still funny.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

THESE BAILOUTS WILL CAUSE INFLATION !!! — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:22:34 GMT

THESE BAILOUTS WILL CAUSE SKYROCKETING INFLATION --- THE LIKES OF WHICH WE HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED..

CONTINUING THESE BAILOUTS WILL END UP REQUIRING OUR GOVERNMENT TO PRINT MORE & MORE MONEY TO MEET THESE OBLIGATIONS --- OUR LIMITED GOLD SUPPLY AT FORT KNOW WILL BE DEPLETED TO PAY OUR FOREIGN DEBTS --- OUR MONEY WILL BECOME NEAR WORTHLESS.

THESE BAILOUTS WILL CAUSE SKYROCKETING INFLATION.

WE WILL BE BACK TO THE JIMMY CARTER DAYS, ONLY MUCH WORSE, OF AN "INFLATIONARY-RECESSION".

THESE BAILOUTS WILL CAUSE SKYROCKETING INFLATION.

OUR CURRENCY WILL BECOME LIKE THAT OF A THIRD-WORLD COUNTRY --- !

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

The Arnold — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:23:25 GMT

Here in California, our joy is tempered somewhat by the passage of Prop. 8 - jaycee, Ventura Ca

California is buring down, is $15 billion in debt, has more illegal aliens in state then legal residents, and you're worried about Prop 8? Typical liberals, can't see the (burning) trees for the forest.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Gary Schear, bozeman Montana — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:25:01 GMT

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Pete, Milwaukee, WI — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:29:51 GMT

Unions are not the problem. We made concessions. This isn't the 70's. Look at our 2007 contract

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Pat Huntington NY — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:31:16 GMT

jaycee, Ventura, CA (Sent Monday, November 17, 2008 9:38 AM)

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Couldn't have said it better myself. Prop 8 must go. Along with the power of the people to amend their constitution by simple majority vote at the polls. This kind of mob rule is anti-democracy, as it negates one of democracy's basic tenants - protecting the minority rights from the tyranny of the majority. I just hope the ACLU's lawsuit on the ground that Prop 8 was improperly placed on the ballot because it had to pass the legislature first, is successful. Otherwise, whats to stop crazy Califorinian's from placing other props on the ballot that strip away other basic rights? What's to stop them from making being gay a felony?

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

margaret,baltimore,md. — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:32:34 GMT

Obama to McCain - "I can't handle it. Maybe you should have won the election. Besides, Biden's a whacko. I wish Palin was a Democrat".
Unfit To Lead(sent Monday, November 17,2008 9:52 AM)

Dear Unfit: What kind of drugs are you on?!! There is no way in hell that whacko Palin is fit to be near the White House!! I can't begin to think of a job she would be qualified to do!! God in all of his wisdom put the best man for the job in the office(ask Palin).

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Pat huntington NY — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:32:51 GMT

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BethanyB — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:33:50 GMT

Something tells me that Tally Band--Unfit to lead--Harriett Meires--Alberto Gonzales are one and the same.

Tally Band--unless you live in Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio or Indiana -- you really have no idea what you are talking about.

The unions have made major concessions in the last few contract talks, however, because your beloved Republican government let the banks go nuts, there is no longer any cash made available to the Big 3 to be able to manage this transition to energy efficient vehicles.

You all like "free trade" and you all talk pretty till it hits your pocket book. Let me tell you something "my friends" if any of the big 3 go down--this country will be left with a depression that will make the 30's look like nothing. Maybe that was the big republican plan after all -- Bush forgot that Michigan was a part of the United States for the last eight years, letting the Big 3 fend for themselves 'cuz of the unions I'm sure! But, now if anything goes bad -- you will make darn sure that you put it all on Obama huh? It is amazing how the republicans just are not resposible or accountable for anything!!! It has been Bill Clintons fault for everything in these last eight years and now it is all gonna be Obama's fault. W just gets to sit back and deflect!! Bulls*&t.

Something tells me what goes around comes around, and W will see "the light" of his erroneous ways soon enough.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Katherine La Rocco — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:34:50 GMT

Our President Obama will not let 3 million Americans be put out of work. If the Republicans do not want to help workers (having taken care of their banking friends) so be it. Our auto industry will be re-structured and re-focused and under new leakership without looseing jobs for 3 million workers. Don't forget that our President Obama's mantra has never changed "workers and middle-class" that is his focus and will remain all of our focus. The Republicans should continue their present course - this way we are assured an 8 year Obama presidency before he even takes office!!!
YES WE CAN

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Pete - Albany, NY — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:35:03 GMT

Until the unions are broken in Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio, and Indiana, it doesn't matter how much money you send to the US auto dealers. They are simply not competitive with the foreign car manufactuers in the southern states. Now, how many people believe Obama, Pelosi, and Reid are going to bust up the unions?
Tally Band (Sent Monday, November 17, 2008 9:53 AM)

------------------------------------

This is another of those "Little Of Column A, Little Of Column B" deals.

Yes, the UAW is extremely powerful and they've negotiated in a large legacy cost into the Big 3 automakers.

But, don't fool yourself into thinking that management at Ford and GM and Chrysler doesn't share the blame.

They fought higher fuel efficiency standards, they fought higher safety standards...

...and they just built crappy cars.

They did a great job pushing SUVs on America but they had no idea how to build a decent entry-level car. First-time car buyers could get a better car from Volkswagen or Honda or Toyota so why go to GM or Ford? The end result, they failed to create brand loyalty and now they're paying the price.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:36:21 GMT

jaycee ventura......easy there.
You're still going to have to go to work and pay your mortgage when Obama becomes President.
That is, of course, if you even have a job, or own a house.
Both of which I doubt.
The problem here is that you ObaMANIACS think everything is going to be handed to you free of charge when he gets in the White House.
OH MY GOD are you in for a rude awakening!

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KR, MO — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:41:02 GMT

"Unfit to Lead" -- are you kidding me? You are definately not paying attention. Give me a break. President-elect Obama has said and done nothing that would warrent your comment. In fact, he has given every confidence that he is indeed the right leader for our country in this devastating time. Just the fact that he is willing to take all of this mess on is remarkable to me. Instead of bashing the man, how about praying for God's wisdom to be upon him to make the right choices for his cabinet, our country and its people. He deserves at least that much from all of us!

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

marty,columbia,s.c. — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:44:14 GMT

tally band, you have it all wrong, the unions will scale back for jobs, thier workers will see to it, its
the idiot CEOs and Excutives, that have fought with the oil companys to build cars we dont need and most dont want and cant afford, anyone who thinks 3 million out of work is a good idea is nuts. It is time to rebuild our great nation with industry and
infrastruction, I could care less about the rich they are just fine. Its time for help for the working class and the working poor.
marty

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Steve in Portland — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:45:03 GMT

The autoworker's unions said Saturday the workers will accept no further concessions. I believe they just signed their own unemployment warrants, not that they weren't coming anyway. The workers sound just like the inept corporate management that got them to this point in the first place.

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GHunt, Florida — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:52:20 GMT

Isn't the opposition to loans to the auto industry because of Republican hatred of the very thought of unions?

Is the windfall in profits for the oil companies related to Republican patronage of that industry? What about the financial industry bailout? Do they only support the industries that support them?

What about the auto component manufacturer in GA that was working three full shifts last year but is now on one shift and employees working every other day? Multiply that across the country and imagine what bankruptcy of the auto industry would do?

Wouldn't the bankrupty of the auto industry kill all of those small business in future business but also by being allowed to keep products in the pipeline without paying for them?

This is the time to forget about political constituencies and positioning and become statesmen. When Democrats, moderate Republicans and Pat Buchanan agree, maybe they are right. Shouldn't we save the country and our own industry in our national interest rather than sacrifice it on the altar of internationalism?

True, unions have overreached, but haven't financial, oil, government done the same? Congress has given itself better benefits than any union that has ever existed--shouldn't they be stripped away now because of the recession?

Isn't it hypocritical in the extreme to take income for life for serving one term while condemning a major industry to death for equivalent crimes?

Shouldn't we declare Congress bankrupt and send them home along with their bloated staffs, abuse of franking, and dereliction of duty?

How many retirees depend on unions and the auto industry for their living? Then what about retirement and current benefits for Congress--benefits after MINIMAL service--far in excess of anyone else in the country?

How much better off would US industry be now if costs weren't inflated by current and retiree health coverage to give a level playing field with foreign manufacturers?

Didn't Congress and agencies for many years dangle the carrots that now motivate the auto industry? Shouldn't they all suffer the same punishment--save each other or die together?

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Msierra, SF — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:55:05 GMT

Heard this week end about a problem with removing Lieberman from the Homeland Security chairmanship

If Lieberman joins the Republican caucus, the Republicans would tie the Democarats with 50 seats in the Senate, with Darth Cheney breaking the tie, and giving the Republicans control of the Senate until the new Senate is sworn in

talk about Neroism

It would be Lieberman's 'death wish' if he ran as a R3epublican in Conn., but that's in the future
For the present, he could screw the Democrats

Still, I say remove the chairmanship
Show SOME Guts

PS
I think Lieberman isn't up for re-election until 2012
didn't he run in 2006 ?

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Pete, Milwaukee, WI — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:58:53 GMT

There is constant chatter about energy independence, what about MAUNUFACTURING independence? We rely on foreign products so heavily, we have little manufacturing left. ALL other countries subsidies there manufacturing. America passses unfair trade agreements that put us at a STRONG disadvantage to say the least. Automotive is one of the few that exist in the sector. If that dies, watch the dominoes fall. Be careful what you wish for.

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No Bail Out — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:59:33 GMT

Tally Band (Sent Monday, November 17, 2008 9:53 AM)

Until the Unions are broke? The Unions have in the past and will in the future negotiate terms that will assist profitability. However, CEOs and upper management NEVER go without pay increases and bonus's. NEVER. In fact they receive bonus's for good years, bad years and when they are fired for incompetence.
You need to look up the ladder a bit to find the root of the Auto industry.

Gary Schear, bozeman Montana

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Then explain why Toyota, Honda, BMW, etc., are doing so well, both as companies, and for their US workers. Their CEOs get raises and bonuses, just like their workers do. The so called 'Big 3' want to do what they have always done in the past. That's a failed model though and just doesn't work anymore.

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Union Buster — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:00:37 GMT

The choice is simple, either they bust up the unions, or the companies dies.

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MSierra, SF — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:10:33 GMT

Tally Band:'...Until the unions are broken in Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio, and Indiana, it doesn't matter how much money you send to the US auto dealers...'

Where were the unions at Goldman-Sachs ? AIR ? Washington Mutual ?

These were all failures of MANAGEMENT !!
Irresponsible lending by overpaid idiots
Gambling with the share holders money

The Auto industry has fought EVERY fuel efficiency measure to come down the pike. The Japanese haven't

The Auto industry has STUBBORNLY Refused to do long term investments in quality and safety. The Japanese have

It's the 'Fast Buck' syndorme in both cases
A culture of greed and 'me first' on the part of corporate America

That's the Problem with Detroit

That said, the unions will have to give a little too
I think they have been co-operative with management in the past year or so

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dee cani — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:11:53 GMT

you wrote: here’s another way in which Obama appears to be mimicking Lincoln.
Please be careful of your language: you could have said 'inpired by Lincoln' or 'learning from Lincoln,'
but you used a phrase with a slight perjorative twist. Why?

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New Independent — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:12:57 GMT

jaycee, Ventura, CA (Sent Monday, November 17, 2008 9:38 AM)

Hey jaycee, I totally agree with you! In fact, I will go one further. If people truly believe that we should follow the Bible while making laws, (they say that in the bible it says Marriage is a union between a Man and a Woman) and that's their only reasoning for voting against marriage for homosexuals, then I think the government should also abolish divorce. It also says in the Bible, what God has joined together let no man put asunder! I guarantee you, when it starts affected EVERYONE, instead of just a few, there will be an outcry against using religion to perpetrate laws!!! I am surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

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New Independent — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:14:45 GMT

Jaycee - By the way, not to belabor the point, but my 16 year old son said he read somewhere that some kid was saying that the government should not perform marriages at all. The government should only perform civil unions, and if a couple wants to get married than they should have to go to their religion for a marriage. Problem solved! From the government we would all get a Civil Union Certificate, and religions would give out Marriage Certificates. Then everyone would be equal under law.

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John doe — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:17:51 GMT

It will be interesting to see if McCain will be amenable to working with Barack Obama or was that all campaign posturing with him saying he was a bipartisan Senator?
--------------------------------------------
Have you been sleeping the past 20 years? McCain has been successful at bipartisanship for about two decades. It's Obama who has zero record of it, remember?

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Jess — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:19:01 GMT

McCain has a REAL opportunity here to leave a significant legacy
---------------------------------------------------
He already has a significant legacy. He doesn't need to prove anything to you, Clara.

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:20:17 GMT

What's funny is the union's backed all the Democrats and now they may have their power taken away by the same people they voted in LOL.

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

BethanyB — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:21:15 GMT

Soo--it is ok with you republicans to put approximately 3 million people out of work. Lord only knows how many small businesses go under, how many homes go into foreclosure, how many loans dont get paid, how many people go into bankruptcy. Yet -- all that is ok with you?! You of the christian right wing coalition -- are you going to support these people now that you got your way? We kept AIG floating for their conventions but, let the Big3 go down because you dont like unions!! Wow-- that pretty christian of you!!!

First thoughts: Busy week on tap

Bentley in NY — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:31:06 GMT

Do any of you pro-union folks actually know anything about the auto industry? The massive labor costs forced by the unions onto the auto makers are why they managed their companies the way they did. The only way automakers could make any money was to sell the big SUV's and trucks. They stripped down their cars in any effort to make them profitable or simply to minimize losses. There was a time when every Escort Ford made was a loss and the only reason they kept making them is to offset the fuel mileage standards from the F-150 where they could re-coup the loss. If the automakers hadn't been forced to pay such legacy and high wage costs, they could have re-invested that money into their sedans, making high quality competition to the foreign makes. (They saw they were falling behind a decade ago, but they simply couldn't afford to make great sedans) That's also why the fought so hard against fuel standards and why they advertised so much that SUV's and trucks are what americans just HAD to have to be american. Without those big trucks, they couldn't have survived. I understand the unions have made consessions, but they should have happened 20 years ago or more. I'm all for fair wages, but the unions are to blame in this mess, pure and simple. it will be a sad day when the big 3 become the big 2 and it will be squarely the fault of the unions.