Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

zach, San Jose — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:07:43 GMT

I would like to see some comparison to the numbers if they had taken a commerical plane and/or private jet.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Rock,Janesville,Wisconsin — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:08:03 GMT

Their whole trip is a huge tax write off anyway. They only drove to Washington to "con" the Congress into giving them more money. Again!

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

P.C.R. — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:11:00 GMT

We all need to grow up here. The private jet issue could be raised with almost every witness before Congress. The jets still exist in all Fortune 500 companies. They cost them money whether they fly on them or not. Pilots, maintenance crews, schedulers, all get paid on salary to keep a fleet available whether they are in the air or sitting on the tarmac somewhere. Yes, they could have flown commercial but i am certain that the ceo doesn't travel alone either. Tickets for twenty underlings along with security is going to add up to the same relative expense to the company. Why can't we focus on what really matters when we are having any important discussion? Could it be that "IMAGERY" has become everything in every conflict and debate. What was Sen. Corker trying to do to Gettelfinger with the attempt to "labor negotiate" away pension payments into equity holdings?????? Is that his job????

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Moven On — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:11:36 GMT

Is that all you media types do is b*tch and moan? I mean come on! How much does it cost to support the Royality that we also call our Congress? Why do those Kings and Queens get a pass for their extravagent lifestyles of the Rich and Famous? Going to Washington doesn't mean you automatically are supposted to get rich.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

TL Martin, Morris, Ohio — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:14:26 GMT

You guys obviously have way too much time on your hands. That's probably why a lot of you and your ilk are being layed off.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

DV, CA — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:14:52 GMT

It didnt cost the companies anything. Never heard of a blackberry, cell phone and lap top? They work just as much...just have less time for golf.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Dona Bee — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:16:49 GMT

Why won't MSNBC post my comments? Why does NBC hate middleclass hr.workers? Chris Matthews took the New York congressman to task about not driving a Big 3 car> GO Chris. David Gregory is a repub tool. His wife works for Fannie or Freddie. He loves Wall st. and hates Main street. Why can't MSNBC hire people that understands real people. Joe and Mikia are almost as bad. GO Chris Matthews. Run for office in Penn. Speak up for the real people and manufacturing jobs. Your the best! D Gregoery-boring as watching paint dry. David Schuster you should have 1600 Penn. show D.B.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Dan — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:17:35 GMT

My only question after reading this is:

Slow news day, or slowest news day ever?

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

MBA Bob — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:18:41 GMT

Obviously no business majors working at msnbc. With the CEO being out of town for a greater period of time because he's driving means he's not managing his direct reports. All these CEOs are hands on types, so the lose to each of their companies for the time they we're not there would probably be closer to a million dollars rather then a few thousand. Sure, you'll say Telecommute! Not too many CEOs work from home though.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

MSierra, SF — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:27:29 GMT

Hey !

We subsidize FOOTBALL TEAMS, BASEBALL TEAMS....
Some Southern states even subsidize foreign car companies

Better Ford than AIG !!
And with Ford it's only a loan

With AIG and the Banks, it's a handout

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Stop It Please — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:29:41 GMT

Are all you lefties starting this nonsense again where you compliment your posts by posting under another name? I thought you all got over that once you turned 18.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

The Citizen — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:34:20 GMT

I guess the Left in this country isn't going to be happy until the government controls every industry in America. People like Dodd and Shelby wouldn't know the first thing about building a car, yet they make jokes of the auto company representitives that are appearing. If Dodd and Shelby, and the other Senators, don't want to give the automakers the money, then just don't give them the money. It's not there's to give away anyway.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Marcus National City CA — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:35:47 GMT

Jesus Christ Domenico and First Read People... I'm definitely not supportive of these auto bailouts, but like Michael Moore pointed out, where was this questioning and analyzation of companies who are receiving/asking for bailout money when it came to the Banks and Wall Street Executives???

You guys are now criticizing or at least pointing out that for the Auto Execs to be driving is possibly costing the companies more money due to hourly wage while you guys KNOW is not a fair statement or comparison, because there isn't an executive in the country who gets an hourly wage... With the Auto Companies, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't because either way you'll be sneered at by the politicians, press, and elite wall street.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Indie Woman in Denver — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:40:32 GMT

So is there ANY WAY the auto execs can win with the MSM? When they arrive by private jet (admittedly stupid), they get slammed. When they arrive by car, they get slammed. What do you want them to do? Must be a slow news day again.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Anna Molly — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:44:20 GMT

Sigh. Here we go again.

>>Ever notice Anne Molly and C A post at the nearly the same times? I wonder why? Clair, MO (Sent Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:38 PM) (from another thread)

Clair -- I am not C A, nor do he and I coordinate our posts. I should be so lucky, and so should you. Then maybe you would make some sense.

^^^^^^^^^^

>>Clara, C A, Tuscaloosa, AL, and Anne Molly are all the same person.
All In The Family (Sent Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 PM) (from another thread)

All -- Please believe me, I’m not fit to wipe the blogging boots of either of the other two folks. I do admit to knowing C A; in fact, I’m proud to know C A; I’ve never met Clara, but I am flattered that you would associate me with her.

And by the way, it’s Anna Molly (aka Anomaly), and I’m proud of that, too.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Miles, London — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:52:11 GMT

To First Read: Your per-hour calculations seem to be based off a 24 hour working day... shouldn't an 8-12 hour day be more useful for the purpose of comparison to the average person?

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

eagle1776 — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:52:41 GMT

Poor babies they had to rough it in the cars they build. No more limos or executive jets. The symbolism is worth every penny spent.

Now, I can get into my GERMAN made care and drive to where I gotta go right now.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Clara Kansas City, MO — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:16:48 GMT

My only thoughts reading this are twofold:

1. 17,000,000/2,080 hours = $8,173/hour
2. CEO Frat Boy Road Trip - who packed the beer bong?

I have been in trouble all day with my sarcastic sense of humor - which I use equally on almost everyone.

I am not related to CA Tuscaloosa or Anna Molly; but I consider them both kindred spirits. My thoughts are my own, and I'm not here seeking approval. I just love the forum to share.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Micki Crowell, Elk Grove, CA — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:20:12 GMT

Although I don't like the idea of "bailing out" any more American companies, I believe that we MUST give bridge loans (with restructuring) to our auto industry. There are many arguments on both sides for allowing these companies to fail, but the ONLY argument that stands out above all others in my book concerns the American people and how the Big 3's failure will affect the lives of families, friends, neighbors and communities. Here's some of the consequences of shutting down America's Automotive Industry:
* Loss of 3 + MILLION American JOBS
* Loss of 3 + MILLION Americans covered by employer based Health, Dental & Vision Care Plans
* Loss of 3 + MILLION Americans paying Mortgages, Insurances and House-hold Utilities
* Loss of 3 + MILLION Americans paying Soc Security, State, Local and Federal Taxes
* Loss of 3 + MILLION American Incomes assisting in reviving our economy through purchasing goods such as Food, Clothing, Houseware and services such as Beauty care, Child care, Entertainment, Travel and Restaurants.

If you consider all of the jobs that may be dependant on the American auto industry, failure could mean the devastation of more than Four (4) MILLION American Jobs!!! Do we really want to devastate lives in order to make a point concerning bail outs? Should we refrain from trying to help our economy in the long-term?

I think we should have stood up in strong opposition to the REAL bail out (hand-out) of the banking industry when we had the chance, but most of us were in Full-blown Shock and had not really taken the time to research all that should have been demanded before the bill was signed & the funds distributed. This time We the People, Congress and the Pres. Elect's Economic team are demanding accountability and restructuring for a 21st Century transportation product that will bode well for America's future. Therefore, I believe we must support the bridge loan. What say you my fellow Americans???

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Tzalaran — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:24:06 GMT

you know, this bailout is peanuts compared to the financial industry, has a direct tie to how many more jobs and livelihoods, and isn't a direct blank check to anyone, yet congress is balking at them. but if it was their banking or insurance buddies they'd bend the american people over and stick it to us again.

This highlights everything that is wrong with our government, society, and priorities in general. The wealthy have power, they look after themselves, and to hell with those less fortunate. after all, this is the OWNership society. welcome to wage slavery.

and its likely that we as a people are too apathetic to change it. we'll continue on in our own self interest and to hell with those who aren't me. and we wonder why people hate us... pathetic

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

lj, Charlotte, NC — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:37:05 GMT

So it would've cost them more to fly commercially in coach as well. What's the point of this? Where could they possibly win in this argument?

How did the bankers fare under this same line of questioning? Oh, that's right - the bankers didn't have to worry about travel, because their friends in Congress were already there.

Seriously, as much as I like this blog - this was a pointless post.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Dave Gallenberg, Indianapolis, IN — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:48:20 GMT

The bailout is supposed to preserve jobs. The plans submitted by both GM and Chrysler close plants and CUT jobs. Closing plants will also ripple through the industry support stream, therby negating the impact of the bailout funds. A better plan would be to redirect the mission of those targeted plants to mass transit (light bus & rail) production. Redesign shouldn't take longer than the time it took to gear for war production in the 1940's. If we treated this economic condition as seriously as we treated the threat of world domination we would be far better off. The threat of economic meltdown will leave us as devestated as the domination threatened by despots during that war. We need to address it as seriously as we did then. We must not go with the half-hearted leadership fits and starts we have used so far in every crisis since after the First Gulf War. That war was conducted with a serious command, from Bush (41), Shwartskof, Powell to Cheney (God save us). If the industry heads are unwilling to lead this effort, can them or deny the funds and let the bankruptcy court settle the matter, for the bailout will only be the first step in an ongoing support stream of funding.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

eagle1776 — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 01:20:39 GMT

So now they suck up. The problem I have is verification of their claims. Who is going to have oversight of what they do with the money WE are giving them. Well, I have to go. I will drive my GERMAN car to the store to get a few items.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Willis, Boston, MA — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 01:33:44 GMT

Honestly, the planes were stupid. But at some point you have to lay off. What were they supposed to do? Crawl in hemp clothing? How much did the entire staff of NBC spend commuting this week?

Honestly - what would you have had Wagoner, et al., do, given that you can't change the past?

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

RT James — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 01:39:19 GMT

I sincerely wonder if-in u folks are not becoming a bit holier than thou with such an article. Why? Well, having been a "journalist" since 1962 I have mellowed to the point that I am able to realize that there is as much pavement on one side of the centre line as there is on the other. Would you want your USA secretary of State sitting either commercial or even first class on an aircraft reading the latest terrorist threats to the country not knowing who their seat mate is? Or ... would you want the Secretary of State in a commercial airliner during a major crisis where they could not be in communication and thus possibly use their built up energies to ward off an "incident"? Or, would you seriously desire that the CEO of a major USA company be on a commercial airliner ... a bus ... or a train ... which might expose his/her documents, communications, etc., to industrial espionage? Please get off of the silver perch and shake hands with reality.

I've spent a good part of my life advising politicians and busines folks to avoid the "norm" when doing business. Use blue tooth in a mall and your competition will produce a fantastic new car before you such as a "Mustang".

The world is in crisis. I am not certain at age 64 after having had 2 strokes -- where the fault lies. Regretably, I know that the primary fault lies in what is known as "filling the void" -- non-stop cable news -- the land where fact is not accepted prior to the reportage of rumour -- and the first report has the primary impact on the listener in the same respect as an animal lives by its first image.

We ... quote un quote journalists have become monsters of untruth/ratings. I am so proud of my days in the craft of being what WAS known as being a "REPORTER" of honestly garnered facts.

Today I would be laughed off the block for having such integrity in my profession.

Lordie me.

Blessed Holidays Greetings To One & All From Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

rtj@gbp.net

rtj/PM

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

TB, New York City — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 02:39:20 GMT

Great analysis, but not really fair to include their time as a cost of the trip since cell phones and Blackberrys enabled them to be fairly productive on the trip. Still, not really all that smart to drive.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Lyn, KCMO — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 03:31:50 GMT

Hey, Frank?

Way to much time on your hands... Get a Life!

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Pete, Cincinnati OH — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 03:50:23 GMT

Maybe Chris Dodd should have just asked them to call in. Of course, this would prevent the wonderfully sad MSNBC machine from trying to gin up another controversy. Keep up the good work.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Fred, San Jose, CA — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 05:29:07 GMT

When someone makes the same amount of money in 2 days as a factory worker makes in a year, something is definitely wrong. No matter how the 3 CEO's brought the tin cup to Washington, same bad taste. After watching how the banks and Wall Street used tax payer's money, no more blank checks.

Instead of giving free money, government should take this opportunity to 'invest' in the 'small 3' by buying stock equivilent of the loan, also with appropriate number of seats on the board to represent tax payers. There should be an improvement plan, not necessary tied to the money, but targets to meet environment, efficiency and labor goals. If company fails to meet the target at any time, replace failing parts of the management team. If company meets the goals at the end of period, sell back the stocks and pay down the deficit.

This may be socialistic in some views but this is the best way to maintain economic confidence and not to destroy capitalistic principles. The need to firm up middle class outweights and avoid wider class gap, outweights a little sacrifice in conveservative economics.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

David, Austin, Texas — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 05:37:10 GMT

What a stupid story. Come on guys, this is pretty trashy journalism.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Ron Doe, New York — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 07:38:47 GMT

NO BAILOUT!!! These companies have BAD management. Mulally spent $760,000 on "personal" (not business) corporate jet use. He has total compensation of $22 million. Ford also gave away free computers to its employees in 2000 when it was losing market share! IN 2008, FORD GAVE OUT HUGE BONUSES TO ITS MANAGEMENT in 2008 even though the company is going down!!!! NOW THEY ARE AFTER THE TAXPAYER DOLLARS IN THE SAME YEAR???? NO WAY!

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Paul, South-central Michigan — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:53:06 GMT

The most absurd part of this story is you cannot explain something this simple to a Member of Congress. They seem to only be capable of thinking in sound bites and then only in the simplest of terms.

Now, these three CEO's should be wired enough to do their job from anywhere, but to think they each will have wasted 20+ hours in travel alone is sad, simply to combat the nasty, gotcha-style version of political discourse we now enjoy in our seats of government.

What a great article. I think it may actually illustrate both how desperate the Big 3 are right now to get the bail out, and how weak they are as managers that they caved to public opinion in the face of a very simple cost/benefit decision. It somehow reminds me of their excuses when they continued to build large SUV's (while facing $3-4/gal gas) because American's wanted large gas guzzlers...

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Wear a suit & tie - and money falls at your feet! — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:26:38 GMT

As much as I hate to give money to bail out bad management / business practices, something needs to be done w/ the auto industry. We cannot afford to lose the manufacturing industry. Yes, I believe the big 3 need to do some serious restructuring - starting from the top down! However, what does it insinuate, when the financial industry gets a bailout w/ no strings attached? They basically got their bailout handed to them on a gold platter. I don't get it. The rich just keep getting the breaks, while the middle class continues to get trampled on.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Terry Kent Cape Haze FL. — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:28:59 GMT

I was wondering how long it would take some one in the press to realize that blasting the corporate jet thing is really trivial.
When I heard the congress man blast the big three for taking there jets, I thought what a idiot.

I am a retired person, and I still understand that time is money and that driving is a waste of time for these guys.

Also is there not some thing on the "books" of anti-trust laws that keeps these men from "Jet Pooling" unless they get permission from the government?

The congressman was just looking for a sound bite.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

cindy, Las Vegas, Nv — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:33:22 GMT

Hmmm - I'm glad they decided to drive, but can't justify what those people make. It's incomprehensible to me these guys need a bailout. I say no. File chapter 11, deal with the consequences, get your crap together, take care of your employees. This makes me madder by the day. I feel for those who may lose their jobs, but lets be real, look at United Airlines now after filing bankruptcy. They came back stronger, as many others have. The slight humbling these CEO's have shown is not enough. I can't imagine what their bank accounts have in them!!! Actually, I don't want to know. Would piss me off more!!!!!!!

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:40:49 GMT

This was simply a case of over-reacting to the criticisms about their Private Jets. They should have just hopped aboard a commercial flight for this round of begging sessions with Congress.

Another bit of over-reaction by these Executives was stating they would work for (what was it one cent or one dollar) if Congress would bail out their company. As if such a pay cut would place these multi-millionaires in some kind of economic painful situation as your average production worker. I saw this offer by the Executives as somewhat condescending didn't you?

I don't know what it is with these auto Executives. They are supposed to be the very cream of the crop in Executive material yet they seem unable to handle themselves very well before Congress, before the public, and in their ability to come up with some common-sense non-knee jerking strategy to secure federal funding.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

S.B. Stein E.B. NJ — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:42:03 GMT

Couldn't they have shared a van or organized a bus for all of them? That would have been better. Why didn't they learn from the Japanese car makers? The major reason why they have made fuel efficient (and smaller) cars is that the Japanese have to import most or all of their oil.

We, as Americans, need to learn to do with less and work with smaller things. We consume too much and learn too little. That can be seen in the American automobile industry. If they had spent the money on R&D for better materials for body frames (stronger & lighter steel or other non-steel materials), more fuel efficient engines, non-internal combustion engines, we as Americans would be better off. We'd be beating the Japanese at innovation, have a larger share of the car sales world wide and have more people innovating.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

jawillie, Philadelphia, PA. — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:45:33 GMT

>>>Travel Expense Breakdown: $78.04 for gas for all three cars

==========
So what. Make them suffer like the rest of us.

46 Days Until Inauguration Day!
http://jawillie.blog.com

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

subgruvet, ok — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:48:27 GMT

What's the average per hour pay of the average auto industry union member? Ford's Mullaly is making almost $2000. an hour! The gap between rich and poor is the problem folks. When the gap gets wide enough countries fail. Limits pertaining to the disparity between lowest paid and highest paid within companies should be instituted or we could possibly join those nations that have failed.

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Lauren, Lansing, Michigan — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:54:27 GMT

I understand completely the bailout fatigue that our country and Congress is going through. The way in which the TARP funds are being allocated by Treasury is confusing to the mind and boggling to the eye. So it seems only natural that the auto companies would be put under a little more scrutiny in coming to ask for a loan (Congress is trying to prove it's learned it's lesson).

However, I think people are starting to take it to the extremes. It's like the auto execs can't do anything right. Admittedly, they've made some mistakes. But it's not as if the auto companies can just change overnight. All 3 CEOs who testified in front of Congress are relatively new to the company (2-4 years they've been in their position). They are int he process of rebuilding and restructuring. But seeing as it takes 4 years for a car to go from concept to the showroom, this economic crisis has hit them at the worst possible time.

Remember, we Americans are partly to blame to. For the last decade we've been demanding bigger and less fuel efficient cars. Remember the "glory days" of Soccer Mom Vans and SUV Dads? With the sudden (at least in terms of economic trends) shift in demand to smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles, the change in the production has a lag in time it much catch up to. Yes, the auto companies should've had some sense this was coming. But they were in the midst of restructuring and changing when this hit.

Also, I find a lot of fault with the comparisons to the foreign car makers. Let's not forget that Toyota and Nissan are given supplements from their government that far exceed any tax breaks the Big 3 may receive. Yes, they can pay their workers less and that saves on production cost. But even the UAW is making broad concessions to do whatever they can to save the American auto industry.

In conclusion, I'm not arguing that the companies be given a blank check free of conditions or regulations. It's our tax dollars, so we need to be sure that they're being spent right. But Americans and our Congress need to get a cold doss of reality about the situation at hand, and the implications that could come of a bankruptcy of one of the companies is more far reaching than people really seem to grasp. If one of those companies fail, that's that many more people on unemployment, competing with you for jobs and other resources. You really think you wouldn't be paying for it then? You really think the costs to the government won't be more with all those unemployed employees looking to the government for help?

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Maureen Mullen Santa Barbara, Calif — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:16:00 GMT

Well, let's see. They are criticized for flying so they drove. They are criticized for driving because it took too long. I'm not sure what else is available. However, as you can see, they are desperate to do anything to the get help after being so short sighted. They went after the money right in front of their face, instead of working for the future good of the company. Very poor management skills. There needs to be significant oversight if they get helpDidn't Obama say something about requiring that they get the gas milage WAY up etc etc?

Auto companies' trips, by the numbers

Cliff McSparran, Austin, Texas — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:37:41 GMT

Though it's fun to look at automaker CEO's trips to Washington, the numbers we should be looking at are C.A.F.E. (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) numbers, which would have required automakers to meet certain gas mileage goals. Beginning in 1975, Congress set future fuel economy standards, which the Big Three have continuously fought through lobbying, marketing and the courts. Successfully. Every time CAFE standards come up, they're delayed or in some other way made ineffectual, and have increased exactly zero since 1984. If Ford's, Chrysler's and GM's fuel economies we were in 2008 where Congress originally envisioned them to be, they would be selling cars Americans want and need.