First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Pat Huntington NY — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:27:23 GMT

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Mia in Miami — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:28:20 GMT

"Mia in Maimi - All cars are can be crap - who doesn't have a car horror story. Oh, and Auto Dealers sell cars. Auto Manufacturers make cars.

There are millions of people whose lives depend on the auto industry. Something like 10% of the American work force will be hurt if these companies are allowed to fail. That is the issue, not your opinion of cars. Barb in MI "
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Look Barb, I don't care who makes them or deals them and I am sure everyone else on this board knew what I was getting at. The thing is, american cars are crap and I don't know how they survived this long with the kind of cars they produce! And, you wonder why Toyota and Honda are the number 1 selling cars in America.

How about this...get those 3 big timers that are begging for "loan" money to go into their Offshore/Swiss bank accounts, put their money together and there you have it...there is your "bail out" money.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Eric, Salinas, CA — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:30:25 GMT

Heckuva Job Georgie! Your stinking economic nonsense has cost the country another 533,000 jobs lost. With unemployemnt on the rise it's sheer stupidity to be talking nonsense about letting the big 3 automakers go into bankruptcy thus further wrecking our swooning economy with even more job losses.

The bad economic news is just more repudiation of the supply side economics garbage. It's way past time for demand side economics by taking from the rich and greedy and giving to the poor and middle class so they can increase demand thus keeping more people off the unemployment line.

It's really pathetic that a bunch of lame duck repugnant ones still cling to their idiotic ideology and will do everything to wreck our country to spite the voters who threw the bums out of office.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Union Label — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:31:07 GMT

For all the millions of dollars the unions like the UAW, the AFL-CIO, and the Teamsters just plowed into Democratic candidates campaign war chests, this is the respect they are given from the very people they helped elected? There is going to be heck to pay the next time the Democrats show up asking these unions for more money.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

The Answer — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:32:19 GMT

Maybe Franken and Coleman can do a job share. M-W-F can be Colmans days. Franken, being the new guy, gets T-Th-Sat.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

gepa — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:33:30 GMT

the auto makers are agreeing to make consessions, the fat cats got over 700 Billion dollars and the Ceo's bailed out in their Golden Parachutes and went on glamorous vacations, if we can bail out the Wall Street Crooks, we can bail out the auto makers too..give them the $$$ allready.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Eric, Salinas, CA — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:33:56 GMT

Geez the nutcases need to give it a rest already about Clinton's pardons. There are plenty of skeletons in the pardon closet from Raygunz, Bush and Bush that the conservative lunatics have nothing to whine about Clinton's.

Sure looks like the Coleman crew of democracy crushers are trying to steal an election by throwing out a bunch of ballots that would give Franken the win. Sounds like Florida 8 years ago.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Ron Indiana — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:38:18 GMT

Watching the big three CEO's beg for money was like attending a funeral or wake: remembering the good times of buying my first 67"cuda", riding in my friends cherry red Mustang, the huge backseat of the old Chevy's. Days gone by...

After much thought, I'm against the bail out. Giving the big 3 money is like the banks making a bad loan. In no way can GM make a car as good as a Camry, not next year, not three years from now. People will not buy GM if they go into bankrupsy, but they are not buying them now! A bailout just prolongs the suffering. Will Bush help the auto industry? No, I doubt it. The unemployment lines will be waiting for Obama to fix. It is like watching a funeral.

Glad to see Henry Kissinger support Obama's national security team. Christopher Hitchens is crazy. He speaks well, but is clueless about the real world. No need to have him on Hardball.

A bit under the radar is the position for a technical computer/internet expert. My guess is Obama will create a new cabinet position for some guru with super-duper computer skills, not Bill Gates, more likely his own campaign technical expert. It is a position needed in this crazy electronic world.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Paul, Pleasant Ridge, Mich. — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:43:32 GMT

"The heads of the nation’s three automotive companies return to Capitol Hill today to testify this morning on the House side. Could it possibly be as bad as it was yesterday before the Senate?"

Wow, did anyone actually listen to Dodd, Bayh, Casey, and Carper - or hear Moody's economist Mark Zandi say that the collapse of the Detroit 3 would have a "cataclysmic" effect on the economy?

I watched the entire hearing, and sure seems that the Democrats are determined to find a way to do bridge loans.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Food Stamps — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:58:43 GMT

Liberals, especailly ones on this board, need to be very concerned about the jobless numbers. With so many people out of work, who is going to pay for all the benefits these same liberals are collecting from the government?

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Tisha W., Houston Tx — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:01:28 GMT

I watched the entire hearing, and sure seems that the Democrats are determined to find a way to do bridge loans.

Paul, Pleasant Ridge, Mich.

You must have missed the part where Schumer and Dodd berated the automakers and said they didn't trust them to get the job done, with or without the bail out money. Didn't sound too supportive to me. Even Reid says he's no where near having the votes to pass the bill, so that means many Democrats are not unboard.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Michael7 — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:06:00 GMT

Has anyone ever stopped to think that most of the Honda's, Toyota's, and Nissan's are assembled right here in the good ole' US of A by American workers?

And even those companies sales are down 30% as well. The main problem is that people who do not have jobs cannot purchase cars, homes, electronics or anything else. 533,000 people out of work is says more about the economy than any bailout.

Instead of bailing out major corporations, why not just give every one who filed a tax return in 2007 $1 million to spend as they like. Not a loan, just give us the money and let's see what happens. It would cost a heckuva lot less than $700 billion!

How many struggling small business owners could us $1 million? Or families whose homes are in foreclosure? Or veterans coming back from Iraq & Afghanistan who cannot find a job or have serious injuries suffered in combat?

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Michael7 — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:06:08 GMT

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

thats a fact jack — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:06:40 GMT

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Do the recount right Minnesota — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:25:02 GMT

The Minnesota recount is not confusing to anyone who actually takes a minute to educate themselves on the process, and the issues. This isn't the Florida 2000 situation, the person who had the most people intend to vote for him may not win, but it won't be because of political insiders suppressing, or refusing to count legally cast votes. I want Franken to win, and I think he had more people (not by a large margin) intend to vote for him. However, some people have invalidated their votes by being too cute by half, such as jokingly writing in Lizard people on the write in space. The circle wasn't also filled in, as that voter did with other races, but it probably will be determined to be an over vote (vote for two or more candidates), other voters (for both candidates) signed their name, which under Minnesota law automatically disqualifies the vote. I'm sure no voter knew that proudly identifying himself would invalidate their vote on a recount (the machine counted the vote initially, because the law violation isn't picked up on a machine count, only a hand recount)

Also the myth that the people who screw up voting are overwhelmingly Democrats is quickly dispelled if you take the ballot challenge at the Minneapolis Star Tribune website. Just as many Coleman votes as Franken votes either merely placed a check mark, X, or filled in an oval near the name, but not in the space provided. Minnesota and Iowa traditionally trade spots as #1 and #2 in SAT scores, and other HS academic measures, and yet a fair amount of their voters failed to correctly mark their ballots.

Under Minnesota law (easily available on the Star, and Minnesota Public Radio website) voter intent is liberally applied, so while the voters who proudly identified their ballot will have their ballot rejected on clear statutory grounds (and with a close to even effect on both candidate-but in a race this close, it does mean that the candidate more people who were legally entitled to vote, registered etc, who voted for a candidate be it Franken or Coleman, might not see that candidate sworn into the Senate)However those ballots were voter intent was clear, such as the voter put checks or X's on all candidates they voted for will have those votes counted, even if they were too light for the machine to pick up.

The idea that Minnesota would not count legally cast absentee ballots, but through honest human error (oversight, mistake, nothing nefarious) were mistakenly rejected by local county officials, when that number exceeds the total vote count is morally wrong. This could swing the race either way. Franken could be ahead after the challenges are resolved (a large percent of both candidates challenges are merit less, Coleman's campaign was so bold to actually state the reason they were challenging a ballot was "frivolous", they couldn't even make up a reason for the challenge- give them points, but not the challenge for honesty!)And if you count the valid, but erroneously rejected absentee ballots it could swing the election from Franken to Coleman, however as much as I don't want to see Coleman re-elected, I and most people (even diehard partisans) want the real winner to win the election.

The one thing I don't understand is why Minnesota doesn't have their machines calibrated to reject over votes (or similar voting errors the machine can pick up) I volunteered in 2004 and 2008 in Iowa as a Democratic poll watcher. I was surprised this year the number of times the machine rejected a ballot. The poll worker (the actual paid workers) would immediately tell the voter to come back and get their ballot, she would then look at the machine to see the reason for the error. Once or twice the reason was the voter failed to circle in the choice (i.e. put a check or X instead of filling in the oval), but about a dozen times (in a precinct of 400 voters) people voted for more than one candidate. The machine indicated it was an over vote, and the race, or if more than one race was an over vote, it indicated multiple. In these situations the voter was given a new ballot, the old ballot was marked defective, and placed in a special envelope, etc. After the fifth time this happened I wondered how these people could be so dumb, thinking how could someone vote for both McCain and Obama, but the head of elections explained that their second vote was a lesser known candidate further down the list of presidential or congressional candidates. While it was still not the brightest move on the voters part, because there were about 10 Presidential candidates, as they got further down the list, they thought it was a new race. If Minnesota's voting machines rejected these over votes at the outset, and the voter was given a new ballot to vote more than half the ballots currently on the ballot challenge (over 1,300 as of yesterday) would have been resolved before the close of the polls.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

J. Ellis, Virginia — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:26:59 GMT

Why is it that when Pres Bush and Secr Paulson told us that the entire economic system would collapse in a week that Congress just layed down, asked no questions and approved a blank check with no oversight and accounting for the money?

Then when the auto industry, that got it's start here in this great country, asks for a loan, not a bailout, Congress gets all Third Reich on us.

This fragile economy cannot afford any more loss of jobs, and failed industries. We're bailing out Iraq and will continue to do so for months and months to come, why not do something to save the Big 3 Auto.

We seem to have become good at gagging on a gnat but swallowing a gorilla with no problem.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

boomer Consumer, Chicago, IL — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:27:03 GMT

Spot on, Pat Huntington in NY!

This economic crisis presents a golden opportunity for social engineering as well as shaping economic policy. Put a cap on all compensation of corporate execs--you want to be a millionaire, fine, but ONLY if your accomplishments justify it and everything over a million gets taxed at 99%. It is obscene to hold assets that exceed what can possibly be spent. Giving the working poor and poverty stricken enough money to make the same meaningful choices about their lives that corporate managers have will eliminate the need for many of the social programs and 'safety nets' that government has had to construct to save them. Strings attached? Of course. We all must be good stewards of what we've been given. But by the same token, US taxpayers cannot afford to give away tax dollars to corporations without a say in how they are spent. (The only way Henry Paulson can ever redeem himself is to take back the billions he unconditionally gave financial institutions, since they haven't put it into the credit markets like they were supposed to.) The Big 3 automakers with hats in hand are now sheepishly trying to convince us they're just like us. They can start by leveling the playing field, becoming instruments of social and economic equality and reducing class distinctions by making us more like them. Let's start by taking them up on their offer to work for $1 a year. We can tell them next year that their days of insane greed are over for good.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

katiec — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:29:53 GMT

We have no choice but to make sure the auto industry does not fail. The number of jobs and spin offs this would affect will be another diaster for our country, one I do not know if we can survive.
There was mismanagement, mistakes and too much of the good ole boy policies, but nothing compared to what the financial institutions have done to us and they got billions of dollars in bailout with no stipulations. They continue their criminal acts with our taxpayer dollars. All remaining funds to them should be frozen until they stop raping the American taxpayers.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

That's a fact Jill — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:35:42 GMT

can everyone say thank you to bush and his republican cronies for running AMERICA into the ditch, today we are less safe than at anytime during our history thanks to bush for destroying AMERICA'S economy
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The economic crisis has been decades in coming. People of both parties are guilty in contributing to it. Wake up.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Reno Will — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:36:01 GMT

Stanley Steamers are gone. So are the original electric cars. Energy inefficient, overpriced, high pollution vehicles don't meet the needs of this nation in these times. How many people can afford environmentally friendly vehicles at a minimum of 35 or 40 thousand dollars? If the big three can't do the job let em go the way of the Stanley Steamer.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Trun Cato — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:36:21 GMT

--> Has anyone ever stopped to think that most of the Honda's, Toyota's, and Nissan's are assembled right here in the good ole' US of A by American workers? <--

Left up to Schumer and Dodd, they'll be sending the Japanese automakers a bail out while denying it to the Big 3.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Nj — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:37:57 GMT

Give the Big 3 the money with HUGE strings attached.
This is a NO BRAINER..

Wall street got Billions and they still go out on 500,000 dollar massages. Paulson pulled the wool over everyones eyes to save his friends. They could give a crap so lets tell the Auto people to go to hell???
NO FAIR

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Mishka Mehrens Anaconda — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:41:26 GMT

I wish we could punish Bush for the poor job as president. I think we should take away any money he earned while he was in office. I don't think I would get paid if I did not do my job. What kind of payment can we give him though for all the lives lost at war. The forclosures. Then to have to hear all about the 2 million dollar home they just bought. Why so big Who would ever want to associate with him. It just makes me sick to my stomache.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Jes S.C. — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:49:59 GMT

And you right wing nut job complain about spreading the wealth. If the CEO's of these big firms put some of the wealth back in the economy than they would need no bail outs. The economy has slow down because trickle down economic did not work, instead it trickle upward to the top and as stated earlier the wealth is in the hands of few, their paws are clinch tight and it's cheaper to outsource. As Mcdaddy stated in Michigan don't look for them to come back. Stop whining from the Graham man. Big B said it wasn't me, I've got mine. The gift that keep on giving. Are we Socialist yet? Please spread the wealth we all could us a little.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

thats a fact jack — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:51:03 GMT

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

J. Ellis, Virginia — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:54:03 GMT

Michael7 Wrote: Instead of bailing out major corporations, why not just give every one who filed a tax return in 2007 $1 million to spend as they like. Not a loan, just give us the money and let's see what happens. It would cost a heckuva lot less than $700 billion! (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:06 AM)

I like your answer very much but I fear this would be far too sensible and simple to work in Washington.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Indie Woman in Denver — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:55:10 GMT

Yes, we only have one president at a time, but when the ACTUAL one is doing NOTHING, the NEXT ONE needs to be telling Paulson what to do, because clearly he doesn't get it. We can give the bank and finance folks all the money in the world, but IF THEY AREN'T PUTTING IT BACK INTO THE ECONOMY (i.e., ACTUALLY LENDING IT OUT), then we're all going to to poor house in a real hurry.

So PLEASE, Barack, JUST TELL Sec Paulson to give the bridge loans (with lots of strings attached) to the automakers and let's get on with getting this economy going again. Regardless of whatever sins the automakers have committed in the past, there are too many jobs for REAL PEOPLE at stake, not to mention our national security.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Diane from Illinois — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:55:52 GMT

Barney Frank needs to bite his lip. How dare he say Obama should be doing more? He's not even sworn in and won't be until January 20th. Yes, I too, wish Bush were gone, but that's nt happening until Jan. 20th, so get a grip and deal with it. Stop pressuring Obama; can you imagine the field day the press would have if he DID start making decisions BEFORE Jan. 20th? Give the guy a break, he will have enough to deal with Jan. 21st.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Elmer, Seattle — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:57:42 GMT

"By the way, Obama's transition team today will be sending out a debt retirement fundraising appeal on behalf of Clinton." Ha Ha Ha I wonder whose idea that was? The first installment of Ol Bill's scheme is starting to play out. This is just the first string that comes with Hillary. It's gonna cost Obama a lot more than this debt retirement to keep her out of the 2012 race.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Lonestarkaty, Rockville — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:00:19 GMT

Just curious, how come the auto makers have not gone to the oil companies that they have been working hand to hand with over the last THIRTY YEARS to get some LOANS and try to give them a chance to invest in GREEN technology. We would be killing to birds with one stone. They could help revamp some factory to bult wind turbines, commits to establishing the gridlines and of course investing in R & D for electric cars and biofuels and we as taxpayers could cap our gas at no more than 8% above cost nationwide and stablize our gas prices under $2.50 a gal.
I am not genius but, should the corporations that swam together getting RICH throw the Lifeline to the one that have fallen overboard.
Just a thought.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

sg, michigan — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:01:35 GMT

After living many years in a GM manufacturing town, I can tell you there is plenty of blame to go around.

Yes, there are many hardworking employees at General Motors. There are plenty of union slackers too. But also as bad is its management. They have continually dragged their feet to provide what consumers really want--for over 30 years!

But we should really address what to do next.

It is sad and uncomfortable to abandon our auto industry. America needs a manufacturing base. Allowing the auto industry fail will further destroy our economy by affecting all businesses associated with it. Assistance now will be cheaper than survival after its collapse.

But on the other hand, we can't prop up an industry which is bound to fail. It will be sorely needed taxpayer cash thrown out the window. Perhaps we should assist the auto industry. But they MUST first provide a business plan that will realistically address its shortcomings.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Ryan, Austin TX — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:02:45 GMT

The US automobile industry is not hurting because of consumer spending. It has been hurting for the last ten years due to labor rates of $10-$20 more an hour than foreign competitors. It ends up being around $2000 more per car on labor alone. That's $2000 they have to cut in accessories which makes them less competitive. Outside of that they have way too many brands and dealerships. The US automobile industry is in a state that no bailout will fix.

Anyone who says we need to bailout the US auto industry because we can't afford to lose domestic made automobiles has no idea what they are talking about. Bankruptcy does not mean the company goes out of business. Chapter 11 is bankruptcy used for restructuring a company. Many companies have filed chapter 11 and are still around. Delta and Northwest have both filed Chapter 11 and both were stronger because of it. Kmart filed for chapter 11 in 2002, came out of it and 2003 and bought Sears in 2004. Chapter 11 does not mean the end of a company by any means.

The concessions the domestic auto industry are agreeing to will affect their overall situation very little. A bailout is simply a lifeline. Filing for chapter 11 will allow them to renegotiate labor contracts that are way out of hand, close excess dealerships, cut brands and make needed mergers. Once they've done that they can be competitive, come out of chapter 11 and be the auto industry we remember and love.

Lao Tzu said, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." It's time our domestic auto industry learned how to fish.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Tim, Harrisburg, PA — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:02:45 GMT

Instead of bailing out major corporations, why not just give every one who filed a tax return in 2007 $1 million to spend as they like. Not a loan, just give us the money and let's see what happens. It would cost a heckuva lot less than $700 billion!
Michael7 (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:06 AM)
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No it wouldn't. Assuming that 150 million people file a tax return, that works out to a handout of $150 TRILLION dollars.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Patriot Level One — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:03:08 GMT

boomer Consumer, Chicago, writes: Spot on, Pat Huntington in NY!

This economic crisis presents a golden opportunity for social engineering as well as shaping economic policy. Put a cap on all compensation of corporate execs--you want to be a millionaire, fine, . . tax at 99% over a million.

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Should we have our military start goose-stepping during parades then too? Let me guess, your favorite color in our flag is Red.

It never ceases to amaze me how much trust leftists like this guy put into a federal centrailized government. Execs and Unions running the auto makers are doing a bad job, the government will so a worse job. Just look at all these self-serving ego driven nitwits in Congress, you want them to figure out how to run a business?

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

JoAnn, Moundsville, WV — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:05:16 GMT

I think the auto industry should get some help, but on the other hand, the heads of the companies seem like they cant't run a business correctly, so in order for the auto companies to get help, they should be made to put new people at the top.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

MSierra, SF — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:06:29 GMT

Food Stamps: '...With so many people out of work, who is going to pay for all the benefits these same liberals are collecting from the government?...'

Gee !!
Maybe we'll have to end the hand outs to Halliburton and Blackwater
End those no bid contracts
Then, we could enacta a windfall profits tax on the Oil companies and let Bush's 'hand outs to the rich' tax cuts expire

That should help

How about ending some of that wasteful military spending
We spend more on war than the rest of the world combined
See what happens when you wrap an American flag around pork barrel spending ?

Hw about ending Presidential pensions ?

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

MSierra, SF — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:13:05 GMT

Paul, Pleasant Ridge, Mich: '...Wow, did anyone actually listen to Dodd, Bayh, Casey, and Carper - or hear Moody's economist Mark Zandi say that the collapse of the Detroit 3 would have a "cataclysmic" effect on the economy?

I watched the entire hearing, and sure seems that the Democrats are determined to find a way to do bridge loans...'

I hope you're right, Paul
It would be cataclysmic to let them fail

I think the Republicans have a hidden anti-union agenda

Henry Paulson wants more hand outs to the banks...
If he gets more funding the Democrats HAVE to add a provision that $39 Billion is for bridge loans to the Big Three

But, we do need a Federal monitor to ensure that the Auto companiew change their direction, fuel efficiency, anti pollution and QUALITY PRODUCTS
Detroit has never focused on quality (forget Quality is Job one jungles)
THAT has to change
The UAW DOES have to give back, especially on laid off workers and some pension benefits

But, this CAN be worked out
Now, you see why Michigan voted so heavily against the Republican
They had it right

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

New American Fascist — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:13:43 GMT

"Food Stamps" is right! a total collapse of the US economy will only hurt liberals. Right wing droolers will be fine! Y is us the only smrt peples?

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Russell Wells, Me. — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:19:41 GMT

Bad day for the big three how about the backbone of this country the American worker who constantly gets screwed while government caters to those who have screwed ous....Seems that there political war chest will be slim if they dont support wall street and the big three......Well you know i could use a bail out also, 50 grand would help, my chances of getting it is nill while pencil pushers and big money people get everything.....You think that the big three who say they will take a 1 odllar salary is going to justify the loan....believe me what they get in sock options and other benefits is more than there salary We all know what congress is going to do, just making it look good to the american people butr the final result will be to give them the bail out....With the unions and others working people depending on this will mean less votes for there reelection..If the dont...You were elected to represent the people and your working maybe 60 days of the years has created this mess because no one is there to overseeing the country while politicians are running around the world...Well if this is the time for a new party when will it be....Now....I say freeze the spending in washington, icluding political salaries along with the spiff till this mess is straigtened out....Talk about the big three in big vehicles, look at washington....Fed up while the rich get richer the middle class now enters the poor class and the poor have no out...I havent heard from my senators or congressman in ref to whats going on, there the ones who should be addressing the issue in there states and keep ous informed....Guess ther set for the next 2 and 6yrs of employment,, i wish those who are paying there bill could say the same...

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Terry, Disabled Vet, Des Moines, IA — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:37:44 GMT

I have to wonder why people want to keep asking if PE Obama is going to get more involved, when we have the dunce in chief who still is the POTUS. OOPS I forgot he went AWOL just like he did for his National Guard Commitment in the 70's!!!! No wonder why we are in the situation we are in FUBAR. Anyone still want to debate about the decider being good for this country?

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

j fl — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:41:12 GMT

This is all about punishing the unions, which have been skewered and broken down in the past 8 yrs. The banks get a free reign handout with no strings attached and now its let punish the unions and make them squirm. Typical republican trick. I say Obama can't get in office soon enough.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Ollie — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:44:34 GMT

How much bailout money will the big oil and drug companies be asking for?

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Paul, Pleasant Ridge, Mich. — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:50:40 GMT

"You must have missed the part where Schumer and Dodd berated the automakers and said they didn't trust them to get the job done, with or without the bail out money. Didn't sound too supportive to me. Even Reid says he's no where near having the votes to pass the bill, so that means many Democrats are not unboard."

Tisha - all due respect, you must have missed the part where Dodd said he was prepared to stay in Washington until an aid package was worked out and the many times he underscored the importance of keeping the Big Three alive; where Schumer suggested various ways to expedite getting bridge loans to the automakers; and, also Reid's comment was about getting the money from TARP.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Ollie — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:51:16 GMT

Michael7, I like your idea. Seriously I beleive it would work.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Lee-- Dallas, TX — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:07:12 GMT

How is it that Wall Street walks, while Detroit gets dogged?

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

JB — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:08:16 GMT

someone will have to explain to me how eric holder is somehow tainted because president clinton pardon some people. i mean, after 8 years of gonzo, the attorney purge, political prosecutions, monica goodling, etc, etc, does anyone think eric holder's role in a couple of presidential pardons are really going to be a big deal? the republicans will have some nerve to make a stink about that especially considering their own recent trainwrecks at DOJ

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

LB, Virginia — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:11:18 GMT

Eugene Robinson used the most hilarious description of what we are suffering from this morning: Bush Derangement Syndrome. BDS. Love it. Also love that Mika showed up this am on MJ as an adult sans the poof ball on her head and wearing something that looked like baby doll pjs.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Food for thought — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:19:49 GMT

Food For Thought on Auto-Bail Out -

We will suffer a national security crisis of epic proportions if the US no longer has a domestic auto industry. We depend on the domestic auto industry to produce military vehicles, and without the auto industry, we will become 100% dependent on forgeign companies to produce our military vehicles. We cannot allow that. Therefore, we MUST bail out the auto industry, but with very real, and severe, conditions placed on the industry to ensure this does not happen again.
Pat Huntington NY (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 9:27 AM)

____________

Pat, the auto industry's link to defense is a very excellent point, and one I dont think enough people (myself included) had thought about.

So, let's take that a step further. Since the military has the most to gain from a continued auto industry, rather than bail the industry out, let's take it out of the hands of corporate executives and gold parachute nonsense, and instead turn it into a department under the Defense Department. Make it a government program, rather than a private business.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

That's a Fact Jill — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:23:00 GMT

been awake for a few decades now and I remember when companies had $ in the bank and treated employees as their greatest asset, then along came leveraging to the hilt brought mostly by no regulation bushits and cronies who bought good companies sold their assets, gave themselves monstrous bonuses and leveraged everything in site, now every business is mortgaged to the hilt and will fail at any problem much like a house of cards and while both parties participated, it WAS MAINLY RETHUGNUTZ so wake up jill and be honest.
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Sorry Jack, but if you want to look at one of the biggest catalysts of today's economic woes look at the push in the '90s of the Democrats toward home loans to everyone, regardless of their qualifications. Both parties are to blame for their parts in today's problems, but keep your blinders on and keep coming up with your clever 'rethugnutz' lines.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Food Stamps — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:37:19 GMT

Food Stamps: '...With so many people out of work, who is going to pay for all the benefits these same liberals are collecting from the government?...'

Gee !!
Maybe we'll have to end the hand outs to Halliburton and Blackwater
End those no bid contracts
Then, we could enacta a windfall profits tax on the Oil companies and let Bush's 'hand outs to the rich' tax cuts expire

That should help.

MSierra, SF

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Well, that would indeed be welcome news for you and the rest of the unemployed. You'd probably get another 6-12 months of government handouts if that happened.

At least you have a plan. Good luck with that.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Demosthenes112358 — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:42:21 GMT

" In fact, the Republican that taps into the small donor enthusiasm of the conservative movement will be the candidate that survives -- not necessarily the one who has the deepest pockets, because we're guessing a self-funding candidate (like Romney?) has seen his net worth drop so much in the last few months that spending his own money will not be an option, period."

Doesn't this presume the existance of a small dollar donor base for the GOP? At least this cycle, I'm not sure there is any evidence to support the idea that the Republicans are even CAPABLE of doing what the Democrats did vis a vis small dollar donors. Democrats have online organizing tools/communities like Dkos, Mydd, Act Blue, Orange to Blue, etc etc. Republicans have... RedState.

Community organizing is the gift that keeps on giving. The foudations of the new Democratic coalition have been worked on from (roughly) 2002 through to 2008. And their work is far from complete. I think it all comes down to the internet being tapped as a resource. The Republicans are ~6 years behind the pace. And in cyber space that is several eternities. It's not insurmountable. But I wouldn't expect a conservative resurgence for a good long time. Especially when the people fighting for the leadership of the conservative movement are Jindal and Palin.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:43:58 GMT

Well, now that we have settled that I am not Anna Molly or Clara I'll proceed.

I still want some specifcs as to how bailing out the auto industries at a 34 Billion dollar clip is going to help the consumers. Credit is dried up so even if GM, Ford and Chrysler would be allowewd to produce cars, what good is that if people are unable to purchase the cars? I see 533,000 people have lost their jobs. There goess 533,000 auto buying customers not to mention thoe still working who can't get credit to purchase a vehicle. And how many of those still working do you think can come up with a sizable down payment or purchase a vehicle for cash.

I suppose my question is why are we bailing out companies who produce a product that people cannot buy?

I understand that if these comapnies go down more people lose their jobs and the economy is hurt even more. But are we not trying to solve this problem by pumping money into the hole of a sinking ship? Or will bailing out these companies help to loosen the current credit crunch? That is the answer I want to know.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Lee in CA — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:44:38 GMT

"How is it that Wall Street walks, while Detroit gets dogged?"

Paulson was the former CEO at Goldman Sachs. The Bush criminal conspiracy is now committing its crimes in plain view, because if they can get away what they've been hiding for 7.8 years, they'll get away with this.

You should hear how he's trying to gut every last environmental protection law. He should be prosecuted for stuffing the EPA and Dept. of Interior with extraction industry lobbyists. These guys make Al capone look like a total piker.

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Seattle Sue — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:53:32 GMT

Ron Indiana+++++Did you see where Toyota sales were down 34%?

First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Andrew P. Kriston — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:54:02 GMT

Michael7, sorry to inform you, but your mathamatic skills need refined. Taking into account that the U.S.A has about 100,000,000 tax payers @ $1,000,000 equal app. $100,000,000,000,000. That is a hundred trillion dollars, not even close to $700 Billion. But it is only a number.