First thoughts: The need for speed

DISHONORABLE ROLAND BURRIS WILL BE A SENATOR ! — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:31:49 GMT

PLAYING THE RACE CARD ALWAYS WINS WITH THE WHITE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS. --- WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND BELIEVED BURRIS WAS A CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE? --- BURRIS SCHEMED WITH BLAGO ON HIS SENATE APPOINTMENT EVEN THOUGH NO PAYOFF WAS INVOLVED. --- SCHEMING WITH BLAGO MAKES BURRIS DISHONORABLE. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

First thoughts: The need for speed

It's all about me — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:35:14 GMT

The Dean snub is easy to understand. Dean set up a strategy that worked well for Obama. He got elected, so he doesn't need him anymore. What's so difficult to get here?

First thoughts: The need for speed

S. Clyde-Stein, Ohio — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:37:13 GMT

Democrats are always accusing the Republicans of using scare tactics to get their legislation through. Democrats are pretty good at it too. Let's see, the government is doing too much deficit spending, so the solution is to spend even more? And if we don't, according to Obama, unemployment will go to over 10%? BOO! What ever happened to that last trillion we put on the countries credit card? How'd that work out for everyone? Oh, but we'll all get a $500 rebate of some sort. That's nice. We're paying half our take home income in taxes, and we're going to get $500 back from the nice Obama man. Big deal.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Way to Go, Dems — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:37:47 GMT

First thoughts: The need for speed

Eric, Salinas, CA — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:38:14 GMT

Confirm Tom Daschle Now! I hope the Senate gets it's act together and gets Daschle confirmed ASAP. He's a good man who got jobbed by the repugnant ones a few years ago.

Harry Reid is the wimp who won't go away. His gutless leadership has allowed the bushwhacker to get away with too much nonsense. He always starts out whining about something and then caving in when the going gets tough. He needs to grow a pair and start telling the bushwhacker and his repugnant one's cronies to buzz off.

Confirm Daschle!

First thoughts: The need for speed

John Harris, Chicago — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:39:17 GMT

Harry Reid got smacked down good by Obama. Who's your daddy Harry? Pretty soon Harry will be Baracks' loyal lapdog, like he's not already. Fetch Harry! Go get me my votes.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Mr. Peanut — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:41:35 GMT

Our first two posts here today obviously put the "nut" in "wingnut"!

First thoughts: The need for speed

Eric, Salinas, CA — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:42:16 GMT

Congress should not release the second half of the TARP money until Obama gets into office so he can dispense it far more wisely than the bushwhacker and his incompetent team of economic morons has.

Is the media once again making mountains out of molehills with this Dean snubbing nonsense? Ofcourse they are as the media has to hype up stories in order to keep people reading and watching. Too bad the media, especially Fixed Noise, doesn't get back to a more adult approach to reporting.

Confirm Daschle!

First thoughts: The need for speed

Dookie — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:44:27 GMT

I loved the posting yesterday showing various numbers from when President Bush took office until now. Tell you what...look at the number from Jan 2001 to Dec 2006 (when Republicans held Congress) and then look at the numbers from Jan 2007 until now...

DJIA when Bush took over...10,587
DJIA Before Dems took over Congress...12,463 12/29/2006).
DJIA Today...9,015.

Unemployment when Bush took over...4.2%
Unemployment before Dems took over Congress...4.4% (Dec 2006).
Unemployment now...6.7%

So if we're going to blindly look at numbers, let's include everything.

First thoughts: The need for speed

MSierra, SF — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:45:02 GMT

'...he basic argument is that Palestinian terrorists represented by Hamas are given to an irrational hatred of Jews so profound that it invalidates their movement, even when they win elections. That was not the view of the Israeli security service when it earlier supported Hamas as the alternative to the then dreaded PLO. Also, history is replete with examples of terrorists becoming statesmen, even within the early ranks of Jews fighting to establish the state of Israel.

One of those was Menachem Begin, who went on to be an elected leader of the new state. But before attaining that respectability, back in 1948 when Begin visited the United States, a group of prominent Jewish intellectuals including Albert Einstein, Sidney Hook and Hannah Arendt wrote a letter to the New York Times warning that Begin was a former leader of the "Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine." The letter urged Jews to shun Begin, arguing, "It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents."...'

Begin was responsible for the massacre of Deir Yessim where over 300 men, women, AND CHILDREN were murdered
He was also responsible for the King David Hotel bombing, later saying he 'only regretted he Jewish deaths'

Israelis also elected terrorist Prime Ministers in Yitzhak Shamir (who authorized the assassination of the United Nations representative in the Middle East, Count Folke Bernadotte)
and Ariel Sharon (founder of "Unit 101" that massacred 66 innocent civilians during a cross-border raid into the Jordanian village of Qibya in 1953)

From SFGate.com:

'...Robert Scheer
Why do so few speak up for Gaza?
Wednesday, January 7, 2009

Why are we so indifferent to the death and destruction in Gaza?

The major news outlets meekly accepted Israel's ban on entering Gaza as an excuse for downplaying collateral civilian casualties, our president-elect, Barack Obama, has said not a word about an invasion that will much complicate his future Mideast peace efforts, and most commentators easily rationalize Israel's many more eyes-for-an-eye killings.

How is it that there is such widespread acceptance, beginning with the apologetics of President Bush, that whatever Israel does is always justified as necessary to the survival of the Jewish state?

It is not.

While the Hamas rocket attacks are reprehensible, they are also an ineffectual challenge to Israel's enormous security apparatus, and the severity of Israel's response to them is counterproductive. Clearly, the very existence of Israel is not now, nor has it ever been, seriously challenged by anything the Palestinians did. Not back in 1947, when Israel was established as a state with insignificant Palestinian military resistance, nor at the time of the 1967 Six Day War when Egypt, Syria and Jordan fought Israel.

The Palestinians were in no position to confront the Israeli army, because those whose lands were not already occupied by Israel were living under oppressive Egyptian control in Gaza and tough Jordanian rule in the West Bank. After the speedy Israeli victory, which demolished the myth of the new state's vulnerability, the Palestinians became imprisoned as a people by Israel for crimes they had not committed.

Even if we accept the harshest portrayal of the tactics and motives of the Palestinian movements against Israel after the Six Day War, at what point did that terrorism represent a serious challenge to the survival of the Jewish people or the state that claims to speak in their name? Yet that survival is invoked to justify the vastly excessive use of force by the Israeli war machine, with frequent allusions to the Holocaust previously visited upon the Jewish people, a holocaust that had nothing to do with Palestinians or Muslims, and everything to do with Central Europeans claiming to be Christians.

The high moral claim of the Israeli occupation rests not on the objective reality of a Palestinian threat to Israel's survival, but rather on the non sequitur cry that "never again" should harm come to Jews as it did in Central Europe seven decades ago.

The basic argument is that Palestinian terrorists represented by Hamas are given to an irrational hatred of Jews so profound that it invalidates their movement, even when they win elections. That was not the view of the Israeli security service when it earlier supported Hamas as the alternative to the then dreaded PLO. Also, history is replete with examples of terrorists becoming statesmen, even within the early ranks of Jews fighting to establish the state of Israel.

One of those was Menachem Begin, who went on to be an elected leader of the new state. But before attaining that respectability, back in 1948 when Begin visited the United States, a group of prominent Jewish intellectuals including Albert Einstein, Sidney Hook and Hannah Arendt wrote a letter to the New York Times warning that Begin was a former leader of the "Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine." The letter urged Jews to shun Begin, arguing, "It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents."

Begin's new party was then participating in the Israeli election, and Einstein and his colleagues, many of whom like him had been victims of German fascism, stated, "Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character."

Those actions were then detailed in the letter. They included the systematic terrorizing of innocent Palestinian men, women and children in an effort to force them to flee the territory that Begin's party claimed for the new state of Israel.

Clearly Begin and his political heirs, who include Benjamin Netanyahu, the most likely victor in the next Israeli election, evolved in their behavior. But I bring it up now to highlight the one-sided reporting of the current phase of this interminable conflict and to wonder: Where are the voices that reflect the uncompromising morality of Einstein's generation of Jewish intellectuals willing to acknowledge fault and humanity on both sides of the political equation?...'

First thoughts: The need for speed

Sandra Kemper, Mitchell SD — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:45:37 GMT

Daschle is just another dirty Democrat. Not as bad as the ones from Chicago, but dirty just the same. He's a Senator. He's a Lobbyist. He's a Senator. He's a Lobbyist. What he is depends on the day of the week I guess.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Ann in Va — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:46:53 GMT

FR, If you have no idea why Dean is not at today's meeting, why the snubbing insinuation?

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Ron Indiana — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:46:56 GMT

I know MSNBC is the place for politics, but to me it looks like the big news of the day is Israel now has fighting on two fronts: Gaza and Lebanon. My guess is Obama will not follow the Bush approach, but try to be more neutral (similar to Clinton) and try to broker a peace. Things are heating up and it is not good.

As I follow the news, I read a lot of nonsense. For example, with a strong cabinet, will the secretaries fight amoung themselves? Is the bail-out too big? Is it too small? Is Obama snubbing Dean? I'm coming to the conclusion that the pundits and "analysts" are just filling up air space. I really would like to see some more thoughtful questions and answers based on facts, not opinions.

First thoughts: The need for speed

MSierra, SF — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:51:54 GMT

'...So if Congress can agree -- but delay the release of the funds -- it could get done before the inauguration. But can the financial industry handle the TARP money being delayed until after the Obama stimulus plan is passed in mid-February?...'

Can those spa visits wait?
How long until those CEOs get their bonuses ?
This has the makings of a real tragedy...

No funds until Paulson is gone.....

Blago is a better Governor than SchwartzenNothing
At least Blago got a budget passed
We STILL don't have one (it was due in July)

SchwartzenNothing has his own 'Pay to Play'
He wants to open state construction work to a company that his top aid worked for...

PAY TO PLAY ??
Oh Arnold ....

First thoughts: The need for speed

lupercal — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:56:00 GMT

could you get off my back fellas? the gators will be legit champions and if they somehow lose, then ou will be.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Pat, Boston, MA — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:57:13 GMT

President Jimmy Carter wrote an article in today's Washington Post, wherein he lays out WHY this war in Gaza could have been avoided.

But because he's a Democrat, no one listens to him. We have unspeakable horrors coming out of Gaza now. Unspeakable.

And now Israel will have war crimes they will have to deal with soon.

I haven't read the article as yet, but I saw where the cover of Time Magazine has the title: Why Israel Can't Win.

The cover should have been: Why The Palestinians Can't Win.

They never could. No one gave a damn. And if this war doesn't prove it, nothing will.

Stupid stubborn weak lying leaders all over the world. Everywhere.

But hey, it's not the first time, and you can be damn sure it won't be the last. Thank goodness we have people and agencies in this world who are trying to find out the truth on this crisis and getting it out, instead of blindly believing everything they hear.

Bless you Jimmy Carter.

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Seattle Sue — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:58:36 GMT

FR==Why are you printing an article on snubbing,when you are guessing. I thought you were reporters and reported facts. Sandra Kemper, Mitchell SD++++++I assume you are a Republican, if you are how can you complain about Democrats as dirty after eight years of Bush and Republican running our country into the ground?

First thoughts: The need for speed

jawillie, Philadelphia, PA. — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:59:16 GMT

>>>I loved the posting yesterday showing various numbers from when President Bush took office until now. Tell you what...look at the number from Jan 2001 to Dec 2006 (when Republicans held Congress) and then look at the numbers from Jan 2007 until now...

DJIA when Bush took over...10,587
DJIA Before Dems took over Congress...12,463 12/29/2006).
DJIA Today...9,015.

Unemployment when Bush took over...4.2%
Unemployment before Dems took over Congress...4.4% (Dec 2006).
Unemployment now...6.7%

So if we're going to blindly look at numbers, let's include everything.
Dookie (Sent Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:44 AM)

==========
I also love how whenever the sore-losers bring up this "Democrats controlled congress from 06-08" argument they fail to mention that Dems had only a minimal majority, or that the Republicans filibustered everything the Democrats tried to push through in order to purposely create gridlock, or that Bush vetoed just about every Democratic or bi-partisan bill that was sent to him.

Yeah, keep on cherry-picking those facts. If that's what gets you to sleep at night, more power to you.

12 Days Until Inauguration Day!
http://jawillie.blog.com

First thoughts: The need for speed

Spinout — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:00:47 GMT

From one Republican to another ....

Happy Birthday Elvis.

First thoughts: The need for speed

jesse St.Paul Minnesota — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:01:33 GMT

I would hope we learned one thing about the first 350 billion,it was given away like bonus's to the big bankers.The money was not used for what they said it was needed for,,or the sky would fall.I think Paulsen should jump on the Bush train and get out of town while he still has his skin.Jaail would wipe those sh&ting grins off there faces.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Illinois Guy — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:06:03 GMT

MSierra - Blago is a better Governor than SchwartzenNothing At least Blago got a budget passed

He did? When did that happen? At last look, Illinois had a $5 billion or so budget deficit. Chicago is broke too, so much so that they stopped plowing the streets. Not all Blago's fault though, the Democrats that control the state house and senate take a big part of that blame too.

First thoughts: The need for speed

J. Ellis, Virginia — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:06:52 GMT

Harry Reid is showing his true colors more and more as the days go by. He capped it when he said that he doesn't work for PE Obama. WHAT? Now he has egg on his face about the Burris appointment. As Majority Leader, Reid is showing how few leadership skills he possesses.

Regarding TARP, the Bush Admin. is clueless about how to handle that money and should leave the remaining funds to the Obama team to manage. When our economy is tanking, and joblessnes is rising, and a current administration that has no crediibity, it makes absolutely no sense for Laura Bush to purchase W.H. china that cost over $450K at tax payers expense.

Bush, hatchet man that he is, should not be paid a penny in pension or other compensation until our country and economy is back on track. There should be no reward for bad leadership.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Nate the Skate — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:09:26 GMT

The Presidential Club photo reminds me of a Dylan song from the "Self Portrait" album called "All The Tired Horses."

First thoughts: The need for speed

Susan L., Redmond, WA — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:12:26 GMT

That First Read author who's a Longhorn Homer needs to get over it and grow the hell up.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Amy C., GA — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:13:39 GMT

The Presidential Club photo reminds me of a Dylan song from the "Self Portrait" album called "All The Tired Horses."

Nate the Skate

It was nice that they got the President, the PE, and all the other living Presidents together. Carter was there too!

First thoughts: The need for speed

Dookie — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:13:44 GMT

jawillie...

So pulling stats from 2006 to 2008 is cherry-picking but pulling stats from 2000 to 2008 isn't? My point isn't that Dems are at fault. My point is really twofold...First, I don't believe that politicians (President or Congress) have as much power over the economy as most people think. Second, taking point in time statistics without context is meaningless.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Priscilla P — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:14:45 GMT

This economy has me all shook up.

Where's the King when you need him?

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Mark Murray — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:17:20 GMT

Susan L. -- We were just having a little light-hearted fun on a not-so serious topic. Thanks for reading.

First thoughts: The need for speed

marty,columbia.s.c. — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:18:42 GMT

Why would congress give Hank Paulson another penny, they can wait for an additional few days. Hank Paulson and his cronies have already done away with 350 billion dollars and we have no idea where it went.
You know we are being hoodwinked, why arnt our representatives protecting us, and why wont you people out there vote all these bums out, and I dont just mean the republicans, we have some dems that need to go home badley, some of them to jail also.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Pacxheck, Huntington Beach, Ca. — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:24:57 GMT

If all we need is speed, then we are toast. Congress is not capable of doing anything fast except voting themselves a raise or breaking for a vacation. That is just a fact.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Nashville_fan — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:28:26 GMT

"But there will be one notable absence -- Howard Dean, the current DNC chair. Dean is reportedly traveling today to American Samoa, but had he been invited to participate at today’s event, those travel plans could always be rescheduled. Why wasn’t Dean invited? Your guess is as good as ours." - First Read
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What a shameless and transparent attempt to create drama where there isn't any. But, just for the sake of argument, let's say that everything you are implying is true - what difference does it make?

Here is a suggestion: let's ALL work really hard in 2009 to keep our eyes on what is really going on and not let boredome with the details lead us to try and gin up drama for our own entertainment.

Isn't that the real lesson of the Iraq war? Didn't the media spend more time digging into Bill Clinton's personal life than it did into all the demonstrable lies the Bush admistration has been telling us all these years?

It's not sexy, but we are all big kids now. Time to do the hard work of minding the store and balancing the checkbook, and quit trying to peek into our neighbor's bedrooms and easedrop on their calls.

I know that NBC news can rise to that challenge. It was Tim Russert's last wish.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Pat Huntington NY — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:32:29 GMT

DC Statehood or Bust! That should be the chant at the electoral college vote count. Not. Just kidding. I find that part of the blog somewhat funny. But think about it, should DC be the 51st state, then the Feds, and hence, all us Federal Taxpayers, no longer need to help foot the tax bill for the city...it will be completely on its own!

First thoughts: The need for speed

Anonymous, Do Some Reporting, MSNBC — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:35:22 GMT

There is a countdown to election 2010?

What editor allowed that to go to print? I realize you guys live in the politosphere, but I don't really think that your average reader cares to see a daily countdown to election day 2010.......

First thoughts: The need for speed

Rob, from Iowa — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:41:04 GMT

From my perspective, the best thing Obama could do is to slash taxes across the board and watch money rush back into the market. Slash or suspend Cap Gains for 1-2 years. Suspend Dividend Tax for 1-2 years. Slash corporate taxes to levels on par with Europe. That's for starters ...

First thoughts: The need for speed

Pat Huntington ny — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:46:35 GMT

People in other posts to other articles have been saying thing got bad after the Dems took over Congress. First, the Dems did not take over congress in 2006 because they only had a 1 vote Majority in the Senate, the Repukes threatened to filibuster everything, and Bush vetored almost anything the Dems could get passed. Second, the current problems started before the Dems won their 2006 majorities. And third, the President, not Congress, is the Executive Leader of this Country, and thus, is the moral compass of the US, and is supposed to lead the Congress into his/her policies. Bush didn't do a single thing in this regard to until it was too late. Obama, on the other hand, is showing extreme leadership by attacking the economy head one. Sorry, but the liberal bashing doesn't work anymore!

First thoughts: The need for speed

paul — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:49:45 GMT

Dookie

The only point you are making is that you think like a child.

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jbentley — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:52:05 GMT

The BCS blows. No doubt about that.

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newdayDawning — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:05:15 GMT

For the good of the country, Henry Reid needs to step down as Senate Majority Leader NOW!

First thoughts: The need for speed

Jackson, Seattle — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:11:42 GMT

Could Democrats really not come up with anyone better than Harry Reid to 'lead'? Could he really not see that he was going to have to cave on Burris? I give him a lot of credit though, he stood his ground firmly for 24 hours.
Way to Go, Dems (Sent Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:37 AM)
____________

Yeah better we should take the example set by Dole and Gingrich and, when we don't get our way, we just bring the government to a screeching halt for several days. Yeah, that's impressive leadership.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Tek Jansen, saving the world — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:12:34 GMT

Hey Prisicilla, do you know the difference between "Spinout" and "Speedway"? In Spinout, Elvis plays a singing race car driver, in Speedway he plays a race car driver who sings.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Jackson, Seattle — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:13:56 GMT

First thoughts: The need for speed

Dave Ithaca NY — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:14:49 GMT

I would concur that conggress should not release the second half of the TARP funds until Obamma is in office and accounability in place. A few days won't make a huge differance the banks can do their part by lowering credit card ratesto the teaser rates customers were lured in with.
Speaking about lured in anybody would be a fool to thing there are not any more crinimals out there looking to steal billions and the Bushies theory of not upholding the law at any costs made it much easier for armed robbery with a wepon mighter than the sword ,the pen, to happen.
By the way where is Sars P. when we need a good laugh, looking over the waters to russia?

First thoughts: The need for speed

Jackson, Seattle — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:17:50 GMT

So pulling stats from 2006 to 2008 is cherry-picking but pulling stats from 2000 to 2008 isn't? My point isn't that Dems are at fault. My point is really twofold...First, I don't believe that politicians (President or Congress) have as much power over the economy as most people think. Second, taking point in time statistics without context is meaningless.

Dookie (Sent Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:13 AM)
__________

Tell that to the Republicans who practically elevated Reagan to sainthood over "Reaganomics"...has any other president ever been as deified in that capacity? Seems to me, when you have Republicans in control of either the Presidency or Congress, and there is even the slightest amount of fiscal gain, it is all because of them....except when it takes a downturn, then they will either point at the other party or say congress has no power over it at all.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Sick of the Republican lies — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:23:20 GMT

Hey S clyde Stein in Ohio...paying half your pay in taxes...to do that you need taxable income in excess of 500K to hit the 50% mark...try again joe the plumber/war correspondant

First thoughts: The need for speed

jawillie, Philadelphia, PA. — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:29:59 GMT

>>>My point isn't that Dems are at fault.

Dookie (Sent Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:13 AM)
==========
Oh really? Well you could have fooled me. Especially since you went out of your way to only cite figures between 2006 and 2008 when the Democrats were "in the majority" as you put it.

While I'll concede the point that Washington doesn't have any magical power over the economy, their policies can affect it. When it adopts policies that are designed to help only a few at the expense of many (like tax breaks for the rich), spends $10m yearly on a war that didn't need to be waged, rewards its cronies with pork-barrel perks at the expense of hard working taxpayers, and ignores the poorest among us, all of that DOES affect the economy as it affects the average persons ability to contribute. True, we can play with numbers all we want. But however you factor them, the Bush administration was a FAILURE, and that failure starts at the top.

12 Days Until Inauguration Day!
http://jawillie.blog.com

First thoughts: The need for speed

Deaniac, Burlington, Vermont — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:39:28 GMT

Come see Howard Dean at DemocracyFest! http://www.DemocracyFest.net

First thoughts: The need for speed

Dookie — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:40:24 GMT

jawillie...the point of the MSNBC blog posting yesterday was taking point in time numbers from before Bush took and comparing them to right now. I am merely saying that you can do the same thing by taking numbers from before the Dems took over Congress to now...but in neither case can the numbers by themselves paint the full picture. I agree that there are things that Congress and the President can do to mitigate the effects of a downturn in the economy...no question about that. Governmental spending certainly factors into that equation. But for the most part, the economy is a cyclical beast. Just look at a historical graph of the S&P 500. It has a valley of some sort about every 4-7 years.

Interesting that everyone is coming after me because I'm not repeating Democratic talking points concerning Bush. I personally don't think he was a good President. I believe a lot of the criticism he received is over the top though. I hope that Obama does well and that his economic team can find ways to mitigate this downturn.

First thoughts: The need for speed

joe from austin — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:41:28 GMT

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Richard, Washington State — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:48:29 GMT

Do not disburse the $350 billion in TARP funds and cut the "stimulus" package in half or eliminate it all together.

There, I saved the taxpayers anywhere from $737 billion to just over a trillion.

Or substitute the $350 billion in TARP funds for the "stimulus" package, using it only to extend unemployment benefits and provide emergency health care and rent assistance.

There, I saved the taxpayers $775 billion.

Then let the other 92% of the economy that is still working and functioning bring us through along with the charity and goodwill that characterizes all of us.

Did the last stimulus package work? I think not and there is no reason to think this one will either.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Richard, Washington State — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:55:38 GMT

Dookie:

Your biggest problem here is that you make sense. There is no better way to earn enmity among FR amateur pundits than to make sense. I think it's because it simply rocks their world in a way they just can't relate to.

In fact, you'll notice that jawillie conceded one point and went into back-up behavior with the standard litany.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Richard, Washington State — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:59:50 GMT

Hey, Sick of Republican Lies:

Federal taxes, local taxes, sales taxes, payroll taxes, real estate taxes, access taxes, gasoline taxes, luxury taxes, trucking taxes, transportation taxes, hotel and motel taxes, cable and communication taxes, "tax freedom day".

Familiarize yourself with these and you'll see where Mr. Stein is coming from.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Auntie Fascist — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:05:46 GMT

Hey, Dookie, can you name anything the fool did right? And, don't give me this "we weren't attacked after 9/11" crap unless you can justify giving him a gimme putt for 3,000+ deaths ON 9/11!

First thoughts: The need for speed

H&R Block — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:07:04 GMT

Clyde in OH, not in federal income taxes you're not!

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Tim, Harrisburg — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:12:23 GMT

Mr. Todd no offense but you are such a sycophant for Obama, try to hide it a little more. "Consequences of doing too little or nothing at all, for that will lead to an even greater deficit of jobs, incomes, and confidence in our economy". Your proof being? Are you saying it is better to have a bigger budget deficit than a job deficit? What exactly is a job deficit? The market needs to correct itself and reallocate jobs and capital into more efficient sectors not more spending by the federal government.
joe from austin (Sent Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:41 AM)

*************************

Joe, you do realize that he was QUOTING from what Obama's speech is to contain? I.e., he was reporting the information, you know, like what a ... reporter ... does.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Dave Rogers, Spokane, WA — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:15:09 GMT

So let's say, in this little metaphor, that the problem is that there's no bridge over a river. So what do we do? I know! We shall give everybody a dollar. Ok, now everybody has a dollar, so what's the problem? The problem is that there's no bridge over the river... so what shall we do? Well, lets give a dollar to all the rich people. Okay, now all the rich people have another dollar. Now the problem is that there's no bridge over the river. Whatever shall we do? I know! let's give a dollar to all the poor people. Now all the poor people have a dollar... and now the problem is that there's no bridge over the water.

This economic crisis was not caused by a lack of cash, and throwing cash at it is not a solution.

This problem was caused by predatorial borrowing and lending.. and EVERY attempt at fixing it has been centered on getting credit "flowing again", which at best, will delay the inevitable problem.

Reduced borrowing and lending is not the problem, the problem is that we have been using too much margin... same problem we had in 1929... and Barry Obama doesn't have a clue.

1. Jail Bernie Madoff. That's one way to signal the end of economic predation. The other Bernies will be watching.
2. Rein in the credit industry. It will work fine once it finds its level. We need limits on interest rates, on punitive payments, and what the money can be used for.
3. Stop giving out pretend money. We're just printing money. Woe unto the guy who just prints money. Our own government is in the counterfeiting business.

There are a lot more ways we could actually be dealing with the problems, but these three are the most imperative.

Especially number one. You'd have to be an idiot to do any investing while Bernie Madoff is free... The other Bernies are still out there.

But reining in the credit industry is the solution.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Valerie — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:27:44 GMT

Why is Congress still pushing to give the rest of the Tarp money to wall st. I just don't understand the reasoning or the need, I feel that they need to pay bak the money that was received, because is wasn't used for the purpose is ws given.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Rob, from Iowa — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:31:32 GMT

Folks, it is not about Dem or Repub, it is about Liberty.

Let's look at how we got here:
1977 - Carter passes the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977.
1990's - Interest rates fell to new lows, and seduced by "cheap" money Clinton expanded the program.
2000's - Democrats further expanded the program in the 2000's. Lenders did not want to lend to these people, yet these new "regulations" forced these lenders to "securitize" these mortgages.
2008 - home prices adjusted. Then these securities, so intertwined with good and bad mortgages, collapsed in value. And the credit market freaks.

(Actions by both the Fed and Congress helped to get us here)

Folks, it was government meddling ("regulations") that helped to get us here. "Regulations" are rules or laws which can either discourage or encourage an activity. Any future regulations that are passed need to encourage COMPETITION. COMPETITION is the surest way to garauntee LIBERTY. Democracy is not the ends, but rather the means by which liberty may flourish.

First thoughts: The need for speed

Rob, from Iowa — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:35:14 GMT

I find it very odd, not really, that everything now is a "crisis". I don't trust the gov as far as I can throw it, but we get even worse legislation when things "need" to be passed quickly.

And Joe from austin, Here, here.