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JOHNNY JUSTICE ANYWHERE USA — Wed, 23 May 2007 13:38:46 GMT

GOOD MORNING MONICA, LET'S HEAR WHAT "YOU" HAVE TO SAY ABOUT "GONZO GATE". WELL REALLY....HE SAID WHAT?

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Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA — Wed, 23 May 2007 13:55:10 GMT

Why is a focus group of 12 even in the news? Its such a small sample... how could it be significant? Especially when its results contrast so sharply with national polls? From what I've seen of focus groups, the first step is to ensure the group reflects the electorate as closely as possible, and it seems evident this one didn't. That said, I don't disagree strongly with any of its findings. Obama is a guy who appeals to those wanting a vision candidate. Guiliani is a guy who appeals to those wanting protection (though I'm guessing that will wane when people start to figure out he really doesn't know much about national security). And Clinton certainly will never appeal to those who already don't think they can trust her. That's her problem - those high negatives aren't going away. In fact, she may well be the first candidate of the bunch from either party who reaches the point of mathematical unelectability.

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Stephen Banick, Scottsdale, AZ. — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:03:16 GMT

Your lead blog ("Rudy Obama, Barack Giuliani") obliquely suggests - quite correctly - that a sizeable number of Americans crave a new political force; a hybrid/third/independent party unbeholden to the polarized, partisan ideologies of the anachronistic Democratic and Republican machines. Indeed, such a bold move would take money and time, especially with the two majors controlling the FEC and FCC appointees who set the bar for third party access (note: America has the most stringent third-party access requirements of any industrialized, democractic country). However, there is no reason to think that seasoned pragmatists such as a Hagel (R) or a Biden (D) cannot - and will not - soon coalesce around such a hybrid vehicle (pun incidental). Sometimes, "critical mass" can be reached very quickly; and the donors are always there if the timing is right and the wind blowing the right direction.

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:03:43 GMT

Hillary does have a problem. Bay Buchanan was on a local talk show here this morning and she told a very interesting story about how Chelsea was out jogging and stopped off for a coffee near the world trade center when the planes hit. Hillary told a crowd that she was indeed very sad that her daughter was right in the area and very happy that she came thru the attacks unscathed. Now there is a story about how Chelsea was really in her apartment when the planes hit and her friends were calling her screaming "look at the TV, Look at the TV". No wonder Hillary has problems. I wonder how much Edwards is being paid for his speech and will this bring more then 75 people? If I were Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, I owuld get the cookies in the oven and the kool aid mixed up and the blankets standing by just in case the code pink chicks show up at their office or house. Remember Soros, this was your hand picked crowd that you bought to get into congress and they seem to have turned on you. The american people will not tolorate a hungarian trying to buy the election.

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Darren, MB, SC — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:09:03 GMT

I am reading this morning that Senators are to be hard at work on the "illegal immigration" bill. After seeing Americans' outrage they have decided to make it "tougher". How? By adding a provision that includes mandatory prison sentences for those caught crossing the border illegally. Sorry. Not enough. It does not address the 12-20 million who are already here. They fail to explain why we should believe they will enforce this new provision when they haven't enforced current law. This bill does not in any way address the current problem. It sweeps it under the rug and then gives empty promises to "do better" at enforcement in the future. Meanwhile, we are giving our country away. We are hurting our children's education. We are driving up the already astronomical cost of health care. Do any of you realize that there are actually hospitals that have SHUT DOWN because they could not continue to provide free health care to illegals? Americans who support this bill seem to be perilously naive. While they are obssessed with sex, food, entertainment and political correctness, they seem be blissfully unconcerned with our very survival. American Idol seems vastly more important to many people than our national sovereignty. The reason why we have immigration laws in the first place seems far over their heads. If we say to the world that we are turning a blind eye to as many as 20 million lawbreakers who violated our laws when entering the country, what effect do you think it will have? Will anyone fear this new bill and decide that maybe they shouldn't try a run for the border? This will be the 2nd time we have done such a thing in the last 20 years. Each time we promise to get tougher millions more come and we do nothing but make their crimes profitable. Now there's a real deterrent. This bill will only encourage many more to come here illegally. By many estimates in another 20 years we could have as many as 30-60 million more crossing our borders. That my friends will be the end of America. Count on it. The vast majority of these illegals are not coming here to assimilate and become Americans. They could care less. They are not coming to add to our country, they are coming to take from it. A highly contagious new idea has crept into our thinking. It offers fantasy instead of reality and completely disregards any threat to our survival as a nation. If we don't stand up now, in another generation there will be nothing left to stand up for.

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Darren, MB, SC — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:15:10 GMT

Stephen Banick, I believe the time is right for a third party to rise in America. We are perhaps as polarized as we've been at any time in our history except for the civil war era. If not now, when? Jerry, I don't know if Edwards is being paid to speak before the COFR, but he normally gets about $55,000 for his public speaking engagements. When he speaks at government funded universities it is our money that pays him.

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CJ — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:25:14 GMT

For once I agree with you on some levels Darren. But I also think a majority of today's congress is just from a disconnected generation and they don't understand the magnitude of illegal aliens comming here. They are 5 yrs behind the rest of the country. I see immigrants everyday, scores...down here in the south. They are always doing menial jobs/hard labor. It's creating a perminent underclass that lives in the shadows/undocumented. Unless you know spanish you can't communicate with them. It's not right and yet big business condones and promotes it. This is a perversion of the labor market and a violation of our laws. And the effects will have profound implications on our country and culture within a few years down the road. I believe you'll see a huge "alien's rights" movement within the next 10 yrs where business with be paralized by strikes/protests. Tommorrow's America will look very different in the near future...but maybe it's inevitable.

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jus sayin — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:28:00 GMT

I get a good laugh at all who want somehing done about lawbreakers when everyone of you has broken the law yourselves be it minor or major and just haven't been caught yet, so remember when you get caught you asked for it so dont whimper and whine when its your turn.

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CJ — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:37:47 GMT

The only Democrats I fell good about our Obama, Biden, Richardson. Edwards is just a rich lawyer who probably has always had presidential aims even before he planted himself in the Senate. There is nothing wrong with that but he often seems like he cannot think beyond Democratic politics. And Hillary prefers to use her position to push her personnal programs/agendas, personnally I love her, but we've seen what that has resulted in with the current president and Hillary Care. Republicans..I would pick McCain and Romney(gulp). McCain because he's been there done that..everyone pretty much knows what his politics are(middle) even though he has attempted to pander to the social conservatives. Romney is a similar animal except he conceals his true opinions behind politically popular positions, but I suspect he would govern from his core beliefs(not what he publicly states) as a center-right politician. Fred Thompson appears to be rather open minded himself but he doesn't seem like the type of character to commit himself to such a stressful position.

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Darren, MB, SC — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:40:50 GMT

Ok, jus sayin, maybe you won't whimper or whine when our nation is irreversably changed and the rights you have today disappear. You are comparing apples to oranges. I can see that you don't understand why we have laws concerning immigration. Maybe you think we should just open the door and let in any and everyone who wishes to come here? Have you really stopped to think about the effect of 1.5 million or more undocumented people entering our country every year? When you can come back with an intellegent arguement that explains how this is acceptable and will benefit our nation, let me know. Pointing to illegal activity by some does not excuse illegal activity by all.

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CJ — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:41:48 GMT

Yea but I'm an US citizen, pay taxes, am not prone to modern day indentured servitude. The two do not equate. Why do people act like illegal immigration is passe'...I'll never understand.

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MK,MO — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:42:17 GMT

Looks like the focus group (12 people what a joke)passed the crack pipe around too many times. Gulliani and steve forbes present more of a real danger to america than any terrorist group could. Their platform of take from the poor give to the rich should scare hell out of any real american, are you really safe if your starving to death?

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John B, Des Moines, IA — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:44:41 GMT

Jerry, what's the source for your Hillary story? Is it confirmed by real sources or just something you heard from Michael Savage? Don't sell Edwards short. If there weren't something there for the GOP to be afraid of they wouldn't be working so hard to destroy his image. Likewise to First Read, who organized this focus group? Who drafted the questions and exactly what were the questions? I could pull together a focus group right now that would reach a consensus that GWB should be impeached and another that would agree that the Democratic Congress is increasing the probability of a terrorist attack in the US.

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Just the facts man — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:47:33 GMT

jus sayin, if I were to commit a crime and get caught, I would be prosecuted. I would not have the Senate forgiving my crime, telling me I don't have to pay back taxes on any proceeds I received while commiting my crime, giving me access to free legal counsel, and telling my family members that it will be OK if they commit the same crime.

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Brad, Albion OK — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:54:05 GMT

I think we need more than three parties. Imagine a sport that has only two teams. Of course those teams would end up being bitter rivals. If we had say… ten parties or so, things would probably be more “sportsmanlike”. We could have the Monarchs, the Socialists, the Evangelicals, the Socialists, the Capitalists, the Communists, ect. We could even have playoffs.

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Nate Ervin — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:54:46 GMT

Our elected U.S. government officials and, in many cases, our elected state officials are so out of touch with with the citizens of this once great country. They seem to live in their larval cells while enjoying the "Good Life." They are unable to fathom what everyday, real life is all about or they just don't want to know. I firmly believe they should recieve and pay for, the same pricely health care, groceries and other necessities that "we the people" receive and pay for. They are spoiled rotten and frankly, these elected officials don't look any better in their #50.00 to #100.00 hair dos. As an American by birth I have, for forty five years, been the best American I can be. I was a soldier for seven years, I have voted in every National election for forty five years and on each day at rising I have gotten out of bed praying for the health and well being of our country. I have been very disappointed.

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Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:04:53 GMT

What? No Hillary McCain? Where is the dichotomous humor in this world?

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MK,MO — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:12:17 GMT

CJ, edwards is the only one who can win the general election, from what I gather edwards is the only person currently on the planet that is wealthy,correct?

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Young but not dumb, Columbus Ohio — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:12:38 GMT

Ok for anyone who is actually considering Giuliani as a Presidental Candidate have you not heard the man speak? He can't complete a full senctence before spewing onto another Idea or crazy thought that comes to his mind. Just because he was in New York on 9/11 DOES NOT mean he is fit to run this country or is able to make America "safer". His pushy politics and "vote for me or you will be unsafe and die" routine is trying to bully and frighten people into voting for him. Hillary may be a women but she doesn't sound as crazy as alot of the candidates I have watched and listend to. She has a lot of good ideas, one being healthcare. Healthcare in this country SUCKS!! I can't get decent coverage for myself at a reasonable price and I am only 22! I hate to see what it is going to be like when I reach 70, that is of course if there is anything left by then. With global warming, greedy people and politicians and all these damn immigrants coming to this country I don't forcast a very good future for myself or my children. I don't know about anyone else but I am very scared of the fast downhill spiral this world is heading down.

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Scott in South Texas — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:12:56 GMT

CJ (10:25) recognized the key to the illegal immigration problem, i.e. "big business condones and promotes it". As long as they employ them, they will keep coming. When will something be done about that?

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Flat-earther, Georgia — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:24:06 GMT

The 1986 immigration bill deals with all the present problems. Enforce the laws we now have. The AG and POTUS should be impeached for not doing their jobs in this area alone.

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Lorin Weidner, San Antonio, Tex — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:32:34 GMT

I believe the reason their is no more interest in illegal immigration is that most Americans do not have a clue what is going on. Most are caught up in their daily lives and remain very much uninformed. They get a quick sound bite that appeals to them and that makes up their mind, whether its the war, economy or immigration. Until more Americans study these issues, mob rule with the liberal press will influence the future unfortuately.

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Al, KS — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:32:46 GMT

A third party can win. There is a vast block of non-voters, unlikely voters, and unregistered voters for a truly inspiring candidate to tap. If that candidate ever comes along, and I don't see one in this field, he/she could come in under the radar, so to speak, as the normal polling discounts these unlikely voters. That same reasoning is why I think that Obama might not have enough to win the primaries, as he really appeals to those who are less likely to vote. His polling is especially strong amoung younger voters...and that just won't translate into a primary win unless he can become truly inspirational and get those people to the polls.

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csense — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:43:00 GMT

We need to get a grip as Americans. Immigration is a complex multifaceted issue, but there are solutions. Let's not kid ourselves. We are not going to deport 12 million residents, period. It is not going to happen. We all can agree that our borders need to be made secure. We must contemplate real solutions. American business does NOT want to lose dishwashers, busboys, lawn care providers, hotel staff, roofers, cooks, office cleaners, construction laborers, floor refinishers, painters, nannies, factory workers, crop harvesters, farm hands, gas station attendants, etc., etc., etc... the list is endless. And by the way I don't see any Americans lined up in the unemployment lines for these jobs or complaining when their lawn bill, or painting invoice is lower because of this workforce. We are hypocrites and politicians are the worst because they know the reality and instead of solving the problem they pretend it's an us vs. them game and American citizens eat it up. Wake up!

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Joe, Hewlett, N.Y. — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:45:58 GMT

It is not practible to return 12 million people back to their country of origin. But, by the same token it is not fair to the millions of immigrants who entered this country legally. Any plan must consider a real penalty for the illegal immigrants and to get at the end of the line to reenter the USA legally.

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KC, Agawam, MA — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:53:39 GMT

The whole idea about illegal immigration is that those "illegals" don't pay taxes. Taxes are what fund the goverenment and produce all our American benfits ie: voting rights, social security, medicare/medicaid, labor unions, FDA etc. That is what being an American is all about. The right to pursue happiness while knowing that our government is actually on our side....or is supposed to be. Unfortunately, if the canidate is rich, he or she doesn't really understand what us working people really have to face on a daily basis. We need a person who understands the negatives about illegal immigration and can do something about it like going after the businesses that profit from those illegals and yet still stay in business and make a profit!

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John Doe — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:05:41 GMT

Why are we even discussing a poll of 12 people. It seems like the margin of error on this has to be near 100 percent.

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Edwin, Seattle WA — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:12:08 GMT

When I ask did this become about immigration? If America wants to truly provide counter-incentive to the millions of Mexicans plotting a border crossing we should send informants over there to personally discourage them in [their] language. Its not as if a poor citizen of Mexico has some sort of an ear for American politics and its decisions. I am quite sure they have no idea about any of the new restrictions and punishments being issued over here. Of course still the effects of such information being provided are still all of the while limited as it does not account for the already tens of millions currently living in the states. It is indeed hard to see a realistic strategy to problem solve when it comes to getting those who are already in out as it seems the 10,000 dollar fine for citizenship doesn’t exactly tickle the fancy of an illegal immigrant who cannot readily nor comfortably spare such an amount out of his or her annual salary. As far as political representation for a more hybrid third party, I say what is the point? We already have two fractious agencies subversive of domestic tranquility (to quote George Washington) tearing apart America why three? Do not get me wrong, I like where your head is. As of late the idea of political parties have become somewhat of a non-issue in America when in fact they are crippling our since of individualism causing for a modern fad of intellectual laziness. The average American of today will I assure look at the color of ones tie before constructively analyzing their political agenda. Also I also believe the behavior of the current administration (denouncing of others legitimacy, targeting liberals for lack of patriotism) has only furthermore exploited the differences of these two American opinions republican and democrat. Congress is a grudge match these days and extremely based on party loyalties; Mark Satins novel the radical middle is only referred to as such because of the utter rarity of someone actually refusing to join a side and form their own middle ground. The middle I believe something John McCain does not represent CJ. John McCain is a war junkie, counter-insurgency blabber, that’s just a nice way of saying war continued, he doesn’t plan to treat Iraq like Malaysia anymore that Bush does because neither of them are truly there for humanitarian reasons and sadly neither are the “liberals,” I think it might do the modern Hilary fan a bit of good to turn off bbc for a sec. and look up John Locke on wikipedia and seriously think about what is best for the mid-east. We all know that Clinton addressing Iraq at the D primary debate did not sound very laissez-faire saying as that whole country is going to be oligarchy of dawa-shiite majority rule as soon as we leave if you know what I mean.

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Robert Catalano, Salem, OR — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:13:05 GMT

Steve, Hillary McCain? That's great. You may have the answer to the second coming of Mary Baker Eddy.

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MK,MO — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:13:35 GMT

csense, are there any jobs in america americans will do? your list of things american business wants ilegals to do about covers every job I can think of that working class americans do, but I guess people like you would rather pay slave wages to ilegals so you can make your beamer payment on time, you should venture out into the real world sometime it's a very scary place

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Joe, Hewlett, N.Y. — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:16:05 GMT

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H P Boston — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:17:56 GMT

Young but...........We are so use to preses that can not SPEAK he speaks in Dubaytalkkkkkkkkkkk

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jus sayin — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:29:03 GMT

doreen so turn yourself in and cleanse yo soul.

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CJ — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:30:00 GMT

Csense hispanics occupy those jobs because they keep the wages artificially low. Who wants to hire a citizen who looks for a living wage when you can hire an illegal you can pay under the table. That's why I specifically said it's a perversion of the labor force. Traditionally, those positions have been held by minorities and lower education. You can pay an illegal even less, driving your profit up. This forces the competition to do the same...and it may be at a point where it is too late to "fix". But that will not be the status quo for long...what happens when they have children(U.S citizens) who demand their parents be treated fairly and deserve equal wages and opportunity. Not only that they themselves will need help in being educated/hospitilized b/c their parents can't afford it. Big business is wrong, and politicians who say they do the jobs Americans won't do will be in for a rude awakening in a few years. It's more than just work...it affects the very fabric of our society and economy. But when it does occur, I will support them(they will be documented and tax payers atleast)...big business won't be able to hide behind the veil of "workforce shortages" anymore when they can no longer supress the hispanic underclass.

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Al, KS — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:37:47 GMT

Here around the meat packing plants, I can tell you that the myth of "jobs Americans won't do" is just that...a myth. 10 years ago, the meat packing industry payed an average wage of $19-20 hr. Today that wage is $9 hr. And the census will show that many towns in Kansas are now 25-50% hispanic. If you are interested, Liberal KS is 43% hispanic, Garden City KS is 44% hispanic, Emporia KS is 25% hispanic...and the list goes on. The work is hard...and yes many Americans won't do it at the present wage, but they DID do it 10 years ago at a much higher wage. Most of these plants are "hidden" from public veiw in small towns across the plains states where they can conduct their business without the first hand knowledge of most of the country...all with the tacit approval of lawmakers at all levels of government. Until we end this practice in all industries, Americans will continue to see falling wages and illegal immigration, no matter how high a fence we build.

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sam a — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:38:41 GMT

am not sure which is better - electing a woman or electing a black man, but it's got to be someone different. That's what the pools will show us or already showing us. Obama, Clinton, and in the end we may just settle for Romney or Gulliani, with some role for the ones we really dream about.

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Carrie, NW Iowa — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:45:47 GMT

I don't think most illegal immigrants come here because they are fleeing criminal charges in another country, so I don't think it's at all helpful to wonder how many of them are "ax murderers, rapists or whatever." I'm not saying they are all pure of heart, either; I think that, for the most part, illegals are normal people who want a better life for themselves and their kids. Unfortunately, they choose to forego the proper channels, which is wrong. But I don't think that they are a bunch of violent criminals.

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jus sayin — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:47:15 GMT

darwin when you got an intellegent post I will pay attention til then keep barkin and whimperin and whinin.

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CJ — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:51:34 GMT

Earlier I was contrasting Rudy vs. McCain. But I do wonder is the McCain of old..or has he converted to the neoconservative agenda. But still better in my eyes than Rudy .. a Democrat (??Republican??) who fancies himself as a Bush acolyte.

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M.W. Riley — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:56:31 GMT

Throughout these responses I failed to see anyone mention Bill Richardson... As a New Mexican, I can tell you that his campaign may have more legs than the pundits choose to realize. I am not a supported of Richardson, however he has a very good grasp on both domestic and international politics. His Hispanic background may also be what is needed to get this country to come to grips with our completely non-sensixal immigration policies.I couldn't say for certain, but I also believethat Richardson might be more hawkish than some people realize. He's very competitive, not one to give in on a battle to be won. Again, I'm not a supporter of his and, in fact, tend to vote more often than not GOP...Just don't throw Richardson's campaign under the bus just yet.

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Mark Thieme — Wed, 23 May 2007 17:27:09 GMT

It might be worth noting a fact here and there. In reference to one particularly sloppy contributor's post of the this morning about state funded universities: The average percentage of total tax generated budget support among land grant and state-funded research universities in the United States is less than 25% and, in many cases, less than 20%. The larger portion of "income" for such institutions comes from research grants and private sources. Thus we may say that Mr. Edward's speech is most likely primarily funded by private donors or corporate interests. Whether it is George W Bush giving a commencement address at a state funded university, Dick Cheney speaking to Young Republicans at a land grant college, or Barack Obama addressing a campus wide prayer vigil at the University of Illinois, little or none of the funds is "our money." Such nonsense. It is almost a waste of time to respond to each of the uninformed regurgitations of this particular BS artist. Anybody who sees "nuance" in such tripe deserves to be suckered.

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Darren, MB, SC — Wed, 23 May 2007 17:49:21 GMT

I think, jus sayin, that most all of my posts are intelligent, they provide facts to back up my opinions. I research each issue to the best of my ability and I never just adopt a stance based on sound bites. They are open to discussion and I don't claim to always have it right. They do not however state an opinion with nothing whatsoever to back it up, nor do they attack those who disagree. Please refer me to any post where you have done the same. Your only arguement is that EVERYONE has committed crimes so NO ONE has a right to speak out on this issue. That is absurd. How many people do you think we can allow to come here before our economy collapses? Before our schools and hospitals are overburdened to the point of collapse? Please tell me the benefits of allowing rampant, unchecked illegal immigration? How much lower should our wage scale be artificially pushed? How many more millions in food stamps and other entitlements should American taxpayers be forced to subsidize for a class of people who pay no taxes other than payroll taxes in most cases? And there are many, who are working "under the table" who pay no taxes whatsoever. Why should my childrens' education, and those of millions of other families, suffer because an inordinate amount of time is spent trying to educate children who do not speak English? Or because they are trying to teach them to speak Spanish from the first grade on so that they can communicate with the children of illegals instead of focusing on the fundamentals that they should be learning? Please educate me, apparently my racist attitude is clouding my judgement.

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Mark Thieme — Wed, 23 May 2007 17:58:08 GMT

here's a little "research" the BS artist actually missed. Just a little nuance for a Wednesday afternoon: http://chronicle.com/jobs/2003/10/2003103101c.htm Back to the books Asthma Boy and good luck trying to convince folks you are "intelligent"; but then again, in your own eloquent words, you don't have to be right. What pathetic foolishness!

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Darren, MB, SC — Wed, 23 May 2007 18:10:27 GMT

It is quite flattering to see that there are certain individuals who come here only to attack me and my opinions. A few days ago I mentioned those who see themselves as true geniuses of mendacity, but are actually pathetically transparent. These architects of dissimilation can not stand facts when they are in opposition to their personal beliefs and agendas. When the former Senator from NC, or anyone for that matter, speaks at a public university, then his speech is partially funded by our tax dollars. The problem comes when that person is actively campaigning for the presidency. I personally do not want to contribute to Mr. Edwards campaign. The amount of my tax dollars is small, no doubt, but still they are used. When George Bush speaks on a college campus as president, he receives no compensation. Nor does Dick Cheney. Yet, some will claim they do in an effort to make my point mute. This is nothing more than an amatuerish attempt at chicanery. Smoke and mirrors. Still, I am flattered that some find my posts worthy of a good smack down. There are always those who are ready to slap down any truth that gets in their way.

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Violet Eubank — Wed, 23 May 2007 18:17:34 GMT

I don't put much importance to poles. They never seem to be accurate, especially only 12. And then again I can think one way today and change my mind tomorrow.So I still see Clinton as the next president. I won't vote for her but I think she has the money and she has Bill. Could be wrong though. Obama seems to be the favorite to a lot of younger people, and some older people that I talk to. He is certainly on the minds and lips of a lot of people I run into. There again I don't hear the names of any other canidates in the 400 plus people I see daily. Just Clinton and Obama. Could just be the media of course. Some want Clinton others Obama, but a ticket of such is what most want. Just those little people on the street but they do vote.

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jus sayin — Wed, 23 May 2007 18:20:34 GMT

darwin turn yourself in and clease your soul and no matter what you say I AM RIGHT AND YOUR WRONG

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David, Syracuse New York — Wed, 23 May 2007 18:28:20 GMT

With regard to posts quoting Bay Buchanan: Buchanan is a professional liar, much like Rush Limbaugh. She will say anything, true, half true or entirely false, to support her partisan opinions. If she says that a certain person, even a Clinton, did something, it is very likely that they did NOT do as she describes. If Buchanan tells you the time of day, you should check your watch. At least twice.

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Violet Eubank, Tucson, Arizona — Wed, 23 May 2007 18:30:44 GMT

Illegal immagrants are here to work and send money back to their starving family and relatives in Mexico. Most work for a while and go back to Mexico. Many do not intend to 'stay here' nor become American Citizens. There is the criminals also that transport drugs and people to this country. Many leave these people in the desert to die and/or box cars and etc. A work program would work for many of these persons. A green card for six month or so. Those here for criminal activities and don't want to work need to be sent back. And there are a lot of those types here in Tucson, AZ. The other Mexicans will give you the low down on those types. Personally, if I was a Mexican I would try to get here and work, just like they do. What we need to do is get better trade agreements and industry into Mexico instead of China, India and so forth so they will have jobs in their own country. Why not oil from Mexico instead of making the middle east rich with it? Well just a thought.

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Barbara Weaver, Beaverton OR — Wed, 23 May 2007 18:31:47 GMT

If I were poor, uneducated and lacking the wherewithal to get my children educated, living in a country that was not providing any job opportunities; and in areas where jobs were available was not providing my family with police protection from crime, I am unsure how long it would take for me to try to escape what I saw as being hopeless. Our reaction is to shoot, to send them back, to put sympathizers in jail. I don't believe it will work, based on the fact that those coming across the border illegally already perceive that they may die during the journey, and would rather die than live in the misery that they now exist in. I agree that illegal immigration is a problem that must be addressed, but perhaps we could have a joint effort in a buffer zone between the US and Mexico (possibly on US soil), in which we find a way to educate and keep safe those who are trying to escape that life. It must be (or become) self-sufficient, could be patrolled but the patrols would need to be paid for by the businesses out of whatever profits are seen. Further, a buffer zone out of which those who learned to speak English, and proved to be good workers capable of keeping the laws of the US, should then be provided the ability to return to Mexico as teachers. The businesses should be "owned by" the employees, much like Winco or other American businesses operate.

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Frances Larsen, Newcastle, WA — Wed, 23 May 2007 18:45:05 GMT

Darren--Keep on keeping on. Your posts are reasonable and civil, which is more than can be said for many others. As for Mexicans taking over the US--well, they are taught that the US took its SW states from Mexico by force and by trickery (Gadsden Purchase). Why do they believe this? Because it is true. However, makes you wonder, when will France demand the return of the Louisiana Purchase? How about when will Russia want AK back? Or, if you go back far enough in US history, when will the Native Americans want Manhattan Island back? Hispanics are slowly becoming the majority, due to lower birth rates for European-Americans (one poster joked, "Whites, make more babies!")For the first time in US history, a non-English language is prevalent in signage, in communication, in entertainment and information distribution (TV, radio stations, newspapers). Is there an organized Hispanic agenda? A vast conspiracy? Doubt it. Just a sea-change in demographics. History develops as it develops. Perhaps European descendents have ruled the US long enough--perhaps in the grand scheme of things, it is time for another ethnic group to take control of the US.

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Mark Thieme — Wed, 23 May 2007 18:45:43 GMT

Ooh! Big words! That certainly changes my mind. Bet the old thesaurus is about worn out today. Whenever the President or Vice President speaks on a college campus, the campus bears a significant portion of the expenses of security and traffic control (at least). Even for the Cowboy George and Darth, there ain't no free lunch. I call it "chicanery" to douse this board with TMPI: too much personal information, to whine and sputter when challenged and to relate personal experiences making oneself the hero, such as the classic: sucker punching a Marine in uniform when he flirted with your wife. How gallant! Especially for someone who refuses to serve but has been willing (before the recent marvelous conversion experience!!!) to send other people to sweat, bleed, and die in Iraq for "your family", or "your business," "your freedom," or on behalf of your asthma. By the way, when you are trying to sound smart, check the dictionary for spelling and precise definitions of those big words.

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Darren, MB, SC — Wed, 23 May 2007 18:53:02 GMT

I can always count on the right people to prove my points. While I readily admit that I may sometimes be wrong on any given subject, there are those who feel an overpowering need to be right. The mere idea that someone else may have an opposing point of view drives them to the brink. Yes, I have ashtma, and would never wish it on anyone. Well, almost anyone. One good bout of struggling to get the slightest bit of oxygen into your lungs and wondering if you will be able to might bring about an epipnany, a change in thinking that you might not otherwise believe you would undergo. I am amazed at the visceral reaction by some to the slightest disagreement on even the most trivial of issues. At least I got a good laugh on an otherwise mediocre day. Thanks! And good luck trying to convince people that you are open to free and fair discussion without resorting to quite juvenile tactics such as name calling and personal attacks.

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Darren, MB, SC — Wed, 23 May 2007 18:58:39 GMT

One other point of clarification on the public speaking issue. Often, student groups raise money on their own to pay for guest speakers they invite. This was not the case when Edwards spoke at Stanford U on April 26 of last year on poverty. Or when he spoke at the U of Nevada on May 21. The list is long and easy to find.

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jus sayin too — Wed, 23 May 2007 19:03:40 GMT

darwin for psuedo intellectual loudmouth of the month. who else votes for her?

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C Bowen, Durham Maine — Wed, 23 May 2007 19:39:37 GMT

How can you miss Michael Scheuer teaming up with Ron Paul? That is news, and speaks to interesting things going on behind closed doors. I appreciate folks talking about a Third Party, but until that moment, later this year or next year, stay focused on Paul.

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James Rand — Wed, 23 May 2007 19:51:53 GMT

I do not understand why Guiliani gets all this security credit. If 911 didn't happen, he would be corporate lawyer ripping off everyone in his path. He did absolutely nothing after the first WTC bombing. Even though he knew it was still a target, he place his command center in the WTC. Smart move, right! The NYC Fire Dept., says they were ill prepared with out dated equipment and never trained for these emergencies. So how come he gets credit for doing such a terrible job. I am amazed, but then again maybe not. He does has an amazing skill to get in front the camera's for his photo ops. Maybe if he had done his job right before 911, many lives could have been saved. He is not my choice, even for street cleaner.

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Someone Who Cares — Wed, 23 May 2007 20:02:06 GMT

Subject: Barack H. Obama......interesting info Probable U.S. Presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black Muslim from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white atheist from Wichita, Kansas. Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was 2 years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya . His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a radical Muslim from Indonesia. When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia. Obama attended a Muslim school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a Catholic school. Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, He was once a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear tat Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education. Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Osama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the radical teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since it is politically expedient to be a Christian when seeking major public office in the United States , Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background. Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential candidacy. Let us all pass this around!

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Roger, Oakland CA — Wed, 23 May 2007 20:15:41 GMT

Darren - You are saying that someone running for office shouldn't be compensated for a speaking engagement? I'm assuming you're talking about Edwards speaking at UC Davis. If so, he made that speech BEFORE he declared his campaign. He earned $55,000. Now, if you're response is I'm splitting hairs...that your point is that "officially declaring" is not necessary, then I must ask you: how do you feel about Rudy earning $100,000 speaking to Oklahoma State U. PLUS the $47K he earned for the use of a private jet?

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Loren Gerlt, Imperial, CA — Wed, 23 May 2007 21:02:46 GMT

I propose a simple solution to illegal immigration, the 12 million who are already here, the minimum wage issue, existing unemployment, tax revenues, and probably several other issues. Strictly enforce the existing laws, especially on the hiring of illegals. Make new laws which mandate prison sentences for all management in companies that hire illegals and major fines and sanctions against the companies themselves. The result? The jobs would dry up quickly and the illegals will deport themselves the same way they entered. The opening of the vacated jobs would decrease unemployment, the companies would have to raise offering wages to get people to do many of those jobs, which in turn would increase tax revenues. I'm certain there would be a need for a "guest worker program but that could be resolved once the dust settled.

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WDWend, Tacoma, WA — Wed, 23 May 2007 21:54:18 GMT

Hillary has promised health care to all, She has not stated you would pay this out landish bill, or would they take it off record like she wanted to when Bill was president. That way nobody would know how much it cost. The one who will come out is the one the far left(with billions to spend) will push for president. The rest will fall by the way side.

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Dick Rein Tuckerton N.J. — Wed, 23 May 2007 22:14:04 GMT

Short and sweet: Mexico: Illegal immigrants: Save the money on border guards, take down the fences and BUY Mexico. Tax them like all of us. This will keep them happy to stay where they are.

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HP BOSTON — Wed, 23 May 2007 23:10:24 GMT

WE COULD PAY FOR HEALTH CARE FOR EVERYONE AND STILL HAVE MONEY TO BUY MEXICO IF WE STOPPED SPENDING ON THE IRAQ INVASION! YOU MAY ALSO BE SURE TO GET SOCIAL SECURITY TOO. WDWEND IN WA.

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JD, LA, CA — Thu, 24 May 2007 00:03:35 GMT

Why is it ok to spend billions on killing (Iraq war) but not on keeping our own children alive (universal healthcare)?

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Jane, Southern Mississippi — Thu, 24 May 2007 00:17:47 GMT

For what they pay the coyotes to get them across the border into the U.S., the illegal aliens could stay in Mexico and start a business. Maybe they could march in the streets of Mexico for better working conditions and for less corruption in the Mexican government. That's where the problem starts, in Mexico. Why should we make it our problem? We have enough problems already, without having to take on the illegal aliens. They will be more of a burden than a boost, just like they are now. We taxpayers shouldn't have to help Mexico out. Our taxes are supposed to be for us.

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TK, Martinsburg, WV — Thu, 24 May 2007 00:54:46 GMT

All I can say is RON PAUL.

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Mark Thieme — Thu, 24 May 2007 01:23:15 GMT

Frances Larson, re: "Darren--Keep on keeping on. Your posts are reasonable and civil, which is more than can be said for many others." This past week I defended a poster named Peeps who was the butt of many negative reactions here. I soon found myself embarrassed when Peeps was outed as a serial plagiarizer. I will spare you the embarrassment of going not far back into the archives to demonstrate just how uncivil, homophobic, crude, and insulting your friend has been right here. He has been outed perhaps more than any other poster in the last few months, but reinvents himself for a new group and starts over. Sadly, he has personally been responsible for the defection of some of our most articulate conservatives, independents, and liberals. You may indeed wish you hadn't been so quick to speak. If there is vitriol here, it has a history. Nonetheless, I do apologize sincerely for personalizing my disgust. In that I have been in error. I let him drive me out once before and I think it is about time for me to take a long hiatus. That should please our friend and perhaps prove a relief to you as well. Good night and good luck.

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Dewey Leon Everts Jr Santa Barbara California — Thu, 24 May 2007 02:25:33 GMT

I have named the current administration in Washgton D C as the BULLTACO GROUP. Rudy has the chance of a snowball in hell. It will be either CLINTON/OBAMA OR OBAMACLINTON. i'm NEARING 80 YEARS OLD. I knew that Harry Truman had beaten Tom Dewey before I went to bed that night. Grandpa told me and he was a yellow dog democrat and so am I.

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Shirley Beckstrand, Gonvick, MN — Thu, 24 May 2007 04:48:02 GMT

I personally feel it's impossible to find all the illegal's in order to ship them back. If you send the criminals back they will find other means of entering our country. Their minds work in mysterious ways. Sort of like some politicians. Make Mexico pay for their (the criminals) incarceration or they get them back). As for the decent illegals, it would be a whole lot cheaper to enforce the teaching of English and print all documents in English (including labels on merchandise) forcing them to learn our language. By giving into all their whims we are making it so easy for them to take over our Nation. It wouldn't take them long to learn what our forefathers learned when they realize it's our way or the highway (river to some) back. Every country in the world is envious of what we have. Doesn't that tell you something? Whatever happened to the tests former wannabe citizens had to take? They were tough but because of the toughness they became proud Americans. We also need to free those border patrol agents for doing their job and let the rest of them do their jobs also. Vote for the presidential candidate that supports these ideas. When I'm at it, SS should be paid on every dollar earned regardless of the amount of the wage. Let the rich help the middle class support this Nation. Tired Old Citizen

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JD Medina Ohio — Thu, 24 May 2007 06:00:03 GMT

Illegal immigration, simple fix. Every person, man woman and child born in this country today has to have a SSN. Every employer that has employment forms has one simple question on it....what is your SSN. If it is verified as valid you’re a citizen and you get to work...if not Go Home! Every SSN today can be verified on line just like anything else. Okay so now you come back with what about identity theft....again simple thumb print identification. Match the two and you have a bingo. Technology exists today that can do wondrous things...why not move into the next generation and start to use the brain power we have. For all the Civil Libertarians out there this may sound hard and crass but what civil liberty’s are we breaking other than the protection of our sovereign nation....move to a foreign country and see just how fast you are told to learn their language and customs. Politics...another joke! The President is the so called 'Leader of the free world'. That may be true. But he does not make laws or policies. He can suggest anything and must accept what he is given. Congress and the Senate are the real policy and law makers. This 'Good Ole Boys' club needs to be shaken up with real reform. Term limits have been in effect for the President since after Roosevelt.....why not for the rest of these life time politicians. After your term is over you are done period. You can not run again for the same office in the same state, county or district. Your pension is not hundreds of thousands and your healthcare is not borne on the back of the people. Get a real job in a factory, work on an assembly line and then come back and tell me how easy it is to pay your bills living your gland lifestyle in the ivory tower. Then again you could live off your speaking engagements and book deals. Then and only then will the country start to be run as it was intended some 200 plus years ago. This country was founded on principles that dealt with common sense and the common good for all. Somewhere in the past 100 years this seems to have slipped away from those in power…..shame on us as a people and a nation for letting it happen. We need to take our country back or as it has been stated before it will be lost forever.

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Olivia — Thu, 24 May 2007 12:31:46 GMT

To add to JA, LA, CA--And why do we have to foot the bill for the reconstruction of IRAQ when the sorely-needed rebuilding of New Orleans, the obliterated communities of the Mississippi Gulf Coast, and the rest of the over Great Britain-sized area devastated by Katrina and Rita is being neglected by the Bush Administration?

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Jonathan Kemp, Kona, Hawaii — Thu, 24 May 2007 15:57:39 GMT

Iraq is not democracy, it's a theocracy. Therefore Congress Iraq funding laws unconstitutional by the 1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." (Iraq theocracy= est. of religion) www.troopshomenow.com will end the Iraq war and has Congress quaking.

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Kevin S. Titusville, Florida — Thu, 24 May 2007 17:39:18 GMT

It's really quite simple why the country is on the fast track to haites in a handbag. Parents don't, childcare isn't, and sex sells. Turn on the tv and try to find the morality amist the glut and glitter. If history were important in these times, most would know that the Romans, Greeks, Italians, and French dynasty's perished when they reached our level of imorality.

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Frances Larsen, Newcastle, WA — Thu, 24 May 2007 18:07:16 GMT

Mark--Please don't take a hiatus! All civil voices have a right to be heard. Yes, I remember reading some posts by Darren that were less than pleasant. However, he seemed to have changed his attitude and I was giving him the benefit of doubt and encouraging him to continue in that vein. Perhaps he is sincere, perhaps he is not. Future posts will tell. I can only compare him with some others who regularly post here and really say nothing--just vent their anger, hostility and bias. Kind of a shame, because some of them seem to be well-educated and knowledgeable--could contribute something more constructive to the blog than they do. Hope to see your name (and opinions) on the lists again.

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Shirley , Gonvick MN — Thu, 24 May 2007 18:38:55 GMT

I say AMEN to JD Medina, and Olivia's and Kevin's comments above for Thursday. Well written. You spoke my mind.

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Mark Thieme — Thu, 24 May 2007 19:51:46 GMT

Thank you Frances. I must admit, I have lost my objectivity in regard to Darren. I would like to think that I might be mature enough at this stage of life to avoid some of the silliness of my recent posts about him. To me, he seems the classic schoolyard bully, and I have spent my life deflating bullies when others would not take them on or when others were deceived by them. In my youth, I was the guy who confronted the bully and took my chances. Time after time, I learned that bullies are whiners and love to play the victim once exposed. I could tell stories. So enough of that for now. I do appreciate your kind remarks. I just have to settle down, allow my blood pressure to decrease a bit. And you are kind and absolutely right to give Darren the benefit of the doubt. In fact, I am beginning to feel a twinge of authentic pity for him myself. That's a start. Be well.

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D Bass, Colorado Springs — Thu, 24 May 2007 20:07:51 GMT

Here's an immigration solution: The 12 million can stay, but since that represents about 30 years of legal immigration, no new immigration from Central America will be permitted for the next 3 decades so that applicants from the rest of the world unlucky enough not to share a border with the United States can catch up. Abolish minimum wage laws. Build a fence and man it. Fix Social Security so politicians are no longer tempted to import laborers to keep it going. Implement a bussing program so that all areas of the United States can experience the joy of large populations of unassimilated immigrants. Require all Mexican immigrants to make at least one attempt to start a restaurant chain to replace Taco Bell.