http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx From Elizabeth Wilner, Mark Murray, Huma Zaidi, and Jennifer Colby.Voters rebuked House Republicans in the 2006 midterm elections one last time yesterday, ousting Republican Rep. Henry Bonilla from Texas' 23rd district in favor of Democrat Ciro Rodriguez,en-USCommunityServer 2.0 (Build: 60608.1)http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20317Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:33:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20317Rufus Gibbons, Kenett, Mo.I learned long ago not read anything into the outcome of any Louisana election they definitely march to the beat of a different drummer.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20318Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:41:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20318Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa"The best laid plans of mice and men, gang aft DeLay."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20321Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:50:56 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20321TEC, Spring TXThe new way forward is the old way. Stay the course will now be called the way forward. No need to announce the same game plan anytime soon. In the immortal words of Alfred E Neumann "What me Worry"http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20327Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:58:00 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20327John B, Des Moines, IAShouldn't it be an issue that after 3 1/2yrs in Iraq the President is just now trying decide how to bring this thing to a close?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20332Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:01:01 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20332Dirk, Brunswick, GeorgiaThe Dems won another one, and no incumbent Dem lost on Nov.7....I'm lookin' for at least one or two GOP "defections" to the Dem majority by early January--boosting the Dem majority from 233-202 to perhaps 235-200. The "defections" won't be as great as the Dem defections to the GOP after the '94 Gingrich sweep (a'la' Sen. Shelby of Alabama), because partisanship is now more polarized. Defections these days aren't to be expected, from one party to another...however, I wouldn't be surprised if Rep. Chris Shays or some other moderate GOPer might defect to the Dems in exchange for a spot on a key Committee---Pelosi is an ole horse trader. I say look for two GOP Cong. to defect, and perhaps, perhaps one GOP Senator.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20333Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:02:00 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20333Butch, Pine, ColoradoI don't know what's worse - that nearly 4 years into this mess our fool of a president has decided he needs a "listening tour" or that the press is taking it seriously. Why isn't someone in the media calling Tony Snow on the absolute nonsense he's spouting? Bush has just now decided that it's "complicated?"http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20337Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:06:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20337AFMCAI applaud the Texans for putting one more nail in the coffin of Tom DeLay. He was more interested in power than democracy. As for the people in one small district in Louisiana - shame on you for keeping a person of such low character - it does prove that sometimes we deserve the government we get. Hopefully the new House leadership will relegate him to some worthless subcommittees. The rest of America deserves to be represented by people of better character.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20345Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:15:56 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20345Army Guy; Ft Bliss TXI think that by putting Jefferson on a platform higher than Bonilla is somewhat skewed. Yes, Bonilla got his tailed kicked, but Jefferson still cannot explain away 90K in his freezer, the contracts his relatives got overseas and is still under investigation by the FBI. Please do not put Jefferson to high on the praise pole, for I bet, w/ all the smoke surrounding him, and, oh by the way, the Dem leaders refusing to put him back on Ways and Means; there is something lurking in his closet or freezer.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20350Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:21:12 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20350Gerry, Sussex WIIt seems that the wool is no longer covering the eyes of the average citizen.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20355Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:24:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20355Robert Catalano, Salem, ORCompetence was never a factor in any election since 2000. Karl Rove, Tom DeLay and the rest of the gang baffled with bull**** instead of impressed with ability. Rove used wedge issues to divide the country and DeLay used bully tactics to allow the Republicans to take over the Congress. I am glad they are gone. Some would say you could admire the moxy it took to nearly accomplish what they did. I can't agree; it wasmore the stupidity of the American electorate which allowed it. I am just glad this same electorate wised up before the United States as we knew it was gone.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20357Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:25:45 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20357Scott BJust wishful thinking John B.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20358Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:27:42 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20358Ken W, Wichita, Ks The immortal Casey Stengel once said,"The trick is growing up without growing old." The Republicans seem to have not learned that trick! They never grew up while in Congress, but they sure got old quick!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20364Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:34:05 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20364M - In TexasSOSDD (Same Old S@$*, Different Day). The new way forward is to announce yet another new excuse as to why we invaded Iraq which had nothing to do with the decision at the time and to decide that staying the course is the new way forward. Remember "Mission Accomplished", "We are winning the war", "the insurgency is in its final throes", "Saddam was meeting with Al-Qaeda", "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction"? Bah! If any person you did business with had lied/misled (whatever term you want to use) to you so many times, I suspect you'd take your business elsewhere. Bush and his cronies have ZERO credibility and at this point it is so far gone they could never get it back. Look for some new catchy phrases to describe how he intends to do the exact same thing.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20368Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:40:15 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20368Mitch, Antigo, WI.To: Dirk in GA. Regarding your expectations of some GOP defections to the Dems in the very near future, which U.S. Senator do you expect to switch parties? There are only three "moderates" remaining on the GOP Senate (Snowe and Collins of Maine and Arlen "Magic Bullet" Specter of Pennsylvania), and I can't imagine any of them switching (Snowe just got re-elected with about 73% of the vote, Collins is up for re-election in '08 and Specter always has stayed loyal to the party despite being at odds with the GOP over abortion rights and other "red meat" issues). And, what other GOP Congressperson do you expect to switch besides Shays? Personally, I don't expect Shays to switch. I'd be curious to know your specific thoughts on this. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20374Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:49:23 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20374john chicagoGeorge Bush is a war criminal and an incompetent and arrogant spoiled loser. The reason why nothing is changing in Iraq is because US citizens sit back and take a do nothing approach. Yes, the US citizens made a statement with their votes in the midterms and yet all the politicians do everything they can to ignore the will of the people. US citizens need to deman from the new incumbents that Bush and his cronies be hel accountable for their war crimes. He needs to be impeached, trials need to be held, people need long prison time or more, politicians and companies like Halliburton need to be fined and put out of business etc. Until Americans demand real action from our overly corrupt government nothing will change. Bush has done more to ruin the US and cause so much pain for so many people in the world and people here think that taking part in the next poll that comes out will solve the problem. Wake up Americans and quit acting like sheep. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. We expect things to change in Washington and yet we make mental excuse for these corrupt and criminal politicians to keep doing the same things over and over with no real repurcussions.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20384Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:10:49 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20384Eloise Dunn; Saginaw MIBeing a novice here, I take interest at the postings. But, could somebody please give me specific, detailed impeachable offenses that W has done. Not stuff pulled from a news piece but actual offenses that George himself committed that he can be tried by a court of law and found guilt for. We keep banding about impeachment stuff but there is nothing there, but "number of Soldiers that died"; "gross incompetence"; "habeaus corpus violations"; "illegal deprivations of civil liberties"; "illegal Iraq profiteering". Give me some meat and substance of charges that Congres could actually chsare him with. We all know clinton's ordeal was tied up w/ sex, but obstructing justice was the key charge there. So, please, intelligently enlighten me. Remember; some charges we hurl at W can be tagged onto members of Congress also, so beware of the match that strikes fire...http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20388Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:17:38 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20388steve , bemidji, mn.John in chicago has it right, there is a strong calling for accountability, and that means we need to revisit "decisions" made and actions taken since the runup to this war bvefore we as a nation canmove to the next step of formulating a constructive "war" stratedgy [ a war we never should have been drawn into].http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20393Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:26:00 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20393Brian R, Hamden,CTEloise, George Bush has admitted tapping the phone calls of Americans without a warrent. The FISA law says that that is a felony punishable by 5 years in prison.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20394Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:28:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20394Mark Thieme, Daly City, CAEloise, As response to your question about impeachment, I repeat here my post to this blog a couple of weeks a go. In part: "...Republicans fear a Democratically controlled Congress with the power to probe into massive deceptions foisted upon America from within over the past six years. Conservatives are rallying around a "strict construction" of the impeachment clause in the Constitution. They have so soon forgotten that, as a practical matter, impeachment is a highly political instrument. They also put a glib gloss on the definition of impeachment. Impeachment is a trial, not a verdict. It is no more or no less than an accusation. If you have the votes in Congress, you can impeach. God forbid we go through another absurd politically motivated kangaroo court in this time of emergent global disintegration. Nonetheless, the questions are out there. The accusations are thick in the chaotic winter wind. And the Democrats have the votes. The chickens have come home to roost. The crowing is history. The clucking has begun."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20395Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:29:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20395Steve Turner Cedar Falls IowaEloise. Clinton's persecution began with the Whitewater land deal where it was found that he and Hillary actually lost money. After digging around, Monica was discovered. It took a little digging to tie Nixon to the Watergate burglars. I'd bet with all the goofy stuff that has gone on in Government the last six years, something could be found that Dubya would be in on. As for anybody else involved, put all of them on the "Potential Jailbird" list, no matter who they belong to. We're paying for the Government, we deserve something better. Impeachment should be used more often, if you ask me.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20396Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:30:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20396John R., Barre, VermontHa! Rep. Henry Bonilla said that the run-off was, in his mind, the first battle in the 2008 cycle... Woohoo!!! Score one for the Dems. Thanks, Henry, for getting 2008 off to a victorious start for us!!!!!!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20399Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:32:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20399bob,flint miIn a few weeks George will give another "stay the course" speech regardless of all the input he recieves. The war will continue to take American lives until the next election.This "Stay the course" policy will hurt the Republicans in the next election as well. They could even lose the White House.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20400Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:33:07 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20400TEC, Spring TXTo:Eloise Dunn; Saginaw MI It would be hard to impeach Bush, since he has insulated himself from all chargeable activities. So, far everyone that has taken the fall for Bush has kept quite, with the exception of "Brownie", who later became quite, so I guess someone got to him. If he were impeached for lying to the public about Iraq, then faulty intelligence would be blamed on Ashcroft. The president has created a shield and immunity from being impeached for declassifying secret information regarding Plame. No manner what charges were brought, he did not know or he acted on the best information available. What if Bush were impeached, would he step down and leave Cheney in office? Sometimes you need to be careful of what you wish for, because you may receive your wish. Besides, is it a crime to be obtuse? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20402Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:37:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20402Benjamin Purser, Royal Oak,MIAnother nail in the Republicans political coffin and they deserve every bit. They were the worst Congress money could buy, they were as incompitent as the commander-in-chief http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20408Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:44:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20408Diogenes IIMs. Dunn: For starters, I suggest you read Article 6(a) of Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Vol. 1, the Charter of the International Military Tribunal. That section defines "CRIMES AGAINST PEACE: namely, planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing." For more, read "Articles of Impeachment Against George W. Bush," published by the Center for Constitutional Rights. // Regards, D IIhttp://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20410Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:51:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20410Dirk, Brunswick, GeorgiaMitch, I can't specifically name a Senator who might switch; you're right about Sens. Collins, Snowe, and Specter....and Shays is about the only GOP moderate left...as I stated, defections aren't as common as 12 years ago for either party, because of our polarized political environment----Still, the "lure of the majority" is attractive, and, also, no one expected Sen. James Jeffords to defect in May of '01. In the House, I'd say Shays could defect. In the Senate, I can't name anyone specifically, but the GOP is incendiary and at war with itself...lots of carping....Gordon Smith, perhaps? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20412Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:04:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20412Eloise MII'll do some more reading all. I do not see international law as painting him as a war criminal. Yes. a bit obtuse, slow witted, easily duped into going to war. But, remember. with all the laws passed by Congress, if george goes down for them, so does a culpable congress. As for plannig war, the polisci classes I took at UM taught us that war and use of military is a part of national planning, a part of diplomacy. each country uses armed forces to further thier state's desires, goals. And, if we look at the crimes agianst humanity that Saddamm DID perpetrate on the Iraqi citizen..OMG- rape, torture, mass killings, gassing his own countrymen, allowing Odai and Obay to maim, cvripple, torture, kill for bloodlust..wow.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20413Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:07:43 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20413Sebastian Ernissee, Clarion, PAIf impeachment is to be used, I think it would be far better to impeach Cheney--I suspect he is the author of far more "dirty tricks" than anyone else in the whitehouse, other than Rove. It may well be that impeachment is the only mechanism to get at all the profiteering that has gone on, and to clearly identify the companies who've so shamelessly defiled this country's honor.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20416Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:11:41 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20416John R., Barre, VermontI don't think that we should impeach President Bush; I think that we should await the end of his presidency and criminally indict him (though doing both would be extra sweet). Elizabeth de la Vega, a former federal prosecutor, has written a compelling book called the United States vs. George W. Bush, et al. It is essentially a "mock" grand jury proceeding wherein de la Vega lays out the case to indict President Bush for taking the U.S. into war in Iraq based upon the false and manipulated intelligence that he and his minions spoon-fed to the public. She includes testimony, official statements and documentation to prove her case. You can read an excerpt of the book here http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=142875. I picked up my copy on Thursday and had finished it by Friday evening. When I got up Saturday morning, my 11-year-old son was already halfway through it, has since completed it and is going to use it for his next book report. If nothing else, please read the excerpts! Thanks.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20420Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:26:55 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20420Diane Yoder, Dayton, OhioEloise, The United States PUT Saddam Hussein in office (remember Rumsfeld back in the early 80's SHAKING HANDS with Saddam?? go to the US National Security Archive of George Washington University for full scholarly article with citations at http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/)All documents cited have been declassified by the US government through either investigations or the Freedom of Information Act. International law does paint him as a war criminal along with Rumsfeld (which is why he's being sued overseas right now), and Cheney. Ask any political science professor. War and the military are NOT a part of international planning--and as far as the US is concerned, we are more aligned with the Roman Empire--we have military bases in nearly every country in the world. This is unprecedented. No other country has military bases--there are no foreign military bases in the United States, and there would be a holy outcry if it was ever suggested by another country that there should be. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20424Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:31:03 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20424Mudhole MomAmericans spoke up loud and clear about the situation in Iraq in the last election. They don't want to wait till 2008 to see results - change needs to begin NOW. All this double talk about pulling troups out too soon would result in havoc is a laugh. Could it get any worse than it already is?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20426Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:32:07 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20426RickMark makes some excellent points. With all of the Congressional investigations that will be taking place, it shouldn't be to hard to get W in the witness chair and then catch him lying. (which shouldn't be to hard, the man doesn't know how to tell the truth.) Then he's impeached. All Republicans who voted to impeach Clinton will be forced to support impeaching Bush or be quilty of flip-flopping. What goes around, comes around. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20431Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:41:11 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20431Matt B, Boise IDThe ironic thing is: The general difference between a war criminal and a war hero is who's on the winning side. Should this be another war where nobody wins or we technically lose, you decide on the names on these lists.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20434Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:48:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20434John Doe, The Peanut GalleryIn all honesty, why would the 110th Congress want to impeach Bush? From a strategic point of view it would be better to have him in office generating scandal after scandal. The damage potential for the GOP brand is huge. You thought there was a Democratic wave in 2006? Wait utnil you see what happens after two solid years of exposing what this administration has and continues to do...http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20437Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:53:10 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20437Rich, Pittsburgh, PAThis article shows the dems will vote the crooks back in even when faced with voting another dem back in. Same crooks that were in power in '94 are back. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20439Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:06:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20439Robert Catalano, Salem, ORIf a federal court decides "Duh-bya" broke the law by circumventing the FISA court for his warrantless wiretapping, he could well be impeached. This is why the Republican Congress wanted to pass a law authorizing this illegal activity. All of you should write and call your Congresspersons and ask them to reject any law written specifically to shield the President from criminal wrongdoing. It would be akin to Ford pardoning Nixon. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20447Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:13:12 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20447M - In TexasI think it is unlikely impeachment could actually happen in this case because a two-thirds (2/3) majority is needed to convict in the senate. With such a narrow majority in the senate, Democrats can't do it (nor should any one party be able to do it, thus the 2/3 requirement). Republicans won't go along with it. Having said that, I think he should be impeached because he single-handedly usurpped the authority of the secret court for wire tapping by instituting a program that allows intelligence officers to wiretap American phones with no warrant - which directly violates the constitution. Whether or not it is ultimately proper for intelligence officers to have that right is irrelevant. The point is that Bush did not have the authority to be the "decider" of whether or not that is a proper right - especially in as much as the law says a warrant is required. The president is subject to the law of the land and does not have the authority to direct agencies under his control to ignore the parts of the law he happens to disagree with. Period. Ordering agencies under his control to willfully disobey the law rises to a "high crime or misdemeanor" in my book and a lot of other patriotic Americans. If that's not impeachable, then you are saying that any president from now on can direct any of the agencies under his control to willfully disobey any law he chooses, just because the president said so in secret. Is that what you want? It's not what I want.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20448Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:14:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20448!Eloise: quit pretending Bush isn't a war criminal just because there are worse people in the world, and; pay some attention to international opinion before you state what international opinion will or wont support. The world, in general, hates monkey boy. Word. (Please note that this Sadam guy you mention has been sentenced to death.)http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20450Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:18:17 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20450Chris, Philadelphia PAHmmmm, if William Jefferson was a Republican, Democrats would be crying for his head on a silver platter. Foley and Jefferson are two perfect examples of why term limits would strengthen our national legislature. Corruption(Jefferson) and abuse of power(Foley) could be significantly reduced if these people know they are not going to be in that position for the rest of their lives. How much really gets done when these people know they really don't have to do anything and they keep their jobs? These people spend so much time worrying about the next election that they can't get together and make any worthwhile progress on ANY issue. This election is no different than any other election. In 10-15 years, the Democrats will have had enough time to abuse their majority power and the balance will tilt back. Members of congress care little about real progress or abuses of power except when it works to their advantage. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20452Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:21:38 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20452Eloise, MIInteresting thought Diane; we project military force as part of our national will, to move democracy, to give those thst ask some backbone. As we try to depart Germany and NATO lands, we get asked to stay, to essentially keep Russia at bay. We are in Saudi by invation, for backbone defense. Same for Korea, Japan, etc. But military force is an extension of diplomacy, a card to be played, a tool in the toolbox of statecraft. Every ruler has used it since the dawn of time. Just by saying that it is not so does not make it a fact. The US does have forgein troops on it soil- German AF in Texas and NM for one. Yes, we helped Saddamm...another part of the mix and mire of diplomacy...http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20453Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:22:15 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20453Mike Brooks, Eugene, OregonI'm getting a little sick of you in the media claiming that the Democratic election victories were about ethics or whatever. It was about IRAQ! The voters of this country have sent a very loud, very clear message to Washington - "get out of Iraq right now!". And Washington and the media aren't hearing it, aren't reporting it, and aren't making it the sole focus. We hear Ms. Poloski talking about the 100 hour agenda - Gay Rights, ABorrtion Rights, Immigration, taxes, minimum wage, everything BUT IRAQ. What do we need to do? Take to the streets in enormous nation wide protests? Start an independent party that will listen to the people and heed their vote. Get us out of Iraq. I Bush wont do it right now, impeach him. If the Democrats wont do it, resign, and allow the voters to elect someone that will pay attention and do what we say.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20458Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:43:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20458DubC, ChicagoWell after reading Ms. Vega's excerpt, I must say this, the Republicans are not leaving office with a thud, they are leaving with all smiles and with a BANG. I say that b/c as their going away present is, One LAST THREAT; Something that have been doing since 94, threatening the Dems. with weak threats and the Dems cow towing to the threat. They have scared the Democrats away from going after Bush for any kind of indictment or impeachment. The Republicans knew they were going to lose Congress back in January, so for the last 11 months they have been working damage/spin control to keep the Democrats from going after Bush the minute they take office; using lines like "You can go after Bush but it will cost you in 08" or "The people are tired of scandal, and we need to move past it" or most recently, "People were neglient with the pages and Mark Foley, but no one will be held accountable". The Republicans are leaving office, but they have the Democrats so scared coming into office, the "New Way Forward" will be nothing more than "Things will be the same but now, Blame the Democrats, They are in Power".http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20459Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:44:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20459Stevie, North CarolinaFor Eloise Dunn - I think you would have more of that concrete evidence you are looking for if W had Ken Starr following after him through his entire presidency, too. Clinton was harrassed constantly and in the end all Mr. Starr could come up with was a domestic issue. And let's be truthful - almost the entire country recognized it as a domestic issue not worth the money we threw at it. It had little effect on his legacy (aside from a convenient joke) and almost a decade later he is loved around the world. W has changed so many administration policies through his slight of hand tactics (LOOK EVERYBODY! THERE'S TERRORISTS IN IRAQ! Oh, and I'm changing the policy requirement concerning presidential papers to be released in 20 years to an indefinte seal so no one will ever be able to see what I've done). He has managed to create a web of protection around himself which used to include a Republican Congress. Keep watching. Your proof is coming.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20460Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:45:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20460Steve Turner Cedar Falls IowaDiane. Y'know, maybe another Holy Outcry is what we need. If we invited some countries to have military bases over here like we have over there, we would get a feel for what they think. Iran could put a battalion of Revolutionary Guard in Lynchburg, Virginia. It would give the Fundamentalists something to outcry about, other than gay-marriage, and spark up the dances at the USO. North Korea could set one up in Hollywood and show all the movies of Dear Leader, as well as put on a heck of a half-time show at UCLA-USC football games. I bet France would love to put one in New Orleans, close to the swamps full of mudbugs and giant Cajun frog legs. Afghanistan could put some Taliban anywhere there is a nude beach, so They'd have something to outcry about. In the end, all these foreign GI's would return home with an appetite for hot dogs, an ear for hip-hop, and a wardrobe heavy on 'I'm With Stupid' t-shirts. It might be just the ticket, eh?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20468Wed, 13 Dec 2006 19:15:33 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20468Not Eloise, Not MIThe greatest terrorist in the world today has control of and his finger on the activating button of the largest number of WMD in the world. What happens if W's finger gets itchy. You can never tell when a madman's ego will activate destruction.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20472Wed, 13 Dec 2006 19:27:01 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20472Unimpressed with West Michigan (which is why I left)To Eloise Dunn; Saginaw MI: Repealing the writ of Habeus Corpus IS a constitutional violation and an impeachable offense.- as noted in the actual framework of the constitution itself. It has been the ground level frameowrk of any democracy since the Magna Carta. At this point, as an american, you can be found guilty of sedition or terrorism for disagreeing, taken without a warrant, and imprisoned without the right to even ask WHY you have been imprisoned. Take a good long read of the Declaration of Independence, and you will find a lot of similarities cited for the revolution against King George that can be applied to George Bush and the current administration today. Furthermore, take a look at how we went into Iraq. Kinda similar to how Hitler invaded Poland. The League of Nations said "DON"T" and he did. Wound up killing a couple million people. Bush invades Iraq 60 years later citing WMDs that the ENTIRE world intel community KNEW wazs false, the UN said "NO" and he trounced right in anyways. Now we're at around 700,000 dead. (icasualties.org) Fascism is Fascism. Anytime you as a sovereign nation decide that YOU know how to fix another country's woes and invade and unsurp a government - no matter how corrupt- is wrong. It is not our right to decide the fates or governemental structures of countries halfway around the world -particularly when ours isn't doing so great itself. If 700,000 DEAD, thousands of still displaced Katrina victims, and the fac t that Cheney pocketed 180mil on giving his own past company a no bid contract for the war aren't meaty enough reasons, then you need to get on a diet. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20485Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:06:05 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20485DesmondWatch the Scooter Libby trial. It's coming up soon. Be able to tell from that which way the wind's blowing and whether Cheney is made to take the stand and any other White House Official.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20490Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:15:18 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20490Time for ChangeI'm a Democrat, former Republican - and would GLADLY take Jefferson to trial over corruption. This isn't about Rep vs. Dem: This is about broadscale corruption of the gov't in general. The pitting of Red vs Blue is a smokescreen to keep the constituents fueding with eachother instead of realizing that BOTH sides have been 98% the same people for the last 12 years straight, and BOTH sides are knee deep in special interest groups and making a buck for themselves. IS there any reason why even the lowest paid memebrs are getting paid $168K a year base salary for only working 190 days out of a year while the working class get a minimum wage that's a decade old and work 1 to 2 full time jobs to just get by...It's truly more proof that we need a viable 3rd party option. If there was, it would make the status quo have to actually work at impressing us and the world with actual legislation and proactive chage, instead of impressing us with how long they can manage to stay out of jail.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20495Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:35:21 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20495Olivia, Peoria, Ill.Eloise: Technically/legally speaking, this is not an impeachable offense, but it is maddening enough to make one want to see Bush and Dick Cheney go on a hunting trip together. The line, "Bush lied--people died" can be applied not only to the fiasco in Iraq, to which it's normally applied, but to what happened in New Orleans because of Katrina as well. Bush claimed that there was no way his administration could have known her levees were going to fail, but later a tape came out showing Bush being made aware that there was such a problem. So Katrina struck, sending a massive storm surge up the MR-GO canal (dubbed the "hurricane highway") which smashed into Lake Pontchartrain and then broke New Orleans' levees. And on the subject of storm protection, did you know that due to a Senate rule, any single Senator can block any measure? So Oklahoma Sen. Tom Coburn (who, as you may have guessed, is a Republican, besides being an evil beancounter and a disgusting slimebucket) was able to block the Morganza to the Gulf Project, that Louisiana had been trying to get enacted for 6 years. This critical hurricane protection project is a series of levees, locks and other systems to protect 2 parishes in southern Louisiana from flooding. More about Sen. Coburn: he's infamous for his lack of empathy regarding the Gulf Coast. Last year he told the New York Times that he didn't think "everything that should happen in Louisiana should be paid for by the rest of the country." What a jerk. But I'd be willing to bet that the $2 billion we've been spending every week in Iraq isn't causing him to raise an eyebrow. He's just a typical GOP scuzzball and one of Bush's rubber stamps, who, I hope, will soon be rewarded by Bush and Cheney by being invited on a hunting expedition with them. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20502Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:03:46 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20502M - In TexasBy the way, I've seen various comments over time, including today, that allude to the idea of having a 3rd political party as a solution to the corruption that exists in politics. I think a 3rd political party that has roughly equal stature/power with the other 2 is a fantastic idea because it would offer more choice and make it more difficult to commit the kinds of grand scams that the Republicans pulled the last several years. However, I believe the root of 99.8% of all political corruption is the way that money is allowed to flow from big business to politicians and that politicians can claim they need the money for advertising etc. The real way to get a 3rd party in the first place and to limit corruption of our politicians is to limit the money they can receive. Let the public fund political advertising instead of individual candidates, then take away their ability to receive money in nearly all forms. That would go a long way toward a more responsible government. Money isn't the root of all evil, but it sure is the root of a lot of it.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20511Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:37:07 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20511HoustonChris [[Hmmmm, if William Jefferson was a Republican, Democrats would be crying for his head on a silver platter.]] -- I was pleased to see that Bonilla lost in Texas. It's poetic justice for the gerrymandering Tom DeLay did in Texas as part of his scary campaign to impose a PERMANENT Republican majority on the country. However, I was also disappointed that Jefferson won in Louisiana. It proves that Democratic voters can be just as pig-headed and short-sighted as Republican voters. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20513Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:55:45 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20513HoustonRegarding potentially impeachable offenses committed by George W. Bush, they are many. But the one for which he may be most directly culpable is his ordering Jose Padilla, an American citizen, to be detained without charges (a violation of habeus corpus) and tortured for three years with sensory deprivation and other nasty coercive techniques until the man's mind was destroyed. Padilla was a former gang-banger who had some unsavory associations with Muslim extremists, but he was still an American citizen entitled to a fair trial. Padilla certainly didn't deserve the torture to which Bush had him subjected. Whether or not Bush _should_ be impeached for this, I don't know, but I certainly hope the new Congress prevents him from committing further such atrocities against American citizens. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20520Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:29:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20520time for changeM- so the trick would be to instate actual rules barring private sector financing towards the state. Separation of Corporate and State.. like Church & State (heh.. cuz that's workin'.).. A very good idea. the problem is the people in charge who would vote for that are the very people getting glad handed golf packages and expensive dinners. The plan: vote out all of the longterm incumbants. Set term limits for senators so we don't put ourselves through any more decade plus dances with antiquated and corrupted officials.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20526Wed, 13 Dec 2006 23:25:02 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20526M - In Texastime for change - I agree with you that removing the money from the political establishment will be very difficult since they are the ones that would have to establish the rules for themselves. Term limits is probably a good idea as long as they're reasonable. Another good idea would be to let an independant board draw the districting maps and to ban party affiliation data from the process so that maps cannot be artificially rigged to support the party in power. That might be a good one to push at the moment since the Republicans know it will prevent dems from doing the same thing to them that they just did and Dems may just go for it because they are still angry at the Repubs for doing it to them. I guess the point is that we need to keep chipping away at it bit by bit. The more small measures we can put in place, the better the environment for taking additional steps. I certainly don't have all the answers on this so if anyone else has additional ideas, I'd be curious to hear them.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20587Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:02:04 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20587Rick, South Dakota.Sounds like Padilla should have made some better life choices. Maybe Doctor Phil could do an intervention for him.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20597Thu, 14 Dec 2006 12:41:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20597Rick, South DakotaAs a matter of fact Mr. Padilla sounds like such a nice guy I think he and any of his Muslim friends should be set free and relocated in Houston. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20612Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:32:04 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20612Caroline in IowaTerm limits might help, but they are unconstitutional because they add qualifications to service in Congress that cannot be found in the Constitution itself. The only way to make them legal would be via a constitutional amendment, which is probably not that likely. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#20649Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:29:25 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:20649Lee in CARick, I say this with love and patience: if it happened to Padilla, it can happen to YOU. You've maybe never heard of Jesus, but he had this saying that went like "what you do to the least of us, you do to me." Some non-smirky founding fathers also had a little saying like "no-one is free if anyone is oppressed." Try to incorporate that into your marvelously pithy sentiments.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#21219Sun, 17 Dec 2006 14:26:43 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:21219JR-Camp Wood, TxOur president has always been known to be incompetent,arrogant, and self serving. And downright gullible when it comes to taking advice. Many in Texas are still wondering why he was elected governor, let alone president.Basically three things helped; money, more money,and even more money.Although oil was the underlying reason for invading Irag ( and also to show 'daddy' that GW was his own man) Bush's vision for democracy in that part of the world is long overdue.I hope it succeeds but there was absolutely no research, planning or preparation for execution.In football jargon (we love football in Texas)he was the so-so quarterback of a team with good coaching who bullied their way to success against mediocre opposition..In the big leagues his mediocrity is obvious,and the fans have turned against him..His heart may be in the right place but his brain is out of sync with it. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/12/13/20312.aspx#21495Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:13:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:21495Rick South DakotaLee, I say this with no tolerance what so ever. It can't happen to me. I am a law abiding citizen with no ties to terrorism.