http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx BIDEN: Campaign manager Luis Navarro issued this statement regarding the pressure MoveOn is putting on the campaign to drop out of the FOX/Congressional Black Caucus debate. “We applaud Moveon.org’s efforts to change the President’s policies in Iraq. en-USCommunityServer 2.0 (Build: 60608.1)http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209549Thu, 31 May 2007 13:37:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209549Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA What made America great is the middle class? Hmmm, I'm not sure that statement would survive much historical scrutiny. The middle class as Hillary knows it resulted from (as opposed to causing) the prosperity we stumbled upon by ramping up a war economy with the benefit of not being bombed too much during the 1940s. That and the fact that we happened to have a resource-rich land, and thanks to our Founding Fathers (who certainly weren't middle class) a Constitution that protected rights and allowed a society in which entrepreneurial instincts could flourish. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209592Thu, 31 May 2007 14:12:59 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209592mikeeg,abdnwawhat rights protected slaves and Native Americans?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209632Thu, 31 May 2007 14:38:05 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209632Rufus Gibbons, Kennett, Mo.Paul what made america great was the GI bill which allowed thousands of poor and middle class people to go to college. Prior to WWII some middle class people went to college by working two or three jobs while attending school, but college was usually filled by sons and daughters of the privileged. Since rich married rich their gene pool deteriorated. When new blood graduated from college the United States became the leader of the free world not only militarily but in science and engineering.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209640Thu, 31 May 2007 14:42:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209640H P BostonMikeeg...Paul just told us it was a bunch of rich white guys (the 4 fathers)so what the hell did you expect. History was made up to sound good, it was not. It is what it is mikeeg and we are stuck with it, rights for everyone? Oh and this is not an attack,just saying.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209665Thu, 31 May 2007 14:55:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209665Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VALol, I was going to say something about Native Americans in my post, but didn't. I didn't say the people were protected by the rights; I said the rights were protected by the Constitution. Our selective ability to adhere to or ignore the Constitution based on expediency goes way back to the beginning when we decided African Americans were only like 3/5 of a person, or however that logic worked. Don't mean to imply for a second that our country doesn't have its bodies buried under the garden.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209701Thu, 31 May 2007 15:15:44 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209701MK,MOpaul miller, I am sure you are very comfortable with the monarchy system some people are currently enjoying in this country, however there are others here who think some adjustments could make the u.s.a. a more enjoyable experience for the many instead of the few, I say we shake the tree in 08 and see what falls out http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209703Thu, 31 May 2007 15:16:11 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209703Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VARufus, we won the race to build an atomic bomb before the GI Bill. If you measure greatness by international influence, then certainly having the bomb first contributed to ours. If you measure greatness by economic ability, we cranked out a bunch of ships and planes faster than anyone else could before the GI Bill, too, and probably not too many of those GI Bill guys had graduated from college and started their civilian careers before we were pretty far along into the Marshall Plan. If you measure greatness by our somewhat revolutionary approach to government and individualism (including individual rights, regardless of all the shortcomings history has seen), then you have to look at that bunch of rich, white guys from way back when.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209765Thu, 31 May 2007 15:52:25 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209765Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VAMK, you are changing the subject. Hillary said it was the middle class that made America great. I took exception to that statement. If you take exception to mine, you ought to do it by arguing for her point about the middle class. Throwing out a ad hom about how I am comfortable with a monarchy just isn't cutting it. Besides, we don't have a monarchy. Truth be known we have more democracy today than ever, and in fact more than was intended. Did you know U.S. senators originally were appointed by the states and not elected? The only recourse people had to senators they didn't like was to work toward changing the make-up of their state governments. Six years ago we had far more ability to research and judge the second Bush than people a couple hundred years ago to research and judge the second Adams. And certainly few if any people 200 years ago envisioned a conversation like this between you in Missouri and me in Virginia, with folks from all over either reading along or ignoring as they wish, all by a click of a button. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209784Thu, 31 May 2007 16:00:56 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209784jerry/corpus christi texasI know how Hillary got rich. Making a killing on the cattle future's market. Writing a book, what was it called? "It takes a village to keep an eye on my husband" or something like that. Of course, Bill is making $600,000 a year working for infousa, which sells lists to steal money form Alzheimers patients. He goes around the world givng speeches and adding to the global warming problem with every breath he spews out and paid very well for it. Maybe her campaign song should be "it's money that matters", written by the guy who wrote that song about short people. Maybe Kobe should be running for president, he'd win in Los Angeles hands down, as we saw in the newspapers. Kudo's to Joe Biden, don't let a bunch of pot smoking, glue sniffing left wing nut jobs tell you how to run your campaign. Moveon.org must be the real power in the liberal community, they have so much power to shut liberals up it's scary. Edwards can run his gums all he wants to about gas prices. As a lawyer, he should know how supply and demand works. He's not going to win anyway, who would pay attention to him and his $400 haircut?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209832Thu, 31 May 2007 16:23:09 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209832Dennis E., Dallas, TXJerry, you never cease to amaze me. Your hypocricy has no bounds. Please go away or go to redstate.com where your views/prejudices/rants would be considerwed normal.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209845Thu, 31 May 2007 16:28:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209845Susan, MiamiSo much venom Jerry. I can't wait til a LIBERAL becomes president and you have a hissy fit-shrieking and foaming at the mouth when a WOMAN or BLACK MAN are sworn in. I'd love to be around to see that!! God, it's gonna be good to be an American again when that happens.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209896Thu, 31 May 2007 17:03:40 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209896Sierra, San FranciscoOf cousrse Joe Biden will collaborate with Faux Newz. The Faux commentators will rip up the Democratic front runners for him. Biden is an also ran who voted for to invade Iraq. The Bush/Biden/Clinton policy of invading and occupying Iraq is the worst foreign policy disaster since Viet Nam. It may end up being worse than Viet Nam. Explain your 2002 vote to invade a country that neither attacked or even threatened us, Joe. Why did your experience lead you to believe that Iraq was a "threat", Joe. Say it ain't so, Joe.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209899Thu, 31 May 2007 17:04:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209899IntheMIddle, TexasPaul: For once I agree with you. The reason George Bush gets so much hate and scrutiny is because we today have many information sources to pull from. This wasnt available just 10 yrs ago. If all of this technology was available during any former presidents tenure; they all would have experienced the same thing, including the ever "so-loved, cant do anything wrong, my sh*& dont stink Clinton"http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209913Thu, 31 May 2007 17:11:49 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209913MK,MOpaul miller, if you think that democracy is a form of goverment where the law of the land is written by and for corporations I guess that's what we have, I would rather try a different approach, when the election in 08 cmes to pass, which has already been bought and payed for by the wealthy elete, the repub,s can fordge ahead with they're plans for a utopian 2 class society that they have yearned so many years for, with rudy gulliani and steve forbes waving cheerfully to all us commoners knelt before they're greatness. as far as the history lesson I am more concerned on whats ahead not behind, as anyone that has to try and get by in todays world should be, history did not teach the repubs not to get involved in another vietnam, I believe there is a category for people that do the same again and again expecting different outcomes, republicans http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#209958Thu, 31 May 2007 17:50:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:209958Ashe, San FranciscoHillary's not as important as she may perceive herself to be. She forgot that LA is Kobe's town! As far as Hillary's endorsements are concerned...like George Steinbrenner she is recruiting expensive, top free agents...and like George Steinbrenner, she'll choke in the playoffs.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#210069Thu, 31 May 2007 19:00:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:210069mikeeg,abdn,waPaul the reason we were able to produce so much in ww11 was every other nation had been at war for a while and the US(allies side)had the production capacity that had not been bombed, the axis relied on a limited production capability fed by raw materials from occupied countries. When we(the USA) entered we were fresh and had raw materials and production capacity to churn out war materials. Who protects the constitution that protects rights and what good are rights if they are not rights for all? LIBERTY AND JSTICE FOR ALL..http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#210159Thu, 31 May 2007 19:50:55 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:210159MK,MOmikeeg,abdn,wa/ you bring up a good point on the u.s. as far as production capacity, we have none, the good repubs in the lust for slave labor and a quick buck have seen to it that we can no longer produce enough of anything in this country to defend ourselves in a real war, reckon when we get into a war with china they will honor our order for munitions, which party is supposed to be all smart on defense? maybe they can use all those dollar bills to line they're fox holes, or maybe the illegal they have cutting they're grass will take a bullet for themhttp://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#210614Fri, 01 Jun 2007 05:53:59 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:210614jerry/corpus christi texasSusan, the last time a liberal got elected president, his wife tried to take over the country and the GOP ran the liberals off after 40 years of control in the house and liberal president's wife got spanked and sent off to bed without any supper. Which also got her husband in trouble with a hot brunette, but that is another story. Be careful what you wish for Susan, it may come true again!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#210696Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:43:56 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:210696Susan, MiamiJerry go look in the mirror again. Your probably talking about yourself. Or... the next president will spank his wife and send her to bed and get in trouble with a hot brunette. Huh? What?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#210736Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:24:56 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:210736Independent, TexasSusan: (repeat of post in another thread) a word about Jerry/corpus and his ilk: some persons on these and other blogs, get their jollies by posting inflammatory statements and, then, sitting back and grinning over the resulting riots. They are free to do so but I choose to ignore them. If they say something of merit, I will respond in kind as a recognition to inspire such behavior in the future. Otherwise I leave them to their masturbatory pleasures. I have better things to do with my time. (ps: usually those who state such vitriol especially with regard to women and others such as homosexuals are trying to hide latent tendencies. (smile)) http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#210751Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:39:35 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:210751Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VAJerry, I must disagree with you again and take exception to you calling the brunette "hot." In fact, that reminds me... Clinton didn't lie. His microphone just cut off early. He actually said, "I did not have sex with that woman... I had sex with the woman who fit that blue dress."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209522.aspx#211005Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:30:14 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:211005jerry/corpus christi texasPaul, I have to disagree with you. Bill may have let Bin Laden get away and not being a good husband to his wife and getting himself into all sorts of problems, but I thought he showed good taste in Monica. I could say even more, but i thnk the head blogger may take umbridge to it, so I will pause for now. And Susan, in case you didn't get the hint, i was talking about Bill Clinton when his wife, Hillary Rodman Clnton tried to ram her socialized medicine down everyone's throat and she got bashed and sent away, which led to the revolution in 1994. Could happen again under a Hillary administration.