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H P Boston — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:37:26 GMT

MMmmm I like SICK Bush we should tag Bush with War not Peace, or Sicky Bushie the star of SICKO! Keep our health insurance High and the cures LOW! Vote for the Party of WAR and ANTI STEM CELL RESEARCH.

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diane — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:38:45 GMT

I was really happy to finally see an article that took a real look at the troubling aspects of Hillary. With the constant fawning of her by the msm and proclaiming her presidential, I always wonder why. she has put out no policy, triangulates, blurs. All the clinton tricks.
I have yet to see the msm take a real look at her, ask some of the tough questions and hold her to the same standards as the others.
she has been allowed to skate for far too long without the scrutiny the others have to go through.
By scrutiny, I mean, about her positions, her corporate ties and free trade ideas. Her union busting advisor and other things that would already be a hot topic if it was one of the others.
If Hillary wants to be president then she should be treated the same as the others. The office is not hers to be coronated to just because her husband use to be president. She needs to stand on her own two feet and stop having Bill bail her out all the time. she needs to prove why anyone should vote for her outside of her marriage.

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H P Boston — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:42:40 GMT

Well the pollsters are out there....
I think all women should answer with oh ya we want BLOOMBERG. Time to confuse the hell out of them, we want an independent. Remember women are the MARJORITY
so VOTE EARLY AND VOTE OFTEN!

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jtb — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:44:34 GMT

Gatekeepers for Hiliary???

Sounds like Praetorian guards are alive and well in the 21st century.

Or is it the SS?

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:47:07 GMT

With the way Liberals have pretty much destroyed Maine in the last few years, I don't see Susan Collins having much problems getting re-elected. Coming to a town near you: The slick willie and hillie show. Talk about a war in New York story coming soon.

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Amy B Portland, ME — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:48:12 GMT

Chuck Todd, maybe its inappropriate to comment on another political story on this thread, however I just read your piece conjecturing over '08 not being Hillary's year, and I could not disagree with you more. Kerry lost because voters didn't want to change Presidents in the middle of a war. At least, that was the reason the only person I knew who voted for Bush gave me (the bus driver I talked to on election night.) Think about the slop the Republicans threw on Kerry and ask yourself how much harder it would have been for Hillary to endure that kind of attack. If there is ever a year for Hillary, this is it, when people are so angry with Bush they are looking to vote for his opposite. Who else is Bush's most natural enemy, but Hillary? Furthermore, I saw the Chris Matthews tape and I had a completely different take on it. To me, Hillary was not so much trying to avoid answering the question about Libby, as she was turning the crowd's reaction to her advantage. I never knew she was as a good a politician as that: it was masterful, to my ears, pitch perfect. I still back Edwards because I think he represents real change, but, I have to say, I like Hillary more and more.

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jerri fan — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:53:56 GMT

jerri you go girl.

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H P Boston — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:57:29 GMT

WE have more dead Americans in Iraq. More WASTED lives for a lost WAR. Time to demand an end to this MISTAKE, THIS HUGE BLUNDER , THIS ILLEGAL INVASION

THIS CRIME! WE lay it at the feet of SICKO BUSH.

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H P Boston — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:00:34 GMT

AMY great post, you are a person who gives thought and
seeks info before you vote. Wish every American would do that.

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JoeCHI, Chicago, IL — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:05:12 GMT

For Todd, Matthews, and all the other straight Irish-Catholic males who quiver at the thought of a woman putting them in their place, I have something to say. TOO. F#*KN. BAD.

The day when voters require approval from the good ol' boys is over.

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Scott in South Texas — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:11:00 GMT

Fourteen more dead yesterday, and the Iraqi government's unraveling is accelerating. This what bush and them call progress?

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PATRIOT — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:14:35 GMT

HAVEN'T CHECK OUT HILLARY CLINTON'S WEB SITE YET ? WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR ? HILLARYCLINTON.COM , THE INFO. IS "FREE" AND THE KNOWLEDGE IS PRICELESS.

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H P Boston — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:18:54 GMT

JoeCHI.....YOU are so MY HERO! WELL SAID!

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:20:17 GMT

Amy--Hillary will not answer about Scooter Libby because Bill Clinton pardoned Marc Rich, she doesn't need that firestorm brewing in her life right now. She has more then enough controversy on her plate.

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Ricardo in California — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:28:25 GMT

With the way Republcians have destroyed this entire nation, made up a war, continue to allow thousands of americans to die, you know a Democratic landslide is inevitable in '08. Jerry and his fellow radical right wing "lets screw this nation" republicans are going down .....

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Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:29:00 GMT

Hillary blatantly didn't answer the question about Libby!!! Why couldn't she just say NO, I don't think he should be pardoned!!! The Libby scandal is sort of a big deal in politics these days. If anyone is liking Hillary "more and more" because of her performance at the AFSCME forum, as someone on this post stated, then the are not looking for real change!!!!

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Bush Republican — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:30:52 GMT

The Clinton's were scumbags then & they're scum bags still.

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Richard Fifield, Easton, PA — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:32:40 GMT

Amy B, Portland, ME--As a very disaffected Republican who did NOT vote for Bush in 2004, my own take on why Kerry lost that year is: (a) he was a very poor campaigner; (b) he had no message to get out; and (c) he had no record to point to. Kerry's sole selling point was that he served in Vietnam--laudable enough as far as it went, but hardly a basis for electing him President (my brother served in Vietnam and I wouldn't elect him, either). Kerry did nothing in 20+ years in the Senate to justify elevating him to the Presidency, and that, I think, was clear in the campaign.

Anyone who doubts that Hilary Clinton is a good politician (in addition to being a celebrity) does so at his/her peril. If she manages to win (and I hope she doesn't because I don't like Socialists or people whose policy inclinations are in that vein), she may turn out to be an effective President (particularly if she can curb her natural pro-government solution instincts), but I doubt she can win--she has too much baggage traveling with her right now.

I wish I could see someone who deserves to be President this time around, but right now there's nobody on the horizon who has the combination of experience, principles, and governing philosophy to justify electing. Maybe in time someone will materialize (though I'm not holding my breath).

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Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:32:55 GMT

Well said Jerry!!! How quickly people forget!!!

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Siegfried, Central Illinois — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:33:10 GMT

"With the way Liberals have pretty much destroyed Maine in the last few years, I don't see Susan Collins having much problems getting re-elected."
Jerry--
Care to give some facts to back this up? And by facts I don't mean anecdotes or rhetoric.

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JJ in NJ — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:33:37 GMT

Jerry, what the eff do you know about what's going on in Maine?

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HP Boston — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:33:43 GMT

LEWIS...ANY change is a GOOD change at this point.

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juan, ft lauderdale,fl — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:34:31 GMT

seven examples/reasons why the shrub/monkey boy has destroyed our country. 1) 10 billion dollars unaccounted for in Iraq and post-Katrina;2)50 billion estimated to cost before invasion;3)1.2 trillion estimated to finally cost;4)45 million americans w/o hlth insurance;5)5 million lost hlth insurance under Bush; 6)3 TRILLION the national debt has risen under Bush and finally 7) about 24% of our debt is owed to foreign countries like China/Japan which our future generations will have to pay. I AM SO DISGUSTED WITH THE RIGHT WING REPUBLICANS AND ASS KISSING BLOGGERS WHO HAVE THE AUDACITY TO CRITIZE DEMOCRATS AS TAX AND SPEND LIBERALS.

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Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:36:21 GMT

Well, that wasn't the truly awkward part, Jerry, nor the most direct aspect of Matthews' question to Hillary. She doesn't want to comment on a perjury conviction, period, and for obvious reasons. Its funny how the two sides switched their arguments from the late 1990s to now. I regularly hear Republicans now saying the perjury conviction shouldn't stand because there was no underlying crime, lol. Its priceless to see how either shameless or sheeplike these Republicans are. And of course the Democrats are the same, but just on the other side of this more current conviction.

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Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:49:59 GMT

SAY WHAT YOU FEEL!!! It seems to me that the Clintons have NEVER done that!!! I consider myself a democrat and I don't think Libby should go jail for 30 months!!! Why is that so hard for her to say. I just read Chuck Todd's article and I agree with him 100%. I would've been extremely excited about her candidacy in 2004, but she was too busy NOT HELPING Kerry's campaign so she could run in 2008. I don't think 2008 is her year--if this is truly a change election. Lastly, HP you're incorrect. ANY change isn't GOOD change at this point. The RIGHT change isd GOOD change.

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H P Boston — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:05:01 GMT

Jerry LIves in NORTHERN MEXICO!! (he thinks it's texas)
HE IS WAITING FOR AMNESTY! Pass that bill free jerry.
He wants to go to Maine with the MANICS!

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Carrie, NW Iowa — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:14:20 GMT

First of all, Hillary didn't run in 2004 because during her first Senate campaign she promised she would serve her full term.

I agree with Paul about the change in perceptions re: perjury in the last 10 years. Perjury is a serious offense in its own right, and I don't think those convicted of it should get a free pass. The problem that I have with the whole Clinton perjury thing is what he lied about. It still boggles the mind that we wasted millions of dollars to find out whether or not he got a blow job in the Oval Office. On the other hand, you have Libby, who was convicted of perjury for his role in covering up the leak of a CIA agent for political gains. Even though both instances deal with perjury, one is clearly a more serious violation than the other.

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:17:32 GMT

Pulling out the Maine Pig book 2007..., maine's median household income is $39,395. They have approximately 1.3 million residents. The state goverment is spending $222 per second. Maine's goverment is spending in less then three minutes what the average household makes in a year. maine's total debt right now is $12,553,180,000. The interest on that debt will cost the taxpayers of maine billions of dollars. By delaying the the payoff of the unfunded actuarial liability owed to the Maine state retirement fund from the year 2019 to 2028, an additional $2.4 billion will be unnecessarily spent by the state. That is $1850 for each man, woman and child that lives in the state. If you libs are so hot about this socialized medicine that Hillary is pushing, then you need to check out maine's version of socialized medicine, specially the Dirigo Health Initiative. That was supposed to eliminate non-insured people in Maine, this only added to the numbers. Just leave the current system alone and everyone will get along fine.

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H P Boston — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:23:01 GMT

HEY is Kerry still running? Lewis Forget about Kerry I heard he is not running. Wish it was so ,He would be a good President FOR A CHANGE.

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Ricardo in California — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:26:26 GMT

Hey Bush Republican .... you should know all about scumbags ... your White House has given scumbag a whole new meaning .... what the Clinton's did pales in comparison to the way Bush has screwed this nation.

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Mark, Dallas, TX — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:38:23 GMT

Ed Koch? Why does anyone listen to that laughable, closeted, bipolar old coot?

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dog gone cat — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:39:07 GMT

Why did his skull & bones peers call Geo W Bush 'LIPS?' Anybody...........? And were his lips big and red, small and pink, fat and brown, twisted and purple, botoxed and moist? And, yes, who did he do with those labia?

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dog gone cat — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:42:46 GMT

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:17 AM)

jerry, Maine's health care is a failure therefor national health care will be a failure....and also, jerry, my ford 150 isn't running, so don't buy an f150 because it won't run for you either.

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Ravine Force, Kissimmee, FL — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:57:43 GMT

Let's not forget Lieberman's incredible behavior. He is more Republican than Bush is. To think that he was once considered to be a VP candidate in the Democratic Party makes me ill. The best thing that happened in that defeat was his not being elected as VP.

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Paula, Maine — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:00:25 GMT

Maybe Collins should have a hard time in the next election for always putting party before the Mainers (not Manics) she is supposed to be representing

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Scott in South Texas — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:11:04 GMT

Carrie (11:14), I agree whole heartedly with your post, and would only add that the "important" difference for the republicans who are the most vocal on this subject is what Bill Clinton did vs. what bush and them did. To them, everything associated with Clinton is evil, while everything associated with bush and them is virtuous. Attacking Clinton is their method of defending bush and them, on this subject and all others. It's pathetic, but that's all they have.

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Mark Y; Westlake Village, CA — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:14:22 GMT

jerry,
once again, US Senators do not oversee state spending; the governors and state legislatures have that responsibility. therefore, your stats do not have a lot of bearing on Collins.
It is amazing that repugs think a bj is a far worse crime than letting the murderer bin Laden get away and doing away with the task force looking for him. this should be an issue the dems hammer the repubs; after all, they were supposed to be harder on crime and terrorism...where's the results? maybe that's another reason why generic polls are leaning dem.

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Amy B Portland, ME — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:16:35 GMT

Thanks for your interest in our state, Jerry. Dirigo is Latin for "I Lead," our state motto. That's what we have in Maine, leadership. We are trying to tackle the problem of our thousands of uninsured people ourselves (isn't that what conservatives are all on about, doing things at a state level?) Personally, I lived without Health insurance the entire time I worked 40+ hours a week at L.L.Bean for six years. That's when I learned that "what's good for Business is good for America" is not true. What are people supposed to do if their companies choose not to offer health insurance to all their workers? Alot of my political outlook has been shaped by my experience working for that company, and seeing how corporations exercise power. (Don't get me started on outsourcing and downsizing.) Dirigo Health is a struggling experiment but at least we are DOING something. And, if you think Maine is a liberal state, you really are "from away."

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H P Boston — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:22:15 GMT

Ah sorry Paula. Manics is a song,(DISCO) I never diss Maine.

I love Maine, "THE WAY LIFE SHOULD BE."

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Dave, Tn — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:27:06 GMT

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19113485 This is funny.
So is this. http://blogs.usatoday.com/gallup/2007/06/what_do_hmos_an.html

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HMT — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:30:28 GMT

If Hillary wins the Democratic primary I will vote for her.I will not listen to toejam morris or pufferface hannity scream,whine and moan about how awful it will be for America.They have sucked on the Bush buttocks for so long they have proven they do not have a love of country---only the party and cannot admit that Bush has been a the ugly american

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Russell in Maryland — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:31:04 GMT

Lieberman has given independents a bad name.

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OutWest — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:45:53 GMT

I'm thinking Bloomberg may be getting setup for 2012 rather tnan 2008. The signs are there for a Republican party split between the "classic" Republican (Country Club; Med/Small Business owner) and the Nixon/Reagan Republican (southern; fundamentalist religionists). Especially if the '08 electtion is the wipeout for Republicans that the polls indicate now.
Meaning Bloomberg forming a "classic" moderate conservative party with some "blue dog" Democratics. He would be betting that the Democratic President/Congress that wins in '08 would swing too far to left alienating the middle.

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JOHNNY JUSTICE ANYWHERE USA — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:10:02 GMT

I WONDER DID ANY OF THE REPUBLICANS STOP TO THINK, WHY SO MANY "LIBERAL" DEMOCRATICS GET SO UPSET AT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION. IT'S REALLY "SIMPLE", THE COUNTRY IS BEING RUN BY A BUNCH OF "IDIOTS". IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE. WE HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE BETTER ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISLE WHO COULD DO SO MUCH BETTER. BUT WERE STUCK WITH THEASE JERKS AND "WE" WILL ALL BE PAYING FOR THERE MISTAKES FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES.OH WE'LL BETTER DAYS HAVE GOT TO BE AHEAD, RIGHT NOW WE ARE LIVING IN A NIGHTMARE. THIS MOVIE HAS GOT TO END SOMETIME. A RESIGNATION WOULD BE NICE!

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Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:15:48 GMT

Perjury is Perjury reagardless of what is about. I'm absolutley AMAZED how anyone can defend Bill Clinton in his perjury case. Now mind you I think Bill Clinton paid a price for his perjury be being impeached, but think of what he could've accomplished without such foolishness. A VERY strong arguement could be made that the no crime was even made in the Libby trial. I guess it's true liberals are every bit as partisan as conservative---as liberal I'm coming to that realization.

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jtb — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:31:04 GMT

Ravine: Joe Lieberman in the only Humphery/Kennedy/Jackson/Daley/ Democrat left in that pitiful remnant of a once vibrant, America first, people first party that is now run by Mr. Soros and Move on. You should listen to the millions of independents/centrist Democrats who voted Green party.
they can tell you first hand what is wrong with the Sorocratic party in '07.

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CJ — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:41:56 GMT

Glad to see you on the blog Richard...a REAL and reasonable conservative voice..unlike puppets like Jerry.

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Susan, Miami — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:49:46 GMT

The more the repubs whine,and scream and attack Hillary, the more I want her to win. Can you imagine if a democratic female became president AND its Hillary Clinton, Bills wife. OH MY GOD IN HEAVEN!! The repubs would all stroke out and froth at the mouth. I will vote for Hillary not just because shes a democrat with liberal ideas, but the reaction from the repubs will be priceless!!Go Hillary.

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Mark Thieme — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:13:33 GMT

Richard Fifield: I concur. There is really no one who has emerged as a candidate who can unite our nation on the principles upon which it was founded. No Lincoln, TR, FDR. No JFK, no Ford. Perhaps it is a stretch, but we have no Clinton either. We go into our future not with the president we may want, but we go, prayerfully, with the president we have. Lord, have mercy.

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Richard Fifield, Easton, PA — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:16:47 GMT

CJ--Thanks for the compliment. I try. I don't know if Jerry is a "puppet" or not. He may just be as angry as most of the liberal/leftist/Democratic bloggers on this site.

I get upset with the base, caustic, and knee-jerk reactive tone of some posters, too. But I've followed politics long enough to know that name-calling, denigrating, and destructive discourse is fundamentally non-persuasive and, therefore, ultimately futile. It's easy to attack, tear down and destroy. What's a LOT harder is to propose constructive alternatives. Neither side seems to want to do that harder job; that's why our political discourse is so shrill, partisan and empty, and, ultimately, why so little gets done. I try, whether in discussing politics or in posting here, to propose constructive alternatives, or at least to explain why I don't agree with (or why I question) a position.

If I don't succeed, I know I can count on someone out there to call me on it. I hope someone will.

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Richard Fifield, Easton, PA — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:43:00 GMT

Mark Thieme--I might take issue with your placing FDR and Kennedy in the same class as Lincoln and maybe TR, since by my understanding of the Constitution FDR did more damage to the concept of limited government than anyone except perhaps LBJ, and Kennedy saw himself (and his governing philosophy) in the FDR mold, but I do agree that most of today's politicians have lost sight of the Jeffersonian-Madisonian view of the role of the national government in our Federal system as a government of limited and delegated powers, and I certainly don't understand why people with concerns about health care, education, welfare, urban issues, and a whole host of other issues are so anxious to get into power in the national government (which has no power or right to deal with these) rather than staying in State government (which has the power and should be dealing with them). I've never heard a good reason for that phenomonon. If anyone has one, I'm very interested.

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Dave, Tn — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:51:42 GMT

Hey Richard Fifield. What do you think of Lindsey Graham? If Republicans are "stuck" with someone from the Senate I'd rather it be him. Not totally sure about his voting record. Going mostly on news show interviews. At least he can talk :-)

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:09:55 GMT

maine must be a iberal state with the stuff they have pulled over the eyes of the taxpayers. Now what I am trying to figure out here is: The governor of maine makes $70,000 a year, which for a state with a household income of $39,395 is not bad. But the state medical examiner Margaret Greenwald, makes $168,216.72!!!!! Trish reily, the governor's assistant makes $101,000 a year. The assistant makes more then her boss??????? When legislators need a tangible view of wasted tax dollars, they need only to look out their window. They just spent $990,000 onlanscaping the grounds around the state office building (ironically known as the SOB). the point is Amy, with the rising debt in maine, you all had better tighten up the belts if you don't want to be known as the "Califonia of the east".

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jjGA — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:13:52 GMT

Sadly the good, honest and dedicated Americans out there who may be qualified to be our president won't run or attempt to run. Takes much more money than normally HONEST people have and takes more deal doing and favor taking than most HONEST people are willing to do to win. So, on the one hand we need someone who is dedicated to the best for our country and our people, on the other hand, that sort of person has a slim to none chance of ever making it. Big money has seen to that. I guess the challenge lies with grassroots movements to change the system, but the same challenges face the grassroots movements. We must keep our hope alive though and try to sort through through the lesser of many evils when it is time to cast our votes. Until we can get law respecting and law ABIDING people in government, then we have to wait for one side to expose the other, on and on and on - heaven only knows how much we DON'T know based on the volumes of garbage we DO know. Is this how young wonderful democracies are run into the ground over centuries until in the end they are back where they began with the elite few rich and powerful trampling the "commoners" as they grow richer and more powerful? History will tell, I suppose, if this is the fate of our great nation. Too many of us have become so apathetic we have no clue what is going on - too busy working, going to the latest movies, shopping, watching the game, running kids to practice --. Seems earlier generations understood and APPRECIATED the privilege of being able to choose and to vote for their leaders. As with so many things, perhaps we take so much of it for granted now that a few have the upperhand and can shape our future to suit their desires ahead of what is right for our nation. Perhaps we will have a "new awakening or revival" of national patriotism to include more than just our love and support of our dear and precious military and their families. That goes without saying, but then it often stops there with no effort to work for change if we see change needs to be made. But - we are Americans and Americans WILL find a way - sooner or later we will get it right. We must - for the sake of our grandchildren and their grandchildren. It does get quite tiring though when the press just goes ape over the Bloomberg news or pounces on any and every detail of each and every hopeful so early in this LONG, TIRING election campaign. I would much prefer the press give more attention to what the present admin. and houses are doing NOW here and worldwide -- on port security, border security, ID theft, etc. etc. - ISSUES we all have to deal with. Let the contenders do their thing and then in a few months when they are running low on hot air - let us decide who makes the most sense. For now - all of us are waiting for the dirt to come out on each of them - each of them is waiting for the right time to sling the dirt on their opponents - so it is going to get awfully old by voting time.

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jtb — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:20:28 GMT

Johnny Justice: you mean, like we are paying the rest of our lives for the mistakes of Jimmy Carter? (Iran) (ayatollah Khomeini), Bill Clinton? (Osama bin Laden)(North Korea and nuclear technology transfer) (Uganda genocide). At least we bagged Saddam during this administration. that's more than you can say for ole' Jimmie and slick Willie.
sleep tight: the Iranian nuke will be built soon. Guess who's country is gonna be the next home of the Hiroshima sunburn?

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Richard Fifield, Easton, PA — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:46:21 GMT

To Dave, TN--I don't know enough about Senator Graham to comment at this point. He's not running (as far as I know), so that sort of disqualifies him for anything but a draft (which isn't likely). I don't like his stand on "comprehensive" immigration reform, since he seems to favor the current Senate bill, but beyond that, he may be okay. I just don't have enough information to go on.

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J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:49:29 GMT

Hey diane....did you hold "W" to that same standard when it came to his father? I don't think so.

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Ravine Force, Kissimmee, FL — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:51:58 GMT

jtb, to compare Lieberman to those above mentioned causes them to turn over in their graves. No, Lieberman is an out of touch individual blinded by the fear that the USA will leave the Middle East thus creating a loss of contribution to his political treasure from our allies in Israel.

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Rick, WS — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:12:07 GMT

the texass concern for maine is funny...give us the stats on your worthless upside down state...

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jtb — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:15:14 GMT

Ravine: you're brainwashing is complete. Tell me, were you even ALIVE when the aformentioned politicians
made their Democratic, America and Americans first, marks on our political landscape?

If you were, you would realize just how far left you, and the Sorocratic party, are of their ideals.

Fear not, those real democrats disenchanted with the Sorocratic party will once again unite behind an Independent candidate, just like in 2000. Maybe this time we'll beat BOTH parties.

P.S: be careful, you're Antisemitism is showing, whcih would really make Kennedy, Humphrey, Jackson, Stevenson etc., REALLY turn over in their graves.

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Carrie, NW Iowa — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:28:09 GMT

Lewis - So to you, lying under oath about having oral sex in the oval office is a greater crime than lying under oath about what was done to ruin a CIA agent and her husband for political gain? (We'll put aside the covert debate, just for the saek of argument). Yes, lying under oath is wrong...it is wrong in every situation in which it occurs, period. However, I am much less disturbed about someone lying under oath about their consensual sexual activities than I am about the involvement of several high-ranking officials in a activities that directly impact and reflect the safety of our citizens. Lest you forget, even if Valerie Plame was no longer covert, the operations she had worked in were exposed when she was. It is a very big deal. Getting a blow job...not so much, except if you are Bill.

Perjury is Perjury reagardless of what is about. I'm absolutley AMAZED how anyone can defend Bill Clinton in his perjury case. Now mind you I think Bill Clinton paid a price for his perjury be being impeached, but think of what he could've accomplished without such foolishness. A VERY strong arguement could be made that the no crime was even made in the Libby trial. I guess it's true liberals are every bit as partisan as conservative---as liberal I'm coming to that realization.

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Desmond — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:41:45 GMT

I know I saw the name bin Laden somewhere in this thread. did we get him? President Bush promised us on a pile of rubble that he would get him dead or alive. so, did he get him?

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Robb, STL — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:50:40 GMT

Yeah Desmond, they got him...got him and his family to safety.

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Scott in South Texas — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 21:15:59 GMT

Ravine, jtb said I was anti-semitic a few months back because I criticized Israel, and now he's saying the same thing to you for criticizing Lieberman. I swear, jtb makes jerry in corpus sound like Mahatma Ghandi.

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Don in LA — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 22:13:34 GMT

jtb...another prime example of NCLB

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mainefem in Brewer, Maine — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 00:36:25 GMT

Moveon wasn't the only fundraiser for Tom's chat tonight, peeps...pls. fact check a bit more closely, CNN?

Hardly $3,000 per plate (more like two granola bars Tom scarfed down before blogging).

Priceless, indeedy we aren't quite finished as yet).

http://tinyurl.com/25o2w9

http://tinyurl.com/2g3uqt

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jtb — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:10:55 GMT

Scott: if Ravine's comment about Lieberman wasn't blatantly anti-semitic, I don't know what is.

Change the name of her mentioned politician, and substitue Africa for Israel, and you two would be howling for a hate crime investigation.
Isn't is amazing how some forms of racism/bigotry get swept under the rug for political expediency? Go read your history of my aformentioned Democratic politicians, and SEE where they stood on Israel.

You can run, but you can't hide from historical truth.

Oh, my God! did I dare utter a moral absolute??

First thoughts

jtb — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:13:16 GMT

Don: I was a conservative before you were even BORN.

First thoughts

Scott in South Texas — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:40:29 GMT

jtb, it is obvious that you are overly sensitive to any criticism of Israel, or any person of the Jewish faith for any reason, but Ravine's comment wasn't even remotely anti-semitic, much less blatant. Anti-Zionism does not equate to anti-semitism. Lighten up, compadre.

First thoughts

Lee Holmes — Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:09:53 GMT

Scott-Yet this is the prima-facie defense used by those who are critical of the Jewish State.So often dragged out that it should be translated into the Latin and hung on a sign above the DNC HQ in Washington.[''Anti-Zionism Does Not Equate To Anti-Semitism''].Yet small glimpses of what consists of this ''anti-Zionism''will sometimes break through with uncomfortable results.Virginia Democrat Jim Morans comments that the ''Jews are too powerful''[this was mirrored by comments made by filmmaker Michael Moore while in France back in 2004].By now,everyone is aware of 2004 Democrat presidential candidate Al Sharptons comments regarding the ''diamond merchants''of NYC.Or McKinneys[D-Ga] father blaming ''The Jews''for her first congressional defeat.
Leftists on the west coast were able to transfer a dark conspiricy aimed at ''AIPAC''[here,the states Democrat congressional rep Barbara Lee-Oakland, acted in a most disgraceful manner by adding emotive fuel to the fire],into a fullfledged anti-Semitic pogrom in 2002 at two major California universities,one at UC Berkeley,where Jewish students were beaten and their Hillal House studies center had its windows smashed,and one at USF across the bay where anti-AIPAC forces used their displeasure at ''Zionism''to attack Jewish students at a more personal level.[a shocked San Francisco Chronicle for May 07,2002,ran a photo from the universities protest showing angry students bearing a sign upon which was drawn:''Hitler Didn't Finish The Job''].The chancellors of both universities ran open letters in this newspaper pleading for the anti-Semitic violence to stop.As expected, the defense of the students then on university trial for potential expulsion was that they were ''anti-Zionist''.Not ''anti-Semitic'',although looking at bloodied Jewish kids and broken glass on the plaza ground made it tough to tell the differance.
What I find truly strange is that AIPAC is no differant than a legion of lobbyists committed to racial,social,economic,religious or ideoligical allegiances.It is quite easy to make the case that many are even more powerful than AIPAC,especially in energy,pharmasutical,senior,gun,abortion[or anti],or environmental concerns.Yet AIPAC is dependably singled out as a sort of all-encompassing Illuminati,which is found to be based much less on ''anti-Zionism''than the historical mistrust of Jews which can be found in a direct line stretching back from the comments of an American congressman to Mein Kamph or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion,to the early Czars of Russia.
Sadly,this also translates into support for those aligning themselves against this ''Zionism''who just happen to be among the most deadly terrorists on this planet today.So singleminded is their defense of these[Jimmy Carter,whose reputation is being wrecked by this allegiance even in the face of patent horror and brutality],that they ignore the most liberal principles that they avow to hold.One will easily see ''Gay Pride''parades in Tel Aviv absolutely no differant than those found in San Francisco.Try being a gay man in Gaza.You would not live to see the sun set.How many ''governments''are there in Gaza or among their helpers in Saudi Arabia,Iran,or Egypt?One and one only.Pass to Israel,and the Labour-liberal ''Dove''co-exists alongside of the conservative Likkud ''Hawk'',with each,having a representative form of government,being democratically elected at turns according to the whim of the citizen.[Jeez.That sounds like right here].No jazz in Gaza.No discos.No rock-and-roll.No rap.No ''degenerate''arts.No hip-huggers.No low-cut blouses.No twelve-year-old single malt Scotch.No free press.No rights for women.A totally and completely illiberal society supported by liberals in a world turned upside down.A nation of less than eight millions surrounded by over a hundred million who scream for their blood.[when they do not scream for ours].No thanks.I,like my father before me when he served with Col. Mickey Marcus in post-WWII Israel[we were/are both Gentiles.Marcus'dramatized life can be seen in 1965s ''Cast A Giant Shadow''starring Kirk Douglas and John Wayne],will cast our lot with these ''Zionists''.[as I have no problems with gays,rock-and-roll,low-cut blouses,free speech,free press,free government,twelve-year Scotch,Warhol exhibits,or hip-huggers.I still detest disco,however].

First thoughts

Renee who — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:00:26 GMT

First thoughts

Renee who — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:03:38 GMT

Hard working mom gets punished for going throuh difficult time. Deadbeat dad awarded for negligence,
at the hands of Cincinnat Children's Services and the Court