Libby pays $250,000 fine

JIrby, Colorado — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:39:30 GMT

I don't know if Libby has suffered enough. I do know that Bush and Cheney haven't.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Dawn, somewhere in Kansas — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:45:56 GMT

Mark, you have to ask where Libby got the money to pay the fine? What about that defense fund that was set up for him by the Republicans? There probably is several millions left in it. Chuck, please give Mark a few days off, he really needs it.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Desmond — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:47:40 GMT

ayep, Judge Walton is first sworn to uphold the law.He is secondarilly, a Republican.I would say he a standard bearer for "Lady Justice".

Libby pays $250,000 fine

HMT — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:49:16 GMT

Old Fred Thompson had a well funded get out of jail piled up for scooter.Accordingly of % million dollars----whoa---Scooter even made some money for keeping his mouth and brain shut.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Mark Murray — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:50:25 GMT

Dawn, that rhetorical question was alluding precisely to that defense fund. Thanks.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

ddcasper, Columbia, SC — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:51:59 GMT

Probably got the funds from "Tricky Dick's" non executive office, before those funds get cut off from the Congress.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Lee Holmes — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:53:26 GMT

Heh.Libby may have gotton the dough from the same people that allowed the Clintons[specifically,Bill],to pay off his own fines....The Arabs.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

John Doe, The Peanut Gallery — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:56:32 GMT

Yeah. Mark's question is exactly on point. Scooter Libby got his commutation (a pardon to follow as soon as that isn't inconvenient for the Bush administration), his fine was paid for by the Republicans for Voldemort slush fund, and his court imposed porale is now in question. Justice for all... unless you're a Republican. The founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Desmond — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:56:34 GMT

Mark Murray, as a journalist, don't allude. Please state the facts.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Dawn, somewhere in Kansas — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:05:56 GMT

Mark, maybe I'm the one that needs a few days off. Can't see rhetoric today.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Susan, Miami — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:07:10 GMT

The repubs that donated to this fund paid it off. What a rotten bunch of human beings. The dummy and his ventriloquist(Bush and Cheney) are just digging themselves a bigger hole to fall deeper into.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Dave, Tn — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:07:14 GMT

Remember Libby was Marc Rich's Lawyer. It was probably money left over from the bribe to buy that pardon. Who knew what Clinton's price was going to be?

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Bob Wilson — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:13:48 GMT

Why dont you all read the facts rather than rattling through the atypical comments coming from the papers. You may learn something.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Desmond — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:15:17 GMT

Scooter had about $500,00 left in his defense fund.Supplied by Fred Thompson and Republicans that supported him.That is a fact.Remember what our President said about all those evil-doers. Follow the money.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

scott — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:26:33 GMT

nice one, mark. if you guys ever have any opening in your office, i want to apply! love the msnbc political team. i'm a young professional looking to get outta my current job!

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Mark Murray — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:27:20 GMT

Dawn, trust me -- I'm happy to take off any day I can get as busy as politics have been. Having yesterday off was nice. :)

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Sidney, Pa — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:45:36 GMT

Now that Scooter has all the monkeys off his back, Cheney doesn't ever have to worry about him dragging the vice presedent into this, to avoid pumishment. looks like Cheney and Bush did it again.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

desmond — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:51:16 GMT

Mark Murray, all of us would like to have a day off. Guess that's we have Labor Day, instituted by the Carpentor's Union of America, way back in the 1880's. You recall. 7 day work week, children included.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:59:29 GMT

Mark...I have a question for you since you chose to chime in on this specific blog.
WHY does the mainstream press give this administration such a HUGE pass on EVERYTHING?
The August 6th PDB is a prime example (read the last two paragraphs), and this thing with Libby is another.
We alll know that by commuting his sentence instead of pardoning him, Bush gives Libby the right to claim 5th amendment priviledges if he's called to testify before congress. That means he doesnt have to say a word about Cheney, Bush or Rove.
BUT, if he were to be fully pardoned that priviledge would not apply, and he would have to answer questions or be found in contempt of congress.
Why does the mainstream press allow Bush to get away with this?....and you KNOW I'm right about this, it happens all the tiume

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Dawn, somewhere in Kansas — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:00:36 GMT

Mark, hope you were able to enjoy fireworks yesterday. I can tell that you enjoy doing what you do here on First Read. I know that sometimes we give you a hard time, but I do thank you for what you do here. The next year and half will be really busy so take off the time that you can so you can continue to keep us all informed.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Nick Dorsey — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:01:43 GMT

Too bad, Libby won't have as much $$$ left over from the defense fund. So much for the swimming pool he was installing this summer. Guess he will have to go out and get one of those fancy do nothing "no think tank jobs" like Wolfowitz.

Thank you Mark. I think it is pretty cool that you are willing to interact with us of the unwashed masses. It shows way more class than the vast majority of your fellow commentators. Some make the most inane comments and then hide behind the skirts of anonymity.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Sierra, San Francisco — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:02:05 GMT

President Bush has set a precedent: it's OK for the President's men to commit perjury. If anyone in the Executive branch is caught perjuring themselves, they'll get a Presidential pardon. I hope this is OK with conservatives. Don't squeal if it happens under a Democrat. Frankly, I don't think any future Democratic admin (except possibly Hillary's) will need to pardon anyone. But, if they do, please don't complain, you self righteous, sanctimonious conservatives.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Nick Dorsey — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:11:35 GMT

There is an upside to this if Fitz' will do it. Now, with the commutation, he could immunize Libby giving him use immunity. Then take him before the Grand Jury again and he would not be able to invoke the 5th since there would be no criminal jeopardy. That means if he lied it would be a whole different crime.

You heard it here first if Fitz' has the nerve and the will to do it.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Prof Gerard, Houston — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:15:12 GMT

desmond: what makes what you say fact and what others say nonsense. Im a democrat but I dont like the way this blog goes sometimes. I like to hear both sides. Frankly both sides can argue any issue presented in the light to which each sees it. That does not make ones point correct nor does it make it wrong. So what we have in political dialogue is basically opinion. That is all I get out of political arguements. Politicians on the other hand will say and do ANYTHING to get elected. that goes both ways and you know its true. See I have stated my point without dipping to calling Bush names.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

David, Tallahassee FL — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:16:22 GMT

Income tax question:
You are allowed to receive $11,000 dollars from a single source as a gift. Anything above that counts as income. Let's say I am on the hook for a million or so in legal fees and a quarter million in fines, and a friend raises the cash for a "legal defense fund" for me. I then use the funds to pay the bills and fines. Am I liable then for the taxes on the gift I received?

I'd say, "Yes." But given the two-tiered justice system that has developed, I doubt that little Scooter has that worry.

I'd love to see a journalist cover this angle.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Blue state baby — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:26:50 GMT

All of these repubs in this administration are a rotton bunch of human beings, as Susan, Miami stated. Bush is a lying wannabe cowboy, notice how he walks with his arms away from his hips pretending he has six shootor there. Cheney is a sneaky controlling tycoon of big business. The repub candidates are no better. Giuliani (a hot headed gangster) Romney ( a weirdo) McCain (an old Bush) Fred Thompson (a red neck actor). The rest of the field is not worth concerning yourself with.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Susan, Miami — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:52:13 GMT

Mr Professor, Our president deserves to be called names. Most of us little folk have no other way to express our "shock and awe" when our LEADERS decide to break the countrys laws and start a war on false pretenses(kill our young people for no reason)and destroy this country in every conceivable way. We have to do something, to make us feel better. Bush and Cheney are all the rotten names listed and words cannot express our frustrations for these horrendous people.Helplessness is what I feel.George W. Bush is a %$+*&#(^%$tupidevil$@#**sonofab----$@#&%!!!!!Hows that.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Jake — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:59:30 GMT

I believe Judge Walton is incorrect about "completion" of a sentence, and Libby technically served ONE DAY by being booked and assigned an Inmate Number : )

P.S. to David:

I believe gift-taxes are payable by the donor, not the recipient. Check with your CPA however.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Desmond — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:07:47 GMT

To the 3:15 post, My name is Desmond with a capital D.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

If I was the pres, I would just laugh, Georgia — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:11:35 GMT

Susan: You have just proved his point. You can have political dialogue without resorting to the name calling. The last time I read, it was against the law to make remarks that can be understood as threatening to the president. Sometimes people say things that they probably sholnt be saying. If the Secret Service enforced this, I wonder how many would say some of those hateful things. Besides it doesnt affect Bush in the least. He just laughs it off because you are never going to please people that are against you from day 1.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Desmond — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:25:17 GMT

And, oh yes, 3:15 post, demoting me to a lower case d does not prove that what I have stated is not based on facts.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Al, Chicago,Il — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:40:43 GMT

What was the underlying crime? It's a joke that Libby's trial went forward without anything "underneath" that was wrong!

In case you missed it (because the media has done such a poor job of providing background and context), Plame wasn't covert. She worked right at Langley - in plane view of all of the foreign spies with cameras, etc. for quite some time. If she was covert, Fitzgerald would have done somthing. He did not and he knew that Armitage was the original source from day one. This whole Plame thing is another liberal/media creation that wasted several years of time, put some people in jail (journalists) and cost lots of people lots of money - for nothing.

The trial should have been thrown out. Bush should have pardoned him.

I suggest you people read up on pardons and take a look at Clinton's record if you really want to complain without doing research:
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pardonchartlst.htm

Libby pays $250,000 fine

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:45:48 GMT

Jake....nice try.
But, the booking process has never counted as "time served." As Casey Stengel once said..."you can look it up."

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Bart, Colorado — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:49:00 GMT

Suasan-Miami, Her last paragraph (3:52)is so well put. I am sickened to my bones by the blazen actions of these "Americans" in power. I want to cry until I realize I have two children, my brother does too, and that alot of my friends do too and that it would seem to me the people I've never met all over this country probably love their kids as well, and I think of the legacy of hate they inheret, then I want to scream and sob and wretch! The right wingers that are offended by name-calling should pull their heads out of the sand and look in the mirror for a little shame, empathy, and common sense. Clinton bashing now is like complainig of that ahngnail while walking into a valcano.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Bart, Colorado Springs, Colorado — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:56:35 GMT

Al-4:40. Please keep the Rush/Hannity jargon for your nephews at the family reunion. Plame was brass-plate, and yes covert. Wake up, didn't it occur to you yet that it was a message to others to keep quiet, that her husbands report about the lack of justification for war were what this is about? Partisan politics aside, that is treason. No ops in Iran- no good info about their actions or intent. Boogey-man in a turbin anyone?

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Bart, Colorado — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:04:41 GMT

Al-Chicago, No offense, but have you noticed that alot of advertisers in that media of ours these days are for the big companies that are making a BUNCH of money off the industrial war machine like KBR? Needed a oil-rig lately? That message from shell oil meant for me personaly? Well for them to pull the funding on a media source would be devastating and that is why and who runs the media- big business.
Liberal media-yeah right!

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Dan, Los Angeles — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:20:51 GMT

Screw upholding the constitution. A perfect example of how twisted things are. To have Watergate times a in a imperialist country celebrating adding Iraq as a new state to which I have personally sewn a star on our flag…………Go Bush I mean "Hiel Dubya"

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Bart, Colorado — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:22:51 GMT

Geargia, Let me finish this comment without offending...It seems to me that due to dems having a little more of an openminded originating point-race, age, sex, religion (or lack thereof), I think we wern't against Bush, we were just cautious because he stole the election. I often wonder if you far right supporters think that when Bush decides the 08 election are defunct, declares a police state and is driving his militia led caravan down your main street, do you think he's going to call out to you to jump down off your porch and c'mon over to the white house for a little dinner???
(Wouldn't the conversation bore even you?) He is an elitist under-achiever that cares about only himself-NOT YOU!

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Scott in South Texas — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:32:49 GMT

Al, Chicago, bush and them depend on people like you, who either (1) don't understand what they're doing, or (2) accept and/or admire what they're doing. What they really like most about people like you is they don't even have to kiss you first.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Bart, Colorado — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:34:45 GMT

Blue state baby, I am a man. The things Bush does are as far from manliness as possible. Saying to the world things like "Bring em' on", "We'll smoke him out", "I'm a war president", "I'm the commander-guy", "It would be easier if I were the dictator", War trumps peace"...these are the words of a sad little boy that isn't in touch with any sort of masculinity. He publicly followed these by repeating the filthy blood soaked montra-"Stay the course" and "I don't know where he is-I don't spend that much time on it". Sad, pathetic, phsychotic, meglomainia babble...

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Bart, Colorado — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:45:20 GMT

Dan, are you serious? I hope not! I don't think you could've turned on your own computer if you were.
Is 'Walker Texas Ranger' over? If you were serious, let me ask you about a few words like 'Humility' and 'Humanity'...'Caring' comes to mind...yes go get the dictionary, and please answer me back. By the way I am a veteran and a firefighter, a father and a gun-owning liberal that will continue to fight for everyones rights. P.S. four blogs ago was my first time on a site like this...spelling is harder than it looks!

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Bart, Colorado — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:47:32 GMT

Hello??? Did I ruin the party?
I'm going to tell myself to shut-up!!!

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Al, Chicago,Il — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:49:46 GMT

Bart, she wasn't covert. You are wrong. If she was, she wouldn't have been driving to Langley - for five years. Regardless, seeing how hard Fitzgerald went after Libby, you'd think there would be an underlying crime – and there wasn’t. And Fitzgerald apparently knew about Armitage from day one.

As for her husband, he lied about his whole involvement. He had to retract some things he said after the Senate Intelligence Committee report found he had "misspoken". Then, look at the timeline for his NY Times article. It took him 6 months to write it after Bush's State of the Union. Coincidently, during this six months, he got close to Kerry. Gee, do ya think there is any connection between his political involvements with an opponent and with what he would assert to the media? Duh, of course! And, Wilson’s claim that Bush lied about the yellowcake has been proven wrong – it’s just that the liberal media hasn’t caught up (actually, they’ll never catch up). Here’s a story on this:
http://www.slate.com/id/2146475

The bottom line is the liberals put us all through another wild goose chase with the media being happy to keep pushing it along. We all suffer with Liberalism.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Al, Chicago,Il — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 00:45:47 GMT

Bart (5:22pm), how did Bush steal the election? What are you talking about? Gore was never ahead and he lost.

If you are referring to the Florida Supreme Court overstepping it's bounds by making law, then you need to learn how the courts are supposed to work.

First, courts are supposed ot interpret the law not make it. The Florida Courts tried to change election law. That was a no no. The Chief Justice said that their ruling would surely not hold up to the US Supreme Court and he was right.

Your illusion that Bush stole the election is just silly. Please try to learn more about how things work and then you should be able to adjust your opinion.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Nick Dorsey — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 00:49:18 GMT

Al, all I'm going to say is that in the indictment and other attendant comments, Fitz' specifically stated that Plame was a covert operative. To out such an agent is a serious felony and in my estimation and that of virtually all commentators, it amounts to treason.

The difficulty in prosecuting anyone for the underlying crime is the language of the law. The wording of the relevant federal statutes is such that it requires certain specific intent which is hard to prove under the best of circumstances. However Libby's obstruction of justice made it obviously impossible to do so.

The reason this situation is so different from Clinton other than the obvious disparity in the gravity of the underlying offense is this. Libby obstructed a thorough investigation of the degree to which his superiors, i.e. the President and VP either directly or indirectly had something to do with what occurred.
Had Libby been facing jail, it might have been possible to get the whole story out of Libby in exchange for a deal on jail time. Now regardless of what really happened, by direct intervention of the President who may or may not himself have been implicated, it will be difficult, maybe impossible, to ever know the truth. In effect by his action, Bush has become a co conspirator in obstructing the investigation that relates to potential actions by himself and the VP, or even other adminstration persons.

There is one possibility open. I believe because of the commutation, if Fitz' has the will and the courage he can immunize Libby. That means he can take Libby before the grand jury again with use immunity and since he would not have any criminal jeopardy, Libby cannot invoke the 5th. If he didn't tell the truth, that would be a whole different crime.

Go Fitz' Go!

I suppose Congress could also give Libby immunity as they did, I think it was with Goodling?, in the AG investigation. Remember how she sang like a canary.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Frank "Grimey" Grimes, Springfield, USA — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:02:25 GMT

I'm sorry, but this whole case has shown the hypocrisy that exists on BOTH sides of the aisle. When Clinton perjured himself, Dems couldn't believe the Reps would go after him for something as insignificant as perjury. The Reps couldn't believe he could do something as serious as perjury. Now, with Libby, the Dems can't believe President Bush could commute a perjurers sentence. It's such a serious crime. And the Reps are saying that it is insignificant. Each party uses whichever argument benefits it at the time.

And then they call each other hypocrites. Then, there is the issue of pardons. Clinton pardons Marc Rich and the Reps are talking about amending the Constitution to prevent such an abuse of power. Now, Bush commutes Libby's sentence and the Dems are talking about hearings. It's enough to make you go look for a 3rd party!!

Also, someone mentioned that they don't think a Dem President will pardon anyone. Let's be honest and look at the pardons of the last few presidents:
George W. Bush has pardoned 113 and commuted 4.
By comparison, his father, former President George H.W. Bush, granted 74 in four years; former President Bill Clinton granted 396 in eight years; former President Ronald Reagan did 393 in eight; former President Jimmy Carter did 534 in four.

The last 2 Dem presidents have pardoned FAR more than the last 2 Rep presidents. The fact is that it is something that all presidents can and will do.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Blue state baby — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:12:51 GMT

You Go Susan, Miami!! I like you Girl!!!

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Amy B Portland, ME — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:59:17 GMT

Grimey,

I found your post regarding lies and pardons very reasonably argued. If this is how you see it, I can understand why you might think the outrage over the Libby pardon is overblown. Its true, all administrations engage in lying. What gets my goat, however, in the Libby case, is that the lies involve the administration's case for taking us to war. I remember when Joe Wilson's article about going to Niger came out...it was one of the only dissenting voices of any authority I heard. It still blows my mind that the administration's first instinct was to asassinate the critic's character. I can't get over the image of these grown men getting together and deciding to each call a reporter to spread the news Wilson's wife was a CIA agent. They say they didn't know she was covert and that blowing her cover endangered people she might have worked with. Don't these guys get training on the rules for disclosing information? And what kind of men go after a man's wife anyway? And then, the lying to the Grand Jury. Judith Miller spent months in jail to protect her source for the leak....Libby. She went to jail for a principle, and now Bush says Libby should be spared jail time because its too excessive. Why didn't Libby spare Judith Miller from serving jail time by telling the truth...that he leaked Plame's name to her? I concur with you that Clinton lying to the Grand Jury about sex with Monica and pardoning Marc Rich were despicable acts, but his behavior tells me more about his personality than it does about the policies of his administration. I don't recall him lying about the situation in Kosovo or having his aides engage in a whispering campaign against administration critics. That, to me, is the difference.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Independent, Texas — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:54:53 GMT

Frank "Grimey" Grimes, Springfield, USA (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 7:02 AM)

Good going for expressing your opinion without slurs. Thank you.

Some factual clarification:

1) Most important - the issue on the table happened during the term of this president, possiby indicating guilt OF the president. That is what is so awful about this. Mr. Libby isn't the problem.

2) Mr. Clinton was never convicted of a crime. Mr. Libby was.

3) Mr. Clinton's pardons took place as he exited office which meant that they had no impact on the way that he conducted the executive branch.

3) Mr. Bush had/has declared on several occasion by voice and in print that he would not interfere with this case. He did.

The outrage is over why he did it now instead of when Mr. Bush leaves office in Ja/09. The implication is that he is covering his own rear end. If he thought the prison term too harsh, a full pardon as he left office would have cut that term in half. In his commutation statement he was careful to avoid saying that he thought Mr. Libby innocent of the charges.

That is the true reason for outrage - it has nothing to do with Mr. Libby per se.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Desmond — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:44:18 GMT

Judge Walton has ordered both sides back in court on Monday.He wants to hear arguments on how someone's sentence can be commuted when they have not served any time for that sentence.the legal implicatons will keep this case at the forefront for quite some time.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

IntheMiddle, Texas — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:05:14 GMT

Independent: Good twist and spin. You sound like you received your talking points this morning.
1. ALL POLITICIANS cover their own azz. Show me one that doesn't. Thats what I thought; can't think of any.
2.Clinton was convicted in the House too which has impeaching powers. The Senate was split so they couldnt do anything.
3.His pardons was for actions that took place during his tenure. There was no need until then to take action.
4. Bush did not interfere with the case. He let the man go to trial and let Fitzgerald get a little recognition.

The outrage is because people don't like Bush anyway and that particular group is not going to like him whether he does or dont do something.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Independent, Texas — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:29:54 GMT

IntheMiddle, Texas (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 12:05 PM)

Thank you for your response. I do not use talking points. I am not affiliated with nor do I support any political party.

1)I agree. However, when such ass-covering has possibly resulted in 3500+ unnecessary deaths plus unknown thousands of injury, I think you can understand my level of concern over this particular ass-covering.

2)It is my understanding that since Mr. Clinton remained in office that he was not convicted. Keep in mind also that that particular Senate was by far a Republican senate. That meant something to me.

3)May be true - the point being that he didn't pardon anyone when those pardons could look like this one does for Mr. Bush. None of those pardons prevented jail time for the offenders. This one does.

4) The case is not yet over. Mr. Libby has not yet filed for appeal. The commutation was in response to a court that denied Mr. Libby's request to remain out of jail pending appeal. Mr. Bush did indeed interfere with this before it was over.

5) I am always amused by the attack on Mr. Fitzgerald who is a republican and was assigned this case by Mr. Ashcroft - certainly a poster boy for the conservative wing. It was very interesting to me, since we are throwing out opinion rather than fact on this one, that the meat of the case was "handled" after Mr. Ashcroft had to leave office. That makes me very curious.

There may be people who have the opinion of Mr. Bush as you say. I am not one of them. I would be absolutely delighted to find that my fear is unmerited that this administration has been so crassly responsible for the deaths and the ongoing distaster that is Iraq. As it is, I am absolutely and completely furious by what I perceive to be the high-jacking of our government and the systematic dismembering of our constitution that I lay at the feet of this administration.

There are in fact people who seem to support this Administration but in very few instances to I find that they can tell me why. There appears to be the opinion that any critcism of the administration is equivalent to being a traitor. I do not understand that thinking at all.

Again, thank you for your response.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Amy B Portland, ME — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:34:48 GMT

"The outrage is because people don't like Bush anyway and that particular group is not going to like him whether he does or dont do something"

Awww, what's not to like about Bush?

Libby pays $250,000 fine

John Doe, DC — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:44:45 GMT

Poor LIBBY who has to pay $250,000 FINE without using his own money ... I think this is tooooo excessive; especially to those people who gave him that money to pay off the fine ...

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Kato in Des Moines — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:42:40 GMT

IntheMiddle Texas: I am afraid you know little of the Constitution or criminal law. Clinton was never convicted of anything by the House of Representatives. The House doesn't even have the power to convict a President of anything. Nor was Clinton convicted of anything in the Senate. The House has the power to "impeach" -- that is to say it has the power to "charge" the President with treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdeameanors. (It's akin to an indictment by a grand jury in a criminal proceeding.) Once impeached, the matter then moves to the Senate for trial. In cases involving the impeachment of a President, the trial is presided over by the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. In Clinton's case the trial in the Senate resulted in an acquital, the Republicans having failed to achieve the two-thirds majority necessary to convict. The vote was largely along party lines. So please stop saying Clinton was convicted. It's just not true and you lose credibility on any point you try to make, by stating something so ridiculously false.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Nick, Port Washington WI — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:31:38 GMT

No president was ever been convicted and removed from office, although had Nixon not resigned in August 1974, he would have been the first. The evidence against him was so overwhelming as to be undeniable.. and he was only going to get about 10 votes out of the 100 Senators, a 90-10 decision, when only 67 is needed for conviction. If Bush were to be impeached and allthe information abiout the Iraq war, intel, the exposing of Vlarie Plame and all the other stuff they've been doing for 6 years, comes out, Conviction will be a certainty, only 16 Republicans would to vote to convict.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Inthemiddle, Texas — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:33:08 GMT

Kato: First of all who are you to judge one's credibility? Everyone understood the just of what I was saying. To keep from insulting you, Ill leave it at that.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

Scott in South Texas — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 20:44:51 GMT

All of us who post here are subject to having our credibility judged, and we understand what people are saying, To keep from insulting anyone, I'll leave it at that.

Libby pays $250,000 fine

IntheMiddle, Texas — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 20:04:36 GMT

Scott: Who asked you AZZHOLE?