Swift Boat, the sequel?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:38:37 GMT

Excellent. HEAR, HEAR, for New York's Bravest!
It's about time the things Gigolo Rudy 'G' did in the wake of 911 were REALLY exposed.
This mean spirited, political bully needs to be exposed for what he truly is; a very little man who couldn't/shouldn't be leader of a boy scout troop, let alone President of The United States.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:38:38 GMT

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Asad — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:38:47 GMT

Well, Sean Hannity called the original Swift Boaters "Great Americans"... let's see what he calls the Firefighters Union.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

ex-marine,vietvet — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:41:49 GMT

the media is distorting the term swiftboating, unfortunately for the good swiftboat crews, the swiftboaters forever gave swiftboting a bad name by using the big lie technique against kerry. the firefighters union is using the TRUTH about rudy, they are not LIES.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:53:02 GMT

And under the leadership of Bloomberg has the situation been fixed? Of course, who knew a bunch of ragheads were going to take out the towers. I've seen a few shows where Rudy was praised for his leadership from the firemen and women of New York, so this is just another attack from another direction.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

I feel so used — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:28:50 GMT

Well I'm just shocked to learn that the video of Kerry’s 1971 testimony was faked.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Ravine Force, Kissimmee, FL — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:29:12 GMT

Thank you, ex-marine, I needed that. Thank you for coming to our defense. We did a job I will always be proud of. Kerry was a victim of the few bad apples that always exist in all ways of life. Having served actively from 65-67 with the Brown Water Navy, I know what swift boaters accomplished, until this bunch of repugnant yellowbacks decided to attack one of their own with false accusations. No serviceman determines what medals or commendations he/she receives. Kerry earned his.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Alan, Martinsville, Indiana — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:47:25 GMT

Out of the woodwork comes another swift boat-style political attack and the victims cry foul. Big deal. Truth is the real loser in these political battles and soon becomes unknowable. Should I choose to side with "ex-marine, vietvet" above and assume who is lying and who isn't? No, crap dredged up from the past didn't sway me against Kerry, nor will it do so with Giuliani. Like Kerry, Giuliani is fully capable of collapsing under his own weight.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Gary Schear, bozeman Montana — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:01:51 GMT

First Read guys-- Same question from the First Thoughts Thread.
Common usage of the "swift boat" metaphor infers
"a strong pejorative description of some kind of attack that the speaker considers unfair--for example, an ad hominem attack or a smear campaign." (Wikipedia)
So are you reporting that he is in fact being lied about by the fire fighters or are you reporting that his position is that he is being lied about? Not trying to be over sensitive here but the press has an obligation to be precise if it is striving to be impartial. The way you guys say things is very important because when repeated again and again the perception becomes the "fact". Ask Karl Rove or BillO.
Giuliani can now point to respected political commentators agreeing that he is being "Swift Boated" or lied about by people with an agenda. How about fact checking their accusations before helping him out?

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Houston — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:03:59 GMT

Giuliani is _not_ being swift boated. Swift boating is when someone uses a pack of demonstrable lies to smear a political enemy. And the accusations against Kerry _were_ all proven to be nothing but lies and slander. As far as I know, the charges against Giuliani made by the firefighter's union are all true.

Unfortunately, the distinction between truth and lies seems to be a mere triviality to contemporary journalists. That would explain why you fail to see any difference between the firefighters attacks on Giuliani's phoney political posturing and the original swift boaters' scurrilous attacks on Kerry's very real military service. The passion of old-time journalists like Edward R. Murrow was for digging out the truth and presenting it to the public. But the truth just seems to be out of style in what passes for modern journalism.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Jackson, Houston — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:09:11 GMT

Why do you guys continue to attempt to discredit those swiftboat guys? They were there with Kerry, not any of you. The liberal press and liberals in general did everything they could to attack those guys but failed. It is what it is. Kerry said and did all of that BS. I was young boy at the time but my father to this day hates Kerry, and he is a die-hard Democrat. He hated Kerry long before that campaign. Kerry lost period. Everytime some liberal loses an election, its always something flaky. Just accept your loss and move on. You never see any Republican on natl tv constantly talking about how their defeat was ......

Swift Boat, the sequel?

ex-marine,vietvet — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:19:03 GMT

ravine force always glad to speak up for the good folks who stand up for what is right, hang in there bro.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:27:55 GMT

I've been reading about a guy named Brian Sullivan, a former special agent with the FAA, he wrote a letter to John Kerry telling him how easy it would be to commit a hijacking out of Boston's Logan airport. He wrote back that he was sending the information to some agency and asked that the inspector general brief his staff when the findings came out. Just a little too late. Another person came forward and asked Kerry to look into it and he felt the senator just blew him off. Also, on CNN Crossfire on November 12 1997, he stated for the world to hear that Bill Clinton did not need UN approval to attack Iraq if he wanted to. He kind of changed his tune when President Bush decided to follow his advice in 2003. Google is a wonderful thing.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Gary Schear, bozeman Montana — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:52:43 GMT

Jackson, Houston--They discredited themselves. They were not on Kerry's boat. His crew was with him. Ask them, Ask the pentagon. Go here:
http://www.factcheck.org/republican-funded_group_attacks_kerrys_war_record.html
Keep repeating the lie, Jackson.
War is peace,
Freedom is slavery,
Ignorance is strength

Swift Boat, the sequel?

FL — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:01:35 GMT

"Google is a wonderful thing."

But Jerry..... you have to know how to tell FACT from FICTION.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Glen Shipley, Arp, Texas — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:36:59 GMT

Rudy was complicit in 911. There was a lot more gold than the $322 million, thats just what they didn't get out before they pulled the building. Who got the rest? Rudy is toast, he'll never get the nomination. Even the sheeple aren't that stupid. Are they?

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Dorothy, Manhattan, New York — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:51:53 GMT

What's wrong with Giuliani? How is he any different from the other candidates? All the hopefuls spin and interpret their actions to make them look better. Some are distorded while others are embellished. They are running for the most important job of the world. Either you like them or you don't. I personally am a New Yorker and an independent. I am all for Giuliani!!

Swift Boat, the sequel?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:14:58 GMT

To, jerry/corpus christi texas;
Here's a clue jerry.....you're from Texas, you know NOTHING about New York.
Likewise, you sure as hell don't know anything about what happened here on 911, or during its' aftermath.
You are another one of those people to whom 911 was/is nothing more than television entertainment. You watched it while you were sitting on your fat comfortable ass in front of a TV with a beer in your hand.
Those of us who reside and work in and around The New York area LIVED through that day and dealt with the gut wrenching pain both during and after the event.
So here's another little hint for ya'....SHUT IT! Don't speak of things that you know NOTHING about.
Gigolo Rudy 'G' has tried to use the horrific events of 911 and his status as New York's Mayor when it happened as a catapalt to The GOP nomination in 2008.
There are a lot of us here who think that is DESPICABLE!

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Houston — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:23:57 GMT

Gary Schear, thanks for posting a link to the facts debunking the sleazy lies told by the Swifties. I was going to do something of the sort myself, but you saved me the trouble of rehashing the wretched afffair. Too bad so few people in the news media bothered to do any similar fact checking.

The complaints of the firefighters' union may or may not be overstated, but they are in no way similar to the blatant falsehoods about Kerry that were puked up by the Swift Liars.

BTW: I was never a big fan of Kerry's, but it's thoroughly disgusting to see anyone get slimed like Kerry was by the bottom-feeding minions of "The Decider."

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Houston — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:27:53 GMT

Dorothy [[What's wrong with Giuliani? ]]

Simple: he wants to continue Bush's disastrous Iraq war and he wants to continue Bush's policy of violating the civil liberties of American citizens with 9/11 as the all-purpose excuse for any outrageous abuse of power a monarchical executive cares to perpetrate. Any more questions?

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Steven in Wisconsin — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:05:01 GMT

Because GOP candidates & the GOP in particular are desperate to hold on to the power they now possess, look for GOP political operatives to get right down into the sewer and serve that up to the public in order to get their people reelected. Also, look for conglomerates & the super wealthy to dig deep into their slush-funds to fund the GOP whom they perceive as being their primary benefactors regarding huge tax cuts they've received at the expense of the poor and middle class. They will do whatever is necessary to maintain their huge increase in income visa-vee their tax cuts to the wealthy.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

New Independent — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:25:44 GMT

Jerry - You show your ignorance by calling them a bunch of "ragheads". You put down an entire group of people who dress a certain way because of their religion. These people were fanatics, and you don't help matters by being derogatory against a whole group of people. I guess you also agreed with the interrment of the Japanese American citizens during World War II?

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Gene,Mead,Wash — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:02:04 GMT

Ravine force- Many thanks for your service to our country. It's a shame that the majority of the people in this country do not know what you guys had to go through over there. Drawing fire on yourselves in a very harsh environment, to expose the enemy. The life expectancy for you guys being measured in hours, not days of weeks. I had a very close friend who has since passed that was with you guys over there. I have nothing but admiration for all of you who were there, including Kerry even though I didn't agree with some of his political stands. Hang in there, my man, and many, many thanks again.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

HMT — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:46:36 GMT

great interview by the firefighter on Hardball---gee Guilliani not a hero of 9/11?More like a liar---fits right in with the whitehouse.If he runs against Hillary he has his work cut out for him.Wonder where the gold went to that he was so fanatic about the firefighters retrieving and the hell with the bodies.That is a hero?

Swift Boat, the sequel?

nuanced — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:12:39 GMT

A truth squad is not a swift boat

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Wayne, M'town TN — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:25:27 GMT

"Jackson, Houston--They discredited themselves. They were not on Kerry's boat. His crew was with him"
As if his was the only boat in the region.
Kerry got a boo boo and wanted a medal.
Not that his chasing the kid with the launcher wasn't cool, but he beached his craft at an angle that prevented his main armament from coming to bear on any threats from the shore. His shooting the kid was self preservation at best.
If you lose a man overboard you are pretty much obligated to pick him up.

Not all of Kerry's crew back up some of his claims, and none would comment much on his claim about spending Christmas in Cambodia. Besides which he had claimed Nixon was president at the time, which he wasn't.
Kerry even spoke up on behalf of Lt Calley, they say thats one reason Calley got off so light.

The Vietnamese Communists sent the VVAW a letter thanking them for their contribution to the Communist Victory.
Also like Micah Wright a number of the most vocal VVAW members lied about their military service while defaming those who had served with honor.
Kerry was a scumbag regardless of any medals, the Democrats might as well have nominated John Wayne Gacy.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Amy B Portland, M?E — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 00:29:36 GMT

'Kerry was a scumbag regardless of any medals, the Democrats might as well have nominated John Wayne Gacy.'

Relative of yours, Wayne?

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Gary Schear, Bozeman, MT — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 00:54:09 GMT

Wayne, M'town TN--I know this is just p*ssing in the wind but this is an excerpt for the Factcheck.org check of facts in the SBVFT attacks on Kerry.

"Another major discrepancy raises a question of how close Kerry's accusers actually were to the rescue of Rassmann. Tour of Duty describes Rassmann's rescue (and the sniper fire) as happening "several hundred yards back" from where the crippled PCF-3 was lying, not "a few yards away," the distance from which the anti-Kerry veterans claim to have witnessed the incident."

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Desmond — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 02:08:04 GMT

My cousin died in Vietnam. 6:25 post, want to call me a liar too?Ravine Force, fight on for the truth.I have my duct tape and my bottles of water but I refuse to to live in fear.Our President stood on a pile of rubble and promised me and my fellow citizens he would find bin Laden al Zwahiri and Mullah Omar.And he also called me "unpatriotic." Guess he knows little about me, his fellow citizen.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Wayne, M'town TN — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:27:17 GMT

"My cousin died in Vietnam. "
So did mine, and I never appreciated Kerry defaming his memory or the memory of those others on the wall including your cousin.
I had a run in with the VVAW in 69, they were punks and folded faster than Superman on laundry day.

Kerry sunk his own credibility with his own statements after his return.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Wayne, M'town TN — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:55:29 GMT

"Wayne, M'town TN--I know this is just p*ssing in the wind but this is an excerpt for the Factcheck.org check of facts in the SBVFT attacks on Kerry"

Its pissing in the wind because I never heard of the swiftboat veterans before I formed my opinion or Kerry,I saw the scum bag in action here at home when he was defaming out troops and spouting the defeatist claptrap the commies had programed him to say.
I listened and knew he was a liar, others listened and sucked it down without a grain of salt.

Kerry's own mouth convicted him, not what others said.
His rants against or troops and their commanders, and his fawning admiration of the commies are public record.
Ravine seems so dead set on giving the impression that Kerry is beyond reproach, if so lets hear about the atrocities Ravine and Kerry committed while rampaging through the countryside like "Genghis Khan" as Kerry put it.
"Having served actively from 65-67 with the Brown Water Navy, I know what swift boaters accomplished, until this bunch of repugnant yellowbacks decided to attack one of their own with false accusations. No serviceman determines what medals or commendations he/she receives. Kerry earned his.
Ravine Force, Kissimmee, FL
"
Lets hear you call your fellow service members "Yellow Backs" one more time Ravine.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

jane doe — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:02:34 GMT

This does not surprise me for a man that has a business partner that is in bed with the mob and cheated on his wife and disrespected his family so blatantly. This shows you his decision making ability, WOW he is dangerous.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

jane doe — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:04:19 GMT

It was proven that the Swift Boat Veterans were liars!!! THis is America and we are free to speak our minds. Where were Bush, Cheney and even that jerk Boehner of Ohio when Vietnam was going on, hiding behind their "momma's dresses!"

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Henry Cusano,Johnsonville, Ny — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:17:06 GMT

Even if this is not true the fact remains to my knowledge I have not seen nor heard anything of what Rudy has done to fight terrorism.He is a blank slate in terms of legislation or planning.All I've seen him do is make millions on the lecture circuit exploiting the dead of 9/11 for his own benifit and desire to add president to his ego driven credentials.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Sasha D, Miami OH — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:55:08 GMT

Kind of like Billiary making money off of their 8 crap years in office. The Don't Worry Be Happy Presidency did nothing for national security, and we see where that got us. Less bjs in the office, and more attention to terror threats would have been nice thing. Now BC is making $500000 a speech. Good money, for a jerk.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Wayne, M'town TN — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:49:58 GMT

"It was proven that the Swift Boat Veterans were liars!!! THis is America and we are free to speak our minds. Where were Bush, Cheney and even that jerk Boehner of Ohio when Vietnam was going on, hiding behind their "momma's dresses!"
jane doe
"
Did you vote for clinton if so ,have you ever read of how Clinton dodged the draft?

Kerry was and is a Scumbag regardless.
When Kerry served it was Lyndon Johnson's War not Nixon's War, Johnson lied and people died I guess.

I still don't see why ravine would call the swiftboat Vets "Yellowbacks" they never ran from a fight.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Wayne, M'town TN — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:13:25 GMT

Something just occurred to me.
What is an "Ex-Marine"?
I've never heard any Marine describe themself as an "ex-Marine", no matter how long ago they served.

Also just what is or was "Ravine Force"? I've heard of the "Riverine Force" but nowhere can I find any mention of ravine Force.

Just Asking.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

Ed Szewczyk, Granite City, Illinois — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:28:44 GMT

The firefighters union is the one being "Swift Boated" by the mainstream media, not Mr. Giuliani. The "Swift Boat Veterans for..Truth?" brazenly lied about Senator Kerry's war record and the mainstream media not only failed to call them on their lies, but actually helped publicize and magnify them. That's what made their attacks so reprehensible. The firefighters, on the other hand, are conveying facts and then giving their interpretation and views based on those facts. That's a difference much wider than the Bay Hap River.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

M. Thomas Ilg — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 07:15:59 GMT

You all write about how Kerry was Swift Boated. Well the real truth is how much time did the scumbag spend in the Navy. You all write of the brief time he spent in Vietnam. The scumbag served aboard The Griddley longer than that. What happened there nothing? John Kerry could not come to grip with military service and speak the truth of why he left the service early. Just another rich punk kid with a chip on his hunched over shoulders. Could not even stand tall. He is and will always be a loser.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

William H. Thompson, Walnut Creek, CA — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 08:41:21 GMT

After all this time, the Swift Boat battle rages on. It's been some time since a post by others here, but the most recent bout between Kerry and T. Boone Pickens has resurrected some new dust. I was an officer in the United States Navy and I served in the same area of Vietnam. You might like to read my thoughts about Kerry - written in August of 2004 - before he lost the election. Get ready for a detailed treatice about his leadership and what I think might well have happened. It's all here at http://www.thomgrp.com/Kerry/Kerry.htm.

Swift Boat, the sequel?

William H. Thompson, Walnut Creek, CA — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 08:45:36 GMT