http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx From Mark Murray, Huma Zaidi, Lauren Appelbaum, and Carrie DannPresident Bush’s Iraq speech, in which he’s expected to call for an increase in US troops to Baghdad, is now officially set for Wednesday at 9:00 pm ET. Bush has added two new events toen-USCommunityServer 2.0 (Build: 60608.1)http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28684Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:36:05 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28684Terry, Disbaled Vet, Des Moines, IAObviously King George will only comply to one thing IMPEACHMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28687Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:51:18 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28687Brian, Cedar Hill, TXApparently nobody has put the pieces together. Conspiracy theory or not, what has Bush done in the past when he was facing strong opposition and negative press? He and his band have always orchestrated a major threat or two. The odor mystery in New York may or may not be part of his symphony this time, but I would suspect some major threat to be announced shortly before or after his address Wednesday night. The players are already reminding us of our impending doom and getting us jumpy, with the very cleverly timed "surprise" raid in Somalie and the increased gunbattles and street fighting in Baghdad. It's all just a crescendoed repeat chorus to awaken his audience in this long-winded, grueling dirge Bush has created.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28688Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:57:03 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28688Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCWhat free-thinking person would give any credence to anything Ted Kennedy has to say regarding the war on terror? The same Ted Kennedy who was giving info to the KGB on Reagan Administration cold war policy . Can anyone explain to me why Sen. Chappaquidick isn't in prison? Bush hasn't even given his speech yet, but already the usual suspects are trotting out to bash his plan before it'e even announced. This ain't no way to win a war. How can we expect to prevail against an unrelenting enemy when most of us are far more willing to attack our president than we are the terrorists themselves? Kennedy and his ilk sicken me. Cut and run? Where should our troops withdraw to? Because trust me, wherever it is the terrorists will follow. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28691Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:09:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28691Sharon Hackney, Phoenix, ArizonaIt is my hope that all americans stop waiting for someone else to stop Bush and this war and that after his speech on Wednesday that we all stand up and say enough is enough and we take to the streets to show Bush as well as all those we elected last November that we are not going to allow 20,000 more lives to be risked for a war that we can not win. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28692Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:19:00 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28692Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCHey Sharon, why don't we all take to the streets to show Bin-Laden and all Islamo-facists that we are united as a nation and there plan to divide and conquer is doomed to failure. Stop Bush from what? Do you have a better plan? A war we cannot win? The only thing that will stop us from winning this war is partisan politics and in-fighting and the terrorists knew that from day one. They counted on it. You are playing right into their hands. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28693Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:21:03 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28693Lynette, NYCDarren stop worrying about the accidental drowning of one innocent girl one hyndred years ago and worry about the 20,000 more American lives that will be put in jeopardy after your president sends them off to die for no reason whatsoever. I too think the timing of the Somali attacks is eerily planned, such a coincedence that we of course will never know. And I too am waiting for the next disruptionof our lives at airports or in subways to prove " THEY" are still out there and we have to get them. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28696Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:24:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28696Seattle SueBrian, Cedar Hill-I agree with you. I am truly sorry to feel this way, but we have had so much spin from Bush that I can not believe anything he says. I hope the attack in Somalia needed and not a stunt to pull the headlines away from Iraq.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28698Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:24:36 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28698Robert Catalano, Salem, ORDarren, you sound like Karl Rove writes everything you say. Ted Kennedy is not in prison because he has not been sentenced to such by a jury of his peers; only in the court of conservative opinion is he considered a criminal. When are you people going to debate the issues instead of bringing out the same old tired rhetoric demonizing Hilary Clinton, Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton? It's the SOS. By the way, since you are such a patriotic war hawk, let me ask you this, have you ever served in the military? Not someone in your family: you? Do you know what it's like to see death somewhere except on your TV? I am a free-thinking person and respect everyone else's right to think as they wish. However, free-thinking people say things in their own words, usually, instead of the sound bites of others. I would be willing to read what you say when it is articulated by YOU.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28700Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:25:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28700Big Red One, Tularosa NMThe only subject Ted K is an expert in is alcohol, womaninizing and leaving a lady to die in a pond after drunkenly driving her to her death off a bridge. And all his hot air- from a man whose own daddy bought a Senatorial seat in order to keep him out of the Vietnam draft. Nam vets- rise up and reject this immoral, criminal, protected by the family fortune "liberal lion".http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28702Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:30:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28702Jeffrey Powlaski, Peoria, ILHey- dumpster diving in the 2008 race- i see the NY enabler, Rev al sharpton, is thinking off running. But, if he does, will he lose his national tax empt status as "key african american enabler" and title as " co chair of the secret effort to keep miniorities enslaved to the wallet of big brother". The guy has no responsibility nor any creds to run for Pres, just like the other enabler, Reverend (and an adulterer) Jesse Jackson has no biz in Pres politics. Democrats- UNITE for commom sense and keep the enablers, the limp, the weak, the immoral, the STUPID, out of the DNC primaries!!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28704Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:34:17 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28704WheyOut, Wheaton MDReminds of the tail wagging the dog during Bill C's bombing of African stuff during the monica escapades. gosh, one has to love the awesome power of the U.S. Presidency!! Gimme some of the boom boom.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28705Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:34:28 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28705Florida FoxI wonder if this message board is accessable in foreign countries. Could be an explanation for the cut and run politics and hate content when this is the time for our country to be strong and stand against our enemies. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28708Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:44:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28708AsadDarren, are you and Rush Limbaugh reading from the same daily "talking-points" memo? Or do you listen to his show first and then post on this blog?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28712Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:48:23 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28712Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCLynette, I am far more concerned with Sen. Kennedy's treason than the accidental drowing of one girl. He jeopardized the lives of ALL Americans by giving sensitive info to the KGB. He and the rest of the cut and run crowd are doing the same now. By the way, would you be more concerned about that one girl if it were your daughter? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28713Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:52:36 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28713AsadFlorida Fox, if our enemies are really contributing to this blog, they would be happy that Bush is sending more Americans to an Iraqi civil war rather than focusing on fighting terorism world wide. They love the stay-the-course "strategy".http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28715Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:02:36 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28715Lee in CAI know, neocons! Let's assassinate Ted Kennedy's character! Character assisination - is there any situation whre it doesn't help a party with nothing to offer but treachery, deceit, lies and treason? Ignore the fact that a retarded monkey has made fools of the entire country, committed treason, hideously ignored his oath of office and is dragging the US into a pit - attack Ted Kennedy! But seriously, BushCo baffoons - couldn't you stop hating America, for just a little while? Long enough for people who care about her to make her treasury strong and her Constitution vibrant? What sport is there in robbing a wheezy treasury or continued raping of such a weak and defenseless Constitution? You trot out Osama Bin Laden to demonize Kennedy, or when you're really sick and perverse, Max Cleland, but you don't really seem to notice we're not even looking for him any more. He sure is useful, isn't he? To you America haters, anyway. OK - time to get back to blaming war criminal administration on Ted Kennedy. Does the hypocracy ever rise up in the back of your throats like sour puke, or have you learned to enjoy the taste? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28716Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:02:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28716ex-marine and viet vetdarrin i see your trotting out the swift boat tactics of lie lie lie darrin there are marine corps recruiters waiting to sign you up tough guy and you can go take care of all the boogie men in the world.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28717Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:03:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28717Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCRobert, I don't have to demonize Hillary, Bill, or Ted. They do well enough on their own. Aren't you the least bit concerned about a US senator giving an enemy intelligence agency our cold war plans? Are you such a die-hard paritsan that nothing DEMS do are of any consequence to you, while everything the GOP does is automatically wrong? My point mis this: if he was doing it then, might he be doing it now? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28719Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:05:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28719J, Minneapolis, MN"this is the time for our country to be strong and stand against our enemies" Precisely. This is exactly why we must unite and finally curtail the ugly excesses of the Bush administration.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28723Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:06:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28723DesmondI have mentioned several times , to be careful about the spin about Somalia. All may not be what it seems. The people of Somalia were invaded by Ethiopia, with the tactical help of the U. S. National guard troops from Guam are there training Ethiopians in tactical warfare. Those two countries are not friends to say the least. Don't let fear stop you from finding out the truth.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28725Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:07:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28725Lynette, NYCDarren why are not more concerned about the issue at hand, which is the lies told to us by our elected President in order to declare a war that should never have never been started? I firmly believe that all American Lives are in far more danger thanks to what he has done and said. I am also concerned that my teenage son will be drafted in a few years because of this unnecessary war. President Bush is looking at this thing as something that should continue for the long haul. So although I am sorry for the girls family in Chappaquidik and I apologize for my insensitivity to them, I am also very sorry for every son and daughter that has died in Iraq for what will amount to nothing. I am also very sorry for all the future sons and daughters of this country who will do the same. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28727Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:09:00 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28727Tony, Fort Myers, FLRobert, Thank you for your kind post on the other blog stating that you recognize the passion that I have. It is unfortunate that we can't disagree on this blog without bashing each other and saying that one is BS-ing because they have a different opinion. I do not agree with Ted Kennedy's political views and believe that he (along with the hardened Politicians from every vantage point) say what it takes to better their position and/or party, that is why I would not take what he says as fact. My opinion as this is a political opinion blog is that we are fighting for a just cause because we are trying to help people secure the human rights they deserve and we can't deny our troops the support (including additional money if needed) they need to do their job. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28730Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:11:04 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28730Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCKarl, Rush and I had lunch yesterday, where we discussed in depth what I would post here today. I am blindly led by the right and can't think for myself. I cannot look at the crystal clear evidence that is staring me in the face and come to my own conclussions. May the Clinton's and Kennedy's guide us all safely to security with their profound wisdom, honesty and inegrity. Thank God they know how to aside all partisan leanings and do what is best for our country rather than looking out fot party first. Their non-plan for success in the war on terror is obviously far superior to anything Karl, Rush and King George can come up with. May their inaction and rhetoric rule the day!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28734Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:15:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28734DorothyMy dad used to say politicians should lay off Kennedy and Chappaquiddick. He'd say it's all water under the bridge...http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28739Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:22:21 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28739Darren Poipe, Myrtle Beach, SCLynette, evidence of Kennedy's treason is there for anyone to examine. If he were willing to give US secrets to our cold war enemy for political gain in the 80's, why wouldn't he do it now? Show me hard evidence that BUsh lied to lead us into an unneccesary war and I will take a seriuos look at it. The problem is there is none. If the war is uneccesary why don't the DEMS vote to end funding TODAY and let's bring the troops home. If put to a vote today most of them would vote to continue the war because while it is politically popular to condemn the war that MOST OF THEM HAVE VOTED FOR ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION, they know in reality that it must be fought. They are leading you by the nose down the road to destruction.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28740Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:27:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28740!"My point mis this: if he was doing it then, might he be doing it now? " You mean Bush doing tequilla shooters and sniffing Peruvian Blue Flake off a Mexican prostitute's butt? Your hypocracy could make a maggot gag. You haven't got a point that's why you character assasinate people who aren't even responsible. How many of you weak-minded morons at the O'Reilly factor has he got posting to this blog?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28742Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:30:35 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28742Cisco,Detroit,MiBush is dilusional......... He is going to have his way no matter what. Kinda like a spoiled kid in a candy store. The american people seem to have escaped his mind and he is running the show any way he wants........http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28744Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:32:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28744Robert Catalano, Salem, ORTony, it is ok to disagree and bash. Mark Twain did it and so did George Bernard Shaw; two of the gretest writers of English literature. What I have a problem with is so much of the bashing is mean-spirited and it sounds like someobody else talking through the mouths of the writers; both left and right included. Democracy can only survive if we have free-thinking people who can do just that. I was also not defending Ted Kennedy but I also do not want to demonize him either. Darren, if there was actual proof Ted Kennedy betrayed the USA he would have been charged. Someone saying its so is a long way from legal conviction. In the spirit of Mark Twain just let me say, "The only difference between a politician and a prostitute is the prostitute will actually give you what they promise in return for the money you give them."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28745Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:35:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28745Lee in CAWell, Tony - some posters have a predilection towards...prevaricating, without the class to cop to it when caught, but they're mostly just punks, I'd say. You know - the sort that likes to instigate a fight they don't have the guts to get into. Some call it "passion," I call it "lying."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28746Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:35:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28746Darren Pope, Mrytle Beach, SCNo, Dorothy, it's the tragic, horrible death of an innocent young girl and the excusing of her killer by powerful politicians protecting one of their own. It is still a legitimate issue here because I do not trust my family's future to men such as this in such troubled times.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28750Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:51:37 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28750Amy B Portland, MEDarren, Do you feel as badly for the young man Laura Bush killed in a traffic accident back in Texas?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28753Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:56:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28753Phil Viet Vet, Pearblossom, CADarren; You never answered Roberts question. I suspect the reason you didn't is because you are one of those super patriotic arm chair heroes who are willing to send others including their sons and daughters in harms way but have never committed yourself to do the same. Yes, I am one of those "cut and run" cowardly traitors who actually volunteered for and served in harms way for another unnecessary war, Vietnam, but think that America should not be squandering our blood and treasure in Iraq for the ego of one man. Doom and chaos if we leave Iraq now? Domino theory warmed over. I'm constantly amazed at how little faith the Neo cons and warmongers have in the strength of America. We will survive this debacle in Iraq. The only question is how many of our citizens will have to die before wake up and end it.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28755Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:57:32 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28755Florida FoxWhy do jerks like Kennedy keep getting elected. Everyone knows what he is. I believe that he brings home the earmarks and money talks. He should have gotten the boot long ago. Wake up America!!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28756Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:57:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28756Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCLee in CA: America haters? I happen to love this country. It seems to me that is the liberal left who are constantly talking about changing America. It is the left who are always talking about what's wrong with America. Assassinate Kennedy's character? He has done more on his own than I could ever do. How can anyone trust their future to such a man, if you chose to call him that. If the left would stop for just one minute and take a look at reality instead of placing their agenda ahead of all else America would be all the better for it. Fat chance. Party first. Political power above all else. Full speed ahead and damn the consequences. If this madness doesn't stop American will lie in ruins at our feet. The GOP better pay heed to this warning as well. Some of us owe no allegiance to a party, but to our great country. This is my concern. United we stand folks, it is only from the inside that we can be defeated. You can bet Bin-Laden and his followers know it, and somewhere today the are dancing with glee at how close we are.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28758Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:58:33 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28758Seattle SueIs it just me or do some of these posts sound like they are just shills for GWB? I really don't think they are as concered for the Iraqui people as they are concered for GWB. They seem to think going back to issues that happened 20,30,40 years ago will make Bush look better. Their next step will be to tell you that if you don't agree with everything Bush does and says, that you are unpatortic, un-American, don't support the troops and maybe you are just insane and that you should leave our country as quick as you can. I've heard all this rhectoric before, that's the only defense they have.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28759Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:01:07 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28759Lynette, NYCI usaully try to not get into these arguements with people of opposite opinions. You are entitled to yours as I am to mine. Since public opinion polls show you to be in the minority, I will leave it at that........http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28760Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:01:24 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28760DesmondDarren Pope, I don't trust my kids with the likes of Mark Foley, and all the Republicans who protected him.But that situation has nothing to do with the President's speech. Topic on hand bro.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28761Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:01:33 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28761Flaming Liberal, Sun City, AZDarren, If you want to bring up the past, how about Georgie's drunk driving conviction or saintly Laura, drunk as a skunk killing her friend in a car crash or Dick (6 deferment) Cheney outing a CIA agent in violation of at least 2 Federal statutes. The real question, looking at Iraq is how many Iraqis fought in our civil war. I would say as many Vietnamese. This war is a sh*thole and we are not getting out of it for at least 5 years now matter what Pinochio George says. He's a pathological liar out of touch with reality.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28762Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:03:32 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28762mikeeg,abdn,wadarrin i dont belive any of your lies which covers most everything you say. there are also army recruiters waiting to sign you up. go for it tough guy.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28764Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:06:49 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28764Bob WittFor a fabricated war, we have killed 3000 of our own, wounded and maimed scores of others and continue to spend more than $2-BILLION EACH WEEK! Our losses and those of others continue to escalate and Iraq is in worse shape now than before our war. PLEASE Congress don't commit to more lives and more dollars. Just think of the +$2-billion dollars in pork you could send home to U.S. Taxpayers if you stopped the cheney/bush disaster.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28768Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:17:43 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28768Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCMore name calling and personal attacks with no evidence to back it up. The favorite tool of the left when their empty arguments are seen for what they truly are. Excusing every lie and crime from their own party leaders while pointing accusing fingers at the other. This isn't about democrat/republican as much as many of you would like it to be. It's about America. While I do not believe that "George Bush willfully lied to drag us into an unneccesary war to avenge his father", I will stipulate that he is probably one of the worst presidents this country has ever seen, but right now he's all we've got. Right now we need to stand together to fight a common a enemy that can only defeat us by dividing us, and they seem to be doing a bang-up job of pulling it off. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28769Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:19:52 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28769Dave Miller, Miamisburg, OHThank goodness for the Democratically controlled House and Senate. Finally, we will have some oversight and challenge to the President's continued wreckless policies in Iraq. Sounds like he's marching full speed ahead with his "stay the course" logic that he and his administration held to before the November 2006 elections. Mr. Bush's incessant follies in foreign policy are becoming tiresome. I, as a concerned voter, have pretty much lost interest. I feel certain that whatever "new" policy this administration brings forth regarding Iraq will be a huge failure. I have written both my Senators and my Congressman about my disgust. I don't know what else I can do. When are we finally going to own up to our mistake; our failed policy; and start withdrawing troops. To the rest of the world, we appear not only incompetent, but also stubborn and vain. What a shame.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28771Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:27:37 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28771Diz, kySomeone correct me if i'm wrong, but seem's 2 me I recollect Reagon putting troop's n Lebanon, ( only 2 Cut & Run after our 230 Marines were killed). Reagon was the 1 that covertly financed Osama in Afghanistan 2 fight the russian's. Reagon was the 1 that covertly financed the contra rebel's thru illegal arm's sale's 2 the World's largest financer's of Terror ( IRAN). Who know's what those decision's have 2 do with our current situation, but it seem's as tho the judgement of this particular president did Not include Long Term Implication's 4 American security. I wood care 2 bet that Not 1 single American wasn't behind GWB when we went into Afghanistan after 911 2 oust the Taliban & supposedly get the one's Responsible 4 that Horrible attack. Even most people of the World was 4 that. However, GWB used that 2 further his agenda of Payback 2 Saddam. He ruined the Texas ranger's as owner( trading sammy sosa), he cost American taxpayer's 11 Billion in the saving's & loan bailout in Colarado & who know's what else he ruined thru his Boozing & druggy day's. Why the American Public thought this person was Presidential Material, is beyond me ( Because now he has a Direct line 2 God- along with Pat Robertson). Over 50 million people knew this back n 2000 & again in 2004. What makes some of you think he know's what he's doing, when his past day's are filled with Destruction is beyond me. Our Treasury has been looted, Our Constitution Raped, Our beloved soldier's sent 2 die 4 What ( Oil is my Opinion, along with payback). Again, i'll say Thankfully America woke up from the Kool-Aid induced coma just in time 2 Prevent any Further destruction. Thank You American Voter's.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28772Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:29:12 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28772Brandon Makoroff, Los Angeles, Calif.Darren, all you can talk about is OLD OLD OLD news. You stated in one of your blogs, that Kennedy was voted into office so he could stay out of the Vietnam War. Well what about Mr. Bush, he was brought into the National Guard by his father and then served his time doing political service in Florida. Also, this war was supposed to be about WMD and how Iraq was involved with Al-Quiada. These have both been proven to be lies. Bush has stated within the last year that this war is about keeping the Oil away from Al-Quida. Instead he can give it to his OIL buddies. I am again going to ask you like Robert from Oregon did, Where and when have you served in the military. I like a lot of other military men and women have served my time in HELL (VIETMAN). Also after the WTC Bush stated that he was going to get Osama dead or alive, but it seems that he has forgotten that statement and is now not even looking for him. Bush has done nothing but lie to us and now the chickens are coming home to roost. Before you state that I am a Libiral, let me tell you that I am Independent and think for myself unlike you who must listen to both Rush Limbaugh and O'Riely. Please start to think for yourself and do not just be lead around by the nose. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28775Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:30:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28775Lee in CADarren - then stop lying and picking 40 yo fights. Say something original that isn't the same lock-step idiocy Flush spews EVERY SINGLE DAY. If you seriously think Ted Kennedy is at the root of our problems then you're just a mindless tool of the new fascist party and not worth serious consideration. Go leave a limb in Iraq and then come back here.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28776Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:31:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28776Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCThe answer to Robert's question is this: At 18 I attemted to enlist in the military and was denied because of a medical condition, athsma to be specific, and now I am beyond the age limit, if it were at all possible you can bet your ass I'd be the first in line. As it is, I have in the past been a volunteer fireman, and on another note have volunteered time working with troubled and drug addicted teenagers so I could in some small way give back to my community. But I ask, since when is military service a requirment before you are afforded the right to free speech or before you can be considered a patriot? Did you serve? If so, thank you for your sacrifice. If you can point out any lie in anything I have posted, step up and show me. The topic on hand is the president's speech, and seeing that Kennedy is giving the rebuttal he is open to crticism as well. I would think the DEMS could find someone with a little better character to be their standard bearer. Hell, if I were a democrat I would demand it. As for Mark Foley, I wouldn't trust him with my kids either, but it seems I remember he was run out of congress on a rail. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28777Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:31:41 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28777Kal, NJWhat do you consider winning a war? Sure we could kill everyone in sight and win the battle, but we already have lost the war and its political goals (which is why we fought the war). The US has lost its standings, influence and is less secured then ever. No wonder Hussain smiled on the gallows, instead of Iraq becoming a democracy, we are becoming a dictatorship.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28780Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:33:59 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28780Kal, NJMcCain is right. Let's send in 100,000 troops. Overwhelming force. Get this war over and done with. 30,000 troops is a drop in the bucket. Also, MSNBC people, why don't you investigate why the White House made strategic decisions in the war based on politics? This is by their own admission last Sunday.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28783Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:36:33 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28783Owen Vander, Evansville, INHow many American Troop deaths hang on GWB's head?? 3000+ and counting....how many innocent Iraqi's? (Yes there are innocent Iraqi's, not all of them are terrorists) So the slaughter continues...where is bin laden?? Wasn't he and his criminal organization responsible for 9/11? Come on Darren, no character assasination will change the mess Bush and Co. have gotten us into. Blame Clinton(s), Ted Kennedy, Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, LJB, Ike, et al and any others you wish. The fact remains this quaqmire occured on Dubya's watch, the buck rests there. The argument 'so and so voted for the war too' is weak and childish, like a 5 year old, the bushies point at Dems and Repubs who voted for the war : "Well, he did it too! Don't just blame the Pres"...This tragic situation happened because of his decisions. No amount of deflecting and finger pointing at others can change that fact. So, Darren, spin away, deflect attention from where the problem began, and who is responsible. It will not change the fact our 'leader' and his crew screwed up, he won't admit it, and he is going to cost us more precious American lives. You can spread paranoia by crying wolf and pointing out the boogey men spreading hysteria. I lived through the Cold War where 'we could all be nuked at any time'. I feel GWB and his crew have made our country less safe because of the 'War on Terror', they tied our military up in an unnecessary war and can not now deal with the real treats to our land. I may just be a dumb old Independant, but N. Korea and Iran possessing NUCLEAR bombs appears a whole lot more threatening than a relatively small number of Islamic terrorists attacking us. If after 9/11 Bush and Co. moved quickly to secure our borders and tightened up our security at home, then maybe the 'terrorist threat on our shores' arguement would have held more sway. 3 million+ illegal aliens cross our borders annuallly and our prez has benn talking about allowing them to remain here? It is apparent he sees the terrorist threat as less than advertised or he would have secured our borders and kicked the 'threats' out of our country. So Darren, you can continue spout your fear and hate to real or imagined terrorist threats, I'll keep my eye on the big threats-real threats rogue nations who could really hurt us badly. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28790Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:42:26 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28790Lee in CA"While I do not believe that "George Bush willfully lied to drag us into an unneccesary war to avenge his father", I will stipulate that he is probably one of the worst presidents this country has ever seen, but right now he's all we've got." ....They're replaceable. Sticking with this fool is like getting right back into a car with a drunk driver, no matter how many collisions you survive.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28793Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:43:39 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28793ex-marine and viet vet,americadarreen your claim that all we have is bush is just pathetic. what we have is a constitution that enumerates our rights and freedoms. the costitution is under seige from you neocons and rove and bush and cheney to take away our rights and freedoms under the guise of making us safer giving up freedom or our rights will only enslave america which in reality is what you want. so when are you going to enlist in the marine corps and go fight the big bad boogie man?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28797Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:46:37 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28797Flaming Liberal, Sun City, AZDarren, I like your commnet on uniting against a common enemy, which reminds me of an old comic strip I read named Pogo which had the famous qoute "We have met the enemy and he is us." Just because this James Buchanan wannabe wants to send more troops, some to their deaths, so we can look good is a waste. George has no feeling for these troops no matter how many photo ops he is in. They are just players in a video game to him. We must stand up and say no more. WE have spent a half a trillion dollars over 3,000 American lives, over 25,000 wounded (George has been cutting VA benefits since the war started, look it up) and who knows how many Iraqis casulties because Rummie didn't want to tell us or he didn't know. It's their country, their civil war and their responsibility. Let them have it. What are we going to do if a theocratic fundemantalist Islamic government is democratically elected? Kinds of defeats the purppose of this whole thing now, doesn't it?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28799Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:47:40 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28799Lee in CA"Right now we need to stand together to fight a common a enemy that can only defeat us by dividing us, and they seem to be doing a bang-up job of pulling it off." So is President Nero just Al-Quida's flunky when he says divisive crap like voting for democrats is supporting terrorism? Who's doing the dividing? The right wing. America haters. Those who wish to see us all reduced to poverty while the rich use us for lawn furniture. George Bush has never uttered a single word to unite this country, but he's said plenty to divide it, so by your reasoning he must be Al-Quuida....and I agree.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28800Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:47:44 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28800Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCOK, Dave, again I ask, why doesn't your democatic house and senate end the war now? That's what they've been calling for but when put to the test they never seem to actually want that. They could vote to end funding today. It worked to end the war in Vietnam. You have lost interest? Our nation's future doesn't spark a little concern for you? If this war ends up as a "huge failure" it will be because of all the misplaced anger at Bush and partisan politics. This is war. It is by definition a series of chaotic events that ends up in victory, hopefully. But when you're fighting an enemy on the battlefield and an opposition party at home who are both equally determined to see you fail what chance do you have? Do any of you want us to win? I believe you are all cheering for failure so you can say we told you so and then that might catapult a democrat into the white house in '08. Victory at all costs, huh?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28801Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:51:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28801Bob, Orlando FLSince when is this war about Ted Kennedy? Correct me if Im wrong but I thought President Bush was the commander in chief. Get over it Darren, the American people have spoken.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28807Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:02:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28807Perry Jones (starfleet1) Tempe, AZI was opposed to this war from the beginning and accurately predicted what would happen. Now, all I see is more bloodshed and a huge loss by American forces there. The US presence in Iraq is like a magnet drawing more terrorist fighters into Iraq. Darren may be correct in one thing - that if the US leaves Iraq, the terrorists will follow to wherever we go. Unfortunately, this war has already been lost; no easy answers are available except to get out as quickly as possible with the least amount of death to our troops, the least amount of damage to our national credibility and the least amount of damage to Iraq. The Iraq Study Group and the European group both have plans which could work if implemented. The best option is to impeach Bush first and fix the war later.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28809Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:11:33 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28809Perry Jones (starfleet1) Tempe, AZBush's lies are extreme. I first noticed Bush while his father was President and Clinton was Governor of Arkansas. President Bush (Sr) and Gov. Clinton popped onto my radar screen due to their secret meetings regarding the conduct of politics and how they would groom George Jr to become President. All these things have occurred. Very, very few people accept the facts - if those facts disagree with their opinions. Most people will ignore, condemn or ridicule evidence which is contrary to what they believe regardless of how accurate the evidence is. That is what is happening on this site and will continue to happen until people find an education that teaches them how to think instead of just blindly accepting what others tell them or what they hear from the media. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28817Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:18:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28817stix-illinoisdarren is our 'usual suspect'. really doesn't have anything to offer except to drag up old (REALLY REALLY)old history in an attempt to make his point. no points here my man! Senator Smith said it all (and a republican at that!)..we should not be shedding any more blood over issues the Iraqs' have to settle among themselves; it's iraqi vs iraqi...get it?! why should our armed forces be paying the price for their civil war; we've been told our grandchildren will be paying for this war, and most probably their children, now there's a great legacy. perhaps we'll hear from Darren's grandchildren about how much they appreciated Bush's presidency ..whaddyathink?! http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28829Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:39:12 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28829John Shackelford, SCAs I have surfed the web today I have noted several posts condemning our attack on Al-Qaeda operatives in Somalia. For all the harping about getting out of Iraq and focusing on the "real" war on terror, this shows that there are too many people who are only interested in attacking Bush's policies, and finding fault in every move he makes. If we captured Bin-Laden tomorrow many of you would condemn that too. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28831Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:40:17 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28831Robert Catalano, Salem, ORCome on folks, Darren has a right to speak his mind and we have the right to refute him. That is what America is all about. That is what the Constitution Duhhh-bya considers, "just a piece of paper" is all about. It is what I fought and got wounded for. The worst times in this nation's history, Darren, have come when the citizenry agreed to junk freedom for security (Internment camps for the Japanese-Americans, The McCarthy Era, martial law in New York during the Civil War and etc.). I agree with you that Bush is probably the worst president we have ever had (at least, in my lifetime) but supporting a fool is nothing but folly. It's sort of like letting a moron run a Fortune 500 company into bankruptcy because he is the son of a major stockholder.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28835Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:46:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28835TEC, Spring TXDarren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SC. Asthma did not keep me out of the service, so why did you not join? Also, exactly what secrets did Kennedy give the soviets. Where is the documentation to support that allegation? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28837Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:52:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28837Florida FoxDarren, thank you for trying to instill a little common sense to the discussion. The cries of hate, impeachment and all kinds of pet names for the President of the United States do not add anything to the dialog. It's just proof of the good job that has been done by the very left in this country of instilling hatred. I remember following my first presidential election at the tender age of 12 and seeing first hand on TV the differences in how a campaign was conducted. It was like black and white. One side only name called and fault found. The other side tried to make some kind of point and illustration of why they should be considered. Over more than 50 years I have watched the very same thing over and over again. What we really need in this country is to entitle everyone who can achieve it the best education there is. Ignorance breeds all of this hatred. Most of the haters cannot spell.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28838Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:56:56 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28838The Edge, Macon GAAfter much thought, I believe our best option is to 'strategically redeploy' out of Iraq. ( GWB's new slogan "Pull back from Iraq, then Reattack") While the different factions have their civil war, we lick our wounds, rearm and bulk up. When one of the factions has emerged as victor, we go back in and mop them up. Why not let the Iraqi sects subdue the terrorists? They will weed out the foreigners, no reason for us to spend precious American lives trying to battle the miltias AND the imported 'martyrs'. I suspect whomever emerges from the civil war will be worn out, spent and ready to deal with us. I think this would be a much clearer objective, save American lives and the best way to assert our empirical control upon the Iraqi populace. I admit this approach is morally repulsive, cruel and calculating but, as we have already ticked off most of the other peoples of the world, why not go for a victory instead of losing an unwinnable war of attrition? We've already lost the moral high ground, might as well go all they way for a 'W' regardless of the costs to our international reputation. Of course our mental midget leader would probably mess this up and start another war somewhere else. For this to work, our troops would need to be well rested and geared up. It may be worth the chance, even our napoleon wouldn't be so stupid as to get into another mess, would he?? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28840Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:04:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28840Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, Sc Brandon, nowhere have I posted anything about Kennedy being voted into office so he could stay out of Vietnam. If some of you would actually read the intire posts before you start your personal attacks you might understand some small part of what I'm saying. I only mentioned Kennedy because he is giving the rebuttal to Bush's speech tomorrow. If he and others can critcise Bush, then he opens the door to criticism himself. He he can question Bush's character, can't I question his? And Lee in CA, I don't listen to Rush. He is a tool of the republican establshment that I have almost as much contempt for than I have for the liberal left. Both are more concerned with party than country. I have voted in every presidential election since '84 and only twice have I voted for a republican. Neither time was for George Bush. What I am advocating is a united stance. The terrorists, as I have said and we all surely know, can only defeat us by dividing us. They are accomplishing this with the help of the DEMS. Again I say, if the left wants to end the war in Iraq then why don't they do it now? Vote to end the funding now. It worked to end the war in Vietnam. The fact is they don't have the will to do it because it's the wrong thing to do. It just so happens to be the politically popular thing to say, but their actions don't match their deeds. How can you follow such hypocrisy while calling me and people who share my opinion hypocrites. Actually READ what I am saying and then I'll be happy to accept your criticism of my opinions. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28845Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:10:36 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28845Seattle SuePerry Jones-I find it a real stretch to think that Bush(sr) and Bill Clinton had secret meetings to groom George W. Bush for president. Please enlighten us as where to find these facts that very,very few people accept.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28847Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:11:35 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28847MMYeah, I am cheering for failure...are you insane?? Isn't it "American" to want to save American lives?? Isn't it American to question our leaders? Believe me, my anger for George is not misplaced. He got us into this mess, I think he should be the one to put on the boots and get us out, for that matter why doesn't he send his spoiled daughters to their deaths, and maybe he can get some of his buddies who are making a pile of money on this war to write a check. No misplaced anger here.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28850Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:21:33 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28850Lynette, NYCDARREN, I am reading your blogs and I can see you have toned it down and become more rational. Its the only way to communicate. As for what you are saying about a united front, it happens so rarely in this great country of ours i doubt anyone, least of all the terrorists, are expecting it. Honestly the only time in my lifetime I have seen us truly united was immediately post 9/11, especially here in NY, but it was really the whole country. This lasted about three weeks. So I dont think this will ever really happen. It seems that 70% of the voting public are united in the fact that Iraq is a mistake and should not be continued on its current path. This may be the united front that is happening, although maybe not the one you are hoping for. As for the democrats doing what they did to end the Vietnam war, I would say they are proceeding cautiously to quell the backlash they have yet to live down some 30+ years later. The fall of Saigon and images of the last Americans bein helicoptered out in massive defeat is not what the democrats or anyone wants. The situation is touchy, albeit a grave one. I have no answers. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28858Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:34:14 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28858Tony, Fort Myers, FLHello all. Sorry for the delay in getting into this very intellectual and factual debate. Here are some statistics folks 3000 dead in Iraq is less than 40,000+ in Vietnam. 1 ruthless dictator that oppressed his own people and was a threat to the world as quoted by our esteemed former President Clinton, "Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons...He has used them. Not once, but repeatedly. Unleashing chemical weapons against Iranian troops during a decade-long war. Not only against soldiers, but against civilians, firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran. And not only against a foreign enemy, but even against his own people, gassing Kurdish civilians in Northern Iraq." (quoted in 1998 as a justification for his military Attack on Iraq), versus no positive change in Vietnam at all. I am sorry to say for you but when history judges this President and this war they will certainly not see it as a catastrophe as you state it. As for Kennedy, I could not care less about him as he has no affect on me or currently on the Administration in control of the White House. The democrats will not impeach Bush as they would not risk their chances of uniting the Republicans and possibly losing their current edge for the '08 elections. Sorry it is called politics and everyone does it, even the open-minded, glossy-eyed, we love the world (yet won't fight to make it a better place) democrats. Look at the facts people and put them in perspective, and FYI it is obvious that we don't elect based on character as we know from FDR to Bush ALL of our Presidents have had their vices, maybe it is because they are Human??? That is not an excuse but it is to level the character bashing. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28865Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:47:20 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28865DJLDarren, How will "the terrorists" defeat us? What will the outcome of that look like? Saudis and Egyptians and Yemenis occupying the US, policing every street corner? That'll never happen. What are you talking about? Saddam wasn't Al Qaeda, his was a secular regime. How many Iraqis attacked the US on 9/11 or in Africa or the Cole? None. The war on Iraq has nothing to do with fighting terrorism. It was a war on Saddam and now he's dead and we should train up the Iraqis and leave. Iraq should be 3 countries. The Shia, Sunni, and Kurd have hated each other for centuries. Modern Iraq was created out of colonialism and like Nigeria and Yugoslavia, is suffering violence because of that.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28868Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:55:10 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28868ex-marine and viet vet,americatony there you go again telling hateful lies about dems. you failed to say that the chemical weapons iraq used against iran was sold to him by rumsfield there are pictures of rummy with a big smile as he and saddam change chemicals for $. tony there are marine and army recruiters waiting to sign you up go for it tough guy. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28875Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:08:32 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28875Perry Jones (starfleet1), Tempe, AZSeattle Sue; Thank you for your inquiry. The facts that very, very few people will accept are simply any set of facts that are contrary to that individual's worldview or opinion. Such data is usually dismissed, ignored, ridiculed or condemned. When former Pres. Bush & former Pres. Clinton met to lead a fight for charity I wondered only why it took them so long to make their friendship public. My primary beef with the current President is not the plethora of crimes he has committed, but that he is intent upon stripping America of our rights and freedoms and the liberty upon which we were founded. I read about the attack on the World Trade Center 5 months before it occurred. I heard President Bush would initiate an attack upon Saddam's Iraq before he was elected President. I stand by my sources. Read David Ickes and similar for further details.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28876Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:08:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28876Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach SCI can tell you TEC, that athsma did in fact keep me out of the service. Maybe , sir, yours was not as severe as mine once was. I would've gladly served. I sincerely thank you for your service. However, do not , sir, question my integrity. As for Kennedy I invite you all to do a web search, type in Kennedy and KGB, the information is readily available. It is in the form of a recently released memo from the Soviet archives. Little could Kennedy have known back then that the USSR would fall and this would someday be made public. In 1983 he gave info on Reagan cold war policy and, along with former Dem. Sen. John V. Tunney, who Kennedy sent to meet with Soviet officials, collaborated with Yuri Andropov, who was then General Secretary of the Communist Party, and V. Chebrikov, head of the KGB, to start a PR campaign in the US to portray Reagan a s "war-mongerer" and the Soviet leadership as seeking peace. The plan was to severely damage Reagan's re-election chances in '04. Working with a foriegn government to unseat an American president is treason, sir. I don't trust traitors, nor will I support a party that continues to excuse and cover for one. And Robert, thank you as well for your service and sacrifice. I would never favor such a thing as an internment camp, nor would I support anyone such as McCarthy. I agree with Jefferson, I believe it was, who said that those who would trade their freedom for security deserve neither security or freedom. But Ted Kennedy deserves to be seriously investigated and IF these reports are true he should be tried and IF found guilty sent straight to Leavenworth where he should live out the remainder of his days in shame. Any patriot would agree. And my whole reason for bringing Kennedy into this discussion, as I have stated previously, is this: If hid did it then for political gain, why would he not do it now?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28877Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:09:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28877DesmondTony, the Vietnam War lasted a lot longer that 3 years. You forgot to mention the over 22,000+ that have been injusred over 10,000 of them so seriously that they cannot return to combat. This disparity in the numbers has been explained by the better armor and on the spot madical the soldiers receive. This war is not over yet. When it is I would take the actual number dead and combine it with half the number of soldiers seriously injured. Would probably give you a better comparision of the tru dead compared to Vietnam figures. Yep, Hussein did all those things. HE IS DEAD. Mission accomplished. Time to go. They have a democratically elected government. Up to them to solve their civil differences. As Bush stated, we did bring them democracy. they need to stabilize their country. We do not need to be in the midst of whater war they seem to be fighting with each other.And oh, yeah that 'Nam figure is 58,000+, with still MIAS not accounted for.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28879Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:11:37 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28879Tony, Fort Myers, FLHi Ex-marine and Viet Vet, thank you for your service to our Country, I truly appreciate it and the service of all of our veterans and current soldiers. However, I would ask that you not accuse me of lying about anything, I did not tell any lie in my post and would ask you to point out what lie you mean. I quoted FACTUAL STATISTICS and specific quotes from our former President. Where do you find a lie? I understand that you may not agree with me but that does not give you the right to call me a liar, nor do I have the right to do the same to you. It is called R-E-S-P-E-C-T, ask Aretha about it. By the way thank you for calling me tough, you would certainly know what that is from being a Marine so it must be a compliment coming from you.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28880Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:14:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28880Tony, Fort Myers, FLDJL, I am inclined to agree with you on your proposed solution of training the Iraqis and leaving and of Iraq becoming 3 countries (that is something that someone is currently pushing in Congress if I remember correctly). You do understand though that this will likely take time for it to happen. Again I agree with your suggestion, so don't think I am "lying again", I think we may just defer on how to accomplish this.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28890Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:29:56 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28890Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCDJL: How will the terrorists defeart us? Can you not envision any scenario where that is a possibility? If not, that is precisely why it is possible. How about this: Some Sadaam-like dictator, maybe Sadaam would've done it himself had he been left in power, or someone like Ahamenijad gets nukes. They put a few in the hands of someone like, say, Osama Bin-Laden. Then one morning as we all get ready to head off to work we dicover that this time no planes hit any buildings, no, this time New York is utterly and completely destroyed, and Maybe L.A. or San Francisco with it. Then Bin-Laden announces that there are more nukes hidden somewhere else in the US and if we don't meet certain demands they will detonate those as well. There's a scenario for you. Too far-fetched? Yeah, probably. No way anything like that could ever happen here. I'm convinced. Bring home the troops now! Let's stop this foolish war concocted in Crawford for poliical gain! All hail the Democrat Saviours! How could we ever manage without them to show how? Puh-leeeease.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28891Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:31:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28891Mindi, SacramentoDarrin, If an escalation doesn't work, then what? I really am curious as to what you think should be done if it doesn't work. How much loss is too much for us to sustain? It seems to me that if an escalation was going to work, it should have been done 3 1/2 years ago, before this civil war started (low-level or not)and since the foreign terrorists weren't there until we went in. Unfortunately, just because we kill or capture 1 terrorist, doesn't mean another one doesn't crop up right behind the first. We will never kill or capture them all. You must change the ideology behind the tactic of terror and that won't happen at the point of a gun. This administration has squandered lives in their negligence and arrogance. Why in the world should they be trusted now? You earn respect and trust, and this administration hasn't earned mine. It seems to me that this administration spouts talk about "our brave men and women" but really couldn't care less about them. If Bush is really so intent on the "global war on terrorism" why did we not stay in Afghanistan and finish the right job? As an after thought, if Bush does set benchmarks that the Iraqi government must meet, what happens if those benchmarks or requirements are not met (just like last time when the Iraqi's were supposed to add 6 battalions and only added two, many of which just didn't show up)? What are the consequences for the Iraqi government if they continue to do nothing to change the situation?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28894Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:33:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28894Lee in CA"If we captured Bin-Laden tomorrow many of you would condemn that too." I condemn the fact that President Treason disbanded the ops group searching for Bin Laden. Do you?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28895Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:36:09 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28895!Ex-marine, if it weren't for hateful lies the right would have to shut up forever. It's all they have.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28906Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:46:41 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28906TEC-Spring TXA history lesson at the below link. http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/11/iraq.us/http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28915Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:57:25 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28915Tony, Fort Myers, FLWell, Mr. Exclamation Point (if that is alright to call you that). I do believe that both sides of the isle have shared their own batch of lies when it has suited them well. I would challenge you along with Ex-marine to tell me in what part of my post did I lie? Otherwise stay in your glass house!!! I gave factual statistics and quotes and you took the five year old approach by yelling "liar, liar, pants on fire." Very big of you, and you claim to be so much better than those you criticize. RIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!! I hope that the exclamation is loud enough for you.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28918Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:00:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28918DJLDarren, How is the war in Iraq going to do anything about Iran's nuclear capability? It's not. And now we've disarmed Iraq (it effectively doesn't have an air force and its army is too fractured and concerned about security to fight a war), Iran doesn't any nation to counterbalance it, regionally. The war is a failure in this regard as well. Not to mention Saddam didn't have WMDs. Yellowcake, aluminum tubes, anyone? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28921Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:02:05 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28921Lee in CA"I did not tell any lie in my post and would ask you to point out what lie you mean. " I pointed out one of your lies - it made no difference. You speak without honor.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28925Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:08:55 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28925Owen Vander, Evansville, INTony, your writings are very thoughtful and well reasoned. I disagree with you on many(most)of your points, agree with you on others. You sound very much like a young me 20-30 years ago. You still have some idealism and a want(need) to believe as true some of the 'facts' we receive, that many here dispute. I think you understand what some of the more emphatic bloggers on these posts are really attempting to say, rather than just dismissing them as 'leftist spin'. Our peoples' opinions are divided. This has always been and always will be. We need all of our collective positions right, left and center to be aired, discussed, even the ones that disgust! That is the secret to this Great Experiment called the United States. We can all disagree and yet still love and defend our country in our own unique way. The veterans here deserve our respect, no matter what their beliefs nor how much we agree or disagree with them nor how eloquently or how poorly they express themselves in print. (FYI I am not a veteran, my age put me in a slot where I did not have to register for the draft nor selective service.I am not worthy to carry a vet's boots, but I am American too and have my right to disagree with them) My experiences and observations have led me to a much more jaded view of our politicians. I do not believe they truly represent the people they are elected to serve. Oh, they may start out that way, idealistic, going to change the world, but in time they lose that drive and fall into one of the many traps of politics. Both sides have good and bad, honest and corrupt people. There is hope and we will persevere provided our Constitutional Rights remain intact. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28929Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:20:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28929Perry Jones (starfleet1), Tempe, AZI agree with Darren about standing up together against the enemy which divides us. However, the enemy which divides us is not Osama Bin-Laden or the terrorists, rather it is the men in the White House. Cheney and Bush are carefully orchestaring this war to achieve their aims. They orchestrated this war to line their pockets with oil money by building a pipeline through Afghanistan and controlling Iraqi oil. Bush continuously speaks about people uniting, but then attacks those who disagree with him. Iraq had no WMD nor did it have any connections with terrorism or terrorist groups. Bush quashed all investigations into the World Trade Center attacks because he knew where they would lead. The enemy does not live in the Mideast. The enemy lives in DC.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28930Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:22:20 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28930Seattle SueFlorida Fox-Are you saying that only the left stoops to name calling and twisting facts? How about the swift boat ads----Bush saying if you vote Demcratic,that you are voting for the terrorists----Bush telling us to keep shopping while our troops are in harm's way.----Florida Fox asking how a JERK like Kennedy keeps being elected.----The butcher job done on Max Cleland. The moral is don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house. I feel there is plenty of name calling, twisting of facts being done on both sides,but it doesn't make it right.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28931Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:22:46 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28931Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCTEC: I have attempted to answer your question on the evidence of Kennedy's communication with the Soviet KGB, but for some reason, MSNBC doesn't seem to be posting it. I wonder why? I will try again. Do a web search, type in Kennedy and KGB. You will find the info readily available on many reputable sites. It comes in the form of a recently released memo from the Soviet archives. According to this memo Kennedy in 1983 provided info on Reagan cold war policy and offered to collaborate with Soviet leadership, both civilian and military, to start a PR campaign in the US to portray Reagan as a "war-monger" and Soviet leadership as wanting peace. This was done as an attempt to seriously damage Reagan's re-election chances in '84. Collaborating with a foriegn government as an attempt to unseat an American president is treason, my friend. Kennedy sent former Dem. Sen. John V. Tunney to meet with V. Cherbikov, head of the KGB to discuss the plan, who then passed the message to Yuri Andropov, General Secretary of the Communist Party, on Kennedy's behalf. The congressional staffer who brought this memo to light has been suspended. He works for Dem. Representative Jane Harmon. This memo desrves serious investigation, and if it proves to be authentic, Kennedy should be charged and tried accordingly. This is relevant to this discussion because Kennedy is one of the leading Bush-dissenters and just today gave the rebuttal to Bush's new plan for Iraq. If Kennedy was willing to do it during the height of the cold war for political gain, why shouldn't we believe he would be willing to do it now? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28932Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:23:32 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28932Tony, Fort Myers, FLOwen, I agree with your post completely. You are likely very correct in your assertion as I do have idealistic views (although I am not a Eutopian-type thinker) and do have more faith in our government than it sometimes deserves. Our forefathers had enough faith to be called traitors and every soldier that fought in past wars and is fighting now must believe in something worth fighting for, even when they do not agree with particular wars they are involved in. I also agree that every single one of them deserves respect no matter where they served for 1 day or a lifetime. I would never disrespect or take for granted that service. I apologize if I have done that but I have only defended myself when I have been called a liar as I have not lied about anything. I think the root of the disagreement is that I can see the good that has come from the current war and can see (based on looking back at history and other wars we have been in and why) that it is worth fighting for. Everyone in the world deserves the rights we currently have and that is as simple as it is.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28936Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:27:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28936Sad In DCI hate to say it and sound cynical and crazy but NONE of this surprises me. Sad, yes, surprised no. I watched Bush's win on the TV back in November of 2000 too shocked to cry and, I swear it, started telling anyone who'd listen that there would be a horrible war and he would destroy Iraq...I was written off as a kook. When 9/11 took place, I was shell shocked and beyond sad, but Bush's speech gave me no comfort...I shuddered. I had this terrible horrible feeling that Afganistan was a foil and we were really invading Iraq...I was told I was paranoid...after all who would invade Iraq when Bin Laden was in Afganistan??? What a crazy liberal I was! People like me hated America. Now over 3 years after destroying Iraq, I don't take any pleasure in having told anyone so...only shame that no one stopped it. Bush may be all we have but I don't see that as an excuse for a transparent agenda. We may not be quite ready to leave Iraq but sending more troops is unconscionable. I think impeachment may be the only way. Reason doesn't work on a man concinced that God speaks through him. I don't say this because I'm a liberal...I know impeachment would be political suicide for liberals like me. I just know that sometimes there is a greater good worth a 25 year out of power sacrifice. You are welcome to disagree with me but i stand by this....I still have that right as an American...until this administration alters the Constitution again. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28938Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:28:38 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28938Tony, Fort Myers, FLLee, please do not challenge my honor, you don't know me and know nothing about me. I love my country, I love my family, and I would do anything to make them both the best they can possibly be. The fact is that this discussion is not about me it is about political opinions and the fact that you can only attack me rather than defend your opinion states as much as is needed about you!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28940Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:33:50 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28940Mad Mike Ex ArmyEx-Marine Viet Vet you keep saying "there are marine and army recruiters waiting to sign you up go for it tough guy." I already did and I enjoyed serving my country I also thank you for your service but I have to agree with Tony. He was just quoting you the facts...tough guy http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28950Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:42:24 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28950Seattle SueDarren Pope---The subject of Ted Kennedy passing secret documents to the KBG.----I would think if there was anything to this, the Republicans have not done their duty to our country. I beleive with the Republicans being in charge for years that they should have charged him and had a trial if this is true. As much as Kennedy is a thorn in their sides, I suspect they would have welcomed the chance to tear him up.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28957Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:52:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28957Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCDJL: Have you ever given any thought to the fact that we might someday soon be forced to war with Iran as well? Iraq is the perfect staging ground for such an invasion. We didn't ask for this war and I don't want it anymore than anyone else. It was started by muslim extremists, not Bush. Iraq is an integral part of the war on terror. The problem is everyone wanted a tidy little war without American or civilian casualties that would be over in a few days. Sadaam did have WMD's, or did you miss that little tidbit? Did you not get the recent reports showing that Sadaam was indeed attempting to reconstitute his nuke program, or hear from the former Iraqi general who has admitted WMD's were moved into Syria in the days and weeks before the US-led invasion? Maybe you don't want to know such things because then your argument is blown to pieces. Are you part of the crowd that thinks we should leave Iran to build nukes as it sees fit and just cross our fingers and hope they don't put them in the hands of those who would use them against us? Do you not believe Ahamenijad when he says he wants to defeat America and wipe Israel off the map? If he doesn't mean it he certainly shouldn't be threatening it. The bottom line is this, no matter what anyone says, no matter what evidence is laid out in front of you, you will continue to spout the same tired old left-wing rants until the mushroom cloud appears on the horizon over LA. Even then it'll probably be a republican conspiracy that caused it.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28962Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:58:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28962John Shackelford, SCOh my God! Perry is one of those cospiracy theorists who say Bush is responsible for 9-11. This is one of the reasons so few pay attention to even the more cogent arguments from the left. It becomes harder all the time to tell the true lunatics from the misguided, or just plain stubborn. God help us all with the left running both houses. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28968Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:13:33 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28968Mad Mike Army VetOwen Vander. Very well put. It sounds like you have almost given up though, I agree with your statement "I do not believe they truly represent the people they are elected to serve." But I also think that while I don't agree with everything Bush does we are (and history will show) in the right for bringing the war to the terrorists thereby taking it away from our own backyard. I respect what you said about our veterans and it was my belief when I was serving our country that I was protecting the rights of people like you so you could form your own opinions regardless if I agreed with you or not. That is the great thing about living here in the US. It's sad that so many people take what we have for granted until they people see first hand how some people live under dictatorships, poverty, crimes against humanity they'll never quite get it. That's why it cracks me up when supporters of the Democratic party who claim to be tolerent and accepting can't handle opinions that vary from their own. We are all free to have our own opinions the difference I've found between right leaners and left is the right leaning individuals tend to check their facts from multiple sources not one source like moveon.org. I am sorry if this sounded like an attack on the left I'm just speaking from personal experience http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28969Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:14:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28969Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCPerry, where is there any evidence of your outlandish claims? If you can show it to me I'll give it serious consideration and if it is true, then Bush and Cheney should immediately removed from office. Funny though, when challenged for evidence of Kennedy's treason, I readily provided the source and received only more rants about how Bush and Cheney are pocketing all this Iraqi oil money and evidently orchestrated the 9-11 attacks. Thanks for proving once again that the left doesn't deal in fact and evidence, but use spin and rhetoric as their primary tools. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28973Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:24:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28973Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCSeattle Sue: Again you apparently did not read my entire post about Kennedy. I never said he passed secret documents to the Soviets or anyone else. Read again. Do your own investigation. The fact is, yes, the Republicans have shirked the duty on this one. Why? I don't know. Maybe because they fear that it'll be viewed as just some baseless scandal and the dems will skillfully turn it around on them. The left is good at that sort of thing. The fact that most people have never even heard about it is what scares me. But like I said, do your own investigation. The memo is out there. Were it a republican, or a member of any party, I'd be just as angry and want something done. If it were Sen. Lott or any other republican the bloggers would come out of the woodwork and scream for his head. I don't post anything here or anywhere that I am just blindly repeating. I check the facts as best as I can first. I just ask the same from everyone else. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28975Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:26:26 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28975TEC-Spring TXTo Darren Pope. I have googled and can not find what I would call a confirm Main stream media report. Not even Fox news has a report regarding the Kennedy and KGB letter. So far the report is of a professor Kengor statements in a book and as far as I can tell he has not provided prof of the letter. I do believe, if there were any positive confirmation of such a document, then the MSM would publish the letter front page. Remember what happen to Dan Rather and he thought he has a smoking gun. Until there is a smoking gun regarding the letter, then I would have to assume all current reports to be hersay and the subject of the blog and right wing pundits, who have no obligation to confirm their sources. If it is true then treason charges should be sought, but you should not convict anyone on hersay. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28978Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:38:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28978Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach, SCTEC: There was a report in the Washington Times in Oct. '06 about the KGB memo, as well as the London Times and several other sources. The memo is not a rumor you can read it for yourself. It has been substatiated by Cherbikov himself. It is also a fact and you can find out for yourself that Sen. Tunney did travel to the USSR to meet with Soviet offiials in the spring of 1983. I'm not saying that it is a stone cold fact that Kennedy commited treason, sir, I said it deserves serious investigation. Don't you agree? I'm sure you agree if it were Dick Cheney or Karl Rove who were being accused. Be fair my friend. Spend more than a few minutes on a Google search. It will be worth your time. As I said earlier, any patriotic American would want this possibility to at least be taken under consideration by the proper authorities, right?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28979Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:46:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28979Lee in CAThe Rush faithful have found the NBC blog. They'll repeat their assinine accusations and dredge up 40 year old grievences ad naseum, while ignoring the situation at hand, preferring to obfusacate and twist, which is exactly how they came into power behind the most ridiculous excuse for a leader since Corporal Agarn of "F" troop. Two days after a stolen election it's all "get over it," but Ted Kennedy while be the villian of choice for another 40 years. Small, meaningless people who simply hate America's ideals while pretending to protect them. The New American Fascists.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28980Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:46:09 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28980Seattle SueDarren I ask again why has the Republicans not brought charges against Kennedy? They have had the power to do so up until 1-4-07. Are they not guilty of a crime to let a traitor that gave National Security documents to a foreign power remain uncharged for all of these years? Get real. I am still waiting for your reasoning as to how fighting terrorists in Iraq keeps them from attacking us here. Give me some more of those cold hard facts you are speaking of.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28982Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:48:02 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28982John Shackelford, SCI have checked out the allegation Darren of Myrtle Beach made about Ted Kennedy's collaboration w/ the KGB. I don't know if it's true but it should be checked out by someone. Apparently the author of the memo, who was at the time the head of the KGB has admitted writing it and confirms it's contents, but it doesn't seem to have gotten beyond that point as of yet. If the author is confirming it then I have to say Darren is correct, it should be seriously investigated. It's mind-blowing if it's true. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28983Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:48:46 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28983Lee in CAMeow, Tony! You lied - I caught you. Be man, show some honor and own it!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28990Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:59:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28990Tom, Boston MAOur soldiers are not crusaders, who each and every one took up arms to fight for a cause. Our soldiers are heroes, yes, but they all follow orders. Our soldiers are heroes who are being ordered to do dishonorable things, and our politicians are dishonoring us as a country by taking advantage of our soldiers to commit evil acts! Before Darren pounces, I will assert that I love America. And just as a child cries when that child sees a parent harm them self in a drunken rage, I see this country harming itself in innumerable ways, and it brings tears to my eyes. It is BECAUSE I love America that I call for change. We and our leaders are human, and we make mistakes. The greatest evil I see perpetrated is when I see such a determination to never be wrong that blatant evils are defended as just, and that solidarity is demanded over discernment! How DARE anyone draw attention from the tasks at hand or the question 'why?' to demand that we follow some path as though it has been preordained? How DARE anyone be so unpatriotic as to use the lie of 'honoring the troops' and groveling at their feet to try to hide beneath that honorable cloak the actions and decisions of those who send the troops in to battle, willing or no. How DARE anyone be so unpatriotic as to resort to fear mongering with threats of a nuclear holocaust as though there was no other, more serious threat. http://www.madd.org/stats/11088 Notice that in 2005, drunk driving killed more than 10 times those of sept 11, yet from those fear mongers one would think that 9/11 was the worst tragedy that happened in the history of the country! Even a thermonuclear attack that killed 350,000 Americans would destroy fewer lives than the last decade of drunk driving, yet one is happening every day, and the other is merely a remote possibility. How DARE the fear mongers and politicians in this country try to use that fear to draw our attention away from the real threats to this country.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#28997Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:16:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:28997Perry (starfleet1) Tempe, AZDarren's comment about Sen Kennedy is true. The reason that no charges were brought against Kennedy is because he and the Republicans are playing on the same team. Republicans and Democrats are part of the same team with a perceived difference only for the sake of the game (and public perception). See my earlier post for details.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29000Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:23:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29000Tom, Boston MAJesus consorted with prostitutes, tax collectors, and other disgusting types. I don't have a problem letting someone move beyond their past and becoming a good leader; many people are stronger for it, knowing better what evil is and how to fight it. That is not a defense of Kennedy in particular, just a comment on the fact that even great leaders can have a tarnished past.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29005Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:36:45 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29005Perry (starfleet1) Tempe, AZMy prior post apparently did not post. I recognize the censorship required in forums of this nature to curtail abuses of the system. I therefore provide the following link to where my post may be reviewed: pjpoliticsandpolicy.blogspot.com Just add the appropriate to review the site. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29009Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:46:18 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29009Perry (starfleet1) Tempe, AZMy prior post apparently did not post. I recognize the restrictions required in forums of this nature to curtail abuses of the system. I therefore provide the following link to where my post may be reviewed: pjpoliticsandpolicy.blogspot.com Just add the appropriate to review the site. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29039Wed, 10 Jan 2007 01:21:59 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29039Seattle SueDarren Pope. This a repeat of your post dated Tuesday, January 09,2007 9:57 am. What free thinking person would give credence to anything Ted Kennedy has to say reguarding the war on terror? The same Ted Kennedy who was giving info to the KGB on Reagan Administration cold war policy. Can anyone explain to me why Sen Chappaqidick isn't in prison?-----Now you tell me again that I'm too stupid to understand your post. If the KBG is not part of the Soviet Union it is sure news to me . And if that info he gave to the KBG was not secret, why should Sen.Chappaquidick be in prison. So why don't you go back and reread your own post. Like I said yesterday there is no hope for the pope. You are like Bush,in a state of denial. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29048Wed, 10 Jan 2007 01:35:02 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29048Seattle SueDarren Pope. read your post to TEC Dated Tuesday January 09,2007 5:38 pm---In your post you stated (I'm not saying that it is a stone cold fact that Kennedy commited treason, Sir I said it deserves serious investigation) Yet in your post 01-09-07 9:57 you say Sen. Kennedy was giving info to the KGB and would someone explain to you why Sen. Chappaquidick is not in prison.-----So which post do you stand by at this time? And yes I do agree with you that if this true then a serious investigation should be under way no matter if it is Kennedy,Rove,Cheney or Bush.A crime is a crime no matter who commits it.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29127Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:09:46 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29127Seattle SueDarren Pope why does your post at 9:57 this morning say Ted kennedy was giving info to the KBG and would someone explain why Kennedy was not in prison.----Then your post at 5:38 pm today you say, I'm not saying that it is a stone cold fact that Kennedy committed treason,but it deserves serious investigation.---So which is it,did Kennedy commit treason or he did not. Don't tell me that I read your posts wrong. I agree that anyone that breaks a law should be punished. No one is above the law and that includes Bush. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29148Wed, 10 Jan 2007 04:17:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29148Mark ThiemeElizabeth, Mark, and Huma: Do you see what has happened to this blog? It is called hijacking. It is not against the law, but whatever value the blog had for intelligent discussion has been(at least temporarily)lost. Notice how many of the the regulars, left, right, and middle have dropped out? Wonder why? So much for your statement, "We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others." Today's posts were akin to an alien invasion compared to the general civility and reasoned disagreement that has heretofore prevailed. Game over indeed.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29152Wed, 10 Jan 2007 04:26:51 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29152mikeeg,abdn,wadarrin is a swift boat liar he will tell any lie about his political opponents while never admitting anything doing wrong kinda like bush then he will accuse anyone with differrent opinion of lieing and being traitors its all meant to divide confuse and just get of the subject at hand which is that nov 06 there was an election and bush lost. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29241Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:55:51 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29241Stray Cat Dayton OhioHas anyone (left or right)stopped to think that just maybe this war is going exactly as the VP and Sec of Defense planned? You have to wonder what the conversation was when the heads of most of the oil companies and Cheny had the meeting that we are not allowed to speak of. Do you really think that there wasn't a conversation that went something like " We are thinking about invading Iraq. What would happen to the price of oil if we destabilized this part of the world? Do you think we could make some money?" I hate to point out to the right wingers but the oil industry has benefited from this little old war to the tune of billions of dollars of profit. More profit than any corporation has ever made. Do you really think this was an accident when the very people who started this war came from the oil industry? Gimme a break. If I were in the top 1 or 2% of the money earners in this country I would wonder if it could get any better than this. My oil companies are doing great, all my defense related stocks are doing great and my tax liability has never been this low. What a great president and a great war.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29252Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:10:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29252Mad Mike Ex Army Tom from Boston. You said "Our soldiers are heroes who are being ordered to do dishonorable things, and our politicians are dishonoring us as a country by taking advantage of our soldiers to commit evil acts!" You've obviously never served in the armed forces and your comments make our soldiers sound like mindless zombies following the lemmings off a cliff. So as a former soldier I say to you HOW DARE YOU SIR! Evil acts have been committed by our troops over there yes I'll give you that but it's nothing compared to the atrocities that happened before we arrived. Not to mention that committing evil is a conscious act unless you’re psychotic. Believe it or not our troops actually have minds of their own and over 99% of them do not and have not committed evil acts over there. I still have friends in the military serving in Iraq and while the majority of them agree with the war some do not but they all will tell you that good is coming out of their actions. There are countless acts of kindness between our troops and the Iraqi people. Unfortunately the media is more interested in death and destruction or pushing there own agenda to report the good that goes on there. (If you don’t believe me about the media try taking a journalism course in college). If you could visit you may change your mind, yes it’s a dangerous place to be but through it all our troops are standing tall and showing unbelievable acts of understanding, civility, patience, kindness, and caring all the while fighting the terrorist and they do this for every American whether they understand the danger we face or not. There has never been a greater military in this world than our American soldiers. The problem is you don’t agree with the war, or the Republicans or Bush but in the process (and I speak for my comrades) it would be appreciated if you could refrain from insulting our military. As for Kennedy he’s a draft dodger and a despicable human being if you want to talk about using our troops for political gain look at his comments on Abu Ghraib. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29254Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:10:59 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29254tony.beougher@gartner.comWow, I guess I should check the posts at night too because you guys keep going, very committed I will give you that. I had to get my kids in bed and relax a little. Anyhow, I am still waiting on Lee from CA to tell me again how I lied??? And I just read the article in the Wash Post on the Kennedy/KGB thing and it is interesting that we have not at least heard more about this...Sue I actually agree with you very much on this and feel that our republican leadership has failed in not looking at this further or at least explaining why. Not sure of the confirmation as this article is still only citing the book on Reagan and as we know from that Million pieces book, not everything is what we are told it is. This is true in books and movies (Perry I think you watched Michael Moore's movie marathon, just a poke of fun, don't go crazy on me). By the way I think we are doing a better job of communicating our opinions without slandaring and calling each other liars (all except for one but that may just be his way so that is fine he is entitled to that as an American).http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29307Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:31:51 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29307Mad Mike Ex ArmyStray Cat said "Has anyone (left or right)stopped to think that just maybe this war is going exactly as the VP and Sec of Defense planned? You have to wonder what the conversation was when the heads of most of the oil companies and Cheny had the meeting that we are not allowed to speak of." Cat has anyone stopped to think that you might be loosing your mind? Black helicopters flying a little too close to your window? Here's an exert from Senator Durbin (Democrat) and Neil Cavuto host of Fox's Your World Cavuto: Senator, do you know how much - out of curiosity - is built into a gallon of gasoline, the profits of the oil companies? Do you know what the average is? Durbin: Well, let me see. Exxon-Mobil - what did they make in three months? It was 10 billion dollars if I’m not mistaken…. Cavuto: Senator, maybe you could, maybe you could answer my question. It’s about 9 cents. Do you know how much taxes are Senator? About 50 cents. Durbin: Let me tell you… Cavuto: Don’t you think you should be more focused on the tax gouging than necessarily on the profit gouging? Durbin: How do you explain their profits? How do you explain their profits after taxes? You’re ignoring … [Maybe their profits are explained by the fact that people are paying the price that is being asked. Market forces Mr. Durbin. Sure, we’d be willing to pay less - wouldn’t we all, for just about anything? People would stop paying the price asked if it were really too high, decreasing demand and creating a new equilibrium point. - Ed.] Cavuto: Senator, I’m asking you simply. Are you ignoring the taxes? Durbin: No, I’m telling you… Cavuto: Would you roll back those taxes? Durbin. No. I'm sorry maybe the Dems are in on it too Cat. What a great Senator what a great war. You might actually be on to something keep fighting the good fight! Do us a favor and please wake up! http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29337Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:54:17 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29337John Doe, Seattle, WashLet me tell you what a jerk Sen Kennedy is. Several months ago troops were rotated home from Iraq. Once they got to the states they were dumped. They were not provided any further transportation by the military, they were looking at bus rides home of 12/20 hours. Senator Kennedy stepped in and got them plane rides, yeah the guy must be a real jerk.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29340Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:55:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29340Seattle SueTony----You and I don't agree on all subjects, but I'm happy that we agree on the fact that no one should be above the law. Republican or Democrat---Rich or poor----President or sewer cleaner.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29398Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:04:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29398Tom, Boston MAMad Mike: If you are a former soldier then you are well aware of the penalties for disobeying an order. I posit that the entire war is an evil act; that the invasion of Iraq was the use of our soldiers for an evil act in the first place. You clearly misunderstood my post, nor never made it halfway down. My argument is that the evil is in the ones who wield our military to evil ends, not the soldiers on the ground, who are put in unfortunate circumstances and to the best they can (and in most cases a truly impressive result).http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#29543Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:07:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:29543Mad Mike Army VetTom from Boston, I understand your point you don't agree with the war and you think it's evil. It's an easy segway to say our troops are the helpless victims and therefore doing the bidding of evil men in power. Because essentially that's how it comes across. The problem with this theory is the majority of our soldiers are aware firsthand of the bloodlust the terrorists have for us and they know by exterminating them at the source we are helping to prevent future attacks on our way of life (it's simple numbers). They haven't forgotten 9-11 unlike many of us and they know the terrorists are working as hard as they can to destroy our way of life. I'm truly sorry that you are confusing a personal dislike of the current administration with the reality of what's going on around us like it or not believe it or not. I was upset with your post not because of your opinion (it's your right)on the war or on the men and women in power and in control of our military but because you lumped our soldiers into your theory...they get enough of that from the politicians. Do you think if your son or daughter were over there fighting for our way of life that by telling them they are following orders for an evil cause do you think that would help them do their job any safer or return home faster? They're tough kids they can take it but why punish them with words because you have a bad take on the war? I just ask that if you truly care about our troops to think about how, what you say may effect them regardless of what you think about our leaders and if you truly feel as you say the last thing you would want to do is demoralize them...who cares about the politicians their not the ones dodging bullets. Think about the sacrifice they make day by day for you and all of us because that is the soldiers mentality. It's your right to say what you will but it's also my right to disagree and point out the obvious. So I ask you say what you will about our current administration I'm sure it's nothing they haven't heard before but leave our sons and daughters out of it they are not victims they are fighting for a cause they are fighting for you and for me they are fighting for what they believe to be right so we can enjoy the freedoms we experience today. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#30035Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:45:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:30035Stray Cat. Dayton, OhioMad Mike, In your infinite wisdom, please tell us why the energy meeting conducted by Cheny is so top secret that we the people are not allowed to know who attended this meeting let alone what was discussed and regardless of the taxes on a gallon of gas, those taxes do not affect the profits of the oil companies, only the cost paid by us the consumer. I am pretty sure that wars have been fought over oil in the past ie talk to the British about their time in Iraq, where they went for the oil, or how about the Japs who fought a war over their lack of oil. I am also sure that greed has played a part in the wars people have fought. Do you think those billions of dollars we are borrowing to spend are simply disappearing into thin air. No sir, the US Govt is paying huge amounts of money to private corporations to wage war. Some of these companies even have very close ties to the highest levels of this adminastration and I learned this without having a visit from the helicopter. Do you think the upper management of Haliburton, KBR, Becthel, Raytheon etc, are upset about this war? That they want it to end? Are you so ate up that you think greed isn't a factor? There is only one thing in Iraq that has any value to us in the US and it ain't the sand, its the oil stupid.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#30069Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:39:21 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:30069Stray Cat, Dayton, OhMad Mike, Read your comments about protecting the troops from hearing any words that may upset them, however I didn't hear your critizie the commanders whose "strategy" is to send our troops riding around in humvees waiting for the next IED to blow up. I don't think you know that 70% of the casulities come from IED's. So tell me where is the glory of battle when you are waiting to see if it is your day to be blown up in a humvee? And do you wanna know what soldiers are really concerned with? Keeping their friends and themselves alive. Thats it. Bring them home, none of them will be mad they came home alive.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/01/09/28679.aspx#30126Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:46:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:30126Stray Cat, Dayton OhOne other thought; If you look at this from the terriost point of view we look like idiots. We are grinding our fearsome Army into the Iraqi sand (been done before) and we are putting ourselves into moral and fiscal bankruptcy. Our true allies are bailing out (the British are pulling 4k troops in May) and our true enemy's (Iran, China? NK) are getting stronger. If I am a terriost leader It can't get any better, can it? Sure it can. We are going to give you another 22K targets and spend an additional who knows? 50 BILLION Whatever it takes? We look truly stupid following this strategy? and our enemies rejoice. We (The US) are not usually this stupid unless stupid serves our purpose. I contend that Cheny/Rumsdfeld/Bush had from the beginning, a motive not to be disclosed to regular folks. To serve another purpose is the only reason for them to be so stupid in their actions. Unless.... They really are so stupid they believed their own bullshit, in which case they should all be impeached because they are not worthy of being the leaders of the greatest nation ever founded.