Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Peterson — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:24:12 GMT

Obama said: "Whatever we once were, we're no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of non-believers. We should acknowledge this and realize that when we're formulating policies from the state house to the Senate floor to the White House, we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."
Finally, the end of the christian religious nutjobs. Go Obama.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

RH Oregon — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:53:58 GMT

Obama is wrong. We are a Christian nation. We were settled as a Protestant/Christian nation. It is at the core of what made and continues to make America the great country it is. It is at the core of the American identity. We do not force or even ask anyone to change their religion to join our nation. But we should never remove or waterdown this basic building block of our selves.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Gene,Mead,Wash — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:10:33 GMT

I have thought Obama might be a good change, but he totally lost me when he said last week the ACLU's victory over Hazelton, Penn's illegal immigrant stance was "A victory for all Americans". How bankrupting rural American towns is a victory is beyond me!

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

jerry skurnik — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:11:03 GMT

It's potentially a good omen for Obama that a different candidate who is the race as him won electin in a state that borders on New Hampshire? I guess it's a good omen for Hillary that a woman was elected President of India.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Lyn, MD — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:11:53 GMT

The LA Times article on Hillary's previous actions regarding her Health Care program and the secrecy around it is the reason why even IF she makes it to the General election she won't be elected.

They maybe able to wallpaper over these things now or keep them hidden but later it will be DRIP,DRIP,DRIP ( the republicans won't let it die).

What democrats have forgotten in their dislike of GWB, and the things that are currently going on,are all of the things that Independants won't like that happen during the Clinton years. Can we win back the White House without Independants? I don't think so.

The irony is that the more that comes out or things/events people are reminded of like this, the more Bush/Cheney -Lite she "Will" appear.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Lyn,MD — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:18:39 GMT

RH... He said "JUST" a Christian Nation. You have said nothing different from what he said. I don't understand what is your arguement with his statement?

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

juan,ft lauderdale,fl — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:30:10 GMT

<<We do not force or even ask anyone to change their religion>The repugnants love to use religion as a moral barometer to get elected. They are nothing but holier than thou hyprocrits ie., Gringrich, Delay, Haggert, Brownback and the Bushies.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Giancarlo, Cambridge, MA — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:38:48 GMT

I don't think the fact that Obama mentioned a Whole Foods in Iowa showed him to be "out of touch." One just tends to think that these big supermarket chains are all over the place.

I'm originally from Florida and when I first moved to Boston I asked around for a Publix Supermarket. That sort of sutff happens.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

HMT MI — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:39:28 GMT

Gene----I thought the same thing,when Obama thought this judge did the right thing.I feel bad but Obama said it and cannot take this back or explain around it to mean anything else.The federal government has done nothing to help these cities obey the laws on the books.And they sure are not going to give these cities any money to stay alive.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Buzz — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:52:21 GMT

RH- we were once a nation that traveled on horses only, too. Times/people/places change.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Johndroe — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:00:22 GMT

It's not new that Hillary is just a lefty version of GW Bush -- secretive, controlling, and paranoid.

Time for a change.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

RH Oregon — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:25:12 GMT

Lyn - When I hear phrases like "we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible" I get worried. Usually that seems to mean trying to translate/change our values as a protestant/christian nation into 1-size-fits-all values. Which does not work. In example our failure to establish English as Americas official language. How do you 'translate our values' on women's rights to the Muslim religion? Square peg, round hole.

Buzz - We are not talking about an invention or a gadget, we are talking about America's core identity. Like it or not this country was founded by White, Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Race is quickly becoming a non-issue. We can all claim to be hyphenated(-)Americans of one sort or another. But our basic Protestant/Christain values and morels should never be cast aside. Not asking you to come to church, I don't, but that aspect of our society is deeply who we are.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:31:54 GMT

Everyone already knows about Bill and Hillary and their relationship with INFOUSA. Bill Making $180,000 a year and flying over to India and helping with taking jobs away from Americans and helping set up call centers in India. This is nothing new, plus the fact that they are using call listings to rob Alzheimer's patients of their money hurts them just as much. They have backed off from their little Indian friend, but there is still something fishy about the entire setup between the Clintons and INFOUSA. Way to go L.A. Times! Bet if you keep digging, you'll really hit paydirt!

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Peds Mussle, Murdo SD — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:45:10 GMT

RH, trying to have an intelligent conversation with Buzz is like trying to teach a pig to sing. You're going to get frustrated, and its going to annoy the Buzz, eh, pig.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

JJ in NJ — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:00:12 GMT

Actually, RH, you are wrong. The Founding Fathers were deists and products of the Enlightenment. I know you want to keep this a bastion of white WASP privilege that decides how much of the country you're willing to let the rest of us share in, but that's NOT what they had in mind. And by the way, since you're such an "original intent" junkie, do you believe that black people are 3/5 of a person too?

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

nuanced — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:01:23 GMT

Obama is sounding like our founding fathers -- our country needs another Jefferson or Madison right now. Oooh, I'm actually starting to get a little excited about the election.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:02:17 GMT

Almost spit my coke on the computer screen. Hillary Clinton was a Goldwater republican????? LOL, this is just priceless. I can imagine the far left now almost choking on their doughnuts reading this. No wonder they call her Bush lite, more like Goldwater plus. If Bush was so secretive, I imagine Hillary will make his administration look like plexiglass. I hope that poor woman was taken out and beaten by the Hillary crowd.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Embrook Fielder, Lansing MI — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:03:50 GMT

Oooh, I'm actually starting to get a little excited about the election. <<<<

Yeah, we can tell. And, wear baggy pants from now on if you could.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

nuanced — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:06:36 GMT

Peds Mussle -- Buzz was using logic and an historical analogy. RH just made an unsupported bigoted statement based on his religion. Who is the one having trouble with an intelligent conversation?

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Unknown, IL — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:09:14 GMT

To turn our backs on God is to ask for lots of trouble. Sorry Obama, I disagree, we were settled as as a nation based on Christianity and should stay that way.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

nuanced — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:14:36 GMT

RH said "our basic Protestant/Christain values and morels should never be cast aside."

Morals don't come from Religion. Morals don't require religion. Some religions have adopted the inate moral feeling of humans and those developed by society and incorporated them into their religion. By being an accepting and inclusive society we are not casting aside morals because it is immoral to discriminate against others and make them second class citizens.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Flat-earther, Georgia — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:17:37 GMT

I believe our country was founed by a majority of Unitarians; believe in one God. Christians were a minority of that group and the founding fathers. The values our country was built on are pretty much the same in Christan, Jewish or Muslim faith.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

RH Oregon — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:21:19 GMT

They may have been product of, but they also left, what they established was not. And please don't try to lay your race bs on me. The "bastion of white" you see is mostly of your own making these days. Nothing is perfect, never has never will be. But I believe that the basic race issue will be so blurred in the coming decades as to have little importance, beyond the fringe individuals. As for your share? What is your share? Work your a.. off for whatever share you earn. I did. And believe me my share isn't some mansion or even 40 acres and mule. But I worked for every bit of it, never asked for, never got a handout.
My earlier comments were on our basic Protestant/Christian culture not whatever color your skin happened to be.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

RH Oregon — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:34:58 GMT

Unsupported??
Where in our 300 year history do you not see that our people have been mainly Protestant & Christian? We wrote that our government should not raise one religion above another. But religious values have been part of everything.
Bigoted??
Why is it as soon as you say White or WASP your a bigot. Nothing in my statements have I denigrated anyone of any race. Nor have I placed my ancestory anywhere in this discussion. I noted the original American settlers were white anglo-saxon protestants.

Buzz's logic that we used to ride horses and now don't. Doesn't equate to my comments that America should not throw away our common roots in Christian values. For a nation to remove the ties that bind it together is a nation ready to disolve.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Terry Jones — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:49:12 GMT

I thought our country was founded to be an autonomous collective.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Chicago — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:49:35 GMT

I want to make a neutral comment. This election is not about skin color, race, religion, or how much money you have. It is about what's best for our country. Just because Hillary is White or the fact that she is a woman doesn't mean she should win the election. The same goes for Obama and what he is, Ruday Guliana and what he is, and any other candidate out there. Leave your racist comments based on race and religion out of this. That's not what America is all about. To have someone win an election based on things other than there policies is to open a can of wormsn. Why is that so hard for anyone to see. Once again, no racist remarks, it makes every one look bad. Thanks.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Misty, Madison, WI — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:54:14 GMT

Obama is right. Keeping a Christian nametag on America will not advance us into the future. America needs change that should be apparent to all. This country needs positive forward momentum. Hillary and her drama are not needed.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Robert Pershering — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:56:59 GMT

Nuisance tells us where morals do not come from. But, then neglects to tell us where they do come from.

Guess what, the correct answer is religion.

Nuisance says that "Some religions have adopted the inate moral feeling of humans and those developed by society and incorporated them into their religion."

These are also know as cults.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:01:38 GMT

Now I know the democrat party has been split into two factions: The left wing nutjobs and the "Goldwater" version of the democratic party. God, do I feel sorry for the city hosting their convention!

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Richard Fifield, Easton, PA — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:10:15 GMT

This is a very interesting blog chain, indeed.

JJ in NJ is correct--many of our Founding Fathers were indeed deists. Some, however, belonged to the dominant churches in their respective colonies: Anglican in the southern colonies such as VA, Quakers in PA, Presbyterians/Reformed in NY and NJ, Congregationalists in New England (Maryland, a Catholic colony, may have even produced a Catholic who falls into the category of "Founding Father," depending on your definition). All were products of the Enlightenment.

The U.S. shunned an "established" church in large part because it would have been impossible to get everyone to agree on one. So "free exercise" became the orrder of the day (and remains so, theocrats to the contrary notwithstanding).

It is true that the U.S. today is far more diverse religiously than it has ever been. Christians of all persuasions compete openly with Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and any number of subsects. This is, of course, a good thing, as it fosters unity (one country) in diversity (many cultures).

Notwithstanding that, there is much which can be said for the truth that the U.S. political system (and, indeed, much of its socioeconomic system as well) owes its existence and viability to what has often been termed the "Protestant ethic" espoused by the Puritans in New England (they were, of course, primarily [intolerant] Congregationalist Christians). To pretend otherwise is a distortion of history--particularly since John Locke, the English philosopher of the Enlightenment, was himself a product of the Glorious Revolution of 1688-1689 in England--a religious controversy between the Catholic James II and a very Protestant Parliament.

Religion is an important component of most Americans' lives (and this posting is evidence of that). But America chose to be a multireligious secular society where all faiths are acceptable. That is the fact. Discussing religion in a political campaign demeans both religion and politics. There is a place for religion in our public sphere, but arguing about religion is essentially an empty gesture. As a churchgoing Protestant (who like RH works for whatever I get), I'm a lot less concerned with what religion someone espouses (usually imperfectly) than I am in what the person believes about American society.

Sadly, a lot of people (including a lot in my party) are more intent on proving that Gopd is on their side than in proving that they are on America's side.

Sad, no?

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Mark P, Cedar Rapids — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:24:14 GMT

herry says: Now I know the democrat party has been split into two factions: The left wing nutjobs and the "Goldwater" version of the democratic party.

And Hillary, to her credit, belongs to both, and a few others to boot.

Amazing woman. Just amazing.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

RH Oregon — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:46:13 GMT

RF, in PA - Well said.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

nuanced — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:49:40 GMT

Sorry RH about misinterpreting the bigot comment. When I was growing up years ago bigot meant someone who looked down on others religious beliefs and I did not mean it to refer to racism. You might refer to someone as a bigot and racist -- two different things. But it seems that the definition has morphed over the years or I didn't have it right in the first place. I just checked Wiktionary and found this definition -- "One strongly loyal to one's own social group, and irrationally intolerant or disdainful of others." It still isn't defined as racist and many people who are bigoted don't look upon it as a bad thing.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

skokie, skokie, IL — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:03:23 GMT

To RH: When the White, Anglo-Saxon Protestants "founded" America, it was in fact already populated by non-Christian Native Americans. In order for them to impose their own brand of "moral values" upon the new nation, thousands of lives of Native Americans were sacrificed in the altar of "righteousness", with the rest driven out from their lands and into reservations.

Of course, the Natives had their own set of moral values. It was just very unfortunate that the colonizers have their own version of morality, and they set out to impose that, often in violent, un-
Christian ways. It was a case of the squatters overpowering the land owners.

That's the brutal historical context. But their is no use in undoing that because we can't.

Now, our deeply-rooted Judeo-Christian values have become an essential part to the strength of this nation. But we cannot just discount other people of different religious beliefs from becoming fully integrated into the American tapestry.

I believe, Sen. Obama's stand reflects his very own expansive understanding of his Christianity. I believe he is trying to live up to his being a Christian, by observing a "good Samaritan" belief system that embraces all American "brothers and sisters" regardless of race, economic background, religion, sex.

In the final analysis, I think his proposal is very sensible. I think it will help strengthen the very American fabric, resistant to future foreign pressure, religious or otherwise.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Dee of VA — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:10:39 GMT

"On Sunday, the LA Times had a piece that's going to make the Clinton folks upset." This translates to, "Oooh, mother is going to get you, LA Times." This media fear, particularly from MSNBC, of the Clintons is disgusting!

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

RH Oregon — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:17:13 GMT

Nuanced - Cool. I'm not really coming from a holier than thou place. Got the basic Christian family background, but am basically churchless. I was speaking more to where I see America having come from. See RF's post, he think he stated it better than me. I believe that the basic core or values, rule of law, etc. that comprise what has been called the American Creed has made us what we are. The best country that man has produced. Period. I think the deconstuctionist movement away from that and people trying to shame or eliminate our cultural history are wrong. And we travel that road to our detriment.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

T.K.Owens — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:22:31 GMT

Good legislation works for people of various religious beliefs. This nation is a safe haven where citizens can worship freely and our elected officials should make ethical and just desicions for all the people. Obama is correct here, it is what this nation was founded on. Regardless of your Christian denomonation or religion, God is God. Hopefully individual American morality will endure because we were founded under GOD!!! He is in control.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

T.K.Owens — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:30:34 GMT

Not to sound hypocritical just remember: Jesus is Lord! Christ is the gate to the thrown room of heaven. Keep Christ in your heart and political correctness will follow. Christ's golden rule can't be challenged by any of the greatest philosophers in our World's recorded history.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Richard Fifield, Easton, PA — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:35:56 GMT

Thanks, RH, for the compliment. You are absolutely correct about losing our national footing if we eliminate our cultural history. Which is why "multiculturism" will eventually lead to the Balkanization of the country, and it's decline. We need to focus on what unites us (the --American) rather than on the other part (African--, Latino--, Muslim--, etc.). If we do that, we'll end up with the best of all, rather than becoming a snarling collection of mini-nations, each terminally afraid of and mad at each other.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

RH Oregon — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:40:10 GMT

Skokie - Correct the world has been very brutal to many people and still is. We can not go back just forward as best as we can. Americans were very brutal to the American Indians and ignored our own creed of 'all men are created equal' for a long time. I like to think that we have come quite a ways in the last 100 years(only a couple generations). And have been one of the biggest forces of equality in the world.
I also hope, but fear it's not true, that "other people of different religious beliefs from becoming fully integrated into the American tapestry". Part of the current problem is they are not being integrated, but wish to remain 'apart but within. An example would be the current mexican crisis. A large portion does not integrate, does not learn english, is not becoming American at all. I don't want to see us become the bi-lingual, bi-culteral society like Canada is.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

RH Oregon — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:45:10 GMT

How about we start putting the hypen after American. Show what is most important.
American-African
American-Irish
American-Hawiian
Where is my column? American-Mutt
Ya gotta love this place.
If it was China we could all go to jail, just for this discussion...

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Lynn, Millington — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:04:50 GMT

T.K. Owens,

I completely agree! Jesus is Lord. He is my Lord and Savior. No other religion can shake my Faith. I believe that Jesus was with God when He created the Heavens and the Earth. I believe Jesus asked His father to create Him a body so He could come down and be the sacrificial lamb for our sins. I believe He was born of the Virgin Mary, I believe he was crucified by the Romans (not that lie that people continue to say that the Jewish people killed Christ) and He rose on the 3rd day with ALL POWER in His hands.

Senator Obama continues to understand that we all have a stake in one another and we should all respect each other. I don't pretend to understand any religion but Christianity. I have no desire to become a member of another religious community. But as President of the United States in a Country that was founded on religious freedom, the Founding Fathers would be so proud of Senator Obama at this moment.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Giancarlo, Cambridge, MA — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:11:47 GMT

Obama's right. Thought the majority of the country is Christian, as a government we cannot and should not adopt policies that opress minorities. But rather, we should be more inclusive.

This whole "Christian Nation" notion is part of what's getting us in trouble in the middle east. Everyone knows that the United States is a predominantly Christian nation - there is no need to rub it in the face of Non-Christians.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

OutWest, Canyon Country, CA — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:34:38 GMT

Well I see we're off on the "Christian Nation" or Not thing again and what the Founding Fathers believed or didn't believe.
Our Founding Fathers were the product of the Age of Enlightenment and a critical component of it was the study of the Greek and Roman civilizations. The basis of our government is an idealized Greek/Roman Republic elected by enlightened citizens. By the way the Greeks and Roman were pagan. I challenge you to find in any of the major religions "Holy Books" any reference to a republic or any form of an elected government.
What continues to worry me about our country is the people who want to proclaim this country to be "Christian" or other religion, they in reality want a "Rule by Divine Right" by someone they proclaim to be "Chosen/Blessed by God". Remember some wingnuts tried that with Shrub, boy did they blow that one.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Michael - Simi Valley, CA — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:04:58 GMT

We are not & should never be a "chritian" nation...Alot of far righties forget that freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion...

That's why I won't vote Republican anymore...The party that once had Barry Goldwater now has lunatics like Mitt "flip" Romney, Sam Brownback, Duncan Hunter, etc. whose sermons do nothing other than divide people...

I would like to see an atheist be president, as society would be much better off if it was more secular...That likely won't happen, but I sure as hell prefer the Democratic candiates over the Republican "hypocritical, holier than thou, do as I say not as I do" Republicans.....

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

RH Oregon — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:33:57 GMT

Sounds like mikey would be more at home in old time USSR than down in squeemy valley. Are not? Should never? Weve been talking about the Christian values that are imbedded into our Nation. You know like; do not kill, love your neighbor, etc. Yea, this country would have been much better without all that nonsense.
PS: They are all hypocrits, better keep writing in Mickey Mouse.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Russell in Maryland — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:12:42 GMT

Our country was founded by people who wanted to escape rule by lords. I don't have a lord, I don't want a lord and I sure as heck don't want to be ruled by people who think they are proxies and representatives of a lord.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Jeff Morgan, Austin, TX — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:43:09 GMT

RH Oregon and Unknown IL, JJ in NJ and Richard PA aren't lying, but I understand that the founding father's a-religiousness isn't really taught or talked about, especially to kids. I guess they teach that this country was founded as a christian nation at church, heh.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:46:25 GMT

If you want to revisit colonial to early U.S. days, it should be noted that religious intensity differed quite a bit from region to region, and even locality to locality. There were hot-spots of Christianity, such as Massachussetts, eastern Pennsylvania and parts of Maryland.

But there also were more secular areas. Part of Virginia's concerns with getting in bed with some of the other areas of the country was over religious intolerance - which is why Virginia independently decreed no official religion and separation of the church from the government.

This of course was later translated into the U.S. Constitution, which in itself is a document of compromises - freedom of religion and separation of church and state being one of the things needed to bring Virginia on board.

As for the LA Times article - I knew the Bush-Lite thing would stick on the internet, but I didn't know the MSM would be so quick to pick up on it.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Mark in Burlington — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:25:29 GMT

In case you missed it, here is a quote from Thomas Jefferson: "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." There are unfortunately a lot of people who have neither learned our Founding Fathers' tolerance nor understood the inclusive nature of their politics.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Tony, IL — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 06:16:17 GMT

RH....

Actually, we were founded on Deist basis. All, and I mean all, Franklin, Washington, Hamilton, were all Deists, hence separation of Church and State. Deism IS NOT CHRISTIANITY. This is just a typical instance of Christians thinking they rule the world, when in fact they are ignorant.

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Desmond — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:59:53 GMT

"and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed as every past one has done,in showingthat religion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."-James Madison

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Buzz AKA "Arnold Ziffle with a song in his heart" Buzzy — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:09:58 GMT

Peds Mussle.... Peds Mussle,,, Hm, can't seem to recall the moniker on these pages. Please remind me- just when, again, did you ever attempt to have an intelligent (or any other kind of) conversation with me?

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Peds Mussle — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:45:52 GMT

Buzz - Trick question.

No one has yet had an intelligent conversation with you. It is not possible.

Peds

Oh-eight (D): Obama’s views on religion

Chris, Salt Lake City, Utah — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 07:24:18 GMT

"Finally, the end of the christian religious nutjobs." - Peterson

Yep. But I sure do look forward to the Muslim, Hindu, and atheist nutjobs.

"The Founding Fathers were deists and products of the Enlightenment."

Why do so many people narrow American history down to the handful of men who shaped the Constitution and Declaration? What about the soldiers of the Continental Army? What about the 170 years of American history that preceded the Revolution, and that shaped our American political traditions? The "Founding Fathers" may or may not have been devout Christians, but the founders of the Massachusetts Bay and Plymouth Colonies (amongst many others) most certainly were.

"The values our country was built on are pretty much the same in Christan, Jewish or Muslim faith." - Flat-Earther

Flat Earther you are, indeed. You've got to be kidding me. If those values are all the same, then why are there so few historically Muslim countries that anyone would choose over the historically Chritian ones?