Rove reactions

M. Boley — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:43:44 GMT

Good riddance indeed. I hope to see more of them cry as VB-Day - Victory over Bush Day - inexorably draws closer. The clock is ticking.

Rove reactions

Dick — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:50:08 GMT

Rove reactions, I got a itch !

Rove reactions

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:51:00 GMT

Rove has made an enormous contribution to our country? I'll admit that he is a political genius, but how is that contributing to our country? He managed to twice get elected a man who has demonstrated time after time that he is more concerned about convincing everyone he is right than actually being right, and more concerned about his agenda than the Constitution. What a contribution!

Rove reactions

Ron, St. Louis, Mo. — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:53:02 GMT

The house cards are starting to fall. Lets hope this trend continues. It can't happen soon enough for me.

Rove reactions

claire — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:55:07 GMT

m. boley - you do realize bush isn't actually running? this is a small point that seems to be lost on quite a few...

Rove reactions

George — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:59:49 GMT

My fellow Americans, I know nothing about Gonzo-Gate.

Rove reactions

JeanneGA — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:01:33 GMT

How about the devil incarnate-Karl Rove.

Rove reactions

Minni me — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:02:44 GMT

Alberto, George wants to see you immediately !

Rove reactions

Just watch and see — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:05:39 GMT

Going to be back to the basement hearings for Leaky and Chuck in 08

Rove reactions

Bush Republican — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:07:35 GMT

The lefties are jealous of a successful Republican political operative. Imagine that?

Rove reactions

Connie, Tn — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:08:43 GMT

Does this mean as a private citizen he can now be made to testify?? Maybe we will get him to admit everything yet!

Rove reactions

Melanie, Salisbury, MD — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:13:42 GMT

Since Huckabee is starting to make a name for himself out there, I would like to see a reporter ask him about his decision in 1999 to appoint Fay Boozman as the head of Arkansas Department of Health. Dr. Boozman was infamous at the time for his stated belief that rape victims only very rarely get pregnant, as they were subject to a "rush of hormones" that prevented it. Huckabee supported this guy despite that statement and other highly questionable activities of the "doctor." What does thta say about Huckabee's judgment? Please look this up, MSNBC types!

Rove reactions

Tom, Washington, DC — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:14:50 GMT

Leahy and Schumer are so out of touch it's funny

Rove reactions

M. Boley — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:18:17 GMT

Yes, claire, thank you for telling me something that I already know. Duh!

'Bush' as used by yours truly is defined as a symbol - a symbol of everything that could possibly be wrong with government and politics today. 'Bush' includes not only GWB himself but his veep, Condi, Gates, Snow... the whole lot of 'em!

Rove reactions

Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:20:06 GMT

Than you for listing,, yes Bush and the Republican party Suck !

Rove reactions

Democrat — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:30:03 GMT

With all of you powerful people in Washington DC from Texas, can one of you please talk to NASA about building a safe shuttle. Please.

Rove reactions

Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:30:29 GMT

See next blog below, no single replacement for Rove.

Rove reactions

karlbeatyourbestonhisworstday — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:32:03 GMT

Karl Rove consistantly beat every democratic left wing politico that came up against him and his party. Any heckling and whining as he leaves is just wasted breath. He single handedly handed you guys your butts on a platter every single day. Wahhh. Boo Hoo.
Suck it up and try again. If he doesn't back the next candidate you might actually have a chance in '08.
Oh wait, your either going to put up a bumbling novice or a crooked politics as usual woman. Never mind we can go this round without Karl.
Thanks Karl for great service. Thank you, thank you, thank you that Albert Gore was not in charge during 9/11. Take a well deserved vacation. The peanut gallery will eventually implode they always do.

Rove reactions

Class Warrior, D.C. — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:37:04 GMT

As the noose tightens around the Most-Corrupt-Ever administration, the Cheney/Bush admin, Rove runs from justice (small j, of course---Justice is run by Cheney/Bush's lapdog.)He's hoping he can avoid getting sucked down with the rest of Bush's Band o' Brigands, but being a private citizen only menas...well..that you can still get a presidential pardon...But maybe a post-Bush Consgress-With-Cojones will finally put all those "evildoers" behind bars yet.

Rove reactions

American Public — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:39:15 GMT

Bush either resign or be impeached.

Rove reactions

Jane Doe — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:39:18 GMT

August 31 should be made a National Holiday! Someone should pour salt over Karl so we can watch him dissolve. He is a white collar criminal who wrapped himself up in the American flag. Shame on him forever.

Rove reactions

Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:40:57 GMT

Just remember to take a quick looksie at the next blog.

Rove reactions

Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:43:22 GMT

Yes we're inside the Republican Headquarters, and apperantely someone turned the lights out. Was that you George?

Rove reactions

Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:43:59 GMT

Thanks G. W. !

Rove reactions

Javier, Atlanta, GA — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:45:08 GMT

Hey Carrie from Iowa, it's called being a leader. Leaders command with their convictions and are not easily swayed by outside influences like yourself.

You and the left are giving Karl to much credit. Of course, you can't expect too much from those who believe an "idiot" like Bush can hoodwink such clever minds like yourselves. If an "idiot" can dupe you, that doesn't say much about your intelligence.

Rove reactions

Tony, Fort Worth, TX — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:46:52 GMT

karlbeatyourbestonhisworstday -- I suggest you return to your home planet as soon as possible. You certainly haven't been living on this over the last 61/2 years. Karl Rove was the mastermaind behind the most disaterous presidency in American history, a legacy we all will be paying for for a very long time. Thank goodness for small favors although much too late to undo the damamge he and his incompetent friend have wreaked on us.

Rove reactions

FL — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:55:31 GMT

"Karl Rove consistantly beat every democratic left wing politico that came up against him and his party".

That’s why you had you’re a**** handed to you in 2006. Face it the walls are tumbling down and the GOP is ducking and hiding just like they always do.

Rove reactions

John Doe, The Peanut Gallery — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:59:46 GMT

Um Karlbeatyourbestonhiswortday? You care to explain what happened in 2006 then? The wave year in the last election cycle is a direct result of Rove's tactics and the lowering of politics by the Republicans. Praise the man for his past victories if you want, but remember that the political situation that Rove was instrumental in forging is going to keep the Republicans in the minority for years to come.

In that sense, I think I will say thank you to Karl Rove. Without his tactics and his influence on GOP politics the progressive movement would not have unified and pushed as hard as we are doing. The ascendancy of the left would probably not have happened if Rove and company hadn't been as succesful at electing incompetants and idiots as they were. Heck of a job Karl!

Rove reactions

David Courtney, Houston TX — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:01:08 GMT

This man is irreplacable! Is there anyone Machiavelilian enough to fill his shoes? Goering comes to mind, but he died a long time ago. Maybe this adminstration might just be forced to embark upon a totally new approach. Perhaps the truth for a change?

Rove reactions

Traitor Hater — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:01:30 GMT

"The lefties are jealous of a successful Republican political operative. Imagine that?" A Bush brown shirt morally incapable of distinguishing between "stealing" and "winning." Imagine that?

Rove reactions

Brian, Oakland, CA — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:03:42 GMT

I recommend Rove consider a nice long vacation to The Hague.

Rove reactions

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:06:14 GMT

I'm sure this point will be dismissed as Obama cheerleading, but I do think he nailed the correct response - at least the one I wanted to hear, both in terms of tone and content.

Rove reactions

mad in Madison — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:07:46 GMT

"Good bye, Turd Blossom! The Dick and I will miss you!"

Rove reactions

Independent, Texas — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:11:22 GMT

His work is done. Now he will move on to do the same thing with someone else. This means nothing except that he won't be around to have as a focal point.

I don't want him to resign. I want him escorted from the building between 2 federal marshalls in the glare of a million TV cameras, wearing handcuffs and with his coat over his large head.

I want him to have a jail cell roomie who is 6'3", 320 lbs, bald, covered in tatoos and who says his favorite fragrance is Turd Blossom.

I want him to live in a jail cell for at least 20 years.

I don't like him.

Rove reactions

s. b. p.; Detroit — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:13:39 GMT

Part of what disturbs me is that now, more than ever, it is evident that American politics have more in common with marketing and branding a product than presenting positions of principle. The Democrats are just as guilty of this as the Republicans; under Rove, however, the Republicans managed to stroke the fear of an imaginary jihad to a fever pitch in the minds of millions of American voters... and these idiots followed after Bush and Cheney like sheep.
Franklin said, "Those who would exchange liberty for security deserve neither." Rove perfected the art of not only getting people to exchange their liberty for an imagined security from an exagerrated enemy, but also figured out how to make those poor sheep grateful that they had done so.
"I want to spend more time with my family," is the oldest political euphemism ever. It really means, "I have become a liability and prefer to depart before things get too hot."

Rove reactions

thats a fact — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:18:17 GMT

thanks to rove,bush,cheny the dems will own the whitehouse and congress for next 20 year.

Rove reactions

Judith, Kalispell, Mt. — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:23:25 GMT

Rove may be a political genius, but his instincts do not serve a democracy. I am sure the shade of Thomas Jefferson is relieved by his removal.

Rove reactions

karlthearchitectwonagain&again — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:26:15 GMT

Ah yes the democratic come back in 2006... What an ubermajority your have. And with it you are accomplishing what??? Ubernothing..
Palme - nothing. If you had something there would be charges.
Wiretaps - You gave in, we need them obviously. Or did you just want to go to recess???
The Iraq war - Everyone read the intelligence, everyone voted.
2000 - Albert Gore. Enough said. Great guy for the environment. Not a leader.
2004 - John/John . A leader from the rear echelon. Lead from a foxhole on the backline.
2006 - Again that Ubermajority takin' on the man...

Have a nice vacation Karl. '08 is looking like a walk in the park..

Rove reactions

F StLouis — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:28:06 GMT

Mr. Independent, there is something wrong with you prison scenario. Sweet looking, pasty faced Karl would like it too damn much. I'd say we put Hillary Clinton in office and THAT might kill the little sissy.

Rove reactions

truth hurts Liberals — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:34:00 GMT

Bush would have to stay in office another 30 years just to catch up to Clinton in number of friends and cabinet members indicted and jailed.

Rove reactions

June Aksamit,Cleveland, Mo. — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:34:18 GMT

Don't let the door hit your backside Karl, as a matter of fact, better leave it open for Albert. bja

Rove reactions

RH Oregon — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:35:26 GMT

s.b.p. What world do you live in that the muslim jihad is imaginary? Wow, close your eyes and go back to sleep. You are right about the marketing of politicians but your blind if you think that the islamic threat is not real. Check the msm story over the weekend on Jakarta and the 90,000 muslims that gathered there and their aims. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20236318
They don't want Iraq or Sudan, they want the freakin world. Read history, if you think the Christian crusades were brutal, just wait for life under the caliphate. Republican or Democrat if your not worried about these guys your in lala land.

Rove reactions

Concerned Citizen, Austin, TX — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:42:54 GMT

Rove is no doubt a genius for engineering the greatest division amongst Americans. Leaders make a country better by uniting the population towards a common goal. This man's accomplishments benefited a very few. Shouldn't he be tried for treason?

Rove reactions

hireagoodlawywerkarl, washington dc — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:53:19 GMT

Anybody notice that since Rove announced his resignation, there have been no posts from Jerry in CC?

I knew they were one in the same person.

Rove reactions

Hypocrisy Killer, Grand Rapids — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:54:33 GMT

Check the definition for terrorist in Webster's and you will see exactly the type of person Rove will go down in history as. Using "fear" for "political gain". Sound like any recent presidential re-election campaign themes? Dirty politics always has a "mastermind". Rove leaving DC is the first step to cleaning out the gutters.

Rove reactions

Houston — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:54:44 GMT

"The lefties are jealous of a successful Republican political operative. Imagine that?"

I don't know about "lefties," but a lot of criminals must be jealous of how Rove got off the hook for a treason rap after he helped blow the cover of a CIA agent, endangering the lives of her overseas contacts and rendering the CIA front company she used worthless. Benedict Arnold at least had to flee the country.

Rove reactions

nuanced — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:58:27 GMT

When and where is the going away party? I have some gag gifts in mind.

Rove reactions

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:01:53 GMT

We will be saying the same thing to John Edwards very soon I hope. Hey John, which picket line are you going to be joining this week????

Rove reactions

JIrby, Colorado — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:12:12 GMT

We heard it from Edwards and Obama, and a mildly cute quip from Huckabee. I'll go along with Leahy, Schumer, Wilson and Obama. I would like to hear from Hillary. The responses from Republicans in high places and Repub morons on this blog gives me the feeling that we, Dems and Repubs, are not just enemies like the Sunni and Shea, but are on a course to split off into two human sub-species. I feel pretty much the same about someone who would defend BushCo as I do the Muslims who danced in the streets because of 9/11, despite the fact that the morons in question are victims of brainwashing not of their choosing. Karl Rove is running scared. Only the dregs of the population who voted for Bush both times haven't jumped ship or otherwise seen the error of their ways. The dregs amount to about fourteen percent of the voting public. You people are powerless now, and will suck up the blow-back from your stupidity after Jan '09. You fools may be bitter now, but your future is to get your faces wiped in it over and over, even though it will be like punishing a dog that doesn't understand why. Rove can't escape from justice by becoming a civilian.

Rove reactions

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:14:07 GMT

Karl Rove's statement, "I've got to do this for the sake of my family" is a cover story a two-year-old would not believe!! It’s always the “family” excuse; the same one that George W. Bush saw fit to use in part as an excuse to commute the sentence of I. Lewis Scooter Libby.

PLEASE!! The “believable” and more accurate reason would be to defend himself against current investigations and certain pending and unspecified scandals or legal “annoyances”.

The Rove-led forces have proved over and over again, and with vulgar blatancy, that they are experts at pulling off electoral scams. They are pure criminal slimes, and have done whatever it has taken to keep themselves in power and evade justice.

Rove has played by his own rules period; as does George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Heck, they don’t even recognize our society’s rules at all. Rove is a ruthless political operative, who has been stimulated by his obsessed appetite to remain in power. He has shown absolute disdain for the judicial system and up to this point, absolutely zero fear of incarceration for the high crimes and misdemeanors he has been at the heart of over the past six plus years.

Karl Rove knows where each body is buried. With scandal after scandal in this Administration, Rove’s arrogance has amplified.

Let’s review his “greatest hits”!!

Outing a Covert CIA Agent -

Knowing it is a felony to reveal the identity of covert CIA agent, Rove decided that Valerie Plame, in his words, was "fair game," because her husband, Ambassador Joseph Wilson IV, told the truth about the use of phony WMD intelligence to convince Congress of the necessity for an immediate war with Iraq.

Two "senior Administration officials" told a number of newspaper reporters that Plame was a CIA agent, and one of those reporters, rightwing ideologue Robert Novak, actually ran her name.
Gees, Plame's specialty at the CIA was tracing sources of weapons of mass destruction. So, for political ends, Rove was willing to place the national security of the United States at risk by ending the career of an agent who worked for a decade in developing contacts around the globe that could provide clues for where the WMD was going. Reprehensible!!

Swift Boating a Decorated War Veteran -

Rove was the man behind the “Swift Boat” attacks against John Kerry. None of those “men” (and I use the word loosely) served on Kerry's boat with him; but were angry with him for his anti-war statements after he returned from Vietnam. Rove, armed with cash and logistical support from major Republican backers associated with the White House, launched the “big lie” barrage about Kerry's medals and heroism. Truth was never the object, rather the false spreading of lies that made people question Kerry's record. Disgraceful!!

Hurricane Katrina -

In August 2005, Bush assigned Rove to oversee the administration's political 'damage control' effort following Hurricane Katrina in Louisiana. – We all know how deplorable this was handled then and today!!

US Attorney Firings -

“Allen Weh, chairman of the New Mexico Republican Party, said he complained in 2005 about then-U.S. Attorney David Iglesias to a White House aid for Rove, asking that Iglesias be removed.] Then in 2006 Rove personally told Weh “He’s gone,” Rove said. Weh was dissatisfied with Iglesias due in part to his failure to indict Democrats in a voter fraud investigation. Weh followed up with, "There’s nothing we’ve done that’s wrong." The White House spokeswoman, Dana Perino, has said that Rove "wasn’t involved in who was going to be fired or hired."
According to Newsweek, Kyle Sampson, Alberto Gonzales' chief of staff, developed the list of eight prosecutors to be fired last October, with input from the White House.

Timothy Griffin, a former Rove aide, was the replacement for fired attorney Henry Cummins. Specifically, Sampson sent an email that stated "The vast majority of U.S. attorneys, 80-85 percent I would guess, are doing a great job, are loyal Bushies, etc., etc." Later in the e-mail, Sampson wrote that home-state senators may resist replacing prosecutors "they recommended. That said, if Karl thinks there would be political will to do it, then so do I."

On March 14, 2007 former U. S. Senator Peter Fitzgerald said he believes Rove was trying to influence the selection in reaction to pressure from Rep. Dennis Hastert, then speaker of the House, and allies of then-Gov. George Ryan, who knew Fitzgerald was seeking someone from outside Illinois to attack political corruption.” – You’re “outed” Karl!!

E-Mail scandal -

Email communication related to the firing of United States Attorneys, revealed that Rove had exchanged documents using Republican National Committee e-mail servers such as gwb43.com, or personal e-mail accounts with third party providers such as Blackberry, considered a violation of the Presidential Records Act. – Busted!!

Investigation by the Office of Special Counsel -

On April 23, 2007, a federal agency began an extensive investigation into the activities of Karl Rove, to determine whether Rove broke federal laws by making political presentations to government employees encouraging them to find ways to support Republican candidates. Here come the nails for the coffin Karl!!

On April 24, 2007, it was revealed that Rove was being investigated by the Office of Special Counsel for his involvement in the email scandal, the firing of US attorneys, and for "improper political influence over government decision-making." – FINAL NAIL IN COFFIN!!
------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, ok Karl, you really expect ANYONE to believe you are resigning for the “sake of your family”?? No, you are resigning for the sake of YOUR criminal slime ass!!

I hope the only “Roving” Karl does is in a prison yard, for if not, we will continue to watch our democratic system get strangled and die!!

PEACE!!

Rove reactions

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:15:17 GMT

Independent -

Right on and I also want him placed in GENERAL POPULATION if possible!!

Rove reactions

Patrick — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:19:24 GMT

s. b. p.; Detroit said "Rove perfected the art of not only getting people to exchange their liberty for an imagined security from an exagerrated enemy, but also figured out how to make those poor sheep grateful that they had done so."

I don't recall losing any of my liberties, can you?

Rove reactions

Richard, Washington State — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:21:27 GMT

Independent, Texas: Why would you wish something like that just because you don't like someone?

What are Karl Rove's crimes? I'm more interested in things that actually exist outside your own mind?

But thanks for sharing your fantasies. Hope it had the desired result.

Rove reactions

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:25:37 GMT

Hey Javier from Atlanta - A few points.

1 - Please watch your tone when you address me. I don't know you from Jack, so I would appreciate you not calling me an idiot from the get-go. Please and thank you.

2 - Rove is a leader? Who has he led? He's a political operative. He doesn't lead anyone; he formulates plans to elect those who will lead.

3 - Who said I was hoodwinked? I disliked Bush in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003...well, you get the picture. I never trusted him because I found him disingenuous, with that little smirk and his "I will not rehash my past" mantra. If you are referring to the Iraq invastion, I was against it from the very beginning. I don't think a preemptive attack on questionable intelligence is a good precedent to set. I didn't then, and I still don't. I was not hoodwinked, nor was I duped.

Here's a thought. Before you rush to judgment about someone, take a minute to figure out what they are about so you don't end up looking like a complete ass.

Rove reactions

Larry R. Kingman, AZ — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:33:01 GMT

Truly the worst American to ever grace the White House, because of Karl and his crew of thugs and criminals we have lost thousands of American lives and all of the good will through out the world that real American Patriot's had earned the last 200 years.

So if people like karlbeatyourbestonhisworstday want to gloat about "the raping of real Americans" by a thug and criminal like the queer Karl Rove we deserve the hate of the rest of the world.

Myself I agree Rove need life in prison rooming with "W" and some lifer guy named bubba.

Karl the world needs you like the world needed Hitler and Osma. Not at allllllllllllllllll...

So Karl take yor next vaction on the front lines in Iraq.

Rove reactions

Dont be a hater, Fly over country, America — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:34:21 GMT

The anger, hatred and vitriole is spilling over. The Dems still have a burr under their saddle over the 2000 election. Karl Rove stood up to an unfair, incessant barrage that no one should have to endure. He stayed true to his principles and served the President well. The left hates him because he was so successful.

Rove reactions

Cary, Corbin, KY — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:38:46 GMT

Well, it's about damn time!!!
What took you soooo long Karl??
Hope you rot!

Rove reactions

Larry R. Kingman, AZ — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:44:30 GMT

Pam Bignardi, all of the things u listed are just since being in the W.H. with W, the thousands of illegal activities he did in Texas should have put him in prison for life alone.

But the Republican Party owns the state of Texas and covered up Roves dirty deeds. One of which I hear was
threating to have one of W's oppostions taken out.

Killing is nothing new to Karl almost 4000 alone in Iraq. (Texas gold) was all that oil worth it Karl??

Rove reactions

C.J., KY — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:45:51 GMT

Hope the Dems are smart enough to prolong the Rove investigations till little Bush is out of office. No pardon then.

Rove reactions

Larry R. Kingman, AZ — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:50:26 GMT

don't be a hater PLEASE stayed true to the game that is Karl, Death, oil, Texas politics it is all a game to a ego maniac like Rove, the left does not hate Karl Rove the thousands of widows in his wake hate Karl Rove and it is sad all u can say is the Dems have a burr.

Get a grip, THE WORLD HAS A BURR for your hero Karl Rove. Served his President what a J O K E, as always he served himself.

Rove reactions

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:57:11 GMT

Richard, Washington State (Sent Monday, August 13, 2007 5:21 PM)

Although your post was not directed to me, are you kidding? Independent is right on target.

However, I did compile a list of his crimes for your review.

PEACE!!

Rove reactions

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:00:53 GMT

He stayed true to his principles and served the President well. The left hates him because he was so successful.
Dont be a hater, Fly over country, America (Sent Monday, August 13, 2007 5:34 PM)

We don't "hate him", we HATE WHAT HE HAS DONE AND EVERYTHING HE STANDS FOR!!

Please wake up and smell the slime!! But feel free to party with the constitution shredder; however, I love my country and everything it was founded upon.

Karl Rove has used the constitution in lieu of toilet paper, thumbed his nose at national laws, international treaties, and the democratic process of electing officials - ALL - not just the president!!

He stayed true alright, true to crime and slime!!

PEACE!!

Rove reactions

Desmond — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:02:39 GMT

I don't hate anyone in this Administration. I consider them all hucksters. Reel back that sheath from the corn and you find blight.

Rove reactions

Don in LA — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:15:37 GMT

Karl Rove resigning is not enough...he should be layed out in his sunday best for his part in what the current administration has done to this country. All of you who support him are complete fools. That fat POS needs to be perp walked out of the WH, convicted and jailed. Leahy and Conyers have a lot of work to do because of all the cover-ups, stonewalling and lies perpetrated by this scum. There are not enough sheets on a roll of TP to wipe that a$$!

Rove reactions

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:17:08 GMT

Bush would have to stay in office another 30 years just to catch up to Clinton in number of friends and cabinet members indicted and jailed.
truth hurts Liberals (Sent Monday, August 13, 2007 4:34 PM)

When ALL else fails, here comes the "Bubububu Stuck on Stupid" response!!

BREAKING NEWS: BILL CLINTON LEFT OFFICE SIX YEARS AND 7 1/2 MONTHS AGO!!

Defend Bush on his merits or move on - the Clinton defense is old, idiotic and really makes you appear very stupid!!

Rove reactions

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:23:25 GMT

Larry R. Kingman, AZ (Sent Monday, August 13, 2007 5:44 PM)

Thanks Larry and I sure believe you!! This man is evil, pure evil!!

Nothing at all would surprise me, nothing!!

PEACE!!

Rove reactions

Laughing at luuuuuzer leftists, Rive Gauche — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:31:17 GMT

Bottom line is that all leftists' bottom lines were bested at every match and in every turn...Just go off and sulk in your sensitive feather shirts and you will wake up in a new day just as much a gaggle of whining, miserable luuuuuzers as in the beginning. Hilarious.

Rove reactions

rick,ky — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:38:03 GMT

CJ(ky), I hope they are smart enough for that,myself.Just continue to get relevant info & lay & wait till Jan-2009, then let the Party begin.Bringem in one by one, when they fail to talk, let the Feds walk them out in handcuffs. Absolutely, No pardon's then for lil george."DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICANS IS OVER"

Rove reactions

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:39:21 GMT

truth hurts Liberals (Sent Monday, August 13, 2007 4:34 PM)

PS!!

To all of you "Bubububububu Stuck On Stupid Bill Clinton Did It" people, today's date is August 13 2007 and George W. Bush's action cannot be defended by your "Bububububu Clinton Did It"!!

However, should you choose to continue to look foolish, then you should definitely be interested in the following:

George Herbert Walker Bush pardoned former Secretary of Defense Casper Weinberger and five other former Reagan administration officials on Christmas Eve 1992. Six years and thirty-five million dollars after the commencement of the independent counsel, and almost half of the respondents in a Gallup poll were willing to state their belief that Bush issued the pardons "in order to protect himself from legal difficulties or embarrassment resulting from his own role in Iran-Contra" (Hugick 1992).

By the end of his term, 138 Reagan administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever.

"Saint Ronald Reagan" himself issued 406 pardons in eight years; President Richard Nixon issued 863 pardons and 60 commutations; President Gerald Ford issued 382 pardons and 22 commutations.

Therefore, your "Bubububu Clinton Defense" is not only irrelevant and asinine as it relates to George W. Bush; Republican presidents have quite a history of being “pardon happy”!!

I’m sure the “Criminal-In-Chief’s” DADDY is very proud!!

Thank God "Idiot-In-Chief" SENIOR only served ONE term!!

Thank you President William Jefferson Clinton for the much needed "rescue"!!

PEACE!!

PEACE!!

Rove reactions

Lee Holmes — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:46:32 GMT

PAM : Trolling your garbage over from the COUNTDOWN boards I see. You have been unable to define a single provable ''crime''intitated by Rove whereby his guilt may be determined in a court of law. [Even SP Fitzgerald dropped any and all investigations bearing upon this person]. You may wail to the heavens, but Rove will never see the inside of a cell. Better to take Edwards advice and allow for ''good riddance'',and let him go his way,as the man will certainly do. [especially as the Wilsons were defeated in their lawsuit naming Rove and especially as the e-mails controversy could not be pinned to Rove in such a way as he would create an illegal condition whereby he could be prosecuted]. He will end up in a thinktank or as a lobbyist somewhere and that, will be that.

Rove reactions

Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:51:59 GMT

***nEWS aLERT*** bUSH STILL SUCKS AND gOnZo-gAtE ISN'T GOING TO FADE AWAY. sTAY tUnEd

Rove reactions

HOT DAM — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:03:54 GMT

Rove, push him over and the dough boy will roll right out of there! Grab, tar and feather, bake in sun 4 weeks. Bury quickly to keep the maggots from getting infected.

Rove reactions

Richard, Washington State — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:04:42 GMT

Pam Bignardi: Sorry, Pam, your righteous anger sounds like hate. You hate Rove so you believe they are crimes. You would like them to be crimes, but they are not. You have convicted him in your mind of crimes with no official charges, no trial, no due process. When Rove is gone, what will you do for oxygen?

"Swiftboating" was not a crime. Hardball politics is not a crime. Armitage was not charged for outing Valerie Plame, so there was no crime. Firing attorneys is not a crime, even if it is for political reasons. E-mails? An investigation does not a crime make.

I know we can't cite Clinton here, at least to your rules, but screw you, I will anyway.

Removing all the attorneys when he took office was done for political reasons. Anyone who doesn't believe that Presidents appoint their attorneys and attorneys general for political reasons is stupid. I guess that means you. Same goes for supreme court judges. That's the way it works.

The presence of special prosecution does not prove a crime as we all know from experience, but we won't mention any names so as not to offend your sensibilities and give you another reason to call someone stupid.

Thanks for the list, but it's a wish list with not a crime to be found. I don't hate you, just that you apparently stand for unreasonable hate. Aside from that, you're only mildly annoying.

But feel free to wallow.

PEACE!!!!!

Rove reactions

hELEN mIERS,tEXASS — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:06:50 GMT

weE LOVE U kARL ! nOt! PU U sTInk

Rove reactions

Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:10:06 GMT

WHAT HAPPENED ?

Rove reactions

Larry R. Kingman, AZ — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:12:08 GMT

Pam. Defen Bush on his merits, I am sorry I still can not quit laughing. Any one who tries is sure enough STUCK ON STUPID.

As someone who has served their country and seen most of the world thanks to Uncle Sam, I can hoestly say -

America is viewed by most of the world as a people with morals of Karl Rove and it is hard for me to say this but people like Karl and "W" all think this is a good thing.

It is time to clean house and Karl is a start, next we have to get the Ann Colters of the US OF A to wake up and start rebuliding the good will of the world that has been trashed the last 7 years by criminals of the Rove/Chenney Administration.

Rove reactions

CNN Lies — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:25:35 GMT

Pam Bignardi -

How can I get a piece of the tinfoil hat concession in San Pedro? I could retire tomorrow just by doing business with you.

But keep talking - the Looney Left will destroy the Democrat party.

Rove reactions

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:48:17 GMT

Larry R---you've made some pretty chilling statements here.

Care to back them up?

Rove reactions

Joe Thomas, Elizabethtown, Ky — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:57:05 GMT

It's both amusing and scary that the "American people" allegedly accept the idiocy, meaningless rhetoric and treasonous defeatism of a party that puts political power ahead of defeating a declared enemy. While bemoaning the administration of "W", you need to remember that the corruption and incompetence of your Dem front-runner and her husband are the reason he was elected in the first place. What is it about "fool me twice"?

Rove reactions

H. MANN — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:58:30 GMT

KARL,IS ON HIS WAY OUT,AS THERE ARE NO WAYS OF EXIT FROM IRAQ. HE IS OUT OF THE GREEN ZONE,HUMBLING HIMSELF TO FAMILY TIES,WHEN HE KNOWS THAT 2 MILLION ARE DISPLACED EXTERNALLY, 2 MILLION INTERNALLY,6 MILLION HUNGRY , GOD KNOWS ONLY HOW MANY DEAD,MAIMED,INJURED AND LIVES SHATTERED.

Rove reactions

Ralph Gravelle, Mexico, NY — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:00:28 GMT

History may prove that Rove was not a boy genius after all, just a political thug like his boss who was willing to wage total war on anyone standing between him and his objectives. This form of hubris only works when you are winning as the number of folks willing to take a bullet for Rove has shrunk to none.

Rove reactions

Lee, Seattle, WA — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:15:09 GMT

Patrick, just because YOU personally haven't lost any liberties (yet), doesn't mean that people haven't lost their rights. When one person's freedom is diminished it diminishes all our freedoms because the potential exists for them to take more. And don't give me that "They'd never do that to us, they just do it to the terrorists/liberals/democrats" argument.

Rove reactions

Z--ZORRO, I GOT YOUR BACK — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:15:45 GMT

***STAND UP AMERICA.. THEASE ARE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS RUNNING "YOUR" COUNTRY. DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY ..AT ALL LEVELS !!!

Rove reactions

Dramatic-Democrats — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:17:20 GMT

One person says that because Karl Rove Al Gore was not around to manage 9/11...that is so funny..how about this...if Al Gore was around there would not have been a 9/11 because he would have actually acted on the intelligence and caught the men who carried it out!! Karl Rove and his power-hungry rascals wanted 9/11 as an excuse to carry out their fascist agenda and willingly turned a blind eye to the intelligence. Yes, this is a hard pill to swallow for many, but in the pages of US history, it shall be written that this man architected the worst moral blunder that destroyed the prestige of the US and the global leadership that the world bequeathed on her!

Rove reactions

Lee, Seattle, WA — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:19:21 GMT

Cuz MC Rove tears da hedz offa crittas! I can't believe anyone finds him credible after that crap.

Rove reactions

Kevin Stahl, Dallas, Texas — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:48:37 GMT

Is everyone stupid???!!! This is too prepare for 2008 elections. He skill is in getting people elected--this is to help the GOP. Why do I not see this in any commentary?

Rove reactions

Beth Johnson — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:09:21 GMT

// Hope the Dems are smart enough to prolong the Rove investigations till little Bush is out of office. No pardon then. //

Why? President Giuliani seems like he'd be fair with Karl if it ever came to that.

Rove reactions

DStormVet, IL — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:37:58 GMT

After reading all of these post's you can definitely tell who know's what's going on and who is dumb as hell! If you actually have the nerve to get on here and praise Karl Rove or anyone else in this god awful administration then you should be on the first train to Mexico and be forced to stay there for life without a job! Karl Rove, George Bush, Albert Gonzo and Dick Cheney have proven to the American people just how corrupt, selfish and deceitful this administration is. They have taken the Constitution, thrown it on the floor in the middle of a room and took turn's pissing on it. The Republican's are done in this country and they can thank this administration for that. They have drained the entire White House of any credibility that it ever had and that includes their little puppet, Tony Snow. To the discontent of this piss poor administration, the American people have seen the light and it will show in the next election. We can thank this admin. for one thing though, after all of this they will ensure a record number of voter's taking the time to go out and vote to make a change for this country. The people want change and they will make sure it happen's in '09!

As far as this election is concerned, if you base your vote on experience then we will not end up much better than what we have now. Hillary Clinton and just about every other candidate is getting money from special interest so they will make decision's based on where the money comes from. They are just the same "experienced" politician's telling you what you want to hear until one of them get in there. Hell, Biden and Dodd are starting to shift their view's midstream because they think Hillary will win, (this was talked about on Hardball). If you trully want a fresh start then why in the hell would elect someone who get's up there and blow's smoke up your butt? Obama has proven that he has the skill, ability to unite and a proven record of telling the truth to the people, even if it isn't necessarily what we want to hear. I think "experience" has proven itself as an attribute that a good President doesn't need. We need someone to bring us together and represent our best interest, not someone to lie to us, represent the best interest of big business and then declare "executive priviledge". Obama has not been corrupted by big business and trully wants to represent the best interest of the American people and show them what it's like to actually have a government that they can trust and have faith in once again!

Rove reactions

Aaron McGraw, Titusville, Pennsylvania — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:18:30 GMT

It fills me with joy that the overwhelming majority of comments posted here address this man's obvious criminality and his role in polarizing this nation. I will relish watching Bush operate with only half his brain (that being Dick Cheney) for the remainder of his time in office. To those that attempted to laud Rove's "accomplishments", I'll simply remind them of November 2006. Karl Rove, the architecht that has brought us a president with a sub 30% approval rating and the administration that killed Habeas Corpus. What a fella. To those right-wing kooks that have to reach the whole way back to the Clinton administration to cover their butts, all I have to say is, yeah, all that economic prosperity was tiresome, wasn't it?

Rove reactions

Independent, Texas — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:23:08 GMT

s. b. p.; Detroit (Sent Monday, August 13, 2007 4:13 PM)

Beautifully stated and I agree completely re the "product" marketing approach. Completely appropriate when the average American is so very enthralled with the history-making, earth-shattering, and total worth represented by our favorite Ms. Paris Hilton.

We get what we deserve.

thats a fact (Sent Monday, August 13, 2007 4:18 PM)

Were that it would be true (caveat below)! In fact, I believe that the reasons Mr. Rove is resigning now are: 1) To begin working on the next stage of his World Order by directing RNC activities and 2) He knows that our attention span is so short that if he leaves now, all will be forgotten by the time the primaries come around, much less the general election.

(caveat: The Dems have learned well. Watch the Clinton campaign mirror Rovian tactics. Both parties are the same. The only reason that the Dem's may have less of a push than the Reps in Rovian Tactics is that they are a party of components: labor, races, sexual preferences, environmentalists, etc. Getting any two of the components to agree on anything is no small task - therefore, the Dem's aren't able to mount the scorched earth attack approach as efficiently as the RNC which has only one sustaining membership component - greed.)

Remember - as I have so often said on this blog, I was a dedicated and active Republican up through Papa Bush's 1st term. That is when I just couldn't take it anymore. The RNC approach to elections became at that time (and has strengthened since) more of a super bowl "let's win no matter what the cost - winning is everything - damn policy and national interests" game plan.

Rove reactions

J Menchaca — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:40:46 GMT

Rove's departure lends credence to the old adage about rats abandoning a (rat-infested) sinking ship. Good riddance!

Rove reactions

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, N.Y. — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:09:05 GMT

This Republican party is of the wealthy, for the wealthy and by the wealthy. They dress themselves in the cloth of the pius in order to hide their very un-Christian behavior. If you ask yourselves the question, WWJD? you know by now that this Republican party is not where the answer is to be found. The problem with Bush and company (charicatured by the inimitable and abominable, Karl), is that they have no love for the Constitution. I doubt GW has the historical perspective to understand the venerable principles of the Constitution and the rest of them are simply fascist plutocrats who have no regard for them. There are some valuable contributions that the Republican party can and has made in the past and by no means is the Democratic party without sin, but the choice in this election is so very clear to me. We must heal the divisions exacerbated by this administration (fostered by 'the architect') over the past six and one half years and try to forge ahead as a strong nation with two phalanges that discuss their differences with as much mutual respect as passion. We must agree to disagree, while working within the framework and the benevolent intent of the majestic framework given to us by our forefathers. And by the way, this is not sentimental bullsh*t, I really believe this.
Obana '08

Rove reactions

Chrissy Ellers, Provo Utah — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:42:33 GMT

Bush has had a few blips on the legal front. The Libby conviction was the low point. Congress is on their hearings kick. It will give them something to run on for re-election next year I guess.

But Pam Gignardi, you seem to more of divider then a uniter. It is very funny that you go off on some sort of illegal substance fueled rant, and then end your post with the sign-off "PEACE". Little bit of Dan Rather shown by Pam. There is little surprise you don't want anyone to compare Clinton's legal problems to Bush's issues. It's like comparing an ocean liner to a row boat.

Oh, and, PEACE!!

Rove reactions

Jim, Santa Cruz — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 04:01:40 GMT

America is a weaker country thanks to your efforts Mr. Rove. We really won't be needing you any longer.

Rove reactions

Shawn Escue, Plano, TX — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 04:04:14 GMT

Karl Rove was (still is?) a political snake! Never have I seen an administration get away with so much for so long. Nixon looks like an amature next to these guys. It's as others have mentioned above- he has been resposible for the worst, most corrupt administration in the history of the USA! Libby got off by a "presidential pardon" and now Rove's getting off by simply resigning. Tell me this isn't another tatic, by Rove and Bush, in their ever ongoing tatics to screw the American public royally and then get off scott free. It is! Hopefully the Dems can force this guy to face justice now that he's out of the loop. Probably won't happen though since Bush can once again declare "executive privilage" and get yet another crook off the hook.

Rove reactions

Byron Jones, Houston,Texas — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 04:15:24 GMT

He(Rove)jumped ship from the worse administration in American history. Hands Down.

Rove reactions

Bob. Lipsett Sr., North Attleboro, MA. 02760-4388 — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 04:31:57 GMT

Is anyone really believing that Karl is retireing. This is the guy that George H. W. Bush asked to take little Georgie Boy under his wing and show him how to play politics. From skipping a flight physcial to avoid high altitude combat status with the Texas Air Nation Guard. But his failure to pay back for the training he didn't complete.
Then with Karls help they smeared Ann Richard name in order to be elected as govenor of Texas in '94. Then they hoodwinked the state legislators into believing that the "no child left behind" would elevate Texas school standing.
Then came '97 when Karl introduced Georgie Boy to the Republicans in Missouri, their reaction was "Who's this EMPTY SUIT" as reported in Businessweek.

Then the destruction and smearing anothers name in 2000 and profess that he was not a Nation Builder and he was a Uniter and not a Divider as well saying, I'm a Compassionate Conservetive.

Jul. 10 and Aug. 6, 2001 was the chance to stop this team, Rove/Cheney/Bush/Rumfield, for control of the Middle East. George W. Bush was, by not acting was guilty of "DERELICTION OF DUTY" for not heightening the security of the FAA, NORAD, SAC, TAC, the Civil Avaition Board and the Airlines to increase security.

To me Sept. 11, 2001 didn't just happen, it was planned as a stepping stone into the Middle East. Why were the Saudi Family rushed out of America when everyone else was grounded. As far as Rove being gone, I still don't trust his presents not being in the White House. I feel that his resigning as of Aug. 31, 2007 was calculated to the report on Sept. 15, 2007 by Petraeus and I wouldn't put it pass this administration to permit another attack on our soil so that it would be impossible for this administration to leave power in a time of National Emergency and WAR.

Sorry but I don't trust or believe that Rove hand will not be in our future. I hope I'm wrong, but the same feeling when I saw the Twin Towers burning and my thoughts were "WHO and WHY did they allow this to happen." 88 nations had lost humans in those buildings.
Now this country has built a Ultra Secret Colossal Embassy in Iraq and with imported slave labor from Asia thru Kuwaiti. I believe that those who voted to go to war, were guily of putting their chances for relection on that vote. "FEAR" was the driving force that many people were afraid to be labeled UN-AMERICAN and UNPATRIOTIC in 2002 and FEAR in the churches in 2004 of Gay & Lesbian, same sex marriages and Abortion and possible loss of gun priviledges for not reelecting GWB. This country got what it deserved by not standing up for our rights. Americans depend on each other to keep us safe, and not just a person that wraps himself in the flag and parades with military that he refused to honor in Vietnam.

Rove reactions

Eat Bush's Brain — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:13:41 GMT

Rove lives in Kerville, Texas. C'mon down and say Hi!

Rove reactions

Joe, Maud, Ok — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 06:06:46 GMT

Most of the people that are speaking all this hate are just stupid. Put a D at the end of this mans name instead of an R and it would be amazing of how many of you change your side of the argument. Please open your eyes and minds and you will be able to see that this is just politics. The words that people in the media speak is not what is important it is what is really being said under the words that you need to pay attention too. I will admit either you love Bush or you hate him. But think back to 9 years ago. It was the same way with Clinton. I am a conservative and that is the way I choose to live my life. For those who live their life as a liberal that is also fine. I don't need to legislate life as politicians try to do. It is amazing how people are manipulated into what to think. The Dems have people convinced that this country is tarnished around the world and inside this country things are in shambles both economic, and socially. Stop being told what to think and start thinking for yourselves. When I hear people towing the partyline with what are obviouslly soundbites they have heard on cnn, msnbc,fox and other news programs it makes me sick, and for god sake please stop screaming your thoughts. Poeple that scream their debate at me tells me that they do not have a well thought out debate. People, this is the United States of America. Be proud of it, stop feeling bad about it. People hated us around the world long before Iraq and George W. Bush. We are the greatest country on the face of the planet and their is nothing wrong with saying that. EX. My child is my child and I will Love him and be proud of him no matter what. My country is my country no matter what. I don't care what the rest of the world thinks of me because I don't live in the rest of the world, I live here, the country that those countries wish they could be, just look at how many people risk their lives to come here. As bad as those other countries say we are, their people still wish to come here to live. Ask every American and they will tell you that they don't wanna give up their seat. So please take pride in this country and stop with all the hate talk. It is just politics and if we don't like someone we get the chance to vote them out. Quit with the sour apples and let's talk, you may suprise yourself and begin to think for yourself. God bless America!!!!!!!

Rove reactions

Independent, Texas — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:45:58 GMT

Of all the coverage re Mr. Rove's resignation and reviews of his, er, contribution to this administration, only the following line surprised me.

"Aside from guiding Bush on politics, Rove was one of Bush’s closest friends in the White House. Among other things, they competed in contests to see who could read more books."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20249940/site/newsweek/page/3/

Rove reactions

Independent,Texas — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:52:44 GMT

claire (Sent Monday, August 13, 2007 2:55 PM)

Said: "m. boley - you do realize bush isn't actually running? this is a small point that seems to be lost on quite a few... "

Claire, with all due respect, I beg to differ. The important points of selecting a candidate to support in the upcoming election is just how different they will be from Mr. Bush. In addition, he is running again although under different names, i.e. Giuliani, Romney, McCain.

IMHO.

Rove reactions

H P Boston — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:50:04 GMT

And Claire the new worst thing that can be said about anyone is THEY ARE LIKE BUSH.
Senator Clinton is being smeared with that type of slime.

Rove reactions

Hard Right — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:02:09 GMT

Independent: [Remember - as I have so often said on this blog, I was a dedicated and active Republican up through Papa Bush's 1st term. ]

Independent, by your name, I guess now you are an independent.

Could never figure out what an "Independent" stands for. Are you for raising taxes one day, then for decreasing taxes the next? Are you for being a global leader today, and for protectionism tomorrow? For abortion - then against abortion. For affirmitive action this month, against it the next? Like whats happening with the war in Iraq, then disliking what the war has done? Global warming on one day is real, the next day, it is fantasy. At one point in time, its okay that illegal immigrants are coming to the US in droves, and at another point we need to seal the border? Religious today, atheist tommorrow?

Being an "Independent" seems to me to be a lot of hard work.

Rove reactions

Dave M., Miamisburg, OH — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:13:42 GMT

karlbeatyourbestonhisworstday wrote "Karl Rove consistantly beat every democratic left wing politico that came up against him and his party. Any heckling and whining as he leaves is just wasted breath. He single handedly handed you guys your butts on a platter every single day."

Not so fast my friend. You're forgetting the 2006 November election where the Republicans "took a thumpin" and just 2 days before the election Karl Rove said "his numbers" supported his prediction of another Republican Victory. The man, indeed, had many successes as a political strategist. However, it's not fair of you to ignore or gloss over his most recent election, which was, an utter and complete failure.

The bumbleheaded Bush never was, and still isn't, suited to be President. Karl Rove, with his many talents was able to fool the electorate into thinking that the unpolished, disorganized, unprepared, can't speak in coherent sentences, son of a former President, was the lesser putz of the two candidates running for President.

He tried the same tactic in 2006, but the electorate had seen enough. Eventually, the truth catches up to you, as it did to both Karl and Geo. W. in November of 2006.

Karl Rove has had many successes and will be known throughout history as a skilled political strategists. But, let's not kiss his ass too much. He is after all an evil genius.

Rove reactions

Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:44:08 GMT

The end

Rove reactions

H P Bostom — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:04:52 GMT

Draining the cesspool at shrubs house now...there goes trud blossom.

Rove reactions

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:10:15 GMT

GOOD RIDDENCE, TO VERY BAD RUBBISH!

Rove reactions

Independent, Texas — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:14:07 GMT

Hard Right (Sent Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:02 AM)

Yes, indeed, it is hard work to be an independent. I'm not certain what you are trying to say in your post but I suspect that you are saying that because I no longer support a specific party that my ideology has changed? Is that what you meant?

I will assume that is your meaning and return that, no indeed, my ideology has not changed. The party that at one time supported that ideology has changed on most points and on others has become only a hypocritical face.

If that is not what you meant, please clarify.

Thank you for your response.

Rove reactions

Independent, Texas — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:31:31 GMT

Joe, Maud, Ok (Sent Tuesday, August 14, 2007 2:06 AM)

I agree with much of what you say. I, in fact, apologize for my post yesterday displaying intemperant language about Mr. Rove. It was, if you will, an outpouring of my extreme love of my country that such vitriol, as you say, exists in me. I also agree that vitriol leads conversations away from issues and toward the vitriol and causes more of that foul approach to be spread.

That being said, the disgust that we are displaying about this administration should never be equated in any way with not loving our nation. In fact, it should be equated with so loving our constitution that we honor it by expressing this concern.

While I agree that there existed and still exists an unquenchable hate of former President Clinton and Senator Clinton, that hate coalesced around non-office related issues.

I will speak only for myself in this point: I do not hate the persons in the Bush administration but I do absolutely hate what they have done to this nation. Yes, part of that hate is directed to the way that they have ruined our reputation in the free world of which we were considered to be the leader. Now, we are considered only to be the once-leader and reduces our ability to influence other nations regarding the issues critical to our nation's prosperity.

The blame for that lies soley, IMHO, at the feet of Mr. G. W. Bush.

Thank you for your post.

Rove reactions

M. Boley — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:34:18 GMT

Hard Right (Sent Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:02 AM)

"Yes, indeed, it is hard work to be an independent. I'm not certain what you are trying to say in your post but I suspect that you are saying that because I no longer support a specific party that my ideology has changed? Is that what you meant?

I will assume that is your meaning and return that, no indeed, my ideology has not changed. The party that at one time supported that ideology has changed on most points and on others has become only a hypocritical face.

If that is not what you meant, please clarify.

Thank you for your response."

Well, let's look at it this way. Those who call themselves 'independent' - I am one, btw - tend to THINK long and hard about each individual issue in lieu of just blindly supporting one party or the other. So, yes, it can be 'hard work' but that is much better than not thinking at all which seems to be in vogue with most of the electorate.

Yes, there are some people who support higher taxes on the wealthy, do NOT support affirmative action, are pro-choice as in not allowing the government to make a personal decision for women, support more fiscal responsibility (read: smaller and more efficient government), and are against any federal bailouts for the subprime mess.

Now try pidgeonholing me into one party or the other!

Rove reactions

Steven P., Phoenix, AZ. — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:34:20 GMT

Hey NEO-RATS,
I cannot stand Bush or Rove but lets get the facts right morons. It was a Slick Willy (Clinton) appointee named Richard Armitage who actually outed Valerie Plame.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14533384/site/newsweek/

That is why I cannot stand NEO-RATS; you always try to make up facts. I tell you one thing though, hopefully the Republicans learned to use the Nuclear Option and FIRE all NEO-RATS when they take office.
I mean after all, that is what your hero's Slick Willy and Hillary did.

Rove reactions

Independent, Texas — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:47:02 GMT

M. Boley (Sent Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:34 AM)

Thank you for responding. As I said, I wasn't certain what you were trying to say in your first post.

I was not trying to pigeonhole you and I apologize that my assumption was, evidently, in error. I agree completely with this your 2nd post.

The wording of your first post led me to assume that you thought I was "flip-flopping" about issues.

Rove reactions

Independent, Texas — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:51:13 GMT

M. Boley (Sent Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:34 AM)

Ok - since I had absolutely no sleep last night, I have to apologize AGAIN!

I mistook your post to be a response (obviously) from "Hard Right".

Geez. Sorry.

Rove reactions

M. Boley — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:05:29 GMT

No worries, Independent. It's all good. :)

Point is... this blind supporting of one party or the other is what's doing this country in. We are forsaking thoughtfulness, decency, and principles in favour of self-serving partisanship and it stinks to high heaven!

Rove reactions

Hard Right — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:32:42 GMT

Independent,

What is confusing is how independents select a candidate. As some point in time, you have to pick. Based on the issue list I put up, it is generally cut and dry what you'll get if you pick a Democrat vs. a Republican, at least in the generic sense.

Independents by their very nature, seem to be quite flexible in their political leanings. Where as a hard right person would expect to agree with the conservative line, and a rock-ribbed liberal with the liberal dogma, an independent can go either way, and cannot be too picky. A conservative/liberal may want to agree with 80% or more of the person they select. An independent looks to be happy if they agree with 51% of their candidates agenda.

In detail, an independent may be attracted to someone like Giuliani, a middle of the road guy who is a social liberal, and a fiscal conservative. Or, they may be attracted to someone like Hillary who is trying to appear middle of the road, but may move to the left at a moments notice. Or, maybe you pick someone that is actually running as an Independent like Perot, Nader, or Bloomberg, but its unclear what that accomplishes because they never win.

Or, are independents one or two issue people? As long as the candidate an independent picks focuses the way they want on a specific issue, does the independent not even care about what that candidate agenda is for other issues?

In short, what process does an independent use to select a candidate?

Rove reactions

Hard Right — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:47:39 GMT

M. Boley -

Not trying to pigeon hole anyone. It's okay to think long and hard about what your position on an issue is. But, many people vote by ideology, and thus belong to one party or another. Each person possesses a certain set of characteristics that make one or the other party attractive to them. They agree with most, but not all, of what their party stands for.

An independent though is different. By their nature, they can flip on issues. Is this because they don't have a deep or strong feeling about the issues? Or do they change their mind based on additional information they have collected since the last time they decided on an issue?

Or, the party an independent has supported can move from under them. Where once they agreed with the party, now they no longer agree. By that measure, Ronald Reagan was an independent. If this is the case though, then independents are really just switching parties because parties change on a generational bases, not so much on election to election bases.

So, how does an independent really make decisions?

Rove reactions

M. Boley — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:59:51 GMT

Hard Right, what you call 'flipping' really is seeing the world in colour instead of stark black-and-white. Not everything in this world can be reduced to a simple 'right-vs-wrong' or 'good-vs-bad' dichotomy.

There are some 'righty' issues I agree with - primarily when it comes to fiscal responsibility - and some 'lefty' issues I agree with - primarily social issues.

Rove reactions

Hard Right — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:00:08 GMT

M.Boley -

Point is... this blind supporting of one party or the other is what's doing this country in. We are forsaking thoughtfulness, decency, and principles in favour of self-serving partisanship and it stinks to high heaven!

"blind supporting" is a strong indictment of people consistently voting one party or the other.

From your statement, and by the fact you are an independent, I can conclude that you switch your vote between parties based on some process you go through. How do you reconcile, for example, voting for a party that feels low taxes is the way to go, to voting for a different party that believes in high taxes?

And, whereas you characterize hard right/left people as "forsaking thoughtfulness, decency, and principles in favour of self-serving partisanship", how do you as an independent not appear "wishy-washy" on issues and principles?

Rove reactions

H P Boston — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:22:54 GMT

I say we all register as independents, MOST people are not as hard right or left as they seem.
Ah but then again I think repuks are the devils own selfish, power hungry ,lying, scum of the hell hole of government they inflicted on our country.

Do I hate, ya betcha, a good healthy emotion that weeds out the wishy, washy.

Rove reactions

Hard Right — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:58:25 GMT

M. Boley -

Thanks for the explanation.

Can you give some examples on how you come to conclusions on how you see the world in color vs. black and white? What are you looking for in the coming election that has changed for you from the last election? How have you changed your voting preference based on how your thinking has changed over time?

Not trying to trap you or anything. There is no right or wrong answer. I honestly would like to know, with real examples, how an Independent works through the issues and comes to a conclusion on who they will vote for.

Rove reactions

John, PA — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:25:39 GMT

I think Hard Right is Karl Rove posting here trying to put together a game plan to capture Independent votes.

Just kidding - Your conversations (HR, Independent, M Boley) are the real reason i sift through the usual hate filled, one-sided arguments that populate these message boards.

Rove reactions

bb — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:50:32 GMT

Right on Pam Bignardi! Yea sister.

Rove reactions

M. Boley — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:00:43 GMT

"How do you reconcile, for example, voting for a party that feels low taxes is the way to go, to voting for a different party that believes in high taxes?"

I would vote for a candidate that is in favour of a progressive tax structure that eliminates the 'loopholes' we have in our current system. It's quite simple: the more you earn the more you pay. That is only fair. What I am seeing currently is the rich using loopholes to get out of paying as much as they should and the middle and working classes being stuck with the highest burden. It is no secret that the Republican Party is the party for those who are economically well-off and the party philosophy is to allow those people to retain as much of their wealth as possible - legally, of course. That is a basic tenet of conservatism that I have some issues with. Seems to me that the Right cares more about money and 'stuff' than they do about people. I do not care for the idea of kicking people while they are down - especially people who are down through no fault of their own. Take the bankruptcy overhaul as an example.

When a righty talk-show host or candidate drags out the old 'they're (Dems) are gonna raise your taxes' line I immediately call BS on it. That is a simplistic charge that is designed to appeal to emotion and nothing more. Let's have more depth here - more critical thinking. WHOSE taxes will be raised in a Dem administration? And HOW much will they be raised? And so forth.

Rove reactions

M. Boley — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:21:23 GMT

"Can you give some examples on how you come to conclusions on how you see the world in color vs. black and white? What are you looking for in the coming election that has changed for you from the last election? How have you changed your voting preference based on how your thinking has changed over time?"

What I mean is that there is a tendency on the Right to reduce things down to the simplest terms and the reality is that the world is much more complicated. Not everyone who commits murder deserves the death penalty, not all cases of abortion are 'wrong', not all tax cuts are justifiable, etc. The basic idea is that people should evaluate each individual case instead of just painting broadly with a single colour and stroke.

Conservatives are more 'absolutist' whereas liberals are more 'thinking'. Conservatives tend to not question authority - they accept things 'as is' if the authority has a high enough standing in their mind. Liberals will question just about anything and they are not swayed by 'authority'. "Trust me" is something that liberals generally do not put much stock in. Conservatives are more faith-based and they tend to live by a rigid code of ethics whereas liberals are more flexible and rely more on empirical evidence for support.

Here is one example of what bugs me about the Right. It is their hypocrisy when it comes to what they believe and say. They will condemn Cuba or North Korea for being Communist and for having an atrocious human rights record but at the same time they will blindly give a pass to China. Why? Well, seems to me that 'business', 'profits', and 'greed' have a louder voice to those on the Right, hence the green light to China. Cuba and North Korea do not have much to provide economically-speaking to the US so they are on the 'baddie' list.

Rove reactions

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:43:49 GMT

Chrissy Ellers, Provo Utah (Sent Monday, August 13, 2007 11:42 PM)

PEACE INDEED Chrissy!! Sadly, we have not had one day of it with this white collar criminal administration!!

Oh, yeah and using Bill Clinton to defend George W. Bush is STUPID!!

I guess Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame because Barry Bonds has supposedly used steroids!! That's another absurd argument I've heard too!!

Neither you, nor any other of your Bush-loving buddies can defend George W. Bush so it's an auto "bububu Clinton did it"!! It's the dumbest and stupidest excuse of an argument I've ever heard and I'm sick of it!!

PEACE & CIAO!!

Rove reactions

Indepedent, Texas — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:33:04 GMT

Hard Right (Sent Tuesday, August 14, 2007 1:58 PM)

Hope you don't mind if I intrude on the conversation.

As an independent voter, I go through the same process as a party-related voter. I just have more candidates from which to choose.

If you automatically remove all of the candidates from the other party, you lessen your chances of finding a good fit. This may not have been as true prior to Reagan, but it certainly is true now. With a couple of notable exceptions, there is not much difference between parties at this point.

There are "society values" issues such as gay rights and abortion. However, if you look at the R history on these points, you'll see no action taken on them so mainly these positions are talking points and encouraging hateful behavior in society. Especially where abortion is concerned, they can say they are against it all they want but, when it comes down to the wire, nothing will change based on an election.

On the opposite side, I find it very amusing that Bill Clinton won because of his economics approach and, in fact, reduced the size of government to almost 1960's level. Then Bush came along and enlarged it to almost historic levels. The comparison here is not between the 2 presidents but, rather, the fact that their respective party images would have given you the impression that they each would have been on the other ticket where fiscal responsibility is concerned.

That is why, regardless of party, I evaluate each candidate on two things: 1) Does this candidate seem to convey the willingess to actually honor the constitution rather than to game it and 2) Does the voting record for this candidate (or his/her actions outside of voting) indicate that he/she will do what he/she says he/she will do.

Prior to the Bush administration, I didn't worry so much about #1 above. Where #2 is concerned, it matters not if a candidates says things that appeals to me, if that candidate doesn't walk the talk, the talk is no good. On the opposite side, if a candidates does have opinions that I don't support, (unless those issues are deal breakers such as continuing in Iraq), I can actually feel more comfortable with that candidate. All depends on the issues which, now a'days, doesn't necessarily depend on the party.

If I come across more than 1 candidate that passes that test, then I move into putting in priority order the issues that most concern me. The priority will shift overtime. For example, priority 1 for me will be cleaning house of all the EOs and signing statements that Mr. Bush has used to litter the executive branch. Other priorities include but are not listed in order: ending our position as primary occupant of Iraq, establishing a council of STATES to deal with health care (it is the responsibility of the states to do this), firmly establishing an environmental policy that is direct and demanding and includes alternative energy plans (not just proposals)(No - I don't mind if gasoline goes to $10.00/gal.), and establishing the methods by which the Social Security fund can be restored (this means no more borrowing!!). Other items are on my list but, by far, the first 2 I mentioned are the hot buttons for me. MY reasoning is that if we can get the process cleaned up, we can address the remaining issues.

Wrapping this up with the current sorry excuse for candidates, unless Ron Paul by some miracle obtains the R nomination, I will be voting D in 2008. The remainder of the R candidates are truly nauseating. I simply have never seen a more disgusting collection of human beings. I've done extensive reading about each of them and just simply cannot believe that anyone regardless of party affiliation or of left/right leanings would be remotely satisfied to have any of them as the Leader of the Free World.

Does this explain anything?

Thanks,

Rove reactions

Hard Right — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:22:03 GMT

M. Boley - again, thanks for the response.

>> What I mean is that there is a tendency on the Right to reduce things down to the simplest terms and the reality is that the world is much more complicated. <<

Really? The Right? Maybe the media does that, but both parties work with complex subject matters. When disseminating information to the masses, both parties do tend to provide that information like they are addressing the lowest common denominator.

>> Conservatives are more 'absolutist' whereas liberals are more 'thinking'. <<

You lost me there.

Sounds like you're using a broad brush, and trying to break things down to their most simplistic terms.

And what is interesting about this is, the question was regarding how a person that describes themselves as an Independent works through the issues to arrive at a conclusion on how they will vote. Instead, what was given is a description of why you like the Left more then the Right.

Regarding China, North Korea, and Cuba. I believe the policy towards those countries has been the same, at least since Nixon went to China, for both Republican and Democratic administrations. So I'm a little confused why you target the Republicans with holding to that policy and not include the Democrats in the same light.

In either case, I appreciate your response. You provided informaion in a concise and civil manner. Both are elements that are lacking on this board.

Rove reactions

Hard Right — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:24:38 GMT

Independent, Texas,

Intruding? Nonsense. You seem to be quite civil, something missing from 90% of the conversation here.

Saw you had a lengthly response. Busy now, but will look it over later.

Rove reactions

Hard Right — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:09:02 GMT

Independent,

Had a few minutes to look through your post.

Ron Paul is going absolutely nowhere, so you can be assured you won't have to make a decision with him in
the mix.

Based on the criteria you presented, I'm trying to match up who would be the best possible viable candidate that would support the greatest number of those positions.

For Iraq, even the Democrats know in their hearts we can't leave for some time. Doing so would make the genocides seen in the Sudan and other places look like child's play.

Health care solutions being made a states issue certainly would be a good direction to go in. Then we'd have multiple methods that are tailored to the populations of each states, rather then a universal method that would be made to fit all states. But, I don't see that coming from any candidate, especially on the Democrat side. Their solutions are all for the federal government playing a major role.

$10.00/gallon for fuel. I'm guessing your talking about a raise in taxes on fuel to support alternative energy. I differ with that because you can't hobble one source of energy to produce another. Doing this would be quite a regressive tax also because it would be inflationary. Matching this to a candidate, I'm not hearing much from any of the top 3 Democrats, but if Al Gore showed up to the party, then he could be the person that would push for this tax.

As for Social Security, Bush attempted to reform it a couple years ago, and he just got buried by congress and the public. Al Gore talked of a "lock box" 8 years ago. Taking that kind of money out the economy will probably drive up interest rates. That coupled with inflation from the $10/gal gas could be problematic. Unemployment rates at 15-20% would probably occur.

Just guessing, Hillary looks to have problems matching up with what you are look for. She's going after universal coverage first thing. Obama, not sure what he wants, but he also is as big government as they come. Edwards might be your best option. He may be the weakest of the three, and he'd let congress take the lead on a lot of things. They are all certainly talking the talk of bringing the troops home, but I don't see any of them ignoring the genocide that would occur.

Thanks again for sharing how you work through the process. That was my question, and it is appreciated that you took the time to give an answer.

Rove reactions

Independent, Texas — Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:40:51 GMT

Hard Right (Sent Tuesday, August 14, 2007 6:09 PM)

Ah but Hard Right, the Dems are the only ones addressing my 2 primary points - adhereing to the constitution and cleaning up the trash left over from the Bush administration.

I will get into the policy points if you like, but the original question was about how to select a candidate when you are not affiliated with a party.

Do you wish to continue or have we answered that question?

Rove reactions

Hard Right — Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:54:02 GMT

Independent: Do you wish to continue or have we answered that question?

Oh, the question has been answered.

IMHO - You are a Democrat.

Rove reactions

Independent, Texas — Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:36:03 GMT

Hard Right (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:54 AM)

You are wrong. I find it very interesting that you can, apparently, think in only party dimensions.

The last and only party with which I ever registered was Republican. Since Bush, et al. has destroyed what was once a fine organization, I will not longer associate with it.

The reason that I will vote D in 2008 as will many other registered republicans is that I want this infestation removed from office. If the Rs ever put up a true conservative again, s/he will have my vote. I don't see that happening soon and certainly not with this bunch that is running today.

Good discussion,
thanks,