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Tom Carrington, Los Angeles, CA — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:33:19 GMT

I keep hearing that "we must win in Iraq" But if it was so important why didn't Bush Jr. manage it better. He is the one that messed it up and now he wants us to let him continue. I agree that Iraq is extremely important - that is why we need some else to fix it. Someone that is experienced. I vote for the Clintons - Bush Jr is just not smart enough to run the country. I think Barbara favored the wrong son. Jebb would have been much better.

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Democrat — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:33:28 GMT

What does everyone expect? I don't recall President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Condi Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, George Tenent, Colin Powell or Fox News telling us the reason we were invading Iraq was because we wanted to give them a democracy.
Weren't we told that the reason we were invading Iraq was because of WMD's? Because they would soon have a nuclear weapon? Didn't President Bush and Condi Rice mention something about a mushroom cloud?

Weren't the people who stood up to say there was no proof of WMD's in Iraq not listened to? And now hundreds of thousands have died.

What does our present Administration know about democracy? How can we give someone a democracy when we ourselves don't have one?

What do the Iraq's know about putting together a democracy? They have never been one.

Face it folks. Saddam Hussein wasn't lying. Yet no one was listening. No one wanted to listen.

President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Condi Rice and the idiots at Fox News should go to Iraq immediately and not return until they have come to some sort of political reconciliation with the Iraqi's. They caused this.

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John B, Des Moines, IA — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:36:06 GMT

Even an optimistic assessment written by the Bush administration doesn't sound to rosy these days.

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Still Crazy After All These Years — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:42:38 GMT

"You tell me that you've got everything you want

And your bird can sing

But you don't get me, you don't get me

You say you've seen seven wonders and your bird is green
But you can't see me, you can't see me

When your prized possessions start to wear you down
Look in my direction, I'll be round, I'll be round

When your bird is broken will it bring you down
You may be awoken, I'll be round, I'll be round

You tell me that you've heard every sound there is

And your bird can swim

But you can't hear me, you can't hear me"

"And Your Bird Can Sing"-The Beatles

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Susan, Miami — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:44:40 GMT

The surge is working ! the economy is fabulous! Bush is a moron!

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juan,ft lauderdale,fl — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:51:08 GMT

Right on Susan!

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Gail, Dallas, Tx. — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:51:27 GMT

Yes the reason we were invading Iraq was because of WMD's, but when there weren`t any to be found, was Saddam Hussein that was the tyrant that had to go.
Now it`s democracy, they can not make up their minds what our sons, daughters, husbands nad wives are fighting for. If you recall back when the war first started, about 6-7 months later that fool reported to the American people that we won. Collin Powell left because he knew that it was wrong to be there when there was no proof of WMD`s in Irag and that our troops should be pulled out, however Bush stayed the course.
Why you ask, Bush & his closest boys are looking to capitlize on the oil there, the place is full of it.

Your right Democrat they are a bunch of idiots...

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Susan, Miami — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:51:40 GMT

Tom, Jeb would have been only slightly better than Georges horrible, sorry. He ran Florida into the ground in all areas, just like his brother. Jeb has more intelligence but he is just as inflexible, arrogant, narrow-minded and ultra conservative. He had a high approval rating when he left because folks down here are very laid back and uninformed(being nice) and now they are discovering the truth. Our new very moderate republican, Govenor Crist, has been having to undo alot of rotten messes that Jeb created while in office here in Florida.

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William in Houston — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:59:24 GMT

MORON

Etymology: irregular from Greek moros foolish, stupid
1 usually offensive : a mildly mentally retarded person
2 : a very stupid person

Thank you, Susan

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Brian, Cedar Hill, TX — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:59:51 GMT

Let's have another year of Whack-a-Mole.

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nuanced — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:02:04 GMT

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand
At the mongrel dogs who teach
Fearing not that I'd become my enemy
In the instant that I preach
My pathway led by confusion boats
Mutiny from stern to bow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats
Too noble to neglect
Deceived me into thinking
I had something to protect
Good and bad, I define these terms
Quite clear, no doubt, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

"My Back Pages" - Dylan

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juan,ft lauderdale,fl — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:04:47 GMT

No such thing as victory as long as their is no sectarian and political reconciliation between the different sects. If the massacre of the Yazidies are any indication of things to come we are stuck in this quamire for a long time and we have nobody to blame except the sociopath/megomanic Bush. Now we are getting mixed signals and lukewarm support for Maliki with Hillary now sounding like a Repug wanting to get rid of an elected Prime Minister because he is not moving quick enough for reconciliation with the Sunni's because he has his own axe to grind with them;theirfore; we are stuck in this mess with American's dieing everyday. We the people need a massive infusion of new elective representatives and Senators to really represent our needs.......Yeah! right what a pipe dream. I am disgusted we both political parties.

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Asad — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:08:16 GMT

I'm waiting for the president to come out and say that the NIE is proof that his strategy is working.

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Dave, Tn — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:08:31 GMT

Democrat you should look up Bush's speech at the UN then. It was chunk full of all that humans rights and freedom crap you liberals claim you stand for.

Now if you get all your news filtered to you what you might have seen is a 5 10 second clip about WMDs and then an hour of a bunch of Liberals sitting around voices their opinions. You know the NY DC chattering class I'm talking about.

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Jim, Atlanta — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:12:32 GMT

March 2003- This shouldn't take more than 6 months.
September 2003- We need 6 more months
March 2004- We need 6 more months
September 2004- We need 6 more months
March 2005- We need 6 more months
September 2005- We need 6 more months
March 2006- We need 6 more months
September 2006- We need 6 more months
March 2007- We need 6 more months
September 2007- We need 6 more months
March 2008- We need 6 more months
September 2008- We need 6 more months
March 2009- The Democratic President needs to give it 6 more months.....

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PJ — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:13:41 GMT

Its supposed to be a blossoming democracy by now...its a decroding turd, a very expensive decroding turd. Bush & his cronies are a disgrace. Anyone who still supports this corrupt administration is either too ignorant to see what they've done or complicit in their crimes.

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La La La — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:25:43 GMT

Let's get out of there and go to Darfur!!!!! There is only about 10 different sides to that conflict.

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Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:26:58 GMT

The excerpts are clearly pessimistic in outlook. It will be interesting to see how wild the contrast will be with the script that Gen. Petraeus is asked to read before congress. Any bets?

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Tom Carrington, Los Angeles, CA — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:32:20 GMT

Susan - Thanks for the comments - I am glad to get your ideas on Jebb - because I am not sure of his record. I wasn't clear in my comments - I was only comarry the two bush boys and I think Jebb would have been better - why did Barbara pick jr

I am a DEM and only vote that way.

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Robert Catalano, Salem, OR — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:35:51 GMT

Any good news out of Iraq would be welcomed by me. The problem is, whatever gains we make, we lose the minute our troops are moved to quell another problem. Basically, we are propping up a government which cannot sustain itself if we leave. Is this democracy? Nope. All we are doing is preventing a worse civil war in Iraq than there already is and one which is inevitable. Maybe our troops should be pulled back to secure the Iraqi borders so all the factions can fight it out without any other foreign influence. They are going to fight it out anyway. It is the only way they will ever have a chance at self-determination which may or may not lead to democracy.

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Houston — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:40:13 GMT

The only real indication that Bush's escalation of the war is "working" is happy talk from pundits and politicians who've been taken on (carefully)guided tours in Iraq by the Pentagon. But the actual numbers of US troop casualties put the lie to the happy talk:

http://icasualties.org/oif/US_chart.aspx

The number of fatalities this month (65) with a week to go is already equal to the number of fatalities in August 2006. The suicide bombers are still at it and the Iraqi politicians are still on vacation.

Yet the gullible news media will still buy this latest Bush song and dance and try to help him get his poll numbers out of the toilet.

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Will Gibbs — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:47:59 GMT

I wonder if Hillary will read this NIE???

Now that the damage is done and she is running for president, I am sure she will step up with an informed opinion. Why didn't she do the proper work when it really counted?? She put our troops' lives on the line without even reading the necessary intelligence. Why are we supposed to listen to her now?

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Houston — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:14:23 GMT

The "progress" in Iraq is that when large numbers of US troops enter a neighborhood, the violence goes down. But when they leave, the violence increases again. That's what's happening to the "pacified" city of Basra. The Brits have been there for 4 years and got things pretty much under control. Now that they're leaving, all hell is breaking loose as rival Shiite militia fight each other for power.

There are only two solutions:

1. Leave Iraq, hopefully with some sort of reconstruction program in place (without the corrupt GOP contractors that have been ripping off Iraqis and doing shoddy work, with peace enforced by troops from other countries in the region.

2. Stay in Iraq forever or until there are no more Iraqis left to kill.

We all know which alternative the Bushites and wingnuts favor.

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:14:50 GMT

So if our role shifts to support rather than being the primary military force, it will erode security gains we have already achieved. There's a big shock. I think everyone, Democratic presidential candidates included, would be willing to stipulate to that. But that will probably be the case whenever we change our focus in Iraq, at least until the Iraqi people and the Iraqi government get serious about taking care of their OWN business. And I am not being criticial of the Iraqi people - it's hard to blame them for not wanting to step up and support their government when doing so could get them killed.

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Pat, Huntington Station, NY — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:15:28 GMT

Dave in TN, how about Connie's speach in late 2000 after the election wherein she said, and I quote, "Saddam Hussein has lost the ability to make war." What about Bush's comment, and I paraphrase, that the US military should not be used as democracy building tool. Your steadfast support of the lies by the administration to the people of this country and to the congress that got us into this mess, is pathetic!

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Ollie frenchburg ky — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:21:14 GMT

Every aspect of bush's presidency has been a failure. All of his ideas have been a failure. All of the people he chose for positions have been failures.

His grades:

Education, no child left behind = F
Health care = F
Immigration = F
Securing our borders = F
Iraq war = F-
Katrina = F
Keeping jobs in America = F
America's reputation = F
Finding Bib Laden = F
Speaking = F
Lying = A+

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Democrat — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:22:00 GMT

Dave, TN: I take no pleasure in what's going on with President Bush. He is my president, just as he is your president. This is my country, just as it is your country.

The Bush Administration allowed no dissenting opinions in the months leading up to the Iraq War. He was going to invade, no what matter. That is hard for me to accept from a president. People's lives were at stake.

I do not like what we have become as a nation. But I repeat again - I take no joy in saying these things. I hope we can assist the Iraqi's. I do not want to cut and run. Our honor is at stake here. And most importantly, we have young soldiers over there.

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Rick Lapin, Albuquerque, NM — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:25:14 GMT

Sure thing -- dump Maliki, because he can't govern effectively. 'Course, look what we did to the last guy who DID govern Iraq effectively ...

Face it: The office Maliki holds is designed to be a revolving door held by a succession of scapegoats who will not be given anything like the personal power needed to produce some semblance of a unified nation, because the goal has never been a unified Iraq. We mean to keep them divided, barefoot and pregnant. We mean to keep the very lucrative war there going on well into the foreseeable future. Guys like Maliki are hired to be fired when the Home Front Heat gets a little too high for political comfort.

Just exactly what would -- or could -- his replacement do differently that would lead to the sort of instantaneous reconciliation of diametric opposites the present US leadership (Democrat and Republican) is demanding? Rule with an Absolute Iron Fist, perhaps? Well, we're not about to let him do that; so any successor will end up having to do pretty much what Maliki has done so far just to stave off assassination.

Now, are we all clear on the facts of high-level political life in Occupied Iraq?

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Ravine Force, KIssimmee, FL — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:25:55 GMT

In reality, Jeb was more dangerous because he is brighter. He did leave a lot of "hanging chads" in his administration of our beautiful state that Crist is now having to deal with. The most damage was caused by the fact that he allowed passage of bills that were mandated but not funded putting the burden on local gvernment.

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Ravine Force, KIssimmee, FL — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:26:54 GMT

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norb jackson michigan — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:27:05 GMT

Not only did you elect him the first time (questionable) then, you went ahead and elected him a second term? As Forest Gump would say " stupid is as stupid does".

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Alexandra S., Port Benning,Washington — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:30:06 GMT

The surge is working ! the economy is fabulous! Bush is a moron!

Nice job!! You got two out of three correct.

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J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:33:39 GMT

It's time to start writing your congressional representatives and tell them you want our troops out of Iraq.
There are no "weapons of mass destruction," Saddam and his sons are DEAD, and there was / is NO connection betrween Iraq and 911.
Therefore, IT'S TIME TO MOVE ON!
Write, call, or email BOTH of your Senators, regardless of what party they are in. Make sure to write your Congressman ( or woman) too!
Enough is enough, get our people out of there and bring them home NOW!

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Richard Miller Fredonia, Ks. — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:37:42 GMT

We the American people are getting exactly what we deserve for electing a president with less than a double digit I.Q., who surrounds himself with people who have their own agendas in reference to the Oil supplies of the world. DUH!!!!!

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Pete Caloger Bushkill, PA 18324 — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:39:11 GMT

So did we win? Huh? Huh?

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John B, Des Moines, IA — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:42:16 GMT

Dave, why should we get all excited about "human rights and freedom crap" when it's nothing but another in a long line of excuses for a failed war in a failed country by a failed administration? Thanks for going on record that you believe that human rights and freedom are crap. I normally think of them as what America is all about, and what we're in danger of losing to this authoritarian regime.

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Class Warrior, D.C. — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:49:32 GMT

I sincerely hope that the Dems in Congress read this NIE to Petraeus and Crock-o'-sh** when they come a-visiting, and ask why this report contradicts the White House Whitewash, and see what they say...under oath. Let's get beyond Cheney/Bush's lies and happy talk and hear the real deal for once.

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Jim Frego, Grants Pass, OR Capt. US Army (ret.) — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:53:43 GMT

"We assess that changing the mission of Coalition forces from primarily counterinsurgency and stabilization role to a primary combat support role for Iraqi forces and counterterrorist operation to prevent AQI from establishing a safehaven would erode security gains achieved thus far."

I assess that without a "CHANGE IN DIRECTION" in Iraq this disaster will continue for DECADES.
Tens of thousands of dead GI's, over 100 Thousand GI's wounded, nearly 100 Thousand Iraq Security Forces dead, over 200,000 Iraqi Civilians dead, and continued EXODUS of Iraqi Civilians at the rate of over 50,000 per month may result in nobody for the Democratic Government of Iraq left to "GOVERN".

Jim Frego
Grants Pass, OR

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Richard, Washington State — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:58:43 GMT

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Susan, Miami — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:08:12 GMT

Thanks for the info Tom, and thanks for only voting democratic as well. I suspect that even Babs and old man Bush are mortified and embarrassed that their moron child was chosen to be in charge of this country, instead of the smarter, more clever son.

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JIrby, Colorado — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:12:32 GMT

This sounds really good. We may have had the wrong opinion of Bush. It could be he was right all along. We may need to try to turn this thing around before we screw up and put a Democrat in the White House. It is beginning to sound like McCain or Thompson would be worth thinking about. So what is left for us to do over there? Make Iraq a Democracy? I'm guessing that could happen before the end of the year. We may want to see how it seems to be working for a month or two, and if all goes well, we might want to think about trying it here in America. Wow, and all this time we thought Bush was a crooked, lying, moronic, no account SOB just because he started a war based on lies and has stuffed over a half trillion dollars down a rat hole. I guess that shows us. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. But just to be on the safe side, I think he should try to come up with a few more ways to fleece the majority to give to the wealthy in case a Democrat does win. You can never be too careful.

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Ollie frenchburg ky — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:29:10 GMT

The surge is working! The economy is fabulous! Bush is a moron!

Not so good!! You only got one correct.

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Amy B Portland, ME — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:31:45 GMT

People! Its not about leaving Iraq. We didn't invade Iraq in order to "liberate" it in the first place. Its about staying and securing our base. Staying and securing our Iran-side military base. The base, the base, the base.

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CJ — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:34:25 GMT

The GOP needs to get over the myth that their political opposites have an interest in bringing down the country. If anything everyone is either sad or angry. And the actions of a few are affecting us all. I'm both. Bush doesn't own the USA..we do. Stop listening to the pundits lining their wallets in cash, saying anything to stay on the air, and talking to your neighbors.

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Keith, Jacksonville, FL — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:39:33 GMT

This very, very sad journey seems to be a never ending saga where our great president (and his band of yes-men) is now directly responsible for more loss of American life than 9/11 caused......Other than greed, incompetence, arrogance and "God directly communicating with the Deciderer" what would prompt a reasonable person to allow this course of action to continue?!? I am thoroughly troubled as to what this great nation has become or even stands for........forget all that democracy garbage since every day more of our "freedoms" happen to be diminishing/vanishing.

The main purpose for going into Iraq keeps changing as the spinning continues. A Grandiose Mistake by any Standard. GW doesn't even know when he's telling the truth since one lie is intended to superseed the last.....Hitler once said that the bigger the lie the more people want to believe it.

What is gonna happen when China decides it's time to "kick us hard"?

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Still Crazy After All These Years — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:48:09 GMT

"[Bottle of Claret for you if i had realized..

Well, do it next time.

I forgot about it, George, I'm sorry.
Will you forgive me?

Yes.]

Number 9, number 9, number 9, number9
Number 9, number 9, number 9, number 9
Number 9, number 9, number 9, number...

...then there's this Welsh Rarebit wearing some brown underpants
...about the shortage of grain in hertfordshire

Last two verses-

"A man without terrore from beard to false
As the headmaster reported to my son
He really can try, as they do, to find function...
Tell what he was saying, and his voice was low and his hive high
And his eyes were low...

Alright!

It was fire and his glasses were the same
This thing knows if it was tinted
But you know it isn't
To me it is...

Number 9, number 9 number 9 number9,number 9
Numnber 9 number9, number9,number9, number9
Number 9"

"Revolution 9"-The Beatles

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:57:07 GMT

Robert Catalano - I agree with you re: letting them fight it out. It seems harsh, to some extent, because there will likely be a lot of death and destruction. But let's face it - there already is a lot of death and destruction. We're not neutralizing it, preventing it, or containing it. We can't...because ultimately, this is not about us. It's about them...it's about which faction wants it more.

I have heard people say that the Iraqis cannot be a democracy on their own because they have never been a democracy before. Well, we had never been a democracy before we declared our independence, won the Revolutionary War and (eventually) ratified the U.S. Constitution. The difference between us and the Iraqis was not experience but desire. I just don't see the Iraqi government or the Iraqi people being committed to making this work without the United States, as Robert said, propping them up.

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Ken Collins/Wagoner, Oklahoma — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:58:04 GMT

Hey Susan from Miami,
Just for a matter of fact, the Bush's are a family of deceit and back door deals with Saudi Arabia, and as a fyi George senior was having breakfast with Osama Bin Laden's Kin Folk on the morning of 9/11 and they were scuttled out of the U.S in a hurry.
GO FIGURE !!!
Jeb Bush would be the same fried egg just 8 yrs. later.
-

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J.D. in California — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:59:18 GMT

Tom, I think your recollection of history is remiss. Barb and George wanted son number 2, Jeb to be their best boy. But, he lost his first bid for governor of Florida, while their drug and alcohol addled oldest got himself elected governor of addled Texas. Thus, Jr. got a four year head start. That messed up their plans and they got stuck with George Jr. as the 2000 nominee. I still remember watching that repub convention. The camera flashed on the former president just as Jr. was nominated and his expression was grim. Equally grim was the look on Ford's face, who was sitting nearby. It was obvious to me that papa was thinking "Oh Lord, they don't know what they have just done!". If I recall correctly Barbara was looking pretty stone faced too.

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O'Fearghaill, Ventura, CA — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:59:33 GMT

Who cares if Jeb Bush would have been better than W (becides, it should have been Al Gore elected in 2000 anyway, the Supreme Court got that one wrong). The point is we need to send a clear message to all of Washington that this has to stop! Please, please email, call, or write (via snail mail) to your Senators and Congress Reps to end this war. Even if they are supporting W on this, they still have to listen to their voters. AND If they don't, vote for anyone other than them. If that doesn't work, we may have to march from the Hill to the White House. There is no way W shielders could have that many protesters arrested or secluded.

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Gail, Dallas.Tx. — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:07:53 GMT

Ok guys, read this.
Now the Republicans has gotten together with a group or organization to put up millions of dollars to run ads in 20 states supporting the war in Irag, stating that if we pull out that it`s surrender ( We are running)Duh!!.....You all know why they are doing this, because of the report that is due next month.
They are calling the DEMS cowards because they want to bring our tgroops home ( well most of the DEMS, excluding Clinton.)
They are trying to persude us Americans that the best thing to do is for the troops to stay put and die for the crap that they say they are or shall I say have been fighting for. WMD`s, Saddam Hussiem, Democracy. Theres no such thing as victory as long as their is no sectarian and political reconciliation between the different sects
WAKE UP its a CIVIL WAR!!

I agree, let them pull the troops back to protect the borders and let them fight it out themselves and while they are doing that the troops can just pullout altogether, BUSH NEEDS TO BRING THEM ALL HOME NOW!!!

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Ed Mulligan, Springfield, VA — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:08:38 GMT

Translation of the NIE report: A modicum of process against militants on the ground but no government capable of running a nation now or in the next year.

Bush will keep this futility going right through the end of his presidency so that his successor, Democrat or Republican, gets to to be the one in charge when the sky comes falling in. This is what our soldiers are dying for now.

Bush is not only the worst 2-term president in American history but also criminal in his disregard for anything resembling reality. When he leaves office, his next reality should be a prison cell.

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vanreuter, NY NY — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:26:32 GMT

Hey, anybody see that CIA report released this past week? Can't seem to find anything about it here, but I understand the NY Times had a few comments about it today.

There's one comment in particular that describes George Tenet's frustration with the administration in ignoring his entreaties to take Bin Laden seriously. In 1998.

Richard, Washington State (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:58 PM)

Your implication, your contention and your reading comprehension must all be called into question on this one.

The quote is from today's NYT editorial and is NOT critical of the Clinton administration;

"The C.I.A. inspector general’s report on the agency’s failures before Sept. 11 was devastating — but not because it showed that America’s spies missed the rise of Al Qaeda. George Tenet, then the director of central intelligence, rang the Qaeda alarm. He sent a memo to the entire intelligence community saying that he wanted no effort spared in the “war” with Osama bin Laden. He took on the president’s closest advisers to agitate for a strike on a Qaeda base in Afghanistan.

The disturbing thing was that this all happened under President Bill Clinton. When George W. Bush won the White House, Mr. Tenet seems to have shifted his priorities. The C.I.A. chief suddenly seemed consumed with hanging on to his job."

Nowhere does anything imply that Tenet's warnings were ignored by the Clinton WH, to the contrary, Richard Clarke, former Counterterrorism Czar under Bill Clinton testified to exactly the opposite;
From the 9/11 commission report;

On December 4, 1998, for example, the Clinton administration received a President’s Daily Brief entitled “Bin Ladin Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks.” Here’s how the Clinton administration reacted, according to the 9/11 Commission report:

The same day, [Counterterrorism Czar Richard] Clarke convened a meeting of his CSG [Counterterrorism Security Group] to discuss both the hijacking concern and the antiaircraft missile threat. To address the hijacking warning, the group agreed that New York airports should go to maximum security starting that weekend. They agreed to boost security at other East coast airports. The CIA agreed to distribute versions of the report to the FBI and FAA to pass to the New York Police Department and the airlines. The FAA issued a security directive on December 8, with specific requirements for more intensive air carrier screening of passengers and more oversight of the screening process, at all three New York area airports. [pg. 128-30]

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/26/rice-clinton-terrorism/

So, whatever it is you were trying to insinuate, you should check your facts, and maybe your glasses, before you go off half-cocked the next time.

Van

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Kevin C, Westfield, NJ — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:26:41 GMT

The President showed an appaling lack of historical knowledge and context when he misguidedly drew parallels between Iraq and Vietnam. His absurd view that pulling out of Vietnam was a mistake and has had long term consequences demonstrates not only ingnorance, but also desperation in that he is trying to find any sort of excuse for our forces to continue in Iraq. We need a plan to withdraw, and a firm timetable in which to do it. The United States needs to re-affirm the ideals of democracy, and that is an inherent capacity for doing what is good and right. This occupation (yes folks, it's not a war, we toppled the government, we won, it's an occupation now) has none of these ideals: it is not good, it is not right, and it is time Washington admitted to the mistake. The US finally admitted to the mistake of going to war in Vietnam, and it only took about 10 years...it's tough to learn from history when, like the President, you are busy revising it.

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Richard, Washington State — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:27:54 GMT

Hey, I only vote Republican, so I promise to neutralize Susan's vote in 2008. Maybe even Tom's if I can vote in a Democrat controlled county like Palm Beach and maybe get my vote counted twice.

Go Barack!

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Steve A Jonesboro — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:27:57 GMT

The only word or phrase I can think of after reading this part of this report by all these geniuses is DUHHH!!!!

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Richard, Washington State — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:29:44 GMT

J. Merle:

No.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

HMT-MI — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:51:52 GMT

sorry ----Bush is only trying to salvage some honor for himself.He does not give a twit for the republicans,the democrats,the troops or the Iraqis.A self centerd smug narcistic thug.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

juan,ft lauderdale,fl — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:52:15 GMT

Floridians know all too well about the eight corrupt years of Jeb or I should say the non Zombies, progressives, Independants, Moderates, and those basically living south of Orlando. A state wide admendment was passed by we the people to mandate classroom size in our public schools;however; Jeb was caught on tape stating he could care less he was going to continue his agenda which was only giving money to private schools for rich parents to go to cathlic schools only. One other example is that Broward county (Ft. Lauderdale) voters went to the polls and voted in casino gambling in 4 parimutuals;however; the arrogant SOB said he was against it period. We had to wait until he left to implement. Terri Schaivio...it goes on and on. The Bush were obviously raised as spoiled and arrogant children becoming powerful leaders who thrived on power for power's sake with absolutely no accountability and demanded loyalty or else.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Mark Thieme — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:00:38 GMT

Ollie,
Re: the Bush report card.
It seems to me you graded on the curve. Those Fs were not merely failing grades, they were the lowest in the class, i.e., "worst president ever."
You were all too generous on the A+ you gave him for lying. Just because it is a pathological addiction on his part doesn't mean he does it well. Actually, almost no one believes a word this fool has to say... you call that A+ work?

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Don,Sammamish,Wa — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:03:00 GMT

After all we've done to them, we certainly need to assist the Iraqi people as much as possible. But no one believes we're helping anyone but Big Oil with what we're doing now. Let's think hard about the troubled people of Iraq, and what's really best for them. There may be wonderful solutions that no one's even considered, but it must be their solution. If we're honest with ourselves, we must admit that our own interests are too selfish -- and corrupt -- to have any positive influence. Once we're truly ready to help Iraq, rather than dismantle and rob it blind, we can lay the foundations for real peace and democracy in the long term.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Vik, BH — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:04:38 GMT

The case against Hillary -

...23 Senators saw clearly enough NOT to authorize the vote...Al Gore spoke out against it and saw what a mistake it was.

...Obama, even only as a State Senator, could predict this in 2002 and said: "....I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars...."

So why is it that Hillary with all her "experience" couldn't figure that out and a guy like Obama perfectly predicted the outcome?

And finally, Hillary refuses to acknowledge the fact that she made a mistake in her vote. In her own words, "...“If the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or who has said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to choose from...”

She refuses to apologize and admit that her vote was a mistake - because her pollster, Mark Penn told her not to admit it - even though, Edwards, Biden Dodd et al say that they made a mistake...

...that is why Clinton does not deserve support.

She is a panderer who has bad judgment.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Mark Thieme — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:23:04 GMT

Vik... so?

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:23:33 GMT

Gail - Please point to where Clinton has said she will not bring troops home. Phased withdrawal, timetable for withdrawal, etc. does not count, unless you want to count Obama and others as not wanting the troops home either because they have been calling for the same thing.

Irresponsibility got us into this mess, but we need to get out of it responsibly.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Jim B. Charlotte, NC — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:28:12 GMT

The war in Iraq became an internal religious war after Sadam's army was defeated. Even the Pope was afraid to tell the truth, he quoted someone over 100 years ago. The Moslem religion has nothing new but evil murder of all different. Read the book "Laughing Jesus" and you will see why Moslems not only murder non-moslems but each other. Mohammad was a mass murderer of a purely self-centered temperment. Why are we afraid to state the truth?
Withdraw and let evil slaughter evil but the innocent are murdered also. What a lack of love in the Moslem religion.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Jim B. Charlotte, NC — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:35:38 GMT

Simple, don't waste money, don't waste equipment,
don't waste soldiers, don't get between evil religious sects, Leave ASAP! AND GET BEN!

Key excerpts from the NIE report

nuanced — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:48:47 GMT

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20411171/site/newsweek/

Great article on how Bush got it all wrong about Vietnam in his speech.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Mark Thieme — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:50:58 GMT

Bush will never (as in "until hell freezes over in Iraq") get Bin-laden. There is a reason for that. Can you guess what that reason might be?

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Jim B. Charlotte, NC — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:56:45 GMT

US politicians just don't seem to learn from the past. USSR was bogged down in Afganistan. We supplied weapons to Ben to bomb them. The Russians left and now we are there with Ben bombing us. Afganistan was more than we could chew but Iraq was crazy beyond Vietnam. Buddists and Communist are not crazy or stupid but US politicians seem to be along with being greedy to make money on senseless wars.
STOP THE MADNESS! GET OUT BETWEEN INSANE RELIGIOUS
SECTS. OUR BILLIONS COULD DO GOOD ELSEWHERE. WE ARE TOLD WE ARE NOT WANTED THERE BY THE LEADERS OF IRAQ. I DO NOT STAY WHERE I AM NOT WANTED UNLESS IT IS MY HOME AND MY COUNTRY. IRAQ IS NOT!!!

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Janis Phipps, Duluth, Mn. — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:28:39 GMT

Okie doke ie.... hillaryclinton.com

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Mark Thieme — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:35:24 GMT

Well Jim, the David Broders of this world are calmly informing us that the nation is coming to a wonderful consensus, an agreement that maybe sometime we need to pull out, but not right now.
Of course this is the sensible, rational way for David Broder, et al, to write because they get paid for that kind of breathtaking insight.
So it looks like just a while longer before we actually leave. We must wait until we have achieved peace with honor.
Until then we will achieve peace with horror. That is the way our sages and "political clerisy" think for us. You know what I mean?

Key excerpts from the NIE report

T.M NC — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:45:48 GMT

It's so amazing how even you people can play politics when it comes to the lives of our sons! You know the war was based on lies and still all everyone does is jammer about it. We need to take action, one more life is one more life too much!

Why do they want our sons in Iraq? Yes, to safe guard the bases, but also to safe guard the Vatican sized US Embassy (which mind you has electric and running water a luxery Iraq has been without for a very long time) also to force the 75% oil revenue benchmark that Iraq will not agree too!

We all agree that our country needs to be more secure, who could do that better than our troops! I can't think of any other more brave and honourable to protect us!

Yes, Iraq will have their civil war it does not matter if we are there or not. If we reduce troops and leave a lower number there, we are leaving them as sitting ducks in uniform.

WA question for you who would they be training? Militia, insurgents? Please tell me! With 190,000 weapons missing and not accounted for who will our sons be training?

It is all or nothing and it's time to bring all our troops home. Iraq has already been lashing out at us, they do not want us there and they will not agree to these benchmarks! Dragging this out is insanity, we should never have been there in the first place!

Yes, it is time to write your congressional representatives and make your voices heard. Tell them you want our troops out of Iraq and will not accept a gradual draw down. A full withdrawal is the only answer anything less puts our soldiers in more danger ...

Key excerpts from the NIE report

lieberzoid — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:53:43 GMT

Nobody parses the statements of a retard. Yet we do it daily with Boy George and Dicko. What does this say about us as a nation? Retarded? Desperate? Unable to admit we are a conquered people?

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Ken LeBrun, Stony Brook, NY — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:50:45 GMT

We have 5 years of doing the equivalent of brain surgery with a chain saw in Iraq. We are still trying to achieve "victory" as if this was a high school football game. As Cololonel Jacobs, a medal of honor winner with two tours in Vietnam stated this week, Bush's speech writers comparing Vietnam with Iraq haven't bothered to check any of the facts. We now have a group of special interest Republicans funding a campaign ad to continue the war by continuing to mislead the public. What we need to know is the extent to which they are profiting for their loyalty to a group of Vietnam era draft dodgers. And lastly, the Maliki/Shiite govt is playing us for suckers, frustrating any reconciliation until the Americans leave. Then they will subdue or slaughter the Sunnis, backed by Siite Iran and Iran's new partners - Russia and China. But if the Shiites slaughter the Sunnis, it will remove the threat of a Sunni/Al Quaeda link in Iraq.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Ken LeBrun, Stony Brook, NY — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:50:48 GMT

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Ken LeBrun, Stony Brook, NY — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:50:50 GMT

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Dan Burns — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:56:51 GMT

We're just protecting our country from future threats to us. Al Qaida-terrorists;Syria-terrorist country; Iran-terrorist country; North Korea-terrorist country; Cuba-communists; Venezuela. When we finish in Iraq we have a lot more countries to free. But are we protecting ourselves or antaganizing countries that we don't see as having a way of life we approve of. We can't save the world. Let's try to solve our own problems in our own country and only help those countries who ask for our help, not ones we are trying to force ourselves on.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Gene, Oklahoma City, OK — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 03:41:45 GMT

It's a jaded, crooked, dishonest congress, but it's the only kind we'll ever have, as long as only the greedy/rich can even afford to run for high office, and business giants are permitted to write their own greed-based laws. All we need is one more so-called leader like the one we have now and the sellout would be complete.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Gene, Oklahoma City, OK — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 04:33:17 GMT

Well, it's starting to look like BuSh is going to be able to B-S- his way out of responsibility for this war, just like he's managed to weasel his way out of responsibility for everything he's bungled over he past six years; we can fully expect yet another stall tactic, come September, and so on and so on... on.....

Key excerpts from the NIE report

keith derby, yorktown, va — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:00:48 GMT

This is my first visit to the comments section. I was amazed to see the large number of comments critical of our President. You left wingers have forgotten that Iraq is the front against Islamic extremists. You never consider the consequences of leaving before Iraq is stable. Your hate has blinded your objectivity. You can not stand the thought of winning this war because it would only vindicate President Bush. You are the only hope the terrorists have. They can not win in battle. Islamic extremists have captured the hearts of the liberal left. Go get a Koran and start memorizing it you bunch of morons.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:42:31 GMT

".....J. Merle:

No.
Richard, Washington State....."

That's right Richard, why should you care, eh?
You're not there fighting, and none of your kids are there either,
In fact I'd be willing to bet you don't even know anyone who's gone to Iraq, do you?
Typical COWARDLY republiCANT garbage!
*****************************************************
GET OUR PEOPLE OUT OF IRAQ NOW!

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Mark Thieme — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:28:00 GMT

Hey Keith Derby,
Nice to hear from you!

Key excerpts from the NIE report

l.nee, tullahoma, tenn. — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:53:12 GMT

Carrie misreads history. Our forefathers sprang from a historic tradition based on religious, if not political, commonality. Iraq is lines drawn on a map without regard to who was contained therein and has a history of acsencion by assasination. It was held together at the point of Sadam's guns and we are trying to do the same thing.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Richard, Washington State — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:53:35 GMT

J. Merle:

I care a great deal. You're a presumptuous idiot to conclude otherwise. I'm different than you in how I look at things which is something you'll just have to accept. I don't just fall into lockstep with you just because you think you have a lock on truth, virtue and righteous indignation.

No, I'm not in Iraq and neither are my kids. They, like other adult men and women (including those who join the military) make their own decisions and like millions of others, including children of Democrats, did not choose to volunteer. So, what?

This past Sunday in church I sat behind an Iraq war vet, a purple heart recipient. He was a classmate of one of my sons and I know his family. They are COWARDLY republiCANT garbage, too. That young man, if he wasn't as classy as I know him to be, would despise you.

The man I work in the same office with, a Vietnam vet(who is also COWARDLY republiCANT garbage)with a bronze star and two purple hearts, recently presided over the funeral of a young local man whose marriage ceremony he performed in his capacity as a deacon in our church.

In fact, Merle, isn't it likely that a majority of those serving in Iraq are COWARDLY republiCANT garbage?

So, I've answered your questions as civilly and truthfully as I can.

But I won't be writing my congressman as you demand because I don't agree with you, and in fact, I have no respect for you.

You J. Merle, are a PUSILLANIMOUS piece of demoCRAP vermin and a disgrace to the good Democrats I count as my friends and neighbors, despite our reasoned and CIVIL disagreement on politics.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Mark Thieme — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 19:35:34 GMT

Richard,
Nice to hear from you!

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Richard, Washington State — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:00:40 GMT

Van:

Let me explain. It seems that most discussions about the myriad circumstances that led up to the "failures" that kept us from preventing 9/11 and other prior terrorist attacks attributed to Bin Laden and/or Al Qaida, usually end up with one side or another blaming the failures on the other's administration or president. Most divorced people are more reasonable about recognizing why their marriage failed.

I believe that 9/11 was the fault of Bin Laden and the terrorists. I believe that events, decisions, actions(or inaction) politics, personal beliefs, political expediency, complacency, incompetence, bureaucracy, territorialism, agency infighting, presidential missteps, military missteps and intelligence missteps combined with the human factor and conspired to create the conditions under which the murderers could be successful.

As mentioned already, the tendency of our country seems mostly toward placing blame, almost always on the current leadership or prior leadership for political reasons, than solving problems.

What I was saying, and I certainly can see why it wasn't evident in a one sentence throw-away, is that all of the aforementioned factors developed over a long period of time and shouldn't be laid at the feet of a Democrat or Republican or a Clinton or a Bush.

My brief, and rhetorical, commen simply meant to convey that. I was also talking about the report itself, not the New York Times article. I don't use the NYT as a source because I don't trust them to be impartial. You could feel the same way about any of mine.

I don't blame Clinton or Bush for 9/11. Bin Laden and his murdering compatriots (talk about dittoheads, huh?) were solely responsible and certainly successful in their own eyes. They wanted to commit cold-blooded murder and found a spectacular, one-time way to do it.

That we failed to stop them (assuming we had pro-active opportunities to do so) can be accounted for by years, maybe decades, of past actions from both Republican and Democrat administrations. They are all accountable for a portion of whatever failures made the 9/11 murderers' task easier.

Your documentary support, as well as many other sources, actually come together when read objectively and considered over a span of time demonstrates just that.

I'm not blaming 9/11 on Clinton for political purposes, or like some people (I'm not implying that you are one of them)who hate Bush so much that they think the world began on January 22, 2001.

The CIA report simply shows that conditions that were not conducive to effective CIA actions existed for some time.

Mostly I'm dismayed over the past several years of political "discourse" that seeks to find either Clinton or Bush at fault for the actions of the 9/11 murderers. The murderers certainly didn't care which President was in office in 1993, 2000, or September of 2001.

Certainly I can see why my one or two lines were interpreted as "blaming Bill Clinton". But there's also nothing in the CIA report to suggest that previous administrations contributed nothing to whatever vulnerabilities made us susceptible.

The first 8 months of the Bush administration were no exception, but neither did they represent total culpability for circumstances long in the making.

I'd like to think we could all agree on that and do away with an atmosphere that prompts knee-jerk one liners like mine that are immediately interpreted as placing blame in one little politically motivated pigeon hole.

I'm not hopeful, though, so I expect my natural tendencies toward sarcasm will continue to be in evidence when responding to the general tone of most of the folks who post here.

And finally, Van, I have yet to see anything you have supplied as documentary support that I haven't seen and read before. Like you and many others I choose individually by virtue of whatever forces have formed me, to see things from my own perspective while digesting virtually the same facts. So, your documentary support, while helpful, doesn't really prove anything. It is, like you seem to be fond of saying, simply "ammunition".

And I thought the Republicans were into war metaphors.

I know there are those of you who don't believe Republicans think for themselves, but if that were true we'd all be Democrats, wouldn't we?

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Mark Thieme — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:14:13 GMT

Dear Richard,

In answer to your last swipe at van: yes to the superficialis and no the profundus.

Think fast, Richard... time's up!

You know you are a Republican when you automatically assume big words you don't know are pornographic.

Caught you didn't I?

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Mark Thieme — Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:47:04 GMT

You know you are a Republican when you think Abraham Lincoln would be one now.

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Mark Thieme — Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:51:01 GMT

You know you are a Republican when you compare George Bush (either or both) to: Truman, FDR, Lincoln, Gandhi or Jesus.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Mark Thieme — Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:59:36 GMT

You know you are a Republican when you can actually imagine Mike Huckabee as President of the United States of America.

Finally... you know you are a republican when you LOL at those email forwards floating around in the Internet ether which portray Hillary Clinton as: a witch, a bitch, a prostitute, the Antichrist, the victim of torture, murder, mutilation and/or all of the above.

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Mark Thieme — Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:47:12 GMT

...OK, only two more, and then... no matter how you beg, no more...

You know you are a Republican if you think Senator Warner of Virginia is unpatriotic for advocating an end to the debacle of Iraq.

You know you are a Republican if you think there is anything at all left to "win" in Iraq.

After all these clues, if you do not know you are a Republican, perhaps you are at that dark place at the end of the great tunnel where the sun don't ever shine.

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Richard, Washington State — Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:29:14 GMT

You know you're not a comedian when your material is stale, the bathroom humor is unoriginal, the overall thieme sucks and it's not funny.

But you do indeed know you're a Democrat.

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Mark Thieme — Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:00:55 GMT

Who was kidding, Dick?

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Richard, Washigton State — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:03:11 GMT

Mark: Ditto

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Mark Thieme — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:27:09 GMT

Dick: Now that is funny!

Didn't the republican philosopher Limbaugh coin that term and start a whole movement, as it were?

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Richard, Washington State — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:44:22 GMT

No, Mark, he didn't. I remember using that term as far back as my pre-adolescent days which pre-date Limbaugh's appearance on the scene by many years. It was often used interchangeably with "Xerox" and "copy". The movement was in full gear depositing it's effluent on liberal targets well before the introduction of the "ditto" as used on his program.

It was actually Limbaugh's audience that borrowed the term and put it to use, with the prime objective of saving time while conveying the utmost in admiration for the host. It's code, Mark.

He's also credited with coining the term "Feminazi", but he really appropriated it from some college professor somewhere. He has never claimed to have coined it, though others erroneously maintain so.

Happy to have a chance to clear that up. Any other questions? Your knowledge storehouse seems a bit light on Limbaugh.

Finally, Mark, that little subtle transition to calling me "Dick" is just too clever! Must have been a subliminable suggestion from some of the other brains on this blog. Apparently Dick has more appeal to you.

Perhaps I could start signing "Rick" and you could have the same effect with just one more letter!

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Mark Thieme — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 01:32:16 GMT

ick,
Thanks for being there. Every night I come home from the office and there you are... holding on to the last word. It makes life worth the living, don't it?

The Limbaugh stuff is pretty arcane for me, so once again you are way right, I don't get it. Spent a little time in Sikeston, MO (just down the road from "Cape") back in the 60s, and yeah, I ran into him. Never would have predicted that anyone would ever listen to him about anything. In fact... well this isn't about facts anyway, so I'll just say that he was not a real popular guy... but good for him. Ditto you.

Do much appreciate the educational tips though. This "code" sounds interesting. Maybe that's why your posts read like some obscure aboriginal dialect. Wish I knew more about Neanderthals... but with your help I am beginning to catch on.

Anyway, I have to get back to work tonight right after a late dinner. Maybe we can talk again tomorrow. Thanks for your kindness ick.

vaya con diablo,
MT (have fun with that...)

Key excerpts from the NIE report

Mark Thieme — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:10:13 GMT

ick,

are you still there?