Is the '08 race over?

Pat, Boston, MA — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:46:34 GMT

Mark, isn't the window closing as far as time in this election? Regardless of polls, aren't we going to basically know the nominees by February? The primaries are so early.

Like others here, I hope we see a lot of polls in the upcoming weeks showing which candidate stands where in the pollings for the first three states in the primary - Iowa, NH and SC. Aren't these the really critical states we need to watch?

Is the '08 race over?

ki houston — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:53:07 GMT

VAN , here you go , do your thang

Is the '08 race over?

Blue state baby — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:54:46 GMT

The 08' race is over! Hillary/Edwards wins over Rudy/Romney, by a 3 to 1 margin. Bush faces criminal charges. The "Gay Old Party" will never be the same. Jerry has a nervous break down and his brother waynetx continues reading fairy tales.

Is the '08 race over?

vanreuter, NY NY — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:57:48 GMT

Ron Fournier is also the author of the recent, widely circulated,

"Clinton a Drag? Dems Fear Her Negatives",
story from August 12th, 2007.

I'm not saying the guy has an agenda, but he sure seems to be saying that himself.

Interesting side note;

Senator Clinton has held, or increased her leads in most of the polls since Fournier's article on 8/12.

I can't wait for his stories on the other major candidates.

Van

Is the '08 race over?

David, Chattanooga, Tn — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:08:16 GMT

EDWARDS 08!

Is the '08 race over?

Sara, Cedar Rapids, Iowa — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:10:23 GMT

Pat, Boston, MA

The polls in Iowa will be meaningless, not only because the polling sample isn't restricted to verified caucus goers, a very small % of eligible Iowans, and the number of registered Democrats who attend the caucus has never exceeded 20%, but also most Iowans decide late. In 04 caucus exit polls showed that 42% of those who attended the caucus made up their mind in the last week before the caucus, and only 30% had made up their mind more than a month prior to the caucus (a large % of those were the ones committed to Dean). If you look at the polls in 03 and until two days before the caucus, and you believed those polls you would conclude that Kerry was going to get killed. As late as mid January Kerry was in 4th. The only poll he lead in was the Des Moines Register poll two days before the caucus, other polls released that day and the day before had Kerry 2nd and 3rd. Not only did Kerry win, he won by 12% more than the support shown in the only poll he led in. Bottom line Iowa was wide open then although you wouldn't have known from the media coverage and its wide open now. It is not a 3 candidate race.

Is the '08 race over?

Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:16:46 GMT

I really don't think this was shot against anyone---Geesh!!! WE get it--You like Hillary Clinton--lots of people do. He's right this race is far from over. I think he may be talking more about McCain than he is anyone else. With the events of the last few days I personally could imagine a scenario in which are two nominees are Romney and Obama!!! To somewhat squeaky clean nominees in political terms

Is the '08 race over?

BionicWoman, Tucson, Arizona — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:22:24 GMT

The difference between Kerry's run and now is that its not the usual bunch of boring white guys in dark suits.

Many, many more people and different types of people are paying attention.

Furthermore, Obama and Edwards are in the way of anyone gaining traction because they are constantly pulling the spotlight to themselves.

Hillary is a magnet for attention.

So, neither Dodd, nor any of the rest of the nominal candidates has a hope in hades of breaking out.

Is the '08 race over?

Pat, Boston, MA — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:47:12 GMT

Lewis, I'm thinking along the same lines as you. Romney/Obama.

Sara, thanks. No one I talk with wants to vote for Hillary Clinton, yet the polls are telling me something entirely different. And if she continues to lead in the polls, I think that perception alone will be enough to persuade democrats to vote for her.

Perhaps you're right.

Is the '08 race over?

Joe, DC — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:51:59 GMT

Messrs. Murray and Fournier: If what your saying is that Dodd will win the Dem. nomination, just tell me how much you want to bet and where I lay my money down. By the way, if you really wanted to offer some valuable insight, the key development here is not that the firefighters endorsed Dodd. Rather, the key development is that they did not endorse Edwards. If they had, then you might have actually had a point.

Is the '08 race over?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:07:10 GMT

Joe - The point being made was that around this time in 2003, Kerry (who was thought to be out of it) picked up a key endorsement. Now it is Dodd who has picked up the key endorsement. I don't think they are saying Dodd is going to be the nominee but more that there is no telling what could happen in the next few months.

And as Sara said, Iowans tend to deliberate for quite a while before making their decision. I'm sure everyone thinks I am a die-hard Hillary supporter. I'm not even sure I will caucus for her. I think she gets a lot of undeserved criticism in comparison with the other candidates, and I respect and admire her. But if I think another candidate is better, then I will throw my support in his direction.

Is the '08 race over?

BionicWoman, Tucson, AZ — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:23:57 GMT

Hey, Pat in Boston, you are wrong. Everyone I know is supporting Hillary. You need to widen your circle.

There is a difference between ideology and reality. Dreamers hope for a pure leader to inspire. Realists just want to get something positive accomplished.

Is the '08 race over?

kenn"kiss me once shame on me kiss bush twice shame on himO — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:24:28 GMT

Macain kissed his chance away giving Bush the big hug and kiss during the 04 election after what rove and bush had done to him independants and demos saw he had no backbone to stand up to the bully .He could have been running as vice president right now if bush wasnt an ass and macains ego wouldnt let him approach kerry ,so long funny man

Is the '08 race over?

Tommy, Denver, CO — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:52:33 GMT

Is the '08 race over?

PJ — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:01:21 GMT

I agree with bionic woman, Hillary gets my support.

Is the '08 race over?

Becky — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:55:51 GMT

It is really horrible to think that most of you are all bleeding heart liberals. Why would you support Hillary or Obama. At least I believe he is a family man. We had a Clinton in the White House once - do we really want a repeat performance. Not me. Do I think that Bush is doing a great job - not especially - but right now this is what is happening - he can't get re-elected so what is everyone being so hard on him. Look at what we have to pick from in '08.

Is the '08 race over?

Stan, Roebuck,SC — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:58:28 GMT

God help us and the whole United States if either Clinton,Edwards or Obama win the 2008 election.

Is the '08 race over?

Alice Stevens, Portland OR — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:11:47 GMT

<Hillary is a magnet for attention. >

She's a magnet all right, for corruption.

Is the '08 race over?

HMT-MI — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:46:53 GMT

I am so happy with the Democratic candidates I could vote for any of them.Now if I had to pick a republican Ron Paul would be the guy--except for his stand on roe v-wade.metal hangar time for the american women---lived through it once never again

Is the '08 race over?

Tom, Westfield, Massachusetts — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:08:54 GMT

I don't haul any axes to grind right now, anyway, but from what I see, I'd say Romney is the "presumptive" Republican nominee (and believe me, as a Mass. resident I was disappointed he just ended up making my native state the butt of jokes) because Giuliani is too flaky and too old-looking, and Thompson too shallow, though I hope Huckabee comes along strong. On the Dems side, I don't think Obama has enough bulldog in him, and his neck is too thin, so I think Hillary is going to take him to the cleaners. So look for Romney vs. Hillary and Romney pulling it off in a squeaker. He's not much farther from Bush on Iraq than Hillary is, so that's going to hurt Hillary.

Is the '08 race over?

Keith, Pittsburgh, PA — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:59:09 GMT

Fred Thompson/Ron Paul 2008 and all the way to the White House!!!

Is the '08 race over?

anne frank — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 01:11:30 GMT

Steelworkers endorse Edwards! WooHoo!
Carpenters and Joiners endorsed today too.

So - look for more haircut stories from the CORPORATE media that hates unions.

Is the '08 race over?

diane — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 02:58:05 GMT

Chuck Todd, himself, said the polls are not much to take to any real seriousness right now. I suspect the focus on polling is to fill the time on news shows.
Also, look for a real explosion from Obama as we go into fall. maybe after Oprah

Is the '08 race over?

toris — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:19:04 GMT

Poll is nothing but a gabbage. Electorate will make up their mind in the last week of the election. Joe Biden is right when he said people haven't made up their mind. There is still chance for Obama, Biden and Richardson come Jannuary.

Is the '08 race over?

jerry/corpus christi texas — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:50:23 GMT

I guess Hillary has all the chinese money that she needs to run all the way in 08.

Is the '08 race over?

Lucky J, Houston Texas — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:55:06 GMT

while it is too early to announce the tickets, I can only hope that Barrack can overcome the spell comrade clinton (sorry she does not deserve to be capitalized) has over the people. We need new leaders with new ideas not more of the same partsian politics that has handcuffed this country for too long. At least Sen. Obama is looking for a balanced input to his presidency something no other candidate in either party has brought up.

Is the '08 race over?

Straight Up / /AZ — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:08:39 GMT

If you have any respect for America,, You better Vote GOP!! I will not have a filthy two face paper Hanging painted clown for a President. This Painted clown is self serving and demands to be president!! A liar """OPEN FACED LIAR"" to set in front of the camera,s and say she knew nothing about a felon collecting money for her war chest!! She knows HSU for over twenty years,, """I didn't Know what he was doing"""LIAR BIT@H!! Scandal goes where ever she and her scum old man follows!!
We don't need a goose stepper and a whorelet in the White House!!!!

Is the '08 race over?

straight up / az — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:24:14 GMT

The Filth and the immoral proxy these two Clintons share, The shame abounds common sense,, Their content of self serving agenda aleardy laid before you as thses two squander your monies to buy the office of the President. What bafoons America plays this gender card!!! This Painted clown would sell your soul to feed her ego!!

Is the '08 race over?

Budd — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:47:02 GMT

The worst and biggest mistake the Democrats can make in the upcoming election is to place Obama on the ticket.'WHITE MALES" are NOT going to vote for him.He is BLACK.If Hillary wins the nomination it will be a very close election "IF" she wins for the same reason."WHITE" Machochistic---Super inflated Egotistical "MALES" are not going to vote for her.

Is the '08 race over?

Bill Clintonian, Bountiful, Utah — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:16:38 GMT

She will be the next President. Get use to the idea.

Is the '08 race over?

Kia Ora, Christchurch, New Zealand — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:42:15 GMT

I am an American who lives in New Zealand and just returned form Europe. There is a very strong anti-American feeling everywhere due to Bush and the Republican crusade over the last seven years. Any Democrat will do, with a strong level of support internationally for Clinton.

Is the '08 race over?

Pete Aldred, Anniston, AL — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:52:53 GMT

Why dont all the Democrats except Hillary and Obama give it up and why dont all the Republicans except Guiliani and .......well why dont all the Republicans just give up!

Is the '08 race over?

JPJ, Boston, MA — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:19:34 GMT

Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton would not be a healthy development for our democracy, two families in power for over 20 years. Barack Obama represents the future, not the past like Hillary. Lets move forward.

Is the '08 race over?

Pat, Boston, MA — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:23:22 GMT

Becky, what the heck is a bleeding heart liberal? We're American citizens, trying to put an intelligent, honest, progressive candidate in the White House in 2009.

We're just thinking out loud, listening to each other's opinions of who we believe may be the best president.

What's with the name calling? This is a serious decision for most of us.

Is the '08 race over?

ki houston — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:36:41 GMT

becky , I would take Gravel over bush

Is the '08 race over?

Russ. Seattle, Wa — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:12:52 GMT

I guess we as Americans haven't figured it out yet. I thought this whole Bush Administration would of taught us that, our conventional "Vote within party lines" thinking was out of wack. I still see a lot of folks who are simply going to vote Republican because that is what they personally identify with, and same with the Democrat voters. Maybe it's time to break out of the mold a little bit, take a look at the other side. And maybe we can actually solve some of the this political mess.

*exits soap box

Is the '08 race over?

ki houston — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:13:12 GMT

BionicWoman, Tucson, AZ , maby you need to widen your cirle , you know get some diversity .

Is the '08 race over?

HOT DAM — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:26:56 GMT

Jesus was a bleeding heart liberal and hands and feet oh and his forehead.....
Jesus loves Hillary and so do I, we bleeding hearts are the WAY, save your souls vote for SENATOR CLINTON.

Is the '08 race over?

Bernie B — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:29:23 GMT

As an Independent voter, I'm bothered by the bias shown in these "polls" that are often so inaccurate that it's not laughable. Ron Paul has shown consistent strong numbers yet the media ignores him as the leaders of the Republican party would rather forget about the guy. Problem is, their constituency is showing strong buzz/support.

I may or may not vote for the guy, but to ignore his presence in the Primary shows the ignorance of your polling.

Is the '08 race over?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:31:53 GMT

Russ - I have voted outside party lines before. However, I will not vote for a Republican for president, at least not in 2008. The way I see it, the only chance we have of getting out of Iraq is for the Democrats to get control of the WH. Otherwise, it's going to be the same old schtick that we have now with the veto and not enough votes to override it. There are things that need to be cleaned up from the Bush Administration, and my fear is that another Republican sitting in the top spot would prevent that from happening.

Aside from which, I don't even LIKE the Republican nominees this time around.

Is the '08 race over?

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:35:48 GMT

Becky--Thank you for your concern about the condition of our hearts. You are obviously a compassionate conservative.
I will support Hillary, Obama, Edwards or whoever the Democratic nominee is because they will offer a clear alternative to the course we have followed for the past eight years. I agree with you. George Bush has not done an especially good job at anything in his Presidency even though he has had a rubber stamp republican congress to approve his every move. He has mired us in the deadly swamp of Iraq and drained our treasury on a war of choice that is not returning any benifits, just flag covered coffins. He and the Republicans have lost pallets of 100 dollar bills in Iraq totaling in the billions while watching an American city be deystroyed and placing the plight of it's American citizens behind that of the alleged goal of establishing a democracy for people who don't even want to be a nation. He has tipped the supreme Court to the conservative side there-by giving republicans effective control of all three branches of Government during his tenure and what has he been able to accomplish except for the poisiness division of this nation? He has suspended Habeaus Corpus, the corner stone of all liberty for the sake of safety thus insuring that we as a nation deserve neither. He has turned the Justice department into his own private law firm and political hatchet squad destroying it's credibility and causing the hemmorage of generations of DOJ legal experience as the professionals leave in disgust. In short Becky, George bush, aided and abetted by the Republican Party AND some Democrats who should have opposed his every move, has made a huge mess, to put it kindly. Because of this I think that we are not being hard enough on him. I hope that history will paint him in he harsh light of the reality that he created.
And so I ask you, how could you support anybody that aided and abbetted this un-natural disastor of a man? Why would you support the party that aimed this loose cannon and discharged it in the face of this nation? Look at what we have to pick from in '08?
I did.
I see nothing but competence and energy on the Democratic side and I see nothing but the people who gave us George bush on the other. It truly is a no brainer.

Is the '08 race over?

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:40:41 GMT

How the heck are the polls still placing Clinton and Gulliani at the top. No one I talk to even remotely supports either of the candidates, yet they remain at the top. Something seem a little out of wack here. I agree with Pat and Lewis... Obama and Romney will win the nominations.

Tommy, Denver, CO (Sent Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:52 PM)

This seems to bear repeating:

Op-ed: Clarence Page on 'birds of a . . .feather'

BY CLARENCE PAGE | Clarence Page is a syndicated Chicago Tribune columnist based in Washington. James Klurfeld is off.
August 24, 2007

There they go again. I'm listening to a political call-in program on the radio, and a caller says he doesn't believe the major opinion polls. "And everyone I've talked to feels like I do."

Wow. Somebody break the news to Gallup, Harris, Roper, Zogby and all those other pollsters. They're all washed up. Politicians and major corporations don't need to keep spending gazillions of dollars on polls and focus groups. All they have to do is talk to this guy's pals.

One of my pet peeves is when people don't stop to realize the whole world might not be thinking about or experiencing things the same way they and their friends do. In politics, economics and other current affairs, people often are influenced less by facts than by their friends. Increasingly, sociologists are finding that, whether we intend to or not, birds of a political feather flock together.
(read the whole article here)

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-opklu245343325aug24,0,2597236.story

Polls DO mean something, to the candidates, their organizations, their financial contributors, to name a few. The reason why the polls don't mean anything to some is because, well, their guy is behind. That logic is much more suspect than the polls.

Van

Is the '08 race over?

Pat, Boston, MA — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:48:41 GMT

JPJ, I agree with you as far as the Bush/Clinton dynasty. However, MSNBC showed a poll recently which drew a conclusion that about 75% of the voters in this country don't care about the Bush/Clinton/
Bush/Clinton empire.

I found that a little troubling to be honest. But I think people believe Senator Clinton is really tough and she has shown, to her credit, that she has no intention of taking a back seat to the Karl Rove's of the world.

People really like to beat her up. Yet as I watch and listen to her, I'm finding that in many ways, whether she's elected or not, that she really is quite remarkable.

She's not perfect. Which is something she has in common with her rivals in this campaign.

Is the '08 race over?

Marcus, Chicago — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:56:55 GMT

I'm a white male, and I'D vote for Obama. Guess there goes THAT theory...

The worst place to be right now is as front runner, if only because after a certain point in time, you become 'old', and people start looking for something else. Comes down to the wire, and people will really start to wonder if Clinton is that interesting (she's not) and if Rudy G really has anything resembling character (not much), and start looking further down the ticket. Obama and Edwards will BOTH make it tough for Clinton, and don't be surprised to see McCain resurgent (if eight years too late).

Is the '08 race over?

marilyn millsaps gastonia, n.c. — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:00:25 GMT

united we stand devided we fall,as I continue to watch the canidates verbaly assault each other which in turn encourages the voters to go likewise is there any wonder we are losing our grip? WE all have a choice and I believe we can make it with just a little bit of class and integratity.The canidates ought to be leading us in that direction.How are they to work with other countries when they can't
work with each other.In my opinion a little prayer every now and then would serve this country a great deal better.We should be sick of all the nasty nonsence.We have our boys in a country losing their lives to show people a better way to live. Most of them pray and we pray for them but continue to attack one another. WHY?

Is the '08 race over?

PJ — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:26:28 GMT

What does "bleeding heart" mean anyway? Maybe, caring about the downtrodden? Isn't that what Jesus advocated? Maybe if the so called religous right had REALLY been Christians, we wouldn't be in such a mess today. Yea, my heart bleeds, when I see what George W Bush and is neo con buddies have done to my country, and to the world.

Is the '08 race over?

Voting American — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:26:59 GMT

The Clinton's were scum bags then & they're scum bags still!

Is the '08 race over?

PJ — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:35:05 GMT

S.U. // Az said: "If you have any respect for America,, You better Vote GOP"....wow, or what, you'll send Guido after me. I have infinite respect for the ideas upon which this country was founded. Its why the neo cons must be dumped. Phonies every one.

Is the '08 race over?

Kathy, Anacortes, WA — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:38:38 GMT

A couple of things: I see an awful lot of Democratic kissing but I don't see a fair and balanced assortment of Republicans. I don't profess to be either party. I vote for the person who shares my values and morals the closest. To vote for someone who is willing to "kill" a baby with the abortion law and call it freedom of speech is wrong. To vote for someone who has been in a scandal from governorship through the Presidency is wrong. Just because it is the other spouse running for President, doesn't clean the slate. I am going to vote for the person who values family (between a man and a woman marriage), who values life from conception (yes! Conception: it has been proven they are ALIVE), and who values the one and only God that brought our pilgrims to these great shores in the first place. May God have mercy on your souls.

Is the '08 race over?

PJ — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:55:46 GMT

Marilyn: Thanks for your post. I agree with you about working together, and about the power of prayer. And yes our boys are dying in Iraq. Most I'm sure are very sincere, some have not been. Have we shown them a better way to live? Have you seen the facts on how many children now go to school in Iraq, very few, the majority do not have clean water to drink, the basic needs. Billions of dollars for reconstruction has gone somewhwere...??? Our voting in '08 needs to say that we're tired of the way things have been done. We can't show some one else how to live till we figure it out ourselves. (Take the speck out of our own eye). We have a corrupt gov't that needs to be flushed out.

Is the '08 race over?

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:33:36 GMT

Kathy, Anacortes, WA--This is a secular country and will remain a secular country. The day it becomes a theocracy of any flavor is the day that the great experiment ends in failure. Worship whatever you want to in peace in your home, in your church and out on the street corner if you choose. Don't force your choice on me through law. Stay out of my children's face in the SECULAR PUBLIC SCHOOLS that we all share. Don't tread on me!

Is the '08 race over?

Sara, Cedar Rapids, Iowa — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:36:31 GMT

Bionic Women: Of course this race is different than 04, but the fact that the candidates are different has nothing to do with the fact that most people are not closely following the race, haven't made up their minds, etc. That said I see one major similarity between 03/04 and 07/08. In 03 Dean had a great organization, was "on fire" nationally, and attracted great crowds. Not Obama size, but much larger than Hillary's crowds unless she brings Bill. Those people who caucused for Dean had committed to him early, and they were ardent supporters. They didn't just see him as the best, but as a savior (only a slight exaggeration). Their support for him was almost blind devotion. They did not want to hear anything about electability issues, etc. Dean's support, on the ground was large early on, but he was not able to attract additional supporters in the fall and early winter. Most of Dean's supporters did not leave him by January, the idea that the "Dated Dean, Married Kerry" bumper sticker represented a true phenomenon among Dean supporters before the caucus is wrong. The Dean supports did back Kerry after Kerry won the nomination, but most of his early supporters stayed with him through out the caucus. The 82% of Iowa Democrat caucus goers who had not supported Dean by September had already rejected him as their candidate. Some were vehemently anti-Dean and mad that his supporters didn't understand he had no choice, and would take the party down, others were less angry, but still rejected him as an electable candidate. Pundits have come up with many reasons for Dean's poor 3rd place showing. Most are totally off (the main explanation was Gephardt and Dean's negative ads pulled them both down-WRONG) The ads didn't cause Dean votes, he had already reached close to his maximum level of support early. There is a parallel between Dean and Hillary. Hillary has a lot of support, much of her support is totally committed. Many view her as larger than life etc. She is well organized and her campaign is working hard, but there was a reason why one of her top aides suggested in a memo that was later leaked, that she should by-pass Iowa. Most Iowa caucus goers place a high priority on electability. 82% of Iowa caucus goers determined by 1/19/04 that Dean was not electable, this determination was made as Iowans got to know the candidate. Most of us had never heard of him until the spring of 03. Many who found him unelectable felt he would be a great President, and personally agreed with him and liked him, few people hated or disliked him personally. Like Dean a very large percent of Iowa Democrat caucus goers do not believe Hillary can win the general election, and they have (and will reject her for that reason), and there is a small percent that really can't stand her. However the small % of Iowa caucus goers that literally hate Hillary is greater than the handful of people who couldn't stomach Dean prior to the caucus. Unlike Dean who came into Iowa with a clean slate, people have formed their opinions about Hillary long ago.

I do not hate Hillary Clinton. In my office is a picture taken in late September of 02 at a fund raiser for Dr. Juliane Thomas (who was running for congress)at Hillary's home in DC. And I have an autographed picture of Hillary holding my daughter in 1996 the night before the election. I don't think she is the best qualified, or most experienced candidate, but I believe that she would be a great President IF she were ever President. However I do not believe she can win the general election. She has the highest negatives of any candidate this early in the process. Even her biggest backer Terry McAulf (sp) admitted on hardball that she can gain some in her positives, but that negatives are very hard to change. The election is decided not by partisans, but by non-partisans. Unfortunately Hillary's negatives with the non-partisan electorate is very high, and the chance the she could be elected is very remote. Hillary supporters don't want to accept, or even consider this, but if they were able to analyze the race in a non-emotional dispassionate manner, they would understand reality. The fact that Hillary is not electable is mostly unfair. Most of the negative opinion of Hillary is unfair. It drove me nuts in 92, prior to a single White House scandal (travel gate, White Water, Rose law firm billing records, etc.)how many people hated her. What was so infuriating was how many people who hated Hillary thought so highly of Elizabeth Dole. Every quality or characteristic that they gave for hating Hillary, was as much if not more prevalent in Dole. Unlike Dole who married a divorced man, and put her career ahead of having a family. Hillary had a child, and by all accounts in 92 (and since then) she has been a devoted mother, and did a great job raising her daughter. But you couldn't reason with these people they hated her, and those feelings were deep. Since 1992 the number of people who do not like Hillary has grown, and if she is the nominee she will be attacked like never seen before, she will bring out a huge turn out, and most likely the next President will be a Republican.

You're also wrong about Obama and Edwards being in the way of anyone else getting traction, you are right that Hillary is a magnet for attention, but you seem to ignore that magnet attracts both good and bad attention. There is a reason why the GOP's most successful fund raising campaigns feature Hillary Clinton. The national MSM and to a lesser degree the local media report far more heavily on Hillary, how, they did this with Dean also. At the Live strong forum the crowd was far more receptive to Edwards than Hillary. Even Kucinich had louder applause than Hillary, despite their being 20% fewer people by the time he spoke. Iowa will make its decision based upon what is happening on the ground not in the media.

I agree that Dodd is unlikely to break out of Iowa. However, Biden has a real chance to do so.

Is the '08 race over?

David DeVillier Baton Rouge Louisiana — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:38:10 GMT

Thank you Gary in Montana.

Is the '08 race over?

Class Warrior, D.C. — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:53:24 GMT

It's STILL a lock for Hillary, and when the Republican Swiftboaters League sink her candidacy and a shrub clone is in the White House, the STUPID Dems will stand around scratching their heads like they did the past two elections (and did all through the '80s) and wonder what went wrong?

Is the '08 race over?

Mark Thieme — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:21:49 GMT

The "poll figures" cited here by some of the more politically pious are little more than window dressing. Merely quoting them or referring to them demonstrates one's amateur standing.
The polls that campaigns use are private, expensive, reflecting trends and tweaks that most in the public never see.
The Rasmussen poll is not a player. And neither are those the news mags screech from their covers.

This board is an "opinion" board actually read by various campaigns for "opinion" sampling. All this silly Rasmussen stuff is just a distraction and virtually useless.

But, whatever floats your boat...

Is the '08 race over?

Mark Thieme — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:25:51 GMT

Gary: AMEN!

Is the '08 race over?

Union Baby, Tennessee — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:29:10 GMT

Kathy - are you talking about those who see marriage between one man and one woman(that is really the only thing recognized in the Bible - no second living spouse), if that is the case, your side is running pretty short on options. At least the 3 top tier Democratic candidates are still married to their original spouses (and that means something to me), they are not "living" with other people that the law lets them use as a tax deduction. Even if some thing Bill & Hillary's marriage is a sham, at least they still are in it til death do us party, not til divorce do us part. And Elizabeth and John Edwards are the prime example of a true and loving marriage.
On a personal level I don't belive in abortion (so thankful I never had the medical need for one), but you obviously have never had to witness the choice some parents have to make when they find out their child will be deformed for life, very likely could outlive them, and there is no one who will take care of that child after they are dead. Not an easy one, so please don't try to make it one. By the way, you and me - the taxpayers are the folks who pay for those children born with special needs who outlive their parents. Are you one who does not want to have healthcare for all?
Life is wonderful, quality of life is precious.

Is the '08 race over?

Mark Thieme — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:54:31 GMT

My final comment here for awhile is a response to Class Warrior.

I hesitate to write this because it may compromise me in certain situations. Here goes and I'm outa here.

Warrior, what you say has much merit. But I can tell you with assurance that the Clintons are more than prepared for the swiftboaters. Those guys were amateurs as was Kerry.

The Clintons see themselves as "class warriors" and they are prepared to unleash hell on whatever gets in their way. Watch for the swiftboarders to get suckerpunched right when they (and we) least expect it.

They did it to Bush 1 (completely off the record, but the Bush people know what I mean) and brought down "the house that Ronnie built."

They may be bleeding heart liberals of a certain flavor, but they will use brass knuckles, and more, when the battle is pitched.

It all goes back a long time to a graduate thesis about Democrats not knowing how to fight... that old paper has ruled the Clinton mindset from the mists. Don't worry about Hillary, you might better worry about her adversaries.

Is the '08 race over?

Sierra, SF — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:56:18 GMT

Does anyone re3member Edmund Muskie ?
He was the overwhelming favorite in 1972.
All the insiders and the whole Democratic establishment supported him.

He didn't make it !!

Let's not be lemmings
Don't settle for unethical political hacks !!
Don't settle for Bush-lite !!
Let's nominate a REAL DEMOCRAT !!

Hillary Clinton,
15 years of dishonesty, scandal and political polarization

Is the '08 race over?

Lee Holmes — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:59:14 GMT

Gary: Perhaps you can share your thoughts on Hillarys New York City using public monies to fund Islamic schools. Now. When we think of ''theocracies'',Caliphates and ''12th Imams''usually do not come to mind. This will change however,as Americas Islamic population continues to grow. You will instantly find,however,that unlike Judaism and Christianity,there is no such thing a ''reform'' or ''liberal''branch of Islam. They do not exist. The few,tiny numbers of reformers are under threat for their lives. Indeed,the specific goal of Islam,including here in the US,is to establish a theocracy. At the moment,it is the only major religion on the planet to use violence to achieve this goal.

Is the '08 race over?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:28:37 GMT

Gary - I second Mark's AMEN. I generally could care less what other people choose to believe...up to the point where your belief tries to prevent me from acting in accordance with my belief. Then we are going to have a problem.

And Kathy? It's not about alive or dead, it's about viability. That is the legal standard, whether you like it or not.

Is the '08 race over?

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:03:44 GMT

Lee Holmes--Hillary is mayor of New York?
News to me. I am not a citizen of either the city or state of New York but if I were I would be screaming at the top of my lungs. As loudly as I would scream in my own state if school vouchers were ever used to pull money out of the public secular school system to fund parents who wish to send their children to Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, buddhist, Shinto or Satanic cult schools. The Secular Public school system in this country needs to work. It's curriculum needs to be free from ALL magic and superstition. It is a priority that we can not afford to ignore. It should be the basis of equality in America. I am sure, Lee, that a man of your political persuasion has already given up on the idea of fully funded, working, public schools but that is the nature of a Political Party that hates government. The idea of allowing that Party to govern makes about as much sense as putting Quakers in charge of the Military.
As for your ominous "Islamic take over of the west paranoia", your fears are dependent on the view that no one will oppose it politically. That we will just all bow down and help elect radical islamists to key government positions. As for the violence, well the human race is a violent warlike species. Violence in a civil setting is a law enforcement problem. Unfortunately the times we live in require stepped up law enforcement efforts. We give law enforcement the tools they need to identify threats including profiling. We stop searching 75 year old grandmas from Minnesota and we adopt the Israeli model of TRAINING our TSA to read people not collect nail files. If we uncover plots then we smash them. If foreign nationals in our country engage commit acts of terrorism that result in death than we try them and execute them under the same laws that we live. WE DO NOT give up our freedoms for any false security. WE DO NOT change our system. We hold our system up to the world and announce that we believe in it and that it won't be destroyed and that we will use it to beat our enemies and still keep our soul. We become world leaders again by leading with our example. And finally, we hold our national leaders accountable for a coherent foreign policy that does not respond to horrendous mass murder committed by a group of religious fanatics by invading the false nation of a two bit dictator, breaking it, and becoming morally bound to pissing blood an money for a lost cause that hurts our security and does nothing to catch and kill the perpetrators of the original crime. I don't wish to to be hurtful and insulting but the only description that comes to mind is DUMB.

Is the '08 race over?

H P Boston — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:38:01 GMT

Amen again , but this country is about MONEY and POWER.
The power people have done away with the middle class and have taken FULL control. They rule the courts, the schools, health care, insurance and our government. They keep the little people praying and praying so they think they are fighting the devils, it is all so contrived.

Gary I believe as you, get out of my face and my taxed backed schools and take your beliefs to your house and pray away, away from me.
There is no POWER in any prayers, only scant comfort for the ones that give credence to the liars and power hungry men who run the religions in this world.
OH and don't forget to snd them MONEY lots of it!

Is the '08 race over?

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:42:48 GMT

HP Boston-
Agreed. I think that the middle class has been losing since the Reagan administration. This period of Republican resurgence has gone hand in hand with the rise of corporate control of this nation. Unfortunately to many Democratic lawmakers have joined their Republican brethren at the trough. Real reform is badly needed. I hope to hear more of that talk from the Democratic stable of candidates. I know I am leaning on Montana's newly Blue Senate contingent to walk the walk.

Is the '08 race over?

Mark thieme — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:56:11 GMT

Gary,
While you are at it, vote for Steve Bullock early and often. The national party is looking at that race. Bullock could be a player if he gets some money to wage a competitive campaign.

Is the '08 race over?

Frank Winters, Kansas City — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:33:47 GMT

This is a secular country and will remain a secular country.

========

Wanna hand over all that religious money of yours Gary? You know that stuff that says "In God We Trust".

Read your history a little closer, oohh, go back to about the 1600's or so, and read a little about why those people from Europe came here.

Secular indeed. Sounds like you're in a bit of denial to how this country was formed. I know, I know, it's Bush's fault.

Is the '08 race over?

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:23:42 GMT

Frank Winters--Yes, secular in fact. Our fore fathers came here to avoid a state imposed religion. Then in Salem they burned, pressed and drowned citizens accused of witchcraft. That it happened in the 1600's just reveals that hypocrisy is timeless. You should read your Jefferson and Madison a little closer and then try to deal with your own denial.

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State." - James Madison

I know, I know, it's Clinton's fault.

Is the '08 race over?

IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY — Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:35:31 GMT

Yes and the 7 year old who amazes me with his early wisdom has asked why under god is in the pledge of allegiance. I told him it is not, take it out. It was not there when I went to school and was inserted on some freakish whim. WE pledge without any under god stuff.

Is the '08 race over?

H P Boston — Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:38:34 GMT

Gary, Mark, Carrie outstanding posts. Thanks.