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beaverdambob — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:28:28 GMT

Concerning the Larry Craig story, here is a handy dandy tip for non republicans, save those plastic bags form the supermarket, when you run out of barf bags grab one of these, they will do in a pinch.

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Gordon Johndroe — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:31:08 GMT

Novak was whining the other day about the sorry mess the GOP is in these days. The Larry Craig spectacle will be another millstone hung around the GOP for a long time. That said, I'd like to know what the heck Arlen Specter is thinking when he encouraged Craig to reconsider his decision. Well, a ship of fools and all that is going to meet an iceberg called the American voters in 2008. Best of luck and don't let the door hit you in the ass goodbye, GOP.

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vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:36:47 GMT

A new addition today;

This is from the Mass. state Democratic party, devoted to Mitt Romney, and his many positions on the issues.

http://romneyfacts.com/

I provide you, the voter/reader, with the tools to enable you to have fun exposing them yourselves.

Whenever they post their, "opinions", ask, "Where did you get that information? could you please post the link?" Then you can go to the actual sources of their information. Almost all of the most current factual information on the candidates, the polls and the candidates' finances and contributors can be found below. I will be posting this list EVERY morning and updating the sources as they become available. The best way to combat lies is with TRUTH. Here is your ammo pack!

http://www.fec.gov/index.shtml The Federal Elections Commission is where the candidates file the financial information for their campaigns.

http://www.opensecrets.org/ Opensecrets.org is "Your guide to money in U.S elections."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ Is THE source for political junkies, with links to every major political site on the right, left and center.

http://www.pollster.com/

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/ is the one of the most accurate polling companies in the business, with daily tracking polls.

http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=asc#vr Has the voting records for all members of congress, and their Liberal/Conservative ratings.

http://votesmart.org/index.htm Here's what they say at the site;
Thousands of candidates and elected officials. Who works for you? Who is seeking your vote? Project Vote Smart, a citizen's organization, has developed a Voter's Self-Defense System to provide you with the necessary tools to self-govern effectively: abundant, accurate, unbiased and relevant information. As a national library of factual information, Project Vote Smart covers your candidates and elected officials in five basic categories: biographical information, issue positions, voting records, campaign finances and interest group ratings. What would you like to know?

Van

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Robert Catalano, Salem, OR — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:37:14 GMT

Ah, Larry Craig wants to be exonerated. Another homophobic hypocrite who won't go quietly even when his political career is on its deathbed. Yell louder, Larry. I AM NOT GAY. No one is listening.

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Nancy Craft — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:50:00 GMT

I'm a very elderly person so perhaps I look at the Craig debacle,the Iraq war debacle, and the selling of votes to special interests somewhat differently from some. I learned early that letting my children deal with consequences they had created was the best learning experience of all. America may have to go through all this trauma in order to wake up to reality. There is a world out there that is not us.

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MK,MO — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:03:24 GMT

how come first read dropped the economy section?

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juan,ft lauderdale,fl — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:06:21 GMT

To borrow his own words against Clinton in 1999....Craig you are a naughty, nasty and bad boy. Yeah right you are a straight man. Keep trying to convince your wife and children of that. You have been living a double life in denial, due to your mormon beliefs and the rampant homophobia you chose to live inorder to get elected year after year. I need to add that you Sir are a pathetic self-loathing individual and care only about yourself inorder to hang on to any shred of dignity you claim you have. I am wondering now how the oxymoron moral/family values party who thought they had sweeped this under the rug are feeling this morning?

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Kenn"eat em and weep"O — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:18:15 GMT

Cant wait to see whats left of the republican party battle each other to see who gets stuck with Bushs legacy.Fred, john,who tried so hard to get the president to endorse him,rudy,fox news favorite,mitt,this is gonna get good.The republican drama machine ,who can play the terror card who claims 911 the best who can scare them the most.Tie your hat on this is just getting ugly remember Karl Roves influnce is everywhere in politics even repub against repub

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Toris — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:27:24 GMT

The last time i checked, Dick Cheeney and Rumsfield has a huge experience in dealing with foreign affair, yet, they screwwed up so bad.

If Bill is going to dismiss that arguement of comparing his wife with the two duo, i'll sugest he looks at their resume. HRC cannot have it both way. Experience is different from change and Fresh Idea. If HRC is so experience, what has she used it for since she was elected as a Senator? Bill doesn't have the credibility to be talking about Change since he is part of the failed Washington.

What did he do to change Washington while in office? The answer is nothing but Monica and Scandal. Please Bill stop throwing stone 'cos your records is wide open to the public.

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Independent, Texas — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:31:05 GMT

Gordon Johndroe (Sent Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:31 AM)

I've been a coward about chiming in on the Craig situation because I know I'll catch some real flak.

Here goes. I am as ready to condemn Sen Craig for hypocrisy as anyone but I have grave reservations about the law enforcement tactics used in this situation. I read what Specter and Leahy said and I agree with them. As for the hypocisy part, the Idaho voters will take care of that when Sen Craig term is up. There is the part, however, that "conduct unbecoming a Senator" can still play in pressuring him for a resignation.

We can get into discussions about why he pled to the lesser charge if you like. I agree that a Senator ought to know better.

I am removing Craig entirely from my consideration of this issue and focusing solely on the police action. I just do not see how "signaling" can be perceived as illegal which is how Mr. Craig was "caught" anyway - his acceptance of the civil disturbance charge came later.

Unless and until, Mr. Craig had demonstrated some action toward public sexual conduct, how can he be charged with a crime? I know, I know - these signals are well known. However, isn't buying a drink for some stanger in a bar also a signal?

OK - have at me. I know you guys are gonna really yell at me.

Sigh.

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Sierra, SF — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:35:51 GMT

Ron Paul's YouTube video 'Educating Rudy' clearly shows he's the only candidate with a grip on reality.
al-Queda came here on 9/11 because we were there (meddling in the Middle East).
They didn't attack us because we were 'good'.
They attacked us because they thought we are the 'evil Empire'.
The rest of the Republicans and most of the Democrats will give you more of the same: the American Empire.

Better Ron Paul than Hillary Clinton !!

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Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:36:32 GMT

GOOD MORNING AMERICA. YOU GUESSED IT..BUSH SUCKS.

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PJ — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:37:29 GMT

Craig & Thompson should both go home & shoot their little wads in private instead of publicly where they're making decent folks sick to our stomachs and let the REAL PUBLIC SERVANTS get busy with the task of cleaning up the shrubco disaster.

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Sierra, SF — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:41:14 GMT

Gordon Johndroe: '...the sorry mess the GOP is in these days. The Larry Craig spectacle will be another millstone hung around the GOP for a long time.'

Gordon Johndroe, that's why it's IMPERATIVE that the Democrats nominate someone not up to her eyeballs in scandal and dishonesty !!

Imagine if theDemocrats presented a clean, honest candidate, say an Obama or Edwards.
Compared to the corrupt and tarnished Republicans, They'd shine and roll on to victory.

If the Democrats nominate a crooked, dihonest candidate Washington insider, the voters will have a choice ot Twiddle-Craig or Twiddle-Hillary !!!

TURN THE PAGE

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Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:45:11 GMT

LARRY CRAIG CONTINUES TO SUCK.

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Dave, Tn — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:46:01 GMT

Larry Craig will be up to the people of Idaho. Maybe they'll decide that like most north east democrats that no amount of scandal is worth losing their bacon boy. After all it's not like anyone died, or he got caught with a congressional page in Europe.

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Sierra, SF — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:48:46 GMT

'.... Lauer tried to remind the “Comeback Kid” that he wasn’t exactly the most experienced candidate in ’92. Clinton replied that he was the most experienced governor in the country and had the right experience for the time....'

So, Bill was inexperienced at foreign policy when he ran.

But, now 'experience' is critical !!
Can you believe ANYTHING this guy says ?
Hillary was a glorified house wife in the Whit House.
(a desperate housewife?)
That's no experience !!

Hillary's 'expeience' led her to support the Iraq War
Hillary's 'experience' just makes her a more clever liar and a more devious politician.
You can learn a lot in the White House !!

Bill Clinton was called the 'Comeback Kid' because he was 'coming back' from one scandal or another.
Does anyone remember Gennifer Flowers ? (with a 'G')
There was a 'comeback' from that scandal !!
Does anyone remember 'bimbo explosions' ?
Bill needed to be the 'Comeback Kid' !!
He still needs to be ....

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RH Oregon — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:50:47 GMT

Here's what Hillary & Walter Cronkite think of American sovereignty:

"To deal with world problems, we need a system of enforceable world law, a democratic federal world government." ""First, we Americans are going to have to yield up some of our sovereignty," Cronkite said." "It would take a lot of courage, a lot of faith in the new world order." "200 sovereignties in our global village, all of which are going to have to be convinced to give up some of that sovereignty to the better, greater union."

H.R. Clinton, then first lady, congratulated Cronkite, saying, "For decades you told us 'the way it is,' but tonight we honor you for fighting for the way it could be."

Sentiments Hillary expressed in 1999 during a ceremony in which former CBS News anchorman Walter Cronkite accepted the Norman Cousins Global Governance Award from the World Federalist Association.

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Shadow, Hamden,CT — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:52:41 GMT

Nice try, President Clinton, but if you get a botched surgery, you don't promote one of the people who authorized it to run the hospital.

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MK,MO — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:56:02 GMT

when justice is finaly served and hillary is removed from the political process what will happen to the dirty money she has collected from her criminal backers?

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Independent, Texas — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:57:54 GMT

RH Oregon (Sent Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:50 AM)

That is one of the most frightening things I have ever read. This is straight out of the neoconservative policy book. BTW - Neoconservatives are neither "new" nor "conservative". This is an insidious movement and I encourage all of you to investigate it.

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Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:59:10 GMT

Gordon Johndroe--That is a very good question. What is Specter up to? I am fine if the GOP chooses to drag this out. It seems that it can do nothing but further chip away at a crumbling edifice. As long as Democrats stay out of the way and let them take careful aim at their own feet then all the better. Any ideas what ol Arlen could be thinking??

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:04:37 GMT

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Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:11:04 GMT

KARL ROVE HAS ALWAYS "SUCKED" ,BIG TIME.

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:11:06 GMT

Independent:

We have discussed this issue before, and I agree with you to some extent. I don't know these "signals" myself but I can easily imagine someone engaging in the same mannerisms as Craig with no intention to solicit sex. I had no idea that such signals existed, so it is probable most other people are not aware of them either.

If we are going to start arresting people for soliciting consensual sexual encounters, our jails are going to be overflowing. Guys, better not by a woman a drink - that is a definite signal that you are interested in hooking up, isn't it? Think of all the "signals" that single people (not to mention marrieds hiding masquerading as singles) send each other to indicate an interest in having sex. Would that all fall under the heading of solicitation?

It seems to me that Craig did no more than send signals that are common amongst a specific group of people to indicate that he wanted to engage in sexual activity. I'm not sure how that differs from a man buying a woman a drink or offering to walk her up to her apartment or anything else along those lines.

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Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:11:56 GMT

ALBERTO GONZOLES, ALSO KNOWN AS "GONZO" SUCKS.

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Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:13:58 GMT

DICK CHANEY IS THE BIGGEST "SUCKER" OF THEM ALL. FOLLOWED CLOSLEY BEHIND , YES... GEORGE BUSH WHO IS A BIG SUCKER. LET'S ADMIT IT THEY ALL "SUCK".

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Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:21:33 GMT

Independent, Texas--From a legal point of view you are spot on. Most knowledgeable opinion I have heard suggests that he could have beaten this had he gone to court. Of course that would mean at least a year of the constant dripping of evidence, testimony, and the uncovering of other past experiences. Whatever the verdict it have been the end of his career in '08. Idaho is safely red so one can assume it will stay that way. However, if he stays, the chance for the Dems to pick up the seat is better. Also if he stays it helps the Dems nationally in other races. But at least if he stays and fights and is found innocent than he recovers a shred of dignity for himself in the eyes of his church and his family. Maybe Sen. Specter, seeing the tenuous position of the GOP for '08 anyway, was just being a human being in offering the man a chance to save face despite his Hypocrisy? That's fine by me. A win win situation.

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vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:26:40 GMT

Listen to the wailing and hand-wringing of the Hillary haters, who peddle the same tired cliches, every day, regardless of the topic, and cling white-knuckled, to any negative, or negative sounding news that reinforces their senseless hatred.
Even though they are so filled with bile and venom, they spend more time blasting her, and anyone who has the temerity to support her candidacy, than they do on whoever it is they're supporting. In their endless repetitive quest to smear her and to shout down her supporters, they reveal (consciously or not) that to them it is all about her.

This tiny little universe, with it's dedicated band of Hillary-haters, is not representative of the electorate at large, and as that becomes more and more evident, the most vocal will most likely slink away to find a home somewhere else. Until then, be prepared to experience, "Groundhog Day", here at "First Read", from the usual suspects.

Van

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George, NY — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:37:05 GMT

Sierra - The world was a very different place in 1992 than it is today. There was no September 11. There was no ongoing invasion into Iraq. The threat posed by Iran and North Korea seemed (perhaps wrongly so) to be less significant. Situations change, and as a result, who we need to handle those situations changes.

Isn't this the Bush/Cheny republican argument?

Oh that's right she agrees with them that republicans will do a better job after 911 espically if there is another "hypothetical" terriost attack

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Richard Fifield, Easton, PA — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:41:16 GMT

Independent and Carrie--

I haven't followed all the ins and outs of Senator Craig's situation the way some have, so maybe I don't have a place to talk, but what I have read strikes me as close to, if not actually being, entrapment (of course, entrapment requires enticing or inviting someone to engage in criminal conduct, and consensual gay sex isn't criminal per se, but could be criminal if committed in a public place or forum). When you solicit someone to commit an act for the purpose of arresting him/her for agreeing to commit the act, usually the charge is dismissed (unless the person is known to have a predilection to commiting the offense [I think I have may law right on this]).

I know that law enforcement uses this technique to catch drug users/dealers, and sometimes to locate persons suspected of other criminal activity, but it always struck me as shadowy (even if technically legal) to permit a person to be lured into commiting an offense by law enforcement. It strikes me as just plain wrong.

So many people have jumped all over the Senator because of his (apparent/purported) double life and what some regard as his hypocritical attitude toward homosexuality (we are preoccupied with people's sex lives, aren't we?), but it strikes me that this is yet another case of someone being pilloried for what is, essentially, private conduct (okay, in the Senator's case, semi-public? conduct). Maybe we all need to stop looking to play "gotcha" with people's private lives, and concentrate on how they discharge their public duties/responsibilities (after all, isn't that what a lot of our Democratic friends said about Bill Clinton's peccidillos [sp?]).

This said, it is probably a wise move for the senator to step aside quietly. All of this is a distraction from urgent public business, and the people of Idaho deserve a Senator who can focus on his/her job.

After that, we all need to stop worrying about people's private lives. Even public figures are entitled to that, aren't they?

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Pat, Boston, MA — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:48:21 GMT

Independent, I see nothing wrong with your opinion.

The GOP is going down because they have been preaching and preaching to us for years. No one likes to be told what is acceptable or unacceptable in their private lives. If Senator Craig is in fact gay, he's in the wrong party. The GOP throws everyone under the bus if they do not conform. If the Senator is trying to protect his family, good for him. If there is more "dirt" on him, he should just quietly resign so his family isn't dragged down any further.

However, the GOP as a whole needs to recognize the world as it is, not the way they would like it to be. This country is becoming so progressive so fast; the GOP needs to recognize this fact of life.

And if they don't, they aren't going to get elected to anything in the future by the younger generations.

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Sierra, SF — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:50:57 GMT

Carrie 'The world was a very different place in 1992 than it is today. There was no September 11. There was no ongoing invasion into Iraq.'

Carrie, you need honesty and wisdom !!
Hillary has neither.
Why hand over the reins of foreign policy to the crew that screwed it up already !!
Bill is just trying to have it both ways.

When he was an outsider, he cries 'change'
Now that he's an insider, he cries 'experience'

This fools nobody but a few voters !!
As far as foreign policy is concerned, Ron Paul has the best and most honest explanations!
See his 'Educating Rudy' on YouTube !!
It's one of the few moments of clarity this campaign will have

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Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:51:18 GMT

Carrie, Eastern Iowa--That points up a common misconception I have been noticing. Suprisingly, even among some liberals. That misconception is that he was arrested and plead guilty to being Gay (not a crime..yet). His crime was lewd behavior in a public place. Now we have young grand children that we travel with from time to time and they use public restrooms. Public restrooms are unacceptable for sexual activity. If Senator Craig were a healthy self acctualized human being who had accepted his sexual orientation like Barney Frank then he wouldn't have been arrested. Of course he also wouldn't be a Republican Senator but thats not my problem. Mentally healthy Gay people have sex in bed just like everyone else. His hipocricy lead to his downfall. Instant Karma. But I have no problem with him exercising his right to maintain his Senate seat and restore the illusion that he wishes to present to his family and his Church. GO Larry!
Kinda weird though, guys with two first names or just one name.
Larry Craig, Barney Frank, Liberace, Mango? :)

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David Aust, Utah — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:52:34 GMT

I guess the Massachusetts Democrat Party is terrified of Mitt Romney. I have never seen the Democrats so terrified of a GOP candidate in this way. It kind of makes me wonder why they aren't so frightened by the other GOP candidates. I guess the Democrats think Mitt Romney is their biggest threat: shrinking the size of their state government, cutting out waist, eliminating duplicated efforts, etc. All this is the strength of the Democratic Party.

I am also impressed with some recent polls that show that the only performance worse than President Bushs' is the performance of the Democratic Senate and House. Bush is at least 10 points ahead of them which is an absolutely amazing to me.

I actually think both parties are starting to crumble from the amount of people who are still undecided in this political contest. People have lost thier belief and faith in our government. I would not be surprised to see the lowest turnout at the voting booth in the history of our country. Quite frankly, the Democrats and Republicans have a great deal to be embarrased about in how they have handled the political process over the years. I wonder what it would be like if the Democrats and Republicans placed websites up demonstrating all the terrible things the other party has done. Now, that is something I would be interested in looking at.

I also believe these blogs are having a profound affect on the candidates. Many of us contribute to different perspectives on articles on the Internet in helping the media lose their biased perspectives. Perhaps, it is we the bloggers who are helping others to become engaged or disengaged in the political process! Either way, I see many Americans becoming more disinterested in what happens in politics no matter what the issues are. But, perhaps all of this is for the benefit of which ever candidate is supposed to win the presidency. Who knows how our blog posts will help some candidate whom we may despise win the presidency in some curious way?

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Terry CC Iowa — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:54:14 GMT

Independent & Carrie. There is one more tidbit about the Craig story people forget. Police were notified prior to the arrest of Craig that men were being harassed in the men's room by other men. That is the reason the undercover officer was in the men's room to look prevent harassment. Hence Craig and his signals prompted the officer to escort Craig to the office.

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gray, DC — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:11:43 GMT

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Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:12:48 GMT

Whats the problem with prostitution ,whats wrong with solicitation ,whats wrong with pot smoking, whats wrong with gambling .I might have expected this from demos but not the holier than thou crowd next you will tell me abortions are ok,then what?Lying to a grand Jury or Contempt of congress ,You know the cop was lying when he said he saw an infraction and pulled the black guy over and even though I pleaded guilty to speeding but that was just to knock the points of my insurance,I think I might get them to reopen the case like republicans say you cant trust COPS.

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Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:15:23 GMT

sierra, get off the drugs and you wont be so suspicious of the clintons as much. you are a libertarian and will vote for ron paul, right? so go for it. we know just how much you hate woman now too.

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kenn"our prayers will be answered by my GOD"O — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:16:41 GMT

To the people who have lost faith ,think of the 06 elections.There you go now isn't you faith feeling better,never thought we could kick weldon and santorioum out of office but the people of PA did just that SURPRISE you see virginia there really is a god and his name isn't BUSH or MACACA

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Gay in Orlando — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:18:06 GMT

Whether or not Larry Craig is gay or not is only relevant to his many anti-gay votes in the Senate. The vast majority of gay men do not have casual sex in public restrooms. That practice is reserved for perverts, who, according to police reports, are usually married men with children. The point is not whether Sen. Craig was "entrapped" into having consensual sex with another man, it is that it appears he did so in a public area.

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Independent, Texas — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:24:49 GMT

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:51 AM)

and

Terry CC Iowa (Sent Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:54 AM)

Want to make my point again.

"Signaling" to indicate interest in sexual behavior is not the same thing as perfoming sexual behavior. Why is signaling illegal? Is signaling "harrassment?"

I too, being responsible for young persons on occasion, am reluctant to let them go into public restrooms for the very reason that they may be harassed or, God forbid, attacked. Such concern by the police department is valid and efforts to make these areas safer are to be supported.

My only point is that if the undercover office had signaled back "ok" and if Craig has begun to show actual sexual behavior, that would have been the time to arrest him. If Craig had instead, for instance, discussed and planned on another private venue for the behavior, there would have been no cause of arrest unless money was also mentioned.

I think that Craig's behavior is inexcusable but I just don't see where it was illegal. Also, the actual "crime" that he pled to was not related to sexual conduct at all but to disorderly conduct. That was obviously an attempt, as Sen Craig has said, to keep this whole situation quiet. Now, it appears that he is thinking that he should have just faced these charges head on. I agree that he should have and let the political consquences fall as they may.

Please don't construe my comments as being supportive of Sen Craig in any way. I posted on this blog back when this whole thing first became news that I was troubled by the situation and couldn't really figure out why. I certainly was never troubled by the Allen or Vitter garbage.

Now I know why I am so troubled. Regardless of my antipathy toward the political positions of Sen Craig, I just cannot support what I understand to be the law enforcement behavior in this case.

Further information about the police's behavior and methods may change my mind but, for the moment, I think Sen Craig has a point about changing his.

Thanks,

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Mark Y; Westlake Village, CA — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:36:14 GMT

as an observation, no jerry = good posts & discussions.
David Aust, congress ratings are low and yes, the dems have a majority, but a slim one. I feel the polls reflect both the disenchantment you mention as well as the repubs success at blocking legislation.

Richard Fifield, appreciate your position on Craig re: private vs. public lives relative to Bill Clinton. I think it was smart for the dems to stay relatively quiet as it seems to me the most pressure came from his own party. I see this as a possible beginning by the GOP for true conservatives to take back control from the neocons. The Dems need to watch out if the GOP manages to make these lemons into lemonade. However, the GOP remains in a tough position now due to the scandals and unpopularity of the Iraq war.

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:36:35 GMT

Gary - I have no misconception about why he was arrested. Lewd conduct, to me, is not tapping your foot on the floor, nor is it waving your hand under the bathroom stall. Weird, yes. Lewd, no. I don't think young children would be horrified by a man tapping his foot in a bathroom stall.

And um...no offense, but you might want to update your definition of "normal" sex. It's not at all uncommon for people to venture out of the bedroom for sex, and (shock!) out of the house entirely. Sex in bathrooms, at work, at sports stadiums, in the car, on an airplane (Mile High Club members know this)...wherever, whenever the mood strikes. I don't consider that to be indicative of poor mental health. Bad manners, maybe poor judgment in some situations, but poor mental health? Not at all. It's a lot more normal than your comfort level allows, I'm sure, but that's the way it is.

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bb — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:39:52 GMT

Now Sierra is obsessing about Ron Paul...hating the winner-Hillary, and backing a total loser who has no chance in hell of winning. You go Sierra! A legend in his/her own mind.

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RH Oregon — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:42:35 GMT

When it comes to HillBilly there are so, so many negative facts and examples to show and expose to the world that our work may never be done. We don't consider it smearing so much as exposing the muck that she has tries to hide.
The USS HillBilly sinking on the China Sea. They are reported to be sending out an SOS (socialism on steroids) signal, but only one ship is answering. A pudgy little tugboat named the USS vincent Van go.
Just keep repeating 'i think i can, i think i can'.

Go Fred. www.imwithfred.com www.ronpaul2008.com

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Ravine Force, Kissimmee, FL — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:43:52 GMT

Where's Jerry? Craig needs his help! Come on, Jerry, spin it so that Craig becomes the victim.

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Jeffersonian Don — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:46:35 GMT

Another tid bit about Craig. Does no one see it odd that there was first a tap of the foot the his hand reaching under the stall wall with a business card? Sounds damn suspicious to me.

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Jeffersonian Don — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:48:50 GMT

yikes !!! I can not believe what I read in the blog rooms .Do any of you realize how polarized you all are? "We the people" ,this means AMERICANS .This is a phrase that 1st and foremost should resonate in every one of you.Do the lot of you not realize how the political elite have manipulated you into back biting ,nashing ,and over all hating the other side. Its so bad that you do not even realize, you do not matter! The political elite care about money ,not your sons or daughters in IRAQ. money; not your house morgage ,or insurance rates. Money; not your likes or dislikes.They manipulate situations to create polarization so you will not see real issues . Those said issues are going to cost you in the long run. The elite do not plan for a day or month ,but in decades .You plan for tomorrows blog , or where you will buy the cheapest gas! Get a grip AMERICA "WE the people" united WE stand ,devided we are fleeced.

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Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:50:10 GMT

Carrie - true things have changed since 1992. But are you really telling me you believe the scene just happened to be right for Bill Clinton's experience in 1992, and just happens now to be right for Hillary Clinton's experience today? Doesn't that "convenience" just irritate your intelligence a little?

Hey, I'm all for talking points and all candidates try to put their best arguments forward. No one can come out and say he/she just wants to be president... because they just want to be president. But that doesn't mean we have to blindly accept their alternative talking points.

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Jeffersonian Don — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:50:44 GMT

Here is a rant for all. I hear Clinton this ,and Bush that ,and now Fred .Has anyone stopped to think they'er all polititians .I do not presume to base my morals or my personal beliefs on a politician reguardless of thier political reflection. Again a man or woman is seen by thier actions not words .Clinton the 1st overall did well for America as by what was seen by the overall global population has seen , Bush is doing piss poor by global population standards ,but what does it matter when they all change thier political party line like they change thier underwear. They all recieve campaign contributions from the same corrupt corporate entities ;eg. law firms ,real estate, big oil, prescription drug, and lobbyist all. The only difference is Fred does not have to account for his contributions. Know knowing that ;who do you think owns thier loyalty?

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nuanced — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:53:37 GMT

Independent, I agree with you but don't hold your breath expecting Sen. Craig to champion the plight of gays who suffer from the very same tactics and seek changes. He is out for number one only and wants special treatment. Did I just give a definition of a neocon?

One the other hand, it is the setting, not the soliciting that is crucial in this case. People have an expectation of being solicited in a bar or possibly on the street. People are in a vulnerable position and expect privacy in a restroom. Unwanted solicitation in a restroom is a nuisance activity imposed upon a captive audience and should be suppressed thought jail time would be inappropriate.

It is why, for instance, smoking should be banned on airplane flights with violators punished but not jailed. Personally I think the police should go after unwanted commercial solicitation, scam, phishing via phones, cell phones, mail, fax, email, etc and the most egregious violators should go to jail.

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Mary, NY — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:54:07 GMT

Seems like Hillary's Money man (HSU) has gone missing again:

She can't seem to keep track of where her "men" are

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RFDRS80&show_article=1

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kenn"No you dont belive in the system but I do " — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:14:44 GMT

No jeffersonion the people do control things ask santorium the highest ranking republican who ignored his people so he could toe the party line or weldon who spread corrupt money around and still lost.It is people like you who would like to convince people the system is hopeless.It is not.If you work at it little ole you can make a difference,vote.Work for a canidate ,maybe one who knows how comprimise works ,the demos didnt shut the lights out .they didnt threaten the nuclear option of filibustering,they did not shut the microphones off like sensinburger,you work with people trying to destoy soething that can never be perfect the american revolution happens everytime we vote.It might get rough so hide your head if you need someone to fight for your rights.

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Independent, Texas — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:17:29 GMT

nuanced (Sent Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:53 PM)

Thanks!

You are the first person to raise the point of expectation based on location. That is not something I'd thought of before.

Still in all, as long as such "invitation" does not involve touching or, er, display, doesn't it still fall under freedom of speech?

I am REALLY not trying to get myself glued to a position and will gladly change it but I am still bothered by all this. You can imagine, I'm certain, how uncomfortable I feel raising a "rights" issue for such a hypocrite.

Such is the price of being a fair minded person, I guess.

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Bruce St. Helens, OR — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:26:42 GMT

Many years ago, I left a party after having too much to drink and on the way home, I pulled over off of the highway, turned the car off and 'tok a nap'. A police officer stopped and arrested me for suspician of DUII. The DA offered me a plea bargain taking the charge down to reckless driving which I refused for two reasons: My insurance rate would go through the roof and I was not driving. He then offered me careless driving. My choice then was to accept the offer - my insurance rates would not go up - or go to court on the oringinal DUI charge. I pleaded guilty to careless driving.
I am a true Blue liberal Democrat, but I wonder if Craig pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor disorderly conduct charge rather than go through a very messy trial facing a Class C felony charge of lewd and lacivious behavior; a charge by the way, based on the arrest documents, that several of my colleagues and I believe could be refuted rather easily in court.
I am in no way attempting to mimimize Mr. Craig's actions, but just point out that sometimes pleading guilty to a lessor offense is worse than standing trial. Afterall, it is his guilty plea that seems to have casued his former 'friends' in the Senate Republican caucus to abaondon him so readily.

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Class Warrior, D.C. — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:46:52 GMT

Craig wants to fight this because he is deeply, deeply in denial about his sexuality...and so blinded by the desparate need to prove the "I'm not gay" assertion that he doesn't see that it'll hurt his party. It's almost pathetic, watching this debacle---both for Craig, and for the Republicans---unfold.
It should be a boost for the Dems if they weren't backing a candidate with a past that looks like red meat to the Republican Smear Sharks. By the time they're done with her, she'll be wearing a scarlet letter ("D" for Dem or "L" for liberal, maybe), the Democratic hopes of regaining the White House will be in rags,and another shrub clone will be in the White House. Unless the Dems nominate someone squeaky-clean (at least in appearance, which is all that really counts in politics) to compare favorably to the Republican Gay Old Party Culture of Corruption, the sad ind of the '08 race WILL happen as I've predicted.

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Alpha Bear — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:49:19 GMT

A republican congressman dead this morning. Will the truth out?

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kenn"you got me all wrong"O — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:53:20 GMT

Beaten by the system of guilty until proven innocennt,welcome to america under republican rule if you think Craig got a bad deal just think off those suckers in cuba gitmo.Or maybe how we treated Iraqis in abu graub or all the innocents in jail for weed,or black people charged and convicted by rasist cops and district attorneys or the courts in the 50s siding with the racists,that is how it happens now you worry because a guy who worried about getting his pants dirty tried to pick up toilet paper of the same dirty floor and wipe his a$$ with it defies logic so has everything else they have done

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Alpha Bear — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:54:44 GMT

another republican (former) congresswoman found dead in her apartment today. "Natural causes."

watch the hand that is not moving...

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Alpha Bear — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:56:11 GMT

if you believe the media spin on these two deaths at this propitious time, you deserve to live in the dark.

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Miles Swanson, Boston MA — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:05:01 GMT

Many years ago, I left a party after having too much to drink and on the way home, I pulled over off of the highway, turned the car off and 'tok a nap'. A police officer stopped and arrested me for suspician of DUII.

================

Good Lord! Where was this officer when Teddy K. was roaming free on the roads? Need more like this man.

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Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:08:53 GMT

Carrie, Eastern Iowa--No offense taken. It is all in what you are willing to risk. Love and lust are wonderful things and if the mood strikes a couple and they are willing to risk the attending embarrassment of a public lewd behavior arrest then go for it.(I wouldn't know but I have heard that Back Yard trampolines under the starry Big Sky are very Romantic)
One should be aware, however, of the potential career damage that could occur to educators, politicians, Law enforcement types, lawyers, doctors and such. I didn't say it wasn't normal, just risky. As for hooking up in a bathroom with a stranger for casual physical releases? That is not normal nor is it safe nor is it smart. But I wish Senator Craig all the best in retaining his seat and fighting for his good name right up until the '08 election. GO Larry!

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Carol, Seatle, WA — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:12:35 GMT

Juan in Ft. Lauderdale:

Please get your facts straight before you make slanderous allegations. Craig is NOT a Mormon. He is a Methodist. Now, please elborate about your bigotry against all Methodists please.

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Alpha Bear — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:19:41 GMT

It is getting dangerous out there... in more ways than one. Something is up.

Will we ever know the truth? Or will we be watching the gyrating hand and arguing about other ancient unsolved mysteries while the smoke and mirrors make fools of us again? Who knows?

"'After the fact' is better than 'caught in the act.'"
Layman Pang

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Jeffersonian Don — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:32:22 GMT

Ken ,no use in arguing .YOU MADE MY POINT! I do vote in all municipal to national elections.I have even worked within the government estab. so I know a thing or two about the 2 party corruption. Quiz :was the U.S. always a 2 party system ?,2 why did it change? Now you know why I do not believe in the corrupt 2 party system ,and 3 look up Jeffersonian and tell me what were the principles behind it? You see I do believe in an America for Americans where we the people should stand together and say enough in fighting ,or get you sh@$ together and get out! Polarization is tearing us appart as a nation. I ;however, did not say stand idley by and as you imply"bury your head in the sand ". Act ,We the People.

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Independent, Texas — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:37:15 GMT

Alpha Bear

I know about Gilmore
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20605612/

who was the 2nd one?

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:40:37 GMT

Paul - Actually, no it doesn't irritate my intelligence. I think the same thing was true in 2004 and I said as much.

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Baby Bear — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:44:36 GMT

Alpha Bear, Dunn and Gillmor? Sounds like a law firm.

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Sierra, SF — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:44:52 GMT

'...This tiny little universe, with it's dedicated band of Hillary-haters, is not representative of the electorate at large......'

Gee, vanreuter thanks for clearing that up !!
I alway thought I was 'every man', vox populi !!
and totally groovy !!

You've opened up my eyes !!

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Jeffersonian Don — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:57:26 GMT

Ken , Don't get me wronge .I admire your conviction .I just think those convictions would be better served; if instead of hate and distrust ,we all would do a little more research into our candidates and had the fore sight to look beyond party lines. I am a registered Dem. ,but have voted Rebub. because it is not all black and white , and No , I did not vote Repub in the last two! Research denied that vote.

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Sierra, SF — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:57:50 GMT

'sierra, get off the drugs and you wont be so suspicious of the clintons as much. you are a libertarian and will vote for ron paul, right? so go for it. we know just how much you hate woman now too. G'.....

Gee, G you always make a LOT OF SENSE.......
Have you ever considered a career in PHILOSOPHY ?

;-0

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:17:15 GMT

Gary - That is assuming that the actual sexual encounter was going to take place in the bathroom. There is no proof that Craig intended to complete the act, so to speak, in the bathroom.

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Independent, Texas — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:36:24 GMT

Jeffersonian Don (Sent Wednesday, September 05, 2007 2:57 PM)

completely concur that is why I am...

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Public Servant — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:56:26 GMT

Return to the Field of Dreams...

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RC — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:16:54 GMT

Had a radio show once where I did a character named "Richard Cranium." Just mimicked Brit Hume. An easy pimp.
Sounds like more unintentional humor.

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Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:27:27 GMT

Carrie, Eastern Iowa-- Larry Craig is not lying when he says he believes he isn't gay. He has compartmentalized his life into "Larry Craig, Family Guy, Church elder, and US Senator" and "Larry, seeker of what ever Larry wants". Pardon the conjecture but I don't believe people who meet in bathrooms will end up looking into each others eyes over a margarita in the airport Friday's. They will end up in the same stall with each other for about 5 minutes and then go their separate ways. Larry(Leisure suit) wouldn't want Senator Larry Craig to know anyone personally who would do something like that.
But you are correct. There is no proof other than his admission of guilt to avoid publicity. He could well retain his seat and fight this up to the election. I hope that he does.

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HOT DAM — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 11:42:02 GMT

Could be Larry the Senator against gays has some leverage with the ethics committee.
He has the goods on all the boys who play the gay card when ever the "spirit' moves them.

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Math Man — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 13:02:13 GMT

jerry=carrie

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 13:24:10 GMT

Gary - Who says he is gay? A man who occasionally has sex with another man (if he even does, which I'm not sure there is any proof of anyway) but predominantly has sex with the female sex is not gay. Call him bisexual, call him bicurious, but don't call him gay because he is not - unless, of course, his preference is for homosexuality but he represses it and pretends to like women.

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Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 18:09:21 GMT

Carrie, Eastern Iowa--Carrie, re-read the post. I didn't say he was gay. I said I believe him when he says he believes he isn't gay. I don't think it would be correct to call him bi or bi curious either because he would tell you and he believes that he isn't. I'll take him at his word.
From all reports there are 25 years of rumours and one individual who thinks he may know what the senator tastes like. All unsubstantiated as far as I know. If this is how the Senator likes to get off then that is fine by me. And IF this is true, (note the big IF) judging from his legislative record and his rhetoric I do know one thing we can call him. A hypocrite. A hypocrite who has no problem looking down his nose at a group of people, acting against those people using his position and then turning around and engaging in the same behavior he says he abhors. The only reason we are talking about this is that HE pleaded guilty to dubious charges to avoid the spotlight. Not the path I would expect of a God fearing, church going, patriotic, family values, real man, Republican.

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:59:54 GMT

Gary - Just because you believe something about yourself doesn't make it true. I could believe that I sing like Dianna Ross and look like Cindy Crawford, but that doesn't mean I do.

Sadly, because of the stigma that still attaches to homosexual activity, many people not only don't come out of the proverbial closet but they don't even admit to themselves what their preferences are. I'm not saying this is true with Craig, but he would certainly fit the pattern of someone who would be in denial simply because the idea of him liking sexual activity with a man is so far removed from his concept of himself that it just doesn't register.

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Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:21:52 GMT

Carrie, Eastern Iowa--I agree. I think he is in denial. Just my opinion and I'm nobody. When this story broke my first reaction and first post, expressed sympathy for the human tragedy that he and more importantly is wife and children are going through. But also sad is the fact that he is a major contributor to the stigma that you described. His words and actions as an elected official have hurt people. Prevented loving parents from the joy of adopting, raising, and loving a child.
If the allegations are true he is a hypocrite bastard who sees himself above the very laws that he seeks to impose on others.
If the allegations are false he is a self-righteous bastard who seeks to use his office to create laws to impose his morality on others. Either way he is a bastard and Karma has done its job.