First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Independent, Texas — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:25:44 GMT

"But such improvement is akin to Michigan beating Notre Dame this weekend in college football: It’s a win, but it won’t change the fans’ minds that the season is lost, and they want to fire the man in charge, no matter what."

Love it. Great statement!

"37% think victory there is still possible, up five points."

Not being sarcastic - this is a real question: What is "victory"? Has anyone ever said what the criteria are for that term? I've been looking and I can't find it but it is indeed possible that I've missed it. I see lots of "tactical" points but I don't know what would constitute a "We're done" point. Do any of you?

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

MK,MO — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:34:48 GMT

watch bush erroneously connect iraq to 9/11 and al-queda in his address, and of course insinuate that we will all be killed by terrorists if the dems take control, smear an fear it's all the repubs got, but it is very disturbing how effective it is

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

jerry/corpus christi texas — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:34:50 GMT

George Bush as Lloyd Carr

Does that mean Hillary Clinton as Imelda Marcos?

John Edwards as Boss Hogg?

Joe Biden as George Hamilton?

Mike Gravel as Spock?

Dennis Kucinich as Tommy Chong?

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

fred flinstone for pres. — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:35:52 GMT

bring on the newtster, freds already old news and floundering like an old horse staggering to the glue factory, where's the newtster with his family values, I have to wonder how many clowns will get in the repub race?

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Honest Abe — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:36:45 GMT

I provide you, the voter/reader, with the tools to enable you to have fun exposing them yourselves.

Whenever they post their, "opinions", ask, "Where did you get that information? could you please post the link?" Then you can go to the actual sources of their information. Almost all of the most current factual information on the candidates, the polls and the candidates' finances and contributors can be found below. I will be posting this list EVERY morning and updating the sources as they become available. The best way to combat lies is with TRUTH. Here is your ammo pack!

http://www.fec.gov/index.shtml The Federal Elections Commission is where the candidates file the financial information for their campaigns.

http://www.opensecrets.org/ Opensecrets.org is "Your guide to money in U.S elections."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ Is THE source for political junkies, with links to every major political site on the right, left and center.

http://www.pollster.com/

http://romneyfacts.com/ Mitt, then and now!

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/ is the one of the most accurate polling companies in the business, with daily tracking polls.

http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=asc#vr Has the voting records for all members of congress, and their Liberal/Conservative ratings.

http://votesmart.org/index.htm Here's what they say at the site;
Thousands of candidates and elected officials. Who works for you? Who is seeking your vote? Project Vote Smart, a citizen's organization, has developed a Voter's Self-Defense System to provide you with the necessary tools to self-govern effectively: abundant, accurate, unbiased and relevant information. As a national library of factual information, Project Vote Smart covers your candidates and elected officials in five basic categories: biographical information, issue positions, voting records, campaign finances and interest group ratings. What would you like to know?

Van

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Steve, San Diego — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:44:33 GMT

Can anyone answer these questions...what is our military (not political) mission for all combat troops in Iraq? Why are we using combat troops for police work? Did we or did we not already defeat the Iraqi military? Are you going to contact your representatives in the House and Senate and remind them what the sentiment in your districts and states is regarding this mess in Iraq? Are you going to punish your GOP representatives in the next election for not heeding to your wishes and 'staying the course' with W?

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:10:39 GMT

republiCANT voters are very disciplined when it comes to their voting habbits. For the most part, no Democratic candidate is going to appeal to them regardless of who it is.
Furthermore, support is split at all levels right now (inter, and intra-party, as well as independent) because there is a long list of candidates who draw from the aggregate pool of voters.
When that list is shortened and supporters of candidates no longer in the race are forced to pick another "horse", the polling data will stabalize. Then and only then, will we get a better snapshop of how the general public feels about Hillary.
However, it's positively surprising news to hear that "(Democratic) presidential front-runners have solid leads over their GOP counterparts in individual match-ups." It's also very telling, because it means that she too LEADS her republiCANT rivals in head to head competition.
But, you would never know that from the way she is covereved in the main stream media, and certainly not from the way Mr. Murray titled this particular snippet (i.e..."*** Potential Trouble for the Dems?"...), nor from the way he worded its' content.
That's okay, the media and the CANTservatives have been doing this to her ever since she ran for the Senate 7 years ago. She's used to it, and those of us who have watched it are too.
...Hillary is going to be your President, folks. It's just that simple.
Not to worry though, she'll be a good one.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

jerry/corpus christi texas — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:11:07 GMT

Uhhhh Steve?

The goal is to take out the bad guys so the country can take care of themselves.

Me thinks you spent too much time in the Clinton navy guy......

My Senators know to toe the line......
My Democrat in the house....he better remember that this is a military town and we support the military. He better know which side of the bread his butter is on.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

matt — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:12:09 GMT

Obama has become the Iraq candidate for the Dems. He is reflecting the views of an angry public on the issue. Can he keep it up?

http://political-buzz.com/

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Pat, Boston, MA — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:19:46 GMT

Steve, the problem we have here is an upcoming presidential election. Press conferences, press conferences, press conferences - to outline their objectives to end the conflict in Iraq. To point fingers. How is this helping the political problems in Iraq? It isn't. I see no proof that anybody is reaching out to the other side of the aisle to work together, day and night, to come to some very hard decisions.

It's more important to them to hold a press conference than to actually DO SOMETHING.

Doesn't anyone in Washington actually know how to end this conflict? No. Because no one will work together on this.

This can't be solved by one politician, or one party.

Maybe someday we'll see Democrats and Republicans at a press conference together, outlining the steps they've worked out to end this conflict. That's what our government is supposed to do.

Don't hold your breath, though. It's an election year coming up. Every man for himself.

The war can wait. And more will die.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

H P Boston — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:21:39 GMT

Steve, You bet your sweet Beebe! Letters to all newspapers too.
The media is so guilty of spreading fear also.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

JIrby, Colorado — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:25:53 GMT

Independent, Texas - The Republican definition of victory in Iraq is dropping the war into the lap of the Democrat president in Jan '09. Maybe we can return the favor in 2016.
It's not unlikely that Bush will see that slight bump upward in his poll numbers as giving him enough political capitol to nuke Iran. Remember, it doesn't take much encouragement for Bush to transform into Caligula. My guess is that at his address tonight he will do his best impression ever of someone with good sense. Get your barf bags ready.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Candyman — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:29:26 GMT

oil prices up
jobless claims up
price of wheat
price of gold up
price of copper up
euro vs dollar up
yen vs. dollar up
pound vs. dollar up
loon vs. dollasr up
How 'bout them Sparties?

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Richard, FL — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:31:59 GMT

Very incomplete article about Hsu WRITTEN by MSNBC staff - gives a grand pass to Hillary - and minimizes the Hillary-Hsu connection.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20754524/

Hillary's their girl!

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:32:00 GMT

If Fred is the 'Britney' of the GOP, Newt is the 'Rosie O'Donnell'.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

New Independent — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:35:04 GMT

Steve, I already e-mailed all my representatives. I let them know how I felt about the Iraq war, and how we should start removing our soldiers, especially since the General in charge can't even say if this makes America any safer. I let them know I was against the STRIVE Act, which reinstates a lot of the comprehensive illegal immigration laws that America STRONGLY let Congress know we were against. However, they are trying to re-enact this only under a different name. I let them know how I felt about Mexican trucks (and before you say I'm prejudiced) I feel the same about Canadian trucks, being allowed to come into the United States. It doesn't help American truck drivers at all! What is the point? I let them know I wanted our borders, North and South, better protected. I wanted to know about the border patrol agents who are in jail for stopping a drug smuggler from Mexico. Needless, to say, I haven't heard a word from any of them . . . I used to be totally Democrat, but after the illegal immigration problem, and the way the Democrats, feel, I have to say I am independent. I will still vote Democrat, but I hope the Democrats listen to the majority of the American people! Everybody, watch Lou Dobbs and the War on the Middle Class!

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

juan, ft lauderdale,fl — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:37:51 GMT

What a sad commentary that 37% of the population mostly Republicans mind you are still crowing about victory in Iraq as if it a football game between rival teams. This brings up images of Jay Leno asking ordinary geography and U.S./World history questions and getting duh and tangential answers ala Miss Teen South Carolina.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Lyn, MD — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:44:16 GMT

And then there’s the Democratic leader, Hillary Clinton, who scores incredibly well on the feeling thermometer with Democrats (72%-13%), but not so well with independents (39%-42%) and Republicans (13%-79%). “It appears their leading candidate doesn’t appeal to non-Democratic voters,” Newhouse tells First Read

It's what many of us have been saying all along. Democrats had better wake up. We can not retake the White House on Democratic votes alone. "Win the battle and lose the war" just like democrats always do.

And when Republicans were asked which Democrat they’d prefer, Obama was first (at 26 percent), followed by New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson (at 23 percent) and John Edwards (at 20 percent). Clinton came in fourth (at 14 percent).

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Clifford Davis — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:52:03 GMT

All of this is the reason i never look at MSNBC...just a bunch of liberal tripe.

ImWithFred

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Rufus Gibbons, DC — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:53:14 GMT

By all means let's have crybaby Newt run he's the man who masterminded the contract on Armerica. "Newt..an immature salamander.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

George — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:53:26 GMT

Hillary the unstoppable?

By: Roger Simon
Sep 13, 2007 06:11 AM EST

"Since it is really too early to ask this question, let’s do it: Can anybody stop Hillary?

Can any of the other Democrats in the race stop Hillary Clinton from getting the nomination? Who? And how?

Yes, it is only mid-September and voters will probably not start voting in Iowa until at least Thanksgiving (if you don’t get that joke, you haven’t been reading Politico enough), but the dynamics have not changed much since the race began.

A bunch of national polls released this week all show the same thing: Hillary is still way ahead of the pack, crushing her nearest rival, Barack Obama.

CNN: Hillary ahead by 23 percentage points.

New York Times/CBS News: Hillary ahead by 18 percentage points.

USA Today/Gallup: Hillary ahead by 21 percentage points.

Rasmussen: Hillary ahead by 21 percentage points.

ABC News/Washington Post: Hillary ahead by 14 percentage points.

RealClearPolitics, which does an excellent job of compiling and averaging the polls, showed Hillary ahead of Obama by an average of 19.6 percentage points in February. Today, it shows her ahead of Obama by an average of 19.4 percentage points.

That’s not much slippage after seven months of campaigning.

And Hillary’s average lead over John Edwards started out at 25.8 percentage points in February and is at an average of 28 percentage points today.

It will be extremely difficult for Hillary to maintain such a huge lead all the way to the beginning of the primary season — polls almost always narrow — but she has a lot of ground she can give away and still be a prohibitive front-runner.

What’s that you say? National polls are largely meaningless because the nominating process is a state-by-state contest?

You are correct! So let’s look at how Hillary is doing in the early-primary states:

In Iowa, Hillary is now ahead by an average of 2.6 percentage points.

In New Hampshire, Hillary is ahead by an average of 17.8 percentage points.

In South Carolina, she is ahead by an average of 11.8 percentage points, in California by an average of 22.3 percentage points and in Michigan by an average of 16 percentage points.

Let’s consider why Hillary was not supposed to be doing this well.

The early rap against her was that she was cold and polarizing. The current rap against her is that she is cold and polarizing and that hatred of her will energize the Republican base and defeat the Democrats in November 2008.

This comes courtesy of Elizabeth Edwards, who recently told Time magazine, “I want to be perfectly clear: I do not think the hatred against Hillary Clinton is justified. I don’t know where it comes from; I don’t begin to understand it. But you can’t pretend it doesn’t exist, and it will energize the Republican base.

Their nominee won’t energize them, Bush won’t, but Hillary as the nominee will. It’s hard for John to talk about, but it’s the reality.”

It may be hard for John to talk about it because he can’t get a word in edgewise, but in any case, the argument has a glimmer of truth to it.

The counterargument, however, is that while Hillary might energize Republicans like no other, she also might energize Democrats like no other. A recent Gallup poll found Hillary “the most well-liked candidate” among Democrats with a “warmth” rating of 82 percent to Obama’s 72 percent and Edwards’ 68 percent.

And Steve Elmendorf, a top Democratic strategist who is supporting but not working for Hillary, says the Republican base will be energized against any Democrat.

“The Republicans will demonize our candidate and say electing a Democrat will lead to free abortions and gay marriage and all the other bogeymen,” he says. “It is not about personalities; they will demonize our candidate on the issues they care about.”

Chris Lehane, who is not aligned with any campaign but worked in Bill Clinton’s White House, says that what will really energize voters on Election Day is their feelings about the past eight years.

“The biggest flaw of the current occupant of the White House is that he does not seem to be up to the job,” Lehane says. “Being up to the job is Hillary’s greatest strength.”

In the beginning, many (including me) thought Hillary would be forced to admit she made a mistake in voting to authorize the Iraq war and would be forced to apologize for it.

That hasn’t happened, and she doesn’t even get asked about it in the debates anymore.

In August, Edwards and Obama were sure they had found the chink in Hillary’s armor: They challenged her to stop taking money from Washington lobbyists, and she refused.

But has that gone anywhere? Not yet. What about her having to return $850,000 in campaign contributions from hinky sources? Might that not damage her? It might.

So far, however, Hillary goes into each debate as the designated adult and emerges the same way. And she has the poll numbers to prove it.

So far.

David Axelrod, Obama’s chief strategist, says that Hillary’s campaign is trying to convince people of the “myth of her inevitability” as the Democratic nominee, but that it really is just a myth and a myth that eventually will catch up with her.

“Hillary is a quasi-incumbent in this race and, as such, a lot flows to her,” Axelrod says. “She is a way station for a lot of voters. But as this thing becomes more engaged, particularly in the early states, that will change. And I think Iowa will set the tone.”

In Iowa, Axelrod says, “Our numbers are a little different than these polls, but they all say the same thing: It is a very tight three-way race, and it might very well be throughout (the primary process), and we are comfortable with that.

“We have an enormous amount of enthusiasm and an organization powered by that enthusiasm,” Axelrod says. “And that is going to tell at the end.”

The sooner it tells, the better for all Hillary’s opponents. They really don’t have that much time.
Did I say Iowa might start voting by Thanksgiving? Make that Halloween."

Pretty much sums up where things stand.

George

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

GW 1970 — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:54:06 GMT

Hey, Jerry, if you're making comparisions, how about

Don Rumsfeld as Barney Fife

Dick Cheney as Satan

Karl Rove as the Ned Beatty character from "Deliverance"

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

John B, Des Moines, IA — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:55:11 GMT

So a $25M ad campaign and month-long full court press by the administration had managed to get a few more Republicans back on board with the war. Like that'll last.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Sierra, SF — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:56:31 GMT

'....Hillary Clinton, who scores incredibly well on the feeling thermometer with Democrats (72%-13%)...'

Wise up Democrats !!
Start paying attention to the news

'...but not so well with independents (39%-42%)...'

Independents know Hillary is un-ethical and corrupt !!
The Norman Hsu scandal only reinforces Hillary's corrupt reputation.
According to First Read, Hillary's campaign KNEW HSU'S MONEY WAS TAINTED !!
But, they took it, anyway !!
Independents probably can imagine the same old pathetic soap opera in the White House.
Selling out American jobs to Indian and Chinese outsourcing !!
Sending ouur middle class jobs overseas.

'...and Republicans (13%-79%). “It appears their leading candidate doesn’t appeal to non-Democratic voters,” Newhouse tells First Read.'

This means evil Hillary will ENERGIZE THE REPUBLICANS to vote !!
Hillary will crystalize Social conservatives AGAINST THE DEMOCRATS !!
A Clinton nomination means a Democratic loss !!

'leading candidate doesn’t appeal to non-Democratic voters'

Gee, I wonder why ??
Nobody's perfect ....

Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandal and divisiveness

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:58:32 GMT

Richard in FL.....if Hillary is First Read's girl, then why so much coverage of the Hsu situation....and NONE AT ALL about Mitt Romney's National Fund Raising Co-Chairman's August 9th indicment on 23 criminal counts including Mail Fraud, Bankruptcy Fraud, Money Laundering, Perjury, and Obstruction of Justice
...and Alan Fabian wasn't JUST Romney's Campaign Financing guy....he was a major contributor to the Giulliani campaign as well.
How come we haven't heard a word about this from the mainstream media?
Talk about giving a pass!

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

juan,ft lauderdale,fl — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:05:08 GMT

Clifford- That is why I DO NOT WATCH FOX...just a bunch of lying right wing enablers of 30% of the population that idolizes the Shrub. Fred is Bush light....never going to happen.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:06:02 GMT

Wise up Democrats !!
Start paying attention to the news

'...but not so well with independents (39%-42%)...'

sierra...
That's actually a pretty good positive to negative ratio considering it's among voters who aren't registered Democrats.
Most independents are going to be encouraged not to vote for Democrats anyhow, like they ALWAYS are in EVERY election.
In this case she is only three points away from equally matching positive/negative numbers among indpendents.
In addition to being well within the margin for error, it's almost an offset which means it won't have that much of an effect, if any at all.
Sorry sierra......but you're going to have to find something else to pick on.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Bob — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:08:00 GMT

Good move by Democrat canidates for president to not criticize that disgusting MoveOn ad calling General Petraeus a Traitor. Keep it up and the Republicans will win in a land slide in 08'. I guess that's the Dem's definition of "supporting our troups" by calling their General a traitor.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:16:44 GMT

".....Independents know Hillary is un-ethical and corrupt !!
The Norman Hsu scandal only reinforces Hillary's corrupt reputation.
According to First Read, Hillary's campaign KNEW HSU'S MONEY WAS TAINTED !! ....."

ah, look again sierra.
There isn't a single shred of evidence to suggest that Hillary, or for that matter any other candidate who took money from HSU, knew about his past. (That would include OBAMA by the way.)
At least Hillary's campaign said they will give Hsu's money back.
In contrast, Mitt Romney says he won't give back the money that came from Alan Fabian's sources. Fabian was indicted August 9th on 23 seperate counts of Mail Fraud, Bankruptcy Fraud, Money Laundering, Perjury, and Obstruction of Justice.
Also, Fabian gave money to Giulliani too.
Why aren't you "railing" about THAT?

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Rick, WS, NC — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:20:09 GMT

So I sure would like one of those 37% who think we arw winning to define what that means in their little pea brains anyway...I know shrubs definition has changed about 30 times and I think he has the righties conned into thinking that support for the war is the honorable thing or something...too bad none of that 37% actually wants to serve or anything...

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Sammy Davis, Brandon, Florida — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:20:15 GMT

IT'S BUSH'S WAR STUPID. SEND HIM THE FRIGHIN' TRILLION DOLLAR BILL.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Steve, San Diego — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:21:28 GMT

Jerry, I spent time in the Carter Navy, Reagan Navy, Bush I Navy as well as the Clinton U.S. Navy. At least I served. You chicken hawks only gripe, moan and smear.

As for the bad guys in Iraq, I am reminded of the movie Witness when the grandfather asked the how the little boy would know who the bad guys are. Do the bad guys in Iraq wear special uniforms identfying them as such? Neon signs? Yellow pages?

Again, what is this mission GEN Delayus keeps talking about for our combat troops? I don't have a problem with special forces and training forces being in Iraq a little while longer. I just don't see why we need so many good men and women in our armed forces to be police officers in a civil conflict.

Did the surge protect the Sheik who was killed today?

Finally, where is this new War Czar we promoted? I did not se him once this week before Congress.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester NY — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:24:05 GMT

".....'...and Republicans (13%-79%). “It appears their leading candidate doesn’t appeal to non-Democratic voters,” Newhouse tells First Read.'

This means evil Hillary will ENERGIZE THE REPUBLICANS to vote !!
Hillary will crystalize Social conservatives AGAINST THE DEMOCRATS !!
A Clinton nomination means a Democratic loss !!....."

sierra, sierra, sierra....
why didn't you cut and paste THIS part;
"(Democratic) presidential front-runners have solid leads over their GOP counterparts in individual match-ups."
That means HILLARY has "solid leads" in head to head match-ups with her republican rivals, as well.
I guess that part just slipped your mind, didn't it sierra?
Nice try sierra.
But, once again you have fallen way short of making any valid point.
Poor sierra.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

H P Boston — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:28:45 GMT

J Merle Sure is strange me thinks. Maybe we had better get Sierra on this, he Loves to rant and go on and on, and on..so Sierra go to it! Give this thing legs, a voice, THE SCREAM...........AL FABIAN, ROAMNEY

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Wally, Denver, Colorado — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:40:50 GMT

Please sit down and think about the latest Clinton scandel. Do you want ChiCom influence at the executive level? Also for being named the smartest women in the woman, she does not recall very much, is always suprised and shocked, and apparently doesn't know much about anything when asked. This is the personality of a small child that is mad for not getting their ice creme cone!

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Bud, Oakland, CA — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:42:37 GMT

Hillary,

You go girl. Only you can save the country!

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Blue state baby — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:47:24 GMT

I can't believe in this day and age of education and technology that 37% of our people are still idiots.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

New Independent — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:50:15 GMT

Hey Bob, how did you feel about the "Swift Boat" ads? Did you have the same indignation, or was that o.k.?

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Mary Weathers, Canton, Ohio — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:52:05 GMT

A new strategy for Iraq, "impeach" George Bush.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

JJ in NJ — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:59:57 GMT

If Newt Gingrich is the new Republican savior, they really are scraping the bottom of the barrel now. It's appalling just how moronic the entire Republican field is. But of course, if you're going to have candidates who believe the world was created in six days by a big, all-powerful daddy-figure who lives on a cloud in the sky, this is what you get.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

kenn — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:02:26 GMT

VICTORY= A safe,stable IRAQ able to defend itself and not be a threat to the area or the US.Take your time 10 years what do you think,OPEN ENDED,TIMELINE Bush is fine how about you.Now he might have changed the definition of VICTORY but you will agree

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Susan, Miami — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:04:05 GMT

J Merle and Juan,you are totally correct! I believe when election day rolls around, most independents will vote democratic(that will be Hillary), because the repub nominees are soo horrible and they will learn to not be so afraid of Hillary-once they see she is on their side. Many repubs will go down in flames.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:09:23 GMT

".....J Merle Sure is strange me thinks. Maybe we had better get Sierra on this, he Loves to rant and go on and on, and on..so Sierra go to it! Give this thing legs, a voice, THE SCREAM...........AL FABIAN, ROAMNEY
H P Boston (Sent Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:28 AM)....."

I can only garnish one of two things from HP's post here.
Either he's saying that he's intellectually incapable of debating against me, and wants someone else to do it for him;
OR
He's calling Sierra his "washerwoman."
It's one of those two things for sure.
But, I can't tell which.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Frank, Minot, ND — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:14:28 GMT

Blue State Baby,

Because someone disagrees with you they are an idiot? That is a very close minded attitude. It is not that people are idiots, it is the fact that people do not talk and really think anymore and beleive everything the 30 minute nightly news tells them. They must take in the information and process the info to formulate an opinion. Not just what the News channels say..... Technology is a facilitator and not the answer... It still requires human interface and I find it hard to beleive 37% of the population are idiots. If this is the case the educational system is a failure after all the billions of dollars dumped into the programs. Is this not one of the same subjects the Democrats harp about every election year. Why does it not improve? I thought the Clintons solved all these problems during their 8 years in DC? Your comments are the conclusion of a pavlovian nature.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

J. Merle Stanley Westchester, NY — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:15:00 GMT

".....Please sit down and think about the latest Clinton scandel. Do you want ChiCom influence at the executive level? Also for being named the smartest women in the woman, she does not recall very much, is always suprised and shocked, and apparently doesn't know much about anything when asked. This is the personality of a small child that is mad for not getting their ice creme cone!

Wally, Denver, Colorado (Sent Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:40 AM)....."

By contrast Wally, let's look at the Mitt Romney-Gigolo Rudy 'G'-Alan Fabian scandal;
Do we want someone in the White House who's National Fundraising Co-Chairman or one of whom's major contributors is an Indicted Felon?
(Alan Fabian, a major conributor to Rudy Giulliani's Campaign, and Mitt Romney's Nation Fundrasing Co-Chairman, was INDICTED on 23 counts of Mail Fraud, Bankruptcy Fraud, Money Laundering, Perjury, and Obstruction of Justice on August 9th, 2007.)

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

LaToya, Compton, CA — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:21:58 GMT

Mr. BUSCH and Chainey are a sckunk and raskal, just like Richard Nickson was in the 1980's.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Mike K, Denver — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:25:07 GMT

<<Uhhhh Steve?

The goal is to take out the bad guys so the country can take care of themselves.

Me thinks you spent too much time in the Clinton navy guy......

My Senators know to toe the line......
My Democrat in the house....he better remember that this is a military town and we support the military. He better know which side of the bread his butter is on. >>

THis is from Jerry of Corpus Christi posting above, btw.

So tell me, your town really enjoys watching its young men and women go off to a war with no end in sight and have better and better odds every day of not returning home? Some supporter of the military THAT town is.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

H P Boston — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:28:32 GMT

No debate J Merle, I agree with you , I think it strange We have not seen or heard enough of the Al Fabian criminality.
I (she) wanted Sierra(he) to jump on his usual bandwagon and spout about the repukes instead of the Dems he says he favors(?)
J. Merle I could not possibly take Sierra to task as well as you! Bravo!

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

CitizenJ — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:35:36 GMT

George,

Your unnecessarily and annoyingly long post can be responded to with one statement - and, ironically, it is your own:

"Yes, it is only mid-September and voters will probably not start voting in Iowa until at least Thanksgiving (if you don’t get that joke, you haven’t been reading Politico enough), but the dynamics have not changed much since the race began."

The dynamics haven't changed because....(gasp!)no one is paying attention yet except the people who take the time to get on these blogs.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:40:43 GMT

Susan....Hillary is leading in the polling data we have now, with a split electorate because of the total number of candidates in the race at this point.
When the field narrows, her numbers will only go up.
BUT....the "WE HATE HILLARY SOCIETY" led by people like Sierra, and the republiCANT biased/conservatively owned media, doesn't want you to know that.
If YOU can see that, and I can see that.......then others do as well.
You are absolutely right. Hillary is going to be the next President, and a good one at that.
They want you to think

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

bb — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:44:36 GMT

I notice yet another person(Sunni leader) who shook Bushs hand or anyone who touches him or gets close to him, either gets blown to pieces, loses their job and or reputation and their lives turns to s---. Hes poisen ,hes the black plague, he friggen toxic!! Hes our president..yeeeoww! I certainly won't be watching him tonight...something might happen to me.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Molly, Iowa City — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:45:08 GMT

Bob,

You obviously didn't see Sen. Biden on Meet the Press. He was asked about the Move on NYT ad, and said "I don't buy into that. This is an honorable guy. He's telling the truth. I have his letter here just like you just quoted from. He acknowledges-look, by its own measure, the surge has failed. What was the reason for the surge? To provide breathing room. For what purpose? To allow the sectarian warring factions to work out a political compromise. He acknowledges that's not there. He's telling the truth. They've been some tactical gains, but they have no ultimate bearing, at this point, on the prospect of there being a political settlement in Iraq that would allow American troops to come home without leaving chaos behind. So I, I just-I think that's pretty hard-edged. He's an honorable guy. I disagree with what his recommendation is likely to be, but I don't think he is cooking the books. He's stating the part that he believes is true. There's been some limited tactical success, but quite frankly, it's irrelevant to this central problem. The central problem is the sectarian was. If every jihadist in Iraq was killed tomorrow, we'd still have a major civil war killing thousands-wounding thousands of Americans and killing hundreds of Americans just since the surge began."

So, Bob you're wrong, while Senator Biden think Petraeus is wrong, he didn't agree with the ad, and said he thinks the guys honorable.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

craig, Illinos — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:01:03 GMT

Wise up Sierra – Hillary is the strongest Dem candidate. She’s the only one to experience and survive the republican attack machine. She’s cool, calm and smart. Anyone who has witnessed her stellar performances during the various debates knows that. And the CNN and MSNBC polls released this week BOTH show her beating Giuliani.

Ready for change? Hillary’s ready to lead!

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

MK,MO — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:06:18 GMT

if anyone likes to look at polling numbers look at how many people won't vote for hillary, there is no way she can win the general election, never could, if she manages to get nominated the dems will be throwing away an otherwise easy win, then it's another 4 years of what we have now

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

George — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:11:29 GMT

"George,

Your unnecessarily and annoyingly long post can be responded to with one statement - and, ironically, it is your own:

CitizenJ (Sent Thursday, September 13, 2007 12:35 PM)"

What's really funny is that the post is from Roger Simon @Politico, not me. Go complain about the length of the post to him.
What's ironic is that your criticism is apparently based on NOT carefully reading what you comment on. While that doesn't seem to be unusual for this place, it makes me wonder what got your dander up so much that you felt the need to say, "The dynamics haven't changed because....(gasp!)no one is paying attention yet except the people who take the time to get on these blogs."

When it come to you, it's ironic that despite the fact that you are on this blog and even felt you just HAD to say something you weren't paying as much attention as maybe you should.
I take no offense at your mistake, but you can reach Mr. Simon at politico.com if you would like to criticize HIM.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Sierra, SF — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:26:58 GMT

J. Merle Stanley: 'republiCANT voters are very disciplined when it comes to their voting habbits. For the most part, no Democratic candidate is going to appeal to them regardless of who it is.......... continuing inanities ......'

Merle, one Democrat will energize the religious right, Hillary Clinton.
She'll bring out social conservatives to vote Republican.
And, Hillary will NOT WIN INDEPENDENT VOTERS !
Independents will vote for Obama or for Edwards
They won't vote for crooked little Hillary
Sorry, no dice !!

J Merle + H P Boston, Hsu was a 'HillRaiser', not a 'DemRaiser' or a 'DoddRaiser'
It's NOT A DEMOCRATIC SCANDAL !!
IT'S HILLARY'S SCANDAL AND CORRUPTION !!
Norman Hsu was probably the largtest contributor to Hillary.
If someone else raised more money for Hillary, they're probably crooked, too.
Why doesn't Hillary send her list of 'HillRaisers' to America's Most Wanted ??
They'll figure out which ones are crooks
(probably a majority of 'HillRaisers')
First Read thought that Hillary knew the money was dirty. Yet, Hillary still accepted dirty money !!

You both seem to think that Republican criminality justifies Hillary's criminality.
Mommy, Mitty did it, too !!

Don't count on Hillary's numbers going up.
When people start paying attention to the election, they'll notice Hillary's continuing scandals.

Did you two guys take Carrie back to Hillary's Fueherbunker ??
The mmembers of the Clinton cult seem to come and go on this blog.
Does the brainwashing wear off after a while ??

Lovingly....

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

CitizenJ — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:47:46 GMT

George,

While my language, admittedly, may have been confusing, I never accused you of authoring the article, but simply of being responsible for the post. Usually, people post links to the articles so they don't take up exorbitant amounts of space. Additionally, when you post an article, you need to take responsibility for the views expressed by that article as similar to your own, unless you specify that you are in opposition to its implications and conclusions.

As a result of this reasonable assumption, it follows that you agree with the implications of the article.

The intention of my remark was simply to call attention to the fact that they dynamics haven't changed for good reason, and that reason is that very few people are paying attention at this point in the campaign season, and that polls are not the tell-all indicator they are perceived to be.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

George — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:14:29 GMT

People don't have to be paying attention to the polls to state their preferences. Your Emily Litella moment aside, are you saying that the people POLLED aren't paying attention, or that people don't pay attention to the results?
Generally speaking, those who say the polls don't matter are usually supporting a person who's behind in the polls. They are what they are, and they say what they say.
Tell us when, or if, there ever comes a time when the polls will have any meaning, and when it will be ok with you to put them up, and while you're at it, what are some of the other things we can look at to tell us where the campaigns stand at any point in time? Every time I watch the news or read a paper, they talk only about the polls.
As to the intention of your remark; It sure seemed to be to insult the person responsible for the article, whoever they were, unless calling something, "unnecessarily and annoyingly long", is some new kind of compliment.
As to taking, "responsibility for the views expressed by that article.", I do. It says it's too soon to tell, which it obviously is. Your seeming offense at the amount of space taken up by posting it is hard to understand as there are posts here that are twice as long and that quote articles or polls that you haven't seemed bothered by, so it must be something else that inspired your critique.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:24:09 GMT

Sierra - Kindly leave me out of your rants. Thanks much. :)

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Molly, Iowa City — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:38:42 GMT

Bob,

Not only did Sen. Biden criticize the Moveon ad on Sunday's MTP, but Sen. Tom Harkin, considered by many to be one of the most liberal US Senators also critcized the ad according to todays Des Moines Register.

"Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin today criticized a left-leaning advocacy group for an advertisement it ran criticizing U.S. Gen. David Petraeus before he testified before Congress this week.

"It was a bad choice of words," the Democrat said in a telephone interview. "I would have said, 'Petraeus, mistaken again.' But 'Betray Us?' That's going too far."

Harkin was referring to MoveOn.org's full-page advertisement in Monday's New York Times, which featured a photograph of the U.S. commander in Iraq above the words, "General Petraeus or General Betray Us?"

But Harkin stopped short of advising the Democratic candidates for president, many of whom are his Senate colleagues, to take his tone in condemning the liberal group's ads.

"I didn't like it. Certainly, General Petraeus is a patriot and a good American," Harkin said. "I just think he's wrong."

I'm sure many other Democrats have criticized the ad, unlike when the slanderous swift boat ads were aired, and only McCain spoke out against them.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Steve, San Diego — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:59:58 GMT

Mike K-

Actually this war is tearing up this region, but it is quietly handled by individuals. We are a military town and we enthusiastically follow orders. We have no choice but to suppoort our families throughtout the region. It is not just the civil thing to do, but a regenerative community spirit thing to do.

That said, there are many who silently question our mission, why we were lied to in the beginning, and why national politics inside the beltway hampers any foreseeable solution. W no longer has carte blanche privileges in our area.

I suspect this region will be split 50/50 in the next national general election. That will be monumental given the rich GOP history in San Diego and Orange counties.

My point earlier was the enormous falling out incumbant republicans face by standing by W, and not standing by their constiuents. Maybe their will some movement on both sides of the aisle soon to end this national disaster, and my chattering will become moot.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

CitizenJ — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:26:18 GMT

George,

One, I don't recall any posts on here as long as yours, and definitely not twice as long. So if you could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

Two, I have no problem with the length of the article. I really don't care. It just seems prudent to post a link to it instead of posting the whole thing when it is that long.

That is really insignificant though.

Three, I am not saying that EVERY person polled is not paying attention, but it is likely that a great many of them aren't. Paying attention is not a prerequisite for being selected for the poll. And those who are polled, but aren't paying attention, will likely say they support the name that is most familiar to them: Clinton.

Four, I actually think that people pay TOO MUCH attention to the poll results. A lot of people see who is leading the polls and it greatly influences their decison. And since my view, as previously stated, is that these polls are neither indicitive of how close the race truly is (at this point) nor are they reflective of the candidates positions/views in any way, they should not be so heavily relied upon.

Although I agree with your statement that many people tend to discount polls unless their candidate is leading, I have posted many remarks previously about how little stock I, personally, put in polls, no matter who is ahead.

And finally, my suggestion as to what to do regarding how to guage where the campaigns stand: While polls represent how the polled citizens feel about the candidates at a particular time, it is not representative of what the candidates stand for. So, I suggest people go to the campaign websites, read their books, do research on what legislation they have voted for or against, and not pay AS MUCH attention to what a few "likely caucus goers" think.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Blue state baby — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:55:11 GMT

I still hold to the fact that the 37% that still thinks bush is doing a good job are idiots.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:30:19 GMT

".....Merle, one Democrat will energize the religious right, Hillary Clinton. "

SIERRA...SO YOU'RE SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO STAY HOME AND NOT VOTE, OR VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT IF HILLARY DOES NOT RUN? IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, THEN I THINK IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE.

".....She'll bring out social conservatives to vote Republican. ....."

SIERRA.....AND AH, SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR OBAMA?.....I DON'T THINK SO! hahahahahahah

".....And, Hillary will NOT WIN INDEPENDENT VOTERS !
Independents will vote for Obama or for Edwards
They won't vote for crooked little Hillary
Sorry, no dice !!....."

SIERRA.....INDEPENDENT VOTERS REPRESENTED APPROXIMATELY 1% OF THE ELECTORATE IN 2004.
IN 2000 THEY REPRESENTED ABOUT 3%.
AL GORE DIDN'T WIN THE "INDEPENDENT VOTE" IN 2000, AND EDWARDS PRESENCE ON THE TICKET DIDN'T SWAY INDEPENDENTS TO VOTE DEMOCRATIC EITHER, IN 2004.
THE FACT IS, THAT INDEPENDENTS ARE ALWAYS ENCOURAGED TO VOTE AGAINST DEMOCRATS, NO MATTER WHO THE DEM' NOMINEE IS.
YOU SEEM TO BE CONCERNED WITH SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 1%-3% OF THE VOTE, WHILE IGNORING THE REST OF US.
HILLARY WILL DO JUST FINE, WITH THE INDEPEPENDENT VOTE. SHE CERTAINLY CAN'T DO ANY WORSE THAN PREVIOUS DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES HAVE DONE IN THAT REGARD. (PERSONALLY, I DON'T THINK INDEPENDENTS MAKE THE DIFFERENCE. BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS DO.)

"..... Merle + H P Boston, Hsu was a 'HillRaiser', not a 'DemRaiser' or a 'DoddRaiser'
It's NOT A DEMOCRATIC SCANDAL !!
IT'S HILLARY'S SCANDAL AND CORRUPTION !!
Norman Hsu was probably the largtest contributor to Hillary.
If someone else raised more money for Hillary, they're probably crooked, too......"

SIERRA.....I HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU, BUT HSU GAVE MONEY TO THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN TOO.
REGARDLESS, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT ANY CANDIDATE HE GAVE MONEY TO, KNEW OF HIS BACKGROUND.
FURTHERMORE, HILLARY HAS AGREED TO GIVE ALL OF HSU'S MONEY BACK.

".....You both seem to think that Republican criminality justifies Hillary's criminality.
Mommy, Mitty did it, too !!....."

WHAT "CRIMINALITY" WOULD THAT BE, SIERRA?
LAST TIME I LOOKED, HILLARY WAS NEVER CHARGED WITH ANYTHING, AND THERE ARE NO CHARGES PENDING.
TIS' YOU, AND YOU ALONE SIERRA, WHO, WITHOUT A SINGLE SHRED OF CREDIBLE EVIDENCE AND NOT A WHOLE LOT OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE SUBJECT EITHER, HAS DECIDED THAT HILLARY IS GUILTY OF SOME MYSTICAL MAGICAL CRIME THAT NOBODY ELSE, INCLUDING THE FBI KNOWS ABOUT.....THAT'S KINDA' SILLY, ISN'T IT?
OH, AND THE LAST TIME I LOOKED HILLARY'S NATIONAL CAMPAIGN FUNDRAISING CHAIRMAN IS NOT UNDER INDICTMENT FOR MONEY LAUNDERING. MITT ROMNEY'S IS.
SO IT ISN'T A MATTER OF "MOMMY, MITTY DID IT TOO" AS YOU HAVE TRIED TO MAKE IT.
HILLARY'S PEOPLE HAVEN'T BEEN ACCUSED OF DOING ANYTHING WRONG. IT ISN'T A CRIME NOT TO KNOW ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE'S PERSONAL BUSINESS. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE AWARE OF THIS OR NOT (PROBABLY NOT BECAUSE YOU AREN'T VERY KNOWLEDGABLE). BUT, THE G.O.P. RECEIVED 7.2 MILLION DOLLARS IN CAMPAIGN MONEY THAT CAME FROM PEOPLE WITH CRIMINAL RECORDS DURING THE 2002 MID-TERM ELECTION CYCLE. I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS IN THE GREATER SCHEME OF THINGS.....BECAUSE IT WASN'T AND ISN'T A CRIME.
MY MAIN ISSUE, AND YOU SEEM TO ENJOY THIS, IS THAT THE MEDIA HAS CHOSEN TO HARP ON THE HILLARY-HSU CONNECTION, WHILE PAYING NO ATTENTION WHATSEOEVER TO THE ROMNEY-FABIAN-GIULLIANI CONNECTION.
IN THE END, CRIMINAL CHARGES HAVE BEEN FILED AGAINST MITT ROMNEY'S PEOPLE, AND NO SUCH THING IS HAPPENING TO ANYONE CONNECTED WITH HILLARY.

".....Don't count on Hillary's numbers going up.
When people start paying attention to the election, they'll notice Hillary's continuing scandals......"

ONCE AGAIN I'LL ASK....WHAT "CONTINUEING" SCANDALS WOULD THAT BE? NO CRIMINAL CHARGES HAVE EVER BEEN FILED AGAINST HILLARY, AND NONE ARE PRESENTLY PENDING.
WHAT DO YOU DO, MAKE THIS STUFF UP AS YOU FO ALONG, SIERRA?
IT WOULD APPEAR THATS WHAT YOU DO.

"....Did you two guys take Carrie back to Hillary's Fueherbunker ??
The mmembers of the Clinton cult seem to come and go on this blog.
Does the brainwashing wear off after a while ??....."

THE NAZI REGIME WAS VERY ADEPT AT SMEARING, AND DEMONIZING OTHERS FOR THE PURPOSE OF STIRRING UP HATRED AGAINST THEM. SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU ARE THE ONE DOING THAT SORT OF THING HERE.
SO, IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A COMPARISON BETWEEN ANYONE AND THE NAZI'S.....LOOK AT YOURSELF FIRST.
HILLARY IS THE FRONT RUNNER FOR THE PRESIDENCY SIERRA.
NO AMOUNT OF YOUR SMALL MINDED, G.O.P.-LIKE HATE-SPEAK AND SMEAR TACTICS, OR SMARMY ANECDOTES WILL CHANGE THAT.
.....AND I HATE TO BREAK IT TO YA'.....BUT OBAMA AINT GOIN' NOWHERE.

Ta' Ta' Sierra.............

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:46:58 GMT

".....No debate J Merle, I agree with you , I think it strange We have not seen or heard enough of the Al Fabian criminality.
I (she) wanted Sierra(he) to jump on his usual bandwagon and spout about the repukes instead of the Dems he says he favors(?)
J. Merle I could not possibly take Sierra to task as well as you! Bravo! ....."
H P Boston (Sent Thursday, September 13, 2007 12:28 PM

Then it's my bad HP, I didn't understand what you were trying to say.
My apologies to you.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

LC Independent FL — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:41:20 GMT

Mr. Stanley...first of all thank you for putting Sierra in her place on your 4:30 pm blog. I just wanted to say that I am an independent who has never voted for a republican...ever! I voted for Al Gore in 2000 and I voted for Kerry/Edwards in 2004. Although I have no problem voting for Hillary or John Edwards, Joe Biden would be my first choice, and you are right, speaking for myself...I would not vote for Barack Obama. Also, I have to wonder since the 2000 election how many people actually changed their voting status to Independent.
From the Wikipedia ~ While as of 2006 approximately 38% of Americans identify as independents in national polls…
I also read that as of 2000 independents are more likely to vote democratic 2-1, mostly because of the Iraq war.
Also, From Independentvoting.org ~ The reactionary thrust of the Republican Party and the visionlessness of the Democratic Party have left a political void. That is why 35% of Americans are independents, rather than identifying themselves with one or the other major party.
I would consider that a fairly large voting population and definitely one that could swing an election.
I certainly can't speak for anyone else, but I do hope that most Independents are thinking along the same path as I am. Later ~ LC

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Sally Rider — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:34:22 GMT

I just wanted to say that I am an independent who has never voted for a republican...ever! I voted for Al Gore in 2000 and I voted for Kerry/Edwards in 2004.

Well, it doesn't sound like your much of an independent then does it? An independent is usually a Democrat that is to embarrassed to say so.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:51:38 GMT

LC....thank you for your supportive commentary.
However, Wikipedia is not a credible source for incontroveratble information. Entries can be, and are made by people who use the site, and information can be changed/altered by visitors.
Furthermore, I would say that independentvoting.org has a vested onterest in telling you that 35% of the public is "independent."
I think if you checked the voter rolls, you would see that the number of registered independents is far less than that.
Maybe between 5 and 10 percent nationwide.

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

LC, Independent FL — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:32:21 GMT

Sally Rider: Sorry to disappoint you, but being an independent does not make me an "embarrassed Democrat", it simply means I have voted for the party who I felt at the time shared more of the same view points with me, or maybe you just don't know the definition of "independent". You may call it siding with the lesser of two evils, if you like.
However, since you have decided that independents are "democrats too embarassed to say so", my reply to you is - that's just fine with me, as at this point I would rather be defined as an embarrassed democrat than a shamed republican. BTW...it's you're - not your, and too - not to. Try to have a nice day. LC

First thoughts: Bush as Lloyd Carr?

Chris, Colo. Springs, CO — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 04:35:11 GMT

Hillary beat herself before she could announce!

50% of Liberal lunatics absolutely refuse to vote for her under ANY circumstances.

Looks like there will be no waiting at the voting booths.