MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

MK,MO — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:08:16 GMT

I really don't care for moveon.org, but I think the statement in they're ad would be hard to prove false

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

nuanced — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:12:25 GMT

They are wrong about no one being fooled by Bush. Too many are nuance-challenged. Just look at the headlines in the papers and other media "Bush backs troop withdrawal". Apparently major news outlets and educated journalists are fooled, can't do nuance or else are ethically challenged.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

KENN"LOOK AT YOUR OWN TRUST MEDIA"O — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:13:18 GMT

He never betrayed my trust I never trusted him.The people I trusted are the lower level government workers that betryed a trust to the american people.Cabinet officers like Colin Powell betrayed me George tenet Betrayed me,BUSH WAS ALWAYS SHIFTY FROM HIS DRUG DAYS TO THE DUI and always worming his way out or in VIETNAM TEXAS RANGERS

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Bob Baruch, Middletown, CT — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:14:24 GMT

Does Bush think we're all as stupid as he is? The stupid one's work just down the street from him and they're easy to identify. They're the one's that are cheering him on. Back when I went to high school, my English teacher made me spend many hours of detention with him for bad behavior. As he stood over me, he told me that "You, sir are a boob, and the age of the boob is upon us." He was right back in the late 50's when he said it but he was six decades early. The age of the boob is with us now, and they've all been elected.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

PJ — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:33:39 GMT

Its what makes America great, we are called upon, it is our duty to question our leaders. Good job MoveOn.
Now watch the fascists call them unpatriotic traitors. But Sean, its not working, Americans today are more capable of critical thinking than the sheep in Nazi Germany!

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Lee Holmes — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:53:41 GMT

No FR,its actually not. Thus,to disprove the unending suspicion that the New York Times is the Little Red Book of America in the print media Dept; it should forthwith accept any full page ad by a rival conservative organization and charge the same amount for running it as they did MOVEON.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

HMT-MI — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:03:04 GMT

Great ad Move-on.Will support move-on and just sent them another donation.Have been proud to be a member for 2 years.Rudy just a copy cat and trying to demonize Hillary.He needs to take care of his own dirty closets.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Martha — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:08:02 GMT

No comment is needed, I'll just say "AMEN"!

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Frances M. Rogers — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:08:41 GMT

Good Job Move On. Keep speaking Truth to Power.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

VRWC — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:18:02 GMT

Backfired...oops! It's Bush we hate! Bush lied, people died! Go Patraeus!...What a load of crap! If you Dems can't control your lunatic fringe, you will not have congressional power for long. Why don't you Dems try to be a wee bit intellectually honest and state that President Clinton lied about Iraq WMD, VP Gore lied about Iraq WMD, Senator Kerry lied about Iraq WMD, and all your "put your finger in the wind" congressional members lied about WMD since all were reading from the same NIE report. Secondly, since your being honest, why don't you state that it was the Clinton administration that changed US policy toward Iraq from one of containment to one of regime change. How convenient for you to forget. Your party will go down in the annals of history as the party of treason.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

JIrby, Colorado — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:18:18 GMT

The people at MoveOn think no one can be fooled by this? Guess again, my liberal friends. You don't know your morons. The recent uptick in Bush's poll numbers illustrate this. How can you change your mind back and forth like that? What changes is the appearance that the crap he is throwing is beginning to stick to the wall. If it wasn't fairly obvious to you that Bush was the wrong way to go before the first election, you are too stupid to vote. But you serve the establishment. You serve the people who oppress you. You are similar to a suicide bomber, but instead of killing yourself for what you have been told is the truth, you voluntarily enslave yourself and your progeny because the man has tricked you into carrying out his will. And you really are ready to die to make him wealthier, so in that sense, you are not as honorable as a suicide bomber. You are not only an enemy to the people, you are an enemy to yourself and your family. So yeah, you bought into the Repubs recent smoke and mirrors routine, just like they knew you would. They own your mind.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Mark Thieme — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:47:44 GMT

A "koan" is a question without an answer commonly employed to shake people out of their mundane thought patterns.

Here is the koan of the day:

What is the difference between O J Simpson and George W Bush?

One more for the road:

What is the sound of one lip quivering?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

jjg, ms — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:48:13 GMT

vrwc - <laughing> wow, are you confused!

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

R.Merrell — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:54:12 GMT

Bush is nothing but a street-corner hustler playing the shell game. He's an illusionist who's whole presidency has been based on slogans without substance - from "mission accomplished' to the latest buzz-phrase, "return on success". MoveOn.org is absolutely right to point out Bush's empty rhetoric. Rhetoric meant for no one other than Republicans in Congress and what's left of his right-wing, conservative base. His plan is no plan for Iraq other than to tinker with the edges while our troops continue to die, and the cost of the war approaches a trillion dollars. Can't you just hear him scream and rush for his seldom used veto pen if Congress passed a trillion dollar health care plan or aid to education plan or infrastructure repair and upgrade plan or air traffic control and airport upgrade plan or school lunch for underpriviledged children plan or national parks plan here in the U.S. - or any number of other underfunded or unfunded programs for the benefit of U.S. citizens? No money, no money, no money - except for Iraq for years and years to come. Quite the conservative, our G.W. Bush.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

DEMs Fighting Back Against demonic Wingnuts — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:54:51 GMT

VRWC- are you a Jerry in CC wannabe?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

AP from IL — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:02:14 GMT

VRWC, There are other ways to promote regime change. Even though many speculated about and possibly even believed in the existence of WMD, Bush was the only one stupid enough to start a war over it. I really don't think shouting "they did too" is a good enough excuse in this case. Face it, your guy screwed up.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Mark Thieme — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:02:25 GMT

R Merrel: spot on

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

CWRV — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:07:54 GMT

"Your party will go down in the annals of history as the party of treason. " Let's talk about the party that will go down in the anals of history - you deluded fool.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

KENN"WE GAVE THE AUTHORITY NOT DIRECTION"O — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:15:15 GMT

vrwc awesome suggestion on how the demos can keep control of congress we will be putting it next to the one where you tell them how to win the 06 elections,thanks for the advice on the lunitic fringe seeing as you repuckers know about crazy, but we will wait and see who eats crow you or the american people.By the by are you suggesting that by kerry et al lied about WMD are you inferring that bush also lied or that kerry didnt lie which is it they all lie and you like repucker liars better then dem liars.SAD OUTLOOK ON AMERICA

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

kenn"HE said he crys yea for himself"O — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:19:07 GMT

The sound of one lip quivering is what bush makes trying to summon up compassion for all the death and destruction he helped create by not thinking with his brain instead of the seat of his pants

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Class Warrior, D.C. — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:23:00 GMT

Nuanced and jirby are right, pj is wrong. The American people have become sheep, they're the Proles of George Orwell's 1984. They'll swallow any amoount of crap. The are now scratching their heads and really believing this is a new stand shrub is taking when it's just more Stay The Course with a new twist---our military has been stretched and decimated by this nonsense war, so Bush HAS to pull some back for rotation. But the average prole doesn't see that---they see this as a new policy Bush is trying, and they're thinking, "duh...hmmm...maybe we better give this new thing a little more time..." The old saying is true; no one EVER went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people. It's even truer in politics than in business.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

MSB — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:36:09 GMT

Mark Thieme, Here's one for you,

What is the sound of sweat?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

juan,ft lauderdale,fl — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:38:35 GMT

Class Warrior-BINGO!!!! You pretty much said it all in a nutshell. The founding fathers created the electorial college just for that reason....they were terrified of the ignorant masses.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Rufus Gibbons, DC — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:09:47 GMT

VRWC, jerry an others of that ilk, During WWII we had a name for people who were physically fit and didn't enlist it was slackers.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Gary, Franklin, WI — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:17:38 GMT

I'm surprized the GOP has not claimed the planned troop reduction of 30,000 from 160,000 to 130,000 is some form of tax cut. They're slipping! I'll take my share in cash please!!

I'm waiting for the GOP's "secret plan to win the war on terror." Fool me once . . .

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Amy H — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:18:59 GMT

I think it's so funny that Rudy (and the rest of the republicans) are complaining about Moveon.org's tactics when they are the same tactics the republicans have used for decades. It's no different than what they did to John Kerry during the last presidental election or even to McCain during the republican nominations 2 elections ago. They say it's not right to "personally attack" but I think they just have sour grapes because a page got taken from their playbook and now are getting a taste of their own medicine

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Amy H — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:28:15 GMT

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Scott in South Texas — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:28:37 GMT

Actually, Lee, back in 2002 the NY Times printed an extensive ad campaign pushing fraudulent justification for bush and them's invasion of Iraq. These ads were written by Judith Miller, among others, only it was called "journalism. Also, being a stickler for detail, you should acknowledge that the conquest and colonization of Iraq is a neo-conservative venture, not a conservative one.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Amy — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:43:03 GMT

One slight bump in the ratings (from one group of 1000............probably all republicans) and you're pointing to the polls to make your argument. That is laughable!!! I didn't think republicans cared about polls (unless they favor your argument, I guess)? What hypocrits!! Let's look at the polls which have show AMERICA (the majority not the blinded) want us out of IRAQ. There is not ONE THING in Iraq worth my husband (a captain in the military) losing his life over and I would have a hard time justifiying to my two small children why they would never get to know there dad. Middle eastern discourse has been around since time was recorded and one stubborn president and thousands of brave troops killed is NOT goign to change an ideology!!! If you want to change the world to your way of thinking JOIN a mission. Don't support a suicide mission!!!

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

VRWC, WA — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:45:47 GMT

Rufus, I don't think you need to lecture me on service. Currently I have my son, my brother in-law, 4 cousins, and an uncle serving, three of which are in the Iraq theater as Marines. For you ungrateful, seditious, unpatriotic liberals who loathe the military, stop right now and go to your nearest recruiter and sign up. That's what I thought, no takers. You people fool no one. To KENN my point is that the NIE was wrong about WMD but the Left is sooo disengenuous that they like to say Bush lied. Flat factually wrong. AP do you remember when we pulled the support from the SHIAs to overthrow Sadaam? They got the crap kicked out of them. Alot of dead SHIAs. Do you really think in todays jihadist movement calling for a caliphate prior to us invading Iraq that we could afford NOT to see the possible nexus. For those of you lunatic Left who says the President keeps changing what the Iraq battlefield is about WMD, Sadaam, democracy maybe you ought to go to the Whitehouse web page and go back to March '03 until now and see his statements in black in white.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Dorcas Sugranes — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:47:29 GMT

Why dont we just buy DUCK TAPE and tie Bush up with it? How many lies is it going to take for the Republicans to stand up and shout ENOUGH ALREADY! and defend our troops?! Betrayus was forthcoming in stating that HE DOESN'T KNOW if our troops being there will make AMERICA SAFER!!! GET A CLUE!!!!!Thank you MOVEON.ORG

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

RJH Rosemont, Henderson, NV — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:54:19 GMT

Amy H - It's no different than what they did to John Kerry during the last presidental election or even to McCain during the republican nominations 2 elections ago.

So you won't complain when the Swift Boaters, or a reasonable facsimile, launch their attack on Hillary next June or so. I mean, that is just the way it is, right?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Carleton, your door man — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:06:22 GMT

What is the sound of "painful rectal itch"?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Amy — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:07:19 GMT

RJH Rosemont:

All is fair in love and war, right!! I didn't make the rules but I am glad that someone AGAINST the war is finally realizing that the person who makes the most noise gets heard. Democrats have been playing nice and politely "taking it" for years and I think because the American people are fed up with Republicans lying or supporting the lies and sick of Democrats playing nice that Moveon.org was created to get a job done. You do make me laugh though........Republicans have hardly waited until next June to rip Hillary............they do it EVERY DAY and in every way possible!!!! Any distraction they can create from their flaws.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

d, Bronx, NY — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:09:11 GMT

Bush is MILKING America with this war and the MaddMan is not going to stop! We have to stop him before we run dry!...Where is all this money going? Sure, better humvees,(About time!) but a lot is not accounted for. Someone is getting rich off of this war and messing up our economy. America is at risk, and WE THE PEOPLE need to stand up and take back AMERICA! And by the way, UNITED!!!!

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Lee Holmes — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:09:44 GMT

PJ:Strange. The only ones who made ''Nazi Germany''comparisons was MOVEON. Not the administration. If this WAS A ''Nazi fascist state'',you would not live to see the sun go down.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

John B, Des Moines, IA — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:11:16 GMT

Freedom's Watch, a well-organized GOP PR operation with Ari Fleischer at the helm describing itself as a grass-roots movement just finished a $25M national ad campaign in support of the surge. MoveOn's paltry $125,000 is chicken feed compared to that. Neocon's need to quit whining, the truth always comes out eventually.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Greg R., Spokane, WA — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:19:54 GMT

Lee, Get out your checkbook. May be your team is outta money. Maybe their "conserving" it.

Either way, why do repulsivcans hate the free market system? NYT runs ads for income. Like I said get out your check book or find someone who still supports the plain & simple FU

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Lee Holmes — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:22:01 GMT

Scott: Yet it was backed by several Democrats now running for office who maintained the causus belli for an Iraq incursion long before Bush ever took office.[and maintained this reasoning right up to the moment we crossed the Iraqi frontier]. Again,those in thrall to MOVEON or any such organization[you will be reminded that the 2004 Bush publically condemned all such attack ads,as for the swiftboaters,there was also the phony Guard documents jerryrigged by Democrats coming at exactly the same time and this passed for ''journalism-as-ad''as well,pushed by no less than the nations premier news anchor],are simply unfit to lead this nation as they do not represent ''The People''but ''THEIR people''.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

DGordon, Pensacola, FL — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:27:13 GMT

Wow, I didn't know there were that many lemmings. Oh, wait I forgot this is MSNBC (Sponsored by MoveOn.org).

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Mark Thieme — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:28:25 GMT

From Weston Kosova, Newsweek:

"If C-Span had sponsored a “Blood and Treasure” drinking game, everyone in the hearing room would have been drunk before noon.

It wasn’t just the senators who couldn’t get enough B&T. The star of the hearing, Gen. David Petraeus, solemnly testified that even though he believes we can still win in Iraq, “there clearly are limits to the blood and treasure that we can expend.” Not to be outdone, his sidekick, Ambassador Ryan Crocker, lamented, “Our country has given a great deal in blood and treasure to stabilize the situation in Iraq.…” (Crocker’s performance was memorable for another show-stopping war euphemism, when he referred to bombed-out Iraqi towns as “post-kinetic environments.”)

As a rhetorical tool, B&T is admirably versatile. Either side can use it with equal effectiveness. The trick is to wait for just the right moment to unleash the phrase, usually when you and your sparring partner are good and angry and you’ve already run through the familiar arsenal of Iraq clichés that must be hauled out in any conversation about the war. (On the one side: “We’ve got to fight them over there …” On the other: “The whole war is based on lies …”) That’s when you—and you’ve got to act quick, because you know the other guy is reaching for the same holster—affect a slightly condescending tone of sad, world-weary resignation, and fire: "No one among us can deny that this noble/futile conflict has cost us much in blood and treasure." So true. So smart. Duel over.

Even the White House is getting in on a little B&T. Briefing reporters, press secretary Tony Snow lectured that in the long run, failure in Iraq would “require a much greater expenditure of U.S. blood and treasure.”

Expenditure? There’s an interesting word choice (we’re sorry, but we had to expend your son’s life in Iraq), and it says a lot about why B&T has become so popular. Like all euphemisms it puts comforting distance between ourselves and the violence in Iraq by making something brutal and ugly sound lofty and poetic. Death and destruction is depressing. But expenditures, that’s just spreadsheets. B&T is all about making the war easier for us here at home.

Try this: Next time you hear someone use “blood and treasure” to make a point for or against the war, substitute the words “dead Americans and money.” It has a whole different ring to it."

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

PJ — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:34:34 GMT

DGordon: You're confused, the lemmings are the ones following GW. MoveOn are the ones pointing out how foolish they are.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:38:44 GMT

If you don't like what you read..........Move ON........preferably to a different country where freedom of speach and opinion is not allowed. I'm sure Bush wishes he inherited a dictatorship but if you don't like democracy (where citizens CAN disagree with your leaders and CAN remove them through a political process in case you forgot) then don't apply for citizenship. By the way (lemmings) nice use of name-calling. A very mature argument!!!

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

PJ — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:40:52 GMT

Class Warrior, I guess you're right, we ARE talking about a population that elected George W Bush twice. (Or did they?)Where's our hope then?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Chuck — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:41:33 GMT

What does conservative mean anyway? You seem pretty liberal with my tax dollars!!!

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

pfft! — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:44:36 GMT

"If this WAS A ''Nazi fascist state'',you would not live to see the sun go down. " Or maybe, you.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Houston — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:44:59 GMT

Amy [[It's no different than what they did to John Kerry during the last presidental election or even to McCain during the republican nominations 2 elections ago.]]

Actually it's WAY different. What Bush's hitmen said about Kerry and McCain was proven to be a pack of outright lies in both cases (they accused Kerry of faking his war record to get medals and McCain of having an illegitimate black baby). There's nothing in the MoveOn ad that was false.

Since America is not yet a military dictatorship, it's still OK for people to criticize generals. If Petraeus' boss, Admiral Fallon, can call Petraeus an a**-kissing sycophant, it certainly should be OK for MoveOn and anyone else to share similar opinions.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Jan, Nashua, NH — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:02:18 GMT

Wow, I didn't know there were enough lemmings gullible enough to still support The Worst President Ever.

The most despicable ad against a soldier was the Republican Party's against Max Cleland in 2002. Sen. Cleland's sin? He didn't think we should invade Iraq.

I think this ad campaign is brilliant. The first ad got a rise out of the rightwing "nutroots."
It got a big buzz (and I understand that Rush "Pimple on my Ass" Limbaugh called Chuck Hagel "Senator Betray Us?).
It got Rudy to spend some campaign cash to put his money where his big mouth is.
And then MoveOn follows up with an ad that says it as simple as it gets:
Whiteboard in a classrrom
*2006 - 130,000 troops*
Simple addition and subtraction
The usual Bu**sh** from Bush
*2008 - 130,000 troops*

AND JEANNE SHAHEEN IS RUNNING AGAINST JOHN SUNUNU!

I count nine GOP Senate seats in serious play according to poll numbers (Sununu is already about 20% behind Shaheen) and no Dem seats in play yet.

I wonder if MoveOn will be running any ads against Sununu?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Albert Day, Arlington, VA — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:28:26 GMT

Here we go again. How many troops did we lose in WWI? in WWII? in Korea? in Vietnam? oh wait, Democtrats sent us there. How many troops have we lost in Iraq? this is a no brainer people. There could be 130K, 160K, or 10K troops in Iraq, it doesn't matter. What matters is that many of us WILL NEVER FORGET!!

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Bob. Lipsett Sr., North Attleboro, MA. 02760-4388 — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:42:43 GMT

VRWC,WA. I know of not one single person that doesn't back our troops. Isn't $587 Billion dollars enough for the protection they haven't gotten. It is you that tries to make the UN-AMERICAN and UNPATRIOTIC label and it we the Liberals that is trying to stop the needless blood shed.

Further more get your head out of your ..., pardon me your sand pile and read into just what Bush said last night and then tell me he hadn't planned for a long invasion lasting through many presidents unless he plans to say in the oval office by default (MARTIAL LAW). Want J. McCain? he will stay their. That is what really freighten this 72 year old man. What faces my children, 17 grand children and 4 great grandchildren, what is in their future?

Stop with this rag of BS that all liberals hate the military, it is only good for TP. I served in '54 to '62 in the USAF, my daughter served in "Desert Storm". My son retired from the USAF as a Major. We Supported them in that 100 hour war more than anyone of you have aided our "All Volunteer Military with our Citizen Soldiers" that has not contributed anything for a sacrific for the troops. Except on Sept. 25, 2005 when for the first time this lunkhead ask the nation to conserve as the twin hurricanes disrupted the crude supply from the Gulf of Mexico. Some sacrific you people have made for our troops other than those metalic stickers on your BMW going at 85 to 95/mph with wreckless driving and partying while they shed their blood for your comfort.

We don't hate the troops, it is what was told to me on a vacation in Aruba by a English couple, "we don't hate, YANKS, Americans just your lamebrained leader.

SO VRWC, WA. quit the crap, it is people like you who can't see that this country invaded just to permanently occupy space in Iraq for "OIL and the defense of Israel. What a legacy this nitwick has left us with. Bitter, you bet your sweet bibby I am.

Why are we using Citizen Soldiers fighting this war, is it so the scrub can fill their jobs with the law breakers, illegal wet backs, that cross our borders.

Byron Dorgan stopped the Mexican Truxks from taking the last real American jobs and at least preserved one industry that Ted Kennedy and Carter and Reagan tried to sabatage through deregulation.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

kevin l. abilene, tx. — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:48:46 GMT

Mr. Bush we the people of America have stood behind you in your time of need!
Now all we ask is that you stand behind us in our time of need!
So Mr. Bush are you with US or against US???
End the War!!! Peace!

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Al Diaz, Ashburn, VA — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:56:58 GMT

Let's see. MoveOn.com and liberals don't like the military in the first place. In fact they have proved to dislike them over and over again, so why all the hurry to get them out of "harm's way". Because the have an agenda, that's why. Otherwise, they would call for all the troops in Germany, Italy, S. Korea, Japan, and a 100 other countries to come home. They speak from boths sides of their mouth only because they enjoy their freedom. Well, let's give others their freedom too.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Kaneiha — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:59:41 GMT

The axiom "follow the money" is always true. War is about profit. Therefore, those who will profit hire the best spin doctors, elect a failed human being who could be sold on the "righteousness" of a cause that has no basis in fact, and it's been said before but holds true: beware the military industrial complex. This war is supported by everyone who makes money from it - their machines, their weapons, their food and shelter. It's not just the big scary Halliburton-type corporations, either, although they're certainly at the top of the lsit, it's also every soldier who wants to be a general and families on base wanting to fit in. It's also those who prefer not to do their own thinking and to be spoon-fed positions.
You would think that once it was learned that Bush lied about, well, everything that people would turn on him. Turns out, with enough spin, you can make a liar seem righteous, especially if it's in your own supposed self interest.
There is just too much money being thrown around to too many people to just say no to this war.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:01:55 GMT

VRWC- Party of Treason? Drop the T and your spot on.
You must have fat fingered that one.
Apology accepted.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

I. N. Doubt — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:05:10 GMT

My question is this:
If we don't trust Bush, Petraeus, Cheyney and the rest of our leadership on matters pertaining to something like Iraq, then why do we trust in the official story we are being fed about 9/11, the pretext for the war?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Peet Caloger Bushkill, PA 18324 — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:12:22 GMT

VRWC, I question the intelligence and gullibility of anyone who volunteers to serve in Iraq. Every time a politician, for or against the war, falls back on the tired lines about "our brave heroes" and their "sacrifices", I can't help but think that the world would be a better place if the American military returned to its traditional role, the defense of this nation when attacked. And that hasn't happened for over 60 years. All that the military has accomplished since then is the preservation of American economic interests (not sufficient cause to take human life) or to push some political agenda. Our troops in Iraq are not heroes, they are murderers and occupiers. The glorification of the military as currently configured and deployed is dishonest and mindless and is responsible for the deaths of thousands of American soldiers, many of whom have been led to believe that they are in fact engaged in some noble cause. If you and your family wish to enlist and "serve", then go ahead - but do not declare the rest of us traitors for not wishing to join in on all the gun-toting, civilian-killing fun.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Al Diaz — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:12:59 GMT

Bob Lipsett, I will give you a few names of individuals and orgainzations who at one point or another have said ugly things against our troops. Unfortunately, they have an open forum and people listen. By the way, I will call you, your daughter, and son "HEROES", have they?

Stephanie Millier, Radio
Bill Press, Radio
Alex Bennett, Radio
Ed Schultz, Radio
Dennis Kusinish, Politics
John Kery, Politics
MoveOn.com, web
DalyKos, web

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

David Powell, Ocean City, NJ 08226 — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:27:42 GMT

What a surprise. Liberals in Washington don't want the Government to let America win a war. Never seen that before, well except, always.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Al Diaz — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:28:09 GMT

Bob Lipsett, I can give you one more name. PEET CALOGER (see above). Just read the second part of his comment to see how liberals "glorify" our troops. I have several friend in Iraq and not a single one deserves to be called those words.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Ellis Volt, Atlantic City NJ — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:41:04 GMT

<Moveon.org was created to get a job done.>

But now, it's gotten a little out of control. No one could ever say the Swift Boaters controlled the Republican party. Moveon and DailyKos though are in full control, bought and paid for no less, of the Democratic party.

Extremists like Amy seem to think this is a good thing. But there is no running back to the middle when the Democrats as so under the control of these extremist groups.

It is going to be so easy next fall.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Patrick, PHX AZ — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:58:56 GMT

OMG: Yo Pete!!! We did get attacked! Where were you???? If you hate this country so much which it sounds like you do... GET OUT!!!!

I have been patiently reading all of the entries regarding this article and, though i don't agree with most of the demobrat Jargon, yours actually got my blood boiling. I wouldn't associate you with either side nor the middle.

But i'll give it to ya, you have the ability and the right to say what you want just as the rest of us do BECAUSE OF THE MILITARY!

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Bob. Lipsett Sr., North Attleboro, MA. 02760-4388 — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:02:39 GMT

Al Diaz, touched a nerve didn't I.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Sage Brush — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:13:00 GMT

Patrick

If you love this country as much as you pretend to...

JOIN UP!

SEND A DAUGHTER OR SON!

BETTER YET, SEND YOUR WHOLE FAMILY!

YOU AND THE WIFE AND KIDS COULD HAVE PICNICS IN ANBAR.

You'll be missed.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

NoPolitics, Please — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:26:37 GMT

I am neither a Republican nor Democrat. I used to ignore politics until recent years, more precisely, until 9/11 and Bush draws the country to the war of Iraq. To me, making a war on Afghanistan after 9/11 makes sense, but making a war on Iraq does not quite make sense. Then Colin Powell made the famous presentation in UN suggested that there might be WMD in Iraq. Now that we’ve found there is no WMD in Iraq, should we admit the mistake and hand over the power to Iraqis and say bye? Here are my questions to three groups of people.

To Bush and Iraq war Supporters:
1. Why does Bush just tell people how he changes his purpose of the Iraq War?
2. Can Bush just tell people what is the end goal of the Iraq war and what is the plan and how long it will last roughly and how much he will spend from now? Just roughly.
3. Why does Bush always make a link between 9/11 and Iraq war?
4. Why supporting our troop has anything to do with supporting the war in Iraq?

To Democrat:
1. How can you be sure that we fail in Iraq War?
2. If one of your candidates becomes our next president, what is his/her plan to pull out of Iraq and what is the political implications for American and the people in Iraq after U.S troop made such a mess there.

To Republican:
1. Why do you have to support the war in Iraq or Bush to be a Republican?
2. Why are you afraid of a Democrat becoming a president more than the head of terrorism at large?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Rufus Gibbons, DC — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:30:10 GMT

VRWC people like me who served 20 years in the Navy know enough not to follow blindly a president who cannot give us a reason for going to war instead he has named half a dozen reasons including at one time to save those poor Iraqi children. The truth be known he was led like a lamb to slaughter by the neocons who convinced him he would be the George Washington of the middle east. I hope your relatives make it back ok.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

VRWC, WA — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:45:33 GMT

Bob Lipsett, you name me ONE Republican, who has shown the disdain, clear disrespect, and ungratefulness for our military, especially those in harms way. Face it, when 90% of Americans trust the military, you have to admit MOVEON made a HUGE gaff and now they're trying to save face by their Bush betrayal ads. Was their agenda to unite the Republicans, because it seems to be working.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

NoPolitics, Please — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:10:21 GMT

I don't really care MoveOn.Org until now. I have just visited their page. The title of the article "General Petraeus or General Betray Us" is too strong. But the contents of the article are interesting if they are all facts.

One of the highlights is like,

--Start of the quote--
General Petraeus is a military man constantly at war with the facts. In 2004, just before the election, he said there was “tangible progress“ in Iraq and that “Iraqi leaders are stepping forward.”
Washington Post, “Battling for Iraq,” by David H. Petraeus. 9/26/04
--End of the quote--

So he did think our military making progress three years ago!

Here is the link,

https://pol.moveon.org/petraeus.html

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Lee Holmes — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:13:33 GMT

pffft:This is quite possible. Yet in this,we are dealing in speculation. Not reality. Thus,no ''Nazis'',no ''fascism'',no nothing except dealing with the effects of a war that was approved by Congress including nearly all of its Dem candidates for president including Edwards and Hillary,dealing with ''the most ethical Congress in history'',and inventing new names for Hsu. Heh. Some ''fascists''we turned out to be,eh?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Lee Holmes — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:18:25 GMT

Kaneiha: Follow The Money indeed:

George Soros- HALLIBURTON-MOVEON.

Who is really lying here? And who is blighted enough to believe that Democrats are not themselves in thrall to the corporate,profiteering,''Man''?

www.opensecrets.org

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Al Diaz, Reston VA — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 01:34:41 GMT

No Sr. You didn't touch a nerve, but you said you didn't know of anyone who didn't back the troops. I gave you a long list and they are all liberal democrats. That says a lot about them, doesn't it. And I could give you another long list from the Hollywood crowd too! As a former member of the military, you should know better who to associate with, Sr.

There is people in this country who trully believe our troops are good and honest people. I, a former illegal wet back as you put it, am one of them and as such I respect and thank you, your family and every member of today's military for your service. You are the reason for my freedoms, Sr. Republicans understand this! I do hope that people like you, Mr. Caloger, and your liberal friends gave others (Iraqis) the same rights we enjoy. Remember, WE WILL NEVER FORGET that we were attached.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

grace whitnah — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 01:37:42 GMT

Move On has shown their true colors...they HATE the USA and they despise our military! I think Rudy hit the nail on the head with his column in the times today. Who does Hillary support? Our troops or Moveon? It's the latter of the two.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

chuck jacksonville fla — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 02:04:02 GMT

Bush has become delusional. he has no perspective. the man is obseesed , hass no understanding of what middle east is about. he looks only at oil and the economy. the worst possible president at the wrong time has got to go. any questions.? it will son be time to hit the streets

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Al Diaz — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 02:10:40 GMT

After reading this blog you can easily find the differences between Democrats and Republicans:

DEMOCRATS attack the military, call names, smear good patriots, and insult anyone who disagree with their beliefs under the name of freedom of speach.

REPUBLICANS respect Dems' freedom of speach, respect the hard work of the military, and believe this country is a good country and it's doing a good deed in Iraq.

What side are you on??? Thank you MoveOn.com for showing your true colors to the nation. YOU'RE THE WEAKEST LINK, YOU LOST!!!

Sincerely, a former illegal wet back who now has the right to vote.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Nick Dorsey — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 06:38:33 GMT

Lee,

I have to grudgingly compliment the Repugs on their masterful job of disinformation on the Bush service dodging letters. Im sure that they were in fact generated by Repubs who knew the truth of their content.

It was only the authenticity of the origin of the letters that was discredited, because ABC foolishly did not wait to get the requisite confirmation. The actual factual content of the letters was never successfully factually disputed and in fact was later corroborated by other sources. However the issue was so contaminated that this was pretty much ignored and pushed aside.

That's the real story.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

DRS. Valrico, FL — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:55:53 GMT

Everyone would like the troops to come home.

However, you can't just pack up and leave tomorrow. MoveOn.org and the Democrats still don't understand that. They also have failed to provide any viable plan at all. Until they can provide a plan, many people won't take them seriously and won't even listen.

Whether you agree or not with the Iraq War, the US can't just pick up and leave. That plays right in to the hands of Al Qaeda showing us as "quitters". Also, how does that look to our allies. When the going gets tough, we quit?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Mike Williams — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:16:27 GMT

The comments from moveon are treasonous and they should be charged as traitors in aiding the enemy. They are NOT the liberal left but are in fact radical SOCIALISTS. It sounds like the Gestapo is back with PC and spying on what your neighbor says and does. BEWARE AMERICA OF THE CLINTON/SOCIALIST AGENDA.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Perry Jordan — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 14:57:38 GMT

Could someone at the Times or MSNBC please write a similar story on the NEOCON group paying for the ads portraying a wounded vet pumping up support for the war? Why is it news that MoveOn could do such a "propaganda" move, yet the $15 million dollars from "unknown" providers is ok? Why is the media constantly questioning progressives and not neo-cons? Con is part of the name for a reason!

Peace, please?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Cynthia Timko Boulder, Colorado — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 16:09:58 GMT

I "belong" to MoveOn, I guess, since I get theur E-mail, though I've never given them any money-there are too many causes that need money and I tend to wait for the ones that I think will have the most impact, plus I'm on disability, so I can't go flingng money at everyone and everything that represents my views,much as I would like. I have taken the opportunity to write MoveOn, since they encourage it, and participated in their poll re: going after vulnerable Congresspeople who don't strongly oppose the Preident's policies. If you are a member, write to them. I don't like every single thing they do but agree with them overall. That has been the case with every organization, job-place, etc. that I have ever associated with, including being an American Citizen. The President and his cronies are using the Petraeus ad as a diversion,whether you approve of the ad or not, and I think MoveOn was very short sighted in not seeing that that is just what would happen. But pay attention to the troop "drawdown" ad. It is simple truth. the Prez is the Decider as far as policy is concerned, and people should be paying attention to policy. Iraq is now going to be our good and faithful ally like South Korea? I don't think so.we're still refereeing a civil war for a government that barely exists and can't qualify as an ally for anyone(except each other's widely divergent groups that claim space in the government. And the Prez's whopper about the number of countries with us on the ground in Iraq should be MoveOn's next expose and a featured item for dicussion relating to the kind of adminstration we have allowed to develop. (I guess the number of countries will drop by one in a month or so when Iceland brings home its single representative in Iraq-I think he's a reporter or observer of some sort).

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Gary S — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 17:08:15 GMT

Sometimes I think tha moveon.org is a little eccentric, but most all they say is factual, and I give them a lot of credit for simply having "balls" to speak up. I am sure all their telephone lines are tapped, e-mails scrutinized, and taxes audited, they have my support.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Gnaught A Yankee Bella Vista, Arkansas — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 17:13:36 GMT

The Republican's have become pedophiles and panderers to the Corporate snuff for so long that it is irretreivable. The entire philosophy set is self-interest. Nothing great was accomplished without greater collaboration and interreliance. They fail the future test. It is like an empty old dark shop, devoid of any product for sale. Kept open simply because the proprietors hadn't died off yet. GOP

The party of Jefferson and Jackson will reclaim our rights for us when they hold the magical numbers of 60-67 in the Senate and 300 or so House seats. That's going to call for electoral pragmatism. Win the district you are in. Move On doesn't always play well here in the Deep South. Most Yankee craziness doesn't. We still elect Democrats here though. You can screw that up by flinging too much diatribe. Chill, my leftist brothers. As a right wing D, let me tell you lock step majority is a lot better than locked out. We are ahead by a damn nose in a tenuous business, this national politics. Now a lot of us have wanted the War part over since the inspectors found no WMD. The rest of this has been camping Middle Eastern Energy with War since 1991. As a retired NCO, and having had my shot in the sandbox and Somalia too, My say is this: "The existence of suffering and depravation on this Earth is an affront to God, with such wealth as there is to share, to such a great need." Run that and Win. Handouts to the worst off, Hand-ups to the next along. Fresh drinking water, Simple medical care, a return to clean hands foreign policy. Run with that and Win. Don't take every cheap shot you can or after a while it's what you are known for. (Don't go Rove because they had one, sheesh.)

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

anyone ,care,tx, — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:39:24 GMT

The simple truth is that the cost of this war is hurting America as a whole!!! Keep pushing to spend more in Iraq it's all good right?
We have issues here in America that could, if have not
caused us to slip even closer too a second class country and how does this happen when we have so much to offer the world as a whole???
Were is the true compromise in this situation???
I tell you this Bush, if you truely want the American people to love and indorse you as the great President you could have been then bring the troops home!!
On that day there will be celibration not only for the troops but for you as well. We the people can finaly say our President did the right thing and hold you once again close to our heart's as we once did.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Maxine Walker, Carnation, WA — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 23:49:05 GMT

MoveOn - let's call for a "regime change" with all it's implications that we have a would-be dictator who has violated the constitution, the will and rights of the American people and has become a threat to the peace process world-wide.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Tom Gunn, Plano, Texas — Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:15:16 GMT

I used to guess by their spoken ideas and expressed written rhetoric we were able to single out the so-called "unwashed" public. I'm not so sure anymore. Unwilling to accept the words of a genuine military hero proves how this public should not be trusted with an attempt to evaluate the truth when its fairly presented to them. TomG, Plano Texas

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

HOT DAM — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:19:23 GMT

Carlton the door man re: Koan
What is the difference?
Painful rectal itch AND Bushes lips moving?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Steve — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:24:37 GMT

I support moveon.org and will for the rest of my life.

I will never trust George W. Bush or any of his weasels and shills, and that now includes Genital BetrayUS.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Wayne, TN — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:49:58 GMT

Any Democrat serving in Iraq should get special credit for bucking the enormous peer pressure, afterall Democrats are the least likely of any political affiliation to willingly serve in harms way.

The main reason Nixon got elected was because so many Democrats of draft age decided to vacation in Canada for a few years.

For all you videogame commandos out there remember that the Democrat mantra is that Afghanistan is the good war, so hi your fanny down to the recruiting station and enlist for the big push into Waziristan the Dems have been saber rattling about.
Field Marshall Obama would love to destabilize Pakistan and he'll need your help. Most especially since the Democrat tactic of abandoning Iraq will free up thousands of Al-Queda recruits for battle in those mountains.

PS
Notice the recent flurry of , "Un-Named source close to" and "speaking anonymously because they are not authorized to". Which means "Won't stand behind their claims and didn't hear it themselves anyway" and "Not qualified to speak on the subject".

How about a few actual quotes by real people, and in context for once?

Journalism my Aunt Fanny, gossip, propaganda, and character assassination have become the rule rather than the exception. We might as well be reading the National Enquirer or the Weekly World News.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

David, Houston — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:26:57 GMT

For those who are going to attack MoveOn.org, could you please spend some more time to visit MoveOn.org before you do that! Do you think the true-speaking MoveOn.Org is scarier than a liar president? Bush is the president from 2000 to now. He has power to put surveillance on your private phone and email or maybe this brog as well. He has the power to make false alarm on Iraq war. He has the power to help big corporations to suppress the science theory of global warming. You don’t agree with the theory of global warming? Fine, but do you at least allow them to make their voice heard?

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Kirt Silvers — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:11:41 GMT

Most of us are tired of the lies, When I was in uniform I did not speak out about Vietnam. There no freedom of speach in the service not when it comes to the politics. The truth is it will take more than a generation to turn Iraq around. Humpty Dumpty is what we got, that and tax and spend Repub. 51 Billion for Iraq but let a US city need help and we are broke. Something just not right about that.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Kirt Silvers — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:44:43 GMT

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Lee Holmes — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:58:31 GMT

Nick: Great. You trot out the ''real story''by using the wrong news company.[CBS. Not ABC. Furthermore the Kinkos forgeries were in fact traced back to a Texas Democrat,who passed these files onto CBS'Marla Mapes]. Not once was the GOP even remotely associated with the forgeries/CBS scandal that destroyed the career of anchor Dan Rathers. Further,you will find that the officers named in these documents not only did not ''cooberate''the authenticity,but found that their own signatures were forged.

Also see;WIKIPEDIA ''The Bush Guard Documents Controversy''[forged documents].

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Mark Stewart — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 22:23:27 GMT

The Democrats around here talk about all the "lies" of the Bush administration. Then when you point out to them that so called unbiased news organziations attempted fraud on the American public by trying to throw an election, then it's a Republican conspiracy. Dan Rather and CBS went out there with a story with evidence so flimsy, that DA Mike Nifong of Duke LaCrosse fame would have run away from it.

Until Fox News tries to throw an election with a fabricated story, we shouldn't have to listen to how biased any slight amount of rightward leaning news is.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

Wayne, TN — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 03:53:25 GMT

Remember how the Democrats went ape over the "Downing Street memo"?
The supposed source supposedly delivered real documents , the News source supposedly photocopied these then had the content typed out from the photocopies which were then conveniently destroyed.
What a load.

They then even tried to change the meaning out the words "Fixed about" , which only served to obscure the fact that there was no way to confirm that an original ever existed much less whether it was authetic.

Then we were expected to accept as "Fake but Accurate" a proven forgery of an official TANG documents, while dismissing actual provably real documentation as bogus.
Not only that, we have a Bush hater on this very thread attempting to snow the people here years after the forgeries were uncovered.

The stark terror of a possible victory in Iraq has the Democrats self destructing in an historic manner, not even the media will be able to save the DNC this time around.

PS
Last time I checked Democrats are vastly under represented in uniform, less than one third proportional to their representation in the general population. Republicans have been historically over represented in uniform, especially in active duty.
While the percentage of Independents has risen greatly the Democrats remain a minority, and Liberals of any persuasion account for only about two percent of active duty military.

Many young Democrats pretend to be anti-war in order to justify their reluctance to serve.
People like Kerry denigrate our military in order to make those young voters feel superior to those they should be grateful to.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

"Bud", outside of Portland, Oregon — Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:40:55 GMT

I stand by the MoveOn ad: the General betrayed our trust. Desperate for some criteria to reflect progress after the "surge"(ESCALATION) in Iraq, the General (and his Commander-In-Chief) changed the criteria: car bombs don't count; neither does an assassination unless it's a shot in the back of the head. "Fuzzy math"? Sorry, but it sounds DISHONEST to me.And that is a BETRAYAL of trust.

MoveOn hits Bush in TV campaign

chick rappa — Sun, 11 Nov 2007 15:11:39 GMT

send joe blow off the street's to washington, he has street smart,and would tell the truth.. it seems like all these profesional people are two educated to fix any of the problems that a blind man can see.. he would talk straight,not in circle's..action speaks louder than words.