Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Roy, Charlotte, NC — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:59:43 GMT

Sen. Warner is all cheap critism and no action. Here he had a clear chance to really and truly support the troops by actually casting a vote in favor of the Webb amendment...and he did not. I was starting to think that some repubs might actually be finding some small amount of politial courage but I was wrong.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

ken minneapolis — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:00:41 GMT

the whole point: both parties will cave in to the funding demands. they will do it this fall, next spring, and way into the next administration, which- no matter who is elected or from what party- will continue and expand armed conflict for control of the middle east.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Rember I told you so...Z — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:06:19 GMT

Just another thing that will bring down the "biggest" Republican defeat in history come November '08.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

WDRussell, East Liverpool, Ohio — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:09:26 GMT

Just when you think republicans couldn't get any lower, you find that there is no bottom to their barrel.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Pat, Boston, MA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:14:16 GMT

Willie Geist this morning, something along the lines of: "The Democrats once again were unable to stop the war, the reason they were voted in last year."

Um, the Democrats can end this war when they get more Democrats voted into Congress. Or, when the Republicans stop carrying President Bush's water for him and instead WORK with the Democrats to end this war.

The GOP has no intention of changing course until next summer when the campaigns heat up. Nice huh? In the meantime, more die. Politics as usual in the GOP.

Talk about that Willie.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Amy B Portland, ME — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:17:41 GMT

‘The fact that it didn’t get enough votes says that Congress doesn’t have the votes to stop this strategy of success from going forward.’”

Nice of Lieberman to set up the Democrats' platform for the '08 Presidential race and every senate race for the next decade. Republicans and Republicans alone kept Americans in Iraq. Maybe Lieberman is a Democrat after all?

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

PJ — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:21:46 GMT

I'd like to see a comprehensive expose' on the conditions under which Blackhawk "employees" work as compared to a typical enlisted man. I see so many staements on these boards to the effect "libs don't support the troops; are invested in failure in Iraq..." and so on, nothing coud be further from the truth. This "war" based on lies and now carried out without compassion for the kids being asked to fight it is doomed to failure for these very reasons. The neo-cons claim Christianity? Read your Bibles again. Jesus laid out the laws of Karma. Plant bad seeds in rocky soil & you'll get what you deserve.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

lets think — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:26:14 GMT

in case you dont know the Dems have the majority in the house and Sen. Not all Dems are giving comfort and talking points to the enemy.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Treena — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:28:22 GMT

Joe Lieberman is by no means a democrat, nor is he an independent. He is a republican. Why doesn't he just switch and become a republican anyway. The republicans will need him come 2008 when the democratic majority in congress will become bigger. Shame on you Joe- being a democrat means caring about all US citizens, not just agreeing with the Republican administration when it defies common sense.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Frank Sumter, Omaha Nebraska — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:28:23 GMT

Republicans are interested in winning the war in Iraq, not legislating what time our soldiers should be tucked in at night. It's not clear what the Democrats are trying to do. It appears they are trying to negotiate terms for surrender.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

mikeeg,abdn,wa — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:32:36 GMT

the repubs once again deny American troops the rest and retraing they need, how is that suporting them? More and more military and families speaking out about the unfairness of the repubs.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Diane, Grand Blanc, MI — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:37:06 GMT

How pathetic are we as a nation when approximately 70% of the American public are in favor of ending this quagmire in Irag, and yet, we still can't seem to rein in and stop this imperial administration from wreaking more death and destruction. Do our votes really matter or is it just a means of pacifying the public?

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Joe Einloth — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:37:20 GMT

Lets think and Frank Sumter, nice to see you're behind the troops. About 7,000 miles behind the troops!

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Sunny, Tulsa — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:37:51 GMT

This is the Republican Party supporting the troops. Lets send them back as often as we can, we don't care that they are exhausted and their families are stressed beyond what any family should have to endure. The talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. Those who support the Bush Administration do not send their sons to war, and do not really care what happens to these young men and women. The troops do not come from their neighborhoods and schools, are not the children of their friends and neighbors, but come from a different class of Americans. The only thing they support the troops for is the make sure the oil keeps flowing and their coffers continue to fill up. They are the friends of the oil industry and big business, such as Halliburton. They are making a lot of money from this war, which includes Dick Cheney. Anyone who believes Cheney no longer has a financial relationship with Halliburton is not living in the real world. Cheney has become a very wealthy man while serving as vice president. Didn't know we paid the vice president such a handsome salary.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

mikeeg,abdn,wa — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:39:06 GMT

has anyone considered that blackwater is not only a mercenary force working in the dark(without any laws) but instead of protecting petrause and other high level people that instead they are there to controll and enforce bush/cheney agenda(cheney himself already shot 1 man in the face and nearly killed him and got away with it)? How long before black suv's start pulling up in the dark of night to AMERICANS HOMES and drag them off after illegal wiretapping and finding out that these people are not right wing neo-nuts? blackwater is bush/cheney verson of hitlers ss.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Sunny, Tulsa — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:40:18 GMT

Frank Sumter, how many family members do you have serving in Iraq at this time? Tuck our soldiers in at night? Senator Webb's son just returned from Iraq, and I believe he has serious concern about how our troops are being used in this civil war in Iraq.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Robert Catalano, Salem, OR — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:06:16 GMT

Once again Joe Lieberman shows his true colors. As long as Arabs and US Soldiers are being killed instead of Jews, he'll vote for whatever reckless foreign policy President Numbnuts decides on. He's the ultimate quisling mole: an agent for a foreign government in a position of power in our government.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

HP Boston — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:07:02 GMT

Tell lieberscum that the voters are coming to intervene!

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:11:43 GMT

So the Republican plan to continue running our armed forces into the dirt continues. They wish to continue this military adventure using the same guys over and over again. If this is the case we need to get behind our "President" and reinstate the Draft. No exemptions, No deferments. There should however be an economic qualifier. The children of families making over $200,000.00 a year should be the only ones to draw numbers in the first round. This will be the first step in getting this entire country at war instead of just those who volunteered for service. This would also be the first step for the Senate toward getting 67 votes on ending this disaster.
Willie Geist and Tucker Carlson should be given immediate commissions to allow them to lead their own Platoons. LT. Willie and LT. Tucker..sounds cute. Mika Brzezinski should head for the Hampton's and roll bandages and keep an eye on the OJ situation. Joe Scarborough can ramble on endlessly about his political "career", who he knows, and by god the good ol contract with America days and obsess about the next Reagan. Olberman can continue to watch his show deteriorate into Entertainment Tonight. Oh yeah, Chris Mathews...HA! More French Fries!

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Terry, Disabled Vet, Des Moines, IA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:12:00 GMT

PJ, you hit the nail on the head. A soldier/Marine commits a crime against people in Iraq and then gets courts-martialed for doing so. Then you have Blackwater (probably a company tied to this administration) gets to do anything possible without any possibility of getting tried and convicted unlike the actual soldiers of this country. Sounds to me like this so called war is nothing but a front for companies tied to this administration getting rich off of the backs (lives) of the soldiers of this country. Does that remind you of another conflict? Until the Dems have enough to overcome the spineless wimps of the Repuke party (or shall I say the rich getting richer)this will continue.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:13:25 GMT

The distinguished Senator from the district of Tel Aviv.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

John B, Des Moines, IA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:28:24 GMT

By now it's clear the Republican party doesn't care how much time our troops spend in harm's way, how many deployments they're forced to endure, how little time they get away from the battlefield, or how often they change the rules to squeeze more out of them that they didn't originally sign on for. Mikeeg, you're also right. Once the president has his own private army, how long can it be before that army is used against his political opponents?

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Jamie, Elmwood Park, IL — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:31:19 GMT

I hate to say this, but the quickest way to end this war is to reinstate the draft and raise taxes. Only when the "silent majority" who do not have any family in the armed forces and are not being financially hurt begins to personally feel the pain of this war will enough pressure be brought on this administration. As long as the dems do not have the 60 votes in the senate, nothing will be done.
PAT IN BOSTON: What is happening to your Red Sox? My dream of a Cubs/Red Sox World Series was shattered in 2003 but being a Cubs fan, I'm eternally optimistic; could this be the year???

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Ravine Force, Kissimmee, FL — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:33:18 GMT

Frank Sumpter, your comment is way out of line. No one is asking to have our boys tucked in, they are asking for reasonable time to overcome the stress of being in the front. It is called Rest and Relaxation (R&R). The mental and physical stress of being in a war zone is devastating, guess you've never been there, hu?

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

ken from pa — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:36:54 GMT

"Republicans are interested in winning the war in Iraq, not legislating what time our soldiers should be tucked in at night"

Frank, what is your definition of a win?

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Houston — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:48:12 GMT

The GOP morons in the Senate called Webb's bill to give the troops a decent amount of time off from Bush's useless war a "slow bleed." Apparenlty, Republicans want American troops to keep bleeding fast in Iraq. Oh, well the Repubs do support the troops by putting yellow-ribbon magnets on their SUVs. I'm sure that's a real morale-booster for soldiers whose lives are falling apart thanks to our fearless leader's endless quagmire.

Why DO Republicans hate our troops?

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Pat, Boston, MA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:51:08 GMT

Jamie, good luck with your team, the Cubs. It gives me a reason to watch the playoffs.

I don't know what happened with the Sox. I guess their bullpen is shot and they're not hitting. Deadly combination. All the things that were working in April-June aren't working anymore.

They are not a World Series team afterall. Devastating collapse.

But how can anyone NOT root for the Cubs? We love your team up here.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

jerry/corpus christi texas — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:52:23 GMT

It is also clear that the democratic party is the party of defeat in America.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Jeffersonian Don — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:54:22 GMT

Has anyone stopped to think ,The king also stood on an aircraft carrier and annnounced mission accomplished! Most do not realize the pay grade for the military is different during war. Mission accomplished , pay cut ,and years later more dead and maimed brothers and sisters in Iraq! Oil is at an all time high as a comodity, so its ok with this admin. Another note worthy thought. Did any of you know that KBR and its subsideries (including Haliburton) was bankrupt chapter 11 before this little police action / war. Is it not interesting that while there are a lot business names in Iraq they are all under the umbrella of KBR, and KBR was the only company that got said contracts.The excuse used was they are the only entity that was large enough to handle the job. This of course a lie ,especially concidering the man Cheney said he no longer had ties to KBR ,but in fact IS still the CEO of one of its subcideries.Can anyone guess where its located; anyone, in Afganistan you guesed it. This company is long standing in Afganistan long before the 9/11 date. So go figure why my brothers and sisters are dying in Iraq. I bet no one asked Saddam why he was trying to irradicate the Kurds? Did you know that after Desert Storm we put a no fly over them for protection ,but we didn,t ask the question. So in fact we were harboring Al Quida as the Kurds were allowing them to train in thier back yards and hiding them when the elite guard came through. You See ;Saddam while a saddistic dictator, hated the Al Quida ,and Kurds for protecting them. Now knowing all this do you not think we have a bunch of snakes in the gov. both sides. You all continue to live in your civy lives and root for your parties ;I’ll try to put out the message to rise against the machine and really change our country so they the real Americans can come home!!!

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Houston — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:56:15 GMT

lets (not) think [[in case you dont know the Dems have the majority in the house and Sen. Not all Dems are giving comfort and talking points to the enemy.]]

The American politician who gives the enemy the most aid and comfort is the "useful idiot" in the Oval Office: G.W. Bush.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Honest Abe — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:56:17 GMT

Left = Liberal, fool, blame America, anti-military, socialist, name caller, child-like, I'm OK - Your not, freedom of speech - if you agree with me, pro Palestine, and anti Israel.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:59:54 GMT

Let's not forget the families of these soldiers. Many of them have kids who haven't seen them for months, and in some cases, for over a year. Don't they deserve some time with their parent? And haven't these brave soldiers earned the right to spend a little time with their families? You know, before their kids grow up not knowing them at all.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

ken from pa — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:04:22 GMT

Jerry and Frank

I have asked this before and i will ask it again, what is your definition of a "win" in iraq?

I know it's easy for the kool aid drinkers to reference a "win", but they never really define it. the reason is that they can't. the definition keeps changing. it's real easy to sit in the cheap seats. Like one of the soldiers said the other day, "if you don't have skin in the game, you are at the mall". Frank and Jerry, are you at the mall?

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Pat, Boston, MA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:08:05 GMT

Gary, I can't agree with you about Mica; I find her to be quite nice as I watch her. And her father is someone I would go to the ends of the earth to hear speak.

But I can agree with you about Keith Olbermann's program and the direction it has taken lately. It breaks my heart to see the junk they're putting on Countdown.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but perhaps his ratings will go down. It's the only way we can send the message on how disappointed we've become. We've complained to no avail.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

DEMs Fighting Back Against Demonic Wingnuts — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:16:26 GMT

Jerry, It is also clear that the GOP is the party that leavess the DEMs holding the bag after the GOP leads to the defeat of America

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

PJ — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:20:22 GMT

Honest Abe: Interesting that "name caller" was included in your list of names you were calling....
God bless you brother. Do you like to go fishing? I'm not being sarcastic, come on, I'll show a favorite spot, great fishing, maybe we can chill & see what's the same about us, why we both love America.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Steve, San Diego — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:20:52 GMT

I don't know if my town is the biggest military town in the country. Maybe Norfolk, VA or Killeen TX are bigger. But, in San Diego more and more military families are speaking out against the unfairness this mess is causing. Many in this thread have echoed the same feelings. My point is these families were once solid GOP voters. From what I hear, they are no longer going to drink the GOP kool-aid and will start voting for DEMs.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Scott in South Texas — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:35:31 GMT

republicans are only interested in blindly supporting anything and everything bush and them want to do, illegal or not, unconstitutional or not. As for Iraq, bush and them are not interested in victory; that would involve winning and then leaving. They have succeeded in invading and destroying the infrastructure of the country,
establishing an occupation intended to be permanent, and are now attempting to dominate the Iraqi government. This isn't about freedom for Iraqis or security for the U.S., it's only about imperial ambition and furtherance of U.S. economic and political interests. War is good for business, and is an extension of neo-con politics, and that is all that bush and them care about. It should be obvious that they care nothing for either the welfare of the volunteers in the military or the wishes of the American people.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

What were you thinking? — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:50:04 GMT

"Joe Lieberman is by no means a democrat, nor is he an independent. He is a republican. ... Shame on you Joe- being a democrat means caring about all US citizens"

Shame on Conn voters for re-elected this jerk. I hope they are happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Kevin Hurddle, Kansas City KS — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:54:09 GMT

[Keith Olbermann's] I can't believe I'm saying this, but perhaps his ratings will go down.

Is that even possible? Only his family members are watching now, but I hear his mom is thinking of bolting because of his loonieness.

O'Reilly uses Keith's show as a doormat to wipe his feet on before his show starts.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

jerry/corpus christi texas — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:54:12 GMT

Steve in San Diego:

Corpus Christi is the biggest and best military town in America. Any town that wants to get rid of their military bases and the jobs it generates, we'll be more then happy to take them. Since people in Virgina are so anti-military, we have offered to move Oceana down here and we are currently working on it. Virgina may be the birthplace of freedom, but we are the biggest supporters of freedom in the country.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Big Brother, Anywhere, USA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:59:03 GMT

jerry, I am following you

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Jeffersonian Don — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:02:49 GMT

Steve I don't know where you come up with " these families were once solid GOP voters", but the fact is that is untrue. I my father ,grand ,fathers ,uncles ,etc. etc.. all ex-mil. and non GOPers ,but I get the point

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Joe Einloth — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:20:29 GMT

Kevin, you must've missed the news that "Countdown"'s ratings are closer to O'Rally than a loufah!

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

PJ — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:27:17 GMT

EVERYthing's bigger in Texas.
(Sure do like that Bob Wills music)

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Jeffersonian Don — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:28:02 GMT

Jerry ,better be carful boasting . Big Brother might hear you and then call for a new series of base closings .You remember the series of closing that occured shortly after the conflict in Iraq started .I wonder who called for those closings. Anywho ,then CC could bask in a ghost town atmosphere like so many no ex-military towns.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

CitizenJ — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:34:20 GMT

Ok, so Petraeus is on record as saying counter-insurgency operations typically take 9 or 10 years to complete successfully - a "win", as we shall call it. Our troops have been fighting for almost 5 years now, but only fighting counter-insurgency operations for 1 or 2. So that means we have about 8 or 9 more years to go. Our forces are already strained and breaking, so the Democrats tried to pass legislation that would require them to stay home and rest for as long as they were deployed. That makes sense. But the Republicans - who claim to be the only ones supporting our troops - don't think they need rest. So, by the end of next year, when the "surge" forces are home, that will leave about 130,000 still in Iraq. They will have to come home whether there is progress or not, unless tours are extended.

So Bush will claim that we have been successful, and that is why troops are coming home. When they do come home, violence will likely rise again because it will have only been 3 years since we started our counter-insurgency campaign. So 6 years left, and less troops available. Meanwhile, ALL the troops are strained and will probably be less efficient because of war fatigue after 5 or 6 tours. So by 2010 or 2011, there will still be no political solution in Iraq, our troops will be spent, gas will be $4.00/gal, 8,000 troops will be dead, 50,000 troops will be injured/maimed, Osama bin Ladin will be laughing, the rest of the world will be saying "I told you so", and Bush will be the most hated public figure in American history (except, of course, among the jerries of the world).

All because the Republicans are "supporting" our troops.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Amy B Portland, ME — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:07:06 GMT

Scott in Texas. I agree with everything you said. Its a sad day when the America public is asked to support a war that is not in the best interest of our national security or our military. I have heard the saying "right in the beginning, right in the middle and right in the end." How can we "succeed" as the Republicans keep insisting, if the invasion was based on lies in the beginning, mismanaged in the middle, and conducted dishonestly to the end?

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Robert Catalano, Salem, OR — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:09:03 GMT

You know, I'm starting to get the feeling that those on the right who accuse the left of not caring about the soldiers are just as guilty of those they are accusing. You don't give a damn about the soldiers for any other reason than they are the direct instrument of Bush's foreign policy. You don't care how little they and their families are taken care of financially as long as they are in Iraq to fight for you. You don't care that their families and recently born children don't get to see them for a year at a time because they are in Iraq fighting for you, and you don't care if they have a larger incidence of PTSD from repeated tours as long as they are there to fight for you. How cold and callous can someone be when they let someone else do their fighting for them and then not give a damn about what happens to them as a result of the battles they are fighting for you.

Having been a soldier, having been in combat and having suffered as a result of it for years later, I can honestly tell you, it is not the Vietnamese people, the one's who went to Canada to evade the draft, or the one's who joined the National Guard or Reserves to avoid going to Vietnam that I am the most angry with. The people I dislike the most are the "Sunshine Patriots" who are willing to sit in their recliners armed with nothing but their trusty remote and their bag of potato chips and support sending young men and women to war with no more thought than about the next chip they pop into their mouths. The next time one of you reliner warriors want to complain about how are troops are fighting, go join the military yourself, or send your sons and daughters. Put up or shut up.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Lee Holmes — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:18:31 GMT

You people are confused. First,you cry crocodile tears over the ''dismantling''of the Constitution when it comes to granting foreign enemy combatants Habeas Corpus rights which appears nowhere in the Document. Then you cry ''Imperialist King''when the Constitution backs the president. NOT Congress in this matter. Congress has no constitutional right whatever in setting troop timetables. You are advocating an unconstitutional act by Congress. ALL that they can do is to cut off funding entirely to bring the war to an end. The Document grants the president and NO others,the mantle of military commander-in-chief. One person. Not over 500 people with disparate opinion,as the Founders instantly realized. Small wonder that support of Congress is now heading towards single digits,an American historical first.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

CJ — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:23:09 GMT

Until the GOP are convinced in this country nothing will change. I say about 2/3 more years before they wise up. It's been 4 yrs of stagnation in Iraq and confusion from the Bush/Pentagon(remember..he's the commander in chief, not Patraeus) and a loss of congress already, guess that wasn't proof enough. Or it points to how profoundly incompetent the GOP have become.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Marty RuBose, Chicago IL — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:30:27 GMT

Man, the knucklehead lefties sure turned on Joe L. quick. One year, VP candidate darling, a few years later, he's a jerk.

Maybe Turbin Durbin will be the next great VP candidate of the Democrats. He certainly fits the profile.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

lets think — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:35:21 GMT

Joe as always you assume too much. I have 2 nephews that served one now on perm dis. It has not changed his support for what we are doing nor mine. In our upside down world some how you equate support with failure. The milatary can finish this if we let them. I do fear however that our enemies are correct. We do not have the strength of our for fathers. In our instant gratification society we will fail, we will lose, we will suffer. We will have 4 years of another Carter. We will be the laughing stock of the world again, inflation will skyrocket, unemployment will boom, the govt will take controll of all business, which in turn will falter. Then some one like Reagan will apear and have the balls to say it is ok to be proud that you are an American.That some things are worth fighting and risking your life for. Once again we will succeed until the next time. Thus is the plight of America. We do it to ourselves every time. Bin Laden is a better student of our history than we are.....

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Houston — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:41:22 GMT

Jeffersonian Don [[Steve I don't know where you come up with " these families were once solid GOP voters", but the fact is that is untrue. ]]

What makes you think that American soldiers and their families enjoy being treated like garbage by Bush and his Stepford Republicans in Congress? What you and your family think is not representative of what US troops in Iraq think. Scientific polls of US combat troops in Iraq show that the majority believe the war was a waste of time and that they want it to end.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Houston — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:45:01 GMT

Lee Holmes [[Congress has no constitutional right whatever in setting troop timetables. ]]

Please cite the Article and paragraph in the Constitution that denies Congress this power. Bet you can't, can you? It's just another tortured (pun intended) White House "interpretation" like the ones that Gonzo made before he left his job as Attorney General in well-earned disgrace.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Joe Einloth — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:46:03 GMT

Hey, Lee, the constitution also calls for an actual declaration of war. Gloss over that one, did we?

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Joe Einloth — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:30:15 GMT

lets think, instantaneous gratification my hindquarters! Roosevelt took 3 1/2 years to beat Japan and Germany. It's taken the Chickenhawk Cheerleader in Chief longer than that to get us this far, which ain't very far at all!

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Gary Schear, bozeman Montana — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:35:14 GMT

lets think--"the military can finish this if we let them"...Explain. What is finish?
They are able to root out the last of the bad guys in one last fire fight? An unearthly silence falls over all of Iraq as families tentatively crawl from the wreckage of their houses and towns to greet the valiant US troops that have defeated, once and for all, the Bad Guys? This is how you think this will go down?
Rather you know it or not or will admit it or not, victory for this administration is having troops in Iraq for the next 50 years dieing at what they now consider an acceptable rate. The equation for them is that cold blooded and simple.
Permanent Presence for an acceptable cost.
There will be no cessation of hostilities. It will simmer on and on.
If it were my country that were occupied by foreign men with guns who do not speak my language I would devote my life and the lives of my children to making them hurt and bleed and finally leave, no matter how long it takes. I am sure you would do the same and your nephews would be by your side if we were, God forbid, invaded and occupied by a foreign power. Any patriotic American would. Why are you surprised at this resistance to our occupation and why do you think it can be so easily put down? We watched the Viet Minh and the Viet Cong fight for 70 years to rid their country of the French, the Japanese, the French again and finally us. For god sake learn from history!

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Amy B Portland, ME — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:47:10 GMT

"We will be the laughing stock of the world again"

America has never been held in such low regard as it has under Bush's leadership.

"That some things are worth fighting and risking your life for."

And somethings, like having a base in Iraq to protect our oil, are not.

"We will have 4 years of another Carter" A President who was secure enough in his manhood not to start a war over hostages? A guy with the vision to urge America to conserve oil and address its energy crisis?

"The military can finish this if we let them." The Iraq Study group, a nonpartisan board, and General Petraeus himself have said there can be no military solution to the civil war in Iraq, What is required is a political solution, as Sunnis, Kurds and Shittes agreeing how to live ogether. NO MILITARY SOLUTION. How is the military supposed to "finish this thing?" What does "finish this thing" look like?

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Jeffersonian Don — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:17:00 GMT

I agree with you Houston ...we have a problem!

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Peter, Pittsburgh, PA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:35:39 GMT

Lee Holmes wrote, First,you cry crocodile tears over the ''dismantling''of the Constitution when it comes to granting foreign enemy combatants Habeas Corpus rights which appears nowhere in the Document."

Read Article 1, Section 9, Lee.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Union Baby, Tennessee — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:40:32 GMT

Jerry CC - is your economy so bad in TX that you need a new military base and town to pep things up for you? Guess Rick is not as great as you all thought he would be?

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

End This War, Dallas, Tx. — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:47:24 GMT

Take the check and burn it.
Don`t give the bush anymore money to fund the war.
Just say we lost and leave it at that.
Too mant sons and daughters have already paid a hefty price for the oil that we are not going to get.
The war was a loss from the beganning with no goal/goals but the lies that have been told to us.
Just don`t give the money needed to found the war.
Show them that they can also play this game that their playing.
No FUNDS.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Jamie, Elmwood Park — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:58:35 GMT

For those of you who think our troops were deployed the same way as in View Nam:
"Extended tours of duty in the combat zone — some as long as 18 months — also are a departure from the past. In Vietnam, the standard tour of duty was 12 months. If a soldier was to be redeployed to the combat zone, Army policy mandated a 24-month period of recuperation or retraining between tours, said Larry Korb, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, a Washington think tank.
So, in View Nam it was a maximum of 12 months, with 24 months at home.
To all you neo-cons - in another few years it won't matter because you will have destroyed our armed forces because as more than one general has said, they are at the breaking point now.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Lee Holmes — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:31:40 GMT

Houston: Art.II,Sec.II. Congress is not granted this power. Only the president is. The judiciary would move to instantly seize the Democrats unconstitutional move even with passage and the expected presidential veto,with a veto override by Congress,and place it back into the hands of the president where it belongs.

Joe: You forget that the Congress has the power to ''make laws'',and did so,with the passage of the War Powers Act in 1973.

Peter: I saw that coming down the pike and was ready for it. You forget that exception[as was made by Lincoln],is granted in national emergency or to ''protect public safety'' as interpreted by the Executive,as decided by the Judicial. Not the legislative. Those who seek to invade the US for the purposes of damaging the safety of the Republic,or wherever its citizens stand [on a foreign battle ground,embassy,ship,base or other],are viewed as an ''invasion''entity,which is an area that Art.1 Sec.9 specifically addresses.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Lee Holmes — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:34:34 GMT

Jamie:What was it in WWII when we actually were able to win wars? You forget we had a draft in Vietnam. Our military is in no sense whatever of being ''destroyed''.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Dem, Rocky MTNs — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:44:14 GMT

Joe Einloth I agree Count Down is the best news show, but I do wish he'd skip the Brittany, Lindsey crap.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:48:15 GMT

Lee Holmes--This is not WWII. This is an undeclared aggression of choice based on goofy policy from a crackpot think tank. Stop comparing the two. That is intellectually ingenuous of someone like you who obviously knows the difference but spouts the talking points anyway.
You are correct, though, that our military is in no sense destroyed. It is in no sense defeated. It is unnecessarily stressed, and it is unnecessarily over extended due to poor civilian leadership and muddled strategic policy. If we end this now it will not be a defeat for the military or this nation. It will be a political defeat for the miss-managers and a victory for the ability of our system to correct for gross aberrations like the Bush Administration.

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Peter, Pittsburgh, PA — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:50:32 GMT

Lee Holmes wrote,
"Peter: I saw that coming down the pike and was ready for it. You forget that exception[as was made by Lincoln],is granted in national emergency or to ''protect public safety'' as interpreted by the Executive,as decided by the Judicial. Not the legislative."

You saw that coming down the pike and was ready for it? Then why did you write, "Habeas Corpus rights which appears nowhere in the Document?" Do you normally lie on purpose? Did you think you'd slip one by on everybody? Are you that desparate for a "gotcha" that you would lie to set it up?

Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Lee Holmes — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:36:52 GMT

Gary: But the means used to legally try enemy combatants ARE the SAME as ''in WWII''. Stick to the point man.Do not evade it. Both the Tokyo and Nuremburg WCTs did not use juries as the constituional definition of Habeas Corpus demands.Tokyo was a military tribunal solely[Nuremburg also used military judges,Americas was not one of these], and was adjudged by a military general.

Peter: Dumb and ignorant is no way to go through life. Your forget that the USSC in the HAMDI and HAMDAN decisions did not reach for the Document with regards to these enemy combatants but to the Geneva Accords[Second.1949] which is NOT the Constitution of the United States! The legal remedy for these non-citizens and combatants found on battlefields is not adressed by the Document.Thus the high court instead turned to a treaty that we had already entered in to which IS adressed by the Constitution.[Sec.II ''power to make treaties'']. Think before you so arrogantly act. And use my remarks IN context,if you please. Then we can dispense with this circular folderol.

Also see: HAMDI vs.RUMSFELD[USSC]
HAMDAN vs. RUMSFELD[USSC]