GOP MoveOn measure passes

M. Boley — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:36:43 GMT

Watch Congress' approval rating to go straight to zero. You idiots are worthless. Really.

John Kerry's impotent performance at the 'Don't Tase Me, Bro!' event and now this. What a bunch of spineless simpletons!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

jt, okc — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:37:03 GMT

...and this is why the congress' approval rating is 11%

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Blue state baby — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:41:55 GMT

My party is turning into a bunch of whimps!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Jesse Jackson — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:47:18 GMT

Blue state baby, your Party has always been a bunch of whimps.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:48:46 GMT

It's call "free speech", it doesn't madder if you agree with it or not. I don't agree with the ad, but it "dosen't" madder, it's free speech.P.S. "Bush Sucks" This is the Commander and Chief who has and still is betraying us ! He is the biggest frighin "jerk" you can find.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Carmen Colorado — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:48:57 GMT

So did this happen when the swiftboat ad came out? Republicans are morons just like the leader we have now.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

T-Rex — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:50:39 GMT

NO GUTS, NO GLORY - the democrats truly are a gutless bunch. Unfortunately they just cast a vote against the truth and against free speech, however ill-conceived the message delivery might have been.

Is it any wonder so many people are ready to trash to two-party system??

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Stopwatchingfoxnews, Rochester, NY — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:54:12 GMT

Why are they wasting time on this?

I don't recall democrats wanting a a similar resolution for all the right wing groups that went after John Kerry, General Betiste, and the numerous military people who have spoken up aginst this war.

Unfortuantely, the democrats in congress have been wimps for a long time and obviously not showing any signs of changing.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Sierra, SF — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:58:59 GMT

That's just GREAT !!
Don't bother cutting off funding for the Iraq War of Agression !!
Let's talk about MoveOn, istead !!
How about a vote on motherhood ?
Come on Congress, Are you for motherhood ??

GOP MoveOn measure passes

H P Boston — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:59:50 GMT

Well you know what we really do not give a rats ass about any nonbinding crap in Congress.. All of the repukes are nonbinding. Politics as usual and elections loom. Think before you vote Congress we are watching you.
The repukes railed against all the nonbinding the Dem's wanted an poo poo them to death. Well it's right back at ya kids!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Amber Fields, PA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:00:04 GMT

Unbe-flippin'-lievable. What freedom of speech? What right to dissent? Stay the curse.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

nuanced — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:01:53 GMT

Once again the Emily's list gals have gone over to the darkside. First it was the FISA vote. I sent an email to the organization asking what was up and never got an answer. Can anyone tell me what the heck is going on? The website claims it supports "progressive" women candidates. What is progressive about giving aid and comfort to the neocons? I think I've sent my last contribution. Also, Maryland is a blue state so that shoots the purple & red state argument.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

H P Boston — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:01:58 GMT

Well you know what we really do not give a rats ass about any nonbinding crap in Congress.. All of the repukes are nonbinding.
Politics as usual and elections loom.

Think before you vote Congress we are watching you.

The repukes railed against all the nonbindings the Dem's wanted and poo pooed them to death. Well it's right back at ya kids!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

PJ — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:02:04 GMT

I'm proud that my state senators did not cave & vote for this ridiculous, one more step to removing our rights, piece of crap, waste of time resolution. Freedom of speech is now only for statements approved by the gov't. Wake up & smell the facsism.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Jan, Nashua, NH — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:02:48 GMT

Go, Clinton and Dodd!
Kudos to any politician who still believes in free speech! The rest are pathetic.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Pat, Boston, MA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:10:34 GMT

Are they planning on rebuking Fox News, President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Colin Powell, George Tenent, Bill Kristol, Condi Rice and others for lying about WMD's in Iraq? Afterall thousands upon thousands have died.

Or is that considered okay by the GOP?

GOP MoveOn measure passes

kenn"HOW EASY YOU FORGET"O — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:11:23 GMT

MAX CLEALAND YOU BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!REpublicans have no room to talk.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

nuanced — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:11:55 GMT

You can dry your tears now General David "Peaches" Petraeus. The people who called you names have been scolded.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

OREGONIANS DONT FORGET SOLDIERS — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:13:14 GMT

I see our Democratic bobbleheads from Oregon once again are showing thier skunk stripes.

No backbone, even when it come to protecting the protectors.

D emocrat
N o spine
C vnts

GOP MoveOn measure passes

bobf — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:13:49 GMT

HEY what about the SWIFT BOAT ads. Hell they even used TV commercials to spread their lies. If they condemn the moveon ads then what about the Swift Boaters. Man, you republicans are sure scared of freedoms. Unless of course the republicans can use it for political gain. All republicans care about is power and money.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Let the volunteer army hear what you think — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:20:20 GMT

Yea BlewStateBabe, a bunch of wimps. When are the Democrats going to get some spine. Find a way to stand up and stick it to the General. Maybe take away some funding from the Veterns? Maybe shut down a few more military bases? That will teach that darn military-industrial complex SOB's a lesson. Let's get some backbone and have a spit on a returning sailor day? No reason to stick with just betraying the Generals, lets give it to the Majors and Master Sargents too. Dang if the Democratic Party wasn't such a bunch of backstabbing, two bit crooks, we could really give it to 'em.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Pat, Boston, MA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:22:46 GMT

Just a few years back, McCain also VOTED AGAINST giving troops what they needed as far as equipment. Actually, the entire GOP did.

Welcome to the United States of America in the 21st Century. Priorities.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:23:13 GMT

I think Congress finally got something right. I commend those with the courage to stand up to the people in our country who hate our troops. Leave our soldiers out of personal smear and attack politics. Attacking and smearing should be reserved for the majority of our worthless politicians not the brave young men and women who chose the noble profession of serving our country. If you can't see that then you're not only a terrible American but you obviously do not support our soldiers, are incredibly misinformed, completely distorted, and in general a waste of skin. But don't worry while you sit and comfortably post your idiotic rhetoric our soldiers will continue to fight and die for you. Thank God for those that support our troops and our country I know when I was a soldier those were the people I considered my countrymen and women. They were the ones who I was fighting for.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Adam, Pittsburgh, PA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:23:37 GMT

This is the stupidest crap ever. (By the way, maybe generals and other military personnel wouldn't be insulted if presidents weren't using them to make policy arguments - a total perversion of the military role.)

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Roger, Oakland, CA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:26:20 GMT

This is what's on MoveOn.org's site:

General Petraeus or General Betray Us?
Cooking the books for the White House

General Petraeus is a military man constantly at war with the facts. In 2004, just before the election, he said there was “tangible progress“ in Iraq and that “Iraqi leaders are stepping forward.”
Washington Post, “Battling for Iraq,” by David H. Petraeus. 9/26/04 (see below)
And last week Petraeus, the architect of the escalation of troops in Iraq , said ”We say we have achieved progress, and we are obviously going to do everything we can to build on that progress.”
The Australian, “Surge Working: Top US General,” by Dennis Shanahan. 8/31/07
Every independent report on the ground situation in Iraq shows that the surge strategy has failed.
GAO report, 9/4/07
NIE report, 8/23/07
Jones report, CSIS, 9/6/07
Yet the General claims a reduction in violence. That’s because, according to the New York Times, the Pentagon has adopted a bizarre formula for keeping tabs on violence. For example, deaths by car bombs don’t count.
“Time to Take a Stand,” by Paul Krugman. 9/7/07
The Washington Post reported that assassinations only count if you're shot in the back of the head -- not the front.
“Experts Doubt Drop in Violence in Iraq,” by Karen DeYoung. 9/6/07 l
According to news reports, there have been more civilian deaths and more American soldier deaths in the past three months than in any other summer we’ve been there.
The Associated Press, “Violence Appears to Be Shifting from Baghdad.” 8/25/07
National Public Radio, “Statistics the Weapon of Choice in Surge Debate,” by Guy Raz. 9/6/07
Associated Press, “Key Figures About Iraq Since the War Began in 2003.” 9/5/07
We'll hear of neighborhoods where violence has decreased. But we won't hear that those neighborhoods have been ethnically cleansed.
Newsweek, “Baghdad’s New Owners,” by Babak Dehghanpisheh and Larry Kaplow, 9/10/07
Ibid from the AP, “Violence Appears to be Shifting From Baghdad”
McClatchy, “Despite Violence Drop, Officers See Bleak Future for Iraq,” by Leila Fadel. 8/15/07
The New York Times, “More Iraqis Said to Flee Since Troop Rise,” by James Glanz and Stephen Farrell. 8/24/07
Most importantly, General Petraeus will not admit what everyone knows; Iraq is mired in an unwinnable religious civil war.
We may hear of a plan to withdraw a few thousand American troops.
The New York Times, “Petraeus, Seeing Gains in Iraq as Fragile, is Wary of Cuts,” by David Sanger and David Cloud, 9/7/07
The Washington Post, “Petraeus Open to Pullout of One Brigade,” by Robin Wright and Jonathan Weisman. 9/7/07.
But we won’t hear what Americans are desperate to hear: a timetable for withdrawing all our troops. General Petraeus has actually said American troops will need to stay in Iraq for as long as ten years.
The Hill, “Rep. Schakowsky: Petraeus hints at decade-long Iraq presence,” by Patrick FitzGerald. 8/10/07
Today before Congress and before the American people, General Petraeus is likely to become General Betray Us.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

M. Boley — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:26:58 GMT

What I find interesting about this is that it seems the spineless fools are reacting to the 'Betray Us' thingy instead of the 'meat' of the ad which, for those who fail to understand, is what was written underneath in smaller print. Those are FACTS and they cannot be challenged as they are TRUE. THAT is what really matters and, as usual, the ignorant sheep are screaming over the LEAST IMPORTANT part of the ad. Typical.

Let this be a lesson to anyone who aspires to be intelligent: FACTS matter much more than emotions. Period.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:29:35 GMT

Carmen, swiftboat was factual evidence from those who fought along with Kerry, even so I didn't agree with it and I didn't think it was right to attack Kerry on his military record regardless of what I think of the man. But the fact is Kerry was using his service record as a talking point in a political election and it seems all too often these days that in politics anything goes. The Betrayus add was a bunch of theorized worthless rhetoric NOT BASED IN FACT designed at discrediting a man who was not and is not running for a political office and most importantly he has committed his life to serving our country. So I ask you Carmen what have you done for our country?

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:29:49 GMT

B U S H S U C K S !!!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Bruce, NV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:32:28 GMT

Was MoveOn's free speech surpressed? Couldn't have been, because I recall seeing the ad.

Obviously, you people have no idea what you are speaking about.

As for the swift boat ads, they weren't questioning an active duty 4-star general's patriotism. They were former collegues of a veteran questioning his war stories. Again, folks, you have no clue what you are speaking about. No wonder political discourse in this country is in the crapper--just stick to the talking points, and use clever terms like "repukes".

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:34:26 GMT

OH BOY...15 MORE MONTHS OF THIS "REPUBLICAN" CRAP. EXCUSE ME I HAVE TO GO TO THE JOHN.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Roger, Oakland, CA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:36:38 GMT

Can any reasonable person explain to me why this ad needed to be repudiated? This was a White House report presented by Petraeus. Didn't the general do exactly what they said he'd do? Didn't he provide a picture that was at odds with other reports?

I can understand the Republicans doing this...it's a nice distraction from what's going on in Iraq and Washington...but the dem's should scream POLITICAL THEATER! and refuse to vote.

If I were there, I would simply recite the names of soldiers who have died in the past week and ask which is more important? American citizens having their lives cut short because of a failed policy...or A STUPID AD! Oh, silly me. The ADVERTISEMENT in a NEWSPAPER is SOOOOOOOO much more important. Someone actually dared imply that the good General was just Bush's Water Boy. It doesn't matter that it is TRUE...one must never exercise one's free speech when it may hurt the wingnuts' feelings.

The Dem's who voted for this crap are a bunch of wuss's.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

PJ — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:37:14 GMT

"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." This famous statement once defined the moral high ground occupied by the U.S.A. Wake up & smell the fascism.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:37:17 GMT

AT THE NEWS CONFERENCE TODAY BUSH "BRAGGED' THAT HE WAS A C STUDENT AND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CONDALESA RICE HAD A PHD.,BUT HE HAD THE BETTER JOB.WHAT A "IDIOT" !

GOP MoveOn measure passes

nuanced — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:37:19 GMT

Support the troops. Bring them home.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:41:36 GMT

Move on hates Bush, hates the military hates the Republican party hates Conservatives etc etc. The most ironic thing about this whole war everything that's been going on is the far left and some prominent Democrats have aligned themselves in such a way that when the US actually wins this war it will be bad for them. They revel in bad news. 90% of people I have personally come across who want us to lose this war have never even served in the military. It's unbelievable that the left want their country to lose. That’s like rooting against your favorite sports team. I have a question for all of those who want us to loose and pull out When we make progress (AND WE HAVE) and when we do eventually win are you going to be upset that your country America won the war? If the answer is yes then why are you still here? If you hate our country and our soldiers so much then why not leave?

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:48:20 GMT

nuanced Support the troops. Bring them home. ? You obviously don't support the troops or our country. As a former soldier statments like that make me sick you have no clue. It would be nice if all of these quasi Frech would move to Canada or any other country that supports their belief system.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Jay, Jacksonville Fl — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:49:46 GMT

Base upon those Democrats who voted against the bill or were conveniently absent...we know who are beholding to their master, Move On.org

GOP MoveOn measure passes

M. Boley — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:52:28 GMT

Mike PAV...

So what. Do you think anyone here gives a s**t about who MoveOn 'hates'?

You are simply parroting the 'party line' and, of course, your insistence that those who dissent should just leave is so laughable it's patently absurd. Who in the hell said anything about the left 'wanting the country to lose' except YOU? From where do you come to such absurd conclusions?

You do realise that the 'love it or leave' BS went out of style years ago, right? Did you fail to get the memo?

GOP MoveOn measure passes

M. Boley — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:53:25 GMT

You can be sick all you want, Mike. Here's a bucket.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

guy johnson, minnesota — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:55:52 GMT

The democrat party sold its soul attempting to save Bill Clinton`s corrupt rear end! And without the moral compass of the soul the likes of the moveon.org gutter people have taken the democrat party over!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

dogpile on repugs — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:02:16 GMT

Fascists!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:07:06 GMT

M. Boley So I take it you're going to stay in our country. I guess France and Canada don’t need any more burdens on their socialized healthcare system. I’m wondering what do we call people who want America to lose and but do it under the guise that they support our troops? It’s not someone I would refer to as an American. I think it’s time we brought back the love it or leave it because let’s face it really is. BTW how do I know prominent Democrats and the left want us to lose? It’s you who must be joking here’s one of several hundreds of examples Harry Reid said 3 months before we got the official results of the surge that “The surge is not working the w ar is lost.” If that’s not reveling in defeat then I don’t know what is. Not to mention his audacity to say that while our brave young men and women are risking their lives for people like him. So it is time to bring this back because if the shoe fits wear it. You don’t like it here? Then get out…the buckets full of the crap we’ve been hearing about defeat so you can take it with you on your way out.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Laurie, Manasquan, NJ — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:07:22 GMT

Hey Mike PAV - Ever hear of freedom of speech??? I believe it is one of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights. It means that although you might not like what I have to say, you should defend my right to say it. Too bad if it offends you...that's what being an American is all about. The people who stand up and say what they believe in are the true patriots not jerks like you. You're not a patriot, in fact Hitler's Germany would welcome people like you with open arms. Perhaps you could round up all those dissenters and send us to concentration camps so we don't offend your delicate ears.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Jamie, Elmwood Park — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:08:35 GMT

So perhaps the dems should come up with their own resolution about the Freedom Watch ads that link Iraq with 9/11. It has been PROVEN that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but these ads sure imply it does.
But then again, if a repub says it, it must be true (WMD). Heaven forbid, these people should concern themselves with something constructive, like the economy, health care, education, global warming.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

PJ — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:09:49 GMT

So many people here are missing the point. Its not about whether you like what moveon said. Its about their right to say it. Ah hell, you're never gonna get it, all this intellectualizing is over your head. Z has the right approch...BUSH SUCKS!!!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mik PAV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:10:10 GMT

The democrat party sold its soul. Amen Guy and it's base is blindly following them over the cliff of defeat. All the while touting move on and all the other crazy left's talking points.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

T-Rex — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:16:58 GMT

Mike PAV - ask your illustrious leaders in the White House what they've done for and to their country lately while you're taking your 'patriots poll' - your facts are dead wrong all around. Petraeus spun the truth as he was ordered to do. Surely you don't think by now, with the track record of this administration, that a front man like Petraeous (in a long succession of replaced generals) is allowed to say whatever comes into his head???

The Swiftboaters were discredited altogether, but too late to save Kerry the damage that was done....McCain and Max Cleland (two more veterans as you may know) were subjected to the same underhanded sabatoge by Bush and company (probably in all cases orchestrated by Karl Rove ) - and yet McCain is still kissing George (missing in action) Bushes' a$$ - this is not lost on voters (and his own political party) and for his complete sacrifice of character for political gain - he's a goner.

Unfortunately Kerry didn't respond 'swiftly' enough to do himself any good and Max Cleland (a triple Vietnam amputee) was ruined politically and replaced by a republican. Without doubt Clinton's impeachment (a completely cynical move on the part of the GOP since it was without hope of success) was done purely for political gain - and this worked pretty damn successfully (staged by Newt the-man-without-morals Gingrich himself). You can see why those that are not republicans (and some that are) tend to despise the current administration with a vengeance. The shame of it is the democrats don't resort to the same tactics - but then, there's only one Karl Rove, and one Newt Gingrich...and one Dick Cheney, etc., etc. etc.

Finally, you're supporting the worst administration in the history of our nation - I hope you're doing it proudly. And yes, I served - in the last fiasco ..... there are countless veterans on my side of the fence these days.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Diane, Grand Blanc, MI — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:20:00 GMT

If you had the opportunity to review the ad, I don't feel it was condescending to the General per se. What I took from it was that it was more or less the General following his orders from the President. I wonder how many of the senators who voted on this even bothered to review the ad itself. As we've been told repeatedly that Bush is the "Commander in Chief," that leads me to believe that Petraeous is beholden to him, not the other way around. Thank you Move On and keep up the good work!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

M. Boley — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:21:41 GMT

Mike PAV...

Obviously, you are not intelligent enough to understand the distinction between 'wanting to lose' and 'losing'. Just because someone says we are losing does NOT mean they WANT us to lose. What part of that are you failing to comprehend?

See, the problem is that you want everyone to say only 'positive' things, in spite of the possibility that they MAY NOT be TRUE, and just shove all 'negative' things under the carpet. In other words, just be optimistic and do not question or doubt anything to the contrary. That is not an intelligent position to take.

Disagree all you want with that but it is a FACT. And I certainly am not about to 'sugarcoat' anything because that is dishonest.

As to the rest of your post concerning 'love it or leave' I will not dignify it with a response because your position cannot be debated on an intellectual level. I do not debate things on an emotional level.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Laurie, Manasquan, NJ — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:24:32 GMT

Mik PAV - You're the one who should leave this country. If you support the troops so much, why don't you join up and put your back side where your mouth is. It's easy to be a cheerleader from the sidelines....Oh, I support the troops, I support the troops!! Yeah! So what?? Supporting the troops means get them the hell out of harms way and back home to their families where they belong. That's really supporting the troops. Your support gets them a nice flag draped coffin and a purple heart. Shame on you and your think alike buddies.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:26:04 GMT

Laurie, Manasquan, NJ You need to go back and read my post. I'm glad people stood up to this and called it what it really is an attack ad. I stand by my comments that we should not be attacking and smearing our soldiers becuase I believ it's irresponsible during a time of war. But I do believe in free speech AND never said otherwise. So now you're comparing what I said to Hitler? Typical left talking point just because you're okay with irresponsible free (hate) speech doesn't mean that those who disagree with what's being said are somehow responsible for killing over 6 million people or that we would ever do something like that. You don't support our troops you don't support our country so why not leave and see if you can find anywhere on earth as great as America. And when you do leave, I hope that free speech thing still works out for you but I wouldn't bet on it.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

cms — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:30:04 GMT

This is like a headline from The Onion. It's nearly impossible for me to believe that Congress spent the day debating this issue when there is a war -- a WAR -- going on, which they are doing nothing about.

Every time I think I don't have any more outrage left about this war, our elected officials do something even more outrageous and dispiriting than usual.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Nick, Ohio — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:30:56 GMT

The people who voted to condemn the ad are the reason why many of us normal citizens believe the Constitution has become the toilet paper for the Bush clan.

If someone cannot issue an opinion and then not be slammed by the US Senate, then something is wrong. Whether Petraeus was truthful in that the comments were his own or not is not immaterial, just misleading. The Bush Administration picked Petraeus soley for his strong ties to their philsophical beliefs of that god-awful war in Iraq. Yessiree, we can win it!! Wow... how gullible are we? How do you now define a win? How can we define "success" when we have little to clearly call as being successful? Maybe the military has been successful in some operations. However, what is the net effect on the political scene in Iraq? Are the people, the country of Iraq any better off since the Surge was instilled? Will we ever get out of that country and let them sort out their differences? Will we ever realize the only reason to be in Iraq is to protect the oil?

The US Senate (those who voted for the GOP bill) should be ashamed of themselves by their rebuking of the MoveOn ad. If you don't like what someone says, either defend the opposing view or leave it alone. Sometimes, just ignoring it will make it less important and it will disappear as an issue.

And, the Dem bill is not much better... protecting the military against unflattering opinion? Do we live in a dictatorship, a reincarnated Roman Empire or a democratic republic with the best Constitution ever written?

We certainly live in interesting times.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Paulet, Simsbury, CT — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:31:12 GMT

I don't like Move on but this is ridiculous -- what about all the right wing nuts and their comments -- Don't ya think that Bush is bringing this all up to cause a distraction because of all the bad news this week??? Blackwater, Canadian Money, Economy, etc, etc. --- we are not in school -- let's talk real issues not this junk over and over and over again --- and it looks like Karl is going to do a Hillary again --- do we really want this -- and acted out on TV it is an embarrassment to our children if they were raised properly -- it's just a joke
Stop all the bickering unless it is on a real issue.

Besides, BUSH betrayed US with using Petraeus -- he walked into that job with his eyes open, their were those before him who did refuse.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Greg P Newbury Park CA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:42:06 GMT

So what if an ad sticks it to the General. King Bush would have us all in the military and practicing his religion as well. Dems need to lift some weights and move to the front! 2 out of every 10 Americans live in California (A BIG BLUE STATE). The system is broken and giving equal representation to Red states that have a tiny portion of the population isn't the will of the people. Rock musician Henry Rollins with his IFC talk show is the only person I've heard with any spine on the left. Rock on Henry!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:43:39 GMT

Roger, Oakland, CA Move on.org has an agenda there is extreme left bias in all they say and do. Did you know that even the lowly dreaded Fox News presents a both a left and a right point of view? Even they are more credible than moveon. So don't waste our time with extreme left nonsense find something nonbiased to present your argument otherwise it's meaning less.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Bill K., Arlington, VA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:52:13 GMT

01.20.09

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:55:30 GMT

How can someone say they support our troops but they don't support the war when our soldier's goal is to stay and fight and win? I'm tired of lefty's hiding behind this statement to use it as cover for attacking our troops. You can hate our President, our country, the Conservatives and Republicans BUT don't try to sell us that garbage that you support our troops it's quite pathetic. It's like rooting for your home team to lose and hoping the team gets off the field before the end of the game all the while proclaiming that you support them when the team's goal is to stay in and win.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Scott in South Texas — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:55:55 GMT

All this talk about victory vs. defeat, stay the course vs. surrender, liberating the Iraqi people and bestowing the blessings of democracy upon them vs. abandoning them to bloody chaos, ad nauseum, is totally bogus. The truth is our current foreign policy for the Mid-East, designed and adored by the neo-cons, is to establish and maintain permanent military bases in the region so as to perpetuate a military presence conveniently located to facilitate the next wars (Iran and Syria). The neo-cons require a permanent, robust military presence in this region to protect our access to the region's oil, to protect Israel, and to show any other nations who would dare to compete with us strategically that we do in fact have the biggest dicks, so to speak.

Our "friends" the Saudis threw us out, but this tyrannical, despotic, oppressive regime is apparently not sufficiently "evil" to warrant invasion and overthrow. Rather, the Saudi royal family is somehow worthy of our support and friendship, despite the fact the they are undoubtedly the world's greatest financiers and exporters of extreme, Wahabbi-style, Islamic terrorism.

Fortunately for the neo-cons, there was Iraq and Saddam, and fortunately for their supplicant, george w. bush, there were the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Otherwise, our troops would not be fighting for their lives in Iraq in 2007. As for staying the course and winning, if the troops stay for another ten, twenty, or thiry years, to the point that only 50,000 or so must be stationed there at all times, and to the point that only thirty or forty soldiers or marines are killed each month, would that be what war-lovers would consider victory ?

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Dave C, Duluth, MN — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:56:27 GMT

1. Bush is a poor president. He dropped the ball. 2. Moveon.org is an organization that offers NOTHING to the country. So really who cares what they wrote - the funny part is it proves they have nothing but name calling. 3. Too late to just quit and leave Iraq - we broke it, we bought it. 4. Dems - instead of blaming and pointing fingers, come up with a solution that could actually work. You will win the White House in a landslide if you do. Reps, become the party of ideas again - please. Defending a lame duck president who seems to have let go of the wheel is a waste of brain power. Can some candidate become the candidate of America?
We need to realize that this country and the lives we cherish are in jepordy, not from outside forces, but from the Anti American forces in the Democratic party and the Lemming forces in the Republican party. Our Greatest leaders do not run for office because of the garbage that Moveon and Mike Moore and activist on both sides say about tham - true or not. Our govenment acts like the house of commons in England where they yell at eachother and accomplish little. No need to move to France, we are doing a graet job of replicating it here! Enough all ready!! Who cares about the stuff that DOES NOT MATTER like who called who names. Grow up and lets become the country we can be!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

nuanced — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:57:25 GMT

Right PJ, get it down to a level they can comprehend. They are nuance challenged.
Bush Sucks!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:59:52 GMT

Mike obviously doesn't speak to the 60-70% of Americans that support troop withdrawal. The best way to support the troops is to stop forcing them to fight another country's civil war.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:10:48 GMT

News Alert---- Bush still sucks---that is all. Stay tuned for further alerts.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:11:42 GMT

GOOD EVINING MY FELLOW AMERICANS, YES IT'S TRUE BUSH STILL SUCKS.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Liberalism is a Mental Disorder — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:11:53 GMT

Oh my, Laurie, Manasquan, NJ, no one is locking up these people, rather admonishing them. Also, the Moveon ad states information from other sources to which General Patreaus was asked and answered. Read his testimony.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

timetokickthemout!!! — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:18:23 GMT

its sad, free speech is being demolished by all who are in power (both the republicans AND the democrats)..

maybe its time we got ourselves a NEW congress, and failing that maybe its time to dissolve the current government like Jefferson was fond of thinking and reconstitute it to be something more FOR THE PEOPLE!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Al, KS — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:20:02 GMT

I was one of those who thought Move-On was a little over the top and their timing wasn't that good. I supported the purpose of the ad, but not particularly the method. But...now I see how much play they're getting. It's being debated in the Senate, mentioned on the campaign trail, plastered all over the news, and, of course, debated on blogs such as this....maybe, just maybe, the Move-On folks are a whole lot smarter than I gave them credit for when they first ran the ad. I'll even bet that their contributions are up as well. And maybe the Republicans aren't all that smart to be giving the ad soooo much publicity. So who's smarter, the Republicans or Move-On?

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Seth — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:40:25 GMT

Hello all my former Fetuses. Yes that is right if your mother had the choice maybe you would not be around. Who, cares about George, "I am a marxist, with unknown roots to my wealth Soros." It is this simple congress under the dems has a lower rating than a fake conervative president. By the way people NEO Con, means, "New Coservative." Well if you go back to true coservative Values i.e. Plato, (and yes the The Republic is conservative doctrine), Michael Savage (my favorite) , John Locke, G.W.(that is Washington my slower liberal friends), Lincoln, Eisenhowser, Truman, Goldwater, etc. You will find that Pres. is not a true conservative and in fact is a liberal. That makes all of you screaming "red diaper doper babies," Michael Savage's words not my own. I know this will make many of you upset, but such is the ridiculous time we live. Those who sit by and let these thoughts of social equality and Marxism creep into their lives are doomed to live under oppression. The True road to freedom is just this, stop supporting the new socialist party and their attack dogs the ACLU, and Moveon.communism. If you like a socialist state move to where we all fled at some point. Yes, this will hurt but no matter what race,color, or creed you are your ancestors were smart. Wether they were forced or came on their own they all fled some sort of socialist/ communist / dictatorship, to come to the U.S. So do not ruin this country for future generations stop trying to move this country towards a the Europe that many of us just fled.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Bruce, NV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:43:55 GMT

Nick, no one said MoveOn shouldn't have an opinion. They are entitled to it, and they should shout it from the rooftops if they desire. However, certain things cross the line. Calling any soldier,much less an active duty general "Betrayus" crosses that line.

Unfortunately, civility seems to have gone out the window, as demonstrated on these boards everyday, by folks from the left and the right.

It was a clever bit of politics however, on both the left and the right. It's another arrow in the quiver of the GOP to paint Hillary as too lefty. Meanwhile, Obama outsmarted her, by refusing to vote.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Eric Timco — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:44:20 GMT

I think the canidates money and Influnece need to be American. This George Soro's guy funding move-on is not American and should not be able to have any influence in American politics. Imagine a foreign power trying putting in weak American leaders to make bad decisions so they can overthrow the country???

GOP MoveOn measure passes

M. Boley — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:45:30 GMT

Mike PAV...

You are a sidestepper. You won't address my points because you can't. Just admit it. Admit that you are at a loss when someone of superior intellect challenges you. Admit that the best you can do is regurgitate Rightwing radio BS.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Eric Timco — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:45:47 GMT

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Houston — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:50:48 GMT

Cornyn is a disgrace. I'm sure he voted against the Webb bill that really did support the troops. Much easier to score cheap political points while Cornyn and the rest of the Republican robots hurt the troops and our country by keeping Bush's Iraq fiasco from ending.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

AP from IL — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:51:09 GMT

If Republicans in congress have a moral compass there is something seriously wrong with it. Voting in outrage to condemn a political add, but heartlessly refusing to vote in favor of troops spending at least as much time with their families as they have spent in combat is mind boggling. The lunacy of the pro war argument is that we can actually win an idealogical war with an exhausted, conventional army in a land where, by our very presence,we are actually creating more enemies than we are killing.

The self righteous hypocrites who feel that it is OK for a very small percentage of the US population to bear almost the entire burden of this mess are the ones who need to get out, preferably to Iraq to lend a hand. And any Republicans in congress who are only waiting to win their primaries before bailing on this war when they know people are dying every day, should be charged with murder.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

M. Boley — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:05:59 GMT

"However, certain things cross the line. Calling any soldier,much less an active duty general "Betrayus" crosses that line."

So, Bruce, how do we define what that 'line' is then?

Sorry, but I really don't give a damn about 'subjectivity'. Your personal feelings, hate to break it to ya, do not mean squat. You cannot speak for everyone and for you to insinuate that discourse somehow has to follow some vague 'guidelines' is absolute rubbish. Lemme tell ya something: I speak my mind and I do NOT give a damn what anyone thinks of it. I am not a sheep and I do not follow any unwritten 'rules' that some loser devised when it comes to what I say. If someone deserves to be 'attacked' then they will be attacked. Simple as that.

If you do not like it then you certainly do have the freedom to not listen. Think about it.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

T-Rex — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:00:53 GMT

Seth - don't they have a pharmacy where you come from? You forgot your meds when you came ashore - ye gods!! We let anybody in don't we???

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Roger, Oakland CA — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:10:10 GMT

I posted the ad for one simple reason: so that the criticism and the sources of criticism could be read first-hand. Too often, we rely on 3rd parties to do our anlyses; so whether you like or dislike MoveOn, believe they aren't credible or believe they have an agenda (that's kind of silly...of course they have an agenda) it is not relevant.

The fact that we are at War or that this is a 4 Star General also isn't relevant. Some believe you shouldn't criticize a general, a President, or a war when you're at war. Others believe war is when you should be the most skeptical. Both sides believe that world-view is "supporting the troops."

Repudiating the ad is a stunt...pure and simple. It does absolutely nothing, and there are more important things to be debating.

Meanwhile, we have criticism with sources. We have something to evaluate. Are we? Of course not. It's just too easy to bloviate.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

nuanced — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:21:00 GMT

The neocons want and expect the progressives to be better than they are. Their motto is "do as we say not as we do". I'm flattered that they have such a high opinion of us and want us to remain superior.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

nuanced — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:30:40 GMT

Support the troops. Bring them home.

There is a reason it is called the Defense Department and not the Offense Department. There is a sacred trust between our nation and our military that we will not spill their blood except for a very good reason in defense of our country. We betrayed that trust when we sent them to die in an optional agressive first-strike war against a country that did not attack or threaten us and now to die as a detested occupation force for feeble reasons that change by the month and definitions of winning that change just as often. That sacred trust was betrayed by President Betrayus, Senator Betrayus, Representative Betrayus, Republican Betrayus and yes also General Betrayus who became a collaborator with the betrayers.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Bruce, NV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:50:41 GMT

M Boley, speaking your mind must be awfully exhausting for you.

Where's that alleged "superior intellect" you possess? You certainly fail to show it in your quotidian postings of rubbish and name-calling.

One of the reasons the left will fail in '08 is precisely due to the lack of civility that I referenced earlier. That, and the conviction that they are smarter than everyone else--that kind of hubris has cost liberals before.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Bruce, NV — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:53:14 GMT

Laurie, Manasquan--Interesting that you want Mike to defend your free speech, but are so willing to squelch his, isn't it?

I ask again, how was MoveOn's free speech impacted? Did not their ad run, along with subsequent ads? 'twould seem that, like so much else, the "destruction of the Constitution" has been greatly overblown.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

T-Rex — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:12:31 GMT

Seth - if you think George Bush is a liberal you must have come from place with a most repressive government indeed! My guess - somewhere in eastern Europe, Russia, Georgia, maybe the Ukraine?

Certainly no where in western Europe - Oh, and don't make the mistake of confusing conservatives with neo-conservatives....two very different political animals. And for God's sake, listen to someone besides Michael Savage for information and entertainment. This guy appeals to the basest emotional instincts of the vastly uninformed right-wing nation (yes, those neocons that you confuse with conservatives) - Plato?? No relation to Michael Savage I would think.

If you've come from a repressive political culture you need to expand your new political horizons - forget that creeping socialism and incipient communism monster under the bed (it's not happening here - you're safe). Start hanging out with liberals and progressives to get you head straightened out - start getting used to the unfamiliar in other words. Tune into Media Matters and their vast library of liberal and progressive links. Once we depose King George and his entourage we will all be free again, and so will you.

This is something you can get used to - I promise!!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Al Diaz, Ashburn VA — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:30:33 GMT

And Democrats say they support the troops!!! hah, with statements like MoveOn's and the unwillingness to call anti-americans for what they are, they have shown where they stand for. Forget about Bush, the Democrats will drag this country down the tube of unti-americanism in two to three years from now. At least we, conservatives outside the beltway have shown we're for the troops.

I say, let's close the government and start a new one with real people who what to make this country better. Dems and Reps have shown they are impotent to do that!!!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

mm,ma — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:35:02 GMT

by that token,one should not say anything against the president too since he is the Commander in Chief.
So all you democrat wimps should keep quite lest it be brought to vote.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Richard, Washington State — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 03:36:20 GMT

Sounds like a lot of confused, conflicted and bewildered libdems on this post today. But why worry? They have each other to take it out on. Sweet.

28-70 on the Feingold vote and you can't even get your best folks to support MoveOn.org. Hey, maybe the other side will lose one tomorrow but for today you guys mostly suck!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

jerry/corpus christi texas — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 04:14:41 GMT

I'm loving this......

You bunch of bed wetting liberals can't even keep your own party in line......

why don't you try third party and see if any other Americans will listen to your hallucinations?

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:43:16 GMT

Laurie, Manasquan, NJ wrote… “You're the one who should leave this country. If you support the troops so much, why don't you join up and put your back side where your mouth is.” NEWSFLASH! Laurie I already served my country I’m a Proud Army Vet 3 of the 3rd Calvary Scout Brave Rifles! And I still have a lot of buddies that are serving over there NOW. What have you done for our country except complain and undermine our Troops with the help of a political party that’s invested in defeat. I’ve been posting at First Read on and off for over a year maybe you should research someone before you attack them, come to think of it maybe you should research what’s really going on in the world and the war and not just regurgitate what you’re programmed to hear and say. But I guess it would be too much to ask that you go find the facts that prove you’re wrong.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:02:43 GMT

M. Boley. Sorry for not responding to you in a timely manner I actually have a life to lead. I’m not sidestepping you. But first I’m going to humor you. Let’s just say you’re the most intelligent human being on this planet (stranger things are possible) it still doesn’t make up for your lack of common sense. So let’s ask ourselves who gains if we lose in Iraq? Ding, ding, ding! The answer is multiple groups: Let’s start with the obvious the Democratic Party. To be fair I’m sure that the Democrats didn’t or maybe in their heart of hearts do not want us to lose but the simple fact is they have been preaching doom and gloom death and destruction not to mention the fact that it would be a political disaster for them if we win over there. They have invested in defeat it is a fact in all they do and say. A prominent black Democratic leader actually said when asked the question: What would victory in Iraq mean to the Democratic party? He said and I quote “It would be really really bad for us. Next group to benefit, you guessed it al Qaeda I don’t think I need to state the obvious (genocide ethnic cleansing make Vietnam look like a picnic that will take place if we pull out). If we do everyone that’s against our troops finishing their mission should be forced to watch the media coverage of the horrific acts that will occur. Finally we have Iran who will use our loss and their development of nuclear weapons to establish a hold on the Middle East and with that 80% of the world’s oil supplies. I could go on and on but if you don’t get it now you probably never will. So keep your head buried in the sand with moveon.org feeding you talking points I guess it’s one way to escape reality.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:13:18 GMT

M Boley "I am not a sheep and I do not follow any unwritten 'rules' that some loser devised when it comes to what I say". No you're just a proud naive little democrat that gets his marching orders and talking points from moveon.org and the like, I love how these groups actually tell liberals how to argue with conservatives. Discredit their sources of information and leave them speechless, ring any bells? Who' the mindless sheep M Boley?? I mean really try to come up with something on your own that makes sense. Do your own research form your own opinions then maybe you sound intelligent enough to actually debate. But for now you’re really starting to bore me so I’m going to “move on”…forgive the pun

GOP MoveOn measure passes

H P Boston — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:34:01 GMT

Mike PAV...Baaaaaaaaaa

GOP MoveOn measure passes

H P Boston — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:38:35 GMT

Mike PAV...Baaaaaaaaaa

GOP MoveOn measure passes

nuanced — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:55:05 GMT

Scott in South Texas(Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:55 PM), very well said. I agree 100%. Everyone should scroll back and read it and think about it. It expresses the real choices we face.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:44:54 GMT

HP Boston. That's very telling and very original usually I'm met with silence when liberals lose a debate. Is Baaaaaaa a typical liberal response for you HP when you can't win a debate? I love shutting down useless rhetoric and extreme lft false taalking points.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

H P Boston — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:21:38 GMT

MIKE, Sheep are not silent and need to be relieved of their big woolly rhetoric.
I'm sure that there is no telling you anything, you are herded by the sheep dog named shrub and baa, away you go! Go back to your pen and save the crap you shake off your wool for the other sheep!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Mike PAV — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:54:19 GMT

HP Boston You are right there's no amount of BS that you can tell me that I haven't already heard from the left before. The difference between you and me is I actually listen to and watch everything from Alex Bennett and CNN to Fox News and Sean Hannity. I agree with some points I hear on the left and disagree with others I hear on the right. You do not. Please don't bother lying deny this. You listen to only those talking points that you agree with and tune everything else out so forgive me for not being offended by your typical response but I've seen and heard it before. I am obviously making a statement becuase I'm tired of cowards hiding under the guise of supporting our troops, pretending they speak for our troops saying they support our troops when at the end of the day they don't support their mission. You can't have your cake and eat it too and it's about time you're called out on it who better to do that then a former soldier.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

Larry Mayer — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:12:54 GMT

On the mark Mike PAV!!

GOP MoveOn measure passes

H P Boston — Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:31:48 GMT

Okay Mark I hate the troops I hate the Mission I hate the shrub I hate you! There are you happy now all the words that YOU HATE are right there for you. Enjoy your glee, your I KNEW IT DAY, hey shit yourself! Pretend you are so superior for the troops!
You and Larry go for a beer and support the troops (HOW?) piss and moan because not everyone watches Fox and agrees with you!
You pretend your support and I'll pretend mine.

GOP MoveOn measure passes

REG; East Valley Phx. AZ — Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:27:27 GMT

I can’t imagine anyone really being upset with the ‘moveon.org’s’ “general Betray-us” ad considering it is all politics and all the mud slinging that goes on from both sides, besides it has a real basis of truth in it in that undoubtedly Gen Pertraeus slanted his report to be favorable in support of Bush (he would have been crazy not to). What amazes me is how easily the Democrats are intimidated and ready to cave in. I mean you would think they would recognize by now the Republican often used tactic, probably a Karl Rove strategy, to ‘not answer the criticism but rather attack the critic’. Personally I would have more respect for the Democrats if they would have told the Republicans to quit whining and to just explain why several other reports and the facts totally contradict General Petraeus’ report. How can we ever expect to see some honesty and a checking of the flagrant arrogance from the Republicans if the Democrats always just ‘put their tail between their legs and run’? It would all be laughable if our troops weren’t getting killed in the process while our politicians are playing these silly games.