First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

karen, Millburn NJ — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:45:40 GMT

"Hillary’s final hurdle? So far this campaign season, Clinton has cleared -- at least right now -- three important hurdles: 1) the past Clinton baggage; 2) questions about her gender; and 3) her Iraq war vote."

1) wrong
2) wrong
3) wrong again.

Just because it isn't mentined ( yet, and should be again) does not mean the hurdle has been cleared. What nonsense!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Chuck, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:50:34 GMT

I have said it before, and I will keep on saying it...I want more and that means Senator Obama. HRC doesn't give me much, and I expect continuing partisan politcs & a huge scorched earth attack from neo-cons with HRC as the nominee or President.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

vanreuter, NY NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:53:49 GMT

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/25/opinion/25brooks.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

Someone says that you can't win without the center. They are correct.

Van

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

bubba — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:58:54 GMT

i can't believe anyone half educated or with any sense of moral obligations to this country could vote for hilary? her husband did nothing but get rid of American jobs with NATO, do nothing about our terrorist attacks during his presidency in Kenya, Tanzania, and at the world trade center (1st attack) and numerous threats by osama and al queda, get head in the oval office and then commit purgery, and then the clinton family moving to new york from arkansas and are living for free off of taxpayers money and still charging the secret service a monthly rent the same as their mortgage, while being accussed of an entire list of suspicious deaths directly linked to the clinton family over the years and yes being accussed of overseaing one of the biggest drug drop locations in mena, arkansas while being governor and working with president george bush sr. hillary is even worse. she flip flops on the war, she's very outspoken, helped the smoking ban in new york (because our government now loves teling us adults what to do and how to live our lives), she's for murdering our babies, and doesn't have any respect for our troops. front runner, please God help us. I'm not a Bush fan at all, but i would really like someone that's at least half honest running our country for at least 4 years. remember people, we are at war and this is a holy war to a lot of muslims overseas and in this country. we need a strong leader, definately not hillary, please.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

American Voter — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:01:48 GMT

The Clintons were scum bags then & they're scum bags still.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:02:32 GMT

From the comments I've seen and from the position of MSM, I am not so sure that the Clinton campaign and Democrats in general aren't prepared to just put on blinders and simply run around the electability hurdle and head full speed for the General Election...where of course the hurdle appears...again...for real, carried there by disgruntled Independents and Republicans who otherwise may have voted democratic or at least stayed home on election night and gotten drunk.

Can't win the general without the center.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Shadow, Hamden, CT — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:04:23 GMT

Clinton clearing the hurdle of her baggage four months before voting begins, huh? Did Bill Clinton threaten to pull an interview with you guys :-)

If America boots the Democratic majority in Congress because not enough has changed (won't happen), then everyone would need to go back to civics class, or perhaps math class. Not a single important thing on the Congressional agenda has been withheld just because of Democratic votes, and all of it would pass if not for Republican congressman, senators, and a Republican President. The American people understand that, which is why Republicans trail by twelve points in the general Congressional ballot; people realize that with nine or ten more seats in the Senate, ten or fifteen more seats in the House, and a Democratic President, this country has the ability to actually move forward in a very significant way over the next few years to enact policies 70% of the public agrees with.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

vanreuter, NY NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:04:57 GMT

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_2008_florida_democratic_primary
Tuesday, September 25, 2007

New York Senator Hillary Clinton holds a twenty-five percentage point lead over Illinois Senator Barack Obama Florida’s Presidential Primary. The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in the state found Clinton at 47%, Obama with 22% support, and Edwards the top choice for 11% of Likely Primary Voters. Four percent (4%) of voters prefer one of the other candidates while 15% are undecided. A month ago, Clinton led by nineteen points." To those who call themselves democrats but say that they won't vote for her,
"Clinton is viewed favorably by 86% of Democratic Primary voters, Obama by 67% and Edwards by 62%."
That would put you in the 14 percentile. Wail away.

Leading in all 4 (3 by double digits) in the state primaries.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

Van

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

MK,MO — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:05:28 GMT

"Hillary’s final hurdle? So far this campaign season, Clinton has cleared -- at least right now -- three important hurdles: 1) the past Clinton baggage; 2) questions about her gender; and 3) her Iraq war vote"

you guys are starting to sound like van (not a good thing) your claims of hillary clearing the 3 "hurdles" some would say is greatly overstated. so I suppose everyone should kick back and wait for your declaration of hillary as president, probably sometime latter this week maybe? your shameless biased coverage of this election cycle has reached a new low, if you look at the posts on your own blog it is unquestionably clear that clinton is the most divisive candidate ever to run for office, she is the only dem candidate that many dem's and independents will not vote for under any circumstances, not exactly a feather in her hat, and the only dem candidate that will cause the repubs to descend on the polls like a swarm of locusts to vote against, you can keep trying to shove her down the throats of the voters and the voters will keep spitting her back up

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

HP Waldorf, Albany NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:06:58 GMT

Clinton has cleared -- at least right now -- three important hurdles: <<<<

Cleared hurdles? Guys, she hasn't even gotten to the track.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

V. Lombardi, Green Bay WI — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:08:28 GMT

Someone says that you can't win without the center. They are correct.

You need a left guard, and a wide receiver too.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

grace, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:08:57 GMT

Now we understand the triangulation. Hillary was with him before and she will most stay the course. Bush/Cheny lite. Also explains why the right wing papers have not done a hatched job on her so far they think she is the best democrat to continue Bush policies:

This is the most recent version of this article. View article history.
Examiner Exclusive: Bush quietly advising Hillary Clinton, top Democrats
Washington, D.C. (Map, News)

- President Bush is quietly providing back-channel advice to Hillary Rodham Clinton, urging her to modulate her rhetoric so she can effectively prosecute the war in Iraq if elected president.
In an interview for the new book “The Evangelical President,” White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten said Bush has “been urging candidates: ‘Don’t get yourself too locked in where you stand right now. If you end up sitting where I sit, things could change dramatically.’ ”

http://www.examiner.com/a-953145~Bush_quietly_advising_Hillary_Clinton__top_Democrats.html

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Rick, Germany — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:17:51 GMT

Oh you silly liberals. Do you really thing Hillarity is going to get a free pass? When the DNC announces that she is in fact the nominee then the GOP is going to attack with all guns and it will cover every scandal that ever came up under her and her husband as governor and as POTUS.
Just wait. It is going to get very ugly for the Clinton machine.
She will prove to be too unelectable.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

MIke RC, Rockwall, Texas — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:19:31 GMT

Seems somewhat premature at this point to claim that any hurdles have been cleared. Whether any of the hurdles have actually been cleared will not really be known until the actual votes are cast and counted (hopefully accurately).

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:20:15 GMT

*** Hillary’s final hurdle?..."electability"
If Hillary isn't electable.....then no Democrat is. She has the experience, she has the star power, and she has the "juice" to win the Presidency.
Why do you think the CANTservatives, and people who pretend to be Democrats attack her so vehemently, and with so much vitriol?
I'll tell you why...because they are scared $#!+less of her, that's why! They know that if she gets the nomination, she'll win hands down.
Obama simply could not, and would not win. Period.
He has neither the experience nor the gravitas.
I am a lifelong Democrat. I never voted for a republiCANT in any general election.
But, I will vote for whoever the republiCANT nominee is, out of protest, if Obama gets the nomination.
The G.O.P. will eat him alive. We've already seen him trip over his own words all throughout this campaign. He's another Michael Dukakis. Remember him?
The Democratic party has to stop nominating WIMPS, and start nominating people with STAR POWER and PIZAZZ.
The alternative to Hillary is 4 more years of republiCANT rule in The White House, and this country simply cannot afford that.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

FOX — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:21:24 GMT

THIS IS FOR BUBBA: FIRSTLY, BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE HILLARY, LEARN TO SPELL, IT IS NOT "PURGERY", ALSO HOW ABOUT THE 90'S! WE WERE ALL MUCH BETTER OFF THEN THAN TODAY...I BET U VOTED FOR MR. BUSH, WHO OF COURSE IS A VERY "HONEST GUY". GET REAL..

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

dem dem — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:21:55 GMT

oh my, look at this background on a certain pal of Lazio and Obama endorser Seabrook. It seems that Bloomberg and Lazio aren’t the only Republicans that he’s big buddies with. He’s also friends with convicted felon and bribe taking ex-state senator Velella (R). I think Team Obama maybe should start vetting their endorsers. But when this is obviously the only Labor endorsement that theyre going to get, phonies can’t be choosers:

Velella Got Ride to Freedom From Guards’ Union Chief
By KEVIN FLYNN and PAUL VON ZIELBAUER

Published: October 7, 2004

Most released inmates have to ride the city bus off Rikers Island, but former Senator Guy J. Velella was driven from the jail last week by the president of the correction officers’ union, who took him to meet his family at a favorite Bronx restaurant.

Norman Seabrook, the president of the Correction Officers Benevolent Association, said he extended the courtesy because Mr. Velella, a Bronx Republican, had been a loyal friend to the union.

Advertisement

But the ride was another instance in which the treatment of Mr. Velella appeared to be at odds with that afforded the average inmate. Ordinarily, prisoners must take a city bus or licensed van service over the bridge to the mainland, because private cars are not allowed on the island.

Last week, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg ordered an investigation into the circumstances under which Mr. Velella received one of the few early releases from prison granted each year by an obscure panel of mayoral appointees. The panel, known as the Local Conditional Release Commission, serves as a local parole board. It released Mr. Velella on Sept. 28, just three months into a yearlong sentence for conspiracy to accept bribes.

Though about 7,000 cases were eligible for review this year by the panel, Mr. Velella and two other men convicted with him were three of only five people who have been released.

Mr. Seabrook said that Mr. Velella, 60, had called him several times from prison, complaining that he could not sleep, and the union president offered to give him a ride home to the Bronx. “That man has carried a lot of pieces of legislation in Albany for us,” Mr. Seabrook said.

He said he drove in the pouring rain to the island, where only people with special passes are allowed, picked up Mr. Velella at the visitors center, where released inmates are left, and then drove him to the Pine Tavern in the Bronx. Mr. Velella’s wife and son were waiting there, Mr. Seabrook said, and they chatted for 10 minutes before Mr. Seabrook left. Mr. Velella said he was looking forward to a shower in his home.

City officials had been quoted in initial news reports as saying that Mr. Velella had departed the prison by bus shortly before 3 p.m. A Correction Department spokesman, Thomas Antenen, said that most released inmates do take the bus but that the agency had not specifically monitored how Mr. Velella left.

“We dropped him at the visitor control center,” he said. “We don’t track his movements after that. And Mr. Seabrook, of course, has access to that as president of the union.”

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

PJ — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:25:09 GMT

So much hate, division, mistrust in our country today. So ready to hate Hillary. I ask myself which candidate would make good, common sense decisions about all the important issues. And she's it.(Ron Paul is great but the republicans won't give him a chance) George Bush is in the pocket of big business.(oil, military/industrial complex) I don't believe Hillary is. Not really. She wants to get elected . You have to play the game. Her heart is still in the right place (unlike GW) and her motivation will be for the most good for the most people. So easy to cynically scoff at that. With regards to election hurdles, I say w/o cynicism that the biggest one may well be ensuring a fair vote count.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

framecop, Raleigh, NC — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:25:55 GMT

I think the media is deceiving the American people by muddying the waters between the Democratic Primaries and the General Election.

It's easy for Clinton to clear hurdles among Democrats, but that stilld doesn't mean a general election electorate would support her, and I'd bet the farm that the media already have internal polling showing that she in fact would kill the Democrats in Congress and be in a tightly contested election, which is what the media cadre wants. A close election provides for "great television," right?

If the Democratic Primaries reflected anything about the General Election then Walter Mondale wouldn't have only won 1 state, and John Kerry would have been more competitive in southern and midwestern states than he was, since he won the TN, VA, and GA primaries.

Hillary may be sailing among Democrats right now, but she would kill them come General Election time.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

jerry/corpus christi texas — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:27:20 GMT

And you libs talk about President Bush and free speech? Bill CLinton is that powerful he can force a magazine to kill a story about them? I keep reminding you libs out there, the Clinton's don't care about anything, they just care about themselves. What a bunch of morons they are. Must have been one heck of a story, let some other magazine who's strong enough to withstand the Clinton stare run with the story.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

annefrank — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:27:29 GMT

In Iowa - John Edwards beats Repubs in matchups!

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportEmail.aspx?g=275a3c34-9cad-41b4-a76e-78799cfa229d

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Bill K — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:28:22 GMT

To respond to 'bubba'...
Since everything you said is either urban legend or outright lie, who should ever listen to you? I remember President Clinton being lambaisted for going after Bin Laden with cruise missiles in the 90's quite well, and the moronic attacks then, now folks like you forget it ever happenend. Wake up!
I, as a person of integrity and conscience, can't wait to vote for Hillary Clinton, she is by far the best for the job.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:28:25 GMT

Good morning America, yes Bush continues to "suck". That is all.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:29:32 GMT

I agree with Z, Bush does continue to "suck".

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:29:43 GMT

karen.....say it, and get used to it.
PRESIDENT HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON
Being a Clinton-Hater doesn't make you a spokesperson for the mainstream.
In fact, just the opposite is true. Clinton-Haters are USUALLY neo-con extremeists.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Nicholas, Minneaps, MN — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:29:52 GMT

"Whether it’s helping rack up congressional endorsements for his wife, preventing labor groups from endorsing other candidates, or even helping to kill negative stories, this is Bill’s real power in this race: leverage."

That is exactly what I said. Without Bill Clinton, her campaign would be at best a Romney, I believe. Sen. H.R. Clinton proponents will say that she is succeeding completely on her own merits. If this were the case, why is she even using Frm. President W.J. Clinton? (it's because they know that isn't a true statement).

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Pat, Huntington, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:33:42 GMT

So Bubba, I guess you're not going to vote for Hillary? It's also apparent you get all your mis-information about Hillary from Fox Noise. You're comment about her and her husband is 100% off base and wrong. I would factually rebut every single mis-statement of yours [everything you said] but it would appear a waste of time given your virtolic diatrob evinces a lack of intelligence on your part or ability to hear opposing viewpoints.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:37:39 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY--
Hi Van. I'd like to introduce you to
bubba (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:58 AM).
As you can read from his post bubba has many misconceptions about the Clinton's in general and Hillary in particular. He seems to hold many urban legends to be truth. I disagree with him on just about everything he believes about the Clinton's. But the fact is, neither you or I are going to convince him otherwise. There are a lot of bubba's out there. The most positive thing about the bubba's is that they are not Bush fans and that given the proper alternative they would vote for a Democrat that they feel is offering the best course of change for this country. This country needs a President with a landslide victory and a mandate to move forward. We can't handle another photo finish election with a congress that is paralysed. We need the bubba's for this. We need a candidate with broad appeal and low negatives.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Dot, Illinois — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:38:05 GMT

Yesterday it was Hilary as the front runner. Today, it is Hilary's final hurdle. So should we just skip our state primaries and have the other candidates pack up and go home? Why do you insist that the nominating process is over? There must be lots of people who like me have not formed a definite conclusion about whom to vote for. I want to hear from all the candidates as often as possible before I make my choice.

So, please let the games continue with impartial commentary.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Denny, Ames — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:40:45 GMT

Any Democrat who believes Clinton is the most electable Democrat lives in a world with little contact with independents and moderate (to liberal on social issues) Republicans. Clinton may be able to win the general election, but she is only more electable than Gravel, or Kucinich. People can argue who is first through fifth, but the idea that Clinton is most electable is a joke!

People who believe she can win over the independents point to her landslide Senate victory, which included carrying several (not all) GOP counties. Again, pointing to this as proof she can win over the center is uninformed. She had no real candidate in her Senate race. Even Rupert Murdoch endorsed her and threw a large fund raiser for her. There was never any doubt she'd win the question was only how large the romp. And yet think about what she did in that race that was never in doubt, she spent more to win by an overwhelming landslide than any other Democratic candidate nation wide. It was obscene. The goal was to win in GOP areas to "prove" she was electable. But the fallacy in that argument is that someone voting for Hillary Clinton for re-election to Senate in NY against a candidate who the RNC, and regular GOP power houses within the state are not even helping, even without Clinton's massive campaign spending is meaningless. And Clinton spending an obscene amount in an effort to increase her margin of victory exposes a very unattractive character fault. It was selfish, and showed a lack of being a team player to hoard her campaign largess when candidates locked in tight races could have used some of her money. Candidates with excess campaign funds (from both parties) routinely donate money to candidates within their party who are in a tight race. Could Darcy Brunner running for congress in Washington, or Harold Ford, or Chris Shays opponent won their races if Clinton had not been so concerned with increasing the level of her landslide? We'll never know, because she didn't care enough about increasing Democratic victories as being able to make the false argument that her win in some GOP areas of NY prove she can win the general.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:42:39 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:04 AM)--
How does she fair in the General election Van? That is all that matters.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

annefrank — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:42:56 GMT

John Edwards wins in Repub matchups -

Missouri - http://surveyusa.com/2008H2HMO0907.htm

Ohio - http://surveyusa.com/2008H2HOH0907.htm

New Mexico - http://surveyusa.com/2008H2HNM0907.htm

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Molly, Iowa City — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:45:28 GMT

Clinton-Haters are USUALLY neo-con extremeists.

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY

Merle, I wish that were true. But in many areas of the country many Democrats don't like Clinton, and a large number of independents (the voters who actually decide the election)hate Clinton. Most of the reasons people hate Clinton aren't valid, but whether hate is justified or irrational, or in between the two doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

John B, Des Moines, IA — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:49:26 GMT

Uh, Bubba, when Bill Clinton rained cruise missiles on the al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan and went on TV to warn us they were the most dangerous terrorist organization out there your GOP buddies denounced him from the floors of Congress as trying to distract attention from Monica Lewininsky. That's what was REALLY important then. Maybe if Republicans had taken a break from the destruction of all things Clinton al Qaeda wouldn't be so important now.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Margaret, NYC — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:51:33 GMT

Helllooo Pat! Seems you're not aware of the Clinton-Murdoch merger - and you certainly won't find anything about it on First Read.
Fox News is making nice with the Clintons now - Murdoch bought Hillary and Fox News attack dogs smear John Edwards so Hillary can appear to remain above the frey.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0707/Defending_Hillary_from_the_left.html

Hillary won't commit to a position on media consolidation - and Murdoch will want something in return for promoting her....

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

jerry/corpus christi texas — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:52:03 GMT

you want to see how Hillary Clinto treats her people in Iowa?

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Top Story Clinton campaign volunteer treated badly, and switches to Obama
By Kathy Miller
I came to Iowa as a die-hard Hillary Clinton supporter/volunteer, who was ready to help elect the first woman president of the United States.

I had extra time to spend in Iowa before a trip to Fargo, so I decided to volunteer for a week before I went to Fargo and for two weeks afterward. Within the first couple of days of arriving, I had seen three field workers cry because of the abuse they took. The volunteers were segregated and treated like second-class citizens. I left after my first week, hoping things would change, but they did not.

I was ignored, even though I asked many people for work to do. So I decided to leave the campaign as a volunteer, knowing that I have been supporting the wrong candidate.

As a former state president of College Democrats and having worked on numerous campaigns, I have never seen people treated so badly. I have officially changed my views: I believe Barack Obama will be the best president of United States. - James Henson,
Oklahoma City, Okla.

SOURCE: Des Moines Register

Better be careful of working for that woman, talk about a woman with a whip and a chair

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Richard, Palatka, FL — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:55:49 GMT

Exactly Bubba! we're lifelong Democrats, worked in both Clinton campaigns - but we don't condone dynasties or adultery.

http://www.alternet.org/stories/62812

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Sierra, SF — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:57:40 GMT

karen, Millburn NJ: 'Hillary’s final hurdle? So far this campaign season, Clinton has cleared -- at least right now -- three important hurdles: 1) the past Clinton baggage; 2) questions about her gender; and 3) her Iraq war vote."
1) wrong
2) wrong
3) wrong again.
Just because it isn't mentined ( yet, and should be again) does not mean the hurdle has been cleared. What nonsense!'

Thank you, karen,!!
You're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT !!
Hillary is still crooked !!
That baggage is still there !
And it shows when she is sued by Peter Paul and Norman Hsu is brought to justice.
She ain't done nothin' and she WON'T be the nominee !!

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY: 'I am a lifelong Democrat. I never voted for a republiCANT in any general election.
But, I will vote for whoever the republiCANT nominee is, out of protest, if Obama gets the nomination.'

Wow !!, J. Merle Stanley, so you WON'T SUPPORT OBAMA if he gets the Democratic nomination ?
You'd rather have Rudy than Obama ??
How about Fred Thompson over Obama ?

'I will vote for whoever the republiCANT nominee is, out of protest, if Obama gets the nomination'

If Clinton supporters refuse to support Obama, when he gets the nomination, Obama will win with independent (and even) Republican cross-over votes !!

J Merle, you sound a little desperate !!
Are you SURE you're as confident in Hillary as you make out to be ??
Hillary's negatives are as high as EVER !!

'I will vote for whoever the republiCANT nominee is, out of protest, if Obama gets the nomination'

Merle, I think you're gonna get your chance to 'protest' next November !!
Poor, Merle broken hearted already ;-)

Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandal and divisiveness

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:00:13 GMT

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY--I intend to vote for the ultimate nominee of the Democratic party. I don't think it should be Hillary but only because her high negative numbers mean no victory or low margin victory. She is a highly qualified candidate that would do this country proud but she needs to get elected first. I enjoy your posts a great deal and respect your opinions. But I hope that you will vote for whoever the nominee is. From what I can see it seems that it will be Hillary anyway. The Republican party, President Bush and the MSM have already declared it.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Sierra, SF — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:06:21 GMT

PJ: 'So much hate, division, mistrust in our country today. So ready to hate Hillary...'

Why do you thin that is, PJ ?
Why does Hillary inspire 'hate'
Is she divisive ?

'...I ask myself which candidate would make good, common sense decisions about all the important issues. And she's it....'

Really, PJ ?
Hillary voted for the Iraq war !!
Was that a good common sense decision, PJ ?
Hillary supported the Iraq War !
Was that an important issue, the Iraq War ?
Hillary supported the Iraq War !!
That was the MOST IMPORTANT deciscion in her lackluster political career......
SHE BLEW IT !!

How about accepting dirty money from Norman Hsu ?
Was that a good decision ?

'...George Bush is in the pocket of big business.(oil, military/industrial complex) I don't believe Hillary is....'

Guess, again !!
See: NAFTA, WTO, outsourcing, offshoring jobs......

Back to the drawing board, PJ !!
Better luck next time !!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Crystal — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:08:21 GMT

Ummh I am sorry she got over what hurdles?

Clinton Donor Scandal Widens
By Hill Truth

Hillary Clinton's donor scandal woes have widened to include links to Chinese mobs, scams involving the ex-first lady as a front, and required donations to her campaign. A Laguna Beach investment firm filed a lawsuit against Democratic fundraiser Norman Hsu, claiming he defrauded investors out of at least $23 million and required them to donate to Hillary Clinton.

According to the lawsuit filed by Briar Wood Investments, Hsu persuaded the company's operator to do business with him by taking him to Democratic Party events where New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton praised Hsu.

As a condition of doing business with Hsu, he insisted that investors make contributions to certain Democratic candidates, including $30,000 worth of checks to Clinton's campaign on a single day.

The Clintons have been linked before to donors who used them as an access point to acquire more money, power and political favors. For example, there is the story of Roger Tamraz, a Lebanese oil financier, who was wanted by Interpol for embezzling nearly $80 million dollars from a Middle Eastern bank.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

PJ — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:09:14 GMT

The "jerri's" amongst us are terrified of Hillary, desperate to spread as much smear & fear as possible. It won't work this time, she's above it. We're above it. Get ready for a new improved America. Bye bye neo nuts.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

MK,MO — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:14:22 GMT

you paid operative hillary backers try to cover up the fact that edwards is the only electable dem, always has been, and outside your beltway circle most people have not lost sight of this all too important fact, so keep your regurgitated drivel clogging up this blog, it has, and will change nothing, hillary can not win the general election

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Robert Catalano, Salem, OR — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:18:12 GMT

Hillary needs Bill to carry her baggage for her. I'm surprised he can still walk after all of that heavy lifting.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

John B, Des Moines, IA — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:21:20 GMT

jerry, you've printed a letter to the editor from August and labeled it "top story". If a campaign volunteer was treated badly who did it, and how did the campaign respond to this allegation? Why do you think Mr. Henson was personally abused by HRC? If true then the organization certainly needs to deal with it, but you give us nothing to judge if it is true, why it happened, who to blame, or if the campaign is aware of any problems. In other words you give us nothing.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

H P Boston — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:23:55 GMT

SENATOR Clinton our next PRESIDENT.

WOMEN are the MAJORITY:

65% of women vote.
62% of men vote.

82.5 MILLION MOTHERS (mothers hate war)

152 MILLION WOMEN
148 million men

YES we have a new PRESIDENT coming to a Country near you!!
The repukes have no one to claim as the second coming of CHRIST this time, we got the DEVIL and our Country is a disaster as is IRAQ. IMPEACH!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:25:01 GMT

....."Merle, I wish that were true. But in many areas of the country many Democrats don't like Clinton, and a large number of independents (the voters who actually decide the election)hate Clinton. Most of the reasons people hate Clinton aren't valid, but whether hate is justified or irrational, or in between the two doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Molly, Iowa City (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:45 AM)....."

You're wrong Molly.
People who pretend to be Democrats say they don't like Hillary.
They say it because they know she'll win it all if she gets the nomination.
They don't want that to happen.
They want The Democratic Party to put up another patsie, like Obama, instead.
I'm telling you here and now....if Hillary gets the nomonation, she'll win the Presidency.
Obama would lose, and he'd lose BIG.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

HMT-MI — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:25:38 GMT

Have not been on this site for several days ---but nothing is new and I have not missed anything.It is still the same old same old---republicans scaring the democrats against Hillary---the same talking points coming from Bush and Rove. being fed to the scairdy cat party(the Dems)Reminds me of Saddam and the WMD.The right has gone after all the Dems and will smear whoever wins the primaries.It gets quite hard to be in a party of wimps that are so frightened of lies and smears.This past week Mi has been swarmed with the republican candidates----ooooooh this is so scary

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Rick, WS, NC — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:27:00 GMT

Interesting...at least the dems have some candidates with different views, color and sex...the reps have a bunch of white, tight and way to the right bush wannabes to yap about...lmao

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

F StLouis — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:27:27 GMT

Bubba my ass, its Jerry again folks, same lies and viciousness against the Clintons. And his big fat lying ass finds a purpoted story about how mean Hillary is to her voluteers. What a big lier you are Jerry. Just like your idol W.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Grace, Ny — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:28:18 GMT

Remember the much praised interviews on Sunday by the MSM of Hillary: One analsysis says that may explain all of the dodging she was doing...taking lead from BUSH...what was that again ...Bush/Cheny lite

Examiner Exclusive: Bush quietly advising Hillary Clinton, top Democrats
Washington, D.C. (Map, News) -

President Bush is quietly providing back-channel advice to Hillary Rodham Clinton, urging her to modulate her rhetoric so she can effectively prosecute the war in Iraq if elected president.

It would seem that Clinton may have heeded that advice, and at least holds a similar view on Iraq:

It's too soon to say precisely what she would do in office because there is too much time between then and now.
Asked Sunday on ABC's "This Week" if she would pledge to bring troops home from Iraq, by the end of her first term in office, Clinton sidestepped.
"You know, I'm not going to get into hypotheticals and make pledges, because I don't know what I'm going to inherit. ... I don't know and neither do any of us know what will be the situation in the region," Clinton said.

More of the same with hillary is what you will get.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297938,00.html

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

no name — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:37:20 GMT

Exactly how does being an ex First Lady and a two term senator make her the best candidate for president?

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

GR, Seattle — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:42:07 GMT

There a current hurdle that hasn't been covered yet in the media but will be if she gets the nomination.

Clintons left the White House in debt and have amassed a $40+ million fortune since 2000. Bill goes around giving speeches ($150,000 - $400,000 each) to lobby and industry groups like the Mortgage Bankers Asso & Nat'l Asso of Realtors... Hillary in the senate then pushes bill that benefit these industries (such as the one that prevents banks from competing in real estate transactions.) Sounds like something a Republican would do, I never dreamed a Democratic would do this. Hillary truely is Bush/Cheney lite.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:43:44 GMT

jerry is worried about how Democratic volunteers get treated. (Ha Ha)
That's laughable.
If you think the Clinton's are bad, jerry, wait till you get a load of the Giulliani's.
"Gigolo Rudy G" only cares about one thing.....POWER.
His wife is also a power-hungry tart, who just wants her puss on the front page of the papers, and nothing else.
He was married when he started boinking her, and she knew it.
Hell, even Giulliani's own kids know their father is a scumbag...and they've said as much.
You republiCANTS talk a lot of "smack" about family values.
But, you never display them. You are all hypcrites and liars. We've seen that consistantly for the last 6 years.
Thankfully, "Rappin' Rudy 'G' The Gigolo of The G.O.P." will never be President. We don't need his antics in the White House.
Besides that, nobody's gonna' elect a President who lisps.
Sorry jerry, nice try, but no cigar.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Susan, Miami — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:51:32 GMT

Oh my God we have the three faces of eve going on here ; with jerrys other personalities, Sierra( a man who seems to be terrified of woman but uses a womans name and is terribly confused about his political affiliation as well), and now Crystal (a pretend compassionate republican female trying to make us change our minds about voting for "evil" Hillary)and of course bubba, who has Clintons nick name and is trying to make us believe hes a democrat, when he is really Jerry, the neocon. Wow! Jerry, get thee to a psych hospital... or would a nunnery be better? Whew, the repubs are becoming unglued. Hillary must be doing waayyy better than we think.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Students at UNF — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:53:59 GMT

Go Hill! All these people are angry because they know you're gonna win. Hillary Rodham Clilnton sounds great to us!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

JeanneGA — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:59:37 GMT

Like you have any credibility at all Jerry? NONE.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

felix — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:00:26 GMT

Hillary isn't liberal but the independents and moderates at the center hate her so much they completely miss that she is the most centrist of the candidates. She can only hurt congressional candidates in states like Colorado where the indies and moderates, formerly reliable votes for Republican candidates who recently have come over to vote Dems into power at every level, will NOT vote for her.

If this is going to be a change election, Hillary is the Dem candidate farthest from representing change, not counting the novelty of her being a woman. If the Dems run Hillary and lose the White House THIS time they'll be finished as a force for the foreseeable future.

With new data coming in all the time all over the world on signs that global warming is causing serious change even more quickly than formerly predicted the choice for leader of the free world ought to be clear: Al Gore.

A Republican President could well end the chance we still have to take effective action on a world-wide scale. We desperately need a Democratic President open to leading the world in a massive effort to address this threat and no one can provide that leadership better than Al Gore.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Ann Philadelphia, PA — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:06:43 GMT

I'm not entirely sure that Obama is more electable than Hilary.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

CitizenJ — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:07:28 GMT

All the close House and Senate races where a Democrat is trying to hold their seat in a red or purple district are going to be in trouble if Clinton wins the nomination. Why? If Clinton wins the nomination, that will bring out lots more Republicans who hate her. That could jeopardize the seat of the Democratic representative on the ballot. Therefore, it is quite likely that if Clinton wins the nomination, the Demcrats won't gain enough seats in Congress to pass divisive legislation on the war, healthcare, etc.

I'm not voting for Clinton (in the primary). It's not because I don't like her (which I don't). It's because if she wins the nomination, and the general election (which is in question), she would not be as able to resolve the divide in Congress, which is what we desperately need.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Jane Masters — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:11:25 GMT

Hillary will be the nominee for the Democrats. Always has been. I too though will sit out the election with her at the top of the ticket. Hillary, just as her husband turned out to be, is not concerned about Democratic policies and values, but is concerned about her own power. I don't want another 8 years of feeding someones ego.

ABH - Anybody But Hillary.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

PJ — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:13:27 GMT

Sierra: Thanks for paying so much attention to my comments. What we have in common is we both want a better America. (I HOPE we agree on that) All the points you raise are of course arguments that I've heard and considered. I could go on & on answering each, I won't take up the bandwidth with arguments we've all heard.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

CitizenJ — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:15:16 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

sonya, atlanta, ga — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:15:31 GMT

HRC will not ever get my vote and my family have been democrats for generations. Never! Everybody get ready to say, President Rudy.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

dcannon, dwcatur, Georgia — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:15:47 GMT

I pray to God everyday that Hillary wins. Not only because she and Bill will make a great team in the White House, she is extremely smart, loves America and know how to compromise to get bills to pass. It is never her way or the highway. She works with people to get things done. The other reason I want to see Hilary win is so all you nasty people who will not give Hilary a chance or even listen to what she has to say suffers tremendiously when she wins. I want to see and feel your pain because you deserve it

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

sonya, atlanta, ga — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:19:58 GMT

Obama is leading at least seven points head of all the top tier republicans. HRC is tied with Rudy, Thompson, Rommeny and even McCain. Independents won't vote for HRC, you can't bet your bottom dollar on that. The media and RNC are hoping for a HRC nomination. Wonder why they are taking the experience question so lightly with her. They want to smash her in the general and all the clinton's bad deeds will come out. It will be worse than bimbo eruption. Republicans know they only have a fighting chance against HRC. Dems have never been good at picking canidates and aren't good at fighting the Republicans in congress.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

dcannon, dwcatur, Georgia — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:20:28 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

dcannon, dwcatur, Georgia — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:20:29 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Sierra, SF — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:25:13 GMT

J Merle Stanley:
'...I am a lifelong Democrat. I never voted for a republiCANT in any general election.
But, I will vote for whoever the republiCANT nominee is, out of protest, if Obama gets the nomina...'

So Merle, how would you feel about Obama or Edwards supporters making protest votes if Hillary gets the nomination ??

Especially if Ron Paul makes a third party run ?

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Sierra, SF — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:26:23 GMT

Hilary's 'final hurdle' is staying out of jail during the election season !!

;-)>

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

charly — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:30:20 GMT

"Mothers hate war" - yeah, until someone or something threatens their children...

"Dems/liberals prefer negotiation / diplomacy over violence", yeah - until someone / something threatens their safety or livlihood...

"Dems / Liberals are anti-gun" - Yeah, until someone or something threatens their families or possessions - Remember columnist John Anderson? Vehemently anti-Gun, wrote numerous columns in favor of anti-Gun legislation, Then was arrested for defending his DC home against a late night break-in with... an illegal handgun!

All you guys are the true hypocrites. Your problem is you want so much for the world to be the way you think it ought to be, that you are incapable of admitting to yourselves that it's not, until you are yourselves threatened.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Jamie, Elmwood Park, IL — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:30:34 GMT

Unfortunately, there are many "bubbas" "jerrys" and "merles" out there who will refuse to vote for a woman or a black man. Being from Illinois, I am an Obama supporter, and it is irritating to see the lies being told about him. He is extremely intelligent, has experience in the Illinolis House, etc. However, if Hillary is the nominee, I will definitely vote for her over the Republican candidate as I don't feel this country can survive four years with another Republican administration. If you look at the top 5 Democratic candidates, they are all intelligent, have good experience and family values. Who among the top 5 Republican candidates has the same?

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:31:59 GMT

sierra......
You say that I'M desperate....yet YOU are the one who's been ranting and raving on this board for the last six months about how much you hate Hillary.
I'd say just the opposite is true....YOU are the desperate one. You always end your dietribes with the same validiction....."Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandal and divisiveness." (How in the hell a First Lady is "divisive" is beyond me. Oh well, maybe you don't know what the word means.)
You used to say "Hillary Clinton, 15 years of scandal and political polarization" until someone challenged you to define the word "polarization" and you couldn't do it.
Oh, and YES sierra, I would vote for ANY republiCANT over Obama if he were to get the nomination.
So will the "Reagan Democrats." Independents won't make up for the loss of votes within our own party. Besides, independents are always encouraged to vote against Democratic candidates anyway.....so their votes are virtually meaningless. Obama isn't going to change that. He would cost us an election we can't afford to lose.
Obama WOULD lose, and he'd lose BIG.
Hardcore Republicans aren't going to vote for him, and neither are southern and southwestern independents. He won't get the evangelical vote either. They're already picking on his middle name. (Hussein...as in Saddam Hussein). It may not be fair, it may not be right.
But, they are going to continue doing it. That along with his ties to Antoin "Tony" Rezko, who faces extortion and fraud charges related to an Illinois public pension fund would/will "polarize" the campaign.
We don't need that.
Sorry sierra, but yelling, and yammering isn't going to win Obama the nomination.
...and like I said before. We can't trust this election to someone as "green" as Obama is. We need someone who can win....and that is Hillary.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

DB Milwaukee WI — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:37:32 GMT

Hillary Clinton does not have the ability to clear any hurdle. She does not have any ankles

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Susan,Miami — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:38:19 GMT

Right on J Merle, you are correct. Sierra and Sonja are not true democrats. Never have been, never will be.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

janey KS — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:40:06 GMT

I am a life long republican and have enough sense to be voting democrat for the 1st time in my life. Bush has me embarrassed to tears. ANY democrat.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Charly — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:41:20 GMT

Call me a "bubba" and make disparaging comments all you want, but I will never voyte for anyone who seems to want to live more in the world they wish existed than in the real world. In the real world, vilence DOES solve things, and Wars ARE effective means of exercising national power and accomplishing national objectives.

In the real world, although the concept of pre-emptive war is by no means a clear moral imperative, when nation states possess, or may possess, WMD, and threaten to use them or distribute them to agencies of religious terrorism, pre-emptive war CANNOT be considered a clear moral wrong either.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Caroleann, Villa Park Illinois — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:43:57 GMT

Whoa, such hateful language against hillary, a woman most people don't know well. Not very Christian, not very nice. She will do just fine as president, Thank you.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Ned, New Orleans — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:43:59 GMT

{{ Bubba my ass, its Jerry again folks, same lies and viciousness against the Clintons. And his big fat lying ass finds a purpoted story about how mean Hillary is to her voluteers. What a big lier you are Jerry. Just like your idol }}

Nomination for post of the month. It has everything. No context, personal attacks, cussing, spelling errors. Post of the month.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

MK,MO — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:46:08 GMT

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY / I could vote for obama, but I couldn't vote for hillary. anyone that thinks it is not going to require the independents to win the general election is not thinking clearly. obama or edwards can draw the independent and fence sitting republican vote, hillary can not, that's why she can't win the election and also why the republicans love her so, sorry merle but clinton can't get the job done

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:49:11 GMT

sierra siad....."So Merle, how would you feel about Obama or Edwards supporters making protest votes if Hillary gets the nomination ??

Especially if Ron Paul makes a third party run ? ....."

Paul would probably take as many republiCANT votes as he would Democratic votes.
However, that statement by you conclusively proves what I have suspected for some time.
You aren't a Liberal or a Democrat at all. You're another whacko who wants the Dem's to nominate a weak candidate so some third party puke can siphon off votes and help a republiCANT get elected again.
Sorry sierra, you have been OUTED!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

C. Rochester Soap Lake Wash. — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:57:22 GMT

I agree with P.J. They are afraid of Hillary! She is going to win votes and become our next American President.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

csh, IL — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:57:47 GMT

Hillary is certainly electable. After the last six years of utter incompetence (Iraq, Katrina, etc.), competence is going to be the main attribute voters are looking for. And nobody is more competent than Hillary.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

juan,ft lauderdale,fl — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:01:56 GMT

H P-Also add that the Shrub is also going to veto hlthcare coverage for kids which has universal appeal to WORKING MOTHERS. Enough said! The Neo-cons better get used to madam President. Love it!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

CitizenJ — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:03:16 GMT

J. Merle,

We don't need Obama's "ties" to someone who is charged with a crime (not convicted), but we are supposed to tolerate Clinton's "ties" to a CONVICTED felon who raised almost $1M for her (that we know of)?

Also, is your prediction that Obama would "lose BIG" based on any facts, or just your opinion?

You contend that "Hardcore Republicans aren't going to vote for him, and neither are southern and southwestern independents. He won't get the evangelical vote either."

Clinton is no more likely to gain any of these votes than Obama. In fact, Clinton will get neither the hardcore Republican vote nor the moderate Republican vote.

If Clinton is nominated, she will cost the Democrats the 60 votes they MUST HAVE in Senate in order to pass divisive legislation for the war, healthcare, etc. Then it won't matter that she is president.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Crystal — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:06:49 GMT

Susan, awhhh what a keen observation!! But sorry to disappoint you, I am a Democrat sweetie!! My whole thing is you have to read and be knowledgeable about your candidates. It doesn't matter to me if people praise Hillary, that is their choice but I think it just shows a real lack of knowledge. It is fine to make statements in her defense but you have to acknowledge her wronddoings as well. And to me if you read her views and stance on issues and compare them to Obama or Edwards, it is no way you would support her.
I never hear her supporters saying, I am voting for her b/c of what she believes in education and citing her stance, or war and citing her stance, just blanket statements about experience. The Bush administration had experience and look what that got us. And what are you exactly counting as her experience? Being first-lady? Are you serious? I just feel like many of her supporters are just her supporters fall into one of two categories: 1) they want to see the first female president OR 2) they loved Bill Clinton and want to see him back in the white house. But sorry those reasons aren't good enough for me!
The next election is crucial my children and grandchildren will be affected by the decisions that this president makes. I had to do my research and clearly, Senator Clinton has been plagued by corruption and scandals and her views and stances on many issues that affect minority people are deplorable. Sorry but when I post I just state facts, you can agree or disagree but the facts are there, at the end of the day it is your decision but we all will have to live with the consequences!!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Terry Waters Sunapee NH — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:11:13 GMT

Why doesn't Barack Obama use his full name?
Does anyone know what it is?

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

REA.MTN. VIEW.CA — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:11:49 GMT

TO ME THERE IS NO HRUDLE- BEST BEST LADY HILARY CLINTON FOR PRES- THOSE PEOPLE SO CONTRARY THAT WHY THIER AMERICA CRUMBLED BEC. OF THIER BAD ATTITTUDE AND SO BELEIGERENT AND CONTRARY.MOSTLY NO COMMON SENS WHICH IS-WHICH ONE THE EBSTC ANDDIATE FOR PRES.08-
THEY CANT FACE TTHE TRUTH.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

vanreuter, NY NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:22:55 GMT

We need the bubba's for this. We need a candidate with broad appeal and low negatives.

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:37 AM)

Look Gary, you are obviously an anyone but Clinton guy, and spouting a couple of urban myths yourself.

Here are the current fav/unfav #'s for the candidates

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/favorables/election_2008_democratic_candidates_running_in_2008_presidential_election

Please note that Clinton's favorables are comparable to Obama and Edwards. Their negatives are lower, but so is their recognition.
Winning by a landslide would be nice, but NO candidate guarantees a landslide in the general election.

Clinton is much more popular in the democratic party than her two top challengers;

"Among Democratic contenders, this week’s polling brought few changes. Hillary Clinton is viewed favorably by 81% of Democrats and unfavorably by 17%. Seventy percent (70%) of Democrats have a favorable opinion of John Edwards while 21% say the opposite. Barack Obama’s numbers are 62% favorable, 30% unfavorable. Democrats see little ideological difference between their leading candidates, but Clinton is viewed as the most electable Democrat. Clinton remains solidly in front of the pack among those seeking the Democratic Presidential nomination."

Winning the general election is all that is necessary to win and the last guy claimed a mandate when he didn't have one. Logicly speaking for a democratic candidate, it would be important for that candidate to get most of the DEMOCRATS to vote for them. You can disagree with the numbers, but they favor Clinton in a big way. It's hard to make a case for republicans and independents flocking to a candidate who is at 30% unfavorable within their own party. or to knock one who is seen favorably by over EIGHTY percent of the same.
Read David Brooks' article; Hillary will get the moderate vote in the general because she IS a moderate, centrist, democrat. It is illustrated here by the fact that the extreme left says that she's just like Bush (Which is ridiculous) while the extreme right says that she's a socialist.
The argument that her candidacy represents, "more of the same", when electing the first woman in our history is well, history making, is also bogus and repeated here ad infinitum.

There will NOT be a candidate with low negatives, democrat or republican. Look at the numbers and it's obvious that the candidates for both parties will be running someone who has an unfavorable rating in the mid forties. You are only pointing to the unfavorables because they are the only place where the other candidates have even a slight advantage.

You insist that we can't win without the center, yet strongly reject the candidate who represents that demographic, despite all of the evidence to that fact.
There have been a half-dozen articles over the past couple of days attesting to the fact that Clinton appeals to the heart and soul bedrock, "Beer-track", of the party and that Edwards and Obama appeal to the intellectual, or "Wine Track", segment. Which better exemplifies the center?
By your own logic, you should be supporting Clinton, not grasping for reasons not to. She will be a great candidate, really DOES represent change, the most significant change to the office of President in 230 years. If you study her career and record you find a much different person than is depicted by the crazies here, many of whom are not democrats anyway.
Thinly veiled attempts to cast her as unelectable are going to be out there until she is elected, I hope you find the logic that allows you to leave that camp in time for the general election

Van

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Al, KS — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:30:23 GMT

"Hillary's Final Hurdle"

Mark
You guys just say these things to egg us on...right? Just to get us going with a discussion of how bias this is...right? Just so we can point out that she really isn't going anywhere in the polls...right? That she really hasn't cleared those other hurdles...right? That's got to be the reason for these kind of headlines. You really don't believe it...right?

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:32:57 GMT

Hillary can win and repubs cant stand it! Cant wait for another Clinton in the whitehouse!!!!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

JeanneGA — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:34:02 GMT

Its Gods will that Hillary will win and straighten out this country and the world. Praise be to God!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Students at UNF — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:35:37 GMT

Sonja is a BIG LIER!Nice try Sonja.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:36:38 GMT

Good Jane Masters, Dont vote!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

David Jacobson Durham, North Carolina — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:36:44 GMT

In reference to electability, I suspect the issue is mostly how well a candidate is known. Its easy to imagine that little known candidates are missing negatives. But it is more likely that they have not appeared yet. One of Hilary's virtues is that her negatives are already well known and in focus. New ones are not likely to appear. Plus she has already shown good ability to cope with and get beyond them.

There is a good chance that Barack Obama's negatives are also already known. But they will not receive the same focus as Hilary's unless he turns out to be the candidate in the general election. But then he will face concerns about his attachment to the left wing of the Democratic Party, his readiness to run in spite of his inexperience, his tendency towards idealism, and racial prejudice. People thought George McGovern was electable when he was nominated. I doubt Obama would have much more of a chance unless the Republicans perform poorly.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

vanreuter, NY NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:37:21 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:04 AM)--
How does she fair in the General election Van? That is all that matters.

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:42 AM)

Why do you address me as though I own the polls?

Here are the RCP averages of all the available polls.Clinton leads in all the aggragates;

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

Even you should be able to see that your logic is dictated by your conclusion: You don't like Clinton and don't want to see her nominated or elected, so first you say that polls don't matter, them if she's the most popular democrat in the polls, it's the independents who are most important. When she dominates the other candidates in the national numbers and state primaries, it's about how she has high unfavorables or that the only numbers that matter are the general election numbers.

You are playing a shell game and calling it rational thought. You have to compartmentalize your thinking and your assessment of the available information to tailor it to fit your feelings.
It doesn't really matter if John Edwards looks better in the general election polls when he can't get to 20% in his own party. Even if Ron Paul CRUSHED all competition in general election polls, the fact that he can't get 3% support in his own party makes the other statistic moot.

Van

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

vanreuter, NY NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:47:29 GMT

Sorry this is dated, but it is the most recent I could find.

In July Rasmussen conducted a survey asking 800 likely voters if they would definitely vote for or against a particular candidate. The results are as follows:

For Against
Obama 29% 37%
Clinton 28% 46%
Edwards 22% 39%

CitizenJ (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 12:15 PM)

Sorry that you find the ras website so hard to navigate;

Survey of 800 Likely Voters
August 7-11, 2007

Candidate

Def. FOR

Def. AGAINST

Net

Clinton

32%

44%

-12

Giuliani

25%

37%

-12

Thompson

23%

35%

-12

Obama

23%

37%

-14

McCain

18%

33%

-15

Edwards

22%

39%

-17

Romney

16%

40%

-24

As you can see, despite whatever it is that you hoped to prove and justify why your guy is best, the numbers don't (yet again) bear that out.

Clinton -12% is the LOWEST differential among democrats.
Obama is at -14%
Edwards -17%

What was your point?

Van

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Sam W. Portland, OR — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:03:11 GMT

There's a reason Hillary has rhino-hided Wolfson, etc. working for her: they are all, in characteristics, just like the animal referred to.

And, despite what First Read's Chuck, Mark, Domenico, and Julie wrote, Clinton HASN'T cleared any one of the hurdles. What she has cleared is your simplistic-thinking.

Americans need to remain unsatisfied with Clinton's answers. They reveal her practiced, manipulative, subtle, side-stepping habit.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

e roy utah — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:08:30 GMT

i agree with z bush still sucks, the self-righteous,hypocrites republicans are at it once again using any means to attack Hillary and the dems so they can keep control of the whitehouse, and the neo-cons that nerve and audacity to call us morons, they ought to take a look in the mirror. Bill Clinton was the greatest president in our times since JFK.Repubs can't handle the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO HILLARY!!!!!!!!!!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

CitizenJ — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:14:59 GMT

Vanprick,

I apologize for having to take time away from researching the Rasmussen website once in a while so I can work for a living.

My point is Clinton has the highest "definitely not voting for" numbers. That means only 6 percent of those left have to vote against her to defeat her, whereas it is 13% and 11% for Obama and Edwards, respectively.

Sorry you had trouble comprehending that.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Crystal — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:46:45 GMT

I am so tired of people citing polls, it is ridiculous. A) The polls are only among likely voters, certain candidates like Obama have increased support in new voters (who would not get polled). Also, B) the Rasmussen poll that everyone is referring to, it is out of an N of 570 people, hardly enough to base a statistically significant statement on. C) The polls are based on nationwide sample, which really doesn't make sense for the primary election, b/c it is done on a state by state basis.

Point in point, know your facts!!!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:54:09 GMT

CitizenJ....who does Obama beat in any national poll you can name......NOBODY, that's who.
Also, I disagree with about where Hillary's support would come from. She will attract woman and Democrats to the polls who would otherwise not have bothered to vote.
In that sense, she has legitimate shot at turning some southern, and southwestern red states to blue.
Obama is NOT going to energize southern Democrats to vote for him.
In fact, just the opposite is true.
He will energize the hard core religious, socially conservative, RACIST, cracker-ass, extremeist right wing-nuts to come out in droves just to vote against him. I hate saying that because it shouldn't be that way. Especially in THIS country
But, it is for now and we must deal with it.
Nominating Obama will hand the election to the G.O.P. on a silver platter.
Oh, and one last thing.....if you were refering to Norman Hsu....even the FBI acknowledges that no candidate he raised funds for knew of his past.....including, yes that's right....Barrack Obama.
Mrs Clinton gave the money back that was funneled to her through Hsu. All she asked was that the donors themeselves (the ones Hsu contacted) be notified so THEY could make a decision as to whether or not they wanted their money back. I think that's quite fair.
And by the way.....if Jack Ryan hadn't dropped out of the Illinois Senate race amid scandal in 2004, he probably would have beaten Obama. I mean, look at who he ran against after Ryan dropped out...Alan Keyes...give me a break.
Alan Keyes couldn't win an election for dog catcher.
The G.O.P. candidate isn't going to scandalize himself out of the race this time.
I'm fully aware that trying to talk sense to Clinton-Haters is like trying to put a tuxedo on a pig. It just doesn't fit right, the pig gets really mad, and if you are successful, it winds up getting filthy dirty from the pig rolling around in the mud anyway.
We cannot allow the republiCANTS to win this election. Nominating Obama will surely give it away.
(...and I'll say it again. I am as dyed-in-the-wool a Democrat as there is. But I will vote republiCANT in '08' if Obama gets the Democratic nomination....and I will encourage other Democrats to do the same thing.)

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Ras Mussen — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:57:10 GMT

Poll are always right. Just ask President Gore and President Kerry.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:57:37 GMT

Citizenj....Rasmussen is a conservatively slanted source of polling data. Therefore, they are a non-credible source of information for the purposes of this argument.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Trent Dilfer, Seattle WA — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:00:39 GMT

Terry Waters Sunapee NH - Why doesn't Barack Obama use his full name? Does anyone know what it is?

Steve.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:00:48 GMT

Oh and CitizenJ.....referring to Van as "Van Prick" was completely uncalled for.
Nobody called YOU CitizenJERK. (Although, the name probably fits)

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

bluestateken — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:04:10 GMT

I don't know if I would say Hillary's "final" hurdle so early in the campaign. For goodness sake, its way too soon to make those kinds of statements.
But, I will say that one of Hillary's hurdles may be upcoming in the second week of October.
And that would be...
Former Vice President Al Gore.

It would make things interesting, wouldn't you say?
Gore/Obama
Gore/Edwards

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

vanreuter, NY NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:15:49 GMT

I apologize for having to take time away from researching the Rasmussen website once in a while so I can work for a living.
CitizenJ (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:14 PM)

Your point is that facts that are too hard for you to find, or that make you upset, cause you to act out, name call, and generally prove that you are an ass.
I now know what the, "j", stands for.

Van(prick your sensitive little bubble)

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Sunny, Tulsa — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:17:49 GMT

bubba states:
"i can't believe anyone half educated or with any sense of moral obligations to this country could vote for hilary? her husband did nothing but get rid of American jobs with NATO, . . ."
Well, bubba, if you will remember, Congress was made up of Republicans who pushed for NATO, and if you have been paying attention, Bush has expanded NATO to CAFTA and so much more, losing more American jobs than ever before, and he continues to push for more treaties to outsource more American jobs.

and continues to say:
"do nothing about our terrorist attacks during his presidency in Kenya, Tanzania, and at the world trade center (1st attack) and numerous threats by osama and al queda, . . "

I believe there was a terrorist attack during the presidency of Ronald Regan as well. And Clinton did do something about the World Trade Center bombing - those who committed this act of terrorism were caught and brought to justice. President Clinton also had a Republican Congress he had to work with, which was difficult at times. They prevented many of his attempts to go after terrorists. Remember "Wag the Dog" accusations? And please do not forget that there was a briefing given to Condi Rice stating something to the affect that "Ben Laden wants to Destroy America" in August 2001, which also stated that it was possible that airplanes would be used to achieve this goal? It was blown off by the Bush administration.

and then the inetivable:
"get head in the oval office and then commit purgery,. . "
Always the same stupid argument against the Clintons. So tired of this one. NO ONE DIED!! and it was rather personal, which did not need to be made public. But we never talk about the alchol and drug use of George Bush, do we?

then this nonsense:
". . and then the clinton family moving to new york from arkansas and are living for free off of taxpayers money and still charging the secret service a monthly rent the same as their mortgage, . . ."

Are you on something? First the Clintons did not move to New York from Arkansas - the went to Washington DC first. And yes, both President Clinton and Hillary are provided protection by the Secrect Service - as is any former President and First Lady, as is the custom for every president and spouse. Mrs. Reagan and Mrs. Ford still has Secrect Service protection and will until the day they die. Got a problem with that, bubba?

and maybe the stupidest remarks of all

". . .while being accussed of an entire list of suspicious deaths directly linked to the clinton family over the years and yes being accussed of overseaing one of the biggest drug drop locations in mena, arkansas while being governor and working with president george bush sr."

huh??? Was President George HW Bush running drugs out of Arkansas with Bill Clinton? That is a new one to me. And as you state - they were accusations, but never any solid evidence or proof.

then

". . . hillary is even worse. she flip flops on the war, she's very outspoken, helped the smoking ban in new york (because our government now loves teling us adults what to do and how to live our lives), she's for murdering our babies, and doesn't have any respect for our troops. front runner, please God help us."

I am not Hillary fan by a long shot, but what you have spewed here makes you sound like a fool. She should not be outspoken? Why? Because she is a woman? What an idiotic thing to say. She is an extremely intelligent woman, and as a US Senator, has every right to be outspoken on what she believes in.

and finally -
"I'm not a Bush fan at all, but i would really like someone that's at least half honest running our country for at least 4 years. remember people, we are at war and this is a holy war to a lot of muslims overseas and in this country. we need a strong leader, definately not hillary, please. . . . '

You mean honest like we have experienced for the last 6 years? I agree, I do not want any more of that kind of honesty either. Like I said, I am no Hillary fan, but you said some pretty slanderous things about her with absolutely no documentation or proof. You really do sound like a bubba - get an education!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Mark Thieme — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:20:09 GMT

A couple of weeks ago I told you here, the fix was in. It is.

Polls quoted here by pretentious posters mostly obfuscate the greater reality of campaigning, but those who dig tiddly-winks--go for it!

Though I work for a rival, I have no doubt she (and Bill) will be a great president.

Game over.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:20:10 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY--Stop telling me what I think. I post what I think and it requires no analysis or interpretation. I have no hidden meanings or agendas and I have stated my respect for Mrs. Clinton and have full confidence in her ability to govern. I will vote for the nominee of the party and until then I will express my opinion that we should choose the Candidate with the broadest appeal and the biggest coat tails.
Democrats on both sides who threaten to vote for the other party if their candidate is not the nominee need to stop and think what they are saying. Democrats on both sides who call into question other democrats...loyalty?... to the party need to lighten up a tad. This is intramural kids, no need to break any bones before the big game. Chill

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Allison — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:23:58 GMT

President Hillary Clinton! The US and the WORLD can't wait. I'm from Ohio and Hillary is leading in all polls here. If you can win in Ohio you will be the next President. It's that simple. I know many Indie and Repub pals who are going to vote for Hillary. Virtually, all of the women I know will. Women will carry her into the White House. It's time.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

MK,MO — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:33:48 GMT

vanreutter ny / ny spews forth "There have been a half-dozen articles over the past couple of days attesting to the fact that Clinton appeals to the heart and soul bedrock, "Beer-track", of the party and that Edwards and Obama appeal to the intellectual, or "Wine Track", segment. Which better exemplifies the center?"

van stoops to posting non factual drivel in a desperate attempt to show elitist hillary as a beer drinking good 'ol boy. for shame van

for this disgusting display of the driveling mans drivel the self proclaimed "facts only" van is hereby banished to the top of his self erected trash heap hopefully never to darken the pages of this blog again

van you are one strange cat

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Crystal — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:38:25 GMT

Gore is not going to run and he is not even on speaking terms with the Clintons. Furthermore, as for Bill Clinton's his comparison with the Kennedy's, the Kennedy's even like Obama over Senator clinton.

Ethel Kennedy - widow of Senator Bobby Kennedy
"I think he feels it. He feels it just like Bobby did," Ethel Kennedy said, comparing her late husband's quest for social justice to Obama's. "He has the passion in his heart. He's not selling you. It's just him." Ethel Kennedy invited Obama to deliver the keynote address at a ceremony commemorating the 80th birthday of Robert F. Kennedy. She said she had carefully followed the career of the Illinois senator, whom she referred to as "our next president."

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:40:36 GMT

".....J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY / I could vote for obama, but I couldn't vote for hillary. anyone that thinks it is not going to require the independents to win the general election is not thinking clearly. obama or edwards can draw the independent and fence sitting republican vote, hillary can not, that's why she can't win the election and also why the republicans love her so, sorry merle but clinton can't get the job done
MK,MO (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 12:46 PM)....."

MK...If that's the case, then how come NEITHER of them wins head to head against the front running republican candidates? Hmmmm?
You're saying the same things that were said about HIllary here in NY when she ran for the Senate in 2000.
They said Rick Lazio would eat her alive in a debate.....and she kicked his ass on live TV!
They said she would energize republiCANTS to come out to the polls and vote against her.....they did, and she STILL won!
They said Peter King's Republican machine here in NY would defeat her. The G.O.P. spent MILLIONS on that election, in fact they spent twice as much as she did......and she STILL won
They said she "couldn't get off of 40%" They said she couldn't carry the very conservative north, and NW parts of the state........ and she got 65% of the vote SATATEWIDE.
Obama wouldn't even have won his Senate seat if Jack Ryan hadn't of been scandalized out of the race. Obama wound up facing off with Alan Keys, who couldn't win an election for dog catcher.
I also beg to differ with you regarding independents. Bill Clinton won twice without the independent vote (Perot took 18% in '92' and 6% in '96') and Al Gore got more votes than Bush in 2000 without the "independent" vote as well. (Nader took somewhere between 2% and 3%)
Besides, independents are ALWAYS encouraged to vote against The Democrats....no matter WHO their candidate is. Neither Obama or Edwards is going to change that.
The people who have to be woo'ed in this election are the so-called "Reagan Democrats." They are the people who jumped ship and voted republican in the 1980's, and did it again in 1994. Obama is NOT going to get their vote.
But, Hillary will.
I'm sorry but nominating Obama will polarize this election in a fashion like you've never seen before. The tobacco chewing, bible thumping, racist, so called "evangelical" right wingers down south, and out west WILL come out and vote against the man. He might even lose California with Ahhhhnald out there pushing hard for CANTervative candidates.
Hillary will WIN California ahnds down.
Lastly my "will not vote for Obama" stance, cancels out your "will not vote for Hillary" position.
I'm quite serious about that too. I will vote republiCANT out of protest, if he is the nominee.
I am sick of WEAK, mamby-pamby, "politically correct" Democratic candidates losing Presidential elections everytime out. We don't need aother Michael Duakkis. We need someone with star power, and gravitas.
Hillary IS that candidate!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Tom, SC — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:45:52 GMT

J Merle...Tuxedo on a pig...you don't want to go there!! You are supporting Hillary right? Nah...don't get us started with that one..its too easy LOL

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

vanreuter, NY NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:46:25 GMT

Point in point, know your facts!!!

Crystal (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:46 PM)

I just wanted to see this posted again.

This is a case in point of another young lady who is wildly grasping at straws as she and her hopes for her candidate (let me guess...Obama?)fall into the chasm of defeat.

This week TV networks will cancel shows that they have invested millions of dollars in, after ONE episode, based on the very polling that you are running around like a headless chicken to discredit.

The methodology, sample size and construction of the polls have been validated over time and that this month and next, a hundred million dollars of production and promotion for new shows will go down the drain is testament to that FACT.

When you don't agree with the message...shoot the messenger. When the polls show your choice way behind...discredit the polls.

It isn't the polls, per se, miss crystal, it's the consistency and uniformity of the numbers, from poll to poll, from month to month, that make the case here.

You will not agree, I know, not until it's all over and that's okay, we should hold on to our dreams as long as we can.

Van

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

MK,MO — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:59:08 GMT

Mark Thieme / do you honestly think clinton can win the general election?

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

CitizenJ — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:02:08 GMT

J. Merle,

I think we can disagree about the electibility of each candidate, but to say that Obama would definitely lose if he is nominated is just not supported by poll numbers from ANY source, not just Rasmussen. He may energize the racist population, which is a shame, but he is also energizing more young voters who maybe wouldn't have voted at all if he weren't running. Both candidates have their advantages and disadvantages.

I do dislike Clinton, but I wouldn't say I'm a Clinton-hater - at least not in the same way as some others are. If she is nominated, then I will vote for her. And if, as you say (and I agree), that we can't let the Republicans win this election, then why will you vote Republican if Obama is nominated? Surely you don't think that he would be worse than any of the Republican candidates.

And, yes, my remark to van was out of line.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

EDWARDS AND OBAMA '08 OR ANYONE BUT HILLARY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:02:40 GMT

Hillary Clinton is a lying self involved person, she is only concerned with getting power for herself. Back when her husband was president she announced to a committee that they shouldn't have to turn over personal papers because and I quote "WE ARE THE PRESIDENT" she has wanted to be in control of the White house since her husband was there, I was all prepared to vote Democratic and if Senators Obama and Edwards get the nomination I can't wait to vote,however, if self serving whatever's good for me I am doing Hillary gets the nomination, Sadly because it goes against everything I believe in to not vote, whoever the Replican Candidate is, is getting my vote that night.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:09:16 GMT

MK,MO--Guess I need to read his posts a little closer, I missed the Beer-track, Wine-Track bloviation.
Did he mention the Single Malt Scotch-Track candidate?
I am as yet undecided but you can't beat a good single malt scotch on a chilly day in early November.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

CitizenJ — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:16:35 GMT

van,

My apologies for the prick remark.

However, it is interesting how you claim to be able to interpret what people really mean when they post something. You are right - what I really meant to say when I said that I was a little too busy was that I was just sitting here not being able to figure out how to click on links and read and hard stuff like that. All of us here are obviously inferior to you, so I think we should just all post our names and nothing else since you decide for yourself what we really meant to say. Please, please, please send all us dissenters to your trash heap so nobody else has to listen to us anymore.

I am more than capable of forming my own opinions, contrary to your obvious belief that we all need a little help from you.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Jamie, Elmwood Park, IL — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:22:45 GMT

Gary Schear - 3:20 post - couldn't agree with you more. I just can't believe that any independent, middle or left leaning person would continue to put this country in jeopardy by returning a republican to the White House. The past 7 years have divided this country, caused the U.S. to lose respect throughout the world and put us into debt that will take decades to payback. Over $7 million A DAY for the Iraq war, to say nothing of the thousands injured and killed. Enough!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

JOHN EDWARDS IN '08 — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:25:04 GMT

Allison,

I too am a woman and would love to see a woman in the White House, however, not one of my friends or female co-workers will vote for Hillary Clinton, yes it may well be time for a woman in the white house..JUST NOT HER... PLEASE PLEASE LETS MAKE JOHN EDWARDS OUR NEXT PRESIDENT, he is the person who can take this country where it needs to go,,,Hillary will just take from this country what she wants that makes her life better, she would be the worst choice, I have to say if she is the nominee, I am voting republican.....

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:25:52 GMT

Thieme!--I thought you were trash heaped. You've got a lot of nerve.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

vanreuter, NY NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:27:40 GMT

I love my fan club. They include republicans, the pompous, the self-righteous, the borderline personalities, and the thin-skinned, self-styled, "insiders", who don't like facts, polls or the people who prefer their opinions fortified with a basis in reality.

Gary-
Why do I bother? You address your TWO posts directly to me, I reply in good faith, and you again use my good nature against me. Where is the discourse? You seem to have none to offer. I apologize for my mistake.
Fool me twice...

Mark Theime- Again, which campaign do you work for? If you won't say, I don't believe you. Your sophomoric attempts to insult me personally don't exactly attest to the kind of personality that would be valued in a political campaign. Your insights here haven't been the least bit prescient or indicative of possession of any knowledge not available to anyone. I still am not sure what I did to piss you off so much, and now I don't care.

MKMO- your posts speak for themselves.

I posted a, "cheat sheet", with links to websites like the FEC (Federal Elections Commission) Real Clear Politics, and others, that I used myself, to help others check the facts in the stories and comments here, and the fan club compared my cheat sheet to the postings of sierra and jerry. That's just crazy.

Many of those who I would consider to be on the same side of the political divide are among my biggest, "fans" (see above) and they make me wonder what is going on in their heads, and why the attempts to add fact-checking to the opinions posted here would be the cause of so much rancor. I know that some of it has do with Clinton-hatred transference, but there has to be more to it.

So to the, "fans"; I'm sure you have your reasons to want to keep verifiable, accurate, factual sources out of easy reach, I just can't figure out what they are.

I know you hate all the polls that show Clinton steamrolling to the nomination, but they are the only polls there are. I know you hate it when you cherry-pick a single or out-dated poll and I provide the information that sinks it, but again, the facts are the facts.
I love the daily, "what about THIS poll, van", posts, but the lack of a cogent reply after I have answered you is disappointing.

I'm going to start posting the ammo-pack again (Let me save some fans the trouble...Who CARES!!!!) starting tomorrow and will try to add to it as time goes forward.

Van

PS: Thanks for making my "trash heap", post of a month ago, THE MOST REFERENCED POST IN THE HISTORY OF THIS MESSAGE BOARD.
I posted it once, you all keep it alive, including (bizarrely) many who must know that they were who I had in mind when I conceived the idea.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

GROW UP — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:28:57 GMT

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY

I have voted replublican in the past and yes I admit I do regret this decision for my own personal reasons, however, NOT EVERY REPUBLICAN, is a moron, my father was one of the finest smartest men I have ever known, he was a war veteran and a republican.. in this country you have every right to voice your opinion, but just because you think your opinion is rigth doesnt give you the right to insult everyone else with a different opinion and that should go to everyone posting here. We should be able to post our opinions debate them, but why is it necessary to resort to name calling and insults...

please we aren't 7 years old anymore people grow up and have an adult conversation already.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:33:14 GMT

Mark - We should make it a best of 7 series. It would sure beat watching the pennant race without my beloved red birds.

Hm, maybe we should make presidential elections a best of 7 series. Have a debate, and everyone goes and votes. If you win 4, you win it all.

Although I guess that would mean that people would have to actually give up 7 nights of their lives to consider who should be president. Nevermind, it would never work.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

vanreuter, NY NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:52:47 GMT

van stoops to posting non factual drivel in a desperate attempt to show elitist hillary as a beer drinking good 'ol boy. for shame van"

Even though everyone knows what you are...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-beer_wine_bdsep23,1,2460911.story?track=rss

Obama finds 'beer voters' hard to tap

By John McCormick | Tribune staff reporter
September 23, 2007

MAQUOKETA, Iowa - Denise Bren's voice trembled as she stood in a city park near her home to ask Sen. Barack Obama what he would do to help people like her struggling to pay their bills.

"From the cost of gas to the cost of a dozen eggs, the price keeps going up and the wages don't," she said. "I'm in a family of two and can't imagine what it does to a family of four or more."

Skipping any expression of sympathy for Bren's personal plight on a day when he was focused on the Iraq war, Obama (D-Ill.) launched into a detailed, six-point plan outlining the economic policies he would change as president."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20226452/site/newsweek/

Fighting the Arugula Factor
He charms elites. But how does Obama woo a must-have: 'downscale Dems'?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/25/opinion/25brooks.htm?hp

Op-Ed Columnist
The Center Holds

By DAVID BROOKS
Published: September 25, 2007

"As the journalist Ron Brownstein and others have noted, Democratic primary contests follow a general pattern. There are a few candidates who represent the affluent, educated intelligentsia (Eugene McCarthy, Bill Bradley) and they usually end up getting beaten by the candidate of the less educated, lower middle class.

That’s what’s happening again. Obama and Edwards get most of their support from the educated, affluent liberals. According to Gallup polls, Obama garners 33 percent support from Democratic college graduates, 28 percent from those with some college and only 19 percent with a high school degree or less. Hillary Clinton’s core support, on the other hand, comes from those with less education and less income — more Harry Truman than Howard Dean."

Imagine that, backing up what you say....

Van

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

mad in Madtown — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:55:19 GMT

"Besides that, nobody's gonna' elect a President who lisps." J. Merle, LMFAO! That's the funniest thing I've read all day!

Edwards/Feingold '08

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Eliah — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:41:19 GMT

We have to resurrect the GQ story... Please read
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/5992.html

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

vanreuter, NY NY — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:47:41 GMT

Look at the internals of the NH pre-debate poll conducted by the University of New Hampshire Survey Center for CNN and WMUR-TV. You know who leads...

Which Candidate Is Most Likeable?
Obama 39
Edwards 27
Clinton 15
Richardson 6

Which Candidate Has Best Chance Of Beating GOP Nominee?
Clinton 54
Obama 13
Edwards 8
Gore 8

More than FOUR TIMES as many see Clinton as the one.

Which Candidate Has Right Experience To Be President?
Clinton 47
Gore 14
Edwards 8
Obama 8

47-8. Wow, that's just too huge a disparity to change.

Which Candidate Is Most Likely To Bring Needed Change?
Clinton 36
Obama 24
Edwards 8
Gore 7

Clinton trounces Obama on HIS issue, 36-24

It isn't inevitable, but it does seem more likely every day.

Van

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

jack Asheville, NC — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:59:55 GMT

I am saying this based on what I have read here. Hillary will not get elected because she is to devisive (sp?)i fyou don't believe me simply go back and read what has been written here. I bet the other candidates don't have these kind of arguments going on about them. What this country really needs right now is a candidate with vision and the ability to really reach the center left and center right. Besides predicting the election right now is like predicting whose going to the World Series before the All-Star Break.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

George — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:00:20 GMT

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https://donate.barackobama.com/match

With a little more than 100 days before the first primary and caucus votes, many previous donors are showing their support.

I know it's desperate, but is it LEGAL to have, "another supporter(?)" match a donation to a political campaign?

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Susan, Miami — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:44:37 GMT

Ah Crystal sweety, glad to hear your not Jerry and not a republican. So vote democratic how about.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

reydnavarro, stockton calif — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:22:18 GMT

Shut your smelly shitling mouth bubba. You're nothing but ignorant uneducated sob. You're probably uneligible to vote becuase of your education, so why bother. Your kind of stupidity puts where we are in Iraq. Maybe it won't bother you because you don't earn enough money to pay taxes.. So shut the hell out!!!!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

HP Boston — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:31:52 GMT

Grow Up.... It is not your fathers Republican party.

ANYMORE!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

independent, fl — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:42:29 GMT

Hello Mr. Stanley...how are you? Regarding your 12:31 post...I agree with you 100%. It's obvious that all of the Hillary bashing is a poor attempt by the republicans (and a lot of Obamamaniacs) to try to discredit their biggest threat...Hillary Rodham Clinton. I'll vote for Obama...when PIGS FLY!!!

Jerry/tex'ass - get a job would ya!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

pb, Mission Viejo, CA — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:43:47 GMT

I love reading the rantings of both sides of the Hillary coin -- and it's two faced at best (no tails, not will Bubba Bill lurking about). The RetroLibs are lost in a fog, the GOP dying for Hillary to be their primary target.

The real losers... our wallets if one party gains absolute control

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Diane Canal Winchester, Ohio — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:47:11 GMT

I plan on voting for HR CLinton next year. I remember how much better life was in those 8 years and can be again!! I have two sons 20 & 17 and do not wish to send them to fight Bush's WAR!!! I think that Clinton knows what it's like to come from a middle class family and to make your way in the world not on Daddy's NAME!!! I want to see jobs, education and health care as top priorties! I don't have stock in the oil companies like George and Dick. I have to work 60 hours a week to make my Bills and my husband works many overtime hours as well. Let's bring Clinton into Pennsylvania Ave and bring back the middle class America!!!!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

debbie white, new haven, wv — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:09:33 GMT

electabiliy--- America is ready for a female president. The men so far have ruined the credibility of our nation in the eyes of the world, depleted our armed services,have not protected our borders, sold our country to foreign countries[they own us], depleted without supervision our futures in social security and sold out our jobs overseas. How far do we allow the good old boys club to continue? Yes sir I will consider [as will other women] that a woman can be President.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Sixpack — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:53:01 GMT

Let's face it people....there is no choice....they are all crooked and self serving. The whole system is corrupt and out of control. The system is geared to continue to exploit the American taxpayer. This is the unfortunate truth. The exercise of voting is futile at best. All we end up doing is trying to pick the lesser of two evils and it ends up business as usual in Washington. The exercise of voting is futile at best.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Pitous — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 01:32:03 GMT

To all you hate mongers out there, when Bill was in the white house you had 8 good years of living well and we were popular all around the world, and we were not in debt like we are now. Of course Hilary is the best candidate in the Democratic field, she has has mor e political knowledge than any of her openents, Barack is s sweet talker with absolutely no political experience and a former MUSLIM.Like George said in Australia get out there Hilary and kick asses. Good Luck you are a winner in my book

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Woody, Texas — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 01:45:48 GMT

Looks like Hillary is set to be elected as President, the rightwingers are really making a lot of noise about something. Personally I'm ready for a leader for a change instead of a hard headed dumba--.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Wed, 26 Sep 2007 02:33:24 GMT

BUSH SUCKS.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Harley Ryan Clarksville, TN — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 03:28:00 GMT

Bubba up at the top amazes me. He is the typical right winger who TRYS to say he isn't a "Shrub" fan and then spends his whole post bashing Hillary. Here in America workers are paying higher gas prices, food prices, electricity prices, etc,etc,etc. We need Workers rights in this country. The middle class has been outsourced. And if you really knew your facts Bill Clinton inherited the NAFTA fiasco. It was already a done deal when he came into power. He couldn't have won a veto fight on it anyway as the "pharisees) controlled the house and senate. When "Shrub" came into office gas was a $1.36 a gallon. Anyone who doesn't think "Shrub" and his republicans are destroying this nation are idiots. (Look up idiot in the dictionary if you can read) geez!

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

Harley Ryan Clarksville, TN — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 03:28:01 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

C Wycoff, Kansas City — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:13:38 GMT

HRC Has not cleared any real baggage. What about her involment in the Vince Foster issue? Whitewateer? Mena Arkansas Drug cartel?. But then these are issue needing answers and we don't want that, do we?

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

End This War — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:32:02 GMT

NO MORE BUSHS/CLINTONS................End This War!!
NO MORE REPUBLICANS/CLINTONS..........End This War!!

OBAMA/EDWARDS '08

NO MORE BUSHS/CLINTONS................End This War!!
NO MORE REPUBLICANS/CLINTONS..........End This War!!

OBAMA/EDWARDS '08

How is Hillary Clinton is a seasoned, experienced leader? She has only been in the senate just a little over one term. THIS DO NOT MAKE YOU EXPERIENCED
She could not get them to pass her so called health care plan. THIS DO NOT MAKE YOU EXPERIENCED. Interesting that George Bush has stated publicly that Hillary will be the Dem nominee. The repukes sees facing Hillary as their only chance of winning the Oval Office in 2008. Her continually changing her mind to fit her audience, it is really get ridiculous.
THIS DO NOT MAKE YOU EXPERIENCED.
She runs as the candidate with the most experience only because she says it is so. THIS DO NOT MAKE YOU EXPERIENCED.
Susan, Miami: 'Hillary is THE only dem candidate who can take on repukes lying and cheating, and still be standing afterwards....' Because Hillary does NOTHING BUT LIE AND CHEAT !!.....Look at Norman Hsu !!.....
Look at Peter Paul!!.......Look at her lies about her Iraq War votes !! I`m confused does this make you EXPERIENCED. '...its the way the repubs play; dirty, lying and cheating to win...' It's the way the clinton's play !!
Hillary has been lying about Obama's positions !!
She criticized him for 'taking nukes off the table'
But she did the SAME THING in a previous statement !
She tries to say that all the Democratic contenders have the 'same voting record' on Iraq! LIAR, LIAR, LIAR!! a vote for Hillary is a vote for Republicans.
THIS DO NOT MAKE YOU EXPERIENCED.
I`m confused, I still don't understand how 8 years of being First Lady counts as "experience"
If you continue to help her get the nomination, then you will only have yourself to blame when another Republican is sworn in 2008.

OBAMA/EDWARSD '08

Hillary Clinton, years of dishonesty, scandals and divisiveness, I guess this would make you an "experience" REPUKE.

OBAMA/EDWARSD '08

WHAT WE NEED IS CHANGE, AND OBAMA IS THE MAN TO DO IT!! HE HAS STOOD BEHIND ALL THAT HE HAS STATED, HE DOES NOT FLIP FLOP JUST TO GET THE SIDES OF THE AUDIENCE.
Barack demonstrates his intelligence and judgment by stating the obvious.
The fact Hillary has absolutely nothing to show in terms of accomplishments, both in the senate and outside of her husbands political career, most women would or should look upon her as someone trading on her husbands name, organization, and fundraising machine. She's an empty suit who traded her dignity for her 'political viability' as Bill once said.
OBAMA HAS DEFIED EXPECTATGIONS AT EVERY TURN AND HAS
ACHIEVED QUITE A BIT ON HIS OWN. HE`S BRAVE TO COME TO THE DECISIONS THAT NOT VOTING IN THE MOVEON.ORG AD, A TACTIC THE RUPKES TRYING TO KEEP THE AMEICAN PEOPLE NOT TO FOCAUS ON WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTATNT, THE WAR IN IRAQ, BUT HRC VOTED.

OBAMA/EDWARSD '08

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:53:34 GMT

....."J. Merle,

I think we can disagree about the electibility of each candidate, but to say that Obama would definitely lose if he is nominated is just not supported by poll numbers from ANY source, not just Rasmussen.".....

Then tell me what poll has Obabam beating ANYBODY head to head?

".....I do dislike Clinton, but I wouldn't say I'm a Clinton-hater ".....

You certainly have all the rhetoric of a Clinton-Hater.

....."And if, as you say (and I agree), that we can't let the Republicans win this election, then why will you vote Republican if Obama is nominated? Surely you don't think that he would be worse than any of the Republican candidates. ".....

There are a number of reasons for my decision to do that, CitizenJ.
First off, I'm tired of my party being shoved around by extreme leftists, and independents who have no intention of voting for a Democratic candidate regardless of who it is. They try to dictate who we nominate, and what our party platform should be. Then they abandon us on election day in the name of "making a strategic vote to show (their) displeasure with the direction of The Democratic Party." (generally speaking that means they think we aren't Liberal enough.)
That kind of moronic thinking got us a Republican congress 12 years ago, it helped Bush get "elected" in 2000 and it led to all the crap we're going through now. The more we reached out to the extreme left, the more they continued to push for third party candidates who did nothing but help republiCANTS get elected at the Federal level.
Moderate-Liberals like myself are being ignored, in favor of extreme whackos who do nothing but help republicants with their support of the Naders and The Cobbs of the world.
This party has lost election after election as a result of that.
The G.O.P. may be wrong in its' policies. But they are correct about party unity, and they stick together when the going gets tough.
I'm sick of watching mamby-pamby loudmouth exteremeists (like sierra, for instance) hold The Democratic Party hostage.
Either get on board or clear the tracks.....lead follow, or get the hell out of the way.
But don't threaten me with your "I can't/won't vote for your mainstream candidate....nominate so-and-so, or else" B.S. anymore.
I reject it, and I'll hand it right back.
It would be better for the so-called independents, and/or the third party freaks who constantly hold the Dem party hostage, to get a good, solid dose of their own medicine.
I want a strong recognizable,MAINSTREAM candidate with STAR POWER, and the "Gravitas" to win! I do not want the candidate who is "politically correct" with, and acceptable to the wishy-washy, whiney-wimpy third party/independents.
The only way I have of protesting the fact that they get more attention than I/we do, is to hold my nose and vote against the candidate they push for. Maybe next time the party will listen to ME.
I'm hoping this is all moot. I'm hoping The Democratic Party does the smart thing and nominates Hillary. The GOP is scared to death of her. If they weren't, they wouldn't have attacked her so fiercly these last 7 years.
SHE is the one with STAR POWER. She is the one who is MAINSTREAM, and she is the one who can and will win in November of next year.
I don't want Obama....because he will lose and I guaranty it. We need a STRONG DEMOCRATIC candidate. Not a candidate you think is going to appeal to independents. 'Cause, guess what?.....They'll con ya' into nominating him, then they'll leave you high and dry on election day, just like they did in 2000, and again in 2004.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

ki houston — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:27:14 GMT

well i see my post yesterday was censored so i will post it again and again until you hillary bought censors post it . It gos as. How scary is it that clinton can show up on all five sunday talk shows from a outside location where she can have anything and any one at her disposal whith little to no follow up questions on issues of scandel and get away with giggeling as a sufficiant answer for them all. On top off that they turn around and kill a story about a one of her staff going to Obama because of how bad they treat staff at the clinton camp.Then the msm pundits admit that the msm is in her pocket and they pass it off as just a good campain . What has happen to this country ,what has happen to free speach but most off all what has happen to our media . How can anyone contest that this is propaganda at its rawest form .People please wake up this is the same way they got us in to the war in Iraq. Did any of you hear anything about Obamas speach before the war in the msm. If you really love this country you must protest.I dont care who you like for presedent this is not how our country is suppose to be .Propaganda is not how our founders intended for our elections to be decided our any other issue in this country . And you people expect educated people to believe the polls the MSM spit out whenever clinton run in to a problem like killing a news story. Please people wake up and take your country back for god sake.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

H P Boston — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:59:43 GMT

ki Houston Did you go to school in Texas?

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:12:59 GMT

ki in Houston...
Is is propaganda when the media does NOT report that Norman Hsu donated money to, and arranged other donations for Barack Obama too?
Is it propaganda when Obama says he'll negotiate with people like Ahmedinejad, and then his staffers cry "foul" after he is taken to task on that position by other candidates, and by the media? (...only to have him say it AGAIN last night, by the way!)
The mainstream media, or MSM, as you prefer to call it, has taken every opportunity to portray Mrs. Clinton as divisive, and controversial (...as have people like yourself who make unsubstantiated claims about her, and whine like children because the media doesn't rip into the Clintons every waking moment of any particular day.)
Why, for instance, are you so upset that negative media coverage about Hillary (apparently) got stifled...but, you are not upset with the fact that the Alan Fabian story got little, if any coverage at the same time the media was screaming about Norman Hsu?
Fabian (who was Mitt Romney's National Fundrasing Co-Chairman, AND a major contributor to Rudy Giulliani as well) was arrested and charged with 23 counts of money laundering, bankruptcy fraud, mail fraud, perjury and obstruction of justice on August 9th.
However, we never heard about that. All we got was the story about Norman Hsu instead.
Last time I looked, Hillary wasn't charged with anything! Even the FBI said that the candidates who got money from Hsu, including Obama by the way, knew nothing of his background.
So where's your beef, here?
Hillary was portrayed as a horrible person for having taken "tainted" money (which, incidentally, she offered to give back), while Romney, and Giulliani went unscathed for their association with a guy under federal indictment for money related matters.
I'm sorry. But, I just don't see your "complaint" as anything more than rhetorical talking points that are designed to make us hate Hillary, and are supposed to make us love Obama.
I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned you fell way short of the mark of convincing anyone that the media supports Hillary. There just aren't any facts to support that theory.
Simply stating that you don't like Hillary, and that you support Obama would have been a far less disengenuous argument on your part.

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

dwhite — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:36:03 GMT

You guys do not update do you. Sept. 25th has been on way to long. I know you have recieved more comments because I have sent one and it along with others are not displayed. What is the problem?

First thoughts: Hillary's final hurdle?

TS, Ontario, Ca 91764 — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 03:51:32 GMT

Hillary and Bill should be in jail for life for all the lies, all the illegal activities, illegal fund raisings (the so called China connection) again. These people should never be able to run for any Goverment office again.