House takes on MoveOn

Pat, huntington, ny — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:34:46 GMT

I'm just astonished that we can't get health care reform, meaningful environmental legislation, and stronger homeland security bills passed, but this nonsense get's a vote? Again, this all a waste of time, thanks to Republicans who gave us the Impeach Clinton distraction from the real issues troubling this country.

House takes on MoveOn

Shadow, Hamden, CT — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:39:36 GMT

What utter stupidity. As an independent, I certainly didn't think the ad was the best method for moveon to use, but this is a waste of Congress's time; personally, I would just abstain from voting to protest the political circus, just as all these Democrats should be doing. Those who actually vote to condemn moveon really deserve to be primaried by other Democrats for wasting taxpayer money on chasing GOP frames instead of doing the people's business; it's insulting and counterproductive on so many levels, far more than the moveon ad itself ever was.

House takes on MoveOn

Blue state baby — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:40:03 GMT

Another hit on our democracy. Freedom of speech. I guess because bush thought it was terrible the congress and senate have to go along. I can't wait until the bush/cheney era is behind us.

House takes on MoveOn

William in Houston — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:44:11 GMT

Why didn'the Republican House condemn the Swiftboater's attacks on Senator Kerry...I see: "what's good for tha gander, is not necessarily good for the goose" so saith the Pubicans

House takes on MoveOn

Morris Veach, Houston TX — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:46:01 GMT

Another non-binding vote you say? What is the House up to, a few dozen non-binding resolutions for the year? Good to see Nancy is making good progress on the Democratic agenda.

House takes on MoveOn

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:48:11 GMT

Easier to condemn free speech than do your job I guess. Quasi Democrats...LOL...good one!

Work hard Congress!
September to Date
Total Killed in Action: 62
59 US
2 UK
1 Other

Total Civilian Killed: Don't know, God is still sorting them out.

House takes on MoveOn

Nicholas, Minneaps, MN — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:49:12 GMT

You know why this bill does so will in Congress: because Demos are not for complete freedom of speech. They are against hate speech (which I am for, I guess) and this is certainly consistent with that position. Hate speech is repulsive, rarely leads to improving any situation directly but it is a part of what makes this nation, errr, great. Who is government to tell me what I can and cannot say?

Well, that and their lack of spine when it comes to this stupid war--see red/blue state demos divide. STRENGTHEN our national security, Bring the Troops Home! It's not only support our troops, so I'm offering another rally cry.

I can't believe the repubs are really that affected by an advertisement. Grow up already. It was a fair article, your diversion from the facts of the war is not fair. And the demos were too stupid to fall for it.

House takes on MoveOn

NSMSNBC — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:01:05 GMT

It's also nice to see that the Repubs have gotten over their disapproval of non-binding legislation.

Cuz for the war's non-binding measures: that was just a political stunt. Ha!

House takes on MoveOn

WDRussell, East Liverpool, Ohio — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:06:01 GMT

The General has to hide behind the skirts of a bunch of wimpy Congressmen.

If his report was so important, why wasn't he sworn in?

MoveOn to impeachment

House takes on MoveOn

Julie Swaggert, Kiln MS — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:09:21 GMT

[T]his all a waste of time, thanks to Republicans who gave us the Impeach Clinton distraction from the real issues troubling this country.

Nancy is incompetent because of the Republicans? Wonders never cease.

House takes on MoveOn

Larry, Tallahassee — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:18:43 GMT

I'm a retired Sergeant Major and an Independent. This is just another case of Republican political BS. I've been called far worse for far less by better folks than MoveOn and just kept on going. Patraeus is a big boy and he can handle it. The do nothing Congress needs to get on with real business and get us out of a misguided war and get some health care reform going.

House takes on MoveOn

T-Rex — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:23:50 GMT

I thought Pelosi squelched this absurdity - absolutely pitiful and a monumental waste of time. The democrats really are beginning to look as bad as the republicans with all the hubris going around on this issue. It's getting pretty hard to have any respect for the democrats and they may pay a price with their base for all the vascillating on real issues - continual funding of the war and rolling over for Bush comes to mind. They just don't have a plan - as usual.

House takes on MoveOn

Maria Colorado — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:23:59 GMT

It is sad that ALL politicians are the SAME, Dem or Rep., they are in it for themselves. I thought we were in America but Bush has taken care of all that with his judges in and making America look and act like a dictatorship. Thanks policitians, but remember people do not forget.

House takes on MoveOn

SHARON KUHN, KILLINGWORTH, CT — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:25:30 GMT

General Petraeous was appointed only after all other Generals said we should get out of Iraq. He is a Bush puppet and the Moveon.org ad was right on. Why do the democrates take up this issue when there are so many more issues that need to be addressed?

House takes on MoveOn

T-Rex — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:25:33 GMT

Oh wait - Pelosi does have a plan....running for the
Senate in '08.

House takes on MoveOn

Blue state baby — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:26:54 GMT

Non binding legislation! Wasn't bush against this before he was for it?

House takes on MoveOn

chuck jacksonvile fla — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:28:37 GMT

This is really ridiculous. how about the swift boat fiasco. Politics ain't beanbags and we have a free market democracy not censorship where people are supposed to make up their minds.
How about Bush's planted question at the end of a press conference that reeked of politics.

House takes on MoveOn

IMPEACH — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:29:08 GMT

It is what the repukes do best, do nothing and pass GAS! It must be a terrible burden being a repuke.
The most vicious debasing do nothing bunch of killers and warmongers ever.
The repuks in Congress are clones of the WORST President EVER!!
Donate to moveon. Donate I will, again and again.

House takes on MoveOn

IMPEACH — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:30:47 GMT

House takes on MoveOn

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:31:23 GMT

A 2nd appeal;

vanreuter, NY NY--
Hi Van. I'd like to introduce you to
bubba (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:58 AM).
As you can read from his post bubba has many misconceptions about the Clinton's in general and Hillary in particular. He seems to hold many urban legends to be truth. I disagree with him on just about everything he believes about the Clinton's. But the fact is, neither you or I are going to convince him otherwise. There are a lot of bubba's out there. The most positive thing about the bubba's is that they are not Bush fans and that given the proper alternative they would vote for a Democrat that they feel is offering the best course of change for this country. This country needs a President with a landslide victory and a mandate to move forward. We can't handle another photo finish election with a congress that is paralysed. We need the bubba's for this. We need a candidate with broad appeal and low negatives.
Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:37 AM)

I replied

We need the bubba's for this. We need a candidate with broad appeal and low negatives.

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:37 AM)

Look Gary, you are obviously an anyone but Clinton guy, and spouting a couple of urban myths yourself.

Here are the current fav/unfav #'s for the candidates

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/favorables/election_2008_democratic_candidates_running_in_2008_presidential_election

Please note that Clinton's favorables are comparable to Obama and Edwards. Their negatives are lower, but so is their recognition.
Winning by a landslide would be nice, but NO candidate guarantees a landslide in the general election.

Clinton is much more popular in the democratic party than her two top challengers;

"Among Democratic contenders, this week’s polling brought few changes. Hillary Clinton is viewed favorably by 81% of Democrats and unfavorably by 17%. Seventy percent (70%) of Democrats have a favorable opinion of John Edwards while 21% say the opposite. Barack Obama’s numbers are 62% favorable, 30% unfavorable. Democrats see little ideological difference between their leading candidates, but Clinton is viewed as the most electable Democrat. Clinton remains solidly in front of the pack among those seeking the Democratic Presidential nomination."

Winning the general election is all that is necessary to win and the last guy claimed a mandate when he didn't have one. Logically speaking for a democratic candidate, it would be important for that candidate to get most of the DEMOCRATS to vote for them. You can disagree with the numbers, but they favor Clinton in a big way. It's hard to make a case for republicans and independents flocking to a candidate who is at 30% unfavorable within their own party. or to knock one who is seen favorably by over EIGHTY percent of the same.
Read David Brooks' article; Hillary will get the moderate vote in the general because she IS a moderate, centrist, democrat. It is illustrated here by the fact that the extreme left says that she's just like Bush (Which is ridiculous) while the extreme right says that she's a socialist.
The argument that her candidacy represents, "more of the same", when electing the first woman in our history is well, history making, is also bogus and repeated here ad infinitum.

There will NOT be a candidate with low negatives, democrat or republican. Look at the numbers and it's obvious that the candidates for both parties will be running someone who has an unfavorable rating in the mid forties. You are only pointing to the unfavorables because they are the only place where the other candidates have even a slight advantage.

You insist that we can't win without the center, yet strongly reject the candidate who represents that demographic, despite all of the evidence to that fact.
There have been a half-dozen articles over the past couple of days attesting to the fact that Clinton appeals to the heart and soul bedrock, "Beer-track", of the party and that Edwards and Obama appeal to the intellectual, or "Wine Track", segment. Which better exemplifies the center?
By your own logic, you should be supporting Clinton, not grasping for reasons not to. She will be a great candidate, really DOES represent change, the most significant change to the office of President in 230 years. If you study her career and record you find a much different person than is depicted by the crazies here, many of whom are not democrats anyway.
Thinly veiled attempts to cast her as unelectable are going to be out there until she is elected, I hope you find the logic that allows you to leave that camp in time for the general election

Van
vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:04 AM)--
How does she fair in the General election Van? That is all that matters.

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:42 AM)

Why do you address me as though I own the polls?

Here are the RCP averages of all the available polls.Clinton leads in all the aggregates;

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

Even you should be able to see that your logic is dictated by your conclusion: You don't like Clinton and don't want to see her nominated or elected, so first you say that polls don't matter, them if she's the most popular democrat in the polls, it's the independents who are most important. When she dominates the other candidates in the national numbers and state primaries, it's about how she has high unfavorables or that the only numbers that matter are the general election numbers.

You are playing a shell game and calling it rational thought. You have to compartmentalize your thinking and your assessment of the available information to tailor it to fit your feelings.
It doesn't really matter if John Edwards looks better in the general election polls when he can't get to 20% in his own party. Even if Ron Paul CRUSHED all competition in general election polls, the fact that he can't get 3% support in his own party makes the other statistic moot.

Van
vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:37 PM)

Gary replies

vanreuter, NY NY--Stop telling me what I think. I post what I think and it requires no analysis or interpretation. I have no hidden meanings or agendas and I have stated my respect for Mrs. Clinton and have full confidence in her ability to govern. I will vote for the nominee of the party and until then I will express my opinion that we should choose the Candidate with the broadest appeal and the biggest coat tails.
Democrats on both sides who threaten to vote for the other party if their candidate is not the nominee need to stop and think what they are saying. Democrats on both sides who call into question other democrats...loyalty?... to the party need to lighten up a tad. This is intramural kids, no need to break any bones before the big game. Chill
Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Tuesday, September 25, 2007 3:20 PM)

What the? Gary seems like he wants to have a conversation, but he bridles at the opportunity to do so, even when HE is the one initiating the conversation.

Gary, everyone can see that I am saying a lot more than telling you what you think, and the fact that you do not address the greater part of my REPLIES to specific questions you asked ME demands explanation.

I address the issues that you raise and cite sources besides my own opinion to buttress my refutation. You addressed me Gary. READ your own questions, directed at me. Read my answers. I am addressing your points, not attacking you, yet your reply is one of someone who has been insulted. Did I insult you by doing my best to address the points you made in your posts to me?

I don't get your reply to my answers to the 2 posts you specifically addressed to me. You raised salient points, I did my best to answer them. Why didn't you address MY points countering your argument? I thought that's what you wanted, otherwise, why would you ask SPECIFIC questions and address them directly and only to me?

Don't you think that I deserve a better reply than the one you left? I actually took the time to consider your points and gave you the courtesy of a reply. If you didn't want a dialoge, why did you start one?

Van

House takes on MoveOn

IntheMiddle, Texas — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:31:36 GMT

This is not a waste of time. It is a disgrace to pull a political attack on a General that is serving presently. He is a leader of soldiers in combat and soldiers look up to this guy. MoveOn is a silly organization anyway. BTW, John Kerry is not currently serving and the Ads were about something 30 yrs ago. If it wasnt true then why did it work so well? The media says its not true so the rest of the Dems jump on it as if the media (NYT) is god.

House takes on MoveOn

Pete, Hartford CT — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:34:14 GMT

"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with you!"

House takes on MoveOn

J Lyon Silverdale, WA — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:36:08 GMT

It is sad that you all want the troops home, yet you slander one of the leaders in the process. You all yell "support the troops" but when it comes down to it, it's just talk since you've been sucked into the left's agenda because you don't like Bush. There are other alternatives besides Bush and slandering leftists. Just be sure you know what bandwagon you're on before your destination. Oh, and supporting the troops means ALL of them...hypocrites.

House takes on MoveOn

Diane, Grand Blanc, MI — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:36:56 GMT

It's hard to believe that many of the Democrats are enabling the Republicans to focus on anything other than Iraq. Shame on you democrats! These enablers who are voting to condemn MoveOn should be held accountable come the next election.

House takes on MoveOn

Bob Nader — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:39:26 GMT

Question: Why didn'the Republican House condemn the Swiftboater's attacks on Senator Kerry..

Answer: Because those were true.

House takes on MoveOn

F StLouis — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:39:48 GMT

What a rotten ass bunch of republicans. They don't want to deal with the important issues that will save lives, just continue to BS and avoid and politicize the crap out of everything. Well, the little monkey is THEIR leader. Figures.

House takes on MoveOn

nuanced — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:45:36 GMT

Gen. Petraeus should have said he could take some name calling and could take care of himself. Instead he is continuing to be a partisan enabler who doesn't put the country, the soldiers and the American people first. I guess he really is a chickenshit chickenhawk. At first I felt some sympathy but now I think he needs more calling out of what he is.

House takes on MoveOn

JJ in NJ — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:47:41 GMT

Don't these people have anything better to do? Iraq, health care, crumbling infrastructure, porous ports, terrorism a growing threat thanks to Bush Administration malfeasance -- and this bunch of pseudo-macho clowns are having the vapors because WAAH....MOVEON SAID MEAN THINGS. What a bunch of WATBs. And the Democrats are fools for getting sucked into it.

It's an ad. It ran once. Does it really warrant two weeks of breastbeating by Congress?

Al Franken has the right idea in this op-ed: http://www.startribune.com/562/story/1445784.html

House takes on MoveOn

nuanced — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:54:08 GMT

IntheMuddle said "If it wasnt true then why did it work so well?"

Many backward people and cultures have used that argument for justification of horrific deeds. They would tie a stone to an accused witch, throw her in the water and if she drowned it meant she was guilty.

House takes on MoveOn

Connie, Tn. — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:55:12 GMT

Any Democrat that votes for this is nothing but a COWARD. Who are they pandering to??

House takes on MoveOn

nuanced — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:00:21 GMT

Thanks for that link JJ. It was interesting to read that the Republicans voted against a general resolution condemning personal attacts on all who have served the country honorably. They wanted to reserve the right to continue personal attacks on people such as Max Cleland, John Kerry and John McCain. They only condemn attacks on 'their' guys.

House takes on MoveOn

Lee in CA — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:02:03 GMT

"It's an ad. It ran once. Does it really warrant two weeks of breastbeating by Congress?"

3- 4 weeks.

Freedom Fries, anyone?

House takes on MoveOn

Amy B Portland, ME — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:03:04 GMT

I vote to censure Congress for failing to uphold the First Anmendment. Now, how the hell do we do that?

House takes on MoveOn

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:03:21 GMT

MoveOn already! Don't we have more important things to do? I guess the House Republicans didn't learn their lesson last week when people were disgusted at the waste of time when this bill came up in the Senate.

House takes on MoveOn

Dave, Tn — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:13:15 GMT

They should have a vote to condemn Lee Harvey Oswald, and see if democrats can tell the difference between someone who has served, and someone who is serving.

I hear another winter soldier fell today. Someone named Jessie MacBeth???? dunno This is the only far left site I visit now.

House takes on MoveOn

JIrby, Colorado — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:16:24 GMT

It's not like everybody but the most ignorant fools don't know the Repubs are a bunch of cynical a-holes. What's really ironic is that they are covering Bush's ass for making the top general his personal flunky. If he had wanted a good general who was not his flunky, he would have kept Shinseki, who was smarter than the sleezes who criticized him and got him out a year early. Maybe that was Shinseki's mistake - as every good student knows, the one unforgivable sin in academia is being smarter than the teacher. This must work in politics as well. So, these prostitutes are in effect going after MoveOn for telling the truth. Lots of luck making it stick with anyone but Bush-voting morons, you crooked scumbags.

House takes on MoveOn

NGDB — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:24:28 GMT

They're drawin' boxes on the ground.

House takes on MoveOn

Willie Parker, Pittsburg — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:29:16 GMT

Carrie: MoveOn already! Don't we have more important things to do?

Pointing out that the Democrats are owned by an extremist organziation is important to a lot of people. You're just thinking a little Lysol will make the smell go away. Trouble is, the smell goes all the way to the core of the Democratic party.

House takes on MoveOn

M. Boley — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:35:13 GMT

Dave just gave it away that he is one of the 'dittoheads'.

Nice to see that you cannot think for yourself... instead, you gotta allow some 'radio guy' to do it for you.

House takes on MoveOn

bobf — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:35:43 GMT

I am so past this ad but why do the republicans want to keep reviving it? Remember they attached this to a spending bill. What the hell does this have to with spending? Ooh thats right the republicans suck so bad and have nothing to run on that they are creating issues. They can not run on anything positive. Republicans are only good at scaring americans. They do not want to debate or solve any issues. It goes against being a republican. Remember republicans hate government and thus they run it like crap. They create massive deficits so government can not spend to help our veterans or supply prpoer armor for our troops. Republicans want to destroy government except to creat a military economy and to spy on americans. These are the only 2 issues republicans are good at. They can not give enough money to the military, even if the weapon is no good Star Wars, these idiots would bankrupt our country to feel safe. Republicans also love BIG BROTHER. They only want government to spy and arrest as many americans as possible. The thought of government actually helping americans repulses republicans. Republicans will say, anybody that wants government to help are socialists. But they can not spend enough money on other countries. Just never ask a republican to help , they automatically call you a socialist/communist. Notice that republicans are all talk and no walk. They can only talk tough. Republicans will never lift a finger to help their fellow americans or fight for their country.

House takes on MoveOn

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:49:47 GMT

Willie Parker, Pittsburg--Why is it then, Willie, that it is your party that is on the way to the Political wilderness? Have you smelled your own stink lately? Don't let the screen door hit you in the a**.

House takes on MoveOn

MK,MO — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:55:12 GMT

Willie Parker, Pittsburg / rubbish willie, most dems thought that the add was unnecessary, but none the less it is not the most sinister thing that has ever occurred, fox news is still bringing it up hourly, makes them look ridiculous, and no one even mentions what was actually stated in the ad which just pointed out that the good generals testimony may be somewhat tainted, any reasonable person already knew what they pointed out

House takes on MoveOn

Dmurphy, Indio,CA — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:56:25 GMT

I just don't understand what the leftist are saying with bring the troops home, But leave troops there to fight Al-Qida. Who do you think is causing the bloodsed among it's own people? Ask the troops over there if they think the job is finished. They are the heros. They believe in what freedom is and what it cost. Demo's claim to support our troups but still say nothing and collect money from MoveOn.org. The best thing is to vote all of them out and start a new house and senate.

House takes on MoveOn

Gary, Franklin, WI — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:56:52 GMT

Gen. David Petraeus is a wimp and GOP lap dog. He should have been the first to call on Senate and House Republicans to keep their eye on the ball, getting the U.S. out of Iraq and not friutless non-binding resolutions.

Have any of the Repub idiots ever read the 1st Amendment. Like it or not, the MoveOn.org ad was appropriate discourse in the public square. Dubya made Petraeus a public figure. How many of us knew much about him before this? Get over it!

P.S. to InTheMiddle - Generals often are political figures. Dubya made Petraeus a political figure by saying his report would govern the President's next move on Iraq policy. Petraeus himself took on a broader political role by permitting the Petraeus "report" to be sanitized by White House neo-cons (most of whom never served in the military). Yes, I know he said HE never presented his testimony to the White House before reporting to Congress, but where do you think it went when shared with his bosses prior to Congressional testimony? If little David didn't want to assume his token role he could have chosen a brave alternative such as resignation or retirement. More importantly, that lap dog could have told Congress the truth!

House takes on MoveOn

Rick, WS, NC — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:56:58 GMT

This is why dems don't get trusted with our national security...they are a bunch of weenies...they let the reps slap them around on a bill that covers the not so swifties type stuff but will vote for some meaningless tripe that makes chickenhawks like jerry and ryan feel good...uh huh

House takes on MoveOn

Vet sick of chicken hawks — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:07:42 GMT

"They should have a vote to condemn Lee Harvey Oswald, and see if democrats can tell the difference between someone who has served, and someone who is serving. "

We're the ones who have served - remember, chicken hawk?

House takes on MoveOn

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:08:37 GMT

House takes on MoveOn

Buy bonds — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:09:13 GMT

"Don't let the screen door hit you in the a**." but don't worry about the draw bridge, Willie - it'll only hurt for a second.

House takes on MoveOn

Bob Witt — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:11:11 GMT

With the majority cngrssional Democrats, congressional action is getting more Republlican everyday. Remember all those denoucements of swiftwater...whose staments were shown to be untrue; and the Impeachement of Clinton for getting a blowjob.

House takes on MoveOn

M. Boley — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:11:12 GMT

"It is a disgrace to pull a political attack on a General that is serving presently."

Then he shouldn't have stepped into the political arena by being yet another stooge for Bush.

Step in shit and you will get dirty. Simple as that.

House takes on MoveOn

nuanced — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:18:34 GMT

M. Boley, thanks for the head up on Dave. Now I know that whenever I read one of his out-of-the-blue references that make no sense or that I've never heard of I can go read a Rush Limbaugh transcript to see the genesis.

House takes on MoveOn

M. Boley — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:21:27 GMT

Stupid spineless Dems... no wonder your ratings are in the toilet.

House takes on MoveOn

Pete Caloger Bushkill, PA 18324 — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:23:10 GMT

Maybe we can get the 50 state legislatures to agree to vote to condemn this ad in one shot, on one day, and then we can all be done with it.

House takes on MoveOn

BT King — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:26:48 GMT

Welfare queens (and kings) are waking up. Tone has turned decidedly to the left.

House takes on MoveOn

Lee Holmes — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:29:58 GMT

We may as well point out here that this folderol over ''free speech'' is all well and good when it is only the source that acts in a partisan manner[this being MOVEON]. Yet when a conservative Wisconsin group out of Milwaukee back in 2004 used advocate ads to urge minority Democrats not to block Bush judicial picks,the Pinch and Bill Show over at the Times went ballistic,screaming that this was an ''affront''to McCain-Feingold.[rather than the free speech that it actually was,as determined by none other than the USSC this year]. Nor did the Wisconsinites get any discounts. They paid full price for their ads.
The Federal Election Commission observes that MOVEON is a ''multi-candidate political action group''and as such,was not entitled to the discount given it by the Times,which has released a lame CYA in its editorial section earlier this week. The Times thus made a political contribution to MOVEON whether or not intended. This,not the ''free speech''of MOVEON ,is the issue.[As the Times itself acknowlaged back in 2004-2005 when it went gunning for conservative PACs].It is whether or not so-called ''independant''news organizations have the business to inject themselves into a partisan position by the use of pecuinary favoritism. As it is,the Times should be slapped with a fine,for exceeding federal guidelines that it demanded be placed on others who do not share their ideologies.

House takes on MoveOn

nuanced — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:41:13 GMT

I am waiting to hear that the Iraqi parliment passes a resolution condemning the ad. After all they are the ones who are supposed to be harmed by MoveOn undermining Gen. Petraeus' orchestrated farce testimony to keep US troops in Iraq.

House takes on MoveOn

M. Boley — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:47:29 GMT

"I am waiting to hear that the Iraqi parliment passes a resolution condemning the ad. After all they are the ones who are supposed to be harmed by MoveOn undermining Gen. Petraeus' orchestrated farce testimony to keep US troops in Iraq."

LMAO... good one.

House takes on MoveOn

Sierra, SF — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:47:34 GMT

Nancy Pelosi is my Congresswoman.
I had more faith in her.
I thought she'd get thing done when she bacame Speaker.
This is disgusting.

WAKE UP, NANCY !!
What's wrong with you ?
Why are you wasting time with this crap ?
Cut off funding for the war !!
What's so hard about that ??

IDIOT !!

House takes on MoveOn

Houston — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:49:08 GMT

This is a vote against free speech and a vote FOR unquestioning militarism and worship of the military. I'm afraid the Repubs are right: the Democrats who voted for this bill are cutting and running -- from their responsibilities to the voters who elected them.

House takes on MoveOn

Dave, Tn — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:49:14 GMT

OH Busted!!!! I listen to Rush. I also watch PBS News Hour, BBC, NBC Nightly News, listen to c-span Washington Journal, Glenn Beck, and I'm listening to Michael Medved right now. For comedy I come here and watch y'all parrot each other, and repeat the same crap you posted the day before. All spoon fed to you by the those who would rule everyone's lives. Jump off the Slave ship "you all"

House takes on MoveOn

Lee — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:11:10 GMT

Well, the truth is out - all the amendments to the Constitution are important, huh? Where are the jack asses from the NRA over the 1st amendment? I know they're all rightwing nuts, but even they should be smart enough to figure out that if there is a SECOND amendment, there should be a FIRST amendment, but that is giving them too much credit.

What the hell do they want the guns for, anyway? They support a police state government. The precious guns they hide under their pillows so they can have sweet, sweet "George is an honest guy" dreams will eventually be collected. Maybe then at least one of the stupid traitors will think "Maybe a Move-on ad wasn't so bad, after all."

House takes on MoveOn

Fed-up, Tucson, AZ — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:16:00 GMT

WTF??!!

Repeat after me - SWIFTBOAT[ERS] 4 TRUTH...Lies, Lies, Lies

Mouthpiece - General Petraeus, spouting Dumbya's 'Stay the Course" - Lie, Lies, Lies....

Anyone w/ enough cognitive development to walk, talk and chew gum, oh Yeah, I forgot, use the Internet to research US casualty figures, Iraqi casualties, read a balance of US and world news reports, keep a count of the # of idiot suicide bombers and # of dead & wounded can CLEARLY understand that "thhings" in Iraq are still going to Hell in a handbasket - NOT improving - even worsening AND Iraq is a 3-way theological civil war with the sleazy politicians stealing every dollar they can to fund their right-wing theo-fanatic thugs

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Chimpo even used the symbology of the 9-11 anniversary to schedule General Betray-us to act as Chimpo's salesman/politico - White is black - lies are truth, scare the public; it's worked every time B4.

Enough is Enough! Impeach this lying, crazed, incompetent Basta*d, Cheney & round up his thugs. Put THEM in Guantanamo and give'em Speedo's while a Special Prosecutor get the smaller rats to squeal and them bring'em to trial.

It is NOT a disgrace to call a LIAR a LIAR. The hack general has done the disgracing - His uniform and the values that it symbolizes. I took the same oath in 1968 when I was commissioned as a 2d Lt from OCS. It says protect the US from all enemies - right now that happens to be Chimpo McFlightsuit, Big Dick Cheney and all their co-conspirators.

House takes on MoveOn

Tuck,Realityville,Kansas — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:17:56 GMT

so the bush general is so wimpy he can't take the ad, though he campaigned for bush in 2004?

Geez, he's a perfect bushite!

House takes on MoveOn

Greg R., spokane, WA — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:20:31 GMT

So my Dad, born in 1931 and never voting anything but Republican......guess what?

Dad's done with 'em. I saw the light in 1994, thanks to Newt "Gangrape". This time around I'd like to thank the following people:

GWB, Roevels, Shame-me, Kinda sleezy, Donny Bombsfeld, "Boy Cry" Wolfowitz, J Paul Bummer, Jackin' Abram off, Tom "poopy pants" DeLay, Bobbin is Neigh and of course Larry and Foley man.

There are many more to thank, I can't do it all now, have to work.

You are a swell group of people!

House takes on MoveOn

John B, Des Moines, IA — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:39:18 GMT

While we were all standing around whining about MoveOn.org the American death toll in Iraq topped 3,800. Don't lose focus on what's really important.

House takes on MoveOn

Betrayedusisapuss — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:40:33 GMT

Petraus was appointed by a pu$$y and acts like one also. Typical of the Repubs...they dish out the sh*t but they can't take. A$$holes everyone of them

House takes on MoveOn

NSMSNBC — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:40:51 GMT

Dave from TN 3 things.

1) I find it amazing that with all of those news sources, you still can't separate the fact from the fiction nor can you separate right from wrong.

2) I'm guessing there is probably an emphasis on Rush, Glenn Beck and Michael Medved. You know, those fair and balanced news sources. What about FOX?

3) Do you actually spend some of your free time with, oh, a life?

P.S. you might wish to take some of your own advice and "Jump off the slave ship."

House takes on MoveOn

Willie Parker, Pittsburg — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:45:33 GMT

Actually, Willie, I am thinking that there are a hell of a lot more important issues for this government to deal with than an advertisement in the NYT. And seriously, is this is all the Republicans have to attack the Dems, they are in big trouble.

Oh much more then that Carrie. I guess we start by pointing to all the progress being made with the non-binding resolutions we've had throughout the year. That would be a good start.

Face it, the Democrats are the party of no ideas. They've gotten some milage being critical of the Republicans, but the Democrats have nothing when it comes to solutions to problems. And no, government cannot fix every problem, Hillary and company are just not that smart. People will figure that out soon enough. That is when the Democrats will be in big trouble.

House takes on MoveOn

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:48:19 GMT

nuance - Can the Iraqi parliament even agree on what time to break for lunch?

House takes on MoveOn

REG; East Valley Phx. AZ — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:24:54 GMT

I can’t imagine anyone really being upset with the ‘moveon.org’s’ “general Betray-us” ad considering it is just politics and all the mud slinging that goes on from both sides, besides it has a real basis of truth in it in that undoubtedly Gen Pertraeus slanted his report to be favorable in support of Bush (he would have been crazy not to please 'the man' and thus jeopardize his career). All of this noise is just that, political noise for attention and a total waste of time and taxpayers money. What really amazes me is how easily the Democrats are intimidated and ready to cave in. I mean you would think they could recognize the often used Republican tactic, probably a Karl Rove strategy, to arrogantly ‘not answer the criticism but rather attack the critic’. Personally I would have a lot more respect for the Democrats if they would have stood-up and told the Republicans to quit whining and to just explain why several other reports and the facts totally contradict General Petraeus’ report. How can we ever expect to see some honesty and a checking of the flagrant arrogance from the Republicans if the Democrats always just ‘put their tails between their legs and run’? It would all be laughable if our troops weren’t getting killed (and $140 billion more US dollars are being allocated where there is suppose to be a coalition sharing the costs) in the process while our politicians are playing these silly games. It sure would be nice to see some real honesty and some conscientiously responsible effort from our politicians.

House takes on MoveOn

Dave, Tn — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:39:09 GMT

" " - NSMSNBC

House takes on MoveOn

NRA supporter — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:21:47 GMT

Lee- They tend to get drunk and shoot each other - shut up.

House takes on MoveOn

Liam SoCal — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:51:42 GMT

Does anyone else wonder why Bush was already preparing his response to Petraeus' testimony--while Petraeus was still giving it--even though Petraeus openly said he had developed his report himself and hadn't told anyone what he planned to say? And Monkey Bush, who hates taking advice from anyone on anything, fell right into line with what Petraeus said. It's obvious--even those with the intellect of Bill Orally or Rush Windbag should realize that Petraeus was clearly instructed in what to say.

On the whole, I feel bad for Petraeus. He had to decide whether to continue to serve the American people or the Decider-in-Chief. He chose wrong, but if he hadn't, he'd be fired by now. Like every other general who had the nerve to tell Bush the truth. But on the whole, MoveOn was right--he abandoned his duty to America over his blind devotion to a monomaniacal warmonger. Period.

Such might indeed be considered treason--especially since Bush's record of lying to the people and sending the troops directly into harm's way without training or equipment might itself be considered treason. At the very least, Petraeus threw his full support behind a war criminal. And I don't think the excuse of "just following orders" will work anymore.

House takes on MoveOn

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:56:31 GMT

Willie - And what solutions have the Republicans offered? Staying the course? The great surge? At least the Dems are suggesting alternatives to the failed policy of the Bush Administration. It's actually pretty inaccurate to even call it a policy - that suggests that there is some sort of critical thinking involved in forming it, and I think it is relatively clear that there was no critical thinking when it came to Iraq.

House takes on MoveOn

Lalo Long Beach California — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:10:09 GMT

Since the ad has run, Move on has 10,000 new members and 1.6 Million $$ in donations...God Bless Move On.org!!!!

House takes on MoveOn

Dennis, Phoenix, Arizona — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:13:01 GMT

Why is it OK for Republicans to run attack ads like this but the moment some non-republican group does, then it is somehow wrong. Republicans shamelessly did this to war veteran John Kerry during the 2004 presidential campaign, they currently do it by manipulating disfigured war veterans to garner support for their lie based war and they will do it again and again. Give it up Republicans, the people of the USA are no longer buying your cheap attempts to twist perceptions about your war and your further attempts to manipulate the impressionable minds of this nation who like to be told what to think. Your quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand mentality has been exposed and all your attacks against those who oppose you only further expose your personal greed and hypocrisy.

In retrospect, I'm surprised that the common ordinary US citizen would even care about the Moveon.org Petraues ad. We all knew that General Petraues was going to write his own speech, in his own words, saying exactly all the things that he knew the Bush administration wanted to hear in a form that sounded acceptable to all republican politicians. The very fact that these Bush sycophants in the republican party got some of the spineless democrats to side with them in their wasteful republican efforts to condemn the MoveOn.org add clearly shows that these democrats are no different then these dysfunctional republican politicians. They both only value the interests of the rich minority of the nation, the interests of large corporations and votes in swing states as opposed to standing for their oath to the US Constitution, truth, the facts & doing the moral right thing by the people of the USA. McCain and all Republican politicians should be ashamed of themselves for their self-serving conduct all throughout the Bush administration as it is clear that they are not of, for or by the people.

If these spineless rich republican chicken hawks want their war so much, they should start funding it themselves instead of strapping the wasteful war debt on the backs of middle and lower class children for the next several generations. If these spineless republican chicken hawks really think that their illegal unconstitutional war was and is justified, then they should send their young college republican sociopath offspring to go fight their war. They all claim to be for war but always claim to be too busy to join the military and fight in it. Its time that they put their money where their mouths are by enlisting in the military and going to Iraq to be part of the Bush / Cheney / PNAC occupation of Iraq for oil.

MoveOn.org should be commended for their willingness to present the facts and stand up for the truth. Apparently, the Republican Party has not changed for the better and still has the very same unstable mindset of their vicious pseudo-conservative, quasi-Taliban mouthpieces like Ann Coulter who speak at their fund raising efforts. The appealing part about being like these viscous mouthpieces who attack MoveOn.org is the fact that it allows them to think that they are superior to others and further promote hate and war mongering within the masses. The sad reality to being one of these sociopaths is the fact that they usually cannot find anything filthier then their own personal reflection. When they are confronted with that reality, they always resort to the same cheap tactic over and over which is to rally their chicken hawks, hate mongers & vicious mouth pieces to make up lies against those who expose their sins. Very predictable…

House takes on MoveOn

Lalo Long Beach California — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:16:25 GMT

Since the ad has run, Move on has 10,000 new members and 1.6 Million $$ in donations...God Bless Move On.org!!!!

House takes on MoveOn

Riverlover, CA — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:38:03 GMT

All of my political donations will now go to MoveOn. When I called the DNC yesterday to cancel the monthly donation they took out of my bank account the guy who answered the phone asked why. I told him it was because of the waste of time regarding this ad, which, by the way, ASKED QUESTIONS! When I told him I was sending my $ to MoveOn he said "right on"! Is this the official stance of the DNC?

House takes on MoveOn

Tlynn, NC — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:41:54 GMT

MoveOn.org is opening peoples eyes to what really needs exposed. Seemingly we are working or there would not be so much talk about it. Secondly, it just shows what really goes on in Congress...SO what about the ISSUES that are important to the American People? What about the families suffering because a group of men and women are elected to represent the people that only think of themselves. What about our environment, or healthcare for ALL, our soldiers who have heard over and over that "WE ARE MAKING PROGRESS" per President Bush. Do you see progress? Do you hear progress? Do you care if there is progress? What about the AMERICAN PEOPLE and OUR NEEDS? A MoveOn.org ad stopped everyone in Congress to pass a piece of paper saying "YA DIDN'T LIKE THE AD" well BOO HOO BIG BABIES, MOVE ON and GET OVER IT!!!

House takes on MoveOn

D.J. Jandrey Dixon,IL — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:49:24 GMT

Move On is the only place you can find out the truth.If the Democrates want to be Republicans we can sure help them in 2008

House takes on MoveOn

Bob Zimmerman, Lafayette, Ca — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:59:05 GMT

I can't believe that my local Congresswoman Tauscher voted with right wing Republicans to condemn Moveon.org for the ad they ran in the N.Y. Times. Moveon has been a leading voice in trying to get us out of Iraq and has been a big supporter of the Democratic party. If only we had questioned a former four star general more when he spoke before the U.N. about WMD's. We would not be in this quagmire now. Four star generals are not beyond criticism especially when they are beholden to the Bush Administration. Democrats appear to be as wimpy as the press portrays them to be. They caved in to the right wing yet again.

House takes on MoveOn

Lee Steele Mountain VIew, CA — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:10:11 GMT

ATTENTION PLEASE: I HAVE A SMALL ANNOUNCEMENT TO MAKE

I just called my U.S. Representative's office (Anna Eshoo 14th District) and found out the the Honorable Congresswoman voted to condemn free speech by voting to condemn the MoveOn ad.

I informed the staffer that the Honorable Congress Woman could expect a letter from me renouncing my membership in the Democratic party.

Further, I am sending $1,000 (which I can ill afford but Wayne in Myrtle Beach owes me) to MoveOn.

I denouce the cowards that voted to condemn free speech - you've become a hideous parody of representative government, and betrayers of principles mixed in the foundation of the instruments and spirit of this country.

Every one of you has betrayed your oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" - you remember that "gd piece of paper"? You were the last of the two parties who did.

You aren't fit to be trusted with national security.

House takes on MoveOn

Mike Wilment, San Jose CA — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 01:23:52 GMT

LS from Mountain VIew "Further, I am sending $1,000 (which I can ill afford but Wayne in Myrtle Beach owes me) to MoveOn."

Should have flushed it down the toliet for all the good it will do.

House takes on MoveOn

Thomas Anthony — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 01:33:36 GMT

I wasn't convinced before, but now I am. No citizen's life, liberty or property are safe while Congress is in session.

I think I'll send MoveOn a check. Obviously, they are a formidable force. It's about time somebody is.

House takes on MoveOn

Lee in MV — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 02:28:02 GMT

Mike from SJ, if things don't change, all our lives are going down the toilet. I'm going to take my national swirly fighting, but then, I'm a liberal.

House takes on MoveOn

Tanya Belemy, San Diego CA — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 03:13:09 GMT

Please liberals, send Moveon your checks. The country needs to hear from these morons more and more. That way we'll know who controls the Democrats, the rich elites of the left.

Me? I'll my give money to the church. They help the poor.

House takes on MoveOn

moron — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:34:42 GMT

You sound real Godly, Tanya, you must be a right wing hypocrite. Knock yourself out.

House takes on MoveOn

hazmaq — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:31:42 GMT

This also proves how weak Steny Hoyer and Nancy Pelosi are as leaders.

Did the Republicans allow any 'amendments' against anything ever EVER said or done by them on the house floor. NO.
Why?
Because THEY were in charge.
In this Congress the Republicans and Israel control every last word said.

Every day that passes the Democratic party loses hundreds of members AND voters.

But isn't that what Steny and Rahm sought to do anyway?