First thoughts: Fred's debut

Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:42:47 GMT

Don't look now, but Bush sucks. Impeach Bush.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

diane — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:42:48 GMT

If Hillary was having a 40 days campaign on faith and family you would be in the church praying to her.
For your information, Obama has a 40 days of faith and family campaign in which he goes to SC to different churches and if asked to speak will.
but, may I ask, will there ever come a time when you guys report the facts fairly and not just kiss Hillary's a** or is that what you and the rest of her loyal poodles on msnbc get paid to do. By the clinton.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:54:25 GMT

I wonder about that Hillary surging in Iowa comment and yet she gets challanged by a guy at a meeting and she comes out snarling. Guess media matters will be looking for that guy today.

One has to wonder who is the chief Hillary attacker on the Edwards campaign; John or Elizabeth? In a way, John Edwards is more electable then Hillary Clinton because he does not carry as much baggage as Hillary does.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Students at UNF — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:57:03 GMT

Its going to be Guliani and Clinton and she will win in a landslide. We are going to have another Clinton in office....to clean up Bushs disasterous mess. She will be wonderful.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Dan G Pensacola, FL — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:57:45 GMT

I'm guessing Chris Matthews' first question to Thompson will have something to do with his wife's age, or possibly something else more irrelevant.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

JeanneGA — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:58:37 GMT

The more the repubs rail against Clinton and spew their hatred,the stronger this woman will become. Bill was really tough but Hillary is even tougher.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Frank — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:01:39 GMT

Al Gore! Even Democrats aren't that stupid.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Susan, Miami — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:03:18 GMT

The repubs keep calling Hillary shrill, and it is them who are becoming shrill. They go after her for apologizing to a guy who confronted her and when has Bush ever apologized to anyone. Shes intelligent and open minded and doesn't take crap from anyone. Sounds like a leader to me and the right wingers are shaking in their boots just thinking about her becoming president and turning this country back around to helping the middle class. They cannot stand this. I hope she kicks butt.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:04:54 GMT

diane is a big crybaby. Just vote for Guliani, phoney democrat.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Amy B Portland ME — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:07:28 GMT

I saw Edwards on MTP and I thought his strongest moment came when he said, very matter of factly, that its not about what happens to him personally, but about the millions of people who will still be uninsured if the Republicans win. Political reporters get so caught up in this peronality thing, they seem to forget what is really at stake. If Obama or Edwards win, we will see real change after eight years of mismanagement and decline.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

juan,ft lauderdale,fl — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:13:32 GMT

It is obvious we do not need another moron in office when Thompson stated recently that are main foreign policy concerns are China and the Soviet Union. Hello!!!!Can someone please inform the man that it nolonger exists. Apparently, he been the last few days, not doing any campaigning so he can catch up on his homework. GEEZ IS THIS THE GREAT WHITE HOPE THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT WAS HOPING FOR?

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Joes the man USA — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:13:33 GMT

It was announced today that Sandy Berger, former clinton security advisor will be joining the Hillary Clinton Campaign. Berger as some of you know pleaded guilty, to stealing Top Secrets Documemts for the National Archives, to prevent the 911 commission from tying Bill Clinton to Terrorism, or the lack there of in protecting the country from Al Queda. Berger also gave up his law license to avoid answering questions pertaining to the Top Secrets documents.. Many in the Clinton circle is wondering about Hillarys choseing Berger, Again this scandal, involving national Security, is not being reported by NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN,or MSNBC. Reference: WWW.DRUDGEREPORT.COM. IS the lead up to another attack on US coming and the Clintons want to look the other way again? embassies not protected, American war shipships blown up, id this what we have to look forward to under another clinton presidencey... Joe Biden/ Edwards 08

First thoughts: Fred's debut

George — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:19:24 GMT

You know things are going well when you lash out and accuse everyone of being against you. No, wait, that's paranoia.
The polls are rigged, the media is a co-conspirator, everyone who doesn't agree with me is uninformed, brainwashed, stupid, or worse.
If things started suddenly going your way, would that indicate that your candidate had made a better pact with the devil, becoming PART of the machine, or that the sour grapes, wild accusations and paranoid fantasies were just that?

First thoughts: Fred's debut

George — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:23:04 GMT

I have noticed with the campaign heading towards the end how the media, in compliance with the dictates of the Clintons, have been stepping up their gushing on the wonders of Hillary and their attacks on Obama.

diane (Sent Monday, October 08, 2007 9:48 AM)

You know things are going well when you lash out and accuse everyone of being against you. No, wait, that's paranoia.
The polls are rigged, the media is a co-conspirator, everyone who doesn't agree with me is uninformed, brainwashed, stupid, or worse.
If things started suddenly going your way, would that indicate that your candidate had made a better pact with the devil, becoming PART of the machine, or that the sour grapes, wild accusations and paranoid fantasies were just that?

First thoughts: Fred's debut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:23:18 GMT

Sandy Berger working as an unpaid advisor to Hillary Clinton?

I guess we know where that $850,000 in campaign returns is going to.

I hope Sandy is not going to be stuffing paperwork down his greasy shorts anymore.

Criminals hiring criminals; The Clinton Motto

First thoughts: Fred's debut

annefrank, FL — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:24:49 GMT

Dems won't hold impeachment hearings for the Worst. President. Ever. because it would be harmful to Hillary's presidential ambitions - with the media focused on OTHER impeachment hearings.
Heck! Obama doesn't even think Bush has committed impeachable offenses!! He probably got a bunch of Repub donation$ after that statement. That must be what Obama calls "working across the aisle."

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Sierra, SF — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:25:58 GMT

"I don't oppose all wars. And I know that in this
crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of
patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I
am opposed to is a rash war."

-Barack Obama Anti-War Rally, Chicago 2002

Barack Obama opposed Hillary Clinton's dumb war in 2002.

Hillary Clinton can't guarantee that she'd have us out of Iraq by 2013 if she were elected President

Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandal and divisiveness

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Margaret, NYC — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:28:09 GMT

The Clintons have REFUSED to release the list of donors to the Clinton Library - however news reports indicate the Saudi and Dubai governments are among them.
When will the media step up and urge the Clintons to release the names?
Tick...tick...tick....

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:28:40 GMT

I'm sure Fred, being a Politician, does what all the other Politicians do, and only watches himself on TV.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Arshad, Newburgh, NY — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:30:25 GMT

Mr Todd,
So Obama will borrow Edwards language to make a point, you think? This man wrote two best seller book. I was listening book review on C-SPAN other day and pundits said his first book "dreams from my father" was an American classic that people will read even after 100 years with a lot of interest. The man who started as a community organizer to help people who are in need. The man who defeated his opponent in 2004 Senate by 70% to 26% margin, one of the highest margin if not the highest margin of victory. The man who taught essence of constitution law. A man who can bring thousands of people on their feet by his oratory and passion and eloquence. You think he needs someone's borrowed word to make his point?

How about look at Clinton? She copy many exact phrases from Obama: "I will work with Republican (when never did before", "I will go to UN and declare America is back", "there is no good option in Iraq, there is no military solution (when she always pushed forward only military solution)", how about stealing the whole "change" argument from Obama? How about stealing from Bill Richardson the phrase" with me, you get both change and experience". I can keep going on and on. She is so scripted. Even now her script is not enough. She has to steal other people's words. When a question is asked beyond her scripts then either the question is hypothetical or the person who is asking is a "plant" from competition.

You folks on this page are pathetic. You have to add grains of salt on Obama always, even when the story has nothing to do with Obama. That tells people, he is the man with enthusiasm, he is the man loved by people except hired pundits. That you guys and your candidate Clinton is SOOOOO scared about Obama candidacy.
Tell me honestly, are you guys racist? Are you guys implementing Rupert Murdoch's mission? Are you guys bought by Zionist influence of money and media. It's clear Hillary is sold to those. Seems you guys are lining up as well. Guess what, someday you will have to answer to the people of this country for selling the essence of an honest profession: Journalism. I am waiting for that day.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:30:33 GMT

I see George McGovern is throwing his support to the Hillary campaign; hopefully this will be the kiss of death for her white house run.

Who accepts anything from someone who got whipped in 49 states?

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Richard, FL — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:30:47 GMT

Hillary is not ahead in Iowa - because the poll is 7 MOE.
But the media certainly likes touting the polling for 311 Iowans.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Sierra, SF — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:33:32 GMT

From The Politico:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1007/6219.html
Penn-Blackwater link puts HRC on defense

By: Ben Smith
Oct 5, 2007 05:39 PM EST

Penn is a singular figure in Clinton’s orbit, often
described as her Karl Rove.

Hillary Clinton found herself defending her chief
strategist Friday after The Associated Press reported
that the public relations company Mark Penn runs had
helped prepare the chief of the controversial military
contractor Blackwater USA for his congressional
testimony.

“Mark Penn did no work on the Blackwater account,”
Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson said Friday
afternoon.

Burson-Marsteller, of which Penn is Worldwide
President and CEO, “has cut its ties to Blackwater and
that was the right thing to do. Mark is and remains a
valuable member of our team,” Wolfson said....'

Why did Mark Penn HAVE TIES with Blackwater in the first place ? Penn also defended the Argentine military dictatorship and anti union corporations.
Why would Hillary select this evil dwarf to lead her campaign ?

'...Penn’s unusual dual role as corporate executive and presidential strategist has been a running source of distraction for Clinton’s typically single-minded
campaign. Though her supporters believe that voters
will ultimately be unlikely to make their choice based
on the actions of a consultant who is little known
outside political circles, Penn has drawn a steady
stream of criticism from other campaigns and from key
Democratic groups.

Labor leaders objected to his firm’s work against
union organizing, and Burson-Marsteller’s work for
clients that include the tobacco industry and a
leading, troubled subprime mortgage lender,
Countrywide Financial, have also drawn fire...'

Nark Penn is a 'union buster' !
Why would Hillary hire a 'union buster' ?
Why would any honest union support Hillary ?

'...“Bush has been a perfect example of cronyism, because Blackwater has given hundreds of thousands of dollars to Republicans and to President Bush. I also saw this morning that Sen. Clinton’s primary adviser, Mark Penn, who is like her Karl Rove — his firm is
representing Blackwater,” former North Carolina Sen.
John Edwards said in Iowa Friday.

“I think it is important for Iowa caucus-goers to
understand the choices they have in this election. And
it is the reason I continue to say we don’t want to
replace a group of corporate Republicans with a group
of corporate Democrats.” ...'

Corporate Democrats !!
Why support crooked Hillary ?

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Jim, Santa Cruz — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:34:56 GMT

I thought Edwards made a great showing on MTP Sunday. He answered Russert directly and intelligently. If he joined forces with Obama, they would be unstoppable.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:36:23 GMT

Thompson will fall flat on his face, but the repubs desperate for someone, anyone other than Guliani, will praise him and call him Ronald Reagan. What a joke!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

John B, Des Moines, IA — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:46:51 GMT

Pretty sad that the best conservatives can do is throw bombs at the Democratic candidates with nothing positive to say about the Republicans. Although there's plenty of time for the momentum to change I'll say this about the Iowa Poll; it's virtually always in the ballpark. I've been watching it my entire adult life and on every issue and candidate the poll provides a good snapshot. Personally I'm a little disappointed because I'd prefer to see Edwards as the candidate, but my conversations with Republicans indicate that Romney is very strong in Iowa. The people I talk to do not trust Giuliani.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:47:43 GMT

Big news for Hillary in the last 48 hours......

Hires a convicted felon as a unpaid advisor.....

Gets the ultimate liberal loser to back her campaign, considering he got horsewhipped in 49 states.....

going to be a long week for that girl.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Stated truth / AZ — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:59:56 GMT

Our Next President? But Fred Thompson could be the MAN!

All the others are JUST Washington Paper Hangers which are like teats on a a borer hog. America has lost the meaning of law and order. Kangaroo courts and judges, ego driven revenue cops, meaningless borders, self serving Washington Agenda.

What good is there in stateing your opinion,, Washington could careless what we think or say. Its all in the Hands of the Washington Paper Hanging self serving idiots!!!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Jim B. Towanda, PA — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:00:26 GMT

I've come to the conclusion that people of little character and child-like behaviors also have small letters for a name. g z

First thoughts: Fred's debut

MK,MO — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:04:53 GMT

the only honest man the republicans have to offer is ron paul, which explains why they keep the squelch turned up on him, honesty and politics don't mix, this whole election cycle is an absolute farce with the ultimate loser being the american citizen, business as usual, you bet

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Hard Facts / AZ — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:07:10 GMT

Hey Hillary,

Are you stacking your nest with convicted felons?? Seems like someone is watching you very close. Of Course,, ""You Know Nothing about HSU and now this felon.. Stinking foul Washington Paper Hangers always hang themselves!!!

I'll give you a free rope Hillary,, Do America a favor

First thoughts: Fred's debut

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:08:51 GMT

First Read ".....Giuliani first began thinking about running for president in 1963. Okay, "thinking" is a bit of a stretch but it's one of those "moments" we in the media love to find out about in our presidents.".....
*****************************************************
Could you be anymore biased?
No matter....Gigolo Rudy "G" isnt't winning anything in '08'
(....and you know it)

First thoughts: Fred's debut

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:16:58 GMT

Obama: Has a Turnaround Begun?

Monday, October 08, 2007
Advertisment

In the first few months of 2007, Barack Obama burst onto the national political scene and quickly took hold of the number two slot in the race for the Democratic Presidential Nomination.

For the month of April, just before the first of way too many Presidential debates, Obama’s support averaged 31% in the Rasmussen Reports weekly national polling update and he seemed poised to audition for the role of frontrunner (see summary of weekly poll results).

But, those April numbers represented a peak for Obama. His numbers slipped to 27% in May, 26% in June, 25% in July and 23% in August. He managed to stabilize in September and hold steady at 23%. For the week ending October 7, his numbers have inched back up a few points. It’s too early to tell if this is a turnaround, but it is worth watching.

One possibility is that Obama is gaining ground at the expense of John Edwards. The 2004 Vice Presidential nominee has struggled in both polls and fundraising. He recently announced that his campaign will accept public financing and all the restrictions that entails. Still, Edwards does better than any other Democrat in general election match-ups against GOP hopefuls (see summary of all match-ups and other key stats for Democratic and Republican candidates).

Through it all, Hillary Clinton remains the Democratic frontrunner. As noted a week ago, her nomination is not inevitable. However, she has gained support throughout the year and is showing no signs of letting it slip away. Rather than a sudden surge of support, Clinton’s approach has been slow and steady. She was supported by 33% of Likely Democratic Primary Voters in April. Her support then increased to 35% in May, 36% in June, 39% in July and 41% in August. It slipped a point to 40% in September but is up to 42% in early October.
For the seven days ending October 7, 2007, Hillary Clinton earns 42% of the vote. Barack Obama is second at 26% followed by John Edwards at 12%. Bill Richardson attracts 4% while Joe Biden is at 3% and Dennis Kucinich at 2%. Chris Dodd is supported by 1% Mike Gravel less than half a percent. Ten percent (13%) of Likely Democratic Primary Voters are undecided (review history of weekly results).

The seven day results typically include interviews with more than 1,000 Likely Democratic Primary Voters. This includes both Democrats and those independents likely to vote in a Democratic Primary. In some state primaries, independent voters are allowed to participate in party primaries while in others they are excluded. The margin of sampling error for the weekly update is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.

Updates prior to July 16 were based upon four days of polling conducted the Monday through Thursday preceding release.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/2008_democratic_presidential_primary

Van

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Monkeys are people, too — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:18:14 GMT

fred DOES look a lot like a monkey - maybe he could replace the one we have.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:21:12 GMT

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Ron R. Pittsburgh, Pa — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:22:47 GMT

Fred, has few original thoughts so he will hijack Ron Paul's campaign and say he is the next Ronnie Reagan.
The momentum is with Paul after a half year of filtering candidates. Fred's people acknowledge this and the only question is, does he steal Paul's issues
one by one or come out all at once.

Next, Fred will get dressed up with a straw hat, buy a shotgun and pick-up truck, chop some wood, ride a horse, etc.

Fred's people will not let Fred be Fred. The Ron Paul camp should be aware.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Kenn"LETS REWRITE HISTORY"O — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:25:31 GMT

Nixon was awesome remember jerry,oh thats right you werent born yet.Oh he did wonders for this country a secret war in cambodia where MIAs were never reported ,watergate and his lies to the US,made friends with the red monster MAO,yea, mcgovern would have been worse ,in what ways?

First thoughts: Fred's debut

MK,MO — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:30:57 GMT

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Rufus Gibbons, DC — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:37:48 GMT

Margaret NYC please tell me where to find a list of the contributors to the George H W Bush library, the Reagan library and the Nixon library.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Doug, San Diego — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:42:37 GMT

Yeah, Jerry, we are SO lucky we got Nixon instead of McGovern, that went so well... you gonna crow about the 2000 coronation, excuse me, election now? You and the other 30 percenters who still are glad we got Bush rather than Gore? Same people who are cheering for a win in Iraq like its a freakin' football game. Get some perspective, folks. Republicans get elected and people die in astonishing numbers. Keep that in mind. McGovern would have had us out of Vietnam in early '73, saving many American lives.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

russ gwen — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:46:58 GMT

Kenn"LETS REWRITE HISTORY"O - mcgovern would have been worse ,in what ways?

We'd be speaking Russian now.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Hard Truth //AZ — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:47:15 GMT

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Lyn, MD — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:47:55 GMT

I'll give you a free rope Hillary,, Do America a favor

Hard Facts / AZ (Sent Monday, October 08, 2007 11:07 AM)

Gee, I wonder what the responses will be to this person?
I wonder what they would be if this post was directed at senator Obama?

I hope that everyone can agree on joining in condemnation of this post and the troubled sould responsible. Get help! Now!

Van

I'm sure then you will agree in condeming "First Read's' ( in an earlier post today) use of the phrase "WARNING PEOPLE OBAMA WOULD ATTEND BLACK CHURCHES' Why does that require a warning? Is there something that they impy should be feared by a Black Man attending a Black church...what about a white church. What about a woman meeting with a group of women.

Rarely if ever do I agree with Van... but on this I will. That type of language has no place, in light of current events. The language is too inflamatory ( however, I must state the reference does have different connations when used against Black People)and it does not advance any dialogue.

First Read has repeatedly made snide and veil racist comments and MSNBC should be called to account, people who use words for a living should be held reponsible for their choices.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

MK,MO — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:49:43 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY in his infinite wisdom proclaims / 'I hope that everyone can agree on joining in condemnation of this post and the troubled sould responsible. Get help! Now!'

maybe everyone should ban together and condemn your spelling instead. Get spell-check! Now!

you pompous illiterate oaf, it must suck to be you

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:56:49 GMT

FOR INFO ON THE STORY NOT BEING COVERED BY THE MSM:

http://www.northcarolinaconservative.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1188428152&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&

WHERE IS THE MEDIA COVERAGE and WHY aren't they on this story???

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Sierra, SF — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:00:17 GMT

From the DailyKos:
http://www.dailykos.com/

'...How anti-war is Hillary?
by kos
Mon Oct 08, 2007 at 08:08:56 AM PDT
Retired general endorses Clinton, says she doesn't oppose the Iraq war at all.

A retired U.S. Army general visiting [New Hampshire] to campaign for Hillary Clinton said yesterday she does not oppose the Iraq war -- and she said she's never heard Clinton oppose it, either [...]

Kennedy said, "I don't oppose the war. I think it's being very badly led by the civilian leadership." And, [Retired Lt. Gen. Claudia Kennedy] added, "I have not ever heard (Clinton) say, 'I oppose the war.' I've heard her say that we need to begin withdrawal under a plan led by the military and defense secretary. I've heard her say we need to create a regional stabilizing group by allies, by leaders in the world and by all of the states that are bordering Iraq. That is a very important idea and the point of that group is to create incentive and assurances that will keep the neighboring countries from becoming involved and entering Iraq. That's a much more sophisticated thing than saying, 'I oppose the war.'"

Huh? What the heck is she talking about? Is this some pathetic attempt to differentiate herself (and HIllary, by extension), from those dirty fucking hippies that just want to, er, end the war?

But if she wants to broadcast to all of New Hampshire that Hillary is not anti-war, then by all means, she should keep doing so.

More troubling than a confused retired general is this:

At a campaign stop here, Hillary Clinton sparred verbally for several minutes with a man who pressed her on her recent vote to call Iran's army a terrorist organization.
Randall Rolph, from nearby Nashua, asked why he should support Clinton's candidacy when she did not appear to have learned any lessons from having voted to authorize force in Iraq.

Clinton thanked him for the question and explained her Iran vote would lay the groundwork for using diplomacy and sanctions to pressure that government.

Clinton accused the man of being a plant who had been sent to ask the question, to which he took exception, saying the question was a result of his own research.

"I apologize," Clinton said, explaining that she had been asked the very same question in three other places.

She's being asked that question because many can't believe that Hillary is so damn stupid as to give George Bush a rationale for attacking Iran.

She really didn't learn her lesson the first time. Is she seriously claiming that this resolution was really needed to "lay the groundwork for using diplomacy and sanctions"? What, was Condi Rice (remember her?) hamstrung on her ability to conduct diplomacy without Congress giving her the thumbs up?

Does she think her audience is that stupid? Apparently so.

No wonder she won't apologize for screwing up the Iraq War Authorization. She sees nothing wrong with that vote, and has every intention of casting that kind of vote over and over again...'

'...Does she think her audience is that stupid? Apparently so...'

Especially her supporters!! (see above)
Hillary IS NOT ANTI-WAR !
Hillary is PRO-WAR !!

'...She's being asked that question because many can't believe that Hillary is so damn stupid as to give George Bush a rationale for attacking Iran...'

Hillary is PRO IRAN WAR !!
Why else would she vote for this ?

Hillary has said she won't guarantee an end date for leaving Iraq !!
If SHE can't guarantee an end date for leaving Iraq
Why did she ask Bush for and end date ?

Just political positioning !!

Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandal and divisiveness

First thoughts: Fred's debut

sonya, atlanta, ga — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:02:16 GMT

I don't think you can qualify a 6 point lead in Iowa with a margin for error of 4 as surging. Especially since polls are so difficult to track in Iowa. Other polls have a statisical dead heat and one with Obama in the lead. I think it's still a 3way tie.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:17:01 GMT

Thanks Lyn-

When it comes to bigotry, race-baiting, lynching references, etc., we should all be able to put aside our differences to agree that this type of stuff is sick, unless they are sick too (MK).
MSNBC is often guilty of the yellow journalism you refer to. They do their best to toss red meat into our respective cages to get the maximum response, often at the expense of the truth, and more often then not, good taste.

No, Lyn, we don't often agree, it's true, but we are united in our hatred of bigotry and those who espouse it, endorse it and in the case of MSNBC, encourage it.

Van

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Sierra, SF — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:19:12 GMT

G: '...diane is a big crybaby. Just vote for Guliani, phoney democrat....'

uThe Clinton Cult Charm Offensive continues.
More mindless nonsense from g.
Does THAT little boy have anything meaningful to say ?

Why don't you condemn THAT, van ?
As long as you're now regulating speech on this blog....

;-0

First thoughts: Fred's debut

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:20:22 GMT

"...maybe everyone should BAN together and condemn your spelling instead. Get spell-check! Now!
MK,MO (Sent Monday, October 08, 2007 11:49 AM)

Let's all BAN together for spell-check!

It must be a laugh-riot to be you, I'm LMAO right now!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:21:02 GMT

Sierra - Obama couldn't guarantee he would have us out of Iraq in 2013 either. But I guess it looks better to just leave that out, right?

First thoughts: Fred's debut

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:21:20 GMT

I think it's still a 3way tie.

sonya, atlanta, ga (Sent Monday, October 08, 2007 12:02 PM)

I think the Mets can still make the series...

Van

First thoughts: Fred's debut

??? — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:24:06 GMT

hillary wants to give every child $ for college or to help buy a house all the repubs want to send every child to die in a religious war, which one to choose?

First thoughts: Fred's debut

??? — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:24:21 GMT

hillary wants to give every child $ for college or to help buy a house all the repubs want to send every child to die in a religious war, which one to choose?

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:24:59 GMT

Sierra, you are sooo borrriiinnggg. Your wife must be bored to tears.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Susan, Miami — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:27:47 GMT

Hey keep writing facts Van, you are the greatest. Don't take these anti Clinton nutcases seriously. Keep up with the truth and the facts. They cannot handle the truth. When Hillary wins we will be celebrating.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:30:21 GMT

Doug in San Diego:

If America was so smart, why did they elect Nixon for McGovern......

McGovern would have gotten us out of Vietman......
Has Hillary made the pledge lately about Iraq?

Think you better read up on that liberal moron, he and Walter Mondale just better stay on the sidelines for this one.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

bb — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:30:41 GMT

Hillary will win in 08 and Sierra will have a nervous breakdown. BOOOHoooo.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

F StLouis — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:34:15 GMT

I like what Mr.Van has to say and I encourage him to continue. The more they shriek against the Clintons, the more I want her to win. The little woman has got more common sense and intelligence than all the republican candidates put together.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Bionic Beavers — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:34:49 GMT

we's all think hillary is strong and tough and smart just like us all here , cuse hilary has a vagina jus like us here. hillary scares men too. Go Hillary, Go!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

bb — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:36:58 GMT

Just read that Britain is removing half of its troops soon. So much for the coalition of the willing. Our president is a horrid joke.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:41:27 GMT

Susan/Miami:

Better come over to our team and get the victory....
at least your vote will count!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:43:44 GMT

I'm wondering, ""VAN" You like Hillary are misleading in the subject matter,,,more like twisting subject matter to be self serving. Just maybe you have a big tree in your back yard Hillary and you can use!!!

P.S. """STFU"""

Hard Truth //AZ (Sent Monday, October 08, 2007 11:47 AM)

You censored my highlighting this and saying that if MSNBC ever gets a moderator who can read and write English, that the above is the type of post that should be flagged.
I posted it and you took it DOWN after you printed it!
For shame! How sad, MSNBC!

Van

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:44:06 GMT

From the above photos, it looks like they are listening to the same song. My guess would be, "Like a Virgin" by Madonna.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

PJ — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:44:35 GMT

See that pic of Fred at the top of this article....caption should read..."I wish someone had briefed me on this Soviet Union thing..."

First thoughts: Fred's debut

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:45:13 GMT

I can't believe that MSNBC would censor a post about their inability to moderate their own page, but they did.

Van

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Sierra, SF — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:45:55 GMT

Carrie, Eastern Iowa: '...Sierra - Obama couldn't guarantee he would have us out of Iraq in 2013 either. But I guess it looks better to just leave that out, right?...'

No, Carrie I'm NOT PLEASED with Obama's or Edwards statements on that subject, either.

I am amsued with your response....
It's OK for Hillary to say it, if Obama sayid it, too !!
Aren't you a little concerned with these statements ?
Don't you expect more from our party ?
2013 ?
We should be out in a YEAR !!
Does this matter at all to you ?
Or do you just want to elect your candidate ?

What about the Iran vote ?
Does THAT bother you ?

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Blue state baby — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:46:55 GMT

Susan, Miami is already on the winning side!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Jim Allen, Atlanta GA — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:48:47 GMT

While the Bozos are dissing the current candidates, has it occured to anyone else that maybe Bush is not a former alcoholic, but a current alcholic?

That would explain the stupdity of some of his "decider" decisions and his inability to accept both reality and responsibility for his mistakes.

And maybe explain some of his speeches.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:48:47 GMT

I think I finally understand the rationale for the color-scheme of this blog;

"Yellow journalism is a pejorative reference to journalism that features scandal-mongering, sensationalism, jingoism or other unethical or unprofessional practices by news media organizations or journalists. It has been loosely defined as "not quite libel".

Not quite.

Van

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Sheri, Helena, MT — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:53:51 GMT

Oh Please already with the Clintons!!! Hillary is a joke, just like her husband they are as smooth as butter and say what you want to hear!!! Bush had a lot of mess left on his platter when the Clinton's left the White House believe it or not! Some very hard times have come upon the US and forget Bush right now lets look to the future to see who will be the best leader for all of us and our country we need someone who knows how to handle foriegn affairs also in country issues like health care and not raising the working peoples taxes for free bees to all of those who LOVE HAND OUTS!!!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Jimmy Swagard, the nut house — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:56:45 GMT

Fred Thompson for President. He's got my vote !

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Sheri, Helena, MT — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:57:56 GMT

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Chris, AZ — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:58:39 GMT

Go Van go! I like what you have to say and I'm now leaning towards Clinton. Thanks for all the info.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Andrew, NJ — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:02:02 GMT

EVERYONE: Make sure to have a HUGE cup of coffee for the debate. Otherwise you'll fall asleep when Fred Thompson starts talking.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

MN — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:04:58 GMT

Wow, look at all the republicans afraid of little ole Hillary. If anyone thought Hillary could not get elected, should check you guys out and see how scared you really are.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Margaret, NYC — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:07:50 GMT

John Edwards voted against funding Blackwater in Oct. 2003 - Obama and Hillary kept funding them even AFTER news reports of Blackwater's violations!
Follow the money...

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Richard, Palatka, FL — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:12:53 GMT

America is not a banana republic - where a few families rule to coverup the crimes of the previous rulers!
Bush-Clinton dynasty - NO!!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

MK,MO — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:15:13 GMT

First thoughts: Fred's debut

G S — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:21:25 GMT

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Mark Thieme — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:23:14 GMT

Perhaps Van's vitriol needs closer monitoring.

In a word, he has ruined the board.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

H P Boston — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:25:45 GMT

Straight up is Hard truth..He is a black man with a big problem. We knew it was you as soon as you started with the paper hanger?? stuff. Why are you so
choosing the same treatment of other you do not wish for yourself?
Cut the crap STRAIGHT UP?//? HARD TRUTH!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

REG; East Valley Phx. AZ — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:27:29 GMT

American politics is literally in the toilet … and those who won’t admit it are the extremely wealthy who are benefiting, the marginally wealthy who think they are benefiting and those who are simply focused on individual issues and are then being manipulated. There should be no doubt that we have a sociopathic president who is habitually dishonest and arrogantly pursuing a private agenda to benefit Special Interests and a select few, who in return support and back his administration, while he dumps an abundance of subterfuge on the American people – that is obvious and well documented. But the fact is that he didn’t elect himself!
It is also true that several of the current presidential candidates leave a whole lot to be desired: Fred Thompson appears to not even know what is going on and Rudy Giuliani seems to be trying to just capitalize on his ‘9/11’ performance, with both of them just really competing to be the next ‘puppet’ for the rich and powerful who now back and support Bush; then there is Hillary Clinton , another obvious sociopath, who may not be as controlled by others as George is yet she is still just as self-focused, egotistic and dishonest; and these are the current leaders in the popularity contest. Their personalities and history should be enough to really keep them from being considered but that simply isn’t the case. Why? It is apparently the combination of our blind preoccupation with our self-interest and their ability, with the substantial covert and overt support of those who back them (and who then benefit), to exploit that weakness. We really need to understand that it isn’t like emotionally supporting our favorite sports team, as far more is at stake, and that when we make ourselves vulnerable we literally have no one to blame but ourselves. The American people currently are simply a large part of the problem. If you doubt it, then just read a few days of these comments and see the irrational emotions, the focus on the trivial, the self-satisfying moronic expressions and the rationalizations to justify individual biases. As long as that thinking is prevalent, then the manipulators are ecstatic as their job is simply made easier.
In America today we have factions whose sole intent is to coerce, deceive, intimidate, mislead, distract, discredit, camouflage and/or whatever to manipulate public opinion. That includes those who, with apparent good intentions, totally focus on their limited issues and simply neglect the total picture, then egotistically make decisions and strongly advocate that others follow them. Unless each voter takes the responsibility to put aside their own biases, to avoid being manipulated and/or just led, and objectively evaluates the total picture and then conscientiously makes their own decisions, we will always be susceptible to ‘more of the same’. That literally scares me. If they steal the voter’s mind, they don’t need to steal the votes, as was supposed in 2000 (Florida) and 2004 (Ohio). It is important to objectively see the truth and if we can’t have the needed discipline, how can we ever expect them to. It really would be best this time around if the American people can simply make it their responsible and honest selection. Ca’mon people, let’s really care!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:38:46 GMT

Hard truth/AZ is Jerry too. what a phoney!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

MK,MO — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:39:58 GMT

after reading the 500 + posts on the 'hillary gets snippy' deal, anyone who thinks Hillary is not the most divisive and polarizing candidate in this election cycle is just plain nuts,
she can’t win the general election, and that is what the dems need to focus on

First thoughts: Fred's debut

daveinboca Boca Raton FL — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:42:29 GMT

Strange the little blurb on Thompson mentions SNL, but the one on Edwards, where Amy Poehler called John-boy an ambulance-chasing, charlatan, rat b*stard [and got a lot of applause from the NYC audience!] goes unmentioned.

Someone's bias is showing.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

daveinboca Boca Raton FL — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:48:20 GMT

"maybe everyone should ban [sic] together and condemn your spelling instead. Get spell-check! Now! you pompous illiterate oaf, it must suck to be you"

Actually, this is the funniest comment by a delusionary idiot that I've seen for a good long while! Ron Paul??

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Amanda Adams, Cedar Rapida, Iowa — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:49:00 GMT

**** GO TO HILLARY'S WEB SITE AND CHECK IT OUT !! *** hillaryclinton.com

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Gary — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:54:15 GMT

F StLouis //The more they shriek against the Clintons, the more I want her to win//

Certainly a weird way to pick a candidate. Sounds kind of vengeful. But, at least there's a process, right?

First thoughts: Fred's debut

bb — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:56:39 GMT

Hard truth/AZ IS Jerry!!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Kayode Alli, Seattle, Wash — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:57:34 GMT

hillary clinton continues to display what a corrupt, dishonest, and corporate owned entity she is, and the media continues to praise her, they can't give a coherent reason for praising her, but praise her they must, seems to be the general consensus of all her backers, we don't know why we back her but we sure as hell do, a single file line of sheep obediently marching to the slaughter-house
MK,MO (Sent Monday, October 08, 2007 11:30 AM)

MK. I am so much ashamed of you and your cutter language. I am VERY sure you are republican. If you don't know why we are support Hillary, ASK Alan Greenspan who described Bill Clinton as the BEST republican President of our time. Mind you, Alan Greenspan is a republican. He also claimed that Bill clinton handled the economy far better that Bush.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Mark Thieme — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:01:22 GMT

As a radical supporter of the First Amendment, I have opposed censoring even the most provocative and distasteful materials.
I do not support anything Rush Limbaugh has ever said, and my own opinion of the man as a human being is quite low. No, he should neither be censored by the government nor the media. But anyone who listens to him for "facts" does has not earned and do not deserve the rights and privileges of American citizenship.

This vanreuter character comes blasting on this board with his biased facts as if he were the Word come down. Like Limbaugh, he cries when his judgment or intelligence is questioned, bleats and blares his acid in whatever direction he pleases. Like Limbaugh, he is wind tunnel.

If that is what people want to read on a political blog on Monday morning...well, I think you know my opinion.

Maybe someday vanreuter will have his own radio show where he gets to make fun of others and scream foul at every challenge.

Until then, I'll be waiting, listening, but no longer reading First Read, what was once one of the best political blogs online.

Best wishes to all who linger here.

Listen to the silence of all those who have left.

Click.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

H P Boston — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:07:12 GMT

Van please keep up "ruining the board" it has been much better with you here.
Really Mark Thieme is someone now pretending to be you??

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:07:35 GMT

No I'm Jerry.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Mark Thieme — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:12:41 GMT

Unclick: ...has not earned and does not deserve...

Just a little more fodder for the little man who never makes a mistake.

Re-click.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Sierra SF — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:12:42 GMT

Actually I think Juan in Ft. Lauderdale is Jerry.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

H P Boston — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:13:07 GMT

BYE-BYE Mark..have a great time in your F O D'S.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:14:14 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY / if msnbc stops allowing rubbish to be posted where do you plan on posting? I just want to make sure your followers who can't form a complete sentence on they're own know where you are. If I can be of further assistance in your move don’t hesitate

MK,MO (Sent Monday, October 08, 2007 1:15 PM)

All I can say is, for the umpteenth time, it's, "THEIR".

Van

PS: Bye Bye, mark.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Students at UNF — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:15:13 GMT

We LOVE you Van! Keep writing the facts.Go Hill!!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

H P Boston — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:16:38 GMT

Actually I think Sierra is RUSH! the limburger! Stinks! Sounds cheesy too!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

The Alphabet Kid — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:17:12 GMT

Small mind, little z.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

MK,MO — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:23:48 GMT

Kayode Alli, Seattle, Wash writes / 'MK. I am so much ashamed of you and your cutter language. I am VERY sure you are republican. If you don't know why we are support Hillary, ASK Alan Greenspan who described Bill Clinton as the BEST republican President of our time. Mind you, Alan Greenspan is a republican. He also claimed that Bill clinton handled the economy far better that Bush.'

forgive me kayode I didn't realize bill had entered the race, my sincerest apologizes

illegal narcotics are still readily available in seattle it would seem

First thoughts: Fred's debut

offensive line University of Souther California — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:29:18 GMT

We're the undefeated number 1 football team in America, and that's a fact. we love Rush. any friend of Rush is a friend of USC! Go vanreuter and Go Trojans!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

MK,MO — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:31:54 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY / 'All I can say is, for the umpteenth time, it's, "THEIR".'

sorry for the mistake van, a bad habit of mine I know, my offer still stands on the move though

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Lee in CA — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:32:41 GMT

"Better come over to our team and get the victory....
at least your vote will count"

At least twice.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

PJ — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:36:56 GMT

GS: The "Soviet Union" was dissolved in 1991. You must've been in that cave with Fred for the last 16 years.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

John B, Des Moines, IA — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:37:34 GMT

G S, the Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. I realize that's only 15 years ago, but as someone who aspires to be leader of the Free World Mr. Thompson should try to keep up with current affairs.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

GS — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:53:37 GMT

what shall be our legacy, what wil our children say?let them say of me, I was one who believed in sharing the blessings I received.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:08:16 GMT

They could use Vanrueter on Air America......
They always could use two more listeners........

Anybody who believes any poll right now must need some serious mental help......

We will find out after the Iowa Caucus who is in the drivers seat.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Mark Thieme — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:20:31 GMT

HP: it is not so much FOD as it is that the dude who calls himself van is FOS.

I actually agree that Hillary will be the nominee, win the general election against any of the clowns in the debate tonight.
Although I do not formally support her, I think she will be a first rate president if the bubbas don't ruin it for all of us.

HP, I have always appreciated your posts and your intelligence. In this case, I must say we do disagree. I cannot agree with the behavior of everyone whose politics are the same as mine.
Never have liked pretentious louts (Rush). Van reuter's facts are frankly misleading and FOS, as is the person who uses that moniker.

His "facts' are merely props for his LOS. They have virtually nothing to do with the reality that Hillary Clinton is a brilliant strategist and political tactician and will be a great president.

HP, trust me, van is doing Hillary no good and her people would just as soon buffoons like him would stay off the boards.

Van's interest is van and nothing more. His FOD is all about him, but nonetheless, he remains, first and primarily, FOS.

Cheers.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Desmond — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:37:48 GMT

Mark Theime, my high horse became entangled with a crazy horse. Went to the Velvet Underground.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Adam, Pittsburgh — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:46:38 GMT

A Dem voter doesn't have to be anti-Clinton or tired of Obama to realize that Gore is the best candidate. I support Obama, and I'm comfortable enough with Clinton, but Gore is more qualified with a stronger vision.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Alan in Phx — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:47:12 GMT

Hillary was glad that the Diamondbacks kicked the Cubs asses, not that she even spent one minute watching and she is praying the Indians do the same tonight to the Yankees. That way she will not have to make that tough choice, errr answer that stupid question again, on a world series selection. Cannot have the smartest women in the world torn between her two "favorite" teams.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

nuanced — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:12:24 GMT

we have little jerry in all of us -- please try to keep it suppressed.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Robert Ringgold — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:37:51 GMT

The closer Hillary gets to becoming president, the more rabid her attackers get. Relax, after 8 years of Bush you should be able to stand anybody.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Sierra, SF — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:54:37 GMT

;...Actually I think Juan in Ft. Lauderdale is Jerry.
Sierra SF...'

So now the Clinton cult is forging my name on their posts ?
The Clinton cult 'charm offensive' continues....
Make your own comments, DON'T USE MY NAME FOR YOUR MINDLESS COMMENTS

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:08:48 GMT

I hope that I can say this right as I mean no offense to anyone writing on this board. I am an unabashed Democrat. Not that I agree with everything that has been done while the Dems have been in power but I support them whole-heartedly, because the Democratic Party (the oldest political party in the world) has, in principle, since its inception, fought for the little guy. The party has always fought, not only for the have-nots (remember when Bush said his two favorite groups of people were the haves and the have-mores) but also for those hard working Americans, be they laborers or owners of small businesses, struggling to make ends meet, because they (the Dems) want to preserve that spirit of hope (through social mobility) that makes America what it is.

I sincerely ask all of you Hillary supporters, when your candidate aligns herself with corporate interests (who need no help from the federal gov't.), helps to involve us in wars without first preparing herself to make a decision based on solid fact, how can you support this candidate? When your candidate votes, not once but twice, over a five year period, to give an incompetent and war-mongering president defacto authority to wage war, how can you support this candidate?
When your candidate time and time again finds herself embroiled in scandals involving the collection of campaign funds, how can you support this candidate?

Say what you will about Democrats, but when a person who is running for the Democratic nomination does not embody the principles of the party, how can you support that candidate?

We can't support a candidate because of their gender or their race but we must support a candidate because of what they stand for. We can't support a candidate remembering what life was like before this administration but we must support a candidate who exhibits the best judgment to meet the problems of this and the next decade. Obama is the candidate who by word and deed best exemplifies the principles of this party and seems best able through his integrity and good judgment to fill these shoes. There are other Democrats that may be less able to fit the bill and yet I could live with them as president (especially when they have recognized their mistakes and made efforts to correct them). However, with all due respect to Senator Clinton (for she has accomplished a lot in her career), I see her moving to the wrong side of the political spectrum. I cannot support her candidacy and won't vote for her in 2008, if by some chance she steam rolls into the nomination (though I think the anti-Clinton candidate will emerge in Iowa - and I hope that it is Obama).
Obama '08

First thoughts: Fred's debut

mybestguess — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:09:10 GMT

Let's be realistic here for a minute - Obama will get his shot in 2016 - Edwards got his shot and got shot down .... no second chance for John. Obama will have to battle Hillary's VP for his place in the sun however (obvious since he won't be the VP) -

I like Richardson for this role but maybe Vilsack of Iowa or Evan Bayh of Indiana......all you Edwards, Obama and Ron Paul diehards will just have to bite a very hard bullet and get with the program.

For those that go on and on and on about Hillary's unelectability - you've got a very big surprise coming......look at the opposition - Guiliani?? Get serious!! That big old Clinton Green River money machine keeps rolling, rolling, rolling...big river keeps on rolling. We don't always get what we want, but somtimes we get ......... well, you know the rest.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:30:36 GMT

The fear of the repukulans is so real on this page, I love it. After six years of suggesting that three quatrers of americans are unpatriotic, communists and evil, we 3/4s are feed up and ready to vote for anyone that is not a drunkin sailor on issues. We want a person who thinks first, acts second. You all had six years with the white house and both houses and supreme court. You did nothing but start a second war instead of finishing the first. Afganistan could be different today but George and THE Dick took their eye off the ball. I know how you repukes like sports metaphors.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Molly, Iowa City — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:17:36 GMT

"I'll say this about the Iowa Poll; it's virtually always in the ballpark. I've been watching it my entire adult life and on every issue and candidate the poll provides a good snapshot. Personally I'm a little disappointed because I'd prefer to see Edwards as the candidate,"

John B, Des Moines, IA "

John you are confusing the Iowa poll of primary and general election, and the Iowa poll on various non-election issues with an "Iowa poll" on caucus strength. The Iowa poll is no better than the other polls in predicting caucus support. In other words it is useless! I'm not supporting Edwards, but by all indications he is still in the lead, whether he'll win in January is another story.

In 04 on the ground it was clear the race was competitive and Kerry was not the long shot the media portrayed based on the "Iowa poll", and other polls. None of the polls were close, and the reasons given to explain how far off they were are a joke. i.e. the negative ads brought Dean and Gephardt down. WRONG Gephardt being Bush's cheerleader on Iraq caused those of us who supported him in 88 to want nothing to do with him. And Dean polled at 20% (in November and January) and received 18% it was within the margin of error, the mistake the pundits and pollsters made was assuming that the undecideds would break evenly among the candidates. You can find the Iowa polls on line for their polls released on August 3, 2003, Nov. 9, 2003, and Jan 17, 2004 (two days before the caucus).

Here are just a few of the results

8/3/03
DEAN 23%
GEPHARDT 21%
KERRY 14%
LIEBERMAN 10% (he pulled out of Iowa less than a month later because he had no real support in Iowa, i.e. he never had more than 1% and the polls only showed name ID!)
EDWARDS 5%
KUCINICH 4%

November 9, 2003

GEPHARDT 27%
DEAN 20%
KERRY 15%
LIEBERMAN 5%
EDWARDS 5%
CLARK (Wesley) 4%
KUCINICH 3%

January 17, 2004 (2 days before the caucus, at this point you could take an Iowa poll to the bank, if it was of the general or primary election!)

KERRY 26%
EDWARDS 23%
DEAN 20%
GEPHARDT 18%
KUCINICH 3%
CLARK 2%
LIEBERMAN 1%

ACTUAL CAUCUS RESULTS plus or minus where they polled 24 hours earlier!

KERRY 37.6% + 11.6 (the poll was 44% off)
EDWARDS 31.9% +8.9 (the poll was 38% off)
DEAN 18% -2, but within the margin of error
GEPHARDT -10.6% (the poll was 41% off)
KUCINICH 1.3% -1.7
CLARK .1% -1.9
LIEBERMAN 0% -1

Clearly the all powerful Des Moines Register's Iowa poll is no better at caucus predictions than the Washington Post, etc, They do not start with a valid polling sample. They use voter registration lists (the latest Iowa poll didn't even narrow the sample to Democrats who voted in the 06 primary, which had a hotly contested Governors race, and a open congressional seat with 3 Democrats running) Any caucus poll that doesn't use the caucus attendance records (which they would have to purchase from the political parties, but don't because of cost considerations) is statistically invalid.

So cheer up John, right now your guy is ahead of Clinton.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

diane — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:20:43 GMT

Vanrueter, dont' take that Rassmuessen too seriously. Mark Penn's partner, Doug Schoen, is probably the one who wrote that as that is his job there now. glenn Greenwald wrote all about it last week.
Also, for those who took exception to my earlier post, there is plenty of information backing up the media likes to pick our nominees and president.
Some in the media, since 2000, have come out about the collective gang up on Al Gore in favor of Bush and slanted it to favor Bush. They were guilty of the myths about Gore with their twisting of facts regarding Gore. All the while ignoring the glaring problems with George and his character.
And they are doing it again with Hillary. They are trashing the other candidates over stupid things while ignoring glaring problems regarding Hillary and her lack of character and judgment and ignoring information that doesn't paint her in the perfect light.
We all know how things turned out the last time the press decided to play god with our elections and I refuse to allow them to do so again without calling them on it and letting them know many democrats know what is going on. There is not going to be a rerun of the Gore fiasco. and a rerun of the press's famously bad favoritism and picking of our candidates and wanting to have a rerun of another disappointing president with a famous last name

First thoughts: Fred's debut

america, america i gave my best to you — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:22:04 GMT

for those who say they have nothing to share, who feel in their hearts there is no hero there though each quiet act of dignity is that which fortifies, the soul of a nation, that will never die. let them say of me that i was one who believed in sharing the blessings i received let me know in my heart when my days are through,

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Warm Apple Pie — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 01:21:08 GMT

The Democrats need a winner, and Hillary will NOT get it done. She will win the party nomination, but will lose the general election. Obama and Edwards don't stand a chance either IMO. Al Gore could win this one in a landslide and is the only person that comes to mind that could coast to victory. His time is running out though, and I predict a Guliani or Thompson victory in 08 unless Al steps up to the plate before the end of October. Something like a Gore/Biden ticket in the general would be a sure victory, and some folks like me who voted for Bush the first time can get a rid of all that regret by giving the vote to the right man this time around. Bush JR has been an utter disapointment, and actually any of the Republican or Democratic candidates would be a far cry better than we have now!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

domenico montanaro — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 01:59:41 GMT

mark murray, hurry home

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Lisa, Tifton, GA — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 03:55:33 GMT

Obama never intended to smackdown Hillary!
His role is to stay No. 2 - and keep as much distance as possible between Edwards and Hillary.
MSNBC is doing their part too.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Alan Srout, Des Moines Iowa — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 06:33:00 GMT

Former Senator Fred Thompson is the only candidate that gets it. He makes decisions based on principles. Principles don’t change. You have to stand for something and not change who you are based on the polls. That is what Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani have done and all of the Democrats do it. Give me a leader that will stand by his principles anyday versus someone that stands for everything.

I know many, many Republicans that will stay home if Rudy Giuliani is the candidate. He does not represent our values as conservatives, and never will. Millionaire Mitt Romney is a Republican-in-name-only (RINO) that simply has everything else and nothing to do. “I guess I’ll just try to buy the presidency”. THE WHITE HOUSE IS NOT FOR SALE!! Conservatives will simply stay home...the Democrats will pick up additional seats in the House and probably get the 60 seats in the Senate they need to completely destroy our country. Nice picture huh?

However, I think Fred Thompson can bring America back together, if that’s even possible. America needs a rebirth of patriotism and honor. Republicans also need a rebirth. President Reagan was our last rebirth and he can never be duplicated. Fred will bring his own down- to-earth common sense to this country and strength back to our party. A little of the good old days of faith, federalism and family would do well for this country. If a conservative runs as a conservative, he will win!

Think of it this way: Eight more years of another Clinton White House? Now, if that’s not a sufficient enough reason to pull together as a party, as a country, and fight this liberal takeover of our government, what is?!

Friends, we are in for the fight of our lives, just as our young men & women are fighting for our freedoms in Iraq and Afghanistan, we must fight for our country right here and now! I truly believe Fred Thompson is the one man who can pull this nation back together! Rudy Giuliani, like Hillary Clinton, will just tear us apart! Putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t change it...

Click thru: https://www.fred08.com/contribute.aspx?RefererID=c637caaa-315c-4b4c-9967-08d864cd0791

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Rick, WS, NC — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:54:44 GMT

Who will it be? Billary v Rudy? Obama v flippin mitt? Any of the matchups will be interesting...cant wait to see the reps explain themselves to 70% of America once they get done killing muslims and trampling on the constitution for their primary voters.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

landon kelsey, houston,tx — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:21:23 GMT

see it for what it is...show business

so enjoy the mess

I love Arnie as gov of California

It makes no difference who gets elected!

They all say whatever gets them the most votes!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

H P Boston — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:31:01 GMT

Mark Thieme, please do not leave the board as you are most enjoyable. There is so much BS and dissension which is always a fact in political discussions.

There are days when I lose my sense of humor when I read the crap people actually believe. When you and Van and Carrie, nuanced, desmond, etc (many more Susan, Amy) post, the light shines. Van's posts are straight facts, I read between the lines of all posts and disregard the BS. BS is everywhere and we can not change the minds?, of bigots and ignorant posters. It is interesting and disturbing to read some of the demented souls that live and breath in our once great country.
We need intelligence and diverse opinions. I have great respect for many of the regular posters on this board. The fact that the trolls come in and flood us with BS is unfortunate but unavoidable. Skip over the crap and converse with the best of our humorous, intelligent non stupid people.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Let's really win — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:08:20 GMT

Arshad is right. Obama is the real change agent here. Do we really want more of the same old, same old? The Clintons, at best, are high on the suspects list of duplicitous crooks. Nothing will rally the Republican and conservative leaning independent voter block more than a Hillary ticket. The best we can hope for is an Obama/Edwards ticket. They inspire. They will bring much needed change. Obama will not resort to the old hateful attacking refrain of "us vs. them" (the "massive right wing attack machine"). O will reach across the aisles. He can unite this country more than any of the other candidates. He is reaching out for the religious vote too and polls show he is most favored by conservative leaning voters among the Democrats. Why? Because he can get things done, keep matters civil, not treat everyone who is against him as an evil nemesis, but can instead find common ground. Most importantly, he will lead well as he inspires people to dream big, put aside the politics of division and personal destruction of the last few decades and rework how American politics is done.

What will you "Hilarities" say if she wins the nomination and goes down in defeat after all that? In an election that is ours to take! (If she does, we'll want all you Clinton voters to come on here and literally beg for mercy for being so naive and big headed as to think this politician could win!) Don't go blaming rigged elections either! It will be all your fault! Face the facts. Hillary will destroy our chances. Stop listening to the Corporate media clones who want Hillary in, and actually think about it for a while. We lost with Kerry because a certain large segment would never vote for someone like him, and again, Hillary is the same sort of loser duplicitous candidate. Wake up people! Get behind Obama and you will see real historic change. The choice is yours: more of the same old corrupt politics and fear/hate mongering or real change and a hope for some semblance of unity in this country!!

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:51:34 GMT

Sierra - I think it is shortsighted of you to continually harp on Clinton for statements which other candidates also make. It also reveals your incredible anti-Hillary bias.

We should be out in a year, according to you. But with all due respect, what sort of access do you have to the pertinent information regarding a responsible withdrawal? What do you REALLY know about what is going on in Iraq?

I wish that we could be out tomorrow, frankly. but that is not going to happen, and I applaud Hillary, Obama, Edwards and the others who refuse to guarantee that we will be out by a certain time. It is irresponsible as an elected official to make promises that may not be able to be kept.

Governor Richardson is the perfect example of this. He wants all troops out within weeks of taking office, despite the fact that doing so would be very risky not only for the security of Iraq but the security of our soldiers as well. But that's what the people want - get out and get out fast. He's pandering, and that's wrong. He cannot deliver on that promise, and I would rather have a candidate that says "Look, I am going to do the best I can to get our troops out of there as quickly and responsibly as possible, but I cannot give you a guarantee that it will be done by a certain date." Because that, Sierra, is an honest response.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

LetsWin — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:55:49 GMT

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:56:28 GMT

Mark: I am all sad-faced at the prospect of you leaving...particularly since I was so swamped with work yesterday I did not get to properly send you off. Perhaps you will reconsider?

First thoughts: Fred's debut

You're an idiot, USA — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:08:58 GMT

OMG I couldn't even read the whole page because so many stupid people have put up emotional comments that aren't based on any fact at all. You all sound like you're crying.

How do any of you actually support Richardson, Edwards, Biden, Dodd or Obama and the idea of pulling all the troops out of iraq? how in the world do you NOT consider military action against Iran a possible inevitability? A country whose leader has openly said he wants to destroy Israel, whose own gov't is known to sponsor terrorism, train insurgency militias and supply advanced weaponry to Hamas, Hezbollah and Al Qaida in Iraq (who've killed US troops)!??

Do you really think that once we leave the middle east the problems and the war wont just follow us back home to the US? For Christ's sake people, it's called a Jihad for a reason!! Just because we leave does NOT mean they'll forget anything ever happened. Oh and by the way, us being over there isn't why they're pissed... they declared a Jihad before the American public even realized what happened on 9/11. Remember, they came to the US to get us in the first place!!

Yes, Hillary is correct to stand strong against terrorism because it threatens our national security... and if you'd don't support the the security of our nation and our population, both at home and abroad... then you my friend are far worse than any candidate running. You may have gone to school, but you're still stupid. Good luck with that.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Jane, Southern Mississippi — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 20:51:02 GMT

Vote Ron Paul. He doesn't promise the moon, but he does face reality. He's honest and straightforward and to the point, as far as I can tell from what I've heard him say. I know the media doesn't see him as a presidential candidate in their crystal ball, but we can vote for whoever we want. I only wish more people would listen to Ron Paul, and not just the media who have already decided on the nominees. WE DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE. Remember this.

First thoughts: Fred's debut

Tom Walsh, Berwyn, PA — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 21:48:31 GMT

Ron Paul is the only hope for turning our country around and enjoying the freedom the founding fathers envisioned. Where is the news coverage of his message and his growing success?