First thoughts: Where few dare to go

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:45:17 GMT

At least it wasn't Clinton. Then it would be a scandal..:)

"Elrick Williams's toddler niece Carlyn may be one of the youngest contributors to this year's presidential campaign. The 2-year-old gave $2,300 to Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.).

So did her sister and brother, Imara, 13, and Ishmael, 9, and her cousins Chan and Alexis, both 13. Altogether, according to newly released campaign finance reports, the extended family of Williams, a wealthy Chicago financier, handed over nearly a dozen checks in March for the maximum allowed under federal law to Obama."

I don't think that this is any different than the Clinton fundraising, "scandals", trumpeted to the high heavens here as proof of her criminality. I didn't think think that as a candidate, she has had any direct oversight over national fundraising nor do I think Obama does in his campaign. So, unlike those who jumped on, and still invoke the Hsu and Chinese fundraising stories as indications of Clinton's character, I will not succumb to the temptation to subject Obama to the same treatment.

They raise tens of millions of dollars, and the competition is intense, with pressure on the campaign's top bundlers to PRODUCE. There is no shortage of those who would LOVE to contribute more than the current maximum, and surrogates like children is one way to try to get around the laws.

While I don't expect those who slammed Clinton repeatedly over the stories about her fundraising to exonerate her based on this news, they should now at least be open to the fact that the candidates aren't directly responsible for every check that comes in to their campaigns.
I don't blame Obama or think he had any knowledge or responsibility for the funds raised from children.

Van

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Dot, Illinois — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:45:28 GMT

"Seriously, this is why some are so cyncial about politicians."

That and a WHOLE LOT MORE!!!!!Pandering, not only to baseball fans but to any particular constituency on any given campaign appearance, amassing obscene amounts of money using questionable means and blatantly skirting campaign finance laws, constantly pointing out the perceived short comings of their opponents instead of telling us their good points, never giving a direct answer to a question, etc. etc.

I have said this before, we need strong, enforceable, campaign financing reform badly in this country. As long as campaigns continue to be all about money, I will be a cynical voter.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

JimS. NYC — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:46:24 GMT

The Clinton marriage has been analyzed, featured on the Sunday talks, debated and talked about more than any single campaign issue. The Guiliani marriages and affairs have barely been mentioned. The whole story of the end of his second marriage from announcement to court order keeping his mistress away from his kids had not even been written. The bias in this post is Unbelievable. How can you say with a straight face that the Clinton marriage hasn't been covered like Giuliani's. That's not balance; it's a blatant lie. People will laugh at this post.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

VL North Carolina — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:49:14 GMT

Where are these polls coming from? Who are a they polling?

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Bee — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:53:08 GMT

Any thing else you have to report? Thank you for your service. We are moving on to the next face.

First, we don't pay attention to national poll. If you have a new poll regarding IOWA, SC, NV and NH let us know.

The more i listen to pundicts that have been wrong 100% of the time the more i get sick. Thank you for your service, we're moving on.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Grace, Ny — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:03:52 GMT

Having fundraisers with an adulter and someone who commits perjury hasn't hurt Hillary raise money or according to you lead in the polls or have you forgot that....

Maybe that's what he should do

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Joyce, SC — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:08:21 GMT

By the way, the campaign got more bad news today in the form of a new Gallup poll, which indicates Oprah's endorsement would technically have a net-negative effect on his campaign.

Then why is everyone so concerned that she will campaign for him...it should just hurt him more and I know that will make you happy. After all polls are always right aren't they? What is this the third or fourth poll on this? I remeber in the spring everyone was saying polls thought Bill Clinton campaignig for Hillary might hurt her...now you guys can't praise the idea enough....

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Lek — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:09:42 GMT

Here is the story you should be covering Main Stream Moron that is out to destroy a candidate we all love.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/10/24/for_obama_support_from_a_kindred_political_spirit/

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Bee — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:11:18 GMT

<To the intrested party>

This is what is happening on the ground. We the people we decide this election. Not the MSM.

When Governor Deval Patrick sent an e-mail to supporters last week announcing his endorsement of Senator Barack Obama of Illinois for president, he got 2,000 messages back offering help.

"That's what he needs," Patrick said in an interview yesterday. "That's what we want to help him bring to New Hampshire. That's what we want to try to inspire in Iowa and elsewhere by example."

That inspiration began last night as Patrick presided over a massive rally for Obama on Boston Common. The event was the culmination of a long courtship of Patrick's endorsement by both Obama, a close friend and kindred political spirit, and Senator Hillary Clinton of New York, whom Patrick knew even before he worked for her husband's administration.

At the rally, which Obama's campaign said drew 9,500 people, Patrick offered a forceful argument for Obama, casting the presidential election as one of historic proportions in which merely a change in party would be insufficient.

"We need a leader who is ready to call in our times for our service, and our sacrifice," Patrick said. "You see, this election is not just about who we want. It's about who we are. I want a president who understands that. I want Barack Obama."

The rally was the latest in a series of huge campaign events for Obama around the country, and it was something of a role reversal for the two men: In the heat of last year's governor's race, Obama headlined several large events for Patrick in Boston.

"I am grateful to Deval, because not only has he stood by me through thick and through thin, but also because he is somebody who has consistently stood for the kinds of politics that I believe in and you believe in and America believes in - the kind of politics that begins with the grass roots," Obama said.

Last night's event underscored the potential value of Patrick's support. Before Patrick and Obama spoke, field workers on Obama's campaign were recruiting people from the crowd to canvass in New Hampshire, even as early as this weekend. And in a measure of Obama's organizational strength, his Boston-area supporters have been receiving text messages, e-mails, and personal phone calls over the past several days urging them to come to the rally.

"I like his energy, I like his lack of being jaded," said Rebecca Devaney, a 28-year-old from Haverhill who works at a media company and says she is still deciding whom to support.

In the interview, Patrick said he sees parallels between Obama's candidacy and his own run for governor. Both he and Obama, Patrick said, faced conventional wisdom that said they could not win.

Patrick said that his specific role in Obama's campaign had not been defined, but that he would campaign as aggressively as he could. He said he recognized, however, that he could not help at the expense of his role as governor.

"I've got a job to do, and I and the rest of the Commonwealth, I think, are sensitive to my paying attention to that job first and foremost," he said.

Patrick insisted that backing Obama was not a choice against Clinton, whose husband tapped him in the 1990s to lead the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division.

"I love her. I think she's great. I think she's run a terrific campaign," Patrick said. "If she's the nominee, I'll work my - I'll work hard for her, and proudly."

He continued, "The decision is not without complexity. But the times are so unique. The challenges are so big."

Just as members of the "Greatest Generation" responded to epic challenges, Patrick said, so, too, must the next president.

"They responded to a call for service and sacrifice, and I think the depth and complexity of our challenges demands that again," he said. "And I think Barack is uniquely capable of making that claim."

Patrick also said it made little sense for Obama to go after Clinton more aggressively, as some supporters and analysts have said he needs to do.

"There's no point bloodying each other up," he said. "Part of the appeal of his campaign and his candidacy is that he is a different kind of candidate and not making all the conventional moves and following all the conventional advice."

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Nancy, NH — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:16:06 GMT

Definitely won't buy essence this month...one reader said it best

Former President Bill Clinton is quite the romantic husband, according to wife Hillary ... " yup, that's where we stopped reading. UGH....

That marriage is the best ad for safe sex there is...

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Cheryl, NH — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:17:50 GMT

Monica says the same thing....cigars anyone!!!

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Garry Snider, Bradenton FL — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:17:52 GMT

Well, one thing is for sure: Democrats don’t seem to care much about the Clinton marriage.

Why should they. Bill and Hillary don't give a crap about it either.

Late at night, and you just know it's true, Chelsea dreams that she was adopted.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

PJ — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:19:45 GMT

While the masses have been mindlessly allowing themselves to be DISTRACTED by trite matters, Bush & Co have been systematically dismantling our Democracy. The courts, academia, the military...don't express any thought contrary...what will it take, Blackwater personnel patrolling your town? We have to stop allowing ourselves to be distracted. All you values voters, while you were lulled into feeling self righteous about your "values"...they were undermining you too. Please don't be fooled again.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:27:12 GMT

LOL Nancy......

Rudy has been married three times
Hillary only once (and we all know why)

The media is more fascinated with the Clinton marriage from day one, mainly because it offers everything a soap opera or a miniseries has to offer:

Sex
Greed
Power
Murder

Maybe if the Clinton's were more of a normal couple, then maybe the media wouldn't pay that much attention.

But i think the Monica and the white house tryst and the cigars in the wrong place and affairs with other women opens up the Clinton's world for all to see.

Considering that women read or watch a lot of soap operas and romance books and liberal women especially are so gullible to fall for a man like Clinton, it is almost a fact that liberal women are voting more for her husband then they are for his wife.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

juan,ft lauderdale,fl — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:27:32 GMT

Democrats/Progressives do not care about Clinton's marriage past or present difficulties or anybody else for that matter. It only seems to be the Republican's (we know how many marriages they gone through) and so-called moral voters that care about it because they are hypocrits and live in glass houses.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:31:45 GMT

Here is the real story we're following in New Hampshire.

Bee (Sent Wednesday, October 24, 2007 10:15 AM)

Bee- the real story is the incredible amount of hypocrisy shown here, by the very people, you in particular, now that the Hsu (my pun intended) is on the other foot.

What would Bee say if on the day a negative fundraising story came out about the Clinton, and someone her supporters claimed that the real story that SHOULD be covered is an endorsement?

Van

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:37:23 GMT

The nastiness almost matches the hypocrisy today.

It is obvious that there is a double-standard at work here.

It's really amusing, actually. This should be a fun day on the board.

Van

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

pat huntington ny — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:37:59 GMT

After learning that Obama is associating with someone like McClurkin, even after the outcry from my fellow community with regard to his anti-gay position, any remote possibility I would support this guy just flew out the window. If the case were reversed, and Hillary had a concert where someone associated with the KKK was speaking, you sure bet there would be outrage. Why there isn't any on this issue against Obama bespeaks of the rampant homophobia running in this country. To hell with him...I'm sticking with Hillary.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Marbw — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:39:30 GMT

I personally do not care about the C;iton's marraige. She could have mirrored ceiling and swinging from the chandelier for all I care. What I care about are the issues. When will she drop out of this race, so that a true progressive Dem (B Obama)can lead this country(and our party) back from the abyss.
turn the page

Obama08

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Gloria Minard, Toledo, Ohio — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:41:26 GMT

How exactly are any of these issues relevant to the presidency?! Who cares which team they are rooting for in the World Series. Don't get me wrong, I watched it, but really how does what team they support have any impact on how they will RUN A COUNTRY?

Also, if I hear one more word about Oprah in relation to politics, I will tear out my eardrums! Is she a politician? Do her views count for anything when it comes to foreign policiy or government spending? NO!

Another point, why does it matter whether or not the Clinton's marriage is strong? That's right, it doesn't! As long as their personal lives don't interfer with their ability to do the job, it doesn't matter.

I'm sick and tired of hearing a bunch of bologna when it comes to the candidates. I want to hear about some plans for our country's future. What are they going to do about the healthcare crisis? What is their plan for withdrawal from Iraq (or do they even have one)? For Christ sakes! Give me some reporting with integrity, this reads like a tabloid!

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Sigmund, Baby somewhere in Vienna (not the sausage, dude) — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:46:11 GMT

PJ, this is your psychiatrist calling. Please come into the office as soon as possible as it appears we need to adjust your medications. Also, do not focus on all those little voices you hear; we shall take care of them in four or five intensive sessions. If that doesn't help relieve the stresses you feel, we always have electroconvulsive therapy to fry your sorry a**.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Jennifer, Concord, NH — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:47:14 GMT

Any relationship does take work, however, a woman who stays with a man who cheated on her more than once is a fool, he will certainly do it again. People don''t change. A woman, such as this, has no respect for herself, she uses a man to get what wants and to be in a political position, which is sickening.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Bee — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:47:24 GMT

Van,

I am not intrested in your washington story. The real story here in NH is all about Patrik and Obama. I am going to post the video in a minute.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Hillaryhater America — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:47:38 GMT

Chuck Todd: the media has covered hillary clinton, from every angle, on my god, my sides are splitting from laughter on this massive lie lmao

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Crystal (Time for change) — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:49:54 GMT

Pat (Huntington NY),

Donnie McClurkin has his views on homosexuality based on his own struggles with it. He is not "anti-gay" so please don't misconstrue anything. YOu wouldn't have supported Obama anyway so let's just be honest and I guess this means that you won't be supporting Senator Clinton either b/c just as another poster distinctly pointed out yesterday,

"Hillary Clinton has been endorsed by Rev. Harold Mayberry, who’s “preached against homosexuality.”

So please let's just tell the truth, shame the devil on this one!!!

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Bee — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:50:03 GMT

Van

How about this quote?

"For once, I want a campaign that’s not about the candidate, but about us.

Not about a resumé, but about character. Not about connections or convenience, but about conviction. Not about smearing the competition, but about lifting us all up. Not about the right and the left, but about right and wrong. Not about yesterday, but about tomorrow.

I don’t care whether the next president has experience in the White House. I care whether he understands life in your house.

I don’t care whether the next president has already met foreign heads of state. I care whether he knows something about how people live and think in distant cities and villages and can remember that our actions affect them, too.

I don’t care whether the next president is the first black president or the first woman president or the first whatever, to tell you the truth. I care that the next president has moral courage, a political backbone, the humility to admit what he doesn’t know, and the wisdom to learn from others"....Devon Patrik

More foot soldier in NH coming from great state of MA.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Bee — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:53:01 GMT

Here is another news for those that didn't make it to the event.

‘A Principled Sports Fan’
By Jeff Zeleny

BOSTON – Senator Barack Obama is waking up in Boston today, though he’s not sticking around long enough for Game 1 of the World Series tonight.
But in a campaign appearance last night at Boston Common, Mr. Obama congratulated Red Sox nation before taking pains to purposefully not pander to the city’s baseball fans.
When he declared, “I am a White Sox fan,” the audience of several thousand people playfully booed and groaned. And that, of course, provided the entrée to his punch line.
“You don’t want somebody who pretends to be a Red Sox fan as president of the United States,” Mr. Obama said. “You want somebody who is a principled sports fan. Even when his team is losing, he still stands up for them.”
With baseball season drawing to a close, time is running out for Mr. Obama to capitalize on a moment from a presidential debate late last month in New Hampshire: Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton suggesting she would “alternate sides” between the New York Yankees and the Chicago Cubs if they faced one another in the series. (That scenario, not surprisingly, did not occur, so Mrs. Clinton was sparred.)
Mr. Obama’s reference to baseball last night was not the first time he has sought to get a little mileage out of Mrs. Clinton’s less-than-declarative answer about her team loyalties. Speaking to a giant outdoor rally in New York City on Sept. 26, he declared: “Even your senator from New York wasn’t clear about the Yankees. I know who I’m rooting for!”
Earlier yesterday, Rudolph W. Giuliani, arguably one of the New York Yankees most famous fans, told a crowd in New Hampshire, “I will be rooting for the Red Sox.”
Judging the applause Mr. Obama received – before Yankees fans last month and Red Sox loyalists last night – it seemed to be a sentiment the rival sports fans could agree upon.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Dot, Illinois — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:53:57 GMT

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. I would take time to respond to you but my hands are sticky from the bonbons I'm eating, then I have to give my nails a second coat, which I plan to do right after I find out who killed Tiffany's boyfriend, because they are saying it was Tiffany and she has amnesia so she can't remember, but I really think it was her boyfriend's exwife's boyfriend. So I'll answer you when I get a chance.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Sierra, SF — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:55:09 GMT

'...Seriously, this is why some are so cynical about politicians…..'

Seriously, this is why some are so cynical about the info-tainment industry !!
Why does First Read even include this crap ?

Van: '...Bee- the real story is the incredible amount of hypocrisy shown here, by the very people, you in particular, now that the Hsu (my pun intended) is on the other foot...'

SORRY !! NO SALE !!
Norman Hsu was an important part of the CLinton organization.
He was a HillRaiser
Did any HillRaiser raise more money ?
Bill Clinton introduced Norman Hsu as 'my good friend Norman Hsu' at Kennedy Center.

Was that 2 year old a fugitive from justice who swindled investors out of their money ?

this has been a continuing problem for the Clintons.
Corruption has been bubbling around them for years.....
What about Peter Paul ?

This is like Bush criticcizing the Democrats for over spending on the SCHIP program while squandering billions on Iraq....

PS
Thanks again, First Read
fluff stories on the Clintons....
and negative stories on Obama .....
'...this is why some are so cynical about...'

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:56:47 GMT

Van: If your allegations about the Obama contributions are found to be true (and I have no reason to doubt that he has some over-enthusiastic contributors who don't understand the intent of law on limitations on donations), I am sure that the campaign will return these contributions.

The difference between the two campaigns is the degree to which these irregularities occur and what the 'irregular donors' hope to accomplish with these donations. Unfortunately for Mrs. Clinton, she and her husband have a long history, well etched into the minds of American voters of influence peddling. Therefore her donations are under closer scrutiny.

The Chinatown scandal demands closer investigation to see if this represents the use of sham donors to allow large amts. of foreign business money to be infused into her campaign. Unlike the editors of this post, I don't think that Hillary is
teflon-coated (an observation that, in any case, would not be a complement, since it implies that she is able to weasle out of bad accusations). It is because of her (and her husband's) old style patronage politics, that these accusations of improper contributions ring so true.

If you love this country and I suppose that you do, the goal is to eliminate this type of influence peddling as it does much to weaken the ability of how government is best able to offer good services to the people. Hillary just seems to be more of the same old sh*t and I want change.

Hillary is obtuse in her proposals about the war and in her approach to foreign policy in general. She is pandering in her 'alms to the poor' solutions to socio-economic disparity. In all honesty, unlike Obama, her goal seems to be self-aggrandizement and I, like many here, find that to be offensive.

As a friend of mine said yesterday (a 60 year old curmudgeon of an ER doctor, who none-the-less is a dyed in wool Democrat), "if Obama doesn't get the nomination, I might as well just vote Republican or sit the whole thing out." I replied,
"my sentiments exactly."
Obama '08

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:56:54 GMT

Oh Hillary has her Anti-gay moment as well......

Hillary celebrates endorsement of anti-gay Reverend who compared ...Hillary celebrates endorsement of anti-gay Reverend who compared ... Hillary Clinton Continues Push for Black Vote by Meeting with Bay Area Leaders ...
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3634146 - 50k - Cached - Similar pages

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:58:33 GMT

And so the Clintons are still together, big deal. And he had an affair and she forgave him, big deal. Get over it. But lets talk about Rudy and all of his marriages shall we? I havent heard too much yet.And after awhile I'll say who cares.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Grace, NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:00:21 GMT

Pat...I see it doesn't seem to matter to you that Hillary was endorsed by Rev Mayberry who compared Gays to theives....No take that back Celebrated being endorsed by him...this is what I mean by the hypocrisy in the Clinton camp and much of this hooplah is drumed up outrage by Clinton supporters

Hillary celebrates endorsement of anti-gay Reverend who compared homosexuality to thievery

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3634146

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:01:20 GMT

It seems to be a real sickness with rebumblekins who are so focused on the Clintons marriage. Get your minds out of their bedroom and talk issues people. Throwing rocks at these two is so easy when you hide from the peccadillos of your own party. Bill and Hillarey decided to stay together, get over it.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:02:52 GMT

Van,

I am not intrested in your washington story. The real story here in NH is all about Patrik and Obama. I am going to post the video in a minute.

Bee (Sent Wednesday, October 24, 2007 10:47 AM)

No Bee, today's story is all about the DOUBLE-Standard shown by you and everyone else here who are blatant in their hypocrisy.

Would you like to review the things you posted about the Clinton on this topic and what you said it means about her character? Why aren't you holding your candidate to the same standard? Why are you ignoring the story and pushing some endorsement instead?
It's called Hypocrisy, Bee, and so far that's the story of the day here...

Van

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Bee — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:12:32 GMT

Van is out to get the talking point for the day.

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vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:16:40 GMT

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:16:52 GMT

I listened to Sean Hannity on the radio yesterday...

His continuing question: "What has Hillary Clinton done to deserve being President of the United States?" got some great answers from people......

She's over 35
She's not a felon
She's a woman
She's married to Bill
She's a woman
She's staying in her marriage

God, what great answers......
doesn't answer the question
but shows what the liberal woman mindset is.....

Also he asks "Name three accomplishments Hillary has gotten done in the Senate"........

in 90 minutes of driving yesterday, no one could come up with an answer other then "she's a woman"

Pretty sad.....

Maybe some of you should call the show and tell him what great things Hillary has accomplished......

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Daniel — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:19:18 GMT

In a major blow to Dems, Kerrey is NOT running for Senate in Nebraska:
http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/10/huge-blow-to-senate-democrats-bob.html

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

joe@msn.com — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:21:19 GMT

This is what I had to say to MSNBC's FIRST READ:

Dear Domenico,

You must be busy. I have news for you:

OBAMA IN BOSTON ADDRESSES 9,500

THE HONORABLE GOVERNOR Deval Patrick said:

"For once, I want a campaign that’s not about the candidate, but about us.

Not about a resumé, but about character. Not about connections or convenience, but about conviction. Not about smearing the competition, but about lifting us all up. Not about the right and the left, but about right and wrong. Not about yesterday, but about tomorrow.

I don’t care whether the next president has experience in the White House. I care whether he understands life in your house.

I don’t care whether the next president has already met foreign heads of state. I care whether he knows something about how people live and think in distant cities and villages and can remember that our actions affect them, too.

I don’t care whether the next president is the first black president or the first woman president or the first whatever, to tell you the truth. I care that the next president has moral courage, a political backbone, the humility to admit what he doesn’t know, and the wisdom to learn from others".

(I know you guys are busy reporting "Hillary campaigns in Fresno" so you couldn't get the time to report "Obama campaigns in Boston"...and BTW draws 9,500)

We will gladly help you with reporting even though it is a little unfair.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:22:45 GMT

I listened to Sean Hannity on the radio yesterday...
jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:16 AM)

Yeah, and EVERY day. That's where most of your opinions and thoughts come directly from...

Pretty sad...

Van

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Bee — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:28:05 GMT

Jerry,

That is the reason i can't still figure out.

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:29:03 GMT

Considering a lot of liberal women seemed to approved of Bill Clinton and where he keeps his cigars, one has to wonder if this election is more about him then her. It goes to show how Hillary just stayed married so she could use the Clinton name to run for the White House. That is the only thing she has to run on.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Bee — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:29:26 GMT

Van,

You still haven't reponded to my news. What do you have to say to Governor Patrick speech.

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FDR, Hunt Valley, MD — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:34:50 GMT

What really disappoints me with the McClurkin story is that Obama has asked his supporters to demand the firing of Tanner for his ignorant statements. These are 2 equally ignorant individuals who perpetuate falacies. However, Obama seems to be trying to score points with African-Americans by demanding Tanner be fired. He sure doesn't seem concerned in offending the LGBT community. I have been a long-time Obama admirer and supporter, but I find his handling of this indicative that he's just another politician trying to get elected. I was hoping for something more. If presidential elections have come down to who runs the best campaign, just as trials are about who argues the better case, then Hilary wins.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:39:55 GMT

His continuing question: "What has Hillary Clinton done to deserve being President of the United States?"

Can you name them Van?

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H P Boston — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:42:17 GMT

Hey Obama can not lose now, he is running the same campaign as Deval did in Massachusetts.
It worked for him!
I voted for him because he is a good looking black man. The Massachusetts legislators are giving him a very bad time. It is a stalemate on the scale of our
Washington DC Congress. Not much happening!

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

H P Boston — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:48:32 GMT

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:50:58 GMT

Van:

I used to listen to Air America so I could listen to the other side......

However the radio station here could make more money if they played mexican music then hot air........

By the way, did they ever catch the ring wing nutjobs that jumped Randi Rhodes? (snicker)

I do miss listening to Air America though.....
GREAT comedy, specially from John Elliot using the F word on the radio from time to time.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:52:37 GMT

Jerry doesn't have to listen to Sean, he is Sean. I don't even have to scroll down to see who sent the post anymore, I can tell it's Jerry with the first three words. Get a new name Jerry give us something to think about when you post. You are sooooooo predictable or maybe just a Di#k. Everytime I read you I get happy you all have nothing important to add to the conversation, just like your party.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Michael, Los Angeles CA — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:53:45 GMT

Do Bee and Van work for a campaign? How do they have this much time to reply to a First Read post???

Folks look at the record - Clinton and Obama have almost the exact voting record in the senate. Why would people suggest that there is a difference? ACTIONS my friends speak louder than words.

And Obama's actions don't show a "New" way of Washington...

And to be critical of Clinton's vote on Iran (and to suggest she is letting Bush start another War) is sort of strange since he couldn't even have the JUDGEMENT to go and vote against it... If it was such an important vote - why didn't he vote or better yet show some leadership to build a group to oppose it. See it's about actions not just words...

Keep hoping folks that some magical candidate is going to come and CHANGE washington... Washington is the way it is because it is a complete reflection of the American Public...

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Crystal (Time for change) — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:57:20 GMT

FDR, Hunt Valley, MD---please you were in no way a supporter of Obama to start out with. Your argument is not valid, McClurkin is NOT anti-gay, he simply says what he been through in life how he has changed and how change is possible, never bashes any gay person, so please. John Tanner came right out and said that black women die anyway, what the hell? And Tanner is in a position where his racist thoughts WILL undoubtedly affect his decision making when it comes to voters. McClurkin's feelings only affect McClurkin!!!!

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

PJ — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:57:48 GMT

Dear "Sigmund", thanks very much for your concern over my mental health, doing just fine thanks. My point about people being distracted from the truly germaine issues is proved by reading through this thread, so much bickering about truly irrelevant trivia. With regards to the current administration's errosions of our freedoms, the facts are there for rational thinking people.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

HOT DAM — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:06:00 GMT

j thinks people who call in to seamy are smart enough to cross the street. NOT! j hardly ever crosses the street unless his mom is there to help him.
All of seany calls are screened , only the stupid may apply.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:07:28 GMT

Van: It is what it is. The Clintons will only reap what they have sown. All the happy talk won't erase past errant behavior. We'll see how Iowa and subsequent primary events play out. I feel that Iowa will be a big surprise for you and NH with its 45% independents, will hand your candidate a death knell. South Carolina, I expect, will then help to fell the Clinton inevitability propaganda.

Who knows? Maybe all of the polls you cite, will bear you out and make you a happy guy but it will leave many of us disgusted and disenfranchised.

And Jerry, I don't know why you complain so much, she just one of your team.
Obama '08

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

H P Boston — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:11:40 GMT

Here, here Michael, Los Angles....You are so on the mark! Hard to get any action, the teams MUST win.
The Washington World is just another ballgame!
Who has the best batter, the star pitcher, who can run with the ball and carry the team. No I in team!

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:18:03 GMT

Hillary will win and its gonna be a LANDSLIDE!! Just watch.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:23:51 GMT

Countdown to Iowa: 71 days
Countdown to New Hampshire: 76 days

"In the race for the Democratic Presidential Nomination, little has changed. Clinton attracts 46% support and continues to enjoy a commanding lead over Barack Obama, who earns the vote from 19%. John Edwards attracts 15%. Delaware Senator Joe Biden is supported by 4% and no other candidate attracts more than 3% support from Likely Democratic Primary Voters (see recent daily numbers). A Rasmussen Reports analysis this week noted that the only bad numbers for Clinton these days can be found on the calendar."

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/daily_presidential_tracking_poll__1

NINETEEN percent.

Van

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Bee — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:37:03 GMT

I have been expecting your poll number for the day. Anything else?

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Mary Ellers, San Francisco,Ca. — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:39:59 GMT

OK IT'S TRUE...hillaryclinton.com

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Chuck in Denver, Colorado — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:46:14 GMT

All of the leading candidates have to contend with the media's delight in catching perceived glitches in their campaigns. The MSM would rather focus on these "mistakes" rather than focus on candidates' positions on the important issues and the actions they intend to take if elected.

Currently, Barack Obama may be the target of the worst of this scrutiny, perhaps because of his (perceived) inexperience. On the other hand, it seems that the Obama campaign's lack of foresight and planning may be leading to too many incidents (such as the McClurkin controversy or Obama's failure to participate in the AARP debate) that become a distraction from the candidate's essential messages.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Nicole — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:49:20 GMT

Question for Clinton supporters?

1) I'm not accepting any PAC money. Your husband never took PAC $ when he ran in '92 & '96. Why are'nt you doing the same thing?

2)If youdon't like Bush's war, why did you tell the NYT on March 14th that you would keep American Soldier in Iraq when you're POTUS? How long do you plan on keeping the troops in Iraq?

3)Your healthcare proposal will leave alone those who are happy with their current insurance. But if you provide health benefits for close to 50 million new people, you generate huge new demand for medical care without any increase in the supply of doctors, nurses or and prices will go through the roof. Won’t that force you to institute cost controls by limiting the care those now on health insurance can receive?

4)After all the bad experiences with Johnnie Chung and Charlie Trie and their campaign donations in '96, why were you not more careful in vetting the donations generated by Norman Hsu? Didn’t you learn your lesson back then?

5)When you found that you had to return almost $1,000,000 to donors bundled by Hsu, you said you would be more vigilant in examining the backgrounds of donors. Why didn’t you come to that conclusion before the Hsu scandal?

6) What experience do you have that makes you qualified to be POTUS? Being FLOTUS doesn't count. After all, what do you have ot brag about during those years? A health care policy? Losing control of Congress? Writing a book? TRavelingthe world at taxpayer expense? being a carpetbagger to the people of New york?

7)What is more important-defeating the right wing machine or defeating Al qaeda

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

KENN — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:50:18 GMT

jERRY YOU SHOULD LOVE WHAT bUSH HAS DONE FOR YOU AND YOUR PUCKER FRIENDS AFTER 8 YEARS HE LEFT YOU WITH NO REPLACEMENT AND A WAR WITH NO END ONLY PROGRESS A PARTY IN SHAMBLES YOU WILL NEVER RECOVER FROM,HAVE A NICE DAY.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Susan, NC via LA — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:50:28 GMT

Doesn't Teflon cause cancer?

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:50:32 GMT

**** N E W S A L E R T **** Bush signs disaster legeslation, for his own administration.No veto planned at this time. Please stay tuned for further information. That is all for now, we return you to your regurlarly scheduled day.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Crystal (Time for change) — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:58:27 GMT

Van-thank for posting the polls. But the reason why i think they are not really accurate it is among likely democratic caucus goers, and I think that Obama will ignite people who haven't previous participated in caucuses to come out. I know many of my friends and family members have taken the day off on that day and none of them have participated in the past. So while I appreciate your posts of the poll, it really doesn't mean anything. Obama attracts a younger audience, and when they really have it on their mind to do something, they do it!! I think they will come out and it will make a HUGE difference!!!

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:06:06 GMT

Gee Van, I guess your citings are put up to make the pitiful anti-Hillary Democrats real happy that she is apparently steam-rolling her way to the Democratic nomination. Watch it! You just
re-enforce what disgusts us anti-Hillary people the most; we just hate how her propaganda machine (and complicit news media and the hopeful Republicans) implies that the race is over before the votes have been cast.

Once again, I laugh at your idol worship of these aggregate polls. The whole nominating process was not meant to be structured as a single point in time, so that lesser known candidates might have a means to gather some strength (although, again the Hillary machine has tried to re-structure the process so that her early weakness wouldn't lead to a snowballing of strength of any of the opposition candidates).

Your inevitability citings will disgust many of us if they turn out to be true because it means that the process is all a pre-determined sham; a real negation of the democratic process.

If you're right, it would be another nail in the coffin of an open election; in the election stealing tradition of GWB - where might makes right, where once again, power brokers call the shots. God, I hope you're wrong, if for no other reason than it would restore my faith in the process.
Obama '08

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

YVETTE P, MONTGOMERY ALABAMA — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:10:50 GMT

WHY IS IT THAT EVERYTIME OBAMA IS CALLED OUT FOR DOING SOMETHING WRONG OR THE APPEARANCE OF SOMETHING WAS DONE WRONG THAT HILLARY NAME IS EVOKED. HILLARY HAS HER OWN PROBLEMS TRUE BUT WHEN OBAMA HAS HIS LET IT BE HIS PROBLEM

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Ricardo in California — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:17:01 GMT

So, Giuliani hired a Catholic priest after the priest was accused of sexually molesting teen age boys. Can the GOP be that stupid .. I guess so just look at GWB. Maybe the GOP should start a Craig/Foley ticket. Besides isn't their big platform "No child left behind"

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

kenn — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:17:28 GMT

So sorry Jerry you must feel the pain of not one but two stations in philly picking up air america dont you hate ,well of course you do,how libs just wont go away and repuckers just keep fing things like Iraq up.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Bee — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:23:14 GMT

Here is an intresting perspective regarding the Netroot making noise about Obama's stand on Mcclukin.
-----------------------------------------------------

I've also been constantly amazed at the "liberal" blogosphere's treatment of Obama. They endorse Edwards, a Dixiecrat whose voting record earned him the high mark of 32% from environmental defense groups to Obama's 100%; Edwards, whose experience and legislation in domestic and foreign policy isn't half of Obama's, who was a civil rights/constitutional law expert and attorney and elected to the state then U.S. Senate. (Edwards: lawyer, Senator one term, no major legislation, voted for Iraq War.) Now it's Dodd they're calling the go-to guy??!!

The liberal blogosphere is making itself more irrelevant this campaign season instead of more influential. Many are playing the old political games, forming PACs, which Obama won't take a dime from, and 527s, which Obama discourages all supporters from joining so there aren't smear ads put out against opponents "on his behalf" - don't do him any favors, says he.

Plain and simple: They don't fund or control Obama, Obama does not seek their undying favor, they are not the center of his political universe. Believe it or not, there are millions of people still without computers and/or internet access in the U.S., and many who have access never, ever visit a "liberal" political blog or read online news from MSM beyond the sports and weather and local news.

"Liberal" bloggers don't reach out to the elderly, or to people of color, and they still speak about the LGBT population as if it's one monolithic population - all white! It's not! Black, Asian, Latino LGBT folks deal with homophobes in the family every day, just as much as poor white LGBT folks do. If they're religious they go to intolerant churches, synogogues or mosques just for the fellowship of fellow believers, despite the vitriol they are subjected to. When there are enough of them, they form their own places of worship and tolerance.

Obama's church is one of those denominations that is open and accepting of all worshippers, gay or straight, black or white or Latino or Asian or Native American. Here in the California Bay Area, there is a church from Obama's denomination that is led by a black lesbian pastor, and has the only transgender gospel choir in the nation!

Tolerance increases with education, which increases with money or some lucky opportunities, that's just a fact.

Obama will address liberals' issues better and more honestly and directly than anyone, beholden to no one. They just don't seem to want a black man to be president - it's beyond me. I've never seen primarily white liberals (who predominate in those blogs) ignore such a stellar civil rights activist and attorney, constitutional law professor [qualified for the Supreme Court], grassroots activist, black candidate with a legislative, never mind environmental record like Obama's - not that we've ever had a candidate like that before.

Many of the "liberal" bloggers don't even stick to their professed liberal values. They say they'll vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination - as if she weren't the #1 recipient of lobbyist/PAC/527 dollars, and as if nominations drop into anyone's lap!

They don't work for a candidate in any way but blogging. Going door-to-door, doing outreach, volunteering, addressing the hundreds of issues all different people care about, face-to-face, that's really working for a candidate.

I think lots of these bloggers would freak out at walking out among different people with different values and beliefs to register voters and promote their candidate. That's why Dean lost; they thought they could just break away from their monitors at the last minute and yell their message out to people with very different lifestyles and win!

It's what I'm most grateful for with Obama - after reading his Audacity of Hope, I don't compartmentalize people by physical/ideological/religious identities anymore. I don't police what others should think, feel anymore. I'll have a discussion with anyone now and almost always find some common ground. I've made more progress getting "traditional" opposition to see my side than I ever made by rejecting, ridiculing and insulting people for their beliefs, and I see them as human beings again, not as categories.

Another poster here spoke the truth; it's like the bloggers are getting to be more and more like MSM; forment conflict with incendiary headlines to increase readership. The liberal blogosphere dumbs down readers/viewers/listeners just like MSM, it promotes rancor and shouting matches like MSM, and does nothing to get our democracy functioning to solve real problems.

By VCubed

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Bee — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:24:52 GMT

Folks,

Washingpost blog is more interesting. I think i am going to shift my allegiance

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:26:04 GMT

and why do I care about Philly?????

After all.........

According to Reuters

Philadelphia is home to the least attractive people in the United States, a survey of visitors and residents showed on Friday. The city of more than 1.5 million people was also found to be among the least stylish, least active, least friendly and least worldly, according to the “America’s Favourite Cities” survey by Travel & Leisure magazine and CNN Headline News.

like I said....
Why do i care about Philly?

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Just the facts — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:30:34 GMT

Ok Jerry:
(1) Senator Clinton worked with Senator Schumer to secure $21.4 billion in funding to assist clean up and recovery, to provide health tracking for first responders and volunteers at Ground Zero, and to create grants for redevelopment.
(2) In 2005, Clinton issued two studies that examined the disbursement of federal homeland security funds to local communities and first responders.
(3) Clinton has used her membership on the Armed Services Committee to take a strong position in favor of U.S. military action in Afghanistan –– with the additional benefit that it greatly improved the lives of women in that country, who had suffered terribly under the rule of the Taliban
(4) Senator Clinton also became a national advocate for retaining and improving health and other benefits for veterans.
(5) Clinton has pressed for education, labor, and technology infrastructure programs to assist economic development in upstate New York and similar regions. For example, in 2003, Clinton solicited offshoring firm Tata Consultancy Services to set up shop in economically beleaguered Buffalo, New York.
(6) In 2004, Clinton co-founded and became the co-chair of the U.S. Senate India Caucus with the encouragement and aid of the USINPAC Political Action Committee.
(7) In 2005, Clinton co-sponsored with Senator Lindsey Graham the AMTAC proposal regarding incentives and rewards for completely domestic American manufacturing companies

P.S. 75% of all divorces in America are filed by the woman. (I don’t have the data, but I’d bet money that 75% of those women are democrats - more likely to have an independent source of income)

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Ricardo in California — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:35:35 GMT

Why Jerry you shouldn't be such a slave to stlye and fashion ..there are more important things to worry about....

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

H P Boston — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:41:58 GMT

Bee promises, promises you sound like a politician. Go with hope, peace and levity. Washington post blog? I thought it was the Times? So many blogs, so little time!
Mmmm a promise or a threat? Is your work here complete, time to blow up some other blog?

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

shawn, Norway — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:01:33 GMT

its sad to read statements on here, to see how americans see politics, so many countries in the world has had female leaders but that will never happen in AMERICA. You guys tell other countries in the world about eqaulity but half of it u do not practice,I think that hillary is brave to take a chance and run for president i do not see any other woman stepping up do u? What does it matter she is still married to her husband or did u forget better or for worst and besides, she has nothing to be ashamed of it was monica who need the money, she new he was married( see how women stab each other). Americans are silly, we the rest of the world listen to whats going on and here in europe they laugh at u guys, come on now, people on here saying she stayed married to run for president come on. No wonder bush is president i understand your thinking now, see where the country is going , the us dollar is worth nothing now and u thinking about peoples personal lives to run a country. look who u had for president, the man could not even speak properly but you guys voted him in twice! ok then. Wake up America maybe she might be just wat u need, stop living in the past, and all these men talking shit if i was the wives, girlfriends wat ever they would be gone( its a shame that they can not be men and say it that they would not vote for her because she is a woman). Welcome to America. Wake up people.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:08:48 GMT

Bee:
You always write well but this last post was moving. Obama really is a personification of what this country is about. He makes us realize that all humans should be encouraged to manifest the greatness that is in them and from that contribution we will all benefit. Need I restate the obvious? Not since JFK has there been such an inspirational candidate for the presidency.
Obama '08

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Nick, Riverside, CA — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:17:38 GMT

I am sick of both redumblicans and ditzocrats. I am a fiscally conservative, socially liberal individual, so i used to like Rudy, until he started catering more to the far right. And i don't like any of the democrates since most of them would like to steer this country closer to a socialist economy. I live in the USA, if i wanted to live in a more socialist economy i would move to Canadia.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:20:12 GMT

Just the facts.....

Let's take these in order.....

1. Where is the link for this story? I googled and found nothing.
2,3,4. She couldn't do it by herself?
5. Were those earmarks like the $1 million earmark for the hippie billionaire?
6. Senate India caucus....I see where the Clinton's and India and INFOUSA all mixes in nicely.....
7. That is funny....

In other words, she has not had any legislation or her own work signed into law.......

Gotta do better then that.......

Now, take all this info and educate Sean hannity so he doesn't get the "because she's a woman" dribble...

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Richard, Washington State — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:34:45 GMT

Based on Just the Facts, Hillary Clinton does about one thing a year.

I'm sure the list wasn't complete, but this was just a superficial cheap shot.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

watcher — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:39:15 GMT

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:40:21 GMT

Poor Mitt, he can't get a break, that's the why the political ball rolls for the politically convenient candidate.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

watcher 2 — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:48:49 GMT

Notice how van hardly ever gives another poster a compliment?

Notice that van only reads posts with his name in them or posts criticizing Clinton?

Notice that van is paranoid?

We'll be watching.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

H P Boston — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:51:59 GMT

Watcher, What a friend I have in Jesus!
Mark used to be his friend but all of a sudden Van was FOS. We left the love fest of the FOD.
It has been a bumpy journey , to what end I can only ponder.
Yea though I walk through the election of '08 I will fear much evil, it is everywhere.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Watcher 3 — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:53:38 GMT

Yes. We will. We are.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Paul Robinson, Fayetteville AR — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:55:02 GMT

(5) Clinton has pressed for education, labor, and technology infrastructure programs to assist economic development in upstate New York and similar regions.

Hillary did the same thing for education when the hubbie was the gov in Arkansas. She took Arkansas from 40th in nation in education to 48th. You really have to work hard to generate that big of a move.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Watcher 4 — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:01:14 GMT

HP, Friend to the Friendless. Good man.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Crystal (Time for change) — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:01:36 GMT

Jerry you are sometimes too funny!!

Jerry wrote..

"Let's take these in order.....

1. Where is the link for this story? I googled and found nothing.
2,3,4. She couldn't do it by herself?
5. Were those earmarks like the $1 million earmark for the hippie billionaire?
6. Senate India caucus....I see where the Clinton's and India and INFOUSA all mixes in nicely.....
7. That is funny....

In other words, she has not had any legislation or her own work signed into law....... ""

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:28:37 GMT

Shawn,Norway:
You are correct in implying that our society is backwards, still puritanical, a bit provincial, but we are trying. And, most importantly, we don't want to mark milestones for symbolic reasons alone. I am a feminist (I have 4 daughters and encourage all of them to accomplish whatever they can - as I do my 2 sons) but I will not vote for a candidate just to break a mold. Hillary is unacceptable because of her unprincipled politics and because her forays in foreign policy promise to continue what this administration has pursued for the last 5 years (you guys in 'old Europe' [I wonder if Rumsfeld considers Norway part of 'old Europe'] haven't much approved of that foreign policy, have you?). I will vote for a candidate, man or woman, who will lead this country in a direction that I consider to best help us solve our problems and help us to be part of the solution of the world's problems, as well. From my standpoint that is Barack Obama and not Hillary Clinton.
Obama '08

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:34:27 GMT

Notice how van can not give a civil response? How he always insults those who question him?

Notice how van demands "proof" of others, but ignores those who demand proof of him?

Notice how HP is his only friend? Hmmm

watcher (Sent Wednesday, October 24, 2007 2:39 PM)

Notice how van hardly ever gives another poster a compliment?

Notice that van only reads posts with his name in them or posts criticizing Clinton?

Notice that van is paranoid?

We'll be watching.

watcher 2 (Sent Wednesday, October 24, 2007 2:48 PM)

Remember what I said Mark. I'm giving you a pass on this because it is so sad that I feel bad for you.
No one else is on here making personal attacks, only you. Please stop. I don't want you to feel any more humiliated than you already must be.

Van

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

H P Boston — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:48:23 GMT

Watcher 4, GOOD WOMAN! You should be watching better than that.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

LonewackoDotCom, L.A. CA — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:48:29 GMT

It'd be great if the MSM would instead spend their time looking into Clinton's minimum wage donors, or the huge flaws in her policies (as well as the policies of the other front-runners). Illegal immigration is a huge issue and it's the spot were the front-runners are weakest (possible exception: Fred Thompson), yet the MSM refuses to take those candidates to task for the huge glaring gaps in their policies.

Please do real reporting, not celebrity reporting.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Watcher 5 — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:09:14 GMT

We are indeed humiliated. Thanks for the pass.

Notice how van comes racing to the bait?

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:30:03 GMT

Elizabeth, Mark and Zuma: I have been posting here several times a week for the past few months. Having read a lot of blogs of one stripe or another, I was never before interested in entering the conversation because of the tone or the general lack of thoughtful observation. The worst cases for me were the liberal blogs. When I found First Read, I read a whole range of opinion with people who seemed free from lockstep reactions. More often than not, after reading your posts and then reading through the discussions, I felt I had been better informed than anything I had encountered in the Mainline Media. First Read was not perfect, nor would it have been interesting if it were. And I am aware that it does not exist for my taste alone. Nonetheless, it was an intelligent blog with a few rules which kept conversations honest and clean. A few days ago, I was shocked at what I saw. There seemed to have been an invasion of aliens to the site. The tone had changed drastically for the worse and the quality of discourse had practically disappeared. The few beleaguered regulars left posting tried to have conversations around the loud newcomers who seemed all over the blog. One in particular. These folks seemed to have nothing special to say, but either were so egocentric as to believe that their wisdom had not been posted before better, or they were truly engaged in a "hijacking" as does occur on other sites from time to time, right around the time of some significant political or geopolitical event. Huma came onto the discussion board yesterday in a mild police action which was past due. I do not know what you can do about the deterioration of the quality and civility of your blog discussions. My own reaction was at first to ignore it. When I saw you were letting it go, possibly for the purpose of hyping the site, I joined in the brawl. It turned into a blog bar fight. I have never liked bullies, never liked loud-mouths and have found it almost impossible to stay in a room with fair-weather patriots, mouthy chickenhawks, who have no clue how foolish they appear to others, but nonetheless dominate the conversation with their "opinions." This is all to say that the blog has lost its appeal for me and at least one other free-thinking and intelligent friend. We are just weary of the harassment and the prevailing arrogance and ignorance (including some of our own reactionary posts) of the recent past few days. You are about to lose something of value (not just us in particular) and something many have appreciated: a forum for those with ideas, concerns, and expressions which may not fall directly into some ideological category. A blog for reasoned and even lighthearted exchange of opinion. A blog for free-thinkers, right left, and center. One final word before signing off for awhile: The predictable knee-jerk reaction (which has seldom been in such evidence here) to anyone who takes his ball and goes home is often about "sour grapes" or invites a childish diatribe about "free speech." We had free speech here. That was the joy of it. There is no law against bullying on the blogs and Americans still have the freedom of expression as a right. There is no law against passing gas either, but one doesn't have to stay in the room with those who pass it egregiously. There are other rooms. This was a good one. I hope you'll regain some control. My one regret is that I got drawn into some rather tacky exchanges with people who seemed gleeful in trashing the site. Cheers to all!
Mark Thieme (Sent Friday, January 12, 2007 11:50 AM)

So, this nut has a history of doing this kind of thing long before I got here.

I warned you Mark. This is just sad on your part and I really wish for everyone's sake that you would just stop.

Van

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Watcher 4 — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:36:27 GMT

HP, many apologies. In spite of van's paranoia that anyone who notices his failures must be Mark Thieme, there is no Mark Thieme and never has been. We are a blogging group who take turns using that moniker and others.
I am new here and did not intend to be rude.

I just watch and every time van blows off somebody or acts the fool, we take turns calling him on it. Kind of like the trash heap, you know?
Again, my apology.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

just the facts — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:39:19 GMT

Ok Jerry: (1) - (7) [not necessarily in order]
amtacdc.org/Policy%20Issues/Pages/toecongressmustintervene
usindiafriendship.net/congress1/senatecaucus/members
sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Political_action_committee
tata.com/tcs/releases/20030310
answers.com/topic/hillary-rodham-clinton
spider.mc.yu.edu/news/articles/article.cfm?id=101051
www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,185643,00
encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761556529/Hillary_Clinton
opinionjournal.com/wsj/?id=90000397
csmonitor.com/2003/0310/p01s01-uspo

Sean Hannity is not worth commenting on, let alone watching [I’m sure a sentiment I share w/ many, incl Mrs. Hannity, who surely tuned him out years ago for the sake of her sanity]

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Watchers 1-34 — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:25:26 GMT

Watcher 4 kind of gave us away, so we have decided to go ahead and come clean. Besides, the game here is getting a little out of control. We actually never intended to be the cause of anyone's meltdown.
Our fearless leader (not Mark Thieme) invented that name about a year ago with Samuel Clemens in mind. (Mark Twain/Mark Thieme... marking time)
It started as a group of five people, 2 women and 3 men who worked in the same campaign, but soon it spread to other campaigns as well. Once we had more than 50, but due to the increasing intensity of the campaign, we have lost some members.
Diverse group. Some young, some old, only 5 white males! Some are veterans, some are not. We have almost as many women as men and even 2 Republicans who claim they won't vote that way in 2008.
Our original intent was to choose some interesting blogs and have some good clean fun.
Soon, though, we found ourselves in the most horrendous and vile shouting matches most of us had actually witnessed up close.
Our idea had been to inject some of the reality of campaigning into the dialog. But we soon found out, that as Thomas Merton famously said, "Most humans can't stand much reality."
We found ourselves being punched out by weekend warriors, both political and military. Our veterans were incensed, our political operatives laughed at first, but then Mark Thieme suited up.
The Thieme character was flawed from the beginning. We keep a diary of faux pas which we were never called on. One time Thieme has kids, other times he is single, and so on. It was always according to who was blogging.
Last night there were howls of laughter as van reuter pompously announces that he can't find Mark Thieme on Google! Really?
The truth about Thieme is that he has become a man of many incarnations, as van has pointed out. We voted yesterday to kill him, (Mark Thieme, not van) and so we did. So van won't have Mark Thieme to kick around any more.
We regrouped and voted to bug van like he had harassed so many on First Read with his trash heap and hot air attacks.
One reason we stayed on is that some here know van from other times and places and do not like him. Apparently the guy knows how to make enemies. Also we have 3 designated smoke detectors and they all honed in on him. All in all, probably unfair.
That is what we meant when we hinted that we have an unfair advantage over whoever we go up against. We know them better than they know us. (Hey Google, right van?)
So we'll be watching, but at least using new names. Most likely we'll spend more time in other places for awhile until van cools down.
By the way, we were surprised that no one noticed we were multiple personalities except in name calling and bashing. There are hundreds of groups just like this all around the globe. We, being high-minded and morally pure, do want to offer sincere apologies to anyone who took us seriously. HP was catching on, but van was far behind... and that's where we will leave him for now.
It has been fun and we have met some great folks here. Thanks to all.

Peace,

The Mark Thiemes

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:39:09 GMT

there is no Mark Thieme and never has been. We are a blogging group who take turns using that moniker and others.
I am new here and did not intend to be rude.

So, now you're a GROUP? And YOU'RE new here?

So you've been LYING to everyone? The farewell in January was a GROUP effort? The October 8th farewell too?
Do yourself and everyone who knows you a favor and get help.
There are people who you have corresponded with here, even offered to go to dinner with who must feel betrayed by this sad pretense. I hope that they forgive you. I have. There's no reason or purpose to my enabling your illness.

Van

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

on MT — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:02:35 GMT

There is a minority opinion that needs to be expressed. Some of us thought we were taking advantage at times, and especially with van. There was never the least malice toward him and many times we tried to pull out, but he kept chasing us. About the time we would move on, we'd get a report that he was still blasting away with that purple prose of self-righteous pomposity. We'd get pulled in again becuase it was too much to pass up.
As we said, there was never real animosity, but a lot of humor. Since there were so many of us, no one took anything personally and soon it became this big inside joke. This humor was at van's expense and also was deleterious to the primary purposes of the board.
As we "move forward" we will have to calibrate the value of inside humor to the net detriment of others.
We also want to add out thanks to everyone here who put up with us. We know some of you had fun too and some appreciated the insights we brought from the campaign field... for the rest, we'll do you a favor and regroup. Thanks

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

Desmond/Still Crazy After All These Years — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:01:43 GMT

The Mark Theimes, I will miss you. Think of a song when you think of me.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

G.W. BUSHIE — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:13:25 GMT

PSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST COULD ANY ONE LEND ME A COUPLE OF TRILLION DOLLARS ?

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

wannabe — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 01:03:58 GMT

watchers
how do i join?

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

wellstone revenge brigade — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 01:56:49 GMT

I never imagined I'd come to miss Darren Pope, Myrtle Beach SC.

First thoughts: Where few dare to go

RJP3 — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:49:53 GMT

Homosexuality has really ravished our children,” said McClurkin, in an interview at the FamilyChristian.com website. He referred to homosexuality as abominable in a 2004 interview with a Christian magazine in Britain.

In numerous interviews, McClurkin has made widely known that he has struggled against his own attractions to other men — attractions which he says are the result of having been raped by STRAIGHT male pedophile relatives twice when he was a child.

“Donnie McClurkin has said that he is at war with the gay community, so it seems inconsistent with what the senator has said or even his own history and voting record.”

Less attention has been paid to two of the other performers. Joining McClurkin on Sunday, and performing with others on Friday in North Charleston, will be a sister duo called Mary Mary.

The sisters, Erica and Tina Atkins, interviewed in December and asked them how they feel about gays
“I don’t agree with the lifestyle... They have issues and need someone to encourage them like everybody else — just like the murderer, ... just like the prostitute.”

Tina Atkins echoed those comments saying, “We don’t necessarily agree with the lifestyle, but we don’t pride ourselves on bashing.” (SURE YOU DONT - RIGHT!)

“Everyone has things in their life that they need to CORRECT…” said Tina Atkins. “Even though that’s the way we feel, we don’t bash.”

Best to ask gay people if they consider that bashing. I sure am offend you WHORE.

Does being compare to a WHORE offend you Ms. Atkins?

McClurkin, Mary Mary and the Grammy Award-winning Walker that all three “have spoken aggressively against the LGBT community without apology.”

PS - I find in unbelievable when people refer to GAY ACTIVISTS. My friends and I are not activists. We are American Citizens. So are the bloggers. Our Civil Rights organizations respond to our concerns - they do not lead them.

The MSM loves to only report on *GAY* *ACTIVISTS*.
I know MANY STRAIGHT supporters of Gay/Bi/Straight EQUALITY - none of them activists.