The role of religion in politics

Rick, WS, NC — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:27:13 GMT

Define regular attendance of church cause' a whole lot of you ain't showing up if the church across the road is any indication...beware public figures selling their brand of religion, fear it in fact...

The role of religion in politics

jerry/corpus christi texas — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:28:38 GMT

I could care less about religion. What a person does in his own space is his own thing. People should vote for the best candidate based on their record and the way they conduct themselves. What religion has to do with it should have no bearing on the election.
If you believe in god, that fine and dandy, if you don't that's fine and dandy as well. I look at whether the candidate is truthful or trusting enough to deserve my vote.

The role of religion in politics

nuanced — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:40:38 GMT

jerry, I am with you on that 100%

The role of religion in politics

TEC-Spring-Tx — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:42:39 GMT

jerry/corpus christi texas for once you make sense.
Rick, WS, NC could not agree more. I am always weary of people selling religion and used cars. Watch what a person does because their words are meant to be a distraction.

The role of religion in politics

nuanced — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:43:18 GMT

a whole lot of you ain't showing up if the church across the road is any indication -- Rick, WS, NC

Rick, that's because they are all at the mega-church mega-business industrial complex down the road from me.

The role of religion in politics

jerry/corpus chrsiti texas — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:54:22 GMT

Now I have watched a few of Joel Osteen's shows and he does make sense......

Go out there and be somebody, not somebodies statistic.

In other words, put down the TV remote, put down the chicken wings and budweiser, don't wait for the government to save your miserable butt; get out there and prove you are an adult and not a 10 year old....

He seems to be somebody liberals could learn a few lessons from......

The role of religion in politics

Lee in CA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:58:08 GMT

Jerry - we agree at last.

Far worse than someone with no religion is someone who claims to be "Godly," but pays nothing but lip service to it, if that happens to sound like anyone we know in the White House.

The role of religion in politics

F StLouis — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:58:09 GMT

Joel Osteen is as queer as a nine dollar bill, even though he screams antigay crapola. Typical relgious man on the right.

The role of religion in politics

Lee in CA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:59:03 GMT

"He seems to be somebody liberals could learn a few lessons from...... "

Ooops - back to standard practices, I see.

The role of religion in politics

Rick,ky — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:02:21 GMT

If you have any doubt about the religous right coming unglued, i suggest you this past weekend's( 9 pages)article on where there support has gone.For me, i attend the Church of whats happening now every wednesday nite & all day sunday, my religion aint none your business, so lets keep it that way.

The role of religion in politics

Not a Lemming — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:06:08 GMT

Another organization funneling propaganda to the First Read Clinton machine for their instant distribution.

The role of religion in politics

Fold your tents — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:12:39 GMT

There is no roll for religion in politics. Except for OH MY DEAR GOD TAKE THIS SINNER BUSH HOME TO JESUS!

The role of religion in politics

pat huntington ny — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:24:58 GMT

TEC-Spring-Tx (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 1:42 PM)
................
You spoke to soon, see his comment that follows...
Be more careful next time you think about giving him a compliment.

The role of religion in politics

wellstone revenge brigade — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:27:18 GMT

Best quote from the 9 page article:

When you mix politics with religion, you get politics.

The role of religion in politics

Carmen Colorado — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:30:03 GMT

Look where religion got us with Bush. Religion is your own business not the whole worlds.

The role of religion in politics

pat huntingtonny — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:30:22 GMT

The following is a roundtable of ideas of the GOP front runners and what they bring to the table:

Rudy brings his prostate and the remains of a 9-11 victim;
Mitt brings phony family values and his special religous underwear;
Thompson brings the latest DVD of Law & Order;
McCain brings some geritol.

Ah, yes, this is what the other side has to offer.

The role of religion in politics

SONIC/Corpus — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:32:13 GMT

Jerry has put down the kool-aid. Suddenly...lucid posts! Thank you!

The role of religion in politics

nuanced — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:35:10 GMT

Rick, jerry, TEC -- ditto

The role of religion in politics

nuanced — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:38:09 GMT

jerry, I think your description (TV remote, chicken wings, bud) could fit a few conservatives too. You have a lot of wisdom in some of your thoughts but you throw it way when you get divisive.

The role of religion in politics

Stu, Saginaw, MI — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:44:58 GMT

Improbable as it may seem, with regard to religion being a factor in politics, I actually agree (for thinfirst time) with Jerry!

The role of religion in politics

Stu, Saginaw, MI — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:45:43 GMT

Improbable as it may seem, with regard to religion being a factor in politics, I actually agree (for the first time) with Jerry!

The role of religion in politics

Stu, Saginaw, MI — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:46:09 GMT

Improbable as it may seem, with regard to religion being a factor in politics, I actually agree (for the first time) with Jerry!

The role of religion in politics

LemmingsAreSmarterThanYou — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:48:50 GMT

Is anything that doesn't please you ever NOT propaganda?

And aren't you one of the non-lemmings that bought into Bush's ceaseless propaganda about Iraq?

The role of religion in politics

Anon., New Orleans, LA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:03:39 GMT

Jerry,

For once you were doing okay. Until you got to the Joel Osteen reference. You said that liberals should learn something from him and go out and make something of themselves. Does this mean all liberals should wait around until their daddy builds a mega-church and TV broadcast and gives it to them? Honestly, Jerry, not the best example for your lesson of self-empowerment.

The role of religion in politics

Andrew, Salt Lake City, UT — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:24:53 GMT

As a religious person, i believe that politics and religion should be separate. The Republicans are giving religion a bad image.

The role of religion in politics

pat huntington ny — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:39:23 GMT

Hillary saved us on 9-11...she's my religion...

The role of religion in politics

Richard in Idaho — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:41:22 GMT

It seems that many have forgotten that this country was intended to be a secular state where policy is not directed by religious ideologies. Remember Jefferson's line about a "high wall separating church and state." To those who endorse a Christian theocracy, be careful what you wish for as the policy direction may not be to your liking.

On another note see Ron Paul tonight on Leno. The only candidate I can see that makes any sense.

The role of religion in politics

CitizenJ — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:43:53 GMT

"There will always be good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. For good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

The role of religion in politics

Desi Dude, Birmingham, AL — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:45:52 GMT

This is my first ever posting on msnbc/first read.

I have got in habit of expecting initial negative post from jerry/corpus christi. So much so that most of the time I don't even bother to read what he writes. Imagine my surprise when I saw a very sensible and a balanced post from him.

jerry, my view about you has suddenly changed. I am still wary but next time I will not outright ignore your post.

The role of religion in politics

Ray Moore, Lexington, Kentucky — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:58:37 GMT

Polarization is an unavoidable consequence when religious beliefs are allowed to infiltrate politics and government. Lacking is a government “by the people and for the people”. When religious organizations successfully leverage their influence, there is no common ground for all the people. Individuals that are seeking public office should have a poor regard for those who make an effort to impose their will.

The role of religion in politics

Michael, Des Moines, IA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:01:26 GMT

If people dislike religion they are free to express their belief. However, do not think that history or the Constitution will back you up in this endeavor. If America was not founded as a Christian nation, why were the very first two acts of Congress to print Bibles to convert American Indians and to establish that Congress be opened with a prayer before every session? The Left would like you to believe that history and our perception of it began approximately in 1947. Why don't you look back at the words and actions of the actual founders and not what revisionist historians have to say about them a century and half down the road.

The role of religion in politics

J Pate, Nashville NC — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:02:59 GMT

In response to Pat in NY.....Hillary saving us....what a joke....Hillary is for Hillary....

The role of religion in politics

beaverdambob — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:03:33 GMT

Jerry - By golly there is hope for you, couldn't agree more. Glad to see you on board with the rest of us. Peace brother

The role of religion in politics

S.B. Stein E.B. NJ — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:05:49 GMT

I agree with Andrew to some degree. People should not be flaunting their religion as a point to vote for someone. I believe that there are many factors that make up a person's way of thinking; religion could be one of them like it is for me. On one level, people use religion to connect with other people. I have trouble believing that when it comes to the country that has a wide range of religions, one would focus on religion as a sole reason to vote for a person. If you look at Harry Reid and Mitt Romney, they are both Mormon but don't agree on much. They are most likely on opposites of many issues. Would one vote for the other; unlikely at best I would think.

The role of religion in politics

BILLY — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:13:25 GMT

RELIGION DOESTN'T BELONG IN POLITICS AND VICE VERSA. IF THE RULE APPLIES TO SEPARATE CHURCH/STATE AFFAIRS IT SHOULD APPLY HERE ALSO. WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR SAINTS AMONG THE CRAP OF RUNNERS RUNNING FOR OFFICE. JUST SOMEBODY DECENT.

The role of religion in politics

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:17:23 GMT

In History the secular power has always used religion
to control the populace, it seems that that lesson was used during the elections before 2006. The recent article on the value voters show that their power is weakening and for good reason, they do not speak for true believers. Remember when a king was coranated it was a church member who placed the crown on his head. Our fore fathers did not want a leader to also have to be beholden to the leaders of the church. It should still be the same today. Any church leader who suggests that they speak for god is a charlatan, any secular leader who uses their religion to seek and gain power is not a supporter of democracy. I think many people today see fundamentalism for what it is a fearfull reaction to change. I also think that many religious bigots see what is on television and take that as reality and see that the whole of our society as one big DESPERATE HOUSEWIFE SHOW. Television sometimes is a reflection of society but the fiction on TV today is just that, fiction. Jack Bauer is a fun story but no one saves the world at the last minute, reality is so much less interesting than the made up stories that keep us up at night. If you talk to your neigbors and families you see that they are just average americans, that is what makes up the bulk of our society, average americans. Paris and Britney are so much fun to watch, what famous human train wreak isn't but they are an aberration not the average. Religious leaders looking for attention have used the destruction of our social fabric as a shrill message throughout history, the childrens crusade is a very good example of that.

The role of religion in politics

Joe Sapp Oklahoma — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:22:18 GMT

It always amazes me that liberals think they are the only ones with first amendment rights to freedom of speech. Christians have as much right to voice our opinions about politics and yes even run for office. I want to know if the man I intend to vote for is a man of character not like Bill Clinton who has no character. This country if you will study it for yourself and not believe what atheist tell you was founded on Christian principles. I hope this country will once again be a great country that says and believes "In God We Trust."

The role of religion in politics

John B, Des Moines, IA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:23:24 GMT

Richard in Idaho you hit the nail right on the head at 3:41. "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." -- Sinclair Lewis

The role of religion in politics

Leslie, Lawrenceburg, Indiana — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:25:58 GMT

Go to godandstate.com if you are interested in seeing the candidates'stance on religion in politics. I think you will like what John Edwards has to say.

The role of religion in politics

Filip Svoboda — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:26:48 GMT

Separation of Church and state as our founding fathers intended, today religion IS part of politics and it should not be. Religion or the mention of religion should have no part in politics, yet today it is one of the major issues, this is wrong, the founder would be ashamed.

This is NOT a Christian Nation nor was it established as one, all a person needs to do is read the Constitution, it clearly states that religion has no place in government nor politics.

It sickens me that today it is such an issue when it should not be, the talk of religion in a government office should not be allowed to happen, nor prayer nor the disclosure of a government official's religious affiliation.

As I said, read the Constitution!

The role of religion in politics

REG; East Valley Phx. AZ — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:31:16 GMT

Whether it is a priest withholding communion, an Evangelistic Christian leader egotistically advocating their opinion is right, Osama bin Laden calling for jihad or any cleric setting themselves up as final authority it just doesn’t matter. Whenever anyone with a myopic focus on a limited set of criteria uses their position of influence to advocate others follow their decisions in politics, there is significant reason for real concern. As if al Qaeda isn’t proof enough, consider George W. Bush and the support he has manipulated from the Christian Right. I won’t fault their sincere concern for honest issues but there is a ‘blindness’ that is a drastic problem. First, it should be recognized that while a sociopathic personality is quite capable of impressively faking most anything they are literally incapable of being sincerely concerned for others, are totally self-indulgent, are without a conscience, have no guilt, will do/say whatever without hesitation, are grossly dishonest and just can’t possibly be a sincere Christian. The enthusiasm created for Christians to support George W. Bush was based mainly on the issues of stem cell ethics, marriage sanctity and opposition to abortion rights. To date Bush has responded with appointing a couple conservative judges, a veto of a stem cell bill, a lot of rhetoric and the stroking of a few Christian leaders (which has cost him nothing) to keep them ‘in the fold’. Now in contrast, what has he and his administration done that would be considered non-Christian? Let us consider just a few very serious items like: ignoring the warnings before ‘9/11’ when the administration was totally focused on Iraq (3000 dead and costing billions of dollars); falsely justifying attacking Iraq which was aimed at benefiting Special Interests and a select few (near 4000 Americans dead and 21000+ injured, 10s of thousands others killed and who knows how many injured, plus an estimated eventual trillion tax payers' dollars to be spent); prematurely pulling resources from Afghanistan to attack Iraq and thereby allowing the Taliban and al Qaeda to regroup and continue (unknown additional deaths and costs, with much more to come); and the constant gross dishonesty and arrogant self-indulgence as documented in the partial list that follows (subtly always neglecting the average American and real responsibilities). And for an insight into the Bush sociopathic personality, consider all of the failures experienced and the substantial costs incurred and all without once ever seeing any remorse, hearing an apology, seeing a change in the arrogant style or witnessing a change in the aggressive self-indulgent direction.
The ‘blindness’ is found in being led by others who are egotistically consumed with attention to their maybe important but limited concerns while neglecting to objectively and conscientiously see and responsibly consider the total picture. Whether someone is a Bush supporter or a radical follower of bin Laden, the problem is the same. We are all challenged to simply do our own thinking and objectively come to our own decisions, ideally with our biases being set aside enough to avoid being manipulated. I am personally afraid that the next time around (November 2008) it may happen again, as there are a couple of candidates aggressively competing just for the right to take over from Bush and to be the next ‘puppet’. And of course, there are those powerful and extremely wealthy few who are ready to do everything in their substantial power to back and support their chosen ‘puppet’, including to again overtly and covertly manipulate public opinion and insure ‘more of the same’. Hopefully the individual voter is actually smarter this time around.

[The gross dishonesty of the Bush administration, regrettably fully backed by the Republican Party, is totally offensive and then the arrogance just ‘adds insult to injury’. Consider the following Bush administration’s positions (if you know the details, you know the boldness of the deception and then the arrogance in the repetition tells the real story): * tax cuts for the wealthy benefit the economy; * warnings before ‘9/11’ weren’t specific enough; * attacking Iraq was justified; * our troops needed to find WMD and to get Iraqi prisoners to confess; * there is a real coalition sharing the costs and casualties in the Iraq War; * the Iraq War didn’t take away from the effort and focus on the War on Terror in Afghanistan; * the Iraq War has always been part of the War on Terror; * importing American drugs back into the USA is unsafe; * Global Warming wasn’t a problem; * ‘private accounts’ will solve the Social Security problems; * policies benefiting ‘big money’ and encouraging the exportation of American jobs and taxes doesn’t hurt the average worker; * the growing deficit and balance of trade deficit aren’t problems affecting the economy; * energy companies need government incentives and tax breaks even though they are making humongous profits; * there isn’t any fault with giving no-bid contracts and favored treatment to Halliburton, the defense contractors and others; * turning our port security over to Dubai Ports wouldn’t be a problem; * the administration had no part in the disclosure of the CIA agent's identity; * the squelching of the ‘wiretapping without a court order’ story in an election year was done for security and not political reasons; * the heightened warnings of terrorists attacks before our elections and then disappearing afterward, wasn’t using government to manipulate public opinion; * Homeland Security has achieved significant advances and hasn’t wasted tax payers money; * America is safer and not actually worse off today because of the Bush administration’s actions * the administration’s response after hurricane Katrina wasn’t just apathetic at best; * Iraq hasn’t generated into a civil war; * by next summer bringing home less than the number of troops sent over in the surge is a reduction; * the Iraqis are making progress and not just pursuing their sectarian and individual interests; * the Bush administration fairly represents all of us and is not just focused on a private agenda benefiting Special Interests and a select few who are significant Bush supporters and who provide overt and covert public opinion manipulation; * even considering all of these things and the necessary contradiction of a sociopathic personality, President Bush is strong on Christian values; * the loss of international prestige, the costs of nearly 4,000 Americans dead, 21,000+ injured and the estimate that a trillion dollars will be spent is really justified even when 190,000 weapons disappear, $4 million a day in Iraqi oil money is diverted, Iraqi police readily fire on American soldiers, Iraqis are fighting Iraqis,,; * faulting the ‘moveon.org’ for their ‘General Betray-us’ ad wasn’t just the often used tactic of ‘aggressively attacking the critic to avoid answering the criticism’; * having the Bush sponsored seminar on Global Warming, with the agenda being to discuss concerns, then go home to think about everything and decide what you can do without anything being binding, is a responsible approach and not just camouflage for continuing to do nothing; * and on and on as these few items are only a small sampling.]

The role of religion in politics

CitizenJ — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:54:39 GMT

"It always amazes me that liberals think they are the only ones with first amendment rights to freedom of speech. Christians have as much right to voice our opinions about politics and yes even run for office. I want to know if the man I intend to vote for is a man of character not like Bill Clinton who has no character."

Joe Sapp Oklahoma (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:22 PM)

Not all who have found religion possess character. And not all who choose not to believe lack it. I believe that Christians have as much right to freedom of speech as I do, but that doesn't obligate me to respect you for using religion to choose your politicians.

The role of religion in politics

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:57:38 GMT

Thanks REG,
You are so precise in all your points, this is the reason many see the light of day. Licoln was right "you can fool all of the people some of the time, but not all of them all of the time". Yes the fore fathers used christian principles to establish this great nation but they also put up the wall of seperation of church and state. With so many different religious denominations in our country, what one would you theocrats like to be the state sponsered religion? Most likly yours, that is why there is the wall, yours is not mine.

The role of religion in politics

Liz DeLong, Los Gatos, CA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:03:46 GMT

The pro-life - capital punishment advocates - christian leadership who declared war on a country which posed no threat to them and then proceeded to profit off the humanitarian crisis created.

The advocates of teaching our children intelligent design over evolution because it is "the truth" (or so they have decided) - yet the same person makes his money off of fossil fuels.

This Christian leaders will run to save the life of a person in a vegitative state whose name they can't even pronounce while presiding over the most death penalties of any governor in Texas with a justice system that has proven highly fallible now, with DNA testing.

A Christian leader who vacations - another who buys 2,000 dollar shoes while an entire American city drowns and burns and thousands of people go with it - but they are compassionate.

A christian administration who advocates torture even though jesus was apparently tortured to death.

He's tough on crime except when it happens within his own administration and amongst his own wealthy friends and then it is pardon city - pardons for the elite wealthy, treasonous, double agents but death for the poor, black, accused (not necessarily guilty) of being murderers on death row.

The compassionate Christian who vacations more at his texas ranch then works - and won't take the time to answer a question for a morning mother of a fallen soldier sleeping in a ditch outside his ranch.

The compassionate Christian leader who can't make it to the funeral of one fallen soldier during his entire presidency, a first for any president, not to mention a war time president but he sure made it to the funeral of his old pal Kenny Boy who presided over the country's largest corporate scandal stealing the hard earned retirement money and investments off of millions of hard working middle class americans who got NO compensation.

If that is being Christian and this is what religion does for people, I'm proud to say, that I am not religious.

The role of religion in politics

Sierra, SF — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:09:58 GMT

CitizenJ: '..."There will always be good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. For good people to do evil things, that takes religion."...'

...or a 'War on Terror'
Good point, CitizenJ

The role of religion in politics

YOur Name is Dirt, American Farce, DUH CITY — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:13:01 GMT

Well of course they must be approved, you are part of MSNBC, right - which is part of the mainstream media, right? The laughing stock of the American people - a few years ago - only few people thought the mainstream media was a joke, these days more the 50 percent know what pathetic journalism and how seriously you all take your oaths - which is why your faces, names and careers will soon hit the disgraceful bottom of the barrell and each and everyone of you will be a target for public humiliation. Pathetic - this entire corporation, industry and every single pathetic person who works for such a disgraceful enterprise. Seriously - whoever is reading this - have some freakin integrity and do something about the censoring news, the blatant twisting of truths, distortion, the lack of coverage regarding important information, the lack of investigative journalism - each and every one of you - from the ceo to the camera man and website editors are all supporting somethng that has disgraced this country and all of it's people and you will be shamed and humiliated if you aren't already - count on it.

The role of religion in politics

Sierra, SF — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:15:31 GMT

This is your mind on Kool-Aid:

'...Hillary saved us on 9-11...she's my religion...
pat huntington ny...'

Don't drink the Kool-Aid !!
It would be better to join the Church of the Gooey Death

The role of religion in politics

Michael, Des Moines, IA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:19:08 GMT

To all those who hope that repeating a lie enough times will convince everyone into believing it, I challenge you to find the words "separation of church and state" in the Constitution. "Separation of church and state" was written by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to a southern Baptist as a means of assuring them that the federal government would not establish a state "denomination" as had happened in England with the Episcopal church. When the founders use the term "religion" they mean "Christianity." It never crossed their minds that any other religion would be vying for our national attention in this country. Read the writings of the founders and the legislation they passed. Don't rely on modern day historians to tell you what the founders said. Go straight to the source.

The founders held church services every Sunday on the floor of the house of Congress. Now, I understand that a fair number of people dislike or disapprove of Christianity having an influence on public affairs, but this is not as it had always been.

I believe people with anti-religious sentiments have a right to speak their mind, but I am irritated by the fact that they try to use as evidence the founders themselves by spreading falsehoods about the founders words and actions. The founders (99% anyway) were decidedly Christian, not deists as many would like you to believe. And they very much intended their religion to permeate all aspects of public life.

I only want to support true Christian candidates as this is what the founders intended in order for our society to endure.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- James Madison (author of the Constitution)

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions...upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves to the Ten Commandments of God." -- James Madison (author of the Constitution)

The role of religion in politics

Mac, Bellflower, California — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:24:20 GMT

I hear alot of statements about the separation of church and state. We are told that the founding fathers were either diest or non religious. I think John Adams would qualify to expound on the intendended purpose of the Bill of Rights Amendment. He says "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the govenment of any other." Noah Webster, one of the first who called for the Constitutional Convention and was personally responsible for specific wording in the Constitution, wrote in a textbook he authored for public shcools, "All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, opression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible." Sounds like their religion played part in their politics to me and I am personally glad they did.

The role of religion in politics

Tim, Vancouver, Washington — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:26:15 GMT

I'd rather have a commander in chief who follows the 10 commandments(unlike the Clintons)than some one who puts on a show to win over everybody for a vote which means nothing in an election until a state's electoral votes are at a stale mate. At which point they turn to the votes of people of that particular state. Whatever happened to "We The People."

The role of religion in politics

Richard In Idaho — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:29:03 GMT

I think the fact of the matter is that Christian principles are inseparable from western culture. Many of our traditions have their origins in Christianity. Personally, I think it is rather benign for a candidate to espouse their religiosity or to have minted on our currency "in God we trust," However, the U.S. is a melting pot of cultures and religions and in this country there is no room for policy decisions to be guided by a select religion. One glaring example is our misguided support for defending Israel.

Believe what you wish, say what you want, this is a free country, and if you feel you can deduce someone's character from their piety, then more power to you. Just keep it out of law-making and setting the direction for the country.

The role of religion in politics

John B, Des Moines, IA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:31:38 GMT

Joe Sapp, don't hand us the argument that freedom of speech gives you the ability to impose your religion through law and the right to proselytize in public places. I'll bet you're afraid the Islamofascists will come over here to impose Sharia law, aren't you? Tell me how that's different?

The role of religion in politics

Don in LA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:36:59 GMT

Sapp, our nation was founded by people getting away from religious persecution so that they could practice their own religious beliefs, without interference by government. Our forefathers knew that religion had no place in politics, and said so.

The role of religion in politics

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:44:33 GMT

Joe Sapp writes
"I want to know if the man I intend to vote for is a man of character not like Bill Clinton who has no character."
First, how do you know your man has real character, they all act perfect but we really no they are not. If you give me 60 million tax dollars I can prove that none of them have character.
Second, Bills wife forgave him, why can't you, being a good christian as you suggest you are, why not forgivness? Jesus taught us that, seems you'd want to follow the scripture.
third, no one is without sin, including you, your blog proves it, you cannot let this thing go, perhaps a little less self rightiousness and a little more forgivness is what we all need. be a little more zen, let it go, it is in the past.

The role of religion in politics

beveryafraid — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:47:55 GMT

REG - good points that haven't been covered sufficiently (although a number of commentators have tried). I'm speaking of course of the Bush personality disorder that REG mentions - if there's anything worse than a sociopath at the helm of (our) government, it's having two - thank you Jesus!!

The role of religion in politics

George, Nephi, Utah — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:55:52 GMT

OK so all of you who haven't read or studied the founding of our country and the part played by our "founding fathers" gassing in the wind. They were DEEPLY religious men. Wlse why would Benjamin Franklin suggest they start each meeting ob the constitutional convention with prayer? Have any of you even seen a copy of the Constitution, let alone have read it. The founding fathers knew that not everyone would agree with what they believed in, and having recent history of the religious conflicts of the past barely a century old or less wise inserted the part about the separation of church and state and rightfully so. So much of world history in Europe was caused by or at least strongly influenced by religion sharing a bed with the state. Just because a person is or proclaims to be deeply relgious he/she should never flaunt that to the American public. Religion is a personal matter. A subject for agency and freedom of choice. What any and ALL cnadidates should do is remember to do the Honorable thing, say and do what is right for the country not some self motivating principle of purpose just so they can push their own personal agenda. How many of you remember the First 3 words of 6 Constitution?. . . . . . "We the People. . ."
Unless "We the People" get off our collective buts and leave the comfort and seemingly security of special interests and Pray, YES I SAID PRAY!! for guidance on how to help this country and Who to vote for we are doomed to slide even further down that slippery slide that leads to Chaos and possible Dictatorship by proxy.

The role of religion in politics

Greg R., Spokane, WA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:15:18 GMT

Cleanliness is next to Brett Favre!

The role of religion in politics

KN St. Louis, Missouri — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:29:15 GMT

Wow! Normally I just read these, but today I feel moved to comment. I am 40 yrs old and I don't know what history books were read by some of you, but in mine it clearly stated that religious freedom was one of the reasons America was founded. The constitution clearly states that religion and government are not to influence or overrule ONE ANOTHER. One does not trump the other. And as for conservatives being dupped by Bush, most of us voted for him because we like government to be about it's business and not in our personal business. The majority of people I have read have said they researched the issues, but clearly have not. FYI Clinton knew about 911 in his first term, and the tax cut for the rich Bush passed was for us rich people making 20-30 thousand a year. The Democrates call anyone making above 15,000 a year rich. I wish that I was a rich as some of them are. All the candidates have faults, but how they feel about religion IS important. We don't have to agree, but we do have to agree to keep our hands off each others beliefs

The role of religion in politics

Class Warrior, D.C. — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:33:31 GMT

I seem to remember The Man From Galilee saying that we should "worship our Father in secret, because our Father sees in secret." It ought to go double for candidates! Remember, folks, America is NOT YET a Theocracy!!

The role of religion in politics

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:00:53 GMT

I do pray every day george, I pray that we find a leader that will get us out of the mess this current leader has got us in, I pray that we can get rid of this political divide that this leader has intensified, I pray that we the people can come together and create a better place for our children.
Oh yeah I am a fouth generation democrat and I was taught to love my neighbor and to respact the laws of the land. I agree with much of what you said but there are people who do not have religious beliefs and they deserve just as much respect as the religious do. We are all americans and we all need the support of each other during this trying times.

The role of religion in politics

JM — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:15:43 GMT

The far right wing movements like the 700 club, Focus on the Family, the Heratiage Foundation, Recliaming Christ for America, and I can name a lot more far right wing movements that will take up an entire book are really Militas. These Militas want to and have tried to infiltrate the Government. They have infiltrated the Government by having trying to get Congress to pass a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage, and the Terri Schaivo case. Infiltrating the Government is a very serious matter like treason or overthrowing the Government. Infiltrating the Government needs to be taken very seriously. These far right movements want to put the United States under theocratic law just like what the Taliban did in Afganistan, or like the governments in Iran and Saudi Arabia. The far right movements think exactly like the Terrorists. The United States talks about going against Islamic Facist regimes. The far right movements are Facist movements. The Far right movements bomb abortion clinics and say they are doing the work of GOD and Jesus. The MIddle Eastern Terrorists like to bomb buildings and say they are doing it in the name of their GOD. The Far Right Movement is a bigger threat to this country then the Terrorsits are. Pat Robertson has made comments on the 700 Club that they should plant a nuclear weapon at Foggy Bottom in Washington DC and has said they should nuke the State Department. Talking about nuking buildings or places is a very serious matter. The FBI should have arrested and investigated Pat Robertson for saying they should nuke buildings. If I said something like that on TV they would throw my butt in jail and label me a suspected terrorist. What Pat Robertson was saying on his show is not free speech it is threating the Government. These nuclear weapons that Pat Robertson was talking about are the same types of weapons the Untited States fears that terrorists might use on us. If the Far Right Movements put the Untied States under Thoecratic Law under their regime we could end up being a terrorist state. If the far right got their way into changing the regime we could end up threating attacks on countries that don't agree with the US just like what the Middle Eastern Terrorists are doing to us right now. The thing is the US is a nuclear power and if the far right got their way in changing our regime they could nuke a city in a European Country because the Europeans Countries have a system of law and are more liberal then the United States is and the far right doesn't like Liberalism just like how the terrorists don't like Liberalism. These far right movements are a threat to National Security and the Goverment. We need a Presidental Administration that will take these far right movements and what they are up to very serious. We need a Presidental Administration that will put NSA Survalliance and use the Patriot ACT to their advantage against the far right movements. We need a Presidental Adminstration that will stand up to the far right movements. The Far Right Movements are a threat just is serious as Communism was, and Terrorsim is. The Far Right Movements are going to have to be a new War this country is going to have to fight.

The role of religion in politics

Kris — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 00:31:41 GMT

Jesus called those praying on street corners hypocrites and said to pray in your closet where no one will see you. When I see a publicly praying politician, I think-"hypocrite",liar. Jesus also said to keep God and Cesar separate and he also called politicians and religious leaders white-washed graves. Forgive your enemy, forgive prostitutes and other dregs of society. Watch out for the fake "christians", they are frauds! They are doing everything opposite of what Jesus thought.

The role of religion in politics

Mike Henry, Quanah,Texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 03:10:18 GMT

I do not know, really, whether I am a left winger or middle of the road, but I am a democrat and a devoted follower of Jesus. And the Jesus I know loved his neighbors. He was concerned about their illnesses, and chasing out demons, and economic justice, and loneliness, and outcasts and people like you and me. He wanted the Jewish homeland to be ruled in a Godly way and not by Caesar. He hated oppression, and predatory lending, and arrogance and feathering ones own nest whatever the cost. And He said, "Know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

He did not say He would make us free. He said the truth would.

I don't know about you, but I want to vote for someone who has a vision of America. America the way Jesus saw his homeland. A free people. A Democratic way of life. A people who know just how terribly prescious the truth is, and who have the greatest respect for it.

And, yes, my faith very much affects the way I see the future of my country, and my choice of candidates in this election.

I hope you all have a strong faith. But I would never lobby Congress to pass laws which affect the way you express your faith - who or when or how you worship. You see, that would be a terribly unChristlike form of oppression.

The best we can hope for is that our faith, whether Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Islamic, or Bhuddist (to name a few)leads us to the truth.

The role of religion in politics

John B, Des Moines, IA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:09:52 GMT

Those of you who are going on about the Untited States being founded by Christians are missing the point entirely. Why did the Puritans, the Quakers, and a variety of other sects end up in the New World? Because the governments where they came from would not allow them to live according to their beliefs. Who were these people who imposed such restrictions? Members of other Christian sects. THAT is the crux of the matter and the entire justification for the concepts which collectively are known as separation of church and state. If I have the right to impose my religious beliefs on you as law I am AUTOMATICALLY infringing upon YOUR religious freedom. I am a religious person, a person who has served as Deacon, Elder, and board member in a mainline Christian congregation. My beliefs influence everything I do and how I do them. As an AMERICAN I am OBLIGATED to understand that I am not able to impose my beliefs on others.

The role of religion in politics

Ron Jeffers — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:19:33 GMT

There is one basic truth some people may not want to hear, but it is truth nonetheless: religion is religion is religion. The point is that each candidate is probably a member of some religion, so when you criticize any candidate for their religion, you are basically saying that another religion is somehow superior. I don't care what religion a candidate is a member of, since I know that their religion says nothing about what kind of president they will be. The question that I do ask myself is "which candidate is best capable of making decisions that are in the best interests of the country, as opposed to making decisions that are in the best interests of a religious belief".

The role of religion in politics

Mike Henry, Quanah, Texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:50:25 GMT

Ron:

I am afraid that you may not really understand what it means to have religion and to be religious. A religious person is one who has God at the center of his life. A non-religious person is one who has something else at the center of his life, like money or power or whiskey or himself.

Whatever it is that is at the center of a man's life guides and directs everything he thinks and everything he does. If you do not know what is at the center of a man's life you do not know the man.

Most folks will not tell you what is at that center -or will mislead you if you ask. You have to read between the lines. If you know what to look for, it is not all that difficult. If you do not get reasonably good at it, you are destined for disappointment.

It is much more difficult when you are unable to sit with a person and look him square in the eye. It is much more difficult when all you have to go on is sound bites and videos and second hand information. But it is crucially important and I would just suggest - you have to try.

The role of religion in politics

Mike Henry, Quanah, Texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:54:46 GMT

The role of religion in politics

Ron Jeffers — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:47:19 GMT

Mike - IMO, a good president must be able to separate his responsibilities as President from his personal belief system. Judging by your response, you don't seem to think this is possible...or perhaps even proper. My point is that there are times when a Presidents personal belief system comes into conflict with decisions he must make as President. Those who are unable to make those decisions should not be in the Oval Office IMO.

The role of religion in politics

Jeremy — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:18:56 GMT

Were are choosing a President of the Untited States to lead 300 million people not a church leader or pastor. Keep religion out of politics. It is someone that were electing to Washington not Vatican City.

The role of religion in politics

Mike Henry, Quanah, Texas — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 00:46:51 GMT

Jeremy:

Let me assure you, when the heat is high in the kitchen, Jesus is comfortable there. He is comfortable in the street, whether it be Washington, Dallas, or wherever. Presidents have to make agonizing decisions. Just think how much more agonizing it must be for a man who has no spirtual compass. Just think about how hard it must be for a man who is unable to find peace within, when the noise level screams.

I expect you believe in something, Jeremy. Is it something that will stand by you when you absolutely, positively have to get it right? If your something isn't up to it, better stay ut of the kitchen.

The role of religion in politics

C Klitzing — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 01:33:33 GMT

Let's not separate church and state.
I love how it works in the Arab countries.

More people have been killed in wars over religion then anything else.

Mr. Bush while caliming to be a good Christian doesn't seem to follow the principles of such.
Why is there always money for war but, never for the poor in our country?