First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Brian, Cedar Hill, TX — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:30:37 GMT

Shame on you, MSNBC. First off - this was not a debate. This was a Michael Vick Attack Dog show with an absolutely obvious setup against Hillary Clinton. I can believe Russert would participate in such a below the belt attack, but am sorely disappointed that Brian Williams would be part of such a thing. A debate is usually started by a question on an issue to one party to get things started - this started with a setup question, specifically aimed at the respondent to attack Hillary, and so were the questions to follow. How below the belt can you get? Why call it a debate - why didn't you call it what it was - a forum designed to attack Hillary from every angle?

But you know what? It didn't matter - because Hillary kicked-ass on all of them. If she didn't prove last night after the barrage they laid on her, that she has the temperment, clear-headed, sheer courage and strength to lead when attacked by a pack of wolves, then nobody can. She even convinced my wife, who never cared for her before, that she's the one we need to fight to get our nation back.

And Obama? A mealy-mouth who stammered and spoke as if he was startled every time a question came his way.

John Edwards? Just showed how he made his milllions as a sleaze-bag lawyer.

The true winners - Hillary 1 and Joe Biden 2.

The REAL LOSERS - Brian Williams and (Fox?)MSNBC.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Adam Columbus OH — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:34:31 GMT

"But then when NBC’s Tim Russert asked Clinton about why her First Lady papers in Little Rock aren’t available to the public, Obama found his opening and delivered what might have been his best line of the debates."

Indeed it was. This is absolutely a legitimate issue. If Sen. Clinton's arguement is that she is the most experienced candidate, that she is ready to lead from day one, those records need to be made available to back up the claim.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Molly, Neb — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:34:38 GMT

They all crucified her and.... she's still standing. Shes as hard as nails, just like her husband. THE only candidate that can fight against the republican spin machine. Nobody is invinsible. This independent will still be voting for her. The other candidates from both sides are all too weak.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:35:06 GMT

Hillary got her butt kicked plain and simple.....

She continues to show she does not really have any answers for the big questions like social security and the economy and such. That stupid e-mail sent out by Mark Penn did nothing to show what kind of leader Hillary Clinton could be.

At least now she has a new theme song:
The theme song from "Flipper"
That woman could not even give a straight answer on drivers licenses.....

Once again, the Clinton's have shown that when it comes to elections, it's not about what people think, but what the Clinton's only think.

Clinton's followers are no different then Ron Paul's.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Scott, PA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:35:59 GMT

With little time, everything that Biden siad seemed to carry so much more wieght and 'gravitas' then anybody else on stage. The MSM needs to start benchmarking all other candidates against what Biden is doing. He is laying out specific, clear and responsible plans and is passionately striving to be the keader of the free world.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

bb — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:36:36 GMT

Mr Matthews and Mr Russert should be ashamed of themselves. They acted like two little boys picking on a girl and trying to make her cry. Two idiot men trying to get over on a woman. Pathetic!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Ravine Force, Kissimmee, FL — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:38:50 GMT

If it is based on who delivered the cleanest shots and was most articulate in placing Hillary on the defense, I have to say Edwards did it. By far his best night.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Tim Cooke, Indiana — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:39:13 GMT

Wow, it looks like Hillary is just human. The repubs were treating her like she was this all powerful being.
Guess what, shes human and still the best person running to be the US president.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Ricardo in California — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:40:51 GMT

The GOP (and Dems) have been talking about Immigration for decades. They use it as an issue to polarize the voters and garner votes. Once they get into office, the issue disappears and is swept under the rug. If you believe that any of the presidential candidates (GOP and DEMS) will do anything about immigration, I ask you to look back at all of the immigration promises that have been made over the years. Candidates should stop making promises that they clearly have no intention of delivering.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Elizabeth Sullivan, San Diego, CA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:40:55 GMT

Really MSNBC? That is it on Biden? You have got to be kidding me.

Your coverage is increasingly bothering me.

Maybe (CHUCK TODD) it isn't for you to write off Biden's campaign with one sentence. Last night, with just 7 questions, he looked more electable, presidential, informed and unafraid than HRC, BO, and JE combined.

When will you admit that it isn't gaffes keeping him out of the top tier any longer - it is lazy reporters and analysts who don't want to have to rethink the race because they have already begun writing their copy on the upcoming "historic" election.

History will be made by the media if they ignore the best candidate of either party because they don't want to have to update FIRST READ on the weekends.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Jan Erik — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:42:46 GMT

Shame on you NBC. You should get the facts right before smearing HRC down to the floor. The governor had proposed 3 different drivers licenses: 1)for id purposes like a non-drivers license is used now 2) regular drivers license 3) special license for illegals that would require them to take a test and thus be safe on the road. HRC said no to 1 & 2 but would consider 3. There was only 30 seconds to respond which wasn’t enough time to make herself clear. Chris Matthews jumped to the conclusion that she said no and yes to the same question

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:43:01 GMT

AHHHHHHH poor poor Hillary.....

Got picked on by a bunch of men and now everyone feels so sorry for her......

She doesn't know what a tough debate is yet....
If that was how she handles being attacked in a debate she better just take her ball and go home.

Her toughest debates are next year with the GOP.....
I'm just frothing at the mouth just thinking about that debate when she will finally have to come clean with her positions.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Ricardo in California — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:46:14 GMT

Jerry you obviously did not watch the debate last night. Hillary was attacked on several times, but in the end, she held her own and proved to all of the other candidates that she is not afraid of them and looked the most presidential. I can't wait until she debates Guiliani and tears that loser apart. By the time Guiliani get through his stutters, Hillary will eat this man alive. Go Hillary GO!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Elizabeth Sullivan, San Diego, CA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:48:38 GMT

WOMEN,

Please stop with the "poor Hillary" or "they were picking on her". You are embarassing the women who truly believe in equality of the sexes. She is running for President of the United States, not a sorority.

I don't want a female president elected because MEN are labelled as "attacking" her when they demand clarity on her positions. She can't answer anything without triangulating, evading, or promising a "commission" or "panel".

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Adam Columbus OH — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:53:23 GMT

Ricardo in California,

Which was a personal attack, rather than highlighting a position or stand Sen. Clinton has taken?

How does giving two distinct answers to the NY license issue in as many minutes qualify as "looking presidential"?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:53:54 GMT

Elizabeth,
VERY WELL SAID!!!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Tuck,Realityville, KS — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:54:32 GMT

painly obvious now that Obama is not tough enough to be prez....

edwards did well!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Crystal (Time for change) — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:56:45 GMT

Here, here Elizabeth Sullivan, San Diego, I completely agree!!! If they said the same thing to a man, no one would say a peep!!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Sierra, SF — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:01:47 GMT

Ravine Force, Kissimmee, FL: '...If it is based on who delivered the cleanest shots and was most articulate in placing Hillary on the defense, I have to say Edwards did it. By far his best night...'

Ravine Force, Edwards was GREAT !!
I have been for Obama (with Edwards as my back up) all campaign season.
But, Edwards showed enought fight in him for me to switch my allegiance.

The last comment about Hillary's position on driver's license for illegal immigrants was perfect:

In the last two minutes we've seen Hillary take two different positions....

This has got to continue, follow up on this.

It's time to derail the Hillary Clinton 'Forked Tongue Express'

Hillary WILL LOSE !!
Her lame non-answers won't work in One On Ones.
Even in the post debate commentary, they said that when there's a smaller debate (3 or 4 people), she'll wilt. She can't hold up with her deceptive non-answers.

Hillary Clinton, the Forked Tongue Express

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:02:06 GMT

Obama and Edwards made damned fools out of themselves last night.
Obama did nothing but regurgitate the G.O.P. party line, and Edwards needs to be reminded that he and John Kerry were beaten in the last Predsidential Election. Maybe he forgot that.
Both of them sounded like Giuliani lite.
Oh, and Russert gets the Neo-Con Newsman of The Night award for asking about Hilary's personal papers. It's interesting that no other First Lady in history has been asked to release their personal papers.
But, as usual the CANTservatively BIASED CORPORATE MEDIA (this includes you Mark) has a different set of rules for The Clintons.
Hillary CLEARLY won that debate last night. She was attacked from all sides, showing that SHE is the candidate to beat, and she stood her ground.
Obama came off as a whiney second tier candidate. (that's code speak for SORE LOSER) who sounds more like a nuanced republiCANT than a truly Liberal Democrat. He still hasn't explained why he'd sit down and unconditionally negotiate with terrorists, and he still refuses to acknowledge that Norman Hsu fundraised for him as well.
I think Bill Richardson was right when he said Democratic Candidates need to stop ripping into each other (in particular, ripping into Hillary)and save some spitfire for the republiCANTS.
But hey, when you're LOSING and losing BIG like Obama and Edwards are; that's what you have to do. It's called desperation.
Biden came off well last night, and so did Richardson. Kucinich was his usual irelevant self.
All in all, last night was the kind of primary debate that makes someone like jerry in corpus christie happy. Democrats, tearing up other Democrats and lots of in-party bickering.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

SB — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:02:09 GMT

Beautiful job by Tim Russert and Brian Williams. Finally Hillary is exposed for what she is. The American people deserve a straightforward, honest answer, and she is unwilling to give it.

Her position on Iran was condemned by all for the disaster that it is. Her vote on the war, and now on Lieberman-Kyl show that she does not possess the judgement to be our president.

This is the beginning of the end for Hillary, and I am breathing a sigh of relief for my democratic party and for the American people.

And bb- If you think the moderators were tough, you haven't seen anything yet. Hillary would be a lightening rod for the republican party. Also, as a woman, I resent you crying foul and portraying her as a victim. She has created this problem for herself, and has been given a pass by the other candidates. Last night she was treated as an equal and she didn't measure up. She can't lead us anywhere if she doesn't know where she is going.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Roman, Davie, FL — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:02:09 GMT

I am an Edwards supported and I believe he won last night's debate; he was simply better on staying on message and making his case another viable democratic candidate for president. That being said, I am not sure why Hillary's driver license answer was consider a "gotcha moment". She stated that Spitzer's idea made sense as he needed to do something with the illegals in HIS state as the federal govt failed to act. I believe does make sense for a Govenor to act for the people of his state when the federal govt fails. That's what she said! She didn't agree with the plan but agrees it makes sense for Spitzer to take some action. As Chris Rock said, "I am not saying [give licenses to illegals] but I understand!"

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Blue state baby — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:03:37 GMT

Molly, Neb..I could not have said it better!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Dot, Illinois — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:05:57 GMT

I didn't get to watch the debate last night, so I can't comment. I am interested in reading about your reactions in your posts today. I gather that Mr. Russert again was especially hard on Senator Clinton.
He did the same thing in the previous debate--maybe he isn't the best choice for moderator because I read
somewhere that in a well run debate, no one notices the moderators, the focus is all on the debate participants. Any comments on how you think the debate went would be welcome. (I am being serious) I think this blog gives a very accurate reading and a good cross section of views of the average American voters regarding the candidates.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

TASR, Stillwater OK — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:06:20 GMT

As a born and bred Republican, I am changing parties. As a Democrat, I will actually have some say as to who will NOT be the Democratic candidate!

I have reconciled myself to the fact that our next president will not be a Republican, and I can both understand that and mourn it at the same time.

HOWEVER, I will do all I can to help Mr. Obama become the democratic nominee; I would even support an Edwards/Obama ticket, but I will not settle for letting a Clinton waltz into the Whitehouse again without a fight.

Fellow Republicans--change your party NOW so that you can vote in Democratic primaries! Because when election day rolls around, it won't matter what party is on your card, you will still be able to vote for your candidate of choice.

MSNBC--It ain't over 'til it's over. Quit telling us that the next president will wear pumps!

Hill'--You ain't seen nuthin' yet! Even if you slime your way into the Whitehouse, you will NEVER "represent" me.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Susan,Miami — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:07:39 GMT

Hey Liz, Hillary took care of herself just fine. However, Chris Matthews was not telling the truth about certain issues and in his evalution of her. It was painfully obvious that Tim Russert(asking her many questions, some ridiculous) was attempting to throw his male weight around and try to trip her up. Both those morons didn't do that to the other candidates. It looked like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly were running the show instead of impartial moderators-as they should have been.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Sierra, SF — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:08:43 GMT

Tim Cooke, Indiana: '...Guess what, shes human and still the best person running to be the US president...'

What debate did you watch, im Cooke ?
She didn't give a straight answer to any question !

Why won't she open up her archives ?
What is she hiding ?
Hillary claims her 'experience' in the White House qualifies her to be President.

Why won't show what her qualifications are ?
What DID SHE DO in the White House ?
She can't give a straight answer.
The Republicans will eat her lying carcass alive !

Oh Tim !!
What is Hillary's position on driver's licenses for illegal immigrants ?

Hillary Clinton, the Forked Tongue Express !!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Leslie Kloss — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:09:55 GMT

bb - Mr Matthews and Mr Russert should be ashamed of themselves. They acted like two little boys picking on a girl and trying to make her cry. Two idiot men trying to get over on a woman. Pathetic!

Yeah, she's a girl!! Lay off you two buffons! Affirmative Action at work here, you know.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Dante (Largo, Maryland) — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:10:03 GMT

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY says,

"It's interesting that no other First Lady in history has been asked to release their personal papers."

That is not really a valid argument b/c no other first lady has ran for a presidency. Who cares about their record? But I anyone who is running for presidency based on their record, should be willing to expose their record. I think all Clinton supporters should want this as well, if they believe in her then it could do nothing but make their argument stronger. Why make it an issue if it is such a good record?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:10:48 GMT

"...I'm just frothing at the mouth ....."
jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:43 AM)

Truer words were never spoken.
"Frothing at the mouth" sums up your knowledge of the issues, and accurately describes your political agenda, jerry.
(Then again, that froth might have something to do with your lust for a second or third cousin.)

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:11:04 GMT

Dirty Harry Callahan said it best:

If you are going to play lumberjack, you better be able to handle your end of the log.

Ricardo, yes i did watch the debate, tired as I was.
Chris Matthews decided to throw Hillary under the bus and gave Obama some advice and he used it to attack Hillary and found out that when it comes to a serious debate, Hillary has no game plan and no hope. To use my "Flipper" analogy, she looked like the Miami Dolphins; no hope and no game plan. She continued to sidestep the tough questions and it showed in the ratings. Everybody knew Obama won last night, it wasn't even close. Hillary showed she does not have the stones to be president and she will have to use her husband and the Clinton name to win.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Rick,ky — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:11:34 GMT

I'm betting that hillary was in Federal court this morning trying to get an EPO against all the bad men who called her on her Doubletalk. Where is AL when you need him. I said it yesterday, Tim Russert will not forget his gaffe from the last debate he moderated. He ask the Tuff questions & does his homework whether you agree with the questioning or not.if you want sftball questions, go to a high school debate. They're not running for class president here, my friends.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

nuanced — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:11:53 GMT

Clinton's followers are no different then Ron Paul's.
jerry/corpus christi texas
--- not fair jerry. Ron Paul's followers are motivated by principles (why else stick with a sure loser), while Hillary's followers want to be with the winner.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Ron, TX — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:12:03 GMT

Hillary should be embarassed to show her face in public after THAT performance, and despite the few hanger-on'ers and blind Clinton fans, just take a look at the poll at the top of the MSNBC homepage about who did well and who blew it. It may be "unscientific" but -45,000 people- sure is a higher accuracy than the 500 or so poll groups normally use. Guess what? -Everyone- knows Hillary Clinton blew it.

Who had the most rehearsed answers? Hillary Clinton- 58%.

Who avoided the questions? Hillary Clinton - 65%.

Horrible job. She stood ALONE on that stage on Iran, attempting to claim that "well it was non-binding." Does that mean it's only a half-screw up? She sure seemed to think it was binding on economic sanctions and diplomacy, but I guess she never finished READING that sentence: "to SUPPORT the prudent and calibrated use of ALL INSTRUMENTS of United States national power in Iraq, including diplomatic, economic, intelligence, and MILITARY INSTRUMENTS, [against the Government of Iran]"

And the tides begin to churn...

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Bee — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:12:44 GMT

Hillary Clinton is a joke. I have said it before and i will say it again. She is Bush-Chenney lyte in all her dealings.

Transaparency -- She scored 0%
Credibility -- She scored 0%
Issues -- She scored 20%

What exactly does she stand for? She is too secretive and won't release her records.

If folks pay attention to my arguement in the past about the MSM, i told you guys the only person that can hold her accountable is Tim Russert. He did it yesterday by asking tough question we demand from our media.

No more Chris Matthew, Chuck Todd, Mark Murray but Tim Russert.

I trust Tim Russert to get an answer for us on all the issues that are important to us. I am tired of politician that is not ready to level with America people.

For people that are whinnie about the questions, get a life. This election is not about audition of the queen nor is it about corronation of the queen. This election is about who is going to deliver the change we've all been waiting for.

As far as i am concern, the process is just getting started. We the people will elect who is best for our party. Don't say Edward candidacy is dead....hahahaha!!!I love it.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

--NSMSNBC — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:12:45 GMT

Clinton’s defense of the Iran resolution was ‘other Senators voted for it’ and it was a non-binding resolution. Well, if it was non-binding and thus not a very important vote and hardly worth Obama being present. So, Clinton has obfuscated the situation once again, was the vote important or not? But I leave this for Tuck to grasp at straws. I think so—it was an important resolution, and I expressed my initial disappointment in Barack barring any good reason for missing the vote; yet, he did speak out against the resolution immediately, and I have so noted his beliefs. He has made his opposition clear and in my view correctly.

Clinton's secrecy and double talk reminds me of the past seven years with Bush-Cheney. Although, some might call it downright Clintonian. Maybe she is right that it’s time to turn the page or throw away the book all together. Bush’s, Clinton’s, all of it.

A little bit of fun … It’s like Clooney was talking directly about Clinton.

“Cause the house always wins. You play long enough, never change the stakes, the house takes you. Unless, when that perfect hand comes along, you bet big, and then you take the house.”

--Clinton is the House, take that how you want.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

PJ — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:13:12 GMT

Anyone on that stage would be a better POTUS than Bush, Giulianni, Romney, McCain. Biden is GREAT.
"A noun, a verb, and 9/11" I was LMAO for 10 minutes, its so true!! Also loved Obama's line about wearing a Mitt Romney mask for Halloween.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

J. Williams, Baltimore, MD — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:13:22 GMT

Chuck Todd called it right. Hillary wasn't knocked out, but she was definitely on the ropes, as far as Iran and *laugh* driver's licenses. It was as if she knew the questions were coming, conformed them to some canned answer and believed that would be the end of it. Just check the MSNBC poll at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21528788/ She was definitely outed by *EVERYONE* for giving too many canned answers, failing to reconcile differing views expressed in the past to different folks, and ultimately couldn't cement her opinion in any clear way, particularly on healthcare.

By the way, who cares if everyone else "attacks" the front-runner? If you're running to lead the "free world," I would *hope* you make it as clear as possible, as often as possible why you're better than the person ahead of you.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:15:32 GMT

Merle:

maybe in New York state you people are used to candidates that are flip floppers and can't make up your minds without someone either holding a gun to your head or raising your taxes.

The country deserves better then a woman who can;t even answer a simple question about social security. She has to send a man out with an e-mail that did not answer any questions. Makes me wonder if Mark Penn is really Hillary Clinton.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Sierra, SF — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:15:44 GMT

Tuck,Realityville, KS: '...painly obvious now that Obama is not tough enough to be prez....'

Tuck, it's obvious that Hillary Clinton can't give a straight answer !!
What is Hillary's position on driver's licenses for illegal aliens ?

Cat got your tongue, Shuck ?

'...edwards did well...'
For once, you're right:
'...Senator Clinton said two different things in the last two minutes...'

How true
Tuck, why won't Hillary release her archived White House records ?

Hillary Clinton, the Forked Tongue Express

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:16:31 GMT

Edwards was sharp, but was he too sharp? Many seemed to find his harangues over the top. Biden (There's a part of me that loves this guy!) was his usual, glib self, beginning a war of words with Rudy that's sure to continue. Obama not a sharp as Edwards, or a master of the one-liner like Biden had, to me his best moment when answering the question about whether he'd pledge to prevent Iran from acquiring nukes, when he spoke of civil liberties, it was the only time his rhetoric soared.
Clinton withstood 2 on 1, three on one, and even four on one attacks and held her own. Today's antiHillaries topic will be, "driver's licenses", because the Iran/Iraq and Social Security issues were pretty much handled last night. She also addressed the, "What's her position"? questions very well. She stood her ground in that steady, unspectacular style of hers and endured.
I agree with (I think) Craig Crawford, who said that that Hillary's challengers are better off attacking the electability issue than policy issues, where they really haven't gotten much traction.

I missed Gravel, because you can't have the SEVEN DWARVES without, "Grumpy".

Bottom line: Look for sharper attacks, more negative campaigning and advertising by Hillary's rivals, and little change before the real voting begins.

Van

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Tuck,Realityville, KS — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:17:07 GMT

hmmm, why did obama flip flop on his stand on SS?

Take a look at what he said last May , and what he said now.

Pandering

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

nuanced — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:17:22 GMT

First Read, since you like the boxing analogy, did anyone hit below the belt?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Adam Columbus OH — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:17:25 GMT

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY

" It's interesting that no other First Lady in history has been asked to release their personal papers."

It's interesting that no other First lady in history has run for POTUS.

"I think Bill Richardson was right when he said Democratic Candidates need to stop ripping into each other (in particular, ripping into Hillary)and save some spitfire for the republiCANTS."

I think Bill Richardson passed his job interview for VP.

"Democrats, tearing up other Democrats and lots of in-party bickering."

We can do it now or the Republicans will most certainly do it later. All the sharp elbows thrown in this debate were policies, positions, substance: Iran, immigration, etc. That is the purpose of a debate and all was fair game. If you want a recitation of talking points, and platitudes, visit any candidate's website.

Elizabeth Sullivan, San Diego, CA

Well said. The number of American's that will be persuaded by the "don't pick on me, I'm a girl" defence Sen. Clinton's partisans seem to be going with is most certainly far below 50%. Consider:

The next president will inherit two wars (Iraq/Afghanistan), neither of which are going particulary well. The candidate least like Bush will win in '08, whether or not that is s Democrat remains to be seen.

Revisit some of Guliani's debates from his mayoral campaigns: the man was a prosecutor and can and will ruthlessly pick apart any discrepencies.

I am a Democrat, and I am desperate at this point for a Democrat in the White House, but we will be making a huge, huge mistake buying anything sight unseen.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

nuanced — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:19:31 GMT

being a "gaffe machine" didn't seem to prevent Bush from winning so that must not be important except for reporters

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mark, Des Moines — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:19:59 GMT

You have no clue regarding what's really happening on the ground in Iowa, just as the "political experts" (a real misnomer) were clueless in 03 leading up to 04.

Statements of one newspaper columnist, who was trying to come up with an explanation regarding why his newspapers poll numbers two days before the Iowa caucus was so off, are accepted as fact. As opposed to caucus night rambling, or a guess, and the statement is repeated so often it becomes "political fact".

For example the idea that Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt lost because they went negative, and "Iowans" don't like negative ads is an absolute joke, and those claiming this to be true can't point to one study (that would pass any academic scrutiny)that verifies this "political fact", not only because no such study exists, but because its false, and no amount of revisionist history will make it true. Have any of the talking heads, or journalist that repeat this line actually looked to see if there is a basis for this claim? If they have why do they repeat it knowing its false? I assume like so much political reporting they simply parrot what others tell them. The claim that Iowans punish candidates who resort to negative ads/attacks is the "accepted reality" among pundits, however apparently someone has forgotten to tell Iowa politicians about this "fact", or Iowa voters!

The truth is Iowans say they don't like negative ads at the same numbers as the rest of the country. The majority of people polled anywhere in the country claim they don't like negative ads. However the reality is negative ads are effective in Iowa, as they are elsewhere. The only time a negative ad back fires is when the ad crosses a line. That line seems to move, what would have been over the top 20 years ago isn't even considered negative anymore. When a GOP millionaire (using mostly his own money) claimed freshmen Congressman Bruce Braley was endorsed by the Communist party during the 06 election for an open congressional seat, that ad was considered over the top, and it had a backlash, but Bruce was already ahead of Mike Whalen, and would have won without the ad. The ads for the Democratic primary for Governor (and for the congressional seat Bruce won)were very negative, and voters did not punish the candidate with the most, in either number or content, negative ads. In fact in both the GOP congressional race the GOP and Democrat with the most (in number) of negative ads won their 3 way primary battle, and the person who came in second in the race also was second in the number of negative ads. The candidate in both the GOP and Democratic 1st district congressional primary who came in a very distant last, was the candidate with only positive ads, and said he would not attack his primary opponents. The candidate who came in third in the Democratic primary (who was going to run on his record, ...) was the Democratic nominee in 04. So no negative campaigning has no different effect in Iowa than in PA, CA, or anywhere else.

It is not true that Gephardt and Dean lost because of the negative ads that were run in late December early January. I caucused for Gephardt in 88, in 03 when I was deciding who to support (in time and Money) I ruled out both Gephardt and Dean by June. I knew Gephardt had been the biggest cheerleader for the war, and he still refused to admit things weren't going just great. I probably agreed with Dean on more issues than anyone else in the race, but it didn't need a national poll, a PhD in political science etc to know he was not electable. That may be a poor reflection on our country, but it was clear to me that nominating Dean, who I like and respect, would be ensuring Bush would be President until January 09. Dean's electability (like Clinton's) was discussed for months before the candidates mentioned it.

People did not reject Gephardt and Dean because of their negative ads, look at Deans poll numbers, he had a ceiling of 20 %, he rarely was above 20% in Iowa. As flawed as caucus polling is, given Dean was always at or around 20%, and ended up getting 18% there is no basis to the claim that Dean lost support close to the caucus. Dean was the only candidate to receive actual caucus support within the margin of error of his polling numbers. Yes there were some (maybe even 2%)Dean supporters who intended to caucus for him that let their head not their heart dictate who they'd caucus for, but the overwhelming number of Dean supporters in December that attended the caucus, supported Dean, not Kerry, Edwards, etc. at the caucus.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Lura, Philadlephia, PA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:20:29 GMT

You can say that Hillary was still standing at the end of the debate. Standing in the middle of a lot of bad answers. I think it was most crucial that she was forced to reveal that she will continue with active combat roops in Irag; that she voted for Kyle/Lieberman before there have been any negotiations with Iran; that she has said different things to different people on how she will deal with Social Security; that she will defend giving drivers' licenses to illegal aliens (but in the same breath will say she might not); and that she is the candidate who receives the most money from lobbyists, including the defense department. These are the posiitions that she is standing for, and we can choose who we nominate.

All the other candidates, except Richardson, look so much stronger, and smarter on the issues, than Hillary Clinton.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Holly, Maryland — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:20:47 GMT

I don't understand why the questions posed to Biden and Richardson by Chris Matthews after the debate were esentially only about what they thought of Hillary's performance.
If given the chance to elaborate on any topic, why would these gentleman want to talk about another candidate.
Is that the best that Matthews can do?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Sierra, SF — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:22:09 GMT

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY:

CRY BABY !!
CRY BABY !!

You can't stand anyone asking Hillary Hard questions

'...Oh, and Russert gets the Neo-Con Newsman of The Night award for asking about Hilary's personal papers. It's interesting that no other First Lady in history has been asked to release their personal papers...'

She claims her 'experience as a 'glorified housewife' qualifies her to be President.
Why WON'T SHE RELEASE HER PAPERS ?
What is she hiding ?

Hillary didn't give a straight answer to any question last night.

The post debate commentary pointed out that she'll do even worse in smaller debates

The FORKED TONGUE EXPRESS WILL LOSE !!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Looking for the Truth — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:22:53 GMT

Of the top three Edwards won the debate. As normal Hillary didn’t want to commit to anything so that she can go with the prevailing wind further down the road. Hillary pretty much kicked ass through most of the debate; however, the archive question had her double talking and reaching pretty low to come up with a faux answer which showed her true Clinton colors. Fortunately for her the max two questions were asked and the moderators had to ask someone else a question before they got back to her for a follow-up and by that time she changed the subject. She definitely got caught in the double talk on the driver licenses for immigrants and I think that actually hurt her more than some think. Richardson was an idiot; Biden was Biden; Dennis was out of this world; Edwards did well and the Far Left, unions and lawyers probably loved him; Obama did halfway dissent for the first time, and Dodd actually sounded like the most intelligent one in the pack. I haven’t heard from Van today and I hope he wasn’t too traumatized by last night’s debate.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Ashe, SF CA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:25:04 GMT

Well said Elizabeth Sullivan. It's time for the Hillo-philes to stop crying foul.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Daniel, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:25:10 GMT

Campaign Diaries's summary is rather similar. The quick summary: Clinton attacked Bush; Obama, Edwards and Dodd attacked Clinton; Kucinich attacked everybody; and Biden delivered clever one-liners. The result: Obama and Edwards did what they needed to do, but Clinton (barely) managed to stay afloat...
Full rundown and analysis: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/10/philadelphia-debate-no-more-mike-gravel.html

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:26:46 GMT

It looked like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly were running the show instead of impartial moderators-as they should have been.

LOL Susan:

So finally, the men decided they had enough of Hillary and her flip flopping and tried to pry an answer out of her and now the women are pissed because Hillary got taken to task for her plans.

Of course, Hillary did not answer any questions last night (which didn't surprise me). She got caught in a flip flop and couldn't fight her way out of it. Chris Matthews threw her under the bus by offering Obama some tips and Obama went after her (finally).

Now the women are all upset because Hillary got picked on. If that is the way Hillary handles a tough debate, she had better man up next year (if she wins the nomination) and prepare a little better. last night was not her greatest night.

And with all the problems she has facing her coming up, she had better start talking about her plans and start talking about specifics instead of not answering the questions. A normal person saw she still has something to hide and one has to wonder if it really is Bill Clinton pulling her strings.

The only way people can take Hillary Clinton seriously is for her to start taking the campaign seriously.

If Rush and Bill were asking her questions last night, her campaign would have been finsihed last night.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

JLY, Portland, OR — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:27:13 GMT

I think Hillary is viable candidate for President of the United States. She proved it last night. She was focused on the issues and not on those bunch of idiots like Edwards and Obama who looked like they were confused. Voters are interested in addressing social issues that affect their lives and not criticism. To me the kind of attacks Edwards and Obama displayed last night showed they are weak and they do not focuse on issues.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Crystal (Time for change) — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:28:56 GMT

I think Tim Russert does a good job as a moderator, I don't think he is hard on any candidate, I think he is prepared and if they say something that contradicts previous actions or statements then he calls them on it and asks them to explain. I was impressed. I think people think he was hard on Hillary, simply b/c she didn't never answer any questions that he asked, he was just trying to get a straight answer. He did that with all the candidates.

Susan says, "..was painfully obvious that Tim Russert(asking her many questions, some ridiculous) was attempting to throw his male weight around and try to trip her up."

I just want to know which questions did he ask that were ridiculous, questions about Social Security, Immigration, Iran, Iraq? Seriously what questions (plural as you noted in your comment) did he ask the Senator that were "ridiculous"

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

*Elle McCulloch — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:31:05 GMT

Shame, shame on all of you against Hillary. Be respectful to your first female President of the U.S. I was shocked at Tim Russert who has always been one of my favorites but Tim---you blew it or are you being cagey here? Hill has more intestinal fortitude, class (yes, class)and more experience than all of them combined. Mark my word, she is our next and first female president. GOD GO WITH YOU HILLARY.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Jim B., Towanda, PA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:31:35 GMT

It seems the normal Hillary cult followers are a little testy today. Based on their attacking everyone in a child like manner with their personal attacks and blaming others for Hillary's shortcomings Hillary must not have done so well at last nights debate.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

James — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:32:08 GMT

If you are a Hillary Clinton supporter, do you even know what her stands are in terms of giving drivers liscenses to illegal immigrants?

Clinton also mentioned that she wants fiscal responsibility first before she offers a specific plan on social security. If you are a Clinton supporter, you need to ask her what how she plans on "fiscal responsibility" and how long it will take to achieve it before she tackles the issue of social security. This of social security is not a joke its going to affect you and me and more important your children so is a serious issue that needs to be addressed now and not later!

There is a reason why as Obama,Dodd, and Edwards say that Republicans are "obsessed" with Hillary Clinton. There is nothing she can do about it and that is a fact. Even if you vote her President, do you think all of a sudden in the next four years that she and the Republicans will start "holding hands saying Kumbaya" and start passing leglislation? THING ABOUT IT?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

mad in Madtown — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:33:22 GMT

Biden '08

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

RAH — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:33:43 GMT

I can't believe the Hillary supporters crying this morning and blaming Tim Russer and Brian for asking her tough questions. Obama, let Hillary get away with her non answers throughout the previous debates, so he can call her on her bs when people started paying attention. No point in holding her feet to fire until the right moment. How many more debates will there be? She better get used to being on the defense. If she can't substantially defend herself, how will she be able to defend the country.

When Hillary first started running for POTUS, she came out swing. She'll deck her opponents if she's attacked. Now she gets a little punch from Obama and Edwards and she and her supporters are wincing and whining and crying, the MEN were all picking on poor, poor Hillary. Give me a break!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Real PolitiK — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:34:00 GMT

There was no real winner in the Debate.
Obama did ok.

Edwards did what any desperate politician does eventually and that is to be candid. He nailed Hillary time after time.

Hillary stood her ground by turning every question into the "Bush did it" slogan. She is by far the best candidate at slogans (ala Bush). Her slip up on the immigration question frankly was no different to how she answered all the questions. Furthermore she noticed Dodd's excellent answer to the immigration question...and she wanted to steal some points from Dodd on the issue...but she failed because she wanted the points without exposing herself...Dodd deserves credit for not accepting her pathetic answer.

The other candidates are jockeying for the VP position. It appears that Richardson is now in the lead as his defense of Clinton showed. Dennis K saw a UFO...enough said.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:34:36 GMT

Ahhhh Merle:

I know more about the issues then Hillary ever could.
At least I talk about them in here.......

We are still waiting for Hillary's proposals. Judging from last night's debate, we are going to waiting a long time for her stands on the issues.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mike K, Denver — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:35:07 GMT

As much as I hate to do it, I have to agree with Jerry. Hillary got straight up jacked last night by both Obama and Edwards. She couldn't give a straight answer if Brian Williams put a gun to her head.

Anytime she got cornered on an issue, she turned it into an opportunity to berate the current administration. DUH Hillary! We all know how much they truly suck. Why do you think this campaign started almost 18 months before we start voting? Stop stalling and answer the questions.

Why do you want to keep those papers secret? Why did you get your hubby to lock them by executive order? To say that the National Archives are working as fast as possible is an outright lie. They arern't working on anything because none of your papers are available for release. Don't play us for the dumb imbiciles you think we are.

My rankings last night:
1. Edwards
2. Obama
3. Biden
4. Dodd
5. Richardson
6. Clinton
7. Kucinich (Please stop talking about impeachment!)

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Sara, Cedar Rapids, Iowa — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:37:00 GMT

Sen Biden spoke for fewer minutes than any other candidate, including I see UFO's Kucinich, please stop being mean to poor Hillary Richardson, and Trial lawyer money is bad (although I love hedge fund managers money) Dodd, and yet clips from the few opportunities he was given to speak were repeated over and over again.

Once again Biden demonstrated with less than 6 minutes of air time, why he is the best candidate for President.

Fortunately Iowans not the media will decide who wins the caucus. I just wish that the networks would get rid of these pundits who have no real clue whats going on the ground, when once again they grasp for explanations why all their predictions about what is going to happen in Iowa turn out to be wrong. But I won't hold my breath that there will be accountability, or that the "journalist" will learn and not repeat the same mistakes in 2012, 2016....

I have an idea, I realize I'm merely a naive Iowan, but how about a little less horse race coverage, especially given the poor track record of the horse race coverage, and lets actually have candidates on the shows talking about substantive issues. And just maybe these "journalist" could do their home work before the interview, and when the candidate states they support eliminating defense waste (s-chip, whatever), the "journalist" doesn't say, but how are you going to beat Hillary when your down in the polls, instead the "journalist" says now, Senator (Mayor, Governor, etc.) you voted in favor of this, or against that, and actually challenge the candidate. Is that responsible journalism?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mike K, Denver — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:37:03 GMT

<<Jerry you obviously did not watch the debate last night. Hillary was attacked on several times, but in the end, she held her own and proved to all of the other candidates that she is not afraid of them and looked the most presidential. I can't wait until she debates Guiliani and tears that loser apart. By the time Guiliani get through his stutters, Hillary will eat this man alive. Go Hillary GO! >>

You must've been watching the debate without any sound.

Maybe we need to take on some of Cheney's ideas on how to extract answers and information from people to get something resembling an actual answer to a question out of Hillary. Seriously, she didn't answer anything cleanly, even outside their "Lightning Round".

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Bee — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:37:48 GMT

Jan Erik,

Now the spin are in. Hillary support the third program. Hillary supporters are on cool aid. ha!ha!ha!

The verdicts is out, Hillary has no credibility when it comes to issues that matter to us. No more Neo-Con agenda in the democratic party.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Toris — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:38:18 GMT

Wow! I thought Clinton was going to run away with it last night but i guess wrongly. At this point the best bet is to stay tune. This election is just getting started. I suspect the media will do their job like Tim Russert did last night by asking tough questions.

No more vagueness when it comes to issues that matter to me. I am going to pay attention more to Edward and Obama. They both seems to be honest about our challenges. I think my money will be going to the two of them. They have credibility on all the issues compare to Senator Clinton. They are fortright in their answers and are more transparent.

I am sure the Clinton's bloggers will want us to believe otherwise. The supporters of Hillary Clinton are surely on cool aid for blaming Tim. No more secrets in our government

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

squintz, philly, pa — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:38:21 GMT

J. Merle - No, it's not interesting, since no other First Lady in history has run for President six years after she leaves the White House. The "both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue" line is adorable, but talk about irrelevant if no one is allowed to look at the record.

I thought Biden was, as usual, fantastic. Of course, since every debate is like a Sesame Street episode brought to us by the letter "I" there were only a smattering of relevant domestic issues raised, but his and Obama's answers regarding the extended public school year were real winners. In 30 seconds, Biden hit on 3 crucial weaknesses of public education, Obama managed to go from extending the school year to teacher pay to increased research funding to improve math and scientific career choices - phew! Great stuff!

And, I might have to make a t-shirt with Guiliani's face, a speech bubble, and Biden's BRILLIANT "Noun, verb, and 9/11" quote. If he runs, it will almost be worth it for the jokes.

Chuck T., gotta agree with you on Dodd's legislative rambling. I think that type of campaigning comes across as stodgy and regressive. His little "The View" style split screen with Clinton was pretty firey, though.

I must disagree, however, about Edwards performance. He makes many good points, but really comes across as childish, viscious and unstatesmanlike towards Clinton. I think it's his tone more than anything - not "holier-than-thou" necessarily, as Richardson the brown-noser put it, it just seems like whining. He did get in a few good one-liners, however, so maybe that will do him more good than the personality will do him harm.

Anyway, a good debate. Poor ol' Kucinich, Russert really had it out for him. Nice work with the comeback, Kucinich!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Real PolitiK — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:38:26 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:38:55 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Ricardo in California — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:40:34 GMT

Adam in Ohio you need to read Jan Eriks entry.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Bee — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:42:06 GMT

The verdict is out, No more double talk. Finally, we see Hillary Clinton that is not fort right with America people. She is the master of flip flop. She thinks the driver licence program make sense but she won’t take a stand on it.

Obama and Edward were right to go after her on the issues that matters to me. No more secret affair with our government. Clinton doesn’t have any credibility whatsoever.

Edward - A+
Obama - A-
Chris Dodd - B+
Biden - B
Richardson - D+
Clinton - F

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

FACT # 2 / AZ — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:42:08 GMT

FACT # 2

Does America want four more years of purjury and scandal????

The Clinton platform and track record is noted for their lies and deception, for the misuse and perverted manner of their conduct while in the White House. From turning the White House into a sleeze motel for the rich, Bring past scandal as unwanted baggage to Washington ""White Water"",, Acts of moral conduct less becoming of a President.

Fact is the only manner to see truth!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mike K, Denver — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:42:35 GMT

<<I didn't get to watch the debate last night, so I can't comment. I am interested in reading about your reactions in your posts today. I gather that Mr. Russert again was especially hard on Senator Clinton.
He did the same thing in the previous debate--maybe he isn't the best choice for moderator because I read
somewhere that in a well run debate, no one notices the moderators, the focus is all on the debate participants. Any comments on how you think the debate went would be welcome. (I am being serious) I think this blog gives a very accurate reading and a good cross section of views of the average American voters regarding the candidates. >>

He was "tough" on her because even when she's appeared on "Meet the Press" she can't give a straight up answer to a question without hop-scotching around it for 15 minutes. He was "tough" on her because the other candidates took the time to give well thought out answers to the question asked. Yes, they took digs at President Bush, but they did so in the context of answering the questions posed. Hillary did it just to take swipes at the administration and think both Russert and the people watching wouldn't notice she had no f---ing idea HOW to answer or even what her position was.

If that's being "tough" on Hillary, so be it. She's running for President and she better start answering the questions we want answered or she's going to begin to find it very difficult to be taken seriously as a candidate.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Barbara Billings, Houston,Tx. — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:43:20 GMT

When all is said and done at the end of the day. Hillary will be the next President and one of the greatest leaders this nation has ever had.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:43:28 GMT

Nuanced:

Judging from some of the comments in here, i have to argue with you over your last statement.

People do not care whether Hillary Clinton is a winner......

They only care because she is a woman.....

Her campaign platform proves that without a doubt...

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Ricardo in California — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:43:57 GMT

Bee and Jerry in Corpus Christi keep insisting the Hillary release her records. What should happen is for Bush/Cheney to release their records so america is aware of what the next President is about to inherit. What Hillary did as First Lady probably pales in comparison to what Bush/Cheney are about to leave behind.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Sierra, SF — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:44:26 GMT

Roman, Davie, FL: '... I am not sure why Hillary's driver license answer was consider a "gotcha moment"...'

Roman, it was a 'gotcha' because Hillary tried to say she was for it, then she said she was against it.
As Edwards said, she gave two different answers in two minutes.
That was Hillary's technique the whole debate.

She said she voted for the Iran war amendment to promote diplomacy !!!!
But, the Bush regime DOESN'T NEED Kyl-Lieberman to negotiate with Iran.
As Obama said, she was moving from 'primary mode positions' to a 'general election position'.

Why not have a PRINCIPLED POSITION instead of trying to pander to whatever she thinks people want to hear ?

That's why she supported the Iraq war in the first place.

What does Hillary stand for ?
Instead of standing for the national interest and her own beliefs, she's just pandering.

PS
Biden did well, too
His comment on Giuiliani being the 'most underqualified' was spot on.
a noun, a verb and '911'

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Alan in Phx — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:45:58 GMT

The only thing going for Hillary on this is that it was on MSNBC and nobody watches. I only saw just the highlights and what is being written and I would suppose that is where the majority of the public will get their information on this.

Hillary will live to fight another day and this will not keep her from being the front runner, but it will cost her money to repair the damage.

Other than most wonks nobody knew that there were 3 id proposals for NY, so here incoherent answer is going to get you tubed to death.

The WH papers question will hurt her more, in the long run, than the id thing as it goes right to the I'm hiding something questions about her.

All those b-day donations are being spent this morning.

I thought the debate was in Philly not area 51

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mike K, Denver — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:45:59 GMT

<<Clinton's followers are no different then Ron Paul's.
jerry/corpus christi texas
--- not fair jerry. Ron Paul's followers are motivated by principles (why else stick with a sure loser), while Hillary's followers want to be with the winner. >>

ITYM:
...while Hillary's supporters want to be with the inferred 'cool kids' on the block.
HTH!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Susan, Miami — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:46:55 GMT

Bee dear, the Edwards candidacy is still almost dead. Hillary made one mistake and handled herself well in the middle of a jr high locker room full of insecure boys. This attack on her will backfire with MANY women. Edwards and Obama are way too weak and will easily be picked apart by the nasty repub swift boaters. She is still standing and.. my guess is-will be even MORE powerful next debate. Remember, shes a Clinton. They don't go away very easily, only become stronger.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

JeanneGA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:51:40 GMT

Hillary won last night because she is sooo far ahead the others got nothing to stand on.She did well considering all the attacks.She has still got my vote.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

diane — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:51:44 GMT

good summary. However, I do agree strongly that the press storyline and obsession of the inevitable one has been pushing up Hillary's numbers at the expense of the others. they have ignored or put down the other candidates to promote this silly storyline. The press really needs to get away from notions of what a story will be in advance and let things play out their natural course instead.
I think what the press has overlooked is that Obama is not going to play pit bull. He is trying to take politics away from the way things have been like for the past 20 years. He would be a hypocrite if he acted just like the clintons and got outright nasty. he wants to fix the problem. However, to do so and still point out Hillary's problems is delicate. I felt he did it well. He did it with grace and he stuck with alot of substance and the issues and why she is wrong.
The days of the slimy attack style politics are over and the people are so sick of it.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:52:56 GMT

he MSNBC on-line poll, which is always skewed young and favoring someone like Edwards or Barack, has Hillary winning. Whatever your opinion, it shows that the general opinion is that she did more than OK and reflects the fact that even an effective attack has a blow-back factor on the attacker. If the opposition is reduced to the kind of attacking that goes on here, it could ultimately result in having the opposite of the intended effect.

Who stood out from the pack? Clinton-26, Obama-26, Edwards-20

Who showed the most leadership qualities? Clinton-29, Obama-28, Edwards-15

Who was the most convincing candidate? Obama-28, Clinton-26, Edwards-18, Biden-14

Obama has won these on line polls pretty big in the past, so this is a surprise to me.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21528788/

Van

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mike K, Denver — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:52:57 GMT

<<hmmm, why did obama flip flop on his stand on SS?

Take a look at what he said last May , and what he said now.

Pandering
>>

May: All options are on the table.
Today: My policy would be A, B, and C.

Makes sense to me that in 6 months he could develop an actual idea and policy to present to people. Remember, he's trying to be President of the United States. People expect to hear real, live ideas come out of people and not the canned response of "everything's on the table."

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:53:43 GMT

Shame, shame on all of you against Hillary. Be respectful to your first female President of the U.S.

she needs to earn our respect....
Last night didn't help......

Susan says, "..was painfully obvious that Tim Russert(asking her many questions, some ridiculous) was attempting to throw his male weight around and try to trip her up."

Susan has already proven to us she does not care about the issues, she only cares about her being elected as a woman, which is about 90% of the women that are backing Hillary Clinton, they care nothing about the issues. Hillary did nothing last night to show how she feels about the issues.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Dante (Largo, Maryland) — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:53:54 GMT

Susan, I am a Clinton supporter as well but didn't it bother you on her inability to answer clearly about Social Security, Driver's Licensing for Illegal Immigrants, and she was really not clear cut in her answer about Iran. The wording she used was really preemptive and made me think that she would go to war in a heartbeat!! What do you think? Did anything about her answers bother you as well?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

William Chadwell, Indialantic, Florida — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:54:02 GMT

I think Hillary is still the winner,however I worry that the Democrats may lose Florida because of this boycott idea of the Democratic Party.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

MK,MO — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:54:22 GMT

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY

would you quit whimpering because someone finally tried to make hillary answer a direct question, face it hillary won't be able to handle the inevitable debate about what she is by the republican candidates, hopefully she will see the light and step aside so a less polarizing and divisive dem candidate can win in 08, because she can't.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

we need Edwards for a change — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:54:29 GMT

Pleased all you Hillary defenders are pathetic, she is a liar, she tells people what they want to hear, this way she can get elected she doesnt give a damn about anyone or anything but furthering herself and will use anyone to get it. Anytime confronted with a tough question she does a little dance and then starts blaming something on the republicans, she is the worst choice in the country for president.
As for poor Hillary being picked on, hey she wants to play on the varsity team she is going to have to suck it up and deal with it, if she wasnt so wishy washy adn two-faced it wouldnt seem she was being picked on..this isnt grade school its a race for the president of the greatest country in the world...all you poor hillary fans need to get over yourself. you really want a change vote for John Edwards, he really wants to help and doesnt change his story every other question.
Hillary got called on her flip flop stands and finally had to answer to it and everyone thinks she is being picked on, but when she spouts stuff about everyone else its okay...If you want to play thems the rules girls...did she think because she was the only woman running that no one would call her out on her lies, well too bad...

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

we need Edwards for a change — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:54:29 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mike K, Denver — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:56:33 GMT

Van, Van, Van...

Hillary sucked it last night. Again, she couldn't have given a straight answer if Tim Russert AND Brian Williams were holding guns to her head. Almost made me wish Dick Cheney were there to get her to give up something resembling an actual answer.

Unless she starts coming forward with something other than anti-Bush rhetoric, people (especially those in Iowa) won't vote for her. She won't take a stand and say what she believes in and what she'd do. We've suffered through enough secrecy. We want and demand answers now. The other candidates realize it. Why won't Hillary? What is she hiding other than the fact she is totally and completely unqualified to be President?

I wouldn't be surprised that she loses her seat in the Senate next time around based on this election. People in NY aren't stupid. If she isn't answering things now, why should they believe anything she tells them down the line.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:58:15 GMT

Van:

Must have missed it last night.....
What did she say up on stage about Social Security?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:01:22 GMT

When all is said and done at the end of the day. Hillary will be the next President and one of the greatest leaders this nation has ever had.

After last night's performance, she better just stay in the Senate and collect her paycheck......

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Adam Columbus OH — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:02:41 GMT

Ricardo in California

Regarding the 3 different types of licenses:

I did read that entry, and was simply unpersuaded by it. It took me less than 30 seconds to read it, and certainly Sen. Clinton (who we are constantly told is so intelligent, so well informed) could have deliniated the differences and stated the position in that time frame. The 'format stinks' excuse is weak and no candidate of either party should get a pass on it. Sen Chlinton simply flubbed the question, and quite rightly got called out on it.

"Bee and Jerry in Corpus Christi keep insisting the Hillary release her records. What should happen is for Bush/Cheney to release their records so america is aware of what the next President is about to inherit. What Hillary did as First Lady probably pales in comparison to what Bush/Cheney are about to leave behind."

I don't know if it "pales in comparison" or not, and quite frankly neither do you, though I suspect you are right. Sen. Clinton could clear all that up very easily by releasing the records. The "I'm the most experienced and ready to lead" is simply a vacuous platitute without the evidence to back it up. Prove it.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:04:31 GMT

Sierra.......your post begs the question; what the hell were YOU watching last night? 'Cause it sure wasn't the Democratic debate.
Obama came off as Giuliani-lite. He and Edwards did the same thing repiubliCANTS are doing, which is to attack Senator Clinton.
Both of them have yet to show their agendas or qualifications beyond bitching about Hillary being in the lead.
And by the way; why should Hillary release ANY of personal papers? No other First Lady in history has been asked to do that. Why the new set of rules when it comes to her? (Of course the answer to that is simple. It is a neo-con attack strategy that's designed to embarrass and intimidate her.)
Hey Sierra...
** What is Obama's position on negotiating with terrorists?
** Why won't he wear an American Flag on his lapel? ** Why doesn't he hold his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is playing?
** When will he come clean about his relationship with underworld figure Antoin Rezko?
...and who's this gay guy he has making appearances for him,...saying that god cured him of being gay?
What did this guy do,...go to the Ted Haggard Two Week Methamphetamine and Gayness Rehabilitation Center for Blow Hard Evangelists?
Nope, sorry sierra. Nice try, but no cigar.
Bush already used the line(s) that Jesus was his running mate, and that all gay people are bad. All that does is make Lil' Barracky look like a republiCANT biggot, and we aren't going to put another one of those in the White House for a very long time. (What's next, is Obama going to choke on a pretzel and fall off his bike?)
Hillary did fine last night, and she's going to be the nominee whether you like it or not.
Obama is just another biggoted religious nut with an agenda that he wants to ram down everyone's throat.
No thanks....been there, done that.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

FREEMAN FEMALE, Dallas, TX — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:08:37 GMT

Quick Analysis Summary (First Read Take Notes)

Clinton: Can Dish it but Cannot take it. That goes for the posters of the Women Defending Hillary also.

Van: Not Surprisingly, Cannot Quote a Poll Number this morning because there is none showing in Clinton's favor.

Edwards: Attack Dog in Rare Form. But people kill Mad Dogs so he better be careful in Iowa.

Jerry, Corpus: You are swinging at every pitch but you can knock out any Democrats compared to the Republican Field of Non-Dream Candidates.

BIDEN: Best Line EVER!!!!! but he has too much baggage. Secretary of State would be well deserved but HE cannot control his mouth. We would be at war with half the world with him running his mouth.

Richardson: Nice play trying to defend YOUR FORMER Boss's WIFE so your motive is VERY SUSPECT.

Obama: VERY RESPECTFUL. You can point out DIFFERENCES without being NASTY or DIVISIVE. We have had 16 YEARS of that with the Bushs and the Clintons.

FIRST READ: Because of Hillary's fall, I think these past few hours of postings by U have been fair and balanced. You finally took off the CYNICS' Glasses to do a detailed analysis.

Tim Russert, Brian Williams: I would love to see you host a debate again.

TUCK;Because last can be least. You are one of those Harold Ford Racists that the rest of the country will IGNORE in the future including me.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

OutWest; Canyon Country, CA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:08:48 GMT

Wow, based on these comments, I must have missed the 3 or 4 debate shows on TV last night. I thought there was only 1.
As for me I can't wait for a caucus or primary election to be held, then everything becomes real rather than the fantasy world we're in now.
I still won't tell you who I favor.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Thomas Frischknecht — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:10:39 GMT

Elizabeth Sullivan, well said!! Read her comments above.

As an independent I was looking for one candiate to step up and show that he/she can be presidential and stick to a position and strategy for once without giving us the usual Washinton spin. I have to say that Sen. Clinton was a real disapointment and as expected rarely answered a question. We have seen Hillary under pressure and she buckelt. Her body language told stories. We got a rare glimps of the "real" Hillary Clinton.

What I would really like to see if for once a moderator (or candiate) would flat out ask Hillary after one of her "elaborate" and "slippery" statements on HOW she would do or accomplish one of the things she said she promises she would do and not letting her of the hook until she answers. Most likley she would have to say "I don't know", which is most likely the truth. I am so tired of all this talk and promises of any candiates without clear definition on how they will accomplish it. If they can't do that then it is simply just empty promises and ususal "Washington talk", something we need much less in this election.

Also I would really like to know what her 38 year of experience is truly about. She makes it sound like she was running the White House, etc.

Also, her for standing up for Family values... you got to be kidding me... the Clinton's standing for family values after all we have seen since Pres. Clinton started his first term. After all we have seen on how the Clinton's deal with values? No thank you! The last example I will use for my four childern are the Clinton's.

I was positively suprised by Biden and his clear message. I don't think he has a chance in this election but I think he is probably the one with the most clear message.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Daniel, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:11:17 GMT

Quinnipiac has a new national general election poll (and 12 match-ups total), with Clinton slightly weakening. Full numbers here: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/10/morning-polls-fletcher-six-days-away.html

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mike K, Denver — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:12:44 GMT

<<Bee and Jerry in Corpus Christi keep insisting the Hillary release her records. What should happen is for Bush/Cheney to release their records so america is aware of what the next President is about to inherit. What Hillary did as First Lady probably pales in comparison to what Bush/Cheney are about to leave behind. >>

The archives are required after a length of time to release anything that isn't considered a "national security" issue at some future point.

What happens with Bush and Cheney's papers don't matter now. They aren't running again. You're comparing apples to kiwis. We want Hillary's papers because she said that her time as First Lady qualifies her to be Presidet without giving any specifics. We want the papers to see exactly what she did, outside f---ing up the healthcare initiative Clinton attempted, that qualifies her for what realistically is the highest office in the World.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Bee — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:13:06 GMT

Susan, Miami,

I am not buying your women arguement. It won't fly at all. America people want someone that is honest and trust worthy. I guess you took all women for a fool. Well, i watch the debate with bunch of women last night and they were all dissapointed with Hillary.

We know where Edward and Obama stands on issues. we might not like their position but they are being honest with us. I appreciate a straight talker than a wishy washy person.

I realized our women appreciate someone that mean what they says and say what they mean. Just like that "baby face song".

Clinton is not electable and she is too wishy washy.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:13:33 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Dave, Tn — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:16:27 GMT

That was one funny debate. So what was the official msnbc count on how many times Bush's name was mentioned? I was only half paying attention when they were talking about Iran. It mostly sounded like when and if any of them are President they'll stand up to Bush in Crawford. I'll have to watch the tape again :-)

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Gary, Franklin, WI — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:16:32 GMT

These "one the ropes" descriptions about Hillary Clinton do not describe what I saw and heard last night. Did she take some punches, yes. Could she have expressed her views more clearly in one or two occasions, yes again. Were others on the stage strong and articulate at times, of course. But compared to the rest of the field, Clinton remains the strongest and most focused on both winning the nomination and finding a path to a general election victory.

The silliest post-debate analysis on MSNBC was about illegal immigration. It came late in the debate and caused a lot of "confusion", in part because the reporters had not yet found a significant Clinton weakness. The only reason people might be confused, is they were not listening carefully to what was said, as too often occurs on issues relating to illegal immigration!

Any confusion was compounded by the fact that MSNBC never replayed the entire exchange.

In case some of you have forgotten, driver licenses is a responsibility left to the states. If Clinton made any mistake in her answer to the question, it was not making crystal clear that she understands the conflict a Governor or State Legislature faces on this question. After all, they are the officials ultimately responsible for public safety in their state.

Given her experiences in Arkansas, Clinton was simply saying she understood why a Governor might take a different view than a Senator or Presidential candidate on this question, and that it might be one way of bringing illegal immigrants out of the shadows.

Unless and until Congress and the President agree on comprehensive legislation (and remember it is Congressional Republicans who stand in the way), each Governor and each State Legislature must address this question on their own!

Hillary Clinton's answer was quite clear, she disagrees with Governor Spitzer's proposal, but can understand the public safety concerns behind it and that, as a policy question, there is some logic to the concept.

With Iraq, al-Qaeda, health care, the economy, global warming, immigration, education, and so many other issues that require a federal role, how did the driver licenses and UFOs get into the debate except as a "gotcha" device? Brian Williams and Tim Russert have their own "eplaining to do".

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Amy B Portland, Me — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:17:08 GMT

Doesn't Obama have a voice coach who could break him of the habit of saying "uh" before he starts a sentence? So annoying.

I was disappointed in this debate,it was the same old same old from everybody. Biden is the only one who seems engaged in the real world and he acts like is not interested in being President. I liked Clinton best when she attacked Bush, but I kept thinking she would not do well in a debate with a Republican than this if they want to win in '08. I am back to supporting Edwards,I think he has the most potential to grow in office. We desperately need a smart, reality based President this time.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mike K, Denver — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:18:02 GMT

<<Bee dear, the Edwards candidacy is still almost dead. Hillary made one mistake and handled herself well in the middle of a jr high locker room full of insecure boys. This attack on her will backfire with MANY women. Edwards and Obama are way too weak and will easily be picked apart by the nasty repub swift boaters. She is still standing and.. my guess is-will be even MORE powerful next debate. Remember, shes a Clinton. They don't go away very easily, only become stronger. >>

It was one mistake if you consider just showing up to the debate the single mistake. She made mistake after mistake after mistake by not answering anything asked of her. I watched all but the first 10 minutes of it (dinner!) and I can't recall anything she said that made me go "so that's what she believes in."

She says what she believes voters want to hear. Hint to Hillary: What we want to hear are your principles that guide you. What do you really believe we should do about Social Security, immigration, education, Iran and Iraq (then again, her votes show where she stands, so maybe she did answer ONE thing completely), global warming and alternative energies, and healthcare? Every candidate on that stage gave answers that give us a good idea where they stand and how they will work on these issues. Hillary? Not even in the ballpark. Hell, she's lost on the interstate trying to GET to the park.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:19:38 GMT

I was mildy irritated by the fact that the focus of the debate did not seem to be so much on the issues but on Hillary. The first two questions were not on issues at all, but on what Obama and Edwards have said about Hillary. That set the tone for the entire debate, which was centered on how many ways the other candidates could highlight Hillary's problems - NOT about what the other candidates positions were on important issues. Were they there to debate policy or were they there to debate Hillary's qualifications for the nomination and/or presidency? I tuned in to see the former but got the latter.

That being said, I like this side of Edwards. To me at least, he often comes off as rather bland; I like it when he steps it up and injects some intensity into his statement. I'm still not terribly impressed by Obama - I like him well enough but I just don't think he is ready for the White House.

On the other hand, I think Biden would be perfectly suited to occupy the oval offices. He seems presidential. I think MSNBC is overstating his gaffe-able tendencies, as I don't recall him having one lately. What I do recall from Biden in recent months is consistent answers to tough questions, and a demonstration of his understanding of the complexities of the world we live in. He may not have the most money and he may not have the biggest numbers in the poll, but he's miles ahead of any of the others when it comes to actual qualifications.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Joe Justice — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:20:39 GMT

I was born and raised in Iowa and "Iowa Nice" doesn't mean sitting there and letting others walk all over you.

John Edwards was plenty "nice" -- and he was right.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Greg Warner — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:21:35 GMT

The questioning at last night's debate did not focus on the needs of our country. The questions did not focus on the serious problems that will face the next President.

Tim Russert of MSNBC is desperately trying to start a fight between the candidates. I really think that Tim is trying to something for his own career. He is not concerned about the problems that Americans have with the Iraq War and a potential war with Iran. Instead of asking questions about why are job are moving to China. He is asking questions about UFO's.

I want the Democratic party to shut these debates down before it destroys our candidates for President.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Pat Goldberg, Columbia, SC — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:22:10 GMT

I am sick of Obama saying he was against the war as though he was in a position to vote on it. He was just another voice speaking out against it just as I was, so I wish he would stop acting as though he actually voted against it . He is very likable but I do not think he has the experience to run this country. But then I don't think any of the canidates Republican or Democrat has what it will take to put this country back together again or at least ease our anxiety.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mike K, Denver — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:22:16 GMT

<<he MSNBC on-line poll, which is always skewed young and favoring someone like Edwards or Barack, has Hillary winning. Whatever your opinion, it shows that the general opinion is that she did more than OK and reflects the fact that even an effective attack has a blow-back factor on the attacker. If the opposition is reduced to the kind of attacking that goes on here, it could ultimately result in having the opposite of the intended effect.

Who stood out from the pack? Clinton-26, Obama-26, Edwards-20

Who showed the most leadership qualities? Clinton-29, Obama-28, Edwards-15

Who was the most convincing candidate? Obama-28, Clinton-26, Edwards-18, Biden-14

Obama has won these on line polls pretty big in the past, so this is a surprise to me.
>>

BWAH?!?!?!?! Did you fail math in elementary school, Van? She didn't beat anyone. It was tight according to that poll. Unscientific, which means that her numbers could, and probably are, skewed by the feminazis out there who only want Hillary because she passes the "lack of a penis" test.

More scientific polls and the pundits have her getting her back end handed to her.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Sierra, SF — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:28:36 GMT

From First Read: '...If language tells the story of the debate, then it's clear the Clinton campaign doesn't believe it won, since it is only trying to spin that "she survived." You don't say that if you think you actually won...'

Hillary's camp knows she lost !!
Their language says it all !

From the Politico:
'...The Politico’s Roger Simon says Clinton had a bad night. “… Clinton gave the worst performance of her entire campaign. It was not just that her answer about whether illegal immigrants should be issued drivers’ licenses was at best incomprehensible and at worst misleading. It was that for two hours she dodged and weaved, parsed and stonewalled.”...'

Does this sound familiar ?
Hillary has a Forked Tongue !!
Hillary won't answer the questions
Why ?
Why won't she answer the questions ?

'...Real Clear's Wilson: Edwards "stole much of the show....'

Sorry, lying Hillary Clinton is toast !!
The Edwards and Obama and Biden campaigns had better follow up on the attacks.
They will work !!
Edwards seems to be the stongest challenger.
Edwards/Obama '08 would do well

Richardson was worthless
A brown noser

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:28:52 GMT

Dante......
The Fact that no other First Lady has ever been asked to expose their personal papers is a very valid point. Running for the Presidency doesn't mean you have to give up your constitutional rights, or your right to privacy within your personal possessions. Furthermore....no other candidate in this election is being asked to do it. Why is Hillary being singled out? If transparency was the reason, and all of them were being asked to do it, I might be inclined to go along with it.
But, this is being thrown at her purely for the political gain of her opponants. THAT is both disengenuous, and dishonest.

Sierra.....
the only crybaby here is YOU.
You're STILL bitching because Hillary is winning, and Obama can't cut into that double digit lead. (By the way...where's HIS experience? What are HIS accomplishments? When will HE come clean about the Rezko land deal?)
Tsk Tsk Tsk.....sorry, no cigar.

jerry.....
You need to worry about your boys on the republiCANT side of things because they have a few mountains of crap to climb over, themselves.
Giuliani has the Fire and Police Departments in NYC to contend with, and he still needs to explain why his own kids don't like him or his new wife.
Romney needs to tell why he won't give back money that was BUNDLED by an indicted money launderer (Alan Fabian).
Both have a LOOOOONG way to go, and (as Ricky Ricardo would say) a whole lot of 'splainin' to do.
And they're BOTH running behind Hillary, by the way.
(Ha Ha)

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Adam Columbus OH — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:29:27 GMT

** What is Obama's position on negotiating with terrorists?
Speaking of Guliani lite:

** Why won't he wear an American Flag on his lapel? ** Why doesn't he hold his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is playing?
** When will he come clean about his relationship with underworld figure Antoin Rezko?
...and who's this gay guy he has making appearances for him,...saying that god cured him of being gay?

Is there a question above that is not indicitave of the irrelaventpetty wedge issues that Republicans are so artful at deploying?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Hillary Clinton — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:32:10 GMT

Hey Al, has my EPO gone thru yet. I really, really need it BaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaD.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Bee — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:34:42 GMT

Van,

This is not about poll numbers and don't switch the debate like Hillary Clinton. Defend your candidate performance.

At least Hillary supporters have been pointing to her performance in the debate for the last 6 months. What say you now?

Your candidate does not have what it takes to be president. She is not forthcoming on her records and yet she is running on that records.

Sorry, your tactical gimmicks won't win you the nomination.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Adam Columbus OH — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:36:09 GMT

Van

Thanks for the update. After almost 7 years of Bush, we absolutely need to have the 'electability' debate.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:36:14 GMT

Van:

Must have missed it last night.....
What did she say up on stage about Social Security?

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:58 AM)

You sure do have a lot of strong opinions for someone who seems to have MISSED the debate, but then you (and several others) already KNEW your opinion beforehand.

Here's the transcript. If you were half as clever as you think you are, you wouldn't be asking someone else to post it, but then you're just a republican troll...

Clinton: Well, Tim, I don't. I have said consistently that my plan for Social Security is fiscal responsibility first, then to deal with any long-term challenges which I agree are ones that we are going to have to address.

We would have a bipartisan commission. In the context of that, I think all of these would be considered. But, personally, I do not want to balance Social Security on the backs of our seniors and middle-class families. That's why I put fiscal responsibility first, because we have to change the Bush tax cuts, which I am committed to doing.

We have to move back toward a more fair and progressive tax system, and begin once again to move toward a balanced budget with a surplus. You know, part of the idea in the '90s was not just so Bill would have a check mark next to his name in history, but so that we would have the resources to deal with a lot of these entitlement problems.

George Bush understood that. The Republicans understood that. They wanted to decimate that balanced budget and a surplus because they knew that that would give them a free hand to try to privatize Social Security.

I am not going to be repeating Republican talking points. So when somebody asks me, would something like this be considered, well, anything could be considered when we get to a bipartisan commission. But personally, I am not going to be advocating any specific fix until I am seriously approaching fiscal responsibility.

Russert: But you did raise it as a possibility with Tod Bowman?

Clinton: Well, but everybody knows what the possibilities are, Tim. Everybody knows that. But I do not advocate it. I do not support it. I have laid out what I do believe, and I am going to continue to emphasize that.

I think, for us to act like Social Security is in crisis is a Republican trap. We're playing on the Republican field. And I don't intend to do that.

Russert: You call it a Republican talking point. Georgetown University, February 9, 1998: "We are in a -- heading to a looming fiscal crisis in Social Security. If nothing is done, it will require a huge tax increase in the payroll tax or a 25 percent in Social Security benefits," Bill Clinton, 1998.

That's recent history. Only two years to go in his term. Is that a Republican talking point?

Clinton: No, but what he did was to move us toward a balanced budget and a surplus. And, if you go back and you look at the numbers, they really took off starting in '98, '99, 2000, 2001.

And that would have given a president who actually believed in Social Security -- which George Bush does not -- the resources and the options to make decisions, but not the kind of draconian decisions, and certainly not the move toward privatization, which is what the Republicans have been advocating for as long as I can remember."

Van

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mike K, Denver — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:36:17 GMT

New Quinnipiac poll out; Clinton 47, Obama 21

"Former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, the Republican front-runner, leads New York Sen. Hillary Clinton by a razor-thin 45 - 43 percent, but voters say 58 - 37 percent that President George W. Bush's low approval ratings will make it difficult for any Republican to be elected President, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today.

Giuliani's lead reverses a 46 - 43 percent Sen. Clinton lead in an August 15 poll by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University, but Giuliani was up 49 - 40 percent May 3.

Illinois Sen. Barack Obama gets 43 percent to Giuliani's 42 percent. And Arizona Sen. John McCain ties Clinton 44 - 44 percent, wiping out a 47 - 41 percent Clinton lead August 15.

Clinton also has seen her favorability among American voters drop from 48 - 43 percent August 15 to 46 - 46 percent today.

"Clinton has gained strength among Democrats nationwide and now leads Obama in the primary field 47 - 21 percent, with 12 percent for Edwards. This compares to a 36 - 21 percent Clinton lead among Democrats August 15. Giuliani has gained no ground among Republicans, with a 27 - 17 percent lead over Thompson, followed by Romney with 14 percent and McCain with 13 percent. Giuliani led Romney 28 - 15 percent, with 12 percent for Thompson and 11 percent for McCain August 15."

Clinton haters will find nuggets of encouragement within.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1113

Van

-----------

Wow, another poll that doesn't have a THING to do with Iowa and New Hampshire. We aren't at the General Election yet. My guess is, for those that didn't see the debate last night but watch such programs as the Today Show and Good Morning America, you'll see the pundits slam Hillary for not answering anything and simply looking quite unprofessional and unprepared for the sharp, tough questions the moderators posed to all the candidates. I would guess those numbers slip after today (Hillary's).

People will see that and hear the opinions of the pundits and go "You know, I really DO want to know where she stands on issues. She won't give them. Maybe she doesn't HAVE a stand. I'll look and see what Obama and Edwards offer."

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Bunny, Winston-Salem, NC — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:37:02 GMT

"A normal person saw she still has something to hide and one has to wonder if it really is Bill Clinton pulling her strings."
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry---surely you jest! Hillary is struggling to be the reincarnation of her husband---we've heard these long, non-answers before. She just can't match his dash, his swagger, his lip-biting, look-you-straight-in-the-eye ability to lie through his teeth.
But, just in passing, many WOMEN want to see Hillary challenged forcefully. If equality ever meant anything, it means that. You want to be president? Answer the hard questions.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Sid, Washington DC — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:38:47 GMT

Admittedly, I did not watch the entire debate, but First Read's take (and many other pundits I might add) is way off.

Based on what I saw last night, there is no way Obama will be elected. First Read and many others are giving him a free pass. He did horrible, was clearly outmuched, and is too green for the spotlight. I was actually embarrassed for him when he was trying to cite his “experience” compared to everyone else on the stage. And judging from his tone and inflection I think he tacitly agreed.

In the same way, First Read and everyone else is way too critical of Hillary. She is clearly the best candidate in the field. The most “presidential” as the pundits like to say.

Edwards definitely separated himself as the only viable alternative to Hillary, but he also comes off as a phony. Edwards is the only Southern white-male in the race and clearly knows it.

Biden and Richardson appear to be vying for the 2nd slot or other cabinet posts within a Hillary administration. However, I still like them both.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Dante (Largo, Maryland) — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:41:55 GMT

Van, I think it will be interesting if we look at POST DEBATE numbers next week!!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

diane — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:42:22 GMT

i agree with Elizabeth. Hillary wants to be president and has received overly favored treatment by the press and has had a easy ride. If a person wants to be president, however, they have to prove they can handle the tough stuff like debate attacks. Or Tim Russert doing his usual and effective pressing for answers. Russert was doing what he does on MTP and was very good.
One other point. I remember last Feb. when Obama slung some witty put down at Howard of Australia and everyone thought it so effective. Now, he does the same thing, like last night, and the press complains because he did not kneecap Hillary and act out of character.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

MK, Maryland — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:43:00 GMT

It's clear that Obama won the debate, and Hillary is playing politics to gain support rather than being honest. She was exposed as a over rated candidate, and dancer. If her last name was Brown instead of Clinton, she wouldn't be in the race. Bill is her best basis for "experience". So Laura Bush ought to run for president based her her tremedous political experience. What is a junior senator anyway? Obama was very skillful in jabbing at her obvious flaws without being too aggresive. Edwards was good, but in my opinion just a little too harsh. I would love to see an Obama / Edwards or Edwards/Obama ticket. Obama in 08!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Rick, WS, NC — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:43:01 GMT

Yeah so I get that edwards and the unelectable obama wanted to cut the leader down to size I still don't get exactly what it is that they stand for other than their populist nonsense...they are going to round up all the rich people and make them pay for everything since they must have cheated to get righ...blah blah

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:43:14 GMT

Quick Analysis Summary (First Read Take Note)

Based on your unsolicited and totally incorrect statement about me, I didn't even bother to read the rest of your brilliant critique. You should probably read the thread BEFORE you wax eloquent and erroneous again...

Van
(at least TWO polls you MISSED)

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

TJB, Scottsdale — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:46:39 GMT

Molly from Nebraska...

"They" all crucified her?

No, she crucified herself, by showing her detractors that she's exactly as portrayed,i.e., unavailable, undecisive, untruthful and two faced. All of which,by the way, were traits that were the cornerstones of her husband's administrations. You mentioned that he was "hard" as nails...LOL....that might have been the case at times, especially when it cam to the office interns. Recalling his glowing moment of integrity, when he looked the nation in the eye and say, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"...why should we expect anything different from his loving wife and partner in politics?

Let's not forget, that some of the main reasons that George Bush was voted into office was the voting public's disgust with the Clinton's (both Bill and Hillary) continuous deceptiveness, scandals and sexual escapdes. She was, is, and will always a central figure in ALL of the seedy exploits during "their" term in office.

Also, now she presents herself as a person that can get things "done". I'm curious as to why no one has questioned her about her failed attempt at putting together a national healthcare program when she was "First Lady"? Why is she going to be able to do something now, that she couldn't do then......the simple answer is , she won't and can't. Because she can't bite off the Special Interest and Lobbyist's hands that fed her and filled her coffers with cash

Last night exposed a glaring weakness of your idol....she can't stand the heat of scrutiny and pressure to respond, where by her double backs and double talk start to unravel and visably undo her. If she's this uncomfortable with the guys on the same team taking few shots at her, she's in for a rough go... Currently, there are seven people of the stage at the moment, so she shares the spotlight too a greater degree, they aren't as ruthless or jugular cutting as the Opposition party....If she ever got to the general election (which seems doubtful after last night) where she has to answer much tougher questions (that she can't slough off saying "I'm not going to answer that") posed by a single opponent from the other side, she won't have a chance to hide, because the assault will be whithering....She can't go to her past brrrrrr that would be chilling, she has no resume (sans her last name), she knowingly covets the lobbyists (they're real people too...she says) and special interest groups and has more luggage than Samsonite..

I think the polls (before last night) those that reflected, that there are a full 50% of the voters that could'nt, or would NEVER vote for her will have had ther numbers increased....she's proving them correct.....she's unelectable.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

ADA SANCHEZ — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:53:09 GMT

BUSH SUCKS...HILLARY ROCKS !

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Matt, Columbia, SC — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:57:29 GMT

The beginning of the end for Hillary '08...she will gradually fall off and everyone will realize she's just another politician that only says what people want to hear...The other candidates are so much more sincere than her and informed...Obama was a very accomplished professor of Constitutional Law, I can't wait to have a president that actually believes in the Constitution

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Desperate, Overland Park Kansas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:00:10 GMT

With the deepest of sincerity and as a real liberal I must say that women who vote for Hillary simply because she is a woman are not good people and I don't wan them in my party. This whole idea that Edwards and Obama were picking on her is ridiculous. It's a debate. Yet, the Clinton campaign methodically plays the heart strings of women across the country. Hell it was the same thing she did in her Senate race. I'm glad it worked against a repub, but when she uses this against candidates of substance to pander to women, intelligent women everywhere should be insulted. When she says her snarky comments about I couldn't run this race any other way, women across America should vomit. She could run it as a human being, as an American, but no because then she couldn't win. She is using women with this who Spice Girl Girl Power crap. Last president we voted in on whether we'd like to have a beer with her, and even as a hardcore liberal I fear that we are going to elect someone not because of principles, but because they share the same chromosomes as us. WOMEN EVERYWHERE SHOULD FEEL ASHAMED AND USED. DON'T GIVE ME THE "YOU'RE SEXIST" CRAP EITHER. I'M TRYING TO MAKE A SERIOUS POINT. I'm not sexist I'm telling the truth.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Abraham, SF, CA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:05:57 GMT

Chuck and MSNBC, it is time to start ask the hard question to te intern Hillary. Last night was a prove that she lack any judgement to lead this great country. After, 7 years of W, we , american people did not another president tat lack judgement and is easily convince by Lieberman(PATHETIC) or Kyl. We need someone who will commit the arm to war when our security is at risk. Hillary and is staff need to learn about the history of colonization. Then they will understand that doesnot matter how brutal the Ahmadinadjad is, if we attack Iran all iranians will be beimd him. Most importantly, we will give Ben Laden(THE SICKO) a tools to recruit for new jihadists.
NO TO HILLARY.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:09:36 GMT

".....J. Merle - No, it's not interesting, since no other First Lady in history has run for President six years after she leaves the White House. The "both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue" line is adorable, but talk about irrelevant if no one is allowed to look at the record......"
squintz, philly, pa (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:38 AM)

squintz,.....
You're position is disengenuous and hypocritical. Bush didn't answer the cocaine question in 2000, and didnt release his military records until 2004.
No other candidate in this race is being asked for access to their personal possessions.
Why the double standard with regard to Hillary?
If this were a matter of transparency for all, then I might be inclined to go along with it.
But, this is really a contrived, made-up, rhetorical, non-issue that is designed to harrass, embarrass, and intimidate her for the purpose of political gain.
That isn't transparency or truth.
That is simply the same kind of politics we've gotten from Bush & Co. and from the G.O.P. for the last 8 years.
It's exactly the kind of thing we need to rid our political process of, instead of promoting it further.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Kathy — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:12:40 GMT

I hope that in the future the “lightning round format” will be dropped for a format that gives each candidate a chance to give us more details on three or four important subjects. And the candidates will be allowed to speak and rebut each other, WITH EQUAL TIME EXTENDED TO EVERYONE ON EACH SUBJECT,
I get so sick of the media paying attention to only the candidates that raise the most money. It is not a sign of public support; it is a sign of special interests’ support. I wonder if the press does this because they are lazy and stupid, and they expect the American public to be lazy and stupid as well, or if they have ulterior motives. Consider how they go out of their way to minimalize Dennis Kucinich, whose policies (single-payer health care, renewable energy policy, end of NAFTA & WTO, decriminalization of marijuana, reverse America’s current “warrior nation” policies) would fix some of America’s deepest flaws, but at the cost of some economic disruption, especially on Wall Street. That would be an issue to those heavily invested in insurance and oil, but the savings in government spending and the tremendous potential to add billions or trillions of dollars to our economy should make the rest of us sit up and take notice! America, please educate yourselves at all of the candidates websites and at votehemp.com and www.jackherer.com
Wishing4commonsense

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

J Baggett Moody, AL — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:19:54 GMT

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit. Hillary Clinton, Circa 2007

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Scott, MN — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:20:40 GMT

"I was positively suprised by Biden and his clear message. I don't think he has a chance in this election but I think he is probably the one with the most clear message.

Thomas Frischknecht "

Tom,

Don't be so sure. I was just listening to NPR, and several callers from Iowa said they either were supporting, or leaning towards Biden. Iowa has a history of voting for the adult/grown up in the race. polls in Iowa have usually been wrong, there's no reason to think this year is any different.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Helen Smith — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:21:03 GMT

The more the fellas attack Hillary, the more desparate and weak they seem. I want to hear from them how they will lead this country and solve the problems that are staring us in the face. That is what I heard from Hillary last night and what I did not hear from her them. The republicans are already attacking Hillary and it makes them look desparate. The Democrats have quality candidates and we are still doing our best to shoot ourselves in the foot.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Scott, MN — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:21:27 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Scott, MN — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:21:51 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

demo, miami, florida — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:21:56 GMT

why was obama not ask, why he was not there to voted when iran is so a importened issue for him. my guess nobody can ever say he voted for or against it

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:23:45 GMT

Men are SCARED of a women leading this country. And from the sounds of it a lot of WOMEN are scared of a women leading this country. Probably the same women who SHRED each other apart after chatting nicely with them to their face and probably the same type of women who voted AGAINST WOMENS RIGHT TO VOTE!!! If any of the men actually were questioned as aggressively as Hillary was I might actually think you made a point but since the point of a debate is to talk about ISSUES and not personally attack one another I would say that Hillary won.

I think I remember the republicans asking why so many democrats were watching and responding to the republican debates. I would ask the same thing about why so many republicans are chiming in here (hello Jerry.......TEXAS republiCANT...win the next damn election) but since you have NO GOOD ELECTIBLE candidates I completely understand.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Bill C. — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:25:52 GMT

LOOKIE HERE....hillaryclinton.com

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Jane, Southern Mississippi — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:25:57 GMT

It was hard to miss the Ron Paul signs, wasn't it, during the post-debate commentary? I do believe he's the only one who makes any sense at all, and who doesn't talk out of both sides of his mouth.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:30:45 GMT

Is this Texas idiot day? I didn't get the memo. I guess every day under Bush is Texas idiot day!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Jake, Great Falls, MT — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:33:37 GMT

J. Merle, in making your "personal papers" statement, you overlook the important distinction that other First Ladies were not running for president. Do you object to the fact that SCOTUS and cabinet nominees must explain their past correspondence during their congressional confirmation hearings as well?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Elizabeth Kiser Ohio — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:36:05 GMT

Hillary did an outstanding job last evening. Everyone is out to get her, but she can hold her own. She's very smart. I can't wait until she's president.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mtichell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:36:25 GMT

To all of you Hillarophiles:

Hillary performed poorly last night and it's going to get harder and harder for her to get away with her non-answer, answers. The wheels of the slick Mark Penn avoidance machine are falling off and the real nuts and bolts (more nuts than bolts) are now there for the viewing. Look, her feet were held to the fire last night and she got burned. And I'm not glad because I enjoyed watching her squirm (I actually felt sorry for her) but I'm glad because I care about the direction that our country will be taking for the next 4-8 years and I don't think that Hillary is capable of taking us in a new direction.

An unprincipled campaign, no matter how finely crafted, will always show itself for what it is, when the ability is had to closely inspect it. Last night was the first time that we had a chance to see that the emperor had no clothes.

When you read the comments on the post this AM it is obvious that even the Hillarophiles know that last night was a bust (lots of compensatory statements and irritation). The anti-Hillary people seem satisfied even a little smug (gotta watch that smugness). Even her post-debate spinners could only say that 'she held her own.'

I think that now, with the inevitability thing finally in its death throes, the MSM can start to do a more honest analysis of the quality of the candidates and pay more attention to their stances (wide or otherwise) on the issues. The race is wide open; let the games begin.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Dot, Illinois — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:42:56 GMT

*Elle McCulloch "Hill.....has more experience than all of them combined."

No, I don't thnk that is a true statement. I would guess that Senator Dodd ALONE hs more experience in government service, and Senator Biden ALONE has more experience, so there is no way that Senator Clinton can have more experience than all three combined even if you count her years as First Lady, which was not an elected office.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Nikki, Orlando, Florida — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:43:40 GMT

If you are looking for a great president, then vote for BARACK OBAMA!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Pacheck — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:44:57 GMT

John Edwards appeared the most presidential. Even in his shot HRC about her not being clear no the drivers license issue was appropreate. As we approach the election it is important for each candidate to not only show their point of view, but point out the defeciencies in their opponents platform.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Sandy — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:45:34 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

CitizenJ — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:46:09 GMT

75% of these comments were made by people who would have written the same thing no matter how the debate turned out. It never matters who does well or not, their minds can't be changed.

You have the Susans, who think that Clinton should be president because she is a woman, and hence is not subject to any questions that come from males.

Then you have the J. Merles, who think that everyone sucked, unless their last name was Clinton.

Then you have the multiple Obama supporters, who also think that he did well, no matter what he does on stage.

Then you have about 25% of people (maybe less) that actually acknowledge that their candidate did well, but made mistakes, and that others did the same. Watching the debate last night, I actually tried to predict who would be saying what this morning, and wow, is it predictable.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:46:24 GMT

Looking for truth:
I basically agree with your assessment except for a few modifications. I think that for Hillary this was her weakest performance yet. Her Iran - Lieberman/Kyl answer was double talk. How can a vote that authorizes force, be a vote for diplomacy? Deja vu 2002? Her SS answer was evasive because we all know that something has to be done sooner rather than later and that some hard decisions, other than balancing the budget will have to be made. Her archive answer was duplicitous and I find it insulting that she thinks that we will buy this Bush/Rove cover up. Sadly, her driver's license answer suggested organic brain disease. The question was 'do you support it?' not 'do you understand Elliot Spitzer's motivations?' You can't have it both ways. It was unclear and a typical Clintonian dodge. Initially she left the impression that she supported it and she should have left it alone. Not everyone is going to like it but it is a proposal not without merits and is very defensible.

Edwards was the best that I've ever seen him. He really got the ball rolling in exposing the Hillary hypocrisy factor but he faded toward the end. If he wasn't so slick, if he didn't pander, I might be more inclined toward him.

Obama (my choice) was weak in the beginning and strengthened toward the finish. In fact, by the end he gave the strongest performance that I have yet to see him give in the debate forum. This forum encourages hostile exchanges and I know that he feels bound by his 'politics of hope' message to keep it down. However, I think that his demonstration of Hillary's Bush-lite positions is an obligation and doesn't counter his basic thesis. Her policies and double talk are exactly what the 'politics of hope' is supposed to counter, but he's going to have to be the one to get it going. I wish that Axelrod would stop advising him to hold back, the stategy wants for demonstration of leadership.

Richardson is running for VP or just wants Bill's fundraising help to win Domenici's seat. His defense of Hillary was laughable.

Biden, although the pithiest, can't get away from his 'I know more than everyone attitude'. Personally, I think his federalization idea for Iraq is irrelevent since the Iraqi's will never accept it and it will unleash Kurdish (PKK) rebels. In the
post-debate interview he wouldn't say that Hillary was wrong to vote for authorization of force in Iraq in 2002 because then he would have to admit his own mistake.

Dodd had his best night but he is an old pol and sometimes gets caught up in his own double-talk.

Dennis, man what can you say about Dennis. He is passionate and sincere (although, I, for one, am against his plan for socialized medicine). I find myself loving his idealism, what he wants for this country (he is a true patriot, as is Ron Paul). But then he'll come out and say something wacko like 'impeach Bush/Cheney', a move which might have some legal merit and may even be an obligation of the Congress, after the treasonous deceit in which the two have participated, over the years. But practically speaking, is late in coming and would do more harm than good to the country. All of this passion should be directed instead, at ending this illegal and disasterous war. And ending the debate on the UFO thing? Personally, I would have refused to answer the question as it was irrelevent (as, in the end, will be his candidacy).

All in all it was the best and most in-your-face of the debates, although I did believe it was slanted against Hillary. But I have two feelings about that.
As others have said, if she can't take this heat now, then how does she expect to face the Republicans in November 2008. This race for the presidency isn't going to be like a senate race in one of the most Democratic states in the country against a weak and under financed Republican candidate. Secondly, (I have to admit) I was glad that the public got see the Clinton propaganda machine for what it is, an attempt to slickly slide by with a bunch of platitudes and smiles. Mark Penn, you can't do the Dick Morris thing. You can't win the Democratic nomination while maintaining the posture of a Republican.
Obama '08

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Kristian O — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:46:58 GMT

If reiterating the obvious, that being that Hillary Clinton is reknown for being evasive and more in tune with the Republican agenda, is a problem then so be it. I liked last night's DEBATE. Not a tea party, but a DEBATE. All you Hillary supporters need to stop whining and accepte the fact that she was lame last night. VERY LAME. Attack? Please. If the kitchen's too hot, then get out.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

woman who doesnt want hillary as president — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:48:23 GMT

Leslie Kloss
Are you seriously that deluded? Hillary Clinton wants to play in the big game she is going to have to deal with it....
If she wasnt such a liar and actually gave a straight answer to an important question, then they wouldnt have anything to "pick on her with"... when it is all men in the playing field they are just as vicious to them,, she shouldnt get a pass because she is a "girl".

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

psychic mary, DC — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:49:58 GMT

Hillary won hands down because she had to put up with attacks from all sides, and did it well. She is the frontrunner for good reason. She will stay the frontrunner and become our next president.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Students at UNF — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:51:27 GMT

Go Hill, way to put up with all the crap from the boys. We will be campaigning for you until you become our next president of this great country!!!!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Dover,NH — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:51:56 GMT

I'm glad we're getting the real issues out in this debate...contrast is good! http://www.enewsreference.com

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Tiffany, Illinois — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:53:00 GMT

I'm glad someone asking the questions in a debate was finally trying to get Clinton to give a clear answer. She consistently beats around the bush and she did it again last night. It's about time someone readdressed the question and tried to get a straight answer out of her for once, after she clearly evades the questions. I would hope they would do the same to any other candidate not giving a straight answer, fortunately they all did. Apparently to some this means they were "attacking" Clinton. I see it as providing the American people with the answers they need to make an informed decision. The clear winners were Obama and Biden.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Tania, Santa Cruz CA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:53:03 GMT

Look, Hillary did OUTSTANDING! and yes, she is still Standing after the ARROGANT EDWARDS and WEAK OBAMA failed to make her FALL. Biden, I love that man..If Hillary was not in this race HE would have my vote! HILLARY will be the next PRESIDENT of the U.S. there is no doubt about that. Those who want to talk trash about her and Mr. Clinton..It's ok, your entitled to your opinions, However, It doesnt't change the FACT that Hillary will WIN!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:56:40 GMT

Van:

Thank you for the information about Hillary Clinton and Social security.....

However you slipped up bad son.......

Why didn't you post the entire question?

This was the beginning........

Russert: Senator Clinton, I want to clear something up which goes to the issue of credibility. You were asked at the AARP debate whether or not you would consider taxing, lifting the cap from $97,500, taxing that, raising more money for Social Security. You said, quote, "It's a no." I asked you the same question in New Hampshire, and you said "no."

Then you went to Iowa and you went up to Tod Bowman, a teacher, and had a conversation with him saying, "I would consider lifting the cap perhaps above $200,000." You were overheard by an Associated Press reporter saying that.

Why do you have one public position and one private position?

Hillary Clinton proved she has no credibility on this issue of Social Security........

Which goes to prove she has no opinion on social security....

You should have printed the first part of this Van....
your credibility just came into question.......

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Felix littleton CO — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:57:46 GMT

Like I always say, Hillary is as hawkish on the Middle East as any neocon and as fond of secrecy as Dick Cheney. Thanks a lot, media types all, for giving her all the attention and sucking the oxygen out of this race.

I do detect some media boredom now with the Hillary is inevitable story line as well as with the story line that says it's just Hillary and Obama. That too is getting boring for you with Obama nowhere near Hillary in your media driven polls. Doesn't leave you folks with anything very interesting to say. Am hoping that means you'll be showing us more of Edwards, Dodd and Biden.

And if Dodd and Biden are running for VP, you'd think they'd have been much nicer to Clinton if THEY believed her to be inevitable.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Adam Columbus OH — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:58:31 GMT

"Bush didn't answer the cocaine question in 2000, and didnt release his military records until 2004."

So your standard for openness and accountability in government is...George Bush? Talk about defining deviency down.

"No other candidate in this race is being asked for access to their personal possessions.
Why the double standard with regard to Hillary?"

So the arguement is, Hillary is the most experienced candidate, the most ready to lead, including her time as First Lady. But any and all documentation from that time period is personal and private? It counts or it doesn't, and the American people need to be allowed to make a judgement based on the record, not her (and your) breezy assertions that we should just trust her that this is the case. Her actions as First Lady were either a) as an important though non-official member of her husband's administration or b) not relevent to the experience question, in which case the sum total of her experience is as Senator from NY, now just shy of 7 years. Sen. Clinton was intimately involved in her husband's administration, and any and all records from that time cannot reasonably be called private.

If her record as First Lady is indicative of her leadership/experience credentials, ***put up or shut up,*** put the cards on the table and let the voters decide.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Dave Diamond, Mont Vernon, NH — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:58:55 GMT

Good thing this isn't about money, then. And good thing we have a candidate in Joe Biden who isn't afraid to say what needs to be said. People are finally starting to pay attention and his message is scoring bigtime.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Tuck,Realityville, KS — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:01:48 GMT

glad to see that obama didn't get "tricked" into missing the debate last night.. His handlers must have been in charge, since he made it.

edwards was great, Clinton held her own... obama didn't look presidential, he looked small and well,feminine.
eek

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:08:23 GMT

Here we go again, letting the republicans pick the topic of debate so we don't look to closely at their failures. Do ANY of you people know how easy it is to get a drivers license in ANY STATE as an illegal immigrant. Most illegals can get a 9 digit TIN number assigned to them (by the government through their employer) which they then use like a social security number. They set up an established residence (so they have water, electric, & tax bills with their address and names to use as ID) and use their Mexican identification (Matricula cards) to open up bank accounts (for further proof of id). Do you really think that giving an illegal immigrant a drivers license is the big problem here? A lot of the major accidents reported in the Chicago area are caused by illegal immigrants who don't know the rules of the road, have never taken a drivers test, don't have insurance, don't have drivers licenses, don't have properly registered vehicles and aren't (can't by current law) being held accountable. When they cause a 20 car pile-up on the interstate they are apprehended and deported (only to return in the next van or truck returing to the us). This is a safety issue as well as a principle issue and something needs to be done ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN GENERAL. Let's fix the immigration problem instead of dissecting it. First you have to finish building the damn fence along the Mexican border (only 100 miles of fence have been built in the last 2 YEARS since it was approved because it is not a priority many republican business owners who LOVE cheap labor and not having to provide benefits), use our national guard (I know it's a novel idea to this administration to actually keep our National Guard troops in the US, which is why they were created) to protect OUR NATION and OUR BORDERS as additional enforcement of our current laws and begin deporting illegal immigrants (knowing that with the other things in place they won't be returning)..........PERIOD!!!! Without the border protection, rounding up every single illegal immigrant in the country and deporting them isn't going to help because as they work here in the U.S. they SAVE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS in savings accounts ( I worked at a bank) in the event they get deported so they can afford to have someone bring them back (NO THEIR ACCOUNTS AREN'T CLOSED & THE MONEY REMAINS IN THEIR ACCOUNTS FOR THEM TO USE) or to bring more family members here.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

rjones2818, Central Indiana — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:09:45 GMT

Clearly, Dennis won the debate, as he set himself apart from all of the other go along to get along candidates. Also, the point everybody's missing on the UFO question is that he told the truth, while the others would have equivocated or outright lied.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Patrick Kiger, Takoma Park MD — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:10:22 GMT

I think that Hillary did a pretty good job of hanging tough in the face of all those attacks. Contrary to her opponents' attacks and all the post-debate journalistic spin, she did in fact take a position on the drivers licenses for illegal immigrants issue--she said that it wasn't the solution she would have chosen, but that she understood the dilemma that Gov. Spitzer faced, since those immigrants are still going to drive whether the government licenses them or not. She added that the underlying problem is the Bush Administration's failure to promote comprehensive immigration reform as promised. Journalists might see that answer as a stumble, but my guess is that it resonated pretty positively among hispanic Americans, who are eager to hear more thoughtfulness and less demagoguing on the immigration issue.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Dot, illinois — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:10:28 GMT

I read on one of the other sites that Senator Clinton was asked 21 questions, Senator Obama 17, Senator Edwards 14, Senator Dodd 9, Rep Kucinich 8, Senator Bide 7, and Gov. Richardson 6. Something about those numbers seems unfair. Several candidates were given many more opportunities to present their positions than were others. I could understand if the front runners received one or two more questions, but this wide a disparity (21 as opposed to 6) gives an unfair advantage to certain candidates and points out, yet again, that the playing field is not even.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

chicago, il — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:11:30 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Bee — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:14:21 GMT

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY,

I like your analysis. I thought Obama had a slow start and i was getting frustrated but he deliver it when it count. His approach is more subtle and effective to non-political junkies. Here is the example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8ocKiHEzvM

I like the fact that Edward was right on the money all through the debate. Clinton need to be hold accountable for all her plattitude and fluffs. I don't know where she stands on the critical issues.

Biden was Brilliant as ususal and Richardson is the biggest looser.

Chris Dodd was brilliant when he called Hillary out on her double talk.

Ladies and Gentlemen fasten your sit belt and get ready to rumble. The race is going to get interesting as we go along. No more coronation, perhaps, media will do their job by taking Tim Russet lead. American people deserve the best

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus cristi texes — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:16:23 GMT

You know, reading all these responses, I'm going to have to reconsider my myriad indefensible positions. I will now vote Democrat after all.

Republicans are lying, deceitful, greedy fearmongers, and I'm not going to take it any more.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

K., Austin — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:24:23 GMT

Glad to see so many of you feel the queen should not be questioned. You sound just like those who think anyone who questions Bush is un-patriotic....but with a little more whine.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Freeman Female Dallas, TX — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:26:55 GMT

VAN(howard),
ANY SIMPLETON CAN QUOTE A POLL BEFORE THE DEBATE.....
let's do a real comparison after the debate POLL NUMBERS.

(P.S.) I just don't take your poll numbers at face value. Remember President Dean

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Freeman Female, Dallas, TX — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:31:46 GMT

VAn, confirm this http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1113

was taken on the dates of ....wait for it before the debate SO VAN(Howard) is using OLD data to try to make a new point......

From October 23 - 29, Quinnipiac University surveyed 1,636 American voters with a margin of error of +/- 2.4 percent, including 678 Republicans with a margin of error of +/- 3.8 percent, and 742 Democrats with a margin of error of +/- 3.6 percent.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Rick Gonzales — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:35:28 GMT

It seems these days that everybody is running for office and not serving. I think early cam"pain"ing is not a good thing and should be outlawed because it hurts our system more than helps. Ongoing decisions that need to be made are politicized immediately and it takes away from valid discussion and thought since those in office and those seeking are influenced by how it will be scrutinized. My suggestion is that the parties make the change to later campaign starts or that law makers do it with legislation.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Arshad, Newburgh, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:36:35 GMT

Tim Russert and Brian Williams did what smart, genuine journalists should do. Instead of constantly kissing back of percieved front runner and trying to manipulate voters by 24/7 Hillary songs, they asked some tough questions to bring the real candidates out in front of people so that people can decide on their own.

Why do you, Clinton supporters, cry foul. No one attacked her. She invited attacks toward her. She was asked questions like every one else. It's her who is in charge to decide how she answer them. She has been choosing to give no answer to any questions and use her time by speaking from a forked tongue and meaningless sound bites (have been standing for this and that. who cares if u r standing or sitting or sleeping. what did you accomplish by standing up or down). When she is doing that, ofcourse she is inviting follow up questions from Tim or Brian. And she is exposing herself to criticism from competition that this lady want to be the president of the country but does not think people have a right to know about issues that are important to them or right to validate the claim she is making regarding experience. When she is hiding her Senate earmarks, her tax returns, her document from white house days, it's obvious that she is hiding something. If there is nothing to be concerned of, then there is no reason to hide them.

If she was open, honest, sincere, truthful, and respected in people's right to know about the president they are going to elect, she could have prevented this embarrassment. So all responsibility belong to her.

Edwards was very aggressive but passionate. Obama also did well by drawing contrast in a civil way. Last night might very well be the beginning of end of Hillary's campaign. I agree that it's time for woman to become president but Hillary is NOT the right woman for the cause.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Leslie, Georgia — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:36:51 GMT

Is it just me, or does anyone else notice that at least one of the front runners (and usually it is all three) agrees with Joe Biden on every issue? "I agree with Joe." "Joe's right." "Joe and I agree." You hear this on every issue. Iowans, New Hampshirites and South Carolinians are listening and paying attention. Apparantly their voters are the ones who are going to decide who wins the nomination.

If you look at the msnbc rankings after the debate, Joe Biden's combined numbers for Positive and Neutral are higher than anyone else's. Hillary's aren't close. I agree with whoever said that the electability issue is the one to hit her on and not her legislative choices. It may not be fair that her unelectability is not really of her own making, but that's just the reality.

Obama is such an international and national light weight at this point. He cannot and will not be elected. The sooner the media stops giving him attention that he doesn't really deserve, except for the historical nature of his candidacy, and the sooner everyone wakes up and smells the coffee, the sooner they can decide who they are really going to vote for.

Biden '08.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

bee — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:38:39 GMT

Funny both dem and repub political analysts say today that Hillary won the debate. Huh...geez, I thought so too.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mark Thieme — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:43:01 GMT

None of the candidates gave a "presidential" performance last night. Although that term means significantly less than it did 7 years ago.

Now what?

Mitchell, you are the most articulate and fair of posters, but I must disagree with you on the inevitability point.

Debates mean little (cf. George W Bush, ad nauseum)).

That polls are inherently subjective and generally misleading should be evident to all but the moronic (ad multum nausea).

The choice of the oligarchy, who own the very ground upon which every polling place sits, is still the Clintons. And I do mean plural.

Game over.

It could be worse.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Kato in Des Moines — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:43:30 GMT

For what it's worth here's my assessment of last night's debate:

1. Senators Biden and Dodd were the strongest among the seven candidates on issues relating to foreign policy -- particularly Iraq and Iran.

2. Senator Clinton handled the question about illegal immigrants getting drivers licenses rather poorly. She was under attack all night long for being two-faced or unclear and ambiguous in her answers and this question sealed her repuation as saying one thing to win the nomination and another to win the general election. All in all, it was not a good night for the Senator from New York; she was constantly having to defend herself. In large part this was because many of the moderators' questions were slanted against her, but it also was the result of her own hesitancy to provide direct answers to the questions.

3. I thought the debate moderators (in particular Tim Russert) and the post-debate commentary and questions (from Chris Matthews) somewhat troubling. There were too many anti-Hillary questions. She was constantly having to defend herself. It seemed the questions were engineered with the intent to promote lively debate at her expense. In that respect I don't think the moderators were fair or impartial; they appeared to have an agenda -- stop the Clinton coronation. Look, I'm no Clinton fan, but I don't think it proper for the moderators to have an agenda here. Most of Matthews' post debate questions to the candidates focused on Clinton's debate performance. Why would Biden, Dood or the others want to waste their tv time talking about Senator Clinton? The good news though, is that the moderators through their slanted/biased questions exposed Senator Clinton's knack for being evasive and less than forthright with the American people. This could get some traction with the base and derail or dealy the coronation.

4. Finally, I think it's time for Congressman Kucinich to exit the stage.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Jules, Hartford — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:44:43 GMT

I can see all the clinton haters chomping at the bit that the little lady misspoke(didnt have enough time to answer) once out of 17 times. All the drooling right wingers are coming out of the woodwork. And Tucker Carlson had his first erection in his life too!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

GP — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:45:57 GMT

Please, please show me where Biden has proven to be a gaffe machine. He isn't a bigger factor in this race because the media labeled the frontrunners based on polls representing little more than name recognition. The most experienced candidate in the field, in either party, gets no time to prove himself to the American public and you have the audacity to call him a gaffe machine after a another solid debate. Poor journalism.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

psychic mary!! — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:51:33 GMT

I keep checking my crystals and Hillary Clinton will definitely be our president. I can see a woman in the oval office. I prefer Edwards but it is not him I see.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Elizabeth Sullivan, San Diego, CA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:52:24 GMT

A (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:23 PM):

I would be offended by your comment if I were not secure in the fact that I am any man's equal; if not in physical strength or ability to remember baseball stats, then in the ability to make reasoned, well-informed choices based on my own beliefs.

" And from the sounds of it a lot of WOMEN are scared of a women leading this country. Probably the same women who SHRED each other apart after chatting nicely with them to their face and probably the same type of women who voted AGAINST WOMENS RIGHT TO VOTE!!!"

To call into question the motives of women who don't support Hillary, to say that we are afraid of being led by a woman, indicates to me you are not as secure in your own equality or your own point of view.

Too bad you choose to defend Hillary - the ultimate female-hater. She sure had no problem attacking Paula Jones, Monica Lewinsky, and Gennifer Flowers as NUTS & SLUTS (especially because, as it turned out, they were telling the truth). For years, instead of holding her husband responsible for his indiscretions she denegrated, debased and humiliated the women he cheated on her with. So very pro-female of Hillary.

Lastly, women who would have voted no on sufferage probably would not be posting comments regarding a political debate.

I understand - you are scared beca

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Ricardo in California — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:02:22 GMT

I love it ..Hillary has all of the neocons up in arms. Face it guys, Hillary has more balls than all of the male candidates (GOP and DEMS) put together. I would like to quote Carl Cameron from Fox News who hates Hillary and what he had to say about the debate last night.. "Truth is if you match them up, no one candidate did better than Hillary. No one candidate beat her. It was the group that on a few occasions got the best of her. But she is still standing" That coming from FOX News ..the anti-clinton channel speaks volumes to all of you right wing nut jobs who claim she was whipped ... I DONT THINK SO!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:03:52 GMT

CitizenJ (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:46 PM)

Well said.

Freeman Female, Dallas, TX

Whoever you are- The MSNBC POLL IS post debate, albeit unscientific.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21528788/

Who stood out from the pack? * 68113 responses
Clinton 27 Obama 25

Who showed the most leadership qualities? * 67491 responses Clinton 30 Obama 27

Who was the most convincing candidate? * 67118 responses Clinton 27 Obama 27

Not EXACTLY what you were hoping for.

The wild eyed anger of the Clinton haters always mystifies and saddens me. Hope you are a republican. Hope you're here to see the polls next week. You KNOW I will be here.

Van

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Arshad, Newburgh, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:12:24 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

PollM, Dallas TX — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:15:45 GMT

Democratic Debate in Philadelphia - Who was least honest

"I think that our responsibility as presidential candidates is to be in 'tell the truth' mode all the time," Edwards said.

Which candidate do you believe was the least honest & least forthcoming during the Debate?
---> http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=846

.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mark Thieme — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:16:17 GMT

I might add, there is always a fallback candidate for the politico-corporate oligarchy.

It is always conceivable that something quite unexpected could happen (fill in the blank).

In this case, that fallback candidate is not Obama or Edwards, but Guiliani.

Far down the list, but the only other person running with any degree of trust of the international Capitol Investors.

This is not likely to happen, of course, but Hillary's opponents were not on stage last night. Besides, it is not who is against Hillary at this point, it is rather who supports her with great silent affirmation.

It could be worse.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Kristian O — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:20:24 GMT

Am I sensing a sexist slant here with all of the females defending Hillary simply because she's one of ya'll? Enlighten Me Please.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Lee Holmes — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:22:21 GMT

Merle:Thats because none of them has a spouse who was the last POTUS.Including Bush.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:22:31 GMT

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Burl, KY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:38:57 GMT

Chris Dodd deserves more attention than he is getting IMO.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Richard, Washington State — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:40:34 GMT

J. Merle Stanley says:

"All in all, last night was the kind of primary debate that makes someone like jerry in corpus christie happy. Democrats, tearing up other Democrats and lots of in-party bickering. "

Well knock me over with a feather! I CANT agree more with J. Merle here. And if Jerry is happy, so am I.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:49:48 GMT

Van:

Will that be a public poll or a private poll?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

squintz, philly, pa — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:51:38 GMT

squintz,.....
You're position is disengenuous and hypocritical. Bush didn't answer the cocaine question in 2000, and didnt release his military records until 2004.
No other candidate in this race is being asked for access to their personal possessions.
Why the double standard with regard to Hillary?
If this were a matter of transparency for all, then I might be inclined to go along with it.
But, this is really a contrived, made-up, rhetorical, non-issue that is designed to harrass, embarrass, and intimidate her for the purpose of political gain.
That isn't transparency or truth.
That is simply the same kind of politics we've gotten from Bush & Co. and from the G.O.P. for the last 8 years...

J. Merle - for spending all day, everyday on this blog, one would assume your reasoning skills would be a little sharper. I'm not sure how Bush's cocaine use has anything to do with it - in that he was arrested for it, it was a matter of public record. Senator Clinton is not running against George Bush, anyway. Funny how you, just as she did last night, immediately turn to discuss ol' Bushie instead of responding to the issue at hand. I'm not sure what your getting at or how you got there, but hey, that's what blogs are for.

The other Democratic candidates are running on their records of public service, as is Senator Clinton. As elected officials, the public has access to a great deal of information about the decisions they have made and the positions they have taken. Since Senator Clinton's resume includes only a few years of elected public office, it would stand to reason that the bulk of her touted experience would be from her time serving as First Lady and her involvement in her husband's administration. If it was substantial, as I imagine it was, great. But I need to see some facts and some evidence. Perhaps in your vast wisdom you already know all you need to about her as a candidate, but some of us prefer to inform ourselves. It is absolutely a matter of transparency for all and I feel that the other Democratic candidates have been far more forth-coming regarding their experience. It remains to be seen if the Republican field will be denying their illicit drug use in the future, but I'll let you be the look out on that one, J. Merle.

In addition, this has nothing to do with her "private" or "constitutional" rights. No one is demanding that candidates disclose, say, love letters or crap they wrote in people's yearbooks. If these documents are part of the National Archive, then we should be able to see them. If not, then she can't expect people not to question the validity of running on experience in an unelected, unpaid, unofficial White House position. AND if it is true that there are documents that remain to be seen coming from her time as a PAID employee of the administration while working on health care reform, there better be some disclosure and soon. The government works for the people, not the other way around.

Of course, I'm not expecting a lucid response to this post from you, but for the benefit of my blogging friends who are interested in substanative converstation, I thought I'd contribute. J. Merle, I anxiously await your next series of random associations and tired buzzwords!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Freeman Female, Dallas, TX — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:51:47 GMT

Van, Van, how do we tell TALL Tales in class today.
TELL THE WHOLE STORY
I am NOT SURPISED by YOU especially when in this Same Poll, Senator Clinton is winning 2 to 1 over 6 candidates with the most rehearsed answers and she is almost at a 2 to 1 in a lead over AVOIDING answering questions.

Ms. Freeman is very disappointed in you today.

Who had the most rehearsed answers? * 70698 responses
Joe Biden 2.7%
Hillary Clinton 57% That is over half.
Chris Dodd 2.6%
John Edwards 12%
Dennis Kucinich 3.3%
Barack Obama 17%
Bill Richardson 4.6%

Who avoided the questions? * 69906 responses
Joe Biden 2.9%
Hillary Clinton 64% That is 2/3 of the people
Chris Dodd 2.9%
John Edwards 8%
Dennis Kucinich 3.2%
Barack Obama 15%
Bill Richardson 3.5%

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

CitizenJ — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:53:27 GMT

"Would love to participate in this discussion but since every single post I have made today, starting at 8:00 am, has failed to show up, it's really not worth the effort to put any thought into anything."

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:22 PM)

This happened to me yesterday, Carrie. Although, I am a little surprised that it happened in the morning. It ususally seems as though they simply forget to come back from lunch.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

doc/lewisville tx — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:00:47 GMT

I have been deleted!Amazing.I wrote two comments this A.M.about the debate,one of which was posted.Surprise!When I came back on line,no Doc!And you people don't believe "fair and balanced!".If you ain't bashin' Hillary,you won't get posted.And never malign either of their Poster Boys.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:03:51 GMT

I haven't heard from Mark Penn today......

matter of factly, I haven't heard anything from the Hillary campaign today........

Must have been one heck of a boozer after that debate last night......

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:04:51 GMT

Elizabeth,

If you actually took a stand against Hillary on an issue, any issue, that would tell me that you are informed and educated but the fact that you are blasting her because she's human doesn't earn my respect and makes me question your motives. I don't expect anyone to support Hillary because she's a women but if you just bash her based on attacks from one debate it clear you aren't really interested in the issues. I will support Hillary in the next election but I would also support whoever the democratic candidate ends up being because I believe they would all do a better job than any of the republicans running and because I believe in what the I believe in the changes the democrats want to make for our country: affordable healthcare, job security and peace. I could give a good damn about her personally. I don't have to want to be her friend to think she would be a good leader. And using her support of her husband as your argument against her doesn't tell me why she would be a bad president? And frankly, her, your or anyone's personal issues aren't any of my business (nor are they yours). If people would rather read STAR magazine and catch up on gossip rather than learn about what changes the candidates might make as president then nothing any candidate says should really matter to you.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Sierra, SF — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:04:53 GMT

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY:

'...Hey Sierra...
** What is Obama's position on negotiating with terrorists?...'
The campaign question was about negotiating with:
Iran, Syria, Cuba & Venezuela...
He said he'd NEGOTIATE with them !!
Hillary said she wouldn't.... then she flip, flopped
Why are you changing the subject to terrorists ?

** Why won't he wear an American Flag on his lapel?...'

BOY !!
You're scraping the bottom of the barrel, CRY BABY !!
You just admitted Hillary lost the debate with that question

** Why doesn't he hold his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is playing?

You really are RATTLED, Merle
(you seem a little Haggard)

** When will he come clean about his relationship with underworld figure Antoin Rezko?

I don;t know, maybe when Hillary comes clean about Whitewater, HJillRaiser Norman Hsu and Peter Paul
Again, you're showing your desperation....
Why not talk about ISSUES ?
How does Hillary feel about ID's for illegal aliens, Merle ?
Do you know where she stands ?
She gave two different answers in two minutes !!
John Edwards called her on it
TOO BAD FOR FORKED TONGUE HILLARY !!

'...Hillary did fine last night, and she's going to be the nominee whether you like it or not...'

No, she didn;t and no she's not !!
She didn't give a straight answer to ANY QUESTION LAST NIGHT !

'...Obama is just another biggoted religious nut with an agenda that he wants to ram down everyone's throat. No thanks....been there, done that..,.'

You're reaching, J. Merle !!
A religious nut ?
The debate REALLY got to you !!

CRY BABY !!
Forked tongue Hillary can't take the heat....
Neither can her supporters....

CRY BABY !!

Hillary Clinton, the Forked Tongue Express
Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandal and divisiveness

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

H P Boston — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:09:17 GMT

Murray..Post Carrie NOW! She is the only sane person on this blog. Smart, articulate and a breath of fresh air.
I was wondering where she was today.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:12:41 GMT

Wow look at that...suddenly TWO things I wrote showed up. Go figure.

The issue I have with this debate is that it was not meant to be a discussion of the issues; rather, it was meant to be a discussion of the problems that Hillary Clinton poses as a candidate. If people naturally fall into contrasting themselves with other candidates, that's one thing, but Russert and Williams set it up that way from the very first question.

I don't think it is a matter of the boys picking on the girl. I don't think gender has anything to do with it. I tuned into the debate to see the candidates discuss the issues; instead, what I got was more of the same he said/she said crap that we see reported all of the time. Clinton memo says this, Obama responds with this, Edwards jumps in with this, Biden says this, blah blah blah.

By all means, ask the tough questions. But ask the tough questions that are relevant. "How is Hillary Clinton like Republicans" is not relevant - not unless you are going to ask the same about all of the other candidates.

And for those who claim that Hillary crashed and burned...well, that's a matter of opinion. Yes, she was irritated but I don't blame her for that (see above). But she didn't lose control. In fact, she seemed more composed than many of the other candidates did while they were attacking her.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:13:19 GMT

".....** What is Obama's position on negotiating with terrorists?
Speaking of Guliani lite:

** Why won't he wear an American Flag on his lapel? ** Why doesn't he hold his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is playing?
** When will he come clean about his relationship with underworld figure Antoin Rezko?
...and who's this gay guy he has making appearances for him,...saying that god cured him of being gay?

Is there a question above that is not indicitave of the irrelaventpetty wedge issues that Republicans are so artful at deploying?
Adam Columbus OH (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 11:29 AM)....."

Adam,
Remember that old saying, "if you LIVE by the sword, you will DIE by the sword"..?
Obama and his supporters employed Neo-Con tactics when they began attacking Hillary over such things as personal papers, and the fact that her husband was President 6 years ago.
Why is it okay for Obama (and republiCANTs like Rudy Giuliani) to attack Hillary, but not okay for Hillary and her supporters to fire back?
If you live by the sword, you will also die by the sword.
Likewise if you run your campaign with smear tactics like Obama and his supporters are presently doing, smear tactics will be used right back at ya'!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

H P Boston — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:14:15 GMT

Would love to participate in this discussion but since every single post I have made today, starting at 8:00 am, has failed to show up, it's really not worth the effort to put any thought into anything.

Enjoy the bloodbath.
Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:22 PM)
---------------------------------------------
I cannot enjoy the bloodbath without you Carrie. Besides you are so much smarter than the trolls on here, we need you! THIS blog needs you.

Murray...POST CARRIE!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:29:45 GMT

I HATE that many women are such WOMEN-HATERS!!! We are each other's harshest critics. We overlook a mans personal flaws to see his leadership potential but when it comes to women, she's criticized for being too tough, too soft, not wearing the right clothes, bad hair, supporting her husband, anything you can think of. It's like you are just waiting for it........AHA.......she isn't perfect....see, I've been saying that all along!!! I guess that is how you know she is really good that so many women have chosen to critique her so viciously for personal reasons.........just like THAT WOMEN at the beach we all hate because she's so perfect and all the men are staring at her..........we can't wait to find a real reason to hate her but we're happy to shred her because all eyes are on her!!! Democrats will win the election, and this I am THANKFUL for, but I would love to see what a female president would do for this country and I think that Hillary is strong enough and smart enough to get elected. Don't support her because she is a women but don't hate her because she is a women. Women have been leaders all over the world but for some reason people choose to look at her every personal flaw verses what she has accomplished of her own merits. Hillary is tough, thoughtful and smart enough not to give a black or white answer to a question that requires a grey answer.

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Dot, Illinois — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:34:18 GMT

I have just finished watching the debate on my computer, and I don't think they were that agressive in their attitude to Senator Clinton, nor do I think that she performed that badly. Tim Russert may have been a bit pushy, but Brian Williams was fine. I guess I am in the minority, but I expected some heavier questions than they were asked!

I have to repeat, the going will get much tougher for whoever win the Democratic nomination because the Republicans will use a much more negative approach.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Dot, Illinois — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:47:20 GMT

Pyshic Mary.....I see a woman in the Oval Office

I have to ask, What is that woman doing?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Bee — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:48:09 GMT

Tim Russert is an absolute embarrasment to NBC and to journalism as a whole. How in the world is he allowed to editorialize to one candidate, as he did when he introduced his question to Sen. Clinton by saying: "it speaks to your credibility..." while not making the same comments in his question to other candidates, esp. to Sen. Obama on the same topic. He-- Russert-- should simply not be allowed to conduct himself in that manner.
chicago, il
------------------------------------------------------

Stop whinnie please. Tim Russert is the most respected Journalist in washington DC. The only guy that command such attention is Bob Woodward. Tim is known for doing his homework before asking any question. I'll sugest you watch meet the press on sunday, i think that will give you a good idea of who he is.

I want him in all democratic debate. He seems to be the only moderator that can get us the answer that we need.Enough of Clinton's fluffs and lies. We need credibility in this election.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:52:34 GMT

Mark: Ye of little faith. The oligarchy can be beaten. Certainly, you don't think that FDR or JFK were the choice over their respective opponents (Hoover of Nixon). Certainly the oligarchy would have preferred Dewey to Truman in '48. I hardly think they could have hoped for the resultant mess in 2000 (if they had the power, they would have made Bush's victory more decisive and would have avoided a Constitutional crisis). I doubt Sandra Day O'Connor, who literally gave the White House to Bush in 2000 was influenced by the oligarchy (nah, she's just a country club repub who used to play tennis with Barbara Bush).

I'm not saying that the Murdochs and the Redstones and the Tillersons wouldn't like to have control over the elections, its just that they can be beaten. A candidate with the 'politics of hope' could make the difference by inspiring people to vote(Kennedy was elected when a record 62.8% of the voting age population turned out - Bush was elected in 2004 when 55.5% turned out as a result of the politics of fear - man those gay people sure are scary, they should make a gay person costume for Halloween).

And if we lose, then we just have to keep trying. I don't mind being disappointed; it's so much better than just giving up from the beginning and taking your lumps.

By the way you remind me of the guy in Slaughterhouse Five, who, as a prisoner of war, kept saying that things had been worse for him in the past(he had been a hobo - and I think a wino - not that you're a wino - during the Depression). And, then, the next day Billy Pilgram found that the guy had died in his sleep. I guess the moral is that things can always be worse and if you're goin' to die, you might as well go out fighting.
Obama '08

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Bee — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:54:16 GMT

Funny both dem and repub political analysts say today that Hillary won the debate. Huh...geez, I thought so too.
bee (
-----------------------------------------------------

Why are you impersonating me? Sorry, i am no Hillary's fan. Come out of the shadow if you are true fan of Hillary.

Hillary's supporter knew she has nothing to offer but they won't admit it.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Richard, Washington State — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:54:17 GMT

I didn't watch the debate so my opinion about who won and who lost is based pretty much on the posts here.

Apparently nobody won and the biggest losers were the Democrat party and Democrats in general.

To steal from Mark Thieme a bit: It could have been worse. And probably will be.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Sierra, SF — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:58:55 GMT

Ricardo in California: '...But she is still standing" That coming from FOX News ..the anti-clinton channel speaks volumes to all of you right wing nut jobs who claim she was whipped ... I DONT THINK SO!...'

Ricardo, Faux Newz LOVES HILLARY !!
The Neo-cons LOVE HILLARY !!

They know the Republicans wil rip Hillary to shreds !!

The Republicans know that they'll beat Hillary easily
She's dishonest and evasive
She couldn't give an honest answer, last night

She'll have a commission on Social Security ?
In other words, she said she wouldn't raise SS taxes
then, she'd raise the income limit
but now she says she won't.

If she can't stand up to Democrats, how will she stand up to Republicans ?

Don't take the Forked Tongue Express !!
That debate was more exciting than our earthquake, last night !

If the Democratic contenders keep confronting Hillary, she's toast !!
TURN THE PAGE
NO MORE LIARS

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

H P Boston — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:17:15 GMT

Besides, it is not who is against Hillary at this point, it is rather who supports her with great silent affirmation.

=========================================
I second that emotion! I be One, who be two, who be 3
whobedobedo!
It can get better!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Richard, Washington State — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:17:37 GMT

Outwest Canyon County:

"As for me I can't wait for a caucus or primary election to be held, then everything becomes real rather than the fantasy world we're in now.
I still won't tell you who I favor."

Be careful what you wish for. If any of them are close, the recounts and lawsuits will never end. We'll end up needing the Supreme Court to step in just so the Dems can have their convention.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

H P Boston — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:22:42 GMT

Women are the majority!

65% of women vote!
62% of men vote!

152 million women give or take a million more!
148 million men less since the war began, again!

82.5 war hating Mothers!

Vote early, vote often, vote for Hillary!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Lucinda Flaminio, Worcester, Ma. 01608 — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:38:38 GMT

I listened to this debate on the radio, and I must say
that Senator Clinton seemed to me to be target, just not because the other candidates had pointed arguments
with her, but it truely did seem like the "boys" got
together before they started and how does the saying
go, "lined up their ducks". I kept hearing the subconsious desire of all these candidates to figure out a way to get rid of Hillary, just because she is leading and she is a woman, and looking for a justifiable excuse for her to lose, right in front of
and the nation. If you noticed Hillary let them all speak, not saying a word, but let them do their own damn talking and at the same time do the sinking their own ships. Is this all the boys against the one girl? They should be ashamed of themselves, if they say that they have no problem with a woman candidate, they certainly didn't show it last night. They are still talking about Mrs. Clinton's vote on Iran, she gave her reasons whether you like it or not. Let Mrs. Clinton speak for herself which she does quite well.
And, just because you have done a job before, doesn't mean you have done it well, or will do it well again. One doens't have to have done a job in order to be qualified for a certain position. What the
voter needs to decide from hearing from these candidates,is whether or not they think that the particular candidate can do the job, not the candidates themselves. And, why does Mrs.Clinton have to turn her papers in?, was she an eleced official?
Yes, like many other first ladies she was her husbands confident. lets ask Nancy Reagan and Rosalyn
what they thought about this.
Boy, and no pun intended,(as the saying goes) yes, "we have come a long way baby," but the guys still don't know it yet.
Why don't we ask Mrs. Edwards what she thought of that performance last night.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Ruben Stacks, LA CA — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:47:48 GMT

Face it guys, Hillary has more balls than all of the male candidates (GOP and DEMS) put together.

Not so sure about that Ricardo. What is true though is she probably has more balls then you! But then, that's probably not saying much.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

doc/lewisville tx — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:59:57 GMT

let's see,twelve hate filled diatribes by a vitriolic hate-filled blogger named Jerry/Corpus,and not only zero from doc/lewisville,you don't even seem to care.I only want to know if you truly care about freedom of the press,or are they merely convenient words to espouse?Not only has my preference in you declined,I have to wonder now if Fox owns you.Your only purpose seems to be to use the least enlightened,most vitiolic,poisonous hate filled letters you can sift through.Here's a suggestion:try to at least live up to Cronkites' standards,even if you must fake it. P.S. surely there is some journalistic integrity somewhere in your oganization.Please use it more often.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

REG; East Valley Phx. AZ — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:04:50 GMT

There will never be a time when it would be too late to impeach President Bush; there will simply always be benefit in doing so. Even if he should regrettably leave office and escape being impeached, there still would be value in prosecuting him, along with Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and others. There will always be a significant value for sending an over due positive message to the world, an emphatic warning to all future administrations and the much needed encouragement to the American people that America won’t long tolerate the gross dishonesty, the irresponsible abuse of their offices and the self-indulgent use of America’s resources for their own purposes that the Bush administration has constantly and arrogantly demonstrated.

And now, with the next election nearing, it is important for all of us to be totally disciplined in searching our conscience and checking our biases, thereby diligently resisting being led and manipulated, and to objectively decide for ourselves and thus to avoid ‘more of the same’. We can each egotistically enjoy defending our individual biases but without privately looking deep and long at reality and then responsibly discerning our appropriate choice, we will simply have no one to blame but ourselves. We can post our rationalizations on the internet and aggressively spin our opinions at the bar but unless we resist believing our emotional drivel we are literally vulnerable to being used again. Let’s hope we have learned our lesson.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:08:26 GMT

Lucinda - I would be interested in finding out how much of the communications between other first ladies and their president husbands have been made public. As long as Hillary is held to the same standard as they are, I have no problem with requiring her to turn over papers and other such things. But if other first ladies are allowed to keep communications with their husbands private, then she should be as well.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

mike, chicago — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:11:54 GMT

Joe Biden! Can we please get some more coverage of this guy. And who decides the format for this questioning? How about equal time for all the participants instead of focusing on those who you have already decided are the winners. PLEASE...let us decide for ourselves by giving them all a chance. Really....we ARE smart enough to sort it all out. Really.

Sandy

I couldn't agree more. I've always respected Russert, and enjoy Brian Williams when he appears on the Daily show, but they should be embarrassed at the division of questions.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mark Thieme — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:15:28 GMT

Well said Mitchell.

Last scene in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

I always thought they made it.... somehow, until Newman said recently, "We'd do a sequel to that one if they hadn't got killed."

Ruined my whole philosophy of life.

I agree, anyway. Go out blazing. That's why I support Obama.

By the way, in my lifetime, it has never been worse.

God help us.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Eric, Seattle Wash — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:17:01 GMT

The Audacity of Barack Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq56RlGKHQc

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:19:07 GMT

Why do women have to make this 'a Hillary against the boys' thing? Isn't that a bit sexist? I think of Hillary as a lousy candidate and the fact that she is a woman doesn't enter into it. In fact, it's her association with Bill Clinton and his slimy politics, her hiring of the triangulating Mark Penn, the use of the disingenuous mouthpiece, Howard Wolfson, that are large reasons for my disapproval of her candidacy. But most importantly for me, is her Bush-lite war position (obviously this has nothing to do with her gender). I wish you feminazis would realize that most of us are way beyond the gender question. Most of us who don't support Hillary, just don't want 4 more years of a Republican oriented (in policy and behavior) presidency. I want real change and not revision back to the nineties (which were better than the hell were in now but still nowhere good enough).
Obama '08 true agent of change

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mark Thieme — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:30:52 GMT

Mitchell, you think the Penn deal is triangulating... watch very closely the rise of Ron Paul. No he will not be the Republican nominee. He doesn't have to be...

Do you really think that is an accident?

Now there's the hypotenuse of a triangle!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Dot, illinois — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:35:26 GMT

This issue of Senator Clinton's papers from her years as First Lady seems difficult to solve. Wives talk to their husbands,I am sure other former First Ladies discussed important national matters with their husbands, but there are not always written memos of those conversations. So how does one accurately document how much input into policy a wife of the President has had? Also, since those documents that do exist undoubtedly contain personal discussions as well as policy suggestions, who is designated to review them and make the decision as to their relevance?

Given the fact that President Clinton gave the job of fashioning a health care proposal to his wife, I think I am inclined to believe that Senator Clinton did have knowledge of and input into policy decisons, whether documents to substantiate that exist or not.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

CitizenJ — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:39:47 GMT

"Why do women have to make this 'a Hillary against the boys' thing? Isn't that a bit sexist?"

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:19 PM)

Mitchell,

Yes, of course, it is sexist. The thing is, they don't see that. It is something they hold onto because they have not either the desire or the ability to realize the urgency of this campaign. They are part of the group of Americans who believe that we will endure simply because we are Americans. Because of this, the lengths that they will go to are far more superficial than those who realize the desperate state of our union.

Gender is enough for them. It is not enough for me. I have respect for Van (yes, Van) and others who support her because they truly believe that she is best equipped to lead our country. I disagree with them, but I respect them. And I expect the same from them. But I cannot respect someone like "BionicWoman" or "Susan", because all they have is her gender and a general contempt for all things otherwise.

I think I've ranted enough.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Lek — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:44:21 GMT

Most of the women on this blog are sexist. They make it seems Hillary is the victim. Sorry! i ain't buying it. She need to be call out on all the issues.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Dot, Illinois — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:48:11 GMT

One other comment. For weeks now the blog seems to have been saying that MSNBC was pro Senator Clinton. Now, after last night's debate, it seems to be saying that MSNBC is biased against and anti Senator Clinton. So, what happened?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mark Thieme — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:03:37 GMT

MSNBC:
By the way, I agree with HP. Carrie is a very good reason to read First Read...

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Amy B Portland, Me — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 00:36:30 GMT

doc/lewisville tx

I think First Read had a problem keeping up with the postings today. Probably half the staff called in sick after last night or something. It is kinda weird jerry/corpus christi gets multiple slots and they lose my little, mousy gems too. Lets try not to take it personally.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mel, Illinois — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 01:50:13 GMT

Things I have learned from ya'll, since I was unable to watch the debate...he said, she said, he did, he didn't, she did, she didn't. Sigh.

It's the worst it's been in my lifetime, also, Mark.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mel, Illinois — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 02:00:50 GMT

Jerry, CC - Your use of the word myriad is perplexing. It doesn't fit your persona. :-)

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Nancy Abraham Euclid, Ohio — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 02:37:36 GMT

I am a woman and I am delighted that Someone finally took Hillary on and made her cry. I am so sick of her smug attitude that she is the front runner and no one can question her on any serious level. This is the presidency she is running for and not the head of the PTA. As for her papers from the White House they should be made public because she is running on her experience as her husbands first lady. If she really expects people to believe that she was not involved with her husbands decision to keep the papers secret until 2012 then she is quite delusional. Her husband doesn't go to the men's room without her knowing it. I was very disappointed with the way MSNBC handled the whole debate. It was made to be a prize fight instead of a respectable debate on serious matters. This is the main reason we cannot have intelligent discussions in this country. I was sickened by the questions concerning UFO's an Halloween. How completely trivial and insulting to the voters intelligence. And yet the news coverage all day involved the same insult. I want a president who has some morals and values and the Clintons don't have a clue what the definition of those words are.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

nuanced — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 04:08:20 GMT

So what was the official msnbc count on how many times Bush's name was mentioned?
Dave, Tn

--- It was pick on Giuliani night. He claims his name was mentioned more than any of the Democratic candidates.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 14:34:13 GMT

Freeman - Despite her rehearsed answers and avoiding the question, however, she still either won or tied with Obama. What does THAT tell you? Even with rehearsed answers and non-answers, Obama does not beat her.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 14:38:51 GMT

Mark: Right back at you, big guy. :)

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

same in 08 — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:13:32 GMT

I wish Bush & Co were running again, then I wouldn't have to vote for OBAMA. Thins must stay the same so we can change the world to a democarcy and get more wars. Bee is right no hillary just bush lite all the time. no lies and cigas from cuba and toasted edwards.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 16:33:35 GMT

Carrie;

It tells me that she's no longer considered the inevitable nominee. Not that I ever thought that she was.

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

H P Boston — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 16:36:49 GMT

Yes oh yes we confess we are ONLY voting for Hillary b/c we are SEXIST!! Wohooo now you can go back to sleep, you have done your research, interviewed each and every one of us and have concluded we are what you SAY! End of story, we will vote for more free beer at hooters!

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:19:06 GMT

Mitchell: It should also tell you that even when she is not at her best, she's still at the top. Was Obama at his best Tuesday? Was Edwards? I'm not sure I have seen either one of them perform better than in this debate and still it's not enough.

Unless, of course, you think Hillary staffers and the biased MSNBC were fudging the results of the online poll?

First thoughts: Hillary gets cut

Elizabeth Sullivan, San Diego, CA — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 02:56:27 GMT

Carrie,

How many First Ladies chaired healthcare commissions? Don't be naive or try to muddy the issue. The emails being discussed are those of an advisor to the President, not the First Lady.

If she wants her work during the Clinton Administration to be counted as "political experience" rather than "First Lady experience", then she better be able to withstand the accompanying scrutiny.

She should have said that the 6 honorable men seeking the nomination did nothing wrong in challenging her. It shows how far women have come that she is seen as the frontrunner amongst so many talented Democratic candidates. She will wear her debate scars as a badge of honor when she faces the Republican nominee in 2008.

Hillary - put your big girl panties on and grow up.