First thoughts: The race is on

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:39:45 GMT

Does Obama give the Clinton's the right answers?

Only if she finds the right plants to ask her the questions......

I wonder which of the people on the stage on the 15th is the Clinton plant?

First thoughts: The race is on

Toni — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:43:48 GMT

Then there was the acknowledgement during the back-and-forth over the war when Obama admitted that politics of the moment (the 2004 Dem convention) prevented him from totally speaking his mind on Iraq. Isnt' that EXACTLY what he accuses Clinton of?

Mark...give me a break, Kerry and Edwards voted for the war and were running for President. What was he suppose to do other than hedge. If he had come out forcefully against them...he would have been topic de jour or week. It would have been all about his dissing them espically since he was on the dias speaking at the convention. He didn't say he was for it or that he would in retrospect have voted for it. That would have been a flip.

First thoughts: The race is on

squintz, philly, pa — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:46:57 GMT

Fellas, do you really think we're going to buy your interpretation of Senator Obama's MTP performance? Let's get real. Frankly, he took Russert's hits well and by the end your boy looked a little flustered that he wasn't making Obama nervous. I thought Obama's answer regarding the quote Russert read (cutting out a crucial part of that quote, by the way) was fantastic. Not only did he know when the quote was from, he gave an honest answer about why he said what he did. Russert asked him to call out the Democratic President and VP nominees on voting to authorize Iraq DURING THE CONVENTION. Had he given in at the time, it would have been totally innappropriate, and everyone knows it. The fact that he can acknowledge that is impressive and speaks volumes about not only his character but also his knowledge of the game.
Also, please let Mr. Russert know that all the "pledging" he's asking the candidates to do is stupid and the American people can see right through it.

First thoughts: The race is on

Shadow, Hamden, CT — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:49:30 GMT

I disagree with the notion that Edwards needs to attack Obama or vice versa, in order to create a two-way race with Clinton.

Yes, if both men weren't in the race, maybe the complexion would be different - but they're both in, and they're not going anywhere before Iowa. And furthermore, both men benefit from a third place Clinton finish in Iowa, so all in all, it's thoroughly counterproductive for either to attack the other.

First thoughts: The race is on

Amy B Portland, ME — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:53:10 GMT

I just noticed you corrected an earlier posting about John Edwards' reception at the Mellencamp concert. I just wanted to say First Read is the BEST source of political news because you do self police for errors and inadvertant bias. I don't know any other news source that publically questions itself and makes corrections. I feel much more confident now turning to you for my main news source. It was worth navigating the new website to find you today. Keep up the good work!

First thoughts: The race is on

Bee — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:57:15 GMT

By now you pundicts should know that your forcast are wrong 100% of the time. The race is just getting started and i don't hear Obama complaining about Tim Russert like Hillary does.

David Yepsen sum up my whole point regarding the 2008 race. IOWA is critical and David Axelrod is right to detect this earlier on. IOWA is where the new face in national scene make their point to the nation.

Here is my prediction

Democrats

Obama or Edward - (Either one of them will win)
Biden - 3rd
Clinton - 4th

Republican

Huckabee - 1st
Romney - 2nd
Mccain - 3rd

First thoughts: The race is on

Margaret, NYC — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:59:39 GMT

Obama is sooo deceptive. Corporate lobbyists and PACs have funded his political career - from Illinois to the Senate. But he stopped accepted their bribes long enough to enter the prez race and base his campaign on "changing Washington" - ha!

John Edwards has never accepted a dime from Washington lobbyists that influence Congress to write legislation favoring corporations. Naturally the corporate media promotes the candidates in bed with corporate lobbyists.
Go Edwards!

First thoughts: The race is on

Josie, Colombia, SC — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:02:17 GMT

Obama can't win the nomination, it's doubtful Hillary could win the general - but John Edwards could.

First thoughts: The race is on

Rick,ky — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:05:07 GMT

Hillary goes Negative from the beginning of her speech saturday night! With Barack's slogan of Change We Can Beleive in, shortly after taking the stage she say's this""Change is just a word if you don't have the strength and experience to make it happen." Now to me, thats an attack! I'm sure all the hillary lover's will try & spin it some other way AGAIN, but it sure sounds as if she has a lot to be worried about. She sees her coranation blowing up right in front of her. There is a GOD!!! "DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER"

First thoughts: The race is on

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:07:54 GMT

Obama did well against Mr. Russert who always works this way, ask a question, wait for the answer then bring up past words of the person on the hot seat. We can all find moments when we would like to take back something that was said. After awhile it becomes comedic and then boring. Too bad, I used to like Russert but he has become formulaic. Lets see what the next debate brings up, it will be interesting to see who asks what questions and how they are handled, won't change too many minds but the repubs are still defining who they are and look like cars stuck in the mud spinning their wheels. You all gotta love that.
GO DEMS, we got an election to win!

First thoughts: The race is on

Lek — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:09:20 GMT

Margaret, NYC,

Get your facts right. Obama did not accept any money from Federal Lobbyst and PAC same goes for John Edward.

First thoughts: The race is on

Mike, Eugene, Oregon — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:10:18 GMT

I have been surfing various web sites and blogs about Iowa and have note3d that no one is discussing Clinton's campaign planting people in udiances to ask canned questions. Now, we know of at least two cases where this happened in Iowa and there are reports of this from other states. Moreover, there appears to be a concerted effort on her campaigns behalf to plant posters on forums just like this one, defaming Clinton's Democratic opponents, especially Mr. Obama and Mr. Edwards. So, the question for others on this forum is "Haven't we had enough of these sorts of dirty tactics, which look strikelingly like what the Bush people have been doing for the past 7 years?". My question for MSNBC is "Why aren't you headlining all of this? Are you shilling for Clinton?"

First thoughts: The race is on

VL North Carolina — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:15:53 GMT

John Edwards has never accepted a dime from Washington lobbyists that influence Congress to write legislation favoring corporations. Naturally the corporate media promotes the candidates in bed with corporate lobbyists.
Go Edwards!

False....

He did accept lobbyist money while running for Senate in NC...

But it goes to the point...Obama has championed transparency and honestly admitted to taking PACs and lobbyists on Meet the Press this past Sunday.
But by FAR Obama @ Edwards have taken less money from Lobbyist than any other Dem. Candidate except Dennis K.

First thoughts: The race is on

Daniel, NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:20:16 GMT

A fascinating detailed new Florida poll was released today: It has Romney jumping up to second place in the Republican primary, and Thompson tumbling down. And the general election numbers are also fascinating, as things are very close. Link to the poll: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/11/sunday-roundup-florida-is-as-tight-as.html

First thoughts: The race is on

FACT / AZ — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:25:28 GMT

Wellllll, the Washington self serving Paper Hangers are showing a little dribble down from their hidden agenda's,, Here comes the higher taxes!!! Changing their song and dance routine, finger pointing , conjecture, Now lets have some of that "SCANDAL PIE YOU CLOWNS ARE HIDEING"""""!!!!

First thoughts: The race is on

Mark Murray — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:32:30 GMT

Amy -- thank you for the kind words. And thanks for reading!

First thoughts: The race is on

Sierra, SF — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:37:39 GMT

Satan came to visit Hillary Clinton.
He had an offer for her:
'I will guarantee you the Democratic nomination.'
'I will guarantee a LANDSLIDE VICTORY on Nov. 2008'
'All I ask is that you sell out the American people and serve me and my corporate friends.'

Hillary Clinton may be many things, but she's NO FƠOL !
Hillary lơoked Beelzebub in the eye and asked him:

'What's the catch ?'

When's the last time you believed in a President ?
Who was the last President who seemed to be working in the public interest ?

Bush...... I'm a uniter, not a divider
Clinton... I did not have sex with that woman...
Bush I.... read my lips
Reagan.... I did not trade arms for hostages

For me, Jimmy Carter was the last honest person in the White House.
I also thought that Gera;d Ford was a decent man.

That's been about 27 years...
A generation of self-serving liars and con men.

Is it any wonder we're going down hill ?
Is it any wonder that we're losing our manufacturing base, our miđle class jobs and Social Security is on the ropes ?
Er'tr up to out eye balls in debt to China and Japan.
They're both funding the American lifestyle.

Are we changing the system by replacing a dishonest male President with a dishonest female President ?

We can do better
Better than electing a phoney self-serving con woman
Better than a woman who stayed with her adulterous husband out of political ambition.

Edwards/Obama '08
TURN THE PAGE

First thoughts: The race is on

Nan Dunne, Arlington, Va. — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:42:23 GMT

No question that Obama's JJ speech was terrific. Why?
Because he spoke an ultimate, basic truth about campaigns today - that candidates ARE afraid to take positions that either might be unpopular or might be misconstrued. Voters must guess that they would do if elected and base that on the phony personas projected by their image makers. Obama HAS taken risky positions. He said on Meet the Press yesterday that he would not raise the retirement age "to save" Social Security, nor would he cut payments. What was reported in the press was that he would raise the tax cap. It was not reported that he would create a "good doughnut hole" for upper middle earners so that the brunt of the tax would fall on the really wealthy. Much too complicated, I suppose, for the voters - or perhaps the reporters - to grasp.

First thoughts: The race is on

Brian, Cedar Hill, TX — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:45:33 GMT

I watched Meet the Press Sunday morning. Thanks to some revelations and sound bites from Tim Russert of Obama's past statements and positions I think they can call this episode, "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." His recent hits on Hillary for double-talk and talking around issues were beginning to leave a mark until his performance and his history was revealed on MTP. And up until this point, I think he's been riding on the fact that most people don't know much about his past, and take it for granted that what he's saying now was always what he said in the past. This guy did nothing but double-talk, talk-around, back-track, waffle and I even noticed some flip-flopping during Tim's revelations. Hillary's responses to his hits from now on ought to start with, "Right back at ya, Obama - and point out his past and present inconsistencies.

First thoughts: The race is on

Sierra, SF — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:45:54 GMT

From Huffington Post:

'...Clinton Camp Admits To Planting Questions
November 09, 2007 9:06 PM

Eloise Harper Reports: The Clinton campaign has
admitted to planting questions in Iowa. They have
confirmed that a campaign staffer approached a student
to ask Sen. Clinton a question about global warming
during a campaign stop at a biodiesel plant in Newton,
Iowa, on Nov. 6.

The story was first reported by Patrick Caldwell, a
junior at Grinnell College and the features editor of
The Scarlet and Black college newspaper. He reported
that student Muriel Gallo-Chasanoff was approached by
the campaign to ask a question. She told the reporter
that "they wanted a question from a college student."
She also said that she "noted that staffers prompted
Clinton to call on her and another who had been
approached before the event, although Clinton used her
discretion to select questions and called on people
who had not been prepped beforehand. Some of the
questions asked were confusing and clearly
off-message."

Clinton Campaign spokesperson Mo Elleithee tells ABC
News that "on this occasion a member of our staff did
discuss a possible question about Sen. Clinton's
energy plan at a forum. However, Sen. Clinton did not
know which questioners she was calling on during the
event. This is not standard policy and will not be
repeated again."

The staffer still remains with the Clinton campaign
and they would not reveal his or her name. The
campaign did not comment on whether this is the only
time they have planted questions among audience
members.

Last month Clinton got into a tough exchange with
Iowan Randall Rolph at an event in New Hampton, Iowa.
She accused him of being a plant from another campaign
and the two engaged in a heated back and forth. The
exchange prompted extended media coverage...'

Notice that Hillary was accusing someone of being a 'plant'.
Hillary was accusing other campaigns of doing WHAT HER CAMPAIGN WAS DOING !!
In other words, the Clinton campaign was using plants LAST MONTH (a probably before that).
Sound like the Rove playbơk ?

I kept hearing rumors that the Clinto campaign was behind the Edwards $400 hair cut.
They kept bringing it up and pushing that story.
What other dirty tricks has 'Team Clinton' bên up to ?

I was accused by van of posting under an assumed name.
I denied it and asked if HE posted under assumed names

He didn't answer.
Accusing others of doing what you do
Team Clinton, the dishonesty starts at the top

Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandal and divisiveness

First thoughts: The race is on

H P Boston — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:47:10 GMT

Obama is sooo deceptive. Corporate lobbyists and PACs have funded his political career - from Illinois to the Senate. But he stopped accepted their bribes long enough to enter the prez race and base his campaign on "changing Washington" - ha! SO TRUE!!!

Bee will sting you for that Margaret!
You were supposed to sling some Hillary hate, you know you can't post without it! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ:)

First thoughts: The race is on

Benny — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:48:00 GMT

Edwards had an equally strong performance at the JJ Dinner as Obama did. Edwards went on passionately about what the Democratic Party should do, which is to be the voice for the voiceless. His voice broke a little when he said, and several bloggers noted that that moment endeared them to him.

I think Edwards and Obama should continue to mount the pressure on Clinton. But it's time the MSM start reporting things on Obama such as ducking important votes (AG, Kyl-Lieberman amdt) because of fundraising activities. Ducking important votes doesn't show leadership. It shows that fundraising is more important.

The biggest loser at the moment is Richardson for that handout with incorrect information about Edwards' plan to lead us out of the occupation of Iraq during Edwards speech. Maybe Richardson is running for VP, maybe for a cabinet post, but seems to me Wes Clark has a better chance for either.

First thoughts: The race is on

H P Boston — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:48:19 GMT

Obama is sooo deceptive. Corporate lobbyists and PACs have funded his political career - from Illinois to the Senate. But he stopped accepted their bribes long enough to enter the prez race and base his campaign on "changing Washington" - ha! SO TRUE!!!

Bee will sting you for that Margaret!
You were supposed to sling some Hillary hate, you know you can't post without it! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ:)

First thoughts: The race is on

mikeeg,abdn,wa — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:52:25 GMT

Where are all the other topics to post on, you know like IRAQ AND IRAN, how about health care, surely there are more subjects to talk about, COME ON FIRST READ GET WITH IT!

First thoughts: The race is on

Lenny Winslow, Cleveland Ohio — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:04:19 GMT

Where are all the other topics to post on, you know like IRAQ AND IRAN, how about health care, surely there are more subjects to talk about, COME ON FIRST READ GET WITH IT!

Great positive progress is being made on all fronts for these items. No [bad] news to report.

First thoughts: The race is on

Ron, TX — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:06:23 GMT

Obama has to raise money to compete with the Clinton-machine. He doesn't beat around the bush. He admits it. He DOESN'T however, refer to lobbyists as "ordinary people" ala Hillary Clinton. Between him and Clinton, HE supported and HELPED PASS the ethics reform legislation with Feingold that helped cut back lobbyist influence, the first major ethics reform in 25 years. HE stood in front of hedge fund owners and told them they need to pay their fair share of taxes. HE stood in front of automakers and told them they need to reduce emissions. HE stood in front of teachers unions and told them they need merit-based pay to increase the quality of education in this nation.

Make no mistakes- Obama tells it like he sees it. He talks the talk, and he also walks the walk.

First thoughts: The race is on

MK,MO — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:07:54 GMT

mikeeg,abdn,wa /'Where are all the other topics to post on, you know like IRAQ AND IRAN, how about health care, surely there are more subjects to talk about, COME ON FIRST READ GET WITH IT!'

I agree, some posting about our ever souring economy would be great also, if you are not fortunate enough to be in the 'investmate class' things are pretty miserable, and buy next summer look as though they could be intolerable.

hillary has already lost the nomination, dry your eyes and lets move on

First thoughts: The race is on

The Buzz — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:09:02 GMT

FYI Bee, the nickname was "Slick Willy" not Slicky Bill,

I hear you carrie but you get the point
Bee (Sent Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:37 PM)
------------------------------------------------------***The point is whoever you are Bee, you are really reaching when you try to "bee" who you are not!
Watching you (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 10:40 AM)

First thoughts: The race is on

HILLARY 08 — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:15:03 GMT

This guy did nothing but double-talk, talk-around, back-track, waffle and I even noticed some flip-flopping during Tim's revelations. Hillary's responses to his hits from now on ought to start with, "Right back at ya, Obama - and point out his past and present inconsistencies.
Brian Cedar Hill Tx,

That is exactly what I heard from Obama, double talk and his usual stuttering and stammering and NO ANSWERS!

First thoughts: The race is on

DickieFlatts, Charlotte, NC — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:16:15 GMT

A campaign town hall isn't exactly a FEMA presser. It is small change going after CLinton on this stuff.

Rudy's friend, biz partner , and polic chief is looking at 25 years in the slam and are focused on this grade school Edwards Obama Clinton dust up. We can see right were the media is going to play '08. "Hillary Clinton invented the internet." It is going to be '00 all over again.

First thoughts: The race is on

HILLARY 08 — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:18:09 GMT

First thoughts: The race is on

Rick, WS, NC — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:22:30 GMT

Love the obama SS plan...jack up taxes so congress can spend it...that won't save SS it will just create more worthless chits from the congress to us...

First thoughts: The race is on

Bee — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:22:56 GMT

H P Boston,

Do i expect anything better from Hillary spin machine. Please tell me the reason why your candidate is slipping in granite state. She is nothing but a nucke head that is full of fluffs.

Where is her principle? I guess she see Democratic Party as Clinton's controll empire, eh.

First thoughts: The race is on

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:22:57 GMT

With the amount of disinformation on the lead up to the Iraq War, the first year of the Iraq War, the continuation of the Iraq War, anything about the Iraq War, not to mention the early disinformation lead up to the yet-to-be Iran War, by the Dysfunctional Bush II Administration, how can one expect the Democrats to answer for anything concerning it? Remember, they were out in the cold on everything concerning Government, till the last election. It's going to take some time to unravel the Georgian Knot that was created the last seven years. Not to mention the current final retreat by this Administration, which resembles Germany backing out of Italy in WWII. If Iran is actually attacked by them, it would be fair to call it, the "Battle of the Bulge II/Look Over There! It's Elvis!". (That's Elvis as in Clinton.)

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:28:03 GMT

Bee-
So Silly so misguided, so confused and so biased that she couldn't even recognize someone trying to cherry-pick poll numbers in Obama's favor...

Has Shown Best Judgment
Clinton Obama Edwards Richardson Other Und. (N=)
24% 24% 15% 10% 8% 18% 390

- Clinton has all that experience- yet has shown no better judgment than the candidate with only '4%' experience

DEM Candidate Least Likely to Vote For
Clinton Edwards Obama Richardson Other Und. (N=)
22% 17% 15% 40% 1% 5% 397

-That's Clinton for ya, always shootin' for those high poll numbers

Also taken from
www.unh.edu/survey-center/news/pdf/bg_2007-nov11.pdf
kmnecole, st louis, mo (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 9:52 AM)

kmnecole, st louis, mo,

Why don't you come out of the shadow of Van? Another deception from Clinton's machine

Bee (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 10:27 AM)

You are a simplex thinker in a complex world...

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

Sierra, SF — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:35:17 GMT

'...Mrs. Clinton, speaking to reporters in Iowa, said she was unaware that her aides had ever planted questions.”...'

If Hillary didn't know there were planted questions..
WHY DID SHE CALL ON THE PEOPLE HER AIDES POINTED OUT TO HER ?
Why did she think her aides were asking her to call on specific people ?
SHE'S LYING, AGAIN !!
Why did she accuse a questioner of being a 'plant' ?

'...More: Political analysts said that while planting questions is not the worst sin of a campaign operation, the practice could reinforce negative opinions about Mrs. Clinton. ‘The problem for Hillary Clinton is the whole spin that’s going to happen — that she and her campaign are manipulative and scheming and that she is essentially trying to bend the rules to maintain her lead in the polls,’ said Steffen W. Schmidt, a political science professor...'

Hillary CHEATING ?
Who'd a thunk it ?
'...her campaign are manipulative and scheming...'
The truth is out !

Hillary even chose a crơoked campaign manager, Mark Penn, a Karl Rove 'wannabe'.
The Clintons have ALWAYS bent the rules or broken the laws to get their way.

Is THAT what you want in the nominee ?
An unethical insider who won't tell where she stands ?
Is THAT what you want in a President ?
Someone who talks out of both sides of her mouth ?

I thought we already had that
Hillary Clinton, more of the same

Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandal and divisiveness

First thoughts: The race is on

MK,MO — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:49:54 GMT

HILLARY 08 / That is exactly what I heard from Obama, double talk and his usual stuttering and stammering and NO ANSWERS!

listen to Edwards once, it doesn't bother him to give a straight answer, hillary and obama should try it sometime. Drop the novelty candidates and vote for someone who can win the general election and has the best plans, that is what the dems need to do is it not?
Edwards 08

First thoughts: The race is on

H P Boston — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:50:45 GMT

H P Boston,

Do i expect anything better from Hillary spin machine. Please tell me the reason why your candidate is slipping in granite state. She is nothing but a knuckle head that is full of fluffs.

Where is her principle? I guess she see Democratic Party as Clinton's controlled empire, eh.
Bee (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 11:22 AM)

------------------------------------------------------OH my god Bee you lost your groove! You gotta get back the lucid posts of early morn.
Please tell me why you are slipping back to your backward ways so soon.
Bee you are a fraud! LOL

First thoughts: The race is on

lyn, MD — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:51:35 GMT

VAn...I havn't heard you comment on your candidates performance saturday night.....

Does she really think you "turn up the heat" on Gobal warming?

For that matter on the "plant' up roar. BTW this is the second time they have tried this, so obiviously her saying it won't happen again means nothing

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:53:09 GMT

Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandal and divisiveness

Sierra, SF (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 11:35 AM)

Sierra, 27 posts a day that say the same thing...

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

karlos — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:55:54 GMT

hill's slogan to turn up the heat is to the gop. last debate they turned up the heat on hill and she is trying to get out of the kitchen and throw the debate toward the gop so far she's dodged the question,planted questions to avoid further embarrassment, and used bill as a scapegoat on health care. nice track record for a candidate. if you want a track record and someone who won't play political dodgeball, call biden. i wish he would have dodged a couple as his answers were misconstrued and caused problems. that's what umscripted straight talk gets you occasionally. you don't review every word for hidden or misimplied meaning biden is by far the best candidate for 08' on the demo side and he's at 4%, go figure.

First thoughts: The race is on

mikeeg,abdn,wa — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:57:59 GMT

Hey first read how about some news on Veterans, I mean today we are celebrating Veterans Day or are you too busy with important stuff like what color is rudy wearing today. THANKS to all veterans even those I disagree with. USMC 67-71 nam69-70

First thoughts: The race is on

diane — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:01:27 GMT

Concidering the busy day and very long night were obama probably got very little sleep, I would think his MTP gig was laudible. He was hit with the usual Russert tough questions all hour and did no damage to himself. Besides, he was there face to face with Russert answering whatever he asked. Unlike another candidate who needed the safety of home turf, not being face to face. Needing total control and still she would not answer the questions.

First thoughts: The race is on

Michael, Los Angeles — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:01:57 GMT

I watched the meet the press with Barack yesterday and I have to agree with Chuck Todd of MSNBC's analysis -

Obama 'Meets The Press': For the most part, Obama seemed to handle as well as he could the various contradictions that NBC's Russert presented. The question, of course, is which answers did he give that the Clinton campaign -- or another one -- believes it can use against him. His answers on the war? What about lobbyists? He didn't really have a straight answer as to why he accepts money from state lobbyists and not federal lobbyists. Then there was the acknowledgement during the back-and-forth over the war when Obama admitted that politics of the moment (the 2004 Dem convention) prevented him from totally speaking his mind on Iraq. Isnt' that EXACTLY what he accuses Clinton of? Obama tried to make light of that moment in July 2004, but something tells us we'll see that soundbite again.

I think this is something to bring up - Two times Obama said he curtailed his "true" beliefs because it wasn't popular - And I think Chuck Todd - Paints it right - Obama isn't advocating a new direction in politics he is just advocated politics of the moment - he says what sounds good at the time -

Point after point -

Social Security
Iraq War
Iran Resolution -

I think someone needs to start pointing this things out.

First thoughts: The race is on

Rosa Roberts, Madison , WI — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:03:08 GMT

I will never vote for Hillary Clinton no matter what the polls say. I can not relate to her no matter how hard I try. I don't trust her and I'm very disappointed with her flip flopping on the war issue.

First thoughts: The race is on

Scott, PA — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:11:01 GMT

If we talked and focused more on Iraq, Iran and Pakistan. We would focus more on what Biden has to say.

First thoughts: The race is on

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:11:19 GMT

Van: One thing we do know in here.....

We know YOU are the plant for Hillary Clinton.....

What a lying little woman she is.....

First thoughts: The race is on

Fox,Foxbourough, Ma — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:14:35 GMT

obama. what has he ever done as elected official.... ?

anyone?

NOT what he said, but what has he done?

so far as his record shows, he'd DONE nothing.

please list his major accomplishments.

First thoughts: The race is on

Dot, Illinois — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:15:02 GMT

With a debate on tap for Thursday -- which couldn't be coming at a better time for Clinton
--------------------------------------

Is this a debate on specific issues or is it a general "anything goes" debate? You can see where I am going with this. Is anybody else wondering what would happen if the driver's licenses for immigrants question comes up again?

First thoughts: The race is on

Flat-earther, Georgia — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:22:48 GMT

First Read, I like your wallpaper at the top of the site. Has anyone commented on the evil-looking sinister donkey or the shady-looking con-man elephant?

First thoughts: The race is on

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:23:33 GMT

Clinton Campaign spokesperson Mo Elleithee tells ABC
News that "on this occasion a member of our staff did
discuss a possible question about Sen. Clinton's
energy plan at a forum. However, Sen. Clinton did not
know which questioners she was calling on during the
event. This is not standard policy and will not be
repeated again."

Really?....

And you must also ensure that Hillary leaves a tip at every eatery between now and the Iowa caucus.

First thoughts: The race is on

Michael, Los Angeles CA — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:36:17 GMT

How come no one says anything about Barrack less than true answers or his flip flops that TR pointed out on Meet the Press Yesterday?

On Iraq - why did he vote along with all the democrats in fund bill after bill

On Social Security - why did he say exactly the same thing Clinton is saying - Keeping all options on the table.

On Gays - why pick a bigot to be your voice on a southern gospal tour - how is that the right message?

On Iran - How come it was such an important issue that he did not even vote againest or build a group to oppose the bill

Something tells me the politics of the moment is now the politics of hope...

First thoughts: The race is on

Michael, Los Angeles CA — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:37:06 GMT

Fact Check: Obama on Meet the Press
Iran
Sen. Obama criticized Hillary's vote for Kyl-Lieberman because—he argued—the resolution said that force structures in Iraq would have an impact on Iranian influence:

The primary difference between myself and Senator Clinton is that she believes our force structure inside Iraq should in part depend on how we can prevent Iran from having influence inside of Iraq.
Actually, Sen. Obama said the exact same thing just last year:

A reduced but active presence [in Iraq] will also send a clear message to hostile countries like Iran and Syria that we intend to remain a key player in this region
…Make no mistake, if the Iranians and Syrians think they can use Iraq as another Afghanistan or a staging area from which to attack Israel or other countries, they are badly mistaken. It is in our national interest to prevent this from happening.
Social Security
Sen. Obama claimed that Hillary said that all we need to do to solve the long term challenges in social security is return to fiscal responsibility:

So on social security for example, she has maintained, it appears, that if we just get our fiscal house in order that we can solve the problem of Social Security.
Actually, Hillary said that returning to fiscal responsibility is the first step. Then she would appoint a bi-partisan commission to address Social Security's long term challenges that would consider a variety of options:

"But I am strongly advocating a bipartisan process, similar to what we had in '83, and when that gets set up, as I hope it will be when I'm president, then I'm going to see what the bipartisan members are going to come up with."
This was an approach that, until very recently, Sen. Obama endorsed. Here's Sen. Obama in May:

Everything should be on the table. I think we should approach it the same way Tip O'Neill and Ronald Reagan did back in 1983. They came together. I don't want to lay out my preferences beforehand, but what I know is that Social Security is solvable. It is not as difficult a problem as we're going to have with Medicaid and Medicare.

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:51:01 GMT

Van: One thing we do know in here.....

We know YOU are the plant for Hillary Clinton.....

What a lying little woman she is.....

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 12:11 PM)

I apologize in advance for taking the bait and giving the attention-starved little heckler exactly what he's trolling for in every post he makes...

You are a heckler at banquet, the uncle everyone dreads having to spend time with during the holidays, a barroom pariah who only opens his mouth to disagree with someone else.
Again, you call me out, when you should be posting about st.Rudy of 9/11's fine judgment and the superb character of his appointees as Mayor of NY, and/or any of the other FATALLY FLAWED candidates from the party that will be TOTALLY out of power and unable to continue screwing up the country come November 2008.
No one cares what a REPUBLICAN has to say about the democrats, least of all you. Your Clinton hatred is so over the top that it really says much more about you than the object of your obsession.
Of course you tend to steer clear of the republican threads, because you are simply a heckler, with nothing more to offer than your infantile need for attention.
You've gotten all you're going to get from me.

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

H P Boston — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:00:39 GMT

Well said Van, I now declare jerry dead to all. RIP!
Sign up folks you are all welcome to ONLY place flowers on j's grave. Or Not, the choice as we say is yours, discourse at your own risk.

First thoughts: The race is on

Elizabeth Sullivan, San Diego, CA — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:04:08 GMT

I saw Obama on MTP and I was disappointed.

I support Biden but always thought that I might switch to Obama if Biden drops out (please don't let it be so).

What was revealed by Russert has made me rethink that choice. He seemed very evasive and a bit hypocritical regarding campaign funding.

Unfortunately, Clinton is just as bad.

The front-runners have no foreign policy experience, 8 years or less Senate experience, and no major political accomplishments to point to.

The front-runners have all engaged in double-speak. They all say they are about change but what kind?

Edwards was in the Senate for 8 years. That was 4 years ago. Are you telling me that he could deal with Pakistan? You think he is current on that issue, ready to go on Inaguration Day? You think he has a history of coalition building in the Senate that he can rely on to get things done? After the campaign rhetoric has died down is he really the one to lead this country? He is the best prepared to do so?

Hillary Clinton might be able to defeat the Republican candidate but at what cost? A country torn apart by divisive campaign tactics and a lack of transparency? An administration with no good will from the other side of the aisle? 4 more years of stagnation? Losses in the Congress?

I hope Iowa Democrats keep Biden in the race.

First thoughts: The race is on

Justin, Gainesville FL — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:06:33 GMT

"Turn up the heat?"

Let's review Hillary's "qualifications" for the office:

* Failed health care initiative, which we know as little about today as we did in 1996 thanks to secretive and authoritarian restrictions on records releases

* 7 years in the Senate, largely spent supporting President Bush's executive power grabs, the out-of-control war on terror, and jelly-spined efforts (where present) at enacting anything resembling a left-of-center agenda

* 15+ years in national politics, largely spent taking donations from the very business and other special interests that run counter to the basic American principles of level playing fields and equal treatment under the law

* Directing staffers to plant questions/people in audiences

* Accusing non-plant audience members of being plants for other campaigns (gee, where have we seen political campaigns accusing others of what they themselves do, hmmm)

* A milquetoast slogan, clearly an attempt to play off another campaign's slogan, that is better suited for use with criminal organization strongmen collecting "donations" in chinatown than for any political campaign

What a glamorous resume.

First thoughts: The race is on

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:11:02 GMT

Van has the ultimate gumption to tell me......

Again, you call me out, when you should be posting about st.Rudy of 9/11's fine judgment and the superb character of his appointees as Mayor of NY, and/or any of the other FATALLY FLAWED candidates from the party that will be TOTALLY out of power and unable to continue screwing up the country come November 2008.

No, Van, with the little things that Rudy has had problems pales in comparison to what your girl has had to deal with lately:

Shall we review?

Not tipping the waitress in Iowa (yes, we've heard the she said/she said stuff out of Iowa, too bad she never tipped the waitress in new York state 7 years ago, so we know she is a tipper skipper).

Unable to answer the most simple of questions when it comes to drivers licenses to illegal aliens. Anybody who does not have the common sense to answer that question should drop out of the race today.

Leaving her husband to go swift boat on the media, get caught in a lie on his paperwork and dig a hole deeper then his wife left in Philadelphia.

Now having to deal with planted questions, which makes her look more like the director of FEMA then a presidential candidate.

No, Van. my guys seem to be doing quite well. I see that Norman Hsu has been brought back into the news and there is still talk about how Hillary never answers the tough questions and is scared of debating men. Your girl is a little down and after all the problems she has had, I can understand she is walking (rather limping) into Las vegas for the next debate. You better just concentrate on making sure your girl answers the questions truthfully, obviously she had a problem with that last time.

First thoughts: The race is on

Sierra, SF — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:14:00 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY: '...Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandal and divisiveness

Sierra, SF (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 11:35 AM)

Sierra, 27 posts a day that say the same thing...
Van
vanreuter, NY NY...'

Gee, van
It must be a dog's life....
Hillary caught lying about IDs for illegal aliens....
Hillary slipping in the polls....
Hillary losing her aura of 'inevitability' ...
Bill having to defend Hillary from 'Swift Boating'...
Hillary caught putting 'planted questions' in Iowa..
Hillary having to 'publicly' attack Obama...
(her campaign has been quitely attacking all campaign)

I feel your pain, van !!
Hang in there, van !!
Maybe Edwards will appoint Hillary Secretary of Health and Human Services !!
(I hear she had a lot of 'experience' ;-0 )

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, unethical

Hillary Clinton, the Richard Nixon of the Democratic party

Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandal and divisiveness

First thoughts: The race is on

Margaret, NYC — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:15:23 GMT

Lek - you're wrong. Corporate lobbyists and PACs have funded Obama's political career. He only stopped accepting their bribes THIS YEAR!
However, there are ways around his "pledge" --

>>>>Still, for hosting events and otherwise raising money, the Obama fundraising team is relying on partners in lobbying firms who are not registered for specific clients, former lobbyists who recently dropped clients and spouses of lobbyists. The strategy allows Obama's team to reach the wealthy clients of lobbying firms while technically complying with his pledge.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/14/AR2007041401491_pf.html

First thoughts: The race is on

Richard, FL — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:29:16 GMT

Desperate people are prey to politicians offering "hope" and "nostalgia."
Informed voters see the media hype and support John Edwards for his specific policies and solutions.

First thoughts: The race is on

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:32:06 GMT

I didn't read Jerrys post, just perused it quickly, so much the same, no defence of his party or candidates just an attack on the woman he hates the most, Boring, he is starting to sound like Mr. paperhanger. It seems he is a Mitt man, well hallalujah, god save the queen, oppps Jerry hates the queen. We all know that, what we don't know is what he thinks should be our next move to get out from under these problems Cheneyman and Bushboy have created. There are many people I can agree or disagree with, they make points, Jerry just flings his poop and looks for acknowledgement. Don't give it to him, it just gets him worked up.
It would seem that the repubs are getting into attack mode on each other, lets just watch and see what mud comes out of this dust up.
Thanks to all you veterans out there, thanks for your service, god bless and keep you.

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:36:46 GMT

Allow me to shed some light where you try to turn up the heat...

Let's review Hillary's "qualifications" for the office:

* Failed health care initiative, which we know as little about today as we did in 1996 thanks to secretive and authoritarian restrictions on records releases

1-The Clinton White House publicly released 13,400 pages of documents regarding Hillary's related health-care "working group" to resolve a 1994 lawsuit. And Clinton campaign spokes-man Jay Carson says that as many as half a million health-care papers have now been disclosed,
http://www.newsweek.com/id/67939

* 7 years in the Senate, largely spent supporting President Bush's executive power grabs, the out-of-control war on terror, and jelly-spined efforts (where present) at enacting anything resembling a left-of-center agenda

2-Clinton 70.2 rating National Journal

http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=asc#vr

Clinton is a radical Democrat according to GovTrack's own analysis of bill sponsorship. (Where do these labels come from?) SurveyUSA reports Clinton's job approval rating at 74% as of 2006-11-22. The average approval rating among senators is 56%. See their survey details or approval tracker for more information.

* 15+ years in national politics, largely spent taking donations from the very business and other special interests that run counter to the basic American principles of level playing fields and equal treatment under the law.

3-I find that the existing evidence, based on her Senatorial voting records compiled by Progressive Punch, Americans for Democratic Action, AFL-CIO and SEIU, does not really support this allegation. Indeed, the evidence suggests that Sen. Clinton's voting patterns are substantially and surprisingly progressive (ranging typically from 90-100%), including on corporate or labor issues. There are certainly serious issues where Sen. Clinton has unfortunately taken anti-progressive positions (e.g., her vote for a version of the Bankruptcy Bill in 2001), but the data reviewed here suggests that overall, she is far more progressive than corporatist.

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011131.php

* Directing staffers to plant questions/people in audiences

4-I think that's stupid, but candidates don't prep questioners or carry money for tips.

* Accusing non-plant audience members of being plants for other campaigns (gee, where have we seen political campaigns accusing others of what they themselves do, hmmm)

5-Rolfe WAS a plant.

* A milquetoast slogan, clearly an attempt to play off another campaign's slogan, that is better suited for use with criminal organization strongmen collecting "donations" in chinatown than for any political campaign

5-"If you can't stand the heat..."; Look this one up as IT is what the Clinton slogan trades on. I'll give you a hint, the guy who said it is a former haberdasher
Your racist comment on Asians is despicable and more important, just plain WRONG. I'll let CONGRESSMAN Mike Honda answer this one;

Washington, DC – Today, Congressman Mike Honda issued the following statement in response to the L.A. Times story (October 19, 2007), “An unlikely treasure-trove of donors for Clinton”:
“I am appalled by the irresponsible and biased portrayal of the Asian American immigrant community, published by the L.A. Times today. The reporting unfairly attributes selected individual cases to an entire ethnic community in a major metropolitan area. Such an unfair, sweeping, and negative portrayal has a significant chilling effect on the civic participation by all Asian Americans, who merely want their fair chance to participate in the American political process.

http://honda.house.gov/list/press/ca15_honda/latimes_donorstory_101907.html

What a glamorous resume.

What a badly thought-out smear attempt...

Justin, Gainesville FL (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 1:06 PM)

Please respond with you fact-filled rebuttal. I look forward to it.

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

mark elgin il — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:37:57 GMT

Let me help all you geniuses Iam from Illinois Obama is just as dirty as the rest his wife isnt no angel neither she all of sudden got a $200.000 dollar raise from Chicago Hospitals when he became U.S.Senator when the media was chasing Obama to find out are you going to run for President in 2008 his answer was will Bob i have to what best for me me me me not what I can do for the american people. And that house deal for that extra yard is as gray as it can be.

You people better wake up this country's heading for a big hurt we need a war time President that knows how to lead. John McCain is the answer

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:40:41 GMT

Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandal and divisiveness

Sierra, SF (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 1:14 PM)

Sierra-27 posts a day on the same thing...
Only 17 posts to go today to prove me right.

Van
(I'm mocking you.)

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

Sierra, SF — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:53:07 GMT

DickieFlatts, Charlotte, NC: '...A campaign town hall isn't exactly a FEMA presser. It is small change going after CLinton on this stuff...'

You have to admit, DickieFlatts this shows how unethical and dishonest Hillary is.
She denies that she know there were planted questions.
But, she called on the people her aides poihnted out !
She DID KNOW there were planted questions !
Why does she NEED planted questions ?
Why won't she answer unscripted questions ?
Qhy won't she ANSWER QUESTIONS, HONESTLY ?

Is Hillary Clinton is 'primary mode', giving 'primary mode' lies ?
Is Hillary Clinton is 'general election mode', giving 'general election mode' lies ?

Why does she have 'primary mode' and 'general election mode' ?
See the problem, Dickie ?

Michael, Los Angeles: '...Then there was the acknowledgement during the back-and-forth over the war when Obama admitted that politics of the moment (the 2004 Dem convention) prevented him from totally speaking his mind on Iraq...'

Nice try, Michael !
Obama was at the 2004 Democratic convention
Both nominees had voted for the war
Is Obama supposed to publicly PICK A FIGHT with the nominees ?

It's called being diplomatic, Michael
He was suporting the Democratic ticket
Which is what I hope Hillary and her supporters will do when the Democrats nominate Edwards and Obama or Obama and Edwards next year !!

Compare this to Hillary's answer as to whether she supports

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, unethical

First thoughts: The race is on

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:56:27 GMT

Well John:

Listening to the non-answers your girl gives and her inability to get herself out of jams when she cannot even answer the most simple of questions goes to show what kind of a woman she really is....

I can name several women that could take Hillary's place on the democratic. Several of them have their own honesty problems. You agree John that Hillary cannot answer a simple question like driver's licenses for illegal aliens because she has been trained well by her husband. His idea of avoiding the hard questions and getting elected based on a pack of lies he told the people shows that people like the Clinton's have no honor or no shame. The stories that come out of the media, everything from women servicing Bill Clinton to a girlfriend for Hillary Clinton shows that if she is elected President, this is the kind of stories we can look forward to for the next four years. I'm sure under a Hillary administration that there will be all sorts of controversy and even a few books or two about bringing dishonor to the office will come out about Hillary.

If Hillary wins, it is because America wants people that will drag the country down, just like Bill Clinton did in the 90's. Then we will just sit back and laugh at the total stupidity the democrats bring to the party and after two years, the republicans will be back in power. Happened with the Clinton's first time, will happen again. The Clinton's have proven that not answering the questions is the best way to stay in power, because Liberal Americans are just too gullible.

First thoughts: The race is on

Bee — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:06:18 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY,

Dang! you must have been dreaming all along. I can't help but laugh. The 1 million dollar question in granite state is this, why is the people of NH backing away from madame Clinton?

I guess she is as slicky as her husband...lol... what about her new slogan? "Turn up the heat"...another fluffs from madame clinton.

Let me paraphrase her slogan and draw the connection between the slogan and clinton agenda.

Clinton: When it comes to global warming, what shoud we do?

Clinton's supporter : Turn up the heat

Clinton: When it comes to Social security, what do we do?

Clinton Supporter: Turn up the heat

Here is the question that the clinton's supporter must answer. How can you solve a global warming problem by turning up the heat? Don't you think the whole ice will melt by the time you turn up the heat.

How does she intend to govern when infact she has turned up the heat on the republican and the independent?

Although Clinton and her campaign won't admit it, it is imperative to know that the cliche of "Turn up the heat" won't cut it.

I know i am fired up and ready to go solve a problem. I am not ready to tun up the heat on my fellow independent and like minded republican.

First thoughts: The race is on

Bee — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:08:17 GMT

The Buzz,

You must be living in a lala land. Please wake up from your slumber. I am not scared of slicky will and Hill. I know the machine like to scare people but i am not scared....hahahahahaha

First thoughts: The race is on

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:16:31 GMT

Rated 21% by NTU, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes. (Dec 2003)
Rated 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002
Rated 35% by the US COC, indicating a mixed business voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 17% by CATO, indicating a pro-fair trade voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 0% by the Christian Coalition: an anti-family voting record. (Dec 2003)

Van, your little pro Hillary BS pales in comparison with the real world. Your girl still has some serious issues as I have noted above....

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:20:04 GMT

Here is the question that the clinton's supporter must answer. How can you solve a global warming problem by turning up the heat? Don't you think the whole ice will melt by the time you turn up the heat.

Answer; You are an illiterate.

Clinton-"When the REPUBLICANS say..."

What do WE say? Crowd: "Turn up the HEAT!"

That is the call-and-answer from the JJ speech.

I don't think that you're willfully misinterpreting as some have been, I am sure that your limited language skills and blind follower's trait of parroting everything bad that you hear about Hillary, REGARDLESS of the veracity or SOURCE, render you incapable of discerning the nuances of the language that you mangle so badly on this blog.
So, even though you are again 100% in the wrong, I'll give you a pass on this one.

and you call OTHER people knuckleheads?

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

Bee — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:34:13 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY,

I must be getting under your skin today...lol...hahahahahahahahaa

Van is mad as hell...turn up the heat lol..lol.

First thoughts: The race is on

Dante — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:39:50 GMT

Clinton admires Obama, she continues to "borrow" his slogans and ideas. It would be nice if she could display some originality. Van, you have to admit the "turn up the heat" slogan is a bit too much like "fired up", but hers just really don't make sense!! I mean really "Turn up the heat" that has a bit of a negative connotation to it. I am sure that wasn't her intent, but I think she will be best served by zapping that. It really doesn't work and I can see that leading to the moderators really "turning up the heat on her" at the next debate!!

First thoughts: The race is on

Michael, Los Angeles — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:45:12 GMT

WAY TO GO VAN -

I see how BEE and JERRY never answer these facts -

Fact Check: Obama on Meet the Press
Iran
Sen. Obama criticized Hillary's vote for Kyl-Lieberman because—he argued—the resolution said that force structures in Iraq would have an impact on Iranian influence:

The primary difference between myself and Senator Clinton is that she believes our force structure inside Iraq should in part depend on how we can prevent Iran from having influence inside of Iraq.
Actually, Sen. Obama said the exact same thing just last year:

A reduced but active presence [in Iraq] will also send a clear message to hostile countries like Iran and Syria that we intend to remain a key player in this region
…Make no mistake, if the Iranians and Syrians think they can use Iraq as another Afghanistan or a staging area from which to attack Israel or other countries, they are badly mistaken. It is in our national interest to prevent this from happening.
Social Security
Sen. Obama claimed that Hillary said that all we need to do to solve the long term challenges in social security is return to fiscal responsibility:

So on social security for example, she has maintained, it appears, that if we just get our fiscal house in order that we can solve the problem of Social Security.
Actually, Hillary said that returning to fiscal responsibility is the first step. Then she would appoint a bi-partisan commission to address Social Security's long term challenges that would consider a variety of options:

"But I am strongly advocating a bipartisan process, similar to what we had in '83, and when that gets set up, as I hope it will be when I'm president, then I'm going to see what the bipartisan members are going to come up with."
This was an approach that, until very recently, Sen. Obama endorsed. Here's Sen. Obama in May:

Everything should be on the table. I think we should approach it the same way Tip O'Neill and Ronald Reagan did back in 1983. They came together. I don't want to lay out my preferences beforehand, but what I know is that Social Security is solvable. It is not as difficult a problem as we're going to have with Medicaid and Medicare.

First thoughts: The race is on

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:55:35 GMT

This is Hillary Clinton's Senate Record and what she has gotten. In five years as the most influential Democrat in the Senate, Hillary has managed to get the following laws and resolutions enacted:

• Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site

• Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month

• Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor

• Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall

• Name courthouse after James L. Watson

• Name post office after John A. O'Shea

• Designate August 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day

• Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day

• Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death

• Congratulate the Syracuse University Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.

• Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship

• Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program

• Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda

• Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death

• Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty.

No wonder she is such a great candidate for president LOL......

First thoughts: The race is on

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:04:07 GMT

So on social security for example, she has maintained, it appears, that if we just get our fiscal house in order that we can solve the problem of Social Security.
Actually, Hillary said that returning to fiscal responsibility is the first step. Then she would appoint a bi-partisan commission to address Social Security's long term challenges that would consider a variety of options:

Yeah Yeah Yeah
But what is your position on Social Security Hillary?
Don't hide behind your words....
Have the guts to tell us HOW you are going to fix it.

What IS her stance on Social Security?.....

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:18:37 GMT

Bee-

You are a minor annoyance that I usually try to avoid, like those ads that pop-up before you can read an article on line. Your unsophisticated, almost child-like grammar and atrocious spelling touting bogus charges from disreputable sources is more a source of amusement than a cause for upset when I do read them. I'm just rattling your cage today for MY amusement.
You dwell, with Jerry, Sierra and several others in an irony-free zone that, while it can make my skin CRAWL on occasion, never approaches getting under it.
You guys are more like watching the ants in an anthill; It's disgusting and fascinating at the same time, and if you've been raised right, you don't step on it, and I try not to.
Today, I'm messin' with the hill a little, not stepping on it though, because I want to be able to go back to watching the antics of the little critters tomorrow...

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

Mark Thieme — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:24:20 GMT

Just passing through and thought I'd make an obvious comment to add to the rest of the no-brainer posts here:

Jerry, Sierra and van: proof that space-time is not phenomenologically rational and that intelligent life on earth is only a partially fulfilled ideal.

Rock on...

First thoughts: The race is on

MK,MO — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:50:46 GMT

hillary thinks that the citizenry at large is beneath her and in her never-ending arrogance thinks that no one is paying attention, or knows what she is, she is very soon going to receive a large dose of reality, this election is too important to ignore the facts, hillary offers no change just more of the same, ding dong the witch is dead

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:51:58 GMT

and that intelligent life on earth is only a partially fulfilled ideal.

Rock on...

Mark Thieme (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 3:24 PM)

Right back at you.
You really do have a lot of nerve, (or clinical multiple personality disorder) to EVER comment on anyone else, after your spectacular melt-down9S) of a few weeks past. I gave you the chance last week to, "man-up", but as you have failed yet again to do so. The only question in my mind was WHICH of you many farewells to reprise.
What happened to your lawyers?

Here is the craziest thing anyone has ever posted here. Thank Mark for the chuckle it's bound to induce.

Van

"Watcher 4 kind of gave us away, so we have decided to go ahead and come clean. Besides, the game here is getting a little out of control. We actually never intended to be the cause of anyone's meltdown.
Our fearless leader (not Mark Thieme) invented that name about a year ago with Samuel Clemens in mind. (Mark Twain/Mark Thieme... marking time)
It started as a group of five people, 2 women and 3 men who worked in the same campaign, but soon it spread to other campaigns as well. Once we had more than 50, but due to the increasing intensity of the campaign, we have lost some members.
Diverse group. Some young, some old, only 5 white males! Some are veterans, some are not. We have almost as many women as men and even 2 Republicans who claim they won't vote that way in 2008.
Our original intent was to choose some interesting blogs and have some good clean fun.
Soon, though, we found ourselves in the most horrendous and vile shouting matches most of us had actually witnessed up close.
Our idea had been to inject some of the reality of campaigning into the dialog. But we soon found out, that as Thomas Merton famously said, "Most humans can't stand much reality."
We found ourselves being punched out by weekend warriors, both political and military. Our veterans were incensed, our political operatives laughed at first, but then Mark Thieme suited up.
The Thieme character was flawed from the beginning. We keep a diary of faux pas which we were never called on. One time Thieme has kids, other times he is single, and so on. It was always according to who was blogging.
Last night there were howls of laughter as van reuter pompously announces that he can't find Mark Thieme on Google! Really?
The truth about Thieme is that he has become a man of many incarnations, as van has pointed out. We voted yesterday to kill him, (Mark Thieme, not van) and so we did. So van won't have Mark Thieme to kick around any more.
We regrouped and voted to bug van like he had harassed so many on First Read with his trash heap and hot air attacks.
One reason we stayed on is that some here know van from other times and places and do not like him. Apparently the guy knows how to make enemies. Also we have 3 designated smoke detectors and they all honed in on him. All in all, probably unfair.
That is what we meant when we hinted that we have an unfair advantage over whoever we go up against. We know them better than they know us. (Hey Google, right van?)
So we'll be watching, but at least using new names. Most likely we'll spend more time in other places for awhile until van cools down.
By the way, we were surprised that no one noticed we were multiple personalities except in name calling and bashing. There are hundreds of groups just like this all around the globe. We, being high-minded and morally pure, do want to offer sincere apologies to anyone who took us seriously. HP was catching on, but van was far behind... and that's where we will leave him for now.
It has been fun and we have met some great folks here. Thanks to all.

Peace,

The Mark Thiemes

Watchers 1-34 (Sent Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:25 PM)"

Absolutely NUTS!

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:52:51 GMT

Elizabeth, Mark and Zuma: I have been posting here several times a week for the past few months. Having read a lot of blogs of one stripe or another, I was never before interested in entering the conversation because of the tone or the general lack of thoughtful observation. The worst cases for me were the liberal blogs. When I found First Read, I read a whole range of opinion with people who seemed free from lockstep reactions. More often than not, after reading your posts and then reading through the discussions, I felt I had been better informed than anything I had encountered in the Mainline Media. First Read was not perfect, nor would it have been interesting if it were. And I am aware that it does not exist for my taste alone. Nonetheless, it was an intelligent blog with a few rules which kept conversations honest and clean. A few days ago, I was shocked at what I saw. There seemed to have been an invasion of aliens to the site. The tone had changed drastically for the worse and the quality of discourse had practically disappeared. The few beleaguered regulars left posting tried to have conversations around the loud newcomers who seemed all over the blog. One in particular. These folks seemed to have nothing special to say, but either were so egocentric as to believe that their wisdom had not been posted before better, or they were truly engaged in a "hijacking" as does occur on other sites from time to time, right around the time of some significant political or geopolitical event. Huma came onto the discussion board yesterday in a mild police action which was past due. I do not know what you can do about the deterioration of the quality and civility of your blog discussions. My own reaction was at first to ignore it. When I saw you were letting it go, possibly for the purpose of hyping the site, I joined in the brawl. It turned into a blog bar fight. I have never liked bullies, never liked loud-mouths and have found it almost impossible to stay in a room with fair-weather patriots, mouthy chickenhawks, who have no clue how foolish they appear to others, but nonetheless dominate the conversation with their "opinions." This is all to say that the blog has lost its appeal for me and at least one other free-thinking and intelligent friend. We are just weary of the harassment and the prevailing arrogance and ignorance (including some of our own reactionary posts) of the recent past few days. You are about to lose something of value (not just us in particular) and something many have appreciated: a forum for those with ideas, concerns, and expressions which may not fall directly into some ideological category. A blog for reasoned and even lighthearted exchange of opinion. A blog for free-thinkers, right left, and center. One final word before signing off for awhile: The predictable knee-jerk reaction (which has seldom been in such evidence here) to anyone who takes his ball and goes home is often about "sour grapes" or invites a childish diatribe about "free speech." We had free speech here. That was the joy of it. There is no law against bullying on the blogs and Americans still have the freedom of expression as a right. There is no law against passing gas either, but one doesn't have to stay in the room with those who pass it egregiously. There are other rooms. This was a good one. I hope you'll regain some control. My one regret is that I got drawn into some rather tacky exchanges with people who seemed gleeful in trashing the site. Cheers to all!
Mark Thieme (Sent Friday, January 12, 2007 11:50 AM)

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:54:09 GMT

Yes, there is a crazy man here mad it is van reuter; a desperate and dangerous person, obviously. This is slander (at least), pure and simple.

I have no idea where these posts came from, but I am still, and always have been the original Mark Thieme. As long as First Read allows this kind of slime, I have no time for the insanity.

WOW!!!!

Sorry for you who remain.
Adios.
Mark Thieme (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:25 AM)

It's like your, "Greatest Hits"!

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:57:28 GMT

Here are a couple of Mark's other personalities coming to his defense;

I know mark Thieme and he is very upset. he thinks van has stolen his email and used it illegally. Whatever, van is dangerous to everyone on this board.
Sunyata (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 11:31 AM)

If van made up all this stuff, he deserves jail time! It is character assassination, misrepresentation and slander. Not to mention felony theft. I will represent you, pro bono, if I am licensed in your state Mark.
Attorney from Iowa, no email address (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:01 PM)

I await the onslaught of Mark's imaginary barrister.

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

Bee — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:00:19 GMT

Vanreuter, NY NY,

Wow! Now I know what Hillary Clinton presidency will look like if they have folks like you working as a staff.

The last time I checked you're the chief architect that likes pushing polls on us when they don't really make any sense. You are good at perverting facts and using them in Clinton's favor. Guess what? People are not buying that tactics anymore.

Hillary Clinton even went ahead to create a phony website regarding “Fact Check”. The last time I checked the website, it was full of Hillary’s spin rather than facts. Now, tell me who is disingenuous? Is it Clinton that double talk on big issues or folks like me that just can’t stand another politician that is not straight forward?

I’ll stop trashing Hillary the day she starts being honest with the challenges facing the nation – and the day she starts offering specificity on big issues. She called us to start the conversation in January and yet, the conversation hasn’t presented any solid result on social security, and foreign policy.

Why should I give a damn about her conversation when all I hear is platitude?

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:09:55 GMT

More scintillating political commentary from Mark, or at least one of him anyway...

Perhaps Van's vitriol needs closer monitoring.

In a word, he has ruined the board.

Mark Thieme (Sent Monday, October 08, 2007 1:23 PM)

Omigod! Van has incarcerated that loonie Mark Thieme again. Don't know what van sees in him, but he does seem to enjoy his company.
I can see now it will be another terrible weekend, what with all the motor sounds and van yelling.
I do resent Thieme's disparagement of our humble home. First, it is not a Buick Special, they didn't make one in 1958. It is a '27 Whippet Model 96 Coach and only the hood and top are rusted out. Vroom!
And about chicken poop. The only chicken poop I saw outside was the stuff Thieme tracked out there from the kitchen. We have house chickens that are very well trained.
He made fun of our predilection for KFC, but where else can you get a big bucket of fried chicken with slaw and mashed potatoes for $5.95? Van loves his chicken! I didn't notice Thieme passing up the gizzard van tossed him.

All I can say is that I wish van would bring someone home for the weekend who could appreciate our special brand of urban hospitality. Someone like Jerry, for instance.

Well, as Mark Thieme always says,

It could be worse.

Mrs. van (Sent Friday, October 19, 2007 5:51 PM)

I WOULD mock you, but You mock yourself so much better than I ever could.

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:12:26 GMT

The Jackson 5's classic, "Never can Say Good-bye", comes to mind...

"As a radical supporter of the First Amendment, I have opposed censoring even the most provocative and distasteful materials.
I do not support anything Rush Limbaugh has ever said, and my own opinion of the man as a human being is quite low. No, he should neither be censored by the government nor the media. But anyone who listens to him for "facts" does has not earned and do not deserve the rights and privileges of American citizenship.

This vanreuter character comes blasting on this board with his biased facts as if he were the Word come down. Like Limbaugh, he cries when his judgment or intelligence is questioned, bleats and blares his acid in whatever direction he pleases. Like Limbaugh, he is wind tunnel.

If that is what people want to read on a political blog on Monday morning...well, I think you know my opinion.

Maybe someday vanreuter will have his own radio show where he gets to make fun of others and scream foul at every challenge.

Until then, I'll be waiting, listening, but no longer reading First Read, what was once one of the best political blogs online.

Best wishes to all who linger here.

Listen to the silence of all those who have left.

Click.
Mark Thieme (Sent Monday, October 08, 2007 2:01 PM)

Imagine having to deal with this loon on a daily basis...

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

lyn, MD — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:16:50 GMT

First thoughts: The race is on

Mark Thieme — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:17:26 GMT

Most intelligent posters here know that van himself devised that famous "Mark Thieme" post.

In fact, it is a matter of record that van used the Thieme blog name more than once to discredit someone who does get under his skin.

Van notes today that he enjoys stirring the pot:

"You guys are more like watching the ants in an anthill; It's disgusting and fascinating at the same time, and if you've been raised right, you don't step on it, and I try not to.
Today, I'm messin' with the hill a little, not stepping on it though, because I want to be able to go back to watching the antics of the little critters tomorrow... "

For a guy with a god complex he sure throws around the technical terms for for mental illness ("NUTS!").

For a guy who doesn't let the ants get under his skin, he sure scrambles for the ant bait... every time, on time.

Rock on, O Ant-King!

First thoughts: The race is on

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:52:40 GMT

that is why it is important to put your real self out there, I applaud all who are unafarid to post their names and towns, we must suspect people who live behind pretend names and war names, Stalin was not the mans real name, it was made up. If you can't be who you are then you are really no one.

First thoughts: The race is on

MK,MO — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:53:40 GMT

hillary's new slogan should be 'stay the course'

First thoughts: The race is on

Kristian O — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:56:56 GMT

Yo Van, I will vote for Hillary in the general election despite the fact that I want Dodd, Edwards, or Obama to get the nomination. I might hold my nose while I'm doing it, but I'll do it nonetheless.

The question is will you support the Dem nominee if it isn't Hillary?

Peace, Kristian O

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:07:40 GMT

lyn, MD (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 4:16 PM)

I'm just having a little fun today.

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

Mark Thieme — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:24:22 GMT

John Alexander,
Agreed that it would be better that we all present ourselves here with our real name and perhaps even real address.
This assumes a civility that no longer exists in our culture and a privacy that no longer exists in the cybersphere.

While MSNBC provides anonymity, it is no great feat for a hacker to crack the code and get to an IP address which opens the world for the identity trade.

Best to make it a little harder for the criminals on and off this board.

I have had my blog ID stolen and used to discredit me by a person with emotional issues. I have known others who have had their entire identity stolen from such a blog as First Read.

Sad, but true.

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:41:24 GMT

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 4:52 PM)

I agree and would be happy to do the same if it was required. I emailed MSNBC several times about some type of log-in that protected screen names or prevented the potential hijacking of same. I think that having your REAL name and a reply address would do wonders for common courtesy on blogs like this.

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

vanreuter, NY NY — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:53:11 GMT

The question is will you support the Dem nominee if it isn't Hillary?

Peace, Kristian O

Kristian O (Sent Monday, November 12, 2007 4:56 PM)

I am a democrat and will vote for my party's candidate as I have stated many times in the past.

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

Mark Thieme — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:56:51 GMT

The only ant on the hill who got stirred up was the Ant-King himself.

He's just having fun folks!

It is fun for others as well to see the devious manipulator manipulated, coming to heel like a half-trained puppy.

(just so's you know, I'm just having some fun, at your expense... or as you have said here numerous times, I'm mocking you.)

First thoughts: The race is on

Mark — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:24:19 GMT

A bunch of people that write for various websites and go on Hardball, CNN, etc have been alligning with Hillary and taking hits for her. They think she'll win. They want a jobs within her administration. As the tides are turning, it will be interesting how this will unfold. I love when Matthews calls out these mouthpieces. Down with Hillary INC. End nepotism.

First thoughts: The race is on

Nancy Tx — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:24:19 GMT

Man First Read is getting dirtier now. All I see is Bee and Sierra mouthing negativity and trash talking. Every time I come here to read some discussion, I see vitrolic remarks san any logical judgement from these two.

Does First Read really represent loony left wing nuts? In the name of freedom of speech, let this get posted, or otherwise you will justify my thoughts.

First thoughts: The race is on

Lek — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:45:26 GMT

I agree and would be happy to do the same if it was required. I emailed MSNBC several times about some type of log-in that protected screen names or prevented the potential hijacking of same. I think that having your REAL name and a reply address would do wonders for common courtesy on blogs like this.

Van
---------------------------------------------------

By the way, i support the idea 100% provided MSNBC secure my identity from Clinton's machine. I don't want to drop dead like the one that came before me.

First thoughts: The race is on

CK Keller, Houston Tx — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:02:17 GMT

Hillary's new slogan? "Questions? I don't take questions. Unless I told you what to ask."

First thoughts: The race is on

Adepts of the Ant-King — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:21:15 GMT

I'm just rattling your cage today for MY amusement.
You dwell, with Jerry, Sierra and several others in an irony-free zone that, while it can make my skin CRAWL on occasion, never approaches getting under it.
You guys are more like watching the ants in an anthill; It's disgusting and fascinating at the same time, and if you've been raised right, you don't step on it, and I try not to.
Today, I'm messin' with the hill a little, not stepping on it though, because I want to be able to go back to watching the antics of the little critters tomorrow...

Van

First thoughts: The race is on

H P Boston — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:43:27 GMT

Be careful Van these ants are of the killer species from Africa. They attack and devour anything in there path. Very aggressive and venomous. Best to avoid at all costs. Give them a wide berth and be on your way, ou can outrun them.