Democrats’ immigration problem

Doug, San Diego — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:23:35 GMT

This is the one issue that could kill the dems chances in '08. You can always count on the republicans to take a divisive issue involving hatred of a whole class of people and capitalize on it. It's really all they have, they can't campaign on positive change, when has that ever happened on their watch?

Democrats’ immigration problem

Dot, Illinois — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:24:44 GMT

They say timing is everything. Isn't there another debate coming up soon?

Democrats’ immigration problem

John Neiman, Boca Raton, FL — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:32:46 GMT

The Democrats are also on the wring side of the English as the official language issue.

Americans are tired of pressing one for English, or seeing signs in the stores in spanish.
Every other immigrant that came here learned English.
The democrats need to get on the same side as the voters and make English the official language of our country.

Democrats’ immigration problem

nuanced — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:33:23 GMT

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the States administer driver's licenses, so it is pointless to ask a presidential candidate what they think about it. What next, asking them what they think about state flags -- oh wait they did that.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Stu, Saginaw, MI — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:39:58 GMT

Dear First Read;

This is probably the most dumb and idiotic blurb you've ever put out.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Cassy Krennel, San Diego CA — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:40:00 GMT

"Positive change"? Can you explain what is positive about tens of millions of illegals coming across our borders? Very interested in hearing your answer.

Democrats’ immigration problem

jerry/corpus christi texas — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:40:16 GMT

Hillary:

Please read the above......
There is your answer......
See how easy it was?......

I keep forgetting, it is the Clinton News Network that is doing the next debate. So I guess she will get a breather and the hard questions will have to wait.

I wonder which person has the planted question.....

Democrats’ immigration problem

karlos — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:41:14 GMT

we are not going to halt the flood of illegal immigration or secure our borders with legislation or a fence. we had a war on drugs and tried to secure our borders, they dug tunnels you could walk thru, hows that working for us? also the proposed bill included credits for job skills and education, is that the current illegals we were thinking of legitimizing, i think not. those were mostly manual labor jobs they currently occupy that supposedly we don't want. the immigration bill supports the insourcing of the previously outsourcing of us jobs with the importing of skilled &educated immigrants for jobs our unemployed and grads want' just less money and benefits for corperations to pay.the manual jobs will still be there and the illegals will continue to get in. we demos are supporting this for political leverage with latino vote in ca. & fla. remember 2000? stop the "insourcing of our outsourcing" and get this bill killed and stop wasting money on the fence.

Democrats’ immigration problem

MK,MO — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:41:39 GMT

how can the republicans campaign on stopping illegal aliens, they want them here for the slave labor they provide, what have they actually done to curb people from walking across the border for the years they have been in power, nothing.

Democrats’ immigration problem

William in Houston — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:43:39 GMT

In every State that I have lived, a permanent address, social security number, finger pints and proof of insurance have been a requirement to get a driver's license. Maybe this isn't such a bad idea.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:48:35 GMT

Democrats’ immigration problem

jerry/corpus christi texas — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:52:44 GMT

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the States administer driver's licenses, so it is pointless to ask a presidential candidate what they think about it.

Nuanced:

Bet if she had realized that in Philadelphia, we would not be having this debate today.

By the way, Rush played Hillary's planted question tape from 1999, so yes just like the waitress tipping scandal, she has a problem when it comes to planted questions.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Ramu Isagod, Fairfax City, Virginia — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:53:09 GMT

Your analysis is half-assed. If it didn't work in Virginia, this issue probably won't work nationally, as long as we're still in Iraq. It'll only damage the GOP in the long-term.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Stu, Saginaw, MI — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:02:09 GMT

Dear First Read;

RE: My last:

I said that your blurb was dumb and idiotic, but didn't say why.

First, Gov. Spitzer's idea comprised 3 aspects, thus one could be for all 3, against all 3, for one and against 2, or for 2 and against one. Even further, drivers' licenses are state perogatives not federal, so what do federal legislators have to do with them?

Finally, if state license regulators know that applicants are "illegals", don't they have the duty and responsiblity to report those persons to the INS?

To my mind, no candidate for federal office should be expected to answer to "state" activities.

x

Democrats’ immigration problem

Andi in DC — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:02:26 GMT

I have to agree, the focus on the driver's liscence issue by the political press misses the issue entirely. The GOP is being dragged to an unelectable position by a minority of their base and this is a huge opportunity for Dems.

Benefits for illegal immigrants is a hands down loser and keeping that Russert frame is a problem. But you are missing the forrest. Most Americans support a plan that combines enforcement with a path to legality for currently illegal immigrants. If Dems are brave (don't laugh) and articulate a position that puts legality paramount, they blow away the GOP competition on this issue. Look at the 2006 and 2007 results from Arizona to Virginia and everywhere else. FIRST READ should know better or at least be more complete in reporting.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Adam, CA — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:06:18 GMT

Drivers licenses poll horribly because it isn't a solution it is a policy that sweeps the issue under the rug. It say's we are going to continue to ignore the issue. Drivers licenses aren't immigration policy they are band aid's.

Now hispanics do have problems they need to address in framing their debate.

First and foremost La Raza needs to be renamed to something non-racist. Enough people speak spanish to be offended by an equality group calling itself "the race". It hinders their cause by implying they are special.

Candidates need to have the guts to stand for a federal solution, not band-aid state solutions. Where people differ is on how many should legally be here and for what purpose. Drivers licenses say's we are going to let illegals still come because we aren't going toa ddress such a politically charged issue and the people want them to address it.

Democrats’ immigration problem

VL North Carolina — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:06:49 GMT

You know some people let their prejudices and ignorance sway themselves to think that this is a problem. Some in the Republican party use code to make this more of a racial issue than a policy issue. Look, on merit Gov. Eliot Spitzer bill makes sense because WE HAVE 12-20 Million Illegal Immigrants in this country that are UNDOCUMENTED. The majority of the illegals are from Latin American countries <<<which makes this smells of racism. The congress could not pass the Immigration Reform bill because the bill is for "amnesty". What part of that bill was "amnesty"? The Illegals would have to pay fines and the back taxes. Amnesty means "with out penalty".

Going back to my point, if they don't have a licence, then they don't have insurance. So when you get into a wreck with one and you have your rates go up because of this pety argument just think who Really wins...

Democrats’ immigration problem

Ellis B. Kingman, Az. — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:08:35 GMT

I agree Doug, the repubs will beat dems brains out over illegal immigration. The dems do not accept the overwhelming sentiment against consessions to illegal aliens. Not only do illegal immigrants drive illegally they are guilty of smuggling, tax evasion and the passing of forged legal documents, felonies that any American citizen would be prosecuted for. Wake up dems, if we are not willing to prosecute illegal aliens as we do common American citizens, why do we make such laws? Only enforcing employer sanctions will do the job, if there are no means of survival, they will not come or stay.

Democrats’ immigration problem

jerry/corpus christi texas — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:15:13 GMT

This is from the Hill.com
Very scary telephone call.....

The object of the call, and a follow-up breakfast Thursday morning with campaign chairman and former chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) Terry McAuliffe, was apparently to stop whatever bleeding the senator might have sustained during a debate in which Clinton wore a bull’s-eye on her back throughout the evening.

Penn and Mantz said “a new phase” in the campaign had begun with about 65 days to go before the Iowa caucuses. They expect Obama and Edwards to go “negative on TV, and we’re going to need the resources to fight that front.”

While one supporter voiced his concern that the Clinton campaign is not devoting enough money and staff to Iowa, lagging behind Obama, most supporters who commented on the call expressed their displeasure with what they saw as the moderators’ focus on Clinton.

One caller from Oklahoma City said that “the questions … were designed to incite a brawl,” and that Russert’s and Brian Williams’s moderating was “an abdication of journalistic responsibility.”

Another said Russert “should be shot,” before quickly adding that she shouldn’t say that on a conference call.

Penn and Mantz said they were hearing a lot of the same sentiment from other supporters, but they do not plan to engage the media or the debate’s moderators.

Boy, there are some seriously ticked people on Hillary's team........
Also one needs to be careful about what one says in a telephone call with the media listening in.......

Democrats’ immigration problem

Shadow, Hamden, CT — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:17:21 GMT

Democrats’ immigration problem

John Doe, The Peanut Gallery — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:22:15 GMT

Ha! Yeah, because using the immigration card worked so incredibly well for the GOP in the special elections. If they want to continue to alienate hispanic voters by insisting that border security along the Mexico border is related to terrorism rather than their inate fear of brown people that's fine. But most Americans know that the 9/11 hijackers crossed into the US at the Canadian border and, as we all know, Republicans are terrible at everything anyway. Sorry First Read team, this is a point where the conventional wisdom on this issue is just wrong. Just wait and see...

Democrats’ immigration problem

Doug, San Diego — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:37:00 GMT

Cassy, SD wrote "Positive change? Can you explain what is positive about tens of millions of illegals coming across our borders? Very interested in hearing your answer.

I wasn't describing illegal immigration as positive, I was describing the typical repbulican style of campaigning as hate-based and fear-based. They find a group of people, convince you that those people are to blame for all our problems, then tell you how they are going to save you from those people. None of this is based in fact, and the promised safety is bogus as well, but you people buy their crap every time. It's no wonder that your reading comprehension skills are as flawed as your perception.

Democrats’ immigration problem

jerry/corpus christi texas — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:40:25 GMT

One caller from Oklahoma City said that “the questions … were designed to incite a brawl,” and that Russert’s and Brian Williams’s moderating was “an abdication of journalistic responsibility.”

Another said Russert “should be shot,” before quickly adding that she shouldn’t say that on a conference call.

Penn and Mantz said they were hearing a lot of the same sentiment from other supporters, but they do not plan to engage the media or the debate’s moderators.

My question is......

What sentiment are they hearing?......

The questions or Tim Russert being shot?

Democrats’ immigration problem

win brown — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:40:26 GMT

" You can always count on the republicans to take a divisive issue involving hatred of a whole class of people and capitalize on it"

It isn't hatred of a whole class of people, it is serious anger towards what those people did to be here, as well as what happens when excessive population growth occurs, espeically given the different cultures of the people.

Its divisive of the Dems to call anyone against illegal immigration the nasty terms they use to rather then to discuss the issue too.

My views have been considered liberal in the past, but the one thing I have noticed, 2006 brought a visable change in the Republican party in that they are moving towards a more centrist view, the Democrat party seems stuck with not even a liberal view, but a progressive liberal view. I applaud the diversity of the centrist view, rather then the close minded extremes. I do not appreciate the idea of either extreme controlling us or our government.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Ernie — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:48:38 GMT

The issue with illegal immigration will not be solved by easing laws to accommodate the problem. We must enforce the laws we already have, not allow amnesty and end birthright citizenship. That will be a great start to solving the problem. Ron Paul vows to make this his policy.

The Ron Paul Revolution
http://www.prezronpaul.com

Democrats’ immigration problem

Jane Urbandale IA — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:51:53 GMT

"Interesting. MSNBC seems to be advocating that candidates base their positions on what the polls say, not on what they actually believe. Hm. I thought that is what the candidates were NOT supposed to do?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa"

Candidates should base their positions on what is right, wrong, workable, pragmatic, can be accomplished, etc., not based upon what polls well. However, if you believe Hillary Clinton is not polling in order to determine the position she should take you are not living in reality. Last night I was polled, and it was clear from the questions Clinton is trying to poll where she is vulnerable, and also trying to gauge what Iowans think about drivers licenses to "undocumented workers" among other issue.

Given President Clinton polled almost every issue, and HRC has repeatedly polled issues I think it's reasonable for MSNBC to state the public isn't with HRC on this issue.

Frankly I think the public is wrong on the license issue, but I do think it's funny that the one time she goes out on a limb and answers a controversial question she hangs herself.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:00:38 GMT

What's the big deal about English Only? If we're going to have an Official Lanquage that everybody has to learn, why not a language with some History. Everybody knows that American is about as far removed from what the Brits speak, as English is from Anglo/Saxon. Fr'instance: "Let's Sashay over to the Barbecue and Fricasse some Salsa Burgers, an'then Fondue on the Patio." What fardels bear? My vote for the Official American Language is 'Etruscan'.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Mike PAV — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:08:58 GMT

Doug, San Diego "You can always count on the republicans to take a divisive issue involving hatred of a whole class of people and capitalize on it." Doug I'm sure you would agree with a poll that stated 70% of Americans disagree with the war in Iraq. Well it seems even more Americans have a problem with ILLEGAL IMMAGRATION. This is not a Republican tactic you fool this is the voice of the American people. Please get your head out of the Democratic talking points a&* and understand this for what it is! People are more than welcome to come to America for a better life (interesting that the Dems always talk about how bad we are as a nation how bad it is here and how bad Aamericans are yet tens of millions risk everything just to try to get here here)but they need to do it the right way! My grandfather and millions of other American imagrants did the right thing that's all we ask be accountable pay your taxes obey the law!

Democrats’ immigration problem

U2 — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:10:46 GMT

win brown

you give yourself away by calling them the "democrat" party !!!

What an idiot !!

Democrats’ immigration problem

jerry/corpus christi texas — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:14:08 GMT

Just a night with friends

Don't bet on huge pyrotechnics between Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama.

The calendar and the nature of their campaigns argues against jugular politics. It is too early in the season to go negative now. There is plenty of time for that before the January Iowa caucuses.

Then, too, Clinton is the front-runner, and it's an axiom of politics that front-runners need to be above the fray lest they get muddied up.

And while you might expect Obama to throw a punch, this is a guy who has promised a different kind of campaign without the usual "politics of destruction."

Besides with President Bush to kick around, they don't need to go at each other.

This was advertised on CNN.com.........
They are predicting a quiet night among friends......

I guess it also depends on who the Clinton's managed to get to ask the questions.......

Democrats’ immigration problem

Dave, Tn — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:20:10 GMT

I'll gladly trade any hard working honest Hispanic family for a worthless whining lying race baiting white liberal family from the north east.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Houston — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:21:10 GMT

Sure, illegal immigration is a problem, but illegal immigration has very little direct effect on most Americans in comparison to the crisis in medical insurance coverage, the economic meltdown, including the impact of the Iraq war, and Bush's failure in Afghanistan and Pakistan, which are the REAL central front in the war against Islamic extremists.

Face it: the only reasons that illegal immigration is such a dominant issue is xenophobia in general and anti-Mexican racism in partiular.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Dot, Illinois — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:25:19 GMT

"Finally, if state license regulators know that applicants are "illegals", don't they have the duty and responsiblity to report those persons to the INS?"
----------------------------------------------------

See, I wondered this too. Also wondered how the license office knows these are illegals--do they(the illegals) ask for a license without giving an address, or are they required to show proof that they are in US legally before they can get license, etc. I am having a difficult time imagining anyone being willing to risk the consequences of admitting they are here illegally. I have a feeling I am being dense, but I don't understand how this works.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Houston — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:25:27 GMT

WIn Brown [[My views have been considered liberal in the past, but the one thing I have noticed, 2006 brought a visable change in the Republican party in that they are moving towards a more centrist view,]]

So, you think the fact that Giuliani hired Norman Podhoretz, a neo-con crazy who's itching to bomb Iran indicates a move toward more centrist views? Or that the pub candidates all back the use of torture in the so-called "war on terror" indicates centrist views?

Democrats’ immigration problem

Sierra, SF — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:35:10 GMT

Easy answer on immigration:

TELL THE TRUTH !!

Figure a reasonable position
Then, tell the truth
Tell America what your position is
Don't try to have it both ways
Don't 'finagle' the issue

It's a complex issue...
But, 'honesty is the best policy'

People will see through Hillary and McCain

Democrats’ immigration problem

pat huntington ny — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:41:20 GMT

I am a Hillary supporter and despite the purely state issue at hand, I want a direct explicit answer from her on this. It's very simple. Either you are for it for practicaly reasons [it will put all those illegals in a data base for the INS to read and maybe do their job and deport those people], or you are against it for policy reasons [driving is a privilege illegal aliens are not entitled to because they are criminals]. The homeland security argument is misplaced. The new drivers licences obtained without social security numbers or proof of citizenship, will say just that, by stating not valid for ID. I also supported Spitzer and voted for him. I think he's an idiot for raising this.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Angelo Mancuso, Rochester NY — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:46:15 GMT

Politicians and Americans for that matter should take a look at "American Harvest." Its a non-partisan feature length documentary about immigration as it relates to agriculture. It presents the facts as they are without political bias.

Every farmer I have spoken to wants to secure our borders. And they also want a workable solution to LEGAL immigration.

Americans have to understand that we all need to appreciate and respect those people who grow and harvest our crops.

The men and women that put food on our kitchen tables deserve no less.

http://www.americanharvestmovie.com

American Harvest Synopsis

Anti-immigration sentiment sweeps across America. A journey from Florida to New York, including a trip to the Mexican border, reveals the lives and issues of legal and illegal migrants and farmers working toward a better life. Is the immigration system in America flawed? Immigrants are dying to feed America.

American farmers and agriculture rely on immigrants to do jobs that Americans won't do or feel that are simply beneath them. Some only see the problems in the news from the perspective of those extreme points of view of the left and the right side of our political system.

Discrimination of immigrants has existed in the United States since the English persecuted the Irish. It was once generally considered that if you were Greek or Southern Italian you were not white.

American Harvest points out the inconsistencies of the current policy on immigration. See the changing face of immigrant America as it relates to Agriculture.

Follow legal and illegal farm workers and the farmers caught in the middle of a flawed immigration policy.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Hillaryhater — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:57:14 GMT

Hillary Clinton Warns Wolf Blitzer, don't attack me and pull a "Russert", Clinton now in threatening mode, be safe everyone

Democrats’ immigration problem

Bruce, Annandale, VA — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:57:56 GMT

Anytime I see the words "undocumented workers" I know the person who wrote the piece is in full support of an open border. Anytime I see the words illegal aliens I know they support strong border security. Those are the only words I need to understand their point of view.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Pat Walter, Oyster Bay, NY — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:13:23 GMT

The dirty little secret for Spitzer's illegal driver's license proposal is all about getting those people to the voting booth. As soon as they sign up for the license I understand they get a "motor voter" card and all they have to do is mark an x where it says US citizen and presto they can vote (for the Democrat)of course.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Sierra, SF — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:16:40 GMT

From First Read:
an even BIGGER PROBLEM.....

'...The Politico's Roger Simon writes on the question-planting story, and he notes that the real distrust this raises is that of the campaign staff for the candidate. "Because when staffers plant questions, it means they don't trust the candidate to handle herself in public. They don't think she can answer real questions from real people....'

Think about THAT !!
Hillary's campaign is AFRAID of HILLARY ANSWERING UN-PLANTED QUESTIONS !!

It's HARD to keep those lies straight....
Will anyone ask Hillary about IDs for illegal aliens ?
I'm sure she's been coached on how to answer the question.

But, if she has to think about a different question.....
Will the CNN moderator demand an honest answer ?
Will CNN let Hillary spin with 'non-answers' to their questions ?
What about the other candidates ?
Will they keep up the heat on Hillary ?

If so, she'll melt down !!
(I'm melting, I'm MELTING !!)

This is the critical debate
This is the last chance to stop Hillary

How bad do you want it John Edwards ?
How bad do you want it Barack Obama ?

Bill Richardson, are you still fishing for the VP selection ?
How about you, Chris Dodd ?

Game on

Democrats’ immigration problem

sal — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:22:42 GMT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IrE6FMpai8

Democrats’ immigration problem

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:29:35 GMT

Jane: Did I say anything at all about Hillary Clinton in my post? Let me answer that - NO. I will thank you to refrain from making insulting assumptions on me based on comments that I never even made.

My point, because you clearly need me to spell it out for you, is that there is all this emphasis on how candidates should follow their beliefs and not the polls, and there is MSNBC saying that the candidates need to pay attention to this item in the polls. THAT was my point. Not about what Hillary is/was doing, or what any other candidate is/was doing.

It's not ALL about Hillary, you know.

Democrats’ immigration problem

nuanced — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:41:43 GMT

My vote for the Official American Language is 'Etruscan'.
Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:00 PM)

-- we already have Esperanto as the world wide universal language, but I could be convinced to go with Pig Latin. On the other hand, traditionally most Americans could neither read nor write so maybe we should go with pictograms. :)

Democrats’ immigration problem

Lisa, Fort Worth TX — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:44:51 GMT

I see the same thing happening with illegal immigration that is happening with the Iraq occupation: since 70% of citizens are against it, the govt. will do all it can to ensure that we keep supporting it.

Democrats’ immigration problem

nuanced — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:48:34 GMT

I'll gladly trade any hard working honest Hispanic family for a worthless whining lying race baiting white liberal family from the north east. - Dave, Tn

-- did you mean vice versa? What would you trade for a worthless whining lying race baiting white supremist conservative family from (fill in the blank)?

Democrats’ immigration problem

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:11:10 GMT

This is the week du jour story, it is also the piece Gloria Borger wrote in todays US News and World Report, It looks like journalistic lemmings are following each other on the story of the week. The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, sees the repub party in tranistion, it may go centrist but it also may break apart into smaller parties.
Illegal immigration is a problem but it will take much more than the candidates spouting off about it, it will take government and business and other istitutions to make a concerted effort to fix it. fences and xenophobic one liners will only get votes but little headway.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Tess, California — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:27:12 GMT

Isn't being an illegal a crime? That is what I was taught. Why in the H E L L would you give someone who is committing a crime a Driver's License? Is someone in New York helping to move the North American Union forward, sure looks like it to me.

Democrats’ immigration problem

LS, Everett, WA — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:38:15 GMT

It seems logical that instead of trying to build physical barriers to keep illegal immigrants out, it would be more effective to simply eliminate the incentives for coming here illegally. Since millions of people are taking big risks to come here, it is obvious that there are strong incentives. Higher wages, healthcare, birthright citizenship for their children born here, no taxes, etc.

Of course, some of those things are easier to get rid of than others, but the taxpayers of this country should be the ones realizing the benefits, not millions of undocumented illegals. The gov't could easily repeal birthright citizenship, and make it automatic ONLY if both parents are here legally.

With health care and driver's licenses and all of the other priveleges - require proof of citizenship or legal visitor status to get them. Obviously I don't think an illegal who goes to a hospital should be allowed to just bleed to death on the floor, but they can be treated - and deported.

I am a bit offended by those here who say people against a path for citizenship are racists. Sure, maybe some people are, but that is a broad statement to make about people you don't know. It isn't an issue of racism, it is an issue of fairness - the freedoms this country was built upon. Work hard, obey the law, live the American dream in safety and without persecution. The vision was not for hardworking citizens to pay for millions of illegal immigrants.

Other than birthright citizenship the law doesn't have to change a lot - it simply needs to be enforced. The laws exist, but politicians are slow to encourage enforcement of them for fear of being labeled racists or alienating a potential voter pool.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Lee Holmes — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:40:07 GMT

Houston: To put plainly,you are full of it. Indeed,the healthcare and infrastructure crisis IS being driven by illegal immigration to a large degree.[Admitted to here by the PEW[nonpartisan,liberal leaning,if anything],Charitable Trusts findings on Hispanics in America today. Most without health insurance are illegals or their progeny.[which critics hook onto the nations total of those without insurance, magically turning illegal aliens into ''American citizens'']. Most in state jails and prisons are illegals or their progeny,as is the moving force behind Americas rise in drug and violent crimes through the massive participation of young Hispanics in gangs,estimated to be in the hundreds of thousands,perhaps millions in just the West alone through the Mexican Mafias largest gang structures in the Sureno[13] and Norteno[14]criminal gangs.
The idea that the need to get hold of these problems ,is based in ''racism''and ''xenophobia''is crap swill trotted out by a pack of know-nothings that goes too often unchallenged. Here,on these boards,it will.
We recall our western upbringings in safe, multi-racial neighborhoods where we made lifelong friends of residents with the surnames of Gonzales,Reynosa,Lopez,and Garcia. We worked with coworkers with the first names of Antonio,Jesus,Lupe,and Juan. We entered into the military alongside of platoon and squad members and shipmates with ''Hermasillo'',and ''Cortez''and ''Villagarosa''
stitched above their uniform pockets. Many of us married,creating blended families of Anglo-Hispanic cultures.Adopting cross-trading cultures,traditions,clothing and music,names,even architecture and fashion.
We were thus a portion of the actual fabric of the West long before its encroachment by violent gangs,and the most unbridled movement of peoples on the planet today,done without any thought to the consequence of such movements. Easy for easterners to point fingers,usually,indeed,exclusively,liberals and the left,who are not seeing the effects wrought by illegal immigration on the first western,now increasingly, American interior states.Whole cities are falling into disrepair. Gangs hold sway over large portions like feudal lords,exacting a terrible price for their stewardship[observed in last weeks NEWSWEEK Magazine on demonstrable ethnic cleansing in LA by latino gangs trying to force out African Americans whose roots in these neighborhoods go back over a century].The increase of heavily armed gangs elicits a response on the portion of the nations state police systems,which are themselves becoming more militarized as a result.
Their effects on the environment are catastrophic,elicting internecine warfare between Americas most prominant environmental organizations,torn between standing against illegal immigration or silently condoning it. Illegals are in the process of utterly destroying national park systems such as Big Bend in Texas,Organ Pipe in Arizona[site of irreplacable,very rare fauna and flora which is being ripped apart by the hundreds of square miles],and even Yosemite,where shooting crimes between rival gang members and grafitti are forcing administrators to consider cutting the number of visitors to the park system,turning park rangers into SWAT teams.
Enough is enough. No use saying that ''a fence will not work''due to the fact that we haven't even tried it yet. No use ignoring the epidemic of identity theft,a massive business among the illegals,which is costing billions every year in lost wages and lost work hours,nor is there any in the non-adressing of business'responsibility in this mess,which it is to Congress to address. This ''sanctuary''city nonsense must stop. Any who do not comply and get with the program get their federal transportation monies cut off at the knees. None of this is based in phony accuasations of ''racism'' or ''xenophobia''. It is rather,in seeing that ALL Americans of whatever creed,religion ,sex or race live,work and play[and vote], in the safer,cleaner confines of a nation that they deserve.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:50:40 GMT

A capable leader can communicate difficult issues to the public. A lot of times, the polls reflect what people don't understand and what they fear.

Let me state a few axioms:
1)No ands ifs or buts, the borders must be tightened and immigration must be conducted with consistant and legal principles. We need more border patrol and we need effective policy in returning 'new' illegals back to their homeland with penalties that will be applied to their future plans for immigration. Tight borders are important for security (terrorists can easy penetrate a porous border) and in order to protect our labor market.

2) Laws against employers who hire undocumented workers should carry stiff penalties and these laws must be strongly enforced. If a job is not available the illegals will simply not come. A proposal has been made to set up a federal data bank as a clearing house for employers to check the legality of prospective employees and this will take the onus off of the employer. American consumers must be aware that such tough restrictions will raise food and housing costs by about 30%. Personally, I am prepared to pay this price in order to secure our borders - make us safer, protect our labor force and prevent the development of a slave labor class.

Now for my opinion:

Modified drivers licenses should be provided as non-breeder documents. They will never be able to be used to legitamize the undocumented worker. They will not be able to be used for ID to board planes. They will not provide sufficient ID for illegals to vote. They will give us a mechanism by which we can keep track of these people. Having these licenses will protect Americans and those here legally from the consequences of uninsured drivers and require that the illegal alien driver receive adequate training before receiving the license.

Look, they drive anyway, whether you grant them the priveledge or not, and this is a way to keep a handle on a dangerous situation. Granting these modified licenses will also help in discouraging illegals from coming to this country as having one of these licenses will be a way that employers will be aware of their status (preventing their employment).

Shipping people back (12 million of them) is immoral and untenable. Families will be split and we will become entangled in an expensive (Iraq-like) hornets' nest). Encouraging illegals to return to their native lands (by enforcing existing laws) in order for them to legally apply for immigration, is both moral and manageable. These 'non-breeder document' driver's licenses seem like common sense and as said, they provide a way to get a handle on a seemingly insolvable problem.

Once again it's always easy to identify a problem but hysterical, knee-jerk reactions are not only illogical but unworkable. Naturally, the fear mongers will capitalize on a problem like this working up everyone's xenophobia to the max.

Ironically, this proposal by Governor Spitzer should not be looked at as a 'problem' for the Democrats. It is an opening to begin a dialogue about creative solutions for difficult problems. The Tom Tancredo 'neaderthal' method is jingoistic and can't be accomplished in America. Governor Spitzer must rise above the fray and take the time to clearly explain his points. The candidates need to either support or not support the idea. And I admit that there are defensible points that both sides can make. But the candidates can't nuance us to death and take both positions. Ideally, if they don't support the proposal, they might be able to offer an alternative, well-reasoned response.
Obama '08

Democrats’ immigration problem

--NSMSNBC — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:26:14 GMT

Interesting. MSNBC seems to be advocating that candidates base their positions on what the polls say, not on what they actually believe. Hm. I thought that is what the candidates were NOT supposed to do?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Tuesday, November 13, 2007 12:48 PM)

Carrie--The candidates are supposed to base their positions on 'what is right' whether the polls agree or disagree with that position is irrelevant. Then how does the candidate know what is the right position? My advice would do whatever NSMSNBC says ... : )

Democrats’ immigration problem

Susan, NC via LA — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:29:31 GMT

"Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the States administer driver's licenses, so it is pointless to ask a presidential candidate what they think about it."

Nuanced, I see nothing wrong with asking that. After all, these candidates are voters just like us, so we do deserve to know what they think.

Democrats’ immigration problem

UndecidedAmerican IA — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:30:51 GMT

We need federal immigration reform, but every day that it's not in effect, the states have every right to protect their citizens on public roads. That's an easy, simple argument, and when put like that, will sway a majority of Americans - but it must be put clearly and succinctly, and without any waffling. Hillary is not up to this. Obama is.
Shadow, Hamden, CT (Sent Tuesday, November 13, 2007 1:17 PM)

Shadow,

What makes you think Obama is? Lets read this (if MSM allows us to share all facts of the story) on the question of illegal drives license:

Hillary: I think it makes a lot of sense but I wouldnt advise all states to go it. We need comprehensive immigration reform to avoid such situations.

Obama: Yes, I favor giving illegal drival licenses.

---
I know Obama also favors comprehensive immi reform but i am just quoting from the debate.

So Shadow, why tell lies and smear other candidates? Is that Politics of Deception on your part?

Democrats’ immigration problem

Shadow, Hamden, CT — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:27:11 GMT

Um, what?

The entire week's story has been about how Clinton gave a waffling answer at the debate on driver's licenses, and how Obama gave a straight answer in contrast. Where have you been? It's the only debate answer of Clinton's the media gave any real scrutiny to since the race began.

And why do I need the Politics of Any Slogan Starting With Capital Letters? I'm an independent, undecided voter. Given your reactionary response, I doubt the same is true of you, despite your handle.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Tess, California — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:29:06 GMT

Mitchell Feldman,

So who do you think should pick up the tab for training these illegals to drive? In California our teenagers have to pay for a Driver's Training course before they can apply for a driver's license, it comes out of their own pockets, not the governments. Do you really think we American Citizens should have to foot the bill and pay to teach these illegals how to drive, I say NO! This is just nuts. These illegal criminals need to all be deported. We need to have a National Deportation Day, and send them all home if they are here illegally period. There isn't a day that doesn't go by here in California without some illegal gang bangers doing harm to others, or getting paid under the table, and the employer is not paying taxes for these illegals or workers comp insurance, and yet honest businesses like the one I work for pays through the ass for all of it, and it is getting old. It is not fair and a majority of Americans are tired of it. I am voting and supporting Ron Paul, he is the only true choice.

RonPaul2008.com

Tess

Democrats’ immigration problem

Jane Urbandale IA — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:35:16 GMT

"Jane: Did I say anything at all about Hillary Clinton in my post? Let me answer that - NO. I will thank you to refrain from making insulting assumptions on me based on comments that I never even made.

My point, because you clearly need me to spell it out for you, is that there is all this emphasis on how candidates should follow their beliefs and not the polls, and there is MSNBC saying that the candidates need to pay attention to this item in the polls. THAT was my point. Not about what Hillary is/was doing, or what any other candidate is/was doing.

It's not ALL about Hillary, you know.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa"

Carrie, take a look at the MSNBC post you were responding to, it was telling Hillary Clinton to take note. The post was about Hillary, and how polling showed she was on the wrong side. You criticized MSNBC for taking the position that candidate's should base their positions on polls.

I agree candidates should have actual beliefs, take stands on positions, and stand by them. Which is why I will not support Hillary on January 3rd, and will reluctantly vote for her if she's the nominee, because Hillary doesn't have the guts to tell us what she really believes, or doesn't have any real beliefs. Neither possibility is acceptable!

Was your comment a general comment? Would you have responded and criticized MSNBC if the post was not about Hillary? If you claim you would have defended Obama if the post was about him, I'm sorry given posts of yours over the last several months I doubt any one would believe that!

You are a Hillary Clinton apologist, that's your right , but don't freak out when your defense of Hillary is called out. Or go ahead and freak out, that's your right.

We both know Hillary normally polls everything to death. We both know that she tried to straddle both sides of the license question during the 10/30 debate. I don't know which answer she gave that you agreed with, Frankly I agreed with her first response. My problem with Hillary is I don't think she has any real beliefs, any issue is expendable.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Dean Smith — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 02:41:24 GMT

Every illegal immigrant that is granted amnesty, automatically becomes a MINORITY. Can we afford more?

Democrats’ immigration problem

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:58:50 GMT

Jane...pay more attention. Seriously, the selective memories of people on this blog are pretty ridiculous.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Jane Urbandale IA — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:47:30 GMT

Carrie, Eastern Iowa

You've got my attention, I'll try to pay attention, I'll even drink an extra cup of coffee, if you would be so kind and tell me what I missed.

1. Was the MSNBC post you responded to about Hillary Clinton's need to "take note of polls"? A yes or no will do.

2. Did you criticize MSNBC for telling candidates to base their views on polls? Again a yes or no will do.

3. Have you repeatedly defended Hillary since at least August (possibly longer, I didn't discover first read until then)? Again a yes or no will do.

4. Have you ever written anything critical about Hillary on First read? Again a yes or no will do.

5. Are you aware, or do you agree that the Clinton administration took more polls on more issue than any prior President? Again a yes or no will do.

6. Are you actually claiming that Hillary is not poll driven, and has not, and does not continue to poll positions prior to releasing policy statements? Again a yes or no will do.

7. This will require more than a yes or no, but I have faith you can answer it. How specifically did I misrepresent of your views?

8.This will also require more than a yes or no, but you can handle it. What specifically are you referring to regarding, "the selective memories of people on this blog are pretty ridiculous"? Please enlighten me, and the rest of us without your stellar memory.

Carrie of Eastern Iowa, I don't disagree that candidate's should have actual opinions on most issues. I don't care if they have an opinion on who they want to win the World Series, as they were asked in the 9/26 Dartmouth debate, or many other minor "issues". But I do think that a candidate should have an opinion on important issues that is consistent, and it should not change because polls show support for their position has declined to under 50%. However, I also don't think a person should never change a stated position after new facts are presented that cause them to realize that their original position is wrong. My problem with your criticism of MSNBC for telling HILLARY to take note of polls against the drivers license issue, isn't because I disagree with you that poll driven politics is bad, it is because the candidate you defend at every turn, despite claiming you are undecided, is known for being poll driven.

Democrats’ immigration problem

Houston — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:52:50 GMT

Lee Holmes [[Houston: To put plainly,you are full of it. Indeed,the healthcare and infrastructure crisis IS being driven by illegal immigration to a large degree.]]

As usual, Holmes posts a lot of drivel he claims come from "sources" without actually quoting or citing any actual reference documents.

The health care crisis is being driven in large part by insurance companies cancelling the insurance policies of American CITIZENS who experience expensive illnesses and because American CITIZENS cannot afford to insure themselves if they lose their jobs. Legal aliens may drive up the cost of emergency room care. Except for thos who are left to die on the emergency room floor or a hospital hallway.

[[The idea that the need to get hold of these problems ,is based in ''racism''and ''xenophobia''is crap ]]

The real know-nothings spewing crap are idiots like Lou Dobbs who spread the vicious rumor that illegal Mexican immigrants were causing a leprosy epidemic in the United States. That was real crap, but Holmes would probably swallow it gladly. Or do you have a source for this dread epidemic from a xenophobe web site?

Democrats’ immigration problem

Jackie Houston, Texas — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 18:53:45 GMT

TO ALL THOSE AGAINST DRIVERS LICENSE ISSUED TO IMMMIGRANT AND AGAINST IMMIGRANTS PERIOD::

its beacause of ppl like yall this country is having so much chaos on this perticular subject,I mean what is soo wrong with issuing these ppl DRIVERS LICENSE!!!! come on immigrant or legal any one can be a threat if what you ppl are trying to insinuate is that an immigrant with a license can be much more dangerous than a legal person with one..how stupid can you get?? This whole license thing has become such a big deal when it really shouldnt be..they should be worrying on how we can work on helping the immigrants who have been in this country living decently, trying to provide for their families. They make all immigrants sound like criminals and that is soo unfair because alot of these ppl are decent honest HARD WORKING ppl who are only here to provide a better life for their loved ones. No one should take that away from them. They pay taxes just like the rest of us, they pay bills just like we all do. How come the goverment doesnt complain then?? Alot of their children if not most are CITIZENS!!!! but the goverment does not seem to care about that..they rather put these little innocent lives thru HELL by taking away their providers, THEIR LOVED ONES!!! I just hope that when the elections do come the right choices are made by who ever is elected.. I pray that this country will have the sense enough to realize that these immigrants are a large percentage of our population, and therefor they are a huge part of our economy, and if you decide to deport them all our country will be impacted as well.

Democrats’ immigration problem

creesha, oklahoma city, ok — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:21:43 GMT

all i want to to these people that who is goin to do the low level labour ARE YOU ? and do u think that if these people are deported the infrastructure of the country will be in the same level that it is now. i am not supporting the illegal immigrants but i guess deporting them is not a good idea ....coz that will not only affect them but the country too.