First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:03:32 GMT

Perhaps the audience was booing the in-fighting that has begun to characterize these debates. Several of the candidates made note of the fact that they are doing the Democratic party no favors by pouncing on each other. Unless I need to clean my ears out, there were plenty of cheers for Edwards and Obama and the others when they made good points as well. What people seemed to be booing was the negativity.

Biden was as excellent as he always is at the debates. On Morning Joe today, Chuck Todd was on discussing the debate performances and the general consensus was that Biden appears to be the adult on a stage full of children. I agree with that assessment. Biden is mature, he says what he needs to say to get his point across and then he shuts his trap. His ideas are solid, his tone is appropriate and he has yet to look bad at one of these debates. Biden not only looks presidential but he also acts presidential.

I thought Hillary also did great. She looked great, she sounded great - and most importantly for her campaign, she sounded confident again.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mike Henry, Quanah, Texas — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:03:35 GMT

The question Mr. Blitzer asked about the candidate's priorities as president was the thing I thought was telling. He asked whether the priority should be on human rights or national security. If I recall, all of the democratic candidates came down on the side of national security, but, clearly John Edwards saw the question for what it was - tom foolery.

If you analyse that question, it comes down to the question whether it is preferrable that a foreign power destroy America or that Americans destroy America.

The reason is that America is nothing if not a constitution, limitations on the power of government, reservations of meaningful power to the states and to the people, a democracy, a government of the people, by the people and for the people. We fought a revolutionary war against England for those principles. We fought a horrendously bloody civil war for those principles. We throw the principles away, we throw the country away.

The question assumes a choice that does not exist. And I expect that the Republican party under its present leadership does not understand that. It may be the most compelling reason we need a change.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

jerry/corpus christi texas — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:04:04 GMT

Thank god for TIVO. 20 minutes and I was done. This tea party, ERRRRRRRR, debate was not much fun to watch. I enjoyed Hillary being slapped around a bit. She still cannot and will not answer any question about Social Security. I don't know if she thinks it is that big of a problem or what, telling everyone we will do a study on it is not part of the solutions. Obama wanting to raise taxes is a pretty frightening thought as well. But for the time I watched Hillary, she did nothing to impress even blind and deaf people that she is a serious candidate for President.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

HillaryHater — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:09:18 GMT

The threats on Wolf Blitzer worked. He was a Lamb as the rival campaigns to clinton are saying. Move.on.org threats and ther Clinton Threats must have had Wolf thinking of "i better be careful" I remember Vince Foster and Juanita Broaddick, and Katheen willeys husband. Clinton Praises Wolf as being the BEST moderater, adn more professinal that Tim Russert. Watch out America Hillary is after you next

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Meredith Martin, Ocala, Florida — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:10:52 GMT

I was very disappointed in Wolf Blitzer. He is a weak moderator. The questions were NOT ones that should have been answered yes or no. Many were not of great national importance. And that booing was allowed was disgusting!

Obama was by far better than Clinton who just parrots what she thinks the voter wants to hear.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Daniel, NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:12:23 GMT

A new general election poll from Nevada released yesterday by CNN showed how tight Nevada will be come November (check it out: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/11/waiting-for-las-vegas-fireworks.html )<br>
As for the debate, Hillary was very strong and came out swinging early... which silenced her opponents. Read Campaign Diaries's full analysis of the debate: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/11/las-vegas-debate-when-crowd-takes-care.html

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

HMT-MI — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:13:42 GMT

hello

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:14:55 GMT

I can't wait to see sierra's, and jerry's comments on Hillary's performance last night. She effectively slipped jabs from Obama and Edwards, and counterpunched methodically.
Obama looked like a jack-lighted deer when she brought up the fact that he opposed universal healthcare. She pointed out that second tier candidates aren't picking on her because she's a woman, they're attacking her because she's the frontrunner. I loved the crowd response to that one!
Edwards tried to get in the mix, but never really did.
And speaking of the audience, who would have thought she'd get THAT kind of response from people in The Nevada State Democratic Party, and the students and faculty of UNLV? They LOVED her! They also showed Obama and Edwards what most of us think of their mud-slinging republican-like campaign tactics.
That's another thing she did adroitly last night. She called Obama out on his 1990's Neo-Con rhetoric.
In a word, she was BRILLIANT.
Sorry sierra, but yo' boys didn't "finish her" as you said they would. In fact, they fell far short of that, and in the end they got THUMPED themselves.
GO HILLARY!!! Clinton for President 2008!!!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Steve, Hartford, CT — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:17:10 GMT

Clinton continues to be disingenuous and Obama continues to have trouble with the format of these debates. I had hoped for something new and interesting to happen this time. Pity.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Anonymous, Rolla, MO — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:21:36 GMT

As an Obama guy, I will admit Clinton did well. But take away that slitled audience, and it's a different debate, no doubt.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:21:41 GMT

Obama sticking to his guns? You folks in the media are trying ever so hard to make this a race. Obama was a disaster last night. He had more waffles than a diner at breakfast.

He looked weak and blew the question regarding human rights vs. national security. Clinton followed it up, hit it out of the part, and make him look soft and weak in the process.

He blew the question on drivers lic. He tried to parse and give an answer without taking a position and in the end he embarassed himself by realizing how bad he looked and caving by going back to his original position.

He blew the nuclear waste question. Again he tried to be cutely and evasive and not take a positon, just like on drivers lic, and human rights / vs. national security.

The guy doesn't appear Presidential. He doesn't appear ready to be President. He doesn't even appear to be different as he says.

The worst thing that happened to him last night was Clinton's dig about his "hoping" and her pointing out that the Republicans would not give up and go away. To partisan Democrats who vote in the primaries, they knew exactly what she meant and I think most would agree with her. Obama is inexperienced and naive.

But I understand why you are trying to prop him up. You want a race to driver viewers / site traffic.

Good luck with that.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Stella — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:25:17 GMT

Obama was at his best when Russert (Hillary hater) and Chris Matthew (another Clinton hater) helped him and Edwards attack Hillary.
Last night debate was more civil and helped Hillary.
Obama is a lightweight and Edwards is mean spirited and a lightweight.
GO HILLARY!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

MarkkraM, East Moline, IL — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:29:03 GMT

I don't agree that Obama had to slap Hillary on the 1993 failure, maybe the flip on position 14 years later or the money she receives from the Industries involved in change. ( STrange on how W.Buffet supports Obama, but is investing in Health Insurance companies?). Obama should of thrown his Ethics, Morals, Cleanness, NO Drama, Understanding, Eagerness, and his LOVE of America into the mix!!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

mike oh — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:29:32 GMT

Are the moderators on strike too?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Sara, Cedar Rapids, Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:32:20 GMT

CNN should be embarrassed at that debate. I have never seen such a out of control rude audience. There is such a thing as debate decorum, and it was completely absent last night.

I was fortunate enough to get tickets through the Democratic party to ABC's August debate in Des Moines. Not only did the Democratic party make it clear that no campaign buttons were allowed, but those presents agreed to the rules, which included no cheering, etc. I have never seen a debate where a candidate was heckled as Obama was. I'm not supporting Obama at the caucus, but he is a good man, as is John Edwards, and they should not have had to put up with the behavior of the crowd. And CNN did nothing to shut it down. Sadly I think the Democratic debate Fox wanted to put on in Nevada could not have been worse, even if Fox packed the audience with its regular viewers.

I doubt size of the audience fully explains the crowds behavior, because more people were at the AFL-CIO forum in Chicago, and while Keith Olberman wasn't able to get them to stop cheering after answers, the crowd had the manners of British royalty at high tea compared to the group in Vegas last night!

Apparently they don't understand that there is a difference between a welter weight prize fight and a Presidential debate. I'm sure it will be the last time any network with a desire to maintain credibility will host a debate in Vegas.

"Biden -- again -- had a good night. He keeps doing well at these debates; we'll see if he can use this to propel himself in Iowa."

I agree with First Read, although Biden didn't merely have a good night, he was once again the best on stage. I imagine it is because he is in a league of his own when it comes to knowledge, experience, and accomplishments. He doesn't have to go into hiding and work on debate prep, of poll test answers. Biden even held a campaign event immediately prior to the debate, because Biden knows issues and facts, and is able to speak the truth, no prep required! Go Joe!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

juan, ft lauderdale,fl — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:34:47 GMT

Poor Kucinich ignored once again first by Wolf and now by Mark Murray. He has been the only canidate who has the guts to stand by his his anti-war vote from day 1 unlike the leading canidates who all conviently flip-flop. He did have the best line when he stated that he was against The Patriot Act because I actually read it. What a concept!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Dorothy Goldstein, Phoenix, AZ — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:42:04 GMT

The Democratic Debate last night in Las Vegas, was absolutely terrific. And I must thank the moderators, Wolf Blitzer, Campbell Brown and John Roberts, they were masters. Comparing them to Chris Matthews and Tim Russert is like night and day, heaven and hell. Thank you so much for being fair, honest, and extremely entertaining. YEA for HILLARY. She shone like a bright star. She was the best. My husband and were always voting for her, but not we are more than certainly voting for her. I also think that Governor Richardson, or Joe Biden would make wonderful running mates with Clinton in the Presidental nomination. Because we really feel that Clinton will win the nomination. She is the best qualified. And, ok, playing the gender card, we would absolutely want to see a woman president in our lifetimes. All of our Presidents were men, let's give a woman a chance. And not just any woman, Hillary is the best.

Again, thanx to CNN for doing a far better and more professional and successful jobs than their "foaming at the mouth" coherts over at MSNBC. It was really disqusting the way that MSNBC handled the last debate. CNN is now our choice for all news!!!!!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Sierra, SF — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:42:44 GMT

It wasn't the knock out I'd hoped for....
But, it wasn't a Clinton victory

The debate will have longer term effects
Hillary is part of the pack
She's no longer floating above the fray

Hillary's BIGGEST point was that she FLIP FLOPPED on IDs for illegal aliens !
Some triumph !
Did you notice, Iowa ?

She was still evasive, she didn't answer questions
On Social Security, she DIDN'T have specifics
If elected she'all APPOINT A COMMISSION on SS?
That's NOT LEADERSHIP !!
That's evasive

How will you lead this coutry if you don't tell us where you're going ?
Health Care ? Iraq ? Iran ?

Hillary claimed people were throwing 'mud' at her ?
WHO THREW MUD ?
WHEN ?
WHAT MUD ?
She sounded weak and whiney
When she has to send out her husband to defend her from 'Swift Boating' ?
She seems needy not strong

No knockout, but if THAT's all she has....

The moderator noted that there seemed to be a lot of Clinton supporters.
She packed the audience !!
Cute !!
Isn't THAT typical of the Clinton campaign ?

I doubt anybody but a Clinton cultist could think she did well....

COME ON IOWA !!
Come on New Hampshire !!

I must say, I've moved from having Obama as my first choice to having Edwards as my choice.
They're both good, but Edwards is more assertive...

GAME ON !!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Ron Jeffers — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:42:59 GMT

That was a fun debate. I never considered supporting Biden prior to last night, but he impressed me both with his knowledge and his sense of humor. The fact that many Independents and Republicans might support him makes him a viable candidate. Clinton had a good night as well. Obama did give specific answers to questions, but he needs to develope more of a personality. Remember, likability is important in a presidential election. Edwards again gave very general answers and seemed to much of a rah-rah candidate. I am still leaning towards Obama, but am giving serious consideration to Biden.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Rob Boston — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:43:56 GMT

Lou Dobbs is a pompous windbag. He riles people up but does not provide solutions to problems. WHo will pick American crops and bus our restaurant tables - jobs that Americans do not want to do.

Bill Richardson had a good line at last nights debate: Tell Mexico to create jobs for its citizens so that they will not have to come to america for jobs. As long as the USA is the land of opportunity (thank God it is) people will come here to better themselves and make better lives for their children.

Oddly, if Dobbs runs he may get more votes than the Republican nominee and that would make for an interesting question about realignment of the political parties.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Dorothy Goldstein, Phoenix, AZ — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:46:20 GMT

Hillary did absolutely great. A shining star. And Wolf Blitzer, Campbell Brown and John Roberts were superb...they far outdid their "foaming at the mouth" rivals on MSNBC (Chris Matthews and Tim Russert). This debate was far better than the one 2 weeks ago. My husband and I loved Hillary before this debate, but after last night debate, we love her even more. She is the bright shining star that we have been looking for!!!!

And thank you again to the moderators at CNN. I don't think we will ever watch MSNBC anymore.... CNN is the best

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Poops McMasterson Chicago, IL — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:47:17 GMT

Oh Pish Posh

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Ken Rhea, Stateline, NV — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:47:57 GMT

The reason I didn't vote at all in the last presidential election instead of voting for John Kerry was because it was clear that John Kerry was PRETENDING to be much more conservative than he really is and there was no way to know what he would really have done as president. In that respect, Hillary is exactly like Kerry (pretending to be more conservative than she really is) and, once again, I will not vote in the general election for the same reason, if the only choices are Hillary Special Interest Clinton vs Rudy I'd Still Invade Iraq Giuliani.

Ken Rhea, Stateline, NV

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Sierra, SF — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:48:32 GMT

'...Clinton’s about-face on NAFTA from what she said about the trade deal just one year ago was striking (and perhaps something reporters look into). Nobody on stage jumped on it -- but it's perhaps a bigger flip she'll have to answer for than the war...'

WHAT DOES SHE STAND FOR ?

How will you 'lead' America if nobody knows what you stand for ?

Evasive little Hillary...
Please don't pick on her
Please don't throw 'mud'
She'll call Bill to get you

Where does she stand on Social Security ?
She'll appoint a commission
Republicans and Democrats ?
How about lobbyists ?
They're people, too

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, evasive, dishonest, unethical

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Dave, Tn — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:52:34 GMT

"Clinton hosts a discussion on renewable energy before holding a campaign rally in Reno;"

Her flunky in the spin room last night said Clinton was flying back to DC for a very important vote.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Jim L. Irmo, SC — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:53:07 GMT

Thank You First Read! Just when I think there is no news source left on the internet that will provide thoughtful, even-handed reporting and analysis of the presidential race, I come here and read the above. Personally, I thought no one did particularly well. Richardson might have had his best night, but that isn't saying much. Biden and Dodd come across as too senatorial, although I did really like that Dodd comment about the debate being "shrill" (wonder who that was directed towards). Kucinich seems on top of things, but it is a losing battle.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Anna omaha Ne — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:56:20 GMT

Our next President should be Hillary Clinton. Last night she did great. Except for Biden no one else came close to her Ability to speak with strenghth. vigor and energy.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Cherie, Des Moines, IA — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:58:23 GMT

Making it sound like the audience was not packed with Hillary supporters is simply insulting. As for her supporters "booing" if that is "Presidential" then give me George Bush for another 4 years...oh wait...that IS what we get if "that woman" is elected.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Sierra, SF — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:06:53 GMT

'... But just how many of the rest were Clinton supporters? Because their booing when Edwards or Obama confronted Clinton was distracting to the candidates and threw them off. The audience was supposed to play a role via the questions they asked; instead, they played a MAJOR role in helping Clinton have home-field advantage...'

Unethical little Hillary
Did she plant the 'audience' ?
She can't help herself
It's the 'Clinton touch'
Karl Rove LIVES in the Clinton Campaign !!

She complained about the Republican playbook...
Mark Penn pulled out the Repub;ocanm playbook

Obama didn't win
Edwards didn't win

I think Hillary lost....

She FLIP FLOPPED on IDs for illegal aliens
She FLIP FLOPPED on NAFTA
She was evasive and dishonest on Scoial Security

She was whiney and weak !!
Poor little Hillary
Don't PICK ON HER !!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Rich Wood, Ames Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:08:00 GMT

Hillary is looking extremely desperate. She's turned her campaign negative to try to starve off the rallies of both Obama and Edwards. Hillary is losing ground in the polls, so expect these attacks and mud-slinging from her to continue. What's unusual is that she's doing the negative campaigning rather then letting her surrogates do it. Troubled times for the Clinton campaign.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

RuthieM — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:08:52 GMT

Wolf sure got the Clinton threats because he gave her not just one but a few passes like when he asked her the immigration question and she said no. He then should've asked her why she had changed her mind for the tenth time. Obama was great, he again answered the questions his way, at his own time, as usual.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mike K, Denver — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:10:55 GMT

<<On the flip side, Clinton’s about-face on NAFTA from what she said about the trade deal just one year ago was striking (and perhaps something reporters look into). Nobody on stage jumped on it -- but it's perhaps a bigger flip she'll have to answer for than the war.>>

As long as CNN isn't the network doing it. Oh wait, they won't since they're all up her a-- drinking kool aid she's offering up there.

I'd love to see Russert and Matthews really attack this point. I'd love it even more if the other candidates, especially Obama and Edwards, did too. There's her differing positions on NAFTA then there is her support for the Peru deal and then her stating that her administration would put a temporary moritorium on all trade deals to give time to study them. Again, another seeming flip flop there. Which is it, Senator Clinton, do you support the deal in Peru or do you believe that they all should be subject to scrutiny. If it is the latter, why did you vote for the Peru deal?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

fun watcher — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:12:07 GMT

I think i am going to gain some weight today. I went and bought a box of pop corn. I think i am going to need it today. I just grab my first bag and open my pop. It is going to be so fun to watch all the rage and cry for fault troughout the day. A lot of fun

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:13:33 GMT

What will be today's most popular excuses for Hillary's resounding success and her two main rivals getting their comeuppance in last night's debate?

1- Wolf Blitzer is a CLINTON operative

2- The entire crowd was a plant.

3- CNN is the Clinton News Network (all purpose excuse)

4- The questions FAVORED Clinton.

5- The fix is in.

6- A conspiracy theory of your choice.

Van

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

LonewackoDotCom, L.A. CA — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:13:59 GMT

The biggest loser, as usual, was the American public.

1. Suzanne M. treated an audience member claim (racial profiling) as if it had been verified; it was just a claim.

2. The audience member question about the border contained a lie ( http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/007241.html ); no one from CNN raised any doubts about the claim. I'm going to assume that was intentional, since Lou Dobbs is the only CNN anchor willing to tell the truth about the matter.

3. In addition to being wrong about DLs for IAs, there are at least *five* things wrong with Obama's answer to that question, none of which Wolf called him on:

http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/007242.html

While it's good that Wolf got Obama laughed at, it would have been an actual public service if he had pointed out all of Obama's misleading and incomplete statements.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

framecop, Raleigh, NC — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:16:01 GMT

The only people who can bury Edwards are THE MEDIA, and that's exactly what they are doing.

It must be good to have the corporate owned media doing your work for you, like Clinton does.

CNN had James Carville and David Gergen on last night, who both worked for Bill Clinton, and Carville with both of them.

MSNBC today will likely have on Democratic Strategists like Bill Press, Hilary Rosen, or Peter Fein who have done nothing all year but push Hillary Clinton and trash John Edwards.

It must be good to let the media do your work for you.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:19:06 GMT

I thank everyone who had clear thoughts on the debate, my dish went out when we got a snow storm so I missed the debate. But I was interested in the audience response, it shows a dem party that is fired up, I think in the end that is what will give us a victory next year. I know that some independants and fair wheather dems will not vote for THE HILL, so what, they don't speak for everyone, I do know that the excitment is in our camp, the repubs are floundering to come up with a candidate that can say change without condemning the current administration and that will eventually kill their chances.
YEHAH, YEHAH, GO DEMS. What ever happened to physic mary, I miss her.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Dazed and Confused in DC — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:19:50 GMT

"Clinton ducked the drivers' license controversy" by answering no. Total BS. She was asked--as was Obama and everyone else--to answer yes or no. She and Biden both accurately understood the value of a succinct answer on this one. Too bad for Obama if he didn't. Just because neither Blitzer nor any of the other candidates followed up doesn't mean she ducked it. Get real. I know you guys want a race, but if last night's performance was any indication, Obama is way overrated and I wouldn't hold your breath. You want a race: go cover the Republicans.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Stu, Saginaw, MI — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:21:13 GMT

The grades (objectively):

Clinton: A to A-
Obama: B-
Edwards: C- to D+

No one else matters, they're out of it. BTW, my favorite falls into the "no one else matters" category.

x

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:21:18 GMT

Carrie nailed it:

Biden is the invisible man on these debates, but he has it all.

Hillary was excellent, well prepared, and most of all, poised. I despise the term, but she did look every inch "presidential."

Edwards faded.

Obama was the deer in the headlights in one of his final chances to be The Man.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Chris, Parker, CO — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:22:32 GMT

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Larry Albany ny — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:27:25 GMT

I agree with Carrie, Biden appears to have the most experience, especially when it comes to foriegn policy. I like all of the Demacratic candidates and was leaning toward Edwards, however he appears to be shifting to the left and the other major candidates appear to be posturing based on the polls. Biden's message is clear and consistent. I think alot of us think Biden is the best most well equiped candidate but we don't think he is electable because he doesn't have alot of money and a massive campaign team. If all of us were picking just on the basis of who we thought was the best and not on who we think will win, Biden would have a much better showing in the polls. Also they have been comparing how the top three candidates would do against the Republican contenders but I haven't seen on on Biden against the top Republican contenders. I think it would be interesting. Also I would think that Biden would do very well with independents and moderate Republicans. It appears that most people feel that Biden would make a great Secretary of State, then why not commander in chief. Go Joe.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mitchell B. Feldman, Vestal, NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:28:24 GMT

Last night's debate more civil? I don't remember any booing at the Philly debate. Maybe those polite and polished Philadelphians are just too refined to boo. I guess Harry Reid's son couldn't get any of his shills into that audience. I guess if softball questions to Hillary and cutting off the responses of the others, by Wolf, is more civil, then Stella, you got what you wanted. Read the comments this AM. Overwhelmingly, the readership feels that the debate was a set-up to help Hillary after her fiasco last time. I have to say that she was definitely was more polished this time but she still said nothing! She said things that were contradictory to her votes and behavior and still (if not more than ever) played the sisterhood card. Each time I watched her recite her scripted responses, as written by Mark Penn, I could only pray that the general electorate of the Democratic party would be insightful enough to see through the sham; I know that the Iowans are. Diamonds v. pearls, comfortable in the kitchen, sheesh!

And the booing, wow! Ya' think Wolf might have asked that the booing be curtailed? Not in his job description? Funny how Hillary wasn't on the receiving end of any of the booing. Oh, yeah, I should have realized, her answers were just, so right on.
Obama '08

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Sierra, SF — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:28:56 GMT

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester,NY: '...I can't wait to see sierra's, and jerry's comments on Hillary's performance last night...'

I won't keep you waiting, Merle..

She effectively slipped jabs from Obama and Edwards, and counterpunched methodically....'

She didn't win
She was evasive and slippery...
Her 'highlight' (sic) was FLIP FLOPPING on national TV over IDs for illegal aliens...
Clever...

If you noticed, Merle she's no longer being coronated
Hillary is one of the pack, fighting for the nomination
What happened to her 'entitlement' to the Presidency ?

'...candidates aren't picking on her because she's a woman, they're attacking her because she's the frontrunner...'

Hillary sounded weak and whiney last night
Hillary didn't sound like a stron leader

What MUD ?
Who's picking on Hillary ?

'...I loved the crowd response to that one!...'

The moderator thought she might have 'packed' the house
Unethical ?
Clintonesque ?

'...And speaking of the audience, who would have thought she'd get THAT kind of response from people in The Nevada State Democratic Party, and the students and faculty of UNLV? They LOVED her! They also showed Obama and Edwards what most of us think of their mud-slinging republican-like campaign tactics...'

Packing the house is a Bush style tactic
Unethical
Weak and whiney
NOT a LEADER

'...Sorry sierra, but yo' boys didn't "finish her" as you said they would...'

I hoped they would
They didn't
Hillary is revealing her weaknesses...
AND she's no longer above the field

'...
GO HILLARY!!!
Clinton for President 2008!!!...'

or maybe not
She may have laid the gourndwork for her defeat
Iowans may not be impressed with her debating tactics
or her neediness

A little too cute and too dishonest

Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandals and divisiveness

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Chris Hassel, Saint Paul, Minnesota — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:29:23 GMT

I must be out of step with this "Big Three" fascination that has gripped the media (and possibly the electorate); I don't see why Senators Clinton, Edwards, and Obama are being hyped so much. Senator Clinton is smart and authoritative, and she exudes a certain amount of gravitas, so she's probably the strongest candidate of those particular three. That being said, her answers are elliptical, overly-general, and obviously the result of focus-group work and polling. Senator Obama is smart and authoritative, but he's way too inexperienced to project gravitas just yet; I'd put him at number two amongst "The Big Three." Senator Edwards may be smart, but that's about it....

I found Senator Biden and Governor Richardson to be the winners of last night's debate; they were more precise with regards to where they stand on various policy issues and looked less infantile that the "Big Three," who spent much of their time bickering like disgruntled siblings and dancing around the actual issues. Mr. Biden and Mr. Richardson are also more realistic regarding foreign policy than any of the "Big Three" in that they have pragmatic, proactive plans that do not come across as sloganeering platitudes so much as solid examples of thoughtful policy derived from years of experience. Are these guys too serious regarding the important issues to be elected by today's superficial electorate?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Jim Wilson, Ny, NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:30:16 GMT

Clinton set up the Audience once again; I wonder how many people she planted out there this time. She is by far the worse candidate for American Presidency! The only smart thing she has done was keep her mouth shut, and stick to her one word answers. She's too scared of going into detail due to her not knowing what to say. She’s a prefabricated machine without emotion. The day Hillary becomes president is the day I become a citizen of another country. God save this country!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Desperate, Overland Park kansas — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:31:08 GMT

I have watched every single one of these debates (everyone that has been televised anyways). I'm done. No one says anything new. None of these candidates are especially exciting. Few of these candidates if any support the founding fathers ideals or the constitution for that matter, but hey they are better than Republicans. I wonder how long the aforementioned is going to be a winning strategy for Dems? I'll show up on election day for them, but come on, if I don't see some real results:
Social Security solvency
Carbon Tax
Electric Car mandate and tax redemption
Repeal of the patriot act
Withdrawal from the Mideast
Enforcement of free trade
Comprehensive immigration reform
National Healthcare

Then I'm done. I'll exploit the stock market like the rest of the richest 1 percent of the country, get ridiculously rich and leave. I used to want to stay because of the principles, but hearing all of the candidates pick national security over human rights was the last straw. Though the GOP has turned downright evil and dictatorial, the Dems have turned into pussies. This from a nation which was spawned by great thinkers AND strong men who said,
"Give me liberty or give me death"- Patrick Henry
"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"- Ben Franklin
"Our legislators are not sufficiently apprized of the rightful limits of their power; that their true office is to declare and enforce only our natural rights... and to take none of them from us."- Thomas Jefferson
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."- Thomas Jefferson

I hope our citizenry can rescue itself from the depths of fear which it has been trapped in.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Anonymouse, Rolla, MO — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:31:11 GMT

"What will be today's most popular excuses for Hillary's resounding success and her two main rivals getting their comeuppance in last night's debate?

1- Wolf Blitzer is a CLINTON operative

2- The entire crowd was a plant.

3- CNN is the Clinton News Network (all purpose excuse)

4- The questions FAVORED Clinton.

5- The fix is in.

6- A conspiracy theory of your choice."

I'll take the 2-3 combo.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

soccersecuritymom — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:31:44 GMT

Yes ladies. I'm sure we're all so glad that it's finally been settled that Hillary! likes BOTH pearls AND diamonds. I can finally rest easy knowing my country is secure in this knowledge.

Kudos to CNN for sparing us the swimsuit competition portion of this pageant.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Gary,Walhalla,SC — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:33:26 GMT

Remember this.Even though Hillary has the money,democratic brass ranks,corporate interests, and media behind her, this is not going to be good enough.Edwards is taking Iowa then he will explode.People are no longer fooled by polls,media biased,etc.....In the end it is the people that will decide, and the people will chose Edwards.Rember this comment and bank on it!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mike K, Denver — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:34:08 GMT

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

pat huntington ny — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:35:41 GMT

Hillary did great, she answered the questions, and she put on a strong game. Those who say otherwise, did not see the debate, or are just exposing their intellectual dishonesty and utter prejudices.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Jackie, Las Vegas — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:36:43 GMT

MSNBC does a better job of these debates. Wolf Blitzer drone voice would put most people asleep. As for the debates Hiliary is not Bill in any way shape or form and Barack represents another generation of voters all together; Hiliary is of the past and Barack's for the future and since Bill has been in the world has changed dramatically so the New Democratic Party of the future is represented by Barack so if you want to move your country forward people vote for to Barack to lead....and yes he does have a "different style" of leadership and he knows the constitution (constitutional law professor); a much more different leadership style and a hell of alot more knowledgable than GW.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Dave in NM — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:44:02 GMT

I feel like I'm screaming in the dark, here. PEOPLE HATE HILLARY. Nominate Hillary, and you elect the Republican (or at least set up another squeaker they can steal, particularly now that the Supreme Court has been polluted with Roberts and Scalito). She's the ONLY thing that could get the dispirited right wing fired up again. Want President Giuliani? President Romney? All you have to do is make Hillary the nominee.

(Not that she wouldn't make a good President; she's just never going to get the chance.) ANYONE BUT HILLARY!!!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Ralph Horky, Gainesville Fl — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:45:35 GMT

Wolfe Bliter was terrible and I am usually ok with him. This was pure pandering to an audience and competeing with NBC.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Ralph Horky, Gainesville Fl — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:46:08 GMT

Wolfe Bliter was terrible and I am usually ok with him. This was pure pandering to an audience and competeing with NBC.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

CitizenJ — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:47:06 GMT

Structure for today's comments, and a list of those who will be posting them:

"Hillary showed those boys! They are so scared of her being president. They should just get over it and stop hating women. I have a vision of a woman in the White House!"

Posted by:
BionicWoman
bb
Psychic Mary
Students from UNF
Tuck, Realityville, KS

"I didn't watch the debate, or read anything about it, but Hillary clearly won. She was strong, resilient, and the other candidates sucked."

Posted by:
bb
Tuck, Realityville, KS
J. Merle Stanley

"Hillary is a flip-flopper! She won't answer questions! Barack killed her on Social Security."

Posted by:
Sierra, SF
Hillaryhater
Sierra, SF

"Hillary sucks."

Posted by jerry

"Biden performed well again, and still won't gain traction."

Posted by:
Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Thank God for Carrie)
Mark Thieme

"Let's wait for the Hillary-haters [Obama-haters] to post their excuses"

Posted by:
Van
Mike K, Denver

"Lets be rational here - nothing has really changed with this debate. Each of the front-runners took some criticism, and deflected some. And what do you know, they are in exactly the same place on issues as they were before the debate. The only difference is who the media says "won" or "lost", and who had the best sound-bytes. Now we have something different to talk about until Iowa."

Posted by:

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

SoCal for Edwards — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:48:16 GMT

As an Edwards supporter, I have to admit I was dissapointed last night. I posted on an earlier thread that he need to get back to basics, what he's about and how he plans to fix the country and stop attacking Hillary. He didn't and he got knocked down a few pegs. I agree with Carrie, the boos we probably for the general negativity and not for Edwards him self. He can recover but he needs to keep his trap shut about Hillary and focus on what he can do for this country and beat that message home. Everyone is applauding Hillary's performance because she fought back. She still didn't give straight answers as to the driver license issue or why she voted for the resolution on Iran, but the medai has let her slide on that once again. Obama look puzzled, lost and frustrated. I still like him and think he'll make a great VP to whoever wins the nomination, I just hope it's not Hillary. We don't need a democratic-republican for the next four years, we need a true democrat.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Tuck, Realityville, KS — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:51:32 GMT

mike K.. obama was given the most time to speak of any of the canidates... you're just confused cause he never says anything during that time

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mike K, Denver — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:51:45 GMT

<<"Clinton ducked the drivers' license controversy" by answering no. Total BS. She was asked--as was Obama and everyone else--to answer yes or no. She and Biden both accurately understood the value of a succinct answer on this one. Too bad for Obama if he didn't. Just because neither Blitzer nor any of the other candidates followed up doesn't mean she ducked it. Get real. I know you guys want a race, but if last night's performance was any indication, Obama is way overrated and I wouldn't hold your breath. You want a race: go cover the Republicans. >>

But this leads to the bigger issue of illegal immigration which does NOT have a one-word solution. It was not the time for Wolf to play "beat the clock" with the candidates and see how fast he could get through the question just so he could pitch another softball to Clinton. Obama understands that it is one piece to a complex puzzle and not a one-word bullet pointed answer.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mendicant, Bettendorf, Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:54:26 GMT

Actually, I thought the whole thing was high comedy and I can't wait for the Saturday Night Live version of last night's debate. Sad to say, but Edwards just faded out last night. He kept trying to elbow his way back in, but just couldn't stay in. A lot of his stuff was good, and he did deflect some of Hillary's rejoinders, but in all, he just didn't make an impression on last night. Obama got slapped bigtime last night, and was left wandering around like a duck wacked on the head. Hillary was ready for it. She handled the questions well, and whether you like her or not, she was ready for a fight and dished it out. Joe Biden was excellent. I was the most impressed with him, and sadly enough he just doesn't have the money or the means to take a lead in the polls. Hopefully that might change come Iowa, but I'm not holding my breath. Dennis Kucinich was almost reduced to comedy relief last nigh. Even though I respect the man and his beliefs I just don't see much more for him. Richardson and Dodd were just taking up space. So, to me the winners last night were Hillary and Biden, with Biden being the most impressive, and then Obama and Edwards, with Edwards behind because he was shunted off to the side away from Hillary.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Chet Munson, Ft. Myers FL — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:54:52 GMT

Kudos to CNN for sparing us the swimsuit competition portion of this pageant.

soccersecuritymom

It got really ugly when Richardson missed the memo from CNN that they had dropped the swimsuit portion of the competition, and he showed up on stage in a Speedo. Haven't heard that much gagging since Clinton was in one of the back rooms of the Oval Office.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Buck Clark, Waterloo, Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:55:02 GMT

It escapes me how anyone can watch one of these Democratic presidential debates and not come away with one very clear candidate that can immediately begin restoring our country to it's rightful place of respect and dignity. With the little time that he is given, Joe Biden is hands down the most qualified and capable candidate to hit the ground running and make a positive difference. Joe Biden can immediately work across party lines and international borders to begin forming alliances that will restore our ability to be the diplomatic leader in the world. It's no coincidence that when a question is first asked of Joe Biden, after his answer and in follow up with other candidates they almost always start with "Joe is right" That's because he IS right and he has the knowledge no one else on the stage does. Give EM Hell Joe!!!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Dot, Illinois — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:55:23 GMT

Carrie

I didn't get to watch the debate so I was glad to read your blog. As I have read through those posted on the topic, so many of them say, in some for or other (Biden seemed the best--Biden seemed qualified, etc) I am wondering if this is resonating with the caucus goers of Iowa? Since you live there, do you get a sense that the whole story is about Clinton, Obama, Edwards, or do they other candidates still have a chance?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Todd, Vicksburg, MI — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:58:33 GMT

NBC just LOVES Obama!! I didn't think he did very well last night. He can't even get a sentence out without stuttering through it! I thought Hillary had a pretty good night, but I think Biden is CLEARLY the most straight-forward and the most knowledgeable. If you've watched all the debates, you might have noticed how many times the other candidates say that they agree with Biden when they answer a question. It's happened quite a lot. Pay attention to that guy!!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

--NSMSNBC — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:00:58 GMT

Dr. No: It's nice that H.R. Clinton could finally form an opinion on something now that the controversy is over. Anyway, Obama. He said that he supports driver's licenses for illegals (I love that term, it seems so not P.C., but it is, I think). Anyway, he supports licenses for the short term for the reasons of national security, preventing traffic accidents and uninsured situations, since the Federal government is not doing it's job on the issue. His IMMIGRATION POLICY is to secure the borders and come down tougher on those hiring illegals. The problem with the simple Yes or No question on this issue is that if you say you support it, then people will think that you immigration policy is to give driver's licenses to people which leads to people believe that you support the Kucinich plan of complete amnesty. That is not the case with Obama.

It did bother me how Obama always said undocumented workers. I'd be like, did he just say that, and when the closed captioning came up, it kept saying immigrants, and I'd be like ooookay ... to which the who cycle would repeat itself.

A swing and a miss: I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a leader, somebody who can articulate his positions like Obama. So maybe he doesn't take every advantage to attack his opponents, why do you always head for experience? Maybe he's just a nice guy, wow, wouldn't hat be nice. Nice guys finish last you say, well not on Jan. 3rd! Where in the job description of President is, "The ability to give a 30 second sound bite?"

Those boo-birds: I found the jeering and cheering irritating even when they did it to Clinton. It was a CNN debate, not a boxing match, right?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

AB, Boise, ID — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:01:13 GMT

Hillary Planted Questions for her audience at events in IOWA. How do we know her staff didn't plant those BOO-ERS to scare off the other candidates? Why are the other Dems so intimidated by her?

I thought she did terrible again last night but the other candidates DID WORSE by not attacking her or by calling her out.

SHE COMPLETELY DODGED THE 1ST QUESTION! I was screaming, "She's doing it again and the others aren't calling her on it"

I'm sick of Edwards and any other Candidate saying, "They're happy to be here in Nevada" there are only 2 reasons anyone should be happy to be in Neveada. Gambling and a visit to the Moonlight Bunny Ranch.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

jerry/corpus christi texas — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:01:20 GMT

Hillary did great, she answered the questions, and she put on a strong game.

Pat, her game was about as strong as the Miami Dolphins.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Jose Menendez,Bethlehem, Pa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:02:54 GMT

A "swing and miss" ??????? Maybe a swing and dance ... When obama ask about Clinton about playing with the numbers ie.. only 6% of american are in the group that make over 97000.00 why did she dance around with issue,it seem clinton next stop should be on dancing with the stars.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Coby Hunt, Little Rock, Arkansas — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:03:00 GMT

Let's Cut to the chase! This is not about Clinton and Obama, this is about the next leader/President of the United States and I am tired of these debates being Clinton & Obama when neither one shows any kind of leadership, when they don't have a plan they attack Pres. Bush and they both side step every question in order to never be pin downed. How about we have a debate regarding the issues and not about gender, ex-presidents husbands past accomplishments and he said she said.( I could watch Jerry Springer for that crap)! Senator Biden and Governor Richardson far more represent the kind of President I seek. One who is deliberate, answers the questions with their proposed solution, and shuts up, like it not they have a plan and thats a start, and they don't mind sharing it. If you wish to have a President that will change their mind always, to blame others and to answer questions in generic terms then vote for the past, but if you wish for our country to move forward, be a leader and stand up to China, terriorist, border issues and Health Care then Biden or Richardson should both be President & Vice President.
No More Debates about the 3 losers ( Edwards, Obama & Clinton) lets grow up, answer the questions as a leader, not what I want to hear and take responsiblity! As for the media, you guys need to realize this is not a soap opera about the Southern, the Old and the Minority, it's about the right person for the job, no one is a front runner but Biden & Richardson, talk about them, do your job and report not create stories.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

jerry/corpus christi texas — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:03:21 GMT

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester,NY: '...I can't wait to see sierra's, and jerry's comments on Hillary's performance last night...'

Merle:

She did about as well as the New York Giants did against the Cowboys in the second half last Sunday.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

REG; East Valley Phx. AZ — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:03:39 GMT

The following is one reaction to the 11/15 Democratic debate and indicates what was perceived.

Clinton: Calculated and Cunning; didn’t win but maintained status quo; seems so hard to trust whatever she says, as if it is always just said for calculated affect.

Obama: Tentative and Unsure; may have lost some ground; usually seems more presidential but not this time.

Edwards: Aggressive and Measured; probably gained some; impresses with his ability to present his position and be direct to the point.

Bidden: Confident but Flippant; likely gained some; impressive positions but really needs to be more diplomatic.

Dodd: Assured and Strong; probably did the best job; but simply doesn’t impress as a real contender.

Richardson: Self Focused and Argumentative; had to lose ground; he is hard to seriously consider.

Kucinich: Disagreeable and Impertinent; the real looser; definitely not presidential.

‘Last Night’s Winner’: Bidden / Edwards.

I felt the debate format and the moderator were ‘clumsy’ and inhibited a better performance by the candidates. For the first several minutes everything seemed focused on Clinton and that also was an unnecessary distraction.

Just one person’s opinion.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

CitizenJ — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:05:31 GMT

By the way, is it just me or did Kucinich seem really pissed the whole night? I kept thinking he was going to jump over his podium and attack Wolf Blitzer.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Bob — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:09:12 GMT

During this entire primary process I have been dissatified by the choices. I wouldn't buy a used car from Hillary. Obama never seems to overcome doubts about his inexperience. Edwards, the first populist/ millionaire/lawyer president? I don't think so. Richardson can't speak in complete sentences.

What's surprising to me is Joe Biden. He continues to show himself the class of the field. I no longer consider him to be a wasted vote. He's won my support.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

James Beuford, Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:09:54 GMT

I have always been an Obama supporter...I changed my mind!

Clinton, who I never was a fan of knocked him out last night. Edwards was a pathetic, whiney, angery pompus jerk as usual and the rest..well were the rest.

Clinton took a hit last debate...She hit back last night!

The game is on, Hillary is turning up the hit and ready to fry these boys right off the stage.

You've got my vote now Hillary!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

one_voter — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:12:25 GMT

Am I the only one that despises how CNN setup this debate? A week of advertising that "this time, the gloves come off" with a boxing match metaphor, and then opening the debate with questions specifically designed to start the candidates off with commentary on each other?

This was then presented in post-debate analysis as the candidates going after each other... CNN created the situation. Once Wolf started asking questions about actual issues, the debate become productive. The first thirty minutes was completely wasted on questions designed to fulfull CNNs boxing metaphor. Disgraceful.

Also - in a yes-or-no question, 'No' will almost always be the short answer. Expecting someone to comment on a complex issue without providing context is simply ridiculous. I wasn't impressed with this debate format. The previous debate was much more useful.

That said, Biden is now on my radar following last night.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Jjudy,Spring, Tx — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:15:36 GMT

After reading the wonderful comments on Mr biden, why is anyone even talking about those other yahoos!!
I have voted for the "person" in all past campaigns so I have been all over the board....My husband as well, we both watched the debate and was so impressed with Jo biden, statesman and so much more knowledgeable than the top 3 put together. Why aren't you people behind the obvious "best leader" of the bunch...This just may be the year for us to get back on the democrat ticket...

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Dot, Illinois — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:17:13 GMT

As I read about the diamonds or pearls quesiton, I couldn't help remembering a similar incident during President Clinton's campaign when he was asked the quesiton "Boxers or briefs?" I guess the question to Senator Clinton could have been about briefs or bikinis??? So Silly. Rather odd that both husband should be asked such inane questions at their public appearances.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

DH, Bear Creek PA — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:18:21 GMT

I agree with one of the writers. Joe Biden is the only adult on the stage. We have already made plans that if Hilary Clinton is nominated we are moving to a third world country. Can you imagine, what might take place behind her desk in the oval office???? And she wants to be our President.... Anybody know of any land for sale???

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Sad Democrat, TN — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:18:41 GMT

Joe Biden is the Alan Keyes of the Democratic Party. He stands out in every debate as the seasoned and practical person who addresses the issues head on without trying to be politically correct. He clearly wins every debate.
Clinton is the most evasive politician I've seen in a long time that is using the media's backing of her "experience" to the max. Where is her experience? She has only held office about the same amount of time as Obama. If you count Obama's Illinois service, he is more expereinced.
Obama does come across as the least experienced in terms of debate experience. This hurts him, even though he doesn't pander as much as Clinton does.
Edwards has lost his stride and is being pushed to the point of irrelevance by the media.
The rest of the field is just striving against the wind.
If it were left up to the media, especially CNN, there would only be a debate between Obama and Clinton. Wolf Blitzer and Campbell Brown were pitiful in their attempts to twist the questions of the audience so blatantly to make Clinton's opponents look bad. And, the opening questions by Wolf Blitzer were as sorry an excuse of "professional" journalism as I've ever seen.
So, with CNN's and MSNBC's full support and use of every opportunity to try to make Clinton look the hero, she should have no problem winning the Democractic nomination. Too bad that their actions will result in defeat in the general election because the American public will not accept Hillary as a viable option.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark, IA — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:18:51 GMT

<<Obama sticking to his guns? You folks in the media are trying ever so hard to make this a race. Obama was a disaster last night. He had more waffles than a diner at breakfast. >>

You were watching CNN, right? In the couple instances he was given more than 2.7 seconds to speak, Obama never once wavered from anything he's said previously either at a debate, a town hall, or other speech he's made since his campaign began.

Clinton hasn't given a single response that she hasn't changed within 48 hours since the campaign began. Talk about waffling. She must be a stock holder in a company that makes flip flops.
Mike K, Denver (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:34 AM)

Mike are a blind puppet? Obama changed his positions 3 times this year on Social Security. If you are a Obama supporter who can read, you should go see the Obama campaign release on Oct 27th when he said no cap increase.

Also Obama was totally evasive on drivers license. Talk about lies.

Edwards is the best. Iowa will vote for him.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Richard, Washington State — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:20:55 GMT

What's the difference between a planted question and one from Campbell Brown?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Obama Supporter, Tulsa, OK — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:21:02 GMT

I will be waiting for Chris Matthew's and Keith Olberman's enlightening analysis of last night's debate. They can always add a touch of humor which makes this whole political process more palatable!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Tara — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:21:45 GMT

I have to start out by saying that Wolf Blitzer is a hack. Absolutely the worst moderator for a debate I have ever seen. And the questions, oh man, the questions! The best of the best questions came from the audience (except for the Hillary diamonds or pearls plant!). I think an audience of undecided voters asking questions is definitely the way to go in ALL of the debates- and how about giving the candidates an equal and reasonable amount of time to answer? We are asking these people for soundbites, not solutions! This is the presidency of the United States we are dealing with here, not student council president!

OBAMA '08!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Bee — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:23:00 GMT

Sara, Cedar Rapids, Iowa,

Your analysis was right on the money. CNN should be ban from organizing debate and wolf should be thrown out of Democratic debate. He is the most useless moderator i have ever seen.

The audience was rude and they don't seem to understand what is at stake in this election. Audience should allow candidates to differ on substance but not personal attack.

I suspect the folks that boo were all Hillary’s supporter. I sincerely believe they are all Clinton's plant.

CNN - Clinton News Network.

The worst debate ever. I prefer fox news to this stupid CNN.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Bruce Sanford, Raymond, Maine — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:24:20 GMT

I guess the next time I know someone who needs an abortion, I'll know to send them to CNN ... what a horror show ... the first 15 minutes was totally wasted lining up the candidates like Cheshire cats with their backs up for a photo shoot ... then Wolfie announced the clock rules had been canned, thereby forfeiting any element of control over the candidates' collective mouths ... the next 20 minutes was a scab fest free for all between Hillary, Borack, and Johnnie Boy, with nary a word from anyone else ... the next 40 minutes was soliloquizing in extraneous, wandering length by virtually everyone on stage, totally ignoring the need for concise and clear yes or no answers despite Wolfie's pleas ... interestingly, the very same Hillary who wandered all over the map a few weeks ago in the last debate was about the only one who tried to give succinct declarative answers in this debate, although Joe Biden did pretty well and has always impressed me as the real presidential timber in the group ... and the last 1/2 of the debate, which didn't start until 9:20 eastern time, only left 40 minutes for 1/2 the 2 hour total debate time and consisted of mostly inarticulate local citizens with no public speaking experience, some of whom could barely read, asking inane questions about such things as whether Hillary liked diamonds or pearls better ... give me a major break ... why the achingly lovely Campbell Brown left her upcoming anchor job at NBC to be a part of such a total meltdown and insult to viewers is beyond me, but she made her own bed ... unfortunately, the rest of us had to lie in it for 2 hours and it stunk to high heaven ... put Wolfie back in the Situation Room, lock the dang door, and get MSNBC and Chris Matthews and Tim Russert back on stage.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Dot, Illinois — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:25:14 GMT

REG... "impressive positions but really needs to be more diplomatic."
--------------------------------------------------
Are you speaking in terms of being more diplomatic at the debate or more diplomatic in general? This man heads the Foreign Relations Committee in Congress, has had personal consultations with President Musharraf of Pakistan,etc so I think his diplomatic skills in the area of relations with other countries are quite good.

if you meant he should have been more diplomatic at the debate, from what I read it was well into the debate before either he or Dodd, Richardson, or Kucinich were given the chance to speak, well that might make one a bit testy and less than diplomatic.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

sacky,j — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:26:17 GMT

I want to encourage everyone who has any doubts to get behind Jo Biden for the next President. In just a few minutes he stated more, knew more, was more Presidential than any of the others...It doesn't make sense to let the best canidate slip by when we so desperately need the BEST NOW because you dpn't think he can win....The best can win if we all put him on the front line where he should have been all along....why settle for thirds when we can have the best...He is so impressive and knowledgable..Just what is needed for foriegn policy.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Scott Edwards, Columbus OH — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:29:00 GMT

Dr. No?? Shouldn't that article be about Ron Paul? Hillary isn't a doctor and she has rarely said 'no' to the Bush White House. What a stupid subject for a paragraph, Go Ron Paul 2008

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

DH, Bear Creek PA — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:29:25 GMT

Was was my first blog.....

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

P Brown, OKC, OK — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:31:35 GMT

I'm so tired of these debates. You hear the same questions/answers. I watched about 15 mins and watched football and basketball games. CNN is definitely for Hillary and he is not good as a moderator. The best debate moderator thus far, Tim Russert. I can't believe that stupid hardball question from Campbell Brown to Hill about the gender card. Why didn't she ask Barack was it is like to not use the race card because it should be irrelevant as should the gender card. No more CNN debates. Get some good moderators.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Barbara Bee — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:32:18 GMT

LOOKIE HERE EVERYPNE. hillaryclinton.com

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

P Brown, OKC OK — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:33:59 GMT

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Anonymouse, Rolla, MO — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:34:37 GMT

"I have always been an Obama supporter...I changed my mind!

Clinton, who I never was a fan of knocked him out last night. Edwards was a pathetic, whiney, angery pompus jerk as usual and the rest..well were the rest.

Clinton took a hit last debate...She hit back last night!

The game is on, Hillary is turning up the hit and ready to fry these boys right off the stage.

You've got my vote now Hillary!

James Beuford, Iowa"

That's a 10 on the BS meter.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Susan — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:38:43 GMT

I would love to see Lou Dobbs run for president. He speaks for the people not special interests.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Jeff G., PA — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:40:47 GMT

"Perhaps the audience was booing the in-fighting that has begun to characterize these debates."

If that's the case, God help us all. Disagreements on policy and the questioning of one's commitment should take place at debates - if not there, where? It's sort of like saying boxers shouldn't hit each other during a boxing match ...

Besides, I'd rather candidates take on each other face to face instead of leaking "info" to Drudge, which has become Hillary's calling card of late ...

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Don, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:41:10 GMT

As a Democrat, I'm real concerned with the negative tone of these debate. At the end of this process we're all together, but our party for the first time is looking more fractured than the Republicans. I'm real frustrated, sadly, with Barack for the first time, has he finally figured out this is his last chance at national exposure before 2016? Key to our party's success next fall is presenting a united front to the GOP, something that they will not be able to do this time around. Unfortunately, the negative tone of recent debates could destroy that.

The counterpoint to the above argument is that we're an open society which fosters debate, this no one could disagree with. However, the tone of our debating process makes our party recently appear weak and negative, and we need be mindful of that.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Anonymouse, Rolla, MO — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:43:10 GMT

Well, well, well, turns out CNN forced the last question on the "diamonds or pearls" for Sen. Clinton (see thinkprogress.org), the student wanted to ask a more substantive questions.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

sacky,j — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:43:20 GMT

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark, IA — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:44:23 GMT

What's the difference between a planted question and one from Campbell Brown?
Richard, Washington State (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 12:20 PM)

Campbell is hotter:-)

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

SoCal for Edwards — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:45:31 GMT

Mark, IA- I hope your right about Iowa voting for Edwards. Even thought he lost a few steps last night, I still think he's the best. If you guys don't vote him to victory, it won't matter when CA has their Primary. He's here today walking the picket line at NBC Studios in Burbank with the striking writer's. More of that, John. Less negativity.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:45:36 GMT

CitizenJ (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:47 AM)

That dog won't hunt today.

When have the dedicated band of Hillary Haters ever been reasonable, including today?

With all due respect, any objective observer has to, however grudgingly and with whatever excuse/rationalization, admit that Clinton succeeded in counter punching effectively, tossing the driver's license/Illegal immigrant hot-potato into senator Obama's fumbling hands, (to RESOUNDING laughter twice!) which he promptly dropped, and reversed the media narrative of the past two weeks.

She smacked them down in the first fifteen minutes, and there wasn't a negative peep out of them for the rest of the evening.

Senator Obama's and senator Edwards' body language made you wish you could play high-stakes with them. Obama shaking his head while Hillary was talking will get more play during the next few days, but is universally known to be a no-no in a debate. His visible reaction to being laughed at made me feel for him and highlighted the fact that while a lawyer and guest lecturer in the law, he has no trial experience , (unlike Edwards and Clinton) to fall back on. Edwards frozen smile was less revealing but still a tell, that he was surprised to be on the defensive and seemed to lack a Plan B.

The reason why the consensus is that Clinton did very well last night, is simply because she did very well.

Van

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Karen, NYC — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:46:06 GMT

Looks like Billary hired a few fans to dominate the audience and they knew exactly how much to cheer and boo on her behalf. I wonder if Billary will be honest enough to admit not only does she have planted questions during her world tour but also have planted 'hired fans for a day' during the debate.

Regardless what Billary does she will still not get my vote... and from the reads on several message board she won't be getting many others... I hope Mr. Bill Clinton have more than 1 voters registration card....

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark, IA — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:46:58 GMT

The worst debate ever. I prefer fox news to this stupid CNN.

Bee (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 12:23 PM)

Bee, you are a republican. No need to shed crocodile tears and act as a democrat:-)

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

ObamaOrEdwards — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:48:24 GMT

I thought the debate was biased toward Clinton. What a lot of you Clinton supporters don't realize is that we... and i mean we Dem supporters of Obama & Edwards are not going to vote for Hillary. You guys are making a miscalculation. We are not going to fall inline and vote for her. Last nights debate solidified it for me. She cant bring the country together, she cant bring democrat's together... she isn't the right person that we need to take America into the future.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Jack — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:57:16 GMT

"Diamond v. Pearl" Student Blasts CNN

The UNLV student who asked Hillary Clinton whether she preferred "diamonds or pearls" at last night's debate wrote on her MySpace page today that CNN forced her to ask the frilly question instead of a pre-approved query about the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository.

"CNN ran out of time and used me to "close" the debate with the pearls/diamonds question. Seconds later this girl comes up to me and says, "you
gave our school a bad reputation.' Well, I had to explain to her that every question from the audience was pre-planned and censored. That's what
the media does. See, the media chose what they wanted, not what the people or audience really wanted. That's politics; that's reality. So, if you want to read about real issues important to America--and the whole world, I suggest you pick up a copy of the Economist or the New York Times or
some other independent source. If you want me to explain to you how the media works, I am more than happy to do so. But do not judge me or my
integrity based on that question."

In a separate post, Luisa provides the question she wanted to ask:

Yucca Mountain, NV is the proposed site for the country's nuclear waste repository. Despite scientific evidence that it is a vulnerable site, the federal government continues to push for the plan to move forward. The evidence relied on is unsound and the risks involved in transporting high-level
radioactive waste across the country are high. What will you [Sen. Clinton] do to ensure that the best site/s is/are chosen for the storage of spent
nuclear reactor fuel?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

pat huntington ny — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:57:51 GMT

Hillary killed them all! She'll do the same with the republican nominee! She's answering the questions directly and to my satisfaction. She'll be a great president...you all just wait and see!

Jerry - I will no longer respond to you posts. And I just hope others follow my lead.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

James, College Park, MD — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:02:24 GMT

What a horrible job by CNN and Wolf Blitzer. I have never seen a crowd out of control and hooked up to the mic like that. Where are the hard follow up questions Wolf? Diamonds and Pearls--what a joke. So unprofessional. How did the the people who attend get to attend: curiously, it was overty stocked with Clinton supporters who were allowed to hoot and holler and change the dynamic of the debate. Obama and Bide, as usual, rose above the pack. Clinton was exposed by Obama when she tried twisting the numbers around tryin to make Obama's tax increase sound like it was on middle America--when Obama called her out on it and she came back with a bunch of unrelated pre-programed political nonsense, it was clear what she's about.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Dennis, Palm Desert, CA — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:04:52 GMT

After hearing all the candidates, I feel the most qualified and honest is Joe Biden. He has shown in the senate that he can work with both parties.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Chris, San Jose, California — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:06:10 GMT

Obama was very disappointing. His attack on Clinton fell flat and he waffled and fumbled on immigration and security questions- issue of grave importance to the voters. He also could not remain calm under the slightest crticism and kept rising from his chair or interrupting Clinton ad once got booed by the audience for doing just that. Obama is going to see his numbers go down in the next week.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mike K, Denver — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:07:11 GMT

<<Mike are a blind puppet? Obama changed his positions 3 times this year on Social Security. If you are a Obama supporter who can read, you should go see the Obama campaign release on Oct 27th when he said no cap increase.>>

I have never seen the phrase "everything's on the table" to mean anything more than "I'm still studying it and will have a plan soon" statement. This is not waffling or flip flopping when Obama does it, when Clinton does it, or anyone else other than George Bush. When Bush does it, it's an attempt to push the subject to the side.

What Obama has done with the statement is to take the time to figure out what needed to be done for SS. Now that he has adopted his policy, it is set in stone for him. It is the right way and, in his opinion, best way to do it. Right or wrong, he's adopted his stance and is unwavering from it.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

threeriverscrossing, Raleigh, North Carolina — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:11:44 GMT

When it comes to answers about foreign policy, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Mexico, and moral leadership in the world, it is Richardson and Biden who make the most sense of it all. Their answers resonate with experience and know how while the rest of the leading candidates sound shallow and by the campaign's playbook attack tactics. I think the Democratic Party as a whole is selling themselves short by going with Clinton, Obama and Edwards. For me, Richardson's diplomatic vision for the Middle East makes the most sense to end the geo-political religious conflicts and his answers on how to deal with illegal immigration seem pragmatic and from experience not from a ideological and rigid perspective. Richardson paints a vision where each policy piece has a place and a pragmatic relationship to one another. Biden's easily grasps the complexity of the world and U.S. policy in way the problems are mapped by understanding coupled with wisdom. It will be a sad statement about the democratic party if Richardson and Biden are not at the top of the ticket and a glorious position for the GOP in 2008. Richardson and Biden would be the sure bets while Clinton, Obama and Edwards are risky as too liberal in domestic affairs and too inexperienced in foreign policy. It's not rocket science - go figure?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:11:47 GMT

".....It wasn't the knock out I'd hoped for....
But, it wasn't a Clinton victory ....."

Ha Ha Ha Ha Sierra...........what debate where YOU watching? It sure wasn't the one that everybody else saw!
Obama got THUMPED last night, not once but four (4) times!
Hillary made him look like a buffoon by pointing out he opposed universal healthcare.
She also took him to task for his Neo-Con tactics, and brought attention to the fact that he and Edwards are attacking her because she's the front runner.
Furthermore, Obama absolutely could not articulate a simple yes or no answer to Blitzer's immigrations question, after lambasting Hillary for the very same thing two weeks ago!
I'm sorry Sierra, but you either didn't see the same debate we were all watching last night, or you were hittin' on the crack pipe again, and it caused you to halucinate.
HIILARY RULED, OBAMA DROOLED, AND EDWARDS WAS COMPLETELY FOOLED!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Lauren Hallahan, Clearwater, FL — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:12:16 GMT

Hey Chuck and company....what debate were you watching? Wolfie...took more time than candiates!
Hillary was given a pass on the driver license, as Spitzer backed away...and removed it from the hillary table....OBAMA SAID YES TO DRIVER LICENSES FOR ILLEGALS! Did you miss that? Obama was terrible last night....Edwards was so so....but Wolfie cuts him off...as Biden and Dodd kept speaking. Kucinich got 5min!!! In a two hour debate. He voted against the WTO and NAFTA, against the Patriot Act, against the WAR! He had the correct vote, and does not spend time saying sorry...or he learned....like the REST! You are nothing but a propaganda machine...helping Hillary clean up her mistake, while others cannot talk...BUSH , CLINTON , MEDIA , ARE...OUR EMEMIES!!!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Pbrown — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:14:59 GMT

Wolf Blitzer is one of the reasons I no longer watch CNN…I use to really enjoy this station until it became a sophicated version of FOX NEWS… What are they pro Hilary… First the Sanchez Person continuously worked the Senior Citizen Woman and John McCain Story… WHO Cares…? And what hard questions did Blitzer and his team asks Hillary…. Campbell Brown, thank God she’s no longer with the NBC Company… She looked like she was applying for a job at FOXNOISE…CNN had an agenda… Fair and Balance, just as Chris Matthew would say HA! This station no longer has the credibility it once had when there were shows like Inside Politics with Judy Woodruff and Bernard Shaw; I prefer Aaron Brown over Campbell Brown and who said we wanted two hours Anderson Cooper … and Larry King “Marie Osmond’s teenage son” need I say more.

It you want fair and balance you can find it on MSNBC… Chris Matthew is as balance as you can get… Keith Olberman gives his Liberal point of view, although at times, I think he gives more favorable coverage to the Clintons than of any other Democratic Candidate. Live with Dan Abrams is a man who is not afraid to bring on opinions from both sides…and then there is Morning Joe… Joe Scarborough can be a little brutal at times but you have to love his two companions Mika and Willie…. My DVR is set to record them every morning so when I wake up I can get an update of what’s going on…. If you want fair and balance even when it comes down to Debates, MSNBC/NBC is your place…

The only thing I watch on CNN is Reliable Source with Howard Kurtz… But my political shows I watch and record on Sundays are Meet the Press and This Week with George Stephanopoulos, “George Will” you have love and respect him and I am a Democrat…

In my opinion, CNN doesn’t carry the same credibility as it use to not even on its website… And their ROWDY Debate atmosphere showed it.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:16:40 GMT

".....Merle: She did about as well as the New York Giants did against the Cowboys in the second half last Sunday.
jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 12:03 PM....."

jerry.....I'm a Patriots fan
They beat Dallas, as I recall.
(smile)

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:18:21 GMT

Anybody keeping score? I think blaming CNN is in the lead going into the far turn. Fun Watcher is probably on their 2nd bag of popcorn and 2nd six-pack of pop by now...

Van

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mike K, Denver — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:18:40 GMT

Van;

The only reason Hillary looked remotely "good" last night is because the entire debate came off as a Saturday Night Live sketch done during the writer's strike. Last night should not be taken seriously by anyone seriously involved with or that follows politics.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Yog Goel — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:21:04 GMT

I have a question for media Pundits regarding last night debate.

In previous debate when Obama said that he will negotiate not only with friends but enemies including Iran also. At that time Hillary jumped on Obama for not negotiating with enemy or Iran blamed him for not having foreign policy experience.

In last night debate when Hillary said the same, on one from media jumped on her and criticized.

Why????

Is this debate was only to bring Hillary back? If so then it is a bad politics and I will never vote for her.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Chuck Miller — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:21:30 GMT

Last night CNN really did prove it's the Clinton News Network. It got the word from the Wolfson and got in line.

Thank God for MSNBC.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Sierra, SF — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:22:10 GMT

REG; East Valley Phx:

Good post, REG

'...Clinton: Calculated and Cunning; didn’t win but maintained status quo; seems so hard to trust whatever she says, as if it is always just said for calculated affect...'

Her backer are exulting because she didn't implode
Talk about setting the bar low

'...Obama: Tentative and Unsure; may have lost some ground; usually seems more presidential but not this time...'

I was glad he stuck to his position on IDs
Shows convictions and strength
Is debating a mesure of fitness for the PResidency ?

'...Edwards: Aggressive and Measured; probably gained some; impresses with his ability to present his position and be direct to the point...'

This is why I'm switching to Edwards
He's more assertive and a populist

'...Bidden: Confident but Flippant; likely gained some; impressive positions but really needs to be more diplomatic...'

so people say
I'm not THAT IMPRESSED with him
But, he would do as a candidate or a VP

'...Dodd: Assured and Strong; probably did the best job; but simply doesn’t impress as a real contender...'

I'd say it's the first four contenders
forget Dodd and Richardson

'...Richardson: Self Focused and Argumentative; had to lose ground; he is hard to seriously consider...'

Run for the Senate, Bill !!

'...Kucinich: Disagreeable and Impertinent; the real looser; definitely not presidential...'

No chance, but a conscience on the war
A little far out

'...‘Last Night’s Winner’: Bidden / Edwards.

I felt the debate format and the moderator were ‘clumsy’ and inhibited a better performance by the candidates. For the first several minutes everything seemed focused on Clinton and that also was an unnecessary distraction.

Just one person’s opinion...'

By being evasive and dishonest, Clinton was the long term loser.
A good debater, a good campaigner....
What does she stand for ??

. AZ

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

bec — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:29:04 GMT

From the debates and other sources of info i am discovering what i want in a president.....i want a person who did not grow up priviledged.... a person who has grown up in the face of struggles and seen and APPRECIATED the values of overcoming struggles,... a person who has made mistakes and publically learned from them, ...a person who has formed relationships with close friends and family members and understood the value of those relationships, ...a person who understands the idea of sharing and wasn't the bully, or trouble maker on the playground,... a person who played on a team and learned the value of TEAMWORK, ...a person who is EDUCATED, ...a person who hasn't been playing political games,... a person who listens with ears and eyes and processes the ideas of others and is strong enough to reach out to those that disagree and find a way to embrace them... i want to choose a person for president who has those qualities, so i can sleep at night knowing the person in charge of our nation has HAS THE MORAL FIBER AND COURAGE TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT ARE GOOD FOR HUMANITY ......that's what i want and what i am looking for in the words of our presidential candidates while they debate.......Barack has something in his spirit and manner that makes me believe he is compassionate and motivated by the needs of people around him and a good choice for our country and other countries.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Ken Collins/ Wagoner, Oklahoma74467 — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:31:21 GMT

The debate moderators were so obviously afer Sen Obama, Wolf was tryng his best to get a slap at Obama, but was not in the senators realm !!!
Susan Malvo was so into Hillary , maybe they met after the debate finished.
Hillary had to skip rope again, and she is not any good if she is thrown off balance.
It seems to me that there could be some racial problems with these stations that are running the debates, I see their all over plan is to demean Sen. Obama, but they just can't get the job done!!!!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

CitizenJ — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:34:01 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 12:45 PM)

I don't recall saying that she didn't do well. In fact, I didn't comment on her performance at all. I also don't recall Obama being laughed at. Clinton didn't "toss the driver's license/Illegal immigrant hot-potato" into anyone's hands. She refused to give a yes/no answer to that question for two weeks until the same day Gov. Spitzer said he was dropping it (coincidence?). Obama said that he is for it, as he did on the 30th. He also said he is not proposing that we do it as a first option, but that he agrees that it is something he would do. It's like saying "I'm pro-choice, but I'm not proposing we go out and advertise getting abortions." A pretty simple concept.

I agree that Obama shouldn't have been shaking his head, but when someone is accusing your plan of creating a billion dollar tax hike on the middle-class, it makes me wonder who is the one slinging mud. If you make over $97,000, you aren't in the middle class (with the exception of a few cities). And I agree with him - that sounded like something a Republican would use.

I laughed when Kucinich attacked Edwards out of nowhere and Edwards wasn't ready for it.

My problem isn't with people thinking Clinton did well last night. Putting aside the fact that anything better than the last debate would have been good for her, I do think she did well. I also think Obama made some good points, as well as Biden. The problem is that people aren't watching these debates to find out where candidates stand on any particular issue. They watch so they can have something to use on these boards. Instead of taking this election seriously as the most crucial juncture in our history that could alter our future (and our survival as a nation) forever*, we are talking about pants suits, diamonds/pearls, sound bytes, and pundit spin.

These debates change nothing where their stands on policy are concerned. They simply create more reality TV for people to talk about until November, when someone will inevitably be elected, and we will go about our lives until the 2010 mid-term elections.

I know that is just the system now, and make no mistake: it is broken. The point of my earlier post was simply to point out that what happens in the debate is simply for our entertainment. Our lives will be basically the same in 2009, -10, -11 as they are now. It will take more than any one of these candidates to turn around the mindset of a country that is more like a college football game than anything resembling a united nation. I apologize for the length of this post.

*I've got more on this if you are interested.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

IRF, Tucson, AZ — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:37:28 GMT

The more I see of Biden, the more I think he is the best choice.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

roni — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:44:56 GMT

Human rights and national security are complementary. Obama was the only one to get it right. If we neglect human rights (ie torture and secret prisons led by us) then our national security is threatened. Go Obama, Go!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Anonymous Cadiz, Kentucky 42211 — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:47:20 GMT

Clinton was surely the winner last night; Obama was as usual, weak on all replies. Sen. Biden the most poised and seems the most relaxed; I was surprised at the lack of Health Care question. Maybe it is so bad no one wants to even talk about it. The perfect combination, Clinton & Biden.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Stormy Malone, Indianapolis, Indiana — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:50:32 GMT

CNN really blew it. Wolf Blitzer and John Roberts let things become chaotic.

The crowd, clearly packed with Hillary Clinton supporters, bordered on rude. Childish Clinton supporters loudly booed Obama and Edwards when they pointed out weaknesses in Clinton's positions. Glad lots of people are jumping on the booing thing.

Trailer-park tacky, is about all that can be said about booing.

Even from the start of the squaring off between the candidates, hecklers were in evidence, as Clinton supporters, unchecked by Blitzer or the other CNN moderators, freely shouted catcalls at Obama.

Why Blitzer didn't take some command of the audience is hard to understand. A few words about etiquette would have gone a long way.

Following the debate, a CNN pundit panel was composed of two former Bill Clinton staffers and one republican, J.C. Watts. The spin coming from the pundits was astounding

'm a democrat and it's quite alarming to see a network so in the pocket of a candidate. In addition to Obama and Edwards, Biden (don't dismiss this guy!) and Dodd had good performances, but CNN's panel is much too obvious in its dismissal of everyone but Hillary.

How could CNN allow the audience to openly boo the candidates without reproach?

What a failure of civility. Clinton supporters should know better. To boo someone for disagreeing with your candidate is the height of the politics of destruction. No wonder Obama looked so shocked. He should have been. I was.

This debate and the performance of "the Clinton camp" has convinced me, a life-long democrat, that I will never, under any circumstances, vote for Hillary Clinton. She represents everything about politics that needs to change in this country.

And CNN is the epitome of what's wrong with the news media. It's all showbiz, baby, for them…

In short, what was Hillary Clinton's response to opposition? Rather than debating intellectually, she figuratively stuck out her tongue at the big bad bullies. And CNN seems to think that's a winning strategy. Amazing.

Oh, poor old Hillary. Boohoo.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:53:29 GMT

The huge difference between the Clinton supporters here and the Hillary haters is that the Clinton people do not see her as some kind of saint, or another Lincoln, or infallible, just as the person best able to lead the country out of the ditch the republicans have driven the ship of state into. They all have no problem saying they will vote for the democratic nominee, because they are true-blue democrats, who realize that any democrat in the White House would be preferable to any Republican.
I know that there are many supporters of the other candidates who feel the same, I am only addressing the "I will never vote for Clinton", Hillary hater, so-called democrats, who delude themselves in their blind hatred to believe that another four years of Republican rule would somehow be better than a Clinton presidency .
You are wrong. You are being selfish. You could, "Nader", the election in the republican's favor. Your spite could be responsible for continuing the policies and practices that have made us a World-wide pariah and fractured this Nation. I can only hope for our country's sake that your love of your country trumps your hatred of Hillary if she is the democratic nominee.

Van

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

SR, New Hampshire — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:01:20 GMT

Can I just ask one question?

Why is Joe Biden not in the lead in any of the polls? I live in NH, and do not yet support any candidate fully, but anyone watching any of the debates thus far would have a hard time arguing that Biden hasn't beaten everyone else by leaps and bounds. His answers, for what screen time he gets, appear to be honest positions on how he feels (uncalculated, direct, convicted).

No primaries have been held yet, so why is it that each candidate does not get the same amount of time in these debates?

Let's not fool each other, America is run by the Media, and shame on us for letting this happen. I am more concerned about the future of my daughter and what choices are going to be made for her by our future president - I am NOT concerned with who would be better for ratings.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Kim, Denver, Colorado — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:03:05 GMT

What I find completely nauseating was the fawning, pro-Clinton post debate 'analysis' from longtime Clinton acolyte James Carville. He was not acting with neutrality. I am so done with him.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

threeriverscrossing, Raleigh, North Carolina — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:05:43 GMT

Lou Dobbs's is a bit phoney and an alarmist for ratings. The airline industry currently needs a better ID authentication system for security, regardless of this issue.

We can all agree to some degree that illegal immigrants do not deserve entitlements to social services and the law of the land need to be enforced, in saying that, requiring all non-citizens and citizens alike to have valid driver's licenses has been statically proven to increase more insured drivers and improved public safety on the roads.

The driver license is just one tool to manage the many problems caused by illegal Immigration but the root cause of illegal immigration is economic in nature and is fueled by the U.S. government's weak relationship to the government of Mexico and the rest of Latin America to address this very issue and associated root causes. Illegal immigration is a symptom of a greater problem. So what do our American Leaders to do, ignore the problem.

However, illegal immigration needs to be handled by emotional sober approach or the cost to the tax payer will be mis-managment and cost over-runs to fix the problem throughout the issue's life cycle. (sound familiar?)

Lou Dobbs and others with influence are just raising the ire of people and offering no plan how to pay for the cost of deportation at the expense of flag waving or media ratings. So we will have campaign of ranting and raving at the symptom and flag saluting with our backs turned towards the problem. Whatever happened to objective critical thinking in journalism these days? Who said journalists can get emotionally involved in the story and forgo their voice of objectivity?

I will stick with AP for real journalism, they at least get both sides of the story right, e.g., stories ramping up America to invade Iraq.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Susan Wilson, Charlotte, NC — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:08:22 GMT

It should be clear to voters by now that Joe Biden is the most experience candidate to be president. No one has more foreign policy experience than he does. He even has a plan for dealing with Pakistan while Bush is clueless! We desperately need him in the White House. He is our hope to get the country back on track.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:12:38 GMT

"I agree that Obama shouldn't have been shaking his head, but when someone is accusing your plan of creating a billion dollar tax hike on the middle-class,"
CitizenJ (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 1:34 PM)"

It was when she said that he was leaving 15 million uninsured with his universal health plan.

I suggest that you review the part you missed as Obama reacted visibly to being laughed at. It is during his ramble on what was supposed to be one of his major points against Hillary (drivers license) , yet his answer prompted Blitzer to lament that he was under the impression that the question lent itself to a less protracted answer. You will probably have many opportunities to see it on the news channels doing post-postmortems on the debate.

If you don't want the candidates to face each other in debates, what do you propose in their place? I don't think I can speak for the reasons why people watch and how they perceive them but I don't think you can either.

I think that watching how they interact and deal with questions, the hot lights, and the audience reveals things that go far beyond what can be learned from canned interviews, stump speeches and websites, things about their personalities that they cannot hide, that is the most important reason for the debates.

J, you know that there were so many here predicting the end for Hillary, so many news outlets claiming she was damaged by the last debate and, "slipping". There was blood in the water, and she came up big when she had too, with everyone watching. Give the lady a little credit...:)

Van

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mariann Pepitone — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:14:15 GMT

its CLINTON ALL THE WAY and no matter how many comments you make about her she will win the nomination for president and possibly the presidency. Then you can get drunk all night or bite your nails to a frazzle. Then Obama and Edwards ship will sink and we will be rid of them. We won't have to hear their mouths anymore. I hope that Bill Clinton campaigns with her in the primaries which should give her a good lift percentage wise.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mike K, Denver — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:18:44 GMT

<<The huge difference between the Clinton supporters here and the Hillary haters is that the Clinton people do not see her as some kind of saint, or another Lincoln, or infallible, just as the person best able to lead the country out of the ditch the republicans have driven the ship of state into. They all have no problem saying they will vote for the democratic nominee, because they are true-blue democrats, who realize that any democrat in the White House would be preferable to any Republican.
>>

The issue, Van, is that you Clinton supporters do see her as infallible. See when she switched positions twice in a 90 second span at the Philadelphia debate on the DLs for illegal immigrants. Look at how she's totally mishandled answering anything on Social Security. You guys are totally ok and rallying about how great last night's debate was from an aesthetic perspective, including the crowd. Those things don't make you look any better than anyone else posting--pro- or anti-Hillary.

Clinton supporters look at last night and see sweet victory instead of what it was--a network playing for ratings at the expense of our political process. It was a debate for President, not a performance by Blue Man Group for people to be cheering at. The fact that you supporters of Hillary are ok with that is what has the rest of us seething.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Ellis B. Kingman, Az. — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:18:47 GMT

While many democrats seek to make a statement by supporting a woman for president, they have choosen the wrong woman and republicans are jumping with joy. Can you not just imagine a full review of the Clinton Presidency which rivals that of Bush in scandals and secrecy. Can you not envision the "Willie Horton revolving door" type ads showing criminal fugitives , known drug smugglers, chinese government officials and wives of FBI fugitives walking into the Clinton White House with brief cases of campaign money. Not to mention the rentals of Lincolns' bedroom and Airforce One for campaign money. If one were to look closely, the only real differences between Bush and Hillary is she is a woman and a self proclaimed " New" democrat (socialist in disguise). Go ahead democrats give republicans a gift.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

kathe oakland ca — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:20:24 GMT

Last nights' debate was so full of it that it lead me 35 minutes into it to go to my computer games and play Wheel of Fortune.
CNN should be ashamed for allowing the audience to disrespect candidates with the hissing and booing as they did - saying nothing period. Even the other candidates didn't have the balls to speak out against this type of behavior....Hillary, your folks are not true patroits to perform in this manner. But hey This is Las Vegas, everything goes, and I do know what I am talking about as I was a citizen of Vegas for over 5 years and nothing is sacred except the casinos!!!
BOO BOO to CNN and those in charge, for allowing this behavior to occur let along saying absolutely NOTHING. But then we all know CNN and FOX are Hillary folks. Look at the air time she gets nightly, I am fed-up with CNN I have been a faithful viewer until this campaign and see just how biased you folks are.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:21:59 GMT

How funny. When the moderators ask questions designed to instigate negative responses regarding Hillary, they are fabulous! But when they turn up the heat on anyone else, shame on them!

Unreal.

BTW...thanks for the compliment, Mark. And she did look awfully presidential in her asbestos suit, didn't she?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Joey, Cedar Rapids — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:23:53 GMT

Why do people not see that Joe Biden is hands down the most qualified candidate at every debate, including the republican ones. Every answer that the candidates give begins with “Joe is right” or “I agree with Joe”. Wake up people!

Chris, Parker, CO

Don't worry people do see that he is. In October more letters to the editor were published in the Cedar Rapids Gazette (the 2nd largest paper in IA) supporting Biden than any other candidate.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:28:43 GMT

"It looks like, today, it’s a three way dead heat – Clinton, Obama and Edwards.

I think the national polls are meaningless; Iowa is a huge importance to whoever wins, because if you win that on January 3rd, five days later you go to New Hampshire with momentum."

Tim Russert 11/16/07

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:31:09 GMT

Dot:

I would never attempt to predict what can happen in Iowa. That being said, I don't think it's all about Clinton, Obama and Edwards. While it would take a REALLY big push for any of the others to break through and have a great showing here, I don't think it is impossible.

My family is composed entirely of registered Republicans. I'm the "black sheep" so to speak, and it is their most fond wish that I will wake from my liberal-school induced brainwashing and realize that I am destined to be a Republican. At any rate, several members of my family have said to me that they respect Biden and, while they don't necessarily agree with him, wouldn't have a problem with him being elected. Now, the odds of any of them voting for Biden, much less caucusing for him, are slim to none...but at least he does not rouse a lot of negative feelings in them the way the big 3 do.

Sara always seems to have her finger on the pulse of the caucus scene, so maybe she can chime in here. Same with Molly.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

mary Davenport Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:32:32 GMT

"Joe Biden was excellent. I was the most impressed with him, and sadly enough he just doesn't have the money or the means to take a lead in the polls. Hopefully that might change come Iowa, but I'm not holding my breath. * * * So, to me the winners last night were Hillary and Biden, with Biden being the most impressive, and then Obama and Edwards, with Edwards behind because he was shunted off to the side away from Hillary.

Mendicant, Bettendorf, Iowa"

Mendicant the beauty of Iowa being first is that money doesn't control the outcome. Since at least 1988 with the exception of 2000(Gore)the candidate who won a contested Democratic caucus has not been the candidate with the most money. Go to the caucus bring a friend, or as many as you can get to skip the bowl game and caucus for Joe, and on 1/4/08 you'll see a whole new race, with money following into his campaign. People want an alternative to Hillary, and Joe Biden is not only the alternative he is the one democratic candidate who would be unstoppable in the general!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

mary Davenport Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:34:28 GMT

Dot, Illinois

The race in Iowa is still very wide open! Biden is very much still in the race. Have faith!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Richard, Washington State — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:36:08 GMT

Kim, Denver:

You just now noticed that about Carville?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:39:56 GMT

".....I have to start out by saying that Wolf Blitzer is a hack. Absolutely the worst moderator for a debate I have ever seen. And the questions, oh man, the questions!....."
Tara (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 12:21 PM)

Tara, don't blam Wolf Blitzer because your boy couldn't formulate a simple yes or no answer to a question. That isn't Blitzer's fault, Obama should be more prepared. He's been screaming like a banchie for two weeks about the driver's license thing, and when he gets asked a question about immigrations he can't give a simple yes or no answer.....? Seems to me that Lil' Barracky, and his mindless flock of "sheeple" got a good dose of their own medicine last night.
Hillary really put it to him with regard to him & Edwards acting like Republicans, and Obama being AGAINST universal healthcare.
She made him look like a fool when she said they weren't attacking her because she's a woman, they are attacking her because she's the front runner!
Face facts and stop "spitting into the wind."
Obama isn't going anywhere. He has shown that when you get beyond his neo-con rancor and rhetoric, and his personal attacks against a fellow Democrat, he has absolutely NOTHING to offer as President.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Rob, Cedar Rapids, Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:40:17 GMT

I still say watch Edwards and Biden out of Iowa.

This race can still get turned on it's head.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:43:31 GMT

Joe Biden would be OK except his record of plagarism and foot in the mouth disease is not good, especially if you are a person of color. Joe Biden seems to have some old views when it comes to black people. He just can't always control himself.
P Brown, OKC OK (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 12:33 PM)

What record of plagiarism? If you mean the law school thing, the Delaware Supreme Court reviewed any questions of plagiarism from his law school days and determined that Biden had not violated any rules. If you mean the speech in which he did not attribute a quote - well, given the frantic pace of these events and speeches, it's not suprising that such a thing would happen on occasion. Incidentally, he had credited the author of the words he quoted correctly on all other occasions. I think everyone is entitled to a mistake.

Where is your evidence that he has "old" views when it comes to African Americans? And please also tell me when you think he has not been able to control himself?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

CitizenJ — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:44:47 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 2:12 PM)

Credit? I said she did well. That's about all I can give :)

I don't think having the debates is bad. They have to face each other and answer questions. We have to see how they perform. I do think it would be better to have 3 or 4 candidates on stage at once instead of 7, especially at this point in the race. But the problem isn't whether or not we have the debates, it is the mindset of our country. On almost every issue, if you have an opinion on it, you are automatically an outcast or an enemy to half of the nation. That being said, the debates are all about entertainment. I should probably be clear here: I'm talking about people like you and me - those who voluntarily log onto poltical blogs everyday; those who are genuinely interested in it. The vast majority of people on this blog won't be phazed by what happens in any of these debates (excluding certain independents). We have chosen our candidates and that is that. I used the college football rivalry analogy earlier: If you aren't on my team then you are despised and we will take pleasure in your demise. That is the feeling of a lot of people here. And yes I can speak for them because that is all you read here (for the most part).

As for the average citizen, they see this [expletive] and they stop caring. I know this because I have studied it and I enjoy observing the intricasies of our society. Civic participation, voter turnout is low, not simply because our Congressmen/women suck, but because they don't care about politics. They just want someone to fix their problems. And when the political class around the nation holds back their vomit when they hear a proposal from somone just because they are a member of the other party, people get sick of it. I know am sick of it.

That is what this election is about. It's not about tax increases or gay marriage. Nobody is going to get anything (meaningful) accomplished unless the can heal the mental divide that exists not necessarily between society as a whole, but between the two political parties in Washington. Honestly, I don't think any of these candidates can turn it around. But because I'm not completely pessimistic, I do have hope that someone can at least make progress in the right direction. I happen to think that Barack Obama is the most capable of doing that. And sitting on the couch watching the debate as an average citizen, I'm not convinced about most of what the candidates say because I know 2 minutes after the debate is over, one channel will be talking about how well Clinton did. Another channel will be talking about how bad she did. Another will be saying she said this, but meant that. I've watched and studied politics for quite some time, and I can barely keep the issues straight sometimes. How is the average citizen supposed to do it?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:50:53 GMT

Instead of taking this election seriously as the most crucial juncture in our history that could alter our future (and our survival as a nation) forever*, we are talking about pants suits, diamonds/pearls, sound bytes, and pundit spin.
CitizenJ (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 1:34 PM)

Amen to that, J.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Dot, Illinois — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:51:03 GMT

Carrie and Mary

Thanks for the insight. In some ways I envy those of you in Iowa who will soon have the opportunity to actually do something other than read and write about the candidates.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:51:14 GMT

Carrie,

I appreciate that you used the term "suit." "Pantsuit" is what we in the language biz call a weak term.

Just as too many adjectives or adverbs in a rhetorical piece demonstrate anxiety, insecurity, on the part of the presenter, there are terms like leisure suit and hearing aid that make one pause for a different reason.

Like wondering what the use of an anachronistic term may represent. Are they a little behind the zeitgeist... or just forgetful in their mature years?

Not that there is anything inherently wrong with any of those terms... except they weaken the subliminal impact of the argument or presentation.

Women and men wear pants with dignity and elegance, if the suit fits.

Hillary's suit fits.

BTW, I did not appreciate snarky comments about her weight and "butt" on the thread today.

Funny? No.
Crude. Yes.

Thanks for hanging in here.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

mike, chicago — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:56:35 GMT

"Joe Biden is the Alan Keyes of the Democratic Party. He stands out in every debate as the seasoned and practical person who addresses the issues head on without trying to be politically correct. He clearly wins every debate.

Sad Democrat, TN "

I'm sure you meant this as a compliment, but Alan Keyes?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

wendell j evans — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:03:26 GMT

Ok can we be serious for a moment what great experience did Bill, Bush, Regan,and Carter have other then begin a Governor. Now Hillary tell us America know her record of thirty five years of service what service we know her as the First Lady and that is it. If our battle cry is give us somebody with experience then we must lift up the banner of Biden. But if we are truly concern about a new direction for this country then Hillary is not the answer. This was suppose to be a debat about issues,and character every time Hillary felt pressure she would throw the red flag call foul and want to talk only about Bush and for party unity. Then why have a debate this our time to question our Democratic Candidates about how they plan to lead us in the next 8 years then after we choose our nominee we can all hold the banner of that person and have party unity. I like ideal that Obama has taught Constitutional Law after all is not our whole way of life base on the Constitution

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:05:14 GMT

Precisely, Citizen J

Spot on.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:31:56 GMT

"Instead of taking this election seriously as the most crucial juncture in our history that could alter our future (and our survival as a nation) forever*, we are talking about pants suits, diamonds/pearls, sound bytes, and pundit spin.
CitizenJ (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 1:34 PM)

Amen to that, J."

Carrie,

Your 2:50 post is a tribute to CitizenJ's post(s) of the day. He is hot today and every one of his offerings are superb!

In my work, however, all I can see after awhile... trends, slap downs, sound bytes and spin.

That's why I need First Read for my own nutrition (strange but true).

As nuts as some of these folks are (myself included, I guess), they care. There are a few for whom the numbers mean something they don't mean to the players, but most of the folks here are passionate.

Sadly, right now, it comes down to infinitesimally small points of momentum... Iowa has always been the craps-shoot and Obama's smart inner move (remember this game is multiple level chess and what we see on the screen and in print is just level one) makes it all the more so.

Now everything counts, everyone waits in earnest for the savior to emerge or, more malevolently, for the favorite to fall.

It is not anything like the pure Aristotelian Republic nor does it have much in common with the precepts of true democracy... it is American, it is shallow, it is owned and operated by capitalist behemoths... and up until 7 years ago it worked well enough...

This is indeed a still point in American history... the gods themselves hold their breath.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Sara, Cedar Rapids, Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:35:49 GMT

Dot-

Senator Biden has a lot of support in Iowa. According to what Chuck Todd said earlier today on MSNBC, Biden is moving up in Iowa. He said anecdotally we're hearing a lot of buzz about Biden in Iowa. Biden has been inching up. He remarked that last week both Hillary and Obama (on MTP) praised Biden on Pakistan
He said "Biden could be doing better than people realize. Don't be surprised if Biden surges late." He said Biden doesn't have the money Kerry had (His wife Dr. Jill Biden is a wonderful women, but she likes access to the Heinz fortune)or the
infrastructure Kerry had in place in 04 but Biden has the buzz."

In answer to your question can Biden pull it off? Yes. And if all those with the financial ability to make a contribution to his campaign would do so, you will probably be very happy around 10 P.M. central time on January 3rd.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Sara, Cedar Rapids, Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:41:19 GMT

"* * * If our battle cry is give us somebody with experience then we must lift up the banner of Biden. But if we are truly concern about a new direction for this country then Hillary is not the answer. * * * I like ideal that Obama has taught Constitutional Law after all is not our whole way of life base on the Constitution

wendell j evans "

Biden has taught constitutional law at University of Delaware long before Obama entered law school, and continues to do so (he has taken this academic year off). So if teaching Con. law is a plus, and you already recognize that Biden is the candidate with experience then I suggest you look more closely at Biden.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

REG; East Valley Phx. AZ — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:43:59 GMT

Dot, Illinois: Re. Bidden.
The diplomacy I would like to see is in his controlling his attitude in the debates. He is impressive with his experience, his answers are right on and he is to the point but then he almost seems, maybe justifiably, impatient with the whole thing. I don't think that wins , even if with an edge in everything else. I suspect that is why he isn't the front runner.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Out-On-A-Limb, Lansing MI — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:53:09 GMT

I'm with you, Desperate.

However, you can't really blame the candidates for doing what it takes, in this day and age, to win an election. People don't want a thoughtful, intelligent response. They want: yes or no, black and white, right or wrong, good vs evil.

Most people are just too simplistic to listen to the realities and vagaries of any given topic. Too superficial to weigh BOTH sides of any argument.

Just read the above comments! It's mostly (not all, which gives me some small amount of hope), "Somebody done me wrong" conspiracy theories or "Rah Rah Hooray for our side" cheerleading.

Most people don't derive their opinions based on any kind of thought process, but rather on foregone conclusions and emotion.

And you might as well get used to it, because it ain't about to change anytime soon.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:59:40 GMT

Biden resonates now because and in spite of his being ignored by the major media.

I ignored him too, although I always liked him. Bright and apparently honest guy.

Terrific sense of humor and the ability to laugh at himself without appearing undignified.

Truthfully, he does look refreshingly... well, fresh!

Everyone in this season of the absurd, of debates that are no more than cameo head-shots, lowest common denominator attack and counterattack... everyone is already tired, and there is Joe.

The power structure would buy him in a minute if we would vote for him.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Steve Pillar, Hemet CA — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:00:25 GMT

c'mon guys, face up to it, CNN's debate set a standard for professionalism and equal treatment. Wolf actually asked Obama and Edwards tough questions not the inane kind about halloween costumes.... and much to your obvious chagrin, Hillary wins again. You guys, especially Russert and Matthews need to get much, much more objective cause the people are going to elect the next President in spite of the bias of talk show hosts, "political experts" and party hacks as we want to make up our own minds and you all get in the way with your own opinions, so, help us out with a tad bit more neutrality.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Ron Jeffers — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:04:19 GMT

I wonder that if Biden does not win the Dem nomination, would he consider running as an Independent? That way Democrats fed up with Hillary's tactics and Republicans unsatisfied with their weak panel of candidates could unite with Independents to elect Biden into office. Not sure if he currently has the funds to do this, but what a blessing it would be for this country if that happened.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

REG; East Valley Phx. AZ — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:05:48 GMT

Van:
You really do have a very strong favorable bias for Hillary. That is fine but I think it is naive or at least somewhat blind. Like when you were talking about body language and style, faulting Edwards and Obama (talk about taking 'shots'), I have to counter that by saying Hillary's body language and her style, to me, always scream out "I can't be trusted", "I am highly contrived and will say/do whatever I think will get me what I want". Just notice her when she doesn't know she is on camera and recognize she is totally self-focused and highly egotistic (much like George W. Bush) and that just scares me! I don't agree with you when you say Democrats should just accept her because she is better than any Republican; instead, I sincerely think Democrats can and should do much better!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Dot, Illinois — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:34:25 GMT

Sara

Thanks for the information.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:36:39 GMT

Sara:

I have to admit that you more than anyone changed my mind about Biden. Even though we had some snarky discussions on here in the past, the more I thought about what you said about Biden, the more I started paying attention to him...and the more attention I paid to him, the more impressed I became. The more impressed I became, the more I stopped thinking my vote would be wasted on him and started thinking about the possibility of him being this cycle's "upset" in Iowa.

Despite all my rantings about the anti-Hillary crew, and my neverending defense of her (which is more a result of the fact that I think she is an awesome woman than that I think she would be the best president), I was never planning to caucus for her. I was never firmly behind her as the Democratic candidate. I will absolutely vote for her if she is the nominee, but that holds true with whomever the nominee may be.

Anyway, the point is that over the past couple of months I have gone from being content with whoever was chosen as the nominee to truly wanting Biden to be that person. So if I can manage to figure out where the heck I am supposed to go, I will not only donate financially but I will drag myself out to caucus for him on January 3.

And you thought I was for Hillary. :)

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:38:19 GMT

REG;
I read every one of your posts. Don't always agree, but your opinions are always well articulated and thoughtfully presented. Thanks.

In case you were unaware of this, there are a dozen or so posters here who work for candidates, some are paid and others are volunteers (you probably already know this, so please forgive me if I state the obvious).

These folks aren't interested in learning or expanding horizons, but rather, they are on the payroll, and expected to trumpet their candidate.

Actually, First Read is remarkably clear of such trolls, but they do slip through.

I can often identify them. Some of them are infamous.

I work for a candidate, but not, thank the gods, here.

When you notice the posts getting repetitive, stale, gloating, or widely directed in personal abuse, you usually have an operative on the line.

Thanks again for your bright spots!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Richard, Washington State — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:40:02 GMT

From Roni:

"Human rights and national security are complementary. Obama was the only one to get it right. If we neglect human rights (ie torture and secret prisons led by us) then our national security is threatened. Go Obama, Go!"

First of I would agree with the person elsewhere in this blog who said that human rights and national security are, or should be, complementary. However, FDR gave the clearest example of national security interests trumping human rights consideration when allied with Stalin during WWII. In the interests of national security, he overlooked the issue of human rights as it pertained to Stalin and communist Russia.

It would seem that the answer to the question is situation dependent and like almost everything else, a matter of degree.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Kato in Des Moines — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:46:16 GMT

Senator Biden runs circles around the others when it comes to foreign policy matters. He also gets the nod when it comes to working with others across the aisle to build consensus and to get things done. His plan for bringing stability to Iraq was approved by 75 senators. (Clinton, Dodd and Obama can't build that kind of consensus on something as controversial as Iraq.) He has traveled to Iraq on numerous occasions and won the support of many key Sunni, Shia and Kurdish tribal leaders for his federalization plan. He is able to provide counsel as well as to admonish world leaders. Most recently with the President of Pakistan. Face it, this guy is respected across the globe and, in particular, in the Middle East. I only wonder when American's will get it.

I think things are looking up for Joe. The other day I made my second on-line contribution to his campaign and this time I actually got a return phone call from a Biden campaign worker in Iowa!!! Finally he's starting to organize here. That's promising. I mean I've received countless mailings and CD-roms from the Clinton, Edwards and Obama campaigns, and until the other day nothing from the Biden campaign. I know money matters. I'm hopeful though that more Iowans will consider caucusing for Joe on January 3rd.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:46:50 GMT

Van:
You really do have a very strong favorable bias for Hillary.
REG; East Valley Phx. AZ (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 4:05 PM)

As you have a VERY strong negative one.
My comments on the candidate's body language being telling is an accepted and reasonable aspect of the debates to comment on and many Talking Heads will be doing just that.
Your, "Hillary's body language and her style, to me, always scream out "I can't be trusted", "I am highly contrived and will say/do whatever I think will get me what I want".

is a statement of general bias not addressing the debate and simply further evidence of your stated dislike for Clinton.
I am favorable to Clinton but not actively against any of the democrats. You seem to be accusing me of a bias that occludes objectivity. I would offer that you take a second glance at your post, and then in the mirror.

If you really want the best candidate, who can win in November 2008 you should do a little objective thinking about re-evaluating your current beliefs and preconceptions.

Van

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Pbrown — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:56:31 GMT

Wolf Blitzer is one of the reason I no longer watch CNN…I use to really enjoy this station until it became a sophicated version of FOX NEWS… What are they pro Hilary… First the Sanchez Person continuously worked the Senior Citizen Woman and John McCain Story… WHO Cares…? And what hard questions did Blitzer and his team asks Hillary…. Campbell Brown, thank God she’s no longer with the NBC Company… She looked like she was applying for a job at FOXNOISE…CNN had an agenda… Fair and Balance, just as Chris Matthew would say HA! This station no longer has the credibility it once had when there were shows like Inside Politics with Judy Woodruff and Bernard Shaw; I prefer Aaron Brown over Campbell Brown and who said we wanted two hours Anderson Cooper … and Larry King “Marie Osmond’s teenage son” need I say more.

It you want fair and balance you can find it on MSNBC… Chris Matthew is as balance as you can get… Keith Olberman gives his Liberal point of view, although at times, I think he gives more favorable coverage to the Clintons than of any other Democratic Candidate. Live with Dan Abrams is a man who is not afraid to bring on opinions from both sides…and then there is Morning Joe… Joe Scarborough can be a little brutal at times but you have to love his two companions Mika and Willie…. My DVR is set to record them every morning so when I wake up I can get an update of what’s going on…. If you want fair and balance even when it comes down to Debates, MSNBC/NBC is your place…

The only thing I watch on CNN is Reliable Source with Howard Kurtz… But my political shows I watch and record on Sundays are Meet the Press and This Week with George Stephanopoulos, “George Will” you have love and respect him and I am a Democrat…

In my opinion, CNN doesn’t carry the same credibility as it use to not even on its website… And their ROWDY Debate atmosphere showed it.

Oh by the way CNN got my commets too

There are not even worth watching

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:11:41 GMT

This has been a red letter day! So many people talking about the strongest slate of presidential candidates in recent memory. And not a moment too soon either.

As Carrie and CitizenJ point out, this is an enormously critical time for our nation. These sound bytes and debate points are rather indicative of the larger issue of what sort of nation we will be after the Bush/Cheney/Rove putsch.

We have devolved into one of the circles of hell a as a nation since the moment GWB stood on the rubble of the WTC and proclaimed through an electronic bullhorn, a united nation and a united world.

That's so over. So now the work begins. How do we get back to that day when we all stood together and the whole world saluted our courage and American ideals.

So this bright morning we see Joe Biden emerge from the smoke and mirrors, we see Obama's youth and idealism, we see Hillary Clinton presenting a courageous, strong, and mature image of national and world leadership... and so on we could list the others in the debate last night who have so much to bring.

Is that hope we smell in the air?

We'll see...

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Richard, Washington State — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:23:52 GMT

Roni:

Sorry, it was you who said human rights should complement national security, not someone elsewhere in the blog. Doh!

I need to re-hire my proofreader.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mel, Illinois — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:10:25 GMT

Several years ago I scoffed at a friend for basing her vote on only one issue. Now, I am overwhelmed by concern over one issue. I do not know which candidate is best overall for the country. I do know I don't want my son, nephew, sister's step-daughter, cousin's son, or friends to go back to the disaster that is Iraq. The 'pearls or diamonds' question disgusts me. Should I wear pearls or diamonds when I apologize to the aformentioned friend?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Elizabeth Sullivan — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:48:04 GMT

Biden supporters or people looking at Biden:

When people talk about the plagarism, and they will, remind them of the facts.

Controversy helped derail Biden's candidacy for the U.S. presidency in the 1988 Presidential campaign. He was found to have plagiarized a speech from British Labour Party (UK) leader Neil Kinnock. The plagiarism was considered all the more serious, because it included details of Kinnock's life which were not true in Biden's case. After Biden withdrew from the race, it was learned that he had correctly credited Kinnock on other occasions but failed to do so in an Iowa speech that was recorded and distributed to reporters by aides to Michael Dukakis, the eventual nominee. Dukakis fired the senior aide responsible, but the damage had already been done to Biden.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Elizabeth Sullivan — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:49:56 GMT

If I had it my way:

Joe Biden - President
Barack Obama - Vice President
Hillary Rodham Clinton - first female Senate Majority Leader
Chris Dodd - Secretary of the Treasury

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Elizabeth Sullivan — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:52:30 GMT

Or:

Biden - President
HRC - VP
Obama - Atty General

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:37:00 GMT

Campaigns get crazy. That Joe Biden is not and was not a plagiarist was well known to everyone working that campaign, but we let it sit there and decompose until the stink was gone. By then it was too late.

The good thing is that Joe is older and wiser now.

Indeed, he would make a terrific candidate and no Republican could touch him.

Guiliani and Romney are already past their fresh dates and are starting to get a tad moldy, bluish around the edges.

Joe could be fun to watch even if he doesn't win the nomination. Something tells me we are going to hear (and see) a lot from (of) him...

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

ozie1 — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:53:49 GMT

Face it, America!
Against the bunch - the Edwards,the Obamas, the Romneys, the Giulianis et al- this woman, Hillary, she is just the better man!!

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

REG; East Valley Phx. AZ — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 16:51:08 GMT

Mark Thieme:
Thank you for your comments. I was slow on the pick up with being too much into the subject. Your remarks were sincerely appreciated.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:09:35 GMT

As we go into December and January it is good to remember two real poll numbers:

48% of Democrats have not made up their minds about for whom they will vote for president.

60% of Republicans are undecided as well.

All other polls are so much backwash.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:23:57 GMT

The capitalist oligarchy wants Hillary Clinton... as of today.

However, the poll numbers I quoted above are giving some important people fits. The backlash has to do with her cool personal demeanor... cool as in chilly.

She has been given to word to lighten up, warm up, and win Iowa or all bets are off. A surprising turn of events indeed!

Yes, I was taken by surprise by that... some of it has to do with Obama's inner game and the popular emergence of Joe Biden who is now running under the radar as the anti-Hillary, at least in terms of personality.

Watch Iowa.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:38:30 GMT

She has been given "the" word.

Read Sunday's Doonesbury for my excuse.

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Mark Thieme — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 22:55:31 GMT

Did the Clinton people try to slime Obama?

Why would they do that?

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

HMT-MI — Thu, 22 Nov 2007 20:36:13 GMT

not impressed with polls that come from the media

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

HMT-MI — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:10:15 GMT

hello

First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Myfa Gal — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:52:45 GMT

Poor SF you are so threatened by a woman for president! Your dislike of Hillary is obsessive. She runs circles around the guys sorry!!! You are afraid because she will bring about change, and you like things just the way they are. You are a big crybaby!!!
Go Hillary the Next President of the US!!!