Clinton vs. Obama

Tofun,Disney — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:29:46 GMT

Obama, stop attacking the democrats... get a clue.

Even Obamaniacs are starting to realize that you attacking the democrats is great for the GOP>

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:31:21 GMT

We all know the Clinton's dirty tactics. They cannot be trusted on any issues. They've been going after Rudy in the last 2 weeks and now shifting to Obama.

The Clinton's machine will do anything to get elected. She complained about mud sliding and now doing the same thing via prince of darkness.

This is the fight I have been waiting for. The Clinton must be stopped and dismiss from the Democratic Party. They’ve messed up the party with their scandal, corruption and dirty tactics.

Clinton vs. Obama

Rick Lapin, Albuquerque, NM — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:41:14 GMT

From Raymond Chandler’s Philip Marlowe mystery, “The Lady in the Lake”:

“Police business,” he said almost gently, “is a hell of a problem. It’s a good deal like politics. It asks for the highest type of men, and there’s nothing in it to attract the highest type of men. So we have to work with what we get -- and we get things like this.”

“I know,” I said. “I’ve always known that. I’m not bitter about it. Goodnight, Captain Webber.”

* * * * *

But knowin’ there’ll always be bad cops -- or venal politicians -- and knowingly votin’ for ‘em is two different kippers, ain’t it ...

Like Marlowe, the “brilliant intricacies” involved in this dance leave me cold. Stick your head backstage into the star-making machinery and pretty quickly all you can see is just that -- the machinery. And you start to focus on it, instead of on what it’s designed to enhance ... or conceal: Was it well-oiled tonight? Were the gears meshing smoothly? Did the hocus-pocus aimed at fooling just enough of the people for just long enough actually get the job done?

Nuts to that. Those who can’t control the well outright are apt to poison it -- and since the level of toxicity in this election is already so high I’ll just have to blunder through the rest of the way based on a few simple, unalterable tenets:

I will vote for no one -- ever -- who handed George Bush all the juice he needed to invade and occupy Iraq. No matter what face is put on it, no matter what rationale is advanced, no matter how important it was perceived to be to anyone’s political career.

Same goes for anyone who ever voted to fund it.

Or voted up the Patriot Act.

Corporate spaniels need not apply.

I will delete with extreme prejudice any candidate who has proposed or supported, in any way, shape, or form, the attempted effective subjugation of Iraq by splitting it into three parts; no matter how many times the word “stabilization” is thrown at me, no matter how many times I am told it’s for their own good, no matter how often the sheer, arrogant, self-destructive neocolonialism of the plan is denied.

Scratch (natch) anyone who claims to be a Democrat but talks, acts, and votes like a Republican. Or any Republican who talks, acts, and votes like a ... well, you tell me.

Those who got behind NAFTA will have to get along without me, as will participants in the long attempt to mitigate by half-measures and self-serving band-aids the refusal of our government to enforce its own immigration laws. I am too old, tired, and wary to excuse the expediency of selective law enforcement in any of its pernicious forms, or to abandon the precept that when you trash one law you trash them all -- and slip chaos in by the back door.

And that pretty much indicates where I probably stand on almost any other issue. I am not inside the game, and I don’t want to be. That’s for the smart guys. The with-it women. And if every poll in the universe says I’m all wet, well ... that’s show-biz, kids.

So call me simple, and leave it at that.

Like Chuck Berry says: “Too much monkey bidness/For me to be involved in ... “

Clinton vs. Obama

ki houston — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:41:24 GMT

tofun , are you in the twilte zoone or somthing . Obama attacked no one , he just refused to let mis info, like people like you saying he is a undercover muslim. Hillary supporters are getting ridiculas . I think this is a sign , they know the winds are going against them . They are already making excuses for losing Iowa.

Quit hating and join the movment. Obama 08

Clinton vs. Obama

Lyn, MD — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:42:49 GMT

In the column, in which he provided no attribution, Novak wrote that rival Hillary Clinton's campaign had decided against spreading ''scandalous'' information about Obama -- who challenged the rival campaign to either produce the information or refute it.

A Clinton spokesman said the campaign had no such information.

Obama said he took the Clinton team at its word, but insisted Sunday that he would never tolerate such tactics.

''I really value my reputation, my character and my family,'' he said. ''If you don't get on this stuff quick it starts drifting around. That's not something I'm going to accept because that's exactly the kind of politics we need to change.''

This is the kind of underhanded thing the Clinton's are known for doing. Look how she went after the women she thought Bill was having an affair with.

Good for Obama, going after them and saying put up or shut up..That were trying to get a whisper campaign going, that would be untraceable and it backfired on them.

Not unusual according to Salon.com:

Much more of it comes in behind-the-scenes e-mails to newspaper reporters and bloggers -- the sorts of e-mails we get from the Clinton campaign but not from the Edwards or Obama camps: On the "off-chance" you didn't read it, here's a copy of a Washington Post editorial calling Obama "irresponsible"; just "wanted to flag this item" in which the Huffington Post criticizes Obama on Iran; here's something Edwards just said about Iraq, and here's something contradictory he said earlier.

The last of those came in an off-the-record e-mail message we received from the Clinton campaign late last month. We're probably breaking the rules in mentioning it, but we figure it's fair game: If you're going to claim that the other guys are doing something wrong in calling your candidate's views into question, you don't get to pretend that you're not doing the same.

But our larger point here isn't that the Clinton campaign's "politics of hope" argument is hypocritical -- although when Penn says that Clinton is "defining the 'politics of hope' while the others are abandoning them," it is. The larger point is that the Clinton campaign's argument is off the mark, offensive and, ultimately, unhelpful.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2007/10/30/hope/index.html

Clinton vs. Obama

RAH, Washington State — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:49:24 GMT

First Read, your opinion about Obama's debate performance is only shared by the MSN. Other people saw it differently. I'm willing to bet that Obama also feels he did well in the debate and saw the debate set up for what it was. A CNN stacked audience, soft questions, and spinning analysis all for Hilary's benefit. Not everyone in the country thought Hilary won anything. Just you folks.

Obama doesn't NEED to change the conversation. He went on from the debate to Texas and had a crowd of over 3000 people. People come out to see, shake his hand and support him. Then he went to Iowa for other largely attended events where he had continues interruptions with standing ovations. This was over the weekend. He is feeling the love and your interpretation about him sweating is mistaken. Why do you bash him in such a way. Your analysis leaves much to be desired and is very biased.

Clinton vs. Obama

Lyn, MD — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:49:55 GMT

Obama, stop attacking the democrats... get a clue.

Even Obamaniacs are starting to realize that you attacking the democrats is great for the GOP>

Tofun,Disney (

Wrong...we are 110% behind Obama...you should tell Hillary that

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:51:07 GMT

She is for NAFTA during her husband presidency and now she is against it. What a liar?

What exactly did Bill Clinton did during his presidency aside from Monica Lewinsky?

Clinton brought NAFTA, Welfare Reform and what else?

Hillary Clinton’s idea of transforming America back to the ‘90s is baloney. I am not interested in going back to the ‘90s. Her current statement regarding NAFTA underscores the reason why I can’t trust her on any issue.

FYI: Hillary Clinton is a protectionist and anti-free trade.

Clinton vs. Obama

Steve, Indy, IN — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:55:00 GMT

@tofun - The best thing for the republicans would be Madame President. A vote for Hillary is a vote for a republican majority, a gridlocked government, and 8 more years of partisan bickering.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:56:22 GMT

Here is a good you tube video regarding Hillary Clinton's tactics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0-HkVcMOSw

The Clintons are too polarizing and cannot be trusted

Clinton vs. Obama

Grace — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:59:52 GMT

Obama doesn't NEED to change the conversation. He went on from the debate to Texas and had a crowd of over 3000 people. People come out to see, shake his hand and support him. Then he went to Iowa for other largely attended events where he had continues interruptions with standing ovations. This was over the weekend. He is feeling the love and your interpretation about him sweating is mistaken. Why do you bash him in such a way. Your analysis leaves much to be desired and is very biased.
RAH, Washington

Rah...note they didn't bother to mention the crowd in Austin or the crowds in the other events he attended, with huge crowds. The only thing was with that one woman..and then MSNBC and Fiest Read cut and pasted the exchange. Nor did they highlight (with a link..like they did for Hillary) the UAW endorsement.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:00:28 GMT

More on Hillary Clinton....Why every democrats should be scared of her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6LWcH2aOT8&feature=related

Clinton vs. Obama

Illinois — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:04:22 GMT

Watch Obama's answer to the 63 yo Iowa women who seems to have more of a grasp on the issue of illegal immigration than Obama. He doesn't seem to understand the danger of illegal immigrants (DESPITE HIS EXPERTISE ON THE SUBJECT "ha") Expect that the Dems want the illegal votes.

Obama does NOT LIKE BEING CHALLENGED, Dont' we have a president like that now.

John Edwards gets our vote.

Clinton vs. Obama

CitizenJ — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:04:26 GMT

"I know something bad about you but I'm not telling you what it is!!! Nanny-nanny-boo-boo!", says Novak. "Liar, liar, pants on fire!!!", says Obama. "Hahaha, we tricked you poopy head!!!", says Clinton.

Is this kindergarten or a presidential primary? I get confused sometimes.

Clinton vs. Obama

Natalie — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:05:13 GMT

If Clinton had nothing to do with it, why didn't they come out the minute it hit the papers...why did Obama have to ask them to disavow the information.

They have been known to leak theings to Drudge, I am sure Novak is no different.

I am sure they wish this would go away..it only reminds people how sleazy they can be. They thought they would be able to leak this like they do everything else....GOT CAUGHT

Clinton vs. Obama

DickieFlatts, Charlotte, NC — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:05:52 GMT

Axelrod probably planted so Obama could come out with his statement, play the victim, and blame Clinton, and play up his "different" (i.e. soft) kind of politics.

Obama is a fraud.

Clinton vs. Obama

Tofun,Disney — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:06:24 GMT

Why on earth would a presidential canidate respond to 'rumours'

inexperience, naivity, stupidity, panic
take your choice.
it was a bad move on Barak's part.

Clinton vs. Obama

richie philadelphia pa — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:09:55 GMT

who is fooled by this..if hilary was not so far ahead in the polls...this juicy tidbit would be put out there somehow..just the hint of a scandal may keep obamas numbers down without her hands getting dirty...its ashame democrats are rallying behind her when they had a chance to elect a true patriot like john kerry...rudy is looking better and better every day

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:11:42 GMT

Clinton vs. Obama

CitizenJ — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:13:15 GMT

Axelrod probably planted so Obama could come out with his statement, play the victim, and blame Clinton, and play up his "different" (i.e. soft) kind of politics.

Obama is a fraud.
DickieFlatts, Charlotte, NC (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 10:05 AM)

Seriously? I understand your anger about Clinton's planted questioner, but to suggest that Obama would pull the exact same scam shows both a lack of creativity on your part and an inability to find flaws within your own candidate.

Clinton vs. Obama

Ben, Las Vegas — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:14:25 GMT

No more Drama! Vote Obama!

With the Ice Caps melting, and polar bears dying, HRoboClinton wants to "turn up the heat". How detached and mindless is that slogan. Asbestos pantsuits, give me a break. Both Diamonds and Pearls, what a greedy petty little girl. Greed got us into the mess we're in now. These pro HRoboClinton puff pieces make me even more sick of the LapDog Media.

No More Drama! Vote Obama!

Clinton vs. Obama

Rob Boston — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:17:18 GMT

Gee, right wing nut cake Bob Novak prints some anti Obama material and sets off a fight between Hillary and Obama supporters. WHo does that benefit? Less attacking each other and more focus on issues and the Republicans lack of leadership would be useful.

Obama was right to come back forcefully at the hint of baseless rumors so he does not get swiftboated, but keep your fire in the right direction - at Novak and the Republicans.

WHoever wins the democratic nomination is going to be a whole lot better than the present crew or any of the GOP pretenders to the throne. So lets make it so a Democrat wins and thus save the Supreme Court and the executive branch. Stay focused - If Hillary wins the nomination, Hillary haters will still need to support her so we can gain the levers of power.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:19:00 GMT

Axelrod probably planted so Obama could come out with his statement, play the victim, and blame Clinton, and play up his "different" (i.e. soft) kind of politics.

Obama is a fraud.
DickieFlatts, Charlotte, NC

---------------------------------------------------

I guess you and Hillary Clinton are both fraud. The Clinton machine will do anything to get elected. The Clintons are bad for America.

We all know what Clinton's campaign have been doing in the last 6 months. Leak a story to drudge report regarding Obama, Plant the Gay controversy and they even went further to spread madrasa rumor that are baseless.

I have convinced 3 people over the weekend to vote against Hillary if she becomes the nominee. Here is one of the comments i got over the weekend regarding Hillary Clinton “…She looks like a witch that is power drunk".

Clinton vs. Obama

Class Warrior, D.C. — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:20:22 GMT

Too bad Novak and the others who outted Valerie Plame and ruined (and possibly got tortured and killed) her assets in Iraq and Iran and ruined a brilliant career, wasn't convicted of treason, as should have happened, and summarily shot.

Clinton vs. Obama

Kaye — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:21:54 GMT

Hillary's supporters must not know their candidate very well. Novak clearly stated that although he didn't get the info directly from Hillary's camp, that the "tip" about Obama is being circulted by them.

The Clinton's are clearly up to no good. If they had something, they would never NOT circulate it out of the good of their hearts. Even if they have nothing on Obama, they are dropping innuendo into the press to tarnish him through the power of "suggestion."

Obama was right to hit them hard with his response.

Clinton vs. Obama

CitizenJ — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:22:01 GMT

Why on earth would a presidential canidate respond to 'rumours'

inexperience, naivity, stupidity, panic
take your choice.
it was a bad move on Barak's part.

Tofun,Disney (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 10:06 AM)

You are right. Why would any presidential candidate respond to rumors? I mean, it is only their reputation with the voters at stake here. No big deal.

"Psst, Obama is a Muslim and wants to blow up the whole world. Pass it on."
"Psst, Clinton draws and quarters Asian immigrants until they give her money. Pass it on."

Psst, you are ignorant. And since I am a nice guy, feel free to try to refute that rumor. We'll give you a free pass this time.

Clinton vs. Obama

Tom — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:23:20 GMT

WHoever wins the democratic nomination is going to be a whole lot better than the present crew or any of the GOP pretenders to the throne. So lets make it so a Democrat wins and thus save the Supreme Court and the executive branch. Stay focused - If Hillary wins the nomination, Hillary haters will still need to support her so we can gain the levers of power.
Rob Boston (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 10:17 AM)

Rob...its tatics like the smear campaign that makes so many Democrats say they WILL NEVER VOTE FOR HER. Notice they had to almost force Edwards to say if she won he would...do you think he really will? Or for that matter his supporters or Obama's

BTW it wouldn't surprise me if she was behind the push polling on Edwards

Clinton vs. Obama

--NSMSNBC — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:26:40 GMT

If you can't actually find a scandel on your opponent, claim that you do. You don't ever have to come out with what it is, but the thought that it's there will hurt him or her--genius. I'm certainly not going to accuse the Clinton camp and there is no evidence to do so at this time. I believe Novak that it wasn't the Republicans. My guess, and far from fact, is that it was some over-zealous Clinton supporter, we have a few of those on this blog. It is, however, important to nip these kinds of stories in the bud like Obama did.

I will say this though, if Obama is going to bring us to a new style of politics, why didn't he contact Clinton privately so they could BOTH come out strongly and quickly against this rumor. But tensions are high between both campaigns and I don't think that either of them really like each other, respect sure, but I doubt like.

Clinton vs. Obama

Jesse, Burnsville, MN — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:29:44 GMT

The latest USA Today Gallup Poll of all registered voters:

Clinton (52% favorable, 45% unfavorable, +7 pts)
Obama (53% favorable, 30% unfavorable, +23 pts)
Edwards (50% favorable, 31% unfavorable, +19 pts)

Gee, fellow democrats, which of these ones doesn't look like the others. Get a clue! Hillary is not electable in the general election. Not only will you Hillary supporters cost us the presidency, all of those Republicans that would stay home on voting day because of anger with their own party would now be energized to show up at the voting booth. You don't think that will cost Democrats in other positions at both a local and national level?

Edwards/Obama or Obama/Edwards '08

Clinton vs. Obama

Tofun,Disney — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:32:58 GMT

tom, "tatics like the smear campaign"

what smear campgaign?

You believe Novak, the gop operative, everything is a conspircy against poor mr. Obama?

geez, Novak is trying to make certaint that HRC is not the nominee... BO is a weak canidate who will not be elected president.
The GOP want him to have the nomination.

you need to remember that HRC has worked for the thiings democrats support- national health care, family leave,civil rights protection,

Obama? he only talks about it.
talk will NOT get it done.
He'll be run over by the GOP machiine.... hell, you don't even believe he can handle the HRC machine because he's so weak, He can't even handle the Edwards machine.

Clinton vs. Obama

New Jersey — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:33:41 GMT

Illinois - Undocumented Immigrants can't vote...so I highly doubt that any candidate is trying to appeal to them anyway. They have no say, no voice, and no political strength. If any candidate is in support of any pro-immigration legislation it is because some CITIZENS of the United States are in support of it, because only citizens can vote. We should stop being afraid of the other and finally start working toward a better USA.

Obama '08!

Clinton vs. Obama

--NSMSNBC — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:39:14 GMT

If you cannot find an actual scandel on an opponent, make up that you do. That way, you can smear his or her credibility without revealing anything, especially when you don't have anything to reveal--genius. I'm certainly not going to accuse the Clinton camp of any wrong-doing. Spreading such a rumor is definitely not above their tactics, but there is no evidence, little for them to gain, and everything for them to lose. I believe Novak when he said it was from democratic sources. I think, therefore, that it seems likely that it was some over-zealous Clinton supporters, which we have a few of those on this blog.

If Barack is running a new campaign that highlights him as a unifier, why didn't he call Clinton personally first so they could BOTH come out quickly and strongly against the rumor? But tensions are high between the Clinton and Obama campaigns, and I seriously doubt they like each other, respect sure, but probably not like.

Clinton vs. Obama

Joyce — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:39:59 GMT

Why is Ok for Romney to come out forcefully against push polls targeting his faith and they don't know who did it. But not for Obama to respond when people try to smear him by suggestion.

Oh is it because the target might be Hillary? Why didn't the Clinton campaign go after Novak and demand to know who is using their name fasely? Instead they attack Obama. Because they know they are doing it.

They just didn't expect to get caught. Their style has always been to circulate backroom dirt ie Hillaryis44 website.

This is why so many people despise this woman

Clinton vs. Obama

Stopwatchingfoxnews, Rochester, NY — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:43:31 GMT

Clinton vs. Obama

Bill Livingston, Cambridge Mass. — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:52:04 GMT

New Jersey - "Illinois - Undocumented Immigrants can't vote...so I highly doubt that any candidate is trying to appeal to them anyway. They have no say, no voice, and no political strength."

You must be new here. Not this blog, but to this country. The conventional wisdom is that hispanic-american vote is hinged on how well the candidates cozy up to them. That's why you saw that ridiculous Immigration Reform bill that was nothing more then amnesty for illegals.

Both parties are selling out this country for your vote.

Clinton vs. Obama

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:53:49 GMT

To Ki, Lyn, and Bee:
Obama, NOT HILLARY, is the one who used NEO-CON rhetoric from the 1990's to attack a fellow Democrat.
We don't need people trying to win the nomination of OUR party, who imitate and parrot the tactics of the Republican Party during the last decade. We should be above that sort of thing.
Unfortunately, now we'll have to endure mud slinging from both in and outside of The Democratic Party, thanks to 'Lil' Barracky. (If Hillary does it back you can't blame her, she didn't start it.)
You're using too many emotions and to much rhetoric in your arguments, and you're not looking at the facts.
I am very sorry to say that Social Conservatives, and most of The South, and The Mid-West will not vote for Barrack Obama. He will cost us the election.
To begin with, he doesn't have the experience. A few years in a state legislature, and two in the U.S. Senate do not constitute the kind of "gravitas" necessary to be The President of The United States.
Secondly, he isn't a very good campaigner. He has stumbled all over himself, and fumbled over his own words SEVERAL times during these debates. Blitzer made him look stupid TWICE last week. Granted. Hillary had a less than stellar performace two weeks ago. But, it was the first time she didn't do well, and she quickly recoverd. Obama doesn't seem to have that ability.
Thirdly, Obama would LOSE on the issue of driver's licenses for illegal aliens alone. A subject HE brought nationwide attention to, by breaking Hillary's chops about the way she answered a question.
65% of the country is against it. He isn't going to convince 65% to change their minds.
Furthermore, I get the sense that Obama and his supporters are divisive.
That is to say, that they will accuse Hillary of anything, sling mud, and bring up Republican rhetoric from the 1990's just to get the nomination.
They really don't care if a Democrat wins the White House or not, or if the Republicans retain it and heep MORE tyranny on The American People. He and they are only worried about themselves.
I cannot, and will not be held hostage to vote for someone like that.
And finally, with reference to any scandal information that the media might have; nobody needs to look any further than The land deal between Obama and Atoin Rezko. The latter was indicted on political recketeering-like charges and he is a long-time friend of Obama's. If that is a secret, it's only because the main stream media has given him a pass on it up until now.

Clinton vs. Obama

CitizenJ — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:54:26 GMT

Stopwatchingfoxnews, Rochester, NY (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 10:43 AM)

I agree that Bill was an overall good President, but what does that have to do with Hillary? She is the one running for President, not Bill. The fact that they are married doesn't have any bearing on how she would lead.

"Anyone who thinks Hillary is going to come in and be directly opposite of what Bill was, is an idiot."

None of the Democrats running would come in and do the opposite of what Bill did, except maybe Kucinich. He did see a UFO, you know.

Clinton vs. Obama

Curt, New Jersey — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:54:29 GMT

From Tofun

Why on earth would a presidential canidate respond to 'rumours'

inexperience, naivity, stupidity, panic
take your choice.
it was a bad move on Barak's part.

Swiftboat Liars

Clinton vs. Obama

Daniel, NY — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:58:30 GMT

A new poll from Minnesota has both Democrats very strong in the general election, but Clinton runs a bit better, as Obama even loses one of its match-ups (against McCain). Link: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/11/democrats-strong-in-minnesota-and.html

Clinton vs. Obama

Anthony Palmer, Columbia, SC — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:00:41 GMT

This is all so stupid. Why do we as voters settle for this nonsense? Shouldn't we demand more from our politicians? Instead of worrying about planted questions and blind items, shouldn't the media and voters focus more on REAL news, like what to do about Pakistan, Chinese product safety, and the subprime housing crisis? Wouldn't it be nice if voters and the media asked them about those issues instead of this tabloid nonsense?

You can read more here:

http://www.theseventen.com/2007/11/lame-political-discourse-part-2.html

Clinton vs. Obama

Rob Boston — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:02:36 GMT

I agree that Hillary could hurt down ticket candidates in purple and red states. SO point that out and try to beat her in the primaries with an unelectability argument/hurts the party argument. But don't credit Novak with trying to help anyone except Republicans (just ask Valerie Plame).

BUT if Hillary is the nominee we have to rally around her. Or perhaps you can let me know which Republican you prefer to her?

Clinton vs. Obama

Steve, Indy, IN — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:03:30 GMT

@tofun - Gee, let's go ask John McCain, Al Gore, John Kerry, and all the others who have been swiftboated in the past 8 years. Obama is the only democratic candidate who can both win the general election, keep the democrats in the majority, and end the partisanship.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:03:32 GMT

Stopwatchingfoxnews, Rochester, NY,
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Clinton engineered 23 million new jobs by creating NAFTA, which I am okay with. Shall we say George Bush economy engineer the same number of jobs even though they pay less money? For Hillary to denounce the greatest achievement of her husband in a minute, it sounds like a "pandering" to me.

Why should I trust her, now? I guess the election year is around the corner and politician like Hillary will say anything to get elected.

By the way, Fox news is better than Clinton News Network. Did i tell you i cancelled my CNN subscription from my cable company? I told them to scramble it because of their bias reporting.

Clinton vs. Obama

Greg Okc — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:04:34 GMT

New Jersey, Illegal imigrants can not legally vote.. but then again neither can dead people!!!!

Stopwatching, what was the unemployment rate in the 90s?

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:06:46 GMT

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY,

Why should i believe you? You are not an honest broker in this case. She is a senator from NY and i don't expect to hear the truth from you nor Clinton's machine.

Another conflict of interest..

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:08:27 GMT

Daniel, NY,

Since you like pushing polls on us. How about the real poll?

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportEmail.aspx?g=2d211d2a-ee13-40ab-8455-5a70b9b55bfe

Clinton vs. Obama

liberal media my @!! — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:11:19 GMT

Bob Novak - America hater.

Clinton vs. Obama

Dot, Illinois — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:14:18 GMT

Anthony Palmer

I agree with you--this is all a bunch of nonsense that takes attention away from the real issues that face our country. If more of us let the politicians know that we wanted substance instead of tabloid fodder, perhaps things would change. As long as this type of thing "sells" were stuck with it.

Clinton vs. Obama

Dot, Illinois — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:14:30 GMT

Clinton vs. Obama

Simon, IA — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:15:51 GMT

Bee,

What did Bill Clinton do?

How about 23 milion new jobs, 100,000 extra police on the streets. Peace and prosperity, welfare reform and don't forget a surplus in the budget.

You Obama and Edwards supporters are now making it so people can't remember what a good president is like. You guys act like Bill Clinton was not one of the best Presidents this country has ever had. Yes, Nafta was bad, but as a whole, his presidency was very good. No one president is going to be favored by 100% of the people, but just ask yourself why he had a 75% approval rating when they were trying to impeach him.

Anyone who thinks Hillary is going to come in and be directly opposite of what Bill was, is an idiot. Get a grip Democrats. The minute you say Bill Clinton didn't do anything for this country, the more you play into the Republican smear playbook. Vote for Hillary in 08' or whoever wins the the democratic primary.
Stopwatchingfoxnews, Rochester, NY (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 10:43 AM)

Bee is a republican, running shit scared of Hillary. Poor soul thinks it's end of the world once Hillary comes to power as a Republican.

She/he is trying hard to ensure Obama becomes the nominee so Rudy and Karl can sweep him aside. So he/she wastes all day talking non-value added stuff on an internet blog.

Only a Republican dislikes Bill Clinton like the way Bee types:-)

Bee, I have convinced four sane republicans to vote for Hillary just this weekend. Touch the ground, Bee, its a different world out there.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bill, Albany NY — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:16:42 GMT

"You believe Novak, the gop operative, everything is a conspircy against poor mr. Obama?

geez, Novak is trying to make certaint that HRC is not the nominee... BO is a weak canidate who will not be elected president.
The GOP want him to have the nomination. "

OK, here we go. Obama is the best hope for a Democrat victory in the general election. Hillary is the one who can be beaten by the Republicans. Why, because she is more hated than the R Party is. She will draw out the voters who would have normally stayed home instead of dirtying themselves by voting for one of the R Party's drones.

Republicans are actually looking like they are willing to cross the line for Obama vs Gulianni or Thompson. But the polls do not show that on the surface, only if you start looking real deep.

I feel fine telling you this because you will not listen. You will push for Hillary and the GOP will win, not easily, but they will win.

Even Hannity and Rush have stated they would rather see Hillary in the general election than Obama, because she is beatable.

Clinton vs. Obama

David, Durham North Carolina — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:16:56 GMT

The Novak story seems pretty strange. Why would a Democrat leak to Novak? What is the motivation in all of these leaks? Perhaps it is the work of Bruno Gianelli. But if the scandal is real and the Clinton campaign wanted to discredit Obama, why not leak the scandal? As it stands the rumor seems to discredit both Clinton and Obama. Maybe someone in the Edwards campaign got a hold of some rumor and leaked it. But what about Novak. Does he claim there is a real scandal? Has he verified that Hillary actually has information that she is not revealing. Or is he just a rumor monger. Perhaps he is looking for a job with the National Inquirer.

Clinton vs. Obama

Lance SF CA — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:21:07 GMT

I really can't believe the opening questions on this piece. There is a column stating that the Clinton camp has but, won't use, scandalous information on a candidate, the candidate responds immediately and he's accused of "changing the subject", "paint(ing) Clinton as a "Washington" politician", or being "testy"?????!?!?!!?!? Unreal. And, had he not responded I can just hear all the accusations of him not standing up against empty, mudslinging rumors....

Unreal....

Don't fall for the coronation folks.

The time is now. Obama 08.

Clinton vs. Obama

CitizenJ — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:23:06 GMT

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 10:53 AM)

"Obama, NOT HILLARY, is the one who used NEO-CON rhetoric from the 1990's to attack a fellow Democrat."

Clinton is using her "experience" during her time as First Lady (in the '90s) as the basis of her experience. Don't you think Republicans will bring up that stuff? If she can't handle it, she is in trouble.

"Unfortunately, now we'll have to endure mud slinging from both in and outside of The Democratic Party, thanks to 'Lil' Barracky. (If Hillary does it back you can't blame her, she didn't start it.)"

Edwards has been slinging mud for a month now, and the Republicans have been slinging mud for decades. I hardly think it is because of "Lil' Barracky". And your comment in parentheses in pretty representative of your reasoning when it comes to anything negative that Clinton does: It's ok for her to do it as long as someone else does it too. If she is so good and above that type of thing, why would she do it back?

"I am very sorry to say that Social Conservatives, and most of The South, and The Mid-West will not vote for Barrack Obama. He will cost us the election."

Have you been in contact with Psychic Mary? Or maybe Nostradamos? The Social Conservatives don't usually vote for any Democrat. Obama has as much chance of winning enough South votes as Clinton. We don't need to win every Southern state. As for the Midwest (where I live), he has a lot of support here.

"Blitzer made him look stupid TWICE last week. Granted. Hillary had a less than stellar performace two weeks ago. But, it was the first time she didn't do well, and she quickly recoverd. Obama doesn't seem to have that ability."

And you are basing this on what? Fact?

"They really don't care if a Democrat wins the White House or not, or if the Republicans retain it and heep MORE tyranny on The American People. He and they are only worried about themselves."

Quite a contention, and it is one based on nothing but your obvious bias for another candidate.

"I cannot, and will not be held hostage to vote for someone like that."

So you are exactly the type of person you are accusing Obama supporters of being?

"And finally, with reference to any scandal information that the media might have; nobody needs to look any further than The land deal between Obama and Atoin Rezko."

As opposed to all the scandals that Hillary "didn't know about".

Clinton vs. Obama

Mark — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:24:29 GMT

Its the way Hillary INC responded that is more politics of usual (ie seeped in divisive red/blue bs). Hillary INC should have come out and categorically denied the claims, instead Hillary INC used it to portray Obama as inexperienced. She has turned me off should she be the nominee for the deomcrats. I would vote for Guiliani or third party candidate before her. I talk to a bunch of people in this blue state of mine and the sentiment here is anyone but Hillary. True.

Clinton vs. Obama

Marbw — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:25:23 GMT

Her campaign leaks to both right and left media. Salon/Matt Drudge/Novakula are now 'outing' these behind-the-scene tactics.
It was her campaign's duty to denounce Novakula's article. Notice, her campaigns initial response was to attack Barack Obama. Chris Matthews even said that he believes that her campaign did start the innuendo/whisper campaign. If there were real dirt on him, they would have leaked the actual dirt. Barack Obama's contacting Novakula would have been counterproductive(since he does not normally disclose the actual source's name).
Obama train has left the station.
Hop onboard.
No baggage(90's or otherwise) needed.

Obama08

Clinton vs. Obama

Tosin — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:27:42 GMT

Obama was excellent in his response; no need to doubt he's smart enough and tough enough for the general election. And if he had not responded so swiftly or forcefully, he'd be criticized for being a wimp. Of course Hillary would use Novak; we know she's already cozying up to Drudge and Murdoch. Hillary has earned zero credibility through the years; that's why no one is prepared to give her the benefit of any doubt.

Clinton vs. Obama

Rick,ky — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:27:54 GMT

J Merle Stanley writes in his 10:53 entry "I cannot, and will not be held hostage to vote for someone like that(concerning Barack). Well, Mr Stanley, THAT IS EXACTLY HOW OVER 50% OF AMERICANS FEEL ABOUT YOUR GIRL HILLARY.Please tell me how we as Democrats win back the Whitehouse with her as the nomineee?

Clinton vs. Obama

Louis Roundtree, Phoenix, Az. — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:31:51 GMT

let me get this straight now, we don't actually even need a baseless accusation or rumor, we just need a rumor of a rumor to get a story published. Way to go media. If you can't report the facts or distort the facts, make them up as you go along.

Clinton vs. Obama

Ron, TX — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:33:57 GMT

Obama handled this like an expert. He was able to QUASH the story in no time, and has Clinton backtracking. Novak says his sources were DEFINITELY democratic and part of the Hillary campaign. There are no Republicans involved. People are actually buying into Hillary's chirades that this shows his inexperience? At any threat of a "rumor" or a swift boat tactic, it should be put to death. Obama put it to death. How is that inexperienced? He didn't "fall for a Republican tactic"... he QUASHED a Republican tactic, one that Hillary Clinton's campaign has been linked to. Hillary Clinton's campaign has a habit of sending dirty news about the other dem candidates to news sources (see the Salon article others are talking about). It's no secret that Bill and Hill play dirty politics.

But Hillary is right, it IS a Republican tactic, SHE should STOP doing it! Obama QUASHED it. He excelled at STOPPING the Republican tactic. How silly of him!

Great job Obama. Just proves that experience and judgment go deeper than a resume...

Clinton vs. Obama

Tara — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:35:08 GMT

Likely story, Novak. I would say this is a case of Hillary's team trying to make people second guess Obama. She and her campaign are full of dirty tricks and we are doomed if she becomes president.

Obama '08!

Clinton vs. Obama

David Grimes Staten Island New York — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:36:01 GMT

It is the same things Bubba did in 92 with Jerry Brown and the Wall Street Journal Article.

How can anybody accept a treasonous liar like Bob Novak.

Only the Clinton Camp would want use a scum bag like Novak. That camp is not Democratic, it is corporate fascists and apparently they have their paid posters working here.

MSNBC, use you editorial privilege and remove some of these paid posters from your site.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:37:06 GMT

Simon, IA,

Call me a republican all you like, it doesn't change the fact that i am voting for Obama in the NH primary come January.

FYI: I'll continue to knock on my neighbor’s doors until they match to the poll with me. I have 3 already locked down by word of mouth and I am sure more will follow. Word of mouth is more powerful than any ads on TV. By the time I spread the news on the issues and back it up with their records. Guess what? They will all agree with me. Beside, You Tube will be my media source.

If the Clinton's machine thinks they have this election in their pocket, they must be mistaken.

By the way have you ever ask your self this question, why do so many democrats, independent and Republican hate Hillary so much?

She cannot be trusted.

Clinton vs. Obama

Sarah — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:38:16 GMT

Hillary Clinton looks more like Richard Nixon every day. She is controlling, paranoid, and willing to do whatever it takes to win, without regard for honesty and the welfare of our country.

I support Barack Obama and his rapid response to her whispering campaign. America will not settle for another Nixon.

Clinton vs. Obama

Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:39:47 GMT

Bill verses Hillary as President? Let see, they share the same visions for this country but Hillary is (as many have reported) is more organized and works harder! That sounds like a President who can do MORE GREAT THINGS!!! People say Hillary has too much baggage but those same people would vote for another Bill Presidency. If Bill had the affair, why did Hillary get the baggage? I think there are still a lot of people who can't deal with a women as leader. She had done great things in New York and is very popular with the people she has led. She has good plans and is focused on things that are important to me: jobs, education, healthcare and PEACE!!!

Clinton vs. Obama

marco escobar, dallas texas — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:41:56 GMT

Its a smear campaign on Obama by the GOP to look like it came from the Clinton camp. The GOP with its heavy defence and oil profits are funding Hillarys and Obamas race because these are the candidates the GOP put in place to beat. The GOP have already schemmed how this race is going to pan out, they are already implementing the back door tactics to rigg the election in their favor.This scandal leak is just part of the GOP toolbox.

Clinton vs. Obama

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:49:44 GMT

Simon:

On Bill Clinton and his balanced Budget.....

Bill Clinton, 6/11/92
"I would support a balanced-budget amendment"

Bill Clinton, 2/28/95
"Obviously, I don't support it [a balanced budget amendment]."

100,000 cops on the streets........

100,000 Cops

"The president has formed an alliance with the law enforcement officers around this country and experts in fighting crime, passed legislation, over the opposition of Senator Dole and Speaker Gingrich, that is now putting 100,000 extra community police officers on the streets." --Al Gore, ABC's "This Week with David Brinkley," 8/25/96

"What I am advised is that there are 17,000 officers that can be identified as being on the streets." --Attorney General Janet Reno, media availability, 5/16/96

Worse, not all of these cops are fighting crime:

"At least $7.2 million in COPS grants has been used to hire 86 officers for state parks, marinas and other areas seemingly far removed from violent crime." --Investor's Business Daily, 7/16/96

better recheck your facts and figures simon

Clinton vs. Obama

justthefacts — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:52:46 GMT

The Clinton haters really are a juvenile bunch. By all means support your favorite candidate but the smear tactics and 'hate Hillary campaign' would be better left to the GOP - they're the experts after all and we expect it from them. She's the frontrunner by quite a margin and the likely winner.

If you've convinced yourself that you just have to vote for a republican because you hate Hillary, then what have you got?? Well, look in the mirror and you'll find a republican - or some dufus protest voter that just threw away their vote. Not the astute political person that you thought you were...
it takes lemons to make lemonade, so try sucking on a lemon while you punch in your vote for Hillary - and
you'll feel better about the whole thing.

Obama will get his shot when he's been around the block a few times. Right now he's as green as a sassofras stick. In a few years maybe we'll see a mighty oak instead.

PS. Edwards is all but done for........

You DO NOT want another republican and you know it.

Clinton vs. Obama

Simon, Iowa — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:53:37 GMT

Here's the likely story: Obama had a bad debate and it would have gone on for few weeks. So Obama suporter spread the rumor for Novak. Knowing Novak, he was going to fall for it. The moment Novak printed it, Obama jumped on it in a minute (wonders why he was keeping track of Novak articles minute by minute). Hillary's camp came to know about it in few hrs as they didnt have any clue this was happening. All the media attention diverted to this rumor instead of debate performance. Media as a dog on leash followed it to lap it up.

And innocent Americans' attention got diverted from real debate issues.

Clinton vs. Obama

FL — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:53:46 GMT

Why would anyone even take that felon Novak serious after he outed an undercover CIA agent in his column and endangered her life and the country? Novak has no creditability and should be laughed away at his petty nonsense.

Clinton vs. Obama

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:54:28 GMT

Spit it out Hillary...
What do you have on Obama?........

Now she is caught red handed......

If she releases the information, she better be right or her career will really be in trouble......

If she doesn't release it, then she will always be known as a liar and she is just doing this to keep her in the news over the Holiday's like Britney Spears.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee, Crawford, Texas — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:55:39 GMT

MSNBC, use you editorial privilege and remove some of these paid posters from your site.

David Grimes Staten Island New York (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 11:36 AM)

You mean myself and Sierra?

Clinton vs. Obama

ted orlando — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:56:49 GMT

Obama 08 - go Obama!!

HRClinton cannot be trusted, this just seems like another political tactic to slow Obama.

Clinton vs. Obama

Tom — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:57:09 GMT

Novak speaks out about Clinton Smear attempt

http://thepage.time.com/

Says on “Fox and Friends” Monday he trusts his sources, Clinton’s handling of it reminds him of Nixon. Watch it above.

GOTCHA...they have been doing this whisper backdoor rumor mongering and basically the MSM has let them get away with it only siteing unnamed sources;

From Salon.com:
We got an e-mail today from one of Hillary Clinton's campaign spokesmen. It said that we "might want to check out Hillary Hub this morning," and it provided a link to make it easy for us to do so.

But don't just take our word for it. As we began to write this post, we received another e-mail message from the Clinton campaign. This one, a memo to "interested parties" from Clinton strategist Mark Penn, accuses Edwards and Obama of having "abandoned" the "politics of hope" by declaring that they're "going to go negative" on the Democratic front-runner.

Here's our memo in response: Stop.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2007/10/30/hope/index.html

Clinton vs. Obama

Carol Anne Seattle — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:57:31 GMT

Why in the world would anyone as intelligent as Barack Obama give credence to anything written by Robert Novak?

Clinton vs. Obama

Mark Thieme — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:58:26 GMT

Noting my running analysis of this story over the past couple of days, some of the Clinton people are appalled that I not only know these things, but that I would write them here.

For that very purpose I stay anonymous. If I am on a crusade of any sort it is to expose the rats in the garbage.

As you might have deduced, I am a cynical, appalled, mad as hell participant in many a campaign and I am not going to take it any more.

There is damn little idealism left in American politics. Almost none. I know, I have contributed to the damage myself.

Apparently, someone on the board has tipped off the Clinton people and they want my voice be be stifled, muffled. Quiet.

Even though I have written many favorable things here about Hillary, I haven't said anything nice about Mark Penn. In fact, I haven't said anything about him at all.

My bad.

I have contributed enough of the background slime for anyone who reads here to get the gist. Nonetheless, trust me on this one: if you undertake to tell the truth about what really goes on, you do so at your own peril.

Be very careful of the Clinton agents on this board.

Most of you know who they are.

Clinton vs. Obama

Tofun,Disney — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:02:11 GMT

'Even Hannity and Rush have stated they would rather see Hillary in the general election than Obama, because she is beatable. '

right, hannity and rush are giving the democrats the info they need to elect the strongest canidate - obama.

are you a simpleton?

btw folks... why are some of you posting you believe Novak..,then posting a different story that what he said ?

geez

Clinton vs. Obama

You MUST be a republican — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:02:21 GMT

Clinton vs. Obama

Ellis B. Kingman, Az. — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:04:58 GMT

Both the democrat and republican races remind me of children arguing in the school yard, all the he said/she said mud slinging has become old hat, and that is why I support Edwards. Edwards is the only candidate who is not for sale to the highest bidder, the only candidate who has pledged to clean up politics in Washington, and the only candidate who has turned down campaign money from special interest lobbyist. It is time we elect a leader who is committed to returning representative loyalty to those who elected them to act and speak on their behalf, it is time to remove the "loyalty for sale signs" from our representatives doors. Good laws and ideas that benifit all of America cannot get passed as long as corporate America and special interest lobbyist can purchase the loyalty of our representatives. Though I may not agree with Mr. Edwards position on all things, he has got it right about what needs to be done to fix a corrupt political system that is at the heart of all of the rest of Americas' problems. Go get um' Edwards.

Clinton vs. Obama

Molly, Iowa City — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:05:03 GMT

Tofun,Disney and the rest of you who actually believe the Clinton camp isn't the source of the Novak story.

I'm not an Obama supporter. I'm 100% behind Biden, however Clinton's campaign has been doing push polling in their candidate support calls since at least August.

And now a group has been making outrageous push polling calls regarding Edwards. It's clearly coming from Clinton. I started out respecting Clinton, but concerned she couldn't win the general, and would harm down ticket candidates. I have lost most respect I have for her as a human being. If she is the nominee I'll vote for her, but for the first time I will actually feel like I'm voting for the lesser of two evils and that sucks! Hopefully it won't come to that!

Clinton vs. Obama

diane — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:05:06 GMT

you guys at first read are really reaching in trying to paint Obama as being 'testy' and such.
The fact is that most people applaud his actions. He came out immediately to call the slimy Hillary to either put up or shut up. and it was her campaign that danced around it all day until late when they finally admitted to having nothing.
Obama wanted to answer the press, who is forever looking for ways to put doubt in people's minds about him and paint him as something he is not, and let them know it is a matter of honor.
the pundits cannot help themselves in wanting to always make Hillary look 'experienced' (and which you know most people don't buy) and Obama look green (of which you know he has more legilative and elected experience than your girl).
Between the way you guys try to insert doubt and take Hillary's side when she is trying to trash him, and CNN and that joke of a debate, ect. you guys look desperate in trying to save your girl.

Clinton vs. Obama

Mike K, Denver — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:05:45 GMT

Can someone PLEASE tell me why in the Hell Robert Novak isn't sitting in a jail cell somewhere awaiting execution for treason per the Constitution?

Given that he outed a CIA operative in his column, shouldn't we distrust anything this man says anymore?

Anyone who puts credence into ANYTHING that man writes or speaks should have his or her head examined.

Clinton vs. Obama

Jon, NY — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:06:28 GMT

Wow... if the posts here are actually real, it's amazing just how dumb, some Democrats can be.
Dumb enough to get a GOPer elected.

Bob Novak says something, and all the Obama people lash into Clinton.
I guess the Democrats have as many sheep as the GOP.

I don't love Hillary, and question whether she can be a strong enough leader, but, she'll be a helluva lot better for this country, than if y'all get your wish, and get a GOPer elected.
This Democratic Anti-Hillary cult, is as bad for America, as the sheep that follow Bush.

Clinton vs. Obama

diane — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:10:09 GMT

Simon, as for 90s jobs you need to look to silicon valley rather than the corrupt Bill. He was busy throwing the party under the bus and becoming the best president the republicans ever had. Not to mention dealing with the endless soap operas of this dysfunctional family.
Hillary owes her career not to hardwork and talent but, neoptism alone.
obama is constantly polling in head to head as the strongest candidate in a general and Hillary is the weakest.
Just because this corporatist and opportunist has a D after her name doesn't mean she is a republican in wolf's clothing.
clinton and Penn are just another version of Bush and Rove

Clinton vs. Obama

pat huntington ny — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:12:34 GMT

Jerry - here's a bit from an article in NEwsday about your pal Rudy, and the COPS law that did in fact place 100,000 new cops on the street thanks to Bill Clinton:

The key issue was law and order. "Schumer was closer to Giuliani on crime issues than he was to liberal Democrats," said Democratic consultant Hank Sheinkopf.

The vehicle was the 1994 crime bill, which included the COPS grant program to add 100,000 police to city streets while banning assault weapons and restricting gun purchases.

At Giuliani's request, Schumer expanded the COPS grant legislation to allow cities also to hire civilians and buy computers. Giuliani put his prestige on the line to lobby GOP House members and to promote gun control.

Clinton vs. Obama

marco escobar dallas texas — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:17:00 GMT

This smear campaign on Obama and Hillary is straight out of the GOP game play book. The GOP has nothing positive to say about their party's candidates so they attack from their tried and true bag of dirty tricks to sway public opinion.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:17:12 GMT

Simon, Iowa,

How about responding to Jerry's fact regarding Bill Clinton? I have mentioned 2 things that he did which are Welfare Reform and NAFTA. What else did he do as a President?

We can all agree that Monica Lewinsky is another biggest part of his presidency? How about the culture of pay to get pardon? I can go on and on but I won’t. I still like Bill Clinton but can’t stand Hillary.

You said he put cops on the street... but Jerry just dismissed your facts. How do you respond to that?

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:20:03 GMT

You don't 'subscribe' to CNN Bee. It's part of any basic cable package. It's not a premium service. So all your high and mighty actions did was prevent you from watching something you're paying for anyway. I'm sure CNN's real upset
You MUST be a republican
------------------------------------------------

Haven't you hard the word scramble. I ask my cable company to block it. No more Clinton News Network

Clinton vs. Obama

Joel Arthur New York City, NY — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:20:06 GMT

does anyone think that this may be a GOP trick orchestrated by Novak to discredit both Clinton and Obama. Think about it, Novak lets a story leak that the Clinton campaign has something scandalous on Obama. Thus making her look dirty. The fact that Obama may have something hiding in the closet makes him look dirty. Sounds a little like Novak playing the Valerie Plame game again, and we all know who was really responsible for that. This little game if played right, can weaken both Hillary and Obama in one stroke.

Clinton vs. Obama

Fedup Independant — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:21:09 GMT

Wasn't Novak involved in leaking a CIA identity? Who would trust ANYTHING that traitor says or writes?

Clinton vs. Obama

Sam St.Louis, MO — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:22:29 GMT

Do we really want our next president to one who listens to the enemy (like Karl Rove opertive Robert Novak)without checking facts and a president who will rush to judgement...does this sound familiar...George Bush, maybe?
Obama has already said he will meet immediately & unconditionally with our enemies. After blaming Hillary without actually talking with her about something an enemy said, I can't imagine what Barak Obama will believe or do when he talks to the leaders of Iran, Syria, etc. He has said that he will meet with them unconditionally in the first year he is president. Will he believe everything they say? If one of the enemies said something quetionable to "President Obama" would he get all upset, take his toys and go home then blame our counrty for putting him in a bad position? Or would Obama suggest that they all hold hands and sing "Kum Baya". Obviously Obama can blow either way as he does now. Which way is it Obama...the politics of hope or whining and attacking?
I'm for a strong, steady, experienced leader
and it is more and more evident that Barack Obama is NOT the one.

Clinton vs. Obama

Fedup Independant — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:23:30 GMT

Bee

This is an ex republican who is going to vote for Hilary. Or.. no matter who runs against the Republican parasites

Clinton vs. Obama

Simon, Iowa — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:24:22 GMT

Clinton vs. Obama

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:30:00 GMT

Obama is trying to fight the old machine politics that have been finely honed by the Hillary campaign. Novak (who, I agree earned the repute of a weasel by outing Valerie Plame) still is always truthful in his reporting (it's just the hidden agenda that has to be questioned - I'm sure he hates the Hillary camp). He claims that a high level Democrat (who is neutral) was told by a Hillary staffer that their campaign had scurrilous stuff on Obama but that it just wouldn't be right to release it (hahahaha, what saints they are).

So what do they do but leak it to the champion leaker (Novak). Anyway Novak compared this to Nixon's tactics against George McGovern in 1972.

I think that it was right for the Obama campaign to immediately call call team Hillary out on this. It's a 'put up' or 'shut up' thing. And not only does it show the Hillary camp for what it is, a slime machine, but it shows that Obama would be able to deal well handling any Republican slime. BTW Obama has already released any bad stuff about him, long ago.
Obama '08

Clinton vs. Obama

Jim and Helen — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:30:03 GMT

Good Lord! Is Barack Obama losing his mind????

Clinton vs. Obama

Fedup Independant — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:31:31 GMT

Bee, I have put a block on Fox Propaganda. I have banned it in my home. What a bunch of twisted liars. It should be branded as Goebbels News. Anything coming out of that channel is suspect. I don't believe a word of the Obama scandal thing. It is purely a Fox-Goebbels agenda item. Nothing more.

Clinton vs. Obama

Fedup Independant — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:33:23 GMT

That's just it Simon, they WANT an Iranian style dictatorship. Only one opinion allowed. Extremism.

Clinton vs. Obama

Mike K, Denver — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:33:39 GMT

<<J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY>>

Westchester, NY. How close is that to the Clinton home?

Iowa is mid-west and he is tied with Hillary (and may be leading given the margin of error on most scientific polls). Don't discount the midwest voting for Obama. Hell, he's from Illinois. Midwesterners dislike negative campaigning. The Clintons basically wrote the book on it (although it was Karl Rove who made it an artform).

Obama can win Iowa. He does that and Hillary doesn't have much of a leg to stand on after. She is playing catch-up in Iowa just now learning how to properly campaign in that state. Given the caucus format, that form is person-to-person, small group campaigning. Obama and Edwards have that down to an artform. She's just getting started. It's too late for her and she knows it. Don't be surprised if further digging into Novak's little plant piece did infact come from someone in Clinton's campaign.

While Edwards and Obama can relate to people on a personal level, Hillary is ice cold. She doesn't have it in her to do what is needed to win Iowa. She has to have a former governor introduce her to the very people she needs to vote for her on 1/3. That's just sad and pathetic for a serious presidential canidate to have to resort to.

Clinton vs. Obama

Ellis B. Kingman, Az. — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:37:11 GMT

To Stopwatchingfoxnews, you are confused friend, Bill Clinton did not create 23 million jobs, he took credit for those jobs created by the high tech industry until its' bubble burst in 1999. Bill and Hillary did however give us NAFTA, scandals a plenty such as troopergate, travelgate, filegate, whitewater and of course Monica. And he did rent Lincolns' bedroom and Airforce One for campaign donations and did accept campaign money from Chinese government officials and did Pardon an exiled FBI fugitive who funneled over one million dollars to Clintons 1996 campaign. And Hillary continues the tradition of accepting blood money with no questions ask, just ask Norman Hsu. The Clintons' adventures are history, let them stay there.

Clinton vs. Obama

adam — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:39:37 GMT

"So was Obama simply trying to change the subject from the Thursday debate? Or does the campaign believe that anytime they can paint Clinton as a "Washington" politician, it's a good day for them? Or are the Obama folks simply pressing and therefore a bit testy?"

hmmm... i wonder if the author is biased at all.

Clinton vs. Obama

Kristian O — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:40:56 GMT

It isn't losing Iowa that will bury Hillary Clinton. It is the panic that will ensue as a result of getting crushed that will do the trick. This entitlement mentality won't cut it for me. I'm a Smith-Barney kid. You've got to "earn" it.

Clinton vs. Obama

LaTreetha Spring Hill, Florida — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:41:23 GMT

I watched the debate on Thursday and I thought that each of the canidates should have been given time to answer the question not just yes or no. I think CNN, did itself and the nation an unjustice by using should a question in this manner.
Senator Obama did not mess up as you are stating he was giving an answer for hi yes.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:41:58 GMT

This is an ex republican who is going to vote for Hilary. Or.. no matter who runs against the Republican parasites
Fedup Independant
--------------------------------------------------

How about showing your true color? Another Van disguising to be independent and now calling himself Simon, IA. No credibility whatsoever.

Clinton vs. Obama

laura.mtn. view.ca. — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:44:05 GMT

obama is very suspiocous- dont blame democrats u oabma talk and act like republican mostly republican endorse you is in ur side.when u hear this thing involve with novak the republcian u have tio have common sense got it?remeber?right wing conspiracy.
now we know hown nice the clinton- fight for the right wing conspiracy for 15 years or more-.stop being so angry-ur so angry ebc. u want to eb a pres, badly daddy tld you be a pres, no epxreince. bush no epxreince look at what happen- crumbled america. at leat the clitnon been there and dont that. good america then balance the budget/surplus and good econmy- bush destroy that gasoline hign price/no jobs/crumbeld war and killing lots of soldiers,
no crook kerik guiiane either- republican party is a crooks//republcian candiate lots of crok a party ofc rooks./we cant afford to have a mafia pres, guiliane-
all white and ethnic group asian and black rally around hillary clinton- remeber- no mafia for pres, guilaine.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:45:45 GMT

Mark Thieme (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 11:58 AM)

Haha Mark, trying to be drama king on an internet blog site? Take Queen Bee with you.

Bee says she removed her subscription of CNN and got Fox News instead of that. Haha what a simpleton liar.

You get CNN and Fox as part of common paid subscription. You dont subscribe to CNN separately unless you are living in Iran:-)

----------------------------------------------------

Let’s face it; you're another Van from NY. Please come out of the shadow.

By the way, attack me all you like, that won't change my mind of voting for Obama and if Hillary wins the nomination [Which I doubt] i’ll go out and cast my vote against her. Hopefully, Bloomberg will get in the race by then.

No more Bush-Clinton dynasty.

Clinton vs. Obama

Simon, Iowa — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:51:02 GMT

By the way have you ever ask your self this question, why do so many democrats, independent and Republican hate Hillary so much?

Bee (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 11:37 AM)

Yes Bee, I asked that not only to myself but also many other people I meet as part of my work and networking. There are 3 sets of people I came across:

a) Intelligent well read Republicans and Democrats: They say they dont hate Hillary as it is all rumor. Ken Starr spent $50M taxpayer money and tried everything against Clintons on Vince Foster, Watergate, etc etc, he got nothing out of it. So the knowledgeable people say its all a rumor that Hillary is hated.

b) Not so well read people: They say that they heard a rumor once so they are ignoring it. But they heard this rumor 100 times so they are starting to believe it. When I ask have you seen any proof of it, they say no but some people come to us and keep talking about the rumors about Hillary.

c) Unintelligent republicans: They say that we have been told to hate so we are doing it. When I ask who told you so because as a Christian you shouldnt hate but love others. They say that their party leaders or evangelical leaders said we must stop Democrats as they are anti-Christ.

So Bee, if Americans are intelligent, then Hillary will win and you will live your life peacefully.
If Americans are not so well read, then they will either shore up their knowledge about Hillary by reading the facts or they will fall for your rumors without verifying them. (I know you are hoping Americans are foolish to accept rumors once u say it 100 times).
For the 3rd set of people, where you belong, I guess you will always be followers and puppets in someone's hands. Cant help you there.:-)

I dont make my decisions based on what someone else says. And I dont jump into a bandwagon to influence my judgement. I read facts/reports/books, even Republican reports, and till now no one has been able to prove anything against Hillary. The rumors are out there because someone people have nothing else to say or do than keep spreading lies.

Same with Biden and Edwards and even Mitt Romney. They are impeccable people who have worked hard to reach where they are. Yes there are differences because no two people are alike. But no one can point anything illegal or unpatriotic against them. Guiliani I am a bit skeptical about.

Bee, I am assuming you will live a hateful pitiful life. But hey you can prove me wrong:-)

So Americans, your hatred will only eat you inside. But it's your choice in your life. You want to believe hateful news or be a real American and read up the facts and then decide?

Clinton vs. Obama

Samo, MO — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:52:29 GMT

Axlerod..good one. Scumbag Novak puts out gossip, says it comes form Democrats...not which one...you have Profesor "holier than thou" Obama act weak and poor me...someone...HILLARY...has said something bad about him. No fact checking or actually talking with Hillary personally. Look at all the fruit cakes in the comment section who've been suckered just like you planned...Axlerod. It was a calculated move go get the heat off Obama after the debates where he looked so weak and inexperienced. You and Obama have done it before.
How stupid did that sound Obama supporters. That's just how immature you all sound.

Clinton vs. Obama

Joshua B. Billings Montana — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:58:07 GMT

just want to say something to dems here if we are to win then we need to be united attacking eachother is irresponsible and just wrong. Hillary should not attack obama or edwards and the same goes for them. and as to those who argue that by having hillary as the nomination that will bring repub voters out costing the dems then that means that you do not believe that the party is in step with the majority of americans.
An open Questions to all Dems here please answer

WHY DO WE ALL FEEL THAT OUR PARTY CAN NOT WIN IF 100% OF VOTERS TURNED OUT DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE REPUBS ARE THE PARTY OF THE TRUE MAJORITY OR IS THIS JUST FROM LOSING THE PRESIDENCY IN 2004 ADN HAVING IT ROBBED FROM US IN 200

Clinton vs. Obama

queen bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:04:44 GMT

I am the Real Bee and I trully support Hillary!

Clinton vs. Obama

CitizenJ — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:04:45 GMT

Clinton vs. Obama

Mark Thieme — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:14:53 GMT

CitizenJ:

I think this is a draft of the republican 2008 platform.

Just early stages.

Brainstorming.

Clinton vs. Obama

Kelly, Pittsburgh — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:19:35 GMT

Sam (from St. Louis, you couldn't be more wrong. Obama did not rush to judgement and blame Hillary. He simply demanded that her campaign refute that the article is true or come forward with the alleged "scandal". He absolutely had to swiftly confront this rumor mongering, no matter who is really behind it. Novak is a member of the press, so whether we like it or not, people take those things as fact until they are refuted.

Hillary should have immediately responded and refuted having anything to do with the article. But instead, she tried to say Obama shouldn't have paid so much attention to this and is inexperienced. That it BS and calls to question whether she was behind it. She keeps saying that he is acting like a Republican and is mud slinging. I challenge anyone to note a specific example where he threw mud. He has proposed real criticisms and challenges of her record, which is a valid part of clean campaigning.

Maybe it has been a Republican trait in recent campaign history to stick up for your honor and show strength, but Obama is going to show that many Democrats still have a backbone. He's not going to be swiftboated like Kerry. Not by the Republicans and not by Hillary Clinton. He is also not going to blame the "vast right-wing conspiracy" every time someone asks him a difficult question.

Clinton vs. Obama

Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:20:50 GMT

How does Bee A. Republican get so many posts on here? SHUT UP!!!

As for Jerry, what took you so long to help Bee out? She's been floundering with stupidity here.

Clinton vs. Obama

CitizenJ — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:23:54 GMT

CitizenJ:

I think this is a draft of the republican 2008 platform.

Just early stages.

Brainstorming.

Mark Thieme (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 1:14 PM)

Haha. It all makes sense now.

Clinton vs. Obama

Simon, Iowa — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:26:56 GMT

CitizenJ,

I admire you for your support of Obama in a civilized respectful manner based on issues. But I was trying to engage in discussion with Bee and she feels I am attacking her. All she has in her life is hatred, no issue based knowledge. Till we allow such people on civilized discussions, you will keep asking what is going on here.

An idiot can only pull the level down to his or her level. I thought Bee was a smart chick, a Karl Rove intern. But I was wrong:-) She now feels I am someone called Van or someone else and I am attacking her.

Engaging in discussion and showing differences on issues is not attacking. Bee says she supports Obama but doesnt follow his words. Too bad she cant see the ideals of her so called candidate and starts acting like a republican:-)

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:31:26 GMT

Guiliani I am a bit skeptical about.

Bee, I am assuming you will live a hateful pitiful life. But hey you can prove me wrong:-)

So Americans, your hatred will only eat you inside. But it's your choice in your life. You want to believe hateful news or be a real American and read up the facts and then decide?

Simon
----------------------------------------------------

Your statement above confirms why people like me can't stand Hillary Clinton and her machine that are so rude and ruthless in their course.

You assume every body that disagrees with Hillary are enemy and base all your argument on "You either like her or dislike her" and if you dislike her, then you must be republican. The premise of your argument is what makes Democratic Party looks pathetic and it is not a winning formula

Hillary Clinton cannot win the election if they have people like you as a staffer. Winning election is about reaching across the divide and convincing people to change their mind after educating them. You don’t expect me to change my mind now, do you?

Here is the thing you Hillary bloggers don't get; the more you push aggressively against a contrary opinion the more you look pathetic. Why do you think someone like me is voting for Obama? It is simple because he shares my value of honesty and candor. Do I agree with him on all issues? NO. But I’ll vote for him because he is an honest broker. He will give a fair hearing to both republican and Democrats.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:31:26 GMT

Clinton vs. Obama

P. Power — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:34:13 GMT

For someone who's only lived in the beltway for a couple of years, I've quickly come to appreciate first hand that the media stationed in DC are part of a feeding frenzy machine organized to manufacture and stir up controversy and talking heads fodder. They attend the same parties, circulate on the same cable TV shows and many merely repeat and write about the "song of the day", which is directed at making news.

They all know Novak for what he is but the club rules don't allow for criticizing a club member.
My answer for it has been to tune out talking head TV shows (Hardball/Tucker), and whenever I read a controversy caused by club member (Novak), I skip it or change the channel.

Unfortunately it seems I won't be watching or reading much of "their" news in this upcoming and important election year.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:40:37 GMT

WHY DO WE ALL FEEL THAT OUR PARTY CAN NOT WIN IF 100% OF VOTERS TURNED OUT DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE REPUBS ARE THE PARTY OF THE TRUE MAJORITY OR IS THIS JUST FROM LOSING THE PRESIDENCY IN 2004 ADN HAVING IT ROBBED FROM US IN 200

Good question and here is how I am going to answer it. Democratic party will loose the election if they nominate someone with questionable character.

DP will loose if they nominate someone that is wishy washy.

DP will loose if they nominate someone that is not principle

DP will loose if they nominate someone that cannot unite a nation

DP will loose if their nominee can’t win 45 % of independent.

DP will loose if their nominee is not something new.

I know the issue of dynasty is not relevant in the primary come November 2008, it will become a hot button issues if DP nominate someone that feed that narratives.

Clinton vs. Obama

Tim, Cranbury NJ — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:51:22 GMT

Can this article even be considered journalism? It is a clearly biased article written about an article written about a rumor. Has anybody noticed that every headline has something to do with "Hillary's response to..." or "... response to Hillary" Where is our objective media?

Clinton vs. Obama

Mariah, Des Moines, Iowa — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:08:05 GMT

novak has responded, and shows the hillary camp is in fact engaging in true slimeball politics....this is about to blow up, america deserves better

Clinton vs. Obama

HILLARY 08 — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:19:01 GMT

This exchange alone tells me the possibility of Obama winning the nomination. If he can debate Republican on these issues of Terrorism and Illegal Immigration, I sincerely believe he can win the nomination. Terrorism should not be linked to immigration phobia.

He held his ground and explained the difference to an uninformed voter. I am very sure undecided republican are paying attention to the exchange. A man of principle and conviction is worth my vote.

Obama’08

Bee (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 10:11 AM)
------------------------------------------------
WOW Bee baby you have NO spelling or grammer errors!
Holy cat fish buzzer you are now our queen bee.
Well you do DRONE on so maybe not queen bee.
So jerry you like Obama?

Clinton vs. Obama

Charlie in Tallahassee — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:21:03 GMT

Breaking news for all who think Hillary can win the general election: New Florida poll shows that Giuliani would easily beat Hillary in Florida, and that the DNC's punishment of the state for moving it's primary up would hurt whoever the Democratic nominee is. Please, Democrats, don't throw the election away again! (Full disclosure: I'm for Biden or Edwards.)

TALLAHASSEE -- Former Republican New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani would easily defeat his Democratic rival, New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, in the Florida presidential race, according to a poll released today.
If the two New Yorkers are their parties' nominees, Giuliani would best Clinton 50 percent to 43 percent, according to Mason-Dixon figures. Seven percent were still undecided.
Just as troubling for Clinton are her negative ratings.

"Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton, however, is hampered by high negative ratings, (38 percent favorable/45 percent unfavorable,) and less than half of Florida voters (49 percent) said they will consider voting for her," said Brad Coker, Mason-Dixon's managing director.

Clinton would stand a better chance if Giuliani stumbles and the Republican nomination went to his closest challengers, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney or actor and former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson.

Clinton trails Thompson in Florida by only four points, 48 percent to 44 percent, and Romney by only one point, 46 percent to 45 percent.

A decision by leading Democratic candidates not to campaign in Florida as part of an intra-party struggle over Florida's decision to move its primary to Jan. 29 could backfire for the party, Coker said.

Statewide, 26 percent of independent voters and 33 percent of undecided voters said they would be less likely to vote for a candidate who stayed away until after the primary, the poll shows.

http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071119/CAPITOLNEWS/71119017/-1/BREAKINGNEWS

Clinton vs. Obama

Good Sense, MO — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:25:11 GMT

Professor Holier Than Thou...I like that...Obama surely walks in the clouds with his pie in the sky talk. And the sad thing is so many of you are hood winked with his mishmash. Do you really think that this weak inexperienced man will be able to get all his "pie" done. Oh, sure. If Obama is to be believed, he will just talk with the Rep and they will be so impressed with his great intelligence and kindly manner that they will fall all over themselves to work with him for the greater good. And another innovative idea of his...he'll just meet and talk with our enemies and they will see the light. He surely proved that that is what he will do...he listens to the enemy...Novak...and rather than talking with Hillary, etc. he attacks.
I'd rather vote for the Easter Bunny than for a hypocrite like Professor Holier Than Thou.

Clinton vs. Obama

Good Sense, MO — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:26:25 GMT

Clinton vs. Obama

HILLARY 08, 09, 10.11.12.13.14.15.16 forever — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:27:05 GMT

Clinton vs. Obama

Good Sense, MO — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:27:34 GMT

Clinton vs. Obama

Mark Thieme — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:30:06 GMT

In spite of the crude Clinton trolls here (you know who you are. The word "crude" is the tip-off) and in spite of the fact I would prefer at least 3 other Democrats more than I do her...

If she is the candidate Democrats must support her.

We should support her for the reason Louisianans supported Edwin Edwards over David Duke.

This is a blue-gray world. Sometimes more gray than true blue. You take the better of two choices and make the best of it.

As Edwin Edwards said:

VOTE FOR THE CROOK. IT'S IMPORTANT!

It is.

Clinton vs. Obama

H P Boston — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:38:44 GMT

My bad.

I have contributed enough of the background slime for anyone who reads here to get the gist. Nonetheless, trust me on this one: if you undertake to tell the truth about what really goes on, you do so at your own peril.

Be very careful of the Clinton agents on this board.

Most of you know who they are.

Mark Thieme (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 11:58 AM)

___________________________________________________
Mark I am still lmaorotf!! I took a nap, consumed some meds (aspirin). I am less hyper but I do know there is no 'WE", no I in team and you are getting very scary!
I may have to call Carrie in to check out your extreme sense of humor?

Clinton vs. Obama

Hillary 08 — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:45:27 GMT

If the BUSH machine thinks they have this election in their pocket, they must be mistaken.

By the way have you ever ask your self this question, why do so many democrats, independent and Republican hate BUSH so much?

HE cannot be trusted.

Bee (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 11:37 AM)

-------------------------------------------
You were so confused bee.

Clinton vs. Obama

H P Boston — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:49:25 GMT

Clinton vs. Obama

Mike K, Denver — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:51:57 GMT

Simon;

I am a well-read, intelligent, college-eduated Democrat who can't begin to fathom what this country will look like after 4 years of a Hillary Clinton-lead administration. I seriously fear it as much, if not more so than I do the current state that George W. Bush has left the country.

I fear it because she has no vision for what to do about healthcare (she was the one who caused it to fail in 1993).

I don't trust her leadership on the economy. We, as Americans, are making less than our parents and, in some cases our grandparents made, while at the same time working more and more just to keep our heads above water. Our homes are depreciating in value at record rates. I have yet to hear her speak on how she will begin to attack this. Other candidates have. Why hasn't she?

I fear how she will deal with international issues. She has already stated, unequivocally, she will not meet with our enemies without pre-set conditions on the table. This is not the way to do business in an age where America MUST regain its leadership internationally. It behooves the next President to enter ANY negotiation with an open mind. SHe is unwilling to do this. It's a dangerous strategy that will, in the end, keep us mired in the same exact mess we are in now.

I could go on, but here's a very good beginning as to why I will NOT support a Hillary Clinton administration. She is dangerous for the country.

Clinton vs. Obama

Mike K, Denver — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:54:39 GMT

<<laura.mtn. view.ca. (Sent Monday, November 19, 2007 12:44 PM)

Maybe it is just me, but I'll say it anyway:

What the hell is going on in this post? >>

Someone having a seizure while they post would be the best guess I can come up with.

Or maybe there's that saying about monkeys, typewriters, and Shakespeare. Maybe they're almost there.

Clinton vs. Obama

GL — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:00:33 GMT

This is not about the Democratic Party. This is about the future of America. It's about the movement!

For Obama and ourselves. Obama in 08!

bye the way, What is it exactly that Hilary did for women, poor whites, blacks and latinos in the last 13 years to earn their vote? Just asking.

Clinton vs. Obama

JFK Tx — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:06:24 GMT

If the Clinton machine is so great like the pundits in Washington often say, then why are they so scared of this skinny politician from Chicago (Obama) who has no name recognition. Why is the media CNN and MSNBC helping her so much? W

Clinton vs. Obama

Tim Joyce, Albuquerque, New Mexico — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:12:33 GMT

We all must remember Bob Novak loathes Democrats, so this could all be something he made up, to split the Democrats and their supporters. I wouldn't put it past him.

Clinton vs. Obama

Kelly, Pittsburgh — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:18:22 GMT

Good Sense (MO), Obama has proven experience in passing bipartisan legislation, Hillary does not. So his message is not a "pie in the sky." More to the point, Hillary can't unite the country or co-sponsor legislation because Republicans consider her last name to be toxic. As for foreign policy, Obama is not saying that our enemies will just suddenly give in to him. He's saying that you can't solve things diplomatically, if you don't engage in serious diplomacy. Bush hasn't at all, Clinton would do better than Bush on this (but better than Bush is not a high enough standard). Let's be absolutely clear. Neither Hillary nor Obama have established experience in foreign policy. Obama was an international relations major in college, so I'd imagine he's at least given it a great deal of thought and study. Maybe that is what informed his better judgement on opposing the Iraq War. Go back and read that speech, it was prophetic.

Clinton vs. Obama

My opinion — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:19:01 GMT

New Jersey, Illinois, Massachsettes, Oaklahoma,
You are right illegals are not supposed to vote. BUT DO THEY? Yes they have shown their power, have you not seen the demonstrations in the streets of California. Have you heard of stolen ID's.? Haven't you seen the Chamber of Commerce and other pro illegal organizations speak of T.V. Get Real.

They are being courted for their votes. Who cares about about the law? Certainly not the democrats who are for the illegals they have broken the law and entered the country and the demoncrats don't care.

Clinton vs. Obama

Global Citizen Linda, Columbus Ohio — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:23:34 GMT

In this round on the Obama-Clinton smack-down series this Democrat is putting this round down as a brilliant win for Senator Obama.

The Clinton Campaign thought that it could silence Senator Obama because he is a nice guy and by his own admission: “he doesn’t do nasty”.

The trick was to give an innuendo and smear whispered by Novak who most Democrats distrust due to Plame-gate. The Clintons then hoped to turn around and deny it while at the same time hitting back at Obama and highlighting Novak’s perceived lack credibility.

Clintons did not count on the possibility that Obama would address them directly to answer a “yes or no” and either put up or shut up. With his winning smile Obama has been warning Democrats, Republicans and others that he will address any attempts to smear him swiftly and decisively. I personally believe what he says despite the smile because I can see it in the intensity of his eyes as he puts out this warning to potential swift-boaters.

People seem to forget that Obama comes from the political landscape that is Chicago and that he is used to mean politicians. During the primary race for the US Senate, Obama faced a lot off opposition from a very rich opponent and another from a well-connected political family and we all know who came out ahead. The Chicago Democratic Party machine public opposed Obama in the primary but he danced around and won the nomination. Obama has been opposed and tested by dirty politicians and he came out ahead

Unlike the Dynasty politicians like Hillary, Obama did not get where he is because of nepotism – he has earned his success.

Obama has faced direct and indirect institutional and personal challenges and has succeeded.

I will quote what Obama said on Jay Leno, which is that “in a fight between Clinton and Michelle, he will put his money on his girl”. I will put my money on Obama because he is using a new political textbook for his campaign and the tactics of Clintons look like relics. If Obama used Washington textbook Hillary would win but Obama is inventing his own which will be used by other future campaigns

Remember when Bill Clinton publicly said that Obama was not experienced? Obama responded by directly reading Bill’s 1992 speech about Clinton’s own struggle to deal with the inexperience question. Did you ever see Bill say that personally again.

I await a President Obama because he will not initiate an attack but he is ready to give as good a smack-down as the opponents attempt to put on him.

The round also sets out a warning to other campaign to be careful when they choose to rumble with Obama. One of Obama offices has a prominet picture of Mohammed Ali in the boxing ring looking down on his opponent. Obam also loves to play poker. May be these two should provide an insight as to how Obama would respond in a fight.

I am waiting for the next round on the Obama-Clinton smack-down series

Clinton vs. Obama

Bee, NH — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:26:41 GMT

If the Clinton machine is so great like the pundits in Washington often say, then why are they so scared of this skinny politician from Chicago (Obama) who has no name recognition? Why is the media CNN and MSNBC helping her so much? W
JFK Tx
----------------------------------------------

The only answer to your question is this; Obama is the only politician that can reach across the divide. He draws votes from both Republican, independent and Democrats

Thus, Clinton campaign machine haven't figured out a way to take him down. He is a man of character and principle. The machine knows they can't easily pull him down by feeding scandal.

Clinton vs. Obama

Bruce, NV — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:30:28 GMT

RAH, Obama wasn't seen as the winner here in NV.

Clinton vs. Obama

nick, miami — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:33:19 GMT

Look Robert Novak is scum, but he's never been accused of manufacturing a source. He said that Hillary's campaign (not just a Democrat)was the source. He knows what he's saying. He was wrong to publish Valerie Plame Wilson's name, like I said he's scum, but he didn't lie about his source. Like Chris Matthews said this morning on Morning Joe, when he first learned of this. He said whatever you think of Novak, he would not lie about a source. Clinton is playing Rove. Bush politics, because she's in the race of her life. And her supporters who screamed about Rove/Bush ethics not only turn a blind eye, they try and blame the victim. Classy guys, just like your gal!

Clinton vs. Obama

BIGOLDTEXAN — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:46:06 GMT

Bee this was a very heplful insight into Bill & Hillary Clinton: Their Secret Life - #01 of 12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0-HkVcMOSw.

I never trusted these two before and you just help me to confirm my convictions about them.

I think that everyone should watch this video, it will help you to undestand the HRC machine and why she act the way that she does.

To all minorities I urge you to open your minds & hearts to really see what the Clintons are really like. They are not out to help the poor, uneducated or the illed & uninsured children of America, that is just a front to get your vote as they are only out to fatten their pockets and will do it by letting you think that they are for you.
They are not for you.....

Watch the video and decide for yourself.
Someone needs to stop them before they get into the white house again.

Senator Obama is the People's Candidate.
Ordinary people truly love Obama, recognize that he is genuine, honest,and that his professional choices are at the core of the man.

NO MORE BUSHS/CLINTONS................End This War!!
NO MORE REPUBLICANS/CLINTONS..........End This War!!

NO MORE BUSHS/CLINTONS........
NO MORE REUBLICANS/CLINTONS..........

OBAMA '08

Clinton vs. Obama

consider the source — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:51:24 GMT

Before everyone gets giddy w/ the thought they've caught the Clinton campaign up to dirty tricks, they should give thought to the absolute certainty this same 'reporter' had w/ regard to who first told him about Valerie Plame - and we all know how that played out.

Clinton vs. Obama

katharine, oslo norway — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:53:52 GMT

I really value my reputation and my character and my family," Obama said Sunday in Marion, Iowa. "In the era of the blogosphere, we have seen what happened with John McCain in 2000, what happened with John Kerry in 2004. If you don't get on this stuff quickly, then it starts drifting around, and that is not something I am going to accept."

Obama said he would "take them [the Clinton campaign] at their word when they said that they weren't responsible for it," but "we are letting Democratic voters know, we are letting Republican operatives know, and we're letting other people know that we will respond swiftly and forcefully when there are untruths being floated out there."

Obama was exactly right to respond. He showed integrity, strength, and truthfulness. I am an American citizen and a voter.

Clinton vs. Obama

CitizenJ — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:05:49 GMT

Is nap time over yet for our First Read moderators? It must be one heck of a busy day in that office for them to not post anything for over 2 hours.

Clinton vs. Obama

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:10:38 GMT

Tim, you should count up the headlines over the last couple of days. Obama this, Obama that. Oh but I guess those count in favorable Hillary stories because they are kind of about her too, right?

Clinton vs. Obama

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:12:11 GMT

Mark:

You crack me up, man. Seriously. Brainstorming for the GOP platform.

P.S. I'm still waiting for you to pick me up!

Clinton vs. Obama

Lee in CA — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:28:48 GMT

Bob Noval does an excellent impression of what scurries across the floor when you turn the lights on in a kitchen in the city Rudy made great.

The only neo-nazi tool of the BushCo cabal who has been wrong at least as often and shows the same degree of humility for being wrong 100% of the time since 2001 is Charles Krauthamer (the 'Constipated Bullsnake" to some).

Clinton vs. Obama

MIke C, Orlando, Florida — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 13:24:46 GMT

Read a great article in the local paper this morning promoting an Obama/Cheney ticket. Obama walks in as mister niceguy to talk with Iran/Korea/Syria etc. heads of state about how we should all get along, with Tony Soprano (Cheney) standing behind him slowly smacking a baseball bat into his hand.

Clinton vs. Obama

Scott, Rational in Wisconsin — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:59:58 GMT

Hey Bee- "the sort of thinking man's Jerry from Corpus Christi"- Anyone that swallows what Bob Novak has to say need only remember Valerie Plame. The man is a water carrier for the Repubs. His ilk will say anything to sow chaos and avoid the whip that is coming down on all of you come Nov '08.

Clinton vs. Obama

Shannon, Phoenix, Arizona — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 16:04:55 GMT

Wow, I can't believe you people with all of your "pie in the sky" ideals. I'm a democrat, but I'm also a realist. I'm also a black guy, so I can say what all of you have buried waaayyy down in your psyche. Obama was created as a national phenomenon simply to give all of you bleeding hearts something to coalesce behind. Unfortunately, the vast majority of white America will never in this lifetime or in their children's vote for a black man. Period. Ask the former congressman from Tennessee. Obama's candidacy and campaign has done more to fracture the democratic party than anything Hillary, Edwards, or even Dodd's best strategists can come up with. He keeps saying he got in the game to change it. So, why then does he revert to the same kind of mudslinging every time he sees a shadow? Why does his so-called politics of change only seem to be on display in front of friendly crowds who love a good, well-practiced, stump speech? I fear that Mr. Obama is completely disingenuous about all the change. Instead, I believe his candidacy is a product of focus groups, polls, and novelty. Further, his candidacy's popularity comes from the naivete that strickens most left-leaning democrats into believing that all we have to do is show up and vote and Obama will win. Good luck with that.

Clinton vs. Obama

BIGOLDTEXAN — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:15:57 GMT

Shannon, Phoenix, Arizona.
Keep Hope Alive...........This is a diverse country.

It is no wonder why black america is so out about a black man running for president, with this kind of negative attitude a black person(man) can`t get a break with their own kind dealing the kind of message
that you just type.
Be it Black man, Mexican man, China man.
It is stated that if your are an american citizen you can run and win the presidency.
What a great country we have when a man of colour can run for president of that country only to have another man of colour to send out negative messages that he can`t win because america is not ready for it.
I say that we are and if there is a chance for this man of colour to be president I say do the homework,
research the candidates stand on issues and make the right choice for you not just because you think that the country is not ready for it.
If they ( the country) weren`t ready for it than why in the hell would he run?
This kind of judgement from a black man is what keeps black america down, have some repect for your race and don`t be afraid of the change, you know they say that the only thing that is constant is change and now is the time and place for change.

I am not tyoping this just to get you angry, I am typing this so that you may have second thoughts as to where you stat as a black man in this country.
Your ancestors build this country with blood, sweat and tears and whips on their backs, they did not ask to come to this country they were forced to come to do the work no white man wanted to do and for you to stated that Obama has no chance to be president would only cheapen the hard work that they have done to get you as far as you have gotten in this country.
Think about it, would a black man be able to even run for president if it weren`t for your ancestors.

I will vote for Obama ............ OBAMA'08

Clinton vs. Obama

TruthWatch — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:57:39 GMT

Bee,

Why should i believe you? You are not an honest broker in this case. He is a senator from IL and i don't expect to hear the truth from you nor Obama's machine.

Another conflict of interest..

Sound familiar???

Clinton vs. Obama

D-Dog MT — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:43:19 GMT

Hillary is not going to be a good Pres. Even if Bill was a good Pres. dosent mean she will be. A lot of woman will vote for Hillary just because she is a woman and not look at what she is for or agianst. you also have to look at our previous Pres. Bush senior, Bill, Bush junior. People will want a change, they don't want Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton. They will prob not vote for her.

D-Dog S31-18
Rep.08'

Clinton vs. Obama

Jay, New Jersey — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:09:15 GMT

Dear BEE,

You wrote "Why should I trust her, now? I guess the election year is around the corner and politician like Hillary will say anything to get elected...."
Agree...so what makes you think Mr Obama is not doing the same...I mean saying anything to get elected?!...or you are blind in love with him that everything he does or says is the god's word!!!...is that?!
Well...at least on Obama's side they don't have much more then mere words of mouth and arguments...when not backed up by long political or social experience.

It is not that difficult to receive great applause and mass audience sometimes, a comedian can do better often! A person stays next door to me sounds more true and intelectual then any of these candidates. He (my neighbour) sometimes comes up with great ideas of how can we American do better or how our government should act on some perticular issues and believe me,he sometimes sounds very convincing and we all see such people like my neighbour around us but that doesn't mean that everyone of them can become President of United States...!!!

To all the people who read this board...a simple question...stop hating Hilary or anyone...but ask a question to yourself...even if Obama gets the nomination, can he really be the next President? and if your answer is "yes" then how would you imagine your life and the United States in the real world in few years from now?!

If you get the answer, please do not blog nonsense on any of such boards.

Thank you.