Voter corners Fred on religion

Sahdow, Hamden, CT — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:56:49 GMT

Good for Welch, agnostics like us are everywhere and growing (42% of Americans are not certain there is a God), and stuff like what Thompson is spouting will not cut it with the American people anymore.

He says: "I think if on an individual basis a class or a school wants to have it recommended" - but classes and schools are not individuals, they're organized government institutions, and prohibited from estabilishing a religious ceremony under the first amendment. However, if individual students want to start praying, and doing so with other friends who choose to, that's fine, as long as school officials in no way participate. This was all settled law in the Constitution two-hundred and twenty years ago, so perhaps we should spend our time talking about something else instead of trying to reargue it.

Voter corners Fred on religion

Rick, WS, NC — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:36:28 GMT

Haven't we had enough of the religion inspired compassionate conservative nonsense for one lifetime? Hundreds of billions spent killing and destroying for no good reason in Iraq and you religious people have the nerve to criticize others morals? Are yuo kidding me?

Voter corners Fred on religion

Tuck,Realityville, KS — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:47:37 GMT

thompson, you've been usurped by hucklebee... my neighbor took down your sign and put up a hucklbee.

Voter corners Fred on religion

Baaawwwwhooooooooooooooo — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:34:14 GMT

"-- our founding fathers, of course, would never have separated religion totally"

ooohhhhh! The Constituiton doesn't say "Totally" separate church and state! Thanks for riding in to the rescue and settling THAT little issue, Full Moon Fred.

Voter corners Fred on religion

Bahahhahahaa — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:59:45 GMT

We should get the religion of GoreBull warming out of schools. It's based on lies, and even includes a way to pay for your sins. Stop terrorizing America's children with your Socialist religion.

Voter corners Fred on religion

Mark Thieme — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:14:06 GMT

Everyone who gets out of bed in the morning has faith in something... some of it quite bizarre...

...including fundamentalist "faiths" of whatever stripe. Christian fundamentalism is as dangerous in the world as Islamic fundamentalism...

Ideology can be taught, but faith is lived...

What business do our schools have teaching any "religious" ideology?

Live... let live. Now that's American.

Our so-called fore-parents were ideologically closer to the 17th-18th century Enlightenment philosophers of Europe than to Jesus.

You can look it up.

I say, let's keep it that way.

Thus I maintain I am a true "strict constructionist" or, as the great sage Scalia might say, an "originalist." (chortle)

Jesus name never appears in any original American documents (must have left it out by mistake when they set up the Christian theocracy).

No mistake, there was reason for that.

Voter corners Fred on religion

Lee in CA — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:21:56 GMT

Global warming is "Socialist religion"?

Pull that foil hat a little tighter and reflect your enlightenment on all that Darwinian darkness.

Voter corners Fred on religion

Scott Morristown, Tn — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:34:19 GMT

No body really wants to think about religion untill the end. When one goes to the serve a Death sentence, when they are old in age, or when something terrible happens in life, at that time we shout "OH GOD". What Fred Thompson is saying is that if someone wants to pray in life for Thanks not just for forgiving why should they be denided? If you do not believe, do not partisapate, but do not deny someone the right to. Be tollorant is that not the message you preach, Sahdow,Rick,Tuck,Baawhoo,and Bahahaa?

Voter corners Fred on religion

Mark Thieme — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:13:17 GMT

Scott:

The end is near.

Death sits quietly on your left shoulder.

See it?

Your new best friend!

Voter corners Fred on religion

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:29:01 GMT

There is not now and never has been an injunction against individual prayer in Public schools. I remember praying in school for good test results, school closing snow falls, and that Vivian Bisby would notice me when I smiled at her. (God answered that one, she noticed the piece of spinach on my teeth...Thanks God.)
What the law does restrict is organized, teacher or official led prayer. I have no issue with non-denominational Baccalaureate type prayers at graduations. We can be reasonable and flexible. However, teacher or administration led prayers in k-12 classrooms or assemblies is wrong. Excusing students from the room that do not wish to participate is even more wrong. That sets that child aside from the others and children need little help in identifying reasons to be cruel to those they perceive to be different. Remember the little Jehovah's Witness kid that would not do the Pledge of allegiance and how may times he got the shit kicked out of him at recess? I do. I helped. One of my top ten shameful moments to this day.
Not all Americans are Christian. Some have different superstitions and magical beliefs each of which is as valid or invalid as mainstream Christianity is or isn't. Many Americans are completely rational and desire for their children a good grounding in science that is untainted by fairytale and myth.
As a matter of national security and future competitiveness we need to guard the sanctity of our secular schools and rejoice in the freedom we have to pull our children out of those public schools and send them to the Madrasah of our choice if they are not being indoctrinated to our satisfaction.

Voter corners Fred on religion

Mark Thieme — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 01:07:09 GMT

Gary:

Most powerful Christian mantra:

"Neither do I condemn you."

Now when Christians learn a little about their own appropriated "religion" and practice a little more Jesus (see above) and a lot less "Dr." Dobson, well, some of us might appreciate them a little more.

But then, all in all, it is best to judge not that I may not be judged... so, I'll try that.

Maybe you can be a Christian and be an American too.

Voter corners Fred on religion

John Alexander, Edinboro, PA — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:07:03 GMT

Fred shows he is not above creating a non-answer when he needs the christian voters or to save his candidacy, perhaps a 'gun in every pot and a pick up in every driveway' promise will get him the votes he needs to come in third. Perhaps the repubs believe that praying in school will help students meet the federal tests requirements that are being used in education today. God is on Georgies side, why arn't things better? Maybe God does not think party politics is as important to our countries growth and safety as the repubs want us to believe!

Voter corners Fred on religion

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:44:47 GMT

Mark:
Indeed, a powerful Mantra for a Humane faith. Unfortunately, I fear, true Christianity died with Jesus Christ. Since that time Christianity has suffered the fate of all religions. It became a method of control, manipulated by the powerful rather they be princes of the church or princes of the state.
If my opinion is judgement than so be it. All humans judge people and situations daily. Those that don't are lying or are under sedation.
Our constitution provides a framework for people to live and let live and it is constantly under attack by many people of faith AND of no faith who want it to be a mirror that reflects and protects their view. It must be defended at all costs from fundamental change and erosion. It is the only rock, in our divided times, that has room for everyone to grab onto. I apologize for any offense I may have offered against anyones faith. I only request the same respect for my lack of it.

Voter corners Fred on religion

Mark Thieme — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:08:07 GMT

Gary:
eloquently put. Amen.

Voter corners Fred on religion

MICK — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:27:38 GMT

When they 'took prayer out of school' I was furious. Furious that government was telling my children when and where they could and/or could not pray. No government can police prayer. Children are being brainwashed to Believe government can police prayer-life. Prayer is a personal conversation between the person praying and their God. We can pray anywhere, anytime. We do not have to open our mouths to pray. Government has no place in prayer.

Why is it everyone automatically jumps to "Christians?" Muslims are given prayer times and places to wash their feet in public schools. The Koran is in public school classrooms. LDS-Mormons instill LDS doctrine in Utah's public schools. Where's the outcry?

Muslims are not taught to 'turn the other cheek." LDS will call you an ugly politically-incorrect name. Pick on the "Christians." Ms. Welch and others mention "non-Christian" kids feeling uncomfortable with "Christian" prayer, again leaving out "Muslim prayer," etc.

Too bad, for those "Christian" kids, who are being taught the government ruled they cannot pray in school, but it isn't separation of church and state (Which is NOT in the constitution, but was in a private letter supporting the fact that government should not police religion, where a church was being "granted" rights which were already given to them by their God...look it up), when Muslim children and adults are allowed special priveleges to pray to their God in public schools.

Jewish children are allowed Menorrahs (sic?), African American children are allowed their "Christmas" decorations (I humbly apologize, the name escapes me at present). They are allowed in public places. But take that "Christ" out of "Christmas," the biggest celebration of the year in the U.S. and around the world. It's OK to say "happy holiday"...for now...wait until some idiot realizes "holiday" is a derivitive of "Holy Day." And "Santa Claus" will have to change his name. No "Saint" Nicholaus allowed. That, too, is "Christian."

Just pump up the volume, sell trees and trinkets galore and forget the day is a celebration of Christ's birth...Christ-mass. As my dear Grandmother used to say, it is turning into a Christ-mess.

What a sad statement when, as governor of Massachusetts, Mitt Romney could allow funding of Gay/Lesbian SexEd to GRADE-SCHOOL CHILDREN, as young as KINDERGARTEN--WITHOUT PARENTAL CONSENT or NOTIFICATION. But kids are told the U.S. government won't let them pray. Another of those 'old sayings:' "We're going to hell in a hand-basket." So, just whip up some eggnog and enjoy the ride!

I say more prayer, less crime. Let the children pray. We see where a generation without prayer has led us. The prison systems are overflowing, and it isn't all illegal immigrants. No accountability, nowhere to turn during the tough times for peace and solace and direction. Why not steal? Why not kill? Why not get a girl pregnant and forget the child? Why not get strung out on crank...better than "prayer?" NOT.

Voter corners Fred on religion

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:16:12 GMT

MICK-No one can stop your children from praying in school. As you say "Prayer is a personal conversation between the person praying and their God.".
But woe betide any teacher or official that attempts to LEAD my grand children in prayer to THEIR God. That is the sole business and responsibility of their parents. As for Muslim kids, the same holds true. If your prayer requires ritual and paraphernalia then get thee to a Madrasah or a parochial school or Bob Jones Liberty Pre-school and quit wasting the time of the rightfully Secular Public Schools of the rightfully Secular United States of America. We are far enough behind in the world as it is what with Jesus Horses and 6000 year old earths, and snakes and apples and things that go bump in the night.

Voter corners Fred on religion

Mark Thieme — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:31:16 GMT

Gary:
OK. You provoke me to write again: spot on and well crafted at that!

Voter corners Fred on religion

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:38:50 GMT

Mark Thieme--Phew! For a second there I thought you were gonna tell me to go to hell. :)

Voter corners Fred on religion

Ben, Duluth MN — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:00:56 GMT

Pretty much a fan of what MICK just said.
Can you imagine the confusion that would ensue if someone hundreds of years from now mistook my emails as written law?
If the kid wants to pray, then let them pray.
If the kid has to wash his feet, he better figure something out on his own time without using my tax dollars.

Voter corners Fred on religion

Doc, Bonham, TX — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:16:49 GMT

Well said, Mick,
I am a Christian and having debated agnostics for many years, I am amused to take note that their written references to divinity denote respectful capitalizations of the word "God", which is contradictory to their objection the existence of divinity. This most aptly reflects their oxymoron stance on politics: Often confused and detracted on the real point of issue when in a debate.

I agree that the church and state should be separate. No religious politic should be the primary motivational issue in choosing the next leader.
Conversely, a democracy which distains the right to a free society where individual intellect and beliefs are condemned; where the freedom of choice is denied because of opposing views; where the minority of the populace dictates policy instead of popular desire of the majority, is a democracy on the road to failure.

People are obsessively absorbed in the semantics of language. Words, more than swords have started most wars, domestic disturbances, and loss of friendships. Like raising a child one misspoken word, one misquoted unintentional phrase twists their heads in another direction.
Rather – we many, now entrusted with a somber choice where character, knowledge, integrity, and fidelity have got to be primary qualifications, must select and vote our nations’ trusted future in the abilities of one person.
So why pick on God? (Who is not a candidate), or on anyone’s choice to practice a particular personal secular belief. My personal choice is that the candidate honestly be on God’s side, for if that person is then God will be there with our choice.
This reflects the original intent of this debate: Faith is the paramount issue of greatest magnitude.
Which candidate entrust worldly faith in to become the next president?