Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Asok Ryler — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:24:48 GMT

Hillary's slipping in the polls?!? Time to roll out Bill again! He's been such a help.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Scott, MN — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:25:42 GMT

Joe Biden's right, but what else is new?

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

juan,ft lauderdale,fl — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:27:01 GMT

Biden's foreign policy's experience is hugh compared to both party's leading canidates and his recommendations for Iraq seems very plausible and realistic to attain.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Alan Moore, Duncan, SC — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:29:54 GMT

This is not a good time for Hillary to be trending downward. I thought about voting for her in the past, but the more I hear about the fabricated successes of her co-presidency with Bill, the more I hear about a governement program for every ill of the country, the more I hear of her flip-flopping on Iraq, the more I hear about the planted questions for her, then the more I think I'll vote for someone else.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

James, Georgia — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:30:23 GMT

I'm sure given all the other info in the post, this will be another poll driven series of posts, or responses relating to President Clinton's revisionist history. I love Bill Clinton, but he must really think Iowans are dumb, if he thinks we will buy into his being opposed to the war (publicly) before March of 03. Give us a break!

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Matthew, Reading, PA — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:34:23 GMT

I find it rare, but I have some agreement with Biden on his Iraq points. Yes, the surge seems to have quelled alot of the violence (as has a harden stance with Iran about their unofficial support of insurgents), but the political progress has not been there. I agree with his de-centralized Iraq idea. Three seperate areas witha large degree of autonomous rule, with a limitted central government that sorts out disputes between the regions and handles international affairs. That DOES sound familiar, doesn't it?

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

diane — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:35:29 GMT

Along with the uproar over Bill's statements, you have to wonder if HRC's increasingly personal mud slinging will have the air of desperation about them. The polling shows her sliding at the same time she is getting nasty, highlights her vunerability and the sense of her getting nervous.
Especially since the Obama camp seems to have a bit of a smile on their faces when delivering the rebuttals.
It cannot help HRC to see that Obama is on the cover of Time this coming week and her husband, Bill, is redoing the 90s with his revisionist history.
the HRC campaign feels like things are out of their control as far as the trip ups and moments.
I have felt all along if she handled the Philly debate with aplomb and humor, everyone has a bad night air, she could have sailed through that without much, if any damage.
What hurt was from her camp's immediate attack response of Casting Russert as evil and then, we were treated to all sorts of games for 2 weeks. that is what started the problems and things got out of hand from there. Since then, they cannot seem to gain back the control of the campaign and have resorted to mud slinging towards just Obama. This tactic just shows Obama as posing real threats to Hillary and gaining the upper hand.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

jerry/corpus christi texas — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:37:01 GMT

because she has distinct memories of Abrams ‘coming back from those meetings literally glowing and boasting that 'we have Clinton's support.'"

Why the heck would anybody care whether Bill Clinton was supportive or not? The way that man has put his foot in his mouth lately, they had better send him back to his office in Harlem and leave him alone.

This clip from WHO-TV shows the station emphasized that Clinton's speech in Iowa was two hours late due to a plane problem in DC. The Clinton attack on Obama didn't get play until about half way through the story.

I guess somebody from team Hillary is over theme lambasting the news director this morning.

Interestingly, per NBC’s Christina Jamison, Clinton didn’t deliver some additional soundbites that were promised according to the excerpts the campaign released before the speech.

a little hard to believe anything Hillary promises.

EDWARDS: "When John Edwards returned to his alma mater in 2005 to found a poverty think tank, the multimillionaire attorney sought more than just a salary: He also wanted tickets to University of North Carolina sporting events," the AP reports. But a school spokesman said, "Senator Edwards received no tickets -- and no promise of tickets -- in connection with his university employment."

If this think tank was supported by the University, he may have had some problems if he had received those tickets. What is this with Mutimillionaires demanding freebies. bad enough that billionaire wanted a federal taxpayer earmark for woodstock, now we have another one who is too cheap to buy his own sporting events tickets. And they say he is for the common man? I don't think so.

Everybody in this campaign has ties to someone who is crooked in one way or another. Obama is just part of Chicago politics, can't escape that fact.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

ki houston — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:38:03 GMT

ha ha our secrect weapon , Bill . face it hes on our side he knows whats best for the country . Think about it , when your wife wants somthing but you dont want to pay for it or dont want her to have it you cant tell her that .You have to find a subtle way to sabbotage it. Good job bill i knew you would not let the country down . I bet he wishes she would just shut up and go to her house so he can go do his thang. Obama 08 thanks Bill we love u .

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Tom — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:41:57 GMT

I see Hillaryis44 is busy at work these days. Maybe they should spend the time buying muzzles for Bill or cases of truth serum for both of them to share.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

karlos — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:54:09 GMT

finally biden gets space, and in his area of expertise, foreign affairs. the issues of medical coverage, immigration and all other domestic policies will be determined not by any one of the candidates but congress in committee. all domestic issues even the budget are going to be negociated and compromised to reflect everybody's oppinion running so the small differences will result in a bill reflecting demo agenda if we win trifecta in 08' [house,senate,pres.] the area of dominance for pres. is foreign affairs and international so when you vote for pres. that should be your focus [civics 101]. the candidates themselves sing in chorus "joe's right" in these areas of pakistan and iraq. if he's right and thats the focus of the presidency then why are we biding our time; vote biden instead!

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Nashville_fan — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:57:52 GMT

Here's hoping that the Clinton campaign continues to trumpet the fact that Barack Obama's health care plan doesn't penalize poor people for not being able to afford healthcare.

The funny thing to me is that on one hand Senator Clinton is concerned about all the "middle class" people making over $100,000 a year who may have to pay the same percentage of their above average income as the rest of America to keep Social Security solvent being a "hardship", but she can't understand how someone making half that with skyrocketing housing and fuel costs may have trouble paying a government mandated health insurance bill . . . sounds like someone is out of touch with the man and woman on the street.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Nashville_fan — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:07:09 GMT

One more thing . . . it is comical to me watching how each morning a new "story" appears trying to tie Barack Obama to some new financial scandal . . . desperate times call for desperate measures I guess.

You can almost hear the papers rustling and smell the midnight oil burning as ever area of Barack's life is carefully analyzed for any signs of weakness. Seems like this "naive" and "inexperienced" Senator has the old Democratic political machine flumoxed . . . how can they maintain their influence, perks, and breaks if someone who doesn't owe them anything is elected?

I see more ugliness ahead - here's hoping Barack has an asbestos pantsuit in his closet too - he's sure gonna need it.

NEWSFLASH: Word on the street is that Obama's house gave out better Halloween candy than his neighbors . . . how was this upgraded candy purchased? Were campaign funds used? Inquiring minds wanna know . . . LOL!

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

jdr — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:21:43 GMT

Hillary should shut up about the mandate. Everyone wants more affordable health care not many want a mandate. Another example of how she is polarizing and unfit to lead.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Joe Warminster PA — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:23:02 GMT

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Ron, TX — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:46:50 GMT

You cannot deceive and dupe the American people at every turn and get away with it. America is sick of Karl Rove politics. America is sick of being lied to. America is sick of planted questions and fake news conferences and a President that has a secret agenda.

It's time for REAL CHANGE. Obama WILL deliver. The American people are not stupid.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Ken L — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:49:20 GMT

Obama named "Man of the Year"

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:52:19 GMT

Biden is right, as usual. The progress in terms of security is encouraging (assuming it is not fabricated) but it does not seem that there has been any real movement toward political reconciliation of the various factions in Iraq. Until that happens, the only way to maintain security in Iraq would be to keep our troops there - and that is not something that the American people want.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Bee — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:52:58 GMT

Hillary is doom to fail. She even went further in planting question in republican debate. I don't see her recovering from her lie upon lie.

Folks, you've heard Hillary going after Obama on the health care issue. Like i said before, Hillary is going to loose this argument.

Here is a fact check from Washington post

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/clinton_vs_obama_on_health_car.html

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Bee — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:01:21 GMT

Here is another fact check regarding Clinton's heresis on health care.

http://thepage.time.com/from-obama-spokesman-bill-burton/

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Laura Hubka — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:02:47 GMT

Thank You Bill! I think he really does not want her to win. Why else would he say such things? He was on Jay Leno in 2003 talking about how the Iraqis were thugs, and criminals and we should go over and bomb them for a couple of months.."that is all it will take and it will be over!" HA HA HA Bill. He either forgot or just really wants to continue to ruin his wifes life. If she doesnt get the presidency she will divorce him finally!

Secondly, Barack Obama does not want to FORCE people to get health care if they do not want to. Hillary wants to fine people for not getting it. Good thing the "middle Class" makes 100,000 dollars a year and can pay these fines.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Cindy Miller — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:06:30 GMT

Where were Biden and Edwards at last night debate? They are the best of the bunch, but yet they were not invited? Those are my two choices for President.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Robin, Montpelier, VT — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:08:48 GMT

You know, let Bill hang in there and continue to put more skepticism in the minds of the voters for HIllary. He's doing a wonderful job. And he will actually be going around the world and being the "face of America"?...God help us all.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Peter Gallagher — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:09:07 GMT

Unfortunately, Chris Mathew's is the spoke person for the Republican Party and Obama. He does his best to trash the Clinton's with his raspy voice and he is getting as bad as Bill O'Reilly. Prehaps MSNBC feels it must pander to the "right wing"..?? Have stopped listening to Chris: I had rather take a long walk instead. Keith is such a great spokesperson for freedom..and we just return from our walk in time to listen to him.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Sean, Boston — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:20:38 GMT

Obama is in no way going to deliver.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

francine, Des Moines, Iowa — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:23:05 GMT

I was a hard-core Hillraiser until the recent revelations. I don't think the remarks made by Bill were mistakes---just as I don't think Hillary's need to attack other candidates was her plan. The campaign is falling because just as the Clintons find it necessary to bash other candidates---America is wondering why. I will certainly support another candidate who will concentrate on the welfare of the People of America---as oppose to the Clintons working for themselves.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Sierra, SF — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:29:17 GMT

'...A new Clemson University South Carolina poll shows Clinton slipping and Obama pulling within a statistical tie. Clinton is at 19%, Obama 17%, and Edwards 12%. But about half say they are still undecided. When the poll was last taken in August, Clinton held a double-digit lead and stood at 26%.

In New Hampshire, Clinton holds double-digit lead in a new poll. Here are the numbers: Clinton 34%, Obama 22%, Edwards 15%, and Richardson 9%. The same poll in June showed Clinton with an 18-point lead...'

This is why Hillary is going negative
She's slowly starting to lose steam....
But, her solution is to throw mud...

Rather than helping her, this is making her look weak and desperate
She doesn't look 'inevitable', does she ?
She doesn't look 'Presidential' when she's attacking Obama

On top of that ......
All this negativity make open the door for EDWARDS in Iowa !!
If it does, watch Hillary start to slide in NS and SC !!
The two way race will become Obama and Edwards !!

Wouldn't that be a 'Christmas miracle' ??

Obama/Edwards '08
Honesty counts
Integrity counts

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Nashville_fan — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:42:28 GMT

All summer, everytime Barack Obama opened his mouth, he was scolded like a child by the media for being naive. Every debate, he is rated as "lackluster" by the media. Chris Matthews went on the air for weeks telling us how Obama had lost is mojo. And NOW all of a sudden, when Hillary Clinton's campaign is imploding, the media is favoring Obama? That's hysterical.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Amos, Vancouver, WA — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:43:19 GMT

Mandatory health care only works with a single payer system.

There are all sorts of reasons why that is. Edwards' and Hillary's plans would cost taxpayers a bundle in necessary bureaucracy. And the middle class would end up paying even more for inadequate coverage plans. It wouldn't work. The tax increase required by Edwards' plan boggles the mind in this economic climate. Talk about fuzzy math!

Only Kucinich's plan could be mandatory without a huge hidden expense and several years' delay in implementation. But apparently progressives are not yet ready to support him - which leads one to wonder if they are really progressives after all.

Obama is right on this one. It's either his way or Kucinich's. Otherwise, things will get worse, not better.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

RAH — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:46:45 GMT

Peter Gallagher....Keith Oberman appeals to you because he comes across as a Clinton supporter and occasional has misrepresented Obama. It's clear you don't like Chris because he comes across as if he likes obama and dislikes the Clintons. You are certainly entitled to who you like to listen too, but everyone is just as bias as you in listening to who talks the best about their respective candidate.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Lee Holmes — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:57:34 GMT

Biden,while a decent man,is delusional. The UN is simply in no way and in no shape to ''oversee'' Iraqs political future. Their role in Sudan is now a shambles with more UN ''peacekeepers''pulling out and the central government in Khartoum calling the shots on who THEY want in as replacements. Darfur is falling apart as a result of UN stupidity and outright corruption[funneling food stocks and medicines to African Union contingent commanders,which are then sold black market. Rape is also a problem]. Biden is living a pipe dream. Meanwhile,undetected by any Democrat,is the patent fact that political progress,agonizing in its slow movement,is taking place in Iraq with Shia and Sunni leaders concluding the third of three so-far scheduled talks on reconciliation that were begun in August under the auspices of the government of Ireland. The effect of these talks has produced at least three concrete results that are ignored by Biden.

1. oil revenues are beginning to flow into Iraq,especially in Baghdad,meeting a Biden concern without federalization.There have been no new pipeline attacks that would hamper Iraqs increasing oil production in over three months.

2.the US and Iraq have reached their lowest levels of deaths since 2003,the year of the invasion,with further declines reaching into the Saddam era,particularly in Anbar and the South Marsh area below Baghdad.

3.Refugees continue in large numbers to return to Iraq. Whole neighborhoods in Baghdad have been reclaimed even in mixed Sunni-Shia areas which are in no doubt a result of negotiation between the two religious groups who have worked to push both al Qaeda and the Medhi Army to the sidelines.

It is a distinct possibility that Bidens plan could badly damage this progress delivering Iraq into retrograde violence at its 2005-06 levels or worse. I find it strange that the man,who constantly hammered upon the Iraq Study Groups[ISG] findings and using it to bludgeon the president,nevertheless ignores one of its most key findings,that,it was unanimously opposed to any federalization or partitioning plan as envisioned by Biden who clings to this as a drowning man to a lifering.

Also see: www.michaelyon.blogspot.com [newest updates from Baghdad and Fallujah].

www.usip.org [The Iraq Study Group:Findings].

The Associated Press/REUTERS/AFP Oct.17,2007:''UN Chief Concerned By Pullout of Group By Sudan Government''

www.un.org [The United Nations:''Is The UN Failing In Sudan''?

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Matthew, Reading, PA — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:59:07 GMT

Universal helathcare is a joke. Until you address the REASON healthcare is so expensive, it doesn't matter if the taxpayers are footing the bill or if indivduals are, it will still be expensive. The only difference is with universal healthcare, you will have long waits for even the most basic things and poor overall service.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Yiannis, Baltimore — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:12:58 GMT

juan,ft lauderdale,fl

Obama owns Biden on foreign policy. Biden is a continuation of the Albright/Holbrook policy, that allowed Musharraf and bin Laden to come to power, North Korea to launch nuclear tests.

He wants to divide Iraq as if drawing the borders in Oklahoma and Nebraska. That foreign policy does not work. It has resulted to a European-created MESS in the Balkans and a European-created MESS in Africa and will be a US-created MESS in Iraq.

The point is to LEARN from history not repeat the same mistakes.

Not just because of ethnic tension, but because of access to natural resources. A foreign power especially one despised as much as the US CANNOT dictate borders.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Kato in Des Moines — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:13:09 GMT

Joe Warminster in Pa writes:

"How can Joe Biden & the other democratic candidates call the Iraq war a failure because the Iraqis haven't 'come together politically'? How 'together' is our country? We have been a democracy for many years now and seem further apart politically than ever."

I'm sorry Joe Warminster, but your analogy between Iraqi and American politics is misplaced. Last time I checked I didn't see ethinic cleansing or political assasinations taking place in America between Republicans and Democrats. I haven't seen a foreign army on American shores trying to keep the peace between Republicans and Democrats. I haven't seen armed political factions taking to the streets of Washington, D.C. or political operatives placing IEDs in our major cities to blow up churches and innocent bystanders.

Look, our military is doing as fine a job in Iraq as it possibly can, but the sectarian violence will never be totally eliminated through military force. The sectarian violence will continue and U.S. soldiers and marines will continue to die until such time as the Iraqis forge some sort of political compromise.

Biden is the only candidate who has put forth a plan to facilitate that compromise and bring stability to Iraq. He calls for the federalization of Iraq so that the Sunnis, Shia and Kurds can each have a degree of autonomy or self-governance within a decentralized Iraqi state. The country's oil revenue would be shared among the three factions. The plan is modeled after the United Nation's peace plan in Bosnia which has provided stability and relative peace between the Bosnian Serbs, Muslims and Croats for more than a decade now. This is how we will win the peace in Iraq and bring our troops home.

The thing I took away from the Republican's You-Tube debate last night was how much "cheerleading" went on among the leading Republican candidates when it came to the Iraq conflict. No one offered a solution. With the exception of Ron Paul, in debate after debate, the Republican candidates always talk about how we have to stay in this fight "for our military", "for our honor", "so we don't have another Vietnam", "because we never lost a war", "because if we don't fight them in Baghdad, we'll be fighting them in Boston". What a bunch of malarkey. Peace in Iraq will only come when the three factions in Iraq figure out a way to share power. That requires political compromise, dialogue, and United States leadership. Unfortunately neither Condi Rice nor George Bush get it. Joe Biden, however, does.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Jerry, Corpus Christie, Tx. — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:13:22 GMT

My name is Jerry, and I love everything there is about the Clintons. I hereby renounce my prior incorrect political affiliations. All Hail Hillary!

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Kato in Des Moines — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:19:55 GMT

Lee Holmes: The very talks to which you refer are exactly what Biden has been advocating for the past two years. How can you be so blind? This is the political dialogue and compromise that has to take place in order for peace to come to Iraq. The sharing of oil revenues to which you refer, again a key point in the Biden plan.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Dan, TX — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:20:20 GMT

Biden is very knowledgeable. It is odd he doesn't poll better, he has much better experience than Clinton. On the other hand, what we need is a president who will listen to people like Biden and have the judgment, humanity, and common sense to make the right decisions after weighing all the information and listening to all sides of the issue. Clearly, that is not George Bush.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Scott, PA — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:23:06 GMT

Lee,
Most of what you have stated is untrue or distorted. If I sound mean, I apologize, because at least there is ONE Iraq plan on the table and, YES, it needs to be analyzed and scrutinized from all sides, so thank you for that.

1st Biden was the only one to demand US intervention in Sudan and did so vehemently in the first debate. Please also consider that he's moving to expand his Violence Against Women's Act internationally.

2nd, Shia vs Sunni killings and bombings continue to happen everyday? Political settlement and reconciliation is not at hand. You simply stating that it is, is very suspect.

3rd, it is common knowledge that this year is the bloodiest year for the US in Iraq, this is widely reported in the media, unless you have other figures.

4th, Though there are major attempts to bring Iraqis back home, tens of thousands have already left this year and continue to leave... it seems like you're basing your facts on a single report on the program set up to lure back the Iraqi educated populace.

Lastly, to be honest, it seems like the WH wants to move towards Bidens plan as well (especially since it recieved a huge victory in the Senate). They have already started to give local control back to some of the regions to the police. And I'm not sure why this plan would create more problems as it's been a proven success in the Balkans and when the US was a Confederacy.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

CitizenJ — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:25:20 GMT

Hillary will lose this argument if she keeps pushing it. She keeps saying over and over that Obama's plan leave 15 million people uninsured. Sooner or later, someone is going to ask her, "Senator Clinton, how do you plan on enforcing your mandate, and how can you be sure that those who can't afford coverage will get it if they are mandated?"

Expect a response like, "Uh, well, hmmm. Obama's plan leaves 15 million uninsured."

Oops.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

jerry/corpus christi texas — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:31:40 GMT

I found an old story about domestic violence......
and Hillary Clinton....
Makes me wonder why Barbara Streisand is backing Hillary

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCommentary.asp?Page=/Commentary/archive/200205/COM20020507c.html

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Ron Jeffers — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:33:47 GMT

Obama seems to be the only Democrat smart enough to realize that government mandated healthcare would not work. Granted, I would like to see every American able to afford health insurance, but we need to REDUCE COSTS to make this happen. How? First, allow for an increase in the competition for drug manufacturing. Second, reduce the financial liability that physicians are currently under. Those two things alone would go a long way toward cutting costs.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

--NSMSNBC — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:41:55 GMT

Hillary made a false statement ... "'Among the Democrats, all of us except Sen. Obama have universal health care,' zinged Clinton."

This is taken directly from Joe Biden's website ... "Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden on Tuesday called for expanding access to health coverage for all children and adults, but stopped short of mandating universal coverage. Biden's plan would also improve coverage for catastrophic illnesses, modernize the health care system and encourage wellness."

And Joe is always right, don't forget. I think is what she meant was "'Among the (top three of which one of them I copied his plan and the other disagrees) Democrats ..."

So yes, Democrats do have a choice to make. Do they support Clinton's 'sounds-good-on-paper' plan or Obama's 'more-realistic' plan. If they choose to go with Clinton, I want no complaining when she leads healthcare down the crapper as she did in '93, because there is a reasonable chance of that.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Ed, Syracuse — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:42:46 GMT

I love people like Matt from Reading that comment about healthcare and you can tell he has no idea what he is talking about. Just a Repulican talking point pulled out of your ass.

It's the same people that say America is the best country on earth and have never traveled outside the country.

Matt, your longer waits comment is a joke have you been to an emergency room lately??? The wait is 4-5 hours before you see someone. Longer waits what a joke.

Poor overall service is another zinger, tell that to people who are being dropped on the corner by taxi from the hospital because they don't have insurance.

You have no idea what you are talking about and your parents dropped the ball on the whole abortion thing.

Save your republican talking points for the fox noise chat rooms.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:47:33 GMT

Lee: I just don't see a reconciliation between Shia and Sunni happening. There is an arrogance thing among the Sunni and they view the Shia as their inferiors. They will never accept a Shia government and no one will go for the Biden federalization program (except maybe the Kurds who have been on their own for 16 years anyway).

The surge is not the cause of the lull in violence. The turn of recent events is a result of Sunni pulling away from Al Qaeda (the Sunni thought that they were using Al Qaeda as a militant tool against the U.S. and Shia. As it turned out the price of religious fanatacism was too much to pay for this military arm).

As Ron Paul said last night, violence is down in the south because Al Sadr is in control. The Malaki government represents a failed state and only our presence keeps the beaurocracy functioning (if you can call it that).

This is no reflection on our troops, who have fought bravely and well, but it is a result of a mission that was poorly conceived and was lacking in a plan for follow through (although, that plan would seem to have eluded the best and brightest).

Are we to be there for eternity? It sure looks like it. Will the Sunni's rearm (via the Saudis and Syrians) and launch their own offensive? Will the various Shia factions engage in conflagation with Al Sadr emerging triumphant, representing the Ayatollah Al Sistani? Will he be an arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard?

How about the Kurds? Will they continue their mischief in Turkey and bring a country, whose population hates the U.S. more than does Pakistan's, into the conflict?

This is the quiet before the storm. It really pisses me off that the MSM is once again, asleep at the wheel and allowing the American public to believe the Bush and McCain surge has turned this miserable effort around. This, the most disasterous foreign policy decision in the history of our nation, will need some new thinking. I had to laugh last night, as only Ron Paul recognized the precipcice to which this administration has brought us. We need some new approaches, mainly intensive diplomacy with Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia, and not more militarism and saber rattling, in order to avert a catastrophe that will make Armageddon seem like a picnic.
Obama '08

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:59:05 GMT

How can Joe Biden & the other democratic candidates call the Iraq war a failure because the Iraqis haven't "come together politically"? How "together" is our country? We have been a democracy for many years now and seem further apart politically than ever.
Joe Warminster PA (Sent Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:23 AM)

The difference is obvious. Democrats are not taking to the street to shoot and/or blow up Republicans, and vice versa. That's not the case in Iraq.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:00:42 GMT

Er, Cindy? It was a GOP debate. They are Democratic candidates.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Lori — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:11:13 GMT

The Buddhists have a saying: as is the gardener, so is the garden. When I see how HRC/Obama/Edwards are running their campaigns, I get a glimpse about how their presidencies could be. That's why I'm voting for Biden.

Think about it when you're watching how all these folks behave.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

syssc — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:25:50 GMT

The reason Hillary's now talking up healthcare is that she's trying desperately to change the topic from her foreign policy experience, which is laughable.

Has anyone noticed that as soon as Obama and others began asking legitimate questions about her “experience”, she changed the subject?

Seems that, on the “experience” score, the lady’s been found out, or at least she’s beginning to be.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Ellis B. Kingman, Az. — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:31:08 GMT

What Biden is proposing for Iraq is a Confederacy, independent states with a central government without political powers or the ability to force a cohesion. I have said from the start of Bushs' nation building plan that a forced unity of the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds would never work given their history of hatred for each other. And as we know from experience neither will a Confederacy work without giving each state independent control of a fair share of the oil fields and access to the Persian gulf. Scrap the unity plan, divide them up into three independent states and bring our troops home

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Elizabeth Sullivan, San Diego, CA — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:32:24 GMT

Mitchell -

What is Obama's plan for Iraq? Specifically.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Kato in Des Moines — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:47:44 GMT

Yiannis: You totally mischaracterize the Biden Plan. It's not about partition or drawing borders. It's about power sharing. A federal system in Iraq (which by the way the Iraqi Constitution already permits) provides the three factions in Iraq a degree of autonomy to govern themsleves within a decentralized Iraqi state. That means Kurds policing Kurds; Sunnis policing Sunnis, and Shia policing Shia -- as opposed to the Shia and al Sadr policing everyone.

The United States is not partitioning the country or drawing up borders. The British did that after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and that is why we have the present-day dysfunctional state of Iraq. Iraq is not a nation state and never has been. It's the Yugoslavia of the Middle East. The best solution at this point in history is to find a political compromise that allows for all three factions to share power - hence the creation of a federal state and the Biden Plan. This is what was done in Bosnia. Sure, the Muslims, Serbs and Croats in Bosnia all objected at first. But when they finally reached a political solution -- the creation of a federal state -- stability came and they have lived in relative peace for more than a decade now.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Lura, Philadelphia, PA — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:01:41 GMT

Universal healthcare is necessary for both moral and economic reasons. Hospitals have a responsibility to give emergency care to the poor, but they end up also carrying the cost. If everyone is covered in a plan, the hospitals won't be losing that money, and people will be getting preventative treatment before they are so direly ill. Moreover, I am outraged that people die early, or live with serious ailments because they can not afford to go to a doctor. A universal health plan will make that care affordable.

I have cousins in Italy who are shocked that we all don't receive health care in this country. They are happy with their health system. Italy’s national health system provides low or no-cost healthcare to all its citizens. Can’t we do even better in the U.S.?

Our government needs to do the minimum to take care of its citizens. We can't sustain this lopsided system where some have much and some have nothing. I also think that all healthcare for everyone will become less expensive once everyone is covered.

I agree that Obama’s plan, leaving out 15 million people, is not good enough and will allow problems to continue. We will still have to pay, in some way, for the care of the poor; nor can I feel good about this country if it abandons the poor.

I only trust John Edwards to truly take on the entrenched system, and fight for a good plan for our citizens.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

--NSMSNBC — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:04:19 GMT

"Save your republican talking points for the fox noise chat rooms. "
Ed, Syracuse (Sent Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:42 PM)

First Ed, are you saying that MSNBC is the leftwing foil to Fox? Just what we need, another politically biased news organization, and I don't care which party they support. I personally like MSNBC, because I don't feel that is so strongly the case. It is small-minded to think that people should not post here, because they have an opposing viewpoint.

Let's take a look at a free-market approach (and I don't mean what we have now) for a minute, just open your mind and bear with me, hopefully that won't be too difficult.

Ed mention the long lines. If people had more responsibility to pay for their healthcare, service would be a big part of that. People would choose how they would want to spend money, and would go to the physicians who get them in. Another benefit that I see is the general practitioner vs. the specialist. Doctors are fleeing general medicine to become specialists, because after all the medical school tuition, they can make more money. I think that a free-market approach would favor the general practice doctor again, which would increase the number of family physicians, increasing patient choices and decreasing costs (and that's important). Because people now are saying, "Darn, I got a hangnail, I'd better see a specialist at 5x the cost to my insurance and everybody else." And you wonder why the waits for the emergency room are so long, with all of the non-emergencies. Democratic medicine would only make that worse.

As for quality, physicians would compete for good care and low costs--boy that sure sounds terrible. Physicians should also be held accountable and paid for quality. Under the free-market, general physicians would act as gatekeepers to specialists, making sure they get the care they need without the waste. But people are so focused on the term universal.

So, I don't know about rightwing talking points, but that just seems like common sense to me. Try it sometime.

Elizabeth: As I understand it, he supports withdrawing about 2 brigades per month to ensure the safety of our troops and a sudden rise in chaos, and would have the troops out within about a year. He would also focus on political reconciliation.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

kenn — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:06:57 GMT

I hate every Person but the one Im voting for.That is such nonsense,are you a democrat or a republican or independant.If your a true demo not just acting like one for BLOGING purposes you vote for the agreed apon canidate,or you are too personely involved and are unable to make a competent decision.The silly personel attacks are the media making politics, a boring subject, interesting TV.So name call assasinate your fellow demo or repucker and feel good knowing you have been fooled into it by the media looking for a story.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Phil — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:22:18 GMT

Uhh..Cindy, it was a REPUBLICAN debate. They usually don't invite Democrats. With all due respect, it always concerns me when folk who will be choosing the leadership of a city, state, or the nation are so strong on opinion and light on substance. Many of the posts here are filled with a healthy passion for the candidate of an individuals choice, and that is great, but there are almost as many clueless people posting bafoonery. This leads me to believe there should be a mandate on due diligence before many are even allowed to vote. Too many willing to be led like sheep to the slaughter. Vote the needs of the nation. Our nation needs reform both internally, and in its relationship to the rest of the world. Please America, get informed, and then vote your with your head. The only electable candidates that are not likely to put the final nail in our coffin are Huckabee, Obama, or Edwards. Vote principle over party, reconciliation over race, or for God's sake..stay away from the polls.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

LawSchoolDem, Houston, Texas — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:28:18 GMT

Hope is only a word if you do not have a candidate experienced enough to implement it. Support Clinton, Dodd, or Biden?anyone but Obama. Fired up? Ready to go? Please do. Go away and don?t ruin our chance at winning in the general. Look at Jena, LA and tell me that race relations are what you think they are and then tell me that Obama will bring us together? Support a real viable candidate and not an EMPTY phrase that your candidate cannot back up

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Jason, Berkeley, CA — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:37:21 GMT

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Justine, Ft. Pierce, FL — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:48:53 GMT

Mitchell please go to Obama's website and read his general plans for Iraq.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Marbw — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:59:21 GMT

Elizabeth Sullivan, Barack Obama's plan for Iraq is here: Click

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

kdavid, cherry hill NJ — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:11:08 GMT

I can't stand this continous "Hillary bashing" of Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro. You guys are spoiling the quality of this page with your biased comments. Please learn from Chuck Todd how to make a balenced political analysis. Thank god he's your chief.
Jason, Berkeley, CA (Sent Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:37 PM)

don't waist your breath advising these guys- the orders come from Chris Mathews himself the proclaimed Hillary Rodham Clinton basher and Barack Hussein Obama supporter in cheif" they just can't controll themselves. i think they should work for Fox news.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Julia NW Iowa — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:12:40 GMT

Just a thought - inarguably Biden has the most foreign policy experience out of ALL of the candidates running. He knows what needs to be done and more importantly how to get it done. While the "top tier" candidates claim to have so much foreign policy experience, I think it is safe to say it is less than adequate to deal with all of the foreign problems staring America straight in the face. So, just like Bush, they will have to surround themselves with advisors to tell them what to do. We know how effective this can be. Who will these people be? Will we agree with what these unknown/unnamed people ultimately decide is "right?" With Biden, we know it will be coming straight from him, he will be behind any planning and decision making every step of the way, 100%. We all know the saying, be careful what you wish for, but I think we need to be very, VERY careful in who we vote/caucus for. Let's get it right this time!

Biden 2008

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Marbw — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:13:11 GMT

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/11/12/obama_is_a_committed_christian.php

Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, And Is a Committed Christian
November 12, 2007
OBAMA IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN A MUSLIM
Open Letter from Religious Leaders Supporting ObamaBarack Obama Is Not and Has Never Been a Muslim. Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ.
Obama's Step-Father Saw Religion "As Not Particularly Useful," But Followed "A Brand of Islam" That Made Room for Animist and Hindu Faiths. Obama wrote in the Audacity of Hope, "When my mother remarried, it was to an Indonesian with an equally skeptical bent, a man who saw religion as not particularly useful in the practical business of making one's way in the world, and who had grown up in a country that easily blended its Islamic faith with remnants of Hinduism, Buddhism, and ancient animist traditions." Obama wrote in Dreams from My Father, "Like many Indonesians, Lolo followed a brand of Islam that could make room for the remnants of more ancient animist and Hindu faiths." [Audacity of Hope, p 204; Dreams From My Father, p 37]
Obama Found Faith During Community Organizing Days. "It was at Trinity United Church of Christ here, in the late 1980s, that Senator Obama says he found religion. Raised in a secular household, with ancestral roots running from Islam to Baptist to atheist, Obama had grown up a skeptic. But Mr. Wright's blend of scripture and social action resonated with Obama, then a young community organizer in black neighborhoods ravaged by steel-mill closings." [Christian Science Monitor, 7/16/07]
HE NEVER ATTENDED A RADICAL MUSLIM SCHOOL
CNN Reporter: I've Been to Madrassas in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and Obama's Indonesian Elementary School Is Nothing Like That. On January 22, CNN Reporter John Vause reported, "I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta, looking for what some are calling an Islamic Madrassa, like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan.. I've been to those Madrassas in Pakistan and Wolf, this school is nothing like that." [CNN, Situation Room, 1/22/07]
Indonesian Embassy Says That Besuki School Attended by Barack Obama "Has Never Been an Islamic Madrassah Type of School." A letter from the Indonesian Embassy stated that "Sekolah Dasar Negeri Besuki in Menteng, Jakarta, Indonesia has always been a public school. It has never been an Islamic madrassa type of school." [Letter From Ambassador Sudjadnan Parnohadiningrat to Senator Barack Obama, 1/25/07]
Time's Joe Klein: Attacks On Obama's Elementary School Are "Laughable" Given the Moderate Form of Islam Practiced in Indonesia, Especially in Those Days." Time's Joe Klein wrote, "The effort to slime Barack Obama has begun in the slimiest possible way." Describing attacks on Obama's elementary school, Klein wrote, "Now, this is nonsense of course. Obama's stepfather was not a Muslim extremist (among other things, he worked for Shell Oil). Obama attended public school for two years in Indonesia, in addition to the two years he spent in catholic schools--although, as Obama's staff points out, Indonesia is a Muslim country, so the public schools undoubtedly reflect the dominant relgious culture. The notion that the Obama's school was a Wahabi madrasa is laughable, given the moderate form of Islam practiced in Indonesia, especially in those days." [Time Blog, 1/22/07]
OBAMA IS A PRACTICING CHRISTIAN
Obama Has Been A Member Of Trinity United Church Of Christ For Twenty Years. Monroe Anderson stands up for Reverend Wright's ministry, "For the past two decades, Barack Obama has been a faithful member of the congregation at Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ." [Chicago Sun-Times, Monroe Anderson, 3/25/07]
Obama Was Baptized And Attends Church Once a Week When He is Able. In the Audacity of Hope, Obama wrote, "I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ one day and be baptized." In 2004, he "attend[ed] the 11 a.m. Sunday service at Trinity in the Brainerd neighborhood every week -- or at least as many weeks as he is able. His pastor, Wright, has become a close confidant." When asked about his decision to be baptized, Obama said "Kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side of Chicago, I felt I heard God's spirit beckoning me," he said of his walk down the aisle of the Trinity United Church of Christ. "I submitted myself to his will and dedicated myself to discovering his truth." [Audacity of Hope, p.208, Chicago Sun Times, 4/5/04; AP 6/28/06]
Obama Reads The Bible, Finds Time to Pray On Campaign Trail. The Chicago Sun-Times wrote, "Obama says he reads the Bible, though not as regularly as he'd like, now that he's on the campaign trail. But he does find time to pray. 'It's not formal, me getting on my knees,' he says. 'I think I have an ongoing conversation with God... I'm constantly asking myself questions about what I'm doing, why I am doing it.'" [Chicago Sun Times, 4/5/04]
Obama Held His Personal Bible When He Was Sworn-In As A U.S. Senator. "...Even before the makeshift office was up and running in the basement of a Senate building, even before he raised his hand Tuesday to take the oath of office as the junior senator from Illinois, Barack Obama was already a political rock star and a celebrated new face in Congress. He arrived Tuesday, his first official day in the Capitol.... In the circles he runs in now, celebrity status is checked at the cloakroom door...When it was finally time to take the oath, he held his personal Bible, as family from as far away as Kenya watched from the visitors' gallery above. His daughters, Malia, 6, and Sasha, 3, in velvet dresses and patent leather shoes, bounced in their chairs when he looked up and waved." [Los Angeles Times, 1/5/05]

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

raf — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:13:17 GMT

I've done my due diligence; I am informed; and I'm voting for Senator Joe Biden.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Lee Holmes — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:16:54 GMT

Kato: True,yet Biden demands an addendum. A partitioning of a nation that neither the Iraqis nor the ISG want or desire. Biden thus places ''peacekeepers''in a Belfast-like no-mans land with targets painted on their backs,unable to keep warring factions at bay.[as we are now seeing in both Sudan and Bosnia,both protectorates of the UN and NATO]. If the calm in Iraq we are now seeing is a result of tribal and religious leaders of both sides meeting in a form of reconciliation which is producing fewer deaths,more services,and a return of refugees,then it is to these,not Biden and his crippled UN,to carve out Iraqs destiny.

Scott:You are in error. I specifically referred to the actual ISG report which rebuts Bidens federalization plan. This is neither ''untrue''nor is it ''distorted''. You have the website provided by this poster. Use it.[and cite the specific[as I can],findings by Chairmen Baker and Hamilton on this very subject.
Shia-Sunni internecine deaths are now at their lowest level in four years.[as are American deaths]. al Qaeda is being neutralized all across the nation,while the Mehdi Army[Shia],is pulling back from South Baghdad,allowing returned refugees by the tens of thousands to return to the Baghdad environs[46,000 in less than two weeks according the the United Nations High Commissioner on Refugees[Nov.22,2007].11 more offices have been set up in Damascus to handle the flow of returning refugees to Baghdad.
Handing over local control to local forces is not a ''partition''. What we see in Sudan[which is fighting partition,yet Biden wishes to force this with American arms],the Balkans[where there is a shooting war in Kosovo],and what the British attempted in Northern Ireland are all concrete indicators of the failures of partition that is not agreed upon by all parties[and again,nearly all Iraqis of both major religious sects are against partition].

Mitchell: I disagree. The Surge was the very thing most needed in order to provide not only breathing space,but a series of very successful low-level political moves between American commanders and the tribal leaders which have borne fruit. Most especially,with the eradication of the words ''Sunni Triangle''in areas that are more peaceful in their present construct than a West Bank,a Beirut,a Chechnya,or even a Caracas.[yet were once free-fire zones and no-mans lands].
I fail to see how muscular diplomacy can succeed upon the event of an American retreat from Iraq. As you yourself admitted,the larger Middle Eastern Muslim mind is made of a black and white, inferior/superior construct. Thus would the Assads,Faisals,Ahmedinjezads,and Abbas' view us through an inferior prism as a nation lacking spine.[to see how effective nascent Democrat forays into such diplomacies actually were,we need look no farther than Pelosis visit to Syria,at the exact moment that the nation that owned her ''road to peace''was constructing a nuclear weapons facility in secret,and was openly running arms across the Lebanese border]. Then too,in leaving,should all of what you propose come to pass,there is no chance whatever that the conflict would remain organically Iraqi. It would spread to other areas,affecting an international oil supply which even Democrats would not long abide before sending in ships,aircraft,and cruise missles. We would leave,only to return.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Dan, TX — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:18:05 GMT

Elizabeth Sullivan asked "What is Obama's plan for Iraq? Specifically. "

See the outline below. The plan is far too detailed to post here. Go to
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/
and click on "Read Barack's Plant to end the war"
to download the PDF file with the plans.

All Combat Troops Redeployed by 2009:
Residual Force to Remain:
Withdrawal is the Best Way to Pressure Iraqi Government:
Afghanistan: Barack Obama believes that we need to begin to end the war in order to finish the fight in
Afghanistan. He would redeploy at least two combat brigades (7,000 personnel) of rested, trained American
troops to Afghanistan to reinforce our counter-terrorism operations and support NATO’s efforts to fight the
Taliban.
A United Nations-Led Constitutional Convention:
Refuse to Provide U.S. Assistance to Sectarian Actors:
Support for Iraqi Stability:
Prevent the War's Spread Beyond Iraq:
A New Cooperative Security Framework in the Gulf:
Iraq is Facing a Humanitarian Crisis Right Now:
Take Care of Refugees:
Secure International Assistance:
Prevent Genocide:

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:18:38 GMT

I think it's funny that the only "scandals" Hillary could try to exploit against Obama were involving Obama giving money to other people.
(including that Obama's Hopefund gave $ to Hillary's senate reelection campaign, and her supporters campaigns)

And when they didn't stick, she resurfaced the "muslim ties" rumors.

Hillary is desperate. And boy is she MEAN when she gets desperate!

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Phil — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:19:54 GMT

Lawschool.... Your answer to change, and poor race relations is to stick with the status quo? If thats the best you can come up with ,then I hope you will not be asked to vigorously defend someone because you "don't think" they(you)can win. Unless you become a better advocate, I see a lot of pro bono in your future.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

rebecca, orlando FL — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:27:15 GMT

It's amazing to me that with 24 hour news channels and the internet at everyone's fingers, someone this late in the game would still ask about a candidates plans FROM A 3RD PARTY!! With all of this access of information, there is no reason for voters not to be informed. STOP BEING LAZY AND EDUCATE YOURSELF! Nothing worse than an uninformed voter. If you have the time to read & reply to these blogs, you have the time to research the info you are desiring. GEEZ!

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Mae, Anderson, South Carolina — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:27:56 GMT

Barack has a good chance of winning Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina!

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Dan, TX — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:31:07 GMT

By the way, Barack's health care plan would not leave out 15 million people.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

Washington Post agrees that Hillary is exaggerating a bit. Neither plan is perfect. And neither plan will get through without modifications. The question comes down to who can get the best consensus and bipartisan support.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/clinton_vs_obama_on_health_car.html

http://thepage.time.com/from-obama-spokesman-bill-burton/

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Dan, TX — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:35:37 GMT

raf, I fully understand why you support Biden. He is a much better choice than Clinton.

I am going to support Obama, and hope that Biden is willing to provide his advice to Obama if he should win the nomination. There is only one democrat who could lose to any republican candidate. It's Clinton.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Lee in CA — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:35:50 GMT

It's really sad that such a qualified candidate as Biden has such a lousy chance at winning vs. a bunch of parasites, liars, moral reprobates, war mongerers, adulterers, Jesus freaks and outright criminals.

Could something be wrong with our system?

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

blacklab — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:40:16 GMT

Do you see the parallel between the Colorado Rockies and Barack. Strong run then flop.. Wake up Obamers' this is the big league(PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES) and he doesnt stand a chance. Get behind a viable candidate and push. We need a winner.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Brad - Iowa — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:42:09 GMT

I just can't help but think if anyone would really listen to Biden and stay open-minded, that they could not see he is the most qualified, honest and straight-shooting candidate. I was undecided on who to support until I listened to him, but now without question I know he is the only choice.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Don, Sammamish, WA — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:45:13 GMT

As knowledgeable as Biden is about Iraq -- and he is very knowledgeable -- he does not attack the real issue of Iraq with full force, and that is the fundamental immorality of our occupation of Iraq in the first place. Only a completely restructured mission that permits Iraqis to build their democracy without interference would give the U.S. any justification for being there at all. It's long past time we stopped thinking about our own interests, and opened our eyes to the real problems we've created.

The Democrats have a few candidates who might actually help to make things better, but there are other power structures that are still going to make things difficult. I'm having trouble supporting anyone since we all decided Michael Mukasey would make a great Attorney General, but Obama's fresher ideas, and ability to draw on the wisdom of folks like Biden, make him my preferred choice. A serious study of the Clinton Presidency, reviewed as a precursor to the actions of the current administration, makes Hillary a completely unacceptable choice, other than as a last-ditch effort to stop Rudy or Mitt.

We've got such a mess that the best we can hope for is likely to be deeply imperfect. What else can we do?

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:57:29 GMT

j. hillary can be mean if she whats. kase and point when bill left oface he hasnt been kot in a sex scandel. could this mean a posible eunichy snip snip

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

obama '08 — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:12:30 GMT

To all the biden supporters on here, I am whole heartedly for Obama, but I would gladly choose Biden as a second choice. I agree with you on his foreign policy experience and agree that he seems honest and trustworthy. I hope you too will take a send look at Obama and keep him in mind as a second choice! The only awful candidate we have as Democrats is Hillary. If we all support each others candidates as people start dropping out, someone other than Hillary is sure to be the nominee. We can only hope!

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Sage Russell — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:27:23 GMT

///It's really sad that such a qualified candidate as Biden has such a lousy chance at winning vs. a bunch of parasites, liars, moral reprobates, war mongerers, adulterers, Jesus freaks and outright criminals.

Could something be wrong with our system?

Lee in CA

/////

What system do you like better?

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Dot, Illinois — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:31:17 GMT

Don, Sammamish, WA

You make some interesting points. I would like to know your thoughts about how the Iraqis are going to build their democracy without help. Without our surge forces maintaining order in their cities, I'm not sure that they(the Iraqis) can hold down the bloodshed long enough to begin the process of discussions between the various sects aimed at formaulating a new democratic government. Senator Biden's point is that now, while the fighting has subsided and before the surge troops leave, is the ideal time to try to enlist the assistance of the UN and other countries to help the Iraqi government gain strength. If the sectarian violence escalates again, it may be too late.

Also, I'm curious as to why you think Senator Obama could better deal with the issue of Iraq then Senator Biden.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Phil — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:38:36 GMT

Biden is very solid, and in many ways I agree the most experienced of the lot...but Biden will not win the nomination. He has already been marginalized in the(american political bible) media, and does not have the war chest to stay in much longer. It is my hope that the 2 democrats (Edwards/Obama)who have the perverbial snowball's chance in the general will utilize his experience.

Obama's diversity, and judgement are characteristics emblematic of what we need for middle eastern nations to become real partners for peace, and the war on terrorism. His passion for change, and willingness to work across the isle for compromise is essential to prograss, and Biden is the tough, experienced voice of wisdom. Ahh.. The carrot and the stick.

HRC winning in the general would hinge greatly on the notion of re electing WJC. A notion that energizes Republicans. To paraphrase the late Lloyd Benson said...I knew Bill Clinton, I worked with Bill Clinton, and Hillary is no Bill Clinton.

Those who want Biden better open up their wallets fast.

Dare I say it?
Obama/Biden '08

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Phil — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:54:07 GMT

Dot, Illinois

If I can chime in on this, I believe that the tandem of Obama/Biden would be an awesome foreign policy combo. I don't want to perpetuate any perceived racist statement here, but Arab nations will likely never trust Caucasians as a whole. This for reasons including Nixon's summer of 69, Nato circa 1945-1948, and Reagan 1984. That makes Obama a more trustworthy partner (The carrot)in the region. Biden makes a great stick.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Dan, TX — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:00:33 GMT

I think Biden's plan is reasonable and I think Obama's plans don't contradict Biden's. Biden's plan is more specific on how to structure Iraq. Obama is being more cautious and trying to encourage the Iraqi government to decide what to do. It seems very possible they would choose something like Biden's plan. But I think Obama believes that it would work better if the Iraqi government can say it is their idea, rather than having America tell them what they are going to do. I think Biden would agree with this. It is a suggestion for the Iraqi government to consider and it is a very good suggestion.

So, Biden's plan is outstanding, but I think Obama's approach to the problem is a bit different. What is Biden's philosophy on how to get the Iraqi government to embrace his plan?

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

CitizenJ — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:02:58 GMT

I would like to know your thoughts about how the Iraqis are going to build their democracy without help. Without our surge forces maintaining order in their cities, I'm not sure that they(the Iraqis) can hold down the bloodshed long enough to begin the process of discussions between the various sects aimed at formaulating a new democratic government.

Dot, Illinois (Sent Thursday, November 29, 2007 4:31 PM)

Dot,

There is a generally accepted rule called the 40 year rule. Generally, it takes about 40 years for a democracy to fully establish itself. The current generation of Iraqis see us as occupiers. As the situation improves there, their children will gradually lose that impression. By the time they have children, the feeling will be almost gone - theoretically. Who knows if that theory will hold up in that situation. With Iran right next door, who knows if it can work at all?

Here's something that is a tell-tale sign of a democracy going sour: when legislators/citizens argue about issues WITHIN the institutions of the nation, that is a healthy sign. When they are arguing about the institutions themselves, that is an unhealthy sign. And for all the progress we have made with security in Iraq, they are still arguing about the institutions. And until that changes, there are only 2 possibilities: 1) Iraq will have a "democracy", and our troops will never leave, or 2) Our troops will eventually leave, and that "democracy" will crumble faster than you can say "George Bush sucks".

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Scott, PA — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:08:51 GMT

Dan,
Do you think Biden would need Obama's advice? And your entire plan listed for Obama (and I like Obama as a second choice) is completely a military detailed plan...all the candidates have this. What is his POLITICAL PLAN?
Lee,
The Iraqi constitution calls for the regionalization the Biden supports. This is what the Iraqis want, not forced by the US or the UN. I never claimed that the ISG was for it, though, many of there requests are important to Iraq's success.
No US soldier has been killed in Bosnia, it is widely held as a success. Plus Biden is not supporting a partition anywhere? I'm really thinking there must be a miscommunication now.
Please consider Biden '08

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Dan, TX — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:12:54 GMT

Dot, Illinois

Specifically, I don't know for sure that Obama could better deal with the issue of Iraq than Senator Biden.

But I think Obama's plan is not in conflict with Biden's so that I think that Obama could deal with Iraq just as well as Sen. Biden (presumably with Sen. Biden's help). I trust Obama's judgment that the Iraqi's have to make the decision on what their form of governance will be if the goal is to avoid civil war (if possible) down the road. Certainly, Biden would agree that his plan would need to be embraced by the Iraqi government and not forced upon them. Right? So, if the Iraqi government objects to Biden's approach, then what will Sen. Biden do? What will his plan be?

Obama's plan is more flexible. I know this also makes it seem more vague and thus more like just politics. But I think you'll agree that if the Iraqi's do not embrace Biden's plan, then his approach is a failure. That is why being a bit less specific in this particular case is perhaps a superior political position.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Dan, Tx — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:32:19 GMT

Hi Scott, the whole plan described in the pdf includes the political approaches, and you could get much more information from articles and speeches as well from the Obama site (just ask in the blog and folks there will fetch stuff for you). Obama does not just have a military plan.

To your question. Absolutely, Biden would NOT need Obama's advice. Obama wouldn't need Biden's advice either, but why wouldn't he want to take Biden's expertise into account? Remember Obama already has quite a long list of advisors on national security and foreign affairs. In some respects Bush is right, the president is the "decider" so evaluation and judgment are key and I trust Biden, I trust Obama. And for some reason, I just don't trust Clinton.

Certainly, as you say if the Iraqi constitution calls for a plan similar to what Biden supports, that certainly suggests what the outcome should look like.

I don't think Obama is better than Biden on Iraq or the middle east. But, that's not the only issue the next president has to deal with. I completely understand why Biden supporters love Biden and can't imagine why anyone would vote for anyone else, ditto for Edwards, Richardson, even Clinton.

I'm puzzled why Biden is doing so poorly in the polls. Can you explain that to me?

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Dan, TX — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:52:07 GMT

Scott, I also suppose you might ask why Obama is doing so well. For all the reasons you like him as a second choice I suppose. The boy's got charisma.

I'm 46, so Obama is the same age as me. I don't know if that matters but for some reason I believe this is the most important election of my life. I have taken the time to learn about Obama and I can relate to him and his world view. The first home computers became available in my youth, I could move from punch cards/mainframes to cassette tapes to store programs.

I'm a molecular geneticist/bioinformaticist. I earned my PhD in 1988. I have seen a revolution in science and technology first hand, the scope of which is hard to comprehend.

The world has changed. Obama, in my opinion, is the candidate who understands this changed world in a way that the others do not. I know that sounds mystical and I'm sorry if you find that offensive. But informatics is about taking large amounts of data and putting it into a form that can be visualized. I believe, based on what he has written and said, that Obama can visualize the data better. And he can make better decisions because of it.

Or maybe it is just better for me to say that I like his common sense approach, his fairness, and his humanity, and just leave it at that.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Dot, Illinois — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:59:12 GMT

Thanks to all of you for your well thought out responses. Good posts all---worth reading.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Julia NW Iowa — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:05:26 GMT

Phil,
In one of your previous entries you mentioned your hopes for Obama/Edwards with the advice of Biden. I've only been able to see three of the candidates speak here in Iowa and it happens to be those three. Edwards had good ideas. Obama had good ideas. Biden had good ideas and GREAT answers! I'm all for change and good ideas, I want that, but what I want right now is action. I want someone who can actually step in, hit the ground running and get things done.

I really do have hopes for Obama, I just don't have confidence in him yet. I do in Joe.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Kato in Des Moines — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:25:35 GMT

Lee Holmes writes: "Biden demands an addendum. A partitioning of a nation that neither the Iraqis nor the ISG want or desire. Biden thus places peacekeepers in a Belfast-like no man's land with targets painted on their backs, unable to keep warring factions at bay."

Lee, I think you're a little confused. First, it's George Bush who has our military over there right now playing the role of peacekeepers with targets on their backs. Biden is bringing our troops home. The military surge was suppose to buy time for a political reconciliation. That hasn't taken place because Bush, Cheney and Condi Rice don't have a political solution of their own to jump start the process in Iraq.

Second point: Biden is not partitioning the country. Why do you insist on purposefully mischaracterizing the plan? You post here regularly. You know it's not a partition plan. You've read the First Read posts where Biden has specifically made a point to correct those who mislabel his initiative as "partitioning" or "dividing" up the country, or making three countries. You've read my posts correcting people who call it partition. Why do you insist on mischaracterizing his plan? The plan calls for a federal system which allows the Kurds, Sunnis and Shia to share political power. Each faction will have a degree of autonomy or self-governance within a decentralized Iraqi state. There is no partition. Basically it would be akin to taking power away from our own federal government and giving the bulk of that power to the individual states to govern themselves.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Tony Chellini, Cincinnati, Ohio — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:43:00 GMT

Hillary has no chance of winning a general election. The polls right now reflect the ignorance in the democratic party that nominated John Kerry over John Edwards on his alleged electability advantage. Will the democrats ever wake up?

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Stacy S. Medford OR — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:46:52 GMT

Joe Biden is the only candiadte with a realistic plan for Iraq. My vote is for Joe Biden.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Nando, Palm Coast,FL — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:55:35 GMT

Elizabeth,
His plan is to never let it happen again, And to have the Backbone to stand up to people who only want to make enemies instead of Allies.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Nando, Palm Coast,FL — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:59:41 GMT

Elizabeth,
His plan is to never let it happen again, And to have the Backbone to stand up to people who only want to make enemies instead of Allies.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Lee Holmes — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:52:51 GMT

Scott: It does not ''call ''for it,it allows it through referendum involving the Iraqi people solely which Biden denies,as his three-section federalization plan would be imposed by outside forces[namely,as you proferred,the US Senate], backed by the UN.''Like Heck we can't tell the Iraqis what to do''[remarks,Sen.Joe Biden,Oct 24,2006. Floor of Senate]. Like heck he can. He ignores the fact that the Iraqi constitution can call for 10 or 12,or 15 separations federally,not simply a neatly cut Iraq into three distinct sections,never mind being backed by any paltry force the UN decides to send. Further, oil-revenue sharing is not in compliance with the present Iraqi constitution as of Oct.2007.[and will not even be discussed in the Iraqi government until April 2008]. Biden thus places an American imprimatur upon these proceedings which actually smack of the exact same ''neo-imperialism/colonialism''that Bush detractors accuse him of engaging in himself. Iraq solely,must make these momentous decisions. Not a Delaware senator. Though to his credit,he brought something to the table that Obama and Hillary have thus far not done.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Scott, PA — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:06:32 GMT

Here here Dan, well put. I can completely understand why people have faith in Obama. He provides a spark and his candidacy has huge celebrity appeal (garnered, for the most part, by his speeches and the media). He has shown humanity, a fairness and a common sense approach to issues of the day. In my mind, the man has not yet done any wrong.
But that does not make him a leader -yet
That does not give him a track record of bringing the Senate (country) together - yet
That does not give him the experitse and judgement whereby foreign leaders rely upon (along with the WH and other candidates).-yet
That does give him solutions where there aren't any to be found- yet.
If Biden weren't in this race, I would vote for Obama.
Biden has proven actions.
You catch my drift.
Biden desperately feels the need to change direction for America in this world and is experienced enough to do it.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:16:06 GMT

Dan, TX - I'll take a crack at that one. Biden is doing poorly now because he did poorly in the summer and early fall at the two activities that matter more than others at that stage of a campaign - fundraising and organization.

The media will pick up on the candidates who seem capable of running a credible, national campaign. That means the candidates who are at least moderately successful in raising cash, and then hiring staff to organize volunteers.

Biden didn't do that, and now doesn't have the money nor field offices to make a serious run through the primaries, even if he surpasses expectations in the first ones. So the media focuses its attention on those who do, which are Clinton, Obama and to a lesser degree (I happen to think significantly lesser, once Iowa passes) Edwards.

In previous campaign seasons, a darkhorse might have had time to translate an early win into a second wind of momentum - fundraising and organization going into follow-on primaries. This year, with the condensed schedule, Biden potentially could win Iowa and New Hampshire, and simply not have time to prepare for Tsunami Tuesday.

I like him. He's a better candidate than I expected. But a campaign is more than just the candidate. In my state, we have to petition to get candidates on the ballot for the primaries. Obama recently became the first Democrat to qualify. I've seen people collecting signatures for Clinton, Dodd and Richardson. Obama has a network of supporters I know of (get e-mail invites to stuff all the time), and I've seen bumperstickers. Clinton people are already getting yard signs out (only seen a few, but those are the first). The others candidates? I haven't even seen a petitioner yet. And they need 10,000 signatures someone evenly distributed between all the congressional districts. Its not too hard, but it doesn't happen overnight, either.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

LaTreetha Sharpley Spring Hill Florida — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:38:44 GMT

I recently watched a interview with John Edwards, and was very impressed with his answers to questions. I think if America would have the choice of an Edwards and Obama team we would truly be ahead.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 03:35:25 GMT

First, I must say, I like Joe Biden's charm, in spite of his foot in mouth problem and in spite of his arrogance and loquaciousness. But yet, I do have some problems with him. If one counts his years in service, his resume' is impressive but still, he voted for the authorization of force in Iraq and against the Levin/Reed amendment - Oct 10, 2002. Therefore, one has to conclude that all of that experience had not distilled into the judgment that I think that Obama exhibited when he made his Hyde Park speech in October of 2002 - against the use of force in Iraq.

Be that as it may, Biden (although never admitting his initial votes in 2002 to be mistakes) did learn not to trust this administration (although, like many, believes the Iranian Revolutionary Guard to foster terrorism), and unlike the junior Senator from New York, would not vote for the Lieberman/Kyl amendment in September of 2007. He, unlike the junior Senator from New York, realized that this 'use of force provision' in paragraph 4, could (and likely would) be misused by this administration as a de facto Congressional approval for war in Iran.

But, Biden has other faults (he is from Delaware - a corporate haven). He supported the inane bankruptcy laws that favor the credit card companies. So although, he is not without merit, and is not without charm or admittedly great intelligence, I have to say that he is not my first (or even second) choice for the nomination. On the positive, he astutely pointed out the potential danger of Pakistan at the last Democratic debate and his point about the inappropriate emphasis on Iran's processing of 1/100 of the purified uranium that is already possessed by an unstable Pakistan, was right on. So I can say sometimes 'Joe is right.'

Secondly, to Justine, Fla.: I know of Obama's position on slowly bringing the troops home from Iraq (1-1and 1/2 brigades per month) and I'm sure by now, that Elizabeth from San Diego, has read his proposal on the web site. To me (and Obama speaks of engaging the Iranians, Syrians and Saudis), without the influence from power structures that surround Iraq, there can be no truce between Shia and Sunni (if it can ever happen at all). What I like about Obama, is that he (as well as some of the others on the Democratic side) recognizes that continued militarism is not the answer and that remaining troops should only be used, to protect our combat troops as we withdraw, and to protect the embassy. Continued militarism with the presence of combat troops, only stimulates Al Qaeda recruitment and leads to the continued fomenting of violence (by these thugs) around the world. There is no such thing as pre-emption; as I and others have said, pre-emptive war is an oxymoron.

Whether or not a convocation of Shia and Sunni can lead to some rapproachment (as Obama proposes) remains to be seen. It will be a hard sell. Still I guess it's the only shot we have. As Obama has said, 'there are no good options' and he predicted these problems in his Hyde Park Speech in 2002. Basically, I have to say that on one hand the act of minimizing our presence in Iraq may make leaving Viet Nam seem as if it were child's play but on the other hand, it may remove an incendiary feature that keeps the two sides apart.

And although Joe Biden's federalism proposal sounds attractive it is, in reality, a partition plan (a rose by any other name...) and I think that there is a certain degree of nationalism (ironically) that would prevent the Iraqi's from accepting a plan such as this, imposed by the U.S.

Lastly, to Lee: I just can't believe that a surge of 15% could have possibly resulted in the reduction of violence that we have seen in the last few months in Al Anbar. An increase of 20K troops might help to patrol Bagdad (NYC has over 40K police) but it would lead to a 'wack a mole' phenomenon, with violence sprouting in other regions of the country. Certainly, I would agree that more troops had to have helped but most of the change in Al Anbar, involves co-operation of the Sunni tribal governances with American forces in order to rid themselves of the Al Qaeda, the latter of whom proved to be more than the Sunni had bargained for.

In essense, I see this as a lull in the storm (the eye of the storm?) as the Sunni insurgency regroups. I doubt that the Sunni are greatful to us for helping the Shia to usurp their financially and socially superior position in Iraqi society. We can never offer them the dominance they wish to regain in that country. I only hope that outside influences (in the region) will prevail and that some sort of compromise government will emerge.

If we keep on our present course, I think that another Sunni dictator will be the solution (with our support) in order to restore a functioning beaurocracy and to act as a buffer against an increasingly militant (Shia) Iran.

All in all prospects in Iraq (for the time being) seem dim.
Obama '08

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

sharon, little falls mn — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 04:37:35 GMT

Matthew, Reading, PA said "Universal helathcare is a joke. Until you address the REASON healthcare is so expensive, it doesn't matter if the taxpayers are footing the bill or if indivduals are, it will still be expensive. The only difference is with universal healthcare, you will have long waits for even the most basic things and poor overall service."

Matthew, if universal healthcare is such a joke, why is it that not one single Canadian would willingly choose American style care over their own system? And no, there aren't long waits for basic care. You're buying into Republican lies because it absolutely isn't true. And if the service is so poor overall, why are Canadians living longer lives than Americans? Why are infant mortality rates lower in Canada than the U.S.? Trust me, I know from personal experience that the Canadian system provides prompt firstclass health care.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Ken, San Diego, CA — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 05:24:39 GMT

Hillary Clinton was no typical First Lady; not for Arkansas and not for the U.S. In Arkansas she led the effort to provide health care for children (and won). Folks from Arkansas overwhelmingly approve of her and what she did for Arkansas. She polls higher than Bill Clinton and ALL of the Republican candidates, INCLUDING ex-governor Huckabee.

In addition, Hillary did more than pick China decor for the White House (I doubt she even did that). You tell me what other First Lady has led an administrative initiative, has traveled to over 80 nations as a liason, diplomat, and representative, has led a conference in communist Beijing for women's rights, who has met with countless leaders all over the world (for a variety of purposes), and who has had a hand in policy decisions (the "infamous" White House secrets that only the Archives can release)? To suggest that someone of her position, living in the White House for 8-years with such an active role gained no executive experience is naive (at best). Whether you like to admit it or not, we all know that the "2 for 1″ slogan was more reality than rhetoric.

As a legislator, Hillary Clinton is known by her peers (on both sides of the aisle) as a "work-horse", as someone who has reached across the aisle to get work done (she has worked with Lindsey Grahm, Sam Brownback, and John McCain to name a few) on countless pieces of legislation. The only ones who keep professing her polarization are people like you. Not a single senator (none of consequence, anyway) on either side of the aisle has said anything derogatory about her; only that she has work ethic, is tough, is pragmatic, is always the "smartest one in the room".

Obama and the others are good, smart people, but none of them have shown the experience, durability, tenacity, and smarts of Hillary Clinton. Joe Biden might have the most legislative experience (and quality experience at that), but if you're looking for the whole package, then Hillary is the candidate of choice.

People say that without Bill there would be no Hillary candidacy. That may be right. But I'll tell you this, without Hillary there would have been no Bill Clinton White House. And we all know it.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Gregory Thomas Scheel, Mostly Homelss in California — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:25:08 GMT

Dear Ron Jeffers,

The only way to reduce drug costs is to decouple research from manufacturing. Let the research companies be paid for their research, ban the patent of any medicine, whether chemical or botanical, and allow free and open competition among manufacturers.

If we restrict liability, we will only get doctors who are even more incompetent and careless than the ones we have now. Many of my family members work in health care, and they and I are appalled by the staggering incompetence of many, easily more than half, of all medical personnel. If doctors did their jobs well, they would never face litigation.

Please bear in mind that the medical schools are now run by HMO's and pharmaceutical companies, and that doctors are trained to dodge lawsuits and cut costs, not to cure the ill. Big Med must be crushed, and their profits too, before they rob us all, not only of our money but our lives.

"Cut down the tall heads of corn."

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Gregory Thomas Scheel, Mostly Homelss in California — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:59:36 GMT

Dear Ed from Syracuse,

Your response to Matt from Reading is rude and uncalled for, I can't imagine why the moderators let you post.

'You have no idea what you are talking about and your parents dropped the ball on the whole abortion thing.'

Such talk is outside the bounds of appropriate language.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Martha CR Iowa — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 08:29:22 GMT

Universal Health Care, talk to the women in England and Canada that have to wait 4 to 6 months for surgery to remove Ovarian cancer, then be told it is far advanced. My daughter had her surgery in 5 days at Mayo after it was found she had ovarian cancer. I am a retired RN and I know that we have the best health care system in the world, it would deteriorate with the UHP. What needs to be done is cap the fees of the Phamaceutical and Doctors. Stop paying for medical care for illegals. Make group insurance plans available to low income families. this seems to be a Dem posting area and I am sorry but I am voting for the best person for our country, John McCain. He is not buying the Oval office he has earned it.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Phil — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:24:22 GMT

Julia, NW Iowa

Thank you for your input, and I appreciate your response particularly since you have seen all of them speak in Iowa. Confidence is a very important component, and I am quite confident in Joe Biden's answers...I am equally confident in Barack Obama's. I agree that he has some very solid ones. The only problem for me is that I am more interested in flexibility to build concensus. Not that Joe absolutely is not , but I believe that Barack abosolutely is. So for me it is also about confidence. I wish Joe all the luck in the world, but I do not yet believe he has the chance to win the nomination. I will say again.....Obama/Biden 08

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Dot, Illinois — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:13:04 GMT

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA

Excellent post. I had not thought about some of the points you raised before.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:01:02 GMT

I just want to say one thing - WOW! I stopped following this thread yesterday because it looked to be the same old name-calling nonsense that has too often dominated First Read. But after having skimmed through the afternoon's posts (and read some quite carefully) I am really impressed at how thoughtful and substantive people's discussions were.

I'm encouraged that there is so much discussion about Biden. I look back a couple of months ago, and it was rare that there was even a comment about him. In the last few weeks, I see him all over - if not in the items themselves, at least in the comments. My big fear is that it is too little too late with the early dates in IA and NH. Hopefully that is not the case, and he can finish strong in Iowa.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Ignatius Anyanwu, Folsom, California — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:42:45 GMT

Mark Murray:

As I have written you before: you are a classic example of the ineptitude and lack of professionalism in the profession of journalism in the United States.

A real journalist is not a coward, and does not insinuate. A real journalist verifies his/her information, and calls it like he/she sees it. The excerpt and quote from your article above, fail those basic tests. You wrote: "...does the Obama-Muslim story and ponders: "While considerable attention during the campaign has focused on the anti-Mormon feelings aroused by former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney (R), polls have also shown rising hostility toward Muslims in politics. It is not clear whether that negative sentiment will affect someone who has lived in a Muslim country but does not practice Islam."

What is your point, and what are you trying to insinuate with this pseudo analysis?

Moreover, a real journalist verifies his/her information before reporting on it. However, your article cites a piece in the Chicago Suntimes (an article by a Clinton kiss-ass, Lynn Sweet -not among the brightest journalists around). Most professional journalists would not find this reference, printable, until they have verified the facts. From all indications, you have not verified the accuracy of that allegation. Why print it? Are you a real journalist and what is your educational and professional background?

Shame on you, the MSNBC that hired you and other media outlets, for reducing the standards of intellectual discourse in the United States to such a low ebb! At this rate, 50 years from now, I wonder how many Americans would be capable of engaging in substantive exchange of ideas, not just, through journalism, but in the broader and everyday course of life.

Thanks to you morons, for increasingly reducing the substance of this great nation!!

Ignatius Anyanwu
California.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Mark Murray — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:59:40 GMT

Ignatius, thank you for the feedback. I didn't write that; the Washington Post did. These oh-eight sections in the morning chronicle all the news articles on the presidential race that day. This Washington Post piece was one of them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/28/AR2007112802757.html?hpid=topnews

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Lee Holmes — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:09:43 GMT

Kato: There most certainly is,and it is here,where Iraqis have voiced their most fervent opposition. The north[Kurd],the central-southwest[Sunni],and southeast[Shia],all under the control of a coalition government designed to remain weak. Biden himself refers to ''The Yugoslav model''as a basis for what is in real essence,a partition,exactly as we saw in Bosnia-Herzogovinia-Kosovo,which are and remain in a partitioned state. One may call the horse a differant colour,but it is still a horse. Iraqis are thus not fooled. Not the Sunnis,not the Maliki Shias either,nor the Mooks minions,especially in placing the whole deal into a UN mandate bucket. If,and this is admittedly a big if,the violence continues to fall,stronger voices for a united Iraq will continue to be increasingly heard.

Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Sara, Cedar Rapids, Iowa — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:00:00 GMT

"Julia, NW Iowa
Thank you for your input, and I appreciate your response particularly since you have seen all of them speak in Iowa. Confidence is a very important component, and I am quite confident in Joe Biden's answers...I am equally confident in Barack Obama's. I agree that he has some very solid ones. The only problem for me is that I am more interested in flexibility to build concensus. Not that Joe absolutely is not , but I believe that Barack abosolutely is. So for me it is also about confidence. I wish Joe all the luck in the world, but I do not yet believe he has the chance to win the nomination. I will say again.....Obama/Biden 08
Phil"

Phil, One of Joe Biden's best attributes is his ability to build consensus. Look at his legislative record. He has been able to work closely with the like of Sen. Hatch to get the VAWA passed. He was able to get 26 GOP Senators to vote in favor of his Iraq resolution. No Democratic Senator (or candidate) comes close to Biden in the ability to build consensus or reach across party lines. Yesterday before the Council on Foreign Relations Chuck Hagel spoke glowingly about Biden. Among other things he said:

"Now, Joe Biden: I'm very close to Joe Biden's philosophy about foreign policy. I suppose of all the candidates out there, including McCain, I'm probably closer to Joe Biden. I think Biden would be a very good president."