First thoughts: Last IA debate

Nashville_fan — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:29:13 GMT

It is humorous to me to hear Senator Clinton and her supporters arguing the case that Senator Obama cannot stand up to the Republicans like she can.

The problem that the Democrats have is that they ALWAYS allow the Republicans to set the agenda, and then play defense for the entire campaign. Senator Obama knows the value of presenting what you will do, instead of spending the entire campaign responding to Republican attacks.

Having a vision for America is much more appealing to me than having experience trading baseless slurs at an opponent.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Trent, SC — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:30:48 GMT

That is one thing that is never discussed. What Red State does Hillary, Barack, John, or Joe win? And, on the flip side, what states do they possibly lose? Understand that Hillary will bring out every Republican under the sun to vote against her, so some Blue States will be at risk of going Red.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Tuck, Realityville,KS — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:30:49 GMT

'Speaking of that 1996 questionnaire, the Obama campaign responded that he didn’t fill it out; his campaign manager did. This isn’t the first time that Obama or his campaign has thrown staff under the bus (remember the Punjab oppo memo?) in the face of adversity.'

just like in 2000 for bush, obama's fanatics won't care.
They aren't reality based, it's like a religous experience, a drug trip for them

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Sean — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:36:03 GMT

Hillary will come through. She will be the comeback kid - or comeback madame. Keep up the hard work Hillary! The country needs you as our next president!!!

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Nashville_fan — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:41:11 GMT

"*** The buck stops here? Speaking of that 1996 questionnaire, the Obama campaign responded that he didn’t fill it out; his campaign manager did. This isn’t the first time that Obama or his campaign has thrown staff under the bus (remember the Punjab oppo memo?) in the face of adversity."

This seems to be some very grim and dire wording for a seeming non-event. But that's just me. A few questions:

How is the statement "I did not fill out the form" equivalent to throwing a staffer under the bus? Is Senator Clinton throwing her staff under the bus when she doesn't know about all the email slurs that her campaing staff is forwarding (3 staffers involved and counting), and she doesn't know about the questions they are planting that she just so happens to have the answers to?

How is the discovery of a questionaire outlining your positions 10 years ago "adversity"? I suspect his positions have not changed enough to warrant a news story, but on the off chance that the have, is that a problem? Every candidate for both parties have changed their positions - some drastically (pro-choice to pro-life, for NAFTA to NAFTA's bad, etc.). After 8 years of George Bush never changing his mind, evidence to the contrary be damned, I'll take an evolution of thought from time to time when the facts warrant it.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:57:49 GMT

Clinton is going to win this thing.

Take a deep breath and just let that fact sink in.

Obama and Edwards maybe having some fun in the retail world of Iowa and who knows what quirky New Hampshire voters will do, but at the end of the day Clinton is too strong, especially in the large delegate rich states.

She is doing it the old school Democratic way. With women, minorities, unions, and the D.C. establishment. That is what wins - period.

A lot of Democrats really like Obama, that is true. he has qualities that I admire. However, at the end of the day Democrats are not going to feed him to the Republicans because he doesn't stand a chance in the general.

The general will not be about starry eyed supporters sitting mesmorized as Obama drones on in his Senatorial prose for an hour and a half. The general will not be about high minded dreaming. The undecided voters in the middle are not starry eyed dreamers.

The general will be political hand to hand combat. At the end of the day Democrats will nominate the candidate best suited to do political battle with the Republicans, and who has the best chance to convince middle America they are strong and can lead at home and abroad.

That candidate will be Hillary Clinton.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

CitizenJ — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:59:02 GMT

Nashville_fan (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:41 AM)

I agree.

Here's my question: Since when is having liberal views in a Democratic primary a bad thing? I realize he will have to answer to those positions in a general, but come on - he's a Democrat. And another thing, can we see the questionnaire? Is it out there somewhere? How do we know it doesn't just say "Do you think Roe v. Wade should be overturned?" Or, "Do you want national healthcare?" Did he have to rate his "liberalness" on a scale of 1 to 5?

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Dante — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:59:29 GMT

Whoa firstread "..this isn't the first time Obama has thrown staff under the bus..", that is truly despicable, I agree with Nashville_fan, I don't recall you making such assertions in light of Clinton's slur campaign for Obama or the planting of questions, I mean really that is the most biased statement...Sheesh!!

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Lyn, MD — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:02:17 GMT

Nashville_fan. I agree with you...how is that different from hillary saying it was staffers sending the email (twice) and she didn't know. But of course you must remember it is the MSM and they will spin it that way against Obama. They are really having to dig to find something on him...at least they have moved up from kindergarden.

What the Clinton campaign and the MSM failed to realize and obiviously still don't is that people who believe in HIM believe in him, unlike Hillary where most of the people supporting her believe in BILL. That list of people continues to grow....once there its hard (if not impossible) to shake them loose.

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BKK, Atlanta — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:07:20 GMT

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Alison, Burlington, Vermont — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:12:25 GMT

Today's CNN poll shows that Obama has caught up to Clinton in New Hampshire, her so-called "Firewall." It's now a dead heat.

I beileve he will take South Carolina by quite a big margin

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lyn, MD — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:14:27 GMT

Anybody wondering about the outragious and bias slur comment from First Read "this isn't the first time....." go to the top and look who wrote it.

That's all that need be said....

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CitizenJ — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:21:49 GMT

Take responsiblity Mr. Obama. How come everytime your campaign goofs-up, it is the staffer that did it? Look at HRC she did own up the mailer that was sent claiming you were a muslim. She fired the responsible people and move on. If you are a president and goof-up on something are you going to blame your staff? That is not leadership. If you cannot own-up to your mistakes that is not showing leadership. Come back after 8 years and I may consider you. Right now I think you are still green.

BKK, Atlanta (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:07 AM)

Wait a minute, I think I am confused by your argument. You are saying that Obama needs to own up and not blame it on his staff. Then you say that Clinton took responsibility for the Muslim email by......firing staff?

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Tuck, Realityville,KS — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:23:20 GMT

thanks all , for proving my point...you all are the democratic version of a Bush supporter.....BLIND

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Kristian O — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:23:38 GMT

Hillary cannot win Iowa. The 15% threshold will put about 25-30% of the votes up for grabs and the 2nd choice percentages are in John Edwards favor given the fact that he leads by a solid margin over both Clinton and Obama in that area. The surprise is how Hillary's lead in New Hampshire/South Carolina has dissipated in a hurry. That has to be a concern for the Clinton Camp given how dominant she "supposedly" was over a 5 month period. This is going to be good because Obama is very popular and likeable.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:26:22 GMT

Daily First Read Truth-Pak-

Trust no one...
The following sites devote as much time and space to Denis Kucinich and Joe Biden as they do to the big three. Whether you are a dem or republican, liberal, moderate or conservative, your candidate is represented equally at these sites. Forget about Big Media and the MSM, create your own narrative.

We don't need anyone to spoon-feed information to us about the candidates or the election, it's right there for everyone if you know where to go. Campaign money, donors expenses, go here

http://www.opensecrets.org/ Opensecrets.org is "Your guide to money in U.S elections."

Just about every poll from every pollster, averaged out, with a link to the source
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ Is THE source for political junkies, with links to every major political site on the right, left and center.

What the candidates actually have said about the issues.
http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm This is a Great site! Every candidate on every issue!

How the candidates have voted and their LIberal/Conservative ratings
http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=asc#vr Has the voting records for all members of congress, and their Liberal/Conservative ratings.

http://votesmart.org/index.htm Here's what they say at the site;
Thousands of candidates and elected officials. Who works for you? Who is seeking your vote? Project Vote Smart, a citizen's organization, has developed a Voter's Self-Defense System to provide you with the necessary tools to self-govern effectively: abundant, accurate, unbiased and relevant information. As a national library of factual information, Project Vote Smart covers your candidates and elected officials in five basic categories: biographical information, issue positions, voting records, campaign finances and interest group ratings.

http://www.govtrack.us/ Do you take transparency seriously? Consider how important to you an open and transparent government is to a healthy society. More work needs to be done to make Congress open. Make a statement to your elected officials by joining now 200 others in signing a pledge for transparency.

Van

First thoughts: Last IA debate

ted orlando — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:28:04 GMT

The Cliton meltdown news at 11:00

what will the Clinton machine think of next. I had some respect for Clinton until she began to panick now her and her campaign just looks silly. Plus it is too difficlut for any one, republican or democrat, to stop a a rival politician who actullay tells the truth and is honest. Obama will win Iowa, NH and SC and then the meltdown will be at a point of no Clinton will not be able to recover.

Go Obama America needs you!!

Obama 08 -

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HMT-MI — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:28:07 GMT

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Rob, MD — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:33:32 GMT

Trent, SC

"What Red State does Hillary, Barack, John, or Joe win? And, on the flip side, what states do they possibly lose?"

I could go through the whole country, but the bottom line for Democrats is Ohio and Florida. Ohio because they've had a Republican bloodbath going on since about 2005 and Florida because despite what the media may tell you, this state is still in play in the South (reasons to complicated to describe in a text block). There is also Virginia, New Mexico, Colorado, Missouri and Arizona. Any one of those states could turn in the next election. All went for Bush in 2004, but trended solidly blue in the elections of 2006.

If Rudy is the nominee, it presents all kinds of problems for Democrats in the NE, but I'd say it makes the rest of the country more competitive in general. New Jersey could fall to Rudy (not to mention New York, Delaware, New Hampshire and Pennsylvania) Possibly the same for Mitt, though I would say less so. Any of the other Republicans (particularly Huckabee) don't seem to change the map to me.

Then again, conventional wisdom may be out the door entirely this cycle. I think Hillary could make Republicans vote, but I also think that might be more hype then reality. If she is the Dem Nominee, she'll have so much money and organization, I think it might have the opposite effect. There will be squealing from the hardcore right, but not business/tax and less ideologically minded Republicans. Once she convinces that financial base that it's not going to hurt investment to have her elected, she'll absorb the fire from social conservatives and ride to an easy victory in Ohio and Florida which seals the deal (55% of the electorate or better).

It's not what I want, just what I predict.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

CJ — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:36:00 GMT

If all Clinton can come up with is try to slime Obama over having liberal views on a questionnare then I'm dissapointed. Instead of winning on ideas and policy...you try to degrade personnal character..that's directly from the GOP playbook. Atleast Obama questions her political judgement not personal character. I would not be happy with a Clinton presidency...

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ObamaRama — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:36:58 GMT

How sweet will it be when all these Obama lemmings go off the cliff with him? The worst thing that could have happened for him was to get close in the first couple of states. Now the press will shine the spotlight on him and he'll evaporate like he has whenever he had to vote on something important. how long will it take for the Obama-bots to cry racism when he starts getting the grilling he should have gotten at the start from the media? Today? Tomorrow?
Won't be long.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

CitizenJ — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:37:44 GMT

why do you worry about every republican coming out to vote against Hillary?They will come out regardless of what Democrat wins the primaries.What you forget is that all democrats will be out there voting,too.I do not think they are clamoring for another Republican administration after what this country is being dragged through.Name one good thing that Bush has done for this country--------we have been destroyed by our own government

HMT-MI (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:28 AM)

I disagree with your point slightly. I saw a poll yesterday that asked Republicans who their favorite Democratic candidate was and Obama is the leader, then Edwards, Richardson, and Clinton in that order. I think it does matter who the Dem candidate is somewhat because I personally believe that Republicans are a little disenchanted with their field of candidates. No one really rallies the party as a whole. If Obama is on the ticket, maybe some won't show at the polls at all who might otherwise come out against a lesser liked Dem candidate.

Having said that, the crucial voting block will be the Independents. It will be interesting to see what really happens in New Hampshire, as they have a large percentage of Independents.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Elaine Summers — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:43:02 GMT

That candidate will be Hillary Clinton.

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC

You certainly seem to have convinced yourself. But this begs the question, why are so many people jumping the Hillary ship for Barack?

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Sierra, SF — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:45:14 GMT

'...the AP reports on "Plan B" which is the Clinton comeback strategy in New Hampshire should they lose Iowa to Obama....'

If Clinton loses to Obama in Iowa...
Watch those 'national polls' evaporate for Hillary !!
If she loses Iowa to Obama....
Watch the 'buzz' (or momentum) lead to an Obama sweep of NH and South Carolina !!

Ding, dong, the witch is dead !!
Which old wictch ?
The wicked Witch !!
Ding, dong, the Wicked Witch is DEAD !!!

(bringing sanity back to this blog)

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Justin Presley — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:46:16 GMT

Iowa really doesn't madder, if it close for all. Which it probably will be. N.H. and S.C. will be the "test". hillaryclinton.com

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diane — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:47:16 GMT

You allude to Obama not being honest about the filling out the form and blaming staff. When he ran in 96, it was his first run and was send tons of these questionaires. His manager helped him out. so what.
Besides, because some of his positions have changed over time as he has matured means very little. they are not sudden and constant flip flops like Hillary. they are natural progression with time and growth.
As for this so called electability: If Obama can go up against the dirtiest campaign in politics, HRC's and walk away looking the better person and more tougher than her, I'd say the issue is moot. He is always making her look foolish.
It is simply silly to say Obama cannot hold his own against republicans.
Unless you concider shouting and beating your chest like Hillary to be tough. And discounting the effectiveness of the subtle and stealth and wit that Obama uses.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Tuck, Realityville,KS — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:47:39 GMT

yes, citizen, the republicans favor the democratic canidate they know they can beat...hence barak is their fav..

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HMT-MI — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:51:22 GMT

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Leye, Richmond, Va — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:51:26 GMT

This will be down to the wire. There might be no clear winner until late in the primaries. Maybe after Feb 12.

In a way it is good for whoever will be the democratic candidate. They would have been battle tested and ready for the Nov elections

First thoughts: Last IA debate

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:52:39 GMT

Wait a minute, I think I am confused by your argument. You are saying that Obama needs to own up and not blame it on his staff. Then you say that Clinton took responsibility for the Muslim email by......firing staff?

CitizenJ (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:21 AM)

Give me a break on this one. If Clinton GOT the email, ADDRESSED to HER with the stipulation that she read it and THEN she blew it off to her staff and then BLAMED them when there was fallout, you'd have a case.
This was a questionnaire, sent to Obama, to be completed by Obama. The lame attempt at moral equivalence is absurd in this instance. Obama has a history of blaming his staff ("Senator from Punjab? That was my staff") for any mistakes or indiscretions in this campaign, rather than taking responsibility.

There's a big difference between forwarding something and writing something or answering questions from a questionnaire sent to you. I wouldn't hold Obama responsible for what a volunteer did on their own (and Obama isn't claiming that a volunteer answered those questions for him, is he?) but he IS responsible for press releases from his campaign and for any material (like the questionnaire) that was to be answered BY him or in his name, with his SUPERVISION.

Do we want a President who would claim that every mistake they make is someone else's fault or responsibility?

I think that you're wrong here, and that when you really think about it (Ask yourself, what if it was CLINTON?) you'll agree that Obama MUST own up and take responsibility for his answers. That's what a LEADER does.

Van

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--NSMSNBC! — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:06:17 GMT

Oh, the Republican debate memories ... *swoons*

Look, neither Clinton anticipated Sen. Obama's smash success for the nomination, he entered the race seemingly out of nowhere. But she has a significant opp. research department (Obama has one too), and now is the time H.R. Clinton's campaign will start to leak such to the media--the silly questionnaire for one. I, for one, won't argue about what will appear as a media bias against Obama, because it's good to test him, and I know he can and will take anything a Clinton has to throw at him!

[the AP reports on "Plan B"]
--Why would the Clinton campaign have a 'Plan B' if she hasn't even considered that she won't receive the nomination. Ha! Clinton's getting scared.

Threw under the bus FR? Maybe, he was simply telling the truth. Seriously though, is a silly questionnaire anything that honestly matters, and questionnaires have history of not mattering in the past for other candidates? If we could all decide who to vote for based on a questionnaire ... It doesn't offer the in-depth look at a candidate. Bring it on Hillary! Bring it on media! Barack Obama is the man, unshakeable, the real deal, nothing will stick, can you say Mr. President?

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Rick, WS, NC — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:06:33 GMT

The squishy sound you keep hearing are the dims shuffling closer to the cliff of electoral oblivion...this nation will not elect a man who is black president...heck even the most liberal states don't have black leaders...the reps like obama because they want to run against him even more than hillary...can you imagine the ads with all of the code words that even work with registered dems?

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:07:40 GMT

Trent:

Actually, that's not true. "Every Republican under the sun"...I don't think so. You see, there are moderates in the Republican party who don't think that Hillary Clinton is pure evil. They may not vote for her, but they don't see her being elected as a descent into the sixth circle of Hell.

Also, keep in mind that the wrong candidate for the GOP could do a lot of damage to their party as well if they are staying ideologically true to what the party stands for - which is not gay rights and a woman's right to choose.

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Travis, Louisville, Ky — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:12:20 GMT

Do we want a President who would claim that every mistake they make is someone else's fault or responsibility?

Um... we already have one of those. Oh and also being in California, I understand your jealous hate for Hillary and the complete frustration it must cause you to know that Hillary is going to bulldoze not only this election, but the same state you live in will both vote for her for the democratic nominee as well as the president of the u.s.

Wow, your very own state is behind Hillary more than about any other state in the union, excluding maybe New York. Tell me, does that simply burn you up inside? Just curious, of course.

So, sing your sad songs, because you know singing about dead witches is so incredibly original... for movies that came out 60 years ago, perhaps. I know I will be crowing my Barack Is OUT celebration come Tsunami Tuesday. For then, hold on to the marginal, at best, hopes that someone other than Hillary is either the Democrat or President.

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Lauren, CT — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:12:22 GMT

Clinton keeps selecting weak lines of attack. I find this whole "calling out Obama for being liberal" matter particularly worrying. It's factional cannibalism.

Broadly speaking, the Democratic party is the party on the Left, and the Republican party is the party on the Right. The Republicans have been in power for a while, so they have tarnished the designations of "liberal" and "Left" with negative connotations. Why is Clinton taking these up and running with them? If people buy the idea that being liberal is a problem, this will only hurt her as the Democratic nominee in the long run. Because anyone sufficiently wary of liberalism will just vote Republican, anyway. Fear of liberalism is the only thing that can counteract the disgust of neo-conservatism that is currently sweeping the US.

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Freeman Female Dallas, TX — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:14:52 GMT

Here we go again, Clinton is not winning

So Van is back to posting links ONLY again.

Find a False Poll that shows Clinton in the LEAD

And Van will post that number again and again till it BLEEDS.

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:16:39 GMT

Barack Obama is the man, unshakeable, the real deal, nothing will stick, can you say Mr. President?
--NSMSNBC! (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 11:06 AM)

Nothing will stick? I agree, not as long as every single one of his supporters is willing to excuse anything and everything he has ever done wrong in his life - including using cocaine as a high school student. Nothing wrong with that, since he was honest about it.

Or how about those "present" votes on pro-choice issues. I have heard it suggested that this was the strategy of Planned Parenthood and/or other pro-choice organizations and that is why he did it. If that is true, then rather than standing up for what he believed in (a cornerstone of his entire campaign) Obama did what an interest group asked him to do. How do you reconcile that with his message of change?

I have always said I like Obama. The difference between myself and Obama supporters is that I don't think he can walk on water. I don't think he is the second coming of Christ. I don't think he should be on the short path to sainthood. I don't consider him a savior. He is an intelligent politician. He is a man. He is human.

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Jim in Iowa — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:18:58 GMT

#1 national polls are fickle.
#2 Hillary, Obama, Edwards all do similarly against any of the republicans. Slight percentage differences, but nothing to warrant a stronger electability quotient.
#3. All candidates have their strengths and weaknesses. Both Rep and Dem.
#4. Support the candidate you like. Let not bash within party. The strongest candidate will normally emerge based on money, organization, and visibility. Trust the process. That is the American version of democracy.
#5 I don't like the money aspect of #4. It is not democratic. Dodd, Biden, and Richardson are all strong candidates without money. They all have a lot of positive qualities that Iowans like, but they lack money and organization. People want to support someone who has a chance of winning a caucus and getting the magic 15% that is needed for delegates. So they then go to a more viable choice. i like any of the Dems against any of the Republicans. The Reps have the huckster, the flip flopster and the mobster. Lordy that is a no brainer.

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Robin Hester, Southern Florida — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:21:41 GMT

Iowa and SC look to be lost for Clinton. NH is in the balance. Hillary better be looking at Plan C, which I believe is slinking back to the Senate and figuring out who she will endorse.

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CitizenJ — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:25:59 GMT

Citizen J--I understand what you mean but I cannot see any Democrat sitting out this election if Obama is the candidate----------give us credit for being smarter than that.Even the independents do not want to lose this election with apathy.

HMT-MI (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:51 AM)

I don't think Democrats will sit out, I think some Republicans might decide to sit out depending on who the Dem candidate is. I don't think it will be many since this election is perceived to be so important, but when there isn't one candidate that the party can really get excited about, it's more likely that some people will sit out. BUT, the Republicans are known for falling in line when it matters most, so who knows.

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Kristian O — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:27:52 GMT

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Rino Masters — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:28:23 GMT

Hillary leads in the national polls because many of the people in the later election states have not started to take a look at her yet. Hillary had big leads in the early states of Iowa, New Hampshire, and SC, but once people started paying attention, the leads evaporated. Same thing with the later states, once people seriously look at Hillary as the election draws near, they turn to other candidates.

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CitizenJ — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:35:01 GMT

I think that you're wrong here, and that when you really think about it (Ask yourself, what if it was CLINTON?) you'll agree that Obama MUST own up and take responsibility for his answers. That's what a LEADER does.

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:52 AM)

Van,

The post your are referencing had nothing to do with whether he actually filled it out or whether Clinton had anything to do with the email. I was just confused at the argument the poster was making. He/she said that Obama needed to take responsibility and not blame his staff. Then he/she compared it to Clinton taking responsibility for the email by firing (blaming) staff. It just doesn't add up.

I don't believe Clinton personally had anything to do with the email. She's too smart for that. I think it was an overzealous staffer. BUT, I also don't see what is so bad about this questionnaire regardless of whether he filled it out. He has liberal views on guns, abortion, and healthcare? And? One of the biggest issues on the trail is universal healthcare. That is pretty damn liberal. All the Dem candidates think Roe v. Wade should be upheld and abortion should be the woman's choice. Also pretty damn liberal. I guess I just don't see the significance of it.

Also, is the questionnaire available to read? What were the actual questions? All I know is that he had "liberal" answers.

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Kevin, Houston, Texas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:37:27 GMT

Attacking Obama for being too liberal?!?!?!?
What the !*?>

It's the DEMOCRATIC primary.

I hear the Reps attack each other for not being conservative enough.

The Reps have framed liberal as being a dirty word and the fact that Hillary is now attacking her opponent for being too liberal is unacceptable.

Where is Krugman now?

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--Nicholas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:37:32 GMT

Carrie--I'm from Minnesota. I frequently walk on water. Ha!
: )

"I don't consider him a savior. He is an intelligent politician. He is a man. He is human."
*I will and have agreed with your sentiment exactly. I like to think that I don't support Obama, Biden, McCain or Huckabee; I support myself and my own interests!

: )

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vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:39:48 GMT

"Find a False Poll that shows Clinton in the LEAD
Freeman Female Dallas, TX (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 11:14 AM)"

Post one false poll, whatever that is, JERRY, and then maybe everyone will stop wondering what you're ranting about. Have you ever posted ANYTHING here that didn't begin with MY NAME?

Here's the source of the, "false polls", JERRY.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

Go, ferret out those FALSE polls, show us the FALSE polls. WE want FALSE polls. lol Expose the false polls I post and make me slink away, or start slinking yourself.

Soon, you'll be posting under another name.

Van

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Amber, Georgia — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:41:34 GMT

Only the media wanted a clearcut winner in the beginning. I agree, it could go to the late states for once if Hillary hangs in there, even if she doesn't win Iowa and NH (although I do think she will win NH), but still, Hillary still leads with the core democrats. Now Obama has a excellent chance. But I worry he will be eaten alive during the general election and I still think the South won't want a AA to win the presidency. They will settle for a woman before a AA unfortunately. The media has been talking for months how this will be sewen up quickly. But I am beginning to think it might take to February 5, or later for this to be settled. And there is that pesky thing called voting practically, not with your heart because you don't think the person in your heart can win. I think it's a crap shoot. The polls are meaningless now. To many showing different things. But Obama better worry now that many consider him the momentum front-runner. Someone can come up from behind!

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vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:45:08 GMT

Yo Van, What's up? Do you agree that we have a race that'll extend pass the Super Tuesday or the coronation that eveyone expected for Hillary Clinton? Peace. Kristian.

P.S. Lets try to keep this civil. Nothing personal at all.

Kristian O (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 11:27 AM)

When you address a comment or question to an individual, it IS personal.

No I don't think there will be much of a race at all, and Hillary will have the nomination sewed up on Tsunami Tuesday. I think senator Obama is a good man and will be a major force in the democratic party for decades to come, and could be president someday.
Thanks for asking.

Van

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Nashville_fan — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:46:11 GMT

Carrie wrote:

"I have always said I like Obama. The difference between myself and Obama supporters is that I don't think he can walk on water. I don't think he is the second coming of Christ. I don't think he should be on the short path to sainthood. I don't consider him a savior. He is an intelligent politician. He is a man. He is human."

I am curious to know why the enthusiasm of Obama supporters continues to be brought up as a negative. I would agree that Senator Obama cannot walk on water and he is indeed not Christ. When has Senator Obama ever claimed to be any of these things?

Senator Obama is an exciting figure in American politics who has given a voice to many Americans who don't understand why our elected leaders cannot find a why to work together to do the people's business. The Obama campaign is as much about us as it is about him.

Should we squander our opportunity to reunite our country because Senator Obama voted present on an abortion bill, experimented with drugs in his youth, and let a surrogate fill out a questionaire? I think not.

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Bee — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:53:58 GMT

I have always said I like Obama. The difference between myself and Obama supporters is that I don't think he can walk on water. I don't think he is the second coming of Christ. I don't think he should be on the short path to sainthood. I don't consider him a savior. He is an intelligent politician. He is a man. He is human.
Carrie, Eastern Iowa
------------------------------------------------

Obama will be the first person to tell you that he is not a perfect man. Even, his wife reminds him everyday how imperfect he is; thus, I’ll like to take my chances with him.

Like I have said in the past, Obama is the best Democratic Party has to offer in this election. How can you choose Clinton over Obama? I just can't fathom it, it is impossible. I’ll pick Biden, Edward before I even get to Clinton. Please join the train of hopefulness and let us change this nation for the better. If Obama wins the election, I expect Joe Biden to be his secretary of state if not vice president.

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FREEMAN FEMALE, DALLAS, TX — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:56:33 GMT

Sweetie VAN, the name is Freeman Female and always has been. Pure and Simple.
I dont' need to take a another identity to post my thoughts. And you are one hypocrite because you do the same.

As I said, YOU are getting NASTIER AND NASTIER as your favorite drops in the poll just like I said you would.

You will stop posting Actual POLL NUMBERS when Clinton starts losing her lead just Like I SAID YOU WOULD.

When all the normal polls you were posting five months change their tune to OBAMA instead of Clinton then you will use FALSE misleading polls just LIKE I SAID YOU WOULD.

As Clinton fades when the actual Votes are placed (which is better than a poll) You will DISAPPEAR from this blog JUST LIKE I SAID YOU WOULD.

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Rick,ky — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:59:01 GMT

The Establishment is so PISSED off at Barack for continuing the Awakening of N0V-2006. Damn him for giving the American voter the chance to take back this country before the Establishment can recklessly piss away all that this country stood for for over 200 years.The Establishment, thru there backing of Hillary has tryed & tryed to shake this man from the Voter's. So far. he has SMACKED them down every step of the way.He has already shown US, YOU KNOW THE VOTER'S, he has what it takes to be POTUS.Beware Barack, do NOT let your guard down for 1 second, We, the Voter's are depending on YOU to be OUR leader against the Good Ole Boys club. STAY STRONG, BE KEEN, we will be your defense as You continue the Offensive against the Establishment.

Dickie Flats & all the other Hillary supporter's, get ready, for an Ass-Whooping, there is No stopping this thing. Get on board!!!!!!!!!

" DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER"

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Bee, NH — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:00:02 GMT

No I don't think there will be much of a race at all, and Hillary will have the nomination sewed up on Tsunami Tuesday. I think senator Obama is a good man and will be a major force in the democratic party for decades to come, and could be president someday.
Thanks for asking.

Van

-------------------------------------------------
Common Van, you've got to admit that this race is not going to be decided on Super Tuesday. All bets are off on Hillary at this point and the moment she goes negative on Obama, count the election lost for her.

Many African American she is banking on are shifting their allegiance. If I were her, I’ll be negotiating for the position of Vice President…lol...

Obama is an American darling. Everybody loves him including some of his foes except for Hillary.

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:00:57 GMT

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Rick,ky — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:12:37 GMT

Van, maybe you should be asking your candidate to disclose, Why, way back in 1968 or 1972, she went & interned for a known Communist. Has barack or anyone else running against her, brought That to the forefront. No, Not Yet!!! In Politics, nothing is ever hidden forever. Some say, how will Barack ever stand up to the GOP. The better question is, If she can't beat Barack, then how in the heck can she ever hope to defeat the GOP? The trend's are looking like she won't Ever get the chance. THANK GOD!!!!!!

BTW : Barack has beaten back EVERY attack with his WIT. The American voter likes that Positive attitude.

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Freeman Female, Dallas, TX — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:18:52 GMT

In the interest of full Disclosure and I challenge my fellow posters to do the same. DON'T HIDE YOUR RECORDS and Have me Disclose Mine!!!

Freeman Female, Give us your history!!!

I am Freeman Female, living in Dallas, TX originally from a little town in Alabama on the Tennesse River. A black single woman, engineer, living in Dallas for the past 10 years.

Freeman Female, have you ever posted as anyone else in this blog?

ONCE, Yes, my first post, I used my authentic first name. I then changed to Freeman Female and all of my posts have been under that name. I swear.

Freeman Female, who is your candidate?

Obama, Obama, Obama - He is the most realistic of all the candidates. I believe he tells what he thinks of the issue even if it disagrees with others.

Freeman Female, do you work for any campaign?

No, I have never worked for any campaign in any paid aspect. I have given for the first time in my life to Obama in a Presidential election. The only other presidential campaign I have given to EVER is when I checked the box on my income tax to give $3 to the Federal Election Committee.

I did attend a Jimmy Carter Rally in Tuscumbia with my dad as a little kid. That is it.

Thanks everyone and VAN, for reading my full disclosure like my candidate, Barack Obama.
Anyone else?????

Enjoy!!!!!!!

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vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:18:57 GMT

FREEMAN FEMALE, DALLAS, TX (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 11:56 AM)

Where are all the false polls? Come on JERRY, where are they? What's false here is you and your rantings.
No false polls? Post one. Post one or admit that you're not being honest in your rant. You won't, because you can't. It's a pretty silly premise to begin with, but one you must now either prove or retract, and that would take honesty and character.
What are the odds...

Van
(Bring on the false POLLS!)

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Kristian O — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:19:37 GMT

Yo Van, when I meant personal I was speaking from a potentially confrontational standpoint. Obviously I was asking you for your opinion, but it was more about keeping it above board than getting into the childish banter that can happen here from time to time.

I see that your confidence is still very high about your girl Hillary, but you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time. The tide has turned and it'll be interseting to see how things pan out over the next 8-10 weeks.

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Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:24:12 GMT

Dicke Flatts: I live in a Democratic county in upstate NY and there are very few people who support Hillary up here (not a scientific study, purely an anecdotal observation by an anti-Hillary partisan). However, believe me when I tell you that the Republicans up here will dig up dead relatives to vote against Hillary and the Democrats either will not vote for her in the general or will be not very enthusiastic supporters. This myth about her great electability is just that, a myth. I truly don't understand why she generates such disdain from Republicans, but she does. And the Democrats I speak to (this is a University community) are much against her position on the war. Nostalgia for the 90's will not be enough to turn this election for her. I daresay that even Bill Clinton has tarnished his own reputation during this campaign, reminding people of his own inconsistancies and doublespeak; he should have let sleeping dogs lie.
Obama '08

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:24:37 GMT

Nashville:

The point is that, at least from what I have observed on here, Obama supporters are not willing to admit that he makes mistakes. They are not willing to admit that he has weaknesses. If you question anything that Obama does, you are wrong. All the time. There is always an excuse, always a justification and never a "yeah, he messed up."

There is always spin. Which is fitting, because after all, he plays the same game as everyone else. He just hasn't been playing long enough to come into the game with a lot of baggage.

Perhaps it is good that he runs now. The shorter the record, the easier it is. The more you have done, the longer you have been around, the easier it is to find reasons to not support you.

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:24:43 GMT

The actor also had some harsh words for Kucinich's frontrunning rival for the Democratic nomination, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY). "Let's remind our friends in the social circles of New York and the highbrow winner-friendly and monied major cities that support Mrs. Clinton, that this is not Bill Clinton," he said, going on to praise the former president. But he warned that the same "personal agendas" that led to what he characterizes as poor policy decisions from the president could rub off on the former first lady.

"Don't underestimate the damage her poisonous ambition can do to this country," he said of Sen. Clinton. "We can't wait for the benefit of hindsight to service the benefit of Mrs. Clinton's career." Penn took another shot at Clinton while speaking about the recent Democratic debate in Las Vegas. "I found the debate infuriating, nearly an argument for fascism with few exceptions, key among them Dennis Kucinich," he said. "Of course as a strategic politician, Mrs. Clinton pulled out her set of Ginzu knives and dominated once again on 'centrist' political strategy."

I guess this means Sean Penn is not a fan of Hillary Clinton....

I heard the tape, sounded like Jeff Spicoli.....

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:26:26 GMT

Bee:

Pay attention, one last time.

I AM CAUCUSING FOR BIDEN.

I have said it repeatedly but you don't EVER pay attention to what anyone else says.

But between Clinton and Obama? You're right, I will take Clinton any day of the week.

And by the way, since you don't pay attention you have missed the fact that Biden has stated he will nto be anyone's SoS or VP. If you want Biden, it's gonna have to be at the top of the ticket.

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:27:39 GMT

http://www.nysun.com/article/66933

That is the link to the story Rick,ky is talking about.

Hmmm
I can see why the press left this story alone LOL.....

Goes to show that Hillary Clinton is a socialist...

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Dot, Illlinois — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:33:31 GMT

Nashville fan

I admire Senator Obama, will support him happily if he wins the nomination, but there is a feeling within me, that urges caution when listening to him. Obivously, he has many of us dreaming about a better America, a more hopeful America, a "changed" America. Who wouldn't be inspired by his rhethoric? But when the adoring crowds go home, when the applause dies down, and when he sits in the oval office, he will have to be able to deliver on those promises. Will the established Washington element allow him to success to "change" the process? Does he have the experience and skill to work with that establishment to bring about a new order? Often good intentioned, well meaning newcomers, are suffocated by that establishment and find it difficult to change anything. Look at the newly electect Demoncratic Congress--so many of us hoped they would effect major changes especially with respect to the war in Iraq. But, the established Washington rules and insiders, made that impossible.

I suppose what I am saying is that I hope the spirit of change and hope that Senator Obama raises in his supports will not be dampened by the politics of reality and that his supporters will not be disillusioned.

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:36:25 GMT

After Hillary Clinton clerked in the summer of 1971 at an Oakland, Calif., law firm run by attorneys with ties to the Communist Party, she never returned to work there. But she stayed in touch with one of the firm's partners and his wife, and they stayed in touch with her, until they died. The decades-long correspondence illustrates the complicated relationship between Mrs. Clinton and radical activists who were often frustrated by the failure of Mrs. Clinton and her husband to side with them.

I can see why the DailyKOS people have problems with the Clinton's. The radical side of the demo's have always had problems with them.

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vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:36:46 GMT

"Van, maybe you should be asking your candidate to disclose, Why, way back in 1968 or 1972, she went & interned for a known Communist."

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the, "positive", spirit of the Obama campaign, Rick,ky. No slander too low, no lie beneath repeating, despite the origin or source.
To highlight the schizophrenia of this post; After opening with a slander from the ickiest depths of the right wing slime machine, one that is and has been discredited a dozen times over and presenting it as a FACT, with no attribution (Based on his own, "research(?)he doesn't even seem to know WHO, the alleged communist is, or even when the, "crime"(?)of interning occurred;"way back in 1968 or 1972..." or '65, or '78...) We get, "The American voter likes that Positive attitude." ?????????????????????????

I challenge you to produce documentation and source of your slander, Mr. Positive, or to admit that you are simply smearing Clinton with the kind of right wing dirty LIE, that all democrats will be subjected to in the GE and that no decent self-respecting democrat would attempt to pin on someone who just might be their party's nominee.

Yeah, everyone loves a positive attitude...

Van

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vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:42:25 GMT

Goes to show that Hillary Clinton is a socialist...

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 12:27 PM)

What it shows, by your interest in the bogus story from the fringe paper , is that you're still sure that Clinton will be the nominee, otherwise you would be moving on to attack another democrat. Thanks for the support...

Van

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:48:50 GMT

I challenge you to produce documentation and source of your slander.....

Van:

Scroll up a bit....
I put the link on the story of Hillary working for the communists....

Also there is a story about Bill and Hillary and their romance int he summer of 1971 when she was working for the commies....

And also a story about why Hillary and Bill have such a hard time with the DailyKOS crowd.....

For a guy who just loves his girl....
It's amazing how we have to educate you about her at times......

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vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:49:10 GMT

For Rick and Jerry and anyone else malicious or gullible enough to fall for their act.

In "Clinton Chapters" segment, Hannity omitted key points from journalist on whose reporting he based the segment

Summary: During a Hannity's America "Clinton Chapters" segment highlighting Hillary Clinton's alleged "connections with a communist law firm," host Sean Hannity omitted key points from reporting by The New York Sun's Josh Gerstein despite Hannity claiming his report was "based on reporting from ... Gerstein." Specifically, Hannity asserted that Jessica Mitford, the wife of one of the partners at the firm where Clinton held a summer internship, "decided to use her connection to the Clintons to get the state of Arkansas to drop the extradition or to completely pardon" an escaped fugitive after Bill Clinton had become Arkansas governor. But Hannity didn't note Gerstein's reporting that the Clintons rebuffed the request. Hannity also questioned whether Hillary Clinton had "sympathy with the Communist Party" in deciding to clerk at the firm but failed to note Gerstein's reporting quoting a partner in the law firm calling Clinton "much more of a classic liberal than the rest of us."

The rest of the long, long, list of lies, inaccuracies and willful misinterpretations that comprise the aritcle can be found here;

http://mediamatters.org/items/200712040010

and by a simple search on Goggle.

Van

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Freeman Female, Dallas, TX — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:56:11 GMT

False Poll Alert and Disclosure

Van posted the Zogby poll when it showed Hillary in the lead. In previous posts in earlier months he said it was not a reliable poll.

True or False, Van???

I have also posted the poll that you dismissed earlier and then used at a later date.

I have done my full disclosure on myself, my records and my history of posting in First Read in my post above. Will you do the same or will you still get nastier?

The people are waiting. Mine is already in black and white.

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Nashville_fan — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:56:15 GMT

Dot and Carrie,

Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I found a quote that pretty much sums up my feelings about the decision that is before us this campaign season.

"High achievement always takes place in the framework of high expectation. " - Charles Kettering

I'm tired of settling for the lesser of two evils. Things will never get better if we don't even try . . .

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just curious — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:59:55 GMT

obama says his experience in foreign affars is partially from being educated overseas and hillary because she hung around the white house for 8 years! my questions are if where you were educated is experience why ain't i governor of n.y. or cal. as i went to school there and if coupling with bill at the white house is experience why isn't monica lewinski running for president because she had experience under bill!? just curious.

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Travis, Louisville, Ky — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:00:12 GMT

How can we chose Hillary? Oh, I don't know, maybe her strength, passion, not being Republican, married to Bill Clinton, not being Bush or related to him. Seems like a seriously obvious answer. Now the real question is, after years of being beaten down by the Republicans why in the serious (expletive) are democrats even mulling over the potential to nominate a man who's gonna say... okay, well you were the bad guys, but thats because you were in power - you're all forgiven. Oh, here Scooter Libby, I'll pardon you since Bush wouldn't. Republicans have done everything in their power to ruin any democrat there is even a remote scandal in reference to, and I'm voting for HIllary because payback is fair game. They've been marginalizing, demonizing, swift boating, and outright lying about my party's affiliation for far too long. I want Hillary to win if nothing more than to make Sierra and Jerry's heads explode.

Now, why are you considering voting for someone who's pledging to pull out of this bipartisan war first. Guarantee you, Obama wins Dem nomination, he loses, and badly. So let's really get to the main question, why are you helping the Republicans out by electing Obama.

Should this happen, and Hillary not win, I will, of course be exploiting my superiorty of intellect with my vote for Clinton. Stop picking the wrong choices - we did it with Kerry in 04, let's not be stupid enough to do the same thing 4 years later with Obama.

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Rick,ky — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:01:22 GMT

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Travis, Louisville, Ky — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:03:53 GMT

Now that Hillary's 20 point lead in New Hampshire has gone down the drain (according to CNN), one has to wonder how desperate the Clinton's are going to get.

Despite all their denials, I am sure Bill and Hillary have their cat o nine tails working overtime beating the troops to find something they can smear Obama with and so far it has not worked. Between Hillary and her inability to answer questions and Bill lying through his teeth on Iraq and trying to make it look like he was a bad president (no need to act on that one Bill, you were a bad president), one has to wonder what other tricks the Clinton's have up their sleeves to make them look foolish?

Hey Jerry, how's Bush's presidency going? Nuff said. Oh, and Hillary will be your president in 2008. I can't wait to never see your monicker on this website again. Freedom of speech is great, but I fully believe freedom of idiocy should be a felony.

I'm sure nobody supporting Republicans values anything to do with science, be it art science, natural science, or anything even really involving literacy, Hi Bush again.

Jerry, you don't dislike Bush, because you don't have the problem of having a higher I.Q. than the president. Democrats, on the other hand, usually have difficulty submitting to people considerably less intelligent.

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Joanne Underhill, Denver, CO — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:06:10 GMT

Hillary has done an incredible job in the Senate. She has been focused upon issues and solutions and to that end worked very effectively with Republican senators on legislation benefitting women, children, and other domestic issues. She worked closely with and co-sponsored legislation with some of the same Republican senators who led the impeachment fight against Bill during the 1990s. I remember reading news articles that quoted these Republican senators speaking about Hillary in highly complimentary terms -- because she studies the issues, does her homework, and works hard. A Hillary Clinton presidency would no doubt have the usual political battles, but it would also be marked by meaningful problem solving and bipartisanship on numerous domestic issues. World leaders know and respect her from her days of traveling the globe representing the U.S. during Bill's presidency. She excited crowds wherever she traveled for the U.S. Hillary has real substance as well as style, strength, political savvy and campaign know-how.

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Travis, Louisville, Ky — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:07:28 GMT

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Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:17:41 GMT

Dot:
I would expect that there will have to be a tamping down of the rhetoric of hope engendered by Obama's campaign as his administration progresses. We're not children, I think we all understand this. But isn't far better to start off with lofty ideals and a pledge to keep to them as best as one can? To me, most of the other candidates are so tarnished by the politics as usual (and this excludes, Edwards, Kucinich and Paul in addition to Obama) that they start from a much worse position.

However, my support for Obama is also pragamatic. I believe that of all the candidates (and that includes Biden and Richardson, although these two would have talents to lend to an Obama administration), he is the one with the world view that is most likely to lead this country on a path to a successful foreign policy. He believes in diplomacy first, but by all means is not a pacificist and will be strong enough to use force when it is demanded.

To digress for a minute, nothing irritates me more than claims by McCain that Bush's military surge is responsible for the 'relative' improvement that we are seeing in Iraq at this time. There is no way that a 15% increase in troop strength could have accomplished this. In fact it is primarily because of Sunni co-operation (because of the change in affections vis a vis Al Qaeda) with American forces that there has been any improvement at all.

However, this war as most of us know was a grave mistake and any lull in violence now is just an eye in the storm of a civil war. The Sunni feel it is their right to control the forces (both economic and political) in Iraq and will once again rise to challenge the now installed Shia government. The unrest of the past five years, other than providing for fertile ground for the propagation of Al Qaeda, had nothing to do with 9/11 and was a conflict erroneously and arrogantly unleashed by an intellectually deficient administration. Not only did it distract us from our goals in Afghanistan but it destabilized the Middle East with repercussions that are with us for years to come. I think that this murky problem, fraught with potential for greater unrest, demands an administration with great intellectual capacity in terms of dealing with cultures and interests that are foreign to us.

Obama has demonstrated this intellect and a thoughtfulness necessary to respond to these problems. In addition he has a staff of foreign policy advisers (numbering approx. 200) that are committed to his approach in the region.

Diplomacy will be first with force, as a last resort, always on the table. I feel that he is comfortable with all aspects of execution of foreign policy and will not have to 'prove himself' in reacting to the challenges that are certain to present themselves in the next decade.
Obama '08

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Freeman Female, Dallas, TX — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:19:19 GMT

Travis, I wasn't addressing you directly. Matter of fact, that I was quite courteous to anyone who decided to read my post other than Van.

But it would figure that a Hillary supporter has nothing to add to a post except for insults for those who do not support their candidate. Or are you really Van and need to use another name instead of disclosing your records????? Hmmm......

Birds of a feather......

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:24:45 GMT

Jerry, you don't dislike Bush, because you don't have the problem of having a higher I.Q. than the president. Democrats, on the other hand, usually have difficulty submitting to people considerably less intelligent.

Travis, Louisville, Ky (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:03 PM)

If that is the case Travis.....
Then Hillary has a lot more dumb people then i first thought.

Everyone thought the democrats were the smartest people on earth......
That 11% approval rating the democrat controlled congress has shows how smart they truly are......

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vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:26:44 GMT

Freeman-

That self-interview was a hoot! The zogby you again errantly cite, was an INTERNET poll, like the ones that show Ron Paul leading the republicans, or the ones at various websites. The poll was discounted by everyone, except it appears, you, and NOT included in the RCP averages Link posted daily by me).
The zogby poll that was conducted by telephoning respondents and adhering to the standard model of weighted polling, is included in the RCP averages.
It was not I who discounted the internet poll, it was the polling community, as all internet, "voting", polls are. As to my posting a "false" poll, here's the link to the zogby I cited, from RCP;
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/democratic_presidential_nomination-191.html#polls
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2061107620071121

Now, go and find the discredited internet poll you are so worked-up about and show everyone where that one is in the RCP averages.

While this reply is far more factual and civil than deserved based on your previous postings and attitude,I'm responding to your allegation more than your person.
Many things have been said about me here, but the only allegations worth refuting are those that impugn my honesty. I am a partisan Clinton supporter, but I have never shied away from posting the polls and links to the polls no matter what they say, nor do I shrink from confronting false accusation with documentation.

Van

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:27:29 GMT

Hillary has done an incredible job in the Senate.

Joanne:

Here is her record in the Senate to show how incredible her job is......

• Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site

• Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month

• Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor

• Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall

• Name courthouse after James L. Watson

• Name post office after John A. O'Shea

• Designate August 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day

• Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day

• Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death

• Congratulate the Syracuse University Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.

• Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship

• Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program

• Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda

• Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death

• Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty.

Yeppers....
With a record like that, she could get a food inspector job in any city in the country.....

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Justin Mayfield — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:31:54 GMT

The only people who really truly want Hillary are special interests. So some feel she is the only hope of beating the Republicans, & some just want a woman (no better a reason to vote for than against), & some loved President Bill and are hoping for a sequel, etc. Senator Obama would be a better candidate, except I believe there are parts of our country where it will be hard for a man of color to win and others where his Islamic sounding name will be a huge liability. Edwards and Biden are old news. I really believe the Democrats of the last few elections have been out of touch with the need to appeal to the center in order to win. Yes, they play well in some places with a lot of electoral votes, but there are a lot of states where they will need some people in the middle to have a prayer.
If he were able to get his message out and had the right support, I think Gravel would be a much more electable choice. In any case, I will enjoy watching the drama work itself out this year and have every reason to expect that the Democrats will find a way to shoot themselves in the foot yet again. I just hope that whoever ends up as President has the sense & the intestinal fortitude to get us out of the middle east, and back to concentrating on our own troubles.
And in case anybody is interested, I recommend you register Republican and support Ron Paul. Here is a man who wants to make America a better home again. He has a keen grasp of the issues facing us and is honest enough to try to fix them.
Thank you.

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vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:33:52 GMT

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vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:39:53 GMT

What gives van? Hillary ( Not her campaign chair in Iowa) started the Obama is a Muslim email. It circulated & circulated, never gaining traction. Then 1 day, someone up & traced it it back. Then Hillary in all her Honesty, said someone in her capaign did this with her Not knowing.The sky is Green, heck, even I know that. Mushroom, anyone?

Rick,ky (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:01 PM)

I am waiting for an honest and decent (and you know who you are) Obama supporter to tell this guy off.
Of all the disgusting things that I have read here, this one is near the top.

Van

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MK, Los Angeles, California — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:41:47 GMT

Senator Obama's campaign has debunked the whole "not consistent positions" storyline that Senator Clinton's campaign has been feeding to the media with respect to the 1996 questionnaire. Take a look:

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/11/fact_check_no_news_in_obamas_c.php

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Freeman Female, Dallas, TX — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:43:20 GMT

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Jade — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:44:32 GMT

Speaking of throwing people under the bus, we have only to look the Clinton record of 1992 to 2001.

A partial list of names reads: Vince Foster (tragic suicide), the seven White House Travel office workers (fired and rehired when charges were untrue), Lani Guiniere (yanked nomination), Zoe Baird (yanked nomination), Jocelyn Elders (invited to resign), DeeDee Myers (invited to resign), George Stephanopulous (run-in with Hillary, resigned), Webb Hubbell (jail), Susan McDougal (jail), Jim McDougal (jail), Mack McClarty (resigned), Gov. Jim Guy Tucker (jail), Paula Jones (at least she got some money for her pain), Juanita Broaddrick, Gennifer Flowers, Kathleen Willey, Monica Lewinsky (she got crushed by the bus), Linda Tripp (she did a bad, bad thing and got steamrolled), Al Gore (impeachment, Clinton fatigue and sleaze factor made it impossible to run without having to run away from the Clintons).

Democrats who support Hillary suffer from a combination of amnesia -- failure to remember the WHOLE of the Clinton presidency (co-presidency???) good and bad, and nostalgia.

The problem with both is that post-amnesia, when you get your memory back you're shocked you could blank out so much, and post-nostalgia, you're shocked that you thought it was all wine and roses, when it was thorns and vinegar.

When Clinton Democrats snap out of it, they'll choose someone else to lead them. We Obama Democrats believe he is the one.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:51:18 GMT

MK, Los Angeles, California (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:41 PM)

Yes, you gain much credibility here when you direct folks to a candidate's website...I suggest you go here;
http://www.joebiden.com/
http://chrisdodd.com/
http://www.richardsonforpresident.com/
http://johnedwards.com/
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/

With my apologies (and Kudos) to CitizenJ

Van

First thoughts: Last IA debate

CitizenJ — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:52:18 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:39 PM)

I stated this before: I don't think Clinton is that stupid to personally write an email about Obama being a Muslim. Nor is she so stupid to even have her high level staff write it. In all likelihood it was a low lever, overzealous staffer who thought they were doing Clinton a favor (if it even originated within the Clinton campaign). I guess they were wrong.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:07:03 GMT

Van, please answer the questions. I am not Jerry. I am not a paid supporter. Can you say the same?

Are you a paid supporter?
YES or NO

Do you post under other aliases in First Read?
YES or NO

Don't change the subject now!!!

Freeman Female, Dallas, TX (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:43 PM)

Dear Jerry, I'm not you either...

Freeman Female is all about picking fights and not about being able to admit mistakes.
No one here is paid, who would pay them? I'm willing to accept compensation (cash only, please) if anyone (ANYONE?) offers though.
EVERYONE here posts under an alias, or screen name. I have but one, and considering that 20-25% of today's posts are directed to me, I have my hands full with the ONE I do have.

So, Jerry/Female (Don't you LOVE the idea of JERRY being a BLACK WOMAN?)LOL, now that you have answers to your burning questions, how's about owning up to your misrepresentations?

Van
(Don't sweat it, I know that you won't)

First thoughts: Last IA debate

vanreuter, NY NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:22:18 GMT

In all likelihood it was a low lever, overzealous staffer who thought they were doing Clinton a favor (if it even originated within the Clinton campaign). I guess they were wrong.

CitizenJ (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:52 PM)

Thanks.
Why, though, do you put forth the assumption that,"in all likelihood...", without any reference ANYWHERE to that possibility in the reputable media, yet won't accept the Obama questionnaire without documentation, despite the fact that there has been no denial (that I have seen, to it's existence or the answers that have been published, from the Obama campaign?

Unless I saw something that indicated that something was probable, let alone likely, when it comes to a charge this potentially serious, I wouldn't characterize the charge as likely; And, with all due respect (and I really do respect your opinions here, whether I agree with them or not.) stating, in parens, after claiming that Clinton's camp are the likely culprits, that, "if it even originated within the Clinton campaign."
is tantamount to, "damning with faint praise."
I would have hoped for a more spirited denunciation of a truly disgusting accusation, but I do thank you for adding your voice, as an Obama supporter, to denounce this kind of slander here.

BTW-I believe that the letter J is simply an, "I" bent out of shape...:) (Take that!)

Van

First thoughts: Last IA debate

John Doe, The Peanut Gallery — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:30:33 GMT

"Yesterday, it held a hastily arranged conference call with reporters, seizing on a 1996 Obama questionnaire (displaying his liberal positions on abortion, guns, and health care) that a rival campaign gave to the Politico (there are more questionnaires out there, by the way, which aren't flattering for Obama)."

You care to comment on why a person seeking the Democratic nomination for President having liberal views on guns, abortion, and health care is some how not flattering to Obama?? The Democratic Party is, after all, you know... liberal.

Frankly, the fact that Clinton DOESN'T have a questionaire listing liberal positions that I have heard about speaks to why she shouldn't be the Democratic nominee. But these are the same people who tried to convince me that Obama giving money to Demcoratic candidates trying to get elected in 2008 was somehow bad.

Clinton is desperate. And if the trend lines on the recent polling (statewind is what matters First Read, we don't have a national primary) hold she should be.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:32:14 GMT

Freeman Female:

Van is just like his boss Hillary....
he can't answer the tough questions either.....

First thoughts: Last IA debate

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:00:58 GMT

Yeppers....
With a record like that, she could get a food inspector job in any city in the country.....

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:27 PM)

How many times have you re-posted that same cut&paste now? I know the comedy writers are on strike, but do you have to re-run your clown act so often?

Van

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:33 PM)

Unlike you Van, that uses a bunch of worthless polls that supposedly have your girl winning, I use the official US Senate website to pull my records.

That is her official record if things she sponsored that got taken care of.....

Will she ever get a bill passed that President Bush can sign???????

Probably not...
She should stay in the Senate and pick up her paycheck every two weeks.....

First thoughts: Last IA debate

CitizenJ — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:07:37 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 2:22 PM)

Van,

I put "in all likelihood" because it is just that: in all likelihood. I don't know FOR SURE that it did't because, well, I just don't. I guess I could have come up with something stronger than "in all likelihood". The chances that she personally did it are probably about as good as being struck by lightening.

And I accept the Obama questionnaire. I really don't see why it's such a scandal that he would have liberal views on guns, abortion, and healthcare. I would like to see the questionnaire, though. We've seen the email, why not the questionnaire?

P.S. Your name makes me think of large, cumbersome vehicles that are good only for hauling garbage :)

First thoughts: Last IA debate

jerry/corpus christi texas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:09:10 GMT

The rest of the long, long, list of lies, inaccuracies and willful misinterpretations that comprise the aritcle can be found here;

http://mediamatters.org/items/200712040010

and by a simple search on Goggle.

Van

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 12:49 PM)

You mean media Matters, founded by Hillary Clinton?...

Of course you would go to the source.......
Anything Hillary put together must be the truth right Van?

Van:

Why would Hillary be the founder of a company that looks for dirt on her enemies?

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Rick,ky — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:19:57 GMT

BTW Van, I don't recall seeing You or any other Hillary supporter calling for the obama email to be stopped. You all seemed to want to let it float around the internet. Your Holier than thou bullcrap is just that, It's Bull sh_t.As another poster pointed you out with your Hype up Hillary polls, you'll be gone soon, then poster's on here won't havta scroll past your Nonsense on a daily basis.Take your Holier than thou attitude with ya.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Vicki, Omaha NE — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:45:58 GMT

I've been around for a few presidential elections (I am 60) and one thing I've found about us Democrats is that we like to shoot ourselves in the foot every now and then. We do have a group of strong candidates this year, intelligent, erudite, good communicators and experienced in the ways of governing our country. And it looks like--here we go again! Mr. Obama is a nice looking young man with a lot of intelligence and natural charm. However, he does not walk on water, he must be held to the same standards of other candidates without his devotees yelling discrimination and he is still untested. There is a reason Karl Rove is telling Obama on TV what to do with Hillary and there is a reason that the Republicans are hoping to run against the Senator. The simple truth is that their machine will make mincemeat out of him and his non-record and non-votes. He may come out of the Chicago political machine but they are amateurs compared to what the conservative Republicans can do to this young man. He may want it now--and Oprah may want him to have it now--but he is not ready to run--or to govern!

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Just The Facts — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:50:40 GMT

Carrie,

Biden has NOT stated that he would not consider being ANYONE'S SOS or VP only that he would not be Hillary's VP as it would be a figure head position with the former president as 1st spouse.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

JR, NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:52:51 GMT

Hey people chill. No matter who wins in Dem primary, the Repubs will come up swinging mud and lies, that is what they do best. Any Dem candidate is better then the crap this country has had to endure for the last 8 years and the current list of Repub. numbnuts (Bush Clones). Obama is too green. The country has been pounded into dislikeing Hillary,but these same people will go after Obama. He has a lot of potential, but not ready for prime time. Dems need to stop the circle fireing squad and concentrate on what they can do to stop the bleeding from this administation.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Vicki, Omaha NE — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:56:50 GMT

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Dot, Illinois — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:59:05 GMT

Mitchell Feldman

Thank you for the response. I commented on a diffrerent story on this site that mentioned the war in Iraq was no longer a major consideration for many voters in our country and wondered if that applied as well to our efforts in Afghanistan. I have always felt that more of our nation's attention and weaponry should have been directed toward the terrorists in Afghanistan than at the sectarian fighters in Iraq. I don't think anything good for the US can come from the progress the Taliban is again making in Afghanistan--the situation there really unnerves me because attention on that area seems to lacking. Doesn't a strong Taliban presence in Afghanistan make it easier for Bin Laden to recruit followers and to carry out activities? I just don't understand why this doesn't concern many voters.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

John B, Des Moines, IA — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:05:11 GMT

jerry, You know that the Democrats in Congress are have a higher rating than GW and the 11% rating is both erroneous and held at a low level because of Republican obstructionism. You know that HRCs involvement with the Democratic Leadership Council belies the very Communist sympathies you're alleging. You know that Hillary Clinton didn't start Media Matters. You know that your list of Clinton's accomplishments is deliberately incomplete and misleading. The rest of us know that truth and accuracy are not your highest priority.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Michael T - Gig Harbor WA — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:18:13 GMT

Just watched the GOP debate on [M]ore [S]xxx [N]o [B]rains [C]rap TV - and perhaps because America's national "MEDIA" had absolutely to do with it, it WAS without a doubt, FINALLY, a debate of substance. These people were asked REAL questions.. had to discuss REAL issues - and not just that canned pablum people national media has been drowning us with.
After, I watched Mathews discussing the debate - and was very surprised he didn't get a heart attack fuming bout the De Moine Register ignoring his particular latest sound bite on that guy Huckabee. I find Mathew beyond sad, given the fact that he once upon a time was one HELL of a good journalist, and in the old days wouldn't have slithered around in sewers trying to get "ratings".
Till this debate I was very much up in the air bout who would be the best "republican" to support if I didn't like the dem. Dems are mosty whooses and of course, I can't swallow hard enough to vote for Clinton to represent my country.
IF you're like me (use to be republican - now, an independent) you don't much care bout the insanities the hard right and hard left - you want someone able to bring "dignity" back to our country. We ARE after all a good people and don't deserve the slap and crap we are getting around the world. So a good debate was sought after - the CNN controlled debates being a total JOKE - and now finally, we got one, one that brought up the issues we American's are concerned with (with the exclusion of Iraq - but then, is there any question that after five years, TRILLIONS of dollars in the hole, 4,000 dead Americans, and a country still afraid to even go to the bathroom because f Bush's fumbling, that we need to get out).
Like I said, they talked about REAL stuff. Anyway, this debate finalized for me just who now, I should throw my money behind - that guy Huckabee. You ought to watch it to see who YOU think would make the best president. They ALL were presented somewhat honestly I think.
Nte: I'm swinging to the Huckster cause I especially liked his answer bout education - we DO need to bring back things like music and the arts... Huckabee's statement bout how NOTHING is going to get done in Washington unless we have a president able to pull us all back together as a people, wasn't bad either.
My dilemma now it appears, is just who to vote for if it ends up being Huckabee vs Obama.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Mikey, NY — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:35:05 GMT

Okay. Obama is not god. He is not the savior. The reason people being so enthusiastic as being bad is that it blinds you! The reason him blaming his staffer is bad is cause it is supposed to be HIS VIEWS not his staffers. That's like me taking my mothers check and me forging her signature. Lets be serious. Every Obama butt kisser is a Hillary hater and every Hillary worshiper is an Obama Hater. Tit for tat. If you want my opinion, Edwards is the democrats best bet. Also all the Republican candidates are all disgusting if you ask me. Deffinately one of the worst groups of losers to walk the face of the earth. Huckabee? A preacher? Want to talk about a huge mistake. SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Gays will never get rights with him in office, the world will end.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:43:11 GMT

Carrie,

Biden has NOT stated that he would not consider being ANYONE'S SOS or VP only that he would not be Hillary's VP as it would be a figure head position with the former president as 1st spouse.
Just The Facts (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 3:50 PM)

Actually, he has stated he would not be SoS for anyone: "Under no administration will I accept the job of secretary of state."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071129/ap_on_el_pr/political_play_of_the_day

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Just The Facts — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:50:09 GMT

Carrie,

I stand partially corrected. Thanks for the info.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

My Country Tis of Thee — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:57:38 GMT

See the last two posts? This is how you exchange information and make informed decisions. Those of you who argue, name call, and state the rediculous are shameful. Hopefully we all want the same thing..A BETTER AMERICA!

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Betty Jean S., Santa Fe — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:39:39 GMT

Van is a 'mo and Travis is his buddy.
Enough already!

First thoughts: Last IA debate

DJ, no where important, Earth — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:51:08 GMT

WOW! What a bunch of babies you all are. Self absorbed, narcissistic, grandiose whining spoiled brats!
What is at stake here? You? NO! The country is what you should be considering when voting; not your own selfish agendas.
Give it a rest already, stand up, be accountable, stop being emotional, and do what is right for the country as a whole.
As it stands right now, I wouldn't want anyone on this blog to cast their vote! Whackos!

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Steve Bing tacoma, WA — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:06:52 GMT

I don't understand why there are so many idiots heaping praise on Obama and talking about his vision for America?

Raising taxes and giving all kinds of perks to illegal aliens...Yeah that's some great vision for America that Obama has. He's an empty suit political hack who won't come anywhere near the white house.

After all the years of blaming everything on the right wing attack machine and hiding out in safe environs Hillary will have to step up to the plate and answer some real questions in the general and she will of course fail miserably.

The next president is going to be either Romney or guiliani.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

MPM — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:31:01 GMT

Lee Iaococa has a name that sounds like Iowa. Co-incidence? Perhaps. But I now see Matin Sheen has joined the Bill Richardson Campaign. I feel there is better than 50/50 chance we'll see Governor Bill Richardson in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place when the vote is counted in Iowa.

I see a better class of people voting for Bill Richardson and they are cool headed types that just get the job done without extensive childhood illegal drug use of marijauna or crack cocaine abuse or whatever to deal with life's simplicities. I get tired of people blaming their personal up bringing as an excuse to use illegal drugs for life's woes which must haunt us all the same way. However, when my boat doesn't come in, I don't blame it on society and I don't then use illegal drugs to cope with it all. I just say it is my fault for what ever reason and let me re-think how I can make it work better for me next time. Simple.

Life is simple, and it's the illegal use of drugs that makes it harder, not vice versa. I can't stand people or candidates that spin this simple truth.

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Marbw — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:46:35 GMT

Fact Check: No News In Obama's Consistent Record
December 11, 2007
RHETORIC: "When Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) was seeking state office a dozen years ago, he took unabashedly liberal positions: flatly opposed to capital punishment, in support of a federal single-payer health plan, against any restrictions on abortion, and in support of state laws to ban the manufacture, sale and even possession of handguns."

REALITY: As evidence of Obama's "unabashedly liberal positions," the reporter points to a questionnaire that Obama never saw or approved. It was filled out by an aide who has conceded she never got Obama's sign-off. Some of the answers accurately reflect Obama's position. Others do not.

RHETORIC: "The questionnaire, which was provided to Politico with assistance from political sources opposed to ObamaÂ¹s presidential campaign, raises questions of whether Obama can be painted as too liberal and whether he is insufficiently consistent."

REALITY: Obama has been consistent on every issue raised in the story. See below.

DEATH PENALTY
REALITY: OBAMA CONSISTENTLY SUPPORTED THE DEATH PENALTY FOR CERTAIN CRIMES BUT BACKED A MORATORIUM UNTIL PROBLEMS WERE FIXED...

1999: Obama Said That Certain Precautions Had To Be Taken Before One Could Consider The Death Penalty, Supported A Moratorium. "As for death penalty moratoriums, Obama, who's also a constitutional lawyer, said unless proper due process exists, no one should be put on death row...'I was a main sponsor of a bill that would have put an immediate moratorium on the death penalty,' said Obama. 'We need to put more resources into the Public Defender's office, so they can do things like DNA testing and take other means to make sure you've got the right person before you consider the death penalty.'" [Chicago Weekend, 9/23/99]

2004: Obama Said He Supported The Death Penalty For Certain Crimes, But Did Not Support How The Death Penalty Was Administered. Obama said, "I support capital punishment for heinous crimes. I cannot, however, support the current system which is rife with error and lacks sufficient safeguards against wrongful convictions." The Chicago Tribune reported, "Obama qualified his stance, saying that his support eroded further when looking at how the death penalty 'is currently administered in this country.'" [AP, 3/10/04; Chicago Tribune, 2/20/04]

2007: Obama Said That He Supported The Death Penalty For Certain Crimes But Opposed The Death Penalty In Its Current Application And Would Not Change Those Views To Attack A Republican Opponent From The Right. Obama said, "That was something about him that I respected. Because my own views on the death penalty are very complicated. I've said that in theory I don't object to the death penalty for heinous crimes--terrorism, mass murder, child killers. But, in its application, it's been racially biased, highly unreliable, inconsistent. So for me to try to pretend that I was a cheerleader for the death penalty, simply to score a political point, that wasn't reflective of my views." [New Republic, 11/29/07]

AND LED THE FIGHT FOR REFORM IN ILLINOIS

Obama Played A "Key" Role In Passing Death Penalty Overhaul, "Made A Difference On A Matter Of Life And Death." The AP reported, "Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama can honestly claim to have made a difference on a matter of life and death. While an Illinois state senator, Obama was key in getting the state's notorious death penalty laws changed, including a requirement that in most cases police interrogations involving capital crimes must be recorded... Enactment of the 2003 law was a huge political achievement in a state that had been deeply divided over problems with capital punishment." [AP, 11/12/07]

"Without Barack's Energy, Imagination And Commitment I Do Not Believe The Very Substantial And Meaningful Reforms That Became Law In Illinois Would Have Taken Place." "'Without Barack's energy, imagination and commitment I do not believe the very substantial and meaningful reforms that became law in Illinois would have taken place,' said author Scott Turow, a member of the state commission that recommended many of the changes." [AP, 11/12/07]

SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE

REALITY: OBAMA HAS CONSISTENTLY SAID THAT SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE IS A GOOD IDEA IN PRINCIPLE, BUT THAT WE NEED TO BUILD ON THE SYSTEM WE HAVE RATHER THAN START FROM SCRATCH

If Obama Were Starting From Scratch, He Would Support A Single Payer System. The New Yorker wrote, "'If you're starting from scratch,' he [Obama] says, 'then a single-payer system'-a government-managed system like Canada's, which disconnects health insurance from employment-'would probably make sense. But we've got all these legacy systems in place, and managing the transition, as well as adjusting the culture to a different system, would be difficult to pull off. So we may need a system that's not so disruptive that people feel like suddenly what they've known for most of their lives is thrown by the wayside.'" [New Yorker, 5/7/07]

GUNS

REALITY: OBAMA HAS CONSISTENTLY SUPPORTED COMMON SENSE GUN CONTROL, AS WELL AS THE RIGHTS OF LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNERS

Obama Supported A Package Of Legislation That Would Limit Handgun Sales To One A Month. ''The package closes the Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) card loopholes which resulted in the shooting out in Melrose Park. We're eliminating 17 specific assault weapons. There is no reason why anybody should need an assault weapon to protect themselves or their family,' Obama said. 'We're limiting handgun sales to one a month. 'We're calling for handgun registration. It's very hard right now to track whether or not a felon has turned in his weapons or if he has a FOID card because we don't know how many weapons he has purchased.'" [Chicago Defender, 2/20/01]

Obama Voted To Prohibit Multiple Sales Of Handguns Within A 30-Day Period. In 2003, Obama voted to create the offense of unlawful acquisition of handguns, prohibiting the multiple sales of handguns within a 30-day period. In 2000, Obama was co-sponsor of bill prohibiting the transfer of more than one handgun within a 30-day period. The bill exempted federally licensed firearm dealers who purchase handguns in the regular course of business, military, law enforcement officials and certain hunters. [93rd GA, HB 2579, 5/16/03, 3R L; 23-36-0; 91st GA; SB 1614; 2000]

Obama Disagreed With The NRA That "People Should Be Unimpeded And Unregulated On Gun Ownership;" In Favor Of Handgun Registration And Licensing Requirements. Obama said, "I know that the NRA believes people should be unimpeded and unregulated on gun ownership. I disagree. I do not object to the lawful use and ownership of firearms, but I do think it is entirely it appropriate for the state to monitor it. Too many of these guns end up in the hands of criminals even though they were originally purchased by people who did not have a felony. I'll continue to be in favor of handgun law registration requirements and licensing requirements for training." [Chicago Defender, 7/5/01]

Obama: America Has A "Tradition Of Gun Ownership In This Country That Can Be Respected." The Weekly Standard reported, "When a student asks Obama for his views on the Second Amendment, he reminds his audience that he taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago and is thus familiar with the arguments regarding the right to bear arms. He acknowledges 'a tradition of gun ownership in this country that can be respected,' and says that his academic studies convinced him gun ownership 'is an individual right and not just the right of a militia.' But he was not finished. 'Like all rights, though, they are constrained by the needs and the rights of the community.' Obama then spoke of 34 students who were killed on the streets of Chicago and called for sensible gun control to prevent senseless death. He speaks of the importance of parental involvement in education before listing the many ways in which he would expand the role of the federal government in the schools." [Weekly Standard, 12/17/07]

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/11/fact_check_no_news_in_obamas_c.php

First thoughts: Last IA debate

Marbw — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:02:48 GMT

To Dot:
Obama helped to deliver the first significant campaign finance reform law in Illinois in 25 years. He brought law enforcement groups around to back legislation requiring that homicide interrogations be taped and helped bring about passage of the state’s first racial-profiling law. He was a chief sponsor of a law enhancing tax credits for the working poor, played a central role in negotiations over welfare reform and successfully pushed for increasing child care subsidies (NYT, 7/30/07). As a Chicago community organizer, Obama notched accomplishments ranging from job-training programs to a successful attempt to improve city services at the Altgeld Gardens housing project, chaired a voter-registration drive that helped carry Illinois for Democratic presidential candidate Bill Clinton in 1992 and led an effort to acquire state money for a dropout prevention program that still operates today.
---
I believe that, based on Barack Obama's self-written books 'Dreams from MY Father' and 'Audacity of Hope'/
his work throughout the years to give voice to the voiceless and hope to the hopeless(poor and union-workers)/ his speeches etc, he is a better candidate. He did not just happen upon Dem principles in this campaign, he gave up hundreds of job offers over 20+ years ago to go work for $12,000/yr in one of the poorest neighborhoods in Chicago. He graduated magna cum laude/head of Harvard Law Review/Civil Rights Attorney/taught constitutional law for over 10 years etc. He was finally able to pay off his college debt using proceeds from his first bestselling book.

"As a state legislator, Obama worked with both Democrats and Republicans in drafting successful legislation on ethics and health care reform. He sponsored a law enhancing tax credits for low-income workers, negotiated welfare reform, and promoted increased subsidies for child care. Obama also led the passage of legislation mandating videotaping of homicide interrogations, and a law to monitor racial profiling by requiring police to record the race of drivers they stopped. During his 2004 general election campaign for U.S. Senate, Obama won the endorsement of the Illinois Fraternal Order of Police, whose president credited him with having been "immensely helpful in working with police organizations" on death penalty reform."
While in the US Senate Obama has passed Lugar-Obama, a bill that expands the Nunn-Lugar cooperative threat reduction concept to conventional weapons, including shoulder-fired missiles and anti-personnel mines. He has also passed the "Coburn-Obama Transparency Act" provides for a web site, managed by the Office of Management and Budget, listing all organizations receiving Federal funds from 2007 onward, and providing breakdowns by the agency allocating the funds, the dollar amount given, and the purpose of the grant or contract. In addition to those two he has also gotten through the "Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act," which had his name on it as the first sponsor.
He also worked with Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) in strengthening restrictions on travel in corporate jets to S.1, the Legislative Transparency and Accountability Act of 2007. And then Obama sponsored with Kit Bond (R-MO) an amendment to the 2008 Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for a review by the Government Accounting Office following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs. He sponsored the "Iran Sanctions Enabling Act" supporting divestment of state pension funds from Iran's oil and gas industry, and joined Chuck Hagel (R-NE) in introducing legislation to prevent nuclear terrorism. He also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries.
"I sit on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee," he said. "So I have frequent interaction with world leaders who come to visit here, and I take trips on various fact-finding missions, whether it's to Iraq or Russia or Africa. But you know, probably, the strongest experience I have in foreign relations is the fact that I spent four years living overseas when I was a child in Southeast Asia."
"A lot of my knowledge about foreign affairs isn't just what I studied in school -- I studied international relations when I was in college -- it's not just the work I do on the Senate foreign relations committee.

Barack Obama is on the following committees in the US senate:

Senate Foreign Relations Commitee
Senate Commitee on Veterans' Affairs
Senate Commitee on Health, Education, Labor, Pensions
Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

In 2004, he won(70% of votes) the Illinois senate race(12% African-American population only--won over 75%) with more votes than JKerry. He won all voter demographics. (Obama--over 3.5 million votes//Kerry--over 2.8 million//GWB--over 2.3 million).