Moving the goal posts?

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:17:43 GMT

Moving the goal posts?

Yiannis, Baltimore — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:17:45 GMT

All that Hillary is interested in is to inject fear and smear:

"Kindergarten essay"
"Drug use"
And today: "a large number of students from Illinois may caucus here

Moving the goal posts?

Patrick, Huntington Station NY — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:18:07 GMT

Iowa is not the United States of America. It doesn't chose the next dem nom. There are 49 other states that will do that. So, Hillary, don't worry if you don't win Iowa. You'll do well on the super primary day.

Moving the goal posts?

--nsmsnbc — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:19:44 GMT

Moving the goal posts? Where have we seen that before ...

Hmmm, Bush ...

Cheney ...

Iraq ...

Ice from which of the following has been detrimental to people?
a) Ice storms in Iowa
b) Ice storms in Florida
c) The ice cube that is Dick Cheney's heart

Moving the goal posts?

jerry/corpus christi texas — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:21:20 GMT

She also went on to say her experience in Iowa is lacking, due to her husband’s decision to never campaign there, while going up against Tom Harkin in 1991 and 1992.

Thought her campaign was all about being experienced..

Moving the goal posts?

diane — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:23:11 GMT

Not hedging but, an excuse to trash her rivals - again.
You'd think she would have learned by now but, it seems along with poor judgment and timing, HRC suffers from not learning from her mistakes.

Moving the goal posts?

CitizenJ — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:23:21 GMT

Edwards should have the most organized Iowa campaign since he has been entrenched there for years.

But I'm not buying the "neighboring state" argument. I'm sure he has his share of name recognition due to living in a neighboring state, but the people of Iowa know who Hillary Clinton is. Her husband was the president for 8 years. Obama has no advantage in that respect. And neither of them have ever campaigned there before, so they started on a level plane there as well.

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:27:23 GMT

Diane:

I'm sorry, where exactly is she trashing her rivals? She stated a fact - she is not from a neighboring state, nor has she spent years in Iowa. THAT is trashing her rivals?

You have got to be kidding me.

Moving the goal posts?

Dante — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:27:54 GMT

They are trying to be slick once again, trying to put something out there to diminish the impact of an Iowa win by Obama or Edwards. She didn't bring any of this up when she was ahead in the polls in Iowa. She didn't say, "Wow, I am surprised given that Obama is from neighboring state,...etc.". She said she was ahead b/c of her experience, etc. Iowa voters are the most tuned in voters and there vote does matter and show the country that they need to know more about Obama and Edwards, because alot of people that have been paying attention all year, believe that they are the best candidate!!

Moving the goal posts?

Dante — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:28:07 GMT

Moving the goal posts?

Bee, NH — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:31:20 GMT

Hillary candidacy is a joke because they relied on Bill Clinton to do everything. She is toast; not only will she loose IOWA, she will also loose NH, SC, AL, GA, IL, VT, MA, MD, KY, IN, KA(Obama's parent state),DE, VA, WI, AZ and SD.

Moving the goal posts?

Ron, TX — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:33:44 GMT

Does she ever actually stand up for HERSELF instead of trashing other people to try and make herself look better?

A couple months ago, Clinton was ahead HUGE in ALL of the early states. Now, it doesn't look that way any more. They're trying to hedge their bets so that when they lose Iowa, they can still act like she's still "the most electable" (the most electable loser? hmm!). However, no one in NH or SC is going to buy it. If she loses Iowa, and, as it may very well be turning out, if she loses Iowa by more than just 2 or 3%, she is DONE.

Fineman says it quite well at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22217110
"" Hillary Clinton’s campaign is teetering on the brink, no matter what the meaningless national horserace numbers say. The notion that she has a post-Iowa “firewall” in New Hampshire is a fantasy, and she is in danger of losing all four early contests, including Nevada and South Carolina – probably to Sen. Barack Obama, who is now, in momentum terms, the Democratic frontrunner.""

Moving the goal posts?

Keith, San Francisco, CA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:36:55 GMT

Wow. Managing expectations. Her internal numbers must look atrocious. How else do you explain this? She has one of the best caucusers running her Iowa team since the spring. She's moved her senior staff there and hired another 100 staffers (bringing her to 200+). And now this.... the writing must certainly be on the wall in bright, bold letters.

Moving the goal posts?

Bee, NH — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:41:55 GMT

Here is another backlash of a negative campaign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXPnMflGkvI&feature=user

Moving the goal posts?

Grace, — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:42:31 GMT

Moving the goal posts?

Clara M. Morgan, Orlando, FL — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:44:31 GMT

Hillery,

Please go back to the kitchen where you are confortable.

Moving the goal posts?

Smart Enough To Make Up My Own Mind, NY, NY — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:45:04 GMT

Bee, NH.....you must be slipping - it took you all of 5 minutes to get your Obama monologue on line. But I'm sure your busy working on your 32 other comments you'll post today. It's boring enough to hear it from Obama himself but your continual regurgitation of the Obama mantra is tiresome. Most of us are intelligent enough to form our own opinion - we don't need you to repost every pro-Obama line you can fine. So sad that yourself, the "other" Bee and Sierra, SF are so bitter....what are you possibly going to do with your time when he loses the nomination? Vote Republican?

Moving the goal posts?

Kaye Miller, Wenatchee WA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:46:17 GMT

I recall that at one point she was touting growing up in the "neighboring" state of Illinois. Seems she does not want to mention that anymore. Anyone else recall that early in the campaign, some of her "staffers" were saying they were not going to spend much time in Iowa and then Hillary came out to reassure supporters in Iowa was very important to her and she would be campaigning there. My opinion is that she is now backpedaling seeing that her support in Iowa is fading. What will be her excuse in New Hampshire?

Moving the goal posts?

CitizenJ — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:48:14 GMT

Somebody give me the names of 3 State Senators from one of your neighboring states without looking them up.

Moving the goal posts?

Rose, DC — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:48:47 GMT

Looks to me like there is a double standard for Hillary when compared to everyone else. Just being honest, all the Whites claiming they will vote for Obama publicly will have brain freeze in the voting booth. That's my prediction. While Obama and Hillary have split the black vote (44-44%), only 16% of white democrats say they would vote for Obama. Let's see, 16% of white Dems + 2 % of white Repubs - hummm.... looks like a wasted vote to me.

Moving the goal posts?

Patrick, Huntington Station NY — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:50:47 GMT

Hillery,

Please go back to the kitchen where you are confortable.

Clara M. Morgan, Orlando, FL (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 11:44 AM)

-----------
Clara, you've obviously spent too much time in the heat of the kitchen because her name is spelled HILLARY not Hillery, and you are a sorry excuse for a woman to say what you did. You are obviously a self-loathing woman. Do us all a favor, and stay in the kitchen on election day, and when you have the urge to post on this blogg again, cook something instead for your man and kids.

Moving the goal posts?

Sam Delano, CA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:52:21 GMT

Well it seems like Team Hillary is trying to prepare her supporters for an upcoming loss. This is great. Just an FYI to Hillary supporters, its not too late to join a "real movement." Obama will welcome your support and votes...Look for us at the swearing in, we'll be the ones in red shirts, Fired up and ready to Go!!!

Moving the goal posts?

Alex, Fairfield, Ohio — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:53:54 GMT

Moving the goal posts?

jerry/corpus christi texas — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:55:06 GMT

Hillery,

Please go back to the kitchen where you are confortable.

Clara M. Morgan, Orlando, FL (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 11:44 AM)

I read the New York Sun story where she baked Bill a peach pie in 1971....
No wonder the man has an appetite.
No wonder he had to have his tubes unclogged.....

Moving the goal posts?

Gavin, WI — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:57:11 GMT

If you listen to Clinton's own words via the MSNBC Interactive "Candidates & Issues Matrix", it becomes quite clear that on every issue Hillary is a preacher of fear and gloom. She would rather scare Americans away from other candidates than influence them with her own opinions. This is not the type of leadership America needs or deserves.

Moving the goal posts?

TruthnMedia — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:59:24 GMT

Racism has crept into the Clintoon campaign. One has to wonder....Has it always been there? even the mice are abandoning this sinking ship. How much will Clintoon blame the republicians for her failure as a candidtate and as woman,

Moving the goal posts?

Mark — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:59:24 GMT

Hillary INC is lowering expectations. She may end up winning Iowa which would give her a strong push in NH. Look for the expectation games to be played out until c day. Edwards is going to win Iowa (do or die really for him). Obama will be second. Followed by HRC INC. If the independants vote for Obama, New Hampshire is his. If not it will be HIllary INC. South Carolina will be Obamas. Hillary INC will win Nevada. Super Tuesday will be the big day. Typically that tilts towards the establishment or candidate with momentum.

Moving the goal posts?

carter mobile — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:00:32 GMT

http://massresistance.org/romney/

Moving the goal posts?

Bee, NH — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:01:27 GMT

Carrie...you are a true sockpuppet...read you in Ben's column yesterday declaring yourself a new Clinton supporter who had just made the decision to caucus for her. Why should anyone believe anything you or your candidate says

Grace

-----------------------------------------

I thought I was the only one that saw that post from the greatest pretender who claimed to like Biden.

Moving the goal posts?

Rose, DC — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:10:09 GMT

When has race not been an issue in any election? Get real.

Moving the goal posts?

Ike, Springfield, IL — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:10:27 GMT

I live in the neighboring state. I guess I could beat Hillary in Iowa. Baloney!!!!

Several months ago, when her Iowa chair advised her to skip Iowa although, was the best advise Hillary rejected. Since then, she has fortified her efforts in Iowa. She's had as much chance as everyone else, if not more (she was first lady for 8 years).

The truth is, Iowans don't buy into all that experience crap from someone who messed up healthcare and voted for the war in Iraq.

Moving the goal posts?

Stephen, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:11:03 GMT

Moving the goal posts?

HMT-MI — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:14:35 GMT

While I would vote for Hillary or Obama in the national My preference is John Edwards----and I hope he wins Iowa--------and no I would not vote for any republican----I saw what they did in congress yesterday----keep on giving the big tax breaks to the oil companies---to hell with the taxpayers.Bush is only for the big corporations and the republican Bush clones seem to be deathly afraid of him---gues they are going to line their buddies pockets until 2009

Moving the goal posts?

Joe Justice — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:15:08 GMT

More pathetic smarm from the ever-victimized Clintons.

Moving the goal posts?

Thomas Deardorff — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:16:24 GMT

Well it seems like Team Hillary is trying to prepare her supporters for an upcoming loss.

Repeat in NH
Repeat in SC
Repeat in <fill in the state>

People are going thing Hillary's last name is 'Trailing' because we're going to see so many "Hillary Trailing" headlines.

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:20:15 GMT

Carrie...you are a true sockpuppet...read you in Ben's column yesterday declaring yourself a new Clinton supporter who had just made the decision to caucus for her. Why should anyone believe anything you or your candidate says
Grace, (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 11:42 AM)

I'm sorry, are you referring to me? Who is Ben, exactly? I have stated on this blog that I intend to caucus for Biden.

Moving the goal posts?

MK, Los Angeles, California — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:21:38 GMT

Take a deep breath. Did you ever stop to think that what Clinton is stating is merely the obvious?

What she didn't say is that Iowa is also one of only a few states NEVER to have elected a female gov or Senator.
Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC

But I thought she was in it to win it. I guess that does not apply to Iowa, New Hampshire, or South Carolina. Oh well, we still have NY.

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:22:48 GMT

Grace, can you send us a copy of Ben's column? I think it's been quite obvious that Carrie has been in the Hillary Corner from day one. She's always jumping on the least bit neagtive information about Obama while simultaneous praising anything positive about Clinton. I don't think anyone truly believed that she supported Biden!
Alex, Fairfield, Ohio (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 11:53 AM)

Alex:

And who are you, again? Oh yes, just another nobody who feels the need to trash my integrity in the name of loyalty to another candidate.

Moving right past the ignorant fool...

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:26:06 GMT

I thought I was the only one that saw that post from the greatest pretender who claimed to like Biden.
Bee, NH (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 12:01 PM)

And what precisely am I pretending? That I like Biden? Sorry, only one campaign has gotten the benefit of my bank account, and that is Biden's. But of course, you won't believe me because you are incapable of thought that does not center around bashing Hillary or anyone who says something in defense of Hillary.

And why the hell do you feel like you have the right to question MY integrity on anything? You do nothing but bitch about Hillary all freakin' day. Get a damn life and shut the hell up about me. I have not said barely two words to you in the last week because your pathetic ignorance had grated on my last nerve. But yet you still go on and on about me.

We like different people. GET OVER IT.

Moving the goal posts?

CitizenJ — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:27:38 GMT

I'm wondering why more media aren't talking about new national polls that show Edwards as the best Democrat to beat any Republican contender? Even on television the Republicans are acknowledging that they're afraid of an Edwards candidacy since he beats their candidates by up to 30 points in some polls in head-to-head national match-ups. Doesn't that seem newsworthy in an election story?

Stephen, Los Angeles, CA (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 12:11 PM)

Stephen,

If these polls hold true 6 months from now, then it would be pretty newsworthy. But, it is far too soon to have any national head-to-head general election polls that are truly meaningful. Yes, it is impressive and somewhat newsworthy that he does the best right now, but I don't think anyone really believes that ANY of the candidates would win by even 10%, much less the 30% that Edwards is up by.

Moving the goal posts?

nctodc — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:30:20 GMT

She was the First Lady for eight years. I'm pretty sure everyone knew her in Iowa before she declared for the presidency.

Moreover, if success within a state can be determined by the amount of time you've spent in a state or the proximity to your home state, why's Hillary tied with Obama in New Hampshire?

Moving the goal posts?

Jan, Nashua, NH — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:33:42 GMT

re: "A couple months ago, Clinton was ahead HUGE in ALL of the early states."

We're re-writing history here.
Edwards led Iowa for months. Clinton started in third place.

I don't mind one bit agreeing that the polls are trending Obama's way, but some of you are dreaming if you think a loss in Iowa will be the end of Hillary Clinton in terms of the rest of the race.
As far as I can tell from the few state polls that have been conducted more than once by a particular polling org, Clinton is holding her own.

I think, perhaps, you don't know the woman, nor do you know her supporters.
(Clinton Haters, you may chime in at this point with some of your childish commentary. Will we read -- yet again -- about how soooooo many of you will NEVER vote for HRC. WHO do you think actually cares who you will NOT vote for?
I won't be voting for John Edwards in the general if he wins the D primary -- does anyone care???)

JE supporters: If Edwards doesn't come in first in Iowa, is he done? How about if Edwards only comes in second? Is he done? Third?

If Obama doesn't come in first, second or third in Iowa, is HE done?

Why in the world would anyone think that if Clinton doesn't come in first in Iowa, she's done?
She has $68 million dollars in cash on hand. But for Obama, none of the other candidates have even raised that much, nevermind have it on hand.

Do you really think Hillary Clinton has to win Iowa to be competitive in the primary? The top three will go as far as their funds will take them.
For Edwards, that's to NH.
For Obama and Clinton, that's to Super Tuesday.
The rest need some help in Iowa to go on.
End of story.

Moving the goal posts?

Bee, NH — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:35:34 GMT

Carrie,

I read your endorsement of Hillary Clinton in Ben Smith's blog. Why are you lieing? I'll find it in a minute.

Moving the goal posts?

James, NH — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:37:43 GMT

I have never voted for a Republican, but if Hiliary wins the nomination then I am either not voting at all or voting for the Republican (depending on who wins their nomination)...

Moving the goal posts?

Kaye Miller, Wenatchee WA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:40:30 GMT

I dont think her comments today about calling her campaign and asking if there was a shake up going on, becuz she did not know about a shake up, will lend themselves to further derision about her inability to manage her own campaign and further the questions about her true "experience" and ability to lead. Seems like we may be witnessing an implosion. PS Does anyone think Bill is helping with his mostly self serving comments? My opinion is that he is secretly loving this.

Moving the goal posts?

kenn — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:41:49 GMT

Obama and the republican party can have each other ,work with those A holes who are destoying the constitution.Not a chance and if you think obama has one without hilliarys supporters in the general you are making a mistake.But then again its working just the way the puckers want it to ,why else is Joe scarmymindboro and Karl rove care about the democrats choice except they know they are up for a fight in the general election if hilliarys in, if obama cant handle negetive ads from hill wait to see What the dirty tricks office of the republican party"OPEN since 1968" hits him with drug use remember the I DIDNT INHALE

Moving the goal posts?

Daniel, NY — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:45:30 GMT

A new South Carolina poll has: (1) Clinton holding on to a commanding lead -- though the black vote is now tied, and (2) leading Giuliani in the general election!! Link: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/12/morning-polls-nh-and-fl-shuffle-and.html

Moving the goal posts?

mary Davenport Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:46:41 GMT

Clinton will likely come in third, they can handle that, what really scares them if she comes in fourth. They know it is possible.Third they can explain away, and are already trying to do Obama lives next door, Edwards has lived here since 04 (even though she has been in Iowa far more than Edwards has in 07), but if she comes in a close 4th, how does she explain that?

Moving the goal posts?

Travis, Louisville, Ky — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:51:47 GMT

Her campaign is thoroughly based off of successes that her and Bill obtained while fighting off a Republican led attack group for 8 years. Secondly, experience running the country does not mean that someone won every state in the nomination process, nobody ever has - especially because she was on the campaign trail with Bill in the 90s, and they never went to Iowa. So, yes, she is inexperience in dealing with Iowa's very unique politics. Jerry, I'm sorry, but your fascination and obsession with Hillary Clinton is somewhat unnerving. Remember how Bush's whole rhetoric against Kerry was running for something, not running against someone else; your posts are useless, you have no insight and you have no platforms on anything in politics that you've commented on aside from Hillary and Bills public and private life.

There are tons of candidates, how about deciding what you like in a candidate? Karma's coming around quick, and you're going to have an insane amount of backtracking when your childish posts become the thought opinion of the vast minority of Americans... you know, like people who support Bush.

Oh, wait, you're in that group too. How sickeningly not surprising.

Moving the goal posts?

Jerry Garcia — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:52:25 GMT

CLINTON WILL WIN IOWA, DON'T YOU WORRY YOU LITTLE HEADS ABOUT IT.DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY..hillaryclinton.com The express train is ah movin' "full speed" ahead.

Moving the goal posts?

Clari Fye, Tabla Rasa, AZ — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:57:20 GMT

Meanwhile all of these leftists are supported by Pelosi who says that all Republicans love war. By extension, does her position affirm that all Democrats love terrorists and the murderers of our people?

Moving the goal posts?

Bee, NH — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:59:50 GMT

Moving the goal posts?

MK, Los Angeles, California — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:00:24 GMT

The CNN poll for South Carolina is suspect. Every poll taken there over the past three weeks has shown Senator Obama with a lead among African-American voters, but now CNN says Senator Clinton is tied with him for their vote. This discrepancy is important as African-Americans make up 505 of the voters in the South Carolina Democratic primary. Unless there are more polls coming out confirming this trend among African-American voters, I would suspect that CNN's poll is an outlier.

Moving the goal posts?

MK, Los Angeles, California — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:01:02 GMT

sorry meant to type 50% not 505

Moving the goal posts?

just asking, ny — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:02:27 GMT

"She also went on to say her experience in Iowa is lacking, due to her husband’s decision to never campaign there, while going up against Tom Harkin in 1991 and 1992.
Thought her campaign was all about being experienced.."

That's not quite the type of experience she is - or anyone else should be - touting. As she so very aptly put it: "Since when is running for president qualification to BE president?"

Moving the goal posts?

Tom H. — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:06:03 GMT

Headlines across America January 4, 2008. HILLARY WIN IOWA !

Moving the goal posts?

Steve, Sioux City, IA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:07:06 GMT

Moving the goal posts?

Paul, NY, NY — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:07:07 GMT

Bee, NH....you are becoming unhinged....much like every other Obama zombie you are compelled to attack anyone that even remotely doesn't idolize the Obama facade that is being perpetuated by blindsided shills like yourself. You can attack, name call and regurgitate all of the same old Obama garbage for "change"....can't wait to see your posts after he loses the nomination and you're sitting and your computer typing away your sewage as you eat a nice big piece of humble pie. Any one supporter can find positive things to say about their candidate - it's just that most don't have the time to sit at their computers all day long parsing out their candidates talking points one quote at a time.....tedious, to say the least. GO HILLARY!!!!

Moving the goal posts?

ain't over til it's over, ny — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:09:39 GMT

I'm sure Hillary would like to win Iowa. So would everyone, Republican or Democrat.

But as far as it being over if she doesn't, everyone should remember that Bill Clinton won election and re-election w/o ever setting foot in the state, let alone winning it.

Moving the goal posts?

Kevin, Florida — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:10:01 GMT

Like she has never been to Iowa, she has also never been in an executive position, yet she says she has the most experience to be the POTUS? Get real.

Moving the goal posts?

democraticmoderator, South, GA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:10:25 GMT

Moving the goal posts?

FAIRFAX, VA. — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:11:37 GMT

Yes, moving the goals posts is a tactic that sometimes works for people failing to meet certain expecations; however, in Clinton's case, the kindergarten, drug, and religious attacks on Obama from her people recently only serves to remind us who the Clinton's really are: cold, calculating and out of touch with what many of us want; someone who will try to unite us and move forward away from the Bush-Clinton-Bush years. The time has come to leave the goal posts where they are... She needs to go away - the people from Iowa, N.H., Nevada, and S.C. will see to that...

Moving the goal posts?

HLS — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:12:50 GMT

Hillary's top people in Iowa have said all along that Edwards will win the Iowa caucases. He has had the support in place since the last election. It is surprising that even with all of that in place that she is in a virtual tie with Edwards and Obama. It's interesting that she and her campaign people get vilified for stating the truth. Isn't it true that the Repubs will look into Obama's youthful indescretion? Isn't it true that Hillary started in 3rd place in Iowa. Isn't it true that Edwards has virtually lived in Iowa for 3 years? I understand that people want to play gotcha with every word that the candidates say, but I am frustrated with Dems who have fallen hook, line, and sinker for every Repub talking point or dirty trick. Can't people think for themselves?

Moving the goal posts?

Bee, NH — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:13:16 GMT

Paul, NY, NY

Anything else? Your comment doesn't deserve a good response...lol... I'll let Hillary response before she fire you from the campaign.

Moving the goal posts?

democraticmoderator, South, GA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:15:02 GMT

Chill in the air? Moving the goal posts? Heart of ice? aren't those all part of Hillary's campaign mantra? I have never seen such an evil person portrayed as "the answer" to who should lead our country. Now, how low will she continue to stoop when Obama/Oprah win the early primaries?

Moving the goal posts?

M@ - Chicago — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:16:28 GMT

It's not my fault! Clinton - '08

- Kindergarten comment? Silly. Not me.

- Forwarding BS Obama is a Muslim e-mails? Oh my. How could they? Also, not my doing.

- NH campaign co-chair brings up Obama's admited drug use? I reject that and he stepped down. Not me again.

- Getting your ass handed to you in Iowa and let's hope elsewhere? He's from a neighboring state and that guy there's been chilling in Iowa since 2004. What's a career politician to do?

Anyone see a pattern from the strong leader, change agent, ready on day one, experienced, and now the I'll work for change candidate?

I do and it's a pretty pathetic foundation for leading much of anything, let alone a broken down United States.

Moving the goal posts?

Ron, TX — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:22:59 GMT

At first, everyone thought Obama was the novelty act, a charismatic half-black dude with big ears that didn't stand a chance against "the CLINTON MACHINE." Well now, the screws of the Clinton machine appear to be coming loose. Now, it appears Hillary Clinton is the novelty act- a President's power-hungry wife who thought she owned America.

Moving the goal posts?

HMT-MI — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:26:14 GMT

Is ophra running?If anyone has brought racism into this election it is Ophra shame on her----

Moving the goal posts?

Educated AND Informed, NY, NY — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:26:36 GMT

Carrie, Eastern Iowa.....AWESOME BLOG!!! Finally someone tells that bitter old "Bee, NH" how it really is. She's under some delusion that this is her personal pro-Obama/anti-Hillary blog. And boy does she like to attack when conventional wisdom differs from her extremely narrow viewpoint. I guess that's what happens when you have nothing to do all day but fret about supporting a losing candidate. But really, to brand another person as a liar - totally unsubstantiated - now Bee, where are your politics of hope? Oh, and btw Bee you live in NH so in spite of all your machinations, guess what your opinion is as irrelevant in Iowa as it is on this site.
CLINTON/BAYH '08

Moving the goal posts?

Sam, Delano CA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:28:14 GMT

A product of two
from two worlds apart
marked by differences
Right from the start

An absence of one
left me lost trying to find
what was lost in my life and
what was lost in my mind

A lifetime of trying
to help others in need
Sacrifice what I wanted
because of a creed

On the Southside
Is where I would see
many lost youth
that once looked like me

A vow that day
to do all I can
to help them become
a Hardworking man

Worked harder than ever
for all beyond my reach
My life was too change
Because of a speech

Now, A wonderful woman
and two beautiful daughters
Fired me up
With the dreams of my father.

Obama 2008

Moving the goal posts?

Kaye Miller, WA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:31:08 GMT

That cackle from the "debate" yesterday is going to be a huge detriment to HIllary. It showed a little more of her icy demeanor than what she has been wanting to show.

Moving the goal posts?

John Doe, The Peanut Gallery — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:33:05 GMT

"I'm sorry, are you referring to me? Who is Ben, exactly? I have stated on this blog that I intend to caucus for Biden.
Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 12:20 PM)"

Just out of curiosity, who will be your second choice if Biden doesn't make the 15% cut off?

Moving the goal posts?

grace — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:33:06 GMT

Thanks for finding it Bee.....

Carrie is a sockpuppet...thanks for catching her in the lie

Moving the goal posts?

Bill C. — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:35:08 GMT

Just lookie here..hillaryclinton.com

Moving the goal posts?

Katy, Cedar Rapids — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:40:43 GMT

Poor, poor Hillary. Of course having been First Lady for eight years didnt give her advantage? Of course, in Iowa, we're just dumb hicks who never heard of her, so she's had to work extra hard. Poor, poor Hillary. And this woman is supposed to be smart? I've never seen a campaign that was so dumb, and so low.

Moving the goal posts?

Mildred Miners, Cedar Rapids, Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:43:37 GMT

WE LOVE HILLARY--- SHE'S #1 !! hillaryclinton.com

Moving the goal posts?

seiowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:44:32 GMT

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2007/12/14/news/latest_news/6ed995c7ca21cbe5862573b1005dc02e.txt

How do you like dem apples? Obama up by 9 in Iowa.

Moving the goal posts?

Sara, Cedar Rapids, Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:44:53 GMT

Carrie,

I told you i'll find your post on politico.com. Here is what you said.

I decided today that I will caucus and it will be for Hillary. This will be my first caucus. She did a great job today. Obama was again all talk. Edwards is nice if I wanted a lawyer. He's just too smooth.

Posted By: Carrie, Ames IA | December 13, 2007 at

Let me defend Carrie. Carrie is not an unusual name I know several who live in Cedar Rapids where I live, I'm sure Ames has many Carrie's as well. The Carrie here signs as: "Carrie Eastern Iowa." Ames is not in Eastern Iowa. It is in Central Iowa, it is over 100 miles west of where in Eastern Iowa "Carrie Eastern Iowa" has said she lives.

Is it possible they are the same person? Of course, but if she wanted to hide her identity don't you think she'd give different first names, not different locations within Iowa? Also Carrie Eastern Iowa has said she's a University of Iowa grad, a UI graduate wouldn't use Ames (the home of ISU) as a fake location.

In any event both Carrie from Ames and Carrie Eastern Iowa aren't Obama fans.

Moving the goal posts?

Chelse — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:45:05 GMT

My mom is the best ! hillaryclinton.com

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Arlington, VA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:54:19 GMT

Barack Obama

"Well, Hillary, I'm looking forward to you advising me, as well."

Again, as you can read Mr. Obama can’t stand on his own merits, he needs to count on other people’s knowledge (as Hillary) to hold his hand.

If Hillary is so, back to the 90s, why event think that she would make a great adviser?

I can bet, that you will not read from any of the other candidates; saying that they will consult Mr. Obama for his experience on any subject.

A vote for Mr. Obama will only take us back to where we are now (Remember the Uniter (Mr. Bush). This is the same situation with Mr. Obama. Someone else will be running the country, and he will be making excuses for them (Cousin, Mr. Cheney).

Mr. Obama thinks that he will get to the White House, and have the time to sit around singing kumbaya and spend a few years learning to make hard decisions.

Mr. Obama is a Charismatic Leader (Those who seem to be "Natural Leaders" and effectively inspire groups without really knowing the strategies or tactics used).

As for Mr. Edwards, after all his personal attacks on Mrs. Clinton; he is a Follower (May apply to people who attach themselves either to the person or beliefs of another). He was not running with the populist message the last election (Today the term "populism" is often used both by journalists and politicians as a vague, frequently pejorative description, whether to describe vote-grabbing measures and rhetoric or in connection with new right-wing nationalist movements as well as many left-wing socialist movements).

Mrs. Clinton has what I call Military leadership (The process of influencing others to accomplish the mission by providing purpose, direction, and motivation).

Mrs. Clinton has all the experience and expertise required to hit the ground running. She will be able to listen to her advisers and make the best decisions for the USA. She has the foundation to know if the staff is only telling her what they think she wants to hear. And what you erroneously call mean, I call being assertive.

I don’t know how you will vote, but think about the world that we live in. This is really a global community, and Mrs. Clinton has the INTERNAL FORTITUDE to reach across party lines, across communities, across the world and work hard to get things done for all humanity.

My vote will be counted for Mrs. Clinton.

Moving the goal posts?

POLSTER.COMM — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:56:14 GMT

NEW POLL JUST IN... RICHARDSON AHEAD IN IOWA BY 66 POINTS !

Moving the goal posts?

MK, Los Angeles, California — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:58:33 GMT

We're re-writing history here.
Edwards led Iowa for months. Clinton started in third place.

As Paul Harvey once said, "Now for the rest of the story." You are right that up to summer Edwards held a lead in Iowa anywhere up to eight points, but he then started sinking. Clinton then opened up a lead of up to 11 points in the fall. Now she is headed down, perhaps even to third or fourth place. Tell me how this does not show that Clinton did not compete well in Iowa despite her being from NY and not being there for four years straight? She did well up into fall, but then the wheels came off her campaign.

Moving the goal posts?

Dawn, somewhere in Kansas — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:01:19 GMT

Citizen J, just read your posting of 11:48 as I was away from my computer. Here's four senators from neighboring states: Hagel and Nelson from Nebraska and Bond and McCaskill.

Moving the goal posts?

Kaye Miller, WA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:05:42 GMT

Hillary looked churlish and deflated after Obamas quick witted response to her cackle and harsh comment

Moving the goal posts?

Freeman Female, Dallas, TX — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:09:37 GMT

Interesting all the Clinton advisors left Hillary and joined Obama. That is what I found to be striking in the question in itself. If Hillary was so great in the past then why did these advisors not want to share their future with her?

You can't say it is negative campaign against Clinton because that has not come out on the Obama advisors. All the Clinton people can point to is the one word disingenuous that was ever used to directly to Clinton.

While in Clinton's campaign we have had FOUR personal attacks in one week with all people working for the Clinton campaign.

Me thinks desperation.

Name recognition? Clinton as first lady is more well known than a state senator or US senator from a neighboring state.

Bill Clinton never campaigned there? Well he was the President for eight years so that can not be a valid reason either.

She has been negative for a week and that has not worked so she gave up. I think now she is just trying to prepare the masses for her not to win and maybe not even to come close to winning.

P.S. Van is still missing?
Bee is an ardent supporter but I see she got Carrie's goat today. Carrie was always telling posters to remain positive but she lost her cool today.

Moving the goal posts?

Gloria, NYC, NY — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:10:17 GMT

HRC = Hopless Repulsive Coward

HRC is either a liar or a clueless dirty woman. Either way, I would be hard press to see how someone who cannot even manage her campaign pretend to be able to govern a country.

I am a woman and guess what? I will not vote for this woman...Mrs. Clinton. As a prideless and low-self esteem woman, she is a disgrace for our gender.

GO Biden, Edwards, Obama, Richardson, and Dodd!!!

Moving the goal posts?

Eliot, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:11:44 GMT

Hillary can lose Iowa and lose NH perhaps even SC...But sorry Obama/Edwards supports her lead nationally as well as in places like FL, NJ, CA, MN will propel her to victory on 2/5/08.

Moving the goal posts?

Kevin, Houston, Texas — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:12:34 GMT

Dawn from somewhere in Kansas. Anyone can name U.S. senators from neighboring states. I believe Citizen J was looking for someone to name 4 STATE senators.

Moving the goal posts?

Paul, NY, NY — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:13:04 GMT

Bee, NH

Yes, after reading your posts, I should have realized it was over your head. Glad to see that you were able to "track down" that elusive Carrie from Iowa.....with such an uncommon name, it MUST have been her. Talk about losing it.....

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:13:15 GMT

Um, Bee? I have never lived in Ames. Ames is not even in Eastern Iowa. It's in CENTRAL Iowa. Try looking on Mapquest.

I'll be expecting a nice apology from you now, if YOU have any integrity.

Moving the goal posts?

Patrick Huntington NY — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:14:21 GMT

People who refer to Hillary's laugh as a cackle are sexist neanderthals! It's a laugh! Better than Obama's snorting laughs, probably from all those years of doing cocaine.

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:21:55 GMT

Just out of curiosity, who will be your second choice if Biden doesn't make the 15% cut off?
John Doe, The Peanut Gallery (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 1:33 PM)

I hate it when people ask me that, because I honestly don't know. I've always said that I think any of the Democratic candidates would do a good job in the WH. I think Biden will do the best job. I like Hillary because she is smart and tough, but I have never been convinced that her being president is the right position for her. I don't think Obama is as prepared for the job as Edwards would be. I like Dodd, but I have never really considered him - and if Biden doesn't make the 15% I doubt Dodd will. Richardson has the credentials as well but for some reason he makes me kind of nervous.

So to answer your question, I have no idea! I'm really pulling for Biden, and if he doesn't get it, then I'm not sure it makes that much of a difference for me. It's hard to answer that also because I don't know who my choices will be. I imagine there are some areas in Cedar Rapids that are more pro-Hillary and some that are more pro-Obama and some that are pro-Edwards and so on. I haven't seen a lot of signs in my area so I'm not sure if there is a trend in my neighborhood or not.

Sorry for giving you such a non-answer!

Moving the goal posts?

Kaye Miller, WA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:26:22 GMT

She sounded like she was laying an egg, hence the cackle. The cackle quickly stopped when Obama delivered a nonsnorting response. She looked mighty deflated. Mentioning teenage drug use is surely a better sign of someones status of evolution (or presence of hillary campaign posters)

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:26:42 GMT

Thanks to those who have defended me. I didn't realize I was the only Carrie in the state. I also didn't realize I was from Ames. Go figure. :)

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:27:54 GMT

P.S. Van is still missing?
Bee is an ardent supporter but I see she got Carrie's goat today. Carrie was always telling posters to remain positive but she lost her cool today.
Freeman Female, Dallas, TX (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 2:09 PM)

Being accused of lying tends to piss me off. Honest people tend to not like being accused of being dishonest.

Moving the goal posts?

CintiKid — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:33:15 GMT

so is she blaming Bill? Ya gotta LOVE it !

Moving the goal posts?

M@ - Chicago — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:33:15 GMT

Arlington, VA
Obama was making what an two-year-old would call a funny. He was not being serious. Although, I am sure he would look to her for advice if he were looking to run his campaign into the ground.

Also, your reference to Mrs. Clinton's "Military leadership" is interesting. It looks remarkably similar to that of famous chicken hawks George W.Bush and Dick Cheney. All three got our country into quite the mess in Iraq.

Moving the goal posts?

c gibson — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:40:47 GMT

she starts off with 99% name id, the most popular dem. as her husband, vilsack and the whole establishment and we are supposed to feel like she is disadvantaged in iowa? maybe because she took it for granted??

Moving the goal posts?

Melanie, Portland, Oregon — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:41:01 GMT

If the Clinton camp watched the "focus groups" of undecided Democratic Iowa voters questioned yesterday after the debate on both CNN and Fox they probably didn't sleep too well last night. Hillary came in third in both groups! Also, when asked if they thought this latest smear against Obama was dirty politics and a real turn-off, every hand went up in the group asked. Not surprisingly, therefore, I later heard a reporter who had talked to the campaign say that the Clinton group was now saying that Feb. 5 was the all-important day! Isn't that the Giuliani theory that has been so roundly ridiculed by most pundits? The Clinton campaign must be getting very dizzy from all of this spinning! Obama is going to win this!

Moving the goal posts?

Kaye Miller, WA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:41:13 GMT

OK Carrie, your point is proven and you seem vindicated. Can you guys get off your personal, petty blog war now? That said, I really love Joe Biden and wish he was doing better in the campaign. He seems very intelligent and has excellent experience. Why do you think he is doing so poorly?

Moving the goal posts?

Bee — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:41:27 GMT

.S. Van is still missing?
Bee is an ardent supporter but I see she got Carrie's goat today. Carrie was always telling posters to remain positive but she lost her cool today.
Freeman Female, Dallas, TX (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 2:09 PM)

Being accused of lying tends to piss me off. Honest people tend to not like being accused of being dishonest.

--------------------------------------------------

Are you still a Biden supporter or did you switch your allegiance to Hillary?

Moving the goal posts?

Blue state baby — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:42:14 GMT

I think Dawn Somewhere in Kansas anwsered correctly. I understood the question as she did.

Moving the goal posts?

Joe — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:47:29 GMT

Huckabee, Obama lead in Lee presidential poll
11:15 PM
By Ed Tibbetts
QUAD-CITY TIMES

Presidential candidates Barack Obama and Mike Huckabee hold 9-point leads in Iowa with less than three weeks to go before the Jan. 3 caucuses, according to a new poll conducted for Lee Enterprises newspapers.

The poll, conducted with 500 likely caucus-goers from Dec. 10 through Dec. 13, said Obama, a senator from Illinois, led in the Democratic race with 33 percent, followed by Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, who had 24 percent each.

Moving the goal posts?

Charles T. — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:49:18 GMT

Carrie, dont't come here often, but after reading through all of these postings, did anyone ever tell you that you are a little full of yourself? If not, let me be the first.

Moving the goal posts?

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:49:20 GMT

FF modus is to accuse everyone of lying, being a paid operative, or posting under multiple screen names. Bee...what can I say, it's Bee. Don't pay any attention to it, or them, Carrie, as it really isn't worth the trouble...

Van

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:57:06 GMT

Kaye:

I'll pretend you didn't insult me and answer your question. :)

Money. He hasn't had the money to raise his name recognition the way other candidates have. Edwards is well known from the 2004 election, Hillary is - well, Hillary. Obama made a big splash at the 2004 convention and has been touted as being the future of the party and all of that.

Biden, on the other hand, is a long-time Senator who has been calmly doing his job for decades. He doesn't go after the splashy headlines. He does his job, and does it well. Unfortunately, hard work in politics is rewarded less than your connections and your "star" quality.

I think if all the candidates had the same amount of money, and the same access to the media, there would be no chance of anyone beating him.

Moving the goal posts?

Elizabeth, Bethesda, MD — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:58:14 GMT

Hillary's campaign is sinking, sinking, sinking. My son, who is doing graduate level work in political science, called and told me one of his professors said that this campaign being run by the Clintons will - for this generation - change the adjective for dirty tricks from the old (my generation!) "Nixonian" to "Clintonian!" Quite a statement - and quite true. It is absolutely disgraceful and disgusting what people like Mark Penn and the man in NH, etc. are saying and doing. Obama does not deserve this. Shame on the Clinton organization.

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:59:03 GMT

Carrie, dont't come here often, but after reading through all of these postings, did anyone ever tell you that you are a little full of yourself? If not, let me be the first.
Charles T. (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 2:49 PM)

I happen to think I am a great person and I make no apologies about that. If you want to label that as me being full of myself, so be it. It's certainly not going to keep me up crying at night.

Moving the goal posts?

irv4oh, Columbus, Ohio — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:01:02 GMT

Even with Edwards' long campaigning and coverage of Obama from neighboring Illinois, Clinton has had more exposure than either of them in Iowa. Iowans have heard of Hillary Clinton way before Edwards and Obama, but she hasn't been able to turn recognition of her into support-- that is her failure as a candidate. She is, of all the candidates, the least experienced in contested primaries, and this is affecting her "electability," despite her longstanding fame.

Moving the goal posts?

H.C. — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:07:01 GMT

####New Poll Just Out #### Obama leads by 1.% in Guam

Moving the goal posts?

B.C. — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:08:50 GMT

Just released new Hawaii poll Hillary leads.

Moving the goal posts?

John Doe, The Peanut Gallery — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:17:11 GMT

"Sorry for giving you such a non-answer!
Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 2:21 PM)"

No worries. Personally, I wish we lived in a society where folks like Biden, Dodd, and Richardson were able to run more effective campaigns than they are. They definately have more fleshed out positions on things I care about and Dodd's efforts against the FISA bill and his committmett to the constitution have really given hope that there are still some sane people in government.

But the money machine politics and the media spin that is so crucial blocks alot of candidates. I geuss the real upshot is that even if candidates like Biden can't get the nomination, any of the others will be able to win nationally. The real trick will come in making sure to elect more and better Democrats to Congress to ensure that whoever wins the nomination will either have the clout necessary to get things done or will be forced to adopt a better agenda.

I just live in a west coast state that isn't California, and therefore have little to no say in the nominating process, so I like to hear the opinions of people who do. =)

Moving the goal posts?

CitizenJ — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:17:50 GMT

Carrie,

I hear you've been deceiving people by posting here like you were from Eastern Iowa, and on other sites as Carrie from Ames, Iowa.

Tsk, tsk.

:)

Moving the goal posts?

Kaye Miller, WA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:18:33 GMT

Thanks for the response Carrie, not intending to insult, but truely these blog battles do get old. I do understand a person wanting to stick up for themselves, and I did say I felt you were vindicated. Interesting view of Biden's campaign, but I am not sure money is the only problem - look how well Huckabee is doing with very little money and very little name recognition for that matter. Not a Huck supporter, just pointing out that money isnt always the big answer. My opinion is that as smart and experienced as Biden is, his personality simply does not translate into a voter friendly face. I have seen his face at a lot of hearings - which is what experienced senators do - but his demanding cross examination may also be in voters minds, and they cannot imagine that scrutinous face in the White House - just some thots. Plz dont read negativity, becuz I really do admire him greatly.

Moving the goal posts?

Sierra, SF — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:22:24 GMT

'...Thanks for finding it Bee.....

Carrie is a sockpuppet...thanks for catching her in the lie grace...'

EXACTLY.......
Carrie is transparent as water
Never misses a chance to defend Clinton
Sorry, Carrie the game is up !!
You are a (Not so) secret Clintonista
Look at you defending Hillary's cocaine smears...

Sorry, live in your dream world.....
It's falling apart, Carrie
Just like Hillary's....

Carrie, a you a PAID blogger for Hillary ?
I already know van is....
ARE YOU A PAID BLOGGER FOR HILLARY ?

Sierra, SF

Moving the goal posts?

Sierra, SF — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:31:10 GMT

vanreuter, NY NY: '...FF modus is to accuse everyone of lying, being a paid operative, or posting under multiple screen names. Bee...what can I say, it's Bee. Don't pay any attention to it, or them, Carrie, as it really isn't worth the trouble...'

Sorry van !
You are a Clinton apparatchik !!
You are a paid blogger !!
That's NO SURPRISE

Why deny it, van ?
Is it just the 'Clinton campaign mystique' to be crooked ? to lie ?

You do post under multiple names, van
How about Susan, miami ? 'we love you, van' ?

Give it up, van....
Your candidate is floundering
the campaign is in it's 'death throes'.....
You're resorting to smears...
You've 'given up' Iowa....

have a nice day

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, dishonest, unethical, divisive

Van

Moving the goal posts?

FREEMAN FEMALE, Dallas, TX — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:34:55 GMT

No, VAN, your modus is to accuse everyone of posting under multiple names and call them a liar and show proof.

You called me Jerry. I am not.
You said I post under multiple names. I do not.
You said I was a liar. I am not.

I have said you will stop posting "actual" numbers when Hillary starts to lose.

YOU HAVE and only post links and not numbers like you did in the beginning.

I have said you are an operative (paid or not) of the Hillary campaign.

YOU HAVE NOT DENIED THAT.

I have said you will disappear when the votes are cast AND Hillary loses.

AND YOU WILL DISAPPEAR IN A FEW MORE WEEKS.....

I would love to contine you with you all but I am going to my company Christmas party. God Bless and Have a Great Friday.

Moving the goal posts?

Dante — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:38:27 GMT

Your killing me here, for all those who talk about things to overcome with Republicans: Look here, i would rather bet my money on Obama:

STUART TAYLOR JR, NATIONAL JOURNAL - Let's take a trip down memory lane -- from the tawdriness of the 1992 presidential campaign through the mendacity of the ensuing years -- to revisit a sampling of why so many of us came to think that Hillary's first instinct when in an embarrassing spot is to lie.

Gennifer and Monica: Former lounge singer Gennifer Flowers surfaced in early 1992 with claims -- corroborated by tapes of phone calls -- that she had had a long affair with then-Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton, who had arranged a state job for her. Bill Clinton told the media, falsely, that the woman's "story is untrue."

Although well aware of her husband's philandering history, Hillary backed his squishy denials, famously asserting on "60 Minutes" that she was not "some little woman standing by her man like Tammy Wynette." More deceptively, she suggested to ABC's Sam Donaldson that Bill's contacts with Flowers were just an example of how he loved to "help people who are in trouble" and "listen to their problems."

"Hillary's words uncannily foreshadowed her insistence six years later to ... a White House aide that Bill had 'ministered' to [Monica] Lewinsky because she was a troubled young woman," Sally Bedell Smith writes in her fine new book about the Clintons, For Love of Politics. Hillary has continued to insist that she believed what she said about Lewinsky. But friends and former aides have told Smith and others that she knew her husband was lying all along.

Travelgate: The first Clinton scandal after Bill became president started in May 1993, when Chief of Staff Mack McLarty fired the seven employees in the White House office that arranges travel for the press corps. The White House cited gross financial mismanagement. (The charge was never substantiated.) The sudden firings created a media uproar, especially when the dismissed employees were quickly replaced by friends and relatives of the Clintons.

Hillary later told the General Accounting Office, in a document prepared by her attorney, that she had no role in the decision to fire the employees, did not know the "origin of the decision," and "did not direct that any action be taken by anyone" other than keeping her informed.

But her statements were contradicted by evidence, including a long-concealed memo to McLarty and a written chronology prepared by White House aide David Watkins that came to light years later. Hillary, Watkins wrote, had said that "we need those people out and we need our people in" and had made it clear that "there would be hell to pay" unless she got "immediate action." Another aide wrote that Hillary intimate Susan Thomases had said, "Hillary wants these people fired."

While saying that no provable crime had been committed, Robert Ray, who had succeeded Kenneth Starr as independent counsel, reported in October 2000 that Hillary's statements had been "factually false" and that there was "overwhelming evidence that she in fact did have a role in the decision to fire the employees."

Cattle futures: The New York Times revealed in March 1994 that in 1978, just before her husband became governor, Hillary had made a $100,000 profit on a $1,000 investment in highly speculative cattle-futures contracts in only nine months. Hillary's first explanation (through aides) of this extraordinary windfall was that she had made the investment after "reading The Wall Street Journal" and placed all the trades herself after seeking advice from "numerous people." It was so preposterous that she soon had to abandon it. Eventually, she had to admit that longtime Clinton friend James Blair had executed 30 of her 32 trades directly with an Arkansas broker.

In an April 1994 press conference, Hillary denied knowing of "any favorable treatment" by Blair. But the astronomical odds against any financial novice making a 10,000 percent profit without the game being rigged led many to believe that Blair, the outside counsel to Arkansas-based poultry giant Tyson Foods, must have put only profitable trades in Hillary's account and absorbed her losses. The heavily regulated Tyson needed friends in high places, and Bill Clinton helped it pass a 1983 state law raising weight limits on chicken trucks.

Removal of Vince Foster documents: During the same press conference, Hillary was asked why her then-chief of staff, Maggie Williams, had been involved in removing documents from the office of Deputy White House Counsel Vince Foster after his suicide. Foster had been a partner of Hillary's at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, Ark. "I don't know that she did remove any documents," Hillary said. But it was reported three months later that Hillary had instructed Williams to remove the Foster documents to the White House residence. Then they were turned over to Clinton attorney Bob Barnett.

Castle Grande: In the summer of 1995, the Resolution Trust Corp. reported that Hillary had been one of 11 Rose Law Firm lawyers who had done work in the mid-1980s on an Arkansas real estate development, widely known as Castle Grande, promoted by James McDougal and Seth Ward. McDougal headed a troubled thrift, Madison Guaranty Savings & Loan, and had given Hillary legal business as a favor to Bill. McDougal and his wife, Susan, were the Clintons' partners in their Whitewater real estate investment. Ward was father-in-law to Webb Hubbell, another former Rose Law Firm partner, who was briefly Clinton's associate attorney general in 1993. Later, Hubbell went to prison for fraud, as did James McDougal.

Castle Grande was a sewer of sham transactions, some used to funnel cash into Madison Guaranty. Castle Grande's ultimate collapse contributed to that of the thrift, which cost taxpayers millions. Hillary told federal investigators that she knew nothing about Castle Grande. When it turned out that more than 30 of her 60 hours of legal work for Madison Guaranty involved Castle Grande, she said she had known the project under a different name. A 1996 Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. report said that she had drafted documents that Castle Grande used to "deceive federal bank examiners."

Prosecutors later came to believe that Hillary had padded her bills; she "wasn't guilty of [knowingly] facilitating nefarious transactions -- she was guilty of doing less work than she took credit for," Jeff Gerth and Don Van Natta Jr. explain in their 2007 biography, Her Way. Hillary herself never took refuge in this explanation.

Billing records: Hillary's billing records for Castle Grande were in a 116-page, 5-inch-thick computer printout that came to light under mysterious circumstances on January 4, 1996 -- 19 months after Starr's investigators had subpoenaed it and amid prosecutorial pressure on Clinton aides who had been strikingly forgetful. For most of that time, Hillary claimed that the billing records had vanished. But a longtime Hillary assistant named Carolyn Huber later admitted coming across the printout in August 1995 on a table in a storage area next to Hillary's office; Huber said she had put it into a box in her own office, without realizing for five more months that these were the subpoenaed billing records.

This implausible tale, on top of other deceptions, prompted New York Times columnist William Safire to write on January 8, 1996, that "our first lady ... is a congenital liar."

The next day, the White House press secretary said that the president wanted to punch Safire in the nose for insulting his wife. Five days later, the president invited Monica Lewinsky to the Oval Office for what turned out to be one of their 10 oral-sex sessions. Two years and 13 days after that, Hillary was on the "Today" show suggesting that her husband's Lewinsky affair was a lie concocted by "this vast right-wing conspiracy."

http://nationaljournal.com/taylor.htm

Moving the goal posts?

Dante — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:38:37 GMT

Moving the goal posts?

Kaye Miller, WA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:40:54 GMT

Did not intend to insult Carrie, so plz dont be insulted!!! Its just that these personal blog battles get rather tiresome - I do see that you needed to defend yourself and thats why I said you seemed vindicated - K?
Anyway back to the Biden topic, the money/name recognition rationale does not gibe with what we see happening with the Huckabee campaign. I am not his supporter, but he does seem to have come out of nowhere. My feeling with Biden is that he may be more famous for all the Senate hearings he has been on, where he comes across as rightfully stern and demanding. I wonder if too many voters have those same images in their heads to seriously consider making him president - just a thot.

Moving the goal posts?

Dante — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:57:56 GMT

LINCOLN BEDROOM

FOX NEWS, 2000 - Hillary Rodham Clinton denied allegations that she or her fund-raisers offered overnight stays in the Lincoln Bedroom and Camp David to supporters of her Senate campaign. "We have friends and supporters come and spend time with us and spend the night with us that we are getting to know and who like spending time with us," Clinton said when questioned at a campaign stop at a western New York diner. "I don't see what's news about that." . . . White House staffers said that since the summer of 1999 there have been at least 26 instances in which people, mainly couples, were overnight guests after donating to the first lady's campaign or promising to do so. . . "The Lincoln Bedroom was never sold," Clinton said in 1997, when the White House released a list of 938 guests who had spent the night at the executive mansion up to that point in the Clinton presidency. The list included the names of political supporters, as well as entertainment luminaries and old Clinton friends

CASTLE GRANDE

1999 Mrs. Clinton is mentioned 36 times in the fraud indictment against Webster Hubbell. Writes the AP's Peter Yost: "Starr alleges Hubbell concealed his own and Mrs. Clinton's work during the 1980s on a failed Arkansas land deal, known as Castle Grande, that federal regulators say was riddled with 'insider dealing, fictitious sales and land flips.'" Yost notes the criminal contempt trial of Susan McDougal: "The indictment against Mrs. McDougal details a series of grand jury questions about Mrs. Clinton and Castle Grande that Mrs. McDougal refused to answer." The Castle Grande project involved a baroque set of deals aimed at least in part in shoring up the McDougal's failing savings and loan.

Not until the immaculate reconception of Mrs. Clinton's billing records in 1996 did her extensive role in the matter come to light. Billing records documenting HRC's work on the Castle Grande development scam were discovered in the family quarters of the White House. HRC said she has no idea how they got there.

She also claimed that she could not remember her work on the project nor 15 conversations with Hubbell's wheeler-dealer father-in-law, Seth Ward. In the end, Castle Grande cost the S&L nearly $4 million in unpaid principal and interest.

Moving the goal posts?

CitizenJ — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:58:48 GMT

What is with all this apologizing today? I am at First Read aren't I? I'm assuming it is attributable to the holiday spirit.

p.s. Anyone else looking forward to being stuck in the snow this weekend? Oh well, it's better than an inch of ice.

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:00:20 GMT

Carrie,

I hear you've been deceiving people by posting here like you were from Eastern Iowa, and on other sites as Carrie from Ames, Iowa.

Tsk, tsk.

:)
CitizenJ (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 3:17 PM)

Shhh...don't tell anyone. I think I would lose my almuni status at the University of Iowa if I claimed Ames as my home.

Moving the goal posts?

Ava — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:10:49 GMT

Yet another reason why she shouldn't be president. Mrs. 35 years of experience. If she has collected $80 million and can't hire people who know how to caucus in Iowa, she most certainly should not be trusted with running this country. What she's saying is that if my husband hasn't done it first, then I'm not independent or smart enough to figure it out for myself.

You don't hear this crap coming from Barack. This is his first time caucusing in Iowa and he's got a great ground team. All the other candidates live in other states as well. She's pathetic.

Moving the goal posts?

Paul, NY, NY — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:11:53 GMT

Sierra, SF

Why so bitter? Your personal diatribes rival only those of Bee, N.H. Why do you find it so difficult to try and state your opinion in a manner in which you are not accusing/attacking/baiting anyone and everyone that dissents from your anti-Clinton fervor. I - like most Democrats - have an excitement about this field unseen in decades and yet you continually go and piss on anyone's parade that dares to deviate from the Sierra Vision.
Get over yourself - your dissertations are mean-spirited at best. The fact that they are woefully inaccurate and tedious is a sidenote.
Unless you plan on flying from SF to IA on Jan. 3 to caucus - lighten up. But I do believe that you are entitled to their own opinion...no matter how distorted it may be. GO HILLARY '08!

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:16:15 GMT

Kaye:

I think the reason a lot of people started looking to Huckabee is because he started doing so well in Iowa, and that has lifted him across the board. The reason he does well in Iowa is because Iowans are not impressed by Rudy, who is not a conservative, and not all that impressed by Romney, who is kind of smarmy (in my opinion). Huckabee at least seems to represent the more typical conservative.

I think money and press go hand in hand to some extent - if you have the money, you will get the press. It's a lot harder to convince the press to follow you around if you don't have the big bucks.

Basically, this is how I see it...now that I have probably totally confused you. The candidates with the high expectations (of winning) get the money. Because they get the money, they are perceived as being winners. This is rather circular reasoning but I think it is pretty accurate. At any rate, the press follows those who have raised money because they are the ones that are expected to do well.

At the root of it all - money and name recognition. Two things, if you don't have them, can make your job very difficult.

Moving the goal posts?

Grammer Hammer — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:16:19 GMT

Bee- It is "lose" not "loose".

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Sean — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:19:06 GMT

Paul, NY, NY: I am with you. She is way unhinged. I'm wondering the age - maybe 16 (that is what it appears to be)

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Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:19:22 GMT

Sierra:

Out of curiosity, which campaign pays you to bash Hillary every chance you get? I mean, if I am paid and Van is paid, certainly someone who spends every single post he writes attacking Hillary MUST be paid.

It's the only logical conclusion under your reasoning.

Moving the goal posts?

Kaye Miller, WA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:24:49 GMT

Not confused at all Carrie, but the bigger question would be what is the reason Biden was unable to raise money? What is the reason for his lack of support? I think I may be on to something. Plz do not think I am bashing him, it does seem unfortunate that by doing his public service job so well, there may be a more negative impression of him. I also like Chris Dodd and think it is unfortunate he is not doing better in his campaign as well.

Moving the goal posts?

Sean — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:04:42 GMT

Carrie-I agree with you. I'll promote Hillary - but won't bash Obama (I don't need to), but find the hate these people speak of her is disgusting. And they have the nerve to claim they want to run a different kind of campaign and how bad Hillary is becuse she is slinging mud. What are they doing?

Moving the goal posts?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:07:37 GMT

Kaye:

I think its pretty simple - no one expected him to do well in the field that is currently running. First, you have Hillary and the Clinton Machine. Then you have Edwards, the VP nominee from last time around and someone who has spent an enormous amount of time campaigning ever since then. You also have Obama, who wowed everyone with his speech at the 2004 convention.

It's a very crowded field, and the expectations for the three front-runners were high from the beginning. The money followed those expectations.

Moving the goal posts?

Harmony — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:26:01 GMT

She's making excuses for yet another failure.

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ace p washington, d.c. — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:33:25 GMT

i am not a hillary supporter. i supported bill in both elections though. i left the door open for her but the last two weeks campaign strategy turned me off.

anyway, for anybody to think that a loss in iowa will end the clinton machine is fooling themself. it is the best campaign machine in modern day. wether it stays that way time will tell.

i would never claim victory over the clintons until much later. she could lose iowa and n.h. and still be in this thing. they are truly strong. i have seen that machine in action and it is formidable.

don't ever underestimate the skills of big bill. if rumors are true and he becomes hands on this will be a long, long race.

just my opinion not that it means much.

Moving the goal posts?

ace p washington, d.c. — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:39:44 GMT

it amazes me that someone would say that another person excersizing their constitutional right to support and vote for who they want is called names or accused of this ugly stuff.

if anyone here is lucky enough to see a country that you are not free to say, support and vote you wouldn't act like this about oppositional choice.

quad city polls of iowa just announced that obama up in iowa by 9 points. 12/14/07 at 5:36 pm.

Moving the goal posts?

Dot, Illinois — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:54:39 GMT

Kaye Miller, WA

I apologize if I am intruding, but I would like to comment on your post about Senator Biden.I think one of his problems was and may still be, name recognition. Senators Clinton and Obama (by nature of his speech at Dem Convention) had almost star status from the beginning. Because they were both "firsts" first woman, first African American to run for President they were viewed as more interesting by the media. They made a better story than a 30 veteran of the Senate. I think we have seen that media coverage is crucial in this primary election, and the media attention has largely been focused on Senators Clinton and Obama, who have managed by their verbal sparring to keept the attention right there.

The money issue confounds me too, but there again, I think people wanted to give to a "first" candidate, wanting to be a part of a history making event. Now that he has done so well in the debates, however, I can't understand why he isn't gaining more support. To my mind he is the best candidate running.

Moving the goal posts?

John M., San Diego, CA — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 23:30:08 GMT

Rose, would you please share where you got your numbers from? Regarding race, what I see is Obama ahead in lily-white IA and within a couple of points in NH. I see him leading every republican challenger in head-to-head polls. And the "15% lie," where whites change their minds about voting for black candidates in the booth, was nowhere in evidence in 2006 - in the TN senate race, the MD senate race, or the MA governor's race.

Moving the goal posts?

Kaye Miller, WA — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:19:58 GMT

Dot, not an intrusion at all. I think you raise some very valid points, and ones that had not occured to me. For me, while I have always admired Joe Biden greatly, and was happy to see him announce his candidacy, I, from day one have been a Obama supporter. I guess I would have to say the number one reason is because of his message of inspiration. Joe seems more down to earth for sure, and if Obama was not running, Joe Biden would definitely be my first choice, especially over Hillary and Richardson

Moving the goal posts?

Simon, IA — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:54:57 GMT

I'm from Iowa and the reasons she's not doing (comparatively) well here are the same reasons she might not be doing well in other places: she's seen as being disingenuous and opportunistic, as well as being a Washington insider, among many other reasons. For her to blame anything else is flat-out wrong.
Steve, Sioux City, IA (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 1:07 PM)

Steve, I can understand what you are saying. But my question is why? Based on the lies or rumors which has been spread by media?

Obama had said he wont stand for President just 2 yrs back and then he jumped in now. Is that bad? I dont think so. But suddenly he saw he can exploit the frustration of common people thru hope (with no clarity), so decided to change his mind. Is that not opportunistic? (I am just asking, dont take it negatively like some other haters like Bee, Sierra, etc)

Edwards has always been opportunistic soo far till his heart changed by seeing the plight of poor people. I feel he is genuine now. But was he the one who started preparing for 2008 then moment he lost 2004? Wasnt he the one who made money all his life based on opportunistic things?

So why double standards when it comes to Hillary? If she is ambitious, hard working, diligent, methodical, plans things in advance and wants to be President, what's wrong in that?

Just thoughts there. Read it without hatred and I open to your thoughts.

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Simon, IA — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:08:11 GMT

Moving the goal posts?

Kaye Miller, WA — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:20:02 GMT

WOW!!! posts are slow, slow slow tonight

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Simon, IA — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:26:04 GMT

Also, your reference to Mrs. Clinton's "Military leadership" is interesting. It looks remarkably similar to that of famous chicken hawks George W.Bush and Dick Cheney. All three got our country into quite the mess in Iraq.
M@ - Chicago (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 2:33 PM)

M@ thanks for your sharing. My take is that Idiotic one track minded Bush leadership is not "Military Leadership". Read Colin Powell's book or Margerat Thatcher's thought process. That in my mind is "Military Leadership", a highly assertive, goal oriented hard working approach.

That's why he (Powell) couldnt get along with Bush and Cheney because they never followed "Military Leadership". Just using army and war is not "Military Leadership".

Moving the goal posts?

Ruth Bethinger, New York, New York — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 04:21:17 GMT

Bill Clinton is claiming that Barack Obama has better name recognition in Iowa than Hillary Clinton? Effectively, that is what he is doing, and frankly I could not be more puzzled.

Moving the goal posts?

Ed, Houma — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 04:33:45 GMT

Help Unite The Republican Party.....Nominate Hillary Clinton "08".

Moving the goal posts?

David Anders Pharr, Tx. — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:26:20 GMT

LOOk at how Hillary has panicked and played Mickey Mouse because she lost a lead, imagine if she lost a military battle which she would because of her disrespect for the Military the soldiers wouldnt fight hard for her. remember she s a KOS supporter and a general betreaus supporter of that name.