Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Tim, CT — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:36:37 GMT

if there's no immediate denunciation (and distancing) from Hillary... watch her campaign implode! Edwards hit hard and deservedly so.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Nashville_fan — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:36:59 GMT

Since the relevant comment about the Massachusetts' health-care plan from Gerry McEntree of AFSCME is so far down in the LOOOOOONG linked article, here is the relevant passage:

"The absence of action on health care reform at the federal level has forced states to pursue their own reform initiatives, largely out of desperation. Although systemic reform requires federal action, we commend states for attempting to address the issue comprehensively. However, we are concerned with the direction reform efforts have taken in some states.

For example, the Massachusetts reform model attempts to achieve near-universal coverage through the use of individual mandates that require those without access to coverage through their jobs to buy coverage in the individual market. Although there are subsidies to help low-income families, many working families will be forced to pay much higher prices for coverage. The most recent estimates for coverage under this initiative for a family with an income of $50,000 would include a $7,000 premium and a $2,000 deductible. Health care costs that approach 20 percent of total family income are unaffordable and unacceptable to working families and they will ultimately doom this plan to failure."

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Tim, CT — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:40:56 GMT

In our new age of warrantless wiretaps, I wonder if the administration knows who's calling who in these closing days pre-caucus?

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Jimmy CHICAGO IL — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:41:05 GMT

"the Obama campaign sent First Read past congressional testimony from AFSCME head Gerry McEntee criticizing Massachusetts' health-care plan, which -- drum roll, please -- mandates health insurance."

AFSCME tarnishes itself by associating itself with Clinton. Reminds me of the old addage "when you sleep with dogs, you wake up with fleas." very fitting, wouldn't you say?

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Rick,ky — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:42:34 GMT

Another SMACKDOWN by Barack's campaign.The establishment is trying to Destroy this Man, only the VOTER"S can keep that from happening.

" DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER "

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

disgusted — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:45:44 GMT

Since the press can't SPIN Obama's health care plan any more and it has been proven to be weak and leave out 15 million people, they have to find something to hit Clinton's superior plan....

OBAMA AND THE PRESS CAN NOT DEFEND HIS WEAK HEALTH CARE PLAN

So try to spin it however you want and divert attention to the old stand by...attack Clinton,

But it still remains...Obama's health care plan makes Republicans smile and lick their lips.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Daniel, NY — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:50:03 GMT

Two new Iowa polls were released this morning -- with two different leaders for Democrats. But the trendlines are not in Obama's favor. Full roundup: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/12/iowa-three-leaders-from-both-parties-in.html

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

J J — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:51:15 GMT

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Desperate, Overland Park KS — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:55:34 GMT

All the Clinton fans out there better realize that there time is over. All the dirty tricks in the world won't help.

I suppose to the lay person who is experiencing the primary season for the first time this year it seems as though Clinton has a shot.

Just to take all the fun out of it I'll tell you what is going to happen in the Democratic primary.

Notice John Edwards and Barack Obama have not attacked each other at all at least with any fervor. This is similar to the Edwards/Kerry strategy.

Like with Edwards/Kerry the first 3 states will be an actual competition between all three candidates, but mainly between Obama and Edwards. Whoever wins the least states out of the first 3 (between Barack and John) will announce that they are dropping out of the race. This will be followed by a quick Vice Presidential nomination selection of the loser shifting the support of Edwards voters or Obama voters to whoever came out on top. With their combined ticket and money (see Barack fundraising) they will trounce Hillary and the rest of the field on so-called Super Tuesday. This thing will be decided on the Dem side long before Super Tuesday.

Sorry to all you Clintonites out there, but this has been in the works and it was set up to where you would never come out on top.

It's okay. John and Barack have basically the same viewpoints as Clinton, but they have a different style, John is more populist progressive, and Barack is the more hopeful movement candidate. They'll appeal to a greater audience than Clinton in the general and probably deliver many of the same changes (healthcare, ending the war) faster and more appropriately than Clinton.

The best thing of all is that the Republicon Christian theocrat fascists are done for.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Sierra, SF — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:55:59 GMT

Please ! Please !
Don't criticize Hillary !!
It's unfair to point out her 'dirty tricks'

Let's focus on her 'warm' side
Here's a testimonial from Norman Hsu....
'naive'
'roll the dice'
'drugs'
'Msulim'
'AFSCME Hit pieces'

Is that the Republican playbook

Any AFSCME members out there ?
Do you approve of this trash ?
I thought unions were 'good guys' ?

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, dishonest, unethical, divisive

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

George — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:00:13 GMT

AH-HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Got it Chuck Todd.

"Obama campaign sent First Read pat congressional testimony..." and then the ...drum roll please...
"gotcha.

We always suspected you and First Read were in cahoots...that Axelrod and Co were partners in your reporting.

Now there is proof.

Disgusting. Since you at MSNBC are Obama supporters why not be HONEST for once and just come out and say we are endorsing Barack Hussien Obama for president rather than pussy footing around attacking other candidates.

We'd have much more respect for you. NOw we have NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

M@ - Chicago — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:02:27 GMT

If Sen. Clinton can't hire a team to run a campaign better than this one, then how exactly will she run the White House. Rather pathetic, no?

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

JG Victoria TX — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:02:53 GMT

So Hillary's attack dogs go after Obama but try to make it look like it's John Edwards doing the attacking? Wonder how that will play in Iowa.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

SoCAl for Edwards — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:08:20 GMT

The media assault on the Edwards campaign is now in full swing and dirty tricks form other candidates (Billary) are coming faster than Howard Dean's decline. Shows what a threat Edwards really is. You're not hearing much about Biden or Richardson. You would be if they were making any kind of serious threat.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Frank Furter independent@large — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:09:16 GMT

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Jesse, Burnsville, MN — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:09:59 GMT

It's funny, Clinton supporters here are criticizing Obama's health care plan, but give no specifics as to what is wrong with it. You say that 15 million will be unsured, but that was just someone's opinion, NOT A PROVEN FACT. If you can prove that it is a fact, please send it to the rest of us. Oh yeah, you can't.

Also, please tell us how Hillary will mandate health insurance, because the rest of us would really like to know. Just saying you are going to mandate health insurance is NOT enough. Is she going to make it a criminal offense to not have health insurance? If anybody's plan has faults, it's Hillarys.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:11:12 GMT

Okay, I’m going to say it!! I am sick and tired of the anti-Hillary rants; many are outright absurd and unfair in my opinion!! It's gotten me to the point that if Biden drops out, I just may vote for her in the primary.

The attacks are now shifting to Obama, which is "odd" for the GOP. McCain slammed him today yesterday on lack of experience; it wasn't pretty; however, it was telling!! Telling of a GOP in a state of disarray; the GOP playbook usually sticks with assaulting the person they want to get the nomination!! The GOP wants Hillary Clinton to get the nomination; however, they are underestimating her too in m opinion!!

But attacking Obama really blows me away!! It’s a substantial deviation from their “Evil Playbook” and I believe it could backfire on them, badly!! They just might find themselves running against him, which is not what they want!! They would much rather run against and continue to attack, insult and smear Hillary Clinton!!

While I do like Senator Obama, I am one who really does not think he has the experience right now; if this comment generates hate posts directed at me, so be it; I’m being honest!!. I believe he should have waited until either 2012, depending on the results of 2008, or 2016. His greatest moment was his keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. I sat in awe of him and have listened to that speech over and over again; it was outstanding and one of the best I have ever heard – from anyone!! I also am somewhat frightened that some, not all, of his followers are behaving in “cult-like” fashion!!

His 2004 speech is what gained him notoriety; therefore, his 'leap frog" over the Biden's, Dodd's, Richardson's and some others with more experience and qualifications have been cast aside!! I steadfastly maintain that experience is "relevant" --especially in this election. George W. Bush has caused too much damage; we need solid experience and I believe Biden, Dodd and Richardson have it. Senator Clinton also has experience; although not as much as Dodd, Biden or Richardson; however, in my opinion, her role as First Lady did give her great insight; in addition, her years in the Senate have been impressive!!

I am becoming increasingly more angry over the juvenile, hate-filled and unwarranted attacks on Senator Clinton; and not from the GOP, I expect that behavior; but from the media and many democrats who I respect!!

PEACE!!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Claudia, Scottsdale, AZ — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:11:25 GMT

Obama's groupies remind me of cult members. I had considered him in the past but many of his followers turned me off to him.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:11:58 GMT

disgusted (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:45 AM)

EXACTLY!! It's disgusting, period!!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Oscar Kingston Pa — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:12:04 GMT

More and more it looks like Edwards is about to win Iowa convincingly.

He might just blow the other two out of the water.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Edwards Hater — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:12:25 GMT

In other news, Edwards goes for more glamour shots at the nearby Des Moines mall.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Jamie S. IA — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:12:40 GMT

I'm sick of nasty campaign's using everything they can to try to dig up dirt and blind we voters to the truth and real issues.

I'm voting for Hillary Clinton who has the best health care plan without leaving out 15 million people.

Hillary will there for us.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

--NSMSNBC — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:16:58 GMT

Dot, here is the issue that I tend have a running theme with (even though the current unsustainable healthcare situation is not the main topic driving me to the booth), like your Afghanistan, the forgotten War on Terror. Obama, well, the Democrats seem to want to move our forces from Iraq (doing better) to Afghanistan (going downhill).

Of course Gerry McEntee would criticize mandates on health insurance, because it's not going to help out anybody financially. The problem isn't that they weren't forced to buy, it's that they can't afford it.

But people say that mandates are needed because it will force preventative care; thus lowering costs. I have two issues with this argument. First, mandating crappy insurance isn't going to lead to preventative care. If people are forced to buy unaffordable health insurance, they will buy the cheapest that will get them by, not offering preventative care. For example, when I had to pay for my own, I bought the one to cover serious injury, not minor health problems. No prevention there, but I did have insurance.

Second, if preventative care would in fact lower healthcare costs ... Look, I'm assuming that everybody would agree that insurance companies would like to make money, lower premiums and get more clients--free market an all. My question is, if this other system of preventative care was so much better financially, why aren't the insurance companies doing such? I say first, let’s find the cause of rising costs, and then take real steps to reduce those costs. Then, when we have affordable healthcare, let’s force it universal if you want.

In other news, you all think that I’m crazy advocating for non-universal health insurance. But I’m not against a governmental insurance program, if they could do better. I say, have private companies and the government compete on an open market, and we can find out which is better. Two stipulations though: those enrolled pay, those not enrolled don’t have to pay. The government program is on equal footing (no unfair advantages) with the private companies. Under these conditions, who thinks the government could win? Offer better care for less? It would be a grand experiment.

America is becoming bad with money, Republicans too, maybe even especially Republicans. Look at the national debt, the bad housing loans being paid off by credit cards—which does not work. Credit and credit cards are destroying this nation, because we don’t seem to know how to use them. For a country that represents capitalism, we sure are not doing well with capitalism. We need to save, and get this country back on track. If debt is bad for people, it’s also bad for this country.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

justin, new york — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:17:47 GMT

"I've just been personally attacked again," Clinton broke in. "I don't mind taking hits on my record on issues, but when somebody starts throwing mud at least we can hope it's accurate and not right out of the Republican playbook."

CLINTON: But for him to be throwing this mud and making these charges I think really detracts from what we're trying to do here tonight. We need to put forth a positive agenda for America..."

"People are not attacking me because I'm a woman, they're attacking me because I'm ahead," Clinton said, striving to protect her standing as front-runner in an increasingly competitive nominating campaign."

GIVE ME A FC*#** BREAK! clinton is a hypocrite. she does not deserve to win.
______

btw, for everyone who is saying obama's health care plan is bad, don't just say it's bad b/c you're a supporter. back it up by saying WHY it's bad.

how do you expect all ppl to pay for health insurance when it is mandated? garnish their wages? isn't it more logical to make it more affordable first BEFORE you go about forcing ppl to buy this and that?

for edwards supporters, it is unreasonable to say that you have to destroy the corporate interests. b/c for all the talk about overwhelming influence by lobbyists, there are millions of ppl who work at these places. you have to find common ground to reduce their influence not butt them completely out of the picture.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Nashville_fan — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:20:50 GMT

The referenced article is not about Obama's plan, but rather about how the leader of the same union that is sending out mail against Senator Obama's plan was also against the health care plan that Senator Clinton's plan is modeled on in April of this year. Wonder what changed?

Here is a good article that discusses Senator Obama's health care plan in a reasoned and factual way:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/80882

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Dean Waterbury CT — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:21:45 GMT

The bottom line is that Hillary's plan is the superior one--and the only one which could attract some Repub votes in the Senate.

Isn't it interesting that Mr. Todd leads with this anti-Hillary story not the tremendous new poll results for HRC.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Herb Lawsom — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:22:59 GMT

NEED ANSWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why does First Read ignore all the underhanded, nasty attacks that Obama makes on Hillary while digging in tandem with the Obama campaign to find anything to blow up into a SUPPOSED scandal on Clinton?

Please go to attacktimeline.com

The press did the same thing to Gore in 2000 and LOOK WHAT WE GOT.

For the sake of all of us and our future,get back to real issues.

Will Obama's health care plan be the best for working people? Does it leave us out? As president would he really fight for health care? He's using Republican talking points (mandates) now.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

CitizenJ — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:24:21 GMT

Go-o-o-od try to change the narrative about Barak Obama's POOR health care plan.

You can rail about Clinton in any nasty way you want and accuse her of all kinds of vile things...BORING...it's already been done for years and didn't work.

The bottom line is that Obama's health care plan is a poorly thought out policy.

****************************************************

Obama's health care plan is bad...so spin it however you want but it will not change that fact.

J J (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:51 AM)

And for as poor as everyone claims Obama's plan is because it "leaves out 15 million people", we still have heard NOTHING about how Clinton's or Edwards' mandate will cover EVERYONE. Have we heard an estimate on how many people will be "told" to buy insurance, but still won't do it? Oh yeah, I forgot: when they go to the emergency room after their car accident, they will be automatically enrolled. Then when the bill comes and they STILL CAN'T AFFORD IT, and as a result don't pay it, we will throw them in debtors prison so they can learn from their mistakes.

What's the problem with healthcare? It costs too much and people can't afford it. What is Clinton's and Edwards' solution? Make them pay it anyway??? Lowering the costs comes first, then we won't need a mandate.

How many people drive without mandated car insurance? And that is a fraction of what health insurance costs.

But really, all of this is just for fun because Congress will NEVER pass a plan that can be spun as "socialized medicine".

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Ron, TX — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:25:34 GMT

George? MSNBC is dishonest for posting the AFSCME's leader's past testimony railing against mandates after the AFSCME tries to act like it is in favor of mandates? Hmmmm. See, there's no bias when something is TRUE. There's only bias when something is untrue.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

CitizenJ — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:26:09 GMT

We always suspected you and First Read were in cahoots...that Axelrod and Co were partners in your reporting.

Now there is proof.

Disgusting. Since you at MSNBC are Obama supporters why not be HONEST for once and just come out and say we are endorsing Barack Hussien Obama for president rather than pussy footing around attacking other candidates.

We'd have much more respect for you. NOw we have NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

George (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:00 PM)

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the whole news process. EVERY campaign EVERYWHERE sends things to the media.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Not impressed with Rep talking points — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:27:27 GMT

OH, HORRORS!

Repubican health care policy. They abhor...drum roll...mandates! Not to mention health care period.

Obama screams about...drum roll...mandates, as well.

Perhaps Obama is in the wrong party.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:28:10 GMT

Correct me if I am wrong. The Union CAN'T coordinate with Clinton's campaign. That would be illegial.

The Union can freely - as in is ALLOWED - to tout an issue and take on any candidate in a negative or positive way re: that issue.

So what we have here is another - for the 10,ooo time - is Barry Obama and campaign crying and whining about something that is perfectly in bounds and that they just happen not to like.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:30:42 GMT

Furthermore, how it is "disguised"?

Doesn't it clearly say that is the product of the AFSCME?

Tell Barry Obama to toughen up. He looks weaker by the day.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

hisgirlfriday — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:39:27 GMT

George,

It sounds like you're already on edge so I don't want to alarm you, but I'm going to let you in on a little secret. ALL THE CAMPAIGNS send things to First Read and thus Chuck Todd is in cahoots with all of them.

I think it's sad that the Obama campaign has to be the ones pointing out the hypocrisy of AFSCME on this issue rather than intrepid reporters finding this out for themselves, but I'm not sure exactly what is sinister about the Obama people submitting copies of congressional testimony to First Read.

But then again I don't drink the Clinton victimization kool-aid.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Anyone but Obama — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:41:10 GMT

Please, please
Continue to give Barack Hussien Obama a free pass
We don't need to know the truth

*Indicted slumlord Rezko..good friend and campaign
contributor

*Indicted slumlord Rezko helped his friend
Obama buy his million dollar house/property

*Indicted slumlord Rezko's lawyer Obama and his
law firm helped Rezko get millions of dollars
of our tax money to remodel buildings...

Yet during a Chicago winter there was no
heat and the people were freezing...Obama
nor his friend Rezko did anything to help.

You bet, Obama has the lower and middle class at heart.

We can't live on "hope"!!!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Mike — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:45:40 GMT

Just listen to your way of reporting, so fake. This is another example First read is not being honest, just like Chris Matthew saliver guy. Have some guts to stand up for what a real "media" to America. If by now you still don't read Obama right, You dead, period. Shame !!!!!!!!!!

By the way, why don't you publish all posts supporting Hillary. Lots of people complain they don't see their posts. What we see here is Obama's 24/7 posters. Chuck, please do not join the club, people like you because you are fair, stay with issues, it seems that you are leaning to Chris. Don't lose it. You are way better than that.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Leonard Hart NH — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:48:36 GMT

Labor unions do not support Barack Obama.

They support Edwards and Clinton.

Did anyone ever wonder why the unions...working class people...do NOT support Obama?

Why has the media checked it out?

Do the unions know that Obama will not be there for working class people with his health care plan?

Media...now that might make a good story. Do some investigative journalism instead of the tired, old redundant attacks on Clinton and Edwards.

WHY DO THE UNIONS NOT SUPPORT OBAMA?????

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:51:25 GMT

Lets illustrate to all the Obamamaniacs how silly this is.

Should Movon.org have had to say that it backed John Kerry at the end of every add it ran attacking George Bush in '04?

When Moveon used quotes from retired generals, or newspapers or diplomats in its adds attacking Bush in '04 was it trying to "frame" those folks?

Speak up.

The answer is of course no to both.

Camp Obama, with the media's help, is trying to drum up another false scandel to attack Clinton with, and divert from the topic which is health care and Obama's woeful plan to address it. Next thing you know they will telling us that Al Gore said he invented the internet.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

CE, Kenosha, WI — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:52:05 GMT

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with BS! I think its fine to criticize Obama's plan for healthcare or any other issue. BUT, why do you feel the need to make it appear the criticism is from another person instead of being upfront?

Maybe people look at this as just politics but, ask yourself how you would feel working with or for someone who operated this way in your workplace?

This is why I no longer support her and she is the only candidate that would cause me NOT to vote democratic even though I voted for Bill twice.

Its just sad...

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

CE, Kenosha, WI — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:53:46 GMT

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

kenn — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:55:24 GMT

OK everybody this is politics we never repeat ever insult another person use thier past against them,remember hill and bill ansewring questions on thier marriage before he became president now if you question a policy you hitting below the belt DO YOU THINK THE REPUBLICANS PUSH OBAMA BECAUSE THEY WILL VOTE FOR HIM OR DO THEY THINK HES EASIER TO BEAT.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

JoseyJ, CA — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:56:24 GMT

Most people know a black man won't be elected President before he's been elected VP - and Obama would not be on a Hillary ticket.
Hopefully, the "hope" crowd can figure that out in time to vote for John Edwards!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

kenn — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:56:57 GMT

They are so easily fooled,So john is for obamas healthplan or is he against it .

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

A Real Democrat — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:58:06 GMT

Back to health care, I see.

Okay. Let's discuss Barack Obama's health care plan once again.

This is not a good talking point for him. His health care plan is not good and a weakness for him.

When he uses Republican talking points (mandates) to support his plan, we Democrats know we are in trouble.

Republican health care plan....drum roll....Obama's.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Jen, Des Moines, IA — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:59:00 GMT

Former Clintonite Robert Reich won't even shill for HRC!

...I’m equally concerned about her attack on his health care plan. She says his would insure fewer people than hers. I’ve compared the two plans in detail. Both of them are big advances over what we have now. But in my view Obama’s would insure more people, not fewer, than HRC’s. That’s because Obama’s puts more money up front and contains sufficient subsidies to insure everyone who’s likely to need help – including all children and young adults up to 25 years old. Hers requires that everyone insure themselves. Yet we know from experience with mandated auto insurance – and we’re learning from what’s happening in Massachusetts where health insurance is now being mandated – that mandates still leave out a lot of people at the lower end who can’t afford to insure themselves even when they’re required to do so.

..HRC doesn’t indicate how she’d enforce her mandate, and I can’t find enough money in HRC’s plan to help all those who won’t be able to afford to buy it. I’m also impressed by the up-front investments in information technology in O’s plan, and the reinsurance mechanism for coping with the costs of catastrophic illness. HRC is far less specific on both counts. In short: They’re both advances, but O’s is the better of the two. HRC has no grounds for alleging that O’s would leave out 15 million people.

http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2007/12/why-is-hrc-stooping-so-low.html

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

kenn — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:00:45 GMT

Seirra enjoy the next 4 years under this republican party you deserve them you will certainly help them by hating the democratic party like you do,good luck with the general all that hatred for hilliary will really get her supporters behind barack .4 MORE YEARS Maybe your are really a republican trying to influence the other parties choice.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Margaret, NYC — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:00:54 GMT

Oh - NOW - TODAY - the media takes note of empty suit Obama and his votes in Illinois senate.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22335739

Obama is a pleaser - and will please all the corporatists and lobbyists who've funded his political career.

List of lobbyists endorsing Obama --
http://www.rollcall.com/politics/kstendorsements.html

Edwards has never taken a dime from Washington lobbyists!!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

ki houston — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:02:00 GMT

for all you clowns whith nothing better to say than obama plan is bad an leaves out 15, mil . where do you get this from besides clinton talking points . Can you please explain why its bad . Is it because he dose not make people buy things they cant afford . ask your self how dose not want helth care. um that would be zero . so the plan that makes the most since is instead of becoming communist make helth care that adults can afford and mandate kids that cant do it for themselves . Now try to make your case . ups you cant because her plan is stupid and could not pass anyway ,and yea that plan would leave 15 mil or more without ins. the only difference is under clinton those people will also incur other penalties . Please you people have no leg to stand on only negetive staments that you cant prove . This is why your candidate is sinking fast.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

jerry/corpus christi texas — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:02:25 GMT

She continues, "It's fine to have an honest debate about policy, but Iowans deserve better than planted questions and campaign fliers designed to fool them.”

Better leave the Clinton's out of the debate on honesty.
They have nothing to debate in that area.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Jeff Rathdrum ID — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:04:19 GMT

It seems to me that all three plans are about the same except,for the mandate. I just don't see how putting a mandate on a health care plan makes it better, and that seems to be the only problem people have with Obama's plan. What is the mandate a fine? All three have small holes where people might fall through. It seems to me Obama leaves his hole open, the other two cover there's up and will give you a fine if you fall in, none of them actually fill the hole.
So the question is without the mandate (cover over the hole)which plan is better (has the smallest hole)? I don't know!!, it seems that matter's on who you ask.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

ki houston — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:06:19 GMT

gorge is stupid

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Dean, Waterbury, CT — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:07:56 GMT

I wanted to add that I agree wholeheartedly with George's comment about MSNBC and their hatred toward Senator Clinton. If you can stomach Hardball, it's interesting to watch Matthews' lead-ins and the way he ALWAYS has on people who suck up to him and follow his "Obama is the future" garbage. Mr. Todd (not Sweeney) is along the same lines--ya got it!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Chuck ,Big D — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:08:30 GMT

obama and first read.. his own private soviet TASS newsagency.
no need for the truth, just play it for obama.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Kelly (from Pittsburgh) — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:13:38 GMT

Obama's healthcare plan is not at all weak. He has a solid plan and knows how he's going to pay for it. From repealing the Bush tax cuts, improving cost-efficiency in the industry, and demanding concessions from the insurance industry that is ripping off Americans for profit. Hillary says she will mandate insurance, but will never deal harshly enough with the insurance lobby to get significant cost reductions. So American tax payer will be footing the bill. Edwards goes too far (just as Hillary did the first time around). His plan of leaving the insurance industry out completely will sink any chance of it happening. Besides, I don't think the majority of Americans agree with having a healthcare mandate, just affordable access. Obama is right on this issue.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Bee, NH — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:13:58 GMT

Folks,

The verdict is out on Hillary Clinton’s campaign and AFSCME; the two organizations are phony. Both Hillary Clinton and AFSCME cannot be trusted when it comes to what is best for America.

Obama just made both Hillary Clinton and AFSCME look stupid. What say you Madame Hillary Clinton? Obama's opposition research is impeccable. I bet Clinton didn't see this one coming.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Rosemary, California — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:23:03 GMT

All of the comments above don't say anything about the flier being put out to smear one candidates campaign by another and blame it on the other candidate. This is where the converstion should be. Everyone should be outraged at the tactics. If this is underhanded garbage coming from the Clinton Campaign, I can only hope the voters of Iowa see through it.

If in fact Edwards campaign did not put it out there they need to come forth with a strong statement denouncing it. Obama's campaign should merely point out that they have turned from intelligent discourse to outright slander and rise above it.

Intelligent voters will see through it. This is where the press comes in to sort through the mess instead of trying to call the election for the voters before the first ballot is casted.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Pope — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:39:46 GMT

Never seen this many CLINTON INTERNET THUGS on the web. These online thugs are on every major political website out there, its scary.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Pope, Houston TX — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:42:10 GMT

Never seen this many CLINTON INTERNET THUGS on the web. These online thugs are on every major political website out there, its scary.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

David Anders Pharr ,Tx. — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:45:08 GMT

Can you believe the Clintons, getting Bob Kerry to spread rumors,they are worse than Putin and the KGT, its been a known fact that Hillary destroyed any woman Bill slept with and had spies constantly, these are Sickos that know they can tell a democrat black is white and they will believe it. And pray tell me what they have done for any black, except use them, then treat them like obama.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

David Anders Pharr ,Tx. — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:48:10 GMT

The idiot union guys dont even know Hillary's campaign manager was a former union buster and they rubber stamp her. Can anyone in the democrat party read?

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Sierra, SF — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:51:29 GMT

The CBS poll for SC

Obama leads among women !!
Is this the 'Oprah effect' ?

Poll: Huckabee Up in SC, Democrats Tied
Wednesday December 19, 2007 11:46 PM
By The Associated Press

THE RACE: The presidential race for Republicans, Democrats in South Carolina.
^---
THE NUMBERS - DEMOCRATS

Barack Obama, 35 percent
Hillary Rodham Clinton, 34 percent
John Edwards, 13 percent

^---
THE NUMBERS - REPUBLICANS

Mike Huckabee, 28 percent
Mitt Romney, 20 percent
Rudy Giuliani, 12 percent
John McCain, 11 percent
Fred Thompson, 10 percent
^---

OF INTEREST:

In a reversal of many national and state polls, Obama leads Clinton among South Carolina Democratic women who are likely to vote, while Clinton leads among men. Obama has a comfortable lead with blacks, including black women, while Clinton is well ahead among whites of both genders. Bill Clinton has a stronger impact for his wife than Oprah Winfrey does for Obama, for whom she has campaigned in the state. Among likely GOP voters, seven in 10 say they may still change their minds, including most Huckabee and Romney supporters. Huckabee's backers say they like his honesty and religious beliefs, while Romney's cite his stance on issues, honesty and experience. Giuliani and Romney are considered most electable, with only one in five naming Huckabee.

^---
The CBS News poll involved telephone interviews with 447 likely Republican primary voters and 599 likely Democratic primary voters, including an oversampling of black voters. It was conducted from Dec. 13-17. The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 5 percentage points for Republicans and plus or minus 4 points for Democrats.

^---

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

cms — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:52:59 GMT

George - have you lost your sense? All the campaigns send their stuff to all the media outlets. That's how they get, you know, media. Clinton has certainly sent at least as much material to FR as Obama or Edwards.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

C.B. — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:57:57 GMT

###BREAKING NEWS##...NEW CNN POLL HILLARY CLINTON NOW LEADING IN IOWA. *** COME SEE WHY hillaryclinton.com

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

MK, Los Angeles, California — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:00:05 GMT

"Obama's health care plan is bad"

Rather than simply making a conclusion why don't you explain why it is "bad"? Another question for the pro-Senator Clinton crowd --- do you defend the AFSCME flier and it wrongly suggesting to the reader that it came from the Edwards camp? If you do, please explain why. If you do not, then please say so, before you go on to start putting out her campaign's standard boilerplate propaganda.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Jennifer Hunt, Spokane, Washington — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:05:52 GMT

I could just picture bin laden, and those who still want to terrorise Americans, getting a "kick" out of hearing about this presidential race.....Well another thing you can thank the muslim faith for, now some people will use what those particular muslims, did to after 9/11, as an excuse to invade our privacy more.Now don't get me wrong I'm not concerned about Arabic people, I'm concerned about the muslim faith.I'm a protestant Christian.I don't consider the Lord Jesus just a nifty guy.I wonder what Obama's beliefs really are. I don't care if the guy sits in a protestant church or not.WHAT DOES HE BELIEVE? That must have been one heck of a marriage behind closed doors at times. Seesh!!I do believe people can get killed over such a union, if she didn't turn from being an "infadel", that must have been very interesting "union" Obama's parents had at times(hmm muslims don't usually care for Christian's either in the middle east countries). I haven't seen anything but open hatred or demeaning attitudes from muslims in their "homeland" concerning Americans and Christians.Now I am not talking about Arabic people, I expressing concern about the muslim faith that has been proven in these modern times.Some Americans spit on the blood of 9/11 victims with their politically incorrect unconcern and insensitivity.Some are shameless as they pat themselves on the back bragging about their desire for peace.Peace in a fallen world requires protection and defense....not live and let live your way into being suckered.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

C.B. — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:07:41 GMT

HILLARY ROCKS ! ROCK ON HILLARY ! hillaryclinton.com

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Dot, Illinois — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:07:44 GMT

I suppose politics has always been like this, and the people were either too naive or less well informed to
realize what was going on, but the way this campaign is going, I am beginning to wonder if we will come out of this caucus/primary season with ANYBODY I will like well enough to vote for. We have been fed this steady diet of relatively unimportant stories about campaign "tricks" criticisms and rebuttals, and meaningless polls for so many weeks now, are we ever going to get back to hearing about the issues?

Senator Clinton makes statements about how her election will bring down oil prices? How? To my knowledge, she gave no specifics. Senator Obama claims that he will change our country's foreign policy. How? To my knowledge his remarks dealt with what he hadn't done (support the war, etc.) but didn't give specifics on what changes he would make. Various candidates cite specific dates by which they will have troops out of Iraq. How? An immediate pull out and let the chips fall where they may, or what?

Am I the only one tired of reading hateful insulting comments about the candidates, both professionally and personally, tired of reading posters argue facts that can't be changed with people whose minds won't be changed? Is our support of our candidates so weak that we have to respond and challenge every peceived criticism of him or her? Are we ever going to have meaningful discussions about issue related topics--and if we argue can we at least argue about a candidate's position on an issue rather than the trash that seems to dominate our discussions lately?

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Sierra, SF — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:07:53 GMT

George: '..."Obama campaign sent First Read pat congressional testimony..." and then the ...drum roll please...
"gotcha....'

UH....
George, did you notice that AFSCME was trying to deliver a 'hit piece' on Obama by disguising it as an Edward's mailer ?
You're complaining because they got caught ?
Should we PRETEND it was a 'hit piece' by the Edwards camapign ?

Hillary got caught practicing 'dirty tricks' and you're complaining ?
Because it was discovered ?

AFSCME got caught complaining about something they preciously supported
And you're complaining ?

Why doesn't Crooked Hillary just practice honest politics ?
Would that kill her ?

the 'muslim' emails
the fund raising scandals
Norman Hsu
Peter Paul
HillRaisers
drugs
roll the dice
inexperience

Should the media look the other way ?
Nice try

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, dishonest, unethical, divisive

We always suspected you and First Read were in cahoots...that Axelrod and Co were partners in your reporting.

Now there is proof.

Disgusting. Since you at MSNBC are Obama supporters why not be HONEST for once and just come out and say we are endorsing Barack Hussien Obama for president rather than pussy footing around attacking other candidates.

We'd have much more respect for you. NOw we have NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Mike K, Denver — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:08:34 GMT

Just more desperate tactics from the desperate candidate. Hillary will be DONE before 2/5. She says she can afford to come in 3rd in Iowa. Can she afford it in ew Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, and I think there's one or two other contests before Super Tuesday? Every one of those early contests she loses, some of the luster she has in the big Super Tuesday states disappears. It gets harder to keep supporters opening their checkbooks. It gets harder to keep campaign staff happy and hard working. It gets harder to stay on message.

We're working our way to an Obama/Edwards or Edwards/Obama ticket on the Democratic side. Either ticket will crush whoever the Republicans sacrif---er, choose on their side.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Jesse, Burnsville, MN — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:10:47 GMT

George...I think you're a little (no, a lot) paranoid dilusional. Just because Obama's team sent a release, which is an excellent defense for him by the way, to MSNBC, that means their in cahoots? Huh?

I have no respect for YOU!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

ace p washington, d.c. — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:11:16 GMT

people are missing the point. the intent of this is to show the dirty tactics the clinton campaign is willing to use. the clinton campaign has also registered to domain sites that have the sole purpose to discredit obama. they are even using the language cowardly. the article can be read at yahoo. her intentions is to run a dirty smear campaign that is typical of politics as usaual while trying to pretend to be a positive candidate.

this is a subtle attempt to smear edwards and obama at the same time.

i put no stock in the abc/wallstreet poll. wallstreet had a representative on t.v. last week stating they would rather have hillary to deal with than anyone else running. the clinton's have a history with coporate america and lobbyists that reaches back beyond bill's presidency, but became heavily inclusive in the clinton political theology once they became insider washington operatives.

they are going to run a dirty campaign. go to yahoo and check it out. people have no idea what they are asking for if the clinton's return to the white house. they are going to be sold out to big business.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

boynLA, LA, CA — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:13:14 GMT

since when did delineating polkicy differences become personal attacks? it's politics people...deal with it.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Ryan — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:17:21 GMT

This reflects the same kind of political cowardice that Hillary Clinton has demonstrated for years. Its sad that AFSCME bought into the Karl Rove cheap tricks to attack Obama. If there argument against Obama's plan is accurate, why do they need to invoke another candidate to make a point that they believe is true? Its because they represent the weakest form of hack politicians.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

CintiKid, Cinti, Ohio — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:32:02 GMT

Shillary will come out in the media saying she does not condone such practices. However,it already out in the MSM. Her willing accomplice

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:50:46 GMT

The government does a poor job of mandating auto insurance, how do you suppose we mandate health insurance?? Also, what if you don't get health insurance, what's your punishment? Jail? lashings??

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Mike K, Denver — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:51:55 GMT

ABC, Drudgereport,: Hillary Clinton launches 2 new ATTACK OBAMA websites, when will MSNBC stop remaining silent. Hillarys brother, DEADBEAT DAD owes 10s of thousands of dollars. Hillary looks the other way. Is this the candidate, that women want supporting them?
Frank Furter independent@large (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:09 PM)

---------------

Keep in mind that this is the same woman who stood stoic by her husband's side after he was caught getting blown by a mistress in the Oval Office. She looked the other way then, why should it be any different now as long as she gets what she feels she is entitled to?

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

TOLD YOU So — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:51:58 GMT

It's amazing how posts here ignore the main item being reported. Which is - Clinton is attacking Obama and doing that disguised as Edwards.

This tells a lot about character no matter the spin on it.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Joe, Boston, MA — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:52:46 GMT

The fact is John Edwards was a trial lawyer most of his life and a US Senator for 6 years. Now, I believe Edwards’s heart is in what he says and he truly believes it , but when you compare it to what Obama’s life has been about it seems to be no contest.

Obama:

Community Organizer on the streets of Chicago

Civil Rights Attorney

Constitutional Law Professor

State Senator

US Senator

That seems like much more a record of working “for the people” to me.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Nashville_fan — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:11:33 GMT

I find it comical that so many supporters of Senator Clinton have resorted to referring to supporters of Sentor Obama as "ding dongs" and "maniacs"! lol

Interestingly, not ONE person has refuted the SUBSTANCE of the information presented, which is that the head of the AFSCME union in directly contradicting HIMSELF in attempt to confuse voters about Senator Obama's healthcare plan. Can anybody logically refute that? I didn't think so.

*The key phrase that stood out for me was "the Massachusetts reform model attempts to achieve near-universal coverage " . . . "near-universal coverage"?
As in everyone not covered even though the Clinton campaign swore up and down that their plan would cover everybody - or else?

For all the fear mongering, name calling, and smear tactics, at the end of the day, the simple fact is, without Bill Clinton's record as President, Senator Clinton doesn't have a leg to stand on. She hasn't presented one original idea in this entire campaign.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

ace p washington, d.c. — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:12:23 GMT

they aren't supposed to coordinate, but do you actually believe they don't? think about it. it doesn't make sense for someone to invest that kind of money on behalf of someone with out a common theme strategy.

it also is a familiar pattern of what has been done by the clinton campaign the last 3 weeks.

it's politics. some play dirtier, some play rougher and some will try to find a way around any law they can. those who usually find away to get around the law with advertisement and campaign finance law usually win. the clinton's have always been and are still experts at this.

edwards and obama will have to hope that america wants a different type of political landscape or they are going to have to get dirty to. the clinton's have enough dirt to expose if they want to go that route. i mean recent.

you can't run politics of hope if you do what the clinton's are doing. that strategy would be hypocritical and directly against change and new direction. they just need to home that all of america isn't so enamored with the clinton's that they turn away from the truth.

if edwards wins iowa it would be fantastic.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

ace p washington, d.c. — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:15:48 GMT

anyone that keeps saying that mandated health insurance is the only way it will cover everyone should look at the history of mandated health insurance and the hardships it has created for those who can't afford it in mitt romney's old state. also look at who it actually benefited.

please take a serious look. be careful of what you wish. you may get what your asking for.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:17:18 GMT

Do you Clinton supporters, who are screaming about how Obama needs to stop whining, even read the blog? Its Edwards' response.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Sierra, SF — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:18:21 GMT

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC/van: '...Correct me if I am wrong. The Union CAN'T coordinate with Clinton's campaign. That would be illegial.....'

You're wrong, Dickie/van
The union IS COORDINATING with the Clinton campaign
It's another 'dirty trick' by the Clinton campaign

'...The Union can freely - as in is ALLOWED - to tout an issue and take on any candidate in a negative or positive way re: that issue....'

Sure, but they're trying to make it look like it's the Edwards campaign doing the mailer....
ergo: more Dirty trick from the Clinton campaign

The union is criticizing Obama for OPPOSING mandates when they OPPOSED mandates in Congressional testimony

A bit crooked, but typical of Hillary

'...So what we have here is another - for the 10,ooo time - is Barry Obama and campaign crying and whining about something that is perfectly in bounds and that they just happen not to like....'

Actually, the Edwards campaign is complaining about Hillary's dirty tricks, too

Why involve Edwards in Clinton's smear tactics ?

Feel free to ask me ANY Questions you like, Dickie/van
I'm always glad to help the clueless

PS: Dickie/van,
Your girl got nailed for a 'dirty trick' out of the Republican playbook
If she opposes Obama's policies, why doesn't SHE criticize them ?
Why hide behind AFSCME ?
Trying to look 'warm' and 'human' ?

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, dishonest, unethical, divisive

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Alan,Wichita,Ks. — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:38:06 GMT

I think Bush is hoping Hillary will get the nomination!
But he is scared of Edwards!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Steve San Francisco CA — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:51:36 GMT

No wonder people don't trust the political media. You guys write about this without discussing whether the piece's statements on health care plans are right or wrong, but instead engage in speculative conjecture about whether it was meant to look like it came from Edwards, and tying it to the Clinton campaign.

Maybe you suspect voters are not literate enough to read the "Paid for by the American Federation of State , County, and Municipal Employees and not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee." So not only does it say it's not from Edwards, Clinton's campaign wasn't responsible for it in the first place.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Jack, Greenville, SC — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:54:24 GMT

Everyone should read Jonathan Alter's piece in Newsweek to get a clear idea about Obama's plan.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/80882

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

truthinclintonact — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:59:20 GMT

clinton campaign launches two websites solely for the purpose of smearing barack obama using words such as cowardly. article at yahoo.com

dirty politics-dirty politicians

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

truthinclintonact — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:59:32 GMT

clinton campaign launches two websites solely for the purpose of smearing barack obama using words such as cowardly. article at yahoo.com

dirty politics-dirty politicians

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Chuck ,Big D — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:01:28 GMT

hey kids, it's not a smear to use someone's statements in an ad .. edwards knows obama's plan sucks, and he said so.

there wouldbe news if the union made up what edwards says, but it did not.

it's simply first read whining for obama.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Diane J. Pawtucket, RI — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:36:33 GMT

This AFSCME family is supporting John Edwards, and I have a message for Gerry McEntee, you've been a big disappointment to the rank and file for too long, and are disconnected from our wider realities.

Perhaps McEntee has sold out to the corporate interests that have been pushing privatization, or doesn't care how outsourcing has been gutting our communities.. I don't know, but he certainly has been all talk, with very little action or substance. His giving an endorsement to a neo-con like Hillary Clinton proves to me for once and for all that he's sold out and doesn't deserve our support.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Bee, NH — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:42:12 GMT

We have so many Clinton's thug on the website because they are ready to hijack our democracy. If i were democrats i'd rather be concern about Bill Clinton's sexual addiction. Source indicates that Bill Clinton have been to so many sex club in the last 8 years.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/20/clinton-insiders-fear-sec_n_77637.html

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Memphis — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:49:31 GMT

See why we suck so bad - - - HillarySuck.com

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Dick Flatts, Charlotte, NC — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:56:24 GMT

Girlfriday,

Wis your fav flavor of victimization kool-aide? The Barry Obama flavor?

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Dot, Illinois — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:19:19 GMT

NSMSNBC

Just some thoughts off the top of my head.I agree with much of what you said with respect to health care plans. I get confused about what we are trying to do--do we we want to provide better health care or do we want to provide health insurance coverage for all Americans. For me, those are two very different things. I don't think mandating insurance coverage is a workable solution for a number of reasons. Frankly, I'm come to the point where I question if involving the insurance companies is a good idea, period. Seems like a lovely situation for them doesn't it--require everyone to buy their product? I have heard so many horror stories of how insurance companies have refused to pay for claims that I can't see the justification for simply buying insurance just to meet a mandate. If a plan does not cover most claims, what have we gained? If certain treatments aren't covered, the patient who can't afford them does without, so how does that improve his health care?

But then I look at the fraud and corruption that is pervasive in Medicare and I begin to wonder if the government could do a better job than insurance companies, or would we just be creating another bureaucratic nightmare.

I do believe that state government could do more with respect to funding for preventive care for children through the school systems.

Difficult issue this--

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:21:58 GMT

Nashville_fan (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 3:11 PM)

Would you like a list of things I have been called because I defend Hillary? Stupid is not even the worst. I have had my education, my integrity and my character questioned on more than one occasion. I have been called stupid, short-sighted, uninformed, racist...the list goes on and on.

Not, incidentally, by those who support Hillary. Nope, it is the Obama cult that spews that particular venom, because they can't stand anyone who doesn't share their view that Obama is a god. He sees everything, he knows everything and he will fix everything. I wouldn't be surprised if they thought he can turn wine into water.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:25:56 GMT

I am disgusted by people who continue to pass judgment on Hillary for how she handled the Monica situation. Until each and every one of you is ready to let the rest of the world dictate what you do in your marriage, you should all shut the hell up.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

--nsmsnbc — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:29:00 GMT

[Are we ever going to have meaningful discussions about issue related topics ...?
Dot, Illinois]

Dot, I agree with you, and that is my one reservation with FirstRead. The subheading says: The first place for key news and analysis. However, they focus so much on the Presidential candidates and their campaigns, whereas there is so much interesting going on in. I say cover some of the major legislations going on in Congress and elsewhere, that would lead to some wonderful policy discussion and education. Cover what people do. You do have to, however, give credit to people for staying on topic to argue about the candidates, since that is what most of the topics are.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

bardonaut, seattle — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:30:17 GMT

Wow! Who's hiring bloggers to turn a comment thread on an article about Edwards into HillBama standoff?

The fix is in, folks. Your only options are Obama (no UHC) and Hillary (dumbed-down Edwards UHC). Shut up and like it because it's the only way Republicans stand a chance in '08.

i sure hope that for once Dems wise up for the sake of our country and the world. Edwards offers the only realistic yet sufficiently drastic approach given our dire situation.

Hopefully Dems can overcome their anti-white misandry once they enter the caucus/voting booth!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

independent revolt — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:07:31 GMT

president bush said in his speech this morning that he is feeling pretty good about the GOP keeping a republican in the white house. if you remember he also so said just a month ago, that he thought hillary clinton would be the nominee.

bush knows that if hillary wins the democratic nomination, the gop, neo-con, conservative, republican, libertarian and christian right base will rise up like a tidal wave to defeat hillary clinton.

he also knows that so many democrats will not go to vote if hillary wins(low voter turn out). the independents will either stay home or vote republican. especially if it is mccain.

just because karl rove isn't in the white house don't be foolish enough to think he isn't going to show them how to get back to the white house. he was the mastermind of the democratic defeat the last time and he will be behind the scenes as the mastermind again.

some of us remember bill and hillary and their white house. it wasn't pretty at all. were hillary's campaign is making up stuff on edwards and obama, the republicans will be firing the truth and it will bring her down hard. they already have issues that are leading to possible inquiry and they haven't gotten the nomination as of yet.

after the news about the two websites today and this flier that was really dirty i have decided that hillary will be absolutely bad for this country. hillary has no respect anyone. she will assasinate with lies, deceptions and breaking the law. they did it before. they are going to do it again.

as an independent i will vote for biden, edwards, obama or richardson. if hillary wins i am not going to vote, unless it is mccain, then i will vote against hillary.

i know some of you love hillary with blind eyes. i don't and won't be fooled. i will absolutely not ignore her sleazy, dirty campaign tricks she has decided to resort to.

independents have their own forums and correspondence. yes, some may vote for hillary, but the majority will not. they will either not vote or move to the republicans.

you will lose if you nominate hillary. you can't win without the independent vote and the majority of the independent vote is not going to turn out for hillary.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Larrie, Western Iowa — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:14:43 GMT

Carrie --> Would you like a list of things I have been called because I defend Hillary?

No. Please. No one cares. Just go away.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Rick,ky — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:53:38 GMT

Carrie from Iowa, You should just shut the Hell up. She stood beside him & defended his lie to the WORLD. Don't give me that poor poor Hillary crap. This country is ABSOLUTELY SICK & TIRED OF THEIR KINDA POLITICS.Thinking voter's are fool's & can't think for themselves or remember the past.You have gall to tell other's to shut the Hell up, considering you explain yourself to be for Biden, when you do nothing but slam Barack & Sing ' HAIL TO THE QUEEN ", nonstop, 24-7 on here.Maybe you are so insecure that you need someone to tell you How, What, When, Where, Newsflash, 44% of the country Despises Hillary, put an Independent into the mix & it's another asswhooping for us Democrat's. So my word's to you are" SHUT THE HELL UP , CARRIE FROM IOWA"

" DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER"

Maybe you just enjoy be Lied to carrie from Iowa.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Nashville_fan — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:53:21 GMT

"Nope, it is the Obama cult that spews that particular venom, because they can't stand anyone who doesn't share their view that Obama is a god."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Carrie,
I am sorry that you have been called names, however I don't appreciate being referenced as a cult member simply because of the political candidate I choose to support.

It is interesting that you are more troubled by a few rogue comments on a blog than the rogue Clinton campaign which is being run deeper and deeper into the gutter daily.

So, as an Obama supporter, am I supposed to sit back while Senator Clinton accuses him of being a drug dealing Muslim terrorist? What would be an appropriate respone in your view?

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

your boy teddy in ORLANDO — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:10:51 GMT

countdwon to melt down

3 - 2 - 1 we have an explosion HRC is she goign to try and cry again?????

sorry HRC supporters but even you need my boy -

yeah thats right OBAMA 08 dont worry he wont hold any grudges!!!! only thing he wants to do is make life better for all americans even you

vote for obama!!!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:19:43 GMT

So, as an Obama supporter, am I supposed to sit back while Senator Clinton accuses him of being a drug dealing Muslim terrorist? What would be an appropriate respone in your view?

Nashville_fan (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 10:53 PM)

An appropriate response would be to treat those who do support Hillary with respect, and not consistently refer to them as stupid, brainwashed, etc.

If you do not engage in the belittling and insulting of those who defend Hillary, then the comment does not apply to you. You raised the question on some names that were being attached to Obama supporters; I simply responded with the same regarding Hillary supporters. I was not accusing you personally of engaging in such behavior.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:23:24 GMT

P.S. Nashville Fan:

I don't appreciate being told that I have no brain because I like Hillary. I don't appreciate being told that I am a paid operative because I defend her. (No similar comments are made regarding those who sing Obama's praises and/or insult Hillary day in and day out, by the way).

If everyone would take a deep breath and start treating others with respect, this blog would be a much better place. I realize that I have fallen victim to the insanity myself; however, that is usually in response to people insulting me or making assumptions about the kind of person I am because I happen to think Hillary is a smart, tough woman.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Nashville_fan — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:34:10 GMT

Carrie:

Thanks for your response. I try to focus my comments on the candidates and the issues when possible, and I take everything written hear with a grain of salt and a big dose of humor.

You seem like a thoughtful and well spoken person, but it has become clear that no matter how low the blow, you feel that Senator Clinton has been fair and above board with the way she has run her campaign. I could not disagree more.

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Marla, Redding CA — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:15:07 GMT

Pro-Clinton AFSCME ought to quote Clinton in their flier to defend her health care plan over Obama's instead of portraying Edwards as the attacker. They should have the guts to say what they mean, and mean what they say--as does Edwards.

While Clinton's plan--presented seven months after Edwards'--may be very similar, her advocacy for the public interest over special interests doesn't stand up to Edwards'. She'll get to health care at the end of her second term, she said. He plans to submit a plan to Congress on the first day of his Presidency that would end health care converage for the President, Cabinet, Congress, and all political appointees in both branches if health care isn't universal by July 20, 2009. Mark your calenders. Edwards '08!

Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Max — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:45:12 GMT

Nice try, MSNBC.

Obama is critized in the flier for not covering everyone. The AFSCME testimony criticized Massachussetts' system because it mandates coverage.

So??? Neither statement is exclusive. AFSCME apparently wants complete coverage for everyone, without FORCING or MANDATING a specific plan onto people. Their point is that coverage should be AVAILABLE to everyone, but not FORCED on anyone. Why is that so hard to understand?

As such, they are right to criticize Obama's plan if it fails to make coverage available to everyone. That does NOT mean AFSCME endorses mandated coverage, and it does not place them in contradiction to their earlier testimony about it.
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In spite of all the above, you are right about one thing. The Clinton's are hard-ball playing scum-bag politicians who make Karl Rove blush. They calculated this flier to make it look like Edwards was bashing Obama and Clinton was staying out of it. This, I believe, to the very marrow of my bones.