First thoughts: Calling Rudy

diane — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:35:00 GMT

I've thought about the using of fellow congressional people to attack one of their own.
It would be one thing if it was different parties but, it really diminishes those democrats who are carrying Clinton's water and dishing out dirt on a fellow democrat who they work with.
There is something slimey and tawdry about it.
But, leave it to Hillary to stoop this low. I just don't understand why people like Tubbs Jones and others would willingly go along.
A new low in politics and of course, Hillary is the one to do it.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Sierra, SF — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:35:10 GMT

.....and remember folks; using COCAINE doesn't count!

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

diane — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:37:01 GMT

Forgot to say Merry xmas back at all of you guys at first read. Thanks for making our year interesting and I hope all of you have a wonderful holiday.
But, we will miss reading First Read for a few days.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

jerry/corpus christi texas — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:37:42 GMT

I found this piece a bit interesting.....

1993: White House Aide Leon Panetta: Hillary Clinton “Insisted On Considering Cuts In The Social Security And Federal Retirement COLAs When Just About Everyone Dismissed The Idea As Too Controversial.” “The president’s First Adviser, Hillary Clinton, also participated in shaping the budget. ‘They both have strong social conscience but both are equally practical and hardheaded as well,’ [Leon] Panetta said. In some ways, Hillary appeared to be better than the president at estimating the consequences and likely opposition to policy changes. When she wanted to, she could be quite tough. She insisted on considering cuts in the social security and federal retirement COLAs when just about everyone else dismissed the idea as too controversial. In the end, Clinton himself decided not to shave one percentage point from the COLAs; but the cuts remained in play right up until the end of the budget negotiations.” [Newsweek, 5/3/93]

SO Hillary did have a plan for Social Security......
Is this the plan she will use as President?.......
She cuts the COLA's from social security she will really have a formidable foe to deal with; AARP....

What do you say AARP people?
Going to let Hillary cut your Social Security??????

Doing Hillary’s dirty work? As we’ve noted over the past week, Clinton has stopped engaging Obama and instead has shown her softer side (in testimonials and TV ads). But that doesn’t mean the anti-Obama jabs from the Clinton campaign have stopped. Yesterday, three Clinton surrogates -- Reps. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, Anthony Weiner, and Joe Crowley -- held a conference call with reporters whacking Obama over his “present” votes while serving in the Illinois legislature. (Just asking: Has any other campaign used its congressional supporters to attack a fellow colleague?)

Hillary would make a deal with the devil to get what she wants...and use anybody and anything, including her family to get to the promised land.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

MK,MO — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:42:11 GMT

best remember edwards is the only dem that can win the general election, neither of the media anointed novelty candidates can, it's either edwards or republican victory in 08

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

H.R.C surrogate — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:45:39 GMT

I heard John Edwards say that Obama shouldn't be elected because he smells like poo! I love throwing mud and fighting!! It's "the fun part!"

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Terry — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:47:31 GMT

First Read

I want to hear more about Ron Paul. Could you please report on him more often?

Thanks,
-Terry

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:52:56 GMT

Daily First Read Truth-Pak-

Trust no one...
The following sites devote as much time and space to Denis Kucinich and Joe Biden as they do to the big three. Whether you are a dem or republican, liberal, moderate or conservative, your candidate is represented equally at these sites. Forget about Big Media and the MSM, create your own narrative.

We don't need anyone to spoon-feed information to us about the candidates or the election, it's right there for everyone if you know where to go. Campaign money, donors expenses, go here

http://www.opensecrets.org/ Opensecrets.org is "Your guide to money in U.S elections."

Just about every poll from every pollster, averaged out, with a link to the source
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ Is THE source for political junkies, with links to every major political site on the right, left and center.

What the candidates actually have said about the issues.
http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm This is a Great site! Every candidate on every issue!

How the candidates have voted and their LIberal/Conservative ratings
http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=asc#vr Has the voting records for all members of congress, and their Liberal/Conservative ratings.

http://votesmart.org/index.htm Here's what they say at the site;
Thousands of candidates and elected officials. Who works for you? Who is seeking your vote? Project Vote Smart, a citizen's organization, has developed a Voter's Self-Defense System to provide you with the necessary tools to self-govern effectively: abundant, accurate, unbiased and relevant information. As a national library of factual information, Project Vote Smart covers your candidates and elected officials in five basic categories: biographical information, issue positions, voting records, campaign finances and interest group ratings.

http://www.govtrack.us/ Do you take transparency seriously? Consider how important to you an open and transparent government is to a healthy society. More work needs to be done to make Congress open. Make a statement to your elected officials by joining now 200 others in signing a pledge for transparency.

Van

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Bee,NH — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:53:14 GMT

The more muds they threw at him the better he comes out to be. What a cliche? I like the fact that Obama is making Hillary and Bill Clinton looks stupid.

Hillary Clinton campaign reminds me of how this season has become silly..lol..

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Mark Murray — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:53:17 GMT

Diane -- Thank you. While the morning edition of First Read will be taking a break, we'll be posting updates throughout the day when news warrants (but hopefully that doesn't happen on Christmas!.) We need to re-charge our batteries for the month that's coming up. It's going to be quite a ride....

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

ajarizona Phoenix Az — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:54:36 GMT

Check out this post which I saw on another blog.
If true, it puts a dent in your contentions.

----------------------------------------------------

FACT: In The Summer Of 1963, Governor Romney Participated In Martin Luther King Jr.'s "Freedom Marches" In Grosse Pointe, Michigan.

In 1963, George Romney Gave The Keynote Address At The Conference That Sparked The Martin Luther King "Freedom Marches" In Detroit. "The establishment of these human relations groups came in the wake of several major events (besides the embarrassing racist practices of such suburbs as Dearborn), which took place in 1963 and helped galvanize interracial support and cooperation for integrated housing. The first event was the Metropolitan Conference on Open Occupancy held in Detroit in January 1963. The second event was the Martin Luther King 'Freedom' March in June of the same year, the spinoffs of which were several Detroit NAACP-sponsored interracial marches into Detroit suburbs to dramatize the need for black housing. ... Governor George Romney gave the keynote speech at this conference, in which he pledged to use the power of the state to achieve housing equality in Michigan." (Joe T. Darden, Detroit, Race And Uneven Development, 1987, p. 132)

Governor Romney Marched In July 1963 In An NAACP-Sponsored March Through Grosse Pointe. "The next couple of NAACP marches into the suburbs were more pleasant. Both Grosse Pointe and Royal Oak Township welcomed the interracial marchers. Close to 500 black and white marchers, including many Grosse Pointers, marched in 'the Pointes' that July. Governor George Romney made a surprise appearance in his shirt sleeves and joined the parade leaders." (Joe T. Darden, Detroit, Race And Uneven Development, 1987, p. 132)

· Detroit Free Press: "With Gov. Romney a surprise arrival and marching in the front row, more than 500 Negroes and whites staged a peaceful antidiscrimination parade up Grosse Pointe's Kercheval Avenue Saturday. ... 'the elimination of human inequalities and injustices is our urgent and critical domestic problem,' the governor said. ... [Detroit NAACP President Edward M.] Turner told reporters, 'I think it is very significant that Governor Romney is here. We are very surprised.' Romney said, 'If they want me to lead the parade, I'll be glad to.'" ("Romney Joins Protest March Of 500 In Grosse Pointe," Detroit Free Press, 6/29/63)

· In Their 1967 Book, Stephen Hess And David Broder Wrote That George Romney "Marched With Martin Luther King Through The Exclusive Grosse Point Suburb Of Detroit." "He has marched with Martin Luther King through the exclusive Grosse Pointe suburb of Detroit and he is on record in support of full-coverage Federal open-housing legislation." (Stephen Hess And David Broder, The Republican Establishment: The Present And Future Of The G.O.P., 1967, p. 107)

FACT: As Governor Of Michigan, George Romney Fought For Civil Rights And Marched In Support Of Martin Luther King Jr.

George Romney Was A Strong Proponent Of Civil Rights And Created Michigan's First Civil Rights Commission. "The governor's record was one of supporting civil rights. He helped create the state's first civil rights commission and marched at the head of a protest parade in Detroit days after violence against civil rights marchers in Selma, Ala., in 1965." (Todd Sprangler, "Romney Fields Questions On King," Detroit Free Press, 12/20/07)

In 1967, George Romney Was Praised At A National Civil Rights Rally For His Leadership. "Michigan Gov. George Romney walked into a Negro Civil Rights rally in the heart of Atlanta to the chants of 'We Want Romney' and to hear protests from Negroes about city schools. 'They had invited me to come and I was interested in hearing things that would give me an insight into Atlanta,' the Michigan Republican said. Led by Hosea Williams, a top aide to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., the all-Negro rally broke into shouts and song when Romney arrived. 'We're tired of Lyndon Baines Johnson,' Williams said from a pulpit in the Flipper Temple AME Church as Romney sat in a front row pew. 'Johnson is sending black boys to Vietnam to die for a freedom that never existed,' Williams said. Pointing to Romney, Williams brought the crowd of 200 to its feet when he said, 'He may be the fella with a little backbone.' Williams said Romney could be 'the next President if he acts right.' The potential GOP presidential nominee left the rally before it ended." ("Romney Praised At Civil Rights Rally In Atlanta," The Chicago Defender, 9/30/67)

Photograph: "Dr. Martin Luther King speaking to graduate student Laura L. Leichliter (center) and Michigan's First Lady Mrs. Lenore Romney in February 1965." (Instructional Media Center Collection At Michigan State University Archives And Historical Collections)

George Romney Fought Discrimination In Housing. "President Nixon tapped then Governor of Michigan, George Romney, for the post of Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. While serving as Governor, Secretary Romney had successfully campaigned for ratification of a state constitutional provision that prohibited discrimination in housing." (U.S. Department Of Housing And Urban Development Official Web Site, www.hud.gov, Accessed 12/19/07)

Photograph: "More than 100 angry white protesters balked at efforts by then-Housing Secretary George Romney, in car, to open their new neighborhoods to blacks." (Gordon Trowbridge and Oralandar Brand-Williams, "A Policy Of Exclusion," Detroit News, 1/14/02)

FACT: In 1965, George Romney Led A March In Michigan To Protest Selma.

In 1965, George Romney Led A Protest Parade Of Some 10,000 People In Detroit. "Rarely has public opinion reacted so spontaneously and with such fury. In Detroit, Mayor Jerome Cavanaugh and Michigan's Governor George Romney led a protest parade of 10,000 people." ("Civil Rights - The Central Point," Time Magazine, www.time.com, 10/5/83)

· The Days Of Martin Luther King, Jr.: "In Detroit, Governor George Romney and Mayor Jerome Cavanaugh called for a march to protest what had happened in Selma." (Jim Bishop, The Days Of Martin Luther King, Jr., 1971, p. 385)

FACT: Martin Luther King Jr. "Spoke Positively" About The Possible Presidential Candidacy Of George Romney.

In His Pulitzer-Prize Winning Biography Of Dr. King, David Garrow Notes That King "Spoke Positively" About The Possible Presidential Candidacy Of George Romney. "King spoke positively about the possible candidacies of republicans George Romney, Charles Percy, and Nelson Rockefeller. He also stressed the need for greater Afro-American unity, including reaching out to segments of the black community that were not committed to nonviolence." (David J. Garrow, Bearing the Cross: Martin Luther King, Jr., and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, 2006, p. 575)

FACT: George Romney Attended King's Funeral In 1968.

George Romney Attended King's Funeral In 1968. "Vice President Hubert Humphrey represented the White House. Senator and Mrs. Robert F. Kennedy; Mrs. John F. Kennedy; Governor and Mrs. Nelson Rockefeller of New York; the mayor of New York City, John V Lindsay; and Michigan's governor, George Romney, were present." (Octavia Vivian, Coretta: The Story of Coretta Scott King, 2006, p. 99)

· George Romney Joined Other Prominent Americans In Attending King's Funeral. "Inside was the greatest galaxy of prominent national figures there had ever been in Atlanta at one time: Robert Kennedy, George Romney, Mayor Carl Stokes of Cleveland, Nixon, Rockefeller, Harry Belafonte, and an endless array of others equally as famous. Coretta Scott King, sitting with her family front and center in front of the casket, looked lovely and courageous and dignified in a black mourning veil." (Franklin Miller Garrett, Atlanta and Environs: A Chronicle of Its People and Events, 1987, p. 517)

· After King's Assassination, George Romney Declared An Official Period Of Mourning, Ordered All Flags To Be Flown At Half Staff And Said King's Death Was "A Great National Tragedy." "On April 4, 1968, Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated as he stood on a motel balcony in Memphis, Tenn., where he had gone to lead a civil rights march. The following day, Michigan Gov. George Romney declared an official period of mourning for King. The period extended through King's funeral. Romney ordered all flags on public buildings to be flown at half staff and asked that the same be done on private buildings. Gov. Romney, in an official statement, said: "The assassination of Martin Luther King is a great national tragedy. At a time when we need aggressive nonviolent leadership to peacefully achieve equal rights, equal opportunities and equal responsibilities for all, his leadership will be grievously missed." ("Rearview Mirror: Detroit Reacts To King's Assassination," The Detroit News, 4/4/07)

Posted by: arm1osorio | December 20, 2007 03:02 PM
-----------------------------------------------
It's just not as (excuse the pun), black and white as it appears. We're talking about nuances to the overall story: that Mitt witnessed his Father supporting the Civil Rights cause, and it is clear that MLK and George Romney were on the same team, working hand in hand, (is that also too literal)? and they respected and knew each other very well in the cause..

To enen imply or state otherwise, really, honestly, makes you the liar.

To call Mitt a liar and state that he is making things up, is unfair and a stretch.

Go ahead and dig deeper, but tell the whole story, not stupid 12 word headlines.

ajarizona

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Jerry Hater — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:55:27 GMT

First Readers - ignore Jerry's posts. They are suspect. He doesn't cite to sources, and if he does, it is probably made up. Don't believe a single thing he writes also because he's so obsessed with the Clintons, he can't control himself.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

truth, willout — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:58:02 GMT

clinton's dirty work...
if you were any more biased ,you'd sell your children for obama.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:00:15 GMT

RCP averages

Iowa Clinton-28.3, Obama-28.3 TIE

NH Clinton-34.0, Obama-27.8 Clinton by 6.2%

MI Clinton-44.7 Obama-21.7 Clinton by 23

NV Clinton-41.3 Obama-21.3 Clinton by 20

SC Clinton-34.4 Obama-33.8 Clinton by .6

FL Clinton-47.3 Obama-22.5 Clinton by 24.8

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_primaries.html

Van

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

John Alexander,Edinboro,PA — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:08:50 GMT

To all of you at First read, Merry Christmas, I will also take the time to say Merry Christmas to everyone who posts here. See you next year, lets all hope next year brings good things to all of us.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Sharon Stone — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:08:53 GMT

When someone says or writes merry Xmas, does that suggest Xing or taking Christ out of Christmas, or just a way to shorting text? I am not suggesting anything, I just always wondered.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Dean, Waterbury, CT — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:11:20 GMT

Boy the MSNBC hate machine is still in gear. Why should Chuck whine about "dirty work" against his beloved Saint Barack of the MSM by Emily's List when Chris Matthews and Tucker Carlson's shows are a daily propaganda stream for the very junior Illinois senator. He has a whole TV network shilling for him.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:12:39 GMT

Chuck, Mark, and Dom. Merry XMas guys. Remember, don't talk about work for the next couple of days, OK? Next week will be the Weigh-In for the 'Great Iowa Wrestle-Off", and we want you guys to be sharp. Hope you get those Wii's that you all want so desperately.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Tim, CT — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:13:01 GMT

we haven't hit a new low...

this probably still takes the cake...

"With Jefferson as President, so warned one newspaper, "Murder, robbery, rape, adultery, and incest will be openly taught and practiced,"

http://millercenter.virginia.edu/academic/americanpresident/jefferson/essays/biography/3

ah... yes... Jefferson... our most hated of American Presidents!

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:14:25 GMT

John Edwards has used a Congressman, on the record, to attack Hillary Clinton.

What Obama and Edwards are allowed pot shots at Clinton but she isn' allowed to fight back?

Is that the narrative I am reading here?

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Rufus Gibbons, DC — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:15:09 GMT

AJ ARIZ True he marched FOR MLK but not WITH I remember t quite well I was working with a Mormon bishop at the time and he sent Romney a telegram chastising him for marching for "a descendent of Ham

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:16:43 GMT

It is sad that the NYT would sit on the McCain story for fear of influencing an election.

I could understand sitting on it if they think it is flawed, wrong, etc. But if it is accurate then should it not be out there BEFORE the election so that voters are informed?

Is that what the news is supposed to do, inform us?

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:18:43 GMT

Richardson attacks Clinton. Does the media think it is within bounds for Clinton to attack back?

Or will the media think Hillary is a big meanie if she mentions Richardson history of telling lies about a baseball career, or his trouble with "touching" women in the past?

Is hardball politics a two way street or only one way?

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Rick,ky — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:19:37 GMT

Now the groups that don't support him are all, "HUGE UNREGULATED special interests", INCLUDING, apparently the unions he lobbied unsuccessfully for that same nod.
Do you think Barack would be singing the same sad song, if HE had the support that Clinton and Edwards have, and that he too sought from these groups? What do they call it when you have one standard for yourself and a different one for everyone else again? The best part is that he's using it to squeeze more money out of his supporters. It will probably work too...

Van
vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:53 PM)

Van, this a comment you added to a post about the mailer Barack's campaign had sent out to donor's. Even tho he did'nt have the support of the AFSCME in Iowa, he was pointing out in the mailer how much groups had spent so far on the campaign's of other's. I'd like to ask you, if this info is true, then what possesed you to call this man a Hypocrit for it. So i don't havta post the line later, here it is."What do they call it when you have one standard for yourself and a different one for everyone else again?I had to read this a couple times to make sure you had actually called this man a Hypocrit for telling the Truth.

This is typical pattern for Hillary supporter's who see her campaign Freefalling & unable to stop.Hillary's campaign surragtes have called him a Muslin, drug dealer, & who knows what else has been said in private. Inquiring minds want to know to know Van.

BTW, Carrie from Iowa, i seen your post also Wishing everyone would just shut the hell up. Well carrie, we also wish you would just shut the hell up, also.

" DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:26:04 GMT

“I’m not going to mention names, but I mean the notion that my ability or electability argument is being made by someone who starts off with almost half the country not being willing to vote for them doesn’t make much sense.” Barack Obama.

This is not an attack. It's Obama. You won't see, Obama attacks Clinton, or Obama's Subtle Jab at Clinton, or, Obama Strikes Back, or Clinton..."Doesn't make much sense"

It's Obama, so it doesn't fit their narrative.

While Clinton is depicted as being on the attack in everything from a Union's mailer, to her Christmas message, and any surrogate's words or actions are attributed and BLAMED directly on her personally, Senator Obama's words, "attacking" (based on the criteria expressed HERE)Clinton's ELECTABILITY, implying that she's HATED, coming from his own mouth are seemingly not newsworthy.

Here's the thing; I don't think that Obama's attacking Clinton any more than she's attacking him in any of the past few trumped-up headlines and stories here. I'm simply pointing out the different standards that your editorial slant and chosen narrative hold the two campaigns to.

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071221/GJNEWS_01/825658630

Van

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Dot, Illinois — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:28:16 GMT

First Read

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays back at you all. I wish you all love, joy and peace.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Jennifer Hunt, Spokane, Washington — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:29:13 GMT

OH...the day that rock musicans influence society to such an extent!
Yeah..I am picturing Pink on her little pedestal.Its all pink....

But, what I wonder while she sings is... how much booze and drugs has she been wallowing around in before and during her "influence" upon America? Yeah with a rebel yell she cried......And I like some of her music sounds in ways.Oh no..I was practically weaned on MTV.I bow my head in slight shame and revel in happy memories of slash and the grunge scene.

Jukebox heores(the real ones)...let's get some contemporary christian rock in the house.I'm sick of posers.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Richard, Clarksburg WV — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:29:31 GMT

Dickie Flatts - Don't you see the beauty in what NYT is doing? By saying "we have a story but don't want to release it for fear fo influence the election" they are doing just that. If you don't have dirt on someone just say you have it, but are not going to disclose it. That way all the wild rumors can fly and you have done the damage you want without actually saying anything. IF NYT does have a story then they should print it, yet somehow I don't think they do have one (or maybe they are not very sure about thier sources for the story).

As for the Clintons using someone else to sling thier mud... really? I would never have suspected such a tactic from the Clintons. When someone is blind to nothing but power and ambition like the junior senator from NY then nothing suprises me.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Pacheck, Huntington Beach, Ca. — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:32:02 GMT

Leave Jerry alone. His presence is needed to keep perspective. When people read the mindless attacks of a marginally stable person, they feel better about their own thoughts. Besides, he is funny.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Bee, Nh — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:33:52 GMT

Folks,

The verdict is in on Bill Clinton...Breaking News....

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-bill21dec21,1,3249232.story?page=2&ctrack=3&cset=true

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Scott, PA — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:37:06 GMT

"Biden is the best qualified candidate"
Biden's campaign offers the best of everyone else’s campaign in one single package.
EDWARDS: Biden has consistently voted for campaign finance reform and has offered public financing of federal elections, thus, severely cutting off lobbyists influence. Though he has 35 years of tenure, he is considered one of the poorer senators in the Senate. We can trust he's not in it for the money and he is a populist candidate.

RICHARDSON: Biden has been to Iraq and the region more than any of other candidates combined. He is the CHAIRMAN of the Foreign Relations committee, he was not given that job. He commands the respect of all the senators, which is why they overwhelmingly support Biden's exit plan for Iraq...not Richardson’s. The Iraqi leaders and other world leaders respect him and his plan as well. He helped end the genocide in Bosnia and presides over any foreign policy conversation in all debates. People look to him for foreign policy answers, because, well, that’s his job.

OBAMA: Biden was considered the change candidate of hope back in '88. He still holds those views today and considers them even more prescient with 20 years more experience. He creates change against the tide as PROVEN with his Violence Against Women Act and having 75 senate votes for his Iraq plan (THE most contentious issue of the day). The whole reason he entered into to politics was for the civil rights movement and (per the Des Moines debate) is 'the most pro civil rights candidate to ever run'....ever. He actually has results of change and commands respect.

DODD: Biden shares a lengthy career providing civil work to our nation. Biden's experience differs in that he speaks closer to the common American. He has the respect of his colleagues to chair not only the Foreign Relations Committee, but also the Judiciary Committee for over 15 years. I guess it is what kind of experience you have. Which leads me to the next candidate.

CLINTON: Biden has 35 years of actionable experience, with proven results. He has negotiated with world leaders (as resulted with the recent Musharraf and Bhutto incident in Pakistan). Biden has PROVEN he can work with the other side of the aisle and not polarize as evidenced in the 90's. He commands this respect. He knows not to start off the healthcare policy by mandating it, he starts by saying let's cover all the children and all catastrophic injuries first. He has worked the domestic issues that she has used.

Lastly, I would like to say, if we agree that no one is more qualified than him to be the SOS (I think John Kerry agrees), than how can anyone be more qualified to be the president.
Please note that I didn't criticize the other candidates, they are all extremely wonderful and the brightest field we've had in decades.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Robert Jorgenson, Salt Lake City, Utah — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:39:20 GMT

More Flip Flopping from Mitt Romney

A photograph of GOP presidential contender Mitt Romney at a 1994 Planned Parenthood fund-raiser has surfaced, once again raising questions about the former Bay State’s governor’s abortion flip-flopping.

The picture, a copy of which was obtained by the Herald, shows Romney and his wife Ann at a house party fund-raiser in Scituate with Nicki Nichols Gamble, who was the president of the Planned Parenthood League of Massachusetts at the time. Romney has already downplayed ties to Planned Parenthood after revelations that Ann Romney donated $150 to the group.

Gamble said the pic was snapped at an event at GOP activist Eleanor Bleakie’s house and that she “clearly” remembered speaking with Romney at the event. At the time, Romney was running as a pro-choice Republican against U.S. Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.).

“My recollection is that we talked about his senate candidacy and the fact that he was supporting Roe v. Wade and a choice agenda at the time,” Gamble told the Herald. “It was a Planned Parenthood event. We were there to discuss our programs and our advocacy.”

The event was held the same day Ann Romney wrote a check to the pro-choice group. Romney has previously said he had “no recollection” of his wife writing the check to Planned Parenthood.

Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom called the flap “a dog bites man story.”

“Governor Romney used to have a different position on abortion,” Fehrnstrom said. “He is now firmly pro-life and has made it clear that as President he will advocate for a culture that welcomes life and protects the sanctity of life. This is the same path that Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush followed.”

Because of his abortion shift, Romney has been branded a flip-flopper by his GOP primary opponents, as well Democrats. Romney has stated he became pro-life in 2004 during the stem cell debate in Massachusetts.

Beyond attending the event, Romney filled out a 2002 questionnaire for the Planned Parenthood Advocacy Fund in which he said he supported Roe v. Wade, sex education in schools and increased access to emergency contraception.

“With Mitt Romney, this has been more than a flip-flop. This has been an extreme makeover,” said Planned Parenthood spokesman Angus McQuilken. “What voters need to know about Mitt Romney is this: where he stands on any issue is always a moving target.”

Romney reacts to photo:
+ Romney dismisses photo suggesting he attended Planned Parenthood event
dwedge@bostonherald.com

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

M Wells, San Diego — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:42:46 GMT

Fellow colleagues? While the absence of editing is the essence of blogs, shouldn't we expect professionals to do a bit better than this?
In fact, the three persons cited are not even really colleagues ... they are Democrats, of course, but they are Representatives, not Senators, and none has ever served with Senator Obama, who lost the only Congressional race in which he ran (against the far from dynamic Bobby Rush).

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

TruthnMedia — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:44:08 GMT

Bill Clinton says his wife is a "genius" Is he inhaling again? Democrat Senate report concludes there is NO consensus on man made Global warming, Scientist fleeing Al Gore "no more debate" statements. Report in Washington Times Gore is furious. Address this Msnbc, ask the canidates what they think about the findings

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Ron, TX — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:47:07 GMT

When someone says or writes merry Xmas, does that suggest Xing or taking Christ out of Christmas, or just a way to shorting text? I am not suggesting anything, I just always wondered.
Sharon Stone (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 10:08 AM)

"X" is the first letter in the Greek spelling of "Christ"... The x-mas abbreviation actually dates back more than 1,000 years. No religious hatred involved. :)

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Independent Arizona — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:47:19 GMT

I enjoy reading all of you comments and look forward to seeing who is elected to the primary. Merry Christmas and Happy new Year!

Van,

Do you think the early polls will change drasticly after Iowa?

Thanks

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

TEC-spring Tx — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:47:20 GMT

ajarizona Phoenix Az, if you do more research, then you would find that MLK JR never marched in Grosse Point. For Mitt to sys what he did is just as bad as saying he invented the internet. As whne MLK died every govenor did the same as romel or I mean Rommeny. Most politicans know that if your say something long and often enough then people will start believing what you say. It is to bad that Mitt also believies what hs says. A bad sign in a leader is when they start to believe their own lies.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Mike oh — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:47:50 GMT

This is a very strange year. I watched the 7 pm Hardball last night and the opening monolouge by Matthews just stunned me. "Hillary is strangling Obama in his crib!!" What??? He went through the list of all the 'attacks' recently and I fully expected him to end with something like "Then she went to the New Hampshire ASPCA and began to bite heads off of stray kittens while cackling maniacly." It was really over the top. I'm surprised they didn't show her sitting on the throne in the Death Star.
This is politics people, it's a contact sport, I remember all the months she was leading and 'staying above the fray' people accused her acting like she was 'owed' the Whitehouse and being being snobbish. She has taken some real body blows in the last 6 weeks or so and she's still standing, leading or tied in most polls after 6 weeks of non stop, daily reports of how evil her campaign is. Clinton shruggs it off, plays through the pain and hits back. That's a winner. That's what I want to see from our candidate in a general election, someone who can take whatever is thrown at them and hit back hard.
Obama might be able to do that too. But I haven't seen it yet. All the stories going around about the attacks and I've seen very few Obama spokesmen on these shows to rebutt, why? they don't need to, the press is doing it for them. I would bet my next paycheck that Obama was sitting somewhere with his feet up last night watching Matthews with a mile wide grin on his face.
I do support Hillary Clinton in the primary, but more importantly, I'm a Democrat, lifelong registered Democrat, and I'm scared to death we're going to send out Mr. Rodgers from Illinois into a meatgrinder next year. I don't think Clinton is bringing this stuff up because she necessarily wants to, she's not stupid, she knows how Iowans hate negative politics, but out of frustration that no one else is asking these questions. And I defy ANY democrat out there who seriously wants to win this thing this time to tell me they have no problem sending someone out there who hasen't been tested. Would you buy a car without driving it? I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Obama winning if I knew what he could do.
Even if you believe all the conspiracy theories, that Hillary is behind every single attack, so what? What is so 'below the belt' about asking questions about voting records, about admitted cocaine use, about the influence of his muslim heritage, even about his middle name. Do you honestly think that all these things and more haven't been playing through the heads of every republican strategest out there?
Let's not forget that whoever wins the nomination does not automatically win the Whitehouse, there's still another race to run.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Sierra, SF — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:47:52 GMT

'.....and remember folks; using COCAINE doesn't count!
Sierra, SF...'

This is a perfect example of the Clinton campaign
(van) stirring up 'racially tinged' issues

For the uninitiated, van posts as HP,Boston , Susan, Miami, Stu,Saginaw and (most importantly) Dickie Flatts and Tofun,Disney.

The latter two alter-egos posted 'racially tinged' postings
Dickie Flatts mentioned several times that Obama had previusly dated 'white women'
Why does that matter ?
What was the purpose ?

J'ACCUSE, van

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

jd — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:51:53 GMT

So diane When the congressman from Wyoming (supporting Obama) wrote an article to claim that Sen Hillary Clinton is unelectalable and that she will be a drawn down for the party if she on the ballot? How do you call that? He started it and when they give a taste of his own recipe he whined.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Dot, Illinois — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:52:00 GMT

Sharon Stone

I don't know if you were being facetious or serious, but if serious, I think X was a symbol for Christ (perhaps Greek?) Merry Christmas!

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Steve, San Diego — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:58:57 GMT

First Read- You have earned a break, and we hope you have a pleasant holiday. When the new year breaks, please just report the news, and don't create any stupid/non-sensical leads. January and early February will clearly leave us with a front runner. The usual crowd will still rant about thier favorite candidates, or knock them down. Just refrain from any indications of bias.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

jerry/corpus christi texas — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:00:19 GMT

25-27 Dennis Kucinich campaigns in New Hampshire....

Seriously.....

It's christmas morning.....
The presents are being ripped open.....
everyone is beaming and happy.......
suddenly the doorbell rings........
"Hi I'm Dennis Kucinich and I am running for President of the United States!"....

Do you....

A. Slam the door in his face and announce you are voting for (place republican name here)?

B. Sic fido on him and get your video camera for that youtube moment?

C. Hand him a snow shovel, give him 20 bucks and tell him there's an extra 10 if you do a good job?

I don't know what Dennis's numbers are right now in New Hampshire.....

And frankly I could care less....

But dude seriously......
I don't think your numbers are going to skyrocket if you are out looking for votes on Christmas morning...

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Dot, Illinois — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:02:46 GMT

I want to wish all who post here a joyous holiday season. May whatever makes you the happiest be yours in abundant measure. Peace to you and those you hold dear.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Daniel, NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:06:15 GMT

Given that the latest Iowa poll has McCain in front of Romney -- http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/12/mccain-on-fire-arg-comes-out-with.html -- we arein for a wild ride.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Jack, Stratford, CT — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:08:41 GMT

Dean is absolutely right. MSNBC has gone so far over the line with the continual Hillary-bashing and Obama-boosting, night after night for months, that it's downright offensive.

Nothing against Obama, other than a thin resume for the job. But don't overlook that there's a significant plurality of pro-Hillary democrats in this country who just might be getting more than a little annoyed with the heavy-handed bias.

And the biggest practitioner of shilling for Obama is Chris Matthews, who's become practically creepy with his emotionalism, his anti-Hillary twisting of every event, and his bullying of guests who even begin to resist going along with him.

Hardball is now known in our household as the Hillary-Bashing Hour. But you're all guilty, as you obviously approve and participate -- including Russert, Matthews, Gregory (disappointing), Carlson and you First Read guys who preside over it all and get in your own hits.

Your rebuttal to Howie K. was weak. You kind of admitted the bias but implied it's just balancing a pro-Clinton bias during the summer? Gimme a break. There was nothing like this deliberate spin for one candidate and against the other. And it's not a justification anyway.

And the bit that a couple of journalists shouldn't speak for them all? What are you talking about? Howie and his contributors never said they were talking for everybody. They did say there's been significant bias, and they're right.

Well, in for a penny etc. NBC has reached the point where they better hope Obama wins, because the network has pretty much positioned itself at the end of the news source food chain in a Clinton administration. And regardless, you're alienating a good sized audience that would be OK with just a little more balance and less of the blatant spinning.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Barbara C., Pompano Beach, FL — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:10:08 GMT

Rudy has bigger issues than being ILL today. I just read a story about the 2,000 boxes of records and tapes he did as Mayor of NYC are laying in a storage facility in Queens. This guy is a credit to the same kind of secretness the Mafia runs on....

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Paul, NY, NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:19:35 GMT

Bee, NH

You consider it "breaking news" that Obama supporters are upset with President Clinton that he is campaigning for his wife???!!!

Wow, must be a sloooowwww news day in NH.....not to worry, I'm sure we'll see another 20 or so anti-Clinton posts from you in the next couple hours as you continue to scour the Internet for any crumb you can find. Try the Drudge Report - that shoud be right up your alley.

BILLARY '08

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Mike K, Denver — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:22:29 GMT

The differences between the attacks of Barack Obama on Hillary Clinton and Hillary Clinton on Barack Obama. Maybe this will clear things up for those of you crying in your Cheerios this morning about all the alleged atrocities the MSM is doing to your candidate.

Obama on Hillary: 99.9% of the time, his "attacks" are at her supposed policy positions, or lack thereof. He's hit her and hit her hard on her non-apologetic vote authorizing the use of force in Iraq and then her continued sabre-rattling and approval of President Bush's unsuccessful foreign policy by voting for Kyl-Lieberman. He has hit her on her on her supposed healthcare plan that is nothing more than a lottery jackpot to private healthcare companies. He has hit her on her flip flop about illegal immigration, noteably her multiple answers at the Philadelphia debate about DLs for illegals in her home state of New York. So, if you'll note, all of his supposed attacks have been above the belt, careful attacks of her politics. No personal assaults of character or anything else that is the norm of most Presidential campaigns.

Hillary on Obama: Surrogates allowed to make personal attacks seemingly at will so that the Senator is free to keep a "positive message of hope" for her campaign. These surrogates have made comments calling Senator Obama a Muslim although he is raised and is a practicing Protestant, going to church regularly with his wife and two children. But what the hell, if it sticks even a little, we got him! Continued assaults about his use of illegal drugs as a youth which he openly discusses at length in his best-selling memoir. This at the same time we have a known alcoholic in the White House and an ex-President who tried to tell us that while he smoked marijuana in college, never inhaled. But what the hell, if the fact he was a drug addict sticks, we got him! Sending out brochures sending out false information about Obama's healthcare plan (I have yet to see where this 15,000,000 uncovered comes from) and planting the seed that it was another campaign behind it. This is so they may take the high road. No one fell for it. Not at all. Everyone knew its origins and pointed the finger right where it belonged--Senator Clinton. This is what is called a campaign of desperation and fear. Not fear that Obama may in fact win, but fear that the citizens of the USA have finally had enough of the Clintons and are letting it be known. It is a campaign that has no clear captain and has become every man and woman for himself. You can see it when staffers send e-mails no one knows about. A senior staffer giving interviews to newspapers which has top level national campaigners scrambling to spin his comments when there is no way to spin them.

All this taken in whole shows me that while one campaign is gaining strength and momentum and has people truly listening and engaging in its message, the other has become unhinged and totally off message because it felt that the nomination and presidency weren't something that needed to be fought for, but were thought of as a right to own. People in America are watching and are listening and know that when things like this happen, it isn't just us seeing the campaign fall apart, but the candidate of that campaign as well. We have no choice but to ask ourselves "Their campaign is going straight to Hell. Is this someone we want to give control of our government to when we've just had 8 years of incompetence?" As you can see by the dramatic change in the polls across the country, the answer is a resounding NO.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Jeb, Florida — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:22:33 GMT

The Clinton's have always been very good at delagating thier work, dirty or not.

They want their socalist state, with them as rulers & kings, but delagate the cost to you and me.

They delagate their mudslinging to people who should be doing the work of the states that hired them, not Hillary.

And Hillary has always delagated all her marital relations to any ho that Bill can dredge up.

Nothing new.

Dynasties belong in sports, not politics.

The best politician is a reluctant one.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Jennifer Hunt, Spokane, Washington — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:22:33 GMT

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Mary — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:28:19 GMT

Oh jeez. Could the Hillary supporters whine any more about the coverage? At least your candidate is getting covered (with the media swallowing that stupid inevitability meme for months as well as her ludicrous new 35 years of experience one) unlike the Dodd, Biden and Richardson folks with much more impressive resumes than any of the top-tier candidates.

BTW, if Hillary is so experienced shouldn't she be a bit better at managing the media by now? Shouldn't she be a much more polished politician and a have a team much more skilled at working them for good coverage? I mean Obama is just a "rookie" so why is he so much better at this?

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

--nsmsnbc — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:28:55 GMT

“I get confused about what we are trying to do--do we we want to provide better health care or do we want to provide health insurance coverage for all Americans.”
Dot, Illinois (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:19 PM)
**Thank you for bringing up this point. You are absolutely 110% correct. But we only talk about health insurance for some reason and a whole issue gets lost in the argument. I appreciate you reading my healthcare/insurance rant. Something needs to change, our current healthcare and health insurance system is not sustainable.

--Here is a link to the Mayo Clinic recommendation. Well known institution and these recommendations are not biased and not partisan, far more independent than myself. I feel like a broken record posting this, but it is interesting. I hope some politician listens to some of these, more than we have the Hamilton-Baker report.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthpolicycenter/recommendations-long.html
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthpolicycenter/recommendations.html

To reform health care, providers, academics, medical industry leaders, business people, insurers, political leaders and patient advocates recommend four areas of focus: universal insurance coverage, coordinated care, value and payment reform.
*So, it goes beyond simply insurance.

I'll wish you all a Merry Christmas later today.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

John B, Des Moines, IA — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:29:10 GMT

"When someone says or writes merry Xmas, does that suggest Xing or taking Christ out of Christmas, or just a way to shorting text? I am not suggesting anything, I just always wondered.
Sharon Stone (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 10:08 AM)" Early Christians often used the Greek letter "Chi" or "X" to signify Christ, so their is a long tradition suggesting that the term Xmas is not a modern disrespect but is both traditional and respectful.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Paul, NY, NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:32:44 GMT

Jack, Stratford, CT

I must say that I do find Chris Todd and Mark Murray to be pretty balanced on average. I don't always agre with them, but I appreciate their talent and insight. And Mark, well he's a cutie.

That being said, I must say that I agree with EVERYTHING else in your commentary. In the beginning part of the summer MSNBC really built up HRC and now for the past few months it's just been tearing her down night after night while Obama get's his free pass. Most intelligent people have noticed this.

I used to really admire Chris Matthews, but in recent months it's gotten to be his mantra to just trash Hillary EVERY SINGLE SEGMENT, while he continues to praise Obama with no real insight.

That's why you can never rely on any one source for your news. Sad, but true!

Then again, I am going to go thru withdrawal with TWO WHOLE DAYS WITHOUT FIRST READ!!! Guess that'll force me to spend time with the family.

Happy Holidays to all First Readers and especially Chuck, Mark and Domenico - thanks for everything!

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:32:52 GMT

When you hold yourself to a different standard than you do others. it's called a DOUBLE-STANDARD! Thanks for playing.

As to taking umbrage and letting fly with the invective, because you felt that I was IMPLYING that senator Obama was being hypocritical, because you would NEVER imply anything negative about senator Clinton;

"Carrie from Iowa, You should just shut the Hell up. She stood beside him & defended his lie to the WORLD. Don't give me that poor poor Hillary crap. This country is ABSOLUTELY SICK & TIRED OF THEIR KINDA POLITICS.Thinking voter's are fool's & can't think for themselves or remember the past.You have gall to tell other's to shut the Hell up, considering you explain yourself to be for Biden, when you do nothing but slam Barack & Sing ' HAIL TO THE QUEEN ", nonstop, 24-7 on here.Maybe you are so insecure that you need someone to tell you How, What, When, Where, Newsflash, 44% of the country Despises Hillary, put an Independent into the mix & it's another asswhooping for us Democrat's. So my word's to you are" SHUT THE HELL UP , CARRIE FROM IOWA"

" DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER"

Maybe you just enjoy be Lied to carrie from Iowa.
Rick,ky (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 7:53 PM)

What was your point again? Something about a double-standard?

Van
(Hoisted on your own petard)

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

McCain Hater — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:34:24 GMT

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:44:56 GMT

The Sierra Panic-meter is at 10 1/2!!! Why is one of the most scrollable and irrelevant slandering ranters here now INCLUDING me (and insulting others) in every scrollable over-long rant?

Sierra-

As you know, I seldom acknowledge your existence, choosing to scroll past your repetitious screeds. That you decided to answer a question directed to someone else, (understandable as no one EVER asks you anything) gives me the opportunity to cut you a new one and highlight the meaningless silliness that you post, and that most ignore daily. Here was the question;

What has senator Clinton done in her senate campaigns and while in the senate SPECIFICALLY that you believe justifies your anger and criticisms?

Lets see what perhaps the biggest Hillary-hater on the board has in their quiver. He gets the chance to air all of the terrible things that he feel will influence others to not vote for Clinton and because it isn't his post, people may actually read it! What will Sierra do with his chance? What damning evidence does he have of Clinton's perfidy?

Did you really open a can of worms on that one Van....

Let's start with:

chinese dishwashers- LOL Didn't someone have BABIES contributing to their campaign? If it isn't Clinton it isn't bad? Just shows your crazy bias and one-sidedness yet again

planted questions- Obama had one this week. Will we be seeing you harp on that? More one-sidedness.

planted people-Where are they PLANTED? LOL

fake laughs-Do you have any idea how foolish this makes you seem?

fake answers-As opposed to REAL answers? What does this even mean? Do you realize how foolish these lame criticisms paint you to be?

furniture from the white house-What about the TOWELS!!!!

travelgate-EXONERATED, and only a low-life creep would continue to post this crap without ADMITTING that. But then you have nothing of substance in your endless litany of lies and inanities, so lacking anything that is true you continue to perpetuate lies.

whitewater-EXONERATED, and only a low-life would continue to post the claim without noting that it had been DISCREDITED.

Vince Foster-Committed suicide, and only a hate-filled, low-life would have the lack of human decency to continue to exhume his dead corpse to try and smear the name of someone he loved and respected. I only wish I could come to your door with the members of mister Foster's family so they could look you in the eye and tell you what they think of you and your despicable use of his tragic death.

Monica-That was Bill Clinton's indiscretion and (this might surprise you) most DEMOCRATS felt it was a personal matter between two married people. That the Clinton's survived a crisis and kept their marriage together, like MILLIONS of other couples, is only an indictment of how low you continually sink to smear the only 2 term democratic president since FDR.

Bill-One of the best, if not the best president of my lifetime, and THE MOST POPULAR democrat in the party. Are you even a democrat? This crap would make anyone wonder.

Socks-This is logically consistent with the rest of your reasons.

Buddy-You could really probably use a dog, or some kind of friend, yourself. Maybe the Clintons have one for you.

Anti Semitic remarks-I'm a Jew, are you? Did you know that there are several Jews in New York? Do you know where senator Clinton is the senator FROM? Do you know where President Clinton's office is? Do you know how ridiculous the, "reasons", you have so foolishly cited to justify the endless stream of hyperactive invective that most simply scroll past? You're lucky that most do, as even a cursory reading of your stuff is enough to see that there is nothing of substance there.

her F word bombs-LOL I can't believe she CURSES! That's should disqualify EVERYONE from the race.

Norman Hsu-Contributed to many campaigns, including Senator Obama, everybody gave back the money and he was indicted. Only you fail to get that seemingly obvious truth.

I could go on and on...But you LED with your BEST and your best is so sadly lacking in any real merit that it only makes you look foolish.

The endless stream of postings, many of great length, that repeat these foolish, spurious, claims won't cease despite being exposed to the light of ridicule, I know;
But the utter lack of truth or import in your daily postings highlighted here thanks to you, may allow more to scroll past as you howl your sad, discredited, sorta' crazy propaganda into the wind.

If you had any class or decency, you'd stop posting some of the things I've put to rest here. Let's see if you do.

Van
(this is why)

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Jennifer Hunt, Spokane, Washington — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:48:13 GMT

Darn it...Haaaaaaaaaa Oh dang!ROFL.LOL
IT was... Not I....in my last post.Seesh! this cracks me up at times.Dang!..

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Kevin, Houston, Texas — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:48:39 GMT

Mark my words and remember where you heard it first. After the holidays, HRC is going to become completely unhinged and start refferring to JE and BO as Taxachussettes liberals.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:50:02 GMT

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Marc, NY, NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:50:04 GMT

I'm always amazed by the extent to which Republican candidates will avoid criticizing the Pres. directly (and when M. Huckleberry does, he's crucified by his own, so to speak). The current lackluster performance of any of the Repub. candidates is largely due to the Pres' unpopularity and mediocrity for the past 8 yrs. However, when asked about the Pres. you can hear a cricket burp. I guess the sheep mentality reigns supreme among the elephants. So much for independent, critical thinking and individualism....

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Sharon Stone — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:50:54 GMT

Ron,Tx and Dot, Ill. thanks for the info. I really was being serious. I heard a preacher once say that the X was a way of removing Christ out of the holidays. I know its politically correct now to say happy holidays instead of merry Christmas, so I didn't know.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Rick,ky — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:52:21 GMT

VAN, WHY DID YOU CALL BARACK A HYPOCRIT ?

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Ron, TX — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:52:35 GMT

I find it intriguing that Obama's supporters offer substance and ideas, whereas Clintons supporters offer hate and slander.

Obama does have the backing at a ratio of 2-1 of highly educated democrats...

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:55:52 GMT

Wow, such venom from Rick in Ky.

Did I tell people to shut the hell up? Perhaps I did, but I'm sure it was not a broad statement.

Cheer up, Rick. It's almost over and then hopefully your blook pressure can return to normal. Seems like just in the nick of time, too.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Marc, NY, NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:58:44 GMT

Seeing McCain kiss up to Lieberman (talk about a loser!) to get a questionable endorsement, is a sad sight to see. McCain is now guaranteed a spot in the pantheon of mediocre, have-been presidential candidates. One would hope he had a shred of self-respect left....

Just saw the new McCain ad with the cross in the sand and his now repetitive references to 'Nam (ad nauseum). Trying to play catch-up to Huckleberry won't win you votes, let alone a trophy in the innovative political ad of the year category. sigh.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Rick,ky — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:59:24 GMT

Van, for most of us, this is'nt our 1st rodeo.We are able to read between the lines very well & you called Barack a Hypocrit. You & other's may understand your quote as a Double Standard, but in the real world, You called him a Hypocrit. Did i tell a Lie in my post that she did stand beside Bill & Lie to the World. Nope, nothing Hypocritical there, Just Plain Fact. Have a nice day, van.

" DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER"

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Jimmy, NH — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:02:10 GMT

Huge News just in!
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1404 Zogby Poll: Obama Leads Top Republicans
Telephone survey shows fellow Democrats Hillary Clinton and John Edwards would defeat some GOPers, lose to others
*note: this is a -telephone- survey, so lets see how Mark Penn tries to dismiss this as a normal zogby internet poll

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Jennifer Hunt, Spokane, Washington — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:13:10 GMT

Dear Mr. Rudy,
On a more, well somewhat more (it is a duality in my heart I must confess), serious note.I have to write to you again. I feel a sense of urgency.It is because I truly believe a real New Yorker like yourself knows how to roll in cash for our country.I have great respect for those who are financially (in a good way) shrewd. We need that kind of person in this grossly dillusional ,false humility filled, liberal wonderland these days.
The utopians have had their say in how people are trained, and the mindsets in America suffer grossly at times.Maybe you did or did not smoke pot with them back in the day, I don't know, but far be it for me if you are not into that sort of thing these days, everyone has a past, far be it for me, in ways, not in others.

I however must be practical as an American citizen.I understand that it would be good for Americans to have a legal contract(without loop holes) to insure you share with us.It is as practicle as you yourself would be,of course, and I'm sure a gentleman, like yourself, has no plans to hold that very reasonable request against me.

May God Bless everyone! and I hope you feel better soon AND Merry Christmas(Now that I am serious about!):))

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Sean — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:18:36 GMT

Bee: you may want to put a link in that works.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Mike OH — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:21:21 GMT

McCain is a failed soilder...he can't lead us to victory in Iraq...heck, he couldn't lead himself out of Vietnam without getting shot down. He is therefore totally unqualified to be commander in chief!

McCain Hater (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 11:34 AM)

The word, "despicable", comes to mind.

Whether you agree with his politics or not, and I don't, John McCain is an American Hero.

Van

---Van,

I've seen a few posts about the different candidates like this all signed ______hater. I think it's just a sarcastic play on all the 'She couldn't pass health care etc, etc, Hillary hater's posts.

If it's not, then I agree, despicable, but I think it's just sarcasm at itt's finest.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Sean — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:22:51 GMT

Where is the poll that states "44% of the country despises Hillary"....being a bit dramatic, aren't we?

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

jerry/corpus christi texas — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:25:26 GMT

Van:

You can come back at me with all your media matters style drool about your worthless polls and how your girl is just a great role model and other moronish attempts to humanize Hillary.......

The fact of the matter is....
Hillary has shown how she can be beaten......
Maybe she should keep all the papers in that warehouse in Little Rock under lock and key....
Might spare us another year of Hillary failings and Hillary controversies....

Your problem Van is that you only see the world from New York City. Her record speaks for itself. Now with this little article I found about how she was going after the Social Security crowd in the 90's (thankfully Bill was there to stop that, makes me wonder if he was the real genius, not Hillary), one has to wonder when Hillary will decide to tell the American people her side and what her plans are and not fund 50 bipartisan committees to figure out what a lot of her fellow candidates have already spoken on the record about.

I remember her first video....
"Let's talk, Let's chat, let's have a conversation"

I'm still waiting for her to start talking....
and without putting me to sleep in three minutes either....

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Rick,ky — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:25:52 GMT

Perhaps, Xtra strength Midol is in order for you carrie in Iowa. Yes, your statemnet was very Broad as i recall your frustration about people defending Barack. My blood pressure is just fine. 2 days ago 120 over 72. I can go back & copy the post correctly for You. but i'll let you find it from yesterday.

" DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER "

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Paul, NY, NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:27:41 GMT

vanreuter, NY, NY

You are on FIRE today! I always look forward to reading your posts - always full of information without the need to tear down anyone else.

Sierra, SF needs to step away from the keyboard for a few moments and take the meds - the neighbors are getting scared!

Keep up the GREAT work and Happy Holidays!

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

John M. — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:28:23 GMT

It's amusing to see Clinton supporters kvetch about MSNBC's coverage. Perhaps they have had enough of simply propagating attacks and are actually using their critical thinking skills?

In any event, don't worry, you've still got the Clinton News Network on your side. You can't seriously tell me they're unbiased with all of the current and former advisors they keep on payroll, not to mention the unbelivable CNN debate.

MSNBC - you started telling the truth about Bush much earlier than others via Olbermann and others. You've got a viewer for life. Please don't be intimidated and keep telling the truth!

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Sharon Walker, Folsom, CA — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:44:33 GMT

Dear Friends:

The orchestra director like is at work. Hilary a genius who cannot solve the foreclosure disaster, uses many minds 500+, and still cannot solve the
health insurance after years at work. Men at work play your tune.

Laughter is man and womans playing. Oh Please!!!Please me baby!!!! See Dick See Jane Run

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Sharon Walker, Folsom, CA — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:45:33 GMT

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Lee Holmes — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:45:52 GMT

TEC: King,in fact,was in Grosse Pointe on March 14,1968,where he was demanding housing desegregation in the all-white suburb. confronted by 200 protesters,he went to Grosse Pointes South High School to deliver one of the last speeches before his assassination three weeks later as a portion of his ''Poor Peoples Campaign''. As he moved with SCLC,CORE and what SNCC members then remained[SNCC then becoming radicalized under the leadership of Stokely Charmichael,which splintered from Kings movement],he performed,by definition,a ''march''. To this day,Kings appearence here remains memorialized.

Also see: ''Eyes On The Prize II'':America At The Racial Crossroads''[1990,PBS,DVD-VHS]Pt.II

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Sharon Walker, Folsom, CA — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:47:22 GMT

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Mike K, Denver — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:49:22 GMT

I was a drug using, booze guzzling, party like a rock star,Pink, that got the whiskey and cocaine thing going.Yeah, who is that woman to judge? You talk about self righteous, dillusional ,and disgusting hypocracy.How many people could rock musicians help if they gave what they spend on drugs to those in need.
Jennifer Hunt, Spokane, Washington (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 11:22 AM)

-----------------------

On behalf of all of First Read, may I be the one to ask: "What the bloody hell are you talking about?"

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Mike OH — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:51:35 GMT

It's amusing to see Clinton supporters kvetch about MSNBC's coverage. Perhaps they have had enough of simply propagating attacks and are actually using their critical thinking skills?
--- John M

It's not the bad press that has me worried so much, Hillary is a big girl and this is what she does for a living, she can handle it. It's the lack of press for Obama.
As a die hard Democrat, I feel I have a right to know what my potential candidate is made of, is Chris Matthews going to hold his hand and protect him from the big mean Republicans too? Let them slug it out and let me see how he handles himself. Even if his response is not to fight back, I'd like to know that, I'd like to see if he can pull it off. Right now he doesn't need to do anything.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

C.B. — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:54:51 GMT

HAPPY HOLIDAYS, HILLARYCLINTON.COM .

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

C.B. — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:56:34 GMT

Open 24 Hrs., for you Chistmas shopping convienence. hillaryclinton.com

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

C.B. — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:57:16 GMT

Drive thru window now open, hillaryclinton.com

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:06:43 GMT

Merry Christmas to all people of good will...

Van

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Sally, Austin, TX — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:10:55 GMT

I am a Democrat, but I think this latest McCain Christmas ad is very effective. On the Democratic side, my favorite XMAS ad is the one with the Obama family, showing their two adorable daughters.

As for the campaign itself, the Clintons are being very - well - Clintonian - in trying to have it both ways. Showing Hillary in a softer mode, while using surrogates like Bob Kerrey to stick knives in Obama, is nauseating. I've read on other sites that undecideds in Iowa are really getting turned off by the Clinton campaign's dirty tricks. Iowans just don't like this kind of politics. Callers from Iowa into CSPAN see through these surrogate attacks.

Obama is leading in Iowa, and has wiped out Hillary's double-digit lead in NH and pulled even! It's looking good for us Obama supporters!

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:12:21 GMT

Richard, do you reeeaallly believe that the other candidate running for Prez are not as driven as Clinton to win? Do you not think they have egos?

You think they all are running because they are just so swell and want to make the world a happy place and if the lose gosh darnit at least they tried their bestest?

Puh-lease. Grow up.

You probably still believe in you know who too.

All pols are the same.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

M@ - Chicago — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:13:25 GMT

The congressmen who did this must be looking to further their careers. How else do you explain their publicly criticizing a fellow democrat about something they know little about aside from whatever the Clinton's handed them. Reflects very poorly on them, but much worse on Hillary.

Add this to the volunteers forwarding the BS Muslim e-mails, Sheehan's drug accusations, the AFSME flier, Bob Kerrey's Muslim slip, Bill's agreeing to the "roll of the dice" statement and you get an idea of how Hillary will run her admin. Everyone else will do her dirty work. Sounds remarkably similar to our current disaster of a president.

Van, while you provide a plethora o f things to be discounted, I'll just pick your quote of Obama politely pointing out Hillary's high negatives. They are citing his possible electability- which by the way the latest Zogby poll contradicts- and Obama is countering with the fact high negatives mean difficult unelectibility. That's not an attack.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Rick,ky — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:15:13 GMT

Diamonds or pearls, what kind of Policy question is that to be answered? The same kind as the PBS Iowa debate for GOP, in which the managing editor for DMR asked for a show of hands on Global warming.Thankfully, Thompson but that baby to rest with his answer. I also watched the CNN thing last night on AC 360, Davis gergon is a very smart man, However, he is wrong on the part of that being a race based comment. ANYONE FALL OFF THE TURNIP TRUCK LATELY?

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Norm Hartz, Fair lawn,NJ. — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:15:43 GMT

The Republican candidates are a collection ofbums, liars and sleaze balls. Other than McCain who i believe is a bit out of touch. Richardson, Biden & Dodd are the class acts for the Dems.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

M@ - Chicago — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:19:17 GMT

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:20:11 GMT

EDITORIAL ENDORSEMENT: In the Democratic primary, Hillary Clinton
12/21/2007
Sentinel staff

Why Clinton

"Face-to-face, she is as personable, passionate and persuasive as any American political figure in recent memory, qualities that should come in handy in both domestic and international forums."

The endorsement can be read here:

http://www.nhelects.com/NHPrimaryArticles.asp?LinkID=117&HTitle=ArticlesTitle

"The Keene Sentinel is an independently owned daily newspaper published in Keene, New Hampshire. It is the fifth oldest continuously published newspaper in the United States, having operated under the Sentinel name since its founding in March, 1799. It publishes seven days a week.

The daily operation includes the online service SentinelSource (http://www.keenesentinel.com) and commercial printing operations.

As of 2004, it had a paid circulation of about 14,000."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keene_Sentinel

Van

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Jennifer Hunt, Spokane. Washington — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:40:19 GMT

Mike in Denver..Please refer to the post before that one.I just can't stop cracking up about that one!Please excuse my mishap...Maybe that is like a painting.It could make sense in ways....LOL ROFL.OH LORD JESUS!Please don't let that be "suggestive in the eyes of some beholders!"

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Mike K, Denver — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:42:36 GMT

Where is the poll that states "44% of the country despises Hillary"....being a bit dramatic, aren't we?
Sean (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 12:22 PM)

-----------------

44% of the public have a negative connotation of her. This translates into 44% of the people not voting for her even if Hell were to freeze. I'll leave the next and final piece of the puzzle to connect your point to mine up to you.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

David Morant Newark Delware — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:53:48 GMT

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Bee, NH — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:56:16 GMT

Folks,

I am out for the year, have a merry christmass

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:07:05 GMT

Van, while you provide a plethora o f things to be discounted, I'll just pick your quote of Obama politely pointing out Hillary's high negatives. They are citing his possible electability- which by the way the latest Zogby poll contradicts- and Obama is countering with the fact high negatives mean difficult unelectibility. That's not an attack.

M@ - Chicago (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 1:13 PM)

lol

Based on your brilliant defense of Obama's politely pointing out that Hillary is unelectable (in his humble and polite opinion.) I really would enjoy you turning the same clear and unbiased eye towards the, "plethora", of "things to be discounted".

Cherry-picking the poll you like and characterizing your candidate's words as polite, and his opponents' as attacks to, "discount" my contention isn't exactly making the strongest case for your point-of-view.

When you consider the context of my original post, and your inability to see the point, or admit to the fact that it is the characterization of the media that was my purpose in posting, you exemplify the very double standard that inspired my thought.

Van

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:08:48 GMT

Hmmm, perhaps it’s time we begin demanding Rudy release his “papers” also!! I’d really love to see what Rudy’s “transparent and open book City Hall” looked like!!

“When a mayor of New York leaves office, little goes out the door but memories — unless he's Rudy Giuliani. Under an unprecedented agreement that didn't become public until after he left office, Giuliani secreted out of City Hall the written, photographic and electronic record of his eight years in office — more than 2,000 boxes.

Along with his own files, the trove included the official records of Giuliani's deputy mayors, his chief of staff, his travel office and Gracie Mansion — the mayor's residence that became a legal battlefront during his caustic divorce.

In a Republican presidential candidates' debate last week, Giuliani asserted: ‘My government in New York City was so transparent that they knew every single thing I did almost every time I did it. ... I can't think of a public figure that's had a more transparent life than I've had.’"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22345820/

Another example of "pot calls kettle"!!

PEACE!!

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Pat Huntington NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:13:04 GMT

Merry Christmas to all the Democrats.

As for the republicans, go eat fruit cake!

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Kato in Des Moines — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:15:48 GMT

Sally in Austin: Yes, you are correct. As a general rule, Iowans don't respond well to negative attacks on other candidates.

As a Biden supporter, I really don't know what I will do if Biden is not viable in my precinct. The negative attacks by both the Clinton and Obama supporters are a big turn off for me. It's gotten to the point where I don't even bother to read the posts from certain people here any more. Lately the Obama folks have been really nasty. Obama was my prefered alternative a few weeks ago, but not any more. I guess I'll just leave the caucus if Biden isn't viable. Funny form of democracy, isn't it?

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:18:09 GMT

Rick,ky (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 12:25 PM)

Actually, I found it. It had nothing to do with Obama whatsoever. It was in reference to a comments blaming Hillary for Bill cheating, and questioning her decision to remain married. I said unless you are willing to let the rest of the country dictate what you do in your own marriage, you should shut the hell up about theirs.

Not very broad at all. Not the most delicate way of putting it, but there it is.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

C.B. — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:19:08 GMT

Hillary Clinton to win Iowa, N.H., S.C. and all that follows. hillaryclinton.com ,come see why.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:19:19 GMT

Obama does have the backing at a ratio of 2-1 of highly educated democrats...
Ron, TX (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 11:52 AM)

I graduated with honors with bachelors in political science. I graduated with honors from law school.

I don't support Barack Obama.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

vanreuter, NY NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:21:56 GMT

When Sen. Obama first said he will have Talks with Iran,and other Countries that may not be on Our List of Friends. All the Candidates GOP & DEM said it showed Sen. Obama lack of Experience to be a Leader. Now a few Months later all the Canidates GOPs & DEMs are saying they now will have talks with these Nations."

For you and all others with short memories;

"Last night, a YouTube questioner asked: “In 1982, Anwar Sadat traveled to Israel, a trip that resulted in a peace agreement that has lasted ever since. In the spirit of that type of bold leadership, would you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?”

In response Barack Obama said: “I would. And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them -- which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration – is ridiculous.” [CNN Debate, 7/24/07]

Immediately following the debate, Obama’s top advisers sought to clarify their candidate’s comments. David Axelrod claimed Obama didn’t mean any such meetings would actually take place. “He said that he would be willing to talk,” Axelrod explained. “And what he meant was, as a government, he’d be willing and eager to initiate those kinds of talks, just as during the Cold War there were low-level discussions and mid-level discussions between us and the Soviet Union and so on. So he was not promising summits with all of those leaders.” [National Review, 7/24/07 ]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0707/Message_wars.html

How soon they forget. There a HUGE difference between opening DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS and PERSONALLY meeting with the leaders of CUBA etc.
EVERY democrat running has always been in favor of reversing the Bush administration's dreadful foreign policy, but only one said that they WOULD MEET PERSONALLY with the leaders of those countries.

Here's what the person many here say would say anything to anyone to get elected said to the youtube questioner, who was in the audience;

In response to the same question, Hillary Clinton said: “Well, I will not promise to meet with the leaders of these countries during my first year. I will promise a very vigorous diplomatic effort because I think it is not that you promise a meeting at that high a level before you know what the intentions are. I don't want to be used for propaganda purposes. I don't want to make a situation even worse. But I certainly agree that we need to get back to diplomacy, which has been turned into a bad word by this administration. And I will purse very vigorous diplomacy.

“And I will use a lot of high-level presidential envoys to test the waters, to feel the way. But certainly, we're not going to just have our president meet with Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez and, you know, the president of North Korea, Iran and Syria until we know better what the way forward would be. [CNN Debate, 7/24/07]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0707/Message_wars.html

If you're going to make a claim, it always pays to research that claim first.

Van

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:22:16 GMT

44% of the public have a negative connotation of her. This translates into 44% of the people not voting for her even if Hell were to freeze. I'll leave the next and final piece of the puzzle to connect your point to mine up to you.
Mike K, Denver (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 1:42 PM)

Awfully confident in that assumption, aren't you? I know people who have told me Hillary would not be their first choice; they would, however, vote for her against the Republican nominee. A "negative connotation" is not the same thing as "no way in Hell". Aside from which, things can change an awful lot over the course of 10-11 months.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:53:04 GMT

As a Biden supporter, I really don't know what I will do if Biden is not viable in my precinct. The negative attacks by both the Clinton and Obama supporters are a big turn off for me. It's gotten to the point where I don't even bother to read the posts from certain people here any more. Lately the Obama folks have been really nasty. Obama was my prefered alternative a few weeks ago, but not any more. I guess I'll just leave the caucus if Biden isn't viable. Funny form of democracy, isn't it?
Kato in Des Moines (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 2:15 PM)

I share your dilemma, Kato. I believe in Biden 110% and there is no other candidate that I have even close to as much faith in as him. I'm just hoping my precinct feels the same way, otherwise I am not sure what I will do.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Sean — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:05:51 GMT

Carrie-
I am with you about the 44% issue. I used to really not like Hillary - until I read Gail Sheehy's book about her. After it, I had a newfound respect for her.

To your comment about second choices. I would have voted for Obama, but not sure anymore due to the people on here who trash Hillary in his name.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:47:02 GMT

I share your dilemma, Kato. I believe in Biden 110% and there is no other candidate that I have even close to as much faith in as him. I'm just hoping my precinct feels the same way, otherwise I am not sure what I will do.
Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 2:53 PM)
Sean (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 3:05 PM)

Ditto to both!! It's become disgraceful!! I'm also a Biden supporter!!

PEACE!!

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Frank "Grimey" Grimes, Springfield, USA — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:02:35 GMT

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all (Rep and Dem)...and even you Pat from Huntington, NY. I'm a Republican, but I think I'll skip the fruit cake. The chocolate cream pie at Christmas dinner is another story though... ;)

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Frank "Grimey" Grimes, Springfield, USA — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:04:32 GMT

Jerry, your Kucinich multiple choice question had me in tears laughing.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:13:07 GMT

" '.....and remember folks; using COCAINE doesn't count!
Sierra, SF...'

This is a perfect example of the Clinton campaign
(van) stirring up 'racially tinged' issues ....."

Ah, 'scuse me there Sierra.
But, I have to ask this question; how is Barrack Obama's use of cocaine a "racially tinged" issue, and if it is, then why did you bring it up?
Obama was stupid enough not only to use cocaine, but to publicly admitt he did "a little blow."
That's not Van's fault, and it surely isn't a "racial" issue.
I knew this was coming.
The next thing they're going to try and put on us is that we're "racist" if we don't vote for Obama.
That's what's coming next, bet the house on it.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Ron, TX — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:31:14 GMT

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

MK,MO — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:40:40 GMT

why don't hillary and rudy combine campaigns since both of them are intent on making the rich richer and the poor poorer? both consider the middle class an unnecessary nuisance. a two class system of haves and have nots would be their idea of utopia here in the good ol’ u.s.a., why would anyone that works for a paycheck vote for them?

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

raf — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:04:36 GMT

"Dynasties belong in sports, not politics." Jeb, Florida

Then please explain why you keep voting for the Bushes.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Dot, Illinois — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:32:02 GMT

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

CitizenJ — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:40:44 GMT

You should have went to a better school...
Ron, TX (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 4:31 PM)

-----------------------------------------------

Um....I think you mean you should have GONE to a better school.

Dot, Illinois (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 5:32 PM)

Haha

Happy Holidays - a Christmas for some of us, and a Festivus for the rest of us.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

--NSMSNBC — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:04:34 GMT

*HOLIDAY POLITICAL AD REVIEW ...
--I’m going to try really, really hard to not be biased more or less. The actual ratings are honest.

THE REPUBLICANS:
Fred Thompson: I have not seen an ad from Mr. Thompson, but I'm sure that is only because he was too busy wrapping his trophy wife possession as a last-ditch effort to woo voters, all while watching re-runs of his favorite past Democratic President, Jeb Bartlett. Personally, I preferred either Andrew Shepherd or Thomas Whitmore.

John McCain: One can never really get enough seeing a tortured vet recovering in a bed during the Christmas season. And for that alone, I offer my stamp of Good for this ad. I say when you got a theme that works, use it over and over. New Years: torture, Ground Hogs Day: torture, St. Patrick’s Day: torture, Mother’s Day: torture, Thanksgiving: torture, and the list goes on. It also reminded us through the esoteric use of a stick and sand that Christians are happy to torture those all over this world.

Mike Huckabee: Clearly a ploy for the Christian Right. I admire Huckabee’s commitment to the end for Christian Christmas, never once mentioning Jewish Christmas; Muslim Christmas; Atheist Christmas—strangely the most fun of all with Santa, presents and no Church; or the holiday we Pagans have grown to love, the New Reformed Druids of America Christmas. Christmas is even VP Dick Cheney’s favorite holiday, because the cold weather of winter means he does not have to worry about his heart thawing, until of course this ad hit the air, because a combination of that red sweater, lit cross and trademark smile is like hot cocoa for the soul. For the general population—mainly us New Reformed Druids of America—this ad is an abysmal failure, yet it does manage to reach his target audience who see Jesus in everything from trees, to rocks, to the crucifixes hanging around their necks or on the cover of their pocket bibles. And it was just controversial enough with the subliminal “Paul is dead” to be broadcast non-stop on all three cable news networks; thusly it got the message out. And I give it my only heartfelt gold standard of Christmas political ads, two thumbs up with a smile.

Mitt Romney: I have not seen a Christmas poltical ad from the Romney campaign, whether it exists, I can not know. I am, therefore, capable of coming to one and only one conclusion: Mormons do not celebrate holidays, other than of course the 2002 Olympic games.

Ron Paul: I’ve actually seen this ad, very authentic just like the candidate. However, nobody else has seen this ad unless of course they are part of the sphere of blogs, where like everything else R.(wouldn’t it be great if his middle initial were the letter ‘I’).P. does is lit up on the internet like my Christmas tree wrapped in 500 light strands. Because the true test of being a Republican candidate with 12 million dollars is prove just how cheap you. This ad fits, I give his ad, average.

Rudy Giuliani: Even before seeing this political advertisement I ranked it as an abysmal failure. If you're going to try humor go all in, but with the writers strike, it's probably best not to try at all, because having a store-bought Santa write your jokes, not the best idea. My best advice to Rudy G., stick with what you are best at and follow R. Nixon's election non-personable strategy sans breaking and entering and such. And I also question his choice in the red vest. It looks like somebody took Hillary Clinton's "This pant suit is asbestos" comment just a little too seriously. As a Republican always trying to one up a Democrat, his sweater vest was clearly and literally made from asbestos. Possibly a ploy to make the American public feel sorry for a man with lung cancer. To say the least he was, following the making of this commercial, sent to the hospital. Was it simply a case of coincidence or a case of bird flu? Still, I can't argue with his criticism of his own ad: miserable with an uncontrollable urge to vomit.

Tom Tancredo: Yes, he dropped out to endorse Mitt Romney to champion illegal human beings in his absence. I’ve actually never seen any candidate more happy to be done running for President. We wish him our nsMSNBC best wishes for the holidays. If he needs any help putting up decorations in Colorado, I would suggest asking Mitt Romney to help find him some cheap labor to help around his home.

THE DEMOCRATS:
Barack Obama: I realize that diversity polls well, and I can’t remember a commercial involving kids where there wasn’t a Hispanic boy, a black boy or girl, an Asian girl, a white girl with bad teeth with a nice smile and a white boy with shaggy hair. But he took affirmative action to a whole new level casting an attractive black wife with two lovely black daughters. It is also evident that Barack Obama never misses an opportunity to take a subtle dig, so subtle that nobody picks up on it, at Hillary Clinton by emphasizing the one thing he has that she doesn’t, a model American family. Yes, he captured the secular, stereotypical true meaning of Christmas: family. Yet, without the ad being controversial, how does he expect to compete with Britney Spears in a fat suit and a white beard on YouTube? Still despite those shortfalls, the two daughter actresses were amazingly cute satisfying both the “Merry Christmas” and “Happy holidays” crowds. I offer him a rousing above average.

John Edwards: You must admire this man’s ability to stay on his populist message. I know as I wake up from by four-post, gold-incrusted bed; travel down the six flights of stairs of my mansion; through the garage past my BMWs, Mercedes and Lexi; through the game room; through the in-house movie theater to my 20 foot, perfectly manicured tree to open all the presents given to me, Me, ME from people who I judge solely by the price tag of the gift given, I’m really thinking about the poor people who can’t afford Christmas. It just makes me feel that much better knowing that I am that much better than everybody else. Thank you John Edwards for reminding me of the true meaning of Christmas, the wealth I have acquired off the backs of others thanks to Republican rule. Since I haven’t seen the ad, I will let you or the floods of poor people rate it.

Hillary Clinton: This ad starts a scissors perfectly cutting wrapping paper, followed by a perfectly decorated tree and perfectly wrapped gifts with perfectly written cards, and that is the reason I will be voting for Martha Stewart February 5th or at least the candidate who looks the closest to her in appearance. [I won’t allude to the devious Chris Matthews’ comparison of Hillary to ‘Don’t cry for me Argentina’ Evita about this ad, but I would have liked to see the heartfelt Hillary talking honestly about her real non-poll driven Christmas plans (which she has done in the past), probably glad for a break from campaigning]. I applaud her use of red lipstick with her green eyes, Christmas colors. I know with Hillary as President, we could have somebody who is not color blind in the Oval office, finally a woman. Neither good, nor bad, on message, but not heartfelt, this ad gives me the ability to see both sides of every issue (like Hillary), so what can I give it other than not bad and not good: average perhaps, maybe, but I might change my mind tomorrow.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO THE REST OF YOU!!!

--Nicholas

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

--NSMsnbc — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:03:34 GMT

Wait one minute, I went there ... Here, this one is redone.

Hillary Clinton: This ad starts a scissors perfectly cutting wrapping paper, followed by perfectly folded bows and perfectly wrapped gifts with perfectly written cards, and that is the reason I will be voting for Martha Stewart February 5th or at least the candidate who looks the closest to her in appearance. And what little boy or girl wouldn't rather have alternative energy and middle-class tax breaks as opposed to a Wii or riding lessions? I also applaud her use of red lipstick complimentary to her green eyes--let me re-run the ad: yes they're green, Christmas colors. I know with Hillary as President, we could finally have a woman in the Oval office, someone who is not color blind like the the 43 previous men. Neither good, nor bad, on message, but not heartfelt, so I give it a perfect average.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO THE REST OF YOU!!!

--Nicholas

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Bunny, Winston-Salem, NC — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:37:41 GMT

NSMSNBC---you want a Christmas ad from Thompson---be glad he's not pandering, proselytizing,or giving away your tax money as "gifts." An honest man for all seasons, including Christmas. Way to go, Fred.

Have a wonderful Holiday everyone.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

C.B. — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 01:25:21 GMT

Hello... hillaryclinton.com

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Nashville_fan — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 01:58:40 GMT

To all who would not vote for a candidate based on the comments posted on an anonymous blog - you're kidding, right?

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Carla, Bethany Beach, Delaware — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 02:05:04 GMT

To all of you Biden supporters who don't think he'll get 15% and are wondering what you will do, stop worrying! I predict Biden will come in third. I think Obama will win, Edwards will be second, and Biden will be a close third. Hillary will be fourth, if she even makes the 15% cut-off. Biden could very well go on to be Obama's VP. Obama/Biden has a nice sound to it, don't you think? A dream ticket for the Democrats!

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:58:27 GMT

NSMSNBC: That post was particularly good. As a member of the First Church of New Reformed Druids of America, in my city, I have to tell you that our pastor, LHAO. He told me to wish you a Merry Kwanza.
As you would guess, he and his momma are for Obama.
Obama '08

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Adam, Sacramento — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:09:53 GMT

First read I believe you made a typo.

"Whoa. Is this a last-ditch effort by Richardson to become THE anti-war candidate?"

I think you meant to put clinton where Richardson's name is. Richardson has quite consistently been an Anti War candidate.

To all of you that feel Biden is most qualified. Ask him how he didn't see through bush's lies on the intelligence case to enter iraq? He had a private briefing where he got to ask questions and last time I checked no intelligence official has been brought up on perjury charges for lying to hillary or him. Did he ask the wrong questions or get the right answers.

Putin, China none of them will be giving him as easy information to see through as that flim flam case.

I tend to agree Biden is extremely knowledgable which just makes the case that he didn't see through the bush deception less credible. I did, how many of you did? Biden apparently didn't to give him the benefit of the doubt.

If he didn't how can we trust him to review future intelligence reports and make good decisions and see through errors to ask the right questions for clarification. What was credible about an arab nationalist giving a nuke should he get one to an arab fundamentalist. Biden failed us as if he had come out in 2002 and called bush on the serious questions unanswered in the report he could have reshaped opinion. I'm sorry I simply can't trust him he had unrivaled access, outstanding base knowledge and was fooled.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Susie Trustworthy — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:49:18 GMT

Everyone vote for Huck. Wouldn't it be great to have a President that speaks directly to God? He ran Arkansas his way, and he can run the USA his way, because after God gives him instructions he then knows what's best for all of us.

First thoughts: Calling Rudy

Joan Michaels, Moline IL — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:03:57 GMT