Bhutto fallout

squintz, philly, pa — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:31:27 GMT

...and the political press tries DESPERATELY to make this about them.

Seems to me that you all are the ones "politicizing" Bhutto's death, not the candidates.

Huckabee's response is totally nuts. And not very empathetic for a minister.

Bhutto fallout

Larry, Baltimore MD — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:31:40 GMT

Experience is irrelevant. How much foriegn policy experience do Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld have? How come their ;experience' hasn't led to better US foriegn policy?

Obama was right on Iraq and he was right on Pakistan

Bhutto fallout

CitizenJ — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:35:58 GMT

Yes, let's base our choice of candidate on who knew Benazir Bhutto better. If that's going to be the case, then we have to choose Biden.

Bhutto fallout

Nashville_fan — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:38:37 GMT

I don't think that anyone honestly believes that David Axelrod meant that Hillary Clinton is responsible for Bhutto's death in Pakistan.

I also don't think that anyone believes that this tragic event magically morphs Senator Clinton into the most experienced candidate to handle this crisis.

Whoever is elected President is going to face many tough situations, so the question is, how have they handled difficult situations in the past?

Bhutto fallout

Mike, Austin, TX — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:38:57 GMT

Huckabee is a moron. and McCain's pitch makes no sense. If being president requires being an expert then he fails his own test. He's no expert in housing or healthcare, certainly not on tax policy, immigration, or campaign finance. I agree with Mitt that, if being a foreign policy expert was all it takes (I don't concede the idea that McCain is a "foreign policy expert," but for the sake of argument) then we could go yank any number of people out of the State Department to be president. We need executive leadership to make quick, informed decisions. To me it's back to Mitt and Rudy.

Bhutto fallout

Shadow, Hamden, CT — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:43:54 GMT

It's bizarre to think that this might help Clinton. Obama, after all, got tons of criticism from Clinton and her supporters months ago for being too tough on Pakistan and too critical of Musharraf; his argument for over five years, suggesting we stop being distracted by Iraq and Iran and focus on Afghanistan and Pakistan, rings especially true today.

What's more, the platform Benazir Bhutto was running on involved taking a harder line on Islamic extremists in the mountains than Musharraf did, the very same stance Obama was criticized by Clinton for over the summer.

Therefore, in a factual analysis, every aspect of this benefits Obama's case and hurts Clinton's. The fact that Clinton knew Bhutto is irrelevant when one considers that Obama was the one who actually backed up her policies.

Bhutto fallout

POLpursun — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:44:19 GMT

For Clinton, "Bhutto's death helped underscore the line she has been driving home for months -- about who is best suited to lead the nation at a time of international peril. In her comments Thursday, Clinton described Bhutto in terms Obama (D-Ill.) could not: as a fellow mother, a pioneering woman following in a man's footsteps, and a longtime peer on the world stage.”

“The differing reactions of Clinton and Obama to the assassination crystallized the debate between the two just a week before Iowans will decide the first contest in the battle for the Democratic presidential nomination."

This is down to the numbers. If a sufficient number of the Democratic caucus goers in Iowa have the perspective which realizes just how much this vaunted Clinton experience should be discounted and that she is just not leader material (she is NOT inspirational and the example of her campaign, particularly after her supposed coronation appeared threatened, is most unattractive) then there may be something to follow after Jan. 3rd. If not, then not.

Bhutto fallout

Ledlie Lawton,IA — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:53:51 GMT

I for one agree with Richard Wolfe. How can one woman or man protect us only God can. If we keep on doing th same things in Washington we will continue on etting the same results. It is time for change.

Bhutto fallout

Ron, TX — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:53:58 GMT

Axelrod never BLAMED Clinton, i.e. he never claimed nor did he ever come close to saying "Hillary caused Bhutto to die". THAT is absurd. He never said that, but expect Hillary to try and run with it anyway, she loves to relish in lies and dishonesty.

There is NO DOUBT however that Iraq DID distract from Pakistan and Afghanistan. Bhutto's death is a direct result of terrorists, not of Clinton. It is time for America to stop getting distracted by Iraq and go to fight the REAL enemies in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

We could have aided democracy in Pakistan by getting it right the first time, and going to war THERE and in Afghanistan instead of in Iraq. But instead, Hillary Clinton and others were 'tricked' by Republicans into voting for the "Authorization of the Use of Military Force against Iraq" 2002 legislation. She claims she thought she was voting for "diplomacy"... I guess she didn't read the legislation's name...

http://thepage.time.com/axelrod-on-bhutto-assassination/

Barack got Iraq right.
"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars."- Obama, October, 2002

And once again, Barack got it right the first time with Pakistan.
"Remarks of Senator Obama: The War We Need to Win" - August 1, 2007
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/08/01/remarks_of_senator_obama_the_w_1.php

While Clinton was calling Obama naive for saying he would bomb terrorists in Pakistan if the government failed to act, Clinton was IGNORING her "good friend" Bhutto's comments in August 2007, less than four months before she died:
"But the issue that I would like to stress is that Barack Obama also said, if Pakistan won't act. And that's the critical issue, that the government has to act. And the government has to act to protect Pakistan's own serenity and integrity, its own respect, and to understand that if it creates a vacuum, then others aren't going to just twiddle their thumbs while militants freely move across the border."

And THAT IS REALITY. No games playing involved. Someone REALLY DIED. They were assassinated by terrorists, terrorists from Pakistan, not Iraq or Iran or North Korea. From Pakistan. And to try and DENY that US foreign policy like the baseless War on Iraq affects what happens abroad ignores the REALITY of how we affect the world. This isn't just about words in a newspaper or giving speeches to win a caucaus. This is about WHO WE ARE and HOW WE AFFECT THE WORLD. Games-playing is voting in favor of the Iraq war because the public opinion polls tell you to, or deciding you no longer like the Iraq war because opinion polls tell you to, or deciding that you should vote on escalating rhetoric with Iran on the Kyl-Lieberman bill because opinion polls tell you to.

This is a DEFINING MOMENT. It is VERY real. The American Public better start paying attention.

Bhutto fallout

diane — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:54:15 GMT

Give me a break. HRC had tea with Bhutto. So what.
You guys are always trying to push the phony experience thing with Clinton when in fact she is possessed of incredibly poor judgment, has tired and failed thinking and is an agent of the establishment that brought us the disasterous foreign policy we now have.
I wish the press would stop trying to promote this opportunistic corporate shill who has no proof for her absurd, and the presses as well, claims.
Barack Obama may not have been first lady but, he has served in office longer than Clinton and his fresh ideas are always being proved right.
Even Bhutto agreed with him and yet no one in the media is talking about this. They only push the Clinton spin.

Bhutto fallout

TW, NY — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:57:34 GMT

Anyone willing to bet that if Chris Matthews brings up Axlerod's comments, that he will defend Axlerod and Obama. God forbid the, can't do anything wrong, Obama campaign could say something stupid.

Bhutto fallout

Ron, IN — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:00:01 GMT

Barack Obama was right about this. Iraq has done more to destabilize the region than most think. We dont need a president who has had tea with foreign leaders in the past. We need a president who will stand up for America: its values, goals, aspirations, and dreams. Barack Obama is that president. Change the way we do things, or we'll keep making the same dumb mistakes.

Barack Obama '08 - For the strength of our country!

Bhutto fallout

Kellie Aites, Omaha, NE — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:02:03 GMT

I was very upset to hear about Benazir Bhutto's death. She was a strong woman fighting a never ending battle against terrorism that took her father and probably her brothers.
I feel the United States should focus on what is going on here; gas prices, our boarders, mortgage companies going bankrupt, and crime.
The United Nations should be stepping up to the plate to deal with Pakistan and the worlds problems. We need to support the UN but not fund every little endeavor that is on the table. We make the money why can't we us it for our nation?

Bhutto fallout

AC, Boston MA — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:12:31 GMT

The truth is this benefits NO-ONE!! This is one occasion where one can safely rely on the much talked about American voter ignorance and indifference to situations beyond the borders. Why should this be any different?? Clinton talking 'about a fellow mother'....so????? How many Americans knew this woman?? Has foreign policy ever decided the elections??

Bhutto fallout

AC, Boston MA — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:14:55 GMT

Agreed also with the poster who thinks it's the press politicizing the event. On a serious,some in the media did seem shaken by the event( Matthews, Blitzer)

Bhutto fallout

Rick,ky — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:24:38 GMT

Here's experience for ya, Hillary & Edwards voted to invade a soverign country ( Iraq). Here's judgement, Barack called it right the 1st time without the so-called experience of these other 2 candidates.As someone posted yesterday, How many times does it take before people realize, his Judgement has been right on so many issues that this so-called experience has been wrong on?

" DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER "

Bhutto fallout

Mark Lewis Davenport IA — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:28:12 GMT

Talk about running a dirty negative sick campaign…. Obamas chief strategist campaign advisor, mintes after the Bhutto murder tried to link Senator Clinton!!!…talk about desperation in a camp!!!! Later, Axelrod backed away from his earlier statements. This obamacamp is sick, great example of Obamas people skills in selecting a chief strategist.
DES MOINES – Sen. Barack Obama directed fierce shots at his two chief rivals, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) and former Sen. John Edwards (N.C.), as he delivered his new stump speech at the Scottish Rite Masonic Temple. Obama’s criticisms were just another example of his reneging on his campaign promise of running a different kind of campaign. Obama campaign also spent Thursday continuing to criticize Edwards for a labor-backed 527 group that is running ads on his behalf. Obama campaign fired off emails to supporters entitled “What’s really happening in Iowa.”This guy looks pretty sad.
After The New York Times published a story Thursday reporting that Obama voted “present” — instead of yes or no — almost 130 times,
Major doubts over Barack Obama’s foreign policy credentials were expressed on both sides of the Atlantic last night, after it emerged that he had made only one brief official visit to London – and none elsewhere in Western Europe or Latin America. they underlined this message by pointing to reports showing that Mr Obama had failed to convene a single policy meeting of the Senate European subcommittee, of which he is chairman. There was also strikingly robust criticism from an independent Washington think-tank about a 'disconcerting void' over transatlantic relations in Mr Obama’s foreign policy, as well as from a former British Minister for Europe. "Mr Obama’s advisers claim he has an 'intuitive grasp' of world affairs. Like G. Bush
"Denis MacShane, a Minister for Europe in Mr Blair’s Government, said he had been troubled by comments Mr Obama had made on the Middle East peace process and the prospect of military action in Pakistan. He added: 'A lot of people are concerned that international policy is not his strongest suit. Obama turned down requests from other visiting foreign dignitaries, such as an Italian opposition leader who was told that the senator was in 'presidential mode' and only seeing leaders of countries." Angry Chinese officials are taking aim at Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama over his statement that he would 'stop the import of all toys from China.'
"The Illinois senator’s remarks, which came at an Iowa campaign stop Wednesday, were 'unobjective, unreasonable and unfair,' Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang told reporters at a Thursday briefing. 'Imagine if the quality of American products was not 100 percent up to standard. Could we take that as a reason to totally ban U.S. products?' We need to avoid electing another president like Bush who is not experienced in foreign policy.
___

Bhutto fallout

Cynthia, IA — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:32:37 GMT

You Guys don't seem to get it.

It wasn't a lack of experience that got us in the mess we are in in the middle east. it was a failute to understand the culture and the impact of our actions. Americans are so myopic. We think the world revolves around us.

The MSM has loved to harp on Obama's Muslim (he is not muslim) family and his up bringing in Indonesia...but you fail to connect the dots when it really mattered. Obama stated in 2004 his experience with growing up in that culture was one of the factors in his oppossing the Iraq war. He knew that what and how we were doing it wouldn't work because of the tribal culture there. Watching it growing up.

Well last night I FINALLY GOT IT...Obama is the person that this country needs in the 21st century. There are over a billion people in this world who are not Americans...until we can relate to other cultures we will keep making the same mistakes over and over again. We can have all the tea that we want, that is not the experience we need. Anyone who is President can pick up the phone and call another world leader but not everyone can understand and appreciate the cultural differences, and more importantly have the people believe that you can, having spent sometime even if it was childhood and having relatives in that culture. What other candidate has this EXPERIENCE. Yes his time is now. I'm caucusing for Obama

Bhutto fallout

High on Change — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:41:43 GMT

How stupidly typical of the media to try and frame this event as a defining moment for the presidential candidates and completely fabricate a storyline around their various responses. Ooooh...these remarks seem cold and stiff. Those remarks reflect such warmth and experience. Quick, let's check our gut.

For all the complaints of Chris Matthews beating up on Clinton lately, he was the first one last night to jump back on the old "experience" bandwagon. I thought I was going to throw up. You know, the world is pretty much a hell hole at the moment thanks to all the brilliant conventional wisdom of the experienced set.

Maybe we should change the constituion and let Bush stay for 4 more years. Afterall, he's obviously the most "experienced" of all. Apparently that's what counts. Brains, judgement, instincts, flexibility, the power to lead and inspire change? Not important.

Bhutto fallout

--NSMsnbc — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:52:59 GMT

*** Politicize this: I don't buy the politicization argument. I want to hear what the candidates say, Clinton too. There is under a week to go, and if the candidates can't fit this terrible event with their message, that's censorship. Nobody thinks anybody in America is responsible for this attack. The responsibility lies with Pakistan. Still, on the other hand, if we hadn't turned our focus from the region that was breeding terrorists (i.e. going into Iraq, which Sen. Clinton did vote for). No, it is not Sen. Clinton's fault, but there is a link between her vote and the instability of Pakistan. To point that out is, in my view, appropriate. Then you got Richardson trying to make the situation even more unstable, sheesh!

Shadow, I disagree, this is beneficial for Clinton, because she is a 'safer', better-known candidate. When one's life is unstable, a person does things that comfort him or her. For example, eat a tub of ice cream. That doesn't mean its healthy or the best choice, but we do it. There's that and the fact that in crisis, we keep turning to the hawks to protect us. It is crazy that being a hawk boosts a person's 'experience' and wishing diplomacy does not. Clinton is clearly more of a hawk.

*** Here comes Richardson: Thank you Gov. Richardson for being a shining beacon of how experience does not directly translate into judgment. Go Biden!

Bhutto fallout

jkojs, Raliegh, NC — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:56:43 GMT

NO more Clinton dynasty and corrupted Health Industry.
Its time to end 20 years of Clinton/Bush political dynasty.

!!! ITS TIME FOR CHANGE !!!

BARACK OBAMA WAS RIGHT ON IRAQ.

BARACK OBAMA WAS RIGHT ON IRAN.

BARACK OBAMA WAS RIGHT ON PAKISTAN.

BARACK OBAMA HAS RIGHT JUDGEMENT FROM THE BEGINNING.

BARACK OBAMA's JUDGEMENT TRIUMPHS OVER HILLARY'S EXPERIENCE.

!!! VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA !!!

Bhutto fallout

Douglas Findlay — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:59:04 GMT

Just what we need ... more meddling in the internal affairs of another country. How would we have felt if the Soviets were trying to sort out our internal problems after the JFK assassination?

We have got to stop this obsessive meddling! No to isolationism, but YES to non-interventionism. End the empire building. Let Pakistanis resolve an internal Pakistani problem.

Why isn't there coverage of Ron Paul on this issue?

Bhutto fallout

Tuck,Realityville, KS — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:59:11 GMT

Barak Obama DID NOT VOTE AGAINST the war, but he VOTED FOR FULL FUNDING>

Bhutto fallout

mike oh — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:59:15 GMT

Bhutto fallout

Mark G. — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:06:48 GMT

Bill Clinton was president when Musharreff seized power from a democratically leader in a military coup. Being that Hillary was the face of US foreign policy at that time, where was she then? Why didn't she support democracy in Pakistan? Why didn't she deride the actions of Musharreff?

Bhutto fallout

Mr. Unite Us — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:13:11 GMT

Thursday, December 27, 2007

Bhutto's Reaction To Obama's Comment on Military Force

Benazir Bhutto, when asked about Barack Obama's statement that he would use military force on Pakistani soil without authorization from that government, at a Council on Foreign Relations event in August:

QUESTIONER: You may have covered that, what I was going to ask you next, but let me try it anyhow.

We had quite an interesting, and indeed still are, mini-debate here politically between two — initially two of the Democratic aspirants for presidents, and it spread now across party lines. And Barack Obama kicked it off by saying, "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will." That's a direct quote from a recent speech of his. What is your reaction to that?

BHUTTO: Well, I wouldn't like the United States to violate Pakistan's sovereignty with unauthorized military operations. But the issue that I would like to stress is that Barack Obama also said, if Pakistan won't act. And that's the critical issue, that the government has to act. And the government has to act to protect Pakistan's own serenity and integrity, its own respect, and to understand that if it creates a vacuum, then others aren't going to just twiddle their thumbs while militants freely move across the border.

I think General Musharraf did the right thing recently in admitting that militants are using our soil, but he said the army has nothing to do with it. But nonetheless, the issue for me is that we cannot cede parts of Pakistani territory to anybody; not just the Taliban, to anybody. That in Pakistan we have one army, one police, one constitution, one government. We cannot allow parallel armies, parallel militias, parallel laws and parallel command structures. Today it's not just the intelligence services, who were previously called a state within a state. Today it's the militants who are becoming yet another little state within the state, and this is leading some people to say that Pakistan is on the slippery slope of being called a failed state. But this is a crisis for Pakistan, that unless we deal with the extremists and the terrorists, our entire state could founder.

Terrorism is loathsome everywhere it strikes, but today's bombing really sticks in the craw. Someone evil in that region just silenced a voice that could have done a lot of good for that country.

12/27 09:52 AM

Bhutto fallout

squintz, philly, pa — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:18:57 GMT

mike oh - Yes, and now he's been President for 7 years. That's the experience High on Change was referring to. And, it was a joke, so, relax.

Also, if you wish to critique another poster's age, maturity, or intelligence, the case is stronger if you spell the big words right.

Bhutto fallout

Matt, Washington D.C. — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:26:18 GMT

Parade Magazine will be publishing an interview with Benazir Buhtto on January 6th and this is the most interesting part:

What would you like to tell President Bush? I ask this riddle of a woman.

She would tell him, she replies, that propping up Musharraf's government, which is infested with radical Islamists, is only hastening disaster. "I would say, 'Your policy of supporting dictatorship is breaking up my country.' I now think al-Qaeda can be marching on Islamabad in two to four years."

The interview is here:

http://www.parade.com/benazir_bhutto_interview.html

Bhutto fallout

KI HOUSTON — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:34:21 GMT

YEA , CHUCK , MARK AND DOMENICO , WHY DOSENT ANYBODY ON TV POINT OUT THAT BHUTTO AGREAD WITH OBAMA . BUT THEY PUT THE CLINTON SPIN THAT THIS SHOWS HER EXPERENICE . SEEMS LIKE IF A PERSON OF THIS STATUE MAKES A PUBLIC STATMENT THAT AGREES WITH ANY OF THE CANDIDATES ON THIS ISSUE SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO LITE . ONCE AGIAN , DO YOU GUYS HAVE NO SHAME

Bhutto fallout

BionicWoman, Tucson, Az — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:38:57 GMT

I don't think that most of you guys posting get it. Bill and Hillary know all these people in the crux of the Middle East problems and by putting them back in office it is a signal of what can be expected. Moreover, everyone in the world likes Bill. It will make it easier to negotiate.

We may want change - but we can't really afford to focus on this at the expense of foreign threats. It may not be the time to straighten out Washington. There is too much else to deal with right now.

I like Biden - I think he would be a great Secretary of State. But, right now, I will feel a lot better with Bill Clinton back at the helm.

Bhutto fallout

Steve, Hartford, CT — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:40:07 GMT

Mike oh: Been there, done that, screwed it up, you mean. Hillary was WRONG on Iraq. She was WRONG to criticize Obama for his speech on foreign policy where he said that we should take out terrorist targets if Musharraf won't act. Bhutto AGREED with Obama on that. You try to compare Obama to Bush, but that's ridiculous--Bush did not demonstrate good judgement at all. Bush made a bunch of vague promises he never kept and took questions only from supporters. Obama has made specific policy goals and has taken any question voters care to ask him. Moreover, he PREDICTED THE IRAQ QUAGMIRE long before it happened. Even BEFORE we on the far left had begun talking about "Vietnam all over again" (and I admit, it was mostly a knee-jerk reaction to the idea of another war), Obama had already made the right call.

It's too late for Bhutto, but it's not too late for the world. Obama in '08!

Bhutto fallout

Mr. Unite Us — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:40:11 GMT

REPORTER: But looking ahead, does the assassination put on the front burner foreign policy credentials in the closing days?

AXELROD: Well, it puts on the table foreign policy judgment, and that's a discussion we welcome. Barack Obama had the judgment to oppose the war in Iraq, and he warned at the time it would divert us from Afghanistan and Al Qaeda, and now we see the effect of that. Al Qaeda's resurgent, they're a powerful force now in Pakistan, they may have been involved — we've been here, so I don't know whether the news has been updated, but there's a suspicion they may have been involved in this. I think his judgment was good. Sen. Clinton made a different judgment, so let's have that discussion.

Barack Obama supports Axelrods response to question.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/obama_controversy_over_aides_r.html

I agree, Al Qaeda has been allowed to grow and fester in Pakistan, while we were distracted in Iraq. Six years after 3,000 Americans were killed in 9-11. Obama took a stand against the lack of action by Musharaff and Bush against the people that attacked us. He was ridiculed and called naive. In reality he demonstrated sound judgment and foresight. Not exactly what sure foreign policy experience Bush or Hillary Clinton had. I do know Cheney and Rumsfeld have plenty of foreign policy experience, but they also demonstrated poor judgment.

Bill Clinton had plenty of experience but poor judgment proved detrimental to his presidency,
and the country.

Bhutto fallout

Susan, Tampa, FL — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:49:38 GMT

Let me get this straight. Anne Kornblut of the Wash. Post is saying that because the courageous P.M. Bhutto was a woman, mother, etc. that this somehow should convey into an advantage for Hillary because she is a woman and mother?? Huh?? Hillary is Hillary. SHE should be judged on HER record, not given some boost simply because another woman was tragically killed. This is the most blatantly convaluted attempt yet, by the media, to promote Mrs. Clinton. She was a First Lady who knew Mrs. Bhutto. Nancy Reagan knew Gorbachev. Laura Bush knows Tony Blair. The NY Times said Wed. that Hillary gained no foreign policy expertise while First Lady. She didn't even have a security clearance!! This is frankly embarrassing what some in the press, like Ms. Kornblut, are trying to do by somehow trying to give Hillary an advantage because she is a woman and mother like the late Mrs. Bhutto.

Bhutto fallout

Doles, Miami, FL — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:07:16 GMT

Nashville_fan wrote, "I don't think that anyone honestly believes that David Axelrod meant that Hillary Clinton is responsible for Bhutto's death in Pakistan.
I also don't think that anyone believes that this tragic event magically morphs Senator Clinton into the most experienced candidate to handle this crisis.

Whoever is elected President is going to face many tough situations, so the question is, how have they handled difficult situations in the past?"
I'm afraid that's not going to be the case. When you have so called pundits giving grades to who looked better when they sent their condolences, the real story is lost in between. What they don't realize is that other people don't necessarily see things as they do. Who you think looked presidential might be viewed as exploiting the occasion for their political advantage. They lost their leader. You think they would care about who looked presidential in their wishes? This is where the conventional thinkers are wrong once again. Domestically this is going to benefit the ones scoring political points but as it relates to foreign policy, I'm afraid it's the same old game.

Bhutto fallout

mike vegas — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:15:42 GMT

Maybe we should change the constituion and let Bush stay for 4 more years. Afterall, he's obviously the most "experienced" of all. Apparently that's what counts. Brains, judgement, instincts, flexibility, the power to lead and inspire change? Not important.
---High on Change (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 10:41 AM)

How old are you High on change? I don't mean to ask that in a derogitory manner, but I wonder if you remember the 2000 election?

George Bush was an in-experienced governor with 0 foreign policy creds but touted his connection to great advisors and good judgement. He was a 'compassionate conservative who had experience working across the isle.' He had all these great ideas for the country but when pressed couldn't really give you the details but said he'd have great advisors.

Look what happened when we went with 'good judgement/gut feeling' over experience.

I'll take real working insider knowledge this time, I want a grown up this time who's been there, done that.

or maybe you the one who needs to go a little further what foreign experience did bill clinton have when he run for president??? selective memory hah,you can wish all you want just like any thing in life its either you got a good man(president) or bad man(president)so this whole nonsenses about experience is just a bunch of crap.what have the so called experienced bunch done so far??? i will tell you what they have done they brought as the iraq waaaarrrr.

Bhutto fallout

Arshad, newburgh, NY — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:44:05 GMT

Let's put things in context. There have been a series of military dictatorship in Pakistan ever since the independence of India and Pakistan in 1947. The army never allowed democratic institutions to function properly.

Benazir Bhutto was elected Prime Minister twice. During Clinton Presidency, she was ousted by Army (Musharraf) on the ground of nepotism, corruption, failure to control violence inside Pakistan. Her husband Asif Zardari was jailed. She was asked to go to exile or face charges inside Pakistan. She went to exile in Dubai and England and lived there for last 8 years.

During these 8 years, no American politicians cried for Bhutto. No one was competing on TV screen who knows her and her kids more and who had a cup of tea or had a dinner with her. During these 8 years, these politicians accepted a military dictator (Musharraf) as an "important ally" on "war on terror". Billion of US dollar went to him, a dictator recieved international legitimacy as long as he used a few thousand of his soldiers against terrorist in Afghan-Pakistan border. I don't see any progress has been made there. Rather fundamentalist found new strength inside Pakistan, anti US sentimate fanned, Musharraf came under series of assassination attempt, people started a movement against Musharraf inside the country.

Now when it seems that Musharraf is in tough spot, might loose support from Army and if election was held now to replace Musharraf, who would be in power. To make sure it's not those fundamentalists or the 6 parties ally of them who controls 2 of 4 provinces in Pakistan, American government negotiated Benazir's return to Pakistan with Musharraf so that she can become PM incase Musharraf loose. Musharraf allowed her to get assassinated by not providing good security coverage.

So the question is what has been changed in Pakistan. The answer is NOTHING. It's a volatile country. Have been an undemocratic regime for a long time. Fundamentalist muslim and terrorist have been an on going threat. American govt stood up with dictators for years and never pushed for democracy to allow people's participation in democracy. Suicide bombing, violence, assassination have been going on for months or years. This situation has been true last month and true today. Only additional fact is an ex PM assassinated yesterday unfortunately. And some how that makes Clinton a better figure to deal with this? HOW? What she did as a senator in last 8 years to address Pakistan? What Biden, Dodd or Edwards did? They followed the failed Bush policy that have been proven ineffective around the globe. So media should stop this spin and make Hillary more needed just because she visited Pakistan and talked to her for 30min 10 years ago. If a suicide bomber firing 2 bullets and blowing himself up in a remote part of the world can change election in a country like US, then the suicide bomber win and America play in his hand and encourage more suicide bombing. Obama is the answer to related to the world, to develop a principled foreign policy, to build bridges across race, religion, cultures and geographies. 30 min tea with Bhutto for Clinton is no match to what Obama can bring for US foreign policy. People around the world look at a different America when Obama is in charge. Think about it folks and don't fall in the trap of so called pundits.

Bhutto fallout

docrock,tx — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:56:15 GMT

What election?Shouldn't the word be Selection?If a politician falls in the forest,does anyone care?This drivel about the good/bad effects of an assassination is moronic beyond belief.

Bhutto fallout

syss27, Philadelphia, PA — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:06:29 GMT

Hillary Clinton has demonstrated through her Iraq and Iran votes that her decisions are not based on what is best for the country or the world at large, but rather on what is politically expedient…in other words, what is best for Hillary!

Obama is steady, strong and deliberative with sound judgment, and seems to be motivated by what is best and right for this country and the world.

He is the REAL deal, and who I want for my President.

Godspeed Senator Obama. Many stand with you, will vote for you in our respective states, and root for your ultimate success on the road to the White House.

We need you now more than ever.

Bhutto fallout

phillyinpa — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:18:55 GMT

how can anyone in their right mind imagine obama as president during these very dangerous times. he has absolutely no idea what he would do to handle situations such as the bhutto assassination or anything else of that magnitude. all i can say is God forbid if he would be our next president. we would be in a world of hurt. HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO EXPERIENCE IN FOREIGN AFFAIRS. why can't you undrstand that. he knows nothing about handling a national or foreign crisis. is this who you would want as a leader and defender of our country. think very hard before you vote.

Bhutto fallout

Diamond — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:20:07 GMT

WHAT ELSE DO WE NEED?

From the casualties of the war in Iraq to the heightened terrorism and re-energized Al Qaida in Pakistan, to the death of the brave Benazir Bhutto, somehow, events seem to always vindicate Barack Obama's wisdom and judgment.

It was Obama's wisdom and judgment that opposed the war in Iraq before it began; it was Obama's wisdom and judgment that said we should focus on the terrorists in Pakistan and Afghanistan (a strategy endorsed by Bhutto) instead of the wrong battlefield of Iraq; it was Obama's wisdom and judgment that said we should also talk with leaders we don't like. it was the wrong kind of experience that got us into the wrong battlefield; it was the wrong kind of experience that called judgment 'naive'; it was the wrong kind of experience that got it all wrong, over and over, and over again.

WHAT ELSE DO WE NEED?
Clinton to be nominated and screw it up for Democrats in November? Rudy Giuliani to be president and lead us to another war with Iran? what else do we need? I feel like crying!

What else do we need before we recognize a young Senator from Illinois whose judgment has been vindicated time and time again, and put him where he belongs - in the oval office?

Now, I really feel like crying!

Bhutto fallout

thomas, little rock, ar — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:32:31 GMT

Obama is ignorant of foreign policy and that is very dangerous and it was so apparent in his remarks regarding Bhutto Pat Buchanan yesterday on Hardball called him a "novice just out of the Illinois Senate a year or 2" How true that is.
Senator Clinton received praise and admiration for her response to Bhutto's assasination. She was warm, collected and intelligent, Andrea Mitchell from NBC praised her too. Even Chris Matthews who normally rants and raves like a lunatic seemed very somber by what happened and realized and said that Senator Clinton is the person that we can trust in matters such as this. I am a Democrat but I also thought John McCain seemed wise and trustworthy on this matter.
You people who think Obama is a leader are not wise and I cannot see how anyone could feel that he is ready to lead our country.
Iowans, Please do not vote for him and put our country in jeopardy. Take a look at Bush and his inexperience and see how he led and, I ask you please do not vote for Barack Obama.

Bhutto fallout

phillyinpa — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:34:18 GMT

bush/rove-----obama/axlerod-----scary similarities, don't you think so. two puppet masters pulling the strings on two puppets.

Bhutto fallout

women for Hillary — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:36:57 GMT

if you don't have a good player, no matter how hard you cheer for him, he won't have a touchdown. Obama has NO EXPERINCE. Hope is hopeless. Change is just a word.

Bhutto fallout

concerned citizen — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:39:07 GMT

IOWANS - PLEASE DO NOT VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA!!!!!!!
THIS PUTS OUR COUNTRY IN JEOPARDY. HE HAS BEEN DESCRIBED MOST ACCURATELY AS A "NOVICE" JUST OUT OF THE ILLINOIS SENATE FOR 2 YEARS.
HE'S NOT READY TO LEAD OUR COUNTRY - I URGE YOU TO THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING. VOTE DEMOCRAT BUT PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT VOTE FOR THAT GUY. HE ALSO HAS MANY CHARACTER FLAWS SUCH AS HIS ASSOCIATION WITH A SLUMLORD TONY REZCO OUT OF CHICAGO. REZCO GAVE OBAMA A HOUSE, REZCO HAS ALSO BEEN INDICTED ON BRIBERY CHARGES, ETC. HE CONTRIBUTED MILLIONS TO OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN. GO TO GOOGLE AND YOU WILL FIND THE INFORMATION. PLEASE DON'T VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA!

Bhutto fallout

concerned citizen, Iowa — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:56:13 GMT

DIAMOND,

I SUPPOSE YOU MUST FEEL LIKE CRYING AGAIN JUST KNOWING THAT CONDOLEEZA RICE BROKERED THE DEAL TO BRING BHUTTO BACK TO PAKISTAN SO SHE COULD BE MURDERED.
IS THAT THE KIND OF WISDOM AND JUDGEMENT THAT OBAMA WILL PUT FORTH SHOULD HE BE ELECTED PRESIDENT?
I ALSO BELIEVE SHE OFFERED UP THE "MUSHROOM CLOUD" SCENARIO AS AN EXCUSE TO GOING TO WAR IN IRAQ.

OH PLEASE EXCUSE, I FORGOT SHE IS A REPUBLICAN BUT PERHAPS THEY DO HAVE A LOT IN COMMON.

Bhutto fallout

OhioMom — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:00:50 GMT

"During these 8 years, these politicians accepted a military dictator (Musharraf) as an "important ally" on "war on terror". Billion of US dollar went to him, a dictator recieved international legitimacy as long as he used a few thousand of his soldiers against terrorist in Afghan-Pakistan border. I don't see any progress has been made there. Rather fundamentalist found new strength inside Pakistan, anti US sentimate fanned, Musharraf came under series of assassination attempt, people started a movement against Musharraf inside the country."

Arshad, this is exactly what John Edwards has been saying for months now--that Bush's policy re: Musharraf must be revised. Check out www.johnedwards.com/issues , click "Terrorism" and then look under the country-specific headings.

Edwards also called for an "independent, international investigation" into Bhutto's death since the Musharraf gov't has so little credibility. In fact, he told that to Musharraf yesterday.

Hilary Clinton was on CNN a little while ago calling for--guess what?--an "independent, international investigation" into Bhuttos death ...

Just one more example of other candidates following Edwards' lead.

Bhutto fallout

Collins, Maryland — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:00:57 GMT

Bush's imperialist views and lack of judgment put America at war with the rest of the world. He failed to impose democracy in the Middle East and is directly responsible for the turmoil in Pakistan and the Arab regions.

Hillary Clinton’s FABRICATED experience on foreign policy and national security are not going to hold against the republicans. As the New York Times mentioned she never had a security clearance and was not briefed on political issues. Her “soft power” was limited to charities and sharing tea with fellow first ladies.

We need OBAMA, who is the only agent of change, in order to win the white house and restore our leadership of the free world:

1.He was right about leaving Iraq, and focusing on Pakistan and Afghanistan.
2.His health care plan is highly feasible while Hillary’s ideological universal coverage will lead America straight into a recession.
3.He is a trustworthy, likeable, charismatic leader who is uniquely qualified and prepared to be the next US president.

Bhutto fallout

Shotti Kawlra, Potomac, MD. — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:07:32 GMT

Obama likes to align Hillary with Bush policies, but it is obvious nothing could be more fallacious. Politicians are politicians. They don't always tell the truth and Obama, McCain or Edwards are no exceptions despite being the darlings of the media. They also lie or twist the truth more often than you brush your teeth. I am impressed with the very objective comments written by Mark Lewis of Iowa. Please do read that.

Obama smokes cocaine and he gets rave reviews from the media instead of being questioned for doing so. Instead Chris Mathews and his friends blame Hillary's camp for bringing it up. Yet they have no problem still blaming Bill Clinton for saying that he did not inhale some 15 years ago. He is still hounded by the media till today. Some objectivity?
Shotti.

Bhutto fallout

Rick,ky — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:08:51 GMT

I find it comical that the MSM keep's trying to push Their candidate on to Main Street America, when Main Street America has shown this time around, We won't be Fooled by there Incompetence. Main Street America is paying attention because they let the MSM fool them into thinking GWB, was the kinda guy who you wanted have a beer with. This Presidential election cycle, voter's are doing their own research, & will choose who they ( voter's ) want. The MSM try's to push Experience on the voter, the Voter Pushes back harder with Judgement. Instead of the sound bites that may make a campaign stumble, the Voter is looking at overall Substance to help determine their vote. Yet, day in & day out, the MSM comes back to that Experience thing, only because it makes their job much easier. The MSM fails to see that we're sick & tired of the Establishment telling US how it's gonna be. We Want Change, Real Change & it shows up so well on all the threads that MSNBC puts out. I have'nt been to other sites to see what other's may be thinking, but if this site is any indication, Then Real Change is Coming soon & the MSM better get onboard.
MSM, FYI, Real Change is'nt changing from 1 family Bush, giving the reins back to the other Family Clinton.Truth be known, the MSM is sick & tired of it also, but are waiting on Main Street America to lead the way. We Have Your Back!!!!!

" DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER"

Bhutto fallout

Katy — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:09:35 GMT

We watched Obama & Blitzer, and know what was said, you have reported Obama's words incorrectly. Obama did not blame Clinton for the assassination.
His staff, Axelrod was quoted as saying: "I believe our policies in Iraq have had a direct impact on events in Pakistan and Afghanistan, but I would not suggest there is a straight line relationship between the events of today in Pakistan and anyone’s particular vote.” “What I was pointing out was the difference in judgment at the time. Obama thought that the war would have a negative impact in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and that seems relevant right now."

When asked about Axelrod's remarks late Thursday, Obama told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer that “This is one of those situations where Washington is putting a spin on it. … Axelrod in no way was suggesting Hillary Clinton was somehow directly to blame for this situation.”
THE PRESS IS POLITICIZING BHUTTO'S DEATH, NOT THE CANDIDATES. PLEASE STOP!

Bhutto fallout

Mr. Unite Us — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:38:26 GMT

Obama was right about terrorism and Pakistan.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0807/Misreporting_Obama.html

Here is a quote of Bhutto agreeing with Obama;

Bhutto's reaction to Obama's Pakistan policy: "But the issue that I would like to stress is that Barack Obama also said, if Pakistan won't act. And that's the critical issue, that the government has to act. And the government has to act to protect Pakistan's own serenity and integrity, its own respect, and to understand that if it creates a vacuum, then others aren't going to just twiddle their thumbs while militants freely move across the border." -- Benazir Bhutto, August, 2007 ....

Bhutto fallout

Sheprez, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:38:29 GMT

Please have mercy. Do not compare Obama with Bush. Obama can speak and write. He is highly educated and I believe would have much better judgment than Bush. However, Hillary is the strongest and smartest with a lot of relevant experience. She would make a better president during time of peace or crisis.

Bhutto fallout

Carrie, Eastern Iowa — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:42:18 GMT

To all of you touting the fact that Bhutto agreed with Obama, don't forget that she also said this in the same interview:

BHUTTO: Well, I wouldn't like the United States to violate Pakistan's sovereignty with unauthorized military operations.

She did note that Obama had said if Pakistan did not act, and she stressed the importance of Pakistan taking action. However, it seems pretty clear from that statement that she did not fully support everything Obama said.

Bhutto fallout

Jerry Cribbs Davenport, IA — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 20:36:23 GMT

Spinning the issue to favor Obama isnt gonna help him win votes people. Wake up to the fact that Axelrod did something wrong. A serious booboo. And a lot of people got turned off by it! Including this Obama fan.

I was about to caucus for Obama until I realized how composed Clinton's campaign is no matter how much garbage thrown at them. They're the ones on the right side this time, yet here are Obama's fans attacking them again. Its a case of damn if you do, damn if you dont! Its shameful!! It has got to stop.

Now im thinking really hard about my caucus vote on the 3rd! Is Obama worth it? Is this shameful campaign tactic the "change" we are expecting from him and his people? Now i might have to look for another one to support on caucus night. Not someone who resorts to cheap shots for political gains!

Obama 2008? Ill have to think again.

Bhutto fallout

Wisdom Calls, Palisades Park,NJ — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 20:46:16 GMT

This is the time to choose a person who is pragmatic and has wisdom, diplomatic skills, focus, strength and sharp foreign policy. We need a results-oriented person to govern our great nation and communicate authoritatively with the rest of the world.

Hillary has both experience and the sense to bring about practical change, appropriately. She is strong enough and determined to do what is good for America. She is here for such a time as this.

A vote for her is a vote for good governance.

Bhutto fallout

Jim, Indy, IN — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 20:52:06 GMT

Thomas, Little Rock and others who are praising HRC's remarks regarding PM Bhutto:
I'd like like to know when HRC earned the right to consider herself PM Bhutto's "peer on the world stage." They were both elected to a position in their respective national government, but PM Bhutto was elected to lead her gov't, making her a world leader. As a member of the US Senate, Mrs. Clinton is a national leader. Her time as first Lady certainly has made her an international figure, with a recognizable face and name, but Paris Hilton is an International figure. PM Bhutto and Sen. Clinton are, indeed, both mothers and women working in a traditionally male job, but that is where similarities, as described by Sen Clinton, end. I think she's stepped over the line of good taste and reality to satisfy her own self-importance.

Bhutto fallout

squintz, philly, pa — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 20:57:40 GMT

Jerry Cribs, please. We all know you aren't an Obama supporter. The same people read this blog all the time and seemingly have better memories than you!

Bhutto fallout

docrock,tx — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:03:12 GMT

Thank you Mark Lewis for your comments.While I am a true Biden supporter,I think MSNBC has sided with the wrong poster child in Obama.Although I am not fond of a slick presentation like Hillarys',I would vote for her rather than a novice like Barack,that has fallen quickly from his pedestal.We need someone that can think on their feet,and listen to advice without pandering or allowing personal feelings to interfere with reason.If we don't elect a competent leader this time around,I fear for our children.

Bhutto fallout

Iris, Philadelphia — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:03:09 GMT

Some say Obama's lack of experience can be compared to Bush when he was elected; Bush had Texas, but not national, experience. This view is pure propaganda. Bush never had the foresight or courage to oppose a popular but stupid war, publicly. Come to think of it, neither did HRC or JE. So who is more like Bush? The best indicator or a poor leader is poor judgment, not a resume. Thank heavens Kennedy averted the Cuban Missile Crisis: he had only 7 years in public office prior to the Presidency. When Obama is sworn in, he will have had 9 years in public office, not counting his work in civil rights and community organizing.