http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspxFrom NBC's Mike ViqueiraHouse Minority Leader John Boehner got emotional this morning as he spoke about the "solemn" debate that the House is set to begin today over the non-binding resolution opposing Bush's troop increase. Boehner appeared at a stakeen-USCommunityServer 2.0 (Build: 60608.1)http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55016Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:22:19 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55016philf99, TNOk I think I'm going to puke. No I do not believe it is real.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55040Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:35:07 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55040Rufus Gibbons, Kennett,Mo.Here are some anti war protesters and what they said the authors may surprise you: "You can support the troops but not the president" Tom Delay (R-TX) "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is." Governor George W. Bush (R-TX) Of course that was said when Clinton went into Bosnia, so is it ok to protest the war only when it is a democrat's war. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55045Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:38:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55045Brian, Cedar Hill, TXDid Boehner have an eagle on his other shoulder? This is some really sicko crap. How about some tears for the 3,100 American and countless other lives already lost by Bush's lie. And all the treasure sunk in that sandpit while the Katrina damage still lingers for attention, looking worse than any Baghdad bombing. You're so right phil99 - it makes me want to puke.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55052Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:43:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55052Amy B Portland, MEI got misty eyed when the US invaded Iraq on the pretext of removing Saddam, wasted billions of dollars due to lack of Congressional oversight, bungled the follow-up to the invasion and then refused to leave the glorious bases built in Iraq while prepping the American people for a war on Iran. I got even mistier hearing about the deaths of National Guardsmen from Maine. Their deaths are not in vain: America honors her troops, its the politicans directing this fiasco we are protesting. Boehner should dry his eyes and get to work extracting us from this quagmire. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55054Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:44:51 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55054Rick Lapin, Albuquerque, NM"Overture, curtain lights/This is it, we'll hit the heights/And oh what heights we'll hit/On with the show, this is it!" -- theme from "The Bugs Bunny Show"http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55073Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:54:44 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55073DAve, Sun City, AZI wonder along with the sound of the anti war protesters, the North Vietnamese played "Feelin' like I'm Fixin' to Die Rag" by Country Joe and the Fish. Gimme an F....... Some more staged crap by the Republicans to shame the country into sending more soldiers to die in s*#t storm they created.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55074Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:55:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55074Sierra, San FranciscoI'm glad to see John Boehner still gets so emotional about Viet Name. He never made it there. He was discharged from the Navy with a 'bad back' ("her father was lazy and no count, claaaaaaaaimed he had a bad back" Polk Salad Annie). Minority Leader Boehner's military career lasted 8 weeks. Another Republican "Chicken Hawk". http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55077Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:59:09 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55077M.E., Albany, Ga."Play Misty For Me". "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes". Best I can do for now. Give the man a Claritin.It's just the pollen from all those blooming idiots around him. I too have deep emotion for anyone who has been a prisoner of war, and have had deep emotions for all those who have been killed, maimed, even beheaded. But..to exploit this man by using him to hijack an emotional debate is wrong.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55078Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:59:55 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55078Lynette, NYCWhat sort of person who was a POW for seven years is gung ho to continue a war for the sake of the soldiers feelings? The soldiers do not want to stay there. They want to come home. How is it NOT patriotic to want the citizens of your own country to LIVE and to come home. This logic always escapes me.... Bring these men and woman home!!! http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55080Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:00:09 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55080Al, Burlington, KSAnd Sam Johnson would have been home a lot sooner if congress had acted to end the Vietnam War. Those of us who are products of the 60's, have heard it all before. Support the Troops...Fight them there so we don't have to fight them here...Chaos in the region...safe for democracy...We'll stand down when they stand up. Been there, Done that! Good God Y'all.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55083Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:00:43 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55083Jim DwyerSo Boehner is weeping on his $1000 suit as he roles out old Sam Johnson to dis the "surge" vote. These people haven't gotten beyond the vaudville stage. Let's hope they have enough Kleenex to keep from flooding the House floor.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55087Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:03:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55087Fedup Oh please!Enough of the old white men whinning and crying while W tumps up another front to send the troops to and hopes we will forget about why we went into this mess in the first place.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55091Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:05:17 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55091Steve Turner Cedar Falls IowaRep. Johnson is to be commended for his service and suffering for this Country. However, to insinuate that people in this Country are wrong to protest any war we are involved in, is in itself wrong. People have that right, if that is their belief. That is what makes this Country so great. Our right to speak our mind, no matter if every other person in the Country disagrees with that speech. If you think that should change, maybe YOU should move to another country. Our troops should be encouraged by protest. That Freedom is what they swore an oath to protect.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55121Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:19:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55121sarah taosViqueira is a Bushist kool-aid swiller. Do your job you hack and stop with the propaganda.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55132Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:28:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55132JIrby, Colorado Springs, CoMan, I hate it when a Republican gets misty-eyed. It's like getting locked in a truck load of Snickers and Diet Cokes for a month. And when you finally get out, you're sentenced to six years of watching "Days of our lives" reruns and Richard Simmons exercise videos. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55149Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:37:10 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55149Ryan nebraskaWOW! I read these post daily just to see the left view of things in this country and it seems that its the same people making the same posts each day. It makes me mad to think that this country has become so divided within and that it has become so far left or so far right. I dont agree whatsoever with far left views. ie abortion, gay marriage, antiwar, IF you lefties want to talk about innocent lives being lost for nothing why dont you think for one second all the lives being lost through abortion, those are the truely innocent. Young men and women at least have a choice to join the military, they could have chosen something else. Unlike the left I truely believe that the country has been rotting from the inside out. The left is for taking god out of this country and that is evident through the lack of morals in the issues they support. I just think what would make someone support abortion? How on earth could anyone rationally think that abortion is right? Explain this to me LEFT siders. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55180Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:49:05 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55180jt; NEHas anyone heard of this playing of anti-war protestors at the prison before? I don't recall hearing of it before, but then I guess I haven't heard all of it yet. And would that duh!bya quote be a flip-flop? Oh no, couldn't be for he is not a Democrat!!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55190Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:55:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55190mikeeg,abdn,waryan neb. asap impeachbush.org and save americahttp://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55191Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:55:42 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55191Lynette, NYCRyan, First of all this is a political blog and we usually comment on the various commentaries posted here by the staff. Secondly, Not everyone on the left supports abortion per say, However supporting the right to choose is generally the issue. Of course, you would try to change the subject of how YOUR president wants to send 20,000 more americans who are in the military by choice( unfortunately the choice for some is whether they can go to college or learn a skill and their only option is military service first) to DIE or be in harms ways. These are VIABLE human lives with families to support,people with LIVES with children, parents, freinds. Think about this and stop the religious meanderings. My God and yours does not approve of this horrible war or any for that matter....... http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55193Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:56:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55193Nick, OhioBoehner and Johnson are being hypocritical beyond belief. I wonder if their tears froze on their faces? What in the world do they want from the American public? To continue to act as lemmings, readyand willing to jump over the edge of the cliff into the boiling sea? We have had enough of these so-called leaders. If they cannot act on the public's wishes, then they need to resign. They have had cushy jobs since 1993 and have raked in the ill-gotten booty from Abramhof and Reed and others and have crucified Clinton on everything under the sun. Now, when faced with public anger over their actions in supporting the war in Iraq, they feign crying. Go home, boys... your time is over.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55203Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:00:18 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55203Chris, Abilene, TXThe majority of the troops in Iraq want to come home. They want the war to end. BUT, they want these things AFTER we've achieved something, not just say "well, things got hard so we're going to leave". There is a lot of frustration about how the war is being portrayed to the people by the media, which generally focuses on the negative. It's truly surreal at times to see and hear one thing and read something that's very different in the news magazines.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55206Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:00:55 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55206Michelle, Toms River, NJRyan...typical righty...changing the topic because its something you don't want to hear. If you want to talk about abortion, go to another forum or something. We are interested in this story, not your sobbing about abortion. And for the record, if safe sex was taught in schools and protection was easily accessible...there would rarely be a need for abortion. But again you are a righty and don't believe in that either. Heck you probably think that because I'm a woman, I shouldn't have a job or be on the computer. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55210Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:03:03 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55210Jamie, Elmwood Park, IllinoisRyan, just my opinion, but why don't you ask a women who was brutalized/raped her view of abortion. Or a woman who was told that the fetus she is carrying is not viable. As far as "Morals", more often than not, everytime there is some type of scandal, it comes from the right - preachers, priests, etc. Nothing like the arrogance of the "do as I say, not as I do" far right. Saddam was a horrible dictator, but he had no WMDs, and there were certainly no terriorist in Iraq - they came AFTER we were lied into this war. Nothing like the pentagon sifting through intelligence and cherry-picking only what fit their views.I've always considered myself a centerist, but after 6 years of this administration, I am definitely leaning to the left.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55215Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:04:42 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55215Brian, Cedar Hill, TXRyan, it's your leader Bush who divided this country with his kill a Commie for Christ way of thinking and his twisted Messianic insanity.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55217Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:05:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55217Joe DokesThe debate here is the war. Please do not hijack the discussion with other issues (i.e. 12:37pm).http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55226Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:08:46 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55226M.E., Albany, Ga.I am so sorry. Evidently my download didn't include all of this article. Was Boehner crying about gay rights and abortion? I'll get back to you after I have a chance to read that whole article. Sorry again. My bad.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55227Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:08:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55227Al, Burlington, KSRyan...when the three branches of Government...Congress, Executive, and the Courts...become 50% or more female, then I promise to abide by their laws concerning abortion. Until then, I cannot listen to the good ol boys network telling a women what she can and cannot do. While we're on the subject, I bet you are pro-war, pro-guns, vehemently anti-gay, and anti any other religion. Where does this fit into the swords into plowshares, turn the other cheek, meek inherite the earth, Christianity? Just to be clear on this, you believe that since our soldiers are volunteers, that it is OK for them to die? That's really warped.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55233Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:11:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55233Rufus Gibbons, Kennett Mo.Whatever you do Ryan of Nebraska don't step on a stem cell but cut medicaid because once they are born to hell with them. Should we also send our children to Jesus Camp to "make them as avid about their religion as the muslims are about theirs".http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55236Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:13:25 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55236JIrby, Colorado Springs, CoIf you get caught in the desert with your pooch and you run out of water, is it safe to drink highly filtered dog pee? Would Jesus be okay with this?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55254Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:28:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55254The Edge, Macon, GARyan Neb...psssst...your hate is showing, better spin a new coverup to hide behind....http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55266Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:42:15 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55266Coy Reese, Shady Spring, West VirginiaBoehner is a day late and a dollar short on the tears. He is part and parcel of this debacle in Iraq. President Bush is a War Criminal and Boehener is an enabler.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55268Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:43:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55268Nick, OhioIf anyone is a true RTL'er, then they should also be against all wars and capital punishment. Somehow, I don't believe that Ryan is walking the walk (I cringe when I hear that phrase as it reminds me of the religious right, those who selfishly believe they are the only ones to be "saved" and damn all others to Hell.) WWJD? He'd be appalled at the selfishness of our country. He'd be protesting against the war, poverty, greed, power, and all that he didn't like when he was here 2100 years ago. He'd be a black, Hispanic, poor & homeless, pregnant female with HIV. War is wrong on any front, for any reason. Killing is wrong, for any reason. If you believe in war and killing, then you cannot be a follower of Christ, or Mohammed, Budda or any other faith founded on peace, love and understanding. I am constantly struggling to be more like Christ. We all are. No one has yet to be like him, as it would mean being God. It is the desire, the effort, the attempt, the will and belief that are important. Where were we? Oh yeah... Boehner's crying for support for Bush and his policy of death and destruction.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55282Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:54:13 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55282DAll: The "right" to abort babies is the sacrament of the Democrat Party. Any arguments? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55310Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:09:38 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55310Dave, Sun City, AZRyan, please no "Wag the Fetus" topic changing here. Having sat back and watched the Republican freak show for the past twenty five years plus, it is apparent to me that pro-lifers and their Republicans stoolies are interested life from the moment of conception until they are born and the, you are on your own buddy.Cut Medicaid, Head Start, school lunches, support of public schools under the guise of "accountability" when all they want to do is funnel tax dollars to their favorite arena rock, blow dried preacher to lecture me on how I should run my life. May the real God come down and rid us of these phonies. Ezk.25:17. The only good American soldier is a live one. Bring home and let Allah sort it out.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55314Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:12:14 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55314DesmondMr. boehner, what a wonderfulman. He was really concerned about the 17 and 18 year old pages in the House when Mark Foley was roaming the halls.And oh yes, I too cried when my cousin's head was blown off in Vietnam.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55315Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:12:41 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55315Ryan NebraskaMichelle just because Im pro life dosent make me a sexist. Not one of you has explained to me how abortion is moral. Its typical again of the left to deflect any real ansewer or solutions, they provide criticizim and thats about it. And Al I dont condemn other religions at all, its christianity that is being persecuted in this country. I dont care who others worship, thats their choice, but its the rights of christians in this country that are being trampled on. As far as the dems they supported going into Iraq in the first place after recieving the same info that Bush did and now that things are tough in Iraq they want to tuck and run. Top military officals say that if we do that, things would definitly go from bad to worse. I support more troops, I also want the troops to come home but only when its time. I will trust those people that are fighting in this war to determine what needs to be done, not some far left that only wants the troops home for their own political agenda. Im pro war when I believe that it is necessary to fight the war on terror. The left is stating that we should have only gone after Osama and not Saddam. If we would have killed Osama would we be out of danger from the terror threat? This country was taken through an act of war, it was liberated through acts of war and is now being secured through acts of war. You all want to talk about this aritcle well go ahead and keep taking the low road making fun of the House Majority Leader, your typical response from the left. Grow up people!! Now attack my comments without any real dicussion because thats what the left does best.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55328Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:19:07 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55328!D - the Republican party has absolute right to run your life. Any arguments? (What stunning hypocracy to be concerned with a life only until it's born, then it can fast track to a texas death row, Iraq, or a smoke-filled car in Maine - none of you "right-to-lifers" gives a damn. Go adopt an unwanted baby, then came back here on your self-righteous high horse.) Chris - it has always been the policy of the United States to "do what the troops want" so I can't understand why that "argument" doesn't work? Can you?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55341Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:25:50 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55341Ryan NebraskaNick you must know quite a bit about me to judge my walk through life. Jesus would be appalled at the state of this country from the , abortion, gay marriages, crime, porn, and the complete decay of any moral fiber. If you are supporting these issues then you are most definitly part of the problem and not the solution.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55342Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:25:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55342D!: Your anger is not becomming. This time, give me arguments against my statement.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55357Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:33:35 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55357Brian FLRyan, you say you want to protect life yet support those that kill by bombing abortion clinics. You protect life yet support cutting the funding of healthcare for children. You protect life yet cut funding for children who wish to attend college and receive a education. You protect life yet don't support raising the min. wage so families can afford to raise their children. Hey Ryan a word to the wise caring for a child for 9 months and then all of a sudden stop caring does not make you pro-life it makes you a hypocrit.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55361Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:34:39 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55361Lynette, NYCNo one is responding to you Ryan about the morality of abortion because no one has the right to call anyone moral or immoral. WE are not God, and we should not be judging people based on their own opinions and circumstances. THIs is not the subject of this blog. The house Minority Leader shed a tear at a photo op to gain momentum for his own stupid agenda..... Its laughable and such a see through tactic how could people with a half a head on their shoulders not comment. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55365Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:35:26 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55365Lynette, NYCRYAN YOU FORGOT TO MENTION THE WAR!!!!!!!!!!!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55366Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:35:39 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55366Melba Isom, White Bluff, TNRyan, you are the pot calling the kettle black if ever I read it! since you are not female you have no idea how much pain there is to carrying a child to term, you also have no idea how much joy there is in giving birth to that child. Having done both two times one of the things I have always taught my daughters - until you are ready to raise a child do everything in your power to keep from getting pregnant and never under any circumstances have a relationship with anyone who is right wing (of either party) and by all means do not volunteer for the armed services while a repugnant is in power. Now, back on topic: Guess it would not set well with old Bonie if all the troups came home and the unemployment rate went sky high in his district because all those doing the jobs now were out of work to give the troups their jobs back. Yes, it is an oil issue and it is an economic issue - lets pretend the economy is rosey for everyone even at 5.00 per hour! My service men and women deserve better than this - I support them because I want the VA to offer better healthcare to them and their families and I want them to come home right now alive and well!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55369Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:36:49 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55369Melba Isom, White Bluff, TNLooks like Daddy's little War Criminal is calling on all his friends for back up - not gonna work this time!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55372Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:38:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55372just lovelyHow is it moral to be against abortion but then disect welfare? How is it moral to be against abortion, but not believe in teaching about birth control in school? How is it moral to be against abortion when you right wingers are supposed to be for LESS government in our lives? How can you be against abortion when you know that if we don't have abortions legally we will have back alley abortions, women dying, and even MORE homeless children? Last I checked this was a free country, and if you are against abortion then don't have one, don't let your wife have one, for the rest of the women out there...I don't think it is anyone else's business! http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55373Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:38:26 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55373Amy B Portland, MEDrinking, possessing porn, dressing indecently, having extramarital or gay sex, these acts will get you flogged or worse in Saudi Arabia. Can it be that Jesus loves the Arabs more than he loves the USA? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55375Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:39:56 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55375Susan, NCRyan, Christianity in this country is being persecuted by the small group of loudmouth right-wing extremists who point fingers and blame the "godless Democrats" and others for the ills of our country. You're giving us the bad rap. The rest of us need to speak up and deny their speaking for us. Oh, and D, the Democratic party has no "sacraments." We know how to keep our religion and politics separate. No theocracies here.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55389Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:48:42 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55389Chris, Abilene, TX!, the troops want to win. We went into Bosnia in 1993. We're still there, but we gained something. We didn't go in, and when things got tough, turned and ran. Our troops don't want to give their blood, sweat and tears (and sometimes their lives) for a cause that the troops are fighting tooth and nail for, but many people are turning their back on. Most of those people who are turning their back on the mission never had to go there in the first place, so it's easy to say "oh, let's just call it quits".http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55390Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:50:13 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55390Ryan NeBrian in Fl I never said any of those things because they were not dicussed by me. Nice Try, how is abortion a moral act?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55392Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:51:10 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55392DSusan, NC: I disagree. The evidence proves otherwise.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55407Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:56:49 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55407DLynette: Your statement, "No one is responding to you Ryan about the morality of abortion because no one has the right to call anyone moral or immoral. WE are not God, and we should not be judging people based on their own opinions and circumstances." Do you mean to argue that we, as a population have no right to legislate against the offense of murder? Of course we do! We must, in order to maintain civilization. Please, no more arguments that a law against abortion would be tantamount to forcing one's own religious or "moral" views on anyone. Is the baby being destroyed not a human life??? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55413Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:00:32 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55413!Chris - the "troops" don't set policy. Period. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55417Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:03:07 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55417AsadRyan, abortion will be debated back and forth till the end of time. The fact is, nobody is "pro-abortion". Nobody wants to abort all fetuses from wombs. The only thing "pro-choice" people say is that the government cannot tell a woman who has been raped that her punishment for being raped is to carry the baby for 9 months. This is what is called a nuance. Liberals believe in nuances. Neocons believe in a black and white world where people are either "good" or in the "axis of evil". So to answer your question, no, abortion is not moral. But it is at times necessary. If you say that you are willing to accept these nuances, then I'm willing to meet you in the middle.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55420Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:04:39 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55420just lovelyRyan-How is lying to the American people about why we are going to war a moral act? How is having relationships with teenage pages a moral act? It seems to me there are a lot more republicans out there that are immoral, but yet the religious right always vote for them. I think people that speak about morality might want to rethink their picks for the politicians of the free world. I also thought that Jesus taught love for one another...doesn't that include gays and god forbid those people who might have a porn under their mattress?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55425Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:08:09 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55425Chris, Abilene, TX!, if you don't care about what the troops want, then perhaps you should stop running around saying "don't worry troops! We're here to save you! We know you want to come home and stop fighting!". I hear that all the time from the politicians, as well as other people on the streets. When the troops say "hey, we just want to win this war, and be given time to do it", they are told by the anti-war crowd "well, shut up, it's not your opinion that counts".http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55430Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:09:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55430DAsad: Conservatively, around 2,000,000 abortions are performed legally in this country. That sounds to me as if they are not taking place merely by "necessity". The "right" to abort babies is the sacrament of the Democrat Party. The Democrats must not lose that right! Disagree with me?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55435Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:14:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55435lloyd roberts, Jamaica New Yorkhey ryan, the really poor shape that america is in is because of the hypocracy of the religious right. Like the evangelical minister Haggard telling us gays were bad as he saw a male prostitute. Or Spokane mayor Jim West who voted against pro gay ammendments because they were immoral and yet was caught in a gay chat room dating men. Or the creep mark foley who chaired the house committee on exploited and abused children and we all know what that piece of dirt did. Or Newt Gingrich who tried to hide the fact that his first wife got an abortion as he handed her divorce papers in her hospital room.. Very moral individual, oh I forgot he is part of the religious right. He's excused. You want me to tell you why abortion is immoral? After you tell me why it's not immoral for the catholic church to hide the fact that priests have been abusing children in America for the last century. I look up to no one today. Am I going to look up to a priest or a congressman or a rabbi or a minister as he's raping my three year old? The most moral people in this country today and the only people I look up to are the ordinary Americans who live day by day and don't criticize other people's lives and comment on their moral character. I guess you're not one of us. Go run a parish and lie to us all, you're suited to that behaviourhttp://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55436Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:15:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55436D NichollsThe cognitive dissonance in the minds of many on the right, caused by their 'pro-life/pro-war' and 'war for freedom/slavery to war' thinking, must be making them positively psychotic. It is evident that in many at the highest seats of power this now transcends mere utilitarian hypocrisy as a personality trait, to a truly twisted psyche enabling the condition of true Orwellian double-think. Boehner's contrary actions of crying at the thought of soldiers suffering unnecessarily in a previous war, and then arguing for the escalation of more soldiers, some sure to unnecessarily suffer, in the current war, is a clear indication of this. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55441Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:21:11 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55441Ryan, MichiganAsad - I give you a great amount of respect for your last post. Amongst all the name calling (from both sides) and half-truths you posted something logical and constructive. I would join you in accepting a ban on abortions except in the cases of rape, incest, and a mother's health which only account for about 2% of abortions performed in America. You are right that conservatives tend to live in a world of black and white with a little bit of gray and liberals live in a world of gray with a little bit of black and white.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55446Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:24:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55446DD Nicholls: Not "pro-life/pro-war", but "pro-life/pro-security". Will you not defend your stance on maintaining the right to kill your children?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55453Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:27:46 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55453Sierra, San FranciscoChris: "We went into Bosnia in 1993. We're still there, but we gained something." I agree. We went into Bosnia to prevent "ethnic cleansing". This was a "just war". My criticism of Clinton at the time, was that he waited too long to intervene. ----- Why are we in Iraq? To destroy/confiscate WMD's? There were none. Bush lied about WMDs. Are we "promoting Democracy" ? DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH !! Bush is trying to set up a puppet state in Iraq in order to steal their oil and control the Middle East. (Look at Egypt and Jordan, American lap dogs) Do you really think we're throwing away thousands of our soldiers lives and billions of dollars so that the Iraqi's can decide their own fate? To decide who will control their oil? I don't think so. The war is for permanent bases, oil and the chance to loot the Iraqi economy. Oh ! .... the Civilian Provisional Authority set up a "flat tax" for the Iraqis !! Ain't Bush wonderful ??? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55457Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:29:04 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55457Ryan, Michiganlloyd - I will answer your question, even though ryan might answer it from his point of view as well. All of the incidents you cited are immoral. I think that almost anyone would agree with that. I don't think anyone is disputing that those events you cite are immoral. None of them are excused. I don't really hear or see anybody excusing them. I believe that abortion is immoral because I believe that life begins at conception and thus abortion would be tantamount to murder. That's why I believe that it is immoral. I understand that many people differ with me on when life begins and that is fine. I just hope you can see that if you believe that life begins at conception as I do then you would have to believe that abortion is murder and should not be allowed.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55460Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:30:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55460!Chris - one last time: the troops don't set policy. Politicians do. "run around" and say anything you want. Nobody asked their opinion if they wanted to be deployed three times, but now you're all worried about hurting their feelings by bringing them home. I don't ever recall saying "don't worry." There's plenty to worry about, like a fascist take over of the US government, or, GAY MARRIAGE!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55464Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:32:38 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55464Desmondchris, as I recall President Bush wanted to pull troops out of Bosnia. No nation building. He did not pull troops out of Bosnia. He did call for a pre-emptive war in Iraq. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55479Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:40:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55479lloyd roberts, Jamaica, New YorkYo, Chris from Abalene, just what war is it you want us to win.. I thought Bush told us three years ago mission accomplished, is that the war you want us to win. Usually you start a war with people that attack you. Just for a quick fact check in case it wasn't reported in the papers down in Texas. We were attacked on 9-11-01 by 19 hijackers. 15 of the 19 were from one country, Saudi Arabia. Not one was from Iraq, not one. Is that the war that you want the troops to win. That's certainly not the war on terror. Because if it is, we went to the wrong place. But I forgot, Bush is friends with the Saudis and Saddam dissed his father. I guess that's the war you want us to win, the war where George Senior got dissed. You know the other day I was thinking just what George W. would have been if it wasn't for his poppy and family. An old Glen Cambell tune comes to mind, "I'm just a lineman for the county". No disrespect to linemenhttp://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55481Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:40:17 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55481Joe HollywoodAnd the Academy Award for most convincing Chicken Hawk war mongerer in the "hey, look! That politician REALLY cares!" category goes to......http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55483Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:40:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55483AsadD, the real problem here is the hyperbole. Some hard-core activist can probably give you an astonishingly large number of rape cases in this country the same way you gave me the 2000000 number. I agree that abortions are not moral and should be avoided. However, you have the argument about "rights" reversed. Democrats believe that the government doesn't have the "right" to tell raped women that they MUST carry babies. Again, nuance versus hyperbole.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55486Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:42:09 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55486Carrie, NW IowaRyan - Morality has no place in the legal system. Each one of us is responsible for determining our own moral code by which we live. Some people turn to religion for the blueprint, while others follow what their parents have taught them, and still others find their own moral path. What I may consider immoral, my neighbor may not. In most situations, neither one of us is right and neither one of us is wrong. The land of the free, kiddo - that means we get to make up our own minds, not blindly follow what other people tell us is right or wrong. You think abortion is immoral? Great. I don't share your position, actually I completely disagree with it, but it's your right to have it. Why not try giving those with whom you disagree that same respect? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55488Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:43:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55488H, FloridaCompulsory childbirth! That is what this country needs! Everyone knows it is a womans fault when she seduces a man into sex with her, therefore, she must be the sole bearer of consequenses for her actions. A man is meerly a slave to his hormones. Women are temptresses, they tease and inflame mens desires. So, obviously, abortion is immoral. With no consequences, women might actually achieve some equality, they might even (gasp) speak their minds without fear of retribution. Without compulsory childbirth, the war machine may grind down for lack of fuel.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55489Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:43:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55489Mel, IllinoisActors can cry on cue by thinking of the time their childhood dog was run over by a truck. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55509Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:58:20 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55509DAsad: Look it up, try the Planned Parenthood site. Around 2,000,000 every year. I challenge you. The Democrats believe they must keep this "right" to chose to abort their children. Think about it! Why do they have to keep this right? D Nichols: Cognitive dissonance??? How does the Democrat reconcile promoting the destruction of innocent children at the whim of the parents with demanding the saving of the life of a convicted child-murderer? That sounds insane to me! http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55513Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:01:57 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55513Chris, Abilene, TXSierra/lloyd, if we just wanted oil from Iraq, we had the chance to buy cheap oil when we sided with Saddam against Iran. As for the WMD, there was intelligence being spread around for years about Saddam's interest and activities in acquiring chemical and biological capabilities after his initial stocks were destroyed...not to mention the stocks that stood unaccounted for after the 1991 war. The intelligence turned out to not be as accurate as we thought. Regardless of why the war was started, we're there now. We need to attempt to finish what we started. I feel that if this became an international goal, we can get somewhere. Unfortunately, the many European governments won't touch Iraq with a 10 foot pole, and the UN is looking the other way saying "we didn't start it". Great...very helpful.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55514Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:03:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55514Chris, Abilene, TX!, I understand the troops don't set policy. You missed my point. The politicians and people love to talk about how the poor troops want to come home, etc. Then when any of them speaks their mind to the anti-war crowd about staying to finish, they are told to shut their mouth, and who wanted their opinion anyway?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55517Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:04:59 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55517DH, Florida: Are you implying that I should have the right to kill my wife? What is the difference? Someone please honestly tell me that abortion is NOT the destruction of a life!!!!! Please, I'm begging you!!! Convince me that a woman should have the right to choose to destroy her child. Please!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55531Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:11:33 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55531MM, TR NJI worked for a Planned Parenthood so I guess I'm doomed to go to hell. Oh well. LOL. Funny thing is? PP didn't do as many abortions as they did educating women on birth control and doing pap smears as well as giving birth control out. I love how the right always says PP only does abortions. You have it all wrong. I worked there, saw it with my own two eyes. I know what I saw. And I saw women helping women to become successes in life, by educating and being proactive in that teenager or young adults harmonal life.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55538Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:14:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55538Seattle SueBoehner's tears are as phoney as his sun tan! Some people posting here lead you to believe that no Republican women are having abortions. If these people would open their eyes they would see that Republicans are like Democrats and Independents. All of them like sex, some people lie, steal, peddle influence,cheat on spouses,these are all human traits.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55540Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:16:10 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55540rick,kyI hear the Sheep calling in nebraska..RyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaN.RyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaN.RyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaN.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55561Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:31:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55561markg8, IllinoisAccording to the counter insurgency manual Gen. Petraeus finished writing in July we'd need another 1.4 million soldiers in Iraq to stop the insurgency. That's just the insurgency not a war worse than civil war as the NIE now calls it. The escalation has no chance of succeeding. We're throwing good lives and good money after bad so John Boehner and Sam Johnson don't have to admit political defeat. They're already complicit in the military defeat and desperately hoping to place elsewhere. Sick. Sick. Sick. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55563Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:31:51 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55563Bob, OrlandoRyan, Michigan... I am one of those who you would define as a "leftie" however I agree with you that abortion is immoral. I just do not think that morals can always be legislated. The only way to prevent abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies which has to be taught at the family level (except in cases of rape, etc.) Unfortunately you are right, the country is rotting from the inside out, and it is due, in great part, to the lack of morals. However, this war has become immoral as well, we have opened Pandora's box and have no way of closing it. More troops only opens it wider. However, I must say, you really stirred it up today Ryan. I always enjoy your posts even though I rarely agree with them. At least they are well thought out and not full of vindictiveness as I often see from others on both sides. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55583Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:39:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55583Ryan NebraskaCarrie, I cant really disagree that morallity is a personsal choice and yet I disagree with the idea that morals have no place in the legal system. First of all laws are based on morals; murder, rape, sexual assault and you can go on and on. So if somebody wants to take part in these actions are they excused just because it didnt go against their moral code? How would their even be legal system in place if rules of morallity werent part of the system? The leagal system cleary states what is acceptable (right) behavior and what is unacceptable behavior (wrong). I agree with Ryan in Michigan that all those things Asad cited are clearly immoral acts done by human beings. Asad I can also agree with yo that there is a grey area when it comes to rape and abortion. Asad I also appeciate your post in that common ground between the left and the right in somewhere in the middle and that resolutions take debate. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55603Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:53:51 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55603John B, Des Moines, IARyan, having served as Deacon, Elder, and board member of my local church I do in fact feel my faith is under attack. Every day I'm told that my beliefs aren't Christian enough to pass muster. I find that personally offensive, especially coming from others who consider themselves Christian. I am also American. As such I recognize that our society requires a fair amount of tolerance for those with other opinions. Some religions recognize life as beginning even before conception. Others recognize life as beginning at birth. In our American society why should the beliefs of those who believe life begins at birth by subjugated to the beliefs of those who believe that life begins at conception. It is with prayerful consideration that I have concluded war has no winner. We brand the side that loses the least as the winner and move on with all sides having lost. To me it is deeply immoral to wage war on a country because they might, at some indeterminate time in the future, try to attack us. We went to Afghanistan to defend ourselves. We went to Iraq to put them down. Now it is necessary to continue this action which to me is immoral in order to seek political gain for some. For me this is even more loathesome. You and other conservatives are welcome to your opinions, but please do not brand me immoral because I don't believe as you. As you can see I have put a lot of thought and prayer into my liberal positions. Conservatives do not own Christ and I find it blasphemous to suggest they do. Ryan, please do not consider the most serious of these comments to be directed at you, normally you are respectful and thoughtful in your comments. D, if the above doesn't answer your challenge too bad.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55610Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:57:09 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55610!Oh Chris,, C'mon on! What bull! "Then when any of them speaks their mind to the anti-war crowd about staying to finish, they are told to shut their mouth, and who wanted their opinion anyway? " When have you seen this? When have you heard anyone tell a soldier to "shut his mouth"? You present this as if 100% of the troops are begging to stay 20 years, if that's what it takes. I don't believe it. I don't think you believe it. I'll bet the majority would drop their arms and leave today if offered the choice, but you miss my point: It's not their choice, whether they have an opinion, or not? Ever been in the service? You're more than welcomed to your opinion, and command is more than welcome to ignore it. Been that way in armies for thousands of years, my friend.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55614Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:00:24 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55614Anadda Human, Somewhere on da PlanetI find the occupation in Iraq to be highly immoral and the way that the lies were used in the forceful runup of the war to be immoral. I find the continued reasoning for our continued, unwanted prescence to be immoral. I find the war profiteering and the half a trillion dollars taken from the true needs of our nation and put into the pockets of the already sickeningly wealthy to be immoral. I find our military comanders staying in the gilded palaces that symbolized the previous regime to be immoral. I find the CEO's of so many companies making hundreds of times more than the average employee, let alone the lowest paid employees to be immoral. I find the Republican rubberstamping of these things, with no effective oversight to be immoral. I find the President, again lieing and trying to make a case for attacking Iran to be immoral......the list goes on and on, so much so that what one woman chooses to do with her own body, and the reproductive freedom that she has, to have or not to have a child, and the mechanisms in place to help her make those choices and to effect them, such as contraception, fertility clinics, and yes, abortion, are not even in the same class. One could as well argue that going to a fertility clinic is immoral as well, as our planet is already evidencing the fact of overpopulation. Abortion immoral?, that would have to depend on the reason's that it is done for, and no one, repeat NO one should make that decision other than the woman involved. To force the decision upon her, by ANYONE ELSE, would be much more immoral. Personally, since I am buddhist, I feel that God is not going to allow a fetus to be inhabited with a soul if he knows (and he would and does)that the woman will be going through the traumatic learning experience of having to decide upon an abortion in the first place, God is Not so cruel. Only humans are so cruel as to force a woman to carry to term the child of a rapist, or one that is malformed or genetically disabled. Only humans are so cruel as to force a woman and child to be locked into poverty because the woman was not able to enforce her own, responsible, decision to wait until she was financially stable enough to be able to properly provide for her child and herself. Only humans are so cruel as to have an elite, uber-wealthy, minority segment of the population, shielded to the realities of the rest of the populace, make the decisions that affect the health and wellbeing of the entire populace, based upon their own, twisted OPINIONS of propriety that are totally divorced from the facts on the ground. For them to make decisions that serve only to enrich themselves and their comrades and to keep themselves in power over the rest of the populace, through enforced poverty and emotional segmentation, THAT is what I find to be immoral. Not the agonized choice of a woman exercising her reproductive freedom of choice. That is not even in the same class and should not be what is being discussed here. The immorality of the occupation in Iraq and the Republicans backing it, shedding a crocodile tear in their attempt to bully the people who are trying to exercize true responsibility in this area, THAT is what is being discussed here. To bring up another, unrelated, subject to try to turn the discussion from it....that too is immoral and indefensible.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55621Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:05:43 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55621Mad Mike Proud Army VetChris, Abilene, TX. I hear you bro and the guys I know and served with that are fighting over there just want to win as well. I don't pretend to speak for all of our fighting men and women just the ones I know. The problem with the majority of this crowd on this blog is they will take whatever message they want and under the guise of patriotism and twist that message to suite their own personal hatred for Conservatives, Rove, Republicans, Bush etc. If some of them took the time, put their hatred aside and looked at the issues with a clear head would see how insane they appear to the majority of Americans. But it will never happen they are blinded by rage and party loyalty. The best part about some of them is what they post. They come up with these "theories" with no facts or proof to support these "theories". And when you challenge them on their "theories" they come up with additional "theories" not based on fact or proof to support their original "theory" not based on fact or proof. It is insane but it's also quite funny. Take heart they don't represent the majority of the nation, they think that because 70% of Americans do not support the war that the same 70% of Americans are filled with the same hate and vile as them. You know how the old saying goes “misery loves company”. So if you're bored and you want some comic relief just post here from time to time and watch the fire works unfold...I have never seen them not respond to being called out. It's impossible for them not to fire back with everything they’ve got I think they would suffer from spontaneous combustion if they tried to ignore an opposing post. So sit back and enjoy because here they come. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55623Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:05:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55623John B, Des Moines, IAD, as you requested from the Planned Parenthood web site: "Abortion ends a pregnancy before birth. It occurs naturally in 15–40 percent of all established pregnancies — when an embryo or fetus stops developing and the body expels it. This is called spontaneous abortion, miscarriage, or early pregnancy loss. Women choose abortion in less than 25 percent of the 6,000,000 pregnancies that are diagnosed in the U.S. every year — 50 percent of which are unintended. This is called induced abortion. " That would be a maximum of 1,500,000 abortions per year. Still an unsettling number. Most vehement opponents are just as strongly against any form of contraception, but they softpedal that position because it's offensive to about 85% of the populace. Now who's the hypocrite?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55624Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:06:14 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55624John Doe, The Peanut GalleryRyan Nebraska - You continually try to sidetrack a conversation about the occupation of Iraq into a debate about the morality of abortion. I will make you a deal. You tell me how cherry picking intelligence to manipulate the country into a bigger quagmire than Viet Nam is moral. You tell me how leaving New Orleans in its current state for over two years, causing untold suffering (some of those people are Christians by the way) is a moral act. You tell me how covering up a Repuplican pedophile in the halls of Congress is a moral act. Tell me how cutting veteran's benefits while screaming "support the troops!" is a moral act. Tell me how slashing medicaid and medicare - a service that our societies most vulnerable members rely on for basic medical care - while trying to make tax cuts for the top 1% of Americans permanent is a moral act. If you want to base your values vote on one issue go ahead. But if you want to play "let's compary the poltical party's values" game, Democrats win every day of the week and twice on Sunday. PS> Abortion is wrong. But so is telling a 16 year old who made a mistake that her life and all of her hopes and dreams are now over because of that mistake. That's my opinion anyway.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55645Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:20:40 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55645Chris, Abilene, TX!, I figured you'd come back with something saying "ever been in the service?". And yet, those who are in the service saying what I'm saying are often told "well, just because you're in the service doesn't mean anything"...blah blah blah. Let me guess, you're going to come back and say "you don't know anything because you never served". Fine, just goes to demonstrate how much you don't know.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55648Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:23:14 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55648Chris, Abilene, TXMad Mike, thanks. I think if most of the people on here would go to an Army post, or go to an FOB, they'd get a VERY different viewpoint. It's easy to sit here in the US and SEARCH for vets who are disgruntled and then believe that 80% of those in the military or served feel the same way. It's more likely the other way around. ! said that he thinks the vast majority of the troops would drop their arms and go home if given the choice...I say NO WAY.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55652Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:26:21 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55652Vridar, Seattle, WaRyan from Michigan: I think your comments re. right and left need to be modified. Both conservatives and liberals live in a world of gray with a little black and white. Conservatives just delude themselves into believing otherwise. They gravitate to black and white characterizations of the very complicated, nuanced problems in our world b/c it makes their heads hurt to think about them in a more sophisticated way. Plain and simple. Furthermore, regarding the abortion debate, who deemed conception to be the point at which human life begins? Could one not argue that it begins at the formation of the egg or sperm, both containing half the genome of a fetus? Could human life begin at about 4-5 months gestation, when the nervous system comes online, that is, when the fetus becomes aware of the world around them (and perhaps when what Catholic doctrine calls ensoulment happens)? The fact is, no one knows when life begins. Jesus, unfortunately, did not take a position on this issue... at all! He did not mention it once, even tangentially. If you argue that such issues simply did not exist in His time then we should all admit the Bible is less than comprehensive and an imperfect guide for moral living in the 21st century. So fine, the Bible doesn't mention abortion, per se, tell me what material contained in it will give me guidance in evaluating when, exactly, human life begins so that I know when it is and is not ok to snuff it out. E.g., am I killing if I masturbate? If I have an abortion at 3 mos. or at 6 mos.? You people on the right need to accept the fact that even your God has not answered these questions unequivocally, so your surety regarding your belief that all abortion is murder is unfounded. And Ryan, you should read your Bible, and Deuteronomy specifically. The punishment for causing the death of a pregnant women is outlined. Death is the sentence if the woman dies and a minor fine is required if the fetus dies. This does not, to me, seem as if God (and I'm an atheist so I mean the figment of your imagination called God), thinks that a fetus and a human life have equivalent moral standing. Certainly, he does not expect us to live up to standards He does not, does he? Important to note, as well, that the fact that there was, indeed, a punishment for killing the fetus in Deuteronomy. This can mean one of two things: 1) God, indeed, accords the fetus moral standing or 2) punishment for death of the fetus is a way of avenging the loss suffered by the woman and has nothing whatever to do with avenging the death of the fetus. I suspect the latter to be the case. Regardless, Ryan, your postion and that of others like you is not supported by your own religious text. Certainly, the Bible does not obsess about this matter like modern Christians do. I only wish abortions-zealots would spend as much time advocating for the poor like Jesus did. Why don't you Pro-lifers take the time to actually read "the Word" as Jesus instructed you instead of having it spoon-fed to you by your preacher and maybe your priorities might come more in line with Jesus' and not those of the modern religious-industrial complex. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55672Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:34:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55672Chris, Abilene, TXJohn Doe, to be fair, the intelligence Bush used to go into Iraq existed for years before he ever became President. On another note, I agree with you that abortion is wrong, but we can't just let single moms get run over either. There has to be a "better way".http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55673Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:34:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55673Robert Catalano, Salem, ORIf only Boehner had given as much passion to making sure the Congree did its checks and balances job instead of annointing Bush the Mad.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55690Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:48:55 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55690gordy HallThe crocodile tears from the GOP about 'sacrifice' is as meaningful as their lack of willingness to open the topic up to real debate. The GOP is not interested in the Iraqi people, and they are not interested in democracy. They offer nothing new, and no real reason for our being an occupying army oppressing the population of Iraq.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55704Tue, 13 Feb 2007 23:03:56 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55704Tiffany, NMHear, hear, John Doe. Well said.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55710Tue, 13 Feb 2007 23:10:00 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55710Ryan NeWell John Doe if that is your real name, if you call cherry picking recieving intellegence about WMD in Iraq, giving that information to all the decision makers in the govt. both dems and reps alike and then deciding to go to war supported by both parties. As far as New Orleans is concerned that would be everyone involved taking the blame for that, it was and still is failure on all levels to do what needs to be done to clean up N.O. I personally will not back somebody solely on political lines and I understand clearly that there are shady characters on both sides. I also dont think that little 16 year old girl dreams would be over, thats a pretty bleak way of looking at it. I guess it boils down to weather we want to make people resposible fot their actions or do we want to continue with this it feels good do it mentallity. My fiance had her daughter when she was 16, and not only were her hopes and dream not destroyed, her daughter became her hopes and dreams. I would hate to see the world through your pesimistic eyes John Doe and I certainly couldnt imagine life without that beautiful little girl.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55717Tue, 13 Feb 2007 23:15:39 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55717John Doe, The Peanut GalleryChris, Abilene - That intel did indeed exist for years prior to this administartion. But it was this adminstration that chose to take that intel and present it -out of context- to justify an incredibly ill advised war. As for single mothers being "run over", I am not sure what you mean. I would say that a 16 year old (or really any woman who may not be planning a child) caring an accidental pregnancy to term is not a bad thing. However, FORCING women to cary unwanted pregnancies to term most definately is not a good thing. Abortion should be legal, safe, and, most of all, rare.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55735Tue, 13 Feb 2007 23:30:20 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55735Mad Mike Proud Army VetChris, Abilene, TX Good points all of them. Many on this blog would be laughed out of a military blog. The majority of thos who post here are very similar to those who oppsed WW2 or even as recently Reagan's victory over the U.S.S.R. They just don't get it and you really don't hear a lot about those who opposed the aforementioned wars just like you won't hear a lot from these people after we experiance victory in Iraq. So until then I reccomend you just sit back and amuse yourself with them like I do. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55795Wed, 14 Feb 2007 00:21:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55795Rufus Gibbons, Kennett, Mo.Since this has been turned into a debate on abortion I will make one simple statement IF ROE v WADE IS OVERTURNED IT WILL SPLIT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WIDE OPEN!!!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55796Wed, 14 Feb 2007 00:22:20 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55796Still Crazy After All These YearsThe original topic was about Rep. Boehner and the Iraq war. Since I cannot follow the logic from there to talking about abortion, I have decided I am.....http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55801Wed, 14 Feb 2007 00:29:13 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55801!Chris - put words in my mouth and then tell me how wrong they are. Learn that from the master, himself? "Denigrate. Obfuscate. Reiterate." Tell Karl I said: "Go Cheney yourself."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55804Wed, 14 Feb 2007 00:30:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55804Seattle SueMad Mike--Welcome back. I thought you had been incarnated by some of the new names here that name call and insult. You keep asking for facts but I have not seen many facts from your posting. I believe in the past I have blown some of your facts right out of the water.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55842Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:05:20 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55842John Doe, The Peanut GalleryRyan NE, Of course my name isn't John Doe. I would've thought that was kind of obvious. If you think that the intel that was presented was true, I would like to sell you a bridge. It takes a special kind of ideological paralysis to continue to support this adminstration's policies on almost every level. I am, however, very happy that fiance found purpose in her life through her children. I would like to suggest, though, that not everyone is in a situation where being FORCED to have a child is productive or wise. That you would attempt to impose your beliefs on others, in direct contravention of establish law, is somewhat disturbing in this day an age. As always, just my opinions.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55846Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:07:57 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55846Mark Thieme"...I reccomend (sic)you just sit back and amuse yourself with them like I do." Mad Proud and Whatever, may I ask with what sir, you are sitting back and amusing yourself? Is it cold in there?http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55850Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:11:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55850sandy, san francisco, caDoes this orange colored snake think for one minute that anyone is buying his "tears"? What's he going to do next...hold his breath on the house floor until he gets his way? Please..http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55920Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:38:05 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55920Mad Mike Proud Army VetSeattle Sue it always seems to amaze you that those with differing opinions come back for a nice visit now and then. Now to your point, you have never blown any of my views out of the water but by that statement you help support my statement that you guys are nuts still love you, you are my fellow citizens no matter how miguided you are . Either way good to hear from you again and thanks, for the warm welcome back. Why I left for a while? I had to get back to the real world, after posting here for a while. Any who I'll pop up every now and again just to keep you guys grounded. See you when I see you...http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#55962Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:48:44 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:55962John Boehner, HellHi everyone this is John Boehner and I have to set the record straight. I never meet a lobbyist I didn't like and love a good golf outing (if I'm not paying for it). As for the tears I shed today well they say DC is Hollywood for ugly people and well I'm not in Hollywood. So you do the math. I love all the good work I've done my time here in DC. Some of my most notable work has been cutting Financial aid for children to attend college. I worked on Medicare and co wrote the bill with the drug companies so you the taxpayer can pay the bill. I increased my pork barrel spending by over 200 Billion in the 109th congress and stick you the taxpayer once again with the bill. I injected myself into the Terry Schiavo case in order to please my loyal followers. Even though I know it was a family matter but I still felt the need to get involved in order to get votes. I guess I didn't get as many as I thought I would given the 06 results. But in closing I want to ask you for your vote because I care about the middle class in this country. I really do. Don't look at my voting record that doesn't matter. What matters is the money I make from lobbyist....I mean all the good work I do and will keep doing. Just vote for me and I promise I will lead America straight to Hell.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56000Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:57:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56000God, Heaven, I'll do the Judging around here.All: The "right" to abort babies is the sacrament of the Democrat Party. Any arguments? Says D in her Previous post. Uh D I hate to break the news to you but your darling John Mcain, Rudy G., And Mitt R. All support abortion rights. Nice try though. Maybe you should brush up on your facts before you post because it makes you look uninformed and foolish. Go back to watching American Idol this way you don't have to think much.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56004Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:58:14 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56004Ryan NEI was joking about the name, say hi to Jane. Still Crazy how much dicussion could there really be about this article, the response was nothing but bashing from the left so I thought I would bring up a more pertinant issue to dicuss. Hey Mad Proud I know exactly what amusing, its to bad Mark dosent get it, but if he did it would no longer be amusing. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56041Wed, 14 Feb 2007 02:06:41 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56041Jane, Southern MississippiRyan, NE, I think your party is like the pharisees. They will strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Jesus didn't particulary like them, did he? Read your Bible.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56073Wed, 14 Feb 2007 02:12:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56073Mad Mike Proud Army VetMark Thieme ommmm... not sure where you're going with that last post but I just can't relate... I mean it's warmer where I live than the rest of the country (record cold weather and everything)...must be that whole global warming thing. If you are amusing yourself in the cold and you don't like it I suggest you turn up your theromostat either way I wish you luck with your issues...LOL. Now for the real issue of this post while I don't agree with Rudy on his take with abortion I do agree that it is a woman's right to choose. A lot of Conservatives and Independants will agree with that view and many will support that same view even if they disagree with it just because of the weak candidates the Dems seem to have. I really thought Obama was someone I could support (because I look beyond party politics unlike those who post here) until he said our soldiers died in vain. Regardless of his apology that's just wrong. So it remains to be seen how things for him progress from here... http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56159Wed, 14 Feb 2007 02:36:24 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56159Blacksheep, Pope County, Ar.Perhaps some of the posters from the extreme right that wish to change the subject would like to comment of this statement. A large number of wars and murders of innocents in countries that have been attacked and defeated by other nations have been headed by individuals professing to be christians! Is this what the christian right would call moral? How many people must die for the christian right to fulfill their goal of world control? Who is more moral the Iraq that beleives in his god or the American leader that claims to beleive in his? Abortion immoral, to decide that would depend of who decides what is and is not moral, perhaps those that consider it immoral and in fact immoral in thier own perception, perhaps morals are best left to the individual to decide? Cut and run from Iraq, no, allow them to now decide their own fate, would that not be the moral thing to do? Personally, I feel abortion is wrong, however, do I (or should I) have the right to tell my neighbor what they can or can't do in thier personal lives? Agree with or disagree with what I write is your choice!http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56295Wed, 14 Feb 2007 04:15:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56295Nick, OhioRyan, you have once again side-tracked the issue, just like every other Bush supporter. Don't avoid the subject at-hand... Iraq. Bush is trying very hard to have a positive legacy. I pity the man because he is so sad and such a pawn and is only concerned about one thing... power. Bush cannot care about the right-wing causes for "Christian" values. If he did, he would have stayed out of Iraq. Boehner was really crying because the GOP lost control of the House and has no realistic candidate for 2008 that can match anyone on the Democratic side. We really don't know what will occur in 2008, but I can be sure of one thing... if the war in Iraq continues to drag on & on & on, the US electorate will soundly trounce anyone who is in favor of it. Bring our troops home, begin talks with Iran, Syria and the Saudis and the horror in Iraq. No military power can solve the issue with just a military. The Bush clan must think the US public is pretty stupid and I have to agree. Protesting against evil is what our country is all about... the ability to speak your mind without fear of recrimination. We may not agree, but we have the right to disagree. Don't let that right be taken away from us. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56443Wed, 14 Feb 2007 07:02:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56443Ivan, NYCMad Mike Proud Army Vet: You speak of "Reagan's victory over the U.S.S.R." as if it's ahistorical given. You should remember that the USSR bankrupted itself, financially and politically, fighting an unneccessary and costly war of choice in Afghanistan. Read the news from the era. Even the citizens of the authoritarian USSR balked at the cost of the war in wasted human lives; thousands of Russian Cindy Sheehans bravely defied a totalitarian state and kept their sons from serving pointlessly, which was the first broad assault on the authority of the Soviet Empire. Ronald Reagan had nothing do do with that, but it changed the rules of the game; suddenly, the USSR could be questioned. Chances are you celebrated that opposition, if you followed the news. (I'm confident you celebrated the news reports of US-armed Mujahadeen downing Soviet helicopters in Afghanistan.) So that only addresses the war's social cost in the USSR; more importantly, Afghanistan bankrupted the USSR financially, not your hero Ronald Reagan. So go ahead: invoke and worship Reagan - but ignore history at your peril. Bush's Iraq is no different from Brezhnev's Afghanistan. Love! Ivan :) http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56446Wed, 14 Feb 2007 07:07:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56446Ivan, NYCReviewing posts from earlier... Mad Mike and Chris TX, I was in southern Iraq (non-Green Zone) between November 2003-April 2004. My opinions reflect that experience. I disagree with both of you from the bottom of my heart.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56476Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:03:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56476Andy DeKalb IlDon't feed the trolls. Come on people. Let's discuss the topic at hand.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56492Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:25:45 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56492Steve Althouse Jonesboro IN 46938What a bunch of sick drama. So 'boner' got all teary eyed as he chearleads this sick war perpetrated by a bunch of draft dodging cowards, including himself. Best way to end this war would be send everyone in Washington in favor of this disaster to fight in it.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56493Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:36:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56493Rick, South DakotaRight on Ryan! You, I and every other and every other Roe v Wade survivor understand what you are saying. We have an all volunteer military, everyone who signed up knew they may be ordered into harms way. Not one murdered, aborted child had a say in the matter. 48 million dead and still counting every day. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56512Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:43:44 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56512Mad Mike Proud Army VetIvan, NYC were you serving in the military while ou were in the non-Green Zone? If so thanks for your service, if not then nevermind. So let's see, the US was funding Afghanistan and we were competing in the "Arms Race". Russia in trying to keep pace was doing the same as well as fighting a war we were helping to fund. So I think it is you who has twisted history. Reagan beat the Soviets by bankrupting them regardless of how much they spent on their war the fact is they had to try and keep pace with us and Reagan knew that. Being the great visionary he was he put the heat on and drove the commies out of business. Sorry if you don't want to give him the credit he's due but many Americans and history happen to undersatnd those facts and know that's what eneded the cold war. So again the left is on the wrong side of the war.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56531Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:06:20 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56531!Blacksheep, Pope County, Ar. You sir are not only misinformed but you have the wrong demographic. The posters you are viewing on this blog and reffering to as extreme right wingers are moderates that's how far gone most of you are on this blog you don't even know who you're talking to. Also, while Christianity is responsible for it's share of wars it's funny how everyone seems to forget how Islam can be manipulated. It's happening right now with the terrorists. The whole reason for the Crusades was Muslims had by force and brutality taken the holy land of Jerusalem. The crusdaes started becuase the Roman Catholics went to take back the holy land of Jerusalem from the Muslims. How many innocent lives had to be sacraficed for a war that would have never happened if the Muslims had not invaded Europe on the pretense of Islam? They were at one point threatening to take all of Europe but that was back when countries in Europe weren't afraid to fight for themselves. If it wasn't for the crusades we'd all be Muslims right now there would be no Christianity. I have nothing against the religion of Islam but if you think the Christian religion is stringent why don't you compare it to the teachings of Islam, big difference.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56541Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:18:39 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56541Mark ThiemeAndy, Dekalb: thanks for outing the snarky poseurs. If one is going to dance the dance, it is good to make sure one's fly is not open.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56896Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:22:10 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56896Susan, NebraskaRyan, I just read your blog, and I have to say I am disappointed at the spin you have put on the abortion issue. Pro choice or not has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat, it is about a woman having the choice. Period. And trying to spin it into anything other than that, that Democrats don't care about innocent lives is irresponsible to say the least. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#56959Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:12:49 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:56959Susan, NebraskaOMG if I hear one more Republican say "both sides agreed to go to war", I AM GOING TO SCREAM. Democrats and Republicans voted to support the war in Iraq BECAUSE THEY WERE LIED TO. Period end of report. The majority have said they NEVER would have voted if they were not manipulated into believing that Iraq was an imminent danger. Bush used the catastrophe of 9/11 to prey on the citizens of the United States at their most vulnerable emotional state. Because of the shock and devestation of that horrible day, we would have believed that the great state of Maine was behind it if he would have showed us enough pictures and told us they were. He is OUR Commander in Chief and is to be believed when he speaks. That is what we are predispositioned to believe. Unfortunately he has taken that trust pissed it away. DO NOT BLAME AMERICANS OR CONGRESS for the lies that George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Colin Powell, and Donald Rumsfeld told. We believed them because that is what we have been taught to do. Powell showed pictures and said the weapons of mass destruction are here, here, and here. WHY WOULD WE HAVE QUESTIONED THAT??? If only we knew then what we know now. . . . . over 3,000 americans would still be alive. The men I mentioned above should all be tried as war criminals. If there is any question to that, look up Article 6 of the Constitution. It is in black and white. Although I do recognize that there are still Bush backers who are tap dancing in the grey. God Bless our Sons and Daughters in harms way and may we find an immediate and definate way to bring them home safely and soon.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#57036Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:27:42 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:57036Carrie, NW IowaRyan (NE, I think) - You said "First of all laws are based on morals; murder, rape, sexual assault and you can go on and on." Not true. Those laws are based on depriving living, breathing, viable human beings of something to which they are entitled under the law. Life, personal autonomy (i.e. not having to submit to unwanted sexual advances)...and I could go on and on. The legal system is based on the premise that everyone is entitled to life, liberty and property - if you interfere with someone else's rights in those respects, you pay, either in criminal or civil court. These rights are not based on morality, but more on natural law - that every person born unto this Earth has a right to these things, and those who take them away must be held accountable. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#57751Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:41:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:57751Ryan(other), Tucson AZ Ryan Nebraska - "Its typical again of the left to deflect any real ansewer or solutions," You're posting on the wrong topic. The folks on this board aren't changing the topic, you are. Please consider that that fact has some influence on the responses you receive. "Not one of you has explained to me how abortion is moral." Not one of us has made that claim, either. That's your own strawman. The government shouldn't have a right to dictate people's medical choices. In the same way that charity does not consist of giving someone else's money away via government programs (as too many here seem to believe), morality does not consist of appropriating someone else's body for ostensibly 'moral' purposes. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#203471Fri, 25 May 2007 00:25:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:203471Mike, NY, NYPathetic clown. Shedding tears over what? Over continuing an illegal, immoral,unnecessary war of aggression (a war crime according to Nuremberg) against a country that posed no threat to us (and that we have destroyed and totally ruined) on the basis of lies so that Bush's oil cronies could steal Iraq's oil. Tears indeed, for we have no shame.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/13/55006.aspx#606125Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:25:41 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:606125Jonah B - Fredericksburg, VAYou know what...you people make me angry - you who point fingers and dismiss the feelings of others.  Perhaps this guy is really feeling it - maybe he really does care and you who have become jaded are really just pointing fingers as a projection of your own issues.  Cut the man a break - jeeze