Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Juan Mota, Albany, NY — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:38:40 GMT

I have two questions:

(1) On September 11, 2001 our State (New York) should have been guarded by our militia. Our government says that our Constitutional mandated militia is our State National Guard. If so, why did, and still do our NY State air National Guard supply our scientific base in Antarctica instead of guarding our skies. So, the argument is that because our state failed to do its constitutional duty on September 11, our government took our NYS Guard oversees. So, New York was vulnerable on 911 and is now more vulnerable.

(2) We are a nation that allow our children to read Animal Farm, Brave New World, etc.. George Washington refused to be King when asked. In Iowa we learned that our votes could not be bought. Iowa wanted to coronate no King. New Hampshire said the same. New Hampshire liked Obama, but said we would not coronate Iowa’s choice. In 2000 we were asked by our ex president to elect his son (the prince) to be king and we did. Then we were surprised when the king proceeded to create his empire. Now in 2008 we are asked by the ex president Clinton to vote Senator Clinton to be King, what is the difference, why should we elect a dynasty?

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:43:56 GMT

I have to say this; there were no clumsy statements made by Hillary's people.
What happened, was that Hillary spoke about President Johnsons' The Civil Rights Bill being the means by which Martin Luther King was able to realize his "dream." The Obama campaign saw it as an opportunity to pull out the race card, and that's exactly what they did.
If this kind of stuff is the "change" that Obama would bring, he can keep it.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:47:13 GMT

By the way, is Russert going to attack Hillary again tonight? That seems to be all the man knows how to do.
Maybe he'll have the balls to ask Obama what he's going to change, and how he's going to change it.
So far no one's had the courage to do that.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

ki houston — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:47:38 GMT

the clintons are killing there legacy

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Nashville_fan — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:50:52 GMT

I find it disturbing that Senator Clinton, Bill Clinton, and many of their supporters continue to repeatedly attack Senator Obama personally and professionally, misconstrue his voting record, and literally put words in his mouth that he never said, and all the media says is "both sides are going back and forth".

Nothing could be further from the truth, and yet the mirage is created that Senator Obama is just as gulity. It is ridiculous, it is dishonest, and it is a sad commentary on politics in America.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Democratic American — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:53:24 GMT

I hope this puts an end to the race and gender issue at least until the we have a democratic candidate. I also hope that both Clintion supporters and Obama supporters will get away from personal attacks and moved toward the accomplishments of their own candidate. Please quit telling us how much of a boogie monster the opponent is and tell us what merit your candidate has. We keep hearing about these clean campaigns but have yet to see it in the comments at least. Unless you personally have yourself interacted with a candidate in a negative way what you are saying is hearsay. Even if you have personal experience with a candidate please supply only the politically relevant facts. And if you are a democrat and do not support the eventual winner you are being short sighted and part of the problem not the solution. The fact is that all the candidates share the same fundamental beliefs. That is why we are in the same party. Demonizing one is only belittling our party as a whole. We all know no one is perfect, not ourselves not the candidates and yet there are a lot of stones flying through the air. Your glass house could shatter too.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Rep0X — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:56:24 GMT

“‘How race got into this thing is because Obama said “race,”’ Mr. Rangel said on the NY1 cable channel. ‘I would challenge anybody to belittle the contribution that Dr. King has made to the world, to our country, to civil rights, and the Voting Rights Act. But for him to suggest that Dr. King could have signed that act is absolutely stupid.”

--------------------------------------------------

Are U kidding me?

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Enrique, Chicago, IL — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:56:44 GMT

National polls are showing Hillary ahead of Barack yet all we're hearing and reading about are attacks from Hillary, Bill and their supporters on Obama and distortiions of his record.

Rangel's comments yesterday are a clear indication that Hillary does not intend to honor the truce with Obama. This is exactly why she is so polarizing and has such high negatives.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

AP from IL — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:58:38 GMT

Obama shows the class and maturity to call a truce to an argument he didn't even start. It was various black leaders who made an issue of the Clinton's remarks. Obama had nothing to do with it and yet he took slam after slam from Hillary and her supporters without losing his cool.

Hillary may be alot older and more "experienced" but she's mostly acting like a big baby. The Nevada lawsuit against the Culinary Union is the latest dirty trick. For months the offsight caucusing of casino workers as been planned with no complaints from anyone until suddenly, she doesn't get the endorsement. Now, mysteriously, there is a lawsuit.

I honestly don't know how you can look at Obama and Clinton and not see the difference in character. After two terms of Bush, I want to be proud of my president again. Not ashamed and disgusted.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Robert — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:00:59 GMT

I am so sick of the Clintons. They are corrupt, power-hungry, and have only ever been the 51% candidates. Bill Clinton was a 51% consensus President. What that means is he feels comfortable leaving every institution of exploitation in place in our country, everything from trade to subsidies, waging war, you name it. But then he throws a bone to his liberal base that helped him get elected and spends 51% of his time helping them. He forfeits 49% of his presidency to the highest bidder and then gives 51% to his base. I guess some could call that change, and hey the Presidency is intended by law to be a slow moving ship that can only steer a few degrees in one direction or another, that's what staves off disaster if we have a horrible president. So Clinton will balance the budget, throw a few bones, he'll put a band-aid on the problems we have and make us feel good with his Camelot speeches, but in the end the status quo will stay the same. Our country has reached a point where we need more than a 51% leader, our ship has hit a bog and it will require more force than that mundane 2% margin to get out of it. I apologize for the barrage of metaphors but I'm trying to save time and most of you who are informed about the Clintons know what I mean. The best candidates in my view are Mike Huckabee, John Edwards, Barack Obama, period. I usually write with more tact but as the election grows nearer, and with this latest Clinton scumbag maneuver in Nevada I am just so frustrated and I'm starting to lose heart. Even McCain is starting to take over in the Republican side. I just feel like the parties dangle change in our faces and we get excited about a new and genuine candidate and then whoosh, the establishment comes in and steals it from us. Maybe Adam Smith was right, the people, the "Bewildered herd", are meant to be just spectators. At this point, I would bet my bottom dollar on either Clinton, Romney or McCain being president, all establishment douchebags. This sucks

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Steve, Hartford, CT — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:02:29 GMT

"I just want to make sure that this doesn't end up personal," Obama said. "We've got too much at stake at this time in our history to be engaging in this kind of silliness."

Hear, hear!

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Adam/Brooklyn New York City — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:06:53 GMT

The tone of this race is getting sickening, it's turning into a suffering contest. It is not becoming of a Democratic Primary. Should I remind everyone that Chris Rock predictec this almost a year ago? Who has suffered more? The Black Man or the White Woman?

Democrats shouldn't even care, leave it to the Republicans to fight out such petty nonsense. Discussions like these are mush more becoming of Bush and Rove and not Clinton and Obama. I'm ashamed as a liberal that Clinton and their supporters keep pushing this.

But sadly, I think this is another distraction tactic that the American people invariably fall for. If we're fighting amongst ourseleves we tend not to notice "The Tower".

The Bush/Clinton Era needs to end. America deserves a much better fate.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Gary L. Cross — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:09:53 GMT

I feel we should be discussing more important issues like economy, health care, education, helping the middle class, ending the war in Iraq, eliminating loopholes regarding loss of jobs to foreign countries and keeping jobs in America by eliminating unfair trade agreements like NAFTA. The American people do not support racial discrimination.I am more concerned about securing our borders and eliminating illegal immigration.Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton better focus on securing our borders and preventing illegal immigration. I am totally against amnesty. I believe any candidate who supports amnesty will lose the presidential election.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

tony t,nj — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:10:08 GMT

With all the clinton bashing that is going on, I can feel that every woman,mother sisters,wives that were marginalized and given less than the respect they deserve at home or at work will see to it that their voices will be heard. and all the non racial statements made by the the clintons themselves that the Obama camp and the media had tried to twist into a racial issue will backfire on the Obama camp.I for one will stand with the people who stood with me for the last 20 years than with Obama,he compares himself to MLK after 2 unenventful years in the senate. Mr Obama, you were not attacks ,jailed or shot for your ideas,YOUR NO MLK.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Frank Stoppenbach, Red Hook, NY — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:15:03 GMT

The judicial decision forcing MSNBC to open the debate to Dennis Kucinich deserved a headline, and the article should not have used derogatory and exaggerated terms ("far left","pacifist") in referring to him, none of which are correct.

Several news articles have pointed out that that Dennis Kucinich's views (such as ending the Iraq war, Single Payer health care, redoing trade deals) represent those of a majority of Democrats. Further, he supports a strong military, but prefers, as do most who have served in the military, to use force as a last resort, putting more emphasis on avoiding the need for conflicts and on diplomacy.

Suppressing views does not make their validity or the people's desire for them go away, but causes loss of faith in the institutions doing or condoning the suppression.

See for yourself - The Kucinich website is http://www.dennis4president.com/home/

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Mark S, NC — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:15:07 GMT

J. Merle,

Once again, you've put out this falsehood that Obama or his surrogates started this debate, or, as you put it, "pull(ed) out the race card." It's simply not true, and this can be categorically demonstrated. The racial questions were raised by Jim Clyburn and Donna Brazile, neither of whom are affiliated with the Obama campaign in any way. I do not condone the direction this conversation has gone in recent days, but I certainly would not blame Obama for injecting race into the debate--he didn't say word one about it until the day before yesterday. At least, while admirably defending your candidate (who herself spread these untruths on MTP), have the intellectual honesty to recognize and note the facts.

Also, I must point out that Obama has repeatedly talked about what and how he would "change" if he were to be elected, both in terms of policy and process. You know, a lot of us Obama supporters are not stupid, nor would we allow ourselves to be led sheeplike to slaughter. If you want to learn more, do a simple google search, or even easier, check out his website. I doubt, however, that you actually or honestly care about anything Obama has said or done; you only want to see him defeated because he has dared to challenge the right of succession of Hillary Clinton to the presidency.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

jerry/corpus christi texas — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:15:27 GMT

Rep. Dennis Kucinich was on his way to winning a legal challenge to NBC's decision to exclude him from the debate, making it possible a field of four will appear. The far-left pacifist isn't seen as having a chance at the nomination.”

You mean the DailyKOS people have no say in the democratic party anymore?????? That would start a riot with those nutburgers.....

Late yesterday evening, Clinton issued a ceasefire statement of sorts as well. "Clinton quickly said she had meant no slight, and on Monday she issued a statement proposing a truce. At about the same time, though, a prominent supporter of hers, Representative Charles B. Rangel, Democrat of New York, said in an interview that Mr. Obama was ‘absolutely stupid’ for calling Mrs. Clinton’s original remark ill-advised.

Kind of hard to call a truce when the rest of her gang is out to get Obama....

Since Hillary has figured out that having to answer the tough questions is how you win the election, maybe she won't go into her "weeping Wanda" moment when Russert really gets into her statement of MLK and LBJ.

(We've had a number of women anecdotally tell us its easier for the media to be sexist than racist.)

How true....

"Are you concerned it could split the party?" NBC's Lee Cowan asked Obama during the interview.

"Well I think that if you have candidates who try to exploit it, I think it could," Obama said. "That's not something I've done and I'm assuming that's not what Sen. Clinton intends to do either."

I think Hillary has already done that and that has been the plan for a long time......

"Clinton advisers said that they were trying to simply undercut Obama on his merits. They added that it is far from certain that racially controversial attacks would work against Obama; if anything, they said, they feared the episode could backfire against them."

I think that started when Bill Clinton said that Obama hasn't done enough "spadework".....

I'm shocked Al Sharpton didn't try to do him the way he did Don Imus....

But then again, Al Sharpton doesn't want a war with the Clinton's. He would be really out of his league in that fight.....

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Matt Devine, Atlanta — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:17:05 GMT

the clintons are killing there legacy

ki houston

It actually looks like they are continuing their legacy of intimidation.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Frank Stoppenbach, Red Hook, NY — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:18:13 GMT

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

aw, ft lauderdale florida — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:20:27 GMT

from the Clinton for President Website - least there be any doubt who is behind the lawsuit to disenfranchise voters (who do not endorse her)

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/relea...

"7/16/2007
Leaders in Education Endorse Clinton for President
Hillary Clinton today received the endorsement of a group of Nevada officials known for their leadership in education -- longtime Clark County School District official and current State Senator Joyce Woodhouse, Nevada System of Higher Education Regents Cedric Crear and Thalia Dondero, and Nevada State Education Association (NSEA) Deputy Executive Director Debbie Cahill."

"These four great leaders -- Joyce, Cedric, Thalia and Debbie -- bring diverse community experiences and networks to our campaign," said Clinton Nevada Chair Rory Reid. "They share Senator Clinton's commitment to making our education system strong and accessible at all levels, so that every American can fulfill his or her potential. We are extremely gratified for their support."

Nevada State Education Association is the Plantiff in the suit --
we just went through 7 years of not taking responsibility ---

Let's move on
Obama '08

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Anna — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:22:11 GMT

I am looking forward to hearing from Kucinich in the debate. Who wants to watch Obama and Clinton bicker, and Edwards pretending to be a progressive.
Lets hear from the candidate for the people. I want to hear Hillary defend her votes to spend more tax dollars on war, killing our servicemen, sending 2 million refugees out of Iraq for those mysterious WMD, or was it for Iraqi Freedom?

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Marc Andersen — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:27:44 GMT

Poor MSNBC. So geared up to provoke democratic implosion through race and gender that they let Kucinich in the door. Dennis is going to knock it out of the park, and NBC will be left wondering how else they can use their billions to squash Dennis and democracy. NBC really disrespects democracy.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Sandra Guerard, Richmond, VA — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:32:52 GMT

I have certainly been distressed in the last few days that such an important election primary campaign has seemed moved from the important issues to mudslingling on gender and ethnicity. Supporters of each of the candidates need to CUT IT OUT!

I have been equally distressed by the emails I have received from folks that are ill-informed, incorrect or downright nasty regarding both Sen. Obama and Sen. Clinton. Disgusting. Now I just hit delete!

The rhetoric from the media during the New Hampshire debates has toned down, thank goodness! Although I am an Obama supporter, I was very angry with the way the pundits piled on Sen Clinton on NH primary night. O.K., so you were tired and giddy---but that is no excuse! Some objectivity, please.

As an older woman with a PhD, I have huge respect for Sen. Clinton and her achievements. I fully expected that I would vote for a qualified female candidate, if that was ever an option during my lifetime! However, Sen. Obama, who is highly qualified and strikes me as a "uniter" and one who is better able to work with both sides of the aisle, and who carries less "baggage", will get my vote if he is the Democratic candidate.

Voters, let's not diminish ourselves by descending into namecalling and mudslingling (you too MEDIA). Let us stick to the issues and listen to what all of the candiadtes are saying---and VOTE.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Susan, MA — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:33:40 GMT

If ever there were a situation where both sides ought to just shut up --- this race debate is it. But life isn't like that. You can't put the genie back in to the bottle. The only good that might come from this discussion is reminding all of us ---- we've come a long way but racial tensions haven't disappeared. Years of anger and misunderstanding have left a mark that we still need to face. Looking at it honestly is the only hope.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Nashville_fan — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:37:19 GMT

tony t, nj wrote:
Mr Obama, you were not attacks ,jailed or shot for your ideas,YOUR NO MLK

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
First of all, Hillary Clinton was not shot or attacked for her ideas either. Why should Senator Obama be held to a different standard?

Second of all, do you have to be shot at to validate your view point?

Lastly, are you really going to give Hillary Clinton a free pass on her LOW, LOW, LOW BALL politics of intimitadation and misinformation because Senator Clinton is a woman? Is that really the ONLY thing that matters?

Hillary Clinton is not running for President as a strong, independent, self made woman with her own ideas and platforms. Hillary Clinton is running for co-president with former two-term president Bill Clinton. Last time I checked, that was still unconstitutional.

Oh well, why let the constitution get in the way - no other laws, written or unwritten, seem to matter in the case of the Clintons. They are special.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Kaye Billings, Jacksonville, FL — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:38:56 GMT

Give me a break it's the self-righteous Obama types who think they don't have to be accountable that are screwing up this race. Good looks, smooth talking, and lack of experience doesn't entitle Obama for a free ride. If he can stand getting criticized for his shortcomings he needs to take his elitist butt out of the race.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Nathan, Cincinnati, Ohio — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:44:36 GMT

Let Kucinich debate, for God's sake. Why spend the time and energy and money opposing it? What's to be gained by excluding him? More choices, more voices. And we all know he'll likely liven things up with some comment or other.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Sierra, SF — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:45:17 GMT

An explanation for the Clintons race baiting
It's DELIBERATE and CALCULATED

'....Thomas B. Edsall
The Huffington Post
Bombs Away: Democratic Race Becomes War Of Invective
January 14, 2008 08:47 AM

The dramatic escalation of hostilities Sunday in the
fight for the Democratic presidential nomination
suggests that Senator Hillary Clinton and her
strategists are convinced they can win a war of
invective and that in such a conflict they will
prevail because her liabilities are already well
known, while rival Barack Obama's are not yet public
and have not been subjected to close examination.

The Democratic contest entered a dangerous new stage
as Clinton initiated an all-out assault Sunday,
directly accusing Barack Obama of failing to be
consistent in his opposition to the Iraq war. Clinton
also stood by at a South Carolina rally as one of her
prominent campaign surrogates, Black Entertainment
Television founder Robert L. Johnson, raised the issue of Obama's past cocaine use and suggested that the Illinois Senator's views on race are as naïve as
Sidney Poitier's in the 1967 movie "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner."

With contests in Nevada and South Carolina coming over the next two weeks and so-called "Tsunami Tuesday" scheduled for February 5 when 22 states will hold primaries and caucuses, the Clinton campaign clearly concluded that drastic and immediate action was necessary to take and hold the advantage.

A just-released ABC/Washington Post survey shows Obama picking up support in virtually every demographic group, including among such Clinton mainstay constituencies as single women. Obama has now won over a decisive majority of black voters who could play crucial roles in many southern contests, including the January 26 South Carolina Democratic primary.....'

Think about THAT !
The Republicans aren't SLIMEY ENOUGH to play the race card.......
BUT, THE CLINTONS ARE !!

The 'Firstr Black President' ??????
Nothing is too slimey or disgusting for the Clintons
They're trying to raise Obama's negatives
Apparently, they feel Hillary's can't go any higher

Is THIS the way to Bring this nation together ?
Is THIS the way to Bring this Party together ?

If Hillary is on the ticket, Bloomberg will probably run

I'll take Bloomberg, sight unseen, policies unknown over ANY TICKET that includes HILLARY !!

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, dishonest, unethical, divisive

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Tony Allegretti — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:48:21 GMT

Will the debate be webcast live?

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

gene britton — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:50:28 GMT

Well, it appears that the Obama republican Hillary haters are at it again. Most democrats do not talk about each other the way some of you on this board do. Hillary ate Tim Russerts lunch on Sunday. The NBC,MSNBC,Newsweek, along with their gang of Chris,Tim,Todd and Howard have lost the respect of a lot of us. Their last debate was a disgrace and I do not expect this one to be much better.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

ObamaRama — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:51:26 GMT

How dare those stupid civil rights giants support Clinton. Let's do the Obama thing and throw them under the bus. It's how we're going to bring the country together. Look at how great we're doing with the AA community.
Let's all be democrats for a day and vote for Barack!
Everything we need to know about him is in HIS BOOK!
The republicans woun't dare to challenge him on ANYTHING, because if they do they're racists.
If you call Barack by his middle name...you just might be a racist...
If you quote Barack's drug days from his book (which has EVERYTHING we need to know about him...you just might be a racist
If you question what the republicans would do with the stuff in his book...you just might be a racist

If Barack loses an election...you ALL just might be racists (but this isn't about race)

If John L. Lewis doesn't support Barack... he just might be an Uncle Tom. Those old civil rights guys didn't do anything compared to Barack anyway, so who cares about them.

Those of us who love Barack know that he's always right, never makes a mistake (and if he does, it's his staff) and has infallible judgment. If you can't see that, then you just might be a...

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Sierra, SF — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:52:11 GMT

This is what the Clintons are AFRAID OF:

'...POLL: Transformed by Iowa and N.H., '08 Kicks Off as a Free-for-All
http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/1057a1The08Race.pdf

McCain and Obama Mix Things Up

ANALYSIS by GARY LANGER
Jan. 13, 2008

Iowa and New Hampshire have transformed the 2008
presidential race into a free-for-all, vaulting John
McCain past longtime frontrunner Rudy Giuliani in the
Republican contest and fueling a strong challenge to
Hillary Clinton by Barack Obama among Democrats....'

'...Obama likewise is reaping benefits from winning
the Iowa caucuses and coming within two points of
Clinton in New Hampshire. He now challenges her as the most electable candidate. He's severely eroded her reputation as its strongest leader and sharply
improved his trust to handle key issues. And in
overall preference Clinton and Obama now are all but
tied, 42-37 percent among likely voters, a dramatic
tightening.

An important question is how well both McCain and
Obama's newfound popularity translates in the
state-by-state slog of primaries. McCain's gained more ground among independents and moderates than among the conservatives and mainline Republicans at the party's core -- the bridge he failed to cross in 2000. And his age is a potential problem; three in 10 Americans say it dampens their enthusiasm for him.

Like McCain, Obama's gains have come more among
independents than among his party's regulars, and he
remains notably vulnerable on experience. But he's
also soared in a key Democratic group --
African-Americans, who've switched from favoring
Clinton by 52-39 percent a month ago to an even larger preference for Obama, 60-32 percent, today.

While Obama also has drawn much closer among whites,
preferences of blacks are highly significant in some
upcoming races; in the past blacks have accounted for
47 percent of Democratic voters in South Carolina
(Jan. 26) and Georgia (Feb. 5), 46 percent in
Louisiana (Feb. 9) and more than a third in Virginia
and Maryland (Feb. 12).

VOTE PREFERENCE -- The changes in overall preferences
in both races are remarkable. Among Democratic likely
voters, Obama's gained 14 points and Clinton's lost 11 since the last ABC/Post poll, completed Dec. 9. John Edwards is flat, at 11 percent support.

Story
POLL: Clinton Fends Off Obama in N.H. With More
Committed SupportGiven sample sizes, Clinton's 5-point advantage over Obama is not statistically significant at the customary 95 percent confidence level; it's 75 percent likely to be a real lead. She still leads among women, but now by 11 points, vs. a vast 39 points last month. And Obama now leads nationally among men, 9 points ahead of Clinton....'

'...FAVORABLES -- Some of these changes extend beyond
the candidates' own parties. Among all Americans,
McCain's personal favorability rating -- the most
basic measure of a public figure's popularity -- has
jumped by 16 points since fall. Obama, similarly, has
gained 12 points among all Americans in personal
favorability.

Favorable ratings for Clinton and Edwards both also
have advanced, each up 8 points; and the biggest bolt, 21 points, is for Huckabee, who was catapulted onto the national scene with his victory in the Iowa
caucuses. Still, though, nearly as many Americans see
Huckabee unfavorably (38 percent) as favorably (42
percent).....'

POLL:....

While the three main Democratic contenders and McCain
are the only figures with majority popularity, McCain
has a cross-party advantage: He's viewed favorably by
50 percent of leaned Democrats. Among leaned
Republicans, just 23 percent see Clinton favorably;
Obama and Edwards do better in the GOP camp, around 40 percent favorable.

ATTRIBUTES -- The pros and cons of the candidates'
personal attributes add to the picture, in a way that
raises a potential challenge for McCain: his age.

The notion of Obama as the first African-American or
Clinton as being the first woman president both are
rated as modest net positives by Americans overall.
The notion of Huckabee being the first Baptist
minister to serve as president is a modest net
negative. (There's been a previous minister, James
Garfield in 1881, not a Baptist.) Much bigger
negatives are being a Mormon (Romney), and first
taking office at age 72, as would be the case with
McCain.

This poll measured these by asking respondents if each attribute made them more or less enthusiastic about that person's candidacy. In each case most said it wouldn't make a difference; politics nonetheless is a game of margins.

Obama as first black president gets a net 40-point
positive rating among blacks, vs. just +4 among
whites; Clinton as first woman, +19 among women vs. a
wash among men. Among evangelical white Protestants,
Romney's religion is a 39-point negative while
Huckabee's being a minister is a 22-point positive;
among their non-evangelical counterparts, it's Romney
-15, Huckabee -8. McCain's age has a 26-point negative impact among seniors, about the same as among other ages.

Looking at these within parties, Obama's race is a net positive solely among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents, +22 points, while essentially neutral (-2) among leaned Republicans. There's also a big gap on Clinton as the first woman president (positive for Democrats, negative for Republicans) and to some extent, in the opposite direction, on Huckabee. But Romney's religion and McCain's age cross party lines as net negatives. Negatives aren't fatal in and of themselves, but rather concerns the candidates need to address -- as Ronald Reagan and John F. Kennedy successfully addressed their age and religion, respectively. But addressing them does matter: Currently, among leaned Republicans who are less enthusiastic about McCain because of his age, Giuliani leads him in vote preference by 14 points, 27-13 percent....'

'...DEM GROUPS -- As noted, Obama's made a big move
among African-Americans since December -- up 21 points
-- and now leads Clinton by 60-32 percent in this
group, his biggest lead among blacks of the campaign
and his largest margin in any group in this poll. He's also up by 21 points among independents, leading
Clinton by 44 to 31 percent; she leads by 8 points
among mainline Democrats.

The mantra of change continues to resonate with
Democrats; 54 percent are looking for "a new direction and new ideas" over "strength and experience," and Obama beats Clinton among "new direction" voters by 53-27 percent, his second-largest margin in any group.
Clinton answers by leading Obama by 59-21 percent
among "strength and experience" voters.

Obama did particularly well with younger voters in
Iowa and New Hampshire; nationally, he's improved by
26 points among leaned Democrats under age 40, leading Clinton by 52 to 35 percent in this group. Clinton pushes back strongly among seniors, her best group, leading Obama by 59 percent to 20 percent.

Obama leads among men by about as many points as
Clinton leads among women. But Obama has made a big
move among unmarried women, now running evenly with
Clinton in this group, 43-40 percent -- a 25-point
gain for Obama. That mainly reflects the change among
blacks; a quarter of unmarried women are
African-Americans.

Clinton continues to hold a large lead among married
women, 53 to 30 percent, but Obama's moved closer here too. And he's chipped away at another of Clinton's best groups, those with lower levels of education, up 19 points since last month....'

Nov Dec Jan
Clinton 51 - 43 - 42
Obama 24 - 23 - 37
Edwards 13 - 10 - 11

The trends are clear
Hillary is slowly fading
Losses in Nevada and South Carolina will complete her
loss of support
That's why she's started race-baiting

Favorable Unfav Diff Repub Fav
Obama 63 30 +33 42
McCain 59 30 +29 77
Clinton 58 40 +18 23
Edwards 57 34 +23 40

Eat your heart out, Hillary

That's why you're RACE-BAITING Obama
You HAVE to take down his FAVORABLES

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Chaunda,Indianapolis,IN — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:53:31 GMT

I have agree with Demo American. This has gotten way too personal and irresponsible. The fact is we do have free speech and Randal can say what he wants. I find it funny that Hillary is blamed when one black man says something to another. Black people lets not act brand new. We talk straight to each other all the time. Now we are suppose to hold our tongue when ones runs for the highest position in the land. Obama is alright but he is not MLK. MLK walked the walk not just talked the talked. There are lots of people who can talk a good game. Hillary I hope you forget these people who are just stirring up controversy and get back to your issues. Democrats voted your candidate and unite around the winner whoever it is. I find it scary that any of the democratic candidates would be compared to Bush. And anyone who would vote Republican because they are pouting over their candidate losing needs to look themselves and make a self assessment.

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Ken Silverman — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:57:27 GMT

What is MSNBC afraid of? Ever since Tim Russert's UfO attact on Rep. Kucinich it's obvious that corporate America decides who our president will be.
Let Dennis force the other candidates to answer the hard questions and back up their promises.

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Ron, TX — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:58:34 GMT

The Clinton legacy is in full force- they try to squash, defame, slander, and destroy any person who crosses their path. They always have and always will. Just ask any of the women Bill fooled around with that Hillary has destroyed. It's never their fault.

Distance, side-step, counter-punch. That is the Clinton Legacy.

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Pat huntington ny — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:59:42 GMT

IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID!

Now that I got your attention, all this race commentary is a distraction from the real issues. Hello! We are quickly sliding into a recession, if we're not there already. Why is this not the real issue to be discussed is beyond. Who cares if Hillary said MLK's dream became a reality when LBJ signed the civil rights law. Who cares if Obama tried to twist this into a racial issue for purely political purposes. We are in deep economic doo doo, and I want to know what they are going to do about it.

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Bradley Glisson, Durham, NC — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:01:25 GMT

It's not about if the Clintons are racist or not, it's the fact that they will say, use, or do anything to win. She honestly believes she's the best person for the job I believe, but in that belief she's willing to do ANYTHING to win. That's very very sad.

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Republican watching Dems Self-Destruct — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:09:00 GMT

J. Merle Stanley: are you a comedian (comedienne?) or do you really believe what you're posting?

I've chuckled at how out of touch your posts have been over the past couple of weeks.

I'm sure Senator Clinton is glad she has your vote. She probably wishes she had a more reasonable apologist though.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

BEING SNOW BALLED /AZ — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:11:16 GMT

Being snow balled!

Now the race for the White House takes on meaning, but there is the same old election garbage.

Where's the BEEF? In this election ""WHERE'S THE CHANGE""?????????????????????????????????????????!

Every stump Promise is more of masking, adding to, stump lies, hollow promise, self serving agenda!

The Washington self serving paper hanger again uses sixty year old stump speeches, even reflects to the past and insists we must use those goals to maintain in this date and time.

The snow balls of yesterday have melted, we have power domain bureaucrats who strangle the path to a more progressive and better future, they resist change ""Because they have lost contact with reality, they are the thorn in the side of progress. Between the bureaucrats and self serving paper hangers, the lobbyist have taken away the will and voice of this country. Their snow balls melt because we keep giving them snow """MEANING NON ACCOUNTABLE MONEY""", cheap pork barrel issue, behind the closed doors back yard deals. Power struggles which have a hidden price tag your pay check will pay for!

We are being again used, to keep these Washington self serving paper hangers in power positions, to accept ""their methods"", to support their ""dreams"", in fact we have during this election the false paper hanger who side stepped the law and accepted money from a wanted felon, racists behind the door who have change the dialogue to reflect division, slander and scandal follow one who uses a Past President to introduce negative conjecture only to enhance his spouse election bid!

HRC, and her gang of speech writers, are not electable under the meaning of change! Their picture is more of the same, painting a new face on the same issues is not change ""It is masking the real problem and adding additional failing conjecture. The intent is to recapture control of the White House! Where is change ""When their agenda is self serving??? Again the people are being left behind and the issues again tabled along with being swept under the carpet!

Change is ""NEW STRUCTURE"". STRIKING DOWN THE WASHINGTON SELF SERVING PAPER HANGERS PATH TO DEFEATIST AGENDA IS CHANGE

REFORM IS A PAPER HANGERS DREAM WORLD WHICH KEEPS THE PAPER HANGER IN A JOB, REFORM IN THEIR EYES IS TO MASK THE PROBLEM WITH NEW PAPER, BUT KEEPS THE IMPOSED SELF SERING AGENDA ALIVE!

IN 100 YEARS THE SELF SERVING PAPER HANGER HAS WRITTEN TAX LAWS WHICH NOW STRANGLE ANY HOPE OR PATH TO BRAKE THE CHAINS OF GOVERNMENTAL CONTROL. WE ARE CONFINED TO ACCEPTING GOVERNMENTAL FAILURE.

DEMAND AND RECAPTURE THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON.

STRIP WASHINGTON OF THOSE WHO MAINTAIN POWER DOMAINS OVER THOSE WHO SEEK A REAL FUTURE!

""HRC , STANDS FOR HERE'S REAL CONJECTURE"""

VOTE FOR A PRESIDENT NOT A PUPPET OF A PAST PRESIDENT!!

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Jurnei — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:13:41 GMT

Will Kucinich be in the debate this evening? He is a presidential candidate. I would like to see how he stands up to Obama/Clinton. I wouldn't consider a vote for the Clinton legacy. Between Bush and Clinton, look where we are now. Bad times. We need change.

I'm most interested in Kucinich at this time.

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aw, Ft Lauderdale, Florida — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:14:38 GMT

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ZQ — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:15:33 GMT

Clinton did NOT win NH.

Stop reporting that.

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squintz, philly, pa — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:15:57 GMT

Mark S, NC - amen to that!

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Brando,NY — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:27:32 GMT

Go Barack! Go John! You two have a great debate tonight. Omaba / Edwards '08. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

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DJ, Philadelphia — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:28:28 GMT

Donna Brazile needs to do the right thing and state publically that she was wrong. She is losing credibility as each day passes. Same with Clyburn.

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Tom, Portland OR — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:29:04 GMT

Shame on you NBC/MSNBC & your democratic debate decision. Every candidate, regardless of prior standings in other primaries has a right to debate all other viable candidates. Are you guys trying to determine who wins & loses by only allowing those high in the polls to debate? Until a candidate withdraws from a race, he/she has a right to participate in all discussions & debates. That decision is not yours, but the voters, at the polls after hearing all sides. As a republican, I really don't care who debates on the democrat side, but I do believe in fairness & an equal chance for all.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

steve g, Ontario, CA — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:29:13 GMT

Why has nobody had the courage to ask Obama if his faith would influence his presidential decision making. What is his position on islamic influence in America?

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gary,overland park — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:38:34 GMT

I am so happy that Dennis Kucinich is joining the democratic dwebate tonight

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Arness Sanchez, Texas — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:39:12 GMT

IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID!

.
.
.

Pat huntington ny

So, what ever happened to it being the war, stupid?

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Nashville_fan — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:41:42 GMT

steve g, Ontario, CA wrote:

Why has nobody had the courage to ask Obama if his faith would influence his presidential decision making. What is his position on islamic influence in America?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Um, Steve, he has been asked that question and his faith is Christian.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/01/15/politics/fromtheroad/entry3713943.shtml

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Danaelle, Kissimmee FL — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:44:07 GMT

Mark s, yes actually he did...Take a look at the whole picture. It started when Bill made his "infamous" fairy tale speech. He was not talking about MLK when he said that, he was talking about a voting record, and the debates. Obama used that to start putting the fairy tale in connection with MLK and everyone then went berzerk! All of the other stuff followed that, and everyone got in deeper. Now everyone wants to back off but Obama cant admit how it all went because he will lose credibility. He knows it, and so does Hillary. She just wants to get it over with and not even make him lose his credibility over it, therefore, I feel SHE is the one doing the noble thing here. The media hasnt helped by playing only the last part of Bill's speech, omitting all the rest so that we know what context to put it in. Maybe that is why Obama even had the reaction he had, who knows, if that is the case then it is the media trying to egg on a fight and neither candidate starting it, at any rate, lets hope it is over now, and that everyone pays closer attention to what has been said. Thank goodness for Keith Olberman for finally bringing attention to that fact!

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diane — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:00:32 GMT

Hillary is a bad choice for the glass ceiling thing and discussion of sexism.
I am a woman and cannot stand Hillary. I cheered when Pelosi took the gavel but, dread Hillary getting the nomination.
You have to have a candidate that is more likable than Hillary to test the theory of sexism and women having a harder time.
Hillary provokes so much negative feelings and her machine pol image doesn't help. As well as her behavior over the past couple months.
The supposed split in the party over the recent blow up is not new. Half the party is ready to revolt if Hillary becomes the nominee.

As for the fall out. On Washington journal this morning they asked the question of whether Hillary or Obama were playing the race card.
Most callers were white. 90% felt it was a political ploy by Hillary to damage Obama.
No one is buying her act. Everyone knows what she was up to and that she tried to blame Obama for her own camps actions.
So, not just blacks, but whites as well are upset with Hillary over her trying to destroy Obama on this.

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Robert Brock, Dallas, Texas — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:09:07 GMT

I like Obama but he is only talking in platitudes. He is deliberately vague - which piques my suspicions about his willingness or ability to deal in policies and issues in a focused manner. He is running for the Democratic Party nomination but sometimes he sounds like he is running a tent revival.

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Mark S, NC — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:26:50 GMT

Actually, Danaelle, as I stated in my post, neither Obama nor his surrogates said a single thing about this until Sunday. Again, it was Brazile and Clyburn who started talking about this. I certainly don't believe that Bill or Hillary are racist, and I think it's absolutely true that Bill's comments were taken out of context. All I was saying is that it wasn't Obama or his campaign who was doing it. Domenico just posted a handy timeline of this controversy on First Read. I would think that if there were a moment where either Obama or one of his strong supporters injected him/herself into this debate, it would be noted there...but it's not because it never happened. Talk about a "fairytale".

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:36:47 GMT

I went on Cindy Sheehan's website LOL....

I guess Hillary can forget an endorsement from her anytime soon.....

http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/1590/t/2705/blog/comments.jsp?blog_entry_KEY=21071&t=

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Nashville_fan — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:43:13 GMT

Danaelle, Kissimmee FL wrote:

"Obama used that to start putting the fairy tale in connection with MLK and everyone then went berzerk!"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is only one small problem with this statement - it's not true! Senator Obama never commented AT ALL about Bill Clinton's or Hillary Clinton's statements. Please do not continue to spread this falsehood.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Darrius, Arkansas — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:57:19 GMT

A couple of things.

1--- This is not a back and forth. All of these comments are coming from Bill, Hillary and their surrogates. Obama and his people are trying to avoid these topics and trying to take the high road. Any description of this as "back and forth" is unfair to Obama.

2--- The notion that voters discriminate against women more than they discriminate African-Americans is a farce. Currently, there are 16 women in the US Senate, there is 1 African-American in the Senate. Currently, there are 8 female governors, and 1 African-American Governor. There have only been two Africans elected Governor of a state in US history. Both history and current events show that if you are running for statewide elected office, being African-American is a bigger obstacle than being female.

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Robb Scott, Manhattan, KS — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:17:35 GMT

It is just plain ridiculous for the media to be trying to intervene and shut down certain candidates
by changing the ground rules (fourth place polling).
I think MSNBC does not understand politics and that
says something about their political director...
Lots of people--whether Kucinich supporters or not--are pulling for the little guy today against the media industrial complex.

Viva Las Vegas: the MSNBC debate

Shaw, Cleveland, OH — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:29:51 GMT

To think, when including H.W. Bush's vice presidency for Reagan, my entire life, it's just been Bushes and Clintons in office. To think, if Clinton wins the presidency, and god forbid becomes a two-termer, as a person born in 1981, you will have been alive for 36 years and have had nothing but Bushes and Clintons controlling the executive branch. I'm sick of this country being an aristocracy/oligarchy.

Heavens, how delusional are you people to be supporting Clinton? She calls herself a feminist, but tried to silence and destroy the reputations of the women that Bill sexually harassed. She represents a complete lack of intergity: Pardons for money? Passing off bribes as profits from cattle futures? Whitewater?

I'm tired of this. America. PLEASE, we as a nation can change! Hillary Clinton does not represent real change! I want a woman president, but not HER. She's only a feminist when politically convenient, because above all else, she's an opportunist, saying whatever needs to be said, playing the victim, passing off her husband's record as her own... she'll do ANYTHING to win. Please... America...

IF YOU KEEP VOTING HOW YOU'VE ALWAYS VOTED, YOU'RE GOING TO KEEP GETTING WHAT YOU'VE ALWAYS GOT!!!

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Michael Rose, Las Vegas, NV — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:34:01 GMT

In Politics, truth is relative and so it is in history. To say that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was successfully enacted solely or primarily because of the efforts or leadership of one person is willfully ignoring the facts. Frankly, even if that were true, why would the race of the agent of change be important? Most historians agree that there was a Civil Rights movement meaning many Americans (including caucasians) acted collectively to articulate and act upon an idea whose time had come. Not surprisingly, part of our society was adamantly opposed to change. In the end, it wasn't simply a contest of competing ideologies among our citizens that determined the fate of monumental legislation (the manifestation of change). Rather, it was a President with the experience and political capital accrued as a Senate Majority Leader that reached out to Dixiecrats for the votes that were critical (and otherwise unattainable) to make Dr. King's dream a reality. In a perfect world, a benevolent government would respect the will of the people and "do the right thing." Unfortuantely, the reality is that Congress rarely acts out of altruism (even if wrapping itself in the flag) or in appropriate response to the will of the people. On the contrary, it is a coin operated Congress. For that matter, Presidents rarely get what they want from Congress either. Our system of government was designed for gridlock. Nothing gets done without bargaining and consensus among all the players. Even then, the U.S. Supreme Court is the referee. It is nothing short of naive to argue that a change in the Whitehouse automatically or necessarily brings meaningful change in legislation via Congress. Our midterm election blow out fell short of the fillibuster proof and/or veto proof threshold necessary for one political party to dominate. Further, the fairy tale of the Obama campaign is that lobbyists and vested interest groups will beat their swords into ploughshares or simply go home. Sure Congress gets religion every now and then with Campaign Finance Reform, a spotlight on ethically challenged members, etc. but as the French say: "the more things change the more they stay the same." Bureaucracy is antithetical to change. In order for fundamental change to occur, we need a President that is a political animal not a babe in the woods. As Senator Clinton aptly put it, talking about change is one thing but delivering it is another. Did Obama bring about wholesale change in the Illinois legislature? Would the result somehow have been different had he been governor? I am disturbed by the cult mentality that this is the second coming and anyone asking for critical empiricism is a heretic. Scrutiny is inevitable but Repbulicans will wait until we nominate a candidate to reach into their bag of dirty tricks. I am also disturbed that leaders of the African American community would fabricate a nonexistent racial issue instead of engaging an argument on the merits. I believe that tactic could easily backfire. That is, if white America is ready to elect a black President, the Al Sharptons and Jessie Jacksons should avoid polarizing and segregating voting classes. The more extreme a voting block is perceived, the greater the alignment and opposition from others. If history repeats itself, the "Reagan Democrats" may decide this election.

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Rick,ky — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:40:56 GMT

I Agree With Barack!! Hillary Clinton's word's from last night.I knew it coming, just did'nt know when.

Barack Obama for President.

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Robert, New York, NY — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:41:34 GMT

From today's LA Times...

But Arnold figured that the words were calculated to bait Obama into speaking more about his race, thus distancing white voters.

"That's what it is," he said. "She's trying to pick him clean."

Experts, too, are trying to gauge how calculated the Clinton rhetoric is. David Bositis, a fellow at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies -- a think tank that focuses on issues of concern to blacks -- thinks the Clinton camp is sending signals that could alienate blacks but enhance the candidate's appeal to working-class whites.

"Hillary's people would like Obama to be seen as the black candidate," he said. "That would help in terms of her appeal to white working-class voters. They are voters who represent a backbone of the campaign."

Bositis, who is not affiliated with either campaign, said it reminded him of moves Bill Clinton made in his 1992 campaign that sent a message that "he was not going to be pushed around by Jesse Jackson."

Bositis also mentioned Clinton's high-profile 1992 return to Arkansas for the execution of Ricky Ray Rector, an African American, and to Clinton's rebuke of black hip-hop artist Sister Souljah.

<end quote>

Look, the Clintons are using blacks in the same way that the GOP uses evangelicals...visit them every four years, keep their leaders happy, and ignore for the next three...the Clintons have no shame, no class, and no chance of uniting America...just look at how they and their surrogates have acted for the last 10 days.

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Cassie, Saginaw,MI — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:48:49 GMT

Nice brief mention of Kuchinich, MSNBC. You might want to mention that a Judge is ordering you to include him after you changed the bylaws so he couldn't participate. Thanks for picking my candidates for me. Just one question, I passed my Journalism ethics and law class. Did anyone on staff at MSNBC even attend that class? Broadcast journalism disgusts me. Thanks for the reminder.

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voter — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:22:41 GMT

Blaming Hillary for playing race card because that the media is pushing. Obama has done this along with his wife. They have incorporated the race card in all their events. What do you think they mean when they say we are going to make history by electing him. He is all orator and no substance. No OBAMA

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Chris, Nashville, TN — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:27:49 GMT

Weary of Hillary...as a woman, I was energized & excited at the thought of the first female president in U.S. history actually becoming a reality. Yet in recent months (even before Iowa), I began seeing a trend coming from the Clinton camp toward intimidation & proving they will actually do anything it takes to win. (I'd seen it in the past but didn't want to believe it was true.) This includes dividing the Democratic Party at a time when we need to be united for the sake of the direction of our Nation. Since Iowa, the Clinton machine has sunken really low & shown that they care more about winning (power) than they do about unifying the country which our country desperately needs at this juncture in history. I'm going with Obama on February 5th & see it as a vote for vision, change, & unity for the good of all of the people. Idealistic? Perhaps. But a far better choice for my vote than siding with those who are power hungry & void of conscience.

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Jill, Calera, OK — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:09:31 GMT

Hillary is a HAG, after seeing what her "supporters" are pulling in Nevada she will never receive my vote. I will vote for any independent or republican (other than Huckabee, who is also very sad) rather than give her the honor of my support in any way. This country is in a downward spiral of self destruction, we need to gather whatever shards of hope we have left to gather and unite as a people to take the power back!!!!

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J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:22:57 GMT

To Mark S, NC,

Obama is an empty suit, all rhetoric, and no substance. He promises change without saying what it is that he's going to change, or how he's going to do it
When the chips are down for the Bush administration, they play the "terrorist alert" card. Now we know when Obama's numbers start to sink, he will play the race card.
I doubt you even know what Obama stands for. Most of his supporters say "go to his website" in response to asking them what his plan of action is. "Go to his website" is the equivalent of saying "I don't know" in response to that question.
You just hate Hillary because she is leading nationally, and no matter how much of a temper tantrum Obama's campaign throws, they can't change that. Attacking her or her supporters personally isn't going to change that.
In the end, this election is not about who makes the best empty promises, or which candidate can incite a crowd with the best rhetoric absent of any substance.
It is about who has the experience and the qualifications to lead America forward into the 21st century, beginning day one of her (and I do mean her) Presidency.
Change isn't about "luck"
Change is the residue of qualified leadership and experienced design.
Obama has neither.
Hillary has BOTH!

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Sbrak — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 06:36:25 GMT

I'm amazed by MSNBC strong-arming this debate. First they want Kucinich (so Richardson could tag along), then they un-invite him. Not only that, but they get the state supreme court to sit on there decision until the last minute.

Oh well, I guess it's still a democracy; at least television stations can still choose their candidates.

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Tanya P, Charleston, SC — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:28:30 GMT

Stop throwing Hillary soft balls. She's a big girl. Please bring her to a yes or no answer. Not all around the field and what she wants to say without ever challenging her.

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GuyfromtheNorthCountry, Lansing, NY. — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:28:34 GMT

McCain is not an "establishment douchebag." The establishment hates him for opposing their lobbyists, earmarks, and for not playing "the game" in DC. Clinton, in particular, has sold out to big-money interests. Also, McCain has been right on Iraq; Clinton wanted to give up there.

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Dr. F. Perham — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:23:12 GMT

Some pundits seem to bending over backwards so as not to appear anti-female. As much as I enjoy listening to Chris Matthews, since his recent "make-up" with Hillary, he couldn't wait to declare her "victory" in the debate. Was I watching the same debate? I think Obama and Edwards did quite well. (I'm a professional female)

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Toonces, Denver — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:36:22 GMT

please - there is enough blame to go around to all the candidates. I love Obama but I am not dumb enough to believe he got this far not playing the game - he is this far because he has played the game and quite well. I would be happy to have Clinton, Obama, or Edwards as my president. And I can't remember when the last time I felt I had so many GOOD choices before and ones that I feel would do right by the country founded upon democracy. I am rejoicing with the quality of democratic candidates we have this year. I am not about to get distracted by this "he said she said" crap - lets stay focused on the fact that we have a president in office who has eroded our civil liberties and took us to war which has drained us of precious resources.

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Cornelius Brantley, Jr., Morganton, NC — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:05:15 GMT

Is MSNBC going to be consistent in the Florida Republican debate by allowing only those candidates who finished in the top 3 in the previous primaries and caucuses as they did in the last Democratic debate?
If not, Kucicnich has a good point to make about corporate media trying to control this election. Chris? Keith? Dan? Your responses?