First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Diogenes — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:25:12 GMT

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/1/22/11049/2664

FACT CHECK: Obama, His Contributor Rezko, the Slum Landlord Business

by truthteller2007, Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 01:10:49 AM EST

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton engaged in a heated exchange over Obama's work for a certain Rezko during tonight's CNN-Congressional Black Caucus debate. An assessment of their statements reveals that Barack Obama misrepresented the work he performed for Rezko, who Hillary Clinton correctly characterized as a "slum landlord" who is also one of Barack Obama's "contributors." Clinton, however, neglected to mention that Rezko is presently under federal indictment for fraudulent schemes involving government officials and government funds. Because this fact check is limited to statements uttered during the debate, it will not explore Rezko's involvement in the questionable scheme whereby Obama purchased his Chicago mansion.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

j fl — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:31:31 GMT

Hillary kicked butt as usual in every area. As a female shes damned if shes too tough and damned if she appears weak. Obama is intimidated by her as he is his own wife. She is the stronger candidate by far. Edwards came in second and Obama, still lacks substance and too weak to stand up to the republicans. We don't need a "nice guy" like Kerry again.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Marbw — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:31:32 GMT

Lock your doors and pull down the shades, South Carolinian, B Clinton is trolling for votes. He is the past, new dawn/new day.

NO MORE MELODRAMAS
NO DYNASTIC-STYLE RULE
NO MORE SMEARING THEN APOLOGIZING
NO MORE HALF-TRUTHS
NO MORE DIVISIVE POLITICS
NO MORE CONGRESSIONAL/GUBERTORIAL/LEGISLATIVE LOSSES FOR DEMS(happened in the 90's)

OBAMA08 FOR THE FIERCE URGENCY OF NOW

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Adam/Brooklyn New York City — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:33:19 GMT

I think we all saw last night what the Clinton "say-anything" strategy looks like. She's a liar just like her husband was, and they'll do anything to get the White House back... even run the party through the mud.

Why anyone would want to bring The Clinton Circus back to town is beyond me.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Shadow, Hamden, CT — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:34:21 GMT

Obama scored his biggest debate victory over Clinton this season with last night's knockout in the fiery exchange. The crowd went in to that with 60% applauding Obama and 40% applauding Clinton, and by the end of it, 90% were booing Clinton HEAVILY. That kind of shift is DEVASTATING for the Clinton campaign.

Time's Mark Halperin gave Barack Obama the highest rating of the debate with an A-. The dailykos post-debate poll has Obama ahead by double digits, at a site that has long been solid Edwards territory. CNN Focus Groups of SC undecided voters left the debate with 50% of them planning to vote for Obama, although they also liked Edwards; notice, though, no mention of Clinton.

Although the issue parts of the debate were more balanced, with all three doing quite well for the most part, the nuclear war Clinton started with Obama blew up in her own face; she was counting that he wouldn't fight back, and he did. All those who wanted to know if Obama could fight back hard against a GOP opponent now know that he would, and yet, with his very positive answer to the Bill Clinton as black President question among others, he ultimately left the debate hall resonating at the end with his hopeful and unifying message.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Janis Weathers, NY — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:34:22 GMT

Hillary's not even running for President anymore. Bill has taken the campaign over because Hillary has screwed it up so bad. Remember her saying that she was "winning"? Not anymore.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

MG, St. Louis, Mo. — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:41:38 GMT

Although it got a bit out of hand I feel it was good to finally see Obama strike back. In the previous debates I feel he has stayed a bit too far above the fray and has come off weak. Last night he stood up for his recorrd and the outright mis-interpretations the Clintons have made of his every statement. Hopefully he got it out of his system and will now get back to business and to his message whic is transformative. Edwards did a great job and was really on message and in a less preachy and heated way then he has appeared in the past, but he also got his hands dirty and played some sly tricks himself. He definately got his jabs in.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Jim Bates, Troy, PA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:42:04 GMT

I guess this is campaign is going to be about race after all. I was shocked twice last night while watching MSNBC and the CNN debate and the first time was when the noted black journalist Clarence Page stated that “All blacks should be supporting Obama”. I can only imagine if John Edwards or a white journalist said “All whites should be voting for a white candidate. Then during the debate Obama made a statement about creating a Department of Racial Justice. Is this going to mean that police will have to start making arrests by racial groups depending upon the makeup of the local population? Will this mean that when the percentage of blacks or Hispanics arrested equals the local population makeup that the police will be force to only patrol white neighborhoods until the number of arrest conforms to some racial crime quota? I found both the remark made by Page racist and the thought of a Department of Racial Justice troubling. While many have tried to make sure this campaign wasn’t about race it’s obvious that many of the supporters of Obama think it should be.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

diane — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:45:38 GMT

Janis says: Hillary's not even running for President anymore.

I agree but, why is the obvious fact that Bill is running for a 3rd term not an issue. Why are the pundits not discussing this and why are people ignoring this.
We have had 7 years of a president who stomped on the constitution and it looks like the clintons will continue this trend if they get back in.
I cannot understand the sheer stupidity of the electorate who willingly turn a blind eye to this.
And, I also wonder if there is not something shady and wrong in having a campaign where it is not challenged that two people are running in one campaign.
This country will rue the day the Clintons have been allowed to have their way and be allowed this unchallenged mockery of our primaries and elections.
Maybe the fact that the democratic party will be coming apart at the seams if Hillary is the pretend nominee.
They left this party weak and ineffectual when they left in 2000, and will finish it off now and it will be with the help of the blind supporters who are codependents to the most destructive force in our party. Not the republicans but, the Clintons.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Ron, TX — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:45:49 GMT

One thing is clear after the debate last night: Obama is the nation's only hope to move beyond disgusting partisan politics. Clinton will relish it, and get absolutely nothing done IF she can even manage to get elected. Obama is our only hope.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Betty, S.C. — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:46:27 GMT

Obama was very transparent last night showing that he is really bumfuzzled with the whole thing.
He could not explain the present votes nor his fascination with Ronald Reagan, he hemmed and hawed but could not come up with a decent explanation.The Rezco fact that Hillary stated threw him totally off guard, Way to go Hillary Babe!
His "inexperience" and "phoniness" shone brightly through.
Let the African Americans of South Carolina give him a win in their state and that just proves that he is another black man running for president that once again does not have the intelligence and substance it takes to get the job. Hillary was playing to the country last night, not the blacks of South Carolina.
I predict though that Hillary will do well in S.C. come Saturday. There is a white population too in our state, lest you guys forget.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Nashville_fan — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:47:30 GMT

Senator Obama stood up for himself and stood up for America. The "Clintons" free pass to be the "bulls in the china shop" in this election just expired.

P.S. It was nice to hear Senator Clinton say the name Rezcko herself instead of just sending her minions to post it anonymously on blogs - a rare glimpse at the REAL Hillary. As an Obama supporter, I welcome the opportunity to open the "seedy supporter door" - talk about your 4 page memos.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Nick, NY — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:48:40 GMT

Why have I never heard before about Hillary working on the corporate board of Walmart for 6 years?? The Clintons funded their presidential campaign in 1992 with Walmart money, and nobody knew?

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Kisha — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:53:36 GMT

Is Bill running for President or Hillary??? She isnt a strong woman after all if she has to depend on her husband. I am impressed with Obama he is taking on both Clitons.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Paul Berwick Maine — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:55:37 GMT

No we dont need a king and queen those days are gone when we were under the thumb of England...The Clinton are obsessed with the white house when they left they just about cleaned the place out, the must have forgotten something.........

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

ObamaRama — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:55:38 GMT

Shadow, Hamden, CT (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:34 AM)

I imagine you wearing a little skirt and holding pom-poms...

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

DCortez, Houston, Texas — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:55:47 GMT

My brother in law is still trying to convince me that Bill was our best president, ever. Of course he was dumb enough to marry my sister!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Jane, Cary, NC — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:55:54 GMT

I think Obama won, no contest. He was crisp and quick. Showed a great wit, as well as phenomenal debating skills on the serious issues. He was extremely effective in his challenges, as well as in his comebacks.

I want to make one other point. I am so sick and tired of the Clintons, and some in the media like Pat Buchanan, trying to "MARGINALIZE" Obama as the 'Black candidate.' Does everyone have AMNESIA and forgotten that Obama beat Hillary by TEN POINTS in IOWA which is 98% WHITE??? He also did very well in mostly white NH and Nevada. In a General Election against the GOP Obama will win his own current white supporters, like me, as well as most of the whites who supported Hillary and Edwards in the primaries. And in South Carolina, if Bill Clinton is challenging Obama as to who can get the most African-American votes - Bill has said he will go door-to-door to win them - why would this not raise the stakes? In other words, the Clintons are both extremely popular figures in the African-American community, as is Obama. So this is a real test to see who can attract more of their votes, as South Carolina has a large Black population. This contest should not be 'written off' by the pundits because of the demographics of SC. Quite the contrary. You have the 'first Black president' (Bill) and his wife,
running against the first really serious, mainstream African-American candidate. Let's see who does better. But, please, don't fall for the Clintons' tactic of trying to "marginalize" Obama. He WON IOWA 39% to Hillary's 29% among an electorate that is 98% white.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Paul Berwick Maine — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:56:10 GMT

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Diogenes — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:56:49 GMT

susanhu, “Barack, You’re Lying, and I’m Calling You On It,” ”MyDD”, January 21, 2008.

www.mydd.com/story/2008/1/21/213555/219

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Pat, Boston, MA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:57:43 GMT

I was hoping Senator Obama would go after Senator Clinton & ex-president Bill Clinton with both guns blazing. He did.

No way, absolutely no way should Bill Clinton's attacks on Barack Obama be acceptable and left unanswered. I don't care if media analysts assume this will hurt Barack Obama. It would hurt him more if he said nothing.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

KING OF SMEAR — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:59:52 GMT

NOTICE TO DEMOCRATS THE REPUBLICANS WILL USE THE CLINTON CHRONICLES.COM ===SEE FREE VIDEO===SHOWS CLINTON INVOLVED IN A 11 MILLION A MOTH COCAINE OPERATION==HIS COCAINE HABIT===HIS ARKANSAS GOVERNMENT COVERING UP MURDERS AND SUICIDES, INCLUDING 2 TEENS WHO CAME UPON A COCAINE DROP, WERE KILLED AND PUT ON RAILROAD TRACK, AND WAS COVERED UP BY CLINTONS GOVT. HILLARY WAS INVOLVED==ALSO SHOWS BILLS ATTENDANCE AT SEX PARTIES ACCORDING TO WITNESS==WHY DO YOU THINK THE DRUG PARDONS===HE WAS INVOLVED

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

redshift, spokane wa — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:00:05 GMT

shadow, were you actually at the debate looking around at the crowd doing your precentages for applauding and booing? i streamed the whole debate and would find it quite difficult to come up with precentages since the cameras were actually on the candidates.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

jade7243 — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:00:23 GMT

Chuck, I agree with assessments of the debate which gave the WIN to OBAMA. You media types just cannot be pleased. This summer you wanted a food fight. Last night you got a fight and now you claim Obama was wrong for going after the Clintons for attacking him relentlessly. But just before last night's fight, you all were crying out about how he needed to engage and take them on..,

Famous words? Gimme a break. Obama did exactly what he needed to do last night, STAND UP TO Clinton -- both Hill and Bill. His willingness to engage, telegraphed in the ABC GMA interview, and with a warning shot across the bow by Mayor Shirley Franklin, signals to Obama surrogates they can be excruciatingly tough on the Clintons now and not be perceived as "going negative." This is now the good guy getting pummeled by the bullies and the rest of the class coming to the aid -- not rescue, but aid -- of the good guy.

Plus, something that might escape your attention but was also significant: Obama took on Clinton during MLK week. Call it standing up to "slave master and his wife" if you will. His "defiance" (if you want to take it that far) plays quite well with the African Americans sitting on the fence. Plus, what also escaped your attention is his jovial relationship with John Edwards and the subtle way both he and Edwards ignored Hillary in the second half of the debate. There was no joshing back and forth between Barack and Hillary. The "coziness" between the two men is reassuring to white voters who can differentiate between dislike of Hillary as apposed to dislike like of whites. He carefully diffused what could have been portrayed at any other time as the angry black man scenario.

Hillary came off shrill and unlikable, a policy wonkish, snarky ,,, dare I say it b*tch. Plus her so-called "ethics" slap against Obama opens her Pandora's box of 35 years of trouble. Whatever Tony Rezko did pales in significance to what the Clintons did both in and out of the White House. Her sleaze factor is on display.

(The Rezko story is a non-starter. The Sun-Times and Tribune have been all over that story and have no dirt on Obama. Now will be you reporting on Bill's massive financial divestiture of funds received from a questionable financial backer? Perhaps you all need to do some "spadework" on HIllary.)

Edwards made himself relevant again and will take white votes from Hillary.

As for Super Tuesday, you all should not count your chickens before they come home to roost. Stop dusting off the Hillary crown, because voters in other states -- especially white voters -- who were waiting to see Obama engage got their wish last night. And it was not at all helpful to the "new Hillary.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

not_the_clintons_again — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:00:28 GMT

I am just so sick of Bill and Hillary Clinton. Are we so unimaginative that we would pick them again to lead the country ? Bill Clinton is a liar. This is a fact that everyone knows because he liedn to us all on television in 1997.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Margaret, Palmyra, VA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:02:02 GMT

The only debate victory was by John Edwards. He looked Presidential and sounded more than competent. I know First Read hates to give him much credit, but he out shined both of the others. Obama is an orator not a debater and Hillary just sounded shrill.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Charles, Georgia — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:04:00 GMT

It’s seems as if Bill Clinton is running for a 3rd term as president. Is Hill Clinton is George Bush and Bill Clinton is Dick Cheney?

The more she relies on Bill Clinton as her attack dog and top campaigner the more she’ll be attacked on all the negativity surrounding the Clinton white house. Its real hard to talk about change when the republicans remind the voters about all the scandals that the Clintons were involved in.

She may be the front runner but I question her ability to win the general election. Her negatives are very high. She would rally a dormant GOP base. And she has exposed herself in a way that leaves her extremely vulnerable to the GOP.

The GOP sees her candidacy as an opportunity to put President Clinton on trial. They will remind us why we are glad that era has passed and they will tell us we’d be crazy to want to go back. I think it’s a very compelling argument. Not impossible to overcome, but extremely difficult, especially if McCain is the nominee

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Diego E Santa Fe, NM — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:04:16 GMT

We FINALLY see the real OBAMA. Just another political hack. Where was the grand vision, change, and or no more old-style politics. Obama is almost a "reverse racist!!" He can say anyghing because he is half black, but others cannot. WHAT A PILE.
Did you notice OBAMA's cursory hand shake at the end. POOR LOER?
Obama, you are not ready for the big times. Go back, and grow up and maybe in 8 year after PRESIDENT HRC!!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

jade7243 — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:04:25 GMT

P. S. Clinton has slid away from good buddy playboy Ron Burkle...from the WSJ:

Former President Clinton stands to reap around $20 million -- and will sever a politically sensitive partnership tie to Dubai -- by ending his high-profile business relationship with the investment firm of billionaire friend Ron Burkle.

Mr. Clinton is negotiating to end his relationship with Mr. Burkle's Yucaipa Cos. as part of a broader effort to protect the presidential campaign of his wife, Sen. Hillary Clinton, from potential conflicts of interest. Details of Mr. Clinton's involvement in Yucaipa and his efforts to unwind it come from documents and interviews with people familiar with the matter.

The former president has had links to Yucaipa since early 2002, when Mr. Burkle -- a longtime friend and political contributor -- offered him a role there. Mr. Clinton's association with the firm began at a time when he was looking to earn large amounts of money, partly to pay heavy legal bills accumulated to defend himself and Mrs. Clinton from several investigations during his presidency.

Now, as he negotiates with Yucaipa to withdraw from the relationship, he is a wealthy man, thanks partly to tens of millions of dollars he has earned making speeches around the world..."

Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the sleaziest of them all?

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Jesse, Fallon NV — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:05:32 GMT

Can we please get the Democrats to put Hillary away? Why are any Dems supporting her, when it is so clear she will lose the general election for us again? Who's coat tails would you rather ride as a Democrat, Obama or Clinton? Wake up Dems, and vote for success. Vote for Obama.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Syreeta McNeal, Columbia, MO — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:05:52 GMT

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

jerry/corpus christi texas — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:07:11 GMT

• A “Confidential” May 26, 1993 Memorandum from Senator Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) to Hillary Clinton entitled, “Health Care Reform Communications,” which criticizes the Task Force as a “secret cabal of Washington policy ‘wonks’” that has engaged in “choking off information” from the public regarding health care reform. The memorandum suggests that Hillary Clinton “use classic opposition research” to attack those who were excluded by the Clinton Administration from Task Force deliberations and to “expose lifestyles, tactics and motives of lobbyists” in order to deflect criticism. Senator Rockefeller also suggested news organizations “are anxious and willing to receive guidance [from the Clinton Administration] on how to time and shape their [news] coverage.”

This goes to show that Hillary Clinton will do ANYTHING to keep tabs on her enemies. I would have liked someone to discuss the topic above last night, but Hillary made too much of a fool of herself.

One does have to question....
Is it Bill or Hillary running for president?.....
I think we got the answer last night....

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Kathy Lewis, Lakeside GA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:07:50 GMT

Obama just kicked butt last night. He addresses the issues and concerns he has without resorting to the anger exhibited by Clinton. Obama is rational while Clinton is unhinged and incoherent. She wants to lead the free world? Not a chance with that giant chip on her shoulder.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Lynn from SC — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:09:16 GMT

This was no debate last night--it was a DEBACLE. I wonder how long it will be before the "Kleenex Express" featuring Hillary's "Sobbing Supporters" rides again!! Well, actually, next up should be some No-Doze for Bill--nodding off CENTER STAGE at an MLK event!! Good grief...What a pair...

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Betty, S.C. — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:11:45 GMT

READ "The end of the Obama Revolution" - This guy has it right, just out today -
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,530129,00.html

This article is one of the best I have read regarding Obama's downfall.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Joseph W. Mathews — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:14:06 GMT

The big winner last night was John McCain. After staring out this election cycle really enthused about the Democrats and their chances to retake the White House, I've had to do a double take.

Both Clintons are reminding me of just why I did not vote for one Democrat in the 90's. After supporting Kerry in '04, Obama came as a welcome breath of fresh air and I still will vote for him in the primary. However, at the rate the Clintons are going, the nomination won't be worth a damn as the GOP has been handed enough ammunition to reelect Herbert Hoover.

Speaking of Hoover, the Dow opened this morning almost 500 points down after 3/4 point rate cut. The Democrats are playing Nero while the economy burns. The best contribution both Senators Clinton and Obama could make is to get their backsides back to D.C. and weigh in on the ecnomic stimulus package. Will that happen? Yeah, right!

Mc Cain's looking better and better with each passing day.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Melissa — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:14:17 GMT

I don't know where people bought their rose colored glasses if they think Obama won the debt. He clearly would rather fight a former President then to fight either Clinton or Edwards. He went after her on the second question fine she's a big girl and she can handle it. But, it seems like Obama and his team or should we say Former President Clinton's Advisors are crying. Please stop it, this is politics and if you don't like people looking into your record get out.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

JS Detroit MI — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:14:49 GMT

Why would we want the Clinton Circus back? Well, because our dollar was worth more, unemployment was low and the budget was balanced. Gee, that was so terrible compared to today, wasn't it?

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

James, Greenville — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:15:06 GMT

Want to hear it from someone who was in the room?
Both candidates did not do themselves too much good. Most of the time (during attacks) it was a relatively small group of people applauding (not that small 10-25% of the room) except for the booing of Clinton (more than half the room). People responded to positive stuff, acknowledging in mass when they hear something they like. It was shocking the way they were going at each other. Hillary was screaming a lot; did not appear honest to me.
The winner and loser were not on the stage in my opinion. Bill Clinton was the loser and John McCain won the debate. Think about that...

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Sierra, SF — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:15:37 GMT

You reap what you sow...
The Clintons decided to 'race bait' Obama
Let's see the results....

From the LA Times:

Racial politics ensnare Democratic campaign

By Peter Nicholas, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
January 22, 2008
COLUMBIA, S.C. -- It was to be a show of unity: The two top Democratic candidates for president were to march to a rally Monday, passing in the shadow of a Confederate flag on the statehouse grounds, to celebrate the legacy of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

But while Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama were on hand to make speeches at the rally, only Obama arrived in time to march through the streets of this Southern capital. And in a sign of how the once-cordial Democratic contest has become twisted by a debate over race, some African Americans in the audience took Clinton's absence as a snub.

Even the most routine stops on the campaign trail now are taking a combustible air. Clinton's aides said she had been delayed by "confusion" over the time her plane was to leave for South Carolina, but some in the audience said the senator from New York should have marched in the parade, joining Obama.

Thomas Bell, 45, a clergyman from Camden, S.C., said that politicians often visit when it is in their interest. "But this particular march is important to us because of what Dr. King stood for."

The tensions spilled into Monday night's Democratic presidential debate, in which Clinton and Obama -- in a forum that also included candidate John Edwards -- repeatedly squared off in bitter, sometimes personal exchanges over their policy proposals and legislative records.

A day earlier in New York, a raw moment played out after Clinton attended services at a famous black church in Harlem. As she passed out hot chocolate and coffee to the crowd in the freezing weather, one man turned away and yelled at her not to come to Harlem to "steal" the black vote from Obama.

On Saturday, racial dynamics had been at work in the Nevada caucuses. Clinton won that contest, powered by white and Latino votes. But in an illustration of the racial divide, runner-up Obama picked up 83% of the black vote.

And in another possible sign of how race is shaping the campaign, the former first lady on Monday seemed to be downgrading her role in South Carolina's primary, the next contest on the Democratic calendar and one in which black voters make up about half of the electorate.

She came to the state and left with no plans to return before Thursday. Instead of trying to boost her odds in South Carolina, Clinton will use the next few days to campaign in other states, including California, New Mexico and Arizona -- all of which vote Feb. 5 and have large Latino populations.

Her husband stayed in South Carolina to campaign on her behalf. But Bill Clinton too has been ensnared in racial politics of late.

The former president angered some African American leaders recently when he cast Obama's stance on the Iraq war as a "fairy tale." He has since tried to make amends in calls to black talk-radio stations. It is unclear whether the mea culpa has worked.

Charles Perry, a trustee of Abyssinian Baptist Church, which Hillary Clinton visited Sunday, said he found the "fairy tale" reference disrespectful.

Obama "has been a state senator. He has experience. He's been out there in the community," Perry said. He added that Clinton's comment might spur a reevaluation of the former president, with some black voters wondering whether "you were like this all the time and have been covering this up."

For much of the 2008 Democratic contest, racial politics seemed nonexistent. Obama appeared to be a candidate with cross-racial appeal. Hillary Clinton seemed positioned to scoop up a healthy share of the black vote, aided in part by her husband's popularity in the black community.

Had she attended the march here Monday, held before a rally where speeches commemorated the King holiday, Clinton would have seen a crowd that was conspicuously pro-Obama. People waved signs reading "Obama '08" and "No Clinton Dynasty." Clinton still had a solid number of supporters; Edwards, the former senator from North Carolina, had fewer. A small band of pro-Confederate flag demonstrators gathered across the street, with signs reading "NAACP Bad for Blacks" and "Flag Forever."...'

Apparently, some Clinton supporters....

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Scott — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:16:03 GMT

It was a great debate last night.

However, the reality remains that Senator Clinton is going to get the nomination. Women (and particularly women over 50) have shown that they are not only going to vote for her NO MATTER WHAT but that they are going to show up in huge numbers. She has also shown that she will win the Latino vote by a large margin. What do those 2 things add up to? Huge wins in the biggest primary states on February 5 and the nomination.

At the end of the day? Women over 50 will be cheering and patting each other on the back, saying "you go girls" and "we showed them." And, America will as bitterly divided as it's been the past 4 years. At best, she may eke out a victory in the fall--the margins will be razor thin and the Dems will likely lose House and Senate seats due to the "Clinton drag" (Hardcore Dems hate to admit it but it's true--America does not want more of this drama and there WILL be a drag when Republicans and Independents show up to vote against more of the Clintons).

So, what will a President Clinton be able to accomplish with an even smaller majority than currently exists? She'll be able to make some modest changes in Iraq. Think her much vaunted "universal" healthcare is going to get through Congress? Think again.

Democrats, and particularly those women who have been flocking to her simply because they say "it's time we had a woman in the White House." Please think about what you're giving to the country with your vote for another 4 years of bitter division. We can do better.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Mary, California, MO — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:17:06 GMT

I was embarassed by the behavior and disrespect I witnessed last night!

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Ian Kal — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:17:49 GMT

My concern is we are setting the Rep up here. With a women and a African American running will middel america go to McCain?

Most do not like to talk about it and I am not sure America will support this much change.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Luanne, Nebraska — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:20:59 GMT

Despite what the pundits say, I thought Obama was fired up and showed a lot of passion. He'd make a great president. One I would be proud of.

I also thought it was interesting that on MLK day three things happened: Bill Clinton fell asleep at a MLK service, Hillary was hours late to a church service and march in SC celebrating MLK, and finally, at last night's debate, it became clear that she has given up on South Carolina because she's lost the black vote. But when you disrespect people, blatantly using them to achieve your political goals, what do you expect Hillary?

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Kelly (from Pittsburgh) — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:21:11 GMT

Why are the pundits so out of touch with the electorate? Or are they just afraid of the Clinton's and another back lash similar to their over exuberance reporting the demise of Clintons in New Hampshire.

Obama decidedly won the debate. What the media describes as bickering, was Obama setting the record straight on every Slander the Clinton's have been slinging. Hillary looked really bad in that exchange and I know only die hard Hillary fans would see it in any other way.

Obama not only won the fight, he got across his message of how he is the only Democratic candidate who has a plan to win with a majority. Which is the only real way that the Dems will be able to make real changes in the direction of the country.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Natalie — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:21:13 GMT

There is no way that I want Bill Clinton in the White House for a third term.

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Craig C. Ottawa, Kansas — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:22:40 GMT

Hillary Clinton is the best HOPE for this Country!!
Everyone get oon the wagon and vote for her!
Why anyone would vote for Obama is beyond me.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Janet Keyser — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:22:56 GMT

I am sick of this ngativity already, and it is still early on until we vote. I do know the HillBillies won't get my vote.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:23:36 GMT

Nasty Democrats? Well, why not. The Republicans have been the nastiest since, well...Nixon (aside from Gerald Ford). America seems to have adjusted to it and now, prefers a bit of salt in its' Presidential Wanna-be. Dubya has pretty much cured them on Air-Presidents however, so Nasty is cool but Dumb Nasty is not. The next President will need to be Machiavellian-Nasty, not Elmer Fuddian-Nasty.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

gene britton — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:23:42 GMT

Anyone who watched that debate last night and thinks Obama won it must have had a littkle to much to drink. Hilary gave quick and concise answers. While Obama struggled and gave halting ones. The clinton haters will be out today. Hard to tell if they are Obama supporters or just republicans. Hard to tell the difference anymore.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Sierra, SF — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:24:21 GMT

From Huff Post:

Leading Democrats To Bill Clinton: Pipe Down

Eric Risberg / AP

Footing the Bill: Is the former president hurting his
wife's campaign?
By Jonathan Alter | NEWSWEEK
Jan 28, 2008 Issue

Prominent Democrats are upset with the aggressive role that Bill Clinton is playing in the 2008 campaign, a role they believe is inappropriate for a former president and the titular head of the Democratic Party. In recent weeks, Sen. Edward Kennedy and Rep. Rahm Emanuel, both currently neutral in the Democratic contest, have told their old friend heatedly on the phone that he needs to change his tone and stop attacking Sen. Barack Obama, according to two sources familiar with the conversations who asked for anonymity because of their sensitive nature. Clinton,

Kennedy and Emanuel all declined to comment.

On balance, aides to both Bill and Hillary still see
Bill as a huge net plus in fund-raising, attracting
large crowds and providing a megaphone to raise doubts about Obama—even if some of those doubts are
distortions....'

i.e. even if they LIE about Obama
You reap what you sow

'...But there's concern that in hatcheting
the Illinois senator and losing his temper with the
news media (last week he thrashed a San Francisco TV
reporter for asking about a lawsuit filed by
Clinton-backing teachers union members to limit the
number of Nevada caucuses), Clinton is drawing down
his political capital and harming his role as a global statesman. "This is excruciating," says a member of the Clintons' circle, who asked for anonymity. "But the stakes couldn't be higher. It's worth it to tarnish himself a bit now to win the presidency."

During a December taping with PBS's Charlie Rose, a
frustrated Clinton called Obama "a roll of the dice,"
as aides tried to end the interview. Then, in New
Hampshire, he argued angrily that the story of Obama's principled position on the Iraq War was a "fairy tale," a charge few reporters bought. Rep. James Clyburn of South Carolina, the top-ranking
African-American in Congress and officially neutral,
found Clinton's tone insulting and said so publicly.

When the former president called Kennedy, the
Massachusetts Democrat gave Clinton an earful, telling him that he bore some blame for the injection of race into the contest. In any event, both Hillary and Obama made peace on the race issue at the Las Vegas debate.

The Clinton camp now fears that Kennedy is leaning
toward Obama, according to the Clinton source, though
Kennedy's office says he is making no endorsement "at
this time."

Clinton aides admit the boss sometimes goes off
script. Obama officials say this itself should be a
campaign issue. Greg Craig, who coordinated Clinton's
impeachment defense in 1998 and is now a senior Obama
adviser, argues that "recent events raise the
question: if Hillary's campaign can't control Bill,
whether Hillary's White House could."

There is little precedent for a former president's
engaging in intra-party attacks. In 1960, Harry Truman criticized the idea of a Roman Catholic president and tried briefly to stop John F. Kennedy's nomination. "I urge you to be patient," he told JFK publicly.

But in 2000, former president George Bush declined to attack his son's GOP primary opponent, John McCain....'

NOT EVEN GEORGE BUSH SMEARED HIS SON'S OPPONENT!
BILL CLINTON IS SMEARING OBAMA

'...Clinton is undeterred by the criticism and will likely keep hammering Obama if he thinks it helps Hillary.
"History will judge the impact on the Clinton legacy,
not daily or weekly political reporters," says Matt
McKenna, Bill Clinton's press secretary....'

Bill Clinton's Legacy: A SLEAZEBAG
Go back to the bimbos, Bill
That's your area of expertise

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, dishonest, unethical, divisive

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Kaye — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:24:22 GMT

Ali v. Frazier. Ouch! Let's get it on.

Did anyone hears Buchanan comments this morning on MSNBC? Obama has become "ghettoized" and is gaining only the black vote and loosing white and hispanic vote. Gee! And they say race is not an issue. LOL
Syreeta McNeal, Columbia, MO (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:05 AM)

Actually with some saying blacks should only support Obama I can see his point. I think this is the beginning of the end for Obama.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Amy B Portland, ME — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:24:56 GMT

Great analogy, First Read, it did feel exactly like watching a fight in a high school lunch room. It made me profoundedly uncomfortable, but I couldn't help but watch. Obama is like the handsome, gentle, introvert roughed up by the jocks. You want to tell him, "stop trying to reason with them! They can't be reasoned with!" The introvert loses the fight, but in the end, he ends up the leading scientist at NASA while the jocks go on to sell used cars. Clinton won her battle, but lost the war, in my book.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:25:14 GMT

Obama looked nervous, fidgety, anxious, and disengenuous.
He still refuses to say what he's going to change and how. Hillary effectively pointed that out several times.
She also exposed him to be a liar about not supporting the war in Iraq (because after he got into the U.S. Senate, he did), and about praising Ronald Reagan and Republican lawmakers above and beyond people from within his own party.
It was interesting to note that Hillary was received so well by an audience that was mixed in it's racial and gender composition. One would have thought that Obama should have had a clear advantage along those lines.
But, that wasn't the case.
In the end, Obama's face told the story. The look of frustration when his mean spirited attacks on Hillary were handed right back to him, the fidgeting, and nervously moving off to the left at the end of the debate intead of engaging the debate moderator and his two competitors at center stage.
Hillary showed herself to be a leader last night. Obama should himself to be a cheer-leader. He needs to be more specific about what he intends to change. There are too many details of his "plans" that aren't clear, or are completely missing from the mix.
In the end, The American People want real change that is born of experience, and reason.
Not just change in the way politicians talk.

Hillary For President 2008!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Joann Krohn Ft Lauderdale Florida — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:25:37 GMT

I want change. I want a women president with experience. who will take charge and get things done for our Country. Hillary your great!!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Wm., Schererville, IN — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:27:51 GMT

Hillary has never done well in the debates with focus groups; it's our own built in bias: men don't like "b.....y" women, women don't like powerful women. Immediate response to debates are about haircuts and humor, even among the pundit crowd. The real issue is not even one of policy. Unforseen events generally confront a president early on, whether it be 9-11 or the Cuban Missles. The question is at this moment do we need a fighter or a poet? If you think a poet is required not just to heal, but to reverse the extremes of the Bush years (and the GOP congress since '94), then Obama's your guy. But if you believe that the GOP is not going to go quietly into the sunset, then we need a fighter, and that's Clinton.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Westie, Oregon — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:28:29 GMT

I was dismayed to learn about the many PRESENT votes Obama cast because a bill had something in it he didn't agree with. His indecisiveness, perhaps due to lack of experience and/or desire not to take a position in case it would hurt him politically, was clearly revealed. I don't want a President who can't make up his mind and who lacks the necessary experience to serve as leader of our nation, doesn't have national security experience, and is vague about when our troops would come home. I also felt he wasn't specific on his stand on many issues - didn't have a plan that he was willing to layout the specifics on.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Bee — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:29:47 GMT

Wow! I couldn't be more impressed with Obama. He reassured the democrats, Independent and Republican that he can fight the most popular political machine in the history of American politics.

I like the way he took both Bill and Hillary Clinton on. His invocation of Bill Clinton will remind viewers about the need to get rid of dynasty.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Dumocrats 4 America — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:29:52 GMT

Yep keep broadcasting this, the republicians are licking their lips LMAO

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Sylvia, Alamogordo, NM — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:30:06 GMT

When will the truth be seen...Obama has got very little "political history" and his "present" vote (no vote) proves he is not in office to help the people he represents, but to be elected to the next higher paying job. What political history he does have is very questionable. What about his Chicago mansion and connections to Rezko. Obama still thinks people are essentially stupid and lazy and will not do the research necessary to find out what he really stands for. He will surely divide the country as never if elected. Why can't he wait his turn and prove himself worthy in the meantime?

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

RobK, Seattle, Wash. — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:32:14 GMT

Obama was awesome. That was his best night.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Hordy Culture, Agawam, Mass. — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:34:02 GMT

Sierra....your posts are long winded, trite, boorish, and BORING.
In addition to the fact that you are a mean spirited Attack-Twerp for Obama.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Kelly (from Pittsburgh) — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:34:15 GMT

Scott - I couldn't agree more. This primary election must not be about gender, race or age. If we divide into these groups we will be defeated. Even if you thought she's make a great president (which I don't), Hillary supporters need to get real about her chances of winning the general. They are very slim, if not impossible. When 50% of the country dislikes someone, telling them they are wrong is not a winning arguement. I implore women in particular to think about this.

Most peoples objections to Hillary have nothing to do with her being a woman. She had too much bad blood and history. This may be the last president election chance we have to turn this country around, before it becomes too late. We can't afford to wait 4 more years for a Democrat in the White House.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Blue state baby — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:36:55 GMT

Obama can ramble on for the longest time without saying anything. He can sting sentences together and sound very cool without ever answering a question.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

ObamaRama — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:38:04 GMT

Poor Barry, those mean Clintons won't step aside and let him be President. That stupid Hillary gets to show how much more stuff she knows than him in another dumb debate and they won't even let Kucinich play too. This just isn't fair and reality should be ashamed of itself.
Hillary Clinton is ruining the dream. She's a mean old liar who thinks that just because she would be the first woman to be president in history that means SHE represents change.

Besides, we've won ALL the primaries so far and anyone who says we didn't doesn't know what really counts, and is a racist or a ninny. Not conceding or congratulating your opponent is what Barack means when he talks about a different kind of campaign, and that's what we're running.
The Clintons are racists. They're WHITE for goodness sakes, and only white people CAN be racists, as we all know. Some old guys from the "Uncle Tom Moses" generation are still fooled by them but like Michelle (Isn't she just wonderful, graceful,gracious and more beautiful than Jackie Kennedy) says, "I think that black people will, you know, wake-up..." Michelle is so cool and can't be a racist no matter what she says.

It's not fair that Bill Clinton gets to say stuff about Barry. He was a president, now he should shut up. You don't see Edwards' or Barry's spouses on the campaign trail or saying stuff about the Clintons. It's a double-standard! If America let's the dream die it will be because everyone is a racist or a liar or something really bad. Why can't everyone just step aside like they did in Illinois and let Barry be president? What's wrong with you people? Can't you see that he's the only one? It isn't hero worship to worship him like he's a hero, and it isn't blind faith to follow him blindly. It isn't that we believe that he can do no wrong, he really can't! You better wake up America and smell what Barry's cooking...(HIS OWN GOOSE?)

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Robert Downs — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:38:11 GMT

{Why are the pundits so out of touch with the electorate? }

The so called "pundits" are looking for a good story. The Clintons are if nothing else, a great source of entertainment. Those two are as whacky as any sit-com the networks come up with, and they are good for ratings. But good for the country? Not a chance.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Richard, Las Vegas, Nevada — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:41:58 GMT

Of course everyone is simply going to say that the candidate that they are supporting won the debate. Let's not be so juvenile about this. The bottom line is that all candidates are so similar on the issues. The real question needs to be which Democrat actually has a better shot at winning the general election? I don't think that as a nation we can afford to have 4 more years of a Republican president.

Anyone who believes that Hillary actually has a better chance at winning a general election is simply denying the obvious. She is hated by nearly 60% of the country. I am sure she can consolidate the Democratic vote if nominated, but there is no way that she will get any Republicans to vote for her, and there is no way that the majority of independents will vote for her. At a time when the Republicans are lacking unity, nothing will unify them more than a Hillary nomination. If nominated, we will have a Republican president for at least 4 more years.

Democrats, please stop voting for Hillary.

HILLARY NOMINATION = REPUBLICAN WIN

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Sarah, Vienna, VA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:42:32 GMT

I want to echo another poster who mentioned that the Clintons are trying to dismiss, if you will, Obama as the "Black" candidate. Pat Buchanan just said on MSNBC that Obama has been - get this - "ghettoized!" Do they have such short memories that they have forgotten the Iowa Caucus? Obama won with the biggest margin of any contest thus far - 39% vs. Hillary's 29% - in an almost 100% white state!! OBAMA LEADS IN THE TOTAL DELEGATE COUNT!! Most voters in NH and Nevada are not African-American, yet Obama did very well in those states too. This is ridiculous for the Clintons and commentators like Buchanan to try and minimalize Obama's appeal. I am a white woman and I support Obama. Race or gender should have no impact in our preferences. I support Obama - proudly - because I think he is the only candidate who will be able to break this decades-old partisan gridlock. He is an inspirational leader who will unite Democrats, Independents, and even some in the GOP to effect real CHANGE in this country.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Sierra, SF — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:43:24 GMT

Do we REALLY want a crooked unethical woman in the White House ?

If that's what the Democrats want......
We WON'T GET IT !

HILLARY WILL LOSE !

I'd rather vote for an HONEST John McCain than a CROOKED Bill and Hillary

Judging from Hillary's negatives, I'd say American would too

The Republicans are SALIVATING over an Clinton nomination

How hard will it be to drive up Hillary's negatives ?
From 47% ot 51 % ?
Election OVER

Better Bloomberg than Clinton
Better McCain than Clinton

Obama '08
All will NOT BE FORGIVEN in November
The Clintons have burned too many bridges

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Eric from New York — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:44:31 GMT

Dear Americans,
Congratulations on electing Barack Obama the President of the United States.God bless America

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Fay Logan — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:45:05 GMT

This whole race card is disgusting. The media made a
circus of this. Instead of Clinton/Obama discussing
what they would offer to the presidency, they looked
terrible last night. I found it very difficult to
watch and thought I don't want any part of these two.
It was most embarrassing and hope not to see it happen again. Will be giving the Republicans a second
look!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Ron Jeffers, Arizona Independent — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:45:41 GMT

So McCain wants to keep our troops in Iraq for another 40-50 years? If McCain thinks that will fly with voters, he is in for a rude awakening in November.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Seeing the Forest For the Trees — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:47:52 GMT

Betty from SC,
Thanks for the article; it was indeed a good one. And, it's probably right. It does indeed look as if women, the elderly (who are supposed to have the best judgement, right?????) and hispanics are going to give this nomination to Hillary. I guess you can all congratulate each other on February 6. For what, I'm not sure. And then we can all watch our county slip further into the nasty divide we've all had to endure for the past 20 years.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Diane T, Salt Lake City, UT — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:49:24 GMT

After the debate last night, CNN had a panel discussion. The word from the two black panelists was that race would trump gender and the black vote would go to Obama. Would all of the Af-Americans going for Obama feel the same way if he looked white instead of black? After all he is half white too!!!!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Marie Salomon, Carrollton, Texas — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:49:25 GMT

I don't understand how Obama supported actually think that he will be able to make all the changes he promises. Bringing everyone one together. Has everyone forgoten this is same theme George Bush used when he ran in 2000. " I'm a uniter not a divider" He promised to work across the aisle and work with Democrats. Obama thinks he can bring over some Republicans but honestly does anyone think Republicans will work with him. The only way Barrack can do all he promises is if the Democratic party gets more seats on the House and Senate otherwise we will be in the same situation. Republicans will never make it easy on a Democratic President. Barrack is likeable and eloquent but 7 years ago people voted for a likeable president and look at where we are now. People need to vote the issues not who is likeable.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Susan Hynes. Mamaroneck, NY — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:49:42 GMT

I am a woman over 50. One who has spent a lifetime working on equality for woman and to have a woman president has been a longtime dream -- but not this woman. I was appalled last night by her arrogance, lies and distortions. I lived for many years in Illinois and this whole present thing is a sham. Study the legislature Hillary, you have it wrong. I am so heartbroken by this debate. Hillary and Bill seem to think it is not only alright to lie but also to destroy very talented, honest and decent people. This is not the America that I a white suburban woman over 50 want to be a part of. If Obama or Edwards doesn't get the nomination, I will not vote for her in the fall and I am also a life long democrat. Shame on Bill and Hillary, shame on us if we help them.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Lisa , Minnesota — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:49:48 GMT

Obama was on point last night! I felt as though a person that had been bullied for so long actually stood up for himself. I find myself wanting to debate Hillary myself. I wish I could ask her a few questions! I will never vote for Hillary and Billary ever again! Dirty, dirty politics that their motto! They will do anything to get the power of living in the white house!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Gir from Michigan — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:50:18 GMT

Are we looking for saints in this group of people? Gentlemen/Ladies this is a selfish/mean set of people. Yes, words are spoken that you & I want to hear; Yes, we are told, "the other people is at fault and I and always clean, good and work for you."; It is explained to us, in clear language, what the other guys program/idea's are.

So our job is now to figure out who will at least not work against our interests, forget for our interests. Take you pick, all the B*&ta&d* are essencially the same and there is not any significant differences.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Pat, Boston, MA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:50:25 GMT

jade: you are so right! I do remember analysts asking over and over when and if Barack Obama would ever go after Hillary Clinton.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

ZB Nevada — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:50:39 GMT

Way to go Obama: first you bring race into the campaign and now religion... can you do more to divide the Democratic Party? Is this your idea of changing Washington by dividing the democrats?

The national security and foreign policy question sealed the debate. Obama offers up the same kind of ethereal emptiness of his campaign slogans about change and unity. It is the same kind of simple mindedness Bush offered when he ran in 2000. As we have learned during the last eight years the world (and Washington) is far more complicated than just a simpleminded "can't we all just get along" approach. Obama has his foreign policy slogan based on "talking with your friends and your enemies" to match his equally hollow domestic slogan of "change you can believe in". We all know what happened with "peace in our time". Foreign nations (and Republicans) are going to eat him alive.
Similarly, he keeps relying on his position against the war in Iraq as his one claim to fame. In reality, first he was against the war before he was for the war and then he was willing to pay for the war. Republicans labeled Kerry a flip flopper and for sure they will label Obama a waffler. He never gives a straight answer on anything and has an excuse for everything (ie missing over a hundred votes in Illinois legislature and the Iran Resolution in the Senate)

As for the Hillary haters I haven't seen any substantive reasoning. All you do is regurgitate Republican talking points. When Obama attacks you claim he's defending himself and when Hillary defends herself you say she is attacking him. What you really hate her for is she has been standing up and fighting for Democratic principles all her life and you are afraid of her. Hillary is head and shoulders above the other candidates. Zb

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

can't have it both ways — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:50:39 GMT

Everybody's blaming Bill for campaigning too hard on his wife's behalf, and how it makes it seem like he's running and not her.
Funny, but I seem to recall the very same arguments against Elizabeth Edwards at one point, which seems to be forgotten here.
How about it's just as Hillary says: an enthusiastic spouse saying what the candidate can't or shouldn't and give everyone equal credit or criticism or none at all.
I didn't like a lot of what went on last night, but you have to admit that Barack was the one who started the fray. Hillary simply showed she can kick like the big boys.
If she didn't, you'd all scream she's too weak to be commander in chief.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

YawB, Atlanta, GA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:51:34 GMT

Obama won the debate? Did anyone hear him say anything substantive about any of the issues? The guy is a great orator, but does not speak of the details of the issues.
Hilary and Edwards discussed the economy, for example, in detail, while all I heard Obama say was 'we need to do this, we need to that'.
You call THAT winning a debate?

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Indygirl, Piketon, Ohio — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:53:57 GMT

To those of you who thank that Obama won the debate last night, I have one question. Were you watching CNN? He was sweating and stammering and never completely answered a question. Hillary did well but John Edwards was excellent (he had trouble with his first question though). I am also fed up with the race/gender bias. Undecided voters said that they thought John Edwards won the debate but they think Obama is more likeable. This isn't a Mr./Mrs Congeniality contest!!! Pay attention to the details and look at each candidate's plans for the future. John Edwards in 08! Come on South Carolina do the right thing for this country and vote for Edwards!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Chris, Arlington, MA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:55:24 GMT

First of all, its the MEDIA that keeps bringing up race, therefore marginilazing Obama as a black candidate, not the Clintons. Second, has everyone including him forgotten that he his half white? What if his features were predominantly white rather than black,-would the nation still be having this discussion? Would black america still embrace him as "black"? Third, the media bias towards Obama is sickening. Rather than personify all of the candidates objectively, the media continually and subjectively projects their incessant gushing. Bash, bash, bash Hillary. Limbaugh said, "do we really want to watch a woman age before our own eyes on a daily basis"? Way to go America, we've progressed on issues of race, but sexism prevails stronger and more enthusiastically than ever!!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Worray Dose — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:55:44 GMT

Bill convinced his wife to move to a heavily Democratic district where he was popular so she could run for senate. He convinced her to run for President. As he has done his entire life, he has manipulated a woman for his own gain. This entire election is about Bill Clinton wanting to be President again, and his finding a way to manipulate his way into the office. Do you really want to vote for that? I do not want to re-live the '90's. This will be a revival of the '70's, w/ both houses of Congress and the Presidency controlled by the same party. Look what happened since 2000 w/ both houses of Congress controlled by the same party. The best times we've had in recent history are the '80's and '90's, when we had divided gov't.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Betty, S.C. — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:55:53 GMT

HERE IS ANOTHER INTERESTING ARTICLE TODAY BY PAT BUCHANAN - http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/ghettoizing_barack.html

OBAMA HAS BEEN GHETORIZED - Obama is Toast.
Just a few of you black, gen X and Y supporters still ranting and raving about how wonderful Obama is.
He has lost his momentum just like Jessie did back in 1988. Jessie Jackson won 11 primaries in 1988 but he never made it to the presidency. Jessie and his mistress and his out of wed-lock child, imagine that?
Whites in South Carolina do not agree with the Black community in general especially about Barack Obama or Jessie.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

dem4life — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:56:03 GMT

I was always a big supporter of Bill Clinton, based on what my quality of life was during his administration and due to his balancing of the budget. But the person I see now is not what I like. He is showing another side of him now that he is not the candidate. He lost much of my admiration recently. And I am now an Obama supporter. I owe some of that to Bill himself.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Faye, Fargo, ND — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:56:05 GMT

The news people talk terrible about the Clintons - Not one other canidate gets raked over the coals like the Clintons. Too bad everyone is jealous of them.
I am a republican and I will vote for Hillary Clinton.
Thank you the people for showing me the right way.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Sarah T, San Jose, Cal. — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:57:00 GMT

Can we PLEASE stop the nepotism!! No more of this back and forth between the Clinton's and Bush's. If Hillary gets the nomination then does that mean that we'll get Jed Bush next time? Please God it's time for a change. Also how does Hillary claim that she has 35 years of experience... she's only been in an elected office for 7 years. Obama matches that if you include this work at Illinois State senate.

We do NOT want Hillary to get the nomination. Yes both her and Obama will be a huge upgrade over our current president but Hillary will NOT win the general election if she's nominated. There are just way too many democrats, independants and ALL republicans HATE Hillary... we'll be stuck with McCain/Romney instead.

Please see through all the mind games and political tactics that Bill Clinton and Hillary are throwing at Obama. Go to an Obama rally and listen, you'll know he's the right choice for the nomination.

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gailmd, maine — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:57:07 GMT

I agree with Pat Buchanan(gawd forbid!). If Obama becomes "the black candidate", he will lose the nomination. He was supposed to be the universal candidate.
PS...GW has dug us a hole that we will be climbing out of for 20 yrs. Not matter who is elected, the people will be unhappy with the speed of recovery and probably throw that person out in four years. My mother used to say, "Be careful what you wish for;it may not be worth having"

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

susan, MN — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:57:45 GMT

let's get one thing straight, folks...either Democrat will win the national election, hands down! Particularly if McCain is the nominee. UNLESS we split our party with all this nastiness. McCain will be hammered on the war...wanting to keep troops there for years upon end, as if we can continue spending billions every month for the debacle and letting more and more of our troops die for nothing! a great majority of the country want our troops home. Clinton will also destroy him on the economy, what everybody agrees is his weakness. His strength is foreign policy, but Hillary can definitely compete with him there (though O'bama can't). But it's the economy, stupid! so, knock off the Hillary bashing saying she cant win nationally...we know she can, otherwise the republicans wouldn't put it out there that they "want" her to be the candidate. If anything, injecting race (which it definitely was the O'bama camp doing...over and over) has made is scary to contemplate his results nationally. I no longer think he could win as he now has turned himself into the "black candidate". I would vote for either democrat, but the only one who truly has the experience, and know-how is Hillary. (I like Edwards, but he's gone too far to the left to win nationally). Let's just stick together, dems or we'll end up with another Republican in the whitehouse!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

GEORGETTE,EASLEY,S.C. — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:59:25 GMT

I THINK OBAMA DID A GREAT JOB LAST NIGHT. HE FINALLY TOOK A STAND FOR HIMSELF AND THIS COUNTRY. I HOPE AND PRAY HE WINS FOR THIS COUNTRY AND ALSO FOR THE AFICAN AMERICANS.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Morgan, Cleveland OH — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:00:12 GMT

Might it occur to anyone that Bill's instigative, mud slinging, politics-as-usual tactics can be characterized as his continuous attempt to prove that he is Hilary's reformed, monogamous knight in shining armor. I contend that Bill atoning for his past transgressions to his wife by playing the bad ass on her behalf has no place in American politics.

If Hilary wants to show that she has what it takes to be America's next Commander in Chief then she needs to take command of her husband first!! Otherwise, she is simply perpetuating the stereotypes about women. She'll prove to be a disgrace and disservice to deserving women in this country. America's ready for a woman president but this woman ain't ready to be president.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Del LaBelle Boise Id. — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:00:28 GMT

Finally Sen.Obama is fighting the clinton clown clan. about time. But I wish he would ask her to list what the 35 yrs. accomplishmetns are . Does anyone one see the mess that would happen if by some chance we would have to endure another clinton administration? We would have to watch on a daily bases billy, hilly, and pelosi jocking around for the spotlight. For the most camera time. we would have to endure a corination every week.Three spoiled, unethical, power hungry clowns bickering constantly to have their way. Please put a lock on our oval office door. The questions I need answered from each canidate is: if elected would our boarders, ports and airways be secure, would our military be stronger( it was cut to the core in the 90's, doesn't anyone remember ??), would the illegal immigration be stopped. I want to hear their answers. Please, someone ask a real question for a change. And how long will our black communtiy except the patronizing and condescending additudes from the clintons? It's embarrassing to watch. They treat them like we are back in the 50's someone wake them up. Our black Americans are educated, intelligent. have their place in all walks of life. I realize there's alot more to do. but how can they if they continue to believe these two want the best for them? I believe America's blacks are far above that kind of treatment. and hilly-billy grand standing at Dr. Kings celebration is discusting, they have no shame.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Al, KS — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:02:16 GMT

Edwards staying above it all. How'd that work out for Richardson. It's becoming obvious that you cannot win by being nice. Look at how the pudits critisized Obama for not going on the attack in the first 100 or so debates. In the end, this debate was on Hillary's terms. Nasty, mudslinging. It's dissapointing but inevitable. Sooner or later, the worst in politics bring the rest down to their level. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Michelle Griffin, Montana — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:04:01 GMT

Bill Clinton is pushing so hard for Hillary to be President so that it will keep her occupied. Once shes occupied then Bill Clinton has a chance to see more women again. Bill Clinton doesn't honestly feel that his wife can be the leader of the free world... cmon!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

MG, St. Louis, Mo. — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:04:35 GMT

Hillary, Barack, Experience
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By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: January 20, 2008
With all the sniping from the Clinton camp about whether Barack Obama has enough experience to make a strong president, consider another presidential candidate who was far more of a novice. He had the gall to run for president even though he had served a single undistinguished term in the House of Representatives, before being hounded back to his district.

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Go to Columnist Page » That was Abraham Lincoln.

Another successful president scorned any need for years of apprenticeship in Washington, declaring, “The same old experience is not relevant.” He suggested that the most useful training comes not from hanging around the White House and Congress but rather from experience “rooted in the real lives of real people” so that “it will bring real results if we have the courage to change.”

That was Bill Clinton running in 1992 against George H. W. Bush, who was then trumpeting his own experience over the callow youth of Mr. Clinton. That year Mr. Bush aired a television commercial urging voters to keep America “in the hands of experience.”

It might seem obvious that long service in Washington is the best preparation for the White House, but on the contrary, one lesson of American history is that length of experience in national politics is an extremely poor predictor of presidential success.

Looking at the 19 presidents since 1900, three of the greatest were among those with the fewest years in electoral politics. Teddy Roosevelt had been a governor for two years and vice president for six months; Woodrow Wilson, a governor for just two years; and Franklin Roosevelt, a governor for four years. None ever served in Congress.

They all did have executive experience (as did Mr. Clinton), actually running something larger than a Senate office. Maybe that’s something voters should think about more: governors have often made better presidents than senators. But that’s not a good Democratic talking point, because the candidates with the greatest administrative experience by far are Mitt Romney, Rudy Giuliani and Mike Huckabee.

Alternatively, look at the five presidents since 1900 with perhaps the most political experience when taking office: William McKinley, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and George H. W. Bush. They had great technical skills — but not one was among our very greatest presidents.

The point is not that experience is pointless but that it needn’t be in politics to be useful. John McCain’s years as a P.O.W. gave him an understanding of torture and a moral authority to discuss it that no amount of Senate hearings ever could have conferred.

In the same way, Mr. Obama’s years as an antipoverty organizer give him insights into one of our greatest challenges: how to end cycles of poverty. That front-line experience is one reason Mr. Obama not only favors government spending programs, like early-childhood education, but also cultural initiatives like promoting responsible fatherhood.

Then there’s Mr. Obama’s grade-school years in Indonesia. Our most serious mistakes in foreign policy, from Vietnam to Iraq, have been a blindness to other people’s nationalism and an inability to see ourselves as others see us. Mr. Obama seems to have absorbed an intuitive sensitivity to that problem. For starters, he understood back in 2002 that American troops would not be greeted in Iraq with flowers.

In politics, Mr. Obama’s preparation is indeed thin, though it’s more than Hillary Rodham Clinton acknowledges. His seven years in the Illinois State Senate aren’t heavily scrutinized, but he scored significant achievements there: a law to videotape police interrogations in capital cases; an earned income tax credit to fight poverty; an expansion of early-childhood education.

Mrs. Clinton’s strength is her mastery of the details of domestic and foreign policy, unrivaled among the candidates; she speaks fluently about what to do in Pakistan, Iraq, Darfur. Mr. Obama’s strength is his vision and charisma and the possibility that his election would heal divisions at home and around the world. John Edwards’s strength is his common touch and his leadership among the candidates in establishing detailed positions on health care, poverty and foreign aid.

Those are the meaningful distinctions in the Democratic field, not Mrs. Clinton’s spurious claim to “35 years of experience.” The Democrats with the greatest Washington expertise — Joe Biden, Chris Dodd and Bill Richardson — have already been driven from the race. And the presidential candidate left standing with the greatest experience by far is Mr. McCain; if Mrs. Clinton believes that’s the criterion for selecting the next president, she might consider backing him.

To put it another way, think which politician is most experienced today in the classic sense, and thus — according to the “experience” camp — best qualified to become the next president.

That’s Dick Cheney. And I rest my case.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

VoteMcCain — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:06:47 GMT

No doubt that John McCain was the big winner last night. While Billary blasted Obama like a jealous school girl, Obama spent the entire evening telling us the obvious(again not telling us how to fix it). Obama is a classic-All he's ever done is tell us what's wrong and that we need to fix it. He has yet to offer a single idea on how to do so effectively.

The back and forth between the two was embarrasing for our country. Can you imagine what the other world leaders were thinking as they watch Presidential candidates act like jealous, vindictive children? They were probably licking their chops.

John McCain is the only candidate that will not only command enough respect to get things done on both sides of the aisle in Washington(like he always has), but also will bring worldly respect back to this great country.

Come on y'all, this is serious stuff and we need a President who is Presidential...We haven't had one since Reagan.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Cynthia Albright — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:07:07 GMT

Bill Clinton is acting non-professional and non-president like. He needs to "but out". Even though he is married to Hillary Clinton, he should not show all this bias. He is suppose to be supporting the democrats as a whole. I have no idea how Obama is concentrating. You can see the frustration in his face over and over again. And he is right, I am running against two Clintons. The Clintons are underhanded at best. What Bill Clinton did in NV was completely wrong, Hillary Clinton's voters where open a half hour before Obama and they made Obama close first. This is despicable. There should be a law passed when a former President is married to a presidenial candidate, he should not be permitted to support her publically and destroy others in the Dem. Race. They are so arrogant, Democrats are advising him to stop, but does he, no way. I can't wait until that Clinton Machine goes away permanently.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

SHIRLEY METCALF — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:07:14 GMT

BAD NIGHT FOR BARACK!!!
I THOUGHT OBAMA LOOKED LIKE HE WAS OUT OF HIS LEAGUE LAST NIGHT, AND DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO TAKE ON THE BIG BOYS,-- OR GIRLS.
HE SIT'S BACK AND WATCHES AS THE MEDIA SLAMS THE CLINTONS, AND HE NEVER GET'S QUESTIONED ABOUT SOME OF HIS INDESCRETIONS. HE HAS SAID, "I AM NOT A PERFECT MAN". I THINK LAST NIGHT HILLARY GOT TIRED OF EVERY WORD THAT SHE AND HER HUSBAND SAID BEING TURNED INTO SOMETHING IT'S NOT, AND DEFLECTING THE NEWS AWAY FROM SOME OF THE THINGS SHOWING THAT OBAMA IS NOT INDEED, A PERFECT MAN. SO SHE OPENED UP SOME OF THE THINGS THAT SO FAR HAVE JUST BEEN SHOVED UNDER THE RUG. GOOD FOR HER!!!
SOME PEOPLE SAY THEY DON'T LIKE FOR HER TO SHOW STRENTH, OTHERS DID NOT LIKE FOR HER TO SHOW A SOFTER SIDE. TO ME SHE SHOWS SHE CAN BE COMPASSIONATE AND SHE CAN STAND UP TO JUST ABOUT ANYBODY --BAR NONE--
THAT, IS WHY I THINK SHE IS BY FAR THE BEST LEADER FOR OUR COUNTRY, WHEN EVERYONE KNOWS, IF WE EVER NEEDED STRONG LEADERSHIP, IT IS NOW.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Not being fooled — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:08:45 GMT

Clarence Page stated that “All blacks should be supporting Obama”. What an utterly divisive and racist remark.

If a white person said all white should only vote for a black candidate, all hell would break loose. If a woman said “all women should vote for Hillary Clinton” she would be laughed at. Why does this double standard still exist and why didn't Obama, our "candidate of change", not discredit it?

When he is need of the white vote he brings up the fact that he is biracial and that it was white mother who raised him alone, sacrificed and supported him. When Obama is pandering to the black vote suddenly he is running as a black man with no mention of his biracial heritage. When he is running for the Hispanic vote suddenly he is uttering phrases in Spanish.

Last night showed how opportunistic and transparent he can be. He is no different than any other politician in this race and no better.
Clarence Page stated that “All blacks should be supporting Obama”. What an utterly divisive and racist remark.

If a white person said all white should only vote for a black candidate, all hell would break loose. If a woman said “all women should vote for Hillary Clinton” she would be laughed at. Why does this double standard still exist and why didn't Obama, our "candidate of change", not discredit it?

When he is need of the white vote he brings up the fact that he is biracial and that it was white mother who raised him alone, sacrificed and supported him. When Obama is pandering to the black vote suddenly he is running as a black man with no mention of his biracial heritage. When he is running for the Hispanic vote suddenly he is uttering phrases in Spanish.

Last night showed how opportunistic and transparent he can be. He is no different than any other politician in this race and no better.
Clarence Page stated that “All blacks should be supporting Obama”. What an utterly divisive and racist remark.

If a white person said all white should only vote for a black candidate, all hell would break loose. If a woman said “all women should vote for Hillary Clinton” she would be laughed at. Why does this double standard still exist and why didn't Obama, our "candidate of change", not discredit it?

When he is need of the white vote he brings up the fact that he is biracial and that it was white mother who raised him alone, sacrificed and supported him. When Obama is pandering to the black vote suddenly he is running as a black man with no mention of his biracial heritage. When he is running for the Hispanic vote suddenly he is uttering phrases in Spanish.

Last night showed how opportunistic and transparent he can be. He is no different than any other politician in this race and no better.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

ken, washington dc — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:09:19 GMT

if hill clinton gets the nomination, the dems should forget the whitehouse all together, she cann't win a general!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Marie, Kentucky — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:09:36 GMT

So no to Bill Clinton...Vote Edwards or Obama....

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

John, Lake Worth, Florida — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:09:43 GMT

McCain Voted "MOST UNACCEPTABLE"-By His Own County-"The Maricopa County Republican Party met today and elected Tom Husband as the new chairman of the county party. Congratulations Mr. Husband! The county also gave an indication of who the party faithful is supporting as the Republican nominee. Here are the results out of 721 ballots cast: OVERALL VOTES (662 Votes): #1 - Mitt Romney - 28.4% (188) #2 - Fred Thomson - 18.3% (121) #3 - Ron Paul - 17.4% (115) #4 - Duncan Hunter - 14.0% (93) #5 - John McCain - 12.1% (80) #6 - Rudy Giuliani - 5.0% (33) #7 - Mike Huckabee - 4.8% (32)--- MOST ACCEPTABLE (1781 Votes): #1 - Fred Thompson - 20.8% (370) #2 - Duncan Hunter - 20.1% (358) #3 - Mitt Romney - 20.0% (356) #4 - Rudy Giuliani - 13.2% (235) #5 - Mike Huckabee - 11.6% (207) #6 - John McCain - 7.6% (135) #7 - Ron Paul - 6.7% (120)--- MOST UNACCEPTABLE (1949 votes): #1 - John McCain - 21.9% (427) #2 - Ron Paul - 20.3% (396) #3 - Rudy Giuliani - 18.3% (357) #4 - Mike Huckabee - 17.4% (340) #5 - Duncan Hunter - 8.0% (156) #6 - Fred Thompson - 7.8% (152) #7 - Mitt Romney - 6.2% (121

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:10:01 GMT

I'll see your Rezko and raise you a Hsu. Its classic Clinton. Attack others for things they have no defense of. How many unknown and/or made up Chinese dishwashers gave her $4600?

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Becky,Fairfax, VA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:10:37 GMT

Me thinks Betty from S.C. is one of those Southern Stereotypical Racists. I'll call her SSR for short.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Crystal — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:11:02 GMT

I think America is once again scared of the future except this time they want someone completly opposite of the past....silly mistake. Obama may be a good guy but he just dosn't have what it takes right now to be the President of a Country. Give him a few more years and experience....anyway who wants a First lady that actually uses the sentence "Aint no black people in Ohio"! Good Lord can you image speaking like that while representing our country!!!!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Stu Hyvonen, Saginaw, MI — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:12:29 GMT

A couple of things:

I notice that a majority of commentators to this blog are afflicted with "preferential vision", that is, they see what they want to see and ignore that which rubs against their grain rather than to be honestly objective.

Second, I see a lot of accusations about this or that candidate "telling lies", yet NONE of those commentators EVER specify which statements (especially by the Clintons) are wholly untruthful. Seems to me that, if you call someone a liar, you should at least specifically identify the lies.

Hey, folks, at least try to be honest, objective and SPECIFIC!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

J, Miami, FL — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:13:13 GMT

I voted for Bill Clinton (twice). I voted for Al Gore and John Kerry. If the Dems screw this up and nominate the Clintons (note plural because at this point I think it's clear that it's the couple that are running - in completely violation of the Constitution - I will happily vote for a Republican - i.e. John McCain.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Joyce, New York, NY — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:15:57 GMT

We need a leader who have the capacity to deal with the problems, the issues that has and will affect this nation for generations to come. As much as I like Obama, he doesn't come off as someone who can deal with these issues. He is at best a good motivational speaker. He is full of rhetorics.

Hilary might not be as likeable but she will get the job done. She understands the problem and has the capacity to get things done. She can stand up against the Republican machinery. No I don't agree that she will divide the country. I think she'll be able to turn the economy around. I really do. With a sound economy, everything else follows. It's a domino effect.

We don't need another motivational speaker. We need a good manager. That's what it's all about at the end of the day - management of the Country. From economy to foreign policy.
Perhaps the next time around, Barrack at the age of 46 isn't quite ready yet. Barrack getting the nomination is as good as getting another Republican back in office.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Kathy, Minneapolis — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:16:27 GMT

Isn't it time we end the dynasty? We have 300 million people in the US. Do we really think only two families can run our country? If the democrates don't make an issuse of this now the republicans will do it during the general election! I think it is arrogant of the Clinton's to put us in this position.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Debra GA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:17:26 GMT

well some reporter got there wires crossed it was [obama who made remarks first and hillery came back and stood up to him ] but thats nothing new there the ones that keep trying to confuse people by there comments and fuleing the fire and people listens to them because they are suppose to be reporting the truth this is serious guys our country is in trouble

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Jennifer, Madison, Wisconsin — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:17:35 GMT

At the end of the day, if Hillary Clinton is the Dem nomininee, the Dems will lose the general to the likely Republican nominee, McCain. Independents don't like her and she's the one thing that can unite Republicans. So thank you to establishment Democrats for providing Republicans with a great opportunity for another four to eight years in the White House.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

ObamaRama — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:17:53 GMT

Obama decidedly won the debate. What the media describes as bickering, was Obama setting the record straight on every Slander the Clinton's have been slinging. Hillary looked really bad in that exchange and I know only die hard Hillary fans would see it in any other way."

So post the parts of the debate transcript that back up your claim.

I'll be happy to post the parts where Barry (present!)
ObamaRezko perhaps didn't do quite as well as you fantasize.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

James, San Jose — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:18:01 GMT

This all started with thr Obama Reno interview.
If you watch the entire interview Hillary's
characterization is not what he said.
This was also debunked in the media over the
past week. Yet she keeps pushing the
mischaracterization. This is the same old,
win at any cost politics that's just tiring.
Is this the kind of truth we're going to get
if Hillary is president?

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

ObamaRama — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:18:01 GMT

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

JVS, Columbia, MD — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:19:16 GMT

Please rest assured that there are plenty of women out here who can think for ourselves, and we are most definitely NOT Clinton supporters. Please don't blanketly lump us in her so-called demographic.

Having a woman as president would be great if and only if it's the right woman. Hillary's not the one.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Linda, Key Largo, Fl — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:19:45 GMT

I am sick of this had hope for new politics I am a independent voter a woman and 55 it seems the Clintons are turning into Karl Rove isn't everybody tired of this she had a moment where she seemed human and now back to being me me me as much as I can't take another republican president can't see myself voting for the Clintons who are still fighting the wars of the last 20 years tired of the same people and the same issues and the same bickering enough they are so power hungry they would do anything to get back to the white house this last week they have really turned me off I see nothing new wake up people

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Del LaBelle Boise Id. — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:21:50 GMT

Sen. Obama has to be on the defensive with the clintons. They treat him as they do the entire black American community with patronizing and condescending additudes. He's tried the gentelman long enough but he's not dealing with any lady. IF there is a winner it has to be Sen.Obama.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

ObamaRama — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:22:00 GMT

"Obama not only won the fight, he got across his message of how he is the only Democratic candidate who has a plan to win with a majority."

A majority of WHO?

He's pulling 9% of the Hispanic vote...
Less than 40% women...
Hasn't won a majority of DEMOCRATS yet...
Doesn't win blue-collar voters, or whites.

What the hell are you looking at? If you think that AA's white-wine liberals, and college students are the new democratic coalition, you are a comedian.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Del LaBelle Boise Id. — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:22:10 GMT

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Rose Miller — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:22:47 GMT

Wake up America, John Edwards is the most presidential person running for president on both sides. We can trust what he says he is the only one acting like an adult and he is passionate to get our country back on track. I am tired of Hillary and OBama already and we have months to go... John Edwards needs more press if you notice it is always about Clinton and Obama. Keep John Edwards in the race he is our only hope we have..........

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Lily, Valparaiso, Indiana — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:23:14 GMT

Hillary did indeed come off as shrill and far from statesmanlike. Those voters from all sectors who despise her, especially the Rove contingent, will have wonderful ammunitionfrom this debate if she is the nominee. Frankly, both Obama (and I support him) and Hillary were utterly unpresidential in their personal attacks. Maybe every last Democrat in S. Carolina should vote for Edwards to send the message that these personal attacks do nothing but help the Republicans in the fall!

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Marc, PA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:24:57 GMT

Obama did what was needed. He defended himself and set the record straight. I thought Hilary came of as deceptive. Hillary on her stumps said that Obama thought the Republicans had "good ideas". This is a lie and people don't see that. Obama set the record straight and reiterated that he never said "good" in regards to Republican ideas. Clinton's response was "well, it seemed, it suggested, in the context of..." Does anybody realize that she was shown to be a liar? Obama had no choice but to decimate the slander that has been going on. Now in regards to healthcare. Speaking to numerous people, they think that Universal healthcare means free healthcare. It does not. You will have to pay for it under Clinton, Edwards or Obama's plan. Obama clearly won on this point. He even references Mass. as to the problems they are having with mandated healthcare. Nonetheless, to the common person, they probably do not realize the real deal. Under Clintons plan, you have no choice but to buy healthcare and if you cannot pay for it, you will pay a fine. Now if this is how Clinton presents her healthcare plan, do you think many Americans would like it? No one wants to be told what to do with their money. But again, this detail is not being replayed by the media. The 3 candidates all have great ideas. Neither is perfect nor are they saints. But in order for ideas to come in to fruition, bills need to get passed in the senate and congress. Unless both are overwhemingly democratic, you will need to convince Republicans and Independents to be on your side. Hillary and Bill are not liked by Republicans. It does not matter who is right or wrong, but the people who suffer will be Americans because there will be a rally against the Clintons from the Republicans. They will block her healthcare plan, her economic plans etc. Why? Because they are Clintons. Whether right or wrong, this is a sad fact. We need a president who unite both sides. Hillary is ready to take on the "attack machine" She is ready to fight. That, in my opinion does not sound like a uniter.
These are items that need consideration when voting. Obama I believe can bring about that change, or at least has a better shot than Hillary or Edwards at doing so. Obama has defended his stance. I feel he looked strong last night, I think it helps him with black and white voters. Now he needs to win big in SC. Get back to his message and focus on the key differences between he and the other 2 and let the chips fall where they may. I nor the pundits know who will be the nominee, so lets listen to the candidates and decide together.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Rafael Hernandez USAF Ret Philadelphia PA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:26:16 GMT

It is embarrasing to see our presidential candidates in such a quarrel. Like Mr. Edwards said' This quarrel will not bring healthcare etc" In another related issue, I believe America is ready for a black president,however,must be experienced. Obama has not the experience or know-how and looks arrogant. Mrs. Clinton has the required knowledge, experience and she is well known in the international community. Both have good plans for our country, but I believe Mrs. Clinton has the savy and the machinery to put it to work. I am still undecided.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

T. A. Anderson, Anthem AZ — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:26:18 GMT

Hillary keeps proving herself unlikeable. Soon she will resort to crying the day before each primary in a desperate attempt to remind women that she's still a woman, despite her butch lesbian persona. Uggh!

Obama handled her well. Too bad Edwards has that ridiculous exaggerated southern accent. Otherwise, with his wise policies, he would have been the clear inheritor of the audiences affection. (Kind of like the Gephardt-Dean dispute in IOWA, where oatmeal Kerry won, due to the public's disgust with petty bickering.

Hillary, in an attempt to seem tough, looked like a petty squabler. I wouldn't trust her to run a carwash let alone this country.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

be lovell — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:26:43 GMT

I really dont look at obama as a black man or white , but as candidate running for the white house,and last night Hillary made herself look bad by the way she tried to bash obama

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Pat — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:26:48 GMT

Behavior unbecoming of a Presidental candidate by both Obama and Clinton. Whiney Obama and defensive Clinton need to both get back on track they are both making the Democrats look petty. Neither of these won anything in my opinion, shame on both.

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

keepitreal50 — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:28:10 GMT

Betty,S.C. - You sound like a true clinton and a racist. The clintons destroyed the foundation of truth. It's amazing that some of you dull minded people believe anything they say, but that's why our country is in the trouble it's in now. Let's see - first it was bush sr., then b. clinton, then bush jr., and now you want hillary. Like I said DULL MINDED. You sound like a clinton and a racist. Down with Billary and up with OBAMA, mama. Obama "08"

First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Domenico Montanaro — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:10:56 GMT

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First thoughts: Carolina cage match

Olivier, Gaitherburg, MD — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:58:39 GMT

Well I am so ashamed with both Senator Clinton and her husband Bill. They are better than what I saw yesterday. I do understand what the stakes are. But please do not disgust the electorate. Someone said Obama was not ready, that was deep. What makes Clinton more ready? Being the president's wife does not make her more ready to lead this country. Please stop the nonsense. I know the story of this country. Let me challenge you haters on this one. How old was Franklin D Roosevelt when he was elected President? How old was Bill when he was elected President? In addition 1992 was 16 years ago, does that mean anything in 2008? certainly, but it is history. We are facing different challenges. Haters you need to use your mind and be rational.