First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Former Dem, California — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:40:18 GMT

The Change Candidate Needs to Change His Tone Towards Women
Posted February 17, 2008 | 07:07 PM (EST)
The first time Hillary Clinton ran a television ad complaining about Barack Obama's unwillingess to debate in Wisconsin, he fired back with an ad of his own about the 18 debates he's already participated in and the two more that are scheduled.
She wouldn't let it go; her subsequent ad speculated on whether he was reluctant because his health insurance care plan wasn't as good as hers.
At a televised campaign stop, someone asked him how he felt about the ad campaign. Obama, grave-faced and sympathetic in tone, opined that when Senator Clinton was 'feeling down,' she went on the attack to make herself feel better; that is, she committed an error in judgment because she was in a bad mood. That was the moment when I, and other women of a certain age, all over the country, winced.
The change candidate had embraced one of the oldest clichés in the book -- that women are held hostage by emotion, that we can't be trusted with the big decisions because, depending on our age, we're either on the rag or having a hot flash. The overtly sexist position used to be that you didn't want to entrust the red phone to a woman because women are unpredictable and irrational; a fit of hormonal pique and kaboom, we all glow in the radioactive dark. The ones who aren't instantly vaporized, that is.
The kinder, gentler version? A soft-spoken observation about what a female candidate does when she's "feeling down," the implication being that Hillary's distress over the delegate count had impaired her judgment, and that someone who loses her way like that is not strong enough to withstand the rigors of the presidency. If you think that I and the indignant gal friends I've polled are overreacting, try the acid test: Imagine any major candidate making that kind of subtle put-down about a man's psychological fortitude. In 1972, Thomas Eagleton had to have shock treatment to get us to raise a national eyebrow about his mental health, ending his brief tenure as George McGovern's running mate. Short of that, we tend to assume that the boys are steady enough to handle the job.
The interesting question is where the inspiration for the dig came from. If it was truly an off-the-cuff remark, then it's just gender-role business as usual, and the French, sadly, are right: The more things change, the more they remain the same. This might help to explain why women stick to Hillary; any woman who grew up in the transitional generation between Betty Crocker moms and Betty Friedan daughters has a special antenna for this kind of slight. We've heard it before, we know we're going to hear it again, and we'd just as soon hang with a smart girl who gets it, for all her flaws. As for the more highly educated women who poll for Obama, let's see how they feel when they find out he would think better of them if they were guys.
If it wasn't a spontaneous comment -- if someone in Senator Obama's camp thinks it's wise to use code to address and exploit our primitive fears about whether women can cope -- then whoever came up with it ought to be ashamed of himself, and the man who uttered it needs to rethink the strength of his opponent and her supporters. Beat her on better ideas, or oratory, beat her with passion and energy, but beat her fair and square, if you can. Don't talk about change and then quote from a 1950s playbook on the battle between the sexes.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

jaycee, Ventura, California — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:40:35 GMT

I see that Hillary’s new campaign theme boils down to something like “talk is cheap.” Bleh. I have to chuckle when I see all the disparaging comments about Barack’s speechwriters and complaints about how all he does is talk pretty. Some of us seem to have developed some peculiar ideas during the course of this campaign about which qualities distinguish successful presidents. If total command of policy detail and micromanagement of all things executive were the hallmark of great presidents, then Jimmy Carter would be right up there at the top of the list. Jimmy would tower over your run of the mill Lincolns, Roosevelts, and Kennedys.

Problem is, that isn’t what makes a great president. A great president inspires, unifies, and calls the country to sacrifice in time of national need. The most potent tool a president wields is the bully pulpit, the ability to command national media attention just for the asking. That is how you get things done; by building such a groundswell of public support that any sane politician will think twice before obstructing the will of the people. The great speechwriters and soaring rhetoric, the ability to convey to the people that they are part of something bigger and that we are all in this mess together, that is what makes a truly great president. How long has it been since you felt that way about your country?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:41:23 GMT

Clearly, the Clinton campaign is using Wisconsin is being used as something of a test case of how effective negative attacks on Obama can be.

Hasn't worked too well lately....
It's Hillary that is more on the defensive then Obama...

Clinton's campaign can use this decision to "disarm" as one of the reasons superdelegates should be convinced that Clinton and not Obama would be the stronger nominee for the party.

The way this campaign is going, The Clinton's must think people are so inspired by them, they will vote for them. Again, that hasn't happened a lot lately...

More importantly, what would the reaction be if Clinton were the candidate accused of borrowing lines from another politician -- even one who is a friend and who shares the same media consultant?

Since Hillary has been following the writings of her Guru from college, this is one argument she had better sidestep, or Obama will make light of her words as well....

Speaking of oppo, Bloomberg’s Tim Burger has a piece entitled “Obama Bought His Home With No Rezko ‘Discount,' Seller Affirms,” which basically concludes that everything was on the up and up regarding Obama’s purchase, even though he may have acted like he had something to hide.

If The Clinton's want to bring it up, we can always ask about the job he had at INFOUSA, you know, the company The Clinton's worked for where they were selling lists of Alzheimer's patients and having their bank accounts cleaned out.....

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Megan, Madison, WI — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:47:19 GMT

Each time Obama's opponents think they have something rotten on him, it turns out to be a paper tiger. The Rezko thing...if Obama seemed uncomfortable, he was just being wise. Rezko has been charged with criminal activity. Obama is running for president. Their names were connected. Wouldn't that make you a little uncomfortable? But as this new piece of info from the seller comes to light, people are realizing it was all hype.

The Deval Williams thing...ridiculous. The only people who care about this are scavengers.

If you haven't noticed, there are a plethora of evil things that Obama 'could' say about Hillary. We know all the stories. Knowing them doesn't make them any less scandalous. Yet Obama's campaign has avoided dragging Hillary through the mud again.

And as for Wisconsin being a "test state," haven't we had a few of those already? And didn't Obama win in those states? But wait, those states don't matter now, because now WISCONSIN is the test state. Come on people. If you think the public isn't onto this tactic of moving the goal posts, you're deluding yourself.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Enrique, Chicago — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:48:04 GMT

Hillary competes in Wisconsin by relying on negative campaigning? Maybe she should've spent more time in Wisconsin instead. I don't believe that good people of Wisconsin will buy this.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

diane — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:50:45 GMT

Patrick borrowed his theme for his gov. run from Obama. They are friends and have David Axelrod in common. I don't see the big deal if this is something they do to help out each other. Friends help out friends.
As for the campaign thing. I don't get why Hillary is concerning herself with this as it has nothing to do with her. This is about the general.
Does she concede the race to Obama? Afterall, this would only be an issue for Obama if he's the nominee.
As for Wisconsin. I think it is an unknown. It's an open primary and a very independent state. I live by the border in Illinois, south of Madison and have family there. The state is progressive and independent.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

faboo mama — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:51:12 GMT

Are you kidding me?

"The Clinton camp is hitting Obama hard on a few process issues, including over debates and campaign finance issues. While the press gets this stuff rather easily, do voters?"

After you guys have been running the Clinton's ads for free here? You have the nerve to wonder if voters get it? Do you not read the comments you approve? 90% of the people who respond are complete morons. They have no idea about political processes. Think about it like this: You have people here who say, "But what does he stand for?" Those are the people too stupid to pay attention to speeches and clearly too stupid too to actually visit a website and oh, I don't know...learn something. These are people who think that because they saw it in the TV or the internet that it's true. They don't pay attention or understand the role you play in this. You're part of the game. You're biases.

Do the voters get it? That's a steaming load right. It's dishonest. It's elitist. And once again, you've removed yourself from this process, as if you had nothing to do with it. The media's the reason we got to learn all about Lewinsky and no one cared. The media's the reason, the was no investigation into claims from the current administration and we're saddled with an illegal war. The media is the reason the dumb people run around saying "Al Gore said he invented the Internet", when he did no such thing, it was just another "truth" the media created and still use.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Iowa — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:54:30 GMT

Hillary Clinton stated at the beginning of this race that she would not sink low enough to use negative campaigning. I guess that was just another one of the CLinton Lies! Of course she will go negative because that is all she CAN do. Her campaign has been failing since coming in THIRD in Iowa. It's funny how she continues to dismiss every state in this union EXCEPT those FEW that she has won. Apparently only THOSE states are important. Way to alienate the rest of the country Hillary. I have become more and more disgusted with the behavior of the Clinton's and their campaign. Playing dirty is only showing more of their true colors and the people of the UNITED STATES are realizing this day by day. Keep it coming Hillary. You are only hurting yourself.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Brad Hill,Madison, Wisconsin — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:58:08 GMT

YES WE CAN AND YES WE WILL ! hillaryclinton.com .

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Sean — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:59:57 GMT

If a woman with Obama's credentials were running for president, the press would laugh her off the stage.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Joe Mathews, Manchester, Vt — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:01:00 GMT

Once again, the Clinton campaign doesn't get it. Firstly, any plan with a "mandate" will crash and burn in the Congress. It's like waving a "red flag" in front of a bull.

Secondly, Bill's behavior in Ohio yesterday, first with the heckler and then with the abortion foe, lends credence to Maureen Dowd's column in the "NY Times" yesterday about not being worried about Hillary on Day 1, but Bill on Day 2 and beyond. No, there should't be heckling and most of us feel that abortion should be a personal choice. Still, it demeans the role of former President to react in the manner Bill Clinton did yesterday.

I want a change in course as much as anyone, but the continuing antics of both Clintons are making it harder and harder to support them now and in November, should she be the nominee. I've had enough of the 90's Clinton soap opera and so has the country.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Jeff, Santa Barbara, CA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:03:07 GMT

Just Words. Everyone is copying from Obama because he has been consistent with his message and it has been working for him. It is ludicrous to criticize Barack for his eloquence and ability to effectively communicate with everyone. The illustration by Barack of how "words" matter was right on, especially after Senator Clinton referred to his speeches and "words" as cheap. This weekend, I had dinner with my brother-in-law, a stauch Republican from Orange County, California, and he says he will vote for Barack against McCain, but would vote for McCain over Clinton. Words obviously do matter; people are listening from right to left, and down the middle.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Betsy, Kansas City, MO — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:04:31 GMT

So what about when Clinton steals phrases from Obama...like change, and fired up/ready to go, and yes we can....

Can we call her out on plaigarizing too please?

or would you get an angry phone call from her camp?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:05:03 GMT

It should be clear by now that Obama is a phoney who only ran for the U.S. Senate so he could use it as a springboard to the White House.
It was never about serving the people of Illinois, as it should have been.
If it was, he would have finished out his term and ran in 2012 or 2016.
It's also clear that he plagiarizes his speeches from political allies, and from previous office holders.
"Yes we can," for instance, comes from a speech Bill Clinton delivered in 1992 when he was running for President.
The fact of the matter is that Obama doesn't have an original thought or idea in his head. The evidence of this is the fact that none of his supporters can tell you what qualifies him to be President, or what he stands for.
If you ask them, they say "go to the website." That's not an answer, that's a cop-out.
Hillary is out there talking about her ideas to strengthen the economy, and her vision for what the international role of The U.S. should/would/will-be in the post 911, post Bush years to come.
She has a plan to deal with everything from health insurance, to home forclosures, to post war Iraq.
If you don't hear Obama talking about these things, it's because he doesn't have a clue, beyond "change, hope, and yes we can."
Words and talk....versus PLANS and ACTION.
Thats the basic difference between Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton for President 2008!
PLANS & ACTION, not catch phrases and buzz words.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Sarah — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:05:56 GMT

America IS ready for a Woman President...JUST NOT this one!

Nancy Pelosi...YES!

Hillary Clinton....NO!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Lisa, Minnesota — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:07:13 GMT

There is nothing that the Clinton campaign can say or do to make me change my support for Senator Obama! I really believe in his message and I know in my heart that he will include us the people and be honest with us about important issues that effect us! He spoke out against the war in Iraq when I was protesting in the streets and I honor him for that with my vote on super-tuesday and again on election night Nov 08! Thank you Mr. Obama!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Ron, TX — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:07:13 GMT

If the fact that Obama has a speechwriter, and borrows some good phrases from friends who whole-heartedly support him, is really the ONLY negative "dirt" that the Clintons can drag up on Obama... then what on EARTH makes people think the Republicans are going to do any better?!

He has a speechwriter! Ohhh myyyy god! How scandalous! Guess what? So does Hillary... and every other politician. That's why their judgment is absolutely important. Hillary's judgment is continually flawed (she failed miserably when she tried health care in 93/94, she failed on Iraq, she's failing on Iran with the Kyl-Lieberman war-hawk vote). Obama seems to get it right -all- the time.

And the Rezko thing? The Clintons want to act like that's a big deal? They can't even find any legislation supported by Barack that helped Rezko for cryin' out loud! I'm glad this piece finally came out that there was no massive "discount" on the property. But the Clintons, they want to ignore Norman Hsu, Peter Paul, cattle trading futures, etc etc, THEIR list is hundreds of pages long. And all they can come up with against Obama is "speechwriters!"??

If it's mudslinging Republicans we're afraid of in November, then the Clintons are making it quite clear that Obama is the right choice. If all they try to scream is "B. Hussein has speechwriters and got a good deal on some land to expand his back yard!", then Obama's got November in the bag 60% to 40%.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Gus Acosta, Edgewood, Kentucky — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:07:42 GMT

Sick and Tired what are you talking about? Just because a candidate is a woman or black that hard questions or a harsh critique should not be done. Hillary can take care of herself and so can Obama. Are we ready for a female candidate? Most people would say we are, but not Hillary Clinton. The truth hurts so get over it.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:07:52 GMT

"...If a woman with Obama's credentials were running for president, the press would laugh her off the stage. ..."
Sean (Sent Monday, February 18, 2008 9:59 AM)

Exactly, Sean. Couldn't have put it better myself, you hit the nail right on the head!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

James G., Oak Park, MI — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:09:44 GMT

If a woman with Obama's credentials were running for president, the press would laugh her off the stage.
Sean (Sent Monday, February 18, 2008 9:59 AM)

And a man with HRC credentials wouldn't have made it to Iowa.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Kate — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:10:58 GMT

I hope Obama wins the nomination.

I'm pretty certain, the college students like myself that Obama has attracted to his campaign will not show up for Hillary. Her message of remember the 90s does not resonate with young males or females

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

MK,MO — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:11:22 GMT

sick and tired rants / 'So the gang rape of the female candidate is over...so now we see some of the perpetrators hand her a blanket and apologize. Many of the men in country should truely be ashamed of themselves. Ready for a female candidate in the US? I think NOT.'

many of the women in this country should be 'truly ashamed' for backing a candidate just because of their gender with complete disregard of any meaningful issues, this country is more than ready to elect a women president, if one that is worthy of the office decides to run, hillary ain't it, and the constant whimpering of you sexist females is growing painfully tiresome and silly

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

russell, willamson,WV — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:13:40 GMT

It appears that this network does not miss a chance to say negative this about Hillary or Bill Clintonbut when it is revealed that Obama steals other peoples speeches they give him a pass. I did not see the media give Joe Biden a pass when he used a speech by a british labor canidate. He was forced out of the race and has never lived it down.

It now appears that the thrill that Chris Matthews felt up his leg was not from Obama but rather from Devall Patrick. Yes words do matter especially if you steal them from someone else. Media coverage matters too especially when it is so blinded by love that it fails to do its job and be somewhat impartial.

As for me and my view of MSNBC is in the words of B.B King "the thrill is gone." Noticed I gave B.B King credit more than I can say for Obama the magnificent.
Maybe today he will deliver the Gettysburg address and you guys can swoon and say what a great speaker he is.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:15:09 GMT

"...So the gang rape of the female candidate is over...so now we see some of the perpetrators hand her a blanket and apologize. Many of the men in country should truely be ashamed of themselves. Ready for a female candidate in the US? I think NOT. ..."
sick and tired (Sent Monday, February 18, 2008 9:40 AM)

Truer words were never spoken. The media has been extremely unfair to Hillary, while giving Obama a pass on everything.
Imagine, the seller of the house declaring that Obama is innocent. What did you expect the man to say...he's got Barrack's money in his pocket. We all know Rezko was knee deep in that deal, and something STILL stinks!
I'm quite surprised that they even posted your message here.
Because, three of the MEDIA-PERPS who took part in the yellow journalistic gang rape that we watched these last three months are the three HARLETS who run this board.
First Read and MSNBC ought to be ashamed of themselves.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Dan, Ohio — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:15:28 GMT

I have to agree with "former dem" from California post -

"Beat her on better ideas, or oratory, beat her with passion and energy, but beat her fair and square, if you can. Don't talk about change and then quote from a 1950s playbook on the battle between the sexes."

I'd like to see focus on real issues not personalities. I'd like to see who wrote and sponsored more bills in the Senate. I'd like to know who has better foresight, who has better command and understanding of the issues. I'd like to see who really rolls up his/her sleeve and get to work.

Every politician can shout change. Particularly against the Bush administration. We all want change. The question is who can truly deliver us out of this mess. It's not about gender or race, it's about capabilities, job knowledge, experience.

I'd like to note that Hilary's 'attacks' are at least focused on issues. Because Obama truly should be scrutinized at this point. Someone has got to do it.

I'm hoping MSNBC give this post a chance.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Yes We Will — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:15:49 GMT

Please come visit, hillaryclinton.com .

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Naomi, Dayton, OH — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:16:09 GMT

Can we stop all the bashing? Yes, Clinton is less then honest, but that's the nature of politics in this country. They all spin webs of deceit to further "the cause". I will vote for the democratic nominee in November, but I don't buy that Obama's hands are so clean...he is a polititan remember. I also remember 2000 when Bush ran on changing Washington. I'm a uniter not a divider.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

J of Ark — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:16:49 GMT

Obama should be ashamed of using someone else's "catch-phrase" and not crediting it to the person who developed the pitch. He has finally given credit to the lady in South Carolina who came up with his ra-ra line at the end of his stump speech. But with all his soaring rhetoric, can't he pay someone to write for him something original? Is he running out of ideas? He seems to be a big "borrower" - which makes you wonder what else he will choose to plagarize? My point - wasn't Joe Biden forced to give up his bid for President his first outing because he "borrowed" words from someone else? Why does Obama get away with this and other factual indiscretions and inprecisions time and time again - has the press changed the rules or have they gone to sleep at the wheel?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Give Me A Break — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:17:42 GMT

Plan & Actions - Are you a schill for the Hillary campaign? Please give me a break! Clinton ran for senator with the intention to do what? Do good for the people of New York... Yea, right! The solutions that Hillary professes will bankrupt the US and the cut and run solution for Iraq will only make bolder the terrorist. Sorry my freind, we need Hillary Clinton like you need another hole in your head.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Chris, Denver, CO — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:19:02 GMT

To Former Dem from California -

By "Down", Barack meant in the Polls not emotionally. Maybe you are the one trapping yourself in a cliche?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

air sick — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:19:17 GMT

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Grimsby, NY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:22:26 GMT

Campaigns are about making speeches. Mcain is making them so is Clinton 1 and 2 (two candidates - every election day we watch one victory speech and one defeat speech from the Rebublicans and three from the Democrats on CNN).

I have seen posts and read articles regarding both candidates true accomplishments and solutions and failures (hillary with the very bad plan of mandating health insurance and Obama with the graduallly weak and eventual not yet signed nuclear bill). Without nasty can supporter of each show their actual solutions. Its easy for one side to say they are about solutions and the other is not.

(Note I have seen figures such as this "152 bills in year 1 in senate for Obama and 820 bills in legislature and 20 bills became law for Hillary but no figure on total bills" - more details needed).

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

John & Liz — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:24:01 GMT

We enthusiastically support Hillary Clinton for President! She is clearly the most qualified, most electable candidate in the race of any party.

For example, Ohio LOVES Hillary, Hillary beats Obama in Ohio and more importantly, Hillary polls well against McCain in Ohio, while Obama loses to Obama in Ohio. As Ohio goes, so goes the nation. No one can win the Presidency without winning Ohio. It's that simple.

Hillary Clintin can win big in the big states that are must wins for the Dems in November. This clearly makes Hillary the strongest, most electable candidate the Dems could nominate. We trust that the good people of Wisconsin will realize how important their vote is tomorrow and how important it is to vote for Hillary Clinton.

Let's not squander our best chance for victory in November. VOTE SMART! VOTE HILLARY CLINTON!!

Ask yourselves why the corporate owned media has a 24/7 hit job out on Hillary Clinton (MSNBC has been blatantly shameless in attacking Hillary nonstop, just this morning ole Joey Scarebrough was attacking the Clintons, AGAIN and yesterday, Chrissy Matthews who hates Hillary was using his show to Clinton bash AGAIN) They promote Obama because they want a President McCain! WAKE UP VOTERS, don't get fooled again by the media!

NBC reached yet another low by digging up ole Bob Novak from under a dirty rock and allowing him back on the air to Clinton bash (CNN FIRED NOVAK). ENough already!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Ryan, Central, CT — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:27:15 GMT

Clinton HAS to go negative! As widely reported just recently, the press has given Obama a free pass and allowed him to go from state to state making grand speeches with no plans to back them up. Hillary is beaten up by the press at every turn, Obama gets to do as he pleased. The Clinton's are now forced to do the job of the media and highlight Obama's flaws before it's too late and Democrats nominmate a man no where near ready for the job of President just because he is a great public speaker. GOOD LUCK HILLARY!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

carlyn chen — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:28:19 GMT

Barack Obama has made himself too perfect. Any reality checks will move him nowhere else, but down.
Make him a human, who promises public financing but acts differently, who uses scripts to sound like God_sent savior to US's problems.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Bonnie Pagenkopf, Lenexa, KS — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:29:26 GMT

We caucused for Barack Obama in Kansas. Proudly! If Hillary Clinton ends up being the nominee, John McCain will have the vote of these 70 and 73 year old voters. We would vote for George W again before we would help put the Clintons back in the White House. Morally what Bill Clinton did for the children of this country was reprehensible!!!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Kathryn, Louisville, KY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:29:54 GMT

"It should be clear by now that Obama is a phoney who only ran for the U.S. Senate so he could use it as a springboard to the White House." Sean says.

Wow! Hillary sets up camp in New York for what purpose? Hillary joins "conservative" committees in the Senate for what purpose? hmmmm....You can't tell me, Sean, that she wasn't trying to springboard herself. She checks the wind every morning before she makes any decision and she can't even run a presidential campaign without Bill. Obama is a thinker and he is way more trustworthy than Hillary. I consider his (Barack's) lack of experience in congress as a lack of time to be corrupted. In my opinion, he has had excellent experience in the real world. Bill and Hillary are out of touch and corrupt now. Sad to say.....

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

gene britton — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:30:30 GMT

Starting with NH and continuing thru today,Obama and the media have made this campaign about race. Gender is hardly ever mentioned and when it is mentioned, it its mentioned in relation to a race question. It was used to solidify the black vote prior to the South Carolina primary and you look at the results of every state and the black vote is going 80 to 90% to one candidate (this includes black women). Qualifications and experience makes do difference. Is this not a hell of a way to elect a President. I thought we did this once before, his name was Bush. Just wait until McCain and the republican party get after him, its not going to be a pretty sight.The republican party has almost no black support, so they can go as hard on him as as they want and not worry about losing any support.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Jenny Chevy Chase MD — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:31:30 GMT

If a man used his wife's resume to run for President as Hillary is doing with Bill's presidency, he would be laughed off the stage

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

M. Richter. — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:32:36 GMT

I am still concerned that Vince Foster committed suicide in the 90s while been investigated as Hilary's partner in the whitewater case. Obama does not even whisper of this and many other funny dealings including in countries as far spread as Ukraine. I am also concerned with the Tyra Banks interview that cast Bill's fphilandering as the one case with Lewinsky where Hillary claimed she was dissapointed and thought what was best to do for her (as if it were a one case rather than a twenty year event with Jones, Lesinsky, Willy, Flowers. I do not care much that Bill did those things and I supported him then - it is their personal business (although I wish they didnt). It is my responsibility to teach my children it is not ok.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

GM, Wisconsin — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:36:30 GMT

If Obama actually had a message, people might be able to believe in it. But so far, it's all just glorified speaches and rhetoric and leading all the sheep to the next barn for another glorious speach.

If you want real SOLUTIONS please visit www.hillaryclinton.com

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Chaunda,Indianapolis — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:39:22 GMT

"If Hillary walked on water, she would be criticized for not swimming," Lehane said. "And if Obama swam, he would be lauded for being able to do what Hillary could not do."

I do not like a lot of quotes and cut and paste style but this one goes to the heart of much of this hoopla.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Sick of corruption — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:40:30 GMT

I don't oppose Hillary Clinton because she is a woman. I oppose her because of the following:

Turning $1,000 into $100,000. Nice trick, Hillary. Please show me how you did that. On second thought, don't. I am just a private citizen. If I do that, I will go to prison.

The Lincoln bedroom. Other presidents from both parties had the proper respect for the most hallowed room in the White House. Not the sleazy Clintons.

Sandy Berger. Are those classified documents in your pants, or are you just glad to see me?

Travel office firings. I am Hillary Rodham Clinton. I will fire whomever I want to fire. Your laws don't apply to me.

Norman Hsu. This guy makes Tony Rezko look like a saint.

Peter Paul. Uh oh, Hillary supporters. You might want to Google this guy. Skip over the Peter, Paul, and Mary links. Peter Paul could be another thorn in Hillary's hallowed personna real soon.

Tax returns. Still haven't released them, Queen Hillary? That's OK. I am sure you are not hiding anything. Move along. Nothing to see here.

DNC rules. I agree that Florida delegates won't count. Oh wait, I won Florida, so they should count. I also agree that Michigan delegates won't count. Oh wait, I won there, so they should also count.

Bubba. It amazes me how many people take this guy seriously, when he talks about women's rights. This is a guy who thinks women were put on this planet for his own amusement.

Rose Law Firm billing records. I can't find them. They are gone forever. Oh wait, here they are.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

Barack Obama seems to be a person of good character. Believe it or not, that counts for something. The Clintons had 8 years in the White House, and they shamed this country repeatedly with their scandals. Now they want another term?

I'll pass.

Obama in 2008!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

dimitri T. california — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:41:00 GMT

barack will be crusified by mccain!!
i hope the democrats nominate him.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

janice — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:43:31 GMT

IF she keeps Wisconsin close? On Feb. 5th she had a double digit LEAD. This is a state she should win. Bill won it twice by large margins. He has been all over the state for her as has Chelsea. She has been there for years. So if it is close, It is more a question of how did Obama win a state that HRC should have owned?

As far as the words don't matter issue, what I find more interesting is why is HRC stealing Republican attacks that were waged against Gov. Patrick and using them as her own? Seems she is using a Republican playbook. Much ado about nothing I would think. Perhaps you could explain why HRC's speeches steal Obama's themes now, use his Yes We Can chant, why McCain uses "Fired Up and Ready to Go." Patrick and Obama are friends and have been close during both of their campaigns. If this is the BIG issue, I say people are missing the boat.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Eric, Michigan — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:45:35 GMT

In response to Obama's quote, "when Senator Clinton was 'feeling down,' she went on the attack to make herself feel better; that is, she committed an error in judgment because she was in a bad mood."
former DEM wrote, "That was the moment when I, and other women of a certain age, all over the country, winced."
--
WHY?? The statement you quoted had NOTHING to do with being a man or a woman. This says way more about you than anyone else.

PEOPLE have a tendency to attack when the feel "down." The fact that Hillary is a woman has NOTHING to do with it. If anything, it says more about her campaign. Anyone who reads into those words is probably dealing with issues of his or her own. You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading this nonsensical drivel.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

AP from IL — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:46:18 GMT

I'm not bothered by the Clintons going negative at all. From her perspective it's about the only option she has left. I look forward to it as just another opportunity for Obama to shine.

Interesting clips this morning of Bill Clinton, once again losing his temper over the weekend. Quite a contrast to the dignity, calm and control that Obama always seems to have no matter how tough things get.

These next few states are going to be tougher, because Bill and Hillary have dug in their heels and decided this is their last stand. I don't want to have to see them go down in flames but I hope that the people left to vote will make it decisive in Obama's favor.

We need a president with vision, moral clarity, good judgement and a steady hand. Hillary's choices in her past votes, and in this campaign have been questionable at best. I have seen nothing that convinces me she would be a better president than Obama.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

James , Oregon — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:47:20 GMT

The Clinton's have ZERO credibility with the American people.They can't go negative and point there finger at anyone for any thing , because they have four fingers pointing right back at them.

Clinton's just don't "get it" .........the people are so sick of there kind of politics. Every time Bill gets out there and opens his mouth , it takes people right back to that place in time when he looked the American people in the eye and said....( I didn't have sex with that woman ).

Yes America is ready for a woman President "BUT NOT THIS WOMAN"..........she gives women A BAD NAME.

Turn the page
YES WE CAN

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

MK,MO — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:48:57 GMT

how can any clinton supporter say anything about obama stealing other peoples material when clinton herself has stolen more material than all the other candidates combined, you're not fooling anyone, now she has the gall to steal edwards populist message damn near verbatim, all the while wallowing in the millions corporate america gave her, you do remember who signed nafta into law don't you, clinton intends to carry on the quest for a true 2 class america, she will help no one other than her elitists buds

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

lionred — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:49:47 GMT

Obama is a loser. I will never vote for this phony! My vote goes to Hillary Clinton, someone who doesn't have to steal others lines and someone who has worked hard for were she is at and isn't lazy like Obama. Only losers vote for Obama! By the way Obama worshippers, your negative attacks on Hillary is backfiring. You will need Hillary Clinton supporters to win the White House you complete idiots. I can tell you, we will never forget how you Obama supporters tried to trash Hillary. So to hell with you and your guy Obama!!!! Be smart, vote Hillary in 08!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

anton b, otsego, mn — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:49:48 GMT

It is shameful how hateful the Obama bloggers are. It is also shameful how the media has attacked Hillary because they are terrified to have a women president. Obama is a nothing. He is all speaches. Now we find out the speaches are'nt even his. Wake up America!! If Hillary does not get the nomination, my financial support and vote will go to McCain. It will be the first time I have ever supported a republican.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Kaye, NC — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:51:49 GMT

Former Dem/California
I too, am a woman of "that certain age". I consider myself as feminist as the next sister, but I really think that you are overreacting to Senator Obama's comment. His use of the word "down" does not necessarily denote a particularly "female" mood. I have a six foot, four inch, 250 pound husband who is as male as they come and he has his "down" moods much more often than I. Some people (regardless of their sex) are more susceptible to such feelings, and I venture to say that Mrs. Clinton is feeling particular susceptible these days. She also does have a tendency to strike out when threatened, (as would possibly a man in the same situation) and I think that is what happened in this case. She is in a vulnerable place right now and negative attack ads are the political tactic that is typically employed under these circumstances by the Clinton campaign. I also find it hard to believe that Senator Obama is "sexist" in the way that you are suggesting. I can't imagine him having the relationship with Michelle Obama that he has and having such opinions. I think he made an honest observation about Mrs. Clinton's state of mind these days and what motivates her. On the other side of the coin, you could be correct in your accusation that he is pointing out a perceived "weakness" that voters might find objectionable, but, as I said, I don't believe that weakness is necessarily female, and politics is politics. They will both say things about the other in this race that they think diffentiates them.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

HP Boston — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:52:19 GMT

YES WE CAN! Sounds like a can opener commercial.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Lynn — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:52:55 GMT

If a woman with Obama's credentials were running for president, the press would laugh her off the stage.
Sean

_________________________
And if a man with Hillary Clinton's "qualifications" were running, he wouldn't even get a single vote! Think about it -- what if a man were the brother of the governor of Arkansas, and then the president of the U.S. And what if that brother hadn't had any official position whatsoever in the governor's or president's cabinet or staff. And what if that brother had a grand total of 8 year in the Senate, with zero experience in any state legislature, and had gotten into the Senate strictly by carpetbagging (moving to a different state favorable to him) then running on his brother's credentials? The non-governor/president brother would get absolutely NOWHERE relying on his brother's credentials. Yet that is precisely what Hillary Clinton is relying on, i.e., Bill Clinton's credentials. What does it really matter that she was first lady of Arkansas and then first lady of the U.S.? What exactly did she accomplish during that time? Absolutely nothing! She was given one task, namely to get "universal" health care passed, and she botched it up so completely that it is still almost impossible to fathom the idea of getting such a program passed!

So before any of you Clinton supporters start making claims like this against Obama, maybe you should take a cold hard look at your own candidate. There simply ain't much there.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Melissa, Petoskey, MI — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:53:58 GMT

First of all, I agree with everything Faboo Mama said previously. With the media putting their own spin on things, some people entirely draw their conclusions about the candidates based on it, are truly dissillusioned, and it shows in some of the comments on here. Secondly, I think Clinton's direct attack on Obama's rhetoric is the wrong move. Words do matter. This country would be in a far worse status if it wasn't for words. Lastly, if Clinton steals Wisconsin tomorrow, either she has more of an established base there than we thought or it will be dumb luck. If I were a resident there, I would feel snubbed and shunned because she chose to rally in the more "important" states to catch up to Obama in delegates.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

FL — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:56:22 GMT

"Obama should be ashamed of using someone else's "catch-phrase" and not crediting it to the person who developed the pitch. He has finally given credit to the lady in South Carolina who came up with his ra-ra line at the end of his stump speech. But with all his soaring rhetoric, can't he pay someone to write for him something original? Is he running out of ideas?"

You can’t be serious…. Where have you been the last year in this campaign? Hillary and now McCain have stolen phrases from Obama time and time again but that doesn’t seem to bother you. Remember the “Change” quote from Hillary you think she made that one up. Or how about “I’m fired up and ready to go” do you think McCain really came up with that line. Please know all the facts before you choose to post on this board because it makes you look uninformed and the last thing this country needs is more opinions. But what we do need is more facts.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Norma Comer, Whitney, Texas — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:58:44 GMT

I am a Clinton supporter and I live in Texas. I have been an avid viewer of your network for several years, and up until recently I have felt your network has been fair and balanced when it comes to covering the upcoming elections. I am dissappointed in the way your coverage of Hilary Clinton is extremely biased, while your coverage of Mr. Obama is being treated as "the Second Coming". I feel Mr. Obama is a very intelligent man, nor do I wish to dismiss his accomplishments, but your coverage in comparison to Mrs. Clinton is far from fair and balanced journalism.

Although you have many loyal viewers, this viewer is strongly considering another network to obtain my news coverage. Your job is to report the news fairly, and it's not your job or any other media outlet to potray your views to elect our next President. Quite a few people in my hometown feel the exact same way, and it's a complete disgrace. Shame on you!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

MN, Boston, MA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:00:02 GMT

MSNBC, no redemption for you. In fact pathetic is the word. Senator Obama's whole campaign is about words, and now he is caught stealing even those. And this is not a story? Come on! It is THE story and you know it. It is pathetic and ridiculous. You are pathetic and ridiculous for not looking into anything. You are making yourself a laughing stock. Blech! And remember Massachusetts voted for Hillary. Just saying.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Michael, Brentwood TN — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:02:23 GMT

If you seriously believe that Hillary Clinton has a better chance of winning in November that Barack Obama, you're simply delusional. It may not be fair, but with 16+ years of press coverage, mostly negative, Senator Clinton will invigorate the Republican base. Millions of young voters and black voters will simply stay home on Election Day if Obama is not on the ballot. Since the Republicans are so weakened by the Bush legacy, Clinton may still win, but it won't be the mandate for serious change that an Obama victory would signify.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Alan, NJ — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:03:30 GMT

On the BO / DP speech issue. How is DP doing in MA? Just talking or are things "changing"? Anybody from MA got any comments?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

jaycee, Ventura, California — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:07:22 GMT

Former Dem, I’m a bit puzzled at how you could bring up Eagleton in 1972 as an example of how men have gotten a free pass on this issue and ignore what happened to Ed Muskie in New Hampshire that same year. Ed’s political career came crashing down when the press reported that he had tears streaming down his face while defending his wife from unfair attacks. Later some members of the press acknowledged that it might have just been melting snow.

I also was surprised that we didn’t hear more about that bit of primary campaign history when the press made a big deal out of Hillary’s rare display of emotion in the New Hampshire this round. Many of us reacted to that story in the same way you are responding to Barack’s insensitive remark. I thought the story should have been about how cultural attitudes have evolved over the years to make it easier for candidates of either gender to show that they are subject to normal human emotion. Mitt Romney didn’t get the Muskie treatment this cycle when he became emotional, and I didn’t actually hear many echoes of the old stereotypes in the coverage of Hillary, either. I thought for a moment that Edwards was about to go there in his initial response, but he quickly pulled back.

It shows what a minefield we are trying to navigate here. Bill ran into a similar problem when he suggested that Barack is a Jesse Jackson style candidate, implying that whites would never vote for an African American candidate in sufficient numbers. I think it’s useful to point out why we need to be careful about the language we choose, but we also need to recognize that times have changed and many, hopefully most, voters have already moved on.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Julian — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:08:19 GMT

Those who support an uninspiring loser because she is a woman, will end up bewildered in November as to how they lost the presidency to the GOP.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Tim — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:08:46 GMT

Hillary negative approach will surely backfire in Wisconsin and else where. Most voters do not respond to negative attacks. Hillary aught to debate Obama on the issues not characteristics. Her constant whining makes her look weak and pathetic. An upset in Wisconsin's primary is highly unlikely. Obama has been leading in three polls since Feb 8, has the support of union, governor and mayors in Wisconsin.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Fred C Dobbs Sierra Madre, CA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:10:07 GMT

Obama "borrows" some lines - no harm no foul.

If Hillary Clinton had done the same thing MSNBC would have been out there with chain saws cutting her to pieces.

There you have it - The Obama Free Ride Express!!

For those that keep score: 90% of MSNBC coverage of Obama has been positive. 60% of MSNBC coverage of Hillary Clinton has been negative!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Chad, Salt Lake City Utah — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:11:52 GMT

I watched "the return of the capitol gang" last night on one of the video clips. The woman on there made a great point that HRC people are not getting: Playing the victim is not working. No one is attacking hillary Clinton because she is a woman, but she is constantly acting like it. She is being attacked because she lacks integrity and she lies maliciously. Obama's response that she was feeling down and responded in that way had nothing to do with woman until some angry feminist got on here and made it all about woman. Ironically, at the same time clinton is doing this, Obama is talking about how he is not afraid to overcome racism and that he doesn't want it to be an issue, while Hillary is doing everything short of demanding she be elected by an Affirmative Action clause.

PS: I am a feminist (yes men can be feminist too). I spent a lot of time in college studying what feminism is, and what it isn't, and I can tell you nothing has is more disgusting to true feminists then the way women supporters of Hillary Clinton have

A: Openly admitted by the truck-full that they will vote for hillary BECAUSE she is a woman and

B: Shamelessly played the victim anytime anyone says anything that is not "vote Hillary." It is hurting your campaign. People have no problem voting for a strong feminist who will fight for equality between the sexes (that is the TRUE definition of Feminism by the way, which is why men can be feminist). No one wants to vote for the Vindictive Feminist who is out to punish men for being alive, and that is what her supporters are turning her into. If you don't believe me watch the clip.

Finally, stop whining about how the media is so unfair. They report what is happening. It happens to be that what is happening is that Hillary is losing and throwing cheap shots at Obama because of it. The media is not "out to get the Clintons" because they hate them, it just happens to be the things that both of them are doing are stupid right now.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Larry Finkelstein, Nashua, NH — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:12:09 GMT

Just Words? Whose words? Noone seems to have noticed that the phrases candidate Obama is alleged to have stolen from Governor Patrick did not originate with the governor. All three were uttered first in th1s country by historically famed American leaders: "I have a dream...", Martin Luther King; "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal", Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence; "All we have to fear is fear itself", Franklin Delano Roosevelt. These ideas have long been part of the warp and woof of America itself. They can no more be stolen than freedom itself.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

JC Syracuse New York — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:13:13 GMT

To all the Obama supporters I`m an Asian American living in new york for over 20yrs..During this election campaign I`ve come to understand hoe evil all you folks are and that includes the media too..We are a super power and over the last 200+yrs men have ruled this country and look how many times we have been to war and some for no damn good reason..A lot of Obamas support comes from Blacks who think the white folks owe them something for the slavery days...Well I have have news for you too..My ancestors were slaves to the Brits for a long time but we don`t go around asking for free handouts..In the days gone bye that was the trend..Likewise the blacks were the ones who sold their people as slaves to the white folks..Look back now and thanf God you are in a beatiful country that offers opportunities to everyone..If you don`t make an effort to better your lives blame yourselves for it and not the white folks..This campaign has been turned into a racial issue and thats too bad..Today we are faced with some of the most serious problems we could never have imagined..
Now lets address how you`ll treat the Clintons..It is very shameful to hear all the garbage and evil thots that you folks have..Bill and Hillary have never claimed to be perfect but you go all out to dig up old dirt hoping it would stick,Well it wont..The whole world knows abt their so called dirt so grow up and move on..Regarding Hillary its time all of you learnt to respect this woman..I am a family man with children and the garbage you clinton haters put out clearly shows how narrow minded and stupid all of you are..Hillary is a very intelligent woman and will do alot of good for our country and with Bill to advise her she will turn things around for the good..This great country desperately needs change and thats a woman president..All the Obama supporters care abt is how much dirt they can throw around..I guess you`ll really feel threatened by a smart and caring Hillary thats why you`ll trash so much..How do you folks look at your mothers,sisters,daughters and wives everyday when you`ll have so much hate and contemt for hillary..Wake up and take a peek in the real world b`cos talk is cheap and theres plenty of hot air in the Obama camp which will help heat your homes this winter..Rember if you don`t respect yourself and Hillary it reflects back to how your parents raised you..Strange how what goes around comes arouns

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Mike, Kewaskum, WI — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:14:00 GMT

To Former Dem, CA.
It's not so much that you're over reacting, it's more that you're making issues where there are none. Is it beyond the pale to believe that Hillary would go on the attack because she was "feeling down"? No, not at all, and moreso it has nothing to do with her gender. Your level of sensitivity to perceived slights does more to reinforce gender based stereotyping than anything Obama said.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Liz from NH — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:14:24 GMT

Obama's friend Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick won by a wide margin in November 2006 and continues to be one of the most sincere and eloquent politicians in America. I voted for him and I still like him very much. However, he has not been able to deliver on his campaign promises and Massachusetts is facing very serious budget problems. At the same time, Patrick has called for a lot of new spending in his proposed budget and state of the union address, claiming that with the closing of tax loopholes and the development of casinos in the state he can do it all. I'm concerned that while Patrick was able to rise on a message of hope he does not have the political know-how to accomplish his goals. Obama and Patrick are close friends, so watch the governor for strong clues as to how Obama might govern. For now, I feel much more confident that Hillary Clinton can deliver on her promises. She has served longer in the Senate, she's incredibly tough, and she can provide the leadership necessary for an economic revival similar to the one the US experienced under President Clinton in the 90s. Obama might do fine but if it takes him a lot longer to gear up and start governing, we might not be able to afford the delay. I want a President who can put together an effective Administration quickly and be savvy immediately on budgets and the games Washington plays. For me, Hillary's the one who can do the most good for the most people as President.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Rob H., Seabrook, NH — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:15:15 GMT

The question is this: Can Hillary Clinton decisively defeat John McCain and unite the country to bring about the changes needed to repair the damage wrought by the Shrub Presidency? Considering the number of people who have a reflexive hatred of the Clintons (including myself), I'd have to say: No.

If you look at time served in elected office, Mr. Obama has Hillary Clinton beat, hands down. He's served 12 years in the State and Federal offices, as well as serving as President of the Harvard Law Review. Mrs. Clinton has served eight years in the U.S. Senate. What other elected office has she held? I do not count her work as First Lady in this because it was not an elected position but one granted her due to her husband's political status. Yet she has "more experience" than Mr. Obama? Eight years of that was under the umbrella protection of her husband; she suffered from Republican slings and arrows, but the voters had no ability to reprimand her for her beliefs or policies due to her lack of elected status.

There are a number of conservatives who have stated they will not vote if McCain wins the Republican Primary (something that seems quite likely). There are likewise a large number of Independents and Democrats who will not vote for Hillary Clinton. Rather than crushing McCain and the Neocon branch of Republicans that have taken root, it will be a close battle which will hurt this country rather than eliminate a noxious brand of politics that believes in personal empowerment over public good.

I have my reservations about Mr. Obama. I don't know how good a leader he is, or would be. But I do not want to have the Clinton Royal Family taking charge for another four to eight years, followed by another Bush and then by Chelsea Clinton and then by another Bush ad nauseam. It's time for change. The Clintons do not embody change... but a return to the status quo.

Rob H.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Sil — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:15:17 GMT

How immoral to accuse Obama of plagiarism. The man has written two books, one just beat the Clinton's and won the award.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

JC Syracuse New York — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:15:50 GMT

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:16:43 GMT

Dear "Give me a break"...
No I'm not a 'schill' (there is no such word by the way) for the Hillary campaign.
Who are you a SHILL for?
One thing is for certain; Hillary's done a lot more for the people of N.Y., and the people of this country, than your sorry ass ever has.
By the way, what does "make bolder the terrorist" mean?
I have a suggestion for you, "Give Me a Break."
Get yourself a thesaurus and a dictionary, and go enroll in an elementary english composition class. (...or you could just wait for Hillary to take office. I'm sure her education initiative would benefit you greatly!)
Remember my friend, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT 2008!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Democrat till the end — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:17:32 GMT

I am glad that Obama supporters are finally cleaning their ears out and listening to what he is saying,but most importantly what he is NOT saying

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Cal, Atlanta, GA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:18:54 GMT

HILLARY IS NOT THE MOST QUALIFIED OR BEST CANDIDATE! The only thing she is qualified for is chief of staff. She can't even run an effective campaign. She has switched themes so many times it is a joke! She can't find one that sticks because she is phony. I'd much rather have someone who "Found their voice" prior to running for the most important job in the free world. More importantly, she made the wrong decision on the single most important foregin policy decision of this generation. I am a Dem and I will not vote for HRC in the general election.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Patrick, Boulder CO — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:19:56 GMT

You know, the ever-changing justifications for an HRC Presidency (experience, morphing policies, gender, etc) remind me of the ever-changing justifications for going to war in Iraq and then staying there - I don't buy or it trust it - the Clintons sound too much like George W Bush and we need to take our country back. Please join me in voting for Barack Obama!

If HRC would have read the National Intelligence Estimates, or heck, even the title of the Iraq War Resolution, she would/should have voted differently. Remember one thing, words may be cheap, but fear is expensive.

GO OBAMA in 2008!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Bob W Mendon, NY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:19:59 GMT

I saw Obama's remark not in sexist terms but as an observation of typical Clinton campaign behavior. When Hillary is behind, she or Bill or one of her operatives, instinctively goes negative. When referring to Hillary feeling down, Obama was speaking more about her campaign. However, if you choose to allege Obama is being sexist, I would ask your opinion of Bill's Jessie Jackson comment or the Clinton campaign's dismissal of defeats by pointing out black support-implying that Black Americans are incapable of making an informed decisions.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Lester, Boston, MA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:20:10 GMT

What do you mean that every time they try to stick something on Obama it turns out to be nothing? Have they really even investigated this guy, or just taken his book to be the definitive word about his past? What I'd like to know is whether he ever registered with Selective Service in 1980, when Jimmy Carter changed the law and said that any man born after January 1, 1960 had to register. I've heard NOTHING about this in the mainstream media. In time of war, shouldn't this be an issue? And if he didn't register then God help him in a campaign against John McCain!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:20:15 GMT

Well to date John & Liz, as Ohio may go (based on your apparent predictions) the majority of the country (majority of other States) that have already had their primaries and caucases are not going. Looks like Ohio, if they go for Hillary Clinton, may be left out in the cold by the rest of the country this time around. Even Texas is looking to go to Obama.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Sierra, SF — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:20:22 GMT

Dan, Ohio: '... I'd like to know who has better foresight,...'

Dan, Hillary voted FOR THE IRAQ WAR
Obama OPPOSED the IRAQ WAR
Hillary also voted for war against Iran (Kyl- Lieberman)

'...Every politician can shout change. Particularly against the Bush administration. We all want change. The question is who can truly deliver us out of this mess. ...'

Hillary is STILL taking 'dirty' campaign contributions
(see Norman Hsu, Peter Paul).
Skirting campaign laws ISN'T gonna get us change, is it ?
Hillary wants to break the rules to illegally seat Michigan and Florida delegates.
Hillary is taking massive campaign contributions from Insurance companies. Will THAT affect her health care plans ? Who do you think will benefit from her Health care plans if she's taking massive campaign contributions from Insurance companies nad Pharmaceutical companies ?
Remember 'pay to play' from the naughty noneties ?
Wanna go back to the future ?
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be

OBAMA/BIDEN '08

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Bob W Mendon, NY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:22:11 GMT

"(Note I have seen figures such as this "152 bills in year 1 in senate for Obama and 820 bills in legislature and 20 bills became law for Hillary but no figure on total bills" - more details needed)."

Read the Congressional Record. After all, it is public information.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Barbara C., Pompano Beach, FL — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:25:43 GMT

Whether you are an Obama Supporter or a Clinton Supporter, does anyone else feel fatigued from all this 50/50 stuff and poll numbers that are all over the place? I know the Press loves this, but I cannot wait until maybe we will all know something the day after Pennsylvania votes.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Joseph, WI — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:26:32 GMT

Listen to the Jimsumptershow.com today at 12:00 EST
Larry Sinclair will be interviewed by Jim Sumpter.
Folks it ain't gonna matter about the Rezco deal much once this Larry Sinclair thing gets into the media just a bit more. It has had 300,000 hits on youtube and it a very interesting story about Obama, sex and drugs.
I am a Realtor and I believe what happened on the Rezco deal is that yeah the Obama's got their house for $300,000 less than market, but Rezco's wife paid $300,000 more for the lot so guess what that equals a gift to Obama for $300,000 from Rezco. Both house and next door lot closed on the same day. Go figure!!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Sierra, SF — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:27:12 GMT

The REAL Hillary Clinton
Do you want 4 years of THIS ?

'...Hillary Clinton was arrogant and orally abusive to

her security detail...'

From the Washington Post.com/thefix:

For those who don't know... Capt. Denny Keast flies
for UAL and flew many SAM's (Special Air Mission's)
for the White House.

'...Hillary Clinton was arrogant and orally abusive to

her security detail. She forbade her daughter,
Chelsea, from exchanging pleasantries with them.
Sometimes Chelsea, miffed at her mother's obvious
conceit and mean spiritedness, ignored her demands and

exchanged pleasantries regardless, but never in her
mother's presence. Chelsea really was a nice,
kindhearted, and lovely young lady. The consensus of
opinion was that Chelsea loved her Mom but did not
like her. Hillary Clinton was continuously rude and
abrasive to those who were charged to protect her
life. Her security detail dutifully did their job, as
professionals should, but they all loathed her and
wanted to be on a different detail.

Hillary Clinton was despised by the Secret Service as
a whole. former President Bill Clinton was much more
amiable than his wife. Often the Secret Service would
cringe at the verbal attacks Hillary would use against

her husband. They were embarrassed for his sake by the

manner and frequency in which she verbally insulted
him, sometimes in the presence of the Secret Service,
and sometimes behind closed doors. Even behind closed
doors Hillary Clinton would scream and holler so
loudly that everyone could hear what she was saying.
Many felt sorry for President Clinton and most
wondered why he tolerated it instead of just divorcing

his 'attack dog' wife. It was crystal clear that the
Clintons neither liked nor respected each other and
this was true long before the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

Theirs was genuinely a 'marriage of convenience.'

Chelsea was much closer to her father than her mother,

even after the Lewinsky scandal, which hurt her
gravely. Bill Clinton did in fact have charisma, and
occasionally would smile at or shake hands with his
security detail. Still, he always displayed an obvious

air of superiority towards them.

His security detail uniformly believed him to be
disingenuous, false, and that he did nothing without a

motive that in some way would enhance his image and
political career. He was polite, but not kind. They
did not particularly like him and nobody trusted him.

Al Gore was the male version of Hillary Clinton. They
were friendlier toward each other than either of them
were towards former President Clinton. They were not
intimate, so please don't read that in. They were very

close in a political way. Tipper Gore was generally
nice and pleasant. She initially liked Hillary but
soon after the election she had her 'pegged' and no
longer liked her or associated with her except for
events that were politically obligatory.

Al Gore was far more left wing than Bill Clinton. Al
Gore resented Bill Clinton and thought he was too
'cent rist.' He despised all Republicans. His hatred
was bitter and this was long before he announced for
the Presidency. This hatred was something that he and
Hillary had in common. They often said as much, even
in the presence of their security detail. Neither of
them trusted Bill Clinton and, the Secret Service
opined, neither of them even liked him. Bill Clinton
did have some good qualities, whereas Al Gore and
Hillary had none, in the view of their security
details.

Al Gore, like Hillary, was very rude and arrogant
toward his security detail. He was extremely
unappreciative and would not hesitate to scold them in

the presence of their peers for minor details over
which they had no control. Al Gore also looked down on

them, as they finally observed and learned with
certainty on one occasion. Al got angry at his
offspring and pointed at his security detail and said,

'Do you want to grow up and be like them?' Word of
this insult by the former V ice-President quickly
spread and he became as disliked by the Secret Service

as Hillary. Most of them prayed Al Gore would not be
elected President, and they really did have private
celebrations in a few of their homes after President
Bush won. This was not necessarily to celebrate
President Bush's election, but to celebrate Al Gore's
defeat...'

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

SICK OF MSNBC — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:29:04 GMT

The "BOYS CLUB" at MSNBC really annoy me. Obama's plifering of someone's else's words, WHETHER OR NOT he's a friend, is still stealing and shows the inability to come up with original thoughts. From the "CHANGE" candidate, isn't this reaching back to the past. Stop drinking the "Kool Aide"!!! I'm sure you won't post this, it's negative for your candidate.

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Patrick, Detroit MI — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:29:41 GMT

I can't believe that someone is accusing Obama of speech stealing/ plagiarism. Does anyone realize that the "change" slogan was Obama's before Clinton and McCain? He was inspiring hope and change from the beginning. I don't think this can be won spinning this issue or another if anything I see voters responding to the media's perception moreso. When Obama's praise was highest that's when he lost New Hampshire. As long as the press declares someone inevitable there's always a backlash in the voting booths. Americans don't like to be told what to do.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Gregory Peek, Birmingham, Alabama — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:33:57 GMT

It is sad to see the Clintons destroy their positive legacy with their negative campaign. The Clintons need to end their slash and burn rampage, even if only to save their own good names. I can remember how good if felt when Clinton won the 1992 election and became president after 12 years of Reagan and Bush. I fondly remember his accomplishments in office. Now I can look forward to remembering how, in 2008, Clinton destroyed the Democratic Party right when America needed it most.

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Larry M — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:35:19 GMT

guys, please clean up the sentences on this post (the Wisconsin test case). it's atrocious.

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Norm, Gainesville, FL — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:36:45 GMT

We now have three sitting U.S. Senators contending for the presidency. How are they conducting their Senate duties while they campaign? One does a lot more than the other two to attend Senate hearings and vote on issues. McCain has reportedly missed 57% of the votes in the last year; Freshman Obama has missed 44% and the one who seems to be doing her job, Hillary only missed 28%. According to one source, one of the reasons for so many missed votes by some candidates is that missed votes were on divisive issues and they might not want to be on the wrong side. This item may not be posted as it contains facts and that is not a strong point for First Read.

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iowan — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:36:55 GMT

Former Dem--

The 'ups and downs' related to which candidate was 'up' and which was 'down' and Obama noted what Mrs.Clinton did when she was 'down' on the electoral end of things. Watch the speech, then comment intelligently, if you can.

Wisconsin: Please help get this election over with; time to help Obama focus on the incredible mess created by McCain-endorsed Bush practices and policies of the last 7 years. If they are 'fixed' in eight years, it will be miraculous.

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Ken Estling — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:39:06 GMT

There were more deaths today in Iraq. Clinton voted to authorize force without reading the NIE? Why does CNN give her a free pass on this?

Jimmy and Johnny and Sara joined the military because NAFTA took all the good jobs overseas. Why does CNN give Clinton a free pass on this?

Clinton sat on the board of anti-union Wal-Mart? Why does CNN give her a free pass on this?

Clinton did nothing as Ricky Ray Rector and Lani got sacked. Why does CNN give her a pass on this?

Why does CNN have people from inside the Clinton Media Shop appear on their segments? What happened to investigative journalism?

Why does CNN not have the right pledged delegate totals?

Why does CNN not point out that Obama has won unionized households?

Why does CNN not point out that Obama has won more primaries than Clinton?

Why does CNN shill for Hillary Clinton?

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Deb,North Brunswick, NJ — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:41:01 GMT

I also took offense to Sen. Obama's comment that Clinton was feeling down. He was trying to make the impression of taking the high road and not responding in a negative way but I took it as condescending.

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Akilah Stewart, Seattle, WA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:41:34 GMT

I resent the implication that a vote against Sen. Clinton is a vote against feminism. I appreciate all of the people who fought, particularly in the ;60s of last century, for a country that makes decisions on merit, and includes everyone in the halls of leadership. The truly wonderful thing about this nomination process is that for the first time in my life, I have a real choice between two candidates for progressive change. The reason that I caucused for Sen. Obama on February 9 is not that I'm of African descent, but because I am a woman and I want our troops home. The reason that I cast my absentee ballot for Sen. Obama before Washington state's primary is that in my 21st century, I want to elect politicians that can build coalitions to solve the problems humanity faces today, not only debate the policy failures of the past. I appreciate Sen. Clinton's past service to the country, and I hope that when Barack Obama becomes president, that she will continue to use her power and influence to aid in passing the legislation needed to change the direction of this country.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Dave Zuckerman — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:48:18 GMT

Seems to me that Barack Obama has about the same amount of time in elected office as Hillary Clinton. He was in the Illinois legislature before winning a senate seat. She has been in the senate about the same amount of time he's been in elected office.

Other than being married to a former President and governor, about exactly what experience is Clinton boasting?

If she means her time as a lawyer, Obama has that, too.

I see them as fairly equivalent when it comes to experience.

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Jane Dawn — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:49:24 GMT

I think one of the problem with this country is that we have too many freak show women like "sick and tired". She makes us women look psychotic. I don't know what nuclear blast created this mutant women, but I don't really consider them fully women, or in some cases, fully human.

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curious — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:49:35 GMT

Lisa in MN: You say "in your heart" you know that Obama will "include us". No problem with that but has he said "how" he will include us? I did hear him say something about showing things on C-span but that to me is not being included in decision-making.

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Carlene and Joseph — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:49:57 GMT

YES HILLARY WILL!

She's the best candidate running. We will vote for her in Madison tomorrow, with enthusiasm.

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Clintons be gone please! — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:50:23 GMT

Hillary Clinton is a sore loser who hasn't even completely lost yet. She lacks class, integrity, and tact. If she wins the nomination, this will be one Presidential Election where I happily give up my civil right to vote. I wouldn't waste my time or gas voting for her or any McCain, who should be home enjoying retirement activities. Give me a break. The best and ONLY candidate is Barack Obama!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

ComputerGeek — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:50:30 GMT

How amazing is it that I keep reading that Obama is 'full of hot air'! When he first began campaigning he was labeled 'wonkish' because of all the detail he wanted to go into over his policies. That isn't what people wanted, they wanted to be inspired. Now that he has changed his message and gone the other way, people attack him for the opposite. People haven't even done the least amount of research into the truth and yet they get on this and other websites and espouse what they believe or have heard without even checking the validity of their assertions. Is it no wonder we have had 8 years of Bush? When will you people leave the hearsay, distortions, and outright lies behind and actually read and understand something. It is no wonder the rest of the world looks at this country with disdain and disbelief. If half of you were to do your homework and actually read the facts before you espouse your supposed 'wisdom' it would make for a much better and enlightened conversation about reality. But then life would not be as much 'fun' would it? The petty bickering is much more enjoyable than a rational discussion of truth and policy...

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Speak Truthfully, Cincinnati, Ohio — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:50:43 GMT

John & Liz
Sorry folks.... Hillary is not the "smart" vote at this point... She has shown some major flaws:
1. If you can't manage the budget of your campaign, then you can't manage the country's.
2. If you only plan until "Super Tuesday", with no contingency should you not wrap it up, you cannot plan the future of a nation.
3. If you plan a rally in a must win state (OH) in a Skyline Chili Parlor, and only 200 of your 'closest friends' are invited to attend, when your competition is holding a 2300 person rally open to the public on the same day, in the same town, you only want to speak to those decided on your candidacy. You need those who are not...poor decision making. Plus, it is flat out embarrassing to have 10x the people showing up for your competition. Heck, he had 4x as many as that at his organizing meeting.
4. You are following your competition to every venue, as soon as your team learns he is having an event. Followers generally don't make good leaders.
5. You have stated that only big states like California, Ohio, Florida, New York, Texas, and Pennsylvania matter. That's @ 215 electoral votes in the general...Not enough to win the presidency, and offensive to the other states. Good luck running against a republican that draws indies.
6. John Kerry went for a "big states" strategy in 04...and LOST!!
7. Attacks on Hillary ARE LEGITIMATE. How can a 'liberal' say that a 'liberal' media is attacking its own?
8. What nonsense is promoting Obama because they want McCain? Hillary will catch way more difficulty beating McCain than Obama because the repub base will wake up and back him hot and heavy against Hillary along with indies who can't stand her.

Vote your mind..it is your right, but your syllogism is faulty.

Obama 08

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Democrat till the end — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:51:06 GMT

I am glad that Obama supporters are finally cleaning their ears out and listening to what he is saying,but most importantly what he is NOT saying

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Phil, Oak Park, IL — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:51:26 GMT

I have been watching the blogs for weeks now and researching each candidate to try to verify claims both pro and con. What I have discovered is that all three candidates are flawed.

Hillary talks about solutions though I can find no evidence from her background and history that she would be any more effective than Obama.

Both the Democrat's policies and programs are very similar and in both cases I ask how they intend to pay for them. Barack at least claims that the proceeds for ending the war will be used for this but I remained concerned that either Hillary or Barack will be able to get us out of Iraq as smoothly as they claim. George has got us into a terrible mess there and endless resources are being squandered when we have mighty needs at home but I remain concerned that pulling that plug abruptly may be just as costly as not pulling the plug. (On a side note, I will never forgive old George for leading us there).

John concerns me as well in that philosophically, I just disagree with him though I do agree that if we are going to cut taxes, we should be cutting spending (another thing George never comprehended).

What makes me concerned most of all is how the electorate, with ever growing resources to obtain information, so completely buy into what ever rumor, distortion, claim (negative or positive) becomes absolute and that they will accept half truths as a defense for which ever candidate they are supporting and then turn and claim all others are stupid, naive, fool hearty or what ever for not agreeing with them.

I am an Obama supporter in large part because of his speeches and his ability to inspire. I see many flaws in his candidacy but still choose to support him because I believe a true leader should inspire those he chooses to lead to take action. I also choose to follow him because he does inspire me to take action in a positive and constructive way. It has been a long time since I have seen that on the political front and so I do hope and I do believe.

The beauty of our country is that we can disagree and vigorously disagree at that. It is my hope that while we disagree, we can appreciate and respect those who disagree with us, that we can use the information all around us to disagree based on solid information and that each of us become involved in the process because we have a lively debate while still respecting our neighbors.

Take the time to vote.

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Jane Dawn — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:51:28 GMT

What credentials does Hillary have? Would she have been elected to NY without her husband? Would she even be considered a candidate without her husband? What an irony, that the would be first woman president rode the tails of her philandering partner/husband. What a joke!

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Desiree, New York — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:51:30 GMT

I guess Obama isn't as original as we thought. You would think with all the speech writers he has he could have come up with something to call his own. Sounds like a typical politician to me.

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jodi from jerzee — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:51:59 GMT

A woman President America can take - Hillary Clinton - nobody can take! Surely there has to be another woman out there that can represent us better than this! This chick has got to go!!!!

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Jim Curry, Woodridge, IL — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:52:42 GMT

Good point Sean. You said, "If a woman with Obama's credentials were running for president, the press would laugh her off the stage." As I recall, Carol Mosely Braun was an Illinois senator once, who also ran for president. How does Obama differ from her? The only real difference, I think, is his charisma and speaking ability. Beauty is only skin deep after all.

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jerry/corpus christi texas — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:52:54 GMT

Truer words were never spoken. The media has been extremely unfair to Hillary, while giving Obama a pass on everything.
J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Monday, February 18, 2008 10:15 AM)

After spending a few minutes laughing about this post, one would have to wonder how tough The Clinton's really are. From hitting Obama supporters to digging up pre-school records of Obama himself, one would have to question the sort of people The Clinton's have on their team. Then, when it backfires on them, and they start crying like a bunch of little girls, people like Merle come out with such stipid remarks as the one's posted above.

No wonder America is not ready for The Clinton's....

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Sally, Europe — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:54:39 GMT

Watching the race attentively from abroad, it appears as though another election year is turning into another circus show.

Yes, campaigns are about words.
Yes, all campaigns have speechwriters
Yes, all candidates have a few skeletons

I concur with a few posters here, what the people (both in the US and in the world) are looking for is a demonstrated dedication to principals and consistency. If one passes 100 bills that have little impact versus one who passes 1 bill that ends poverty, then the electorate should vote for the latter candidate.

Sadly, we have not heard much substance in the media on actions, only on childish issues that are entertaining for the weak minded.

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Stephanie, Wilmington, DE — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:57:57 GMT

I am disturbed by this constant bickering back and forth about Hilary vs. Obama. Yes, the candidates have differences, but they are both strong candidates for the Democratic party. It is such a shame that we have to choose between them for a nomination. The way I look at it, they are both better choices for president than any of the Republicans. Whoever wins the democratic nomination wins my support and my vote.
Two things I would throw out there for consideration are these:
Remember that young voters(college students) are attracted to whatever is new and exciting and trendy, i.e. Obama. However, as with John Kerry in the last election, you can't depend on young voters to carry you into the White House. They notoriously don't come out for the election. Kerry thought he was the candidate for change too and depended heavily on young voters and look what that got him.
( I am not comparing Kerry vs. Obama).
The second thing is that the middle and working classes will be the people to elect the next president, and they are concerned with bread and butter issues. Obama is attracting primarily young voters and intellectuals.
Don't get me wrong, I thought Obama was destined to be president the first time I saw him speak at the Democratic Convention. At that time all I could think of was "WOW". I was so inspired by that speech that I printed it off the internet and kept it to read over and over. The man is definitely an inspiration and a tremendous speaker.I am still awed by him.
But I am being practical here - I really like Hillary too and I think the people will vote for her over any republican too. She is older and wiser than Obama and I think her time is NOW. Obama is young and inexperienced and I think his time is after Hillary's. He will still be inspiring and wonderful after 8 years of Hillary. And he will gain experience during that time. Then we (democrats) can lock up the presidency for 8 years more with Obama. It sounds like a Win, Win solution to me.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

H R Coursen — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:59:01 GMT

Senator Clinton voted for the resolution that permitted Bush to go to war in Iraq. She now claims that the White House told her that "use of force" meant forceful diplomacy. She either a) voted for purely political reasons or b) was naively taken in by the White House. Why does this matter? The war she supported is bankrupting us, killing our over-deployed soldiers or sending them home in psychological tatters, destroying Iraq, and undermining our moral position in the rest of the world. She made a huge mistake. Ready on day one? No -- as Senator Obama says, Right on day one. I don't think anyone realizes how many of us -- even ex-military types like me -- hate the invasion/occupation that Hillary helped facilitate.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Houston — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:59:12 GMT

[[ Obama probably escapes major criticism over this unless there's another instance that doesn't involve Patrick. ]]

So nice of you to let Obama off the hook for reusing a few lines from past speeches like every other politician whoever lived has done. Now, when are you going to go after McCain for flip-flopping from anti-torture to the present pro-torture position he's taken in order to pander to the neo-fascist wing of the Pub party?

McCain seems to have gotten a pass for this from the media just as he's gotten for flip-flopping on tax cuts for the rich and his luidicrous comment he made that he wouldn't vote for the McCaink-Kennedy immigration bill in order to pander to the nativists and xenophobes of the GOP base. McCain almost makes Romney look like a man of princple in comparison.

But I guess it's understandable that the media would back this war monger. He backed the same disastrous war that the media shilled for, and they want to keep papering over the mess they helped create in Iraq as long as they can. McCain is the man to do it, even if it takes a hundred years of denial.

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Lauren — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:59:18 GMT

SHE CAN AND SHE WILL! Need I say more....closing the gap people, closing the gap....

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

David, San Diego, CA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:59:28 GMT

I could care less about who is borrowing from whom. The fact of the matter is that Hillary is pissed off. Why, because she predicted that this primary would not last past Super Tuesday. Well, not only is that not the case, but she is behind. Face it, Hillary Clinton has ran an incompetent campaign. No money after February 5th, no strategy for the caucas states, alienation of most states; complaining about Florida and Michigan not getting seated, when she was the FIRST candidate to agree to adhere to the rules imposed by the DNC. She's laughable. And now she talks about words are cheap. I thought your husband still believed in a place called HOPE!

To paraphrase Bill Maher, she wrote the book, "It Takes a Village to Raise a Child", well it looks like that village is voting for Barack Obama.

I won't discount her, but damn, she really needs to get it together.

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Mike Davis, St. Paul, MN — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:00:24 GMT

Using another person's good ideas in the political arena is NOT plagiarizing. We are not talking about academic research where originality is prized. Political leaders need to try whatever works, no matter who came up with the idea. In fact, that's what has been lacking for the past seven years. If only G.W. Bush had been willing to use someone else's good ideas . . . & it wouldn't have mattered to me whether he cited sources or not. And on the question of experience vs. change. Did it ever occur to anyone in the HRC campaign that some of our greatest presidents had little to no executive experience? (e.g., Lincoln, T. Roosevelt, Truman), while some of the most experienced executives were dismal failures? (e.g., Hoover, Nixon, the present Bush)

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

David, Boulder Creek, CA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:01:48 GMT

As not what your country can do for you...... JFK stole that line from Cicero. So I guess he should have been ashamed. The both have plans and they are very similar except Hillary wants to force you to do something and Obama does not. Otherwise they are virtually the same. So, Hillary has to go negative and bring up personal attacks. Debate 101--if you have nothing them go personal. I would rather vote for something other than against something. Go Obama!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

sick and tired — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:02:07 GMT

The reason why Hillary was "gang raped" is because she is highly intelligent and successful, and proved herself to be the best candidate. The "boys" had to put her in her place, like a good obeying female should be. I am thoroughly disgusted with how all this went down. It would serve the democratic party right, to go down the tubes for this misjustice.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Georgia Heistad White Lake, Wis. — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:02:41 GMT

MSNBC has always been my favorite news channel but no any more. I am so sick of all of you attacking Hillary and embracing Obama that it's just sickening.
Even FOX is more fair.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Doug, Montreal, QC — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:04:05 GMT

John & Liz,

Are you not aware that according to every major national poll, Clinton would lose to McCain while Obama would win. Of course, the meaning of these polls is not certain, but how can you assert that Clinton is the best chance to win in November? More telling, Clinton has the lowest like-to-dislike ratio (with more dislike than like), while Obama and McCain are significantly higher, Obama higher than McCain. More troubling for a Clinton win, these attitudes are quite fixed for Clinton. For more details, check out realclearpolitics.com, for example.

Also worth considering, I have heard Republican advisors and pundits (e.g. on the Diane Rehm show) saying that the only chance they have of winning in November is if there's a protracted and dirty Democratic nomination battle (Clinton is seeing to that) with a Clinton win, which would keep many Democrats from the polls, swing independents to McCain, and galvenize Republicans to show up and vote despite their low morale.

Please be realistic. If Clinton cared about the Democratic party and the future of the US (and the rest of the world), she would play clean and drop out if it became clear she could not win the most elected delegates (not superdelagates). Is this what she's doing?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Mississippi — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:04:44 GMT

WISCONSIN PLEASE MAKE HILLARY THE COMEBACK KID TOMORROW. WE NEED AN OBAMA UPSET TOMORROW!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Yoli, New Brunswick, NJ — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:05:09 GMT

Interesting, I guess Hillary is right. Obama has no ideas, he must "borrow" them from others. My question is "what makes him tick." Why does he really want to be President. If Hillary does not win the nomination I and many others will vote for John McCain. I am not comfortable with the Obama.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Taaj — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:05:39 GMT

Do we want a President that can string more than 3 words together? After Bush, we sorely needs someone who uses the English language in a productive, positive and effective way.
Do we want a President that can inspire the global community and help them unlearn that Americans are not uneducated fools, who reads children literature unside down.
Do we want a President that says "we" and "us" and
actually means it?
Do we want a President that is intelligent and understands that great leaders are not dogmatic, are not afraid to access the minds and skills of others?
Do we want a President that won't be distracted from healing our nation, distracted because of family moral problems, political hatred, and uncontrollable personal embarrassment to self and child.

As a woman, I wished we had the 'right' woman for the job at this pivotal time in American History. But we don't, if we are gender fair, just as we've required male Presidents to have appropriate spouses to support them doing their job, we should ask no less of a female President. And I can't forget that Hillary's spouse was once the President of the United States and looked at all of us and lied. I WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT WILL BRING ANY REMINDERS OF WHAT OUR NATION HAVE GONE THROUGH UNDER THE CONSTANT AND DESTRUCTIVE LIES OF THE BUSH DYNASTY. ANOTHER DYNASTY IS NOT THE ANSWER FOR AMERICA. THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHAT PARTY YOU BELONG TO,IF YOU LIVE IN A RED OR BLUE STATE OR MALE/FEMALE. BUT EACH OF US NEED TO ASK THE QUESTION, DO WE REALLY WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT!

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Jack Lewis, Chicago, IL — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:05:41 GMT

Everybody calm down. For the first time in my voting lifetime every state and territory in this country has the opportunity to have input as to who will be the Democratic nominee.

I voted for Hillary Clinton for senator when I lived in New York. I support Barack Obama now, but I will vote for Clinton if she gets the nomination. I will do it for this reason; Obama and I agree that government works best when we all put aside our personal differences and work for the common good. I don't like Hillary Clinton but I prefer her objectives to a Republican candidate who doesn't miss an opportunity to imply or outright state that I am a coward because I want our troops out of Iraq so that we can focus our efforts against terrorism in a far more productive manner.

I expect those of you who support Clinton to behave in the same manner should Obama get the nomination.

If we can just, for once, show some patience and maturity in this process we might actually get a president this whole country has agreed upon rather than one the first ten states who have primaries pick for us.

Grow up, Democrats!

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Felix, Littleton CO — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:06:25 GMT

Chill, sick and tired. "Gang rape" of Hillary? Please! Nothing out of Obama's camp directed toward that very tough lady has even approached the nastiness of the Clinton campaign under the direction of Rove clone Penn.

Just because a person doesn't like a particular woman candidate or a particular black candidate for that matter, doesn't mean they aren't ready for women or African Americans.

The irony is the plethora of better qualified women who were NEVER seriously considered for one reason and one reason only: They weren't married to Bill Clinton.

If you are looking for a villain who has exposed Hillary Clinton to public ridicule for decades, you need look no further than selfish, reckless, bimbo-happy Bill.

If the right can't beat Hillary Clinton, who they prefer as a great little Republican party uniter, you can bet they'rather have 4 more years of Bill giving them plenty of opportunity to interfere with her agenda, as they did with Bill's, by looking for every opportunity to distract by stirring up scandal. That will be much better for them than an Obama presidency, their worst case scenario. And we can count on Bill not to be able to help himself from helping them.

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DTM, Chevy Chase MD — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:06:27 GMT

This is an issue of integrity. If Obama doesn't have the integrity to admit that he borrowed speeches from other politicians, then his whole appeal as a "page turner" is completely undermined.

We know that Hillary is not perfect, but she has worked hard for the American people and will be able to deliver in the White House. Frankly, I think she will be one of the greatest American presidents, ever.

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Delighted Independent, Washington, DC — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:07:04 GMT

In this polarized debate, I think we are missing the huge fact that history has already been made. A woman and a non-white are competing for the Democratic nomination. That little barrier has crashed and burned. It's been done, folks.

For the first time in a long while we have two fantastic candidates to choose from. It's a choice between great and awesome. Be truthful: If Clinton wasn't on the scene, wouldn't you have been fully behind Obama? Likewise, if Obama hadn't been on the scene wouldn't you have been fully behind Clinton?

I heard Hillary speak on Feb 5th. I was delighted and inspired. Then I heard Obama speak, and I was blown away. Reveling in the joy of abundance, I came down happily behind Obama. Have to agree with "jaycee" above - especially today, the President's ability to bring people together is going to count like never before.

I also like the way Obama frames issues as "AND"s (poverty AND genocide, for example) - in a world rapidly interconnecting economically and cross-culturally, its no longer a situation of "either-or", "us against them" or "my way or the highway"; it IS a question of honoring competing needs and finding solutions that work for all sides. We have the resources to do it, what we lack is the Will and the Grace.

As a first generation American, I have been struck by how deeply "WINNING" is embedded in the American psyche. I love the energy behind the engagement. However the focus on the result (“win”) rather than the process (“engage passionately”) is fast becoming the root of our ineffectiveness in a world increasingly dominated by “AND”-type issues. The metaphor of "fight" (which suggests polarization and win-lose) is fast becoming outmoded. "Competing fully, openly and respectfully" (which holds open the possibility of "AND"s and win-win) has become the need of this new era. True for this election; true as we engage domestically and internationally as we go forward.

In the early stages of this competition I have been delighted by the relative lack of negative attacks; through our voting and influence let's hold our politicians to the issues and away from personal attacks.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

GP in Cleveland — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:08:28 GMT

It would seem that what many of these Clinton supporters don't get, is that the Clintons were elemental in the much of the divisive politics over the last 15 years. They play the game as "take no prisoners." Anger and negativity have been a huge part of their back story as well as their headlines. Obama supporters are by and large tired of these types of politics. Obama is channeling Kennedy and Reagan...both of whom tried to focus on the union as a whole and the future as a positive place we can all shape. I never hear the anger from Obama supporters that I do from Clintons...."gang rape" give me a break...she's tough (so she continually reminds us), so it's interesting that her supporters would try to use the equivalent of the "racial lynching" in their rhetoric....Frankly I think it's time for the Bushies AND the Clintons to go home...the more negative the Clinton's become, the more likely I'll stay home on elections day if she IS the nominee...

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

D.R.L. Chicago, Illinois — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:09:54 GMT

I think that to say people are not voting based off personality is to live in a "fairy tale". Black Americans are voting for Obama based off race and nothing else. As a black female, I've asked everyone I come accross in my community who they're voting for and why, and surprise the answer is always the same, because he's black. They have no idea what his policies are; they have no idea what his senete record is; they even say he didn't vote for the war, not realizing that he wasn't even in the senete at the time to have a vote. They say he's making history. They forget that Hillary is making history as well. I'd be honord to have a black man in the white house, but I am sick of being treated as if my thoughts and opinions don't matter because I'm a woman. I have it better than my mother but I want my daughter to have it better than me. If a woman is smart, strong(even polorizing), connected and vetted, then I trust that she can get things done. Hillary has my vote. Hillaryfor president. Clinton

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Concerned, Pasadena, CA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:10:22 GMT

Please those of my sex stop acting like the sky has fallen because Senator Obama tried to stay decent when commenting on another candidate's attacks on him. I am beginning to think many of you simply do not like any response to Senator Clinton's attacks. I suppose Senator Obama is just supposed to roll-over and take it. Please stop this silliness-- there was nothing sexist about it.

I also might add by pointing out all your problems with Senator Obama's comments, you have done more to advance a "sexist" undertone than anything done by Senator Obama. Before some women began complaining about the comment, most men had not seen the connection between someone feeling bad and what you suggest. After all, even men feel bad -- I believe it is an equal opportunity sentiment.

Please note: I will not spell out the connection b/c even though I am a supporter of Senator Obama, I do not feel like undermining a woman candidate over something that all women know is not a "real" issue. By the way, anyone reading this -- there is NO real issue here. There is nothing here that has anything to do with how either candidate would handle the Presidency. Indeed, there is nothing here that has any relevance to anything.

Please get over yourselves. When these connections are made, the supporters of Senator Clinton cause her (and other women) more harm than Senator Obama ever could. Try and remember this before writing.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

VoiceofReason, CA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:11:15 GMT

I can't stress this enough:

Hillary as the nominee = a McCain White House.

Why? She simply will not get the Indpendent and Swing votes in November's GENERAL Election. She carries too much baggage NATIONALLY to get the majority and beat McCain. Fair or not.

And, Hillary's campaign's low tactics of injecting race and gender into the campaign has inflamed her supporters into calling Obama sexist, which is crazy.

I am a 45 year old woman. I respect Hillary. Heck, she spoke at my commencement. However, I equally respect Obama -- and it is MOST IMPORTANT that the DEMOCRATS WIN THE WHITE HOUSE. That is the priority.

We Dems cannot win in November with a divided party (thanks to all this hot-headed racist/sexist stuff) or with a candidate who polarizes the general electorate the way Hillary unfortunately does.

Think November strategy. Vote Obama. Only he can beat McCain -- and the Republicans know it.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Soba — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:12:48 GMT

If a woman with Obama's credentials were running for president, the press would laugh her off the stage.
Sean (Sent Monday, February 18, 2008 9:59 AM)

I think there is one with less experience running for president. Obama has been an elected official than she has (state senate..US senate). Being first lady doesnt count as 'experience'. Its like a doctor's wife saying she has the experience to perform surgery. That would make a good Holiday Inn commercial..."I am not qualfied to be a president...but I did play one in the 90's while first lady). The 'ready from day 1" is crap.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

BushWasChangeAgentToo — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:13:22 GMT

Bush had slogan "Change" and won election over Al Gore. It was American who elected him. So what we got?
People, think simple:
1/9/2001 One American Dollar = 1.51 Canadian Dollar
2/9/2008 One American Dollar= 0.99 Canadian Dollar
Makeup Your Own Minds!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

John — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:14:14 GMT

Can supporters of HRC please support their candidate in a way that doesn't bash Obama. That's the problem with Hilary Clinton's campaign, she can't clearly articulate to a majority of democratic voters why we should vote for her. Her strategy is to tell us why we shouldn't vote for the other candidate. Hasn't the Clinton camp and supporters figured that if she wins the nomination by bashing Obama as the "false hope" candidate she risks demoralizing a large part of the democratic base come November. I plan to vote democrat in November, regardless of who the candidate is, yet I think a lot of young Obama supporters could be turned off by the Clinton strategy to derail the "hope candidate".

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Doug , Portland, Maine — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:16:52 GMT

Enough Already! Do you people have a clue. This process is totally flawed. This political system is totally corrupt. Unless there is true campaign finance reform - we the people - have no chance for a better future. K Street in Washinton D.C. runs the show with their corporate and elists backers. America has been and will be "for sale" to the highest bidder. Real Americans know this to be fact and look forward to the next American Revolution!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Deb — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:18:17 GMT

Obama is an arogant man. In Patrick's speech he said. I am NOT, MLK, I am NOT JFK, but in Obama's version he didn't say that, he said. MLK, JFK...not just words, which to me is Obama comparing himself to these men. But he is not these great leaders. MLK and JFK had a LIFETIME of accomplishments AND were great speakers. Even from there education. JFK: International Affairs, MLK: Sociology, Divinity and Philosophy. Obama: Ivy league lawyer. There is no signicant history of Obama until he was a lawyer and persued politics. Obama does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as these other leaders because if he was 10-20 years older with his history, people would be stamping a big fat L for loser on his head, good speaker or not. He has the younger vote and his generalised campaign has allowed people to put whatever they want into this man for there own problems. Plagerism. I think there are more things to worry about Obama than that and if it was Hillary? It would be front page news.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Enough Already, NY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:19:39 GMT

I seem to remember that Hillary Clinton went before the press after New Hampshire and Nevada (contests she won) and said that she thought, that because of perceived agressive comments that Senator Obama made, that he was feeling "frustrated". In other words, he went on the attack. Now, if Senator Clinton can make a comment like that and get a pass - what's wrong with Senator Obama saying it? It sounds like you're trying to make something out of nothing. AGAIN! As a woman I am neither offended or disgusted by what he said. He said that when she is down - she goes on the attack. Just like a lot of other politicians do!! That is what she is isn't it? What is so wrong with that? This is politics people! Grow up for crying out loud!!! Stop trying to make this about Hillary Clinton getting picked on. It is getting really discouraging that it seems everyone has to tiptoe around her - but she and her surrogates aren't held to the same standard!

ENOUGH!!!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Barb Heiam-Bjornsen — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:25:17 GMT

I'm tuned into MSNBC on the internet/tv most of the day, even at work!:-)You guys are doing a great job reporting on this exciting campaign trail, which was hard to predict until recently. I watched Obama's Madison, WI speech a few more times on your site here and he really touches on all of our buttons as a nation that so sorely need attention. You're right when you call it a movement. (In Obama's defense and for the betterment of his campaign, I would stay away from any comments on the 'Messiah' thing that is being passed around at this time).
*Just a note: I know today's a holiday, but some of the commentary is hard to read with grammatical errors. Someone needs to edit the articles before submission.
"..... in a state where’s campaigned only since Saturday. Clearly, the Clinton campaign is using Wisconsin is being used as something of a test case of how effective negative attacks on Obama can be."

Thanks again for all your hard work and commentary.

Barb Heiam-Bjornsen, writer
Incline Village, Nevada
Lake Tahoe

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

John — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:27:03 GMT

Why am I starting to hear from Clinton supporters that the republicans plan is to bash Clinton in the media so that Obama wins and he gets crushed by John McCain and the republican machine come November. It's almost as if HRC supporters are shocked that she could be so divisive a candidate, that the republicans feel the only chance they have to win is tf HRC is on the democratic ticket. Explain to me what's more likely, that republicans truly feel Obama is the tougher general election candidate and are simply stating their opinion, or that there's a republican media conspiracy to fool us simple, naive, democratic voters into voting for the one candidate that McCain can beat by bashing Hilary Clinton.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Mary, Illinois — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:27:22 GMT

I am tired of the coronation of Obama. I am an educated woman over 50. I believe that Hillary is the solution to the the problems that Bush has created. Obama made the comment that he would get her voters but she wouldn't get his. That sounded a bit like a threat. Hillary has pointed out that no matter who the nominee is, the democrats will be united. I believe she will do whatever is necessary for the greater good. I am not so sure Obama will.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

TJB, Scottsdale — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:27:33 GMT

Jon & Liz.....

Obviously you fit Clinton's demographics perfectly, that of being "less educated".

For God's Sake, you think the press is being unfair...LOL.... No one, again, on one,...has bashed the Clinton's as they could and should be bashed. A case in point, Peggy Noonan, the Wall Street Journal editorialist, wrote, it's interesting that none of the Democratic Candidates have commented, or taken Hillary to task, on the Clinton's "Cavalcade of Scandal's", but, if she somehow wins the nomination, the republicans will rip her to shreds with her past.... To that end, it might just be beginning, for on The Charlie Rose Show last week, they had a group of Democratic & Republican strategists, and one of the group talked about the specter of Hillary running against John McCain (BTW, in such a match up they all gave the edge to McCain)..."Can you imagine, a true American War Hero running against a person whose spouse was a draft dodger"....aside from being disbarred, impeached, a serial woman abuser, Hillary was the first, First Lady ever to be subpoenaed by a Grand Jury, Travelgate, Filegate, Pardongate...and it goes on and on...Or, as another on this post put it, we're not worried about Hillary on Day, but, Bill on Day two...they not only reek of the past, but make people shudder at the future.

This is not hyperbole, it’s just fact, the Clinton's are the two most polarizing figures in today's political world, period and rightfully so...it's because of their despicable actions...and they continue to prove it, only to be supported by people that lack the intellect to understand what Cretans they are......

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Dee, Falls Village CT — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:27:46 GMT

I don't see gender, I don't see race. I see a smart candidate with well thought out ideas and plans ---- and I see an inspirational speaker. I'll take the smart one.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Catpurrson, Spokane, WA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:28:39 GMT

John & Liz - While you may think that because, in your opinion, Clinton can beat McCain in Ohio that she can beat him on a nationwide basis, it is an erroneous assumption unsupported by EIGHT polls which show that Clinton CANNOT beat McCain but that Obama can. Additionally, McCain wants to go head to head with Clinton and Republican strategists have said on TV that they fear Obama. What does that tell you? Obama is the only one who can beat Clinton. Vote for Clinton and you are helping the Dems lose the White House in November. Simplex.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Harold Smith, Long Beach, Miss — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:29:42 GMT

C'Mon people….let me guess…because he used the same lines from another governor(who is a supporter), and (used the same staff).he is not qualified to be President. If we continue to elect officials with the same politics of implementing policy..then you GUYS AND GALS are the blame for rotten politics that will affect us in years to come. Your kids can thank ya'll. Now is the time for change..don't you guys see that. Is Obama perfect No! not by any means..but he does inspire for US to make a change…and Not 1 person ..Like a certain Senator from New York. Wake Up! Don't act like cattle who just hold their heads up when a wolf come around. Geez…Remember "Great Civilazations are never destroyed from external means, but rather from within"

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Pete, Albany, NY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:30:00 GMT

Ah, so that's the new slogan...

Since "Why Won't Barack Obama Debate Hillary Clinton In Wisconsin" didn't work, now the catchphrase is "Yes We Will"?

More and more, Billary's campaign is trying to reinvent itself.

Is that leadership?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Big D, Fresno, CA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:30:12 GMT

The media know's the Clinton history, it's their job. The media knows about the scandles, lies, hippocracies, immorality, and corruption. Just because the Clinton's are able to somehow wiggle out of all their trash, doesn't mean they're innocent.

So, John & Liz, where are you getting all you information about the Clinton? Do you know them personally? Oh, I see, you get your information from the media? I am very impressed with the way the media is handling this elaction.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Debra Austin, Tx — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:31:13 GMT

Obama uses words to give people inspiration. He advocates working across party and other divisive lines to actually get his proposals accomplished and at least tackle some of the problems facing America. He has been successful doing that in the Illinois Senate, the US Senate and we've seen he's brought thousands of new people into the political process and garnered the support of Independents and Republicans.

He has program proposals for dealing with several domestic and foreign relations issues facing America. Hillary also has proposals, many of which were taken from Obama, some from Edwards. She has no inspirational moments except when she too has stolen them from Obama (just listen to her stump speech recently). She has been one of the most divisive people in political history. Now, she claims she has solutions, well, for the most part, they are the same solutions Obama has. She has experience, well, she's about 10 -13 years older than Obama. Does she have results? NO! This is what Hillary has accomplished in her first term of office, the only public service she has to HER credit:

1) She renamed a courthouse after Justice Thurgood Marshall.
2) She passed a resolution honoring Alexander Hamilton
3) She passed a resolution celebrating the win of a Syracuse University lacrosse team.
4) She renamed post offices,
5)founded a national park in Puerto Rico.
6)Her only actual legislation included one bill to increase nurse recruitment,
7)another to aid respite time for Alzheimer’s care givers and
8) another to expand veterans’ health benefits.

In her second term, she has spent full-time campaigning for president and has the worst attendance record of the three senators now still in the presidential race.

Is this what we are giving her so much credit for in terms of experience? Is this enough reason for her candidacy? Is it just that she's a woman? Is it because she's a Clinton and she thinks she's entitled to it? Certainly, having her husband is no benefit, just look at how out of control he's been during her campaign. Has she run an efficient and effective campaign? HARDLY.

So what again Hillary is the reason we should vote for you?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

jaycee, Ventura, California — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:31:57 GMT

Former Dem, I’m a bit puzzled at how you could bring up Eagleton in 1972 as an example of how men have gotten a free pass on this issue and ignore what happened to Ed Muskie in New Hampshire that same year. Ed’s political career came crashing down when the press reported that he had tears streaming down his face while defending his wife from unfair attacks. Later some members of the press acknowledged that it might have just been melting snow.

I also was surprised that we didn’t hear more about that bit of primary campaign history when the press made a big deal out of Hillary’s rare display of emotion in the New Hampshire this round. Many of us reacted to that story in the same way you are responding to Barack’s insensitive remark. I thought the story line should have been about how cultural attitudes have evolved over the years to make it easier for candidates of either gender to show that they are subject to normal human emotion. Mitt Romney didn’t get the Muskie treatment this cycle when he became emotional, and I didn’t actually hear many echoes of the old stereotypes in the coverage of Hillary in New Hampshire, either. I thought for a moment that Edwards was about to go there in his initial response, but he quickly pulled back.

It shows what a minefield we are trying to navigate here. Bill ran into a similar problem when he suggested that Barack is a Jesse Jackson style candidate, implying that whites would never vote for an African American candidate in sufficient numbers. I think it’s useful to point out why we need to be careful about the language we choose, but we also need to recognize that times have changed and many, hopefully most, voters have already moved on.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Jenny, Cleveland, OH — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:33:17 GMT

Cleveland LOVES Hillary! We already saw through all of Obama's BS weeks ago. This is just another confirmation that he IS all words and now he's just using someone's else's words that were effective in another campaign (but remember this Patrick guy was a mess in office). His inspiration was all he had - even his followers were saying that they are following him because he inspires. So basically, he's just a effective speaker because ANYONE can memorize speeches and deliver them (with a little coaching from an Oprah trainer). Tune in to the 2nd debate with these two candidates and listen for yourselves: Hillary's knowledge of world events (she was a presence in Kosevo w/refugees by the way) and national events (creating the health care program for children that my kids utilized when we were unemployed) will be very clear in these debates. His words will be scrutinized greatly, as will hers. In the end, she's already won.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Debra Austin, Tx — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:33:31 GMT

So, what's the point of this article? Obama uses words to give people inspiration wherever they come from. He advocates working across party and other divisive lines to actually get his proposals accomplished and at least tackle some of the problems facing America. He has been successful doing that in the Illinois Senate, the US Senate and we've seen he's brought thousands of new people into the political process and garnered the support of Independents and Republicans.

He has program proposals for dealing with several domestic and foreign relations issues facing America. Hillary also has proposals, many of which were taken from Obama, some from Edwards. She has no inspirational moments except when she too has stolen them from Obama (just listen to her stump speech recently). She has been one of the most divisive people in political history. Now, she claims she has solutions, well, for the most part, they are the same solutions Obama has. She has experience, well, she's about 10 -13 years older than Obama. Does she have results? NO! This is what Hillary has accomplished in her first term of office, the only public service she has to HER credit:

1) She renamed a courthouse after Justice Thurgood Marshall.
2) She passed a resolution honoring Alexander Hamilton
3) She passed a resolution celebrating the win of a Syracuse University lacrosse team.
4) She renamed post offices,
5)founded a national park in Puerto Rico.
6)Her only actual legislation included one bill to increase nurse recruitment,
7)another to aid respite time for Alzheimer’s care givers and
8) another to expand veterans’ health benefits.

In her second term, she has spent full-time campaigning for president and has the worst attendance record of the three senators now still in the presidential race.

Is this what we are giving her so much credit for in terms of experience? Is this enough reason for her candidacy? Is it just that she's a woman? Is it because she's a Clinton and she thinks she's entitled to it? Certainly, having her husband is no benefit, just look at how out of control he's been during her campaign. Has she run an efficient and effective campaign? HARDLY.

So what again Hillary is the reason we should vote for you?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Chris Stewart — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:33:53 GMT

I don't think Obama gives any ground to Clinton or McCain on policy matters. He has better, less ideological ideas. I can debate anyone on Barack's policies, which means at the very least he has some.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

s.annbu, maryland — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:36:48 GMT

Let's take a closer look at who's really qualified Obama or Clinton.

Records of these two candidates should be scrutinized in order to make an informed decision.

Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term - 6 yrs. - and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law - 20 - twenty pieces of legislation in her first six years.

These bills can be found on the website of the Library of Congress but to save you trouble, I'll post them here for you.

1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3. Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.
4. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5. Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6. Name post office after Jonn A. O'Shea.
7. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
10. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
11. Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
12. Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.
13. Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
14. Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death.
15. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty. Only five of Clinton's bills are, more substantive.
16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
17. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11
18. Assist landmine victims in other countries.
19. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
20. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.

There you have it, the fact's straight from the Senate Record.

Now, I would post those of Obama's, but the list is too substantive, so I'll mainly categorize.

During the first - 8 - eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced

233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.

His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included **the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 - became law, **The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, - became law, **The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate, **The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, - became law, **The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, In committee, and many more.

An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no record according to some who would prefer that this comparison not be made public.

He's not just a talker. He's a doer. Imagine...HOPE AND SOLUTIONS! What a great President he is going to make.
Hillary supporters, do your homework. Uninformed voters put Bush in office not 1 term, but 2 terms.
How long do those of us who are educated and informed have to suffer by the votes of those who are not!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Maggie B — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:36:56 GMT

"many of the women in this country should be 'truly ashamed' for backing a candidate just because of their gender with complete disregard of any meaningful issues,"
- ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Hillary does nothing but present ISSUES. She has a proven record with all the issues she has taken up and actually has ORIGINAL ideas and plans to solve out current problems and issues. BARACK OBAMA DOESN'T SPEAK ABOUT ISSUES!!

"this country is more than ready to elect a women president, if one that is worthy of the office decides to run,"
- the media has proven itself time and time again that a woman running for president is a free for all attacks; however, a black MAN, well that's a different story. Hillary is ready, able, qualified and worth to run and WIN. Obama, however, is not any of those adjectives.

"and the constant whimpering of you sexist females is growing painfully tiresome and silly"
- whimpering females huh? and that is not sexist? right. However, when Obama whines racism for anything that questions his words or records, that's not whimpering? Please - wipe your eyes, clean out your ears and face the truth - BARACK is nothing but a lying, manipulating, plagerizing, inexperienced MAN that just knows how to give a speech. And just because he created a mindless cult that follows his every words and decides not to listen to the truth- don't think the rest of the Americans is that stupid.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Sandlapper — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:38:17 GMT

Mark Sanford has legal troubles - he is NOT in the VP sweepstakes among anyone but those behind-the-curve folks like CHUCK TODD and CHRIS CILIZZA.

A federal judge has Sanford in hot water for improperly conduct regarding South Carolina's State Ports Authority.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Debra — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:38:30 GMT

We're not hearing anything about Hillary stealing lines from Obama? Why isn't she being hammered? It's one thing to use some material from a friend and ally, battling against the same old politics, but when your opponent steals your words, what does that say? She has nothing; neither inpiration nor a track record. Now, despite receiving the highest amount of funds from special interests and their lobbyist, Hillary has put out a pamphlet on what she will do for the middle class. Are you kidding me? She steals words from Obama, programs from Edwards and has nothing to offer but a loud moughed husband. Hillary, really?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

sue, mulberry, fl — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:38:35 GMT

Big lier Obama, was not in the Senate when they voted on the war, so how would he have voted, I would say yes since he sure has voted enought to fund this war. Just full of hot air like his copy cat speeches.

The war vote was voted on a long time before he got to the Senate. He has only been thier 2 years. Another lie from Obama.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Jano,Clearwater,Fl — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:39:02 GMT

I would like to see OBama do a town hall style meeting where he does not make speeches and takes on unrehearsed questions and answers them. That would be the best camparison between the 2 candidates. Hillary has repeatedly done this, I beleive it was because of this that she won New Hampshire. She does not make an opening speech, but gets right down to the questions. I also beleive that she can do this because she has worked with these issues and knows them by heart. Has had time to give them much thought. She has a brilliant mind & in depth knowledge. I really beleive her inspiration comes from a deep desire to go down in History as a great president that accomplished much for the country and if she does correct the Bush problems that will indeed be the case. Women are more intuitive for the most part, all you men out there had mothers. Would you not say the same of them?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Bruce, Cape May, NJ — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:39:33 GMT

The detail-happy, micromanaging Hilary Clinton as a "female Jimmy Carter" -- I like it. Is that what it means to hold a woman to the same standards as a man? I'll take it.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Venkat, Sterling, VA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:41:32 GMT

To all those woman voters out there who are supporting Hillary blindly with no regard for issues or character, you need to be ashamed of yourself. What would happen if every 'group' in this country started acting like you? We would have horrible politicians getting elected all over the country just because some 'group' decides they want someone like them get elected regardless of worthiness.
I would suggest that you woman who rabidly support Hillary because she is a woman should clam down and think coolly. You are doing the country a big disservice.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Chris Stewart — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:41:43 GMT

Obama realizes that the role of government is build infrastructure. Ask any economist. The government should invest in technologies that lower the cost of investment for businesses. Hence, updating hospital technologies is more useful than enforcing a permanent healthcare tax (i.e., mandate). McCain on the other hand is too business-friendly. He doesn't realize that the costs are currently prohibitive for the private sector to fix health care.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

John Doe — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:42:53 GMT

FYI: Obama talking about Hillary Clinton on her period and being down, is disgusting, and an insult to ALL women.
Tell us why you won't debate Hillary in Wisconsin Obama, tell us the real truth about your years of friendship with Rezco the slum lord who has been indited, tell us the truth abot Exilon, and the nuclear bill that you watered down for your big contributors,.. make some more stolen, dream, fairytale speeches. Then tell us why anyone let alone women should vote for you.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

American Patriot — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:43:26 GMT

Well, I have researched the candidates. The Dem front runner's policies are a serious concern. Their ideas, if allowed to turn into action would enlarge government leading to higher taxes ultimately for everyone, send us further into debt as a nation, and increase government regulation over our lives thereby reducing our personal freedom.

Is THIS what people really want?

People say we can just stop the war, end the Bush tax cuts and fund health care. Well, war is intended to be temporary. Ending the Bush tax cuts will hurt those who spend the most in our economy, who create the companies, products, and services that create jobs for people, that people purchase and that keep our economy going.

Health care would end up as a program similar to SS or Medicare, which just keep going and going. Where does the money come from for the health care program when the "savings" from ending the Bush tax cuts run out? When the cost of health care exceeds the cost of any war?

WAKE UP! THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. EVER.

Why have the candidates only given dollar amounts (and these amounts need to be questioned for accuracy) for their health programs that would only cover 5 years?

If you want to see how a mandated program a la Hillary Clinton would look like, look no further than Massachusetts.

What this country needs right now is someone who is fiscally responsible. I don't think anyone currently running qualifies, with the exception of Ron Paul and his foreign policy is, like Obama's, naive.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

MARYLOU, LHC, AZ. — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:45:56 GMT

CHECK OUT VIDEO ON YOUTUBE! MEDIA KEEPING THIS SECRET!
** Man files Federal Lawsuit against Obama regarding GAY sexual act and drug use claims **

A man named Larry Sinclair posted a video to YouTube claiming to have used cocaine and engaged in a gay sexual act with Obama when Obama was a state legislator in 1999.

In the video, Sinclair claims he and Obama met on two separate occasions, that Obama used crack cocaine and that Sinclair performed an oral sexual act on Obama both evenings.

Now Obama and company are quickly trying to quiet this man, but Sinclair has filed a federal lawsuit. Sinclair filed suit against Obama and his campaign guru David Axelrod and DNC chair Howard Dean in Minnesota district court for allegedly attempting to abridge Sinclair's right to free speech, and for waging an intimidation campaign against him.

check out the video on youtube for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVeFVtcdSYY

This has also been covered by The Smoking Gun but no one else.

America wants to know: where's the media coverage on this???? We deserve to hear the truth!

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56626 is the latest website covering the story.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Debra — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:45:56 GMT

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

JFHaley, Chicago, IL — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:47:32 GMT

Wow - after reading all these posts today, I'm afraid - REALLY afraid - when thinking about the future of our country.
If this is a representative sampling of the intelligence level of the voters out there - in other words, the people conducting the job interviews for being the next POTUS (president of the United States).
First we get someone claiming that Barack was being "sexist" when he referred to Hillary as "being down." She seems like an intelligent, articulate and well-informed woman, but she interprets this as a "sexist" reference to Hillary's emotional state rather than what it was - a reference to her position in the polls and her vote/delegate counts. It's amazing how people read/hear things from their own viewpoint and respond without stopping to THINK for a moment.
Then we get all the people arguing about which candidate is getting the BIGGEST free pass from the media and which one is suffering from the BIGGEST planned/plotted series of biased attacks from the media.
If you think that Hillary Clinton is being "bashed" by the media, ask yourself why it seems like that. When she continuously comes up with campaign themes that fall flat, and grows increasinly more desperate in her attempts to find ANYTHING that could slow down Obama's momentum and growing support, the media are going to REPORT on that. It's not BIASED to point out that someone's campaign strategies are failing when that person's campaign strategies really ARE FAILING. That's just reporting!
Hillary claims that one reason she should be "approved" as the candidate is that she's taken all the hits from the Republicans nasty attacks and is "still standing." She can - and has - taken the worst they can throw at her. Um... I seem to remember her husband being under such constant scrutiny and "attacks" that he ended up being impeached. I remember her heading off to Martha's Vineyard after one of Bill's affairs was proven before the eyes of the entire country. To claim that she "took their worst and came out the other side" because she's been elected in a heavily blue, liberal state is not a valid reason to elect someone president. Hillary claims to be tough and says she can take it, yet she and Bill cry and whine EVERY TIME they thing the MEDIA - not the Republicans, but just the press - are being unfair to her (them). And FORGET about trying to talk to Chelsea. She is OFF LIMITS - even though she's working full-time as a campaign surrogate for her mom. WHY can't the media interview her then? She's NOT a child, she's a 28 year-old WOMAN who is campaigning full-time for one of the two people fighting for the nomination to become the next POTUS. But the media can't talk to her???
I won't even get into why the media are not pressing her on the issue of why she REFUSES to release her tax returns until after the nomination is decided. Isn't that a "free pass" of sorts that she is getting from the media?
Come on people - let's all get real here. We've got a race between two very capable candidates here. One has the added advantage of being a really dynamic, inspirational speaker. He has a charisma and an ability to excite people to the extent that they are willing to get involved again and demand that their elected officials begin to behave differently and start to do the work they were elected to do.
In other words, we have a candidate who realizes that the ability to unite and inspire the electorate is a big part of what's been missing in last few decades of our history. I'd be happy to see a woman become president. I'd even be happy to have Hillary Clinton be my president. I voted for Bill twice and view him as the best president we've during my adult life.
But when there is a candidate like Barack Obama, who really gets what the job of being president is all about, and has a unique and - unfortunately - rare ability to excite, inspire and motivate people to take action, then Hillary Clinton is NOT the right person for the job IN THIS MOMENT.
This country doesn't just need a leader like Barack Obama right now. This country is desperate for a leader like Barack Obama right now. We're at a point where our economy is a shambles, we're in two wars with no quick end in sight, people are divided along political and economic and social lines like never beforeand our planet is on the brink of being destroyed by our behaviors.
Any one of these issues could be handled by a president like Hillary Clinton. But all of them existing simultaneously DEMANDS a leader with the qualities and talents of BArack Obama. He IS the solution.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Colleen, Boston, MA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:50:33 GMT

Well, if there are two things I've learned as a lifelong democrat its 1: Never underestimate the stupidity of the American people (particularly after electing Bush TWICE) and 2: The Dems always seem to find a way to snatch Defeat from the Arms of Victory. These two truths are becoming even more evident now that it appears that, in a time of war and recession, the Dems are about to send a freshman senator who's greatest accomplishment in the senate is legislation that lobbyist can't pay for a meal if you're sitting down! Great, yup, for sure this is the guy we want to send up as our best shot of getting the whitehouse back!
As for change, there's nothing more "old tricks" than a politician that's all talk and no action. So how is this happening? Maybe it has something to do with the "Yes We Can Concert Tour 2008" Lets be honest, clearly that's what the American people want - a rock show, rhetoric style. Who cares about whether or not the guy is qualified to run a country - he's fun to watch, right! But hey, I'm in MA. I already cast my vote for Hillary (despite what Ted and John told me to do) So there's nothing else I can do but watch the democratic ship go down .....again!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Carrie, Lenexa Ks. — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:50:34 GMT

Yoo people are so stuped, obama was not stealing a line from someonelse, He was trying to get ignorant people like you and the hilary followers to understand about phrases and their meaning. And how those words were not only words, they have meaning to them. And the importantance of speeches and the power of words. Looks like the hilary supporters need that good edgucation she been preaching about. Take advantage of the educational programing that they both offer. You stupid dummies

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

AJ, Los Angeles, CA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:50:52 GMT

Some people find a way to spin what Obama said about Hillary "feeling down" as sexist. Are you serious??? That is sexist??? I am a woman and I took what he said just how she said it, Hillary lost and was feeling down. Isn't that why she cried before New Hampshire? Obama has been nothing but a gentleman towards Hillary, pulling out her chair during the debate, not interupting her even though she does it over and over again, not bringing up the numerous Clinton scandals, and the list goes on... This whole Obama being sexist thing is the biggest fairytale I have ever seen! LOL

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

patrick, Boulder CO — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:52:17 GMT

What do I need to do to get posted here? I've posted twice in the past two days and nothing. Please let me know...

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Ryan Healey, Central, CT — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:53:55 GMT

Speak Truthfully,

The Clinton's balanced the country's budget in their 8 years in the White House and left us with a surplus Bush has blown. John McCain also had to take a loan out to fund his campaign just a few short weeks ago, so what Clinton did was not off. Even Romney was using his own money. YES, Hillary's campaign manager spend far more than she should have betting Super Tuesday would be the end, she was wrong and has been fired. Hillary is now raising $1 million a day and the money troubles are fading. What Hillary did not count on is the media giving a free pass to Obama to say whatever he wanted without any questions and the public going for a great public speaker who has no experience for President when she is clearly the better choice at this time of crisis. My hope is she takes Wisconsin (or comes close) and then takes Texas, Ohio and PA as it seems she will to finally put thing in order. Obama will be an excellent VICE PRESIDENT and with Hillary's experience and his passionate speeches they will wipe our McCain easily.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

HP Boston — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:56:18 GMT

Oh my that hope candidate better prepare for the bashing and the thrashing when McCain skewers YOU! The Hopeless BO better get used to the fact that MILIONS OF WOMEN, THE MAJORITY, WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM! WOMEN ARE THE MAJORITY. TIME TO TAKE OUR PLACE AS THE MAJORITY OF THIS NATION!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Whole Truth in California — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:58:21 GMT

Former Dem in CA:

Hysterically funny that, in a political blog that mentions Obama's potential plagiarism issues, you would choose to attack him by using (in full) an unattributed article by Karen Stabiner of Huffington Post. Ironic and priceless!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:03:20 GMT

Hey Jane Dawn,
...at least Hillary finished a full term in the Senate before she ran for President.
Obama didn't do that.
He always intended to use the junior senate seat from Illinois as a springboard to The White House.
He was never going represent the people of Illinois.
He knew right from the start that he was going to try and run out on them after less than half a term.
You shouldn't be throwing stones when your own candidate is surrounded by such a big glass house...(that he bought for only two thirds of it's full market value, in connection with a federally indicted political racketeer.....)

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Words matter, Pasadena, CA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:03:53 GMT

The well of human wisdom is free and open to all. There is no copyright on the wisdom someone chooses to draw from that well, even if that person's name is Senator Obama or Senator Clinton. To claim otherwise is to attempt to divert people from the underlying truth of the wisdom. In this instance, the underlying truth of the wisdom is "words DO matter."

Indeed, this is such a common truth that Senator Obama could have drawn on a multitude of voices stretching back for centuries. For example, "the pen is mightier than the sword" could be appropriately transposed to the "the voice is mightier than the sword." Senator Obama could also have quoted from the Old Testament:

"A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver." Proverbs 25:11.

The examples of the truth of Senator Obama's words (which were also used by Governor Deval Patrick) are not undermined by the fact that this truth has been set forth for centuries; rather, the truth that "words matter" is strengthened by the fact that it runs deep and far back in the well of accumulated human wisdom.

"Yes we can" was not first spoken by Gov. Bill Clinton when he was running for President. "Yes we can" is translated from the Spanish cry of Cesar Chavez. This does not undermine Senator Obama's use of the call -- rather, it strengthens it and recognizes our common ancestral wisdom. Indeed, if I had the time, I could do the research and probably find that "Yes we can" predated Mr. Chavez' movement as well.

This only strengthens the truth of the words; our past is interwoven in our present in the accumulated wisdom of our ancestors. We ignore that wisdom at our peril, for what they learned during their existence, we can learn now without the agony they had to suffer while discovering the particular truth that they bequeath to us, their descendants.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

s.berman, agoura hills, calif. — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:05:56 GMT

Two words, Condoleeza Rice.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Frannie — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:09:49 GMT

HRC and her minions of hard core self-entitled females who are offended by Mr. Obama saying anything in reply to The BILLARY campaign with all the mud slingling by HRC and her hubby is par for the course. She can't even manage her own campaign with 35 years of experience, it seems from DAY ONE she has been incompetent with over 100 million donor dollars, yet she decided to scapegoat her Campaign manager, instead of she and her hubby taking responsibility. I'll bet this carpebagger US Senator from NY hasn't inquired about and properly represented those New York state voters in Harlem that were marginalized during the Feb 5th super tuesday vote by not having their votes for Obama counted at all. She is a liar and she proves it every time she opens her mouth. She will use black voters as long as they are good "negroes" towing the line for her, but she and her husband will play their entire deck of race cards with glee, without hesitation, to get what they want.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

PBrown — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:12:19 GMT

Obama has proven himself to be a habitual plagiarizer and waffler. He copied HRC's solutions for the country and adopted them as his own and then he continuously quotes or invokes the names of JFK, and MLK. I am not impressed and I am getting very tired of this Obama hot air balloon ride.
air sick (Sent Monday, February 18, 2008 10:19 AM)
_____________________

Do you know how pathetic and adolescent you sound.....Here you are another one of the Clintons’ Supporters who continues not to serve their candidate well.....

The problem is that they are not far apart on many things but Barack inspires people to want to get involved and Hillary doesn't.....

And I am sorry many of you are having a difficult time dealing with this…..

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Jeff Saeli, Orlando, fl. — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:12:34 GMT

So, the Clinton campaign is accusing Obama of plagerism over the use of words by Franklin Roosevelt, Thomas Jefferson and Martin Luther King in a recent speech. Are the words of these famous Americans not part of our collective history? What school kid doesn't know of the inspiring words of the second paragraph of the Declartion of Independence? The Clinton camapign is desperate, and bringing this nonsense up for public review proves it.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Ron Rindfleisch, Sheboygan, Wi — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:13:35 GMT

As an Obama supported in Wisconsin I get concerned as I listen to conservative Republicans announce on talk radio they are voting for Clinton tomorrow in order to keep the Democratic race going. They are voting for McCain in November and believe that Clinton will be easier to beat than Obama. The Wisconsin primary is totally open to the extent that no record is even kept of which party primary a voter votes in. It won't suprise me to see Clinton do well tomorrow due to all the Republican voters trying to stop Obama. They know Obama will be much harder to beat in November.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Peg, PA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:14:17 GMT

To all feminist supporters of H. Clinton: Please check the following link to see a list of most educated feminists who support B. Obama, and their rationale.

www.ipetitions.com/petition/NYfeministsforpeace/

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Michael,PHX. — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:16:50 GMT

I'm concerned about Mr. Clinton--he is very stressed out--and may have stopped taking his meds.
Relax,Bill--it will all be over soon--no wait a second--IT'S ALREADY OVER!!!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

ohhhh — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:21:43 GMT

Will clinton win all the populated states and OBAMA win the less populated wouldnt want your man to have won any large states like ARIZONA CALIFORNIA NEW YORK NEW JERSEY What happens to your theory ITS OVER when Clinton wins ,THANK YOU OBAMA FROM ALL OF US AT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, PENNSYLVANIA OHIO TEXAS,By the bye WE did it we have flipped the democratic party on their heads ,they hate each other they are divided they are wasting all the money on the primaries MACAIN 08 !1 term and done

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

pauline — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:22:12 GMT

there's plenty of evidence of clinton stealing words from another politician...namely obama. she's co-opted every single successful slogan his campaign has used. suddenly she's all about hope, change, the "can do" candidate the list goes on and on.
on the campaign financing issue; by harping on this is clinton admitting that obama's likely to be the nominee? because if she's so sure she's going to walk away with the nomination it's a moot point. anyway he's already said he'd abide to whatever the two candidates can reach an agreement on.
all the negativity of these past few weeks is really starting to get disheartening, this is the exact reason that so many people hate politics, because there are always those politicians that pretend the only option is to be nasty.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Gudrun Maria Fosberg — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:24:21 GMT

When is the press starting to scrutinize Obama the same way they grill Hillary and have been grilling her. The fact that Republicans want Obama should tell everyone that they have enough dirt on him for Mc Cain to beat him.
This is scary, another Guy in the White House who loves war and bombs.Sick

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

GaryD Amherst NH — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:31:24 GMT

Hey fellow Democrats. It's pretty evident that independents and those not for Hillary will not join the Hillary bandwagon if she is the Democratic nominee. If Obama gets the nomination he gets my vote. It will be an interesting contest between Obama and McCain. If Hillary gets the nomination then McCain gets my vote ......and so goes the nation...

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Azikiwe Taft Raleigh,NC — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:38:35 GMT

All I have to say is that all of the street-level demo-activist inthe African-American community are braced to bolt from the party if Bill AND Hillary TRY TO USE THE SUPER DELEGATES TO STEAL THE NOMINATION; it would be a great miscalculation for them to assume we will work and vote for Billary after those kind of antics. I'll vote for McCain or stay home.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Ohio — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:39:37 GMT

Mrs. Bill Clinton is 2 peas in a pod. She is just exactly the way Herbert walker bush described Mr. Clinton before. Watch this guy, his name is SLICKY BILLY. Will do anything to win including lying in f---- Monica Lewinsky.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

BushWasChangeAgentToo — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:41:22 GMT

If John is refering my comment, then he is wrong. I am Hillary supporter but has nothing to do with Hillary's campaign. I spoke for myself. Whatever I said was the facts. I did not even mentioned Hillary or Obama is my comment.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Lisa, Minnesota — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:43:59 GMT

Curious, Obama is the kind of person,in my opinion, who will not do what Hillary and the other democratic establishment who did not take the people's opinion about the rush to war in Iraq into mind! I feel if the people stand up against something, he will include our opinions and not ignore them the way some other politicians have! I trust him, and that is how I feel and I feel good about it!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Dr Ray, Columbus, OH — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:45:21 GMT

Former Dem from CA wrote, "A soft-spoken observation about what a female candidate does when she's "feeling down," the implication being that Hillary's distress over the delegate count had impaired her judgment..."

Get a life! This is exactly what Obama is trying to get us Americans to rise above. Every time someone says anything about Hillary, it does not reflect on all women the same way every time Hillary says something about Obama, it doesn't reflect on all people of color.

Btw, the Virginia votes showed that Hillary lost even the women vote. Could it be that most women, unlike the "white-mailing" "former Dem" person, are beginning to realize that we have to appeal on the better angels of our nature?

Some Hillary fans are getting more and more shrill and desperate by the minute. And that comment, madam, is about them, not about all women.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Shannon Martin — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:48:21 GMT

OBAMA IS TRYING TO BUY THE NOMINATION!! According to CNN, Obama has "donated" more than $698,000 to superdelegates in recent months. Does that sound like "change" we should believe in?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Brent T — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:52:10 GMT

Obama copied off of Edwards often and without his approval. Still the story never caught any traction, but back then the Clinton's didn't care.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Yes we can! — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:52:15 GMT

Oh give it a rest J Merle, you hypocrit. How concerned are you about old real estate deals when the subject is Whitewater!?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

wake up,norwalk,oh — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:56:52 GMT

OH,PLEASE
You think that once the media does not have Hillary to slaughter on a daily basis it will not be Obama's turn?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

please be smart,Largo,fl — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:00:18 GMT

One more time can anyone say what is Obama's standon women's rights? Or should I see what JFK or MLK said?

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Christopher Johnsen Seattle, WA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:01:01 GMT

I hear all this talk that Obama will be the great uniter, and will bring democrats & republicans together. Sorry - but if you look at our primary system so far - I think the democratic party is anything but united. If this guy can't even unite democrats behind him, I fail to see how he's going to bring republicans over as well.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Pamela Le'Mon, Earlton, New York — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:01:35 GMT

Chuck Todd's piece on 'Just Words Whose Words' has me, a female attorney in New York State wondering why this story did not include my Senator, Hillary Clinton's word to supporters in New Hamsphire that she was "fired up and ready to go." Where oh where did those words come from.

As a women and democrat, I will be joining the many here in New York who are fighting to change the political system which refuses to allow Independents to vote in the NY primary. I have too many friends who had to cast off their independence, simply to vote in the primary held on September 5th. We are locked in a two party system of someone else's making. If we truly wish to have our voices, ideas and yes, hope entertained in Washington, we need to be able to cast our votes in a manner which includes all the voters, at all times.

Further, if my senator wins the nomination, I will vote for Senator McCain. If I am going to vote for the status quo, I might as well go all the way. There's no use in fooling ourselves. The differences between Hillary and McCain is simply gender. I would no more cast a vote for an African American simply because he is African American, then I would cast a vote for a woman, simply because she is a women. History has taught me one thing, and I am borrowing the words of another, 'Ain't I a Women.' To me these words are significant here. Sisterhood has its divisions, whether we will it or not.

Whatever your gender or race, we are Americans. Vote your beleifs, not your race, not your gender.

Vote your Americanhood!

Pamela, New York

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

TeeJay' Country Place, Columbus, Ohio — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:11:57 GMT

Not sure about Wis, Texas, and Penn but Ohio has an open primary. And there are many middle of the road Repub's and Indy's that will be voting for Obama on 3/4/08. We are ready for change in DC. Many of us see the Clinton's as a polarizing force in politics. I was once very supportive of Pres. Clinton, but I think he changed (and for good reason) after the far right attacked on the Lewinski thing (which was un-Presidential, but un-related to politics). McCain is too Bush-like for those of us in the middle and Obama is insparational and no part of the DC establishment. I believe he can meet people in the middle and re-unify this country the way Regan did, and the way Clinton did in his first term. Just my 2 Cents

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Carol — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:13:45 GMT

I am not drinking the Kool-aid. I want someone who is ready to be commander and chief. There are serious economic and national security issues in this country. I cannot afford a vacation to the Island of Hope. Do you think the Republicans will give Obama the same free pass the press has? Think again.
Hillary Clinton for President!!!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Todd, Phoenix, AZ — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:14:09 GMT

Can supporters of HRC please support their candidate in a way that doesn't bash Obama ...

What are you talking about ... Obama supporters on here bash Clinton regularly. You must be new to First Read blogs, because if you peruse them regularly you'll see no shortage of unwarranted hatred and disparagement of Hillary and Bill.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Carmen — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:16:17 GMT

"Gil Troy

A Collective Act of Historical Amnesia
We seem to be suffering from a collective act of historical amnesia. All the commentators claiming that Senator Barack Obama has generated more excitement than any candidate since John F. Kennedy have overlooked the inconvenient, embarrassing, fact that a more recent candidate generated a similar buzz. In fact, given the ubiquity of this “JFK standard,” we could say that the last candidate to trigger such Kennedyesque hopes was none other than Obama’s chief rival’s spouse (could we say rival in-law): Bill Clinton.

Remember back in 1992 Clinton was the candidate of hope, who happened to be born in a little town called Hope. Coming from nowhere, a relative unknown when he started, he was carrying the torch of a new generation, generating rock-star like crowds with his special kind of charisma and his own distinctive eloquence steeped in optimism. Clinton on the campaign trail had that “It” factor that Obama has. Clinton had millions gushing that he was their John Kennedy, the first candidate in their lifetime who inspired them and empowered them."

More . . . http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/47185.html

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Sirena, Wausau, Wis. — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:17:07 GMT

Phil from Oak Park: Perhaps one of the most thoughtful posts I've seen here.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Beth, Madison, WI — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:20:47 GMT

Todd, Chuck and Domenico: As journalists, I'm sure you know that proofreading your blog is important.....

Wisconsin was clearly an afterthought for Hillary Clinton and she has been playing catch-up ever since. Her attack ads are sad. The scheduling of events for her, Chelsea and Bill were not as well thought out as Barack Obama's, or even John McCain and Mike Huckabee.

The decision tomorrow will be tough, but Hillary's devisiveness is a problem. Her intelligence and experinece is not.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Dan King, San Bernardino, CA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:20:47 GMT

Hillary claims, and others endorse the feeling, that she really did well in the last debate. Wolf allowed her to talk and talk and talk. She consumbed over 70 percent of the time. The way to tick her off is to hold her to a strict time and interrupt her. Queens do not like that.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Perry — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:21:06 GMT

Former Dem,
Now you know how Barack feels when people call him the Great Black Hope like Jeff Fund called him on The Journal Report. That is code for everyone to be scared because he is only going to be concerned about Black issues. Is Hillary the Great White Hope. I think we can look at both candidates and take them for face value. I live in NY so I have seen Hillary (or not seen her) for six years and believe me you should really check out her record against his. You may be shocked at what you see. She keepes saying she has been vetted and everyone believes it. When has she been vetted? Her first campaign in NY she ran against a nobody in Rick Lazio because Guilliani got prostrate cancer before the race began. Then the next year she won against another nobody. The only time she had real scrutiny was when she was in the oval office and most of it came after her husbands misdeeds. They want us to think that Barack is a neophite against Hillary but if she has experience because of her years in the White House then all sposes could run. Here comes Laura Bush!! Look my son did an intern with Hillary, and I know Harold Ickes who has taken over her campaign. The people she is bringing in are old hands for Bill, not Hillary. Who is really running the show. Barack has been on the scene as a candidate for one year. Look at what he has done to the country and people under thirty. Can you really say we would be seeing this excitement had Hillary been running against John Edwards, I think not. As for the issues he believes in and his not being specific, just go to his web site. Why is everyone so lazy. Do we really need to see them debate again? If you are voting for Hillary soley because she is a woman I can not convince you not to. But that is also saying that you are not picking her because she is the best candidate, but that she is a woman. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Perry — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:24:13 GMT

Phil,

Well said, I agree with you whole heartedly. We will need every vote come november. Go Barack!!!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:28:26 GMT

".....Vote your mind..it is your right, but your syllogism is faulty.

Obama 08....."
**Speak Truthfully,** Cincinnati, Ohio (Sent Monday, February 18, 2008 11:50 AM)

Why should you ask anyone else to....YOU don't.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

CJ — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:37:30 GMT

John made a good point...out of all of the insults and divisive comments HRC backers here make, they don't give one good reason to be for their candidate. Nobody believes experience, nobody believes just because she is a woman. What else please? I'm still standing behind Obama..and to learn the Rezko/house purchase was on the up and up has affirmed my confidence in him even more. At this point, every day HRC's camp seems to grasp at straws with "nag" issues that have nothing to do with running for the Presidency. She can't win on ideas(her losing streak), she can't win on character...all she has is negative attacks.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Jenny Chevy Chase MD — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:38:41 GMT

I don't see how Hillary goes to Ohio and wins. Her support for NAFTA cost this state millions of manufacturing jobs.

Now she is the "jobs" candidate ? lol

The one thing we know is this :

Hillary has been outdone in every aspect of campaign managment by Obama. The great Clinton "machine" has been undone .

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Amy, Honolulu, HI — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:46:02 GMT

Hillary's and her supporters' constantly negative and lying tone is giving me a migraine. Do you want to try to win at any cost, e.g., 4 more years of war and crumbling social services? Please get a grip. The "plagiarism" issue is no less absurd than the "scandal" o Obama's kindergarden papers.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Susan Jackson, Texas — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:47:22 GMT

I think we women know that men just don't want a woman President. I also wish people would take the time to look up the National Debt. if you notice under Clinton it was blue and now so red it will take forever to get back in the black. Also people should look at the Deficit. If you can type here you can find it easy. We're broke everyone so the current President has done so well. I don't think Obama has a chance to win the election if he is chosen. This song keeps going through my mind Obamarama. I notice people never call him Mr. Obama just Obama. Odd.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

lloyd coffing .henderson.nevada — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:51:02 GMT

change,change,change,change,what is he going to change.he does not say,could be for the worst.I CAN HERE WHAT HILLARY WHAT SHE IS GOING TO DO.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

lloyd coffing .henderson.nevada — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:53:11 GMT

change,change,change,what kind of change,i cant here him

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

lloyd coffing .henderson.nevada — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:57:04 GMT

change,change,change,change,what is he going to change.he does not say,could be for the worst.I CAN HERE WHAT HILLARY IS GOING TO DO.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Phong Nguyen, Tamarac, FL — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:58:10 GMT

In a speech in Eau Claire, Wisconsin on February 16, 2008, Senator Obama said that “change only comes from below” and that “change does not come from above.” If so, what he is running for the highest office in the country for? Senator Obama is a veteran politician who tells his supporters what they want to hear: the same charge he levels at his opponents.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Bill Steed, Mobile, AL — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:03:14 GMT

The reason HRC and BHO sound like they're stealing from each other is simple: When it come to policy, they're basically in lock-step agreement with each other. Their differences are VERY few.

None of the Above '08

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Paul Van Dijk — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:04:15 GMT

Insptie of the spins and silly engagements in non-issues, both Hillary and Obama have detailled policy prescriptions that are extensively publicized and easily accessible. Given the similarity of their policies on various issues, the choice comes down to who will be more effective to implement these plans. All evidence right now shows that Barack is more likely not only to win against Mccain due to his better appeal to independents and some republians but also he is more likely to have a functional relationship with Republicans once in power. This should be a very important consideration for every democrat.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

NO OPPO, California — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:07:13 GMT

To "Former Dem California': Actually, it was HRC who first used the mantle of describing her opponent's emotional state, claiming she could tell Obama was "Frustrated" in the South Carolina debate in which both appeared testy. She claimed it was due to Obama's losses in NH and NV, though we now know he picked up more delegates in both of them than she did!

Perhaps one could grasp a gender bias in that one, as well.

Probably better each not be credited to much for judging their rival's mental state - though I also submit Barack may have simply used the term "feeling down" to mean that things were going against her in terms of results, not an emotional state. On that latter point, he appears quite correct, as we've observed these election/caucus eve slime tactics used by the HRC team ahead of most contests since Iowa.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Rob H., Seabrook, NH — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:09:34 GMT

I swear... this squabbling is why I voted Republican in the past (though I did write-in the Presidential selection seeing that none of the candidates were worth voting for in my honest opinion). If it weren't for the fact that Senator McCain is a menace and would probably send this country into another pointless war, I'd vote Republican just because of this squabbling.

No candidate is perfect. But don't burn your bridges before you reach them.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

SunDawg — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:15:58 GMT

Gregory Peek I feel ya!

Slash and burn, win at any costs politics will irreparably harm the party. If the Dems lose in '08 that loss will be squarely and fairly the legacy of Bill Clinton.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Doris,Selma, Alabama — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:18:57 GMT

I don't understand you conplainers. You act as it no on else has used "ask not what..." even President Kennedy use these words that were used by others. Are there patents on these words? "Pleaseeeee". "Get Real"

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Manuel from Texas — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:20:25 GMT

Senator Obama's horse sentence is "yes, we can", now "si se puede" is Hugo Chavez's workhorse sentence....did anyone read what is he doing in venezuela? Is that the meaning of Obama's "Yes, we can"? Yes, we can do what? So before attacking Mrs Clinton for free, please be informed.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

charles s., antioch ca — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:23:26 GMT

Is there anyone out there who remembers the 90's? Bill Clinton: an economy that sang, paying down on the national debt, the only president in a century to balance the national budget, record low poverty rates topped only by record low unemployment rates, no senseless ground wars, best environmental/anti-global warming measures enacted by any president, internet brought into classrooms, vaccinations for poor kids across america, making the tax code more fair by lifting taxes on the poor and middle class and letting the ones who could well afford them pay instead, the lowest poverty rates for single mothers, black Americans, and seniors. Salaries, after suffering decline under Republican rule, rose under Clinton. Hillary was not sitting planning state dinners, she served, tho they could not come out and state it because for reasons not understood by me, America wasn't going to have a brilliant spouse given any credit for her contribution. She made over 80 trips to meet with leaders in foreign countries during Bill's terms, relationships and experiences very important now to reestablishing the credibility of the US with the many countries who now despise the US. Add her committee work and 8 years in the senate, and her resume is as impressive as any Democrat should ask. The 'Clinton past' is where I long to live after 8 years of an idiot. I should trade Hillary for some great talker who started running for president at the last Democratic convention, who has no equivocating experience? Don't think so. Wish I could understand what so many were thinking these days. Of course I didn't understand either time that Bush was "elected" either.
Hillary in 2008!!!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

William Dollar — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:25:58 GMT

Wisconsin is an interesting state and a win for Obama would continue his buildup of a true leadership position for the nonimation for the Democratic party canidate against John "Wayne" McCain. A win for Hillary is not likely given all the bad things Bubba Boy as done to derail her campaign. He is such an egomanic that he simply can not stop talking about himself at her expense! So who wants a married couple like the Clintons arguing in the oval office about how to govern America! NO BODY!!!!!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Jennifer, Wisconsin, Wisconsin — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:27:37 GMT

Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton is out of touch with the needs of most Americans. Obama plans to offer tax incentives for companies to operate here in the US. He also plans to streamline the IRS to make it easier to file taxes. We need change folks!
I predict that Obama takes Wisconsin by about 7 points tomorrow. On the street here, everyone is pumped for Obama.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Andrew — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:29:35 GMT

I find it funny that some people are attacking MSNBC because they appear to be publishing negative news about Hillary, and may support Obama. The truth is that they report what the Clintons do and say, which happens to look foolish at times. On the other hand, Obama and his campaign don't appear to be making as many strategic mistakes. Finally, Obama is simply more appealing (likeable, convincing speaker) than Hillary. No matter how much people whine about it, this is the simple truth. Hillary attacking Obama's likeability (speaking strength) is laughable, at best.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

shunna, pennsylvania — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:31:30 GMT

Billary and Wild Bill should have been included in the HBO documentary entitled American Gansters. They are Corporate /White House Gangsters and make me shudder to think they could possibly reside in the White House again. I will never vote for her. If per chance she is selected by the superdelegates because she will never win.....As much as I dislike the GOP, I will cast my vote for whoever is the nominee. This is precisely the feeling of most intelligent and informed Americans. She will do anything to get back into the White House. I do hope they both return all of the paintings and furniture that I read they stole when they left the White House. They should both be thrown into jail for crime after crime. By the way she criticizes Barack representing Rezho the slum landlord...guess what...she is a close friend of his. Read about her predatory lending (Whitewater).

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Paul, Southwest, Ohio — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:35:47 GMT

Hey John and Liz,

I live in Ohio and I don't "love" Hillary.

From what I'e witnessed in my part of Ohio I think she is going to get blown out of the water onthe 4th.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Lady Professor — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:39:46 GMT

Hmmm.........well, poll after poll after poll have shown that more intelligent and more educated women support Senator Obama. We do that after studying all the facts and weighing the experience and moral character displayed by the candidates. Senator Obama clearly wins on all three counts. Putting aside his many years of working on the issues he promotes, putting aside his eight years in the Illinois legislature and the many important pieces of law that he got passed there, and ONLY looking at his first 8 months in the US Senate he has already eclipsed Senator Clinton several times over in passages of important bills. In her ENTIRE time in the senate Mrs. Clinton has only gotten through 20 bills, 16 of which had to do with either congratulating winning teams or naming buildings. The four bills for which she is credited were all basically amendments or extensions to previous bills for which there was already no opposition.

On the other hand,
Library of Congress Records…….check it out yourself.
Obama's list: (first 8 months) is too substantive, one is coalesced to categorize.
written and sponsored 890 bills.
*introduced 233 bills regarding healthcare reform,
*125 bills on poverty and public assistance,
112 bills on crime fighting,
*97 economic bills,
*60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
*21 ethics reform bills,
*15 gun control,
*6 veterans affairs and many others.
In his first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included:
(1)the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 that became LAW,
(2)The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act that became LAW, (3)The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act that passed the Senate,
(4)The 2007 Government Ethics Bill that became LAW,
(5)The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill that is in committee just to name a few.

Personally, I believe the key component to be examined in every candidate is whether or not that person has a strong moral compass. Mr Obama has that.
While a student at Harvard, Obama became President of the Harvard Law Review, the most prestigious honor a law student can earn. He graduated with high honors and then passed up dozens of extremely lucrative offers from large private and corporate law firms to work as an associate attorney with Miner, Barnhill & Galland from 1993 to 1996, where he represented community organizers, discrimination claims, and voting rights cases." At the same time he taught as an adjunct (part-time) faculty member in the University of Chicago’s Law School where he became reknown as a Constitutional scholar.

After Yale grad. Hilary Clinton flunked the D.C. bar exam for the second time (where the pass rate is 65%), she went to Arkansas and to it’s bar exam (where the pass rate is 80%) and passed. She then became a lawyer with the Rose law firm which represents corporations. She still has ties there. Mrs. Clinton sat on Walmart's board for 6 years and never once spoke out while Walmart battled their employees. She was still on that board during the class action lawsuit that women brought against Walmart. In video taped board meetings, she sat mute on the issues. She was a token woman on their board.
Senator Clinton, who constantly has siad how she was involved with all decisions made in the White House while she was first lady, stood by with a smile, while criminal after criminal were pardoned by her husband as he left office. One of those criminals, Marc Rich has been a big donor to all of Senator Clinton's campaigns and was instrumental in the "broke" Clinton's in being able to purchase their $5 million dollar home in NY.

As a well-informed voter I am very happy to have Senator Obama running for president. He is a person with a strong moral compass, with a strong track record of working with others, no matter what their party, in order to achieve good legislation in an short period of time. He is also a person who works to bring our country together by encouraging each of us to do our best. The enthusiasm for participation in our government that Senator Obama has evoked is a wonderful breath of fresh air for our country that has stagnated in the negativism and defeatism that Senator Clinton typlifies.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Anonymous — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:42:06 GMT

Obama is playing the race card and we all know it. It amazes me that his supporters and bloggers have the audacity of calling my family members in Wisconsin and telling them the Clinton's stole the black votes in Harlem and no vote was cast for Obama in Harlem and President Clinton has just opened up an office in Harlem to get the black vote. Come on people. He is a phony and so are his supporters to have to use these kind of lies. There is no way he will take office in November because republicans are not going to be lady like and will examine his past and dealing and the truth will be told and we will see he is no messiah. He has no experience, no substance and uses cheap tricks and talk. Kerry was suppose to win huge according to all polls. We saw what the result was. Action speak louder than words!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

Joanne, CA — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:42:55 GMT

I find Obama deplorable in the way he preys on the young by telling them he is for change...government is bad. These kids have not been out in the real world yet or if they have, not for very long. I find his followers very cult-like. Just blindly following for "change you can believe in". No patriotism, no pride in your country. No respect for putting your time and hard work in. He has had a free ride from the media so far but the republican dogs are anxiously waiting to be released. I am very proud of my country and I have lived all over the world. We are not perfect but we are the best in the world. I am no fan of the bush years and yes we do need to make some changes but a complete overhaul and how naive the young are that obama is the one to do it. He can't even make changes in his own state let alone the whole country. I will never vote for someone with his rhetoric bs and inexperience.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

melodymg snohomish wa — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:43:01 GMT

What we know about obama is nothing. The rezko matter is very serious. The comments obama made about either being on the rag, or having hot flashes. He is going back two hundred years or more, when women were tried like dirt. We had no voice, we could not own land, and many women were whipping post. And obama claims he is for everyone. The women of this nation need to unite against obama. He is not from american slavery. He is all talk and no do. THE REAL CHANGE IS PUTTING A WOMEN IN THE WHITE HOUSE, NOT JUST ANY WOMEN, BUT A WOMAN WHO HAS BRAINS. THIS IS A CALL TO ACTION. WOMEN OF THIS NATION NEED TO CRIE OUT A WAR CRIE. IT IS TIME WE TAKE CHARGE OF OUR NATION.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

karina, mn — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:14:34 GMT

Look up the definition of plagerism. This is a text book example. Why spin it. Obama Plagerised this speak, scrambled to get his buudy to say it was O.K. Bottom line is that this is plagerism.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

HP Boston — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:25:29 GMT

McCain is too Bush-like for those of us in the middle and Obama is insparational and no part of the DC establishment. I believe he can meet people in the middle and re-unify this country the way Regan did, and the way Clinton did in his first term. Just my 2 Cents
TeeJay' Country Place, Columbus, Ohio (Sent Monday, February 18, 2008 2:11 PM)

------------------------------------
TEEJAY better do some homework and take a look at BO again. He has joined the DC insiders, are you not paying attention? He is buying, paying and courting the Oprah and Hollywood types and the boys in DC! What part of highly insider political of BO do you not get?
He now owes his SOUL to the company store!

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

DaDane — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:31:40 GMT

This is sickening to read. I read your blogs daily and hearing the hillary fans hate on obams is just tiresome. 1. Obama doesn't control the media. If the media is in love with him, blame them, not obama. 2. Obama has a track record, he does speak on the issues if you simply bother to listen without prejudice, he has spoke on healthcare, rebuilding our infrastructure, the economy, etc. So saying he doesn't speak on the issues is ridiculous. 3. As much as you clintonites seem to live with your head in the sand it's just plain scary. Do you not know the devestation that NAFTA wreaked, do you know remember the base closings, the downsizing of our military. I do, I was in the military during the clinton years. Do you not understand that no loyal republican will want to be seen backing a clinton? do you not remember how democrats lost the white house, the senate, the house of reps, etc or is your blind support of a woman candidate stronger than all logic and reason. Wake up people, get a grip and for once in your clintonian style lives. Tell the truth.

First thoughts: The Wisconsin test case

DaDane — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:35:22 GMT

Also in response to those who feel that the 9 million supporters of Obama are a cult, what do you call someone who supports hillary? I often hear clintonistas say where's the beef in reference to Obama. Where is hillary's beef. She spent 15 of the 35 years as a corporate lawyer, served 1 year assisting children, not to mention that she failed the D.C. Bar Examine and moved to Arkansas only because she could not practice in any major city. Which by the way was her dream. She only got the job at the Law firm because her husband was the Attorney General in Arkansas. What has hillary done on her own. Please answer that question any clintonista. I seriously would like to know.