New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

American Voter — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:06:20 GMT

What process? Sounds like the Clinton's are preparing to hoodwink the voters - again!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Mikeblackbear — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:06:55 GMT

You all need to Google "The Hillary Movie" and watch all 9 segments. You Tube has them all there. If you watch this documentary and can still vote for her, then you need to check your morals and your head.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

C.K. Steele Fort Lauderdale, FL — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:08:10 GMT

I can already figure out the newest phase of Hillary's "Do anything to get elected" chicanery. She plans on stealing pledged delegates from Obama that were already chosen by the will of the people. Watch and see. These people have no shame!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

laughaday — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:11:11 GMT

If she wins PA, she'll only win it by a shave margin. The rest of the states will be outright won by Obama, whatever the margin. It's over Rendell. Go ahead and deliver your state, watch what happens afterward, and get behind Obama at Convention.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Pat, Boston, MA — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:11:21 GMT

Why doesn't the Clinton campaign just come out and say it -

If you didn't vote for Hillary, then the voting process somewhow didn't count.

Only the states she won counted according to all her spokes people.

Talk about desperation.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

RENEA,PLYMOUTH,MI — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:11:26 GMT

HILLARYS BATTLE CRY.SHAME YOU DEMOCRATICS FOR NOT VOTING FOR ME!SHAME ON YOU DEMOCRATICS!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

fortuna, Houston, TX — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:13:09 GMT

Repeat after me ... Obama is winning, Obama is winning, Obama is winning. Spin it however you want, but if you try to steal this election, you will lose Senator Clinton and you will destroy the Democratic party in the process.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Bruce, Madison, Wis. — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:13:16 GMT

OMG - How many times can the Clinton camp move the goal posts?

Please, someone make this stop. It's getting out of hand and tearing the Democratic Party apart.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Billy — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:13:37 GMT

When will the spin stop? Now she says pledged delegates can change their vote. Hillary, stop dividing the party. You are losing! Think of the party and not yourself for once.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:13:43 GMT

So Chuck. Does that mean that this new "chart" will become a new "dancing graphic" on the various network jumbopolititrons during primary coverage?
Why don't you guys just call her on it? Maybe ask em if they are all wearing Dramamine patches to prevent dizziness caused by spin.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Mister Anderson (The Matrix) — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:13:56 GMT

Any state she loses is either TOO BLACK, TOO SMALL, TOO EDUCATED, or TOO UNDEMOCRATIC (caucus).

And she wants to be President of the United States?

Wow...sounds like Karl Rove is running her campaign and would be her Chief of Staff.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Chad, Salt Lake City Utah — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:14:25 GMT

Clinton can win in caucuses so she discredits them, just like half of the United States. What a strategy to win in November!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

dl — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:15:43 GMT

When Hillary started crying in my great state of NH ...She said "This is not a game" ...sure feels like they are playing a game...AAAAAAhhh ...

enough this is slimy.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

EJ — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:16:34 GMT

I think this sucks. All I can say is if this is stolen from Obama by the superdelegates or whomever, there will be a heavy price to pay. John McCain can pull out the bible and take the oath right now. Enough said!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Barry Gates, Ann Arbor, Michigan — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:16:39 GMT

The Clinton math keeps getting fuzzier and fuzzier. George Bush must be proud of her.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Chris, MI — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:16:40 GMT

This is sickening. These repeated attempts to draw distinctions between types of delegates, to make those won by Clinton somehow count more than those won by Obama are facile and insulting, especially to caucus participants.

As I've said repeatedly, as a Michigan voter who cast a vote in the primary (or "beauty contest" as they love to call it), I will be incensed if the delegates are seated based on those results. I'm fine with a re-vote so long as both candidates are on the ballot, and I don't care who pays for it, but I will only consider myself truly disenfranchised if those tainted results are counted at the convention.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Crissie Brown, Tampa, Florida (but not for long) — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:17:38 GMT

Hillary Clinton has shown that she alone has the authority and power to control the media and thus determine what the American people can see, hear, and think. Given that, she MUST be made Commander in Chief of the United States.

Fine. I'm moving to another country anyway. I'm fed up with this irretrievably corrupt, soon-to-be-monarchy ... the American Empire.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Keith (Wayne, NJ — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:18:16 GMT

Why is it that we hear so many surrogates come out publically for Clinton, whether they be party leaders, former politicians, etc, and we hear nothing from the Obama camp?

It's more of the same spin, and its frustrating. I feel like Obama's camp needs to be more proactive, or at least aggressively react to spin like this rather than sit and let it fester, and hope the media figures out why its wrong.

I support Obama, but I want to hear from some of his supporters who carry a little weight, like Daschle or Kennedy, or Kerry, or someone, and not just the 3am girl (which is funny and ironic, but not productive).

Let's not let the Clinton people steal this election from the change in Washington many of us seek.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

dl — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:18:31 GMT

...and let me say again ...this is what the superdelegates should keep in mind from states who put forth their votes...

"When a waiter screws up my order, or a host at a restaurant seats their friends before the person who is supposed to ... it will be reflected in the tip."

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Sandra, Chicago, IL — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:18:32 GMT

Why after years of caucuses, they are now "undemocratic"? Former President Clinton won some caucuses, were they undemocratic, then? If you have 35 years of experience, then why hasn't that experience taught you how to run an effective campaign (including caucuses)?

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

ETSJ — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:19:14 GMT

I will start by saying that I have never been a big Hillary Clinton fan but the sleazy way they are now trying to steal, and that's what is it "stealing," the nomination is just amazing to me. Does everyone associated with her really think that just because she would be (if she were able to "steal" the nomination that is) the democratic nominee in the general election that all would be forgiven and we would all vote for her? If so, she is very mistaken. McCain may be a bad option but staying home instead of having our votes NOT COUNT once again will be! IF she steals this nomination (by that I mean she goes in with less popular vote and less delegates and the Supers overturn the will of the people) then it will be time to abandon the Democratic party and look for a new party where the will of the people is followed.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Robert — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:23:01 GMT

"I did the quick math, Obama's gotten more delegates via primaries than Clinton (1086 or 1088 depending on the certified California results) to Clinton's (1074 or 1076). So clearly, the caucuses are what's helped put Obama's delegate lead nearly out of reach but even when just measuring primaries, Obama's ahead."

Yes, but Obama would have won Minnesota, Colorado, Washington etc. anyways which, while he would likely have won fewer delegates, would have increased his popular vote totals. Geography isn't neutral with primaries and caucuses here. It will be interesting to see if Clinton wins the popular vote and Obama wins pledged delegates, Obama's team coming up with regression analyses to show that they would have both the most votes and delegates if the caucuses were all primaries.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Live Free or Die, NH — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:23:31 GMT

COME ON, SUPERDLEGATES! MAKE YOUR MOVE. THE TIME IS NOW! THROW YOUR SUPPORT BEHIND ONE CANDIDATE OR THE OTHER, AND WATCH THE VOTERS (in the remaining primaries) RATIFY YOUR DECISION. IF THEY DON'T, then THAT'S WHAT THE CONVENTION IS FOR!!
VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE.
EXERCISE YOUR INDEPENDENT JUDGEMENT.
DO IT NOW!!!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Jackie, Florida — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:24:15 GMT

Chuck - Good work. Finally a courageous political director. Please speak this column live on NBC or MSNBC. I love you.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

New Wave — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:24:32 GMT

The Clintons are beginning to sound like closet Republicans.

Their actions over the past few weeks look like those coming from Republican party aimed at destroying the Democratic party. What gives?

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

CJ — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:24:40 GMT

I wonder why Obama isn't saying he has a lead in primaries? Maybe he isn't showing his hand.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

A.Brocco, Albuquerque,NM — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:31:13 GMT

The Clinton supporters NEED to speak up and tell the leaders of her campaign,"She is doing nothing more than ruining the democratic party!" If I were an active supporter of Hillary, I would be ashamed to admit it. I would be embarrassed and feel violated. If you want a person like Hillary to be our leader, then you are more confused, more misdirected, and more of a unstable than she is. When she decided to run for president, I was an active, dedicated advocate of her efforts. NOT ANY MORE!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Harry, Los Angeles — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:31:14 GMT

Would someone correlate Clinton wins with the strength of the Democratic organization in the states. I'm guessing that the correlation will be strong.

It's not caucuses, demographics, state size, whether they voted Republican, or the like. It's whether there's an organization in place that Bill can use for Hillary.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Maggie, NYC — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:31:30 GMT

What's with the media not calling her on this? Has she managed to get you all scared out of your wits? I'm so very disappointed in seeing HRC's true colors.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Jade7243 Hussein — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:31:34 GMT

If NBC News, and MSNBC fail to report this chicanery ON AIR with as much repetition as the "3 am ad" (which is STILL getting play) then it is certainly fair to say NBC is "in the tank" for Hillary. This attempt at "stealing" pledged delegates must be brought out into the open, and discussed in plain language that voters less savvy than those of us commenting here can understand.

The Fourth Estate is failing in its all-important job.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Mark R., South Montrose, PA — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:31:54 GMT

Let me get this straight. The rules were fine with all parties concerned at the beginning of the process. There would be primaries and caucuses, as there have been for how many prior elections? Florida and Michigan would not count, because they broke the rules. And Hillary was pre-ordained to be the Democratic nominee, so it did not matter, anyway.

Then, a funny thing happened on the way to the coronation. Hillary did not lock everything up on Super Tuesday. And being short-sighted as she was, ran a Super Tuesday Strategy while her opponent was running a 50-State Strategy.

Lo-and-behold, Hillary finds herself behind . . . way behind. Now, "why aren't we counting Florida, I won them?!" Oh, yeah, and "why are we counting all those puny states, they don't really matter?" And, by the way, "caucuses don't count, really!"

Anyway, Barack, "I know your leading NOW, but when it all rings out, will you be my VP?"

What, next Hillary?

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Pam, Carlsbad, California — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:32:22 GMT

I understand the argument that some people may not be able to attend a caucus for any number of reasons. That is an issue the party may want to look at in the future. However, everyone knew the rules before the game began....the caucus system has been around forever....it is not new. So no excuses...you either win or you don't. Furthermore, big states, little states...they are all the United States...heard that before? Well, apparently Senator Clinton, in her partison fashion, sees not all states as equal. Thanks Mr. Todd for your reporting....very rarely these days do we get from the media balanced reporting...you are so right...."the Clinton's set the tone for the media." Come on guys...do not bow to their manipulation.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Chad — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:32:55 GMT

When will Hillary quit thinking she is the one in the lead. She has no way of winning this and still insists she is the one to win. THe most outrageous comment I have heard by her was saying that Barack would be a good Vice President with her as President. The Clintons truly need to wake up and get back to reality. This dream they are in is only hurting the democrats chances in November.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Thurston, Las Vegas — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:33:34 GMT

Ed Rendell Shame on you!!!! I'm from PA but now live in Las Vegas. You are embrassing to the state of PA.for saying what you said about old people can't get out and vote!!! What are you thinking???

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Patrick. Salt Lake City,UT — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:35:19 GMT

Chad. All I want to know is. Will YOU be voting for Obama in the general election if he is the democrats nominee? You know as well as I do that many of the people who voted for Obama in the Utah caucuses were conservative crossovers, who have zero intent of voting for him in the national election. Or will you be like Chuck, and the rest of the MSNBC team and rooting for McCain?

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Mary, Ohio — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:36:04 GMT

QUIT already, Sen Monster! You are destroying the whole PARTY!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

M Wells San Diego — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:36:48 GMT

The above posts appear to be written by a lot of people who are unfamiliar with the political process, including the original reporter. While it has generally been the case that pledged delegates cast the initial primary ballot for the candidate to whom they are pledged, no rule requires them to do so. On any subsequent ballot, delegates are absolutely free to vote for whomever they wish. For those of you who find the caucus process acceptable, think of the Convention as a giant caucus, in which delegates whose candidate does not gain viability (i.e. have enough votes to go over the top) reposition themselves and go with another candidate.
This process is essential, and should be viewed with a little bit of common sense. Without predicting or wishing for any bad news with respect to either candidate, it is not impossible that some information would come out with respect to either that might give the convention delegates pause. Were they not free to change their vote (or even vote for a candidate not currently on the scene), this would totally hobble the Democrats in November.
For some of us, it seems more than reasonable to point out that winning a caucus in Idaho or Utah is simply not the equivalent of winning a primary vote in Ohio. And, if one looks at the delegates won in Wyoming, for instance, each represents significantly fewer voters than any delegate from a primary state for either voter. Of 62,000 registered Democrats in Wyoming, despite what has been called record turnout, fewer than 10,000 showed up at the caucuses.
Those of us who back a particular candidate are hardly likely to be rational about this stuff, but party insiders who want to win in November may pay more attention to these small details.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Therese Squeri, Westlake, Ohio — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:37:36 GMT

I am sick of Hillary--she will stop at nothing to win. I can't believe I ever liked the Clintons. They are truly bad. I wish those old ladies in the assisted living and nursing homes would get informed and see how desperate and power-hungry Hillary really is. By the way, what foreign policy experience does she have? Did she negotiate treaties as first lady?

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Jessica — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:38:12 GMT

Cj, Obama HAS won more primaries. And more caucuses, and more states and the popular vote. Funny how the Clintons and all their fans don't get it. This election is just that and ELECTION. People go out and vote, be it caucus or primary and then whomever has the most delegates wins. It has been this way for a LONG time and the CLintons, as disgusting and pathetic as they may be are NOT going to change this.

Billary and her little team of doushbags can spin like spiders all day long for the next 6 months, but it's not going to matter. She has already lost. Her little plan of begging the supers to give it to her even though she is not who the people want will not work. SORRY HILLARY! It's time to quit because you REALLY look like a SORE LOSER and OH SO SELFISH.

Oh yeah, you Billary supporters may want to stop wasting your money. She WON"T win. But I guess she does want you to pay ehr back for the 5 mill she loaned herself. HA HA!!
OBAMA 08!!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Martin — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:39:33 GMT

How much does Obama pay you "Obama supporters" to overflow all the websites with your hatred for Hillary? You are just stupid school-kids getting paid by Obama!

I'm sick and tired of your self righteous crap!

The only smart choice is

HILLARY 08!!!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

J Radway — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:41:01 GMT

If you can't win by the rules, change them! Hillary, hasn't anyone told you you can't DO that unless you are IN power? You make Putin look like a democrat! Just keep it going Barak. She's cooked.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

CLINT-ROVIAN POLITICS — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:41:45 GMT

THE CLINTONS ARE ASSUMING THAT THE VOTERS ARE STUPID, UNTHINKING, ILLOGICAL MORONS!!!

People - stop for a moment and look at the parallels with Bush-Rove Politics:

1) Hillary has started to use the fear card - she has not said or shown anything that conclusively proves that she has the temperment, the judgment or the RELEVENT experience to "answer that 3am call" NOTHING, yet we are supposed to vote for her because she showed a scary ad and said she was qualified without showing use any substance behind that claim - CLINT-ROVIAN

2) She has taken on the tactic of repeating a lie over and over and over in the hopes that if she does it enough, the voters will believe it is true. Bush called this "catipulting the propaganda"

Example:

Propoganda: Barack (the FRONT runner) should agree to be her running mate. Fact: SHE IS LOSING

Propoganda: Hillary has "35 years of experience" Fact: she has 8 years (I'm being generous) of experience in elected office, and Obama has over 12 years of experience in elected office

Propoganda: Hillary wins the states we need to win the election.
Fact: Hillary wins a lot of big blue states by very small margins (except New York, her home state) that would go for the Democratic nominee anyway...as for Ohio and Pennsylvania - they are not going to vote for free trade McCain -- on the other hand -- LOOK AT OBAMA'S VOTE TOTALS in the red states they are extraordinary, he appeals to young voters, independents, and even some Republicans (who are not voting for Hillary to help their party) He could put more states into play - this job is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES - not the President of the blue states....that is the problem we have NOW - George W. Bush acts like he is the President of the Red states only...do we really want to continue this???

3) Hillary is trying to change all the rules in the middle of the game. NOW she wants to disenfranchise those people who came and caucused.

4) Her political career, like that of George W. Bush and Carl Rove, has been wrought with scandal....I could go on and on and on...

Voters of Mississippi, Pennsylvania and all of the other states yet to vote - Please PROVE HILLARY WRONG!!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

J of Ark — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:41:54 GMT

Caucuses have been suspect from the beginning - and this election cycle should demonstrate they are not a true democratic forum. Why doesn't someone (press??) break down what Obama has paid for each caucus delegate he has pledged to him to date? He has set up very expensive operations in small states to garner these votes, yet it really looks like he has been gaming the system to his advantage with this small state strategy. Isn't this what the superdelagates are to "protect" us from?

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

dr s, alexandria, va — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:42:07 GMT

Super-delegates were instituted to exercise their judgment so that a fringe candidate (think a one-issue movement, for example) would not "hijack" the party and lose an election for not being sufficiently democratic or mainstream, as the case may be. In 2008, we have anything besides such a candidate in Sen. Obama - he is mainstream and broad-based in terms of both platform (issues) and constituency. In this situation, super delegates need to use judgment wisely, where wise isn't just political loyalties.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

NIna H — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:43:00 GMT

She is outrageous. The only way she will win this nomination is by buying off the superdelegates. It would be the second great tragedy of our time behind the Irag war. We will loose (more) faith in democracy and the system. It's in the numbers already that she cannot win. Why is there even a conversation about a Clinton -Obama ticket? that is outrageous. She is as sneaky as they get and the press buys it.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Css, Maine — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:44:22 GMT

I would like to reply to Gov. Ed Rendell's statement that caucuses are undemocratic and do not allow absentee ballots. I voted in a caucus for the first time this year in Maine. I have voted in prior years in primaries in R.I. I found the caucus to be very democratic. I actually felt like my vote counted because I could see the process at work on a small scale. Also, Maine did allow absentee ballots, although I do not know what would happen to votes that went to candidates who did not reach the threshold. I feel that the Clinton campaign is trying to minimize my vote and it will be very difficult for me to vote for her if she does win the nomination.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Frank Wilson, Brooklyn, New York — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:46:03 GMT

Shame on you all Clinton haters! Say what you may, America will NEVER elect a black president, period. Keep on believing that the so-called cross-over repubiCONs (ObamaCONS) will vote for hin in November. If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn so sell to you. General election is won based on electoral college. If Obama is the candidate, count New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Florida, California (with the hispanic votes)among others in McCains column and that means game over for the Democrats. We may hope (and yes we can) all we want as Democrats, the facts remains that there is no way in hell Obama will become the next president, except by wishing and hoping for it but in reality never!
Concerned Black Democrat

P.S. What if white Democrats vote for Clinton 80% of the time as black voters do, will we be screaming racism? Just a food for thought.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Caryn- Saint Louis, MO — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:46:15 GMT

Guess What Hillary,
If you want to be President you should care about all the states in the union. Does anyone outside of these "big states" understand how insulting it is to be told your state does not matter? Every state Barack Obama matters because it is part of the USA!!
She will tear this party apart if she continues this.
Someone has to stop her.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Shtuey — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:46:43 GMT

In Wyoming there are 59,000 registered Democrats. In Saturday's caucus around 6000 or so turned up to vote. Anyone who thinks a result like that is a mandate of a state's support for a candidate is deluded. It doesn't matter which side wins, caucuses are a poor gauge and should be eliminated.

The delegate system also needs to be eliminated. Popular vote should be the determinant as to who gets nominated. Every state would be important, and it would clear the way for a national primary instead of this b.s. we have to put up with.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Polly McDowell — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:46:56 GMT

You can't use the popular vote as a yardstick, because we don't know what the actual popular vote would have been in states that held caucuses. Just another slimy tactic for Billary. And the MSM is just feeding into this. And I agree with one posting: I might have voted for Billary in the general a couple of months ago; but w/ the distorted, slimy, tactics she uses, I would never, never vote for her now. Polly, Mass (59 years old)

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

josh — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:47:02 GMT

primaries are just a popularity contest when it comes to nominating a party leader. It favores the popular candidate and eliminate those with less name recognition all the time.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Dr.Strangedog, MI — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:47:03 GMT

I think this is why Obama's camp remains silent mostly. As time elapses Hillary's camp gets increasingly desperate. As it stands now there's no legitimate way for her to win. By the Clinton camp suggesting enough dastardly tactics to earn a spot on Laff Olympics (how old am I?)

Even the average American voter that frankly has better things to do than reading or researching, can see shadiness in the works. She'll screw her own chances up for him.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

taj, pittsburgh, pennsylvania — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:47:10 GMT

I am have officially converted to the Obama camp! It is unbelievable how the Clinton's are trying to steal the election! I am absolutely disgusted by what they have done. I really believed in her until all this ridiculous spin! Let us think about the long term future of the party. I am disgusted by the Clintons! I hope all the voters finally decide to rally behind a candidate that has been relatively genuine throughout.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Mary Somers Fitchburg Wisconsin — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:47:14 GMT

The Clintons have once again stepped over the line and only lookout for themselves. It is disgusting that they would say John McCain is ready to be president, Hillary is and Obama is not. Why doesn't Hillary just join the Republican party. The only way they ever win is to destroy everyone around them until they are the last ones standing. I will not vote for her if she gets the nomination and I have voted democratic all my life. Obama could never be on a ticket with her as she is everything he is trying to change.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Stacy, Virginia — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:48:01 GMT

The media allows them to keep moving the goal posts because it is great for ratings for this thing to continue. They would love a brokered convention, they live for that type of coverage and will do what ever they can to keep the race going. Even if it means feeding Clinton's delusions.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Robin — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:48:21 GMT

On Meet the Press yesterday, Ed Rendell indicated that there is no such thing as an absentee ballot in a caucus. Well...I live in Maine. We had caucuses and we accepted absentee ballots. Who's right? Does it differ state to state? Also, it is offensive to me to suggest that caucuses are undemocratic. I feel more a part of the democratic process than I have since high school.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Manoj, Richmond, VA — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:48:41 GMT

The Clinton's SPIN is absolutely ludicrous and laughable!!! They are desparate and pathetic. Breaking down the Pledged delegates into "Elected" and "Caucus" delegates suggests that Caucus states are irrelevant and not important. The assumption that only "Hillary States" are important doesn't guarantee that all those states will be in the Democratic column. The Obama campaign played by the rules set forth by the State/National Democratic Parties. Their strategy is consistent with the "50 State" strategy as envisioned by chairman Dean.

Do we really want 4 years of spin, secrecy, no accountability with HRC? Haven't we had enough of that in the last 7 years???

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

taj, pittsburgh, pennsylvania — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:48:42 GMT

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Dr. John W. Cavanaugh, Columbus, OH — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:48:50 GMT

Given the prohibitive costs of any redo of primaries and the inevitable complaints of voiding the original votes, why not employ the "Texas Two Step" approach to the Florida & Michigan problem? The DNC could count 1/2 to 2/3 of the original votes cast and then decide the rest of the delegates via caucuses.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Frank Wilson, Brooklyn, New York — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:49:22 GMT

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

KY Betty — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:49:28 GMT

I have a much easier way to manipulate the system Hillary. Just let me choose. It's never been that way before and it's completely undemocratic (but would likely produce a more intelligent decision). You don't have a problem with that do you? Unless, of course, you're not my choice.
Hint - you're not.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Christine, Sedona AZ — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:49:58 GMT

Hey guys, can you figure the math when it comes to the popular vote in caucus states versus the popular vote in primary states? Wouldn't we have to adjust the relative weight of a voter in a caucus state to give a fair comparison? The raw numbers aren't an accurate record of popularity. Will you articulate this idea for me/us? Thanks!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Terry in Texas — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:50:29 GMT

Maybe the Clinton spin machine is actually a big stir pot. Pour in enough alphabet soup so that on any given day you can float the rationale de jour. AUTOMATIC DELEGATES... CO PRESIDENTS... REDO... DREAM TICKET... 3 AM... MORALE VICTORY... WE LOST

Chuck Todd - Please keep up your intelligent, unbiased analysis.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Don, Dayton, OH — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:50:53 GMT

Bruce wrote: OMG - How many times can the Clinton camp move the goal posts?

As pointed out earlier, the goal posts are ALWAYS at the END of the field. Think about it.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Charlie Baldwin, Shrewsbury, Ma — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:52:03 GMT

Being too lazy to do the math myself. What I'd like to know is if the Democrats had been using the same winner take all approach as the Republicans, where would Obama and Clinton be now in the delegate count.
Would Hillary's winning the big states though fewer states put her in a commanding lead?

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Sierra, SF — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:52:06 GMT

Barack Obama is INEVITABLE

Batack Obama has won the MOST DELEGATES

Hillary Clinton CAN'T CATCH UP

The Super Delegates WILL NOT OVERTURN the WILL OF THE VOTERS

Barack Obama is INEVITABLE

Barack Obama will be your next President

And Hillary WILL NOT be on the Ticket !!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

mel — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:52:07 GMT

Hillary has the lead in the % votes in all primaries (e.g., please look at the real politics). Indeed, if we count Florida and Michigan, her % popular vote exceeds that of Mr. Obama.

I have a problem with caucaus system, as it is not logical. If you look at Texas, for instance, over 2 million people votes, and 4% votes (51-47% with 100% votes calling) and over 100,001 more people votes for Hillary. However, in the same state, the caucus with a few % of participation, gives 12% for Obama. It shows that caucauses DO NOT REPRESENT THE PEOPLE's VOICE!

I think that both candidates have their strengths and weakness, but Hillary is right on this matter.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

ST, Houston, TX — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:52:14 GMT

I urge anyone remotely repulsed by the constant barage of Clinton dirty politics to write Chairman Dean of the Democratic National Committee using this link: http://www.democrats.org/page/petition/chairman

It is time to let Democratic leadership know that the dirty politics that Hillary Clinton has introduced in our nomination process needs to come to an end - and fast. Not only will this kind of Rovian politics hurt our eventual nominee, but it effectively gives Republicans permission to use these same tactics in November against our party's nominee. We are supposed to be the party that wants an end to swift-boating, but how can we ask that of Republicans if we allow Hillary Clinton to shift-boat a fellow Democrat?

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

mel — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:52:14 GMT

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Darcy, Lincoln, NE — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:55:33 GMT

To answer your question, Charlie: If Democrats had the same winner-take-all delegate system as Republicans, HILLARY would already have enough delegates to have won the nomination, PLUS 200 extra! Well, well...isn't Sen. Obama the luck one. The will of the people is evident. Hillary '08'

I always find it interesting (but disgusting) how Obama fans can't seem to name even ONE legislative thing Obama has done since becoming a politician. Hillary supporters do NOT have that problem, as she has a long history of accomplishments in politics. Once again, I encourage research and homework over hysterics.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Elliott, Los Angeles, CA — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:56:18 GMT

Would you guys stop pushing this notion that Obama is deserving of the nomination because he presently leads in delegates? Both Obama and Clinton can not win without the Super-delegates. You talk about Clinton trying to change the rules but in actuality it is the media who is trying to change the rules...and at the same time confuse the public. The process is what it is and Super-delegates are part of that process. There is NOTHING in the rules that states that the Super-delegates MUST follow a certain set of criteria laid out by the media. Both Obama and Clinton will have to make their cases and the Super-delegates will have to vote their conscience. But they certainly should not be pressured by the media elite to follow some out of thin air set of criteria. Let the remaining states vote and Michigan and Florida work out their respective problems...in the end it will be what it is...a very close contest and the Super-delegates will have to decide who will be the strongest candidate against John McCain.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

John Schwarz St. Paul MN — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:56:36 GMT

Now we have Hillary the political philosopher: Democracy isn't democracy, unless I say so. Let’s see: Plato, Aristotle, Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau, Jefferson, John Stuart Mill, John Rawls, Hillary Clinton. Which one doesn’t fit?

Caucuses are closer to direct democracy than primaries are. In direct democracy, not everyone always--or needs to--show up to make it legitimate.

Rendell says older people can't participate in caucuses. What law is that Ed? Police checking ID's at the door?

I favor primaries in some ways for the reasons given by the Clinton camp--though hardly original thinking on their part.

But once again here's Hillary wanting to change the rules.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

no koolaid for me — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:56:45 GMT

"Given the prohibitive costs of any redo of primaries and the inevitable complaints of voiding the original votes, why not employ the "Texas Two Step" approach to the Florida & Michigan problem? The DNC could count 1/2 to 2/3 of the original votes cast and then decide the rest of the delegates via caucuses. "

Dr John Cavanaugh, people have talked about what's fair. I have yet to understand how the TX two-step is fair in allowing two people to vote. Why do you need a caucus after people have voted? Besides, as has been pointed out many times, caucuses disenfranchise those who cannot be present at the small window of time allowed for a caucus. If there's any re-vote, EVERYBODY needs to be able to vote and it should be CLOSED, no independents and no Republicans. Had the Republicans not been allowed to participate and vote to mess with the Democratic election this process might have been done.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

LarryB, San Antonio, Texas — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:56:49 GMT

Caucuses should be outlawed.

The ONLY reason for a caucus over a primary is to exaggerate the vote of the local party activists making each of their votes worth thousands.

Basically it is a "time tax" to replace the now illegal poll tax.

Having to devote 3+ hours STARTING AT ONE AND ONLY ONE TIME ON THE CLOCK successfully eliminates people that actually work hard for a living, parents with children to take care of, the elderly to which it would be overy tiring...at least at a primary you can schedule the 30 minutes to vote around your job vor when your children could be cared for by aother.

Caucuses are totally un-American and contrary to the "one person one vote" concept on which our system of government is supposedly based on.

The only reason caucuses are still a part of the elections is the the caucus goers are the same people that would vote on whether to continue having caucuses or not.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Frank — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:58:03 GMT

Is this serious ? Why not just count all the delegates that are pledged to Clinton. Delegates who are pledged to other candidates will not be valid.

That way the Clinton campaign will get their 'fair' and 'democratic' results. The Black man gets in the back of the bus.

It's funny how Billary wants to change all the rules AFTER losing all those contests. Truth is that she did not prepare in the states after Super Tuesday because she thought she was the defacto nominee anyway. If I remember right, when she won the Nevada causus, she did not mention this to be 'not democratic' did she ? No, it was a 'significant victory' then ....

I hope the media puts this farce on the table and won't let go. Our democracy is being sold out and we need some brave journalists to defend our values!!!!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Priscilla, Washington, DC — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:58:28 GMT

mel - It doesn't matter if Hillary has the lead in all primaries, the rules have been set in place for years to both primaries and caucaus' in various states. Why are you focusing on what if? We are in the here and now, and the rules say that those states that have primaries and those states that have caucaus' both count!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Trey, Indianapolis, IN — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:58:28 GMT

Mel -

You forget that Obama was not on the Ballot in Michigan. So if you include a Soviet style election where Clinton was the only name on the ticket and didn't count then she is in the lead. So if in a redo Obama get 0% of the vote then Hillary would barely be in the lead. This of course won't happen if there is a redo, so he'll probably come out on top. If you add in Florida, she's still getting smoked. At least be factual if you can't be impartial.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

George Taylor, Memphis, TN — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:59:38 GMT

This is 2004 all over again - but worse. I thought our country was built upon the principles of the Constitution? We are a democracy and our government are public servants that serve the people. In addition, we influence other Nations to be democratic and to have elections. Yet, there is an attempt to change (kinder word than corrupt) the rules of the political process that has been around since the birth of our Nation. Why is it that small states don't count? Why is it that the caucus system is all of a sudden undemocratic? Why is it that FL/MI seats are trying to be seated "as-is" when in FL the candidates did not campaign (and its proven that campaigns do have an impact - MN and NH) and MI had only one nominee on the ballot? Why is it that the Democratic Party is once again showing disorganization and chaos by not stepping up to the plate and making this election everything but democratic -- Why is it that I am now leaning toward McCain?

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

VPC, Champaign, Illinois — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:59:41 GMT

The Clintons seem to be masterful at the carrying out a smoke and mirror strategy. As long as the attention is focused on foolery no one has time to ask real questions --like why won't you disclose your financial records or who did you say contributed to Bill's library??

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Joe H. — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:00:13 GMT

You people crack me up! Hillary throws a couple of softballs and you start crying like a bunch of babies. Running for the highest office in the land is hardball and if Obama does not have the stomach for it, what kind of president will he make? If you think this is bad wait until you see what the Republicans have in store. Hillary or Barack will make an awsome president. So relax, let the rest of the states vote and may the best man or woman win. If neither can get to the magic number of delegates then the Super delegates get to decide. Don't blame Hillary for the screwed up system she is just trying to work it to her advantage and Barack should be doing the same. In the future we really need to do away with cacuses and super delegates.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

TJ — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:01:27 GMT

In our precinct in TX, 450 people voted in our caucus. Last election with John Kerry 3 showed up. It was mayhem and many people left without voting in the caucus because of the disorganized caucus team. Everyone at the caucus voted in the primary. In TX, you cannot caucus unless you voted in the primary. 18 of our 20 delegates went to Obama. I am not sure how you can say caucus votes under represent the population in TX. Every candidates supporters have the opportunity to caucus as long as they vote in the primary. If the Clinton supporters chose not to caucus, too bad. I would be very upset if the delegates our caucus chose changed their vote along the way. The majority of our caucus was for Obama. I am an alternate delegate to the county caucus.

I prefer the caucus to a primary if they are done well. It gives a Clinton or Obama supporter the opportunity to educate the opponents followers about their candidates policies and major ideas. The caucus system gives people the opportunity to see a side of the candidate they might not have seen otherwise. There is less effect on caucus by pre-election poll results.

The primary in my opinion is a vote by mass media consumption. 30 second sound bites rule the day. The press influences primary results by publicizing poll data and predicting a winner prior to the primary. The "I want to support winner" people vote based on polling, and their belief in the candidates 30second sound bites.

The Democratic Party should not drink the Clinton koolaid. They are wrong about caucuses. They are wrong about their ability to win in November. There is no greater uniter of the factions of the Republican Party than the Clinton name.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Lester Fallin, Dahlgren VA — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:02:14 GMT

If the Clintons steal the nomination from Obama he should run as an independent - might be political suicide but should keep Billary from winning the White House. Yes, it probably gives McCain the White House for 4 years but that is better than 1 more second of the Clintons running this country - NO WAY OBAMA doesn't get the nomination but they'll do all they can to try and steal it - what a crock.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

JJ, Austin, TX — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:02:21 GMT

Let's fair...I went primary and caucus in TX, it was really not professional for Obama supportors to put O for Obama and C for Clinton in the long list of caucusing snce it is easy to change C to O when you hand wroten done...I am really questions about why 90% caucus went to Obama. I am wondering how many C changed to O...

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Judy Ovilla TX — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:02:49 GMT

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Dee Larsen, Rochester, NY — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:04:06 GMT

This is hilarious!!!!!! (pun intended) After eight years of Whitewater, Rose Law Firm, Foster, Monica, etc. etc. Clintonistas are "shocked! Shocked I say!" over the say or do anything to get the nomination tactics. During one of her senate campaigns here in NY, when she was caught out in an "exageration" (never say lie), her staff member explained that she HAD to say that in order to get elected! And she assured us that she was not using the NY Senate seat to position herself for running for president.

Now, the desperate Ms. Clinton is reaching for anything that will reverse the trends. I expect some scandlous tidbit about Mr. Obama to turn up just before the convention. He won't have time to prove his innocence. He will only be able to spend 8 years "proving his loyaloty" to the party. That's the price of another shot at the nomination.

Keep going folks. McCain looks more presidential every day.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

John Schwarz St. Paul MN — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:04:13 GMT

I think people should take her duplicity and unwillingness to keep her commitments seriously in considering her for the presidency. Isn’t that what we have now with George W. ? A strategy of the “ends justices the means” is HillaryLogicMoralityEthics. She’s trying to tear down every extant political institution that doesn’t fit her needs to get elected president. Imagine what happens when Obama or McCain try to do that. Or Congress.

Will Hillary do this with the EU, NATO, the UN, Russia, and every agreement the US has ever made?

To we the people?

This is scary stuff for a leader-want-to-be to be (trying to) do. Be afraid. Very afraid.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

no koolaid for me — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:04:22 GMT

"the dirty politics that Hillary Clinton has introduced"

ST in Houston, please define what you call "dirty". Pointing out differences isn't dirty. The issue re: superdelegates isn't "dirty" or against the rules. If it is dirty, why is your candidate trying to nab up superdelegates now before the voting is even done? Why has his camp been harassing, threatening black uncommitted superdelegates? Now, for me that harassment of those people is DIRTY. Obama is an ambitious politician. He's been in six campaigns in 12 years. He and his wife both have said they "know how to play Chicago style politics". Don't kid yourself, you candidate is not "pure as driven snow."

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Keith (Wayne, NJ) — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:04:50 GMT

You can argue that there is a fundamental issue with the caucus system, but i think the problem most people have with the way Hillary Clinton's campaign has whined about it is that they knew the rules going into the primary season. They just werent worried when they were the presumptive nominee. Now that she's been exposed for having a faulty base of supporters nationwide, and is no longer the front runner for the nomination, she wants to cry foul.

If she didnt think the caucuses were democratic enough for her, she should have made this stand in December, not when she's lost the majority of them and trying to find excuses on how to make up for the lost delegates now in March.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Emmanuel Winner, Rochester, NY — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:05:07 GMT

"Say what you may, America will NEVER elect a black president, period." - the real message throughout Clinton's campaign, the subtext of her messages - racist through and through - thanks Frank Wilson of Brooklyn for your honesty.
But the majority of people these days are up-to-date and want an honest president who's savvy to what we need NOW. And they will vote Obama - a real American, and our next president, whether righties, Republican or Democrat, like it or not.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Susan Erickson, North Branch, MN — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:05:20 GMT

I think this argument is at root part of the process that the elite in this country have been using over the last thirty years to dumb down the voters in this country rather than value them. This is by philosophy a republican argument not a democratic one, it is disingenous to say that caucuses are undemocratic because it disenfranchises the working class and elderly.

Anyone who has participated in caucuses observes that the elders are respected, listened to, as they provide leadership in deciding the party platform. (lots of senior citizens are in attendance who still actually believe in the democratic process and the power of the vote--not "party bosses"). As part of this a confidential voting box is provided, people can vote and leave but all are invited to participate. Votes designate the proportion of delegates, but community meetings encourage community building, voter motivation and excitement, the sense of belonging in the formation of a movement. These are the root reasons why Obama, with his community organization experience has most benefited from the caucus states. Add to that the philosophy of only campaigning in the blue states that has led to so few democratic wins over the last thirty years and the Clinton campaign adheres to that losing strategy...enough has been said about us states who are too small and unimportant, too red, undemocratic. The voter is getting the message that Obama's campaign instead is one of all the people. Isn't that part of our Declaration? Come on people. The democrats have got to figure this out or we will find another repub in the white house.

Democrats philosophically place equal value on everyone's perspective and voice and debate includes voting on resolutions and reaching consensus agreements. Most caucus states include the right to be released from work in order to attend the caucus, just like the right to leave work to vote, or participate in juries, is supported. (I have been a working mother who gets home exhausted, most of the people who showed up at our precinct caucus were in that similar category, but people not participating has been from the growing hopelessness that participation is meaningless as we have seen systematic disenfranchisement at the voting booth.) Caucuses have been the root of how our government works as participatory.

I am not saying that primaries do not have their advantages in allowing early voting, objectivity and a larger availability and convenience for the voter. But the outcomes are more subject to media spin, the last minute sound bite from unscrupulous candidates, as we saw in Ohio, and people see it as a responsibility but doesn't leave them with as deep a feeling of belonging or part of the party as the caucus do. The caucus system is supposed to build grass root leadership, and lead to mobilization to support chosen candidates in the eventual election campaign. My memory tells me that it used to be that the Democrats endorsed a candidate and then we had a final primary in September, at least in MN. Endorsed in the same way that the unions or other civic groups do. With endorsement comes support and recognition. This suggests the necessity for membership in the democratic party that goes deeper than self labeling on a ballot. As view Lieberman beating the democratically endorsed candidate in his election, running as an independent against your former party is a handicap but always an option.

The US government was based by our founding fathers by debate and consensus, and an educated electorate is one of the basic principals, as in a full participatory democracy. in a "1984" Orwellian conversion of meanings, the Clinton campaign is subtly reversing the definition of participatory...don't trust the humble worker voter that they deceitfully pretend to represent...trust the expert elite who will decide things for us for our own good. Establishing the voter as a passive receiver of government, persuaded to give over our rights. in this it is politics as usual to what we have seen over the last 7 years. it is at root a major philosophical difference over what America really means. I fear for us, because i don't want to continue down the road we have been for the last 7 years, but also the last 30 years. It has been a progression of weaning the voter and the worker from our uppity pride and dumbing down the populace, distracting us like ancient Rome, while our government is gutted for the benefit of the few.

Anyone is welcome at democratic meetings, anyone is welcome and is given equal voice at a caucus, anyone can be elected from their peers to represent them at county, then regional then state caucus and then be chosed to represent their peers at the national caucus. Primaries designate proportional candidate affiliations and then the candidates can choose the delegate (at the recommendations of the local campaigns) who represents them at the national. That might not be "bad" but is it more democratic? I think not.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

David, Bedford, NH — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:06:19 GMT

GOOD JOB! I like the extra anyalsis that was done by your group to differentiate the delegates won in primaries vs. those won in caucuses.

Its okay if the Clintons want to make that differentiation, but I don't think that will make a difference to the delegates because "them's the rules". Clinton spent her February spinning, Obama spent it winning. And that's the reason Obama will be the nominee.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Rufus Gibbons Washington DC — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:03:24 GMT

More delegates does not mean anything if no one has enough to be nominated on the first ballot second and succeeding ballots is where the arm twisting and he deal making comes in this should be the most exciting convention in years. I am looking forward to seeing it.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Judy — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:05:15 GMT

I don't understand how many times Hilary tries to change the rules after it's obvious she is still loosing and try to reinvent the wheel and backpeddle after she consently falls behind in the math.

I apparently clear that she is not playing with a full deck. She will stop at nothing to get what she wants cry, lie, steal and cheat just to get people to vote for her. I am ashamed to be a democrate let alone even to admit I voted for Bill Clinton.

What they both represent is distasteful and they have no morals at all how can anyone in their right mind vote for her. All she had done is hide behind her husband and use his predisency to get credit for something she's never done. She will lie when confronted with issues and dance around the answers.

If Hilary get nominated I will become an indepedent voter in Novemeber!!!!!!

We as american's want change Only Obama has the courage to stand up for it we need a president who can unite this country not tear it apart with lies, deciet and dishonesty.

Yes we Can!!!!!!!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Kathy Corey, Boston, MA — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:05:20 GMT

States with caucuses do not allow our sons and daughters in the active military to participate. Caucuses are undemocratic.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Will, Atlanta, GA — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:05:40 GMT

Why do we keep saying that Obama has won the popular vote?

1,185,359 people voted for Clinton in FL & MI! And although neither candidate campaigned in either state, one of Obama's adds aired(illegally) in FL - Clinton STILL won!

(Obama took HIMSELF off the ballot in MI because he knew that he was already dreadfully behind in the polls - Clinton won MI 60% - 40% gainst "Uncommited" - presumably Obama voters)!

Now, the Preacher of HOPE and Populism wants to disenfranchise 1.8M people - making the 2000 Fl vote debacle look like an immaterial accounting error!

The Clinton camp is offering to pay $15M to re-vote in each state - if Obama matches!

What's the deal Barack? Is HOPE only audacious when it serves it's master - YOU?

Let's HOPE that Obama comes around to democracy: One Person, One Vote! Not one group of caucus leaders representing hundreds, by way of empty proxy! That's not even consensus!

Let's make this right!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

sunny "hussein" — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:05:50 GMT

Thanks to ST, Houston, TX for this web-site information. I am going to repeat it here for those who may have missed it:

"I urge anyone remotely repulsed by the constant barage of Clinton dirty politics to write Chairman Dean of the Democratic National Committee using this link:" http://www.democrats.org/page/petition/chairman

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Mark Rupert — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:07:43 GMT

It's interesting to see Dems admitting that Hillary and/or "The Clintons" in general are really looking sleazy with much of this campaign stuff. As a moderate Republican and no candidate of choice currently, maybe now some of you Dems can see how the other side has viewed the Clintons from the early '90s. The inexcusable pardons in Bill's final days as Prez should have been the final straw I would have thought but they just keep coming back on the scene with more and more arrogance.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Claribel O. New York, NY — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:07:45 GMT

I really don't like the way Hillary is conducting her campaign,it feels almost as though she's trying to trick the public into believing in things which aren't true. I don't get how she can say Obama has no experiance when he served more time in the senate than she did. Being the spouse of the president doesn't make you qualified, the same way being the spouse of a surgeon doesn't mean you can perform surgery. The media & the people need to start calling her out on all her suppossed qualifications instead of letting her say things without backing them up.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Maxine, Douglasville, Georgia — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:08:02 GMT

I think both campaigns, Rendell and the media failed to appreciate the intelligence of the average voter. It will be a sad day in this country should the Clinton's steal the primary, the people will not tolerate it and I fear a strong rebellion like nothing this country has ever experience. Hillary was quoted as saying to the republicans "be careful what you ask for." I think Hill-Bill should also be careful what they ask for. The campaign tactics they have stooped to makes me for the first time in my life ashamed to be an american. I never thought I would see the day when a candidate's credentials would be based on the self induced hardship one endures from an unfaithful husband. That say's alot about her followers doesn't it. Where were they when other females were running for the presidency. Oh, I forgot those women were not former first ladies and their husbands did not go around doing extraordinary things with young girls and cigars under their noses.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

CraigB; Chincoteague, VA. — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:10:37 GMT

We all knew at least one extremely bratty girl when we were young. She cried when she needed attention. She wailed when everything did not go her way. She cried foul when people voted against her and she lost.And she thought that behind-the-curtains deals could get her what she wanted. That girl is an older, but quite unwise, HRC. If the DNC and Obama campaign allow her to steal this nomination, the African Americans should leave the party to demonstrate that such thievery should not exist in America. The fact that she remains in the race is disgusting. Had Obama lost 12 straight primaries...where would he be? Only in America in 2008 can someone still possibly cheat & steal an election.....what irony for a supposed democracy, and a Party by that name.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Steve Lumberton TX — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:04:31 GMT

Obamas lead in the popular vote has been greatly diminished in recent weeks,and if you count the popular vote in florida she is probably slightly ahead, and the popular vote in florida should be counted regardless of the delagates,every american citizens vote should be counted... so get the facts straight before you condem either candidate, what we are watching is a demacratic process that seems to be working just fine. I also would not be suprised to see some of the super delagates cast their vote to Hillary on behalf of the 1.7 million voters that were not heard.in florida.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Murray Powers, Oakland, CA — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:16:22 GMT

I did this same math over the weekend, and wondered if even the Clintons would be slimy enough to try this on. I guess we better get our Hazmat suits on...this is going to get disgusting...

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Mike,Dallas — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:17:45 GMT

I am so sick Billary! She will do or say anything to win. She has mastered the art of spin, dirty tricks, and the kitchen sink strategy. All of this combined with her whining, blame, playing the underdog, victimhood game, makes me come to the to the final conclusion that if she somehow steals this election from the Obama, I will vote for McCain.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Jane Doe, Seattle, Washington — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:20:50 GMT

Boy, a lot of you are really ignorant of the process!

Superdelegates are there to make sure that a candidate who can win against the Republican nominee is selected. They are not bound by an rule to vote for any candidate.

It is not Hillary that is trying to change the rules - it is the Obama supporters who are whining about the superdelegates giving the race to Hillary.

Also, when Hillary was WAAAAY ahead, nobody suggested that Obama should drop out but as soon as he barely creeped past her, Obama supporters started whining for her to drop out of the race.

The problem with the caucus system in many states is that it is not a true reflection of the wishes of the voters. It is just a reflection of which candidate had enough money and people lined up to transport voters to the front of the line and not allow any voters for the other candidate into the line. We all know that is what has happened here.

That is why there are superdelegates - to even up the vote when manipulation is involved such as has been the case at the caucuses so far.

Obama is NOT ahead in delegates in the states that held primaries. Whoever you are doing the counting, I suggest you go back and try again!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

no koolaid for me — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:21:17 GMT

Keep reading Hilary should quit and she keeps "moving the goal post." Well, I like football, and I haven't seen a team walk off the field until the clock ran out! Let this play out. What are you afraid of? Perhaps, more skeletons flying out the closet, Michelle making more anti-American statements, the "unnamed senator" in the Rezko trial papers might be shown to have been participating in something illegal, that Larry Sinclair's lie detector results will become public?

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Alayna in Seattle — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:23:26 GMT

Interesting that caucuses have been fine and dandy for years, but all of a sudden, since the Clinton campaign isn't winning them, they're undemocratic. Also, the formerly 'United' States of America have now been divided into the 'Important States' and the 'Insignificant States'. I guess that Ohio, Texas, California, etc should just secede from the union and form their own, superior country separate from us latte drinking, Prius driving, Birkenstock wearing smaller states. This is truly pathetic, divisive and downright disgusting.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

SN in MN — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:23:40 GMT

Just participated in my first Dem delegate causcus this weekend. What a JOKE!!! It was a circus with a freak show in the center ring. Boiled down to a childish game of moving people around with a clock ticking. The loudest, most uncouth people dominate (one guess who they were for). The older citizens who have been paying dues (more than money) all their lives were pushed aside by chanting kids. The freaks at these things drive normal people away. That's probably how they planned it.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Karen, Old Greenwich, CT — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:24:38 GMT

The only way that Clinton can win is by overturning the popular vote. Bush managed to do that too.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

John Mehan, San Francisco, CA — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:28:41 GMT

The super delegates tend to be in the Clintons' generation, and thus tend to support Hillary. If they cast their votes for her in spite of the Obama lead (as Hillary is urging them to do) what a travesty that wold be!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Sheath, Bremerton, WA — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:29:29 GMT

Why do you Obama supporters say Hillary is STEALING anything if people are voting for you? I can only assume that you dropped out of school in about the 5th grade.

What about Obama cheating by providing "rewards" to voters to come early, get to the front of the line, and keep Hillary supporters from getting into the caucuses? What about the number of people who say they were threatened by the Obama camp when they were in line at the caucuses? If it were all primaries he would never have gotten as far as he has. He just has enough (crooked) money behind him to manipulate the caucuses.

He is the dirty politician, not Hillary and you should all be ashamed of yourselves!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Tim, Peoria, IL — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:29:32 GMT

AP - It was reported today that Senator Gravel of Alaska contacted the Clinton camp to see if Hillary would be interested in serving as his Vice President as part of his "AK DREAM Ticket".

Barak & Michelle Obama were asked to serve wine & cheese at the anouncement reception!

Yes America - it is getting That RIDICULOUS!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

no koolaid for me, either!!! — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:38:23 GMT

Why do Obama whiners want Hillary to just drop out when they keep saying that Obama is winning? If they are so sure he is winning then they should not be bothered by her staying on in the race!

I say, "DON'T GIVE UP, HILLARY!" Those of us with brains can still see through Obama's lies and half-truths!

Keep on fighting until the end. America needs you!

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Rufus Gibbons Washington DC — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:40:34 GMT

Obama supporters are showing their total ignorance of how the system works these are not things that were made up just to get Obama these rules have been in place for the 60 years I have been voting. We have always had convention fights when no candidate had the number of delegates to win on the first ballot. Once the delegates vote once for their man the restraints are lifted otherwise we could deadlock and McCain could run un-opposed.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Elliott, Los Angeles, CA — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:47:20 GMT

Thank you Jane Doe: These poeple just don't get it...because they don't want to get it. Hopefully the Super-delegates will do what is right and not what the Obama followers and MSM are telling to do.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Darcy, Lincoln, NE — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:51:46 GMT

Fed up with the Obama supporters whining, whining, whining constantly. Oh, she's trying to steal the election, the Clintons arrogance, trying to change the rules, she should quit because she can't win (you wish). Open your minds, educate yourselves, investigate and research, and learn what none of you seem to understand: You can't win with Obama! He is not what he appears to be. Check the records.

Anyway, I've better things to do than try to educate your dumb asses.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Robyn, Miami, FL — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:01:04 GMT

I smell a rat!

I bet the Clinton campaign wish they would have done this much strategy and analysis...ON HER CAMPAIGN-- instead of figuring out the best way to STEAL IT!!!

TURN THE PAGE AMERICA...this is just the primaries and once again, the Clintons are bringing deceit, divisiveness, secrets and scandals!!

What about our soldier? What about the economy?

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Dan, Michigan — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:50:13 GMT

Mr. Todd,

Another Obama surrogate is disguise at MSNBC. Did your pledged 'primary' delegate count include Michigan and Florida. Of course not! Let's give the people of Michigan and Florida a voice in this election year.

I've said it before and maybe MSNBC will post my comment this time. Why did Obama take his name off the Michigan ballot? No one forced him to take his name off the ballot. Obama talks about having better judment than Sen. Clinton. Well, I believe that shows 'poor judgment' on Obama's part.

Also, why is it that Obama claims better judgment on one issue. Where was his better judgment on all those 'present' votes in the Illinois Legislature?

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Phil, Gainesville, FL — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:53:36 GMT

I'm not too sure it's reasonable to say that the caucuses are what benefit Obama. The states with caucuses are pretty well centered on one area. But Obama did just as well in Utah, also in that area, which is a primary. And he still won Washington when it was a primary. The only state caucus outside the midwest and west was Maine, which Obama won, but he did well in New Hampshire and Virginia, so that's not a shocker either.

The best evidence for the "caucuses help Obama" line came March 4th with the Texas results. But even that's weird given the two-step vote that made it not a straight caucus.

The best you can do, it seems to me, is that small states tend to favor caucuses and tend to favor Obama.

New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

cj, mass — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:53:44 GMT

This is a prime example of what the clinton/'s bring to the table for the presidency. Do you really trust them? Do you really really believe their ethical and moral conduct thus far is appropriate? They cause so much negativity. I was enjoying this democratic race and now thanks to the clinton's I am disguisted. Furthermore, I am disguisted that a WOMAN no less, is behaving in this manner.

How can any hillary supporters really not see how wrong she's been of late. She'll win at any cost. The nation does not need anymore years of the clintons - controversy, hidding documents, special interests, unethical practices, insulting everyone, threating to sue, changing rules to benefit them, splitting words to benefit them, on and on and on. And why is this good for america?

I am glad to read and hear the the clinton tatic's are finally rising to the occasion and I hope once again the media will continue to highlight this. This is one thing Americans are fed up with and the media NEEDS to empahisize this and not run from it. This is one of the biggest differences to me: CHARACTER!!!!!! How can you not see she's a bully. She's talking out of both sides of her mouth but the clinton's weren't smart enough to realize the consequences of those words (special thanks to tim - meet the press) HILLARY, Someday we may see an Clinton Obama ticket (dah). It's coming back to bite her now. I thank all of the integellient people - for or against hillary, who are able to see through all of her bull and call her on it.

All states are equally important to their voters. Obama is CORRECT!!!!!!!!!! Win or lose in a state - they are all important to him and to the voters and I believe they are all important to the DNC.

To the Clintons hear this - SHAME ON YOU HILLARY CLINTON!!! You have sunk too low of the past few weeks. The only thing you are winning now is votes for the hillary haters club. You've earned this one all by yourself (well maybe some help by your husband).

Stop pumping yourself up hillary. Stop putting your personal goals ahead of the democratic party, ahead of ethics and morals and most importantly ahead of the america voters. We want a candidate who is respectful of all americans, a candidate who has an ethical and moral standing and will represent all AMERICANs, not just the ones you call important. Your true colors are showing now.

I hope the DNC sees what us americans see. Obama has fought hard against a name brand and he has risen above all of this in my eyes. He's level headed and not erratic, he doesn't stoop to her tatics and is respectful to all. To some people he may not have all that they wish in a president but I know that he has JUDGEMENT, he's a candidate that just doesn't listen to you, but he HEARS you instead. I commend Obama for his character and for fighting against the billary's. He's taken on quite a challenge and he's winning because of his judgement, because he is ethical and respectful to all. He's the real fighter in my eyes. He seeks to unite all and she seeks to divide. He follows the rules, she seeks to change them in her favor. SHAME ON YOU HILLARY FOR SAYING YOU WON 2 STATES that didn't count. Just shows your real character once again. Give the percepion that you won when in reality, you were the winner of nothing. Of course you'll brag about winning, that's your character.

As a woman, I am disguised with hillary as a woman presidential candidate. I think we need a woman candidate who has far more to ofter than she does and when the next woman runs for president, it will be refreshing to know that she and she only will be running it and be credited for what SHE has accomplished. Not having a husband as a former president means she will clearly be getting all the credit for or against herself. That means more to me than always wondering if it is mr or mrs clinton who's running the show.

If she wins, think about this. Al Gore stated it was tough as VP under the clintons. He should have only had one clinton as a boss. Think about if she wins, our VP might not be as effective as he/she should be with the clintons in charge. Food for thought.

I hope america realizes what the clintons offer us and wake up and give obama credit for what he has accomplished thus far - he's winning the presidential campaign and no bullying should change that. The DNC should send the clinton campaign a good WARNING - no more of this!!!!!!!!! SHAME ON YOU HILLARY.

P.S.

I will not vote for hillary if she is the nominee. I will convert over to the republicans. I don't want 4 more years of what the clintons have offered in the past and in her campaign. The country needs to focus on real issues and not what the clinton's offer - lies, deceite, negativity, above the law, "impeachment" and on and on and on. Wow, do they not have any dignity? - lol.